{"error":false,"id":["158832"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":158832,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158832","日期":"2025-01-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-2-15,36-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[15,36],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會","司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-01-13T10:15:37+08:00","結束時間":"2025-01-13T10:26:57+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:20","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/293c543958a38e47b19e82d516de511929f121d6a4fe60ddf85eb60e410638a8ea4ab2856517d8325ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"10:15:37 - 10:26:57","會議時間":"2025-01-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、繼續審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。二、繼續審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。三、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「地方制度法第八十三條之三條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「地方制度法第五十二條及第六十一條條文修正草案」案。五、審查委員蘇清泉等27人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。六、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法第五十六條條文修正草案」案。七、審查委員李坤城等20人擬具「地方制度法第七十八條條文修正草案」案。八、審查委員李彥秀等16人擬具「地方制度法第五十五條及第五十六條條文修正草案」案。九、審查委員高金素梅等18人擬具「地方制度法第八十三條之三條文修正草案」案。十、審查委員魯明哲等16人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。十一、審查委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「地方制度法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。十二、審查委員盧縣一等18人擬具「地方制度法部分條文修正草案」案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.177218750000002,"end":10.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.51034375,"end":12.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.923468750000001,"end":13.851593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.712218750000002,"end":15.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.32784375,"end":17.918468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.10409375,"end":22.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.76159375,"end":42.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.16784375,"end":45.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.812843750000006,"end":47.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.07409375,"end":59.835968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.257843750000006,"end":61.877843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.67096875,"end":63.649718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.18971875,"end":65.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.72534375000001,"end":66.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.34534375,"end":70.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.02409375,"end":73.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.97721875,"end":79.81596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.01846875000001,"end":101.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.34409375000001,"end":107.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.81159375,"end":111.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.87846875000001,"end":153.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.46721875,"end":124.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.28159375,"end":165.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.28784375,"end":178.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.83846875,"end":186.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.78659375,"end":192.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.19534375,"end":191.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.55346875,"end":206.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.72221875000002,"end":202.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.38284375,"end":208.87596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.38221875000002,"end":212.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.01909375000002,"end":213.51659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.89221875,"end":213.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.60096875000002,"end":214.00596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.00596875000002,"end":224.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.03971875000002,"end":214.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.74284375000002,"end":225.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.05909375000002,"end":242.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.44159375,"end":234.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.60471875000002,"end":244.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.35971875,"end":252.70034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.17284375000003,"end":261.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.40784375000004,"end":266.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.60534375000003,"end":305.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.13659375000003,"end":271.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.20659375,"end":309.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.65346875,"end":310.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.66159375,"end":318.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.91471875,"end":312.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.02846875,"end":313.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.40721875,"end":323.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.10721875,"end":325.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.68909375000004,"end":329.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.29159375,"end":332.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.65409375,"end":333.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.37971875,"end":335.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.70846875,"end":337.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.02471875000003,"end":346.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.42846875000004,"end":349.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.84971875,"end":352.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.79034375000003,"end":354.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.25846875,"end":371.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.39534375000005,"end":372.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.61409375000005,"end":389.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.24846875000003,"end":400.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.85471875,"end":399.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.85034375000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麼12月25號開秘密會議的時候"},{"start":295.628,"end":310.18,"text":"當時很多的署長要把這份資料拿給在場開密議會的各位委員請問是誰要求他們不要把這些資料提供給所有內政委員會的委員我不清楚委員所指的是什麼事情就是內政部舉證署發給各地政府要求他們要推薦"},{"start":319.468,"end":329.574,"text":"黑熊學院壯闊台灣成為未來訓練同志教官文凡請問部長當時命名婚姻的時候是誰下令請署長不要提供這些資料"},{"start":330.339,"end":349.498,"text":"秘密會議按照秘密會議的方式進行嗎署長我收到資料那個人好像就是你啊不是我已經跟委員報告過秘密會議就按照秘密會議的規範進行署長請問你當時在秘密會議的時候警政署下防署想要提供這些資料你有沒有下律說哪一位署長想要提供資料我不許他提供"},{"start":349.918,"end":369.792,"text":"主長現在都有吹哨者保護法我需要說第一個我跟妳報告現在已經有吹哨者拿出來這份密件說中央警政署的確有發文給地方政府用密件的方式要求他們使用一些特定圖利一些民間團體比如說壯闊台灣黑熊學院要求他們來辦理民防那請問"},{"start":374.355,"end":389.633,"text":"那署長 部長我拜託你兩件事情第一個希望你尊重委員會不管國民黨民進黨民眾黨各位委員未來有一些不是密件的東西不是秘密的東西只是民進黨不能說的秘密可不可以不要列密件"},{"start":390.587,"end":411.917,"text":"感謝委員的提供這些方面的見解我還是跟委員報告這個所謂列密件或是機密或是極機密的部分按照行政法規範我們是按照台灣跟黑熊學院辦理民防訓練這是秘密密件嗎我想你把兩件事情合在一起講我都非常清楚跟委員表達如果沒有按照預算法規定的話不符合就是不符合"},{"start":412.997,"end":431.645,"text":"那為什麼要發函?那這件事情是不是有應該要懲處?兩個時間點不一樣您先看一下兩個時間點不一樣哪個時間點?請部長您剛講的這個11月以前的發函的部分在報告裡面有發函嘛對不對?有發函它有寫例如但是表示這件事情沒有發生我剛剛跟部長解釋啦你們的建議就是一道聖旨啊"},{"start":432.105,"end":457.487,"text":"地方政府能不接受嗎而且我跟你講你這樣還甩鍋給地方政府未來地方政府使用黑熊學院撞過台灣的時候你就說那是地方政府他們要用的啊跟我中央無關啊我只是建議啊可是如果不照內政部警政署的建議那未來升官是不是就有問題這樣不會有利益衝突私相收受圖利特定民間團體的問題嗎不符合法規規定的我們一定不會做報告委員好"},{"start":459.642,"end":486.52,"text":"希望部長兩件事情要跟你拜託第一個未來不是密件的請你尊重我們內政委員會審查預算我們做好立法委員職權的部分不要再列密件第二個相關到底是誰第一個要求要把這兩個要推薦這兩個單位的資料可不可以提供給本委會內政委員會所有委員因為我相信連國民黨民眾民進黨的委員都不知道這些事情"},{"start":487.721,"end":506.426,"text":"然後第三個到底在秘密會議的時候警政署長消防署長在11月份就已經發函給地方政府這些資料原本在秘密會議就要提供給本委員的時候到底是誰要求說兩位署長不能提供這樣的資料也請部長幫我們查一下可以嗎"},{"start":507.446,"end":527.771,"text":"謝謝委員我可以馬上就跟你講按照我們的行政院在做密件的規範我們是按照密件規範來執行的那我們也同意在未來的內政委員會做專案報告的時候把沒有涉及到機密的部分呢盡量公開讓委員了解這個在上一次我們在做協商的時候已經非常清楚跟委員報告過上好那部長最後一個問題"},{"start":529.191,"end":548.238,"text":"剛剛提到討論的是地制法那地制法的部分其實剛剛很多委員講得非常的清楚就是直轄縣市的時候希望說不要用人數來限制剛剛特別提到有很多的縣市他的遷移的人口非常的多比如說像台北市他就遷移人口基本上白天的時候有些上班時候"},{"start":548.618,"end":575.992,"text":"人口大概會有300多萬的遷移進去的狀況所以部長我相信剛剛你特別在討論這個議題的時候你沒有明確說明為什麼直轄縣市用三個這個副市長的時候你有疑慮第二個我也要代表這個陳一貞委員請教就是非六都的縣市裡面其實一個副市長其實有時候不太夠那有時候要有文工有武功一個就是說要有些是主要辦文化的有些是主要辦建設的"},{"start":577.153,"end":595.97,"text":"所以我需要說這個六都的部分三個市長我覺得應該是合理因為現在以台灣未來是科技城市醫療城市醫療國家三個副市長應該是可行那非六都的部分我認為一個是這個一個做文化一個做建設應該也可行請部長是不是也同意這樣的情況這樣的建議"},{"start":598.071,"end":612.107,"text":"我想可以討論但是我剛有跟很多委員報告過我們希望能夠提拔優秀的文官而不是只有因為副市長副縣長這些幾乎都會是政務官那優秀的文官那包括有些委員提案"},{"start":612.688,"end":638.686,"text":"全部都是一級主管都全部是政務官的話恐怕會影響到優秀文官的升遷那同時我們要考慮地方上的差異也就是說如果優秀的文官全部都集中在直轄市那當然是好事那有一些呢比較偏鄉的譬如說他的職級比較低然後他也不能夠變成是一個主管的時候那他會留在原來的偏鄉或是比較偏僻的地方服務的可能性就會降低我是考慮到這個部分"},{"start":639.747,"end":660.831,"text":"那委員的修正案或是委員的提案的話我們當然是都可以討論那個不一定是說很死一定要怎樣怎樣才是對的因為剛剛委員有提到有的人流動人口是400萬到500萬那為什麼副市長只有三位那這些都可以討論但是就是沒有一定的定案好那部長最後拜託一下主席不好意思那最後剛剛我第一個問題多久可以給本席資料針對中央政府發函給地方政府的這些資料"},{"start":669.264,"end":676.108,"text":"我再查一下因為我知道不是由我授權的部分所以我再查一下那多久可以給本席資料月底之前好嗎好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}