{"error":false,"id":["158827"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":158827,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158827","日期":"2025-01-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-36-28","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":28,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-01-13T10:06:58+08:00","結束時間":"2025-01-13T10:16:32+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:34","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/293c543958a38e471e1fbdc31ae4907eb1c135165b29e3b3f85eb60e410638a84763dcd5b5be02255ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"10:06:58 - 10:16:32","會議時間":"2025-01-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院、法務部率所屬相關單位列席就「號召民眾上街對抗司法審判者為妨害司法公正罪之現行犯？」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「律師法第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「律師法第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等23人擬具「律師法第九條條文修正草案」案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":7.43909375,"end":9.71721875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":10.662218750000001,"end":11.89409375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":15.134093750000002,"end":16.06221875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":16.56846875,"end":16.63596875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":16.63596875,"end":94.85159375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":16.82159375,"end":17.445968750000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":96.45471875000001,"end":146.75909375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":125.29409375,"end":125.56409375000001,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":146.75909375,"end":146.87721875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":147.24846875,"end":185.57159375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":185.70659375000002,"end":185.75721875000002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":185.77409375000002,"end":194.14409375000002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":194.43096875,"end":197.82284375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":197.99159375000002,"end":202.44659375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":202.83471875,"end":231.52221875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":232.28159375,"end":260.10846875000004,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":238.28909375,"end":238.57596875000002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":260.32784375,"end":286.09596875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":286.09596875,"end":286.14659375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":286.28159375,"end":293.43659375000004,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":294.09471875,"end":295.76534375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":294.11159375,"end":294.83721875000003,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":295.03971875,"end":298.48221875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":296.92971875,"end":297.53721875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":298.48221875,"end":298.51596875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":298.51596875,"end":298.56659375000004,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":298.73534375,"end":299.12346875000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":299.24159375,"end":304.99596875000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":310.24409375000005,"end":328.67159375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":327.05159375,"end":334.57784375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":333.75096875,"end":336.87284375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":336.87284375,"end":336.92346875000004,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":336.92346875000004,"end":336.97409375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":336.97409375,"end":385.03409375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":385.03409375,"end":385.70909375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":385.70909375,"end":385.74284375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":386.60346875000005,"end":399.81659375000004,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":399.98534375,"end":417.97409375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":417.97409375,"end":418.34534375000004,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":418.95284375,"end":459.33471875000004,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":459.97596875000005,"end":471.95721875000004,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員俊宇","start":472.27784375000005,"end":508.609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謝謝主席 我們請鄭部長有請鄭部長部長早"},{"start":17.819,"end":38.612,"text":"部長我們今天要審查的是行政院以及兩位委員所提出的律師法第九條的修正草案那中關律師法自民國三十年制定公佈以來已經有過十七次的修正那每一次的修法也能夠再思索律師的定位以及律師所肩負的使命是什麼"},{"start":39.252,"end":62.134,"text":"那本法在前次112年6月公布的時候總共修正了五條並增訂一條的這個條文那當時是為了配合司改國事會議的這個議題以及公部門法律諮詢和訴訟的這個需求所以增訂有關公職律師的定義加入和退出公會等等那相關的這個規範內容"},{"start":64.356,"end":86.978,"text":"如果是針對第九條的部分則要回溯到108年時律師法的這個大幅修正但這個條文在實施後實務上是因為出現核種那當初未能設想的狀況才導致在五年後經過法務部的這個研議再提出對於該條文的修正草案那我想就叫我們部長"},{"start":87.618,"end":116.532,"text":"關於本次第九條的這個修法背景和實務的這個需求是不是可以做簡單的說明謝謝委員這次一個修法主要是還是要解決剛剛委員有提到的就是沒有加入律師公務的律師設計步伐的時候呢那沒辦法移付懲戒的一個實務問題那這次事實上整個社會上有這樣的一個聲音所以我們這次才在就"},{"start":117.372,"end":146.189,"text":"就對這次修法律師未加入律師公會而設有第五條第一項第一款的不法性或第八款的這個兩款的這個行為這個都是屬於因為他有律師證書但是他沒有加入公會的一個處理那這個是不是要廢止那個律師的一個證書這個是律師法裡面是不是有這樣立法上的一個不足的地方我們只有一個補漏的一個做法所以這個修法的背景是這樣的"},{"start":148.792,"end":166.451,"text":"這次我們審查的三個草案版本內容均相同在條文上應該沒有太大的問題主要是想針對本法修正上路或實務上可能遭遇的狀況來救教部長在草案的第九條第二項當中"},{"start":167.552,"end":182.407,"text":"對於律師有職業和沒有職業分別有規範我簡報表格所示假使我們同樣以有本法第五條第一項第一款的情勢來看職業的律師應該"},{"start":186.792,"end":202.086,"text":"這個一副律師懲戒委員會處理並且依照本法的這個規定結果可以這個是接受嚴禧警告還有申戒停止執行職務或是除名"},{"start":202.927,"end":229.027,"text":"那並非一定是除名啦那反倒是律師與這個非職業期間有同樣的這個情勢那法務部就應該廢止其律師的證書啦那直觀上來看似乎在這個未職業期間比職業期間所受的這個處分更加的嚴峻那我想請教部長條文的這個設計是出於何種的考量規範的這個輕重應該怎麼來橫評"},{"start":233.299,"end":259.873,"text":"這個還是要因為它是屬於因為這個一定要加入工會那你不加入工會就是執行律師的一個業務那這個事實上這個是會影響到整個人民的權利司法的運作而且律師在執業的時候本來在工會上有一定的要遵守相對規則那你現在沒有加入工會反而這個制約的作用就會變成很薄弱"},{"start":260.413,"end":285.736,"text":"那沒辦法去做也影響到他如果說有違法或不當的行為律師公會反而沒辦法去對他做一個處置就剛才像委員講的就是去討論懲職或懲戒等等的這些的一個做法所以在整個一個源頭那我們是說要廢止律師正式但是這一修法我們是也要徵詢尊重那個律師權利會的一些的一個意見"},{"start":286.737,"end":302.182,"text":"因為部長我的意思是說為什麼他在這個沒有職業期間比這種職業期間的這種規範所受的處分更加的嚴峻這好像蠻奇怪的這個最主要是還是沒有加日工費的一個"},{"start":310.287,"end":335.481,"text":"最主要還是這個是可能影響到人民的一個權利跟司法制度的一個運作所以這次才會做一個但是我們還是有徵詢全聯會的一個意見然後才會做一個律師這邊是有一個把關部長我覺得這個問題還是沒辦法解釋清楚是不是這個會後再去做詳盡的了解我們再做一個書面的一個報告好"},{"start":338.022,"end":362.69,"text":"那連動到的是這個草案當中的第三項規定前兩前前項第二款的這個情勢法務部應該徵詢全國律師聯合會的意見也就是針對律師會職業期間的這種行為如果有本法第五條第一項第一款或是第八款的這種情形法務部應該先徵詢全國聯合會全國律師聯合會的這個意見但這個徵詢的效果為何如果雙方"},{"start":367.791,"end":385.573,"text":"意見不一致 法務部還是會能夠來廢止證書是不是表示徵詢意見只是形式上作為參考而已那有關徵詢全國律師聯合會的部分應該如何來發揮實質的這種功能及效果"},{"start":387.03,"end":416.17,"text":"這部分我想我們是的確是我們是一個徵詢的一個效果那當作我們廢紙律師證書的一個重要的一個參考那剛才委員有提到就萬一我們是全聯會的意見跟我們當時要廢紙這部分有不同那我想這個就個案的一個問題我想個案的情形不一樣那如果說我們全聯會他的那個徵詢的他是反對廢紙那這部分我想這部分我們就個案來做一個評估處理"},{"start":417.09,"end":441.598,"text":"好 那另外是我們近年有傳出 近年有傳出許多這個律師涉嫌勾結詐騙集團那洩漏偵查秘密的這種相關案件但是以現行規範限於特定的這種犯罪最輕本刑一年以上才可以這個負懲戒停止職務 那先前也有已經"},{"start":442.778,"end":458.725,"text":"這個委員提出相關的這個案件要對於律師涉詐的這種情勢給以更重的這種懲罰那我們法務部是否也會針對律師涉入詐欺的這個部分來修法加以懲戒和停止的規範"},{"start":460.331,"end":484.056,"text":"好 謝謝 那我想這個的確是委員點出這個問題那本部有研理律師法第七條跟第七十四條的一個修正草案那將擴大律師經提起公訴的就是類入叫懲戒委員會停止執行職務的罪名範圍所以這部分是我們罪名有事做一個放寬啦齁做一個放寬啦齁 那個 那把那個"},{"start":484.976,"end":512.695,"text":"放寬為像放那個最終本來五年以上之貪污行賄侵佔詐欺背信或罪金本一年以上有期之罪修正為只要故意犯最終本以上之罪這就可以了另外停止的這部分我沒有次次的一個限制那我想這個草案那這部分我們盡管辦理這個預計在下個月接下來在一月中會送行政委員來做一個審議"},{"start":514.529,"end":523.125,"text":"部長我想請教一下我們是不是可以朝向說假設這個律師一旦涉案就會先暫停來執業有沒有可能"},{"start":527.959,"end":549.913,"text":"這部分我們本部沒有決定權,這個要移送那個律師懲戒委員會來做一個審理好,那當然我們也希望這部分能夠有這個院版的我們剛剛講的這個部分能夠有院版的這個相關的草案一併送審那我想請問部長有關這個研議的這個部分我們部內有沒有再開始進行這個草案"},{"start":552.648,"end":572.048,"text":"草案也要送行政院對 部內 我說部內有沒有開始開始在有有有 已經完成了那一月中就會送行政院來審議了一月中對 就是這個大概這個月好 那我們也期待啦我們期待說相關的這個修法內容能夠符合民眾的期待啦好 謝謝 謝謝部長好 謝謝委員好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝鄭部長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:07:06.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:07:06.615000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們請鄭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-13T10:07:06.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:07:07.316000+08:00","text":"有請鄭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:07:07.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:07:07.456000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:07:07.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:07:07.456000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:07:15.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:07:36.612000+08:00","text":"部長，我們今天要審查的是行政院以及兩位委員所提出的律師法第九條的修正草案，綜觀律師法自民國30年制定公布以來已經有過17次的修正，每一次的修法也能夠再思索律師的定位以及律師所肩負的使命是什麼。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:07:37.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:08:00.114000+08:00","text":"本法在前次112年6月公布的時候，總共修正了5條，並增訂1條的條文，當時是為了配合司改國是會議的議題，以及公部門法律諮詢和訴訟的需求，所以增訂有關公職律師的定義、加入和退出公會等等相關的規範內容。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:08:02.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:08:23.136000+08:00","text":"如果是針對第九條的部分，則要回溯到108年時律師法的大幅修正，但這個條文在實施後，實務上因為出現何種當初未能設想的狀況，才導致在五年後，經過法務部的研議，再提出對於該條文的修正草案？","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:08:23.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:08:32.641000+08:00","text":"我想就教部長，關於本次第九條的修法背景和實務的需求，是不是可以做簡單的說明？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:08:35.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:08:46.508000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，這次修法主要還是要解決剛才委員有提到的，沒有加入律師公會的律師涉及不法的時候沒辦法移付懲戒的實務問題。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:08:47.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:09:15.924000+08:00","text":"事實上整個社會有這樣的聲音，所以我們這次修法對律師未加入律師公會而設有第五條第一項第一款的不法性或第八款兩款的行為，這個都是屬於有律師證書，但是沒有加入公會的處理，這部分是不是要廢止律師的證書？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:09:15.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:09:24.169000+08:00","text":"這是律師法在立法上不足的地方，我們是補漏的作法，所以修法的背景是這樣的。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:09:26.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:09:42.489000+08:00","text":"好，這次我們審查的這三個草案版本內容均相同，在條文上應該沒有太大的問題，主要是想針對本法修正上路後實務上可能遭遇的狀況來就教部長。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:09:42.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:10:40.922000+08:00","text":"在草案的第九條第二項當中，對於律師有執業和沒有執業分別有規範，如我簡報表格所示，假使我們同樣以有本法第五條第一項第一款的情事來看，執業的律師應該移付律師懲戒委員會處理，並且依照本法規定結果可以是接受研習、警告、申誡、停止執行職務或是除名，但並非一定是除名，反倒是律師於非執業期間有同樣的情事，法務部就應該廢止其律師的證書，直觀上來看，似乎在未執業期間比執業期間所受的處分更加的嚴峻。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:10:41.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:10:46.286000+08:00","text":"我想請教部長，條文的設計是出於何種的考量？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:10:46.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:10:47.027000+08:00","text":"規範的輕重應該怎麼來衡平？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:10:51.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:11:06.767000+08:00","text":"這個還是要看，因為他一定要加入公會，如果不加入公會就去執行律師的業務，事實上是會影響到人民整個的權利與司法的運作。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:11:06.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:11:26.180000+08:00","text":"而且律師在執業的時候，本來在公會上有一定要遵守的規則，你現在沒有加入公會，反而這個制約作用就會變成很薄弱，他如果有違法或不當的行為，律師公會反而沒辦法去對他做處置。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:11:27.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:11:43.736000+08:00","text":"像委員剛才講的，就是去討論懲處或懲戒等等這些作法，所以在整個源頭我們說要廢止律師證書，但是這個修法，我們也要徵詢、尊重律師全聯會的一些意見。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:11:45.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:11:54.820000+08:00","text":"部長，我的意思是說，為什麼他在沒有執業期間比執業期間的規範所受的處分更加的嚴峻？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:11:54.820000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T10:11:55.820000+08:00","text":"會，會比較重。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:11:55.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:11:57.381000+08:00","text":"這好像蠻奇怪的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:11:57.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:12:16.972000+08:00","text":"最主要還是沒有加入公會……最主要還是因為可能影響到人民的權利跟司法制度的運作啦！","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:12:17.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:12:26.577000+08:00","text":"所以這次才會……但是我們還是有徵詢全聯會的意見，然後才會對於律師證書做把關。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:12:26.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:12:31.740000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係，部長，我覺得這個問題還是沒辦法解釋清楚，是不是會後再做詳盡……","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:12:32.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:12:33.461000+08:00","text":"我們再做書面的報告。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:12:36.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:12:47.326000+08:00","text":"連動到的是草案當中的第三項規定，前項第二款的情事，法務部應該徵詢全國律師聯合會的意見。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:12:47.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:13:00.229000+08:00","text":"也就是針對律師未執業期間的這種行為，如果有本法第五條第一項第一款或是第八款的這種情形，法務部應該先徵詢全國律師聯合會的意見，但是徵詢的效果為何？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:13:00.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:13:16.304000+08:00","text":"如果雙方意見不一致，法務部還是能夠廢止證書，是不是表示徵詢意見只是形式上作為參考而已？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:13:16.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:13:23.553000+08:00","text":"而有關徵詢全國律師聯合會的部分應該如何來發揮實質的功能及效果？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:13:25.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:13:34.557000+08:00","text":"這部分我們的確是徵詢的效果，並當作我們廢止律師證書的重要參考。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:13:35.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:13:54.150000+08:00","text":"剛才委員有提到萬一全聯會的意見跟我們當時要廢止的這部分有不同，我想就個案的問題、個案的情形不一樣，如果我們徵詢全聯會的結果是反對廢止，這部分我們就個案來做評估處理。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:13:55.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:14:36.725000+08:00","text":"好，另外是近年有傳出許多律師涉嫌勾結詐騙集團、洩漏偵查秘密的相關案件，以現行規範，限於特定的犯罪，最輕本刑一年以上才可以移付懲戒、停止職務，先前也已經有委員提出相關的案件，要對律師涉詐的這種情事給予更重的懲罰，法務部是否也會針對律師涉入詐欺的這個部分修法加以懲戒和停止的規範？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:14:38.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:15:16.025000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，我想委員點出的的確是一個問題，本部有研擬律師法第七條跟第七十四條的修正草案，將擴大律師經提起公訴得列入懲戒委員會停止執行職務的罪名範圍，所以這部分的罪名有做放寬，放寬為犯最重本刑五年以上之貪污、行賄、侵占、詐欺、背信或最輕本刑一年以上有期徒刑之罪，修正為只要故意犯最重本刑以上之罪這樣就可以了。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:15:16.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:15:30.695000+08:00","text":"另外停職的部分沒有制式的限制，我想這個草案預計在1月中會送行政院審議。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:15:32.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:15:40.664000+08:00","text":"好，部長，我想請教一下，我們是不是可以朝向假設這個律師一旦涉案就會先暫停執業？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:15:40.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:15:41.105000+08:00","text":"有沒有可能？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:15:45.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:15:51.183000+08:00","text":"這部分我們本部沒有決定權，要移送律師懲戒委員會來做審議。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:15:51.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:16:01.769000+08:00","text":"好，當然也希望這部分能夠有院版，我們剛剛講的這個部分能夠有院版的相關草案一併送審。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:16:01.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:16:07.013000+08:00","text":"我想請問部長，有關這個部分的研議，你們部內有沒有在開始進行？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:16:07.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:16:11.669000+08:00","text":"這個草案也要送行政院。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:16:12.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:16:14.592000+08:00","text":"對，我說部內有沒有開始在……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:16:15.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:16:19.818000+08:00","text":"有，已經完成了，1月中就會送行政院審議了。1月中？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:16:20.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:16:22.020000+08:00","text":"對，大概就是這個月。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員俊宇","start":"2025-01-13T10:16:22.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:16:29.548000+08:00","text":"好，我們也期待相關的修法內容能夠符合民眾的期待，謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2025-01-13T10:16:29.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:16:29.808000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-13T10:16:29.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T10:16:30.048000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳委員、謝謝鄭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-13T10:16:30.548000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T10:16:33.976571+08:00","text":"接下來有請謝委員龍介發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}