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謝謝主席 姐姐們請部長委員好部長早安 部長剛才講那個非常對我覺得其實未來其實不管是第四法修訂之後其實還要考慮到就是包括各縣市的職等要打開的問題讓公務人員有更多發展的空間那這個當然是之後我們再討論的事情"},{"start":26.798,"end":56.218,"text":"那我想在針對今天第四法相關議題討論之前我本席有些問題想要跟部長就教那部長本席看到我們內政部在1月10號宣布春節期間發給全國村里長1.5個月的事務補助費要讓全國的村里長跟軍公教人員在1月17日同時可以同步領到這個年終獎金那近日會撥款給各縣市政府請問現在目前的進度是怎麼樣"},{"start":57.719,"end":84.419,"text":"我已經發文給縣市政府已經發文過去了發文過去了但是因為它是大筆的一個撥款必須通報國庫署所以目前已經在通報國庫署當中所以1月17日進行一定 大家都唸得對原則上希望在1月15撥到縣市然後1月17可以到達鄉鎮好 謝謝是市長喔是市長嗎對市長 因為市長有回覆喔 市長"},{"start":86.46,"end":111.531,"text":"不然本市完全支持增加全國村里長的事務補助費因為傳立場應該都是站在旁邊的第一層不然是入坪燈亮、水溝通或者是村裡的大大小小的事實每天在一堆事情民眾第一時間都找傳立場我想這個部分我們一定要來給我們的村長更多的支持跟鼓勵不過很遺憾這件美事"},{"start":113.012,"end":125.43,"text":"卻造成 卻讓變成許多民進黨人士拿來做政治鬥爭的工具我想在我們立法院的總預算還沒有復回之前民進黨許多的這個民進黨代表不斷的造謠"},{"start":127.849,"end":143.34,"text":"總醫生如果沒有通過 你們這裡的傳統地方都站不住這個國保國衛的事務補助費其實這個本事都有聽到 連我回到選區都有聽到這樣的聲音這樣非常遺憾喔 因為這樣的假消息我從來沒有看到內政部跳出來澄清或反駁這樣不實的謠言"},{"start":144.481,"end":169.342,"text":"不過我跟委員再補充一下好嗎我們在那個上個禮拜的時候有跟三個黨團的總召還有我們召委都有跟他提到說我們必須要把這個大額一共有5.9億的這個公務預算雖然是法定支付看能不能在就是所謂春節前10日發那因為他們幾位總召都說可以包括召委都同意我們才把這個公文發出去"},{"start":170.042,"end":176.169,"text":"所以事實上我們是徵得立法院的同意然後內政委員會很多委員都同意的狀況才知道"},{"start":178.82,"end":196.906,"text":"但當時民間這樣在傳出來的時候甚至有民意代表在議會也講的時候並沒有看到內政部來澄清啊我沒有在議會答詢啊我是說地方啦地方 你要告訴我所以我要告訴你不一定知道你現在要告訴我不一定知道說這個傳聞不一定知道嗎這件事情是大家三個都共同想要來推動的我想我記得那天也是在民內政審嘛十幾個小時啊"},{"start":204.828,"end":221.98,"text":"當天過的時候大家都很開心因為我們可以幫基層的這些村長爭取福利我覺得這是好事情因為像我說的 保定我只是要分享這件事給保定知道說這件事讓我們大家覺得說我們是在做第二個事情有什麼用這個東西來做醫生有過沒過的理由所以我們還是婦委了嘛對不對部長所以部長"},{"start":231.118,"end":250.732,"text":"如果你有當過地方的副首長你應該很清楚知道這個總預算裡面這個法律義務支出就是不管對於社會保險補助也好教育補助金額也好地方補助也好這個都是屬於法律義務支出建屋是絕對可以提前來動之的如果有所謂說拿不到的情況"},{"start":251.553,"end":271.731,"text":"我想是依法啦但是黃偉永跟您講一下就是說因為他這個所謂的地方的這個補助費是113年6月19日修正公佈那但是他是第一次修正公佈所以事實上在釋法當中會有灰色地帶然後我們在內政委員會審的時候我們的那個電視的監測系統也都知道"},{"start":272.271,"end":298.556,"text":"所以指導的一定會指導 像委員一定非常清楚這個話其實在我們家也都可以做到的 就是說地方在說這些話的時候我們也希望雷正博要出來澄清說因為要讓我們的村民長安心啦 人家也期待很久這件事情對全國的村民長都是很大的鼓舞啦對 這種東西本來就不會拿不到嘛因為發生這種事情在流竄其實是對村民長造成恐慌啦好 那"},{"start":299.73,"end":326.486,"text":"不然我為什麼會這樣說就是我也被媒體問就是說你們為什麼要一邊擋預算一邊又說爭取其實我覺得這兩件事情是不能很危難但我想或許政黨裡面它有一些攻防的手段跟方式但是內政部正在內政部的角色應該要來說明不然好我們這個問題就到這邊我也想說我們不要再爭論下去了那接下來本席要再反映另外一件事就是說"},{"start":327.446,"end":328.629,"text":"保證這是真的要跟我們的傳譯中來跟保證來"},{"start":333.14,"end":354.475,"text":"我們裡面有一個叫九任獎金就是年滿六屆滿六十五歲的村長他就可以領到一筆叫做九任慰勞金現在很多年輕人他很年輕就現在很多村長很年輕就開始從事服務的工作他可能沒六個月還沒六十五歲但是因為這樣沒辦法領到這條錢"},{"start":357.677,"end":371.442,"text":"我想這個失去了九任慰勞金原本的美意我們的重點是九任嘛不是他年紀多少吧那不知道我們目前我們國內啊 保證我們國內還沒六十歲的傳統你覺得比得多嗎 保證還是市長回答 市長"},{"start":379.302,"end":384.97,"text":"未滿60歲的我現在的受益 沒關係 我現在的受益4.3%啦 獎金一半啦 將近一半喔"},{"start":394.682,"end":410.407,"text":"我也相信現在越來越多年輕人越會投入公眾事務所以未滿65歲的青莊社帶的影響非常非常的多所以會後也請部裡面這邊來做調查這樣的比例有多少我們是不是能夠來研議來修這個門檻因為畢竟你要做六任並不容易"},{"start":411.327,"end":414.209,"text":"我們現在手頭上的資料就是滿65歲的有六成"},{"start":436.289,"end":458.276,"text":"六成所以有四成是阿伯六成但是我的意思是說我們當時在考慮的時候也有考慮到說要任職要滿六屆然後年滿65歲我們仍然是以這個為目標現在的規劃的方向我們在會後會提供給黃委員參考這個請布委員來演繹因為年輕人願意投入公共事務但是要年滿六屆"},{"start":459.376,"end":478.331,"text":"65歲,但是他65歲為主嘛,不是以65歲嘛他可以繼續做啊,因為現在立定有的也差不多我們主要是要鼓勵年輕人,你如果投入公共事務,你就要做到65歲,這也是要鼓勵啦鼓勵年輕人,因為不中金啦,因為不簡單我相信這不是第一次說這件事情我們來提他的分析啦,然後提供給委員參考好不好我們來提分析報告"},{"start":489.139,"end":516.171,"text":"好那最後我講關於今天第四法的問題我想不管是執政黨或是在野黨都有委員提出這個修法的版本那關鍵的重點就是希望地方政府的組織還有人士能更有彈性那增加地方的這個自治的能量像本席所在的台東縣其實面臨的也是一樣問題但是我們更大的問題就是我們要怎麼留住基層的公務人員博定我是怎麼說這讓你聽博定"},{"start":517.111,"end":539.989,"text":"年改之後,其實越來越多年輕人不太願意從事公職的工作,包括你越來越低我們花東地區的公務機構,不管是公務單位或是學校單位,其實它承受更大的工作壓力在我們資源匱乏,而且在台東交通作戶方面的情況之下,偏鄉公務人員跟教職人員的工作負擔是日益沉重"},{"start":540.689,"end":558.35,"text":"而且最容易是造成人員的流動率越來越高行政效益跟學生塑膠品質都一定會受到影響那我為什麼會說這樣子部長我們工人業有很多的佳績像東部就一個叫做東台佳績部長 市長你知道現在東台佳績一個月多少錢嗎"},{"start":565.135,"end":584.143,"text":"630元一個月630元連台北到台東的火車票都買不起一公元六百三十塊大家報告這個不是現在本是在最早到工部門擔任約聘僱人員的時候那個時候就是630經過了二三十年他還是630塊他沒有隨著物價波動調整"},{"start":587.845,"end":606.021,"text":"那像這樣的情況之下,很容易發生一個就是,我報考上,不管是高補考或是地方特考的,他只要擔滿,像高補考,擔滿三年之後,他就可以,沒有榜樣他就可以離開,地特是六年嘛,會發生什麼情況?特別是偏鄉,本市占擔任過偏鄉的鄉長,我們六年以後,這個公務人員就開始掉薪,"},{"start":610.845,"end":627.712,"text":"因為你沒有願意讓他留下來嘛那會在人偏鄉還有離島地區會產生什麼情況我們不能公務人員的基礎訓練中心新兵訓練所啦新兵訓練所多六年 三年 多成熟 能夠開始服務的訓練他都要照顧所以我們是不是要研議"},{"start":629.253,"end":656.239,"text":"在這個部分我們是不是在討論說未來要怎麼樣提升基層工人特別是花東跟偏遠地區、離島地區工人員的這些福利讓他們願意留下來而不會造成人員的移動因為這一些基層的工人員還有教師員他都是代表我們政府要推動政令我們的政策的第一線人員我們希望他能夠更穩定那這部分我也希望請部長我們是不是有機會來做這樣的演繹"},{"start":660.72,"end":688.213,"text":"那個黃委員您剛講的630元這個部分這是人事行政總署的規定那您有提到說基層公務員有這樣子的一個這個不公平因為二三十年都沒改變的話我們又會反應過去那您剛所提到的部分就是讓偏鄉地區的縣政府縣市政府的公務員可以留下來不是只有家籍的問題就是我剛剛所提到的在都會地區你要找公務人員真的比較快"},{"start":689.654,"end":716.205,"text":"好生活然後加幾多所以部長越上下就越不行那所以我們地方自助法在修正的過程當中如果你沒有很好的配套措施你只會鼓勵偏鄉的縣市公務人員往那個越為都會去的地方移動包括我一開始提到未來我們的指點事項在打開的部分後來升遷的部分它的實際上的就是我們的那因為指點打開不是只有內政部的權財會有那個當然部長部長你說內政部的對"},{"start":719.526,"end":743.34,"text":"大家長應該來幫忙對 所以我非常了解就好像我跟黃委員提過我們在台東這邊如果有警察在執勤的時候應該符合勞基法那我是不是用這個替代役的方式來幫忙你補充其實我們現在在規劃不是只有台東所以包括像離島也是一樣我說不是只有台東那我們已經在規劃當中但是必須要有一段時間的訓練你不能七公八公就夠"},{"start":747.563,"end":766.697,"text":"所以縣市 縣市尤其是偏鄉的縣市公務人員第一個 直等或是加擠或是其他的這個升遷管道如果都被擋住變成他的天花板只有九直等十直等或者是一下子要跳到政務官政務官再跳回來其實在地方政府沒有那麼容易但是我們又知道你也在鄉鎮公所待過"},{"start":767.478,"end":780.429,"text":"如果是公務譬如說它是土木工程機械工程現在就已經很難找到公務員你又跟他講說你只能幹到副局長或者你只能幹到副處長我相信不要三年他就走掉了外面的要找外面的套路很方便"},{"start":782.791,"end":804.472,"text":"所以這個部分其實真的是必須要好好的跟地方縣市政府來談然後再來討論到有關財政收支劃分跟公共債務跟舉債的問題這樣子搭配下來對地方縣市尤其是離島鄉鎮的部分呢跟在這個都會地區裡面的公務人員不對等的這個狀況"},{"start":805.393,"end":820.866,"text":"所以我們才提到我們是比較保守的只能寫說要把差異的規範要分析出來我們才能夠做改進那這個改進呢沒有藍綠之別所以很多委員會想說我所謂的因人設施才不是這樣子所以部長也是同意這件事情未來我們來做這個努力嘛好不好"},{"start":829.025,"end":847.057,"text":"要有配套措施,但是不可能只有放在地方制度法,我剛剛有講過,人有人,錢有錢。一波一波來啦,這真的,不過,這裡補充妳的角度,妳要看這平行的溝通保全一部這,六八三十個在座各位公民,妳們一國六八三十個,可以做社會,妳們跟我說,妳們如果住在台北,妳們買火車票還要貼八個口在裡面,對嗎?"},{"start":852.079,"end":866.548,"text":"一個月加息630元630元能夠你怎麼鼓勵他留在偏鄉我們最希望是人才能夠流動我們可以馬上來協調但是我剛剛所說的值等啦人數啦財政啦真的沒有辦法馬上協調"},{"start":867.449,"end":887.847,"text":"所以部長這個都是一步一步來我們一個一個來解決能解決我們先解決我想這個也是對工人員的一個肯定因為畢竟到偏鄉真的不容易我們要想辦法讓他們留住那能夠留住其實對地方人才能夠穩定的話對地方發展能夠均衡而不會讓人城鄉越來越差距越來越大所以也謝謝部長跟市長今天"},{"start":889.068,"end":901.047,"text":"我們達到某些程度上的共識我們一起努力讓這個國家的公務人員能夠獲得更好的福利然後讓他們有更穩定的發展那也謝謝部長跟市長 以上謝謝主席 謝謝謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:45:30.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:45:31.823000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:45:31.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:45:33.484000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:45:34.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:45:34.765000+08:00","text":"部長早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:45:35.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:45:51.058000+08:00","text":"部長剛才講那個非常對，我覺得未來其實不管是地制法修訂之後，其實還要考慮到各縣市職等要打開的問題，讓公務人員有更多發展的空間，那這當然是之後我們再討論的事情。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:45:51.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:46:21.218000+08:00","text":"我想在針對今天地制法相關議題討論之前，本席有一些問題想要就教部長，部長，本席看到內政部在1月10號宣布春節期間發給全國村里長1.5個月的事務補助費，要讓全國的村里長跟軍公教人員在1月17日同步領到年終獎金，近日會撥款給各縣市政府，請問目前的進度是怎麼樣？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:46:24.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:46:26.061000+08:00","text":"已經發文過去了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭司長英弘","start":"2025-01-13T11:46:26.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:46:35.248000+08:00","text":"但是因為它是大筆的撥款，必須通報國庫署，所以目前在通報國庫署當中。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:46:35.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:46:38.951000+08:00","text":"所以1月17號之前一定大家都領得到就對了？","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"鄭司長英弘","start":"2025-01-13T11:46:38.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:46:45.596000+08:00","text":"原則上希望在1月15日撥到縣市，然後1月17日可以到達鄉鎮。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:46:45.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:46:46.536000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝司長回復。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:46:47.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:47:38.693000+08:00","text":"部長，本席完全支持增加全國村里長的事務補助費，因為村里長永遠都是站在民意的第一線，不管是路平燈亮水溝通或者是村里的大大小小的事情，「沓沓滴滴」一堆事情，民眾第一個時間都找村里長，我想這個部分，我們一定要給我們的村里長更多的支持跟鼓勵，不過很遺憾，這件美事卻變成許多民進黨人士拿來做政治鬥爭的工具，我想在我們立法院的總預算還沒有付委之前，民進黨許多的民意代表不斷的造謠，說總預算如果沒有通過，害你們這些村里長都拿不到的一個月半的事務補助費啦！","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:47:38.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:47:48.320000+08:00","text":"其實這個說法本席都有聽到，連我回到選區都有聽到這樣的聲音，我想非常遺憾，面對這樣的假消息，我從來沒有看到內政部跳出來澄清或反駁這樣不實的謠言。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:47:49.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:47:53.024000+08:00","text":"不過我跟委員再補充一下好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:47:53.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:48:14.322000+08:00","text":"我們在上個禮拜的時候，有跟三個黨黨團的總召還有召委都提到，我們必須要把這個大額一共有5.9億的公務預算，雖然是法定支付，看能不能在所謂春節前10日發，因為他們幾位總召都說可以，包括召委都同意，我們才把這個公文發出去。","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:48:15.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:48:21.149000+08:00","text":"所以事實上我們是徵得立法院的同意，然後內政委員會很多委員也都同意的狀況，才知道……","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:48:23.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:48:31.202000+08:00","text":"但是部長，在當時民間這樣在傳出來的時候，甚至有民意代表在議會也講的時候，並沒有看到內政部來澄清啊！","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:48:31.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:48:32.443000+08:00","text":"我沒有在議會答詢啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:48:32.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:48:33.863000+08:00","text":"我是說地方啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:48:34.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:48:35.804000+08:00","text":"地方，你要跟我說。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:48:35.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:48:37.344000+08:00","text":"所以我要說給部長知道。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:48:37.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:48:39.325000+08:00","text":"現在你才告訴我，如果你有說這個傳聞，我們就會去講啊！","quality":0.435},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:48:39.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:48:41.626000+08:00","text":"部長，我只是要反映這件事情，這件事情是大家三黨都共同想要來推動的，我記得那天也是在我們內政審嘛！","quality":0.659},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:48:41.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:49:03.177000+08:00","text":"審十幾個小時，當天過的時候，大家都很開心，因為我們可以幫基層這些村里長爭取福利，我覺得這是好事情，因為像我說的，部長，我只是要反映這件事情，讓部長知道這件事情、讓大家覺得我們不是在做對的事情嗎？","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:49:03.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:49:04.458000+08:00","text":"為什麼要用這個東西來做預算有過沒過的理由？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:49:04.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:49:05.779000+08:00","text":"所以我們還是付委了，對不對？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:49:05.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:49:35.732000+08:00","text":"部長，你也有當過地方的副首長，你應該很清楚知道總預算裡面，這個法律義務支出就是不管對於社會保險補助也好、教育補助經費也好、地方補助也好，這個都是屬於法律義務支出，這個義務是絕對可以提前來動支的，不會有所謂拿不到的情況。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:49:36.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:49:38.235000+08:00","text":"我想是依法啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:49:38.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:49:48.243000+08:00","text":"但是黃委員，我跟您講一下，因為所謂地方的補助費是113年6月19日修正公布，但它是第一次修正公布。對嘛！","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:49:48.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:49:56.711000+08:00","text":"所以事實上在適法當中會有灰色地帶，我們在內政委員會審的時候，我們電視的監測系統也都知道……對啦！","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:49:56.711000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T11:49:57.711000+08:00","text":"部長，這個本席……","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:49:57.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:49:59.972000+08:00","text":"所以知道的一定都知道，像委員一定非常清楚狀況……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:50:00.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:50:21.996000+08:00","text":"本席都清楚，其實在我們這裡也討論很多次，只是地方在說這些話的時候，我們也希望內政部要出來澄清，因為要讓我們的村里長安心啦，人家也期待很久，這件事情對全國的村里長都是很大的鼓舞，這種東西本來就不會拿不到，因為發生這種事情在流竄，其實是對村里長造成恐慌。","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:50:24.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:50:26.771000+08:00","text":"部長，我為什麼會這樣說？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:50:26.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:50:32.174000+08:00","text":"就是我也被媒體問，問我們為什麼要一邊擋預算，然後一邊又說爭取。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:50:32.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:50:44.021000+08:00","text":"其實我覺得這兩件事情是不能混為一談，但我想或許政黨裡面，有一些攻防的手段跟方式，但是內政部站在內政部的角色，應該要來說明。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:50:46.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:50:48.984000+08:00","text":"部長，這個問題就到這邊，我也認為我們不要再爭論下去了。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:50:49.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:51:29.679000+08:00","text":"接下來本席要再反映另外一件事，部長，這是真的要替我們的村里長再跟部長陳情，我們有一個叫久任獎金，就是滿6屆滿65歲的村里長，他就可以領到一筆叫做久任慰勞金，可是部長，現在很多村里長很年輕就開始從事服務的工作，他可能滿6屆的時候，還未滿65歲，但是因為這樣沒辦法領到這筆錢，我想這會失去了久任慰勞金原本的美意，我們的重點是久任，而不是他年紀多少。","quality":0.796},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:51:32.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:51:35.461000+08:00","text":"部長，目前我們國內還沒60歲的村里長，你知道比例是多少嗎？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:51:35.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:51:36.262000+08:00","text":"還是司長要回答？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:51:44.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:51:44.483000+08:00","text":"未滿60歲的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:51:44.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T11:51:45.544000+08:00","text":"我們再去查一下，好不好？","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:51:45.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:52:15.387000+08:00","text":"沒有關係，我這裡的數字是43%，將近一半，我也相信現在越來越多年輕人因為投入公眾事務，所以未滿65歲青壯世代的村里長非常非常的多，所以會後也請部裡面來做調查，這樣比例有多少，我們是不是能夠研議來修這個門檻，因為畢竟你要做6任並不容易，不是說連任而已，那是要有熱誠，村里的業務這麼多，要有熱誠。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:52:15.387000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T11:52:16.387000+08:00","text":"所以我們是不是可以修改年齡的門檻，符合我們久任獎金的美意。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:52:16.387000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T11:52:17.387000+08:00","text":"事後是不是請部裡面這邊就將統計相關報告交給本席辦公室這邊？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:52:16.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:52:19.189000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們現在手頭上的資料，就是滿65歲的有六成。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:52:41.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:52:41.549000+08:00","text":"六成嘛！六成。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:52:41.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:52:43.370000+08:00","text":"所以有四成是還沒有65歲。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:52:44.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:52:58.834000+08:00","text":"是，但是我的意思是，我們當時在考慮的時候，也有考慮到任職要滿6屆，然後年滿65歲，我們仍然是以這個為目標，現在規劃的方向，我們在會後會提供給黃委員參考。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:52:59.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:02.436000+08:00","text":"是，這請部裡面來研議，因為年輕人願意投入公共事務，真的要鼓勵。","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:02.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:03.276000+08:00","text":"但是要滿6屆。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:04.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:09.180000+08:00","text":"6屆了，但是還沒滿65歲，我們是以6屆為主，不是以65歲，對不對？","quality":0.409},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:09.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:11.322000+08:00","text":"他可以繼續做！","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:11.322000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:12.322000+08:00","text":"沒有啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:12.322000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:13.322000+08:00","text":"我們要鼓勵。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:11.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:13.623000+08:00","text":"他可以繼續做，因為現在里長有的人也是差不多……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:13.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:18.747000+08:00","text":"部長，我們主要是要鼓勵年輕人如果投入公眾事務，你有辦法做到6屆，這也是要給他鼓勵啦！","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:18.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:20.008000+08:00","text":"鼓勵年輕人不是為了這個獎金啦！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:20.008000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:21.008000+08:00","text":"是不是我們來研議？","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:21.008000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:22.008000+08:00","text":"部長，是不是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:22.008000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:23.008000+08:00","text":"他要選得上，沒有那麼簡單。","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:20.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:21.329000+08:00","text":"部長，是不是來研議這件事情？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:21.329000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:22.329000+08:00","text":"我相信本席不是第一個說這些事情的人。","quality":0.059},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:21.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:22.830000+08:00","text":"我們來提它的分析，然後提供給委員參考，好不好？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:22.830000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:23.830000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長的允諾。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:22.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:34.139000+08:00","text":"我們來提分析報告。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:34.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:53:59.410000+08:00","text":"最後我講關於今天地制法的問題，我想不管是執政黨或是在野黨都有委員提出修法的版本，關鍵的重點就是希望地方政府的組織，還有人事能更有彈性，那增加地方的自治能量，像本席所在的臺東縣，其實面臨的也是一樣的問題，但是我們更大的問題就是我們要怎麼留住基層的公務人員。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:53:59.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:54:32.938000+08:00","text":"部長，我為什麼會說這些給你聽，年改之後，其實越來越多年輕人不太願意從事公職的工作，報考率越來越低，我們花東地區的公務機構，不管是公務單位或是學校單位，其實他承受更大、更大的工作壓力，在我們資源匱乏而且在臺東交通這麼不方便的情況之下，偏鄉公務人員跟教職人員的工作負擔是日益沉重，而且最容易造成人員的流動率越來越高，行政效率跟學生受教品質都一定會受到影響。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:54:33.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:54:43.350000+08:00","text":"我為什麼會說這樣子，部長，公務人員有很多的加給，像東部就有一個叫東臺加給，部長、司長，你們知道現在東臺加給一個月多少錢嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:54:50.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:54:55.857000+08:00","text":"我向大家報告，一個月630元，630元連臺北到臺東的火車票都買不起，一個月630元！","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:54:58.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:55:26.017000+08:00","text":"跟大家報告，這個不是現在，本席在最早到公部門擔任約聘僱人員的時候，那個時候就是630元，經過了二、三十年，它還是630元，它沒有隨著物價波動調整，像這樣的情況之下，很容易發生一個狀況，就是報考上，不管是高普考或是地方特考，像高普考，他只要待滿3年之後，沒有綁約，他就可以離開；地特是6年。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:55:26.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:55:28.058000+08:00","text":"這會造成什麼情況？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:55:28.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:55:40.867000+08:00","text":"特別是偏鄉，本席擔任過偏鄉的鄉長，6年之後，這些公務人員就開始調職，因為你沒有誘因讓他留下來，造成偏鄉還有離島地區會產生什麼情況？","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:55:40.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:55:45.389000+08:00","text":"我們變成公務人員的基礎訓練中心，新兵訓練所啦！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:55:47.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:56:06.876000+08:00","text":"6年、3年剛好成熟，可以開始服務的時候，他都調走了，所以我們是不是要研議，在這個部分，我們是不是來討論未來要怎麼樣提升基層公務人員，特別是花東跟偏遠地區、離島地區公務人員的這些福利，讓他們願意留下來，而不會造成人員的異動？","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:56:06.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:56:17.278000+08:00","text":"因為這一些基層的公務人員也好，教師也好，他都是代表我們政府要推動政令、推動政策的第一線人員，我們希望他能夠更穩定。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:56:18.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:56:21.119000+08:00","text":"這部分，我也希望請部長，我們是不是有機會來做這樣的研議？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:56:26.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:56:39.267000+08:00","text":"黃委員，您剛剛講的630元這個部分，這是人事行政總處的規定，您有提到基層公務員有這樣子的一個不公平，因為二、三十年都沒改變的話，我們會反映過去。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:56:40.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:56:48.331000+08:00","text":"您剛所提到的部分，就是讓偏鄉地區的縣市政府公務員可以留下來，不是只有加給的問題……","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:56:48.331000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T11:56:49.331000+08:00","text":"當然，這個絕對不只。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:56:48.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:57:11.341000+08:00","text":"我剛剛所提到的，在都會地區你要找公務人員真的比較快，好生活，然後加給多，越鄉下就越不行，所以我們地方制度法在修正的過程當中，如果你沒有很好的配套措施，你只會鼓勵偏鄉縣市的公務人員往比較有錢的都會區移動。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:57:11.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:57:18.224000+08:00","text":"包括我一開始提到，未來我們的職等是不是要再打開的部分，或他升遷的部分，實際上就是我們每個月薪水的……","quality":0.689},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:57:18.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:57:20.584000+08:00","text":"因為職等打開不是只有內政部的權責，還有人事……當然。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:57:20.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:57:25.727000+08:00","text":"部長，你是內政部的大家長，你應該來幫忙做這件事。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:57:26.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:57:38.835000+08:00","text":"對，所以我非常了解，就好像我跟黃委員提過，我們在臺東這邊，如果有警察在執勤的時候，應該要符合勞基法，那我是不是用替代役的方式來幫忙你補充，其實我們現在也在規劃。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:57:38.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:57:41.256000+08:00","text":"不是只有臺東，這個……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:57:41.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:57:43.657000+08:00","text":"所以包括像離島也是一樣……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:57:43.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:59:03.905000+08:00","text":"我說不是只有臺東，我們已經在規劃當中，但是必須要有一段時間的訓練，你不能馬上……尤其是偏鄉縣市的公務人員，第一個，職等或是加給或是其他的升遷管道如果都被擋住，變成他的天花板只有九職等、十職等，或者是一下子要跳到政務官，政務官再跳回來，其實在地方政府沒有那麼容易，但是我們又知道，你也在鄉鎮公所待過，如果是工務，譬如說他是土木工程、機械工程，現在就已經很難找到公務員，你要跟他講說你只能幹到副局長或者你只能幹到副處長，我相信不要3年他就走掉了，要找外面的工作是很方便的，所以這個部分其實真的是必須要好好地跟地方縣市政府來談，然後再討論到有關財政收支劃分跟公共債務跟舉債的問題，這樣子搭配下來，對地方縣市、尤其是離島鄉鎮的部分跟都會地區裡面的公務人員不對等的這個狀況，所以我們才提到，我們是比較保守，只能寫說要把差異的規範要分析出來，我們才能夠做改進，那這個改進沒有藍綠之別，所以很多委員就講說我因人設事，不是這樣子，而是偏鄉地區有差別。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:59:04.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:59:05.846000+08:00","text":"我相信部長會替我們基層的公務人員來打算，所以部長也是同意這件事情，未來我們來做這個努力，好不好？","quality":0.568},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:59:14.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:59:18.528000+08:00","text":"我們要有配套措施，但是不可能只有放在地方制度法，我剛剛有講過，人有人、錢有錢……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:59:18.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:59:19.449000+08:00","text":"一步一步來啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:59:22.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:59:32.057000+08:00","text":"站在部長你的角度，你要跟這些地方做溝通，只有630塊，在座各位公務人員，一個月630塊可以做什麼你們跟我說，你們家如果住臺北，你買火車票還要貼一百多塊在上面，對吧？","quality":0.544},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:59:37.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:59:43.443000+08:00","text":"一個月加給630元，你怎麼鼓勵他留在偏鄉？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:59:43.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:59:46.165000+08:00","text":"我們最希望是人才能夠流動……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:59:46.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:59:49.027000+08:00","text":"如果黃委員只針對630元，我們可以馬上來協調，但是我剛剛所說的職等啦！","quality":0.655},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:59:49.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:59:49.767000+08:00","text":"人數啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:59:50.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:59:50.448000+08:00","text":"財政啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T11:59:50.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:59:51.548000+08:00","text":"真的沒有辦法馬上協調。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:59:52.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T11:59:58.695000+08:00","text":"所以部長，這個都是一步一步來，我們一個一個來解決，能解決的我們先解決，我想這個也是對公務人員的一個肯定啦！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T11:59:59.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T12:00:10.525000+08:00","text":"因為畢竟到偏鄉真的不容易，我們要想辦法讓他能夠留住，其實能夠留住、地方人才能夠穩定的話，地方發展才能夠均衡，而不會造成城鄉差距越來越大。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T12:00:11.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T12:00:24.865000+08:00","text":"所以也謝謝部長跟司長，今天我們達到某些程度上的共識，我們一起努力，讓這個國家的公務人員能夠獲得更好的福利，然後讓他們有更穩定的發展，那也謝謝部長跟司長。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2025-01-13T12:00:24.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T12:00:26.027000+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝主席，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-13T12:00:26.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-13T12:00:26.047000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-13T12:00:26.547000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-13T12:00:28.832714+08:00","text":"接著請吳琪銘委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}