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11:49:34","會議時間":"2025-01-10T11:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第3次全院委員會會議（事由：審查「憲法訴訟法」修正第四條、第三十條及第九十五條條文覆議案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.037218750000001,"end":15.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.910343750000003,"end":23.031593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.774093750000002,"end":25.292843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.782218750000002,"end":29.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.81534375,"end":36.869093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.52721875,"end":41.627843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.28596875,"end":46.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.04471875,"end":53.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.67659375,"end":71.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.88034375000001,"end":76.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.99784375,"end":79.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.01846875000001,"end":82.60034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.07284375,"end":87.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.05159375000001,"end":84.67596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.51096875,"end":88.65846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.60346875,"end":91.02096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.64534375000001,"end":92.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.99534375,"end":96.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.68659375,"end":100.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.85909375,"end":102.83346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.42409375000001,"end":104.68971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.31409375000001,"end":113.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.51096875,"end":116.11409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.73846875000001,"end":120.90659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.07534375,"end":123.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.48409375000001,"end":127.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.07846875,"end":140.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.54471875000002,"end":142.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.11409375,"end":144.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.93659375000001,"end":146.15159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.11346875,"end":149.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.89784375000002,"end":150.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.16346875000002,"end":152.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.95221875000001,"end":159.28034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.51659375,"end":185.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.71909375,"end":189.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.52034375000002,"end":191.59596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.49034375000002,"end":193.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.51534375,"end":196.23659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.08034375000003,"end":203.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.53909375,"end":216.65534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.51596875,"end":225.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.66659375,"end":236.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.50034375,"end":240.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.14096875,"end":246.97971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.46909375,"end":252.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.93221875,"end":255.31596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.68721875000003,"end":257.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.48846875000004,"end":259.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.99034375,"end":264.49596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.73221875,"end":269.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.21659375,"end":272.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.95034375,"end":274.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.72221875,"end":276.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.71346875,"end":288.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.18409375000005,"end":293.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.17909375,"end":294.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.59659375,"end":297.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.11096875000004,"end":299.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.38909375000003,"end":301.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.85721875,"end":304.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.54034375000003,"end":309.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.68721875,"end":311.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.96534375000005,"end":313.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.15909375,"end":318.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.97596875,"end":325.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.17846875000004,"end":326.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.29221875,"end":328.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.46471875000003,"end":329.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","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我們去看到藍白所修的憲法訴訟法第30條第30條的架構 誠如我剛剛講的 要有10個人才能組成會議要違憲審查是9個人 那它的條文又有講到說 合憲的部分是7個人"},{"start":217.597,"end":246.723,"text":"所以這樣的一個條文基本上藍白是站在自己身為立法委員的立場去思考這樣的修法所以藍白國民黨跟民眾黨他們希望我修出來的法案不要被大法官申請不要被憲法法庭判決違憲所以要有九個人九個大法官才能夠說違憲合憲只要七個人就是所謂過半之後七個人合憲七個人"},{"start":247.883,"end":256.83,"text":"這個矛盾點就是說國民黨民眾黨只想到自己再申請釋憲沒有想到的是如果人民要申請釋憲"},{"start":258.533,"end":287.472,"text":"站在人民的角度我要申請釋憲我要九個人才會變成違憲七個人合憲所以人民既然申請釋憲他是希望憲法法庭判決違憲結果違憲比較困難合憲比較簡單所以你站在立法院跟站在人民的角度不一樣結果你創造出了一個合憲跟違憲是不同難度的一個判決的一個態樣"},{"start":289.235,"end":293.082,"text":"所以在這個情況之下條文本身就構成了違憲"},{"start":295.669,"end":316.068,"text":"所以我們也再一次的呼籲也許我們今天的表決我們民進黨我們51票都投下去我們還是無法阻擋藍白還是執意要這樣的迴憲亂政我們也希望未來我們的大法官可以大法官市至371號601號"},{"start":320.812,"end":330.382,"text":"台湾的权力不可以就这样干部党 干部共产党 我们下去拜托大家 人下的目标我们全部抛下战胜架"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2025-01-10T11:44:14.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-10T11:44:14.859000+08:00","text":"主席、各位同仁。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2025-01-10T11:44:15.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-10T11:45:10.561000+08:00","text":"我們現在在處理由行政院針對憲法訴訟法立法院通過的法律的覆議案，我們可以請求每一位立法院同仁，我們大家都有憲法義務，這個憲法義務就是我們必須捍衛人民的權利、人民在憲法上的權利，今天憲法訴訟法的條文架構，它必須要有10個大法官才能組成憲法法庭，違憲審查必須要有9個大法官才能做出違憲的判決，也就是說，依現行只有8個大法官的情況之下，沒有辦法組成10個大法官，也就是人民向憲法法庭提出救濟的機會，會在這個法案生效之後，這個救濟的機會就不見了。","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2025-01-10T11:45:13.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-10T11:45:35.065000+08:00","text":"既然立法院看到這樣的一個危機，行政院已經提出了這樣的覆議，我們希望等一下透過投票的時候，所有的立法委員一定要投下贊成票，讓行政院覆議，因為覆議案是讓立法委員有一個彌補錯誤的機會。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2025-01-10T11:45:37.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-10T11:46:20.396000+08:00","text":"我在早上發言的時候，我有講到會計法的修法，當時的修法為了要處理公教人員的特別費，或者是他的研究費用，當時少了公教的「教」，少了教授的部分，所以立法委員在最快的時間內完成覆議，把錯誤補上去，本來覆議就是讓我們彌補錯誤，我們不能讓臺灣未來沒有憲法法庭，我們不能讓未來人民的救濟就這樣斷送在我們這一次違憲的立法。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2025-01-10T11:46:21.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-10T11:46:46.098000+08:00","text":"而且這樣的立法，我們也造就了有史以來最退步的一個憲法法庭，我們看到從過去到現在，1952年的大法官會議，違憲判決所需要的比率是50%；1959年違憲判決所需要的比率是75%；1993年是44%；2022年是50%。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2025-01-10T11:46:46.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-10T11:47:12.528000+08:00","text":"而這一次藍白修惡的憲法訴訟法，如果是只有10個人出席，要有9個人同意才可以，它的違憲難度是90%，比戒嚴時代還要困難的釋憲聲請。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2025-01-10T11:47:12.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-10T11:47:18.554000+08:00","text":"此外，這一次的修法本質上也已經違憲，本質上違憲是為什麼呢？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2025-01-10T11:47:19.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-10T11:47:35.829000+08:00","text":"我們看到藍白所修的憲法訴訟法第三十條，第三十條的架構誠如我剛剛講的，要有10個人才能組成會議，要違憲審查是9個人，但它的條文又有講到合憲的部分是7個人。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2025-01-10T11:47:37.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-10T11:48:26.298000+08:00","text":"所以這樣的一個條文，基本上藍白是站在自己身為立法委員的立場去思考這樣的修法，因為國民黨跟民眾黨希望自己修出來的法案不要被憲法法庭判決違憲，所以規定要有9個大法官才能夠宣判違憲，但是合憲只要7個人，就是所謂過半之後7個人，合憲只要7個人，這個矛盾點就是國民黨、民眾黨只想到自己在聲請釋憲，沒有想到的是，如果人民要聲請釋憲，站在人民的角度，聲請釋憲要9個人才會變成違憲，7個人合憲。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2025-01-10T11:48:26.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-10T11:48:53.082000+08:00","text":"人民既然聲請釋憲，他是希望憲法法庭判決違憲，結果違憲比較困難，合憲比較簡單，你站在立法院跟站在人民的角度不一樣，結果你創造出了一個合憲跟違憲的判決是不同難度的態樣，在這個情況之下，條文本身就構成了違憲。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2025-01-10T11:48:58.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-10T11:49:29.721000+08:00","text":"也許今天的表決，民進黨51票都投下去，我們還是無法阻擋藍白依然執意要這樣的毀憲亂政；我們也希望未來大法官可以依大法官釋字第371號、第601號繼續來捍衛，臺灣的權利不可以就這樣讓國民黨、讓民眾黨惡搞下去，拜託大家，等一下的覆議案，我們全部投下贊成票！謝謝。","quality":0.624},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-10T11:49:30.221000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-10T11:49:33.078143+08:00","text":"謝謝蔡易餘委員的發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-10T11:49:33.378143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-10T11:49:38.806714+08:00","text":"接下來請徐巧芯委員發言，鍾佳濱委員請準備。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}