{"error":false,"id":["158894"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":158894,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158894","日期":"2025-01-15","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-2-19,20-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[19,20],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會","財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-01-15T11:09:50+08:00","結束時間":"2025-01-15T11:19:33+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:43","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/427ddbb1724b1d1aee8b6a4db9abcb6f5a45ebd5c2e75318b9af4de1086944f10f6f7234e961ca575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"11:09:50 - 11:19:33","會議時間":"2025-01-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「產業創新條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員林岱樺等18人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等29人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員何欣純等23人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、本院委員邱議瑩等16人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案。\n七、本院委員蔡其昌等18人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案。\n八、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n九、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「產業創新條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員鄭正鈐等19人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(第一案及第十一案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查)\n【1月15日及16日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.57096875,"end":2.7815937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.919718750000001,"end":13.125968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.277843750000002,"end":14.172218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.05721875,"end":27.722843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.73971875,"end":30.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.28346875,"end":37.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.337218750000005,"end":43.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.70346875,"end":62.181593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.62034375,"end":64.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.30784375,"end":67.15971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.32846875,"end":90.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.66659375,"end":91.88159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.01659375000001,"end":162.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.79034375,"end":162.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.58346875,"end":163.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.61721875,"end":164.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.93346875,"end":167.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.68409375000002,"end":169.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.18159375000002,"end":171.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.64971875,"end":175.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.15971875000002,"end":177.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.84284375000001,"end":191.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.46534375000002,"end":201.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.10909375,"end":215.37284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.79034375,"end":221.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.19034375,"end":248.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.89034375000003,"end":225.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.93221875,"end":227.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.08221875,"end":239.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.13659375,"end":242.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.16596875000002,"end":245.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.92909375000002,"end":247.70534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.02596875,"end":248.21159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.21159375000002,"end":248.24534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.24534375000002,"end":253.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.27909375000002,"end":250.21971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.67909375000002,"end":306.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.21346875,"end":291.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.73221875,"end":292.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.74659375000005,"end":308.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.84346875,"end":309.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.15971875,"end":311.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.40409375,"end":313.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.77096875,"end":316.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.55534375,"end":319.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.33534375,"end":321.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.02284375,"end":326.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.98409375,"end":332.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.32909375,"end":340.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.12534375,"end":362.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.74221875,"end":364.21034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.95284375,"end":365.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.18471875,"end":367.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.05784375,"end":389.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.77596875,"end":391.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.41284375000004,"end":396.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.69471875000005,"end":397.57221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.97721875,"end":423.20534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.30659375000005,"end":458.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.98471875,"end":475.51784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.61534375,"end":472.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.24784375,"end":487.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.74096875000004,"end":480.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SP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下位之言請吳麗華委員謝謝主席 有請經濟部次長經濟部連次長"},{"start":22.549,"end":30.377,"text":"市長好市長我在簡報上有一張照片那這個是在印尼的蘇拉威西省"},{"start":31.38,"end":52.259,"text":"那他們正在進行開採的是做電動車電池很重要的鎳礦那這個照片當中有一個背影是當地的原住民那我看了這張照片其實我很有感也很感慨為什麼呢 因為這就是全世界原住民的一個縮影"},{"start":53.92,"end":78.854,"text":"那在這個開採案裡面也有很多的台灣企業投入那我們總是覺得說看到這樣的場景就是會想到國家的法律呢其實限制了或者不承認原住民他們既有的這種謀生方式開墾方式有很多的法令處處限制可是呢我們卻看到國家把森林收為國有而且允許企業進來開採"},{"start":83.217,"end":99.515,"text":"我想这样的一个情景其实是全世界原住民的一个缩影那变成是原住民在自己的土地就是当工人而没有办法在自己的土地去经营这块土地那个是非常令人感到非常遗憾的"},{"start":100.115,"end":103.597,"text":"那為什麼我這樣談因為今天委員會是排了產業創新條例那我自己也做了第22條的一個修正動議那我基本上我想我們肯定在這一次的條例當中可能是基於我們有一些企業那樣是之前新聞很大的就是台塑"},{"start":124.33,"end":142.617,"text":"他們的鋼鐵在越南造成一些污染那我們就發現到說國內國外都無法可制裁而且嚴重的破壞我們的國際形象所以在這樣的一個條例當中我也很肯定但是我希望能夠具體化"},{"start":144.858,"end":162.729,"text":"要件更具體化哪一些要件就是我增加了原住民的權利環境的污染智慧財產權等等希望能夠在事前事後能夠做一個很重要具體的審查要件不曉得次長您覺得如何我原因的這個"},{"start":165.083,"end":180.764,"text":"提議是利益非常良好但是因為我們這個是對外去投資的那對外投資其實我們首先要顧的是跟國際的相關規定有沒有去違反那另外關於有一些制裁或是當地原住民的這些文化其實應該是他要回到"},{"start":181.464,"end":205.141,"text":"當地的相關法令這邊來規範因為就是屬於屬地主義所以這一部分如果是列在我們這個我們國內的這個法令其實相對是市長我想這個事前事後審查是不是在經濟部的手上對對但是那我們也剛剛講了其實我們是因為我們發覺到不要到國外國內都無法制裁而且是嚴重"},{"start":206.062,"end":214.857,"text":"影響我們的國際形象所以在事前事後的審查照理說我們的政府應該要去做這樣的一個審核把關"},{"start":216.82,"end":239.63,"text":"因為這個確實這一部分如果說要列到目前這樣規定其實是在審查上是其實是有點是比較你的意思說行為還沒有發生無法審查對因為他要到當地去有產生一些行為之後他才會發生所以是屬於屬地主義如果他違反了當地的相關的規定他就應該要受到當地的那至少我們是不是也可以在我們可以在"},{"start":241.131,"end":241.331,"text":"我們回過頭來看我們國內"},{"start":254.08,"end":277.132,"text":"現在大家都在做地熱的開發那根據我們經濟部地礦中心這是公開的資料我們可以看到在原住民族地區的大概地熱開發佔了67%也就是說很多的地熱開發區呢都在原住民的地區那我在這邊就是要特別想要請教一下因為"},{"start":278.152,"end":293.659,"text":"我過去在礦業法修法的時候我跟洪森漢委員我們在努力之下也成功的把這個諮商同意的指引也納進去了您應該很清楚那現在我要講的是地熱那你看一下這張圖這個是在花蓮萬榮鄉的紅葉看起來就是在抗議但是我想說有時候並不是部落不願意"},{"start":307.799,"end":320.831,"text":"做開發而是有一些問題像這個他們是因為他在私有地上開發結果呢說不需要進行諮商同意引起化軟"},{"start":322.119,"end":340.214,"text":"次長你將心比心今天來到你的家你的部落要進行這樣的開發但是他說因為是私有地不需要跟你們部落的人來談我覺得這是相當不尊重的行為也不會受歡迎啦你再來看這個是台東金峰鄉的金輪"},{"start":341.215,"end":361.985,"text":"你看一個小小的地方 1 2 3 4 4個地熱開發廠有的專炭中 有的開發中 有的已經發電次長重點是也不用進行諮商同意 因為全部都是在私有地也就是說現在廠商很聰明 我們就專門找私有地"},{"start":363.365,"end":388.881,"text":"那我相信很多的是慢慢做比較快啦像這樣子強行進入其實也造成地方很重大的一個反彈那現在第二個問題是也有問題你看看這個是你們能源署2024年12月31公告出來的你看你們也在亂你們竟然把取得原住民諮商同意放在探勘之後"},{"start":390.221,"end":409.315,"text":"鑽探之後那鑽探期間的噪音 廢水甚至很多是公墓的底下難道不需要跟部落的人來去取得他們的同意跟他們來做說明嗎又或者像是這個前置的行政作業要相公所認定"},{"start":409.975,"end":438.632,"text":"那就很奇怪啦因為這個是要部落同意的為什麼要經由鄉公所那經由鄉公所你看像原基法這個部落諮商同意辦法當然他也開了一個後門明明礦產或土石之專探是需要進行諮商同意辦法可是他在另外的地方又說這個主管機關可以認定如果無侵害之餘或促進原住民土地利用可是鄉公所他如果援引他說"},{"start":439.312,"end":449.58,"text":"促進原住民土地利用所以呢可以那怎麼辦呢他就會含釋排除諮商同意所以我現在只是想要問經濟部的態度您認為整個地熱探勘從他一開始的探勘專探階段需不需要經過部落的諮商同意"},{"start":458.187,"end":484.618,"text":"市長你認為這個我們正在研議我們也跟文明會在做討論看要怎麼去把這樣的一個探勘然後以後要設置那個開發要怎麼跟當地的部落還有當地的居民達到一個很和諧的共識這我目前正在研議我們會來檢討我上次參加第一熱的論壇我也有你們的能源署副署長有參加我也有表達那因為時間的關係主席再給我一分鐘我直接講結論那我希望是"},{"start":488.319,"end":510.906,"text":"這個淨零碳排 2050的目標全世界都在走我們對再生能源的需求我們都知道那其實部落也不是不願意來去做這樣的一個能源開發只是需要尊重那像這些歐盟都會開始做一些許可指南加速這個許可流程 簡化這些框架那我是希望說要去做一個行政指引"},{"start":511.346,"end":518.495,"text":"如同我們上次的礦業法一樣好不好讓他更清楚然後我也希望成立地熱專區的示範點以這個金輪你看現在有四個暗場如果能夠做一個地熱專區的示範點我相信未來要做地熱開發的都可以來到這個地方來去參觀"},{"start":528.567,"end":554.545,"text":"那因為我其他的部分的時間的關係我沒有辦法談那我也可能也會在三月份希望呢應大家的要求我會來辦一個地熱的公聽會那我希望很多的問題到時候呢我們一起來討論一起來促成政府的一個政策的目標能夠達成好不好那我也希望原住民能夠成為我們的一個土地的主人能夠成為資源的共享"},{"start":555.345,"end":579.72,"text":"那正是包括今天的財政部國發會也都有來我也希望一併的來提醒因為我也有盤點像金管會的經費或者是財政部的兆元國家的一個方案我都希望是說到時候我們一直要求的那個礦那些資源能源開發的辦法也都有經費我們一同的來促成讓部落看看如何能夠參與好不好 次長好 謝謝您好 謝謝主席"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:09:52.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:10:02.437000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（11時10分）謝謝主席，有請經濟部次長。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-15T11:10:02.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:10:02.817000+08:00","text":"經濟部連次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:10:02.817000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:10:08.433500+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:10:08.433500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:10:14.050000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：次長好。","quality":0.08},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:10:14.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:10:39.096000+08:00","text":"次長，我的簡報上有一張照片，這個是在印尼的蘇拉威西省，他們正在進行開採的是做電動車電池很重要的鎳礦，這個照片當中有一個背影是當地的原住民，我看了這張照片其實很有感，也很感慨，為什麼呢？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:10:39.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:11:29.495000+08:00","text":"因為這就是全世界原住民的一個縮影，在這個開採案裡面也有很多的臺灣企業投入，我們看到這樣的場景總是會想到，國家的法律其實限制了或者不承認原住民他們既有的謀生方式、開墾方式，有很多的法令處處限制，可是我們卻看到國家把森林收為國有，而且允許企業進來開採，我想這樣的一個情景其實是全世界原住民的縮影，變成原住民在自己的土地當工人，而沒有辦法在自己的土地去經營這塊土地，那個是非常令人感到遺憾的。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:11:30.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:11:30.275000+08:00","text":"為什麼我這樣談？","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:11:30.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:12:32.509000+08:00","text":"因為今天委員會排了產業創新條例，我自己也提出了第二十二條的修正動議，基本上，我想我們肯定在這一次的條例當中，可能是基於一些企業，像是之前新聞很大的，就是台塑他們的鋼鐵在越南造成一些污染，我們發現國內、國外都無法可制裁，而且嚴重破壞了我們的國際形象，所以在這樣的一個條例當中，我也很肯定，但是我希望能夠具體化，把要件更具體化，有哪一些要件，就是我增加了原住民的權利、環境的污染、智慧財產權等等，希望能夠在事前事後做一個很重要具體的審查要件，不曉得次長覺得如何？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:12:32.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:13:00.351000+08:00","text":"委員的提議立意非常良好，但是因為這個是對外去投資的，關於對外投資，其實我們首先要顧的是有沒有違反國際的相關規定，另外關於有一些制裁或是當地原住民的這些文化，其實應該是要回到當地的相關法令這邊來規範，因為這是屬於屬地主義，所以這一部分如果是列在我們國內的法令，其實相對是……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:13:01.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:13:05.615000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：次長，這個事前事後的審查是不是在經濟部的手上？","quality":0.442},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:13:06.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:13:07.036000+08:00","text":"對，但是……","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:13:07.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:13:17.485000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我們剛剛也講了，其實是因為我們發覺到不要到國外、國內都無法制裁，而且是嚴重影響我們的國際形象。","quality":0.646},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:13:18.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:13:24.857000+08:00","text":"所以在事前事後的審查，照理說，我們的政府應該要去做審核、把關。","quality":1},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:13:26.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:13:34.464000+08:00","text":"確實這一部分，如果說要列到……目前這樣規定在審查上其實是有點、比較……","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:13:34.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:13:37.345000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：你的意思說行為還沒有發生，無法審查？","quality":0.421},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:13:37.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:13:47.029000+08:00","text":"對，因為它要到當地去，有產生一些行為之後它才會發生，所以是屬於屬地主義，如果它違反了當地的相關的規定，它就應該要受到當地的法律規範……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:13:47.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:13:49.430000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那至少我們是不是也可以在我們的……","quality":0.378},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:13:49.430000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:13:50.430000+08:00","text":"我們可以在審查規定中去加註，去提醒它要去注意這些東西。","quality":0.12},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:13:50.430000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:13:51.430000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝，我覺得要把它列入，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:13:51.430000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:13:52.430000+08:00","text":"我們提醒它要善盡責任。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:13:52.430000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:13:53.430000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:13:51.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:14:40.177000+08:00","text":"那我們回過頭來看我們國內，現在大家都在做地熱的開發，根據經濟部地礦中心的資料，這是公開的資料，我們可以看到在原住民族地區的地熱大概占了開發的67%，也就是說，很多的地熱開發區都在原住民的地區，我在這邊想要特別請教一下，因為過去在礦業法修法的時候，在我跟洪申翰委員的努力之下，也成功的把諮商同意的指引納進去了，您應該很清楚。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:14:40.177000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:14:41.177000+08:00","text":"對，我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:14:40.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:15:27.052000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：現在我要講的是地熱，你看一下這張圖，這個是在花蓮萬榮鄉的紅葉部落，看起來就是在抗議，但是我想說，有時候並不是部落不願意做開發，而是有一些問題，像這個，他們是因為它在私有地上開發，結果說不需要進行諮商同意，引起譁然，次長你將心比心，今天來到你的家、你的部落要進行這樣的開發，但是它說因為是私有地，不需要跟你們部落的人來談，我覺得這是相當不尊重的行為，也不會受歡迎啦！","quality":0.849},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:15:27.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:16:03.111000+08:00","text":"再來這個是臺東金峰鄉的金崙，這一個小小的地方有4個地熱開發廠，有的鑽探中、有的開發中、有的已經發電，次長，重點是也不用進行諮商同意，因為全部都是在私有地，也就是說，現在廠商很聰明，就專門找私有地，我相信很多的事慢慢做比較快，像這樣子強行進入，其實也造成地方很重大的一個反彈。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:16:03.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:16:34.491000+08:00","text":"第二個問題，你看看，這是你們能源署2024年12月31日公告出來的，你看，你們也在亂，你們竟然把取得原住民諮商同意放在探勘之後、鑽探之後，那鑽探期間的噪音、廢水，甚至很多是在公墓的底下，難道不需要取得部落的人的同意，跟他們來做說明嗎？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:16:34.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:16:45.778000+08:00","text":"又或者像是這個，前置的行政作業要鄉公所認定，那就很奇怪，因為這個是要部落同意的，為什麼要經由鄉公所？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:16:46.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:17:13.576000+08:00","text":"那經由鄉公所，你看，像原基法部落諮商同意辦法，當然它也開了一個後門，明明礦產或土石之鑽探是需要進行諮商同意辦法，可是在另外的地方又說主管機關可以認定，如果無侵害之虞或促進原住民土地利用，可是鄉公所如果援引說促進原住民土地利用所以可以，那怎麼辦呢？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:17:14.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:17:19.560000+08:00","text":"它就會函釋排除諮商同意，所以我現在只是想要問經濟部的態度，您認為整個地熱探勘，從一開始的探勘鑽探階段，需不需要經過部落的諮商同意？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:17:28.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:17:28.947000+08:00","text":"次長你認為呢？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:17:28.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:17:44.194000+08:00","text":"這個我們正在研議，我們也會跟原民會再來討論，看要怎麼把這樣的一個探勘，以後如果要設置開發，要怎麼跟當地的部落還有當地的居民，達到一個很和諧的共識，這個我們目前正在研議，我們會來檢討。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:17:44.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:17:50.076000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我上次參加地熱的論壇，你們能源署副署長有參加。有。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:17:50.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:17:54.418000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我也有表達，因為時間的關係，主席再給我1分鐘，我直接講結論。","quality":0.532},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:17:58.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:18:23.228000+08:00","text":"這個淨零碳排2050的目標，世界都在走，我們對再生能源的需求我們都知道，其實部落也不是不願意去做這樣的能源開發，只是需要尊重，像這些歐盟都會開始做一些許可指南，加速這個許可流程，簡化這些框架，我希望要去做一個行政指引，如同我們上次的礦業法一樣，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:18:23.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:18:24.410000+08:00","text":"讓它更清楚。好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:18:24.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:18:58.060000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：然後我也希望成立地熱專區的示範點，以這個金崙，你看現在有4個案場，能夠做一個地熱專區的示範點，我相信未來要做地熱開發的，都可以來到這個地方參觀，我其他的部分因為時間的關係沒有辦法談，我可能也會在3月份，應大家的要求，來辦一個地熱的公聽會，我希望很多的問題到時候我們一起來討論，一起來促成政府的政策目標，讓它能夠達成，好不好？好。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:18:58.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:19:28.959000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我也希望原住民能夠成為我們土地的一個主人，能夠讓資源的共享，今天包括財政部、甚至國發會也都有來，我也希望一併的來提醒，因為我也有盤點，像金管會的經費或者是財政部的兆元國家方案，我都希望到時候我們一直要求的那些資源、能源開發的辦法也都有經費，我們一同來促成，看看如何能讓部落參與，次長好不好？","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:19:29.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:19:29.560000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:19:30.060000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:19:38.345714+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝您、謝謝主席。","quality":0.172},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-15T11:19:38.645714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:19:43.502857+08:00","text":"下會期我連任召委的話我幫你排公聽會。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-01-15T11:19:43.802857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:19:50.660000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-15T11:19:50.960000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:19:52.960000+08:00","text":"如果有連任的話。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-15T11:19:53.260000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:19:56.402857+08:00","text":"下一位請賴瑞隆委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}