{"error":false,"id":["158763"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":158763,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158763","日期":"2025-01-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-19-22","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":22,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-01-08T11:22:13+08:00","結束時間":"2025-01-08T11:31:59+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:46","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/740a0dd0b202cb582e18500c4d7d7c94a56fd3a12bc29fbbeefebb33f5927238b919a22b82dabb035ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"11:22:13 - 11:31:59","會議時間":"2025-01-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣糖業股份有限公司、台灣中油股份有限公司。(詢答)\n【1月8日及9日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6.578468750000001,"end":14.661593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.970343750000001,"end":10.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.62409375,"end":12.704093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.58159375,"end":14.324093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23.48721875,"end":23.976593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25.140968750000003,"end":44.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":44.985968750000005,"end":66.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":67.09221875,"end":76.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":77.20034375,"end":84.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":86.07659375,"end":124.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":125.22659375,"end":130.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":130.79534375,"end":137.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":138.25409375,"end":151.68659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":152.04096875000002,"end":152.90159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":153.54284375,"end":157.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.37346875,"end":158.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":158.94284375,"end":161.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":162.58784375000002,"end":169.33784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.43909375,"end":171.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.22346875000002,"end":174.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.81784375,"end":182.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":183.19221875000002,"end":194.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":194.86971875,"end":195.56159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":195.78096875,"end":199.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.45971875,"end":200.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.72971875000002,"end":199.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.74659375000002,"end":199.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":201.28221875000003,"end":206.95221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":207.49221875,"end":221.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.22909375,"end":217.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":221.97096875000003,"end":223.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":223.92846875,"end":225.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":225.81846875000002,"end":266.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":266.74034375,"end":266.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":266.97659375,"end":267.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.02721875000003,"end":267.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":267.60096875,"end":267.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.65159375,"end":267.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":267.80346875000004,"end":267.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.85409375,"end":267.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":267.90471875000003,"end":267.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":268.41096875,"end":276.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.08909375,"end":276.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":276.20721875000004,"end":278.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":278.97471875,"end":285.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":285.91034375000004,"end":307.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.77596875,"end":312.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.74159375,"end":314.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.59784375000004,"end":315.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.01534375,"end":321.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.27596875,"end":323.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":323.96346875,"end":370.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":370.79159375,"end":389.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":389.67471875,"end":396.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":396.96471875000003,"end":399.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":399.02346875,"end":399.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":399.59721875,"end":399.61409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":399.61409375000005,"end":399.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.55034375,"end":403.37721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.78221875,"end":407.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.45659375,"end":418.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.39596875,"end":419.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.84721875,"end":423.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":420.89346875,"end":453.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":453.49596875000003,"end":455.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":455.87534375,"end":456.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":456.61784375,"end":478.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":478.40346875000006,"end":478.92659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":479.36534375,"end":480.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":481.20471875000004,"end":481.87971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":482.11596875000004,"end":484.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":485.18721875000006,"end":486.84096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":487.34721875,"end":491.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":491.34659375,"end":499.56471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":501.75846875,"end":503.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":502.63596875,"end":503.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.07034375,"end":505.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":505.06596875,"end":505.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.26846875,"end":505.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.63971875000004,"end":506.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":506.97284375000004,"end":507.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":507.02346875,"end":507.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":508.49159375000005,"end":513.6553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.97596875,"end":524.2022187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.6072187500001,"end":527.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.18471875,"end":529.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.9734687499999,"end":531.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":531.86346875,"end":531.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":532.0490937500001,"end":581.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":581.45909375,"end":581.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.49284375,"end":582.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":581.5434687500001,"end":581.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":582.5053437500001,"end":583.14659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.323,"end":11.43,"text":"鄭政前委員質詢謝主席我想先請一下郭部長還有我們方董事長 鍾游還有台湯的吳董事長"},{"start":23.533,"end":41.092,"text":"委員好謝主席因為今天是針對經濟部的所屬單位的非營業基金還有中油跟台糖那個預算那剛剛就是聽到部長其實在回應楊聰英委員在有關於中鋼他們工會上來那個抗爭的時候"},{"start":42.314,"end":56.226,"text":"剛剛部長特別提到一個覺得說他們那個星達海基他們這邊虧損因為學習曲線不足我覺得這個點我聽到其實某個部分我是覺得正面的就是說坦白說公務體系也必須要有很大的一個學習的部分"},{"start":56.906,"end":83.26,"text":"可是在這邊的時候我就想到另外一個問題也是最近經濟部內部碰到就是這九個月來有三個次長離職的問題那我相信很多人也都關心整個經濟部的人事的穩定那因為我出了這部分在請部長回應之前的時候因為我也聽到另外的狀態就是說在經濟部當中據說有所謂的那個薯條三兄弟就是部長知道什麼叫薯條三兄弟嗎"},{"start":86.101,"end":103.282,"text":"不知道就是有三個次長跟一級主管他經常站在你的辦公室裡面然後被你訓斥被你罵這樣子所以他們壓力很大我不知道是不是有這樣的一個狀態不過就是說基本上就是說有三個單位那他們的署長就是"},{"start":103.942,"end":124.367,"text":"經常還有次長經常就是安苡人罵那某個部分是你要求多啦因為你剛剛在回應那個學習曲線不足的時候我某個部分覺得你進來帶這樣子的一個大的機構某個部分是正面的因為大的機構確實需要有一些不同的刺激那對於次長的那個異動情況這麼頻繁部長你有沒有什麼說明報告委員謝謝你給我這個機會說明我三個次長"},{"start":131.165,"end":152.357,"text":"第一個次長是我520上任他6月10號離職他那個是借退所以他沒有520隨著舊的部會離開因為他是公務員他是長次所以他等到他退休的時候因為我留任他他講說他有人生的規劃所以他離開了"},{"start":153.578,"end":174.223,"text":"那今年12月30日離開的陳正琦次長他也是520的時候要一起離開但是基於我們對國外的這些國安的問題有些條約是要進行我請他留下來幫忙一直到12月31日"},{"start":175.908,"end":199.611,"text":"所以這個是我們之間的默契那麼這個也是我們請這個行政院同意的讓他留半年這樣子這是這兩位第三位的次長是我的這個因為這個長賜換了所以我把我們的這個連次長升起來讓他當次長"},{"start":201.363,"end":223.12,"text":"那麼在工作上面他當然是沒有問題非常優秀所以我們會讓他當市長那在我們這個半年的過程裡面他也遭受到非常多這個來自於大院的這個壓力我們很多的委員都要求我們要所以立法院給的壓力比你給他的壓力更大你意思是這樣子嗎"},{"start":224.44,"end":243.931,"text":"我想應該是這樣子OK那我想說部長這樣回應的時候呢我覺得我也尊重不過我要特別講到一個點就是說因為你畢竟從企業進來帶進一些企業的一個風格那我們也看過過去您在這個過去當中的時候也出過好幾次的包包或失言不斷的在跟那個委員"},{"start":244.411,"end":251.657,"text":"對於整個公務體系當中我們希望有改變有更好的一個績效因為你剛剛提到另外一個點就是說你覺得台灣智慧電能公司如果中鋼不投資他們可以隨時撤掉你的意思是這樣子嗎?"},{"start":268.451,"end":284.567,"text":"因為他是這個雖然是這個發起者啦但是我們會有這個募資第二次募資的部分第二次募資的時候他就可以退所以你這個部分會很清楚的部分給中鋼他們如果真的就評估覺得不適合投資是可以不要投的OK好謝謝部長"},{"start":286.389,"end":306.25,"text":"接下來我想問一下中油的部分因為我們看到中油的部分有投資海勝離岸豐電我想了解一下海勝離岸豐電的時候因為他要投資40億現金然後要融資大概86億元我想問一下當時為什麼中油要去投資海勝當時決策過程是怎麼樣"},{"start":308.983,"end":334.048,"text":"報告委員覺得這個過程很單純就是對公司來講我們也算是排碳大戶所以我們也需要綠電同時這個海勝風場這個轉投資公司呢在我們評估下來它是有效益的所以你們覺得是有獲利然後對於中油之後的那個排碳的一個減排的部分是有幫助因為我剛才查了一下中油在過去轉投資當中其實不多"},{"start":334.808,"end":362.114,"text":"不多而且金額也都不多包括台灣證交所只有0.79億台船只有7.94億然後另外就是海外就是投資開發公司只有0.52億金額都不大那投資海勝很大那這個部分的時候呢我們就希望說針對這個部分不要變成都是去幫政策買單我們希望是真的對企業有幫助所以剛剛顧部長特別提到說學習曲線不足如果說他們覺得評估"},{"start":363.214,"end":380.439,"text":"不是可以不要投我希望企業基本上就能夠更遵照一個商業的一個機制去辦理好不好好 那我接下來要問一個部分就是因為石油基金在114年度當中有編列一個電動機車的一個產業環境價值補助的部分那麼針對這個部分有6.78億元那這補助主要在針對電動機車的補助那我想請問一下部長這邊"},{"start":389.722,"end":398.796,"text":"目前台灣的電動機車的市占率大概多少然後我們目前的一個市售比大概多少我可不可以請我們產發署可以"},{"start":402.714,"end":412.383,"text":"報告委員目前電動機車的保全台電動全台機車的保有量有1465萬輛電動車在截至去年11月有"},{"start":422.051,"end":445.959,"text":"因為時間有限你們針對這部分我針對這部分我要特別問的是因為Gogoro的部分因為一直被檢舉它其實國產化不足可是又拿到了我們很多的一個經濟部推動電動機車產業補助這個部分國產化的一個補助那我知道這部分目前還在糾紛當中因為包括Gogoro VIVA這個車款還有JGO這車款的時候都被檢舉"},{"start":447.159,"end":469.752,"text":"它國產化的部分有問題那針對這部分部長這邊有沒有特別的說明否則的話是 報告委員我們依法行事OK針對這個部分因為我覺得看到目前的一個產發署的一個回應的時候我覺得感覺不夠清楚希望事後再給本席針對這個問題更清楚的一個報告檢討的一個報告好不好是的好"},{"start":472.173,"end":498.249,"text":"好那我最後問台糖這個部分因為台糖的一個金融事業部我問一下就是我們預計就是去年的時候本來可以由負轉正結果還是負的那今年的預算當中的時候呢還比去年在持續的往上增加覺得會越來越好可不可以請台糖董事長這邊做一個簡單的一個說明"},{"start":501.809,"end":527.347,"text":"金融事業這個部分可以可以委員報告謝謝是跟委員報告我們金融事業部蝴蝶蘭的部分美國的虧損是最大那為什麼美國虧損最大主要是受到兩個大的因素影響第一個因素就是那個疫情期間造成的影響那第二個是俄烏戰爭之後整個航運的混亂還有這個貨櫃"},{"start":532.53,"end":552.719,"text":"謝謝你回應不過這個部分的時候我想特別問的是金融事業部就是去年本來預計要由副轉正沒有達標然後明年的預算的時候還持續看好那我希望你們之後來跟本席做一個很清楚的說明有關於金融事業部在美國加州的分公司的狀態不斷的虧損"},{"start":555.34,"end":582.568,"text":"目前虧損的時候呢已經欠了3億8千多萬的虧損然後還欠母公司也是3億多元那我希望針對這個部分因為審計部有要求就是針對美國公司是不是要有一個退場的機制要做一個清楚的判斷那我們請台堂之後在本辦公室一個很清楚的說明針對金融事業這部分的一個發展是 沒問題好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}