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審查委員賴士葆等22人及委員傅崐萁等20人分別擬具地方稅法通則第4條條文修正草案等2案。請委員說明提案要指後,再請財政部回應。有沒有人要說明要指?請賴士葆賴委員3分鐘,謝謝。"},{"start":1947.934,"end":1965.33,"text":"謝謝主席及各位先進那麼本席提的今天的稅法通則地方稅法通則第四條的修正草案就是我們現在看這個地方稅是分兩大類一個是地方訂的"},{"start":1966.638,"end":1980.25,"text":"一個是中央定的可是呢在我們現在這個現行的第四條裡面是不管地方定的或者中央定的就是最多就30%"},{"start":1981.775,"end":1998.333,"text":"最多就30%裡面你可以去增加那這個地方稅法通則是很早以前就定了這個讓地方的首長、地方的議會可以自行來決定他們要增加哪一些稅所以"},{"start":2002.699,"end":2021.057,"text":"全部30%裡面全部都是由中央政府來決定的話我覺得這個對地方政府也不夠尊重所以我的提案呢就是講的就是讓中央政府的手不要伸到地方政府"},{"start":2021.698,"end":2044.25,"text":"主要政府你訂了地方稅你訂之外地方政府他一定是行政首長提出來或者議員提出來但是一定經過地方議會的同意才有成立這個才是所謂的地方稅而30%這個限制就不要涵蓋這一部分了"},{"start":2045.551,"end":2064.387,"text":"簡單講就是中央定的地方稅他最多只能調成30%但是地方政府經過地方議會自己通過的一個地方稅法那就不要受這個30%的限制就是由地方議會來負權責地方政府來負權責這樣子的話才能夠充分的來尊重"},{"start":2068.55,"end":2068.951,"text":"接著請財政部李政事清華回應"},{"start":2087.27,"end":2112.728,"text":"主席、各位委員、先進、大家好。今天呢,大院財政委員會及內政委員會聯席審查我們大院賴委員、世保以及副會議委員等人分別擬具《地方稅法通則第四條條文修正草案》兩個案子。那財政委員會傳要列席致感榮幸。警政委員提案說明如下,敬請指教。為了提高地方財政自主性,91年呢,我們制定地方稅法通則的時候就參考了各國地方稅立法的方式,"},{"start":2113.408,"end":2140.649,"text":"維持我國地方稅中央立法方式並賦予地方自主的彈性空間以符合地方制度法的規定所以在這個通則的第3條明定直轄市政府、縣市政府以及商鎮施工所可以開徵特別稅客、臨時稅客或者附加稅客等等薪稅並且分別在通則的第4條及第5條賦予直轄市政府及縣市政府除了印花稅、土地增值稅之外可以在地方稅源規定的稅率上限"},{"start":2141.109,"end":2167.452,"text":"在30%的範圍內來調高它的徵收率或徵收額另外除了關稅、貨物稅及加值型營業稅外在現有的國稅當中也可以在原規定的稅率的30%的範圍內附加徵收的權限依據上開的規定第三條的規定主要就是在規定地方政府制定地方稅自治條例提經議會完成立法程序開徵的特別稅客、臨時稅客以及附加稅客"},{"start":2168.212,"end":2196.188,"text":"這些都是地方自治立法權的範圍有關稅率的訂定也是地方的權責至於第四條第五條則是就中央立法的地方稅還有國稅所為的規範複以地方政府在一定的範圍內可以調整它的徵收率或者附加徵收有關賴委員等人提案是將第四條第一項的地方稅的範圍定名為中央立法的地方稅那複委員等人的提案是將同條項地方稅的範圍定名為中央立法所"},{"start":2196.408,"end":2196.628,"text":"謝謝理事長"},{"start":2228.045,"end":2246.113,"text":"每位委員發言6加2,列席委員4分鐘,即日上午10點截止發言登記。本次會議委員若有相關修正動議,請禁送主席臺收件而立於後續審查程序。請第一位發言林德福林委員質詢。"},{"start":2259.87,"end":2261.533,"text":"謝謝主席是不是請財政部理事長"},{"start":2268.84,"end":2294.583,"text":"市長早市長我請教因為竹記種族的家庭財務分配統計指出家庭財務的貧富差距從民國80年的16.8倍到110年已擴增到66.9倍那市長30年貧富差距擴大如果按照竹記長所說的未解決貧富差距讓政府"},{"start":2295.444,"end":2314.002,"text":"提升企業加薪那意願改善所得分配上政府的責任大那請問稅制改革推動這麼多年為什麼貧富差距不但沒有縮小的跡象反而變得越來越大這到底是稅改不利還是"},{"start":2315.023,"end":2337.032,"text":"根本就是沒有辦法從根本上去縮小貧富的差距。你的看法呢?是報告委員其實在這個改善我們這個人民的所得分配的這個效果上面呢我們財政部這幾年也是非常的努力在稅制上面做了非常多優化稅制的措施包含了我們在106年也就是107年時的實施所得稅制優化方案"},{"start":2338.652,"end":2359.238,"text":"這個優化方案將我們這個個人申報綜合索稅的4項扣除了大幅度的調高那另外我們也在108年有增訂了這個長期照顧特別扣除那在去年度也在財委會各位的這個支持之下我們修正了我們的幼兒學錢特別扣除還有就是租金"},{"start":2360.058,"end":2388.38,"text":"之初的扣除而把他從列舉扣除而移轉到改定為這個特別扣除而其實這幾項的修法都是站在這個改善民眾這個基本生活的立場上面希望能夠對於這些中低所得者或者是說有家庭能夠改善他們的所得狀況事實上是剛剛好相反那你認為會不會是因為資本主義下貧富差距變大根本就是不可逆就是一定會這樣子"},{"start":2390.168,"end":2417.429,"text":"你的認為呢?但是委員我們只能講說我們在稅制在財政部主管的稅制方面我們還是持續在做相關的調整但是喔 繼續一直擴大這是事實啊擺在眼前啊市長30年來貧富差距擴大的感受在座各位如果30年前出生這個社會甚至還是念大學的本席相信大多數的人都非常非常的有感不論是當時社會新鮮人的薪資"},{"start":2418.49,"end":2445.986,"text":"又或者是大學時代的房租、學位相信30年來的物價變化都會讓大家心有戚戚焉致長,面對現在大多數民眾的所得多半只有夠生活必要的開銷呼喚房租、水電以及倉位後所剩無幾財政部幫得了這些人什麼忙?你認為有沒有辦法?"},{"start":2447.028,"end":2470.934,"text":"我們就是持續做稅制的改善,希望能夠透過稅制的改革,能夠增加一些政府的收入,然後利用這些收入給予這些相關的像行政院組織總處或者是說相關的部會藉由這個移轉性的支出來改善我們這些有必須需要輔助的人民的生活。但是事實上他是剛好"},{"start":2472.284,"end":2492.123,"text":"倒著走啊,它越擴越大,貧富差距啊那你認為是不是這些所剩無幾的這些人啊是不是借錢來投資零股啊期待賺的機會財還是借錢買台股操作當沖可以當沖降稅的誘因來花點風險財又或者是這個"},{"start":2498.465,"end":2519.92,"text":"小小的去買一些公益彩券抱著大概有一天能夠中大獎這樣的一個美夢市長除了這些有如白日夢的幻想財政部有沒有想過在稅制上能夠更務實去解決實際上貧富差距的辦法到底是什麼你認為有沒有辦法改善"},{"start":2521.061,"end":2536.501,"text":"所以其實委員這個部分當然我們不希望就是民眾因為這個為了投機獲利然後去股市然後做什麼幫充交易這個其實對他們來講也許反而會造成更大的損失所以我們現在是希望就是說"},{"start":2537.302,"end":2556.172,"text":"我們也配合經濟部來實施所謂的鼓勵企業加薪減稅就是中小企業加薪減稅希望讓企業能夠將他的獲利能夠分享或者是回饋給他的員工然後來增加員工的薪資讓他的所得能力增加那這樣子可能是比較正確的做法"},{"start":2557.619,"end":2584.487,"text":"市長謝謝上個禮拜朱哲銘、朱祖記長說財富最低的20%家庭金融負債30年來增加16倍可能是因為財富槓桿操作太嚴重導致負債顯著的增加因謹慎理財那本席認同這個理財要謹慎這樣的一個必要性只是把財富最低的20%家庭"},{"start":2586.187,"end":2602.354,"text":"的原因歸咎於理財謹慎程度不夠本席認為恐怕政府難救其辭因為30年來政府為了和國際接軌金融政策的開放性、安全性陸續讓專業金融和"},{"start":2606.317,"end":2630.383,"text":"知識缺乏的民眾有了更多掉入陷阱的機會例如早期推銷信用卡、現金卡結果成就了許多卡奴這十多年前的新型金融商品的連動債造就了許多金融消費的苦主近年來更是為了推動科技金融致激"},{"start":2632.684,"end":2658.997,"text":"在無法有效嚇阻這些金融詐騙的環境下讓民眾真的講人心惶惶那我請問次長從剛剛提到的這些金融政策這個歷程去看貧富差距的形成你認為是有錢人轉變為貧窮人容易還是一個由壽星民眾轉變成貧窮人比較有可能您的看法呢"},{"start":2661.125,"end":2677.45,"text":"當然就是看這個各個民眾他在這個理財的時候他所做的一些安排就是他對他所投資理財的工具是不是真正有充分的認識那我們現在其實財政部能夠配合的措施就是我們希望能夠透過一些就是加強的宣導還有加強對這個金融商品的讓民眾認識金融商品"},{"start":2682.652,"end":2688.914,"text":"例如透過配合金管會訂定的什麼金融機構洗錢防治辦法還有就是異常帳戶的管理我們來保護我們這些銀行民眾在銀行的金融機構的資產希望他們不會因為這樣做了錯誤的判斷或者是說被不小心被詐騙然後造成他們的損失"},{"start":2705.919,"end":2715.511,"text":"你認為有錢能和一般壽星的民眾獲取金錢所承受的風險到底是誰比較大?你的看法?市長,因為我認為我感受很深就是在11月還沒有"},{"start":2724.002,"end":2724.142,"text":"議員賴士葆"},{"start":2744.474,"end":2764.289,"text":"那你要是新北市甚至於你現在達到90、180、80幾乎啊比比皆是啦阿你說現在年輕人要買一個房子談何容易阿對不對要幾千萬的房子他要努力多少年而且齁他一個月才領到多少薪水所以說我認為齁這個"},{"start":2766.874,"end":2786.076,"text":"很多的問題啦,因為我時間到了,不然的話講實在話,很多要存第一桶金都難上加難那你說要他生活又要租房子,那這個真的是我認為很多稅改的部分真的要好好的探討"},{"start":2786.917,"end":2786.937,"text":"市長"},{"start":2812.605,"end":2835.792,"text":"我最後提一個因為憲法第7條落實於稅法上就是租稅平等原則區分水平平等與垂直平等兩種水平平等是指同樣經濟幾戶人力者應互擔相同的稅捐垂直平等則有不同之戶人力者應互擔不同的稅捐戶人應多繳稅窮人應該要少繳稅"},{"start":2838.853,"end":2839.914,"text":"主席麻煩請財政部理事長請理事長"},{"start":2869.785,"end":2891.438,"text":"市長早現在5月是報稅季那今年有不少的新制度實施啦包括成年的年紀現在18歲從20歲下降再來另外一個就比較大家比較陌生的就是CFC受控外國企業受我們台灣人控制的外國企業這個繳稅的問題那"},{"start":2895.331,"end":2912.329,"text":"你這個CFC受供外國企業的這個繳稅啊財政部在這個繳稅之前因為這已經預告今年開始要課了嘛從去年1月1號14 今年要課之前有沒有宣導啊這些這些CFC的這個UO9知不知道"},{"start":2912.87,"end":2931.636,"text":"今年他們得要這樣子繳稅呢?有,其實我們從那個報競行政院合定在前年報競行政院合定說從112年度開始就要實施這個受控企業外國公司法開始那個所得稅即開始呢我們就包含我們複稅署還有各地去國稅局就一直持續地在做宣導"},{"start":2932.396,"end":2945.104,"text":"宣傳方式包括發布新聞稿、做相關的說明,但是最重要的是我們跟所有的會計師公會、記賬師公會、還有這些報稅代言公會,逐一的去做公會詳細的說明。那如果企業這方面他們有需求希望我們能夠對他們一對一的輔導的話,我們各地區國稅局也都是派員親自去做相關的輔導。"},{"start":2957.052,"end":2973.483,"text":"請問這個新的制度會影響到多少人?然後你估計這個可以課到多少稅收?目前我們是預估從上市櫃公司的統計資料來看的話大概會有七成左右的企業也就是將近1245家"},{"start":2977.425,"end":2989.788,"text":"包括上市櫃企業因為他們可能因為都有對外投資的行為那這些企業可能會受到我們CFC稅制的影響那有關稅收的統計因為近幾年我們其實沒有實際上的統計但是我們在103年當時有委託過學者研究大概估計是每年平均大概有盈餘國外的盈餘大概有1295億元那可能影響的稅收大概是55億元"},{"start":3006.533,"end":3020.251,"text":"但是因為這幾年其實是因為因為我們有很多除了這個CLC它不是你所有的每一塊盈餘都要課稅它基本上還有一些豁免條款比如說你雖然是在低稅負地區投資但是呢你如果在低稅負地區有實質的營運活動"},{"start":3022.193,"end":3045.623,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":3046.243,"end":3070.096,"text":"如果是這樣的話,今年預估因為112年度的盈利事業所得稅是收到9000多億然後個人的綜合所得稅的部分是收到5000多億所以去年啊,持收數比預估數比那個預算數多很多原因主要是這些都有蠻大的這個gap啦那你今年你認為呢?"},{"start":3071.574,"end":3097.675,"text":"您估計今年會不會也會這樣子呢?因為我們今年在預計我們的預算數的時候包含我們的營所稅、中所稅還有各個稅務其實我們都已經有採用比較新的估測方式而且參考了就是這些上市櫃公司它實際上的獲利狀況還有營運的狀況那因此我們預估就是在營所稅的方面到目前為止我們是覺得跟我們的估測數應該是差不多的"},{"start":3098.055,"end":3108.147,"text":"因為去年,我們去年,今年的預算數,營所稅是估9千多億嗎?營所稅"},{"start":3112.435,"end":3129.963,"text":"因所稅是估9千多億對那但是因為我們已經是核實估列所以我們是覺得今年的稅收應該會最後時針的數字應該跟我們的預算數估的差不多那今年唯一比較我覺得我們今年唯一比較沒有把握的是政交稅不是啦"},{"start":3131.055,"end":3156.282,"text":"光是你所說我就可以跟你打賭啦因為我跟你說齁我們財政部的同仁喔他們其實並不是惡意啦但是他們都做比較保守的估計喔那這樣子達成率都可以超過百分之百不會不會其實我們從去年開始因為這兩年我們稅收多於預算時增數大於預算數的狀況確實是比較我用一個比較參考的數字給你聽啦齁我們台灣的GDP"},{"start":3157.679,"end":3174.398,"text":"就算是去年成長比較少也有一點多趴那今年估計要3點多趴也就是說台灣這幾年從來沒有麻辣死的就是在原來的基礎上一直都在疊加上去所以我個人認為喔你們的估算"},{"start":3175.68,"end":3188.712,"text":"可能還是偏保守各位報告其實我們也看了今年最後那個就是政交所最公佈他們那個上市位公司今年財報跟前年的獲利確實是減損了25.63%所以我們覺得我們去年已經有參考他們可能發生的實際獲利的狀況基本上我們是覺得銀索稅的估算應該是趨於何時"},{"start":3200.583,"end":3215.157,"text":"但是在證交稅方面可能我們就比較沒有把握為什麼因為證交稅我們去年是估3000我們在估預算的時候是估3500億的以成交總數成交額是包括這個OTC還有包括這個證交所這兩個"},{"start":3218.72,"end":3246.599,"text":"但是今年上市商業公司從1到4月到目前為止他每月的成交局都已經超過了5000億所以我們覺得政交稅這部分可能是我們在顧測方面可能會有點失準的我跟你說以我的觀念國家依法收稅能夠有多收代表財政健全然後可以做更多福國利民的事包括各方面的開支因為財政是肅政之母這當然是好事不是在苛求你們我們只是要求說如果你們能夠"},{"start":3247.64,"end":3272.87,"text":"更精準一點的話這是希望你們擺死桿頭更進一步你越精準越不讓外界有要見縫插針的機會常有人在那邊拿錯誤的這個定義跟錯誤的名詞在這裡面給你做文章啊讓你搞得你焦頭爛額讓整個社會更加的紛亂我是認為齁其實一個國家的合理稅收如果你們的估計"},{"start":3274.52,"end":3274.7,"text":"委員賴士葆"},{"start":3298.268,"end":3299.329,"text":"因為今年的7月開始就要編114年的預算了嘛"},{"start":3324.404,"end":3346.589,"text":"一百一十五年的預算一億四一億四估一億四的是稅收的對好那因為幸好你繼續當次長對不對那我也繼續在這邊啦我們今天那個對話到半年多之後就可以驗證了就知道到底有沒有像你講的這樣啦如果能夠像你講的這樣當然是很好啦那如果還是繼續超過很多的話就代表你們在估計的時候"},{"start":3347.529,"end":3348.11,"text":"下一位質詢請賴士寶賴委員"},{"start":3383.734,"end":3386.903,"text":"謝謝主席及各行政有請財政部的理事長請理事長"},{"start":3391.667,"end":3418.075,"text":"委員長你知道今天的提案財政部的具體是你們是沒有意見還是支持我們尊重委員會的那個審查的結果你覺得我們提案合理吧因為它是跟我們原來地方稅法通則第4條的立法意旨是相符的是對嘛我們當初我記得那時候最早最早有一個立委叫廖學廣他提出一個政長稅"},{"start":3419.895,"end":3442.691,"text":"引起這個全國的軒然大波後來呢所以讓地方政府地方首長他能夠有這個這個手上有一點權力地方議會地方政府自己決定所以才有一個稅法通則這背景是這樣來的結果因為我們原來的法令就定了"},{"start":3443.686,"end":3454.546,"text":"就是等於好像是地方稅最多就是30%可是事實上有些稅目你們沒有想到的所以我的案子就是說"},{"start":3456.257,"end":3456.898,"text":"我們來看第二題"},{"start":3484.246,"end":3499.011,"text":"你剛才提啊,你剛才回答會員的這個對話,我就覺得連續兩年,請問你啊,去年的營所稅多少?去年的營所稅一兆多少?超過一兆!前年多少?"},{"start":3500.492,"end":3519.42,"text":"也超過一兆,啊當年都超過一兆,今年把它變個9千萬,啊你說今年的經濟成長率還要變成3%以上,比去年更好,所以今年的GDP比去年好,啊結果你們財政部是怎樣啦,因為補兌,講一個補兌是要縮起來,連續兩年都超過一兆,啊結果你們變,變成114,變9千億,9千萬,9千億"},{"start":3529.685,"end":3555.336,"text":"這個報告委員因為我們所得稅是落後徵收所以它如果是110像我們113年估測依據的經濟成長率是112年的經濟成長率所以只有百分之1.31而已而且從那個去年開始我們就發現產業確實是因為它的庫存很多它去化庫存很多我跟妳講虎保這絕對太糗了啦妳每次都低估我咧到時候妳回妳老公咧"},{"start":3556.55,"end":3576.988,"text":"委員我們願意盡量核實核實就要編一兆以上連續兩年都要一兆以上明明編的好啦不願意扯這個我要跟你扯來我跟你講這個統籌分配稅款現在統籌分配稅款你們訂了嘛今年編4千億一般補助款2300萬或者2500萬2500億對吧"},{"start":3582.996,"end":3594.229,"text":"所以加起來就是6500億,佔你們中央的25%,也就是四分之一給地方政府而已"},{"start":3595.525,"end":3618.993,"text":"我們現在大家都社會氛圍啊都說這個地方政府現在中央極權又極錢錢在你手上啊都看你臉色看你今天心情好就多給一點心情不好不少給一點我們法律把它調整一下這個財政措施法律法"},{"start":3619.949,"end":3646.51,"text":"好多委員十幾個版本都說要修!各縣市的選擇的立委大家立場可能不一樣我台北市選出來的我當然要看台北市啊我家裡是我從台中出來的我會關心台中市啊可是其他的委員這個台南的關心台南的這是水平分配垂直分配你先剝一塊肉出來吧"},{"start":3648.154,"end":3656.106,"text":"你很清楚啊,你們以前的長官李肅德任內他就撥了962億給地方政府還擺不平請問這一次來講的話你們可以割多少給地方政府"},{"start":3664.861,"end":3665.241,"text":"我提案啊!是"},{"start":3689.893,"end":3701.225,"text":"我的提案是3000億有人提案六千億啦我算了加10%就是兩千六百億加20%就是五千兩百億你覺得什麼爆放中間可以嗎"},{"start":3701.977,"end":3702.738,"text":"不過我以為這個部分"},{"start":3732.097,"end":3754.686,"text":"你那個講到稅評我講說中央你心目中可以括多少肉給地方政府委員這個我想因為這個涉及到整個地方政府財政的分配所以我們目前也很積極要求地方政府你不括下來地方就沒有啊每個地方政府都是要錢啊不管是藍執政綠執政都要錢啊"},{"start":3756.247,"end":3775.041,"text":"我已經第二次,第一次問部長有沒有答案第二次問你,你是財...照你講你也可以當部長的當那麼久了就次長你是財...你是稅的管稅的次長啊你總知道"},{"start":3776.493,"end":3777.354,"text":"我們尊重委員的提案啦"},{"start":3803.772,"end":3820.51,"text":"因為各個委員都有不同的版本,到時候可能要做充分的討論其他委員科技也都一千億,有的六千億,我是很科技的,三千億也科資的我們看到五月份現在開始報稅了,請問現在網路報稅比例多少?"},{"start":3824.017,"end":3836.467,"text":"手機報稅目前到今天,去年大概是百分之三成左右但是我們5月,從5月1日到今天5月5日為止大概佔服大概百分之五十左右"},{"start":3844.77,"end":3845.49,"text":"未來你的目標希望全部都可以手機報稅嗎?"},{"start":3876.699,"end":3886.622,"text":"目前我們今年最新的做法就是在我們的這個現象版還有就是手機版上面都可以看到一個所謂的查調資料的稅額估算表"},{"start":3887.102,"end":3887.802,"text":"你做了這麼多詐騙集團會不會來"},{"start":3904.108,"end":3904.688,"text":"提供提供提供"},{"start":3935.739,"end":3941.194,"text":"退稅我們是有分3批,第一批退稅在7月底"},{"start":3942.233,"end":3949.536,"text":"最後一個小問題請教你我們現在很多的網紅平台都是YT、FB、IG、Podcast都是國外的公司那它分論了網紅的分論了屬於境外所得還是境內所得"},{"start":3970.604,"end":3988.614,"text":"是。這個部分當然我們要看就是說,這要看他這個網紅這個平台的交易跟我們台灣的市場有沒有聯繫。他如果是跟國內的市場交易產生了獲利的話當然是中華民國來說的。"},{"start":3990.154,"end":3991.195,"text":"什麼意思?再具體一點。"},{"start":4005.371,"end":4021.728,"text":"那如果是境外的廣告那當然就不是我們台灣的來源所得那這個是境外所得如果是純粹是境外公司的話你查得到嗎?你現在看比如說我們的郭委員他開一個節目他網紅他全世界看到的不是只有台灣看嗎?"},{"start":4023.083,"end":4023.523,"text":"再次引請郭國文、郭昭瑋"},{"start":4060.909,"end":4085.711,"text":"主席有請李慶華次長李次長委員長安次長好次長我剛剛看你的回答颱風穩健而且相當專業但是我們現在面對一些問題能不能運用你的專業來達到這個真正的solution跟目標那其實我覺得今天討論到地方稅法通則免不了會牽扯到地方財政的問題"},{"start":4086.651,"end":4104.023,"text":"那牽涉到地方財政的話剛剛有好幾位委員我們在委員會當中也提了好幾次有關於這個整個財法法的修法的問題可是財法法的問題、修法的問題真的就如同你剛剛回覆了一般不應該只有考慮到垂直的分配而已應該要考慮到水平的分配"},{"start":4104.603,"end":4127.111,"text":"如果單單考慮到垂直的分配的情況底下,有些縣市目前自主的財源就已經高達90幾%了。如果這樣子的情況底下只會讓縣市之間水平的分配更加不平均,是不是?沒錯。如果是這樣子的話,就應該從垂直水平之外,而且不只單一財政收支劃分法,還有牽扯到什麼?公債法。"},{"start":4127.851,"end":4151.831,"text":"還有牽扯到什麼?地方稅法通則。我覺得這三個法當中財政部應該用一個比較通盤的角度來思考說地方的財政要怎麼去改善嘛,對不對?那如果拉回來這麼說的話,那我們今天討論的地方稅法通則從民國91年施行到現在,你覺得它對地方的財政的這個財政能力有所提升嗎?就結果來看。"},{"start":4152.692,"end":4152.752,"text":"新開徵22個稅金19個縣市"},{"start":4174.704,"end":4191.91,"text":"從施行到現在,但是就是有些縣市已經施行屆滿,它就已經停徵了。但如果說是整個到112年度為止的話,我們是總共對地方財源大概貢獻了180億元左右。總共才180億元,你覺得這個有助於解決這些地方財政的問題嗎?"},{"start":4193.27,"end":4199.854,"text":"基本上是有一些幫助的但是到目前為止就是剩下14個縣市還在課針對而且那個22個品項當中裡頭還有很多雷同的地方就是本期所累積的這個部分你的數字可能比較新那我現在算起來大概169億"},{"start":4220.384,"end":4221.205,"text":"所以這是到目前為止還在進行的。"},{"start":4240.967,"end":4268.755,"text":"不過因為我們地方稅法通則因為它的課徵它還是有受到一些限制對問題就是在這個限制當中當初是不是限制的過多導致這樣的結果就是說如果說我們要去談所謂的這個地方財政的這個能力問題的話就不應該只有做放在整個中央這個統籌分配的這個概念來進行嘛也應該賦予地方比較大的權利跟空間嘛不是嗎"},{"start":4269.755,"end":4292.032,"text":"可是我們要賦予地方的權力比較大的空間的情況底下你又在地方稅法通則給他匡列這麼多可是報告委員因為我們這個地方稅法通則開徵因為主要是熱線市在課徵我就直接請教你一件事情嘛就地方稅法通則來增加地方政府財政能力的情況底下還有沒有檢討修法的空間嗎因為大家都做方在這個財政收支發分法嘛"},{"start":4293.713,"end":4311.881,"text":"你有沒有思考過這個問題?已經通過了這麼久才收到這個180億其實主要是稅收比較少的原因也是因為他基本上就是剛才跟委員報告過因為他限制了某些事項不得開徵也許就限制過多本席就做這樣的提醒"},{"start":4312.581,"end":4332.083,"text":"如果說今天所有的委員不管你是在野黨或執政黨來說他這麼關心整個地方財政的問題的話那我們應該做不同的這個法案的列別當中來做一個比較通盤性的檢討嘛提出思考的可能性能不能提升他的地方政府的財政能力嘛而不是只是著眼在這個所謂的統籌分配或中央的垂直分配而已嘛不是嗎"},{"start":4332.703,"end":4351.339,"text":"我們現在其實也參考各個委員提案的建議其實我們現在也是對於我們目前中央立法的一些地方稅本期就是這樣建議你嗎?我們是不是可以從公債法、財法法還有地方稅法通則不同的法的面向來思考如何提升地方的財政能力嗎?"},{"start":4353.661,"end":4376.433,"text":"會通報來檢討稅法專家嗎?對不對?可不可以用來做這麼來做思考?目前的其他的地方稅制上面也會做一些檢討那如果好的話,那你大概是多久的時候要給本席一個答案嗎?一個月可不可以?因為目前就是我們現在涉及到地方稅的可能可以…沒有啦,你說大的方向啦!我不是說你時期的法案內容,不用那麼小心啦!這個委員可不可以給我們比較久一點的時間?兩個月可以嗎?"},{"start":4379.114,"end":4379.634,"text":"目前是沒有限制。"},{"start":4398.741,"end":4400.182,"text":"因為今天的修法其實它並不會增加地方的稅收它主要還是只是在做一個就是原來立法精神的明確化而已"},{"start":4422.176,"end":4449.149,"text":"其實是談到中央跟地方的分基問題倒不是增加稅收的問題倒是談到這個體制的問題單一體制還是聯邦體制的問題那基本上你如果認為沒有危險到單一體制的話那就OK嘛那再拉回來講喔上個禮拜我在經濟委員會的時候你有特別對經濟委員會的這一個加薪抵稅條款來進行背書啦就是認為他這個法案是正確的可是問題是稅差損也不過不到一億耶"},{"start":4450.169,"end":4466.595,"text":"市長,你這個倍數我就發現這個版本根本不是經濟部訂的,簡直是你財政部訂的嘛沒有啦,我們是配合經濟部訂的你有自我設限嗎?那你應該跟經濟部講啊怎麼只有才有150%而已,能不能提高,這能夠真的達到他的偵測目標嗎?本席真的強烈懷疑耶"},{"start":4470.438,"end":4480.065,"text":"因為其實為什麼我們中小企業發展條例這個減稅的措施實施以來基本上稅損都不是太大主要的原因當然也跟中小企業本身"},{"start":4485.61,"end":4508.59,"text":"因為我們中小企業很多他是獨自合夥的企業他根本不用繳稅嘛就是特質的問題你還提到說可能會有勞保的問題其他的社會保險的基礎的問題對因為我們這邊薪資提高以後他們也會增加相關的勞保的成本啊對你有提到你在媒體上有提到所以嘛你們如果說整體的政治目標你不是站在一個本位思考你說應該達到勞工交薪的效果你是不是要提韓國的一些例子來做直接的一個補助嘛"},{"start":4509.15,"end":4524.436,"text":"對不對?不是說你不是用稅的角度來做思考嗎?怎麼會這樣啊?對,有一些人也提到就是說因為租稅畢竟不是一個最...唯一的工具,唯一的工具對,是啊不然我這個真的老實講即便修了這一個條款啊我老實講啊"},{"start":4525.396,"end":4526.637,"text":"最後問一下部長"},{"start":4540.368,"end":4561.284,"text":"市長我有一個問題想問,抱歉,我剛剛回答有部長之風,我跟舊市長有一個問題,現在海外的資金的曝顯大家都很關心,但是問題是在整個資金有一個大挪移的現象,整個國營的這個曝顯的部分呢,它從原來的中國移到哪裡?移到美國,移到日本,移到東南亞,你們現在的狀況有沒有進行掌握?"},{"start":4562.143,"end":4589.38,"text":"有確實有掌握那有掌握的部分呢但是就本席所理解的有些曝險的狀況是投資的部分減少但是販款的部分的增加現在回答一下本席現在狀況趨勢是怎麼樣目前我們是看到之所以會有曝險當然一方面就是剛才委員講的投資的增加那另外一方面就是真正會產生問題的像我們很多都是連帶案就是給那些國外的一些融資中國現在到底國營裡頭還放了多少錢"},{"start":4591.741,"end":4609.061,"text":"中國目前還有多少錢?中國那邊啊?我沒有跟你講大陸,我是跟你講中國。我請國庫署查一下,看看我們現在那個負險的金還剩多少?對啊,要講一下嘛。然後你到日本跟美國的投資到底增加多少?"},{"start":4610.443,"end":4620.109,"text":"這個整個國營就是一個指標嗎還是委員我們可不可以就是會後再提供詳細的資料給你還有包括東南亞的部分還有東南亞的部分好 謝謝次長 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝好 下一位質詢請謝謝主席那個嚴委員在線我們請國庫署署長等等等等那個是賴會員賴委員"},{"start":4644.855,"end":4645.155,"text":"國庫署和護稅署"},{"start":4660.106,"end":4677.722,"text":"市長我們知道就是5月1日到5月31日是今年度的一個報稅的時間那我們希望就是透過免稅還是扣除了的一個優惠照顧更多的一個弱勢的民眾那事實上就是說在整體而言"},{"start":4678.763,"end":4693.232,"text":"我們的中手稅透過免稅扣除而平衡的一個真實生活的一個狀況那是不是請署長講今年就是我們所有的免稅額除了這個有哪幾種呢?"},{"start":4695.123,"end":4711.639,"text":"我們在我們綜合手續稅制之下常規的稅制第一個就免稅剛才會有特別提到另外最主要就是有兩項扣除為是標準跟列舉擇一適用那我們標準扣除的金額這幾年都有隨著物價指數調整而調整"},{"start":4713.861,"end":4737.868,"text":"另外在107年實施所的稅制優化的時候又有大補條另外就特別扣除的部分特別扣除就是基於政策的需要目前二百屆最關注的就包含長照特別扣除還有我們所謂生性障礙特別扣除及幼兒學前特別扣除還有今年剛通過會從113年度實施的租金支出改列特別扣除的部分"},{"start":4738.288,"end":4763.639,"text":"那這些其實都可以針對我們一般的民眾的需要,還有我們所謂的弱勢民眾。如果弱勢民眾,例如我們剛才講殘障啊,或是幼兒學錢,或是我們剛才講的所謂的長照,都可以反映他們實際上的情形。那我在這裡特別請教你就是說,在這一度今年的報稅的各項的減免稅額跟去年有多少的一個差距?"},{"start":4764.239,"end":4769.368,"text":"那這些差距有沒有造成我們國家的稅收額度的減少呢?"},{"start":4770.633,"end":4795.426,"text":"目前我們長照的話還是維持原來的12萬那另外另外像我們講的是對不起是這個嗎長照是維持我們還是12萬嗎幼兒學年特別扣除在會從113年度大幅調整會從12萬大幅調整到第一胎是15萬第二胎是22.5萬那這個我們都已經"},{"start":4798.988,"end":4810.1,"text":"律法修正通過了,這也是在委員的支持之下通過的。律法修正通過了,這也是在委員的支持之下通過的。律法修正通過了,這也是在委員的支持之下通過的。律法修正通過了,這也是在委員的支持之下通過的。"},{"start":4820.131,"end":4838.303,"text":"月額選前特別扣除我們用的方式是定期評估的方式那像我們講的長照是108年後來我們去評估以後增訂的那一次就訂到12萬那我們講月額選前特別扣除啊像今年通過的也都是用定期評估它調整幅度會比較大像這種定期評估的調整幅度會比較大"},{"start":4841.725,"end":4867.735,"text":"這種局劇是滾動式的一個評估方式事實上其實我們覺得就是在現實的生活裡頭你說一個長照你把它抵減12萬你應該有聽到很多就是不滿的聲音那還有寫成扣除額的一個那個就是備用調整的一個規定其實大家還是稍嫌不足那就是我們還是朝著一個等距不斷的在做調整嗎"},{"start":4868.875,"end":4897.964,"text":"我們都會滾動檢討,除了稅制都是如此,我們都會往這個方向去努力。好,那在這裡我還要再跟這個署長做一個討論,因為我們知道就是說在6歲以下我們有一個學錢扣除額,然後在就是大學以上我們有一個教學那個教育經費的一個扣除額,可是相對的就是說在這個6歲跟大學中間這個國高中這一段顯然我們是"},{"start":4898.584,"end":4916.569,"text":"沒有了這個是一個真空區那我們如何協助家長我們有沒有做這樣的一個準備呢報告委員因為政府在做這些相關政策的時候其實不外乎兩項主要的政策工具一個就是支出另外一個就是租稅那委員詮詢的是有關租稅的部分"},{"start":4917.069,"end":4917.95,"text":"是義務教育,那他們上不上才藝?他們需不需要到安親班呢?"},{"start":4935.66,"end":4958.805,"text":"不過委員這個是看個別家庭狀況所以我們稅是基本上照顧一般民眾的需求可是我們現有的實際的一個狀況裡頭有很多家庭是雙薪的有很多家庭是隔代教養的其實他們很需要就是安心的一個利用所以我們針對弱勢少子化可以不可以有更多的免稅額這是我要跟就是署長做一個討論的"},{"start":4960.145,"end":4967.21,"text":"如果就是說現行的那個不養免稅額一個人是每年才9萬2的話那幾乎就是"},{"start":4968.752,"end":4987.985,"text":"每個月是7667,其實不夠養一個小孩子那如果我們要再考慮到子女的教育經費那這個就是我再重提一次單親隔代教養的這些家庭是不是可以增加其他的免稅額度這個其實是我希望你們去討論的然後去檢討的好,我們會再滾動檢討"},{"start":4992.929,"end":4993.869,"text":"國產署署長"},{"start":5018.855,"end":5043.169,"text":"委員長,我想跟你討論就是沒有人繼承了財產的一個活化的一個可利用性因為我們知道就是說沒有人繼承了這個不動產的拍賣如果進到國庫以後我們會用到哪裡就是沒有人聲明繼承的其實我們都知道說經過15年了以後我們這個地方機關列管經過15年然後就是停止列管的一個拍賣"},{"start":5043.949,"end":5069.843,"text":"然後在最後他會進到國庫那如果沒有拍手成功的這些不動產可是這些不動產還堪用的你們怎麼用呢跟委員報告那我想剛剛委員的這個資料是很清楚就是說先代管15年15年我們就期滿就會做相關的拍賣那拍賣的所得會放到內政部一個專款"},{"start":5070.683,"end":5092.077,"text":"然後10年內原來有繼承的這些資格的人他還是可以把他因扣掉必要的稅負跟作業費用以後他是可以領回的那在還沒有完成5次拍賣之前這個財產都還算是私人的所以政府為了尊重私人財產的產權的部分要經過幾次的拍賣要經過5次"},{"start":5094.699,"end":5108.328,"text":"五次的拍賣一般來講的話因為這個涉及到人民的權利因為無緣繼承財產它的原因有非常的多包括有些是兄弟姊妹之間對於繼承的問題的訴訟或糾紛甚至有一些繼承人不明"},{"start":5115.173,"end":5143.156,"text":"我當然知道這個5次的拍賣是非常謹慎的那我們也知道就是說這個不謹慎不行會延伸很多後續的救援那我再跟這個署長特別提到的就是一個我們社會住宅社會住宅這個公共建設其實它的一個經費受到了一個限制所以它的整個進度也會變慢就以我們台南就是社會住宅"},{"start":5143.636,"end":5164.035,"text":"其實預計是7000戶到目前新建中才3153戶那待開工的還有4856戶其實真正住進去的完工的才202戶那為什麼呢?就是沒有錢所以有沒有機會就是說在這個沒有人聲明繼承的這一些財產裡頭就是經過了5次的一個拍賣然後"},{"start":5168.499,"end":5185.787,"text":"我們可以把它用在就是等於是國庫裡頭我們可以把它提出來提出來就是說納入社會的一個基金還是保障弱勢那有沒有機會就是公共建設的一個活用的一個利用呢有沒有你們有沒有思考過這樣的一個問題"},{"start":5186.827,"end":5211.668,"text":"報告委員因為剛剛講了這個經過保管10年以後進入到國庫那就是納到我們的國庫的收入就是一般的這些跟著國家預算的支出那涉宅所需要的經費目前國有土地的提供都是原則上是涉宅是一部分那如果我們也把它納進來就是我們的健保醫療那個這一個那個必須要修法"},{"start":5212.088,"end":5214.811,"text":"國產署來承辦無人繼承財產及未辦理繼承財產的部分是受內政部之托,所以真正的法令是在內政部。金額不多。"},{"start":5234.77,"end":5250.964,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":5251.284,"end":5251.805,"text":"委員賴士葆等"},{"start":5268.228,"end":5289.424,"text":"就學需要增加就是學年客戶儲額的一個可行性,評估沒有人繼承財產收歸到國庫,專做健保基金的一個社會福利的一個可行性,那也評估這個飆售的程序是不是可以更有效率創新的一個方式,那希望在一個業內提出書面報告。謝謝主席,謝謝兩位主席。好,謝謝委員,謝謝。好,謝謝,資料在後補。接著請嚴寬恒,嚴委員質詢。"},{"start":5305.816,"end":5307.359,"text":"財政部理事長財政部理事長"},{"start":5321.53,"end":5349.329,"text":"請教次長今天要審查的是地方稅法通則第四條我國地方稅法可分為兩大類一類是屬於中央立法者另一類是地方自主制定者那地方的財源都仰賴中央統籌付費款中央補助款及中央補助款那目前六都六都自籌的財源大約佔了五成那其他縣市就更辛苦了自籌財源僅佔大概三成"},{"start":5350.47,"end":5357.137,"text":"中央政府經常鼓勵地方要自首裁員。原條文規範的地方稅應由中央規定稅率,因此與地方自治權益定定無相關。"},{"start":5368.47,"end":5390.13,"text":"所以為了避免意識不明引起的爭議及誤會所以提案委員把文字做了一些修正更清楚表達法條想要表達的意思本席認為地方稅制應該回歸給地方自治那除了需要中方制定的稅者之外讓地方自己有空間來做處理對於這部分的修正請教次長您的態度"},{"start":5391.296,"end":5391.597,"text":"財政部支援"},{"start":5412.356,"end":5440.567,"text":"那接下來就是世界地球日10月22號大家最關切的議題當然是有關於這個碳費的徵收還有淨零排碳這個淨零排碳是世界趨勢那各國利用碳權、碳稅還有碳交易的手段來這個達成減少二氧化碳排放的目標那碳費是2023年1月10日山土通過"},{"start":5444.444,"end":5465.379,"text":"氣候變遷因應法,將2050淨零排炭目標入法設立的機制。碳費、碳稅、碳教育都不同。在台灣,計算7月排放量之後,碳費會繳給環境部,用於減碳措施、能源轉型等公共建設用途。"},{"start":5465.839,"end":5484.359,"text":"那碳稅是由各國稅務機關來徵收作為國庫的收入那本席的選區有許多的工廠這些廠商都非常的關切碳稅及碳費的相關議題請教次長關於碳稅的部分我們財政部是不是在5月領事後就會開始課證"},{"start":5486.628,"end":5499.216,"text":"報告委員,基本上我們是目前就是氣候變遷因應法目前我們是以推動碳費先行的方式來處理那有關碳稅的課徵呢,原則上我們將來應該要試碳費施行的情形再來評估它推動是不是要課徵碳稅的實現"},{"start":5506.821,"end":5507.562,"text":"另外一個更重要因為這個"},{"start":5529.732,"end":5551.307,"text":"臺灣的一個碳費的制度引發業界可能被同時收取碳費還有貨物稅的一個雙重課稅。那所以希望財政部可以重新,現在產業都在希望說財政部可以重新來新設能源稅,取代貨物稅,讓相關的稅率明確化可不可以?"},{"start":5552.014,"end":5577.566,"text":"目前我們的規劃方向就是可能將來就是如果在課徵假設這個研究案最後建議我們能夠推動這個碳稅的話我們會並同檢討這個貨物稅的課稅項目會是的,因為我們有很多的部分像現在在課徵的貨物稅當中就有油氣、汽車這些能源的部分所以它已經具備了環境稅的性質那你現在在課徵這個碳稅那就變成1.5百億這樣賠"},{"start":5580.868,"end":5581.209,"text":"因為時間有限,我就"},{"start":5596.568,"end":5615.001,"text":"有關產業創新條例,那108年制定的這個產業創新條例第10條之一,針對這個構置智慧機械5G通訊系統的全新硬體軟體技術還有技術服務等,提供企業投資這個抵減租稅,那在抵減租稅的部分,"},{"start":5618.884,"end":5639.266,"text":"全國工種主張抵減稅率應該提高到15%財政部主張是5%經濟部則是取中間值10%我想請教次長這一部分有沒有共識做了多少次的研討、討論跟企業還有工會之間有沒有做更進一步的協調"},{"start":5640.968,"end":5641.508,"text":"經濟部會聽取各界意見後整理一個方案"},{"start":5659.835,"end":5668.462,"text":"為什麼財政部會主張是5%?目前還沒有跟我們進一步討論財政部就是要求比較嚴苛的對產業要求比較嚴苛我們原則上就是維持現行產創條例10條之一的稅率目前就是還沒有進行進一步的討論就是說鼓勵企業投資這些智慧機械5G通訊相關技術還有這個科技的創新等等"},{"start":5686.921,"end":5707.273,"text":"這是一個相當好的政策啦所以我們財政部這邊應該要大力支持所以我希望各部會溝通完成之後盡速把這些法案趕快送到立法院來審查所以我們會跟經濟部等經濟部那邊能夠趕在年底以前就是說讓這些原始這個原租稅的優惠到期之前我們會有經濟部來訂定修法時程"},{"start":5713.036,"end":5736.042,"text":"最後一項是財政收支劃分法已經講了二十幾年了都在原地踏步財政部目前喊出的六大修法原則都僅僅是停滯在空範的口號欠缺實際計算的公式還有具體的做法請教次長上述的就是這六點你要補充的部分嗎?精確的補充好不好?"},{"start":5736.844,"end":5761.519,"text":"基本上其實我們還是依照目前這個處理的六大原則在做相關的研議方向啦那也在徵詢我們各地方政府的意見那我想因為目前各地方政府的意見還相當的分歧所以我們財政部在近期會召集地方政府來做一個意見的溝通那等到相關的意見能夠如果有整合的話也許我們就會提出相關財務法的修正方向更具體的修正方向"},{"start":5763.776,"end":5767.398,"text":"財政部應該是最穩定的應該要開始著手規劃把這些財政措施劃分法更具體的來做一個設計以台中市為例"},{"start":5790.314,"end":5813.965,"text":"台中市113年總稅出1775億比112年稅出減少了200億,超過200億因為112年台中市的稅出只有1504億台中市市政府以更合適的方式編列這些預算而且台中市的財政升級從3級升到2級"},{"start":5816.966,"end":5827.737,"text":"但是他並沒有因為這樣得到什麼樣的一個中央政府的一個鼓勵或者是一個加獎反倒是因為這樣對於台中市的各項補助都減少"},{"start":5828.956,"end":5829.376,"text":"臺中市為例"},{"start":5855.168,"end":5882.374,"text":"希望財政部做好準備因為財源的分配影響各地還有很多公共建設那不管是台中市也好其他六都的其他城市還有其六都之外的城市都需要中央的經費統籌分配款、中央補助款、專案補助款等等這些東西所以次長我們請財政部一定要加緊動員把這件事情做好好不好好謝謝委員我們會來積極來處理這個事情謝謝委員"},{"start":5890.427,"end":5903.559,"text":"下一質詢請 劉許廷 劉委員好 謝謝主席齁財政部次長有請請理事長"},{"start":5907.469,"end":5926.685,"text":"委員早安市長早安今天分幾件事情跟你做一下討論第一個是我們今天的地方稅法通則第四條條文修正案那我想剛剛在跟很多委員答詢的過程中應該也蠻清楚的這個讓在法條的文字上做修正讓他的定義更清楚這個行政機關應該不會有什麼意見吧"},{"start":5927.256,"end":5943.972,"text":"因為這次的修法其實跟我們地方稅法通則當時立法的原意是相符的對精神是完全一致的嘛對不對所以對於今日審查法案本期競表支持啦要完善說明避免爭議希望就趕快修正來做通過啦但這個今天既然有大選的時間當然多討論幾個問題所以第二個問題是現在是五月也就是大家俗稱的報稅季"},{"start":5949.638,"end":5972.933,"text":"我們最近發現公務人員的離職跟退休的人數其實在這幾年基本上是一個居高不下的狀況相對來講人力的補充我們也收到很多地方特別是國稅局這邊尤其在報稅季的時候特別有感一年裡面最累的狀況就是這樣但是現在人力缺口的狀況甚至連報考的狀況都沒有額滿部長有沒有這樣的狀況"},{"start":5976.035,"end":5998.062,"text":"目前看起來公務員好像已經不是一個第一選擇的行列是啊那怎麼辦呢我現在擔心的就是這個嘛稅務人員的報考是沒有額滿的情況之下就招不滿是第一個問題第二個問題叫做流動性很高啊也就是說我基本上我就有一個最低在這裡只要這個服務滿一定的年資我可以調任的時候我立刻就申請調任了"},{"start":5999.182,"end":5999.362,"text":"財政部長"},{"start":6017.814,"end":6042.753,"text":"其實我們現在就是,我們也發現就是說我們稅務人員人力不足的問題,剛才有提到這個人力流動的問題當然所以我們現在希望就是在稅務的基準上面能夠更為的簡便當然這個當然就是涉及到我們自己本身在這個執行上面我們都用一些科技的方式或者一些比較就是數位的方式來提升我們的這個基準技術讓我們的人力負擔盡量的減輕"},{"start":6046.135,"end":6075.389,"text":"那這個部分是我們現在目前持續在努力的部分能夠減去他們的負擔這樣本期給你幾個建議啦比如說本期選區裡面的北區國稅局基本上可能就是你全國最血汗的單位之一啦那他們現在有想法就是說為了留住嘛他很多這個考上的是離鄉背井的嘛住中南部之類的但是分發在這個地方來做服務那他們就會考量他們居住的需求希望有這個新做這個員工宿舍啦減少他的舟車勞頓我想這都是體恤基層員工的正面的做法"},{"start":6076.109,"end":6104.54,"text":"當然就協調這個閒置的官社跟土地,國有財產署基本上也是你們處理的嘛,對不對?既然都同一個單位的,希望部裡面趕快協調啦,積極來回應這個基層的請求,好不好?國有財產署絕對會配合我們各地區國稅局的需求來提供這個相關的閒置房舍,讓國稅局來做評估是不是可以適宜作為職員宿舍的使用這當然就是各種手段並進啦,包含次長你剛剛講的嘛,這個就是使用科技的手段,精簡人力的需求"},{"start":6105.14,"end":6107.441,"text":"我們可以把我們對這方面的改進措施提供給委員參考"},{"start":6129.713,"end":6145.583,"text":"好,再來,既然都講到稅,那我們就講到今天第三個題目,其實也是今天我最關心的題目,當然就是財政收支劃分法嘛,對不對?這個,我剛剛特別查了一下,上一次有官方的版本件,大概是十幾年前的事情對,就是民國1995年的對,95年喔,超過接近20年了,對不對?"},{"start":6149.785,"end":6173.457,"text":"所以說財化法年久未修好像是個老問題了對不對那今天剛剛寬恒委員也講了嘛對不對就是說我們這一次財政部算是人員最穩定的部長也留任了次長兩位次長也都留任了對不對所以當然就延續性我們已經沒有什麼好再拖時間也沒有什麼好說等新政府上任了嘛請問我們現在政府現在對於這個願版的財化法什麼時候會生的出來還是從來沒打算有願版"},{"start":6175.39,"end":6178.032,"text":"我剛開頭的時候特別去講說上一次弄出來就是快20年前"},{"start":6205.066,"end":6219.726,"text":"這個凝聚共識的過程持續了10幾年也算是前所未見了嘛 對不對所以我希望可以聽到一個具體的時間表啦比如說我們立法院有8個會期對不對你預計在哪一個會期的時候會有一個明確的版本大家可以送進立法院來做討論對不對有沒有一些明確的時間表呢"},{"start":6222.396,"end":6250.587,"text":"這個部分目前大概沒有辦法告訴委員我們的明確時間表是什麼時候我們還需要一些時間阿是這樣子啦就我們在野黨當然會提出在野黨的版本嘛對不對那其實大方向大概也其實我們你們會找各縣市首長開會我們也會找各縣市首長開會嘛所以大體上方向其實也不會相差太遠啦所以就希望行政院這一段喔速度可以加快比如說總裁員的分配嘛按照現行的狀況大概是中央其實掌握七成左右地方大概有三成就已經投效了對不對"},{"start":6251.067,"end":6252.468,"text":"市長知不知道桃園每一年上繳多少稅收也重要?上繳"},{"start":6272.267,"end":6274.089,"text":"我看桃園財政局的資料2022年從桃園這樣他有他的計算標準是2337億"},{"start":6293.39,"end":6307.023,"text":"這幾年其實桃園貢獻的稅收絕對在全國算是名列前嘛市長應該不會反對我這樣說對不對他基本上一直在持續的精進而且持續的成長可是實際上我們桃園分配到的數量每次都是倒數的好像也不太公平對不對"},{"start":6308.673,"end":6324.526,"text":"對這個分配的問題當然也是財務法要解決的問題啦所以分配的部分第一方面我們當然希望說營業稅的層數可以往上拉第二個我希望財政部既然你們現在都還在這個廣泛意見爭取的過程我希望你們可以把工業產值這件事情納入考量"},{"start":6325.246,"end":6345.811,"text":"因為從工業產值來講為什麼我桃園你剛剛講了五千億或者是桃園財政局講了兩千多億其實都是因為我們是產業重鎮所以基本上工業產值大量來自於桃園工廠放在我們這個地方污染是我們這地方來承受交通壓力等等都市負載都是我們在承受可是在分配的時候只算這營業額的數量很多公司的總部登記不在桃園"},{"start":6346.291,"end":6375.437,"text":"那這個東西相對來講就影響了你的公司的設算跟分配那既然說財政收支劃分法要檢討這些內容啊我希望未來要把工業產值放進去這樣比較公平嘛 對不對因為我們相對來講城市負擔的這個負載的這個付出的成本是高的實際上也創造出了大量的產值要不然哪來這麼多錢呢 對不對所以說不管是講總裁員的比例調整營業額的營業稅的這個額度工業產值的納入考量這我都希望趕快有一個眉目嘛"},{"start":6375.797,"end":6395.709,"text":"那這些東西其實在黨內部已經做了討論我們很快都會有很多版本出來了那我們希望行政院趕快要有版本出來了好不好趕快盡快的來審查改善這個中央跟地方財政失衡的狀況也讓地方的地方政府有更多的空間可以來發揮來改善大家的生活品質好不好這部分請財政部跟這個好好加把勁啦謝謝謝謝委員謝謝好 謝謝下一位質詢"},{"start":6404.771,"end":6405.712,"text":"蘇巧惠蘇委員謝謝主席,我們請次長請理事長"},{"start":6419.737,"end":6446.269,"text":"市長我們今天要討論的是地方稅法通則尤其是在講到第四條那我想先請市長再簡單的表示一下因為從剛剛到現在其實每個委員都有不同的考慮的面向市長基於地方自治和財源自籌這樣的狀況其實我們放寬一點讓地方可以調整今天主要修法的方向是這樣那財政部的立場到底是同意還是不同意啊"},{"start":6447.092,"end":6461.81,"text":"因為這次兩個委員提案修正的版本他其實只是把第四條的所謂的地方稅的這個這個漲幅的部分嘛講清楚說是中央立法的地方稅對對對但是其實我們第四條本來他就"},{"start":6462.11,"end":6485.746,"text":"原來的意旨就是中央立法的地方稅所以這次修法其實它不涉及整個實質的變動它其實還是跟我們原來立法的意旨相符的所以它其實對文字明確化不但影響不會太大而且說實在的對這個後面的稅基等等項目其實都沒有做到調整所以這樣聽起來其實財政部的立場也是支持的就對了"},{"start":6486.246,"end":6487.506,"text":"第4條財政部的立場是如此的話那我也想跟您請教一下我們第6條的部分"},{"start":6516.074,"end":6537.961,"text":"第6條的部分其實在第二項的最後他其實有講了一個備查備查兩個字那次長我想請問依據地方制度法備查它的意義是怎麼樣定義是如何備查基本上當然就是地方稅已經議會通過的地方制度法律我就說備查兩個字是它只是就是讓我們知悉對"},{"start":6539.381,"end":6539.401,"text":"對,是"},{"start":6554.502,"end":6578.156,"text":"有不予被查的案件為什麼可以有不予被查?那不予被查的效力會是如何?基本上第一個因為我們地方稅法通則第三條它還是有規定說你要開徵的特別稅客或者臨時稅客或附加稅客有下列事項是不得開徵的"},{"start":6579.356,"end":6588.76,"text":"例如第一項你是轄區外的交易第二個流通至轄區外的天然資源或礦產品等等或者是它經營的範圍跨越了轄區的對就這幾條這幾項是不能開徵的項目那如果說有地方它已經地方制條例通過"},{"start":6598.104,"end":6613.575,"text":"是要針對這些不得開徵的項目來開徵這些稅客的話即使報到我們財政部來備查因為我們的備查程序除了財政部之外我們還要會同內政部還要會同行政院主席總署還有相關的監督機關比如說像礦石稅會有這個經濟部所以我們會有相關的機關一起來討論那如果它是一個違法課徵的行為我們就不以備查好"},{"start":6625.563,"end":6638.014,"text":"市長,你不覺得說到這裡有點矛盾嗎?被查只是知悉所以你用不予被查不就是等於是有審核的狀況了嗎?可是根據剛剛說的狀況來講的話如果我明明規定你地方就是不應該不能法律規定你不能開徵這些項目但是你偏偏又開徵了那難道我就眼睜睜的看著你繼續這樣違法下去嗎?這好像也不太對啊"},{"start":6651.986,"end":6678.096,"text":"所以這兩者都對但兩者合在一起又都不對的狀況下那第6條是不是我們也應該如同你現在在修第4條一樣讓它可以語意更清楚一點是原則上第6條當然因為它的用被查這兩個字其實跟我們現在地方制度法的規定有點不太相對因為我們是有實質審查的效果沒有錯啊雖然我們審查的是適當性而是法性但是還是有實質審查的效果"},{"start":6679.477,"end":6697.61,"text":"所以我們這個地方就是也應該做一些至少字義上面的調整文字上面的調整我剛剛就說了嘛基於地方自治財源自籌我們應該可以放寬可是國家有國家的制度應該遵守每個部會也都有應該大家應該要盡的責任要審查的部分要能夠清楚"},{"start":6697.99,"end":6712.326,"text":"好那如果中央地方大家都有權責又希望把事情弄清楚的話好做事那就是像今天一樣啦那你第4條這樣可以修正的話那你同不同意我們也可以來討論第6條這個文字是不是也把它修正讓大家更清楚更好做事嘛"},{"start":6712.927,"end":6732.175,"text":"如果說因為今天提案只有提修正第4條那當然如果說我們如果後續有要調整第6條我覺得財政部自己也可以討論啊因為如果從這個第6條今天你從第4條的文字那到現在我提出來的第6條的文字那甚至我們再進一步而言啦如果我們"},{"start":6732.995,"end":6749.725,"text":"今天你要採取的是實質審核了好那我覺得這是一種方向那麼配套著我們今天的地方稅法通則說來說去其實只有幾條一共才10條而已而且第10條還是本通則自公佈日實施其實是非常單純就只有9條非常簡單不是單純是簡單只有9條而已那"},{"start":6755.148,"end":6783.177,"text":"這樣的狀況下其實就應該要搭配上您剛剛說的第三條這樣的這麼大的空間裡面你要搭配實質審核實質審查才會比較有道理嘛好 如果你要繼續維持著這個被查的狀況那就只是知悉囉那如果是知悉的話那是不是應該在這樣的一個通則裡面它就它的項目甚至是稅率其實應該有更嚴謹的規定地方才知道哪一些是可以做哪一些是不可以做做了以後會有什麼效果啊"},{"start":6783.837,"end":6802.533,"text":"所以我覺得啦,老實說這個地方稅法通則是民國91年訂的今天都已經是幾年了我們是不是應該就這整部其實今天修第四條應該是一個起點我覺得其實整部都可以來討論應該要怎麼樣可以讓它更完善一點是比如說後面是實質審查中央有這樣的資格"},{"start":6806.136,"end":6828.864,"text":"還是是中央就是備查但前面把它定的完整一點讓地方覺得我還是照自己做但我知道規範更清楚一點我覺得這是可以討論的方向啦這是第一件事情好那如果再細究下去我認為還應該討論什麼呢你看看像第三條您剛剛要解釋的第三條裡面吶它的第一項第二款裡面有說流通至轄區外之天然資源或礦產品這個部分"},{"start":6831.536,"end":6858.773,"text":"市長,這個大概指的是什麼項目啊?就是譬如說水泥啊,或者是水資源啊。水資源嘛。對。好,那我今天就問你了,剛剛我們在講的這個第四條啊,其實有講到什麼礦產的開採行為等等,你說這些都可以。好,那如果是我新北市呢,我就淡水河流域,凡是經過這裡的,那我都要來,因為我要整治這個流域,所以我也來課這一個特別的地方稅,這樣可不可以?"},{"start":6859.233,"end":6876.271,"text":"報告委員,我們曾經有某個縣市政府,他們曾經想要對流通到他們轄區的天然資源,就是水資源來克稅。這個部分我們因為認定它就是違反這個不得克徵的項目。因為這樣就變成是此路是我開。"},{"start":6877.132,"end":6877.552,"text":"那所以啊"},{"start":6905.512,"end":6912.256,"text":"你就會讓人家產生覺得有大小新的感覺我同樣是維護環境啊為什麼我新北市就不行?對不對?"},{"start":6912.256,"end":6923.441,"text":"不行新北市不行是整個這樣 有這樣的狀況的都不行只是這個狀況剛剛好偏偏在新北市嘛其實不是主要是因為剛好那個天然資源它是流通的"},{"start":6924.582,"end":6949.309,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":6949.489,"end":6949.509,"text":"謝謝委員 謝謝"},{"start":6983.376,"end":6986.238,"text":"接著請李燕秀、李委員質詢謝謝教委,我請政事李政事請李次長"},{"start":7000.839,"end":7026.735,"text":"市長早安,你們是大概說部會裡面這個少數沒有交接問題的這個顯示出對於整個賴政府卓團對整個內閣來說對於你們過去的財政的穩健狀況對於三位從部長到兩位政策其實是肯定的但是對於另外一方面另外一個層面來看這個問題其實悲觀的來看呢對於未來"},{"start":7030.537,"end":7057.656,"text":"財政、財稅有沒有辦法大幅度的改革這就是我覺得接下來值得觀察的地方我今天因為只有8分鐘我不花太多時間我先第一個問題先請教政策雖然今天部長不在但是部長過去的態度我想知道接下來520之後會不會有太大的轉變前幾天我們現在的彭教授馬上520要上任的金管會的主委彭主委有跟金融工會"},{"start":7058.416,"end":7085.834,"text":"做了一個情誼之旅,裡面有提到接下來對於金融營業稅的改革的部分是不是有機會從現在的5%來做調降過去莊部長對於這件事情無論是現在的黃天牧黃主委他表態是支持的那我從媒體上新聞上查看到的就是說整個財政部對於這整件事情其實也是持開放"},{"start":7087.215,"end":7114.594,"text":"審慎的態度現在對於這件事情你們的態度到底是什麼我們還是一樣就是因為基本上金融業稅這件事情主要是因為今年年底的時候我們那個要提撥到這個特別準備金的這個2%的部分要修正了要借期了那借期以後到底金融業稅是不是要維持有關保險銀行業就是維持5%的稅率這部分就是目前業者們非常關切的議題"},{"start":7115.555,"end":7129.882,"text":"那這個部分金管會當然原來的黃天牧主委現任的黃天牧主委其實已經有具體的意見給我們財政部那你們財政部的意見到底是什麼對 那我們財政部目前是這樣基本上因為這個東西它涉及到的就是一個是國際租稅的課徵"},{"start":7132.103,"end":7132.564,"text":"所以你們也打算調整?"},{"start":7147.154,"end":7161.44,"text":"但是這個調整就是說要考慮的問題當然除了就是國際租稅的課徵方向之外呢我們還是要考量一下就是說整個國家這個整體這個金融的風險到底是不是還是有多少的衝擊需不需要做相關的調整或者是維持原來的這件事情調整了這麼久"},{"start":7168.523,"end":7188.678,"text":"沒關係,我覺得這件事情財政部討論了很久,既然你們這個團隊是無縫接軌,我希望這件事情你們可以有更具體對外的說法,因為既然彭主委看起來好像也支持過去黃庭木黃主委的想法跟做法,也接受到陳情,所以這件事情我希望有具體的答案出來競訴。"},{"start":7189.659,"end":7191.62,"text":"今天雖然部長不在,但是我相信你對於這些數字都應該非常熟悉"},{"start":7209.648,"end":7236.655,"text":"市長,我們今年的這個中央政府的債務未償餘額達到6兆3528億我們直接看數字因為我今天時間不多我們一年以上的債務是將近6兆一年以下將近3591億左右我覺得有一個數字非常奇怪我們直接看到那個表好不好來"},{"start":7238.215,"end":7240.056,"text":"我們去年齁2023年5月19號我們中央的債務未償餘額是達到6.3418億所以我們每一個國人平均我們負債中達到27.2萬但是市長你看到今年2024月30號"},{"start":7254.964,"end":7266.096,"text":"我們卻達到新高現在才4月還不到5月一般我們的債務我們的債務餘額最高都會是在5月份才到4月份我們就已經達到6兆3528億所以這邊我有幾個問題第一個問題是我們的國債怎麼會"},{"start":7273.865,"end":7274.045,"text":"但到4月30日"},{"start":7292.845,"end":7308.553,"text":"我們就已經多了300億這個才不到短短的兩三個禮拜就多了300億這個是我第一個問題第二個問題是為什麼我們債務餘額我們反而比較多但是你看我們平均債務負擔是27.1萬那我們去年是只有27.2萬這個問題點到底在哪裡是"},{"start":7318.138,"end":7322.141,"text":"我們是戶籍人數增加嗎?是疫情過戶籍人數增加,那我們每一個人的負債卻是減少,這個問題到底出現在哪裡?那為什麼我們4月19號的時候,我們才6兆3228億,我們的負債、我們債務的未償餘額,但是短短到4月30號,到兩個禮拜左右,我們就已經多了300億。"},{"start":7341.834,"end":7362.7,"text":"問題出現在哪裏?這個我跟委員報告一下,因為其實每一年國庫都是在第1、2季都是撥付各機關的日常支出那他會撥付我們中央政府軍工教育人員的年節的獎金還有地方政府的補助款還有健保的補助款還有就是相關年度出納事務整理期間的支出"},{"start":7363.16,"end":7374.224,"text":"那這段期間它的那個支出面會增加,所以那個大桌稅款還沒有入庫之前呢,我們也知道在5月之後,當我們所得算進來之後,我們就會去還款。我們就整個還,就會這個國債的狀況就會整個還款。那理事長我再請問一下,因為我們今年負債增加,那我們5月的國債中,我們還會持續破表嗎?"},{"start":7387.688,"end":7412.086,"text":"預估到5月底因為5月底通常會是最高的嘛那我們的國債中會持續破表嘛現在是27.1萬你預估應該是會往下調降嘛你預估會往下調降是還了之後是所得稅是因為所得稅收還有就是相關目前為止到那所得稅抵扣之前呢因為現在才4月30號因為還不到5月底我們國債中還會持續破表嗎"},{"start":7413.207,"end":7437.243,"text":"對,因為目前到4月的部分還有相關的稅收應該會持續的進賬有些扣繳的稅款也會增加所以我們預計是會緩降的啦應該會緩降下來因為它的趨勢其實每年都差不多那再次的我再問一個問題就是說我們今年收到眾所稅之後我們會立刻拿來還債嘛依照過去的慣例那你會拿多少出來還債"},{"start":7438.661,"end":7453.309,"text":"通常我們會按照那個稅收實收的狀況來做相關的規劃他不會馬上還債但是他可能就會看說還是我們只還一年以下譬如說我們一年以下的債務餘額是3591億只會還這個部分嗎目前已經編列的那個預算預該還債的金額我們這個當然會照他規定的規範的時程還有就是稅收入帳的時程我們會去強制還本那除了強制還本以後我們會看到還多還少可以有彈性啊"},{"start":7468.137,"end":7480.048,"text":"沒有,強制緩本原則上就是法定的,我們一定會...這是一年以下的一定要緩嗎?一年以上會多緩一點嗎?對,那如果我們稅收狀況不錯的話,我們...照理說我看起來,你講到稅收狀況我就要請問你因為我們今年時增金額是5576億元比同一期上去年的增加704億元,多了14%,將近15%左右"},{"start":7492.759,"end":7501.428,"text":"那財政部會預估說今年徵收的數字會不會有機會突破950億元甚至突破1000億元"},{"start":7502.677,"end":7504.199,"text":"目前我們預計銀索稅的稅收可能只會接近運算數,但是中索稅已經增加到704億,包含中索稅、證交稅、銀列稅"},{"start":7524.438,"end":7540.518,"text":"目前我們預估到現在為止,我們覺得我們的營業稅會增加,然後我們的高層稅可能也會增加因為今年一開始的時候莊部長來到我辦公室跟我講說我們今年應該這個超增稅收我們會好好的編列"},{"start":7542.821,"end":7543.121,"text":"所以你還是不敢講?"},{"start":7561.415,"end":7582.751,"text":"我現在第一期跟你講多了15%所以我要問你說你今年超徵稅收到底有多少?你們說今年會好好編列但第一期就增加將近15%所以次長我還是要提醒你因為你們這個團隊是所有部會裡面最無縫接軌的因為幾乎兩位次長都在部長也沒換人所以財政上財稅上面的大幅的改革"},{"start":7583.851,"end":7601.055,"text":"還有這個我覺得是外界期待看的到我們希望是在這個部分上好好的去處理國債中的部分還有今年到底明年到底要還多少錢我覺得因為我們國債、負債是越來越嚴重所以這個部分可能財政部要思考清楚好謝謝委員謝謝等一下再發言兩位到王鴻薇委員我們就休息10分鐘接下來請李崑辰李委員諮詢"},{"start":7618.513,"end":7622.216,"text":"財政部理事長財政部是難得包含部長跟次長還會繼續留在原崗位繼續奮鬥的單位所以很多政策應該可以繼續不管是延續下去或是說等一下回答的時候應該比較能夠"},{"start":7641.714,"end":7660.609,"text":"這一個具體的答案本席先請教一下次長這個113年就是今年到期的租稅減免至少有3個先請教一下次長其中一個是中小企業加薪減稅這個條例上禮拜在經濟委員會有做審查據我了解經濟委員會的委員認為誘因不夠"},{"start":7669.756,"end":7671.037,"text":"提高到180八兩百甚至兩百五都有"},{"start":7696.771,"end":7706.151,"text":"本席先請教一下,那到底你們有沒有算過就是說本來是130,現在150或是說再提高的話,那每個結局大概稅損是多少,你們有沒有算過啊?"},{"start":7707.353,"end":7731.288,"text":"這個公文報告我們有算過到目前院版的部分院版是150對但是如果要再提高的話目前是已經委員會有決議就是由經濟部他們再去按照不同的加成比例去計算他的稅收損失那稅收不是你們這邊也會知道嗎因為稅收損失我們的稅市支出評估報告一向都是由產業主管機關來做評估所以你們這邊也沒有數字比如說150到180到200"},{"start":7734.009,"end":7760.687,"text":"稅损会多少就不知道目前还由经纪部在精算那他们会仔细的去计算而且会提出那所以这150是你们提出来的版本还是经纪部我们跟经纪部一起在行政院讨论会同决定的结果好那130到150那稅损是多少呢大概是2亿左右那其实按照比例上去大概那个数字也差不多多少吧就是金额应该不是太大了对啊金额应该不是太大对啊金额不是太大嘛难怪这个"},{"start":7762.247,"end":7762.508,"text":"提案委員"},{"start":7780.294,"end":7780.334,"text":"主席"},{"start":7805.442,"end":7823.715,"text":"這個也是誘因之一啦,不然過去我看你們資料啟動的這個次數一次或是兩次啦,很少啦。那我也希望說這個如果大家不分草野都難得有這種構思的話,其實那個誘因其實要再增加的話,這個加成的應該是要比例再提高一點。"},{"start":7825.776,"end":7849.787,"text":"我想這個進入草野協商,那大概150以上是跑不掉啦,對不對?客人都是希望再提高啦,對對對對好,那第二個是齁,因為這個剛才是比較急,是到5月20號吧,5月19號是好,那這個政交稅當初減半,這是到年底,那金管會也有送出資料嘛,對不對?那這個財政部現在的看法怎麼樣?"},{"start":7850.729,"end":7868.988,"text":"財政部基本上是當然因為證交稅這個當初降稅的措施它有它的歷史背景啦當然對因為當時真的在105年那時候我們的整個證券交易市場的成交值幾乎降到1000億以下那我先講說它的效果啦因為金管會也有提出它的效果"},{"start":7869.708,"end":7898.099,"text":"提出這個措施以後因為又延長了一次那現在我們的市場上的成交率已經將近每天都到五、六千億那是不是要繼續延長那是不是要維持原來當沖降稅的一些措施這部分我們還是會請金管會提供一些比較具體的數據還有具體的這個效益我看他數據都有提供給你們了不論是這個成交稅的這個增加或是說這個教練的成長都有啦"},{"start":7898.699,"end":7919.255,"text":"對,幹事委員因為他不能只看他的證交稅的稅收增加或者是說他的成交值的增加因為當初這樣稅有另外一個負面的評估是認為覺得他對我們這個租稅公平還有對這個投機市場造成整個捐贈市場投機的因素對,所以這我們要考量儘管會考量的部分財政部有財政部考量的部分那這個齁"},{"start":7921.877,"end":7949.178,"text":"我相信應該是最後要由新的院長來做決定啦因為這個是有點政策性的決定因為兩邊的資料我都看過那其實都有道理那對於這個財政部來講的話當然是不希望說第一個把他變成常態化那第二個就是說這個稅收也不希望再減這大概是你們的立場啦那所以說這個我是相信啦這個你們應該會跟這個金管會再跟新的院長再做報告因為這個是政策的決定"},{"start":7951.824,"end":7976.233,"text":"第三個,這是年底要到的,就是有關我們貨物稅的條例。貨物稅條例本來在低底盤公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車、身心障礙者、復康巴士都免徵貨物稅到年底。現在交通部有跟你們提到說,上述我提到的這些"},{"start":7976.946,"end":7984.221,"text":"不管是跟這個常災有關係的或是跟這個節能減碳有關係的那這些貨物稅的免徵"},{"start":7985.407,"end":8002.972,"text":"因為是到年底結束嘛有沒有機會再延長這部分我們已經有請交通部表示意見因為他是有我們這些大巴士的主管機關還有衛福部我們也有請他們表示意見基本上交通部目前的考量是認為說公共汽車目前已經逐漸電動化了而且我們那個業者去購買這個電動的公共汽車本來就可以依照我們貨物稅條例12條之6他就有電動車減徵或免徵貨物稅的措施"},{"start":8014.935,"end":8038.794,"text":"所以目前交通部是比較傾向說不延長這些大型電動公共汽車的減稅措施還有它的實施年限但是呢有關復康巴士還有就是載運輪椅使用的這些車輛的部分呢衛福部跟交通部都希望我們就繼續延長它的免稅所以我剛才講的是就是只有身心障礙者的復康巴士免徵貨物稅那其他的"},{"start":8041.656,"end":8065.103,"text":"因為那個他現行就可以用我們那個電動車免稅的相關優惠那可是這個同性質的貨物稅條例12之3條啊那個電動車那為什麼電動車就可以延長就是延長4年為什麼因為那個他的電動車範圍是不限於那個大型的公共巴士他是所有的包含電動機車電動小客車是啊我聽你說說因為他為什麼要延長這個電動車減免貨物稅"},{"start":8067.244,"end":8082.978,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":8083.118,"end":8083.759,"text":"主要是電動公共汽車"},{"start":8099.437,"end":8120.288,"text":"就是電動公共汽車,是不是?油電就沒有了?因為現在我們大部分的公共巴士目前都是往電動公共汽車來發展那現在只有電動公共汽車可以減免公務稅就對了?完全免稅,但是油電混合車是可以減半課徵"},{"start":8121.869,"end":8142.407,"text":"它還是有減半課徵的相關規定因為遊覽車客運商業同業公會他們也提出陳情希望說遊覽車他們具有大眾運輸的功能希望能夠比照免徵貨物稅不知道你們有沒有收到這份陳情含因為遊覽車是不是屬於大眾運輸的車輛可能要請交通部來做一些評估"},{"start":8144.208,"end":8167.976,"text":"有關這個發展大眾運輸條例所稱的大眾運輸它是指有固定的路線、固定的班次還有固定的場站、還有固定的費率或者是說中央主管就要合併的特殊服務方式提供偏遠離島這些地區的特殊服務的公共運輸設施遊覽車是不是符合這個大眾運輸的"},{"start":8171.357,"end":8172.098,"text":"接著請王宏威王委員質詢"},{"start":8199.84,"end":8204.603,"text":"謝謝主席我請我們政務次長李次長還有複稅署署長委員好次長好"},{"start":8215.824,"end":8239.235,"text":"市長、署長好我延續一下剛才李光澤委員所詢問的那這個部分其實是確實非常重要就是有關於我們公共運輸的貨物稅的部分那我剛聽起來電動的部分因為它是有一整套有關電動車的部分可以繼續的做減免那油電的部分做減半由原來的免貨物稅變成減半是是這樣嗎?是因為油性的條例對油電也是減半課程"},{"start":8244.157,"end":8268.532,"text":"現在就是減辦,所以他可以繼續的做減辦那低頂牌公車的部分呢?低頂牌公車因為他現在基本上都是往電動公共汽車發展所以他應該會走到電動公共汽車的範圍但是如果他不是電動車的話就沒有辦法去做減免了嗎?目前就是可能交通部他並沒有建議我們繼續給他免稅"},{"start":8270.953,"end":8289.347,"text":"但是這個就是像地底盤公車我們台北市非常多我們台北市算是公車的路線而且其實服務的這個品質也都達到一定那地底盤公車一直是城市文明的一個象徵其實我會希望建議不管地底盤公車它是屬於用電動車當然這個是我們的政策"},{"start":8291.348,"end":8291.608,"text":"接下來呢"},{"start":8306.641,"end":8327.541,"text":"也要跟這個次長跟署長來討論一下剛才呢李昆政委員也特別提到的我們目前有一些租稅的減免優惠呢到了今年他就是應該出現落日那麼現在看起來呢有的可能會有比較一致性但是有一些可能兩派不同的意見那麼因為"},{"start":8329.563,"end":8344.31,"text":"市長會留任嗎?我想署長應該也暫時不會異動那部長也會留任雖然他現在人不在那我想請問一下當沖的部分剛才有特別當沖主要是金管會來希望說能夠繼續延長5年但是我覺得"},{"start":8348.132,"end":8370.345,"text":"在上一次主計處4月底公布的資本這個就是有關於我們的貧富差距擴大到66.9倍那麼非常明顯的是就是你今天如果是資本利得的部分你靠錢滾錢的人他就很容易賺錢但是如果你是靠死薪水"},{"start":8371.005,"end":8373.626,"text":"我沒有看到我們針對未來的政策也可以做些什麼樣改變"},{"start":8399.115,"end":8415.084,"text":"我們就當沖稅的部分,其實我覺得如果今天當沖的稅率的減免,如果繼續的已經到了一個落日,今年年底還要繼續調降的話,那它的"},{"start":8416.54,"end":8445.482,"text":"訴求是什麼他的論述是什麼難道我們繼續要去鼓勵資本所得然後我們並沒有對勞動所得者給他一定的優惠在股市上大家在做航海王啊上沖下洗上沖下洗那另外我也提供一些可能儘管會沒有去跟大家所講的事情事實上我們現在我們如果看到右邊我們上市櫃的當沖的成交比額及佔比"},{"start":8446.383,"end":8473.941,"text":"因為在2017七年的時候我們提出了當沖稅率的下降那麼你可以看到從一百零五年當沖的金額從2.6兆到一百零六年就暴增到6.9兆一百零七年繼續的增加到12.3兆然後接下來因為每一年就一直延長一直延長延長的結果我們這幾年在110年的時候甚至高達到47.7兆"},{"start":8476.443,"end":8493.298,"text":"所以就是說我們當沖的金額跟當沖的占比都占總體的交易的金額跟總體的占比大幅的提高所以如果今天我們是要鼓勵大家多多的去交易股票"},{"start":8494.459,"end":8505.923,"text":"上沖下洗鼓勵大家當航海王我們也知道很多的小資族因為他覺得可能有賺頭可能在上班的時候也在那邊進去出來這個鼓勵事實上已經完全達到了"},{"start":8511.379,"end":8536.307,"text":"數字會說話所以我今天也是希望我很少表態你都知道其實對於民貸來講最好都是減稅如果要加稅民貸都不願意表態但是我願意來在這邊做表態我覺得如果以鼓勵的話從金額跟佔比你們都可以告訴金管會還要怎樣你要讓它飛上天了嗎第二個很重要的"},{"start":8537.153,"end":8564.727,"text":"在台股當初的金額一直在創紀錄的狀況下股民到底有沒有獲利請金管會來給你這個資料這個是左邊的圖2021、2022、2023扣除掉所有相關的贊交稅手續費這些相關的成本股民整體平均來講有賺嗎財政部可以告訴金管會有沒有賺"},{"start":8566.36,"end":8567.181,"text":"我再給你一個最新的數據"},{"start":8590.359,"end":8609.774,"text":"這可能是很多的航海王當沖的股票族他們不知道的事情我們以2023年當沖的收益金額衰退了因為大家覺得我這樣子這麼花那麼多的時間跟那麼多成本殺進殺出殺進殺出也沒有賺多少所以衰退了兩成之多"},{"start":8610.675,"end":8618.541,"text":"然後在2023年扣除手續費跟相關的交易稅成本之後全年當沖客慘賠239億239億平均每一戶賠24萬"},{"start":8628.12,"end":8642.547,"text":"平均每戶賠24萬所以我也講說其實我不曉得金管會金管會因為希望能夠維持股市的榮景那你們財政部在反對其實我今天財政部如果我只管收稅的話我應該覺得很高興啊繼續衝啊衝啊 對不對反正我再收稅就好啦"},{"start":8645.908,"end":8668.504,"text":"反正政府是最大的莊家可是我覺得從我們在很多的稅收如果你今天是一個鼓勵的性質如果他的鼓勵已經達到你的目標而且超目標了那請問他繼續延長的道理是什麼你沒有讓金管會說清楚講明白金管會不能為了他只是維持他股市上的榮景"},{"start":8669.298,"end":8690.385,"text":"就這樣子然後另外還要賺的是什麼呢那就是交易商嘛券商賺嘛你們一直衝一直衝管你是賺是賠啊反正我手續費一直賺一直賺你們的稅一直收一直收所以我覺得你們把這些事情說清楚講明白告訴我們很多的股民我們不是不照顧股民"},{"start":8690.945,"end":8691.646,"text":"你們當沖老半天,你們都虧嘛!你看2023年虧239億,前年虧300億,幹前年2021虧你435億!"},{"start":8700.911,"end":8723.24,"text":"事實上是載的是誰?載的是這些投資戶嘛所以這點我覺得有很多你們把它講清楚說明白你的認數數把它站穩而且我覺得我們的政策我們說很多稅制需要改革我們的政策我覺得不要太偏向的一直再去鼓勵資本所得者"},{"start":8723.9,"end":8740.911,"text":"我們對薪資所得者其實這樣子兩邊的差距實在是不夠均衡同不同意這個委員提供的這些數據我們一定會列入我們跟那個就是評估的參考其實這些我們也都有跟金管會要求他們提供這些資料給我們做"},{"start":8741.471,"end":8747.955,"text":"我告訴你嘛,金管會要爭取他不會告訴你這些嗎?我告訴你嘛,他不願意提供的資料我提供給你了,是不是?金管會不會提供這些資料給你啊?因為他要降嘛,對不對?繼續降可是基於他是產業主管機關的立場,他還是要提供給我們"},{"start":8765.807,"end":8767.169,"text":"現場這一位張宏祿張委員質詢完就休息10分鐘請張宏祿委員"},{"start":8797.421,"end":8825.262,"text":"我請李政次請李次長其實我們今天想這個議題我有一個想要請教一下我們現在很多的老的房子透天的都鼓勵人家加裝電梯方便加裝老者移動那次長這些加裝的這些設備是不是增加了房屋稅"},{"start":8826.628,"end":8841.606,"text":"目前是生薑設備如果是他因為是屬於雜項工作物啦他是我們房屋稅條例裡面所說的課稅標的因為他而且他因為可以增加房屋使用價值所以基本上目前是課稅的範圍"},{"start":8843.448,"end":8868.79,"text":"但是部分呢因為這個稅基的評定呢他可以在稅基評定的時候由地方政府來做一些核實的評定如果說地方政府有考量就是是為了高齡社會的來臨還有電梯是為了行動不便的長者所必須的話他在評定的時候可以針對這個家裝電梯的住家用的房屋呢做一些核實的調整"},{"start":8869.724,"end":8895.241,"text":"所以主要是限職的調整可是這樣子變成我們不要講全國啦六都就標準不一致是不是這樣子目前因為這個部分是地方政府的權責啦我當然知道這個是地方政府的權責沒有錯但你以一樣的六都來講就好了臺北跟新北就不一樣啊共同生活圈啊你覺得我們財政部不需要去協調嗎"},{"start":8897.142,"end":8923.313,"text":"當然我們可以參考一下各縣市政府的狀況也許我們看看是不是需要就是來督導他們盡量往一致的方向來做處理我簡單說像台北市他108年之後他們召開不動產平價委員會他們就取消了五層樓以下房屋設有電梯的這個加價的規定"},{"start":8926.394,"end":8949.529,"text":"我們新北市還是有啊你只要你又鼓勵我們的人去申請補助然後去裝電梯結果裝了電梯之後我們的房屋稅又要增加那其實光新北跟台北就非常的不一致我覺得這個我們財政部是不是應該要去協調一下"},{"start":8950.833,"end":8975.055,"text":"委員讓我們來跟那個兩個縣市我們來了解一下看看是不是有辦法就是讓他們在評定的過程當中有一個一致的參考標準我必須說六都裡面的臺北新北桃園桃園也沒有臺北也沒有只有新北有那這樣子其實我覺得這個金額不大"},{"start":8976.075,"end":8976.976,"text":"好,好,謝謝委員"},{"start":9006.049,"end":9006.61,"text":"現在休息10分鐘"},{"start":9050.68,"end":9051.023,"text":"運用!"},{"start":9051.023,"end":9051.043,"text":"運用!"},{"start":9643.959,"end":9648.202,"text":"謝謝主席,主席請次長請理事長"},{"start":9673.063,"end":9678.504,"text":"國內貧富差距越來越高現在是窮更窮、富更富現在差距標破66倍相當的驚人你看一下109年"},{"start":9696.283,"end":9701.807,"text":"所得分配擬具和相對應的稅捐負擔的比例,這個藍色線是所得分配擬具紅色線是相對應的稅捐負擔簡單的趨勢看來就是所得越來越多的時候相對應的稅捐負擔差距越來越大"},{"start":9716.888,"end":9738.773,"text":"意思就是說一般百姓的心聲比如說上班族、薪資就覺得說每賺的每一分錢都要繳稅就是窮人一分錢、一分稅都跑不掉那富人賺的比較多事實上沒有相對應繳比較多稅有沒有什麼方式可以在稅制上面改革我相信我國的這個富裕階層有願意多繳一點稅為國家貢獻心力"},{"start":9742.194,"end":9768.662,"text":"但在稅制上我們有沒有什麼方式、什麼政策來改變這樣的情形?報告委員其實我們在所得存分配這件事情上面財政部是非常重視的所以近幾年除了我們之前對於這些薪資所得者還有就是中低所得者還有一些育兒家庭我們有了很多的減稅措施之外呢當然我們也希望能夠對一些就是所得比較高的人或財富比較充裕的人"},{"start":9769.202,"end":9789.829,"text":"我們希望能夠合理的課稅所以我們也實施了這個就是房地合一所的稅制還有房屋稅的差別稅率2.0的制度那另外我們也在所的基本稅的條例裡面呢針對這個如果是一般民眾的去買賣未上市貴股票的這個證券交易所的呢我們也把它納入我們基本所的課稅的範圍"},{"start":9791.569,"end":9802.097,"text":"當然這個部分的制度的改變當然希望能夠對於所得重分配這件事情能夠有一些琢磨那其實經過我們這麼多的努力其實從稅的角度來看的話像現在我們正在申報綜合所得稅我們從110年度綜合所得稅申報的狀況來看其實已經有305萬戶的民眾他是不用繳稅的"},{"start":9814.205,"end":9829.277,"text":"因為我們現在是納稅期你們之前有過一個納稅者權利保護法保護納稅人的權利所以你們都會公布每年基本生活所需費用112年現在1比3繳20.2萬元就是不用繳稅的門檻這個法律通過以後是2016年12月"},{"start":9840.285,"end":9844.45,"text":"我們立法院三次通過那同年12月28號總統公佈以後2017年12月28開始實行但到目前為止沒有修訂任何一個條文那你們有沒有做什麼相關的修法討論因為我們納保法從106年實施到現在基本上因為它運作的也算相當的順暢"},{"start":9861.167,"end":9864.188,"text":"納保法第20條有規定稅爭機關應該主動提供納稅者妥適必要的協助並以任務編組方式指定專人為納稅者權力保護官"},{"start":9879.973,"end":9884.017,"text":"目前全國納保官是誰擔任?目前納保官是由我們各基金機關資深的稅務同仁來擔任"},{"start":9898.729,"end":9919.889,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":9919.949,"end":9943.403,"text":"會不會有點求言兼裁判?不會,其實這個要跟委員報告為什麼我們是由我們自己稅務院金官的人員任務編組來擔任這個納稅者權力保護官因為呢我們現在這個讓他進入納保官的這些同仁他都是非常有經驗的資深的人而且他對稅務案件是非常了解的"},{"start":9945.024,"end":9960.714,"text":"現在像我們常常接受很多民眾的陳情案那如果說這個納保官又是你們裡面的人那很多的這個行政處跟他說課徵的決定事實上就是你們裡面的人比如說相關的課徵機關他們隨間跡徵決定了你如果叫裡面人當納保官的話這樣子我剛剛說這樣子怎麼樣保護人民的權益呢"},{"start":9969.239,"end":9971.22,"text":"我相信非常有經驗,都可以協助解決問題。"},{"start":9988.03,"end":9998.957,"text":"客觀或是公平這個是很重要的也不是從我們從您來看這是從百姓有的人也可以去跟民間訪查一下像我們接受過我們納管服務的這些納稅人或者是我們這些工會的業者記帳室、會計師工會他們都覺得納保管的服務確實是能夠給予他們很多的協助而且我們這些服務的結果"},{"start":10011.164,"end":10032.349,"text":"每一季我們都會開諮詢委員會來邀請外部的學者專家來做相關的檢視那我們服務的成果也會在每一年都會公佈公佈於我們這個機關的網站而且有報給立法院來做參考所以這個部分其實也可以我們是覺得值得可以檢視的可以經得起檢視的所以你覺得由你們自己來擔任是沒有什麼"},{"start":10033.069,"end":10033.089,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":10052.66,"end":10073.837,"text":"今天討論這個地方稅這個問題現在有地方特別稅的縣市有10個嘛桃園、高雄、宜蘭、苗栗南投、雲林、嘉義、屏東、花蓮跟台東啦我們金門縣已經也討論過要增這個觀光稅但是現在景氣非常不好這不可能啦因為我們很怕嚇走這個旅客啦但是我們金門縣常在討論的事情是說這個"},{"start":10075.638,"end":10092.475,"text":"我們的過境旅客相當多啦那也許對地方的有點貢獻但貢獻還是不足啦齁過境的這個旅客那你覺得我們旅島這個是不是可以考慮對這個過境旅客科一點過境的捐啊這一個部分你可以幫我們研究一下嗎"},{"start":10093.175,"end":10119.951,"text":"是各位報告因為我們地方稅法通則雖然有賦予地方可以開徵這個特別稅客或這個相關的權責但是呢因為我們這個通則的第三條有特別明定就是說對於這個有關這個轄區外的交易啊也就是流通至轄區外的天然資源或者是礦產品或者是說有損及國家整體利益或其他地方公共利益的事項是不宜克徵的"},{"start":10120.811,"end":10134.754,"text":"那以前金門縣也曾經有過想要對就是不只金門縣還有有些縣市呢都因為觀光的考量有些是覺得人太多了造成他們的污染啊希望能夠對過境對他們就是對過境但是過境人倒是不少而且沒事只要"},{"start":10144.656,"end":10144.676,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":10194.41,"end":10205.773,"text":"主席、各人、處列席、官員等主席,請李次長李次長,您好您好整個"},{"start":10207.728,"end":10233.309,"text":"人員的異動方面財政部是西線無戰事大家天天過好日我看到署長們大家都是笑主言開在沒有一些人事的更迭當中我想請教一下次長因為大家都講說貧富的差距越來越大"},{"start":10235.662,"end":10260.832,"text":"66.9倍其實是這個必須要正視的一個問題那最主要就是感覺像在這個集聚當中我想請問一下次長你覺得你是有錢的還是沒錢的我是中間的中間的好那其實國家要做的事情就是讓有錢人富者更富讓覺得"},{"start":10262.011,"end":10288.705,"text":"沒有錢的人他可以受到保障未來有希望希望每個人年年是好年日日是好日那要怎麼做呢我覺得就好像今天的地方的這個稅法通則一樣站在22縣市每個地方大家都想要地方自治自主財源要多一點"},{"start":10289.673,"end":10314.108,"text":"但是我希望說市長你的政策工具很多喔怎麼樣運用智慧讓全民富起來其實這很重要的我們讓貧窮縣在66.9倍當中的40%怎麼樣多鼓勵他減輕他的負擔多多照顧他讓他強起來讓他富起來簡單的講"},{"start":10318.615,"end":10336.765,"text":"你就把台灣很多的政策的這個措施變成新加坡化我請問你杜拜杜拜有沒有很多的稅我在財委會發現喔是中華民國萬萬萬的稅中華民國萬萬萬的稅這個稅那個稅一大堆的稅"},{"start":10345.455,"end":10361.583,"text":"每個地方講的大家都同理心地方錢多一點可是我覺得長此之計不是一個長遠、可長、可大、可久的方法所以市長我們之前講的娛樂稅要不要廢掉"},{"start":10363.268,"end":10364.009,"text":"一年總共加條大概17億左右"},{"start":10391.755,"end":10420.767,"text":"那在立法院所有的草野立委每個人覺得那個都不合時宜都應該廢啦我覺得在你現在這個立場的話你有沒有什麼連不連任什麼的壓力現在沒有壓力我就應該就做實事講正確的話的時候這些雜七雜八的小的東西事實上回歸到一句話台語叫 麻吉秋來春你聽得懂嗎"},{"start":10422.512,"end":10424.494,"text":"你覺得你心裡要給他多少,就給他多少,就跟他講說100塊。"},{"start":10443.035,"end":10472.381,"text":"比較需要吃多一點的,你就一樣說我不會給你五塊,但是我做大塊一點的給他,裡面還多加一點花生粉。這個就是沉知在你的一心。所以我覺得心裡會有一個平衡點。說穿了,其實大家都在要錢,重點是你要給他多少錢才可以真正照顧他。"},{"start":10474.281,"end":10496.193,"text":"所以像新北剛剛也講到財劃法統籌分配稅款臺北縣邊新北市有好一點點啦就是中央一點點憐憫關愛的眼神有多一點點但是不夠啊因為進步不多啊大家感受不到啊"},{"start":10497.29,"end":10521.738,"text":"所以你在下次從頭分配稅款的時候就應該給新北市因為400多萬人要多照顧一點有很多的長輩 有很多的老者 有很多的年輕朋友學校的問題 還有醫療的問題所以你就要多多爭取多一點來把新北市的所有市民照顧好"},{"start":10523.247,"end":10550.98,"text":"反正其他的直轄市該給的你就多給你要想想看嘛到底這個餅要怎麼做可以做得到本席也曾經提過啊保險法146條的修正啊你把對海外的投資上限往下調降一半回來的資金就多6兆多啊6兆多你怎麼用"},{"start":10552.424,"end":10581.445,"text":"財政部你們可以給建議金管會你們可以給方向高速公路可不可以拿出來當作是一個像高鐵一樣固定的收益你說錢滾錢整個台灣都熱絡起來了所以在這裡本席要拜託市長你已經沒有什麼連任不連任的這個壓力了請你冷靜"},{"start":10582.922,"end":10603.617,"text":"在最近有陸陸續續這個是新的會期有很多的修正的法案、條例通通都送過來了我們大概再過兩個禮拜以後新的閣僑也上任了以後我們希望大家是共同來努力的是做一個可大、可長、可久讓"},{"start":10605.694,"end":10614.556,"text":"台灣人民有好日子可以過的所有新的這個法案希望這是可以期待的市長不曉得你怎麼想"},{"start":10615.641,"end":10636.836,"text":"我覺得委員當然委員非常這個替全民著想也替各縣市著想但是就是我們不管是在稅制的修正或者是相關於像財劃法的修正方面我覺得我們應該要考慮的部分除了就是當然一方面是財政收入的穩健的問題另外一方面當然我們要考慮整個國家產業的經濟發展的問題當然還要考慮到一些社會正義跟租稅公平的問題還有簡化基準的問題"},{"start":10644.622,"end":10670.722,"text":"我覺得我們將來未來不管是稅制的改革或者是相關法律的修正方面,財政部會秉持這四大原則來做一些比較橫平性的考量希望能夠在...我們現在現在一共有多少啊?我們總共20個稅吧。20個喔?對,20個稅。但是各個國家都一樣,不是只有台灣合照的稅制。20個稅那麼多齁,你問113個立委齁,請你說出20個有哪20個?我看一半都講不出來。"},{"start":10674.985,"end":10690.697,"text":"你講過一半的就不錯,這個老民嘛,清稅簡正才是正辦,讓台灣人民過好日子才是大家應該做努力的方向。那我請問你,杜拜有那麼多的稅客項目嗎?"},{"start":10692.486,"end":10692.906,"text":"盡量不要太多啦"},{"start":10715.109,"end":10737.514,"text":"叫清稅減政,你看有沒有辦法降到大概10個,反正老百姓都知道我賺的錢我就繳稅,啊不要你不要跟我講那麼多的項目,我就看一個人多少或者是什麼樣的項目,我就繳了多少稅,結束。啊不要再囉嗦,哇這個稅那個稅,讓民眾有一個想法都,哇這個政府怎麼死要錢啊。"},{"start":10738.749,"end":10765.971,"text":"不過委員我們的稅客收入的課徵基本上有些是著重在所得有些是著重在財產它基本上是針對不同的所得或財產讓每一個民眾基本合理的負擔一部分的稅負比如說你所得你不是你沒有所得的人但是你有房屋的人有土地的人那你是不是應該就去繳一些財產稅就大家一起合理對國家的稅收都有一些合理的貢獻這樣子比較公平合理啦好啦就是盡量啦叫做清稅譴證謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":10769.942,"end":10773.203,"text":"主席好、各位委員、各位官員、大家早安、大家好。是不是有請我們政治,謝謝。"},{"start":10795.157,"end":10812.933,"text":"政事長,謝謝政事的辛勞。因為上次本席在這邊質詢的時候,有特別提到0403大地震之後,就是說有關於很多的災民,尤其是我們災民還有很多的家裡有一些毀損或是財產的損失,可以申請災害損失的部分。"},{"start":10817.26,"end":10844.423,"text":"財政部這邊也苦民所苦第一個就是讓災害損失的部分從15萬上升到30萬是書面審核第二個是延長申報時間從一個月到三個月那請問一下這個是只有給這個就是0403大地震之後的一個特別的臨時性的措施還是未來不管是災害損失的金額的部分跟時間的部分未來都會延長"},{"start":10845.183,"end":10861.227,"text":"我説明一下這個15萬提高到30萬是一個就是將來就是說不管任何的災害發生都是用這樣的標準那至於一個月延長到三個月呢就是看災情的狀況那這一次主要是04、03比較重大的災害發生的時候我們會延長到報損的期間但是我們也授權給各個地方各個縣市各個國稅局他們到時候看災害也許只是一個地方的災害的狀況"},{"start":10872.529,"end":10897.034,"text":"他們也可以看待災害實際發生的狀況來延長這個期間到3個月所以已經給他們彈性了所以是可以是災害損失的部分是不包含說未來是有沒有因為0403的部分未來都是有1個月到3個月對都可以有就市災情實際上的狀況可能讓他們各地方政府來做一個調整但是如果是重大災害一定是就直接延長到3個月"},{"start":10899.249,"end":10925.245,"text":"所以這個部分可能還是要跟民眾稍微說明一下那第二個部分我要幫忙就是最近這個里長的部分都很辛勞那最近內政部有一個新的規定就是說在年中的部分要發七萬五千元給所有辛勞的里長那全台的里長大概有7748位那請問一下我們測這個部分這發的這個七萬五千塊它是一個什麼樣的性質"},{"start":10926.718,"end":10944.11,"text":"他是一個什麼樣性質我們可能還要再去問一下內政部因為如果說他本身的性質是屬於像村里長事務補助費這種性質的話那因為是用於村里長辦公室的事務還有推行政令所用這部分是免稅的"},{"start":10945.111,"end":10963.643,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":10963.923,"end":10985.013,"text":"年底這個7萬5千塊的部分那我們當然我們身為民意代表都跟里長站在同一線我們希望說這個部分一定要來申請免稅因為它基本上這個跟正式報告這個它基本上發放的基準就是依照這個事務費每個月5萬塊的基準的1.5個月那事務費就您那麼專業您應該知道說事務費它是免稅的一個狀況所以這邊也要拜託財政部是不是要來申請這個"},{"start":10991.696,"end":10992.056,"text":"議員賴士葆"},{"start":11009.666,"end":11024.997,"text":"通常我們不會把認定是正語因為我這邊也是要提醒一下就是說依照這個退休公務人員他有現在我們有在補助他這個三節的慰問金他是依照這個所得稅法第4條第一項第17款的這個部分"},{"start":11026.217,"end":11045.292,"text":"是免稅的一個狀況所以我們希望說依照這兩點我們希望說里長的這個年底發放的這個七萬五千塊的部分我們希望來幫他爭取是免稅的一個部分拜託正式來協助所以我們會再洽一下內政部釐清這個相關他的性質因為這個影響到7748位里長的權益因為每一個人所的狀況都不同如果要納稅的話當然我們都"},{"start":11052.657,"end":11080.613,"text":"鼓勵大家應該合法納稅可是這個是因為里長非常辛苦給他這個錢那再來我要今天討論到一個很重要的點就是說有關於貨物稅條例的部分那本席也要跟我們正式報告一下因為在這個貨物稅條例裡面有一個非常重要就是有關於這個全國身心障礙人數現在超過121萬人有關於這個富康巴士的這個部分那本席有提出這個"},{"start":11081.613,"end":11100.22,"text":"負稅第12條第一項第一款第二幕有關於這個汽車那個大型公共汽車這個部分從到今年113年的年底就已經已經到借期了那有關於升新障礙巴士在新北市有500萬台"},{"start":11102.662,"end":11118.922,"text":"有500台,服務超過17.4萬名的身心障礙朋友,所以他出勤務的次數很多。請教一下政事,有關於身心障礙巴士的部分,是不是有機會把它延期?"},{"start":11120.109,"end":11120.429,"text":"財政部的"},{"start":11139.171,"end":11157.461,"text":"對,基本上如果主管機關的意見因為他們對他們會提出一些具體的意見那如果說他們提出以後我們會因為要延長所以這是你支持嗎對,原則上我們就是如果基本上稅損是有限的而且他的稅事支出評估確實有他的必要性的話我們會支持的"},{"start":11158.268,"end":11174.155,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":11174.355,"end":11175.115,"text":"拜託政事這邊一定要大力來鼓勵就是說把這個免稅的時間給延長"},{"start":11192.984,"end":11218.131,"text":"最後我們會聚集來做考量,謝謝,謝謝委員好,那最後還有一點時間,最後一個問題就是有關於就是上次我在這邊有問過這個,也是有質詢過的就是說現在全台灣這個老屋的數量非常的多老屋漸減的費用是不是可以把它納入這個特別扣除額裡面的災害損失中"},{"start":11219.301,"end":11247.322,"text":"上次我有提過這個問題因為就是因為大地震過後所以很多的房屋有受損那全台灣現在因為這麼多的老屋也急需說全民一起來做一些老屋建檢的一個部分那如果是因為這個地震所造成他的房屋受損然後他來做一個這個建檢的一個費用不管是這個初檢或是整個的檢查的部分那檢查的費用有沒有機會把它納入這個災害損失中"},{"start":11247.662,"end":11248.002,"text":"這已經確定了嗎?"},{"start":11264.889,"end":11294.889,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":11295.269,"end":11295.309,"text":"議員賴士葆"},{"start":11316.642,"end":11330.222,"text":"當然未來如果說每一年他還要去支付這個見檢,就是老屋見檢的費用的話,因為跟災害已經脫鉤了,那這個部分到底可不可以認定?這只要給你報告,就像我剛剛舉個例,這個花蓮天王天王,它原本是黃丹轉成綠丹。"},{"start":11331.823,"end":11331.843,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":11358.137,"end":11368.16,"text":"下一位質詢請徐宇貞徐宇貞委員徐宇貞徐宇貞徐委員不在請王世堅王委員質詢"},{"start":11395.43,"end":11419.482,"text":"謝謝主席我請財政部理事長還有這個復稅署理事長宋署長宋署長好委員好那個次長、署長三個問題第一個問題是本席在"},{"start":11420.768,"end":11433.931,"text":"前兩次會議有提一個臨時提案那就是希望說我們對於免稅額寬減額的提高那應該把消費者物價指數這個上漲累計3%這個限制啊我們把3%CPI的上漲降低啦降低這個門檻結果你的答覆齁"},{"start":11449.861,"end":11471.987,"text":"我看不懂就對,你講一大堆啦,你的意思就是說我們這些免稅寬檢的已經太多項目啦吼,那包括什麼租金的寬檢啦,長照寬檢等等你寫一堆,那些本來就寬檢啊。所以我想不懂為什麼必須要達到CPI消費者物價指數漲3%以上,這一個門檻。"},{"start":11477.185,"end":11502.914,"text":"不能降低降低到2%降低到1%都不行事實上我們全民社會的感覺啊都覺得這個CPI的調查這些指數都沒辦法全面真實的反應我們事實上生活物價的高漲調整沒辦法嘛所以"},{"start":11504.912,"end":11530.47,"text":"我跟其他我們好幾位財委會同仁才會提這個臨時提案希望你們去降低啦所以我不曉得你能不能重新再考慮你收回你那一次的答覆好不好因為那個答覆我很簡單講三個字看不懂我不懂的另外一件事情就是說奇怪你們107年的時候"},{"start":11533.479,"end":11556.371,"text":"你們刪除了復仁稅刪除這復仁稅一年將近一百億這六年下來你們刪除少增了六百億的復仁稅那時候你們很慷慨啊大筆一揮也沒有這麼多其他的林林總統什麼講一大堆理由沒有沒有那這六百億"},{"start":11560.855,"end":11561.555,"text":"委員賴士葆等22人"},{"start":11581.909,"end":11601.387,"text":"感受很深而且四月份我們調漲店家以後可能後續物價的波動還會再來一波也說不定所以我希望那個次長你們回去重新把你這個答覆收回你重新再考慮好不好"},{"start":11603.015,"end":11630.364,"text":"委員我説明一下就是目前因為我們那個3%它是一個累計數啦它等於就是從上次調整到現在已經超過3%了是啦是 這個又是你的理由一堆啦那但是因為現在一般來講從行政院主義總署認定是不是通膨他是看說一年的這個CPI有沒有超過2%這些我們都知道所以我們是覺得要論這個論不完啦這個我就是告訴你不只我"},{"start":11631.124,"end":11658.766,"text":"我們提案的幾位委員我們很坦白跟你講我就是簡單跟你說三個字看不懂那在外加三個字你現在說明我再加三個字聽不懂啊就我跟你講嘛你當時你要把富人稅刪除的時候你可曾講那麼多漏漏等沒有嘛"},{"start":11660.06,"end":11681.899,"text":"不是嗎?那600億這6年來那600億大筆一揮就沒了啊不是嗎?你為了那1000人為了那1000多個有錢人最頂端的有錢人你可以大筆一揮不用任何解釋你只有簡單幾個字我上次跟你講過我也懶得再跟你講意思就是說你要流財攬財就對了"},{"start":11690.595,"end":11693.78,"text":"另外加薪減稅你們的答覆我也是覺得"},{"start":11707.934,"end":11724.751,"text":"這個你說照院版好照院版你只要你說這個加薪進了150%內這個我們可以再討論啦但是我認為這麼多年來中段班薪資的加薪最少啦"},{"start":11726.252,"end":11735.096,"text":"在我們統計室內薪資對象中段班幾乎都低於平均薪資所以我的提案才會說我們加碼到200%限度內免稅來"},{"start":11742.511,"end":11769.916,"text":"讓企業會對中階段薪資來加稅因為根據我們的調查我們現在中位數據這個有三分之二以上的勞工領不到平均數領不到平均數所以我這個提案我希望你們能夠再次看清楚一點沒有達到平均薪資的員工加薪應該給他們更高的"},{"start":11771.087,"end":11776.77,"text":"新資費用加成率才能鼓勵企業對他們加薪嘛好不好?看不懂!"},{"start":11787.455,"end":11801.905,"text":"我覺得你們奇怪,對全體多數百姓有利的,對大多數壽星階級有利的,你們就是蜘蛛壁教,講到瘋了,對那個大金額、高金額的,你們就很慷慨就對了,我不懂你們是怎麼看法,"},{"start":11814.69,"end":11815.611,"text":"我再送你6個字啦希望你在處理這些稅率調整的時候你考慮到這6個字"},{"start":11835.882,"end":11847.485,"text":"這六個字叫見負責而秒知你們如果看到有幾人你就好像看到天一樣可不可以見負責而秒知好啦我在最後幾分鐘跟你談一下機車啦齁我搞不懂財政部這麼多年以來就是對機車族啊"},{"start":11861.308,"end":11889.166,"text":"我如果用6個字形容叫做千刀萬里追就說啊機車啊是空氣汙染的元兇每次都用這個理由說啊所以我們要加徵這個機車的貨物稅結果次長你知道這多離譜嗎機車的貨物稅現在是17%竟然比大客車15%還高那大家人盡皆知啊"},{"start":11890.828,"end":11911.047,"text":"機車排放這個廢棄絕對是遠低於大客車嘛不是嗎那結果欸你們竟然這麼那你們還是一樣推給空屋我就跟環保署吊啦我說那機車真的是這麼可惡嗎欸現在新的七期排放標準現在的機車啊電動都不講電動幾乎無污染我們就講"},{"start":11916.031,"end":11932.104,"text":"新的一樣是燃油機車來講都已經是七期排放標準他在PM2.5的排放裡面他不是我們整體環境PM2.5的元兇耶機車在整體環境裡面PM2.5只佔4.9%4.9到5.6中間我就舉一項就好"},{"start":11942.816,"end":11961.756,"text":"餐飲業10%餐廳占10%你若說要追PM2.5的元兇那應該通令我們各級縣市政府衛生局、環保局對這一部分來追更何況如果要對空屋來懲罰"},{"start":11963.613,"end":11987.85,"text":"幣也正名乎你就跟他磕人家環保署去磕這個空屋費等等這才對嘛不是嗎那你弄一個你說喔這個空屋啊所以我要跟你磕貨物稅這很奇怪嘛不是嗎你這些喔因為我時間已經到了所以次長"},{"start":11989.206,"end":12013.286,"text":"好不容易你跟署長你們都應該是留任的啦那應該是可以為國家做更多的事啦我希望你們能夠把握既然留下來了可以把好好的把你對我們委員會的一些很粗糙的答覆我們其實因為習才愛才啦其實我們的憤怒遠高於剛才這些言詞好不好"},{"start":12013.846,"end":12018.729,"text":"因為你們那個答覆太輕率了謝謝主席現在集群請黃國昌、黃偉仁謝謝主席、歡迎市長"},{"start":12043.459,"end":12069.133,"text":"前理事長市長好之前我曾經在財政委員會公開提出見據說那個足協根本沒有支付球員比賽的費用竟然去發出了偽造的扣腳平單你們上一次財政部給我一個答覆說他們已經更正了"},{"start":12069.973,"end":12086.628,"text":"我的問題是明明就沒有給錢沒有給錢還可以出去偽造的扣繳平單因為上面的那個文書內容實際上面就登載不實嘛那你們說要回去研究那現在研究的結果是什麼"},{"start":12087.367,"end":12112.981,"text":"包括委員我們北區國稅局已經有處理了他們好像據我所了解應該會從就是以不實憑證來列報這個相關的費用有違反相關的法律規定所以他們會移送檢調什麼時候移送檢調我不知道他發文了沒有他現在會透過財政部來正式發文給委員黃委員"},{"start":12114.44,"end":12139.189,"text":"什麼時候會發文?委員有關這案子在你們關心之後我們北區國會局有積極處理目前他有研擬一個處理方式到我們財政部但其實這個是沒有財政部覺醒的問題這是北區國會局可以就事實來查核的問題所以我們會再跟他溝通你要跟他溝通什麼?剛剛次長講的是不是真的?就依法移送檢調?"},{"start":12141.054,"end":12169.282,"text":"目前的具體方向是這樣目前查證的結果是這樣我希望齁發現了這種離譜的犯罪事實財政部、國稅局要有立場不能讓他們這樣胡搞瞎搞因為上次我在教育委員會質詢的時候我看體育署是明顯想要放水是明顯想要放水那當然體育署他們想要放水有他們自己深層的理由嗎"},{"start":12170.422,"end":12193.862,"text":"因為現在的體育署署長當初就是那個竹協的秘書長啊所以我說我不信任體育署自己查自己現在的體育署署長去查以前的竹協秘書長這不是太荒謬了嗎但財政部今天這樣子的答覆我覺得有做到一個行政機關依法行政該做的事情就像我上次跟你們講的嘛這麼離譜的事情"},{"start":12195.723,"end":12223.521,"text":"不是要透過好像內部喬一喬私下跟著就算了該移送檢調就要移送檢調你們正式移送檢調的時候公文一併回覆給我可以嗎?會我們現在就是其實我們北區國稅局就是要正式答覆委員只是因為當時是財委會裡面的會議紀錄所以他們才想透過財政部來做回覆進述好不好?我們會進述回覆請部長不要把公文壓到桌上喔不會我們這個部分會進述回覆"},{"start":12224.461,"end":12240.916,"text":"第二個事情我之前也在財委會公開質詢過針對2019年張瑩由李磚挪用客戶6300萬結果檢調明明都去收了那媒體爆料了以後張瑩才急急忙忙發布重訊你看這個時間序上"},{"start":12242.977,"end":12265.984,"text":"張寅我們工股行庫財政部在進行管理的時候對於工股行庫發生這麼離譜的事情那是不是有消息的遮掩有沒有依法發重訊啊這件事情我上次提出的質詢以後請問財政部有沒有請你們國庫署因為我知道國庫署的副署長應該在張寅是董事嘛"},{"start":12267.011,"end":12279.981,"text":"到底發生了什麼事?他們怎麼處理的?這樣子處理是不是符合相關的規定?財政部後續的處理是什麼?因為我完全沒有看到張瑩針對這件事情有任何公開的回覆。"},{"start":12286.395,"end":12289.537,"text":"公司發生內部舞弊、非常規交易或掏空資產的重大事件"},{"start":12312.049,"end":12335.291,"text":"這個算不算依照臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司發布重訊的相關規定現在我的問題就來了嘛張雲連自己裡面挪用客戶6300萬這種事情都可以不發重訊啊現在我在質疑的是這是不是財政部的立場這是不是國庫署的立場"},{"start":12336.86,"end":12357.647,"text":"因為這個態度奠定下去了以後以後所有不僅僅是公股行庫啊民營的銀行大家有樣學樣啊所以公股行庫在這種情況下都沒有發重訊的憑什麼要求我們其他的民營銀行在這個時候要發布重訊禮專捏去挪用了客戶6300萬捏"},{"start":12360.353,"end":12382.96,"text":"那目前國庫署的立場是說在這種情況下不用發布重訊沒有關係嗎?我們這邊的回應是說因為依照當時發生的時候他還很難判斷說他到底符不符合發布重訊的一個相關規定你們是到什麼時候才確定他有挪用6300萬?他109年7月的時候他就已經發布重訊"},{"start":12384.278,"end":12411.948,"text":"你現在在2019年6月的時候不就發現了這件事嗎?這個就是我講的point阿你一定要等到媒體爆料的時候然後你們才發了遲來的証訊問題是這本來就是上市公司自己要揭露的事情阿你現在在跟我講的事情是在發布証訊以前張宜內部還沒有確定有的6300萬被挪用是真的嗎?"},{"start":12414.785,"end":12442.727,"text":"國庫署好來沒有關係下一個案子2024年彰化銀行發現了又有一樣但是也沒用客戶的款項利用他人的帳戶移轉客戶的資金向客戶借貸從事不當的投資有沒有向財政部通報有沒有移檢調有沒有發訊息"},{"start":12445.57,"end":12467.824,"text":"有,他這個部份在1月24號有發重大我發到財政部發給財政部以後呢,他有發重訊嗎?你剛不是跟我說要發線了以後才能發那我現在就貼啊張宜內部的通告給你看啊,他們發線了啊有處分了啊有發重訊嗎?這個發布重訊的部份目前"},{"start":12475.424,"end":12481.689,"text":"先停一下齁我們的公股行庫有沒有依照證書、證交所的規定發訊息財政部的立場是這件事情財政部管不到,是這樣嗎?"},{"start":12500.632,"end":12525.775,"text":"如果連我們自己的公股、黃褲都沒有依照證交所相關的規定該發訊息的時候發訊息,你要怎麼去要求其他的上市櫃公司?這個不是最基本的嗎?首先張瑩她是依據她相關規定判斷,但是我們也會事後再督導一下張瑩這邊有沒有確實的落實所以你們督導的結果是怎麼樣?"},{"start":12528.049,"end":12550.138,"text":"你們督導的結果如何?目前我們看過他們的相關資料喔,他們自己的內部資料裡面是都有定相關的一些發生…我已經貼出來給你看了!我已經貼出來給你看了!張瑩自己已經認定了!我現在的問題是為什麼這種事情我們的公股、航庫可以遮掩?為什麼可以不用發訊息?"},{"start":12551.943,"end":12579.15,"text":"這是我的問題啦因為主席站起來了他一直跟我示意我時間到了請財政部跟張穎一起書面回覆好嗎?謝謝委員可以這個標準 這個標準的實踐很重要喔如果連我們的公股行戶自己都不守規矩財政部一句話都不吭我們以後如何要求其他上市貴公司發生舞弊的時候要依法發訟訊需要多久的時間?一個禮拜之內可以嗎?"},{"start":12581.084,"end":12584.666,"text":"一個禮拜之內可以嗎?一個月的時間太長了,請主席才是好,時間到,兩個禮拜資料補充請兩個禮拜之內把東西交出來"},{"start":12605.947,"end":12634.355,"text":"好,下一位質詢請洪孟楷委員,洪孟楷,洪孟楷,洪孟楷委員不在,請鍾嘉斌鍾委員質詢主席,在場的委員先進,如果還有的話,列席政府金融市場官員,會長工作夥伴,記者媒體林先生,有請財政部理事長謝謝理事長"},{"start":12637.828,"end":12664.757,"text":"市長好,我們最近常常就財政部有關於稅負公平跟照顧弱勢的來跟您進行請教那我們來今天看一看今天這個案例其實我很少看到財政部對立法院修法你們只有簡單兩頁那看起來財政部對於這樣的修法似乎意見是沒有太多意見那我請教一下目前政府各地方政府開徵特別稅有徵也有行政輸送的有哪幾件"},{"start":12665.53,"end":12677.177,"text":"目前只有花蓮縣政府的這一件那這一件的主要標的是什麼?他是礦石開採特別稅他在2009年然後到2012年他公布自治條例是4年4年的期程是根據我們的規定的嘛"},{"start":12687.083,"end":12708.971,"text":"他是可以4年,對沒錯,特別稅就是14年嘛,然後呢他在2016年廢止嘛,廢止之後呢他原來10塊錢變成70塊錢,為什麼他要提前廢止?那是不是提前廢止之後他就可以從10塊調到70塊?是這個原因嗎?從10元調到70元,是不是受他自己自治條例的限制?"},{"start":12710.055,"end":12737.094,"text":"對,他自己的自治條例對他自己的自治條例規定了他就不能夠調超過百分之三十是不是這樣?沒有,因為我們那個因為他自治條例他是依照地方稅法通則第三條的規定第三條不是第四條嘛對,第四條才有中央立法的地方稅才會有百分之三十中央立法的地方稅是像什麼?房屋稅房屋稅、地價稅還有使用牌照稅對的所以他自己的自治條例是要根據第三條"},{"start":12737.714,"end":12741.475,"text":"因為他要調整稅額或者是要訂立新的稅額他必須要把原來的自治條例廢止然後重新新訂自治條例要經過議會的通過才可以執行"},{"start":12765.514,"end":12793.917,"text":"所以說他提前廢止他公布一個新的這個新的就從10塊到70塊了對不對所以他因為他是根據第3條不是第4條所以他可以這樣有權這樣做是這樣嗎?依照目前的第3條是這樣那我來問一下那現在我們來看一下齁全國各地方政府只有花蓮有這樣的一個稅收嘛對不對而且你看喔哇這個金額南投還有一些啊其他的都在30、30左右"},{"start":12795.267,"end":12798.491,"text":"請問一下我們看到可是他這個行政訴訟他連敗20次欸"},{"start":12813.917,"end":12842.739,"text":"沒有啦,大概就是八件吧。八件,二十四全部敗訴。那為什麼法院判他敗訴?法院判敗訴的原因,第一個就是他,因為法院,行政法院對於我們第三條、第四條的適用範圍,他們可能有一些誤解,誤以為他是要受到第四條30%的限制。可能法院上認知上跟我們立法者或者我們執法者有點不太一樣。但是,我覺得這要小心啦。"},{"start":12843.439,"end":12861.534,"text":"因為全國只有花蓮產大理石,對不對?花蓮是大理石主要礦區,全國用的水泥是不是來自於花蓮為主?礦場這樣的市場嘛,對不對?那如果說他因為調整這個稅造成建材上漲,房價會不會上升?"},{"start":12864.022,"end":12882.756,"text":"有沒有評估過這個情況?不一定,但是有這個可能我舉個例子好了啦講金門高粱啦如果說今天全台灣就有個金門可以那裡的水可以釀高粱酒大家喜歡的高粱酒如果說不是金門縣政府投資一個金酒公司是金門縣政府根據第三條來對"},{"start":12884.978,"end":12911.416,"text":"所謂有金門釀高粱酒的酒廠課稅那我請教一下齁如果說金門縣政府把這個第三條的這個特別稅提高很多你覺得全國的金門高粱會不會漲價兩個是不同的東西你先問我先就這個部分高粱酒來問你嘛當然我知道高粱酒漲價你買不起就不要喝算了嘛對不對也不是壞事啦但是水泥不一樣所以我要說的是說其實財政部從稅理上"},{"start":12912.957,"end":12926.827,"text":"從第3條第4條分際上你們對於這樣的修正其實你們是尊重我們立法院的決定其實你們認為沒有什麼好反對的但是本要提醒你請問一下你看看花蓮先生從10塊到70塊他收的這些錢有沒有對於開礦的礦區的周邊的居民與回饋"},{"start":12931.75,"end":12936.412,"text":"你有沒有去考察這一點?那他有做嗎?你們沒有真正去了解?好,我覺得財政部管稅不是管怎麼收啦,其實你們也會考量到稅務公平看怎麼用"},{"start":12950.649,"end":12967.207,"text":"如果說今天花蓮縣政府是可以扣這麼多的稅收,占我們地方特別稅的一半這樣的稅收,是因為它有獨佔了一個全台灣的花蓮的礦產。這樣的礦產產出來的大理石還有包括它的水泥,全台灣市場在使用,這是花蓮的貢獻。"},{"start":12968.444,"end":12997.09,"text":"可是這個貢獻花田政府拿去了真正承受礦區的環境成本的是它的地區的居民所以如果這樣的稅我們在稅則上認同由地方政府來自行調整但是我們有沒有對於地方政府有沒有善盡兩部分這樣的價格會不會造成全台灣消費者的負擔以及這樣的收入有沒有反映到礦場周邊居民的回饋上您覺得這兩個要不要評估"},{"start":12999.478,"end":13021.568,"text":"其實我們現在在審查他們這些地方自治條例的時候報到財政部來審查的時候我們都有要求就是各縣市政府第一個你一定要舉辦公聽會然後要跟這個當地的影響的利害關係人進行相關溝通另外就是他的那個成本效益怎麼分析做些什麼相關的用途其實他都要提供給我們參考的"},{"start":13022.768,"end":13039.6,"text":"主席站起來我這兩個要求第一個請你就如果說這樣的稅經過修法後地方政府可以依他的意思來調整那造成了整個全國建材的波動財政部要會同經濟部趕快去評估可以嗎"},{"start":13041.071,"end":13061.842,"text":"其實我們在會議當中都經濟部我們在會前審查自治條例的時候有有有請他們表示意見啦因為今天房價的事情全部都關注好不好第二個對於花蓮縣政府他們過去公聽會上有沒有將這個收益反映在受到礦場環境成本"},{"start":13063.183,"end":13063.643,"text":"委員賴士葆"},{"start":13078.908,"end":13104.963,"text":"這個可以跟委員報告一下,我可不可以再說一分鐘就好,就是他因為他基本上他就是一個現庫的收入,現庫的收入就像他們是統收統支,他們去做相關的支出,那到底是不是有一定要回饋到那個礦區中間的財源?當然不一定啦,因為他不是專款專用的概念啦,他是一個專門的概念。所以請財政部就這邊,請地方政府要提出一個言析,讓我們大家都知道,好不好?這個我們可以請歡迎政務司法部長,謝謝。"},{"start":13112.112,"end":13112.132,"text":"致謝"},{"start":13126.044,"end":13141.264,"text":"今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢,現在進行討論事項之處理。請議事人員宣讀地方稅法通則第四條條文修正草案兩案之提案內容,宣讀完畢後進行協商。"},{"start":13144.997,"end":13167.093,"text":"地方稅法通則第四條條文修正草案委員賴士寶等人提案對照現行條文除現行法第一項其修正為中央立法之其與同現行條文委員傅崐萁等人提案對照現行條文除現行法第一項其修正為中央立法所定並增列第三項"},{"start":13168.394,"end":13181.97,"text":"第三條直轄市政府、縣市政府、鄉鎮市公所一第二條規定,開徵之特別稅客、臨時稅客或附加稅客不適用第一項之規定,其與同縣刑條文。宣讀完畢"},{"start":13200.651,"end":13204.378,"text":"委員會委員長"},{"start":13227.858,"end":13252.21,"text":"委員賴士葆等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第4條條文修正草案．事由．審查本院委員賴士葆等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第4條條文修正草案．事由．審查本院委員賴士葆等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第4條條文修正草案．事由．審查本院委員賴士葆等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第4條條文修正草案．事由．審查本院委員賴士葆等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第4條條文修正草案．事由�"},{"start":13265.265,"end":13291.586,"text":"財政委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第4條條文修正草案．財政委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第4條條文修正草案．財政委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第4條條文修正草案．財政委員賴士葆等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第4條條文修正草案．財政委員賴士葆等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第4條條文修"},{"start":13292.398,"end":13293.662,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":13307.158,"end":13323.552,"text":"委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議"},{"start":13323.592,"end":13351.385,"text":"委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第4條條文修正草案．事由．審查本院委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等22人分別擬具:「地方稅法通則第4條條文修正草案．事由．審查本院委員賴士"},{"start":13359.493,"end":13361.976,"text":"主席響鐘"},{"start":13433.151,"end":13438.573,"text":"請議員宣讀協商結論先讀協商結論地方稅法通則第4條條文修正草案2案保留並案送院會協商先斷閉"},{"start":13459.246,"end":13485.399,"text":"本次會議若如下決議一、說明及詢答完畢二、委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於一周內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其所定委員伍麗華、王美惠、徐宇貞所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆"},{"start":13486.96,"end":13511.642,"text":"地方稅法通則第四條條文修正草案兩案全案審查完均並按擬具審查報告提報院會討論院會討論前需交由黨團協商院會討論時有本席補充說明另外"},{"start":13514.685,"end":13528.953,"text":"請問各位委員對以上決議有無異議?沒有異議,通過另外本次會議亦是入授權由本席核定後確定請問各位委員有無異議?"},{"start":13530.029,"end":13541.599,"text":"沒有異議通過本次會議議程已進行完畢,如果有不在場委員補題書面質詢,一併列入記錄刊登公報,並請議事人員協助處理。散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}