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4,"end":2465.186,"text":"那第17條的部分主要我們全國的村里長已經有7748人村里長的工作壓力非常非常的大所以里當應該要給予春節慰問金所以本期的提案是1.5個月的春節慰問金另外最重要的也就是說因為我們的村里長沒有薪資所以我村里長在他們"},{"start":2466.567,"end":2483.215,"text":"應供商王的這個部分應該給予這個協助跟補助這個是特別來提出敬請各位同仁以及行政部門我們一起盡快研討完成可以更加的讓我們整個的體制更加的完整"},{"start":2484.984,"end":2504.451,"text":"好謝謝謝謝我們楊從英委員的信託那我跟各位報告因為我這一次有安排我們內政委員會針對我們村里長明代的我們的金額的提高以及我們的補助費因為我是來自最基層我是"},{"start":2505.331,"end":2522.405,"text":"做過市民代表以及縣議員市議員到現在立法委員所以地方的事務我非常的清楚所以我還特別擔任召委特別來辦這一次我們的明太明太的事務會以及我們村里長"},{"start":2523.907,"end":2538.257,"text":"的費用所以我也很感謝國民黨的共識還有民眾黨還有民進黨大家的共同的共識才來出委員會那現在我們下一位就請我們徐新穎委員"},{"start":2547.581,"end":2563.14,"text":"謝謝主席我想今天非常多的委員提出來那本席的版本最主要說明就是有關目前縣市議員還有鄉鎮市民代表的研究費按照現行的規定縣市議員是新台幣83,150元"},{"start":2565.743,"end":2580.795,"text":"相信市民代表是61830元這樣的費用呢對於一個民意代表會及民意運行民主的機制這種重要性來說這個費用實在太低了而且工作也是非常的繁重所以"},{"start":2582.636,"end":2603.629,"text":"本條例第3條規定直轄市議員的研究費標準是參照直轄市政府所屬一級機關首長包含了本縫專業家級以及主管職務家級而立法委員行為法第13條也有規定立法委員的待遇是比照中央部會首長"},{"start":2604.409,"end":2624.83,"text":"由此可見民意代表的待遇應該要完全的比照所監督政府之一級機關首長的待遇但是現行的縣市議員還有鄉鎮市民代表的研究費的標準並沒有納入主管職務佳績所以本席認為應該加以修正那本席的提案修正之後"},{"start":2625.65,"end":2654.63,"text":"縣市議員的研究費會提升到新台幣102280元鄉鎮市民代表則會提升到69350元不但符合實際需要而且跟立法委員直轄市的政府議長議員還有縣市議會的政府議長鄉鎮市的政府主席的代表的待遇也較為平衡所以再來就是"},{"start":2655.37,"end":2684.362,"text":"每一個縣市議員他的助理費的這個總額呢現行規定是8萬元但是助理的工作繁重程度呢按照現行規定不夠彈性不只不利於縣市議員的問政工作也不利於助理的勞動權益所以本席提案修正將縣市議員每月助理補助費用總額提升到新台幣15萬元敬請各位委員支持本席提案謝謝"},{"start":2687.959,"end":2691.445,"text":"謝謝 謝謝我們新書院委員那我們下一位王美惠委員謝謝"},{"start":2699.059,"end":2709.962,"text":"只是在這本身提案說明在這裏面我覺得說在上禮拜後大家都看到什麼叫做割地外賣在這個里長的存摘會員金的獎金也好在議員的助理也好我覺得今天你們看到每一棟大家都很關意來這裡"},{"start":2727.768,"end":2732.373,"text":"討論：因為在本縣所了解：和我聽會期所做的：我們有討論說里長的事務費4萬5條錢及5萬：這是一個有當當的政府就是說：要怎樣去比較去做好好：來讓我們的當地里長"},{"start":2752.947,"end":2753.487,"text":"我認為這是大家要討論大家要看怎樣"},{"start":2770.58,"end":2770.6,"text":"議員．審查"},{"start":2789.725,"end":2793.267,"text":"去瞭解這個財政的問題：我相信里長提供獎金7萬5就等於15萬位有時候我在早上的時候里長都說：我們這樣做到要死、服務到要死：我們是不是到時候若我們鼓勵一下這個"},{"start":2811.144,"end":2829.318,"text":"每年代表這個收金我隨時找我告訴你委員我又聽回去為什麼有說了這件事是不是我又再次提出跟前面你們差不多覺得怎麼樣剛好你剛才說我不要要求多少我教你們的收金一樣一句半話一句半話就是"},{"start":2837.964,"end":2849.727,"text":"7萬5所以本身也提這個提案草案的選擇可以在里長提出7萬5的獎金再來做你的選擇我也來做第一次我做過議員說實在的一個專業的議員真的說都沒有做什麼什麼都要服務的選擇真的"},{"start":2861.93,"end":2861.95,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":2891.906,"end":2897.308,"text":"王美惠委員王美惠委員王美惠委員王美惠委員王美惠委員王美惠委員"},{"start":2926.351,"end":2943.738,"text":"議員跟媒體記者大家好我是來自地方那最主要是要來表達就是我們直轄市跟縣市議員的助理費用24年沒有調整所以本席是調高到每席每月不得超過新台幣32萬與16萬元那立法院並"},{"start":2949.658,"end":2966.751,"text":"並參照明定公費助理適用勞動基準法及卓以春節慰問金還有他的加班費勞工保險費及全民健康保險費勞工退休金支雇主應繳提繳的部分有議會列預算之印"},{"start":2968.434,"end":2992.061,"text":"參考立法院組織法第32條規定明定公費助理補助費用總額加班費、之前費及職業災害補償等補助費用應該比照軍公教員工待遇來調整還有村里長的工作防守及類似24小時的服務他們的事業補助費應該是調高到5萬5千元並"},{"start":2994.045,"end":3000.032,"text":"主要與春節慰問經濟出國考察費用令提高他的意外保險到1000萬元以上"},{"start":3023.216,"end":3046.716,"text":"好謝謝主席謝謝各位大家不分黨派的要支持這一次民代條例的修正那因為其實這件事情我從過去在議會當議員的時候每一個會期都都非常努力的在呼籲那當然過去在議會也是希望說中央可以傾聽到我們地方的聲音那現在有機會來到立法院我第一時間就馬上送案了"},{"start":3048.477,"end":3061.005,"text":"民意代表費從2000年立法以來議會助理的費用總而從來都沒有調整過直轄市的補助支都是24萬縣市議員則是8萬相較之下這20年消費物價指數上漲了23%軍工教也調薪了5次達到了16%基本工資的漲幅則是73%在這樣子所有的指數都陸續的調漲之下"},{"start":3077.716,"end":3101.308,"text":"連立法委員的公費助理的費用也都有隨著軍公教的條幅不斷的在調整當中唯獨就是地方縣市的議員的助理並沒有所以過去我也都努力的想要把我的議員來爭取那所以在我的版本裡面也是希望我們助理可以有更合理的待遇讓這些做政治工作的助理他們也認為這是一個有尊嚴的工作有專業的工作所以"},{"start":3104.249,"end":3132.906,"text":"包括加班費、資遣費還有這些比較軍公教調整的比例我都認為應該要放進去讓這個待遇可以更正常化讓政治工作的環境是更健康的也提升我們的問政品質那村里長也就更重要了過去三年期間在疫情期間村里長非常非常的辛苦他們對社會的貢獻也是大家都看得見所以我也修法支持村里長的年終獎金增加到七萬五千元"},{"start":3133.266,"end":3141.553,"text":"以及原住民議員的問民服務費還有原住民的村里長的事務補助費也要增加10%希望超越的黨派大家一起來支持謝謝"},{"start":3156.244,"end":3180.652,"text":"主席我們以後同仁本期這次的提案說明我也跟各位報告我在上一屆跟完美會委員我們都共同提出我們的里長事務費增加了五千塊就來到五萬塊那這一次因為我們民代還有我們的里長大家所提出的因為我們都是來自基層我當過"},{"start":3182.586,"end":3197.142,"text":"市民代表、縣議員、市議員、立法委員所以我們都非常了解地方的里長以及我們地方的民代的心聲所以我這次也提出了就是我們的里長能比照我們的春節慰問金1.5個月"},{"start":3203.428,"end":3203.848,"text":"議員的處理會根本都不夠"},{"start":3233.345,"end":3234.006,"text":"國民黨及民眾黨及民進黨共事"},{"start":3262.072,"end":3266.136,"text":"感謝吳政委提案說明,請吳立法委員提案說明"},{"start":3301.684,"end":3313.1,"text":"主席各位立院同仁各位行政機關同仁大家早安武力化做提案說明今天的提案呢我要先感謝內政部跟行政院"},{"start":3314.201,"end":3334.766,"text":"因為今年討論的這個條例從2000年制定施行以來第一次看到行政部門主動提出大幅的調升不僅修正議員助理的聘任制度及相關費用更主動的考量原住民族服務的範圍交通的特殊性而增加補助"},{"start":3335.806,"end":3353.065,"text":"事實上我在行政院上位推出版本之前也已經透過質詢公文反映了地方的意見上一屆也提出過村里長事務費提高5000的修法版本所以我非常樂見行政院提出的條例草案"},{"start":3354.026,"end":3377.649,"text":"內政部參考基本工資跟物價的調升：把直轄市議員的衛民服務費從2萬調升到4萬現市議員從9千調升到2萬代表從3千調升到5千為基數並且特別考量原住民族地區的服務成本額外增加10%的金額作為地方民代服務的費用所以我也提出我的草案修正重點如下"},{"start":3378.63,"end":3390.614,"text":"第5條在原條文不作變動的情況下我參著內政部對第5條附表的修正將為民服務費提升直轄市議員從2萬提升到4萬縣市議員從9千調升到2萬鄉鎮市民代表從3千調到5千另外我也在附註中註明"},{"start":3396.756,"end":3425.376,"text":"原住民的直轄縣市議員及鄉鎮市民代表為民服務費每人每月增加10%第二在第6條參考基本公司及物價指數提升地方民意代表的助理補助費將直轄市議員的助理補助費提升到30萬縣市議員的助理補助費提升到14萬鄉民代表的助理補助費提高到6萬以及要求議會及代表會應據此基準發放年終及春節問老金那最後呢"},{"start":3425.816,"end":3443.028,"text":"我要再次提醒我提案版本的不同之處除了各項費用的挑針我也特別關心注意地方民代鄉鎮市民代表的需求那懇請各位委員特別是原住民委員的支持那希望大家一同來支持這一次的修法謝謝好謝謝我們的吳立法委員的提案聲明那我們下一位請我們的吳佩儀委員"},{"start":3465.334,"end":3484.324,"text":"謝謝主席我針對我們地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費的條例也提出了我的修正草案的版本那我過去在市議會服務5年然後跟我們的地方的助理跨縣市的助理成立了提升助理"},{"start":3485.144,"end":3490.748,"text":"在參與的過程當中我們感受到台灣其實有非常多的年輕人願意把他們的熱情把他們的人生來投注在為民服務的工作但是我們也感覺到因為為民服務的這個範疇事實上是無窮無盡的這個時間可能是從清晨3點到晚上10點11點"},{"start":3508.3,"end":3529.995,"text":"而這個範圍的類型包括了選民的服務地方社區的關懷以及法案的政策相關的研究事實上範圍也是非常廣的那韋伯有一句話說政治就是要並施熱心跟判斷力緩慢的去穿透木板的工作但是我們如何讓我們最基層的政治工作者"},{"start":3530.655,"end":3553.7,"text":"在穿透木板的過程當中不要先被木板壓倒了所以這個勞動條件的提升至合理化至對它是非常的重要所以呢這次這個法案的修正條例第一個我們就希望來提高助理的薪資至合理的條件因為我們已經24年都沒有去調整我的版本是這個六都議員的助理的薪資我希望提升至總額36萬"},{"start":3555.58,"end":3555.6,"text":"議員．審查"},{"start":3576.84,"end":3601.043,"text":"以台北市議會為例市議會其實已經準備好要編列這個預算就待這個修法通過之後我們就可以讓我們在地方的這些議員的助理得到符合相應的勞動的條件所以呢我要再次的感謝很多人大家的支持那也希望今天的提案可以順利的來通過讓我們的政治工作者能夠"},{"start":3601.724,"end":3606.648,"text":"在適合合理跟正當的勞動條件下繼續來為民服務謝謝"},{"start":3629.215,"end":3653.875,"text":"非常謝謝今天召委排了這個地方民意代表費用支給和村里長事務補助費的補助條例的草案提案說明那麼今天我有兩案其實呢我們就不針對這個因為所有的民進黨也好民眾黨也好國民黨團也好大家都對於這個部分是特別特別的關注所以今天非常多的委員都提了版本但是我要特別對於原住民族的部分"},{"start":3654.475,"end":3670.857,"text":"對於原住民族的部分我們會看到村里長的服務品質其實是要求日據提升的然後他們除了為民服務之外他還要替政府地方政府來宣導所有的政策他們盡力要扮演好人民跟政府之間的窗口"},{"start":3672.057,"end":3699.154,"text":"這導致各地方的村里長他的工作日益的增加然後又因為近年的物價通盤嚴重然後村里長的事務費不敷使用所以我非常感謝3月8日在召委提案之前3月8日我們的部長到我辦公室來的時候我跟他提到對於原住民地區還有偏鄉地區不管是議員的助理費用或者是他的衛民服務費用或者是這個村里長事務補助費用"},{"start":3699.734,"end":3724.687,"text":"如果齊頭式的跟一般的民代一般的議員同樣增加費用的話這是不公平的不公平所以呢謝謝部長也特別針對原住民的部分還有村這個偏鄉的部分對於這個極具的距離呢他會有通盤的檢討然後再增加10%不管是議員的這個為民服務費"},{"start":3728.048,"end":3750.836,"text":"10%增加10%或是村長的事務補助費10%增加10%我都覺得這是非常合理的我認為呢我舉一個例子來說好了花蓮縣的秀林鄉它的富士村它的面積要比台北市基隆市新竹市還有澎湖縣還要大"},{"start":3752.216,"end":3765.813,"text":"所以我們在各個的委員版本裏面並沒有提到這個所謂的極具的差距的部分但是在我的版本有提到也非常謝謝我們的部長的支持我希望這個增加的費用"},{"start":3767.099,"end":3789.266,"text":"除了要好好討論之外我們也希望是來中央來增加這個費用因為如果讓地方來配合這個費用的話越窮的縣市他要提出的這個金額相對的就越困難所以今天在討論的部分可能會針對於除了這個費用的提高之外可能還會討論到"},{"start":3791.846,"end":3808.133,"text":"這筆經費到底是由地方支付還是由中央來支付我希望今天大家如果有共識的話大家可以好好的討論畢竟這是所有民意代表跟村里長他們長期以來的不公以上謝謝"},{"start":3816.243,"end":3818.894,"text":"那下一位請吳錫臻吳錫臻委員的提案說明"},{"start":3834.925,"end":3860.124,"text":"主席還有各位官員各位委員大家好今天的提案說明主要是針對地方民意代表跟村里長的補助費的第7條的提案說明因為大家都知道村里長是最基本最基礎的我們的民選的行政首長但在實際的這個行政體系中他並沒有太多的自主的這個決策權但承攬了大多數的基層的服務的工作"},{"start":3860.504,"end":3877.501,"text":"不但要主動服務民眾還要配合政府的政令宣導還需要整合社區的資源而且提高對村里民的服務所以村里長的辛勞比起民意代表可以說是有過之而無不及所以在地方上我們都常常暱稱村里長是土地公"},{"start":3878.101,"end":3900.675,"text":"因為他們真的是守護地方最重要的最基層的第一環當然我想常常也都是一人當選全家在服務甚至鄰里的糾紛的調解甚至黑白喜商的節慶村里長不只要協助還要協助家屬處理各項的細節這都是村里長的日常的業務工作"},{"start":3901.095,"end":3916.385,"text":"那尤其村里長事務補助費在民國111年4月15號經立法院三讀通過從4萬5調整到5萬元那調整的幅度只有11%但主計總署公布2023年每人每月的薪資平均是5萬5千"},{"start":3917.746,"end":3917.966,"text":"村里長的補助費"},{"start":3934.941,"end":3962.328,"text":"2022年調高的五千塊都被這個通膨跟台電吃掉所以目前村里長事務補助費並沒有辦法反映村里長的這個現實生活的需要所以本席在這邊修正我們的第七條草案希望能夠支應除了發放村里長的春節慰問金增加到七萬五千元也希望能夠支應其保險費、健康檢查費還有衛民服務費三千元以照顧村里長的日常所需"},{"start":3963.408,"end":3968.671,"text":"還有針對這個部分因為地方的財源困難希望這個財源也能夠由中央買單謝謝"},{"start":3995.74,"end":3998.383,"text":"提出第6條的修正說明"},{"start":4013.7,"end":4029.386,"text":"這個條例為什麼必須要提出來做討論在目前的規定裡面縣市議員的助理費8萬在目前我們的國民的基本工資已經從24年前的15840調整到27470那這一個27000"},{"start":4041.004,"end":4055.456,"text":"470呢在縣市議員他已經沒有辦法聘請到第三位助理所以你看這一個問題我們應不應該來修正那從縣市議員的這個助理費回推我們的直轄市議員的助理費一樣"},{"start":4056.477,"end":4074.405,"text":"也已經超過24年沒有修正的調整了所以我們提出了修正希望從縣市議員助理開始做一些調整之外連帶直轄市議員的助理費也相關做一個調整那剛剛有其他委員提到目前"},{"start":4075.766,"end":4098.498,"text":"我們這個社會新鮮人的平均起薪已到三萬五千元中位數到三萬一在地方議會沒有做這些調整的同時已經沒有辦法再聘請到有更年輕的助理願意投入這個公共事業的行公共事務的行列所以我們提出這個修正也希望"},{"start":4099.366,"end":4123.306,"text":"不但在立法院那在地方議會也可以有年輕的心血投入公共事務得到合理的薪資以外那我來自高雄也受到高雄原民的這些請託對於直轄市議員在山區的直轄市議員的原住民的議員為民服務費也一併的來希望可以做出調整謝謝"},{"start":4127.063,"end":4128.164,"text":"李玉琳委員"},{"start":4142.698,"end":4171.172,"text":"謝謝主席各位同仁大家好在我們立法委員的提案借期是沒有延續的所以在新的會期我們都會重新提案所以沒有割到尾的情形那今天針對於地方民意代表的費用的支付以村里長事務費用的補助我這條例第6條的修文的條例的修正本席也提出了這個建議有鑑於這地方議會公費助理薪資補助"},{"start":4174.215,"end":4186.046,"text":"總額已經超過了24年都沒有做調整心知無法及時的反映現實生活的需要所以提出了地方民意代表費用支付跟我們村里長事務"},{"start":4187.307,"end":4188.208,"text":"本期的提案是要刪除第一項聘用公費助理人"},{"start":4213.231,"end":4215.952,"text":"提供議員聘用助理的彈性。議會議員公費助理在任用資格的"},{"start":4232.521,"end":4261.076,"text":"更能夠因應可能比照公務機關鼓勵禁用身心障礙的人士另外還有提案要刪除原條文的第二項前段的但書取消直轄市的議員縣市議員公費助理每人每月支領金額不得超過新台幣8萬元之上限並賦予議員得以聘用部分時間工作公費助理"},{"start":4261.696,"end":4278.421,"text":"因為議員服務地方的面向是非常的多元又無法聘用部分工時的助理容易造成了工作時間跟聘用時間不明確的這種情形所以增加了用人的彈性方能夠應驗實際上問政及服務民眾的需求"},{"start":4282.962,"end":4308.117,"text":"進於現行的法規面並沒有將這個適用的勞動基準法的規定由議會來編列經費資應之相關的費用項目的名列所以雖然說有民事比照立法院的公費助理的模式來辦理但是就各議會的編列資應之相關費用項目中央主管機關要採用"},{"start":4310.318,"end":4335.047,"text":"現說的解釋限制了加班費跟資錢費跟職業災害補償等等的相互的編列與立法院實際的運作情形並沒有一致所以衍生了各個議會預算編列跟執行的疑義所以為了要落實現行的法例保障地方議會的公費助理勞動權益跟他杜絕一些爭議"},{"start":4337.087,"end":4359.615,"text":"與明定項目及金額以致明確,以致市併價之保障,亦應同上法議。以上的提案再次的懇請所有的同仁大家的支持。謝謝。好,謝謝我們李毓民的提案說明。我們下一位我們王毓民委員的提案說明。"},{"start":4368.11,"end":4368.35,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":4386.221,"end":4399.553,"text":"已經24年都沒有修了那我們知道24年的變化其實非常的大包括我們看到基本工資已經從15840條漲到現在的27470已經漲了超過七成了而一般的這個消費者的這個物價指數的漲幅也都有近三成的這樣的一個漲幅"},{"start":4410.323,"end":4438.263,"text":"所以應該是回過頭來檢討這24年都沒有修法的這個條例那我們可以看到這個這次的修法有幾項重點第一個就是在人力的部分那我們看到政院版就是把這個聘用的公費助理直轄市變成至少7人先議員至少3人但是本期提出來的版本是希望給予更大的彈性就是"},{"start":4439.364,"end":4444.892,"text":"直轄市至少6人現市議員助理至少2人讓地方議員有更大彈性去用人另外助理費用部分"},{"start":4454.867,"end":4473.358,"text":"政院版的在直轄市的部分呢他是從原來的24萬提高到30萬但本席認為這樣的幅度還是太小那我提出來的部分是希望可以提高到36萬而在縣市議會的部分也很高興看到政院版是提高到14萬"},{"start":4475.72,"end":4495.18,"text":"這個應該是大家可以共同來支持那另外一個比較重要的是希望未來這樣子的一個補助地方議員的加班費、支錢費跟職災補償費用就是民文化那另外一個是應該要比照軍公教待遇來進行調整那我們希望說今天這樣的一個討論從剛剛多位委員的發言"},{"start":4498.203,"end":4510.971,"text":"大家都有這樣的共識希望這個條例可以修正通過那我們讓地方的議會還有議員他們在執行各項任務的時候是可以得到更多的保障以上謝謝好謝謝我們王立民委員的提案說明那下一位我們請李彥秀委員的提案說明"},{"start":4525.763,"end":4546.095,"text":"早安各位部長各位同仁大家早安今天審議這兩個條例其實我們大家都知道這兩個條例其實過去歷屆其實很多的地方機構包括很多里長其實都到立法院來陳情所以今天終於有機會草野大家都有這個共識要來處理這個法案過去20年到24年其實我們幾乎都"},{"start":4551.038,"end":4578.048,"text":"沒有修正過相關的這兩個條例相關的費用我們勞基法的基本薪資總共調整了17次我們軍公教在過去20年總共也調整6次但是我們地方議會議員的助理費用包括里長相關的費用其實我們幾乎都沒有調整為了讓更多的年輕人包括我們這幾次我們都在談勞基法的修正我們希望相關的勞動條件"},{"start":4579.868,"end":4604.838,"text":"更合乎我們現在要與時俱進所以包括在這一次我的修正條文裡面無論對於地方議會的助理費的調整還有包括接下來加班費資遣費包括相關的職業災害的補償我都認為應該要比照勞基法特別是我們都知道公共事務的投入其實是沒有上下班的"},{"start":4605.578,"end":4625.313,"text":"所以在這一塊我覺得相關的費用我們立法院更應該重視所以在這一次我的修正條文裡面包括用人的彈性包括助理的待遇還有補助費用的總額我都覺得應該讓各地方議會考量之後調整那我們也都知道在里長的部分從全國法規的資料庫裡面把關鍵字里長"},{"start":4629.096,"end":4632.66,"text":"就會有119筆的法規內容扣除掉廢除的法規其實還有7、80筆法規是需要里長配合中央相關的規範規定來推動地方的事務譬如說統計災害等等還有包括社會的安全網包括進行自殺防治通報等業務這都是里長的工作"},{"start":4652.62,"end":4673.934,"text":"所以這一次除了部長提出來的春節的這個慰問金等等我更認為也應該修正比較地方民代補助為民的服務費反映實際的支出然後我覺得這個是比較合乎現在里長的工作以上我希望有機會修正討論之後能夠讓各位同仁支持謝謝"},{"start":4678.066,"end":4686.272,"text":"好,謝謝李恩秀委員的提案說明。下一位我們請徐巧欣委員的提案說明。好,來。"},{"start":4701.243,"end":4717.856,"text":"謝謝主席那我想呢今天非常開心能夠在這裡做這個提案說明因為我自己本身就是出自於市議會那在台北市議會裡面當時我們就我還是市議員的時候大家就"},{"start":4718.796,"end":4742.123,"text":"經常的憤憤不平我覺得為什麼立法院對於這麼不合理的議員的公費助理費遲遲的都沒有修法那當時我在競選的過程當中也承諾所有的議員同仁不管是市議會或是認識的縣議會的其他朋友很多不合理的地方我們就是應該要來面對修法來改變它"},{"start":4747.099,"end":4775.37,"text":"許多委員都提案表達過助理費24年沒有調整過不再贅述那有關於公費助理適用勞基法的相關費用現行條文沒有明列各地方議會編列經費指引項目導致先前發生了內政部跟議會適用的異議以台北市議會為例包含是加班費等等的都沒有辦法執行"},{"start":4776.601,"end":4792.739,"text":"那以台北市議會來說年紀都相當的輕大概平均39.4歲年資5.3年工作可能不超過兩年就離職了代表我們現在的薪資條件對於這些助理來說是留不久的"},{"start":4793.32,"end":4817.668,"text":"那認證品質也沒有辦法提升所以我希望的是說我們在提案版本裡面包含是薪資多少就是總而可以討論之外還希望修正一個主要的點希望可以得到大家的同意就是放寬人數的比例我知道目前放到7個可是我覺得以我過去的經驗其實還是不夠希望可以放到5個到6個"},{"start":4820.39,"end":4839.531,"text":"讓專業的助理能夠取得比較高的薪資再來就是臨時的部分有的時候我們會有一些臨時的助理或者是說臨時需要來的人但是他沒有辦法適用全額的薪資那就沒有辦法聘用那也希望這一部分能夠放寬謝謝"},{"start":4844.377,"end":4849.988,"text":"好謝謝我們徐小新委員的提案說明那下一位我們請蔡奕宜委員的提案說明"},{"start":4862.877,"end":4879.165,"text":"謝謝主席那本席就我所提案的來做提案說明那主要是針對這一個議員那以及村里長那我們這一次行政院有建議那議員的助理來做一個修法"},{"start":4879.645,"end":4894.021,"text":"那這個修法的部分主要是針對他們的聘用助理他們的聘僱關係那以及說他們是否可以投保在這個議會然後讓他們助理有更好的一個保障那之後"},{"start":4895.263,"end":4909.437,"text":"也有包括說所謂助理的人數的限制希望可以來做一個放寬然後這個助理的一個補助費的上限然後買下來做指定提款那事實上我有相對應的提案那"},{"start":4910.538,"end":4933.335,"text":"我還是要強調事實上我們每次在討論這一個議員的一個助理的一個補助上限的時候我們都可以看出直轄市跟非直轄市非常大的一個落差那為什麼同樣是在做地方的服務就比如說像我們在在我的選區的助理他在布袋一族在經營地方"},{"start":4933.815,"end":4951.921,"text":"然後再服務鄉親跟隔壁的新營鹽水事實上就是一個巴展西之閣但是他們的助理的一個聘用的人數卻是差一倍包括本身議員的薪水也是差了一倍那我們實在是不懂那為什麼會有這樣的一個落差"},{"start":4952.461,"end":4973.542,"text":"那這樣是不是凸顯了城鄉的一個不公平而且事實上如果我剛剛所舉例的根本是同樣的一個生活圈在同樣的生活圈的議員卻有截然不同的一個待遇這個是一個我覺得很不公平的地方那也希望可以透過今天的討論大家來思考這件事第二個"},{"start":4974.182,"end":4991.45,"text":"我要去跟請內政部這邊可以去思考像我們立委我們的助理我們聘請的費用事實上都超出了依法可以給我們的一個預算所以都已經超出了但是超出的一個部分人數超出我們卻沒有辦法"},{"start":4994.552,"end":5014.412,"text":"讓這些助理可以同樣投保在國會或者議員可以投保在議會事實上這又凸顯一個問題就是說我們還要另外再去用一個投保單位讓助理又有不一樣的一個待遇那我的具體建議還是希望說能夠讓我們的所聘用的助理一樣投保在國會或議會"},{"start":5016.454,"end":5029.161,"text":"如果中間需要有去做一個短叉要去補的部分我們也願意補只是我們希望可以讓助理都有平等的一個待遇不管是議會跟國會我覺得都有這樣的狀況好謝謝"},{"start":5046.023,"end":5070.01,"text":"謝謝主席首先還是要感謝主席借助把這個地方民意代表費用及支給及村里長的這個事務補助會快入排審那也特別感謝內政部我們的林部長因為從基層上來對這個事情得重視不過有幾個面向可能要特別再度提醒一下有時候我們要改可能就要改得徹底一點我當然有相關提案"},{"start":5070.59,"end":5090.166,"text":"我自己的提案裡面我從村里長事務會從一般縣市議員之下縣市議員包含鄉鎮市民代表的衛民服務會幾個面向都來做相關的討論我覺得這樣似乎比較周全一些我自己從基層的民代市民代表上來"},{"start":5092.248,"end":5112.381,"text":"部長還是說我們各位同仁能不能理解為什麼中央的民代我們可以領薪資然後可以領研究會然後還有衛民服務會那地方的議員地方代表基本上他們只有研究會然後他們沒有薪資然後他們是開會的時候領取出席會"},{"start":5113.55,"end":5130.401,"text":"一個臺灣一個民意代表的制度從中央到地方基本上通通不一樣這個是要一國兩制那如果今天我們願意來面對這個事情應該就要快速的來做相關的一些調整跟因應這是其一其二"},{"start":5131.521,"end":5158.196,"text":"這還是要特別感謝阿扁前總統所以在2000年的時候也曾經有修正明代資金條例當時的代表里長我記得我當代表的時候一個月的研究會是194702000年的時候修正完之後才提高變成49470那是代表會的代表的研究會一直到現在是因為有3%4%的逐年的做這樣調整才可以達到6萬多塊"},{"start":5160.239,"end":5186.219,"text":"相對的一般縣市的議員也是如此那我是要讓大家去思考一件事情為什麼立法委員就是中央的民意代表直轄縣市一般縣市的議員就是地方的民意代表包含鄉鎮市民意代表他也就是地方民意代表為什麼在秦嶺的科目項目裡面會這麼大的窘然不同所以我還是希望說等一下在討論過程裡面"},{"start":5187.18,"end":5205.451,"text":"我當然有在相關的這些提案然後也希望透過修正動議可以更加的聚集民意擴大的來把這事情好好的討論好讓大家可以共同來面對這事情把台灣的制度定好不要連監督機關的相關的領取的費用"},{"start":5205.891,"end":5224.73,"text":"都會這麼樣的不一樣這麼樣的多次這對台灣整體的這個政治的發展而言不是一件好事再多謝謝部長也謝謝主席來排審這個案子謝謝大家謝謝好謝謝我們劉建國委員的提案說明那下一位我們請黃建斌委員提案說明"},{"start":5233.464,"end":5249.712,"text":"謝謝主席,感謝主席,我想在場很多我們的前輩都是從基層去生的,有些從議員,有些是從鄉民代表那像本席其實還有擔任過代理的村幹事,今天一路從基層去看了這麼多問題"},{"start":5252.393,"end":5252.433,"text":"主席"},{"start":5272.114,"end":5272.194,"text":"主席"},{"start":5288.487,"end":5307.637,"text":"所以我們一定要我本期會提的樣子是希望能夠藉由這一次的修法讓我們的基層服務能夠更加的安心買單給他們或一個高利貸這是這次提案最主要的原因再一次的也希望我們草原能夠共通來為這件事來努力讓這件事能夠順利通過謝謝主席好謝謝我們黃建斌委員提案說明那下一位我們請曾振銓委員提案說明"},{"start":5322.958,"end":5349.932,"text":"謝謝主席今天特別安排了地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例的修正的議程那我想說鑒於議員服務形態所以時代改變已經有很大的不一樣那助理費用也已經超過18年沒有調整所以本期這邊的提案其實有三個重點第一個是取消聘用公費助理上限規定並調整並調整下限具體江子牙市議會的"},{"start":5352.473,"end":5365.741,"text":"議員助理配用公費助理從6到8人調整成4人以上那縣市議員的公費助理從2到4人調整為2人以上可使議員的用人更有彈性那麼第二個在現行規定當中公費助理補助費用總額"},{"start":5366.981,"end":5395.223,"text":"本席這邊是主張上調50%最主要是因為從民國95年修正通過之後已經有超過18年沒有調整那當時的基本工資只有14880那麼現在已經到27470漲幅有超將近85%但是公費助理的費用顯然其實都沒有真的調漲不符所需所以希望說能夠調漲那並希望能夠額外編列加班費勞工保險費全民健保"},{"start":5396.483,"end":5421.634,"text":"提供財務費及僱主負擔提供而勞工退休金那麼第三個部分就是實務上有許多志工助理都用部分工時的方式來協助議員在參與各項的活動那現行規定當中並沒有開放這類部分工時的助理所以大部分都是用義工的方式或者是議員自行補貼所以本期這邊參照勞動部僱用部分工作勞工應注意事項有關部分工時的那個定義希望能夠開放議員"},{"start":5423.635,"end":5424.836,"text":"提出的版本的時候如果說對於"},{"start":5449.369,"end":5476.608,"text":"主理補助費用總額更高的部分那並規定能夠配合公務人員加薪的調整部分那本席也表示支持但是希望政院版他只有取消助理人數上限沒有開放部分公司和兼職助理的部分但本席希望這個部分能夠採用本席的版本那麼讓行政院能加幅度來修正通過以上感謝謝謝好謝謝我們張正前委員的提案聲明"},{"start":5480.765,"end":5481.606,"text":"主席"},{"start":5499.264,"end":5517.394,"text":"各位委員、女士先生、各位刑警首先對於各位委員就內政業務的推動還有關注指導表達有重感謝之意那今天各位委員會審查楊瓊英委員等人、黃婕委員等人吳佩儀委員等人、鄭天才委員等人、羅志強委員等人"},{"start":5518.291,"end":5543.75,"text":"羅敏玲委員等人李玉玲委員等人吳思耀委員等人陳超明委員等人李博毅委員等人黃建豪委員等人徐巧欣委員等人莊瑞雄委員等人高金樹梅委員等人林思銘委員等人王美惠委員等人盧憲英委員等人蔡毅委員等人范雲委員等人徐珍委員等人"},{"start":5544.391,"end":5550.423,"text":"黃秀芳委員等人、鍾嘉斌委員等人、陳穎委員等人、武力華委員等人"},{"start":5551.821,"end":5575.963,"text":"陳素岳委員等人、徐欣寅委員等人、洪森翰委員等人、李燕秀委員等人、吳清明委員等人、黃建斌委員等人、劉建國委員等人、鄭正琴委員等人、陳培宇委員等人、王育敏委員等人所提地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例部分條文修正草案"},{"start":5576.985,"end":5589.018,"text":"總計有37案．本部應邀列席報告及備詢。在這邊請就相關的一個內容進行口頭的一個報告由於行政院府於113年5月2日將本條例修法草案"},{"start":5592.442,"end":5614.289,"text":"含重大院審議,雖未及由貴人會排入本次會議審查,不過考量本次修法審查是攸關民意代表及村里長支給相關費用的政策方向。研究各委員所提的提案,還有行政院的提案綜合說明如下,敬請各位委員參考指教。"},{"start":5615.885,"end":5634.276,"text":"第一是有關於修正本條例第6條有關議員聘用助理制度的部分有關調高議員助理補助費總額之上限考量本條例從民國89年公布實施至今基本工資還有民生物價均有一定的一個調整跟漲幅經審酌地方政府議會"},{"start":5638.118,"end":5651.766,"text":"的修法建議還有地方財政負擔能力之後,行政院版的草案修正直下市議員助力補助費總額的上限每人每月至24萬元調至30萬元而縣市議員部分則從8萬元調至14萬元並增訂該總額隨全國公務人員各種家計年度通案調整的機制"},{"start":5663.308,"end":5692.928,"text":"那多數委員的提案修正方向與行政院版是一致的,僅在調整金額部分有所不同,所以建議委員能夠支持行政院版的方案。第二,為立議員吸納人才,部分委員版建議刪除直轄市議員助理每人每月支給支領金額8萬元以上之規定。行政院版的修正方向也相同,有關於此點本部競表同意,競表支持。"},{"start":5694.248,"end":5719.48,"text":"第3又為增加議員用能彈性﹐部分委員板及行政院板均刪除議員聘用助理人數之上限規定﹐並維持定有聘用助理最低人數﹐又配合助理補助費總而調高﹐行政院板著真直轄市議員聘用助理人數下限為7人﹐縣市議員聘用人數下限為3人﹐以兼顧議員問證品質與服務的需要"},{"start":5723.442,"end":5747.508,"text":"第4,各委員提案版本也關心增訂補助議員之應助理加班費、支檢費等費用,這一部分也跟行政院版的方向一致,競表贊同。行政院版已經參考立法院現行補助方式,修正改以助理補助費總額外加20%為上限,並擴大之應範圍至助理加班費。"},{"start":5748.408,"end":5776.995,"text":"支遣費等依法令應由雇主負擔的費用．以強化保障助理勞動權益第5行政院板及部分委員板均徵定議會應就各議員支領助理補助費總額及分配情形助理聘用關係及補助支應助理加班費等情形建立內部控制制度以利從制度面減少議員詐領相關費用的可能"},{"start":5779.019,"end":5781.07,"text":"修正本條例第5條的部分"},{"start":5782.133,"end":5808.422,"text":"副表有關條高地方民意代表為民服務費部分那鑒於地方民意代表為民服務費支應的範圍包括服務處的租金、有料費、水電費、文具費、紅白鐵、吉難、慰問金等等不過這個條例從民國89年實施至今民生物價已經有相當的一個漲幅並考量不同層級地方民意代表為民服務之實務及兼顧地方財政的負擔"},{"start":5809.883,"end":5818.974,"text":"行政院版修正直轄市議員為民服務費每人每月至2萬元提高為4萬元縣市議員至9千元調至2萬元鄉鎮市民代表從3千元調至5千元"},{"start":5826.903,"end":5839.571,"text":"部分委員提案條高地方民意代表為民服務費修正的方向與行政院版一致第三修正第7條有關發給村里長春節慰勞金部分"},{"start":5840.802,"end":5865.86,"text":"由於村里長全年在第一線執行各級政府交辦的任務以及為民服務的辛勞相較於政府各類人員有發給年終獎金或者是春節慰勞金各行業亦多有發給年終獎金之力僅村里長沒有相關的給予所以行政院版徵定發給村里長春節慰勞金進而以5萬元乘以1.5個月來計算"},{"start":5867.941,"end":5883.44,"text":"各委員的提案修正方向同於行政院版競表之詞不過僅在金額部分有不同的計算基準建請審慎衡量考量原住民議員及原住民族地區村里長服務轄區範圍較大"},{"start":5885.342,"end":5897.443,"text":"同時交通不便還有所服務的原住民的民眾散居等問題行政院本提案修正原住民議員為民服務費每月再加10%"},{"start":5900.585,"end":5919.103,"text":"並原住民族地區之村里長事務補助費每月再加10%,以兼顧原住民地區區域的特殊性。部分委員也提案考量原住民議員原住民族地區村里長服務特性之需要,方向與行政頁板一致。"},{"start":5920.546,"end":5943.621,"text":"最後本次審查提案的一個版本部分委員版本與行政院版本方向一致僅具體方式不同本部已在書面報告中彙整說明敬請委員指教並可以支持行政院版的提案並考量本條例規定之地方民意代表及村里長支給相關費用屬於補助性質"},{"start":5944.602,"end":5965.332,"text":"部分委員有提案針對議員助理地方民意代表及村里長新增各項支給項目建請橫著各項目的合理性及必要性並考量地方政府財政負擔能力本部也已經依各提案要旨在書面報告中提出參考意見供與委員參酌以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝"},{"start":5967.213,"end":5976.543,"text":"好謝謝林佑昌部長的報告現在我們其他單位的報告請我們委員叫自省參議員並刊登公報"},{"start":5979.411,"end":6005.913,"text":"現在我們進行審打委員執行前原內做以下極點宣告本會委員發言時間4分鐘必要延長2分鐘非本會委員發言4分鐘上午10點30分鐘截止發言登記因為今天法案處理本會會議就不處理臨時提案請問各位委員有沒有意見"},{"start":6007.393,"end":6014.196,"text":"沒意見,那我們現在就進行審打登記第一位蘇巧慧委員"},{"start":6024.517,"end":6051.609,"text":"好 謝謝主席在我開始質詢之前我覺得還是不吐不快啦那主席我其實非常的感謝今天主席排了這個全國都關注的議題因為不管是地方民意代表或者是村里長大家都紛紛的表示時至今日這個村里長的費用然後這個事務補助費以及我們地方民代的助理費用都應該要被討論了"},{"start":6053.51,"end":6059.713,"text":"那今天呢也是破紀錄啦我從來進到立法院從來沒有看過齁光是提案說明已經提案說明了一個小時有這麼多個版本不分草野大家都提案結果呢上個禮拜五發生什麼事明明吳祁鳴召委就已經把案子都已經排好了表示這個禮拜今天要審了但上個禮拜五"},{"start":6077.081,"end":6096.716,"text":"國民黨的副坤祺召委跟民眾黨黃國昌召委卻特別把幾案抽出來說他們禁負惡毒 戳破民進黨的假面具我覺得很奇怪請問是要戳破什麼假面具啊那今天這麼多的國民黨委員甚至民眾黨的委員也在這裡提出自己的版本所以"},{"start":6097.056,"end":6105.822,"text":"他們的版本是比較寫得不夠好不夠清楚嗎?所以沒有被傅坤祺總召黃國昌選中嗎?阿不然的話為什麼只有那幾個版本去?阿那我又看啦所以難道是國民黨選進去進覆二讀的版本代表著國民黨全體的意見嗎?民眾黨選進去的代表民眾黨的意見嗎?好那如果是的話那"},{"start":6122.172,"end":6143.355,"text":"顯然民眾黨不支持村里長事務費調高喔因為民眾黨的版本沒有寫到村里長喔那所以國民黨不支持原住民地區的村里長事務費可以加給喔他不支持像高金委員這樣的提案說這個原住民地區事務繁忙可以加給喔因為國民黨的金富奧德的版本沒有原住民喔"},{"start":6145.361,"end":6160.452,"text":"齁,所以呢,那我們今天討論完的版本,如果我們今天因為草野有高度的共識希望今天要能夠審理,如果我們今天能夠出去的版本,那這個版本共識版出去以後,那上一次他們在禮拜五禁覆二讀的版本算不算數?這整個都亂得透了嘛!"},{"start":6163.334,"end":6175.106,"text":"所以這根本才是真正的齊心可異在民進黨的召委已經排好法案要審查的時候特別抽出幾個版本說所謂的進夫惡毒既不尊重立法院的委員會中心主義而且也把自己同黨委員的提案棄如必喜我覺得這真的是需要被譴責啦不然以後立法院不用討論了嘛"},{"start":6186.457,"end":6212.673,"text":"大家所有的事情都進入二讀就好了啊那委員會開什麼開所以今天在這裡我說不吐不快就是這樣這段談話我希望要能夠列入會議記錄啊好那講到這裡齁我們還是要請林侯昌部長我還是有幾個問題喔雖然等一下我們會有條文審查主條可以討論但今天我還是請一下部長謝謝那我們巧慧委員要求列入會議記錄齁那官報記錄"},{"start":6215.494,"end":6232.701,"text":"稍後一定會阻止啦,譴責啦好,謝謝部長,部長您也是擔任過地方首長這個非常多的公職相信您非常理解我們的村里長其實是在協助這個市政的相關議題上面非常重要的幫手對吧對"},{"start":6233.881,"end":6259.356,"text":"所以部長您也非常努力的沒有懈怠的提出了院板但是很可惜因為吳啟明教委太努力了這麼提早排所以院板也好還有我自己的版本也好今天都還沒有辦法到院會不過部長您剛剛報告的院板院板應該就是行政院的態度而且已經送出來了對嗎是沒有錯在上個禮拜行政院會已經通過並且已經送過來立法院"},{"start":6259.956,"end":6275.581,"text":"所以我想我們今天還是可以把院板的這個意見即便他沒有辦法進到委員會來一起拼案但我們還是可以按照院板的基礎也一起來討論那這個里長的部分說起來我這幾年真的是很替他們辛苦"},{"start":6276.681,"end":6277.622,"text":"所以部長你覺得我們今天的事務費5萬元這個基礎是足夠了嗎?"},{"start":6303.661,"end":6318.821,"text":"為什麼我們這個沒有動但是我們加了春節慰問金不然可以再說明清楚一點院方的想法嗎是我們在這一次的這個支給條例的一個修正我跟大家報告其實這個不是現在才開始討論"},{"start":6319.882,"end":6344.332,"text":"其實行政院在109年的時候曾經5月27日曾經也抱怨討論過這個事情不過因為還有相關的這些議題需要進一步凝聚共識所以那個時候並沒有正式提出來那我上任之後其實在112年的3月份的時候我們其實在內政部內部就已經啟動相關的一個法案的原議"},{"start":6345.272,"end":6359.951,"text":"最重要的就是剛剛委員特別提到的我們這一次在處理一些薪資那個事務補助費的部分它是屬於工作事務費的一個性質平常是沒有薪水的對 它是沒有薪水的"},{"start":6360.111,"end":6379.543,"text":"但是反過來里長也可以去外面兼職 是的 對不對 這就是他跟其他的公務員員根本上的差別 對不對我覺得這點性質大家一定要理清楚後面到底里長應該要哪一些慰問補助等等我們一定要搞清楚里長工作的性質後面才有辦法討論 是的"},{"start":6381.584,"end":6405.94,"text":"其實部長你這樣的態度其實也很清楚就是我們應該要給他更多的協助資源的協助讓他把事情做好那這個部分我也贊同不過我也另外贊成因為我偏差所有的狀況不管是公教人員也好其他的也好其實確實大部分的公立人員等等公教人員他的這個薪資也好或其他費用也好是確實會隨著物價來做波動"},{"start":6408.482,"end":6437.015,"text":"所以我其實也是支持如果是村里長的事務補助費可以隨著物價調升我認為這是可以支持的部分那我們等一下在逐條的時候是不是就這部分可以請院內政部這邊再提出多一點您的看法各位報告我想這部分是可以來討論不過你也了解其實在地方村里的問題在這樣他村里有大有小是啦所以這個五萬塊說實在是對的大的理真的是不夠用"},{"start":6437.455,"end":6461.34,"text":"所以這部分的確是值得來進一步討論所以我等一下我是希望能夠有閒熟地方事務的內政部的長官們等一下真的是我們就實際的狀況更多討論好那因為今天大家很多委員要問我不再用時間但我表示一件事情本席也是非常支持地方民代的助理費地方民代的助理費要有所調整"},{"start":6462.02,"end":6462.14,"text":"是 贊成好 謝謝"},{"start":6490.943,"end":6491.704,"text":"主席,有請內政部長"},{"start":6514.834,"end":6543.914,"text":"部長好,想要請教一下近期警政署有報出我們第一線的警察級兄弟使用防彈衣抗奧吐版存在有查資對於第一線執行人員人身安全造成很嚴重的威脅目前警政署是說一切合法想要請教一下部長在驗收新防彈衣的過程中內政部具體是如何進行的"},{"start":6545.455,"end":6568.353,"text":"為何這樣的二值的防彈衣可以驗收通過還有請教部長對於此事的防彈衣的查詢有進行全面調查還有調查的結果是什麼好謝謝委員的詢問不過這個驗收的部分這次警政署在驗收我是不是請警政署來做說明好謝謝"},{"start":6572.903,"end":6595.617,"text":"委員好 召委好 部長好那針對委員剛剛的提問那我們這一今年那個112年度的備薪式防災那是在公開招標還有最低標的方式辦那當時有兩家廠商投標那分別是公園公司還有萬寶城公司來投標"},{"start":6597.038,"end":6613.399,"text":"在當時審標的時候他資格都是符合的我們當時照標規定是要兩家廠商投標的時候要請廠商提供量益那都經過我們一個送交要到國內外檢測機構"},{"start":6615.301,"end":6618.684,"text":"我現在問的是說我們是不是說招標的問題現在就是說我們的驗收如何驗收有這個傻吃的這個我們防彈衣如何調查的結果是什麼"},{"start":6631.232,"end":6633.774,"text":"如果你說那個招標的廠商的話所以請問一下現在你們的進度或者是說我們要怎麼樣去去抽換啊什麼時候還成還有你說廠商都是合法的但是照你們的報告回應裡面是這個廠商他是列入黑名單"},{"start":6651.73,"end":6655.554,"text":"已經禁止三年招標了但是呢現在你還是一樣讓這個廠商就是通過招標才又沒有要去改進還有那個制度是如何這樣子的話就是這幾年你們這其他的廠商都不合法"},{"start":6670.991,"end":6676.215,"text":"這個是禁止三年的他再回來招標你們又給他去標這樣子的話你覺得我們第一線的警察這樣的安全如何把關這個才是我們關心的"},{"start":6687.17,"end":6687.39,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":6703.208,"end":6722.782,"text":"的產品我們進行國內外的檢測那國內市檢測所以那麼那麼那麼的這個防單一不是每件每件去抽查是就是樣本來抽查這樣子的話是先變成我們警察穿到就是如果是被被有案件的話這個警察就是自認倒楣了"},{"start":6723.923,"end":6745.956,"text":"所以不是這樣子的驗收吧我們驗收這個是安全的話我們希望就是要怎麼樣去驗收是說全部驗收不是只有樣本驗收這樣子的話太離譜了一般我們要去驗收的話連一支筆都要馬上就算足每一支筆我們就去標案是這樣但是你們驗收就是說樣本驗收這樣子太離譜了"},{"start":6748.866,"end":6765.482,"text":"報告委員,我們驗收是先點數量。我們確定數量全部都到齊之後,我們才會按照我們契約去抽取我們要檢測的數量。那因為6000多件全部要檢測,其實那個簽証到的成本有後續的驗收的成本。"},{"start":6766.683,"end":6778.59,"text":"我覺得我就沒辦法如果是身為一個警察這樣子的驗收的話我覺得沒辦法所以你們我問的就是說你們的驗收但是你回答是這樣子你的調查的結果還有抽抽查現在我們是有這樣子的雜誌品你們要怎麼樣去做調查怎麼樣去後面要來去抽換的"},{"start":6789.876,"end":6802.515,"text":"委員跟你報告因為依據相關的公共採購的一個程序他驗收有一定的一個程序他也一定驗收的這個內容也一定就是照契約這是第一點第二個是這個"},{"start":6804.858,"end":6804.878,"text":"議員．審查"},{"start":6827.99,"end":6853.71,"text":"但他有瑕疵品的話我們就依契約來要求更換現在大家就是發現有這樣子的問題如果是真正我們的警察穿出來就背這個重槍的話這樣是誰負責這個是人命是當然所以我們發現瑕疵品的話一定依契約要求他立即把它做更換對還有說這個廠商已經是禁止"},{"start":6854.471,"end":6854.671,"text":"委員會議事日程"},{"start":6884.432,"end":6884.497,"text":"議事日程。"},{"start":6885.245,"end":6900.155,"text":"小的評述就是依據我們第40條第二項的規定前項就是說居住水準但是中央每4年都要修正但我們現在看到的就從101年到現在成為修正還有在107年的時候也曾經就是修訂原收權但是其中就是從12年內政部都沒有修正這個基本"},{"start":6914.545,"end":6921.547,"text":"基本的居住水準我想這一部分內政部其實都在滾 國土署其實都在滾動的一個檢討我上禮之後其實也請國土署針對這一部分做相關的一個研議那你剛剛提到的"},{"start":6944.173,"end":6965.207,"text":"這個基本的居住水準其實它是要依整個國家跟社會發展的一個狀態來做一些調整沒錯,但是就是發展到現在我們都沒有去修正國家的發展就是部長說的國家的發展還有居住的空間要去改變但是12年了沒有去改變所以變成說這樣子的居住水準"},{"start":6966.089,"end":6969.912,"text":"每次問都是研議再準備再檢討這樣子的話效果是什麼因為這個就必須要慎重慎重12年都沒有去改變"},{"start":6982.783,"end":7012.243,"text":"所以慎重到什麼時候?這個至少我上任之後我已經交代他們要做相關的一個修正所以現在已經快要卸任了所以到現在上任的時候交到是現在快要卸任不過委員我跟你報告這個東西你要調不是那麼簡單因為他簽一法動權生而且這個會影響到很多民眾的權益那另外在做相關的一個都市計畫的一個規劃跟設計的時候也都一定會受到影響所以這一部分為什麼他們要特別慎重的原因在這邊"},{"start":7012.563,"end":7041.361,"text":"是,但是慎重也要去調整啦希望真正的是照顧到我們的居民不是說以前的標準跟水準這樣就可以了這樣的話我們真的是部長剛才也有講嘛是不是我們要那麼多年了已經要改變但是到現在還沒有改變所以希望這個部分要你卸任之前是不是說可以再去改變真正的去照顧到我們的居民"},{"start":7041.781,"end":7067.257,"text":"不用用我要卸任的這來畫一條線這個是國土署他們本來都在做相關的研議那這會一定也要進步我想這部分大家都有共識沒錯 但是12年了不是說只要說你上任還是卸任但是你說你在上任的時候就要求但是現在你沒有追蹤也沒有結果我們是有追蹤也有進度好 這樣進度結果在哪裡可以"},{"start":7067.977,"end":7094.748,"text":"沒有問題,我要請國土署再給委員說明因為很多縣市裡面有很多都沒有去做這個就是那個家屋的改善如果是有這樣子的標準認定的話是否就是我們我們下一頁再看一下這個你看很多縣市都沒有去做這樣子的所以希望就是要給我一個報告可以嗎"},{"start":7096.412,"end":7098.474,"text":"好謝謝我們麥政委員好謝謝麥政委員的執行謝謝下一位張宏立委員張宏立委員執行完我們就休息5分鐘"},{"start":7132.998,"end":7133.659,"text":"不好意思請部長請部長好謝謝"},{"start":7141.008,"end":7162.3,"text":"來部長其實我們今天討論的就是議員跟村里長的這個啦齁那其實上個禮拜國民黨在院會裡面啦把他抽出了幾案出來啦齁可是我仔細看了一下我不知道部長你有沒有注意到他抽出了幾案裡面其實並沒有很全盤的去處理這個問題欸是這樣如果照這樣子處理的話"},{"start":7167.142,"end":7192.189,"text":"到時候施行你們會不會有問題?跟委員報告我們在討論思考這件事情的時候我們是把整個的一個支給的制度全部做了一個完整的一個討論跟研究所以在新任版的部分大家可以看到就是有包括這個助理的補助費那另外還有他的一個加班費還有他的資遣費"},{"start":7193.189,"end":7219.822,"text":"甚至包括為民服務費還有村里長的年終慰勞金甚至也包括原住民的部分也考慮了進來所以行政院版是一個比較完整全面的一個方案甚至剛剛有幾位委員臨時有提到包括地方的這個鄉鎮市代表的部分我們也一定做了修正所以行政院版是一個比較完整配套的一個方案"},{"start":7221.076,"end":7243.138,"text":"對啦,行政院版是面面俱到啦但我看他們抽出來版本裡面有好幾個項目都沒有處理到是這樣子可能會掛一漏萬對,已經掛一漏萬了我們看到抽出來版本就已經掛一漏萬了所以部長你這樣講就很明確啦但很多人啦,其實這個村里長跟議員的這個"},{"start":7245.48,"end":7267.99,"text":"已經討論許久了當外界有的人會覺得說這好像是加薪好像是什麼那其實我們檢視裡面現市議員我說的不是直轄市議員現市議員其實你看這個金額如果說以現在的物價水準來講確實是有所不足這我們真的也是必須要檢討的"},{"start":7269.951,"end":7290,"text":"所以部長你也認為就是說行政院版跟還有30幾個我覺得不只30幾個還有很多的委員的版本其實都在陸續提出來中所以今天如果大家好好的討論討論出一個完整的版本好的版本"},{"start":7290.62,"end":7293.961,"text":"部長支持還是不支持?我必須要在這邊就是說部長我們如果解決了這一個問題之後"},{"start":7307.881,"end":7321.086,"text":"解決了這個問題之後那部長我一直其實也在這邊跟大家討論過很久了這一個行政區劃法是不是未來或什麼應該我們要去檢討了你覺得勒"},{"start":7325.579,"end":7344.611,"text":"當然行政區的話也討論已久他有好多的層次當然是在這個縣市的層次那另外委員如果提到在村里的行政區也的確有這個狀況不過這一部分都是地方政府他去考量那目前的狀況的確有的理很大"},{"start":7345.351,"end":7361.902,"text":"李可能到一兩萬人兩萬人都有那有的李很小可能都一千人以下所以大小其實差異蠻大的這一部分的確是地方政府應該來做一些行政區村里行政區上面的一個劃分的一個調整讓他更為合理"},{"start":7362.642,"end":7389.732,"text":"就舉我的選區來好了啦板橋啦最大的里阿跟最小的里阿人數差了12倍是戶數差了17倍是阿其實這個很難齁那里長的事務費還是一樣是一樣阿對不對所以其實我說的這個行政區的話我覺得村里長也要檢討但這是地方政府的權責但我一直覺得說我們配合"},{"start":7391.112,"end":7414.44,"text":"國土區劃法還有這個很多的生活圈也已經都改變了我覺得其實是要到一個檢討的程度了我不知道部長你的看法如何我想這個委員剛剛提的這個方向是很正確的方向正確的但我也知道這不可能今天說明天就馬上做這個牽扯太廣這個行政院也在做相關的一個討論"},{"start":7415.502,"end":7426.873,"text":"對 我也知道 所以我就覺得說 既然這個解決問題應該整個配套 這樣整個臺灣未來的發展才會比較好啦 對不對部長 你認為贊成 委員剛剛講的是正確的好 那我們就"},{"start":7431.998,"end":7444.303,"text":"該努力的就努力啦就不要讓他中斷就繼續做啦好不好另外委員這個也跟你補充一下因為剛剛之前也有幾位委員可能有提到在關心這個經費的一個問題我在這邊也稍微這個補充報告一下"},{"start":7448.765,"end":7466.778,"text":"實際上我們109年到113年我們中央對於直轄市跟縣市政府的一般性的補助款還有中央的統籌分配稅款其實增加很多在109年度的時候全國各縣市中央補助的一般性的補助款是1762億"},{"start":7469.5,"end":7496.197,"text":"那到了113年的時候已經來到了2303億那如果再加計中央的統籌分配稅款的話在109年是4709億到了113年是6346億所以簡單來講中央對地方政府的補助在這幾年其實增加的幅度很高那以委員的這個新北市為例的話"},{"start":7499.159,"end":7522.307,"text":"這個109年中央跟一般的補助款呢在新北市是補了404億那其中一般性的補助款是67億那到了113年的時候合計是到了570億那一般性的補助款也有102億所以他簡單來講就是說這個增加的一個幅度很高那這一次"},{"start":7523.087,"end":7546.888,"text":"我們進行相關的一個修法那所增加的經費其實地方政府基本上都有能力可以來因應那至於有極少部分的縣市他可能需要中央來補助那這部分會由院裡面然後還有包括我們的族種還有人種等等來進行相關的一個後續的一個研議來處理"},{"start":7548.448,"end":7573.816,"text":"部長你說的沒有錯,但還有一個,這幾年前瞻計畫補助地方,地方基礎建設他也省了很多錢,這個也要算下去了,這個光新北我也要算千億了,對不對?這是一個,另外,房地合一稅未來要處理,這些都是地方稅,所以地方的財源其實也會增加很多啊。是,這幾年是增加的。"},{"start":7574.296,"end":7584.526,"text":"對阿一定是增加的啦所以我覺得這個經費的問題我覺得還是要照規定來處理啦對不對是好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝張皇祿委員的發言謝謝好部長好先來休息5分鐘"},{"start":8078.049,"end":8084.575,"text":"好我們現在繼續開會先來我們請完美會委員好主席好謝謝主席你好請我們正次好謝謝委員好老闆正次今天我們就是要討論"},{"start":8104.281,"end":8106.222,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會議第11屆第1會期內政委員會議第1會期內政委員會議"},{"start":8130.615,"end":8139.963,"text":"我們要修法和責全．所以要大家帶一棟都可以在我們內政委員會來討論．不用在上禮拜五來抽出來立託．"},{"start":8148.85,"end":8155.174,"text":"我相信他們自己的委員也有很多意見所以今天我們也感謝我們的教委可以來拜日這個議程裡面所以剛才我說的就是說"},{"start":8167.824,"end":8174.31,"text":"在這規定當中,我們常常都說李聰因為他又沒辦法變,他是變事務費：所以那時候,我也感謝蘇貞昌院長"},{"start":8190.146,"end":8195.909,"text":"本議席都要聽大家所討論的這個事務費．第181年來討論以後．第182年有4萬5提高及5萬．在這個過程當中本縣也有說到說．我們是不是要以春節過年的獎金來看風．"},{"start":8217.259,"end":8223.564,"text":"但在這個過程當中,因為我們沒有得到共識：所以在這會期,這屆好家寨本市又繼續發表有條,所以可以來參與這個問題。在這個過程當中,市長,本市要來問你,你當中有什麼困難,還是可以如何處理的,麻煩你再說明一下。"},{"start":8248.587,"end":8268.107,"text":"報告委員我想委員關心我們地方民意代表跟村里長的相關的這個補助我想這個特別感謝那這個議題啊這個補助條例的修法我想草委都有共識了那其實這個議題早在很早就已經談了也不是說今天才在談"},{"start":8269.457,"end":8274.818,"text":"那據我所瞭解在108年開始在討論的時候那109 111到113再加上我來內政部以後那我參加過兩次的這個這個議長副議長的聯議會那幾乎所有案都有提出來在討論這個議題那這一次我們"},{"start":8289.172,"end":8289.612,"text":"委員的意見那針對這一個村里長的"},{"start":8304.608,"end":8330.025,"text":"這一個事務補助費的部分那我們這一次也考量到這個村里長也很辛苦那再加上說現在各行各業其實也都有所謂的年終獎金或者是慰問金這一個這個發給了那只有我們村里長沒有那這一次我們就把它放進去就用事務補助費的五萬塊做基準那把它調也跟一般一樣加發這個1.5個月的村賊慰問金"},{"start":8332.947,"end":8344.531,"text":"好 謝謝感謝我們政治的說明在這本席還要跟你談到的就是說我們本身做議員做立委怎麼辛苦都沒關係因為覺得我們這是發起做立委思維但畢竟我們議員的助理我們說實在的也不能讓他們超時也不能讓他們覺得說做到沒命沒力"},{"start":8361.32,"end":8371.145,"text":"所以這種的都違法的,所以是如何提高他們的助理的費用及人數,因為這裏面,因為有很多我們的助理,都是長久以來"},{"start":8379.028,"end":8381.749,"text":"都要服務也好,要做什麼也好,有時候就要輪,啊你會不會來,你會補過來,會補你可以上班學完,所以我們也怕他說做了超時不應該,所以在這個規定當中,這個座禮會會提供像第一我的第2期,"},{"start":8403.564,"end":8410.007,"text":"本來是8萬塊,提高到14萬,我們的合同24萬,提高到30萬,我們的事務費,我們的合同是有4萬提高到6萬,2萬提高到4萬,"},{"start":8423.171,"end":8425.974,"text":"像我自己是九千拿到兩萬塊在這個過程當中我覺得是不足的你認為這個事務費要如何調整可以符合現在的時機及環境及物價的契機來"},{"start":8446.886,"end":8453.64,"text":"委員這我跟您報告這一次當然修法主要也是考量到這個要建前議員的助理的聘用制度"},{"start":8454.782,"end":8477.101,"text":"當然助理都很辛苦那跟這個我們村里長也都是一樣的所以我們這一次才會做這樣的一個修法那另外一個就是我們要保障助理的這個勞動權益那所以我們做了一些剛剛委員特別提到了這個提高這些加班費或者是他的這個助理費"},{"start":8478.018,"end":8486.012,"text":"那我們提的驗版這個額度大概我們都有參酌一些因素一些面向來做調整那當然委員所提的說"},{"start":8486.772,"end":8496.835,"text":"我們院板的這個調整的幅度到底是不是這個最恰當的當然這個大家可以來討論這樣就是重點就是說我們今天派這個委員會來討論議員的助理費及里長的薪金的費用是非常重要所以大家都是坐下來談以現在的環境累積多少"},{"start":8517.442,"end":8523.506,"text":"他釋合當然是有的是一定會做不夠,但又做不夠的當中,我們要怎麼調和現在的環境?因為本市就是覺得說,問題我相信今天所說的我們的董事、董事,都是來自"},{"start":8540.657,"end":8544.058,"text":"看見地方的狀況．臺灣才會去修這個案．因為我們知道每一次的法案的立法．若沒有過的選．我們就是還重新開始計劃．開始計劃的當中我們就是要如何來修好、修好多次．"},{"start":8565.544,"end":8567.908,"text":"在這裏面,我要請教的就是,你們回去研議一下,包括里長,現在有欠我的什麼,有需要什麼的補貼嗎?"},{"start":8580.25,"end":8588.231,"text":"因爲有人說看到沒意思沒數,看到沒錢沒錢,但這不是看心生的,這是要合情合理的,給人家的薪金一定要給人家,所以我直接跟政治說,該如何去補貼這些問題的時候,我們要研議一下,要做得好,不簡單,已經這麼多年了,現在拿出來,"},{"start":8608.655,"end":8617.349,"text":"好 這個我們會來處理好 謝謝好 謝謝王美惠委員老花言好 謝謝好 下一位我們習以琛委員"},{"start":8626.543,"end":8644.393,"text":"主席,請內政部吳政次跟複稅署王專門委員。好,委員好。好,政次好。我想請教一下,請問一下,到今天為止有幾個縣市有提交國土功能分區圖。"},{"start":8647.059,"end":8672.951,"text":"據我所瞭解先是三個縣市三個縣市嗎據我瞭解是這樣那請問國土計劃法是不是會延後上路因為這件事情全國大家都在關心不過我們原則上我們還是按照既定的這個期程可是現在只有三個縣市交歐那所以表示說這個部分可能是會有很多治安難行的地方我們到六月底之前我想陸陸續續應該其他縣市會陸陸續續會報上來"},{"start":8676.272,"end":8703.437,"text":"可能要了解一下這些縣市為什麼到現在沒有交的原因是什麼所以這個部分如果在這之前沒有辦法因為其實本席有提案覺得應該要慎重的來處理這樣的一個國土計劃法因為畢竟尤其對於一些農業縣對他們來說其實影響甚大所以這個部分的話我覺得要內政部這邊應該要審慎的來去了解各縣市的這個需求"},{"start":8703.977,"end":8728.673,"text":"然後提出來之後相關的這個不要就倉促的讓這個計劃法上路是謝謝委員指教這一部分我們會再跟縣市政府再去溝通OK好謝謝好然後另外次長我想我想在座的各位包括本席大家都很支持今天的修法但是有幾個問題要想要請教您就是我們的這個補助條例從民國89年制定到現在已經歷經24個函數"},{"start":8730.794,"end":8746.609,"text":"委員們都在幫村里長爭取條薪或加發年終獎金那直到去年有調高了5000元那蔡政府上任到現在都已經滿8年了為什麼會在交接前突然宣布要發給這個村里長的這個春節慰問金這項政策"},{"start":8749.967,"end":8763.225,"text":"我剛剛特別講這個議題已經很早就談談了好幾年在我所了解已經談過超過十幾年了那也不是因為到蔡總統要卸任才去談這個問題其實按照這個"},{"start":8764.406,"end":8771.29,"text":"在去年的時候在111年的時候我們市會是從4萬5千跳到5萬跳到5千因為時間的關係我想我只是提出來說過去這麼久了大家都在提出這個問題可是卻"},{"start":8782.956,"end":8801.133,"text":"其實過去有8年時間蔡政府是可以做這件事情可是卻在這個時候才提而且這件事情在行政院還沒有通過修法版本之前我們內政部長林佑昌就率先公佈那像這個部分的話為什麼一個上面有經過行政院通過的修正法案"},{"start":8802.094,"end":8827.332,"text":"內政部不像國土計劃法這麼謹慎小心一定要等到這個行政院協調通過之後才才能夠這個宣布那這次就這麼快在行政院都還沒有宣布之前就已經率先公佈了那個是這個村里長連會來這個有來找過部長那部長那一天也有過去那他們反映了部長這個先跟他做初步的這個回應那這個過程當中"},{"start":8829.628,"end":8857.141,"text":"立委剛剛特別提到這個過程當中會因為涉及到這個地方財政所以一直跟地方在做溝通那所以時間會比較這個剛剛你也提到地方財政的問題嗎其實地方財政相對的艱困所以這邊本席也要要求這個部分是不是應該要由中央來買單否則的話到時候地方財政根本沒辦法支付這樣子的就變成說是這個中央給這個通過這樣偵測的時候可是地方卻沒有辦法來處理"},{"start":8859.055,"end":8885.553,"text":"委員是這樣寫的按照地制法或者是財劃法規定這一個財源是必須要有地方來做嘛那我們也有一個機制是這個財政這個收支短差的部分也有一個補助的一個機制這個在財政部或者組總那邊都會有這個機制那我們認為說這個制度歸制度那不能因為說這個特別這個案子因為這個是草委的共識"},{"start":8886.567,"end":8911.839,"text":"那也沒有所謂說這一個這個說草委大家認為說這個應該你重要來復選因為如果是這樣子的話那帝制法跟才化法的規定就等於沒有用那等一下我想有一些委員會提案有這樣子的一個要求那本席也希望說能夠這個部分是由中央來買單以解決地方財政的困難因為畢竟現在才化法也還沒修正嘛然後另外就是這個春節慰問金要不要報稅啊"},{"start":8915.105,"end":8939.194,"text":"我們認為這個因為這個村里長這一部分這個都不是公務人員他是無極職的那這邊既然是無極職的他是事務補助費那就不是他的個人所得我們是認為說不應該去瞌睡但是這個要看看這個那請問一下複稅署這個針對村里長的這個春節温暖金是不是需要繳稅"},{"start":8942.093,"end":8958.244,"text":"委員,針對如果村里長他本身現行上的事務補助費的部分的話,那我們本身之前在75年的時候有發過相關解釋,就是說這些免納所得稅嘛,對不對?所以這個部分的話我覺得應該負稅署應該要根據這個發函給這個財政部啊,說明這個村里長應該是要比照這個"},{"start":8967.974,"end":8985.75,"text":"村里長處理村里事務跟推行政令只有免納所得稅如果說這個春節問津的部分的話那至於他的性質如何可能我們跟內政部再來討論一下那就麻煩這個內政部這邊然後另外還有一個問題要請教就是我們這幾年的CPI已經連續3年都增加"},{"start":8986.671,"end":9015.804,"text":"民眾已經苦藏了3年的高物價之苦基本工資一直調漲可是議員的公費助理補助費還有村里長的相關費用卻一直都沒有調整尤其是像這一次也是經過那麼多年了在這一次在蔡政府任期8年的時候做了一個這樣的調整未來是不是能夠把他們的事務費跟助理的薪資能不能隨著公務員的調薪一起來調"},{"start":9016.084,"end":9016.124,"text":"主席"},{"start":9032.52,"end":9033.961,"text":"現在村里長的事務補助費就已經涵蓋的為民服務的性質了"},{"start":9059.73,"end":9075.285,"text":"事務補助費一般我們大概講的就是一些啊比如說什麼那些什麼水電支出啊文具啦相關的應該跟衛民服務不一樣吧衛民服務也是一樣啊包括你平常的行政支出啦你知道有人拜託找小貓然後這個還拜託清水工這個都應該算是衛民服務吧"},{"start":9081.631,"end":9096.751,"text":"但是事務補助費跟業務補助費應該是不一樣啦﹖我覺得這個內政部可能要先研究一下他本來就是一個彈性的事務補助費對公共的支出或者是他的服務的支出不過我想這個部分我覺得對於不管是民代其實都有"},{"start":9097.191,"end":9097.711,"text":"李柏毅委員"},{"start":9127.577,"end":9127.838,"text":"首先感謝趙偉"},{"start":9138.338,"end":9159.929,"text":"其實我也有對這個地方民意代補助條例修正草案我在其實我們院版還沒有提出之前那我們就提出來那提出的方向其實是參酌其實這20幾年來都沒有調整助理都沒有調整薪資那我們講近8年好了"},{"start":9160.589,"end":9177.398,"text":"我自己遇到的例子近八年從2016一六年到二零二四年民進黨政府調整基本工資百分之三十七那一開始調的時候那時候我在高雄市議會我有議員同事就很好氣的跟助理說哇"},{"start":9178.444,"end":9203.582,"text":"我們這個地方制度法沒有修正以前我們的助理費上限24萬我沒有辦法調整但是我私人加給你3%第一次加3%加到後來加到37%的時候不知道怎麼跟助理說我要繼續幫你加了我幫你算一下也幫很多過去我的同事算一下如果從民進黨政府執政開始2016開始"},{"start":9205.407,"end":9215.283,"text":"的助理費的薪資上限24萬一共加了27%代表加到現在其實已經要上限已經要到32.88萬"},{"start":9218.136,"end":9246.618,"text":"應該是乘以1.37應該已經到這一個數字了那也就是說如果從頭到尾都跟著我們公務人員加薪的比例加給基本工資的比例加給他的助理或者是跟著公務人員加薪的比例加給助理的話其實每個月都已經多負擔大概八萬塊所以這個是今天我們在這裡討論這一個修大家所有三十幾個"},{"start":9247.738,"end":9274.057,"text":"立委提案討論這一個修法的原因也很高興今天的委員會可以這樣子我們跟國民黨委員民進黨委員我們一起來逐條的來討論因為如果沒有逐條討論跳過內政委員會直接進入二讀的話請問來次長到底要加多少這個在大會怎麼討論到底加班費要怎麼加"},{"start":9278.323,"end":9295.999,"text":"這個大會怎麼討論還有我們要不要納入部分工時這個大會怎麼討論還有我們的人數限制要不要放進來這個大會怎麼討論還有村里長在被抽出的版本沒有村里長的這個事務補助費的純潔慰問金這個大會怎麼討論還有"},{"start":9302.864,"end":9321.547,"text":"原民議員因為交通不便的這個事務補助費的加級這個大會怎麼討論所以也很感謝我們內政委員會今天可以等一下大家進入這個主條來主條的來審議我們的每一項的提案"},{"start":9324.399,"end":9348.888,"text":"市長你同意說20162016年到2024年基本薪資已經加到37%公務員的部分也已經增加17%這個助理費的調整內政部在我們委員提出來的版本之後才提出來的版本方向上有沒有一致還是"},{"start":9349.588,"end":9351.51,"text":"好 謝謝委員的指教也謝謝委員的關心我想這個案子就像我剛剛講的"},{"start":9376.072,"end":9399.564,"text":"大家都有一致的共識但對於這一個院版的條件當然等一下我們會去討論我剛講的齁到底這個金額從24萬上限到我們已經加了37%變成32.88萬那現在院版我們知道提出來的大概是在30萬但是我們希望是一定要加上就是說我們也不可能期待兩年後的委員會"},{"start":9401.361,"end":9424.643,"text":"因為這個公務人員基本性是增加的時候委員會就會自己提出來說那我們再幫這些助理來增加這些費用社會也不會接受那是不是一併的可以來放入這個條文裡面因為這個是我們希望能建立這個固定的這個機制不能因為說這個其他狀況比如說事務會在這一次我們並沒有把他納到這個公務人員條件"},{"start":9427.716,"end":9454.181,"text":"來調整那因為他比較特別是因為他在111年有調過一次對從4萬5調整到5萬那我們這一次增加的不是事務費這一次增加的是我講很多里長的心聲我故意在這個母親節活動的時候那有很多這些鄉親們我在鄉親們的面前關心里長說里長你有沒有年終獎金里長說沒有啊"},{"start":9455.236,"end":9455.356,"text":"最後"},{"start":9475.816,"end":9503.052,"text":"感謝我們內政委員會會持續的來做這個討論在司法委員會其實已經被提上會動議的情況下那我們內政委員會來持續每一條來討論到底村里長的這個春節慰問金還有我們直轄市議員及縣市議員的助理的這個費用的調整是不是應該要繼續逐條的來做一些理性的討論謝謝謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":9506.94,"end":9514.268,"text":"好謝謝我們李博義委員的執行謝謝下一個我們劉行平委員好謝謝好謝謝主席喔這個次長有請喔好請次長好謝謝"},{"start":9532.067,"end":9544.339,"text":"市長早安今天花一點點時間來討論民意代表的這個費用因為今天其實大家主張的東西很不一樣很多啦當然還有主條討論是沒有關係但本期的主張是這樣福利從優 審查從速既然要談"},{"start":9547.102,"end":9567.778,"text":"因為這個民意代表尤其是議員助理費的部分其實20幾年沒有動那中間其實公教人員都加薪加滿多的對不對所以說遲早要面對這樣的問題但我是認為啦面對這個問題要做就一步到位來顧好品質我們主張是這樣所以針對院版的部分我們來做一下討論我想先請教次長為什麼我們要有公費助理的機制"},{"start":9569.652,"end":9573.836,"text":"所以你認為不應該有公費助理的機制嗎?當初為什麼有公費助理?當初為什麼界定叫公費助理?為什麼?"},{"start":9592.024,"end":9593.225,"text":"為什麼政府要補助議員去請助理?為什麼?"},{"start":9607.182,"end":9625.916,"text":"你會瞭解這政策的核心目標跟概念是什麼就是協助這個助理可以協助議員來做問政那因為有編列預算所以當初用公費兩個為什麼要公費是因為公平公平性為什麼要公平性呢因為我們今天大家都是投票選出來的民意代表可是我們有人家底很雄厚有人家底很單薄"},{"start":9627.062,"end":9653.179,"text":"如果說把助理這件事情單純定義為這就是民意代表的私人的民事雇用關係那麼家底雄厚的民意代表哇我可以二三十個三四十個助理沒有問題因為他出得起可是相對來講素人出生的相對年輕的他可能沒有這麼多條件的時候我的助理就變少了形成不公平的競爭也形成服務品質的差別這就是問題所以國家當初設定公費助理的制度的初衷應該是這件事吧"},{"start":9654.948,"end":9678.11,"text":"我這樣講有問題嗎還是你們反對這樣的說法?初衷是讓助理來協助議員來做問證那可能有一些議員的這個部分需要做一些補助所以這個補助是一個所以你要有一個基本款是大家都公平的情況去確保基礎的問證品質對不對?如果議員有需要拼更多的助理需要更多的經費的話可能就需要議員"},{"start":9679.151,"end":9698.195,"text":"所以你今天把公費拿掉其實是很危險的事情這是我要跟你講的第一件事第二件事為什麼大家講要檢討然後大家去談說議員助理也要隨著時代的改變他的勞工的待遇也要與時俱進所以說不只是薪水的補助他也要有加班費有資遣費有職災補償以及等等相關的一些措施"},{"start":9698.715,"end":9719.694,"text":"那行政院當然現在也調以前大家從來不去談議員的助理能不能有加班費現在講說有加班費但是你知道我很好奇啦你們院板當初算出比如說我以直轄市議員為例啦30萬元的公費助理的費用對不對然後其中有百分之百分之多少百分之二十之內對不對是算作加班費跟各種補助喔你們當初是怎麼算這個標準的"},{"start":9723.122,"end":9735.11,"text":"其實目前各個議會都有編列預算給議員補助助理的勞退跟健保的費用目前就有一些基本的一個費用"},{"start":9740.854,"end":9762.104,"text":"那目前我們如果涉算之後大概直轄市跟縣市的部分都會增加2萬左右就是說直轄市的原來編列的經費是4萬提升到這個6萬那這個縣市的部分1.2萬提升到2.8萬大概我們都已經涉算過了涉算過你確定嗎"},{"start":9763.786,"end":9778.906,"text":"你覺得在院版假設院版為基礎通過的時候一個議員啊一個直轄市議員或者是縣市議員他一個月可以多編出多少的加班費給他滿編的助理直轄市的部分可以4萬提升到6萬"},{"start":9782.059,"end":9785.362,"text":"市長你都沒有研究這不是你的所備範圍還怎麼樣?報告委員我特別要跟委員報告"},{"start":9803.993,"end":9826.412,"text":"加班我們現在用助理會額度的百分之二來提累那以前是勞健保勞退現在我們增加了資遣會跟加班會好對所以我今天要跟你討論的事情來你看一下表格按照30萬的基準來算我們用簡單的算法就平均也就是說我請七個助理一個認真服務不管是跑紅白鐵然後到寫法案協助問證的一個助理我給他四萬兩千塊不為過吧"},{"start":9827.853,"end":9849.975,"text":"合理對不對?我如果7個你30萬額度我才會請7個人對不對?7個人裡面42000多塊勞保勞退加健保每一個助理就8400多塊7個助理加起來多少錢?59115啊你剛剛講按照你院版的版本這個實際上法定預算編列的20%以內也就你只有6萬塊的經費你光是付勞保勞退健保付完59100多塊不見了"},{"start":9852.097,"end":9875.707,"text":"那請問這哪門子有加班費啊?平均一個議員一個月只有885塊的加班費可以給自己的助理那有休跟沒休請問有什麼不一樣?我們原本跟委員報告原本的這個之下是大概4萬嘛就我補貼他勞健保現行的狀況24萬加4萬大概就是勞健保用完嘛你把它提升到30萬結果你這個只變6萬而且不是外加的方式到最後還是沒有加班費啊"},{"start":9876.427,"end":9893.783,"text":"那不是諾溫那不然秀外秀就是一樣嗎?可能還4萬現在外加2萬嘛對你外加2萬可是你的總額提升到了30萬嘛所以你按照這不管是用什麼樣的排列組合算你都不會有額外的加班費出現啊因為光是付勞保勞退加健保就已經把這一筆6萬塊錢全部用完了捏你們有沒有算到這件事?"},{"start":9894.758,"end":9922.78,"text":"我們現在還有一個東西就是這個可以跟助理的人數的下限這是有關係的當然嘛可是問題就是你即便改變算法我剛剛也試過啦比如說兩個主任加上一般的比較基層算起來還是不會有加班費嘛來再看縣市議員的部分也是一樣啦縣市議員按照院版變成14萬也許是三個人四個人或五個人不管你怎麼樣搞排列組合一樣你所謂的加班費的20%用在勞保勞退健保用完就沒有了嘛"},{"start":9923.723,"end":9947.142,"text":"剩下可以調度加班費的額度剩下幾百塊有跟沒有不一樣所以我講你今天要修我肯定你但是我講除了審查重塑之外我們也主張福利重優今天有這麼多條文要討論我們先講這一件事情如果我們的加班費按照你現行的法條等於是沒有不要朝三暮四大家都是搞政治的人助理是很辛苦的要做當然是要用外加的方式來處理"},{"start":9948.703,"end":9964.767,"text":"我希望內政部在做這個事 我們都肯定我覺得這件事情不要在那邊藍的講綠的綁裝 綠的講藍的綁裝 黑不藝術啦我們講的是提升基層的服務品質跟勞動待遇嘛 對不對但既然要做就把它做好來我希望待會的討論可以往這些方向來對焦福利從優 審查中枢"},{"start":9967.408,"end":9986.585,"text":"這個等一下在討論的時候也可以跟委員再報告對阿你這個考量在內到最後只有一兩一千塊不到的加班費編下去大家會覺得好像期待很高阿最後發現好像都不是這樣所以該條的額度要調整該修的法條要做修正我們要從優處理好不好好謝謝委員好謝謝辛苦了好謝謝我們牛新平委員的資訊謝謝好那現在為我們黃捷委員謝謝"},{"start":9998.615,"end":9998.796,"text":"主席"},{"start":10005.68,"end":10030.938,"text":"市長好首先我還是要講一下說因為其實今天送進來這些民代條例總共有37個版本可是在上禮拜五的時候有幾個版本是被禁負二讀的那這樣會造成什麼結果就是我認為上禮拜禁負二讀的包括富坤崎總召黃國昌總召的這些版本會略顯粗暴而且有缺漏因為他們並沒有送到我們委員會來仔細的討論"},{"start":10033.24,"end":10053.578,"text":"那剛剛其實很多委員都有提到一些我們每一個項目都應該非常詳細討論包括說這些為民服務費要調到多少然後助理總額要調多少那原住民族的這些民意代表是不是要有另外的調升的額度甚至是說這些加班費助理費然後資遣費怎麼算這個其實都應該要坐在這裡好好的討論可是卻有人"},{"start":10058.703,"end":10077.415,"text":"越過這個程序並沒有尊重我們委員會的中心主義我認為這是非常非常不妥當的也對於這37個送進來的版本非常不公平甚至送進來的版本也都是不分黨派甚至很多是國民黨委員的版本難道他們的版本就不被這樣子同樣的規格對待嗎"},{"start":10080.097,"end":10095.935,"text":"那當然次長我想要先請教一下因為現在既然你們院板其實已經有送出來了只是說還沒有送進來那我覺得最必須還是要講一下說那這一次你們調生的有哪些項目有包括助理的加班費資遣費嗎"},{"start":10098.747,"end":10118.764,"text":"跟委員報告這一次修好有包括幾項一個是助理費的補助這個額度有提高那比如這個直轄市的部分從24萬增加到30萬那縣市議員是從8萬調到14萬也就各加了6萬塊另外我們定額還補助了這個助理的加班費"},{"start":10119.625,"end":10141.885,"text":"那這個我們用注意總額的外加百分之二十來算那直下市大概會增加4萬從原來的4萬加2萬變6萬那現在是大概年中可不可以跟大家說明一下還有我們原住民議員的部分年中的部分我們現在村里長的部分事務補助費的部分我們也加一個"},{"start":10142.466,"end":10142.646,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":10161.471,"end":10172.742,"text":"是,這一次我們院版的版本算是非常的完整那這也是大家期待已久的所以我認為在這邊討論真的非常非常重要那我覺得還有一個很重要的是就是接下來我們的助理費的總額會隨著軍公教來調薪是"},{"start":10177.346,"end":10196.782,"text":"這個隨時的調整也非常重要而不是一直讓我們議員助理看著說其他公務員其他軍公教然後甚至立院的公費助理也都一直在調漲了但是卻讓議員的助理沒有辦法就是只能24年凍在這裡那再來我要花點時間跟次長請教一下這個雖然你們說接下來會有20%的這個加班費跟資遣費的編列"},{"start":10202.367,"end":10224.923,"text":"但是我認為這個算法還是有一點不夠精確的是因為現在的這個4萬塊是我們把助理的總額增加然後助理的人數的下限也提高了就是說至少7人但是呢現在我們加上去的這個加班費很可能讓實質讓助理領到的加班費還是偏少的那我們看一下我們的簡報"},{"start":10226.324,"end":10251.098,"text":"這是現在的這個狀況就是現在是24萬然後沒有加班費那如果之後變成是最低要7人然後是30萬的話每個人拿到的加班費只有885塊這個是我來算出來的並不是內政部說的2萬塊也就是說雖然到時候我們增加了但是真的拿到助理手上拿到的加班費還是蠻少的喔"},{"start":10253.799,"end":10275.315,"text":"這其實是我最擔心的問題因為我一直以來想幫助理的爭取就是比照牢記法該給的加班費該給的資遣費該隨軍公教調整的薪資都應該如實的送到助理手上這是他們應得的權益可是我們這一次調升的這個比例我認為到時候助理真的能夠拿到的加班費還是還是杯水車薪"},{"start":10278.457,"end":10300.769,"text":"所以我想問一下說次長現在這個版本你們有沒有發現這個問題剛其實有委員提到類似的問題我覺得這是我這一次其實覺得比較遺憾的地方其他我都認為來補助這個村里長的辛苦這個都很好一定要予以肯定但這一次的這個加班費的這個缺漏你怎麼看"},{"start":10302.635,"end":10316.412,"text":"謝謝委員我想當初在提這個修正版本的時候在設算上我們也有考慮但這就涉及到這個地方的這個財政的問題當然因為我也不能把它設算的很高我知道我是說當然"},{"start":10317.193,"end":10317.413,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10335.413,"end":10356.315,"text":"其實你繳完勞健保繳完勞退就差不多了因為你把它跟加班費全部放在一起都放在那個20%裡面了所以我想問一下說這個接下來有沒有比較好的再調整的方式或是接下來有沒有你們有機會再來做更好的調整因為這樣子對助理來說還是不夠公平"},{"start":10357.818,"end":10378.068,"text":"委員這樣子因為這一個可能要也要跟聘用助理的這一個上限或者我們現在要定下限把上限取消我們現在沒有上限了對我們把它取消掉這個有關係因為按照我們的統計大概目前為止這個直轄市來聘的助理大概平均是6.4人所以我們就把它"},{"start":10378.588,"end":10378.648,"text":"謝謝黃建斌委員質詢"},{"start":10414.764,"end":10441.965,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請鄭次來,我們請鄭次各位好鄭次好是今天大家很關心這個問題是其實來組基站的都知道這基站的情況在哪裡我們想要說村里長好了,土地公土地婆事情每一步不管是路燈沒有亮,水鍋沒有通誰家小狗跑去咬誰家的雞甚至是"},{"start":10442.705,"end":10463.183,"text":"夫妻吵架他都要24小時全年無休的待命我都很相信這個提案對地方這些基層來說是很大的鼓勵那是一個很大的認同也是體恤其實很真的不容易不過我們今天去講這麼多點我們還是要回歸現實的就是錢是誰要出"},{"start":10464.434,"end":10490.828,"text":"那這個剛才提到的就是有些財政比較不好的一些縣市可能對六都來講的財源情況是比較充裕的他在支付這些是沒有問題的可是財政比較弱勢的一個縣市像臺東縣就是其中之一我們臺東就是這樣的情形這樣會負擔到本縣、辦公室、省委我們這一年的村里長包括跟我們的民意代表加起來一年要四千四百多萬"},{"start":10491.869,"end":10513.896,"text":"四千四百多萬對台中縣政府來講是一個很大的負擔喔我們一個體育館啊我們一個國中的體育場啊到現在要蓋起來都還要四處籌錢七千萬的體育場都要四處籌錢那這邊就是我只要提名講幾句話而已啦真的是這是用意良善我覺得我們都支持今天提案不是舉雙手雙腳贊成"},{"start":10517.037,"end":10542.7,"text":"但是這個部分我們也要考慮到縣市的財源情形所以不需要比較喜歡強烈的建議就是這個部分中央要來協助政事院來看謝謝委員的關心那這一部分剛剛我們部長也特別有提到最近這幾年其實事實上不管統籌分配款或者一般性的補助款其實都有增加很多當然有一些縣市的確財政是比較困難的"},{"start":10543.722,"end":10559.355,"text":"這一部分再透過財化的收支的這些補助機制我想這個應該是可以去討論那這一部分在組總跟財政部這邊應該也都是有這個既定的機制在走"},{"start":10560.935,"end":10587.051,"text":"市長你剛才說到很多問題包括臺中縣更特別臺中縣它不是鄉縣它還有它是原住民縣16個鄉鎮只有綠島鄉它不是原住民鄉鎮像我們提到的要加15%再加15%上去變10%嘛本來就在耕耕你再加起來對他說這個我們會想到什麼就是小時候我們要去原住老師很開心說同學你們都很認真我們明年去原住但是費用你要租有些家庭他的情況就比較允許"},{"start":10587.751,"end":10590.412,"text":"臺東縣這部分可以協助嗎市長我想這個應該不只是臺東縣"},{"start":10616.001,"end":10619.426,"text":"我講台東管啦,當然還有很多管事的問題嘛因為不要說這個台東縣啦,你像我自己嘉義縣也算什麼一樣,一樣這財政也是很窮啦"},{"start":10628.69,"end":10651.766,"text":"所以這真的因為整個臺灣的財政心理有很多不同的區分那比較弱勢的縣市這樣的美意他們也想要來協助可是財源不是這麼充裕真的是需要中央那邊來體恤現在不然有人中央來趕 倒三天還沒拖啊不要說這樣 鬆一鬆就你中央 趕快就地方政府這個 我覺得這個會扭曲一開始的美意市長有認同這件事嗎"},{"start":10658.61,"end":10659.931,"text":"主席議會同仁而且我們內政部我們的次長"},{"start":10688.86,"end":10692.965,"text":"委員好 阿吳處長你好 阿吳處長你好 阿吳處長你好 阿吳處長你好 阿吳處長你好 阿吳處長你好"},{"start":10706.28,"end":10706.72,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10725.812,"end":10742.987,"text":"任務選國代代表、縣議員、市議員、到現在的立法委員。所以我們和基層密度都是相關。我們也很辛苦,因為我們很了解里長有他們辛苦的所在,包含我是新北市議校的大隊長。"},{"start":10744.068,"end":10757.273,"text":"所以有很多我們的災難很多我們的很多不管說是在水域也好還是山難也好我們的很多里長他們都是站在一旁因為怎麼樣你說像疫情期間大家都是已經大家非常緊張但是里長他沒辦法去選嘛里長他也是要在我們里長他來出頭來不管說在消毒不管說是打疫苗所以他們都有他們辛苦的一面"},{"start":10773.98,"end":10790.312,"text":"所以說今天可以擺在這我也說很感謝因為我擔任召委我就說這個因為他的春節慰問金很多里長抱怨很多民意代表包括市民代表他們都有春節慰問金只有里長沒有"},{"start":10792.433,"end":10799.558,"text":"所以說在我們這次可以說我們有行政院的宴盤以及我們本席所提出的我們的法案內的我們的春節慰問金1.5個月這點我也感謝說我們的內政部以及我們行政院的宴盤都都有"},{"start":10816.751,"end":10821.054,"text":"謝謝委員對基層的關心我想我也來自基層我也知道這個村里長的確真的很辛苦"},{"start":10846.332,"end":10875.11,"text":"包括當節目時候都要贏嘛所以覺得這個我們在24年都沒有調整的情況之下那我們針對這個民意代表部分跟這個村里長的事務補助費的部分來做一個調整我認為這是一個這個很嚴肅而且是有必要去做檢討的時候因為畢竟24年在這24年當中一般的物價或者是基本工資甚至於公交人員的條件都有調過了所以我們覺得"},{"start":10875.709,"end":10895.429,"text":"這部分是院裡面院版的我們希望來這個一方面當然衛冕村里長的辛勞說我們有訂了一個事務補助費再增訂一個春節慰問金就用1.5個月來處理那至於這一個助理的部分縣議員之下縣市議員的這個助理會調整的部分那我們都很清楚就是說"},{"start":10896.215,"end":10923.775,"text":"這一個助理是由議員來雇用但是如果不足的那變成議員那自己掏腰包去雇用那以24年前這樣的一個額度現在已經經過24年其實已經要雇用真正雇用到人才或用人彈性已經幾乎是比較低了所以我們也看到這種現象我們這一次也把他納到我們整個的修法裡面把那個額度提高那另外給他加班費支錢費等等這些來見錢"},{"start":10925.07,"end":10929.45,"text":"這一個聘僱的制度跟我們用人的彈性以上做補充報告"},{"start":10929.991,"end":10958.325,"text":"好的 謝謝謝謝次長的回答其實那本席也是可以接受因為我們說地方過去你說很多議員他的助理會過去有很多助理會發生問題但是實際上大部分的議員他的助理絕對都是不夠因為他本身議員他都分商喜慶包括說最基本的你上一個會"},{"start":10959.446,"end":10959.566,"text":"委員會委員會"},{"start":10989.237,"end":10994.419,"text":"我們也覺得公民黨及民進黨及我們的民眾黨中共提出的版本有40個案雖然他們挑三個案但是還有37個案37個案包括過去"},{"start":11005.103,"end":11005.583,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":11032.152,"end":11052.83,"text":"市長,本省最關心的是我們的國土計劃法,因為目前本省的資料現在只有金門、連江、花蓮提交,其他的都還沒提交,但是這個國土計劃法是明年的4月就要上路了,所以說在這個部分,我請市長你來回答這個。"},{"start":11057.526,"end":11085.388,"text":"委員我這樣跟您報告因為到目前為止有我這邊資料是三個縣市有送過來那因為我們給他們的時間是到6月底之前要送過來那我想這段時間陸陸續續有一些縣市有一些疑慮部分我們也都一直在溝通一直在溝通當中那當然外面也有聲音就講說啊這個是不是時間是不是可以再延那目前我跟委員報告目前我們沒有這個正式上我們沒有說要延因為"},{"start":11085.928,"end":11114.549,"text":"我們認為之前整個國土計劃法的說明吶內涵幾乎都已經講過好久了那民眾的疑慮我們可以透過不斷的溝通說明去跟他們讓他們去了解那有一些他們去有疑慮的事實上那些問題不是不是問題只是不太理解的關係那我們希望用民眾的語言來跟民眾溝通讓他們充分去了解比較好我們認為說好國土計劃是一個這個這個比以前的區域計劃更嚴格還是怎麼樣"},{"start":11115.157,"end":11123.028,"text":"我想這是溝通的問題我們會加強去溝通那縣市政府我們也希望他在6月底之前能夠送過來審查的時候有什麼意見我們再來去談就好"},{"start":11124.302,"end":11145.811,"text":"好的,好的部長,因為民眾還是要充分的去溝通啦,因為沒有他們的威力齁,萬一你說過去首期版的齁,不管說在我們的說明會也好,你看民眾反彈的聲音還是非常不大,這點就是我們要去求福,好不好,好的政策,我們一定要有民眾,大家都知道嘛,好,謝謝"},{"start":11148.385,"end":11149.747,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請政事"},{"start":11168.905,"end":11194.13,"text":"我這次好好我們這次修正草案的重點您看一下有沒有錯地方民代我們調整醫院助理補助費還有他的用人的人數然後補助支應助理加班費等等的費用然後再來就是調整衛民服務費那在村里長的部分呢我們是發給春節慰勞金然後還有另外一個部分就是我非常堅持的部分原住民的區域的特殊性的問題好這幾個"},{"start":11197.099,"end":11216.335,"text":"今天要討論至於要加多少助理人員要加多少就是待會大家討論下來的結果那我特別要謝謝部長我以為他會留下來但是他離開了但是我必須要再提一下部長其實在3月8號的時候就來我辦公室拜訪我"},{"start":11217.416,"end":11230.372,"text":"當時呢他就同意地方民意代表費用支給及村里事務補助費補助條例的修法方向就是我剛剛跟你講的那三大塊然後在10月18號在這個地方我也質詢了部長的時候我針對議員還有村里長的費用"},{"start":11233.115,"end":11255.302,"text":"部長也承諾我在一個月要提出修法跟改善方案所以我是召委我本來在一個月之後就要提了那今天吳召委提了但是我比較遺憾的是既然我在3月8號已經跟部長談到這個部分的公平正義的問題但是今天行政院的版本還是沒有列入討論"},{"start":11256.702,"end":11271.811,"text":"這是我感到非常遺憾的部分反而是我們的民意代表在這邊非常的認真、用功行政院並沒有版本所以待會兒討論的時候我們並沒有行政院版本作為依據這是比較遺憾的部分另外"},{"start":11272.671,"end":11296.809,"text":"在原住民議員跟村里長的部分我要感謝部長非常記得原住民地區要是服務轄區範圍比較大啦交通非常不便增加補助但是這次您知道嗎我們原住民地區的村里長事務補助費還有議員的衛民服務費按照你們的宣布就是告訴民眾你們要增加10%"},{"start":11299.352,"end":11317.692,"text":"請問一下增加10%的計算基準是什麼然後10%的補貼到底夠不夠用我要提醒一下政事就是即便是原鄉跟偏鄉我們原鄉跟偏鄉的各鄉的交通距離跟他的成本是有所不同的所以請問一下簡單回應"},{"start":11320.275,"end":11329.941,"text":"謝謝委員的關心,我想這一部分剛剛委員指教都沒有錯,因為在原民這個地方每一個縣市的原民區都不進銷所以你們都是用比照10%這樣子來計算,例如如果按照你們來講直轄市議員我們增加到30萬的話,4萬增加到10%只有4千塊"},{"start":11344.051,"end":11370.878,"text":"然後縣市議員兩萬塊增加百分之十的話是兩千塊村里事務補助費五萬塊加百分之十就五千塊所以你覺得這樣夠嗎我們是不是等一下我們是不是因為時間的關係所以是不是我們等一下要討論我給你看一下按照我們的討論我現在用教育部的部分教育部當時我在教育文化委員會我就特別"},{"start":11371.618,"end":11398.423,"text":"把依據地理環境、交通狀況還有艱苦的城鎮這樣的因素制定在地域加急表裡面然後按照這個地域加急表裡面給予不同的補助加急那同時呢在今天的第8條裡面我有提到了我把這樣的精神放在我的版本的第8條處理這個鄭次寧知道嗎我的第8條所以你的意見對你的意見跟看法"},{"start":11401.552,"end":11421.944,"text":"這樣才真正符合公平正義嘛對不對所以你在所謂的齊頭市的公平加上10%那原鄉跟偏鄉的交通都不太一樣啊屏東你從哪裡從山地門鄉或者是從獅子鄉好了山地門鄉他要再到他的那個服務選區你知道有多廣嗎"},{"start":11424.059,"end":11434.286,"text":"對,所以我在第8條有提出來嘛因為交通地理環境不同所以呢我們給他加級表然後讓他有一個對照好不好然後同時呢我也要求村里長的事務補助費必須要按照消費者物價指數來適時的調整"},{"start":11453.819,"end":11467.304,"text":"總不能每一次任何一個行政院長上來任何一個部長上來要討好選民我們就每一次修法你認為這樣子合不合理我想單純用消費者物價指示來調那這個變動有時候會太大"},{"start":11470.629,"end":11486.821,"text":"那所以我們為什麼要提說就比照這個公務人員的這個條型公務人員的條型他考慮的面向會比較多一點比較完整一點好等一下我們繼續討論好不好在主條的時候然後另外呢我對於支持議員補助費的條型包括助理議員的加班費"},{"start":11488.803,"end":11505.615,"text":"這個部分我是沒有意見的但是但是內政部看一下101年的意旨函是說如果有加班的事實應該在規定助理補助費之下去支應或由議員自行負擔您知道嗎這樣的函式結果"},{"start":11507.836,"end":11535.996,"text":"導致我們的地方議員徵送不斷所以您認為應該怎麼處理而且我看到你們的願板部長跟我討論的你們只有一句建立內部控制制度我認為這樣子一句話並沒有真的解決問題啊所以你認為在第6條我們要怎麼樣處理用什麼樣的文字才不會讓地方議員他會因為這樣的處理而有徵送的事件"},{"start":11536.65,"end":11558.928,"text":"是 我想這一部分我們議會的內控制度我們是希望你不要再講內控制度了啦如果今天我們要修法是不是就應該要讓我們的地方的議員避免這樣的徵送的部分所以你待會要有心理準備我們會在這一條裡面讓行政院提出你們的文字版本好不好"},{"start":11559.488,"end":11577.106,"text":"最後我要為各縣市尤其是財政非常拮据的原鄉縣市來請命我們今天這些費用到底是中央買單還是地方自印我剛剛聽到部長在這邊回應剛剛還在的時候他說針對財政拮据的縣市他會專案處理是這樣嗎要怎麼專案處理"},{"start":11579.588,"end":11593.076,"text":"我想這一部分我剛才特別有提到就對於這些收支比較短差或者是比較窮的縣市那應該會有一個機制來做補貼那什麼樣的機制那這一部分可能要跟組總跟財政局你今天就要來組條了你今天就要修法了你都還要跟他們討論原來我們的條案是沒有這一部分"},{"start":11600.16,"end":11617.673,"text":"對阿你今天來你只針對要討好村里長的部分你們並沒有真正的想要來解決問題阿政治所以今天部長不留下來我覺得他不留下來有很大的因素就是不願意真正去面對處理我們現在不管是議員不管是中央買單還是縣市買單"},{"start":11621.215,"end":11634.883,"text":"所以您待會要有心理準備不能夠再用我現在執行年的態度來告訴我們在野的所有或者是所有的那個民進黨的委員我覺得這是不負責任的最後最後我要提醒您蔡英文總統在2018年說台灣的經濟目前處於過去20年來的最好的狀態"},{"start":11640.686,"end":11645.268,"text":"然後行政院長陳院長他也是在3月份的時候他也講整體的GDP大幅的成長我們的稅入稅出盈餘也很多然後呢會讓經濟越來越好我在想既然蔡政府都說這幾年經濟是非常好那麼是不是更應該要優先專案補助財政結局並且"},{"start":11664.096,"end":11680.047,"text":"因為地震而受嚴重的原鄉的縣市然後這些延伸出來的費用更應該要讓自稱經濟大好的中央來支應我想這才是符合全民的要求"},{"start":11680.747,"end":11705.452,"text":"委員這個也是事實啊,所以這幾年的傳說會不會...好,既然是事實的話,所以既然是事實的話,我們待會要處理這筆增加出來的費用到底是中央因應還是地方因應,你們就要有一個說法,如果按照你講的那個財政比較辛苦的縣市的話,你們會來專案,那怎麼樣的專案處理也要說清楚,好不好?謝謝"},{"start":11708.622,"end":11717.251,"text":"好謝謝我們高俊順的召委謝謝那下一位我們張立倫張志倫張志倫抱歉好好謝謝主席我們各位官員各位委員大家早安大家好是不是有請政次好請政次"},{"start":11734.404,"end":11754.236,"text":"委員好好謝謝政事今天很開心就是來針對這個我們不管是這個地方的民意代表及里長他這個費用的增加的一個草案的修正那剛剛我相信很多委員有請教政事他這個如果法案通過草案通過的話他是今年會發有關於這個里長的"},{"start":11758.519,"end":11772.586,"text":"委員金李長的這個年底的7萬5是今年會發還是什麼時候會發這個如果答案通過以後我們是明年1月1號明年1號要開始算所以要等到明年底才會發嗎因為春節委員金也是明年才會發"},{"start":11773.59,"end":11787.763,"text":"所以最快要等到明年1月1日才會開始等一下大家討論的那個版本後面有一條第4條是這個畫布14日起所以有辦法去改造今年發嗎有可能嗎如果大家等一下討論有沒有可能現在已經是5月份了"},{"start":11789.785,"end":11790.646,"text":"那一部分是春節慰問金"},{"start":11811.65,"end":11837.94,"text":"不是連中獎金,是春節慰問金,因為它是事務費嘛,不是事務費,我們用的是春節慰問金的春節慰問金它是事務費的性質嗎?還是什麼樣的性質?因為我們現在這個民意代表是吳啟職嘛吳啟職我們都有名字我聽到是里長啦,里長的一樣一樣所以它是有事務費的性質嗎?希望我千萬是事務費的性質嗎?它是另外一個科目叫春節慰問金的科目"},{"start":11838.18,"end":11853.934,"text":"我們只是以事務費的基準那5萬塊的基準來解釋特別要跟正式報告就是說這個如果是事務費的性質的話我覺得這是比較值得鼓勵的因為事務費對村里長來講是免稅的一個性質"},{"start":11855.876,"end":11870.676,"text":"財政部這邊的解釋也是這樣子那我們希望說這一筆錢解釋給辛苦的里長不管是過去疫情的期間或地震期間他會身先事主第一線面對所有的民眾努力所以如果你們的解釋他是以事務費的性質"},{"start":11871.637,"end":11887.466,"text":"財政部這邊就可以相對應的是可以搭配免稅的一個方案才不會讓這個里長們就是說還要當然是我們呼應誠實納稅可是這我認為他是有一點點就是為里長去著想的一個錢好不好這次這個方向可以嗎"},{"start":11888.306,"end":11911.288,"text":"謝謝委員關心這一部分我們跟這個財政部我們會來溝通我們朝這個方向來好才到這個方向來溝通那最後還有大家非常重視的因為地方的財政其實蠻拮据的所以地方當然有反映給我的一些心聲就是說這個的這個費用的經費來源大概是從哪裡可以來地方如果沒辦法支應的話經費是從哪裡來是不是中央可以來補貼"},{"start":11914.199,"end":11919.686,"text":"我想這個大概所有委員都關心關心這個到底這個錢是要中央來出還是地方來出"},{"start":11920.897,"end":11947.866,"text":"我剛才特別有報告制度歸制度有地方制度法跟財化法的規定你就是要地方來支應這個錢那至於那些比較窮困的這些我跟鄭氏報告基本上台灣這個所有的縣市應該每個縣市遇到這個都窮困可能你找不到一個縣市可以支應這些的經費所以我是不是請鄭氏就是大家討論一下由中央來支應這部分的經費"},{"start":11949.946,"end":11960.476,"text":"我跟委員報告其實我們以現在我們的統計的射算大概六度比較高大概是1億多那地方大概有幾千萬不等"},{"start":11961.567,"end":11982.806,"text":"那以最近這幾年我們的這個統籌分配款的這個波幅都已經增加很多了而且又增加好幾億那以在我們任何地方要支應這個錢基本上沒有問題但對那些財政平常比較窘困的確是有點負擔那這部分才會說我們用其他的這個收支差短的這個補貼制度來處理"},{"start":11985.096,"end":12003.186,"text":"這個部分會後我們再用書面大家來討論一下,因為我已經得到說地方的確現實是有困難的,所以拜託政事這邊一定要來協助,不要讓這個利益良善變成地方政府承受的壓力這個也很正常,如果要增加都好,如果要出錢就照樣賠的"},{"start":12004.407,"end":12019.924,"text":"對阿當然我們也是要拜託政策不能中央的政策地方來付錢好那今天還有件事要拜託政策來協助就是今天在早上我們有開一個記者會是由本席跟這個王宏威委員游宇蘭委員開了一個記者會關於這個請"},{"start":12022.347,"end":12050.274,"text":"五清節前夕可是警察媽媽的暗夜長氣的一個部分那全台灣現在有8萬的警察可是最近最近這10年這個警察的這個自殺的人數增加尤其在今年非常的不尋常已經有好幾件警員這個自殺事件拜託主席再給我一點時間尤其今天早上這個受害者的家屬有來到這個現場來去做一個陳情的部分有關於這個"},{"start":12054.636,"end":12078.734,"text":"這個事件到現在好像家屬還在認為他是沒有辦法得到結論所以是不是可以拜託就是說有針對這個案件有關於綠營黨的部分是不是可以提供出來給這個不管是律師還是當事者家屬讓他們瞭解說是不是在這個當事者這個罹難者的部分有沒有受到不當對待的部分"},{"start":12080.448,"end":12099.64,"text":"請問正式了解這個案件嗎?謝謝委員關心因為這個案子有一個是這個監察院也已經立案那另外這個案子因為當事人的家屬他有提這個訴願那訴願也決定因為這個當事人已經往生了"},{"start":12100.396,"end":12127.101,"text":"所以在程序上已經沒有主帖所以我們先程序再實體嘛所以這個案子已經不受理做不受理的決定對可是這就是被害者家屬完全不能接受的因為這個案子我還是要跟正式報告一下他這個警大在短短的4天之內就做調查終結把這個梁信學生也是我們的警員把他給做一個"},{"start":12130.047,"end":12150.281,"text":"這個讓他就是不能再唸書的一個處分讓他非常不能接受而且他在24號的時候在調查中間也有提到說他當時就身心就已經有受到有受到問題有很有可能自殺可是警大才25號還是做出了退學的這個決定然後也沒有通知這個罹難者的家屬"},{"start":12151.462,"end":12164.804,"text":"到最後他們收到通知的時候已經是準備退學的那一天所以這整個的制度都很有問題所以我要請教政事你對這件事情是不是當時為什麼僅到4天之內就做出決定是不是有受到什麼樣的壓力"},{"start":12165.675,"end":12185.735,"text":"為什麼這個案子沒有什麼壓力這個據我所了解就這個警察給我們的資料裡面在整個過程啊過程基本上是程序上是按照一既定的程序來處理當然詳細的內容我不是很了解當初他們在詢問上有沒有什麼樣的問題我不曉得但是至少警察他給我們資料是這個過程是都符合"},{"start":12186.015,"end":12186.435,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12206.63,"end":12211.531,"text":"委員好我是警大的學務長請問一下這件事情你們現在調查的結果怎麼樣給避難者的家屬一個滿意的交代跟委員報告我們在處分的當下都有告知他們"},{"start":12235.547,"end":12252.953,"text":"會否告訴家屬你們的學生有這樣的情況因為家屬回應給我的是直到退學的當天家屬才知道有這樣的事情跟委員報告一下就是我們學校處理這個是十分審慎的我們又必須經過調查以後"},{"start":12255.214,"end":12277.329,"text":"提報虛擬委員會由施生組成的虛擬委員會來審議看看對於當事人有利或是不利的部分我們都會去釐清釐清了以後按照事實來針對違規的部分來做一個懲處懲處完了以後我們也"},{"start":12279.391,"end":12296.926,"text":"會給這個獎成令。獎成令裡面我們會針對他的違規事實跟法規還有懲處的這個惡意。好,謝謝學長。因為時間的關係,是不是會後我們大家再做一個瞭解跟檢討。應該要給受害者家族一個公道,好不好?好,謝謝委員。好,謝謝。"},{"start":12300.009,"end":12320.286,"text":"好謝謝我們張志隆委員的發言那再來請我們邢欣盈委員發言然後我們中午到李坤成委員發言完畢我們就休息用餐好謝謝那我們就沒關係我們等一下發言"},{"start":12322.521,"end":12339.889,"text":"主席,本席想先在這裏有些人有疑慮對於國民黨團或是民眾黨團上週五抽出有關我們地方民意代表還有村里長春節慰問金"},{"start":12340.689,"end":12367.834,"text":"抽出提案：法案那禁負惡毒交付禁負惡毒的這個疑慮今天我們要來審查我想這個是沒有問題的因為禁負惡毒之前的協商我們今天這個討論如果有結果有結果我們是可以併案處理可以一起採納相關的內容所以本席接下來要就相關議題來請教吳次長"},{"start":12371.533,"end":12372.098,"text":"好,請我們吳次長"},{"start":12377.195,"end":12400.132,"text":"市長好首先本席想請教我們看到內政部報告的第二頁有提到議員助理補助費總額上限的問題那請問市長我想行政院版的草案雖然今天沒有送進來但行政院版的草案應該是內政部提給他的吧那針對直轄市議員跟縣市議員助理補助"},{"start":12405.169,"end":12433.742,"text":"總額的上限分別各加6萬請問你們這6萬怎麼算出來?為什麼就是上限只加6萬?報告委員在我們當初在設算的時候就我剛剛特別講在設算要跟那個助理的人數一起去考量所以委員會認為說我今天支價是為什麼一樣只加6萬那你縣市為什麼只加6萬本來他們的薪資水準就可能會不太一樣所以"},{"start":12440.05,"end":12462.606,"text":"議員的費用呢?你上限有設6萬嗎?議員一樣有設啊因為我們是補助上限最高的上限不是對啊為什麼上限是6嘛本席的案本席的提案就增加7萬啊所以首先我想請教您就您印象所及20年前的我們買一個便當一個主菜加4樣"},{"start":12463.707,"end":12464.767,"text":"現在一個主菜加四樣配菜便當要多少?"},{"start":12483.43,"end":12486.815,"text":"如果台北的話我看大概120對120這樣增加了2.5倍不到2.35所以在這種情況下我們這個地方民意代表的一些費用"},{"start":12500.292,"end":12524.611,"text":"還有助理的費用我們都沒有與時俱進所以我們特別想提醒內政部這20多年來物價一路漲如果我們看地方民意代表的費用調整你只純粹用增加支出或者是用當時立法背景的角度來談恐怕不周延特別我看到你們好像都是引用89年的立法理由"},{"start":12525.612,"end":12526.693,"text":"當初縣市議員跟鄉鎮市民代表的研究費並沒有納入主管家級這個項目,那是什麼原因?"},{"start":12545.689,"end":12567.071,"text":"報告委員 這個當初是考量到我省府那時代那一個他們的薪資如果這個加了主管家旗的話全熱超越當時的那個水準對但是那時候有那時候的背景的因素嘛所以現在我們這個應該要增加這點您認同吧"},{"start":12567.864,"end":12595.921,"text":"我想這個可以大家可以去討論所以這個物價上漲我們整個縣市議員跟鄉鎮市民代表的這個費用呢我們應該要考量基本工資還有民生物價的漲幅這個要一起考量進去這幾個變相是要應該一起去檢討所以現在我們縣市議員的費用只有83150元跟市民代表只有61830元實在太低了所以"},{"start":12596.874,"end":12610.695,"text":"本席認為要納入主管家級現在的時空背景應該可以了吧是可以齁這一部分我們尊重各位委員的意見啦這個可以討論好那再來就是剛剛很多委員在關心啊"},{"start":12611.789,"end":12629.064,"text":"今天草也應該都有共識要為地方民意代表還有我們的村里長他的慰問金來增加這個費用那大家都關心說這個費用到底要從哪裡來出那我看到我們5月2號行政院會有通過"},{"start":12630.825,"end":12655.016,"text":"內政部的新聞稿有說要依據地制法規定財源必須由地方籌措但行政院表示預計會有部分縣市需要補助請問你的部分縣市是哪些縣市你不能用顏色來分別部分縣市吧我想這不會有顏色的問題那你的部分縣市是指的是什麼"},{"start":12655.416,"end":12681.126,"text":"就是那些可能他的財政比較困難收支有差短的這一部分所以大概這些資料在財政部所以你是依據財政部的資料各縣市的收支的情況那對於很努力還債然後也很辛苦的那碰到這種情形他就沒有得中央的這個資源因為這要看每一個縣市他的收支情形"},{"start":12682.261,"end":12684.965,"text":"所以你們財政情況處理的標準是什麼?行政院表示預計會有部分縣市需要補助將是財政情況處理"},{"start":12697.722,"end":12713.475,"text":"那這個東西非常的籠統而且這個東西感覺上都有你中央說了算這個我們很憂心不會他本來就是一個機制你總要讓這些財政比較差對你什麼機制你在這邊跟大家說清楚嘛最後就這個解答這個財政部門組長那邊會有我這邊沒有啦你現在簡單跟我們講"},{"start":12720.08,"end":12747.421,"text":"因為他這有一定固定的比例啦所以你的意思是要財主他們來回答就對了對因為這跟稅收有關係嘛那你們最後確定定案定調是怎麼樣嘛我們定調就是剛剛講的就是說對於這個財政比較困難的這些縣市我們另外就按照每個縣市都說他比較困難啦好啦那你就說比較困難的那現在我們每個縣市其實財政都困難所以你們都要協助沒有啦有些縣市也很有錢啦"},{"start":12748.818,"end":12751.3,"text":"謝謝我們許新榮委員的資訊 謝謝我們下一位我們丁卓中委員 謝謝"},{"start":12777.99,"end":12789.699,"text":"主席好,請到我們次長好,請次長今天我們委員長差不多啦,次長好我們村里長是我們地方公所委員會的第一層加上我們村里長都真的非常認真付出,也很高興我們內政局及行政院"},{"start":12798.746,"end":12803.692,"text":"來宣布說要請教我們這個村里長的這個春節慰問金,這也算說讓我們賴總統的九年陣仗可以提供一篇條一個大例但是當這個過分,我們台灣請教我們國管情要請教五頁"},{"start":12817.987,"end":12819.328,"text":"5月8日及9日兩天一次會議"},{"start":12847.315,"end":12856.945,"text":"我想我們的這個報告委員齁 這個我們財政有劃分等級嘛 有分五級啊對啦 剛才你說的我都聽到 我現在要告訴你說 我們分年關一半十二年齁 我們的修理及技術差十九億啊 我們這間有合作財政付加的"},{"start":12865.43,"end":12886.523,"text":"如果假設因為我不曉得最後的數字是怎麼樣因為分林交加去港幣都很少的對 這樣分林交加如果人家還可以那個數據有沒有我說他沒有財政的那個數據我不曉得如果是這個狀況應該就會得到我們中央政府的補助假設他有差短的話就會對 就就可以了啦我先推分林管政府給你們講一下因為分林管"},{"start":12887.483,"end":12890.306,"text":"可是我了解好像移民現在這個財政越來越好"},{"start":12906.621,"end":12906.781,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12923.131,"end":12926.572,"text":"議員的處理費自民國99年至今已經20年都沒有條件：我們事長知道這中間基分公租為民國1.1萬9千塊變成至今1.132萬7千幾塊：照法庭規定"},{"start":12944.977,"end":12951.342,"text":"關於議員的租率上限是約一百萬元。依照規定是兩萬九四元,若是放車上限九四元,定義租率費用約兩萬元。但二十年前要跟政府符合基本工資。"},{"start":12967.453,"end":12974.855,"text":"但是至今已經沒有符合這個資本工資：我有知道我們最近有要來修正這個議員這個助理費提高到14萬因為我們現在很多官司我們的議員那個素質都越來越好都很多年輕人他們對著我們各官司的這個業務方針他們都非常認真所以他們要牽扯到非常專業的助理的領域所以我們如果說"},{"start":12997.783,"end":13005.008,"text":"及規定這個上限的條,我們規定這個上限的條．有可能這條政策有辦法去撐到非常重要的一個條例．所以我在這裡會拜託市長,這個國分．這個上限的國分,我們來先調整一下．像是說兩人一箱,這樣就可以打"},{"start":13017.518,"end":13017.959,"text":"還有一個問題"},{"start":13032.731,"end":13041.053,"text":"我們經常在新聞看到說議員什麼助理會什麼柵林助理會這就都去卡到堂屋了我們是公費助理我們現在的法令是公費助理我們想可以把這個公費助理給廢掉我們給他助理就我們要補助他們14萬我是希望可以給到16萬"},{"start":13056.816,"end":13064.381,"text":"對啦,我們補助他們這個助理費,我們直接給議員,他們自己主委去簽他的助理,我們就限定說兩人,要兩人醫生,對啊,他們如果說簽比較少,補負比較少,後一個月年齡,有可能補負不好年齡就比較困難,所以他們自己給他們去主委去運用,不要說因為這個公費助理,這個公費就定義是公費另外啦"},{"start":13081.731,"end":13095.441,"text":"對,第一是政府請,不是他的老闆,不是議員。我想感謝委員,委員的意見跟行政院的案版是一致的。對,都一樣啦。我們未來我們就是總要給議員自己自由去發揮嘛。是,我們只是等一個上限補。"},{"start":13097.883,"end":13098.144,"text":"對議員來說有比較好的說法"},{"start":13116.338,"end":13126.486,"text":"還有一項就是我們這個鄉民代表費為民服務費我記得我17年前我第一屆常務政理的時候我做代表那時候就三千塊跟這次也是三千塊我會告訴你我們有還要提高兩千塊到五千塊這個國分我們還有跟這個全國代表費、任議費我們有跟他們討論聽他們的心聲"},{"start":13143.963,"end":13149.536,"text":"我想這一部分在一些開會的場合大概我們都有提過那這個因為"},{"start":13152.728,"end":13170.442,"text":"代表會會比較特別是代表它是一個比較多席次的選區又比較小的那這一部分為什麼我們調整會從三千調到只調到五千呢大概考量到說因為它服務的我相信可以用次長用時間我來聯絡這個全國代表會連議會主席連議會好不好是邀請他們起來我們立法院還是跟我們那個次長我們開一個座談"},{"start":13180.41,"end":13191.878,"text":"5月20日之前可以520以後可能找不到我如果520之前你有答應520以後算不算數"},{"start":13192.523,"end":13210.836,"text":"那要看吳衛明之後我講的話算不算數哇 這樣也是要給我連消費我跟妳講實話 我跟妳講實話有啦 有時候一段時間你來延續下去啊這延續是一定會延續對啊 你們不能說現在這樣公開的 如果有時候要給我連消費 親台連連 大家湊湊的 這樣耍耍的 不能這樣啦我跟妳報告委員 這個政策已經被延續了 不然是現在我們黨內 或我們共產黨內 我們要給你們歡迎事情 你們給我用這個連消費的方式"},{"start":13222.608,"end":13224.37,"text":"我看我是5201號再用運起來好了"},{"start":13237.645,"end":13240.286,"text":"李昆辰委員我們就休息我們的中午用餐1點半再開會"},{"start":13267.005,"end":13269.21,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請次長"},{"start":13279.685,"end":13307.053,"text":"市長好 謝謝我在當議員的時候其實關於這個議員助理的心智的調整其實我們就爭取了很久然後右昌部長他當部長的時候其實我們也跟他反映過那其實很高興那這個內政部還有這麼多的委員都有提案那我也希望說能夠順利這個送入二讀然後這個會期能夠順利過關因為其實朝野都有共識當然只是有些幅度這個會有不同"},{"start":13307.813,"end":13332.226,"text":"那我有看過這個行政院的版本這個調整議員助理補助費的總額在直轄市的部分是24萬調整在30萬然後這個縣市議員部分是8萬到14萬然後這個聘用的人數呢這個取消上限這個直轄市的話至少7人然後這個縣市議員至少3人這部分我是支持的然後第二部分就是說這個"},{"start":13333.807,"end":13352.592,"text":"過去這個議員的助理只有補助這個勞保健保跟勞退嘛那現在你們這個新的這個條例是說這個用助理補助費總額外加20%來補助原有的本來的這個勞健保勞退之外擴大到這一個加班費跟資遣費嘛對不對"},{"start":13353.212,"end":13370.938,"text":"如果說外加20%的話之下市議員每個月就是6萬然後縣市議員就是2萬8千塊那我再問一下那這個增加的部分跟過去只有這個勞健保跟勞退那增加是多少可以讓這個議員來指引這個加班費跟資遣費"},{"start":13372.619,"end":13393.955,"text":"我想原來的沒有修正之前還沒修之前的4萬跟這個1.2萬基本上是支應他們的勞退跟這個勞健保跟勞退金就多2萬一個多2萬一個多1.6萬那這一部分等於拿來作為加班員之前會來使用那之前會不一定都會發生但是我是認為說"},{"start":13398.419,"end":13413.335,"text":"兩萬其實不夠啦因為我們自己有時候六日都會帶著助理跑或是說有時候晚上有活動所以這兩萬加20%這部分其實我是覺得可以再增加啦雖然說你們這個是有跟著這一個"},{"start":13417.459,"end":13438.008,"text":"公教人員的薪資調整在做調整嗎?我想這個都會去考量,主要當然也要考量到地方財政的問題當然啦,但是我個人是覺得說這部分百分之10其實不夠啦,還要再增加相對於立法委員的助理的加班費其實差距是很大"},{"start":13440.349,"end":13457.766,"text":"第三點是說這個那當然大家就很重視就是有關里長的這個加發春節慰勞金那用這個里基費的這一個5萬塊然後這個多1.5個月就是7萬5那我相信因為這個部長當初在這個三重有跟這個里長座談那里長有提出來"},{"start":13458.246,"end":13473.64,"text":"他提出這個方案那其實里長是都很支持都是很正面看待了那我相信這個很多的委員也都會支持那我也不認為說這是選舉考量有反對的我看有很多新北市議員國民黨的議員在反對我認為反對的才是選舉的考量"},{"start":13477.043,"end":13492.286,"text":"那本席因為是山崇的立委那最近有關於這一個盧北重劃案因為把這個山崇果在市場遷入引起大家的關注那我在這邊也做個說明那這個就是說因為我過去是擔任這個山崇盧州的議員"},{"start":13492.987,"end":13515.399,"text":"我長期關心這項議題。三重果菜市場的都更計畫,其實過去在朱立倫市長的時代是原地重建。在104年內政部的都市計畫委員會審議通過,那時候就是現地重建,而且先建後拆,安置原有的攤商。到了侯友宜時代才改成異地重建。"},{"start":13516.079,"end":13520.184,"text":"當時侯友宜市府在108年辦理盧北盧南重劃區的檢討案的時候那時候才把三重國債市場的遷移案納入而且在109年通過新北市都委會的審議再送內政部來審查"},{"start":13534.84,"end":13558.96,"text":"到現在都還沒有通過,為什麼?因為新北市政府是霸王硬上弓不但先上車而且到目前都還沒有補票我再說明一下,抱歉主席再給我一下時間這個盧北農的都市計畫本來要進行公覽進行公開展覽的時候在108年公展的時候那一塊地還是屬於公園綠地,公二十四"},{"start":13559.62,"end":13587.694,"text":"但是新北市政府後來在進行都市計畫審議的時候後來才又把這個山蟲果菜市場的遷移把它遷移到這一塊的原本的這個公園預定地來而且把它變更為批發市場用地然後中央當時候是建議新北市政府要補辦公展但是到目前為止新北市政府一直沒有補辦公展然後就把案子送到內政部來所以我說他是霸王硬上弓"},{"start":13588.234,"end":13600.868,"text":"先上車而且到目前為止都沒有補票這是我在當議員的時候就要求這個新北市政府要辦公宅到目前為止都還沒有那新北市政府呢不僅在程序上有問題還在實際上規劃也有問題因為侯市長為了要把這個三重國債市場搬來這個盧北重劃區把它綁在一起弄了一個銀河灣的計畫"},{"start":13610.597,"end":13636.124,"text":"這個計劃就是在原本的24公園預定地 劃設一個3.5億公頃的批發市場用地然後他又包山包海 給盧州市民一個期待他說我們除了有三重果山市場搬過來之外 我們要把它立體化要做什麼呢 國際會議中心 會展中心 購物中心 休閒旅館等等但是最重要的交通的問題 到目前為止仍然無解"},{"start":13636.824,"end":13657.786,"text":"所以本席認為說 這個不是中央在卡新北 是新北市政府在卡山崇跟卡蘆洲山崇國際市場遷移案呢 如果按照目前的規劃 是造成這個山崇跟蘆洲的雙輸而且造成這個山崇蘆洲的市民的對立 所以我認為它是一個雙輸的都更案"},{"start":13658.527,"end":13673.591,"text":"所以本席是建議新北市政府要重新思考三重果菜市場是全國水果交易量最大的批發市場交通便利絕對是影響市場生意好壞最重要的關鍵那如果他沒有辦法解決交通問題未來牽過去對三重果菜市場好嗎?"},{"start":13684.5,"end":13691.589,"text":"新北市政府要重新思考不要把問題全部都丟給中央然後就說中央在卡新北"},{"start":13695.37,"end":13721.058,"text":"對於地方的重大建設不管都更或重大建設中央只有協助不會去卡那這一部分這個新北到現在因為還沒有提送這個補充資料來說明所以我們也希望新北趕快把這個資料提送到我們的土地徵收小組或專案小組來這個談那該我們協助我們一定會全力來協助會盡速來審查因為這個部長也跟侯市長有談過了那我覺得就是說我們要把這個事情的來龍去脈講清楚"},{"start":13722.498,"end":13723.539,"text":"謝謝理工程委員的資訊謝謝處長現在我們休息我們中午用餐"},{"start":16404.738,"end":16407.899,"text":"好我們繼續開會我們現在請我們鄭天才委員出行謝謝主席有請次長好請次長好謝謝委員好次長是這個520就"},{"start":16436.184,"end":16439.348,"text":"希望有更好的安排我們看這個在111年111年3月30號本席當時擔任這個內政委員會的召委"},{"start":16452.728,"end":16474.506,"text":"安排了這個地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費的補助條例當時這個本席的質詢的投影片是特別提到這個村里長的事務費21年都未調整這個而且21年來"},{"start":16476.596,"end":16476.836,"text":"在行政院板"},{"start":16504.512,"end":16531.421,"text":"雖然還沒有復委還沒有到進入委員會開始並安審查但是你們也呼應了這個民意的需求也特別提出了這個行政院版這個部分都是一個應該要去考量的部分那我們地方民意代表包含了這個直轄市議員縣市議員"},{"start":16534.001,"end":16562.368,"text":"還有這個鄉鎮市民代表還有7名代表所以這個部分是應該應該要一併的去去檢討那我們看這個我自己的條文跟我認為要更精進的部分就是說因為原住民族第7尤其是我們原住民的部落村子非常大"},{"start":16563.198,"end":16586.795,"text":"非常遼闊這個0與0之間家父與家父之間的紀理都是相當相當的嚴所以相關的部分這個希望能夠對於這個村里長的部分應該有所考量然後應該要隨著這個物價指數來做這個調整所以這個部分是應該要去"},{"start":16593.238,"end":16620.354,"text":"考量的部分當然這個除了村里長之外像那個鄉鎮市民代表一樣就原住民的部分也是一樣這個我一直認為現在的鄉鎮市民代表或是縣市議員直轄市議員去比照那個主管比如說這個鄉鎮市民代表比照課長這個"},{"start":16623.581,"end":16649.911,"text":"這個而且是八指等一接那那個像那個縣市議員呢比照這個處長九指等現在十指等了幾指等現在十指等十指等但是公務員他我們都知道啊公務員都會一年一年調啊對不對會調啊"},{"start":16654.082,"end":16671.046,"text":"像那個直轄市一樣啊,局長十三指等,他要一階二階三階,他要到年功夫啊,我們都沒有啊,再做幾十年也是一樣啊,所以這個部分也是一個必須要去思考的地方。"},{"start":16672.694,"end":16700.095,"text":"那我們看這個我們就講直轄市議員的助理今天很多都是談到助理的部分助理的部分確實也是一樣必須去考量從過去到現在也都沒有去調然後這個相關的人數和總額都必須去考慮所以這個部分希望這個在我們的"},{"start":16701.195,"end":16719.111,"text":"有竹條審查的時候內政部及相關的部會應該給最大的一個支持以上謝謝謝謝委員這一部我們都有把它涵蓋在內好謝謝我們鄭天才委員的執行那下一位我們武力法委員好"},{"start":16731.598,"end":16732.239,"text":"謝謝主席有請次長"},{"start":16737.689,"end":16765.518,"text":"市長好今天大家來審查來討論我們的這個民代條例看起來都是草野共同支持那特別是要感謝我們很難得看到我們這麼多年訂定這個條例以來第一次看到行政部門主動提出而且是大幅的調升那這個部分呢我看到的就是說物價指數年增率"},{"start":16766.218,"end":16792.616,"text":"是上揚了那綠年的基本工資調整呢也是急劇拉大很多那再來就是這一些年來的公務人員的調薪我們也看到特別是蔡英文總統任內她就連續調了三次所以種種的條件之下呢我們這次能夠主動提出這樣的一個修法我是非常肯定也非常感動"},{"start":16793.476,"end":16820.727,"text":"但事實上這個大幅提升確實也不是說沒有道理那我過去我也不斷的接到這一方面的陳情我也透過公文也好質詢也好那多次的來反映民意我特別要講的是說像每一次我們提出這樣的意見像上一屆村里長其實村里長的事務費要把它調高"},{"start":16821.647,"end":16847.455,"text":"我是有把它放在我第一次參選的政見當中表示地方這樣的聲音期待很久那也很高興上一次我們已經把村里長的事務費調高了5000元可是這一次我們依舊還是要提出那我在這邊要談的就是關於地方民代因為地方民代我看現行條文跟我的版本"},{"start":16848.652,"end":16877.039,"text":"不僅僅我提出的是議員的部分村里長的部分我的版本是特別提到我也想要把鄉鎮市民代表的部分希望來做處理那為什麼因為我要講的就是我看到我們目前地方啊像這一些代表們大致災害小致地方的商帳補助其實他們很忙的"},{"start":16878.021,"end":16899.537,"text":"可是我覺得對我來講更重要的是其實在我們的鄉民代表會在我們的鄉也有很多的地方自治事項可是沒有助理我們沒有給他們支持所以我們看到日本我們很羨慕像日本有很多什麼東川丁啊古川丁啊等等等"},{"start":16900.518,"end":16920.713,"text":"他們鄉的自治單位做的地方創生過去我們談的社區營造他們都可以透過他們地方的這樣的一個自治條例把整個鄉還有每個村落都可以規劃得非常好相當的具有我們的公民素養素質"},{"start":16922.094,"end":16944.412,"text":"所以我一直覺得這個部分其實是非常重要的但是我這一次看到我們這一次的修法那不曉得為什麼獨露這一些鄉鎮市民代表所以我想要問一下次長如果說我們以增加3萬元也好6萬元的助理費也好我們大概會需要增加多少費用很困難嗎"},{"start":16947.32,"end":16960.365,"text":"謝謝我們委員的對我們地方民意代表跟村里長的這個事務補助費的關心那我想跟委員報告就這一次為所我們在這個鄉鎮市民代表部分我們並沒有"},{"start":16961.118,"end":16963.701,"text":"但是我剛才講的這一些您覺得有沒有道理?"},{"start":16984.619,"end":16999.806,"text":"當然這個代表在各鄉鎮市當然也有它的功能不過它服務的範圍比這個縣市議員是比較小一點所以我們就沒有把它規範在那裡但是我們有把它的這個衛民的服務費"},{"start":17002.108,"end":17023.96,"text":"我想他們非常需要助理我覺得這個對我們整個我們的行政體系也好或者是地方自治的系統也好其實這是很基礎很重要的單位那我會繼續關心繼續質詢我希望未來也有更多的版本更多的立法委員那也希望我們內政部也要主動的來提出好不好"},{"start":17025.14,"end":17037.847,"text":"最後我要講的就是我這一次也特別提出因為我過去也一直質詢不斷地強調我們原住民我知道的一個村最高我知道的是管10個部落"},{"start":17038.697,"end":17038.717,"text":"委員會長"},{"start":17060.018,"end":17075.174,"text":"委員會來支持也有做這樣的一個修法版本那包括能夠編列給他們春節慰勞金還有這個年終工作獎金那這個部分我都覺得非常的好那我其實是本來想要問說內政部為什麼有這樣的一個態度的轉變"},{"start":17077.056,"end":17086.463,"text":"我其實是覺得非常的高興那我想最後因為時間的關係我只想問這個地方政府這個增加的費用他們有沒有辦法支應那我們打算如何來補貼我想這一部分在中央或者地方去支應這一筆錢的部分早上剛剛特別有講那這個會考量到財政的狀況"},{"start":17102.679,"end":17104.083,"text":"所以您的意思是說是可以支應的?"},{"start":17110.427,"end":17115.669,"text":"那會有配套...對,所以你們已經有規劃了我們今天就要討論啦,我相信你們應該有規劃吧不可能隨便拿出一個版本出來所以是有機制的,所以這個地方我們是不用去擔憂的因為很多人擔心啊但是你們有去做規劃有做配套嘛對不對"},{"start":17138.4,"end":17152.431,"text":"這一部分我想財主單位在我們這個定案以後他就會去規劃後面的這些好那我們就盡快來定案好謝謝市長謝謝主席謝謝吳立法委員的知見下一位黃國昌委員謝謝主席麻煩有請市長好請處長"},{"start":17169.468,"end":17197.244,"text":"委員好市長上次在質詢內政部部長的時候我知道今天好像部長有事就先離開了吧沒有關係有公路大家可以諒解大家目前針對平均地權條例我們發現的現象是說本來司法人是禁止買住宅的司法人是禁止買住宅的那授權給內政部在一些例外的狀況可以允許他買"},{"start":17198.297,"end":17212.831,"text":"當我們發現內政部在審核這些例外的狀況的時候實在是荒腔走板有些人透過他設立的投資公司議員公司申請向你們買宿舍你們竟然內政部也核准了"},{"start":17214.541,"end":17236.675,"text":"這種誇張的狀況從3.2億的豪宅甚至到5.6億的文化院我上次質詢過部長部長說這個不對這個不對這個不應該許可那我現在的問題來了如果按照現行的辦法他本來就不應該許可現在內政部打算要怎麼辦"},{"start":17239.453,"end":17239.473,"text":"為什麼?"},{"start":17267.288,"end":17288.471,"text":"因為依法你當初已經核准人家了先提一下依照行政程序法裏面違法的行政處分要不要撤銷對啊那部長也說這不應該嘛那這為什麼不是違法的行政處分這個當初你要看他當初這個購買的時候我們核准人家當初他是不是違法事情非常簡單啦是"},{"start":17289.427,"end":17313.488,"text":"議員公司買宿舍一個人住這個叫宿舍嗎這個是符合當初我們在平均地權條例要開的例外條款嗎為什麼我認為這是一個違法的行政處分因為他根本就不符合例外所應該允許的狀況對正部卻允許了所以我認為是違法的行政處分我上一次"},{"start":17314.754,"end":17338.098,"text":"請教林克昌部長的時候他有認為說這個不應該準這個是林克昌部長講的喔但內政部在面對這個問題的時候你不能夠在國會一手說這個不應該準結果轉身回去到內政部的時候說啊既然準了就準了這個我們也沒有辦法處理這個態度不對吧來請教次長"},{"start":17338.678,"end":17343.92,"text":"我先提一下齁你把不應該准的東西現在把它解釋成不是我們不應該准只是因為規範不足"},{"start":17361.957,"end":17387.538,"text":"這是兩件不一樣的事啊市長你應該可以區別吧是不應該準確準了跟啊是因為規範不足所以我們準了這兩個不一樣的事嘛所以現在內政部的立場是什麼是李耀昌部長上次在這邊講說這不應該準是在講空話嗎是在講空話嗎因為現在大家都很關心啊是非常多人都很關心啊"},{"start":17389.412,"end":17414.484,"text":"不應該準的卻準了結果我們內政部軟趴趴是碰到這些什麼大富翁大富豪大財團膝蓋很軟沒有辦法執行法律嗎請教次長也不是啦現在就是因為我們發現到有這樣的漏洞了嘛所以我們現在才要把他拼起來嘛所以從內政部的立場來講你們認為之前的行政處分沒有問題是法規有問題是嗎"},{"start":17416.428,"end":17438.316,"text":"是當初我們也沒有去考慮到說你現在當初的規範不足就是你讓一個人的公司怎麼可以去買豪宅時機有限我尊重接下來的委員但我覺得立場要講清楚第一個第一個對內政部今天這樣子的態度我不同意我為什麼不同意不應該準的東西確準的你們就要處理"},{"start":17439.229,"end":17462.364,"text":"而不是李耀昌部長在這邊跟全國民眾說這不應該這不應該准結果今天的說法變了今天的說法變成了是說那個是因為之前的規範有問題我們來修規範那至於之前准的怎麼辦也沒有打算要怎麼辦這是我的立場這是我的立場第二個"},{"start":17463.871,"end":17479.96,"text":"就你們現在目前遇到修正的司法人買受公住宅使用的房屋許可辦法今天早上我跟奧斯的朋友跟關心居住正義的朋友我們開了一個記者會我們開了記者會的訴求非常的清楚"},{"start":17480.74,"end":17510.263,"text":"你們即使修訂了這個辦法沒有辦法解決問題那為什麼沒有辦法解決問題包括了說你們現在員工的人數從一人修正為五個人就可以那當初陳泰銘滿文華院他是六個人啊按照你們修正的辦法就可以啦最嚴重的事情是什麼最嚴重的事情是你們根本沒有列管追蹤使用狀況的查核機制啊"},{"start":17510.799,"end":17534.788,"text":"沒有列管使用狀況的查核機制那等於是空的嘛等於是空的嘛你事後像現在一樣發現啊 原來他不是宿舍你有沒有辦法怎麼樣嘛你甚至沒有機會去了解他根本就不是拿來當宿舍用嘛所以今天我們剛剛奧爾斯開的記者會我們的訴求很清楚這件事情"},{"start":17535.848,"end":17551.018,"text":"由新的部長由新的部長聆聽所有關心居住正義跟平均地權條例的公民還有公民團體的心聲再做決策不要在林佑昌部長下台以前匆匆通過可以嗎"},{"start":17552.12,"end":17554.561,"text":"謝謝黃國昌委員的執行 下一位委員我們洪孟楷委員"},{"start":17589.039,"end":17591.262,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請次長好請次長官員好"},{"start":17595.956,"end":17620.795,"text":"市長,很多委員都關心這樣子一個村里長的相關的費用以及我們民代議員助理的費用我們這邊內政部也提出來行政院的版本我先糾正一下並不是我們現在在討論第9屆就已經有委員提出第10屆也有委員提出那當時的內政部部長或是相關的代表講什麼"},{"start":17623.286,"end":17640.745,"text":"那個時候都講說地方財政困難都講說地方各縣市的議會財源不一地方財政困難對村里長地方政府的財源不一也是對議員的助理所以那個時候都動著不動那現在"},{"start":17642.026,"end":17650.554,"text":"行政院竟然已經有推出版本行政院版的草案議員助理費是從24萬直轄市24萬變30萬縣市議員是8萬到14萬對嘛是所以你們說直轄市議會每年會增加2億7千多萬縣市議會增加3億8千多萬是那這裁員怎麼來"},{"start":17670.955,"end":17687.41,"text":"村里長的部分年終獎金年終慰問金不能講獎金年春節慰問金行政院的版本陳建仁院長那時候也喊出來並且有講說初估會增加五億多元是五億多那這裁員怎麼來"},{"start":17688.53,"end":17711.905,"text":"因為這個都屬於地質法律的這個地方自治所以我那一屆就一直講啊現在是中央請客地方買單啊這個也不是中央請客啊這怎麼不是中央請客地方買單我們每一個委員的版本可能有更多那可能有更多的情況下但至少你行政院今天要負責任啊提出來的版本你們既然有行政院版你就應該是行政院要裁員出來不是嗎"},{"start":17713.746,"end":17729.579,"text":"還是你要有各縣市不一的補助因為本時剛剛聽到很多委員也在請教你啊財源的部分你有講是說看各縣市情況那會不會造成有些縣市有拿到補助有些縣市拿不到補助所以這個為什麼要看縣市的財源的問題財政狀況的問題"},{"start":17731.58,"end":17753.016,"text":"這不對啦這樣就大小眼啦我們中央怎麼會對各縣市有大小眼之分呢有些縣市的財源是地方政府自己籌措有些縣市的財源是中央補助給地方讓地方去發這樣就變成說中央可以這樣子發錢我看這個縣市感覺比較好還是這個縣市顏色跟我比較相近"},{"start":17753.757,"end":17760.283,"text":"那會不會又變成是藍綠之分這個不會啊怎麼不會那你的標準是什麼你的標準是什麼因為等一下主席也宣布說我們下午可能會有主條討論啊那你在主條討論的時候一定要告訴我們清楚明白講說我們的這個財源怎麼來以及你的機制是什麼啊是"},{"start":17775.1,"end":17796.058,"text":"我想這個都有一個固定的機制現在我要報告的就是說在地方制度法跟財務法的規定那這些都屬於地方的自治事項那這些相關的預算就由地方來編類那如果假設你的財政比較困窮呢我們就另外一個機制收支差短來補貼如果說趙市長你剛剛講法的話那你之前第9屆第10屆黨籍就沒有意義啦"},{"start":17798.34,"end":17824.639,"text":"你之前第9屆第10屆如果說你可以講是說啊這都是地方我們尊重地方那第9屆的時候委員也好議員也好大家都有提出來為什麼那時候你們要打你那麼說講是說就是地方財政困難你們考慮地方的標準所以說你們不願意讓他過那你現在讓他過你現在提出來行政院的版本之後你告訴大家那你們自己畫的這一個部分"},{"start":17825.441,"end":17841.276,"text":"年終會問金5萬乘以1.5個月那是比照我們公務員的這個1.5個月嘛對不對參考嘛那你參考這部分結果你這財源還是一樣要地方政府籌編那這樣之前你們黨的意義是什麼"},{"start":17842.25,"end":17863.152,"text":"以前那也不是黨啊以前你可能考量到地方財政關係這幾年的財政狀況有改善啊我先來讓你我不要扣你帽子但是我先告訴你啦說實在話第9屆第10屆各黨團都提出版本啊就只有行政院一直沒有提出版本所以說大家會覺得卡就卡在行政部門嘛"},{"start":17864.192,"end":17886.529,"text":"那你現在我都不講說政治考量喔我都不講是說內政部長跑到地方的實查活動然後突然間宣布了大家怎麼說聖誕老公公來了要發紅包了這不是啊你只是講的是說我們中央願意通過有春節慰問金有議員的薪水提高那裁員怎麼來你們自己去想辦法"},{"start":17888.755,"end":17904.834,"text":"這樣不就是把責任又推給地方嗎那你這樣子的話地方政府哪一個地方政府會不接受那如果說你是要讓地方政府去編列裁員的話那你之前第9屆為什麼就不通過因為責任還在地方政府身上啊不是嗎"},{"start":17906.119,"end":17931.038,"text":"當初的考量為什麼會沒有通不是因為黨的關係我相信這個東西這個議題是一個比較嚴肅的議題當然是嚴肅的議題就是因為嚴肅的議題就是因為是嚴肅的議題所以我們才不要政治思維來想所以我們才會覺得說奇怪怎麼會內政部部長上任了一年多的時間這都沒有處理到要卸任了520了而且看開名單一看新娘不是我了"},{"start":17931.838,"end":17951.72,"text":"內政部部長已經有新的人選出來了賴清德總統已經指派新的人選了我才用地方的行程去講說那我們要來通過那這樣子會讓大家覺得奇怪所以我們才會講你既然你今天要負責任提出行政院版我肯定有提出行政院版的負責"},{"start":17952.481,"end":17980.83,"text":"那你提出行政院版你要負責任連同裁員一起提出啊而不是說你的行政院版我今天沒有講說委員的版本你都要有裁員哦委員的版本有更高的大家會爭相24萬不夠我要48萬我要多少錢那當然提出這個版本可能行政部門中央還要這些算算盤但你至少你行政院的版本裡面你們就要有裁員啊而不是你們行政院版本出來你還是要讓地方付錢啊"},{"start":17981.71,"end":18001.302,"text":"不是這樣嗎?案期制本來就是應該他目前我們先講啊 制度性先那如果說案期制是地方不足的話那這樣子你就不用審查啦那為什麼你要審查?你們過去一直強調過去一直講說地方財源困難然後各縣市議會財源不易所以說你們不願意放不是嗎?市長是"},{"start":18004.161,"end":18020,"text":"等一下主條都這個這個這個問題非常嚴重而且這個是中央負責的態度如果說今天中央只通過但是你沒有準備裁員那很抱歉你們就玩假的而且這樣就真的坐實了中央請客地方買單"},{"start":18021.431,"end":18045.404,"text":"我覺得這絕對不是我們應該要推動的村里長很辛苦我們大家都認同地方議員的助理很辛苦也因為這過去二十幾年都沒有調漲所以大家也都希望調漲但是既然中央提出來這樣的版本你們就應該要負責裁員這才是負責任的做法啊我想這個案子等一下主條的時候我也請求主席一定要讓次長這邊報告到底你們現在規劃的裁員是什麼"},{"start":18046.044,"end":18060.249,"text":"不是說看縣市還是不是說這個還沒有先排這個照理講應該今天要討論主條的時候你們就要先提出來你的報告裡面就要寫清楚而不是讓大家還在那邊詢問以上 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝黃孟楷委員多資訊 謝謝好 下一位楊瓊英委員"},{"start":18074.175,"end":18077.818,"text":"市長好,今天討論的議題我記得每一屆我都會提出來尤其是村里長,村里長當時本席提出了四項結果就通過了第一個事務費"},{"start":18100.516,"end":18122.298,"text":"當時制定4萬5那隨後再上一屆我們再提就改為5萬那第二個也就是保險費那個健康檢查所以當時通過了事先先通過這兩項可是在這個本席的提案還有兩項沒有通過第一個就是春節慰問金"},{"start":18123.399,"end":18138.193,"text":"第2個就是出國考察也就是村里長的考察費那我今天非常歡喜我看到行政院也好藍綠白大家都希望因為現在村里長的壓力非常的大"},{"start":18138.954,"end":18138.974,"text":"議員．審查"},{"start":18156.783,"end":18175.914,"text":"年尾2月5日也有理定的事就是如此你拼命的點頭也知道他們的辛苦所以第一個春節慰問金1.5個月這是大家都是非常認同對不對那你這個如果我們在這個會期通過呢什麼時候要發呢"},{"start":18177.263,"end":18181.506,"text":"謝謝委員對村里長這個事務的關心明年的1月1號開始實行你是要到年底才發還是114年初就發不是1月份就2月份左右吧就在114年好那我們確認時間那1.5個月大家確定那誰出錢"},{"start":18207.473,"end":18212.916,"text":"這個剛剛大家還在討論的中央出錢不是中央出錢春節未運金你當由中央來買單"},{"start":18219.408,"end":18239.978,"text":"全部加起來才5億多李當由中央買單這是本席的意見因為各縣市的財政不一我們要充分的尊重我們所有的村里長所以李當7748村里到目前為止應當這5億多要有中央買單你認同嗎"},{"start":18242.594,"end":18244.596,"text":"錯!因為我們的地方自治法裡頭以及我們的財政劃分法本來就沒公平"},{"start":18263.593,"end":18289.443,"text":"所以李當春節慰問金他不是薪水他不是薪水李當要由中央來出本席把我這個立場跟我們中國國民黨的立場一定要告訴你你要接受你要接受委員的這個意見我們尊重了好謝謝你一句尊重接下來本席要來跟你討論也就是我們在地方議會裡頭這一些助理人員"},{"start":18292.588,"end":18319.856,"text":"我們的村里長21年沒調整 對不對那我們的這個議會21年沒調整24年沒調整真的在議會裡頭的公費助理想要請不上因為目前的現況不管是所有的通膨物價指數的增高沒有理由不提升 對不對是啊 這一次我們這一次修法的原因"},{"start":18321.226,"end":18348.399,"text":"也是你們修法的原因嗎那這個是大家都非常的關心我們也希望待會在主條討論的時候我們要朝這個方向那特別村里長的部分本席還提到一點也就是村里長他沒有薪水但是他因公傷亡的應該要給予協助講補助是很難過但是應該要協助這一部分我們有保險對不對我們幫他們辦保險"},{"start":18349.875,"end":18368.859,"text":"不夠啊我們現在保險從五百萬拉到一千萬再去盤點好不好沒辦法啦是因公傷亡的應該要給村里長一定要給他們協助這是最基本的嘛你去盤點你現在有五百萬到現在多少一千萬你去盤點看他們的單項不是數額的問題"},{"start":18376.781,"end":18377.482,"text":"你去盤點那個內容我覺得這一項非常重要好不好你盤點好"},{"start":18394.232,"end":18412.607,"text":"詳細的順利資料給本席好不好那最後在這個在1分鐘就好在我們的議會裡頭本席的提案公費的部分呢就是公衛會公衛助理適用的勞基法裡頭的規定如加班費勞保健保"},{"start":18414.076,"end":18426.168,"text":"老退金、雇主負擔的部分、勞工職災受的保惠應該要比照公教人員年終工作獎金卓越給予未老金"},{"start":18430.992,"end":18447.868,"text":"這個部分本期覺得非常的重要我們希望在討論的時候能夠納入好不好讓我們的最基層的第一線因為從這一次的疫情你就可以知道我們的村里長跟我們的林長是多麼多麼多麼的辛苦他們所做的事情有多少你應該認同吧"},{"start":18449.91,"end":18465.278,"text":"所以我們一定要好好的要謝謝他們把他們法治化尊重他們好不好謝謝謝謝楊從英委員的花言之心那下一位請我們盧憲伊委員之心請次長請次長"},{"start":18482.17,"end":18494.437,"text":"市長辛苦了我們先看一下目前美國的一個平均月薪那你大概知道我們目前的平均月薪嗎?如果以勞工來說"},{"start":18496.268,"end":18522.386,"text":"現在好像是4萬8千如果總收入的話應該是5萬8千所以目前美國的話這是平均就是3千美金最少的話是2千5百也就是7萬6跟9萬左右那我們先看別的國家是這樣我們下一頁他們在他做了1990年一直到現在的一個議員的一個"},{"start":18524.093,"end":18527.597,"text":"次長先知道說等下要講的理由是什麼?"},{"start":18541.747,"end":18556.084,"text":"我們現在都是用最低的標準在看比如說我們現在是八萬塊然後我們說如果要請三位助理的話可能就不符這個最低薪資所以我們其實基本上這個邏輯都是在最低的一個門檻那2400億是從1月1號到現在所欠的"},{"start":18560.222,"end":18560.422,"text":"主席"},{"start":18579.579,"end":18589.593,"text":"每一個委員他雇用的人數不一定是一樣的如果按照我的想法就是能夠增加到"},{"start":18593.078,"end":18608.916,"text":"新市議員是16萬的話我的想法就是他我們先行規定是6到8位2到4位如果用那個剛才所謂的勞工的基本薪水的話大概請不到7位然後新市的話請不到4位所以我才會希望能夠至少這32萬跟16萬這是最低門檻"},{"start":18611.579,"end":18625.542,"text":"我一直要強調的是這一點好不好然後希望那個法制化的部分上面有寫公費助理各項補助加班之前職災補助我希望他的那個加班是可以有上限"},{"start":18626.877,"end":18653.526,"text":"可是不要有那個要應該可以時報時效像我們公務員他之前我在當公務員的時候他就說你一個月不能加班超過多少個小時不是20小時好了應該是這樣然後時報時效然後如果說他是路程的關係比如說加了油買了車票我應該我覺得應該要尤其是偏遠地區這邊請市長這邊再考慮可以嗎感謝內政部採納本席的意見就是原民地區是5萬5"},{"start":18654.912,"end":18681.913,"text":"那當然之前也很多委員都已經說了按照以後的那個生活的基準再調整那我希望出國考察能夠強制能夠執行如果不能出國也是我們在本國的一個理由也可以因為其實他的理由是希望能夠村里長能夠休息因為他們只要在部落或是在地的話他們根本就沒有時間休息從早上6點開始morning call一直到晚上他們基本都在為民服務"},{"start":18682.734,"end":18699.507,"text":"那強制他們休息也可以促進他們的身體的健康跟家庭的和諧我希望是這樣那剛才我有聽到你說已經調整到一千萬我就不用再提了那下一頁那我的主條就是我的修正案已經有列印出來了那在最後一頁"},{"start":18702.064,"end":18720.861,"text":"修正這4萬2萬跟5千我希望這個是基本的那我們知道原住民地區剛剛有很多委員說我們原住民地區有些村莊不是只有一村他還管了好多個部落這樣的一個等級你要怎麼去算有一個方法就是你車站多遠你醫院多遠在那個等級來算的話你會比較清楚"},{"start":18721.647,"end":18723.229,"text":"主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席"},{"start":18752.216,"end":18768.044,"text":"主席,在場的委員先進,列席的政府機關所長官員,會場工作夥伴,媒體記者女士先生,有請次長。好,請次長。好,謝謝。委員好。次長辛苦了。是是。主席,我請教你一件事。是。我們現在全國的村里長,村長及里長,我們的事務費都一樣。"},{"start":18774.559,"end":18794.689,"text":"有分嗎?有沒有分六都的比較多,非六都的比較少?沒有。但是有哪個地區的村長會比較多?這個大概有一些直轄市就會比較多。原住民地區嗎?一般是五萬嘛,原住民五萬五嘛。你認為這合理嗎?"},{"start":18796.226,"end":18817.877,"text":"我認為合理因為多位地區人口密集村里長要做服務其實雖然人多可是跑腿起來不會很辛苦你同意嗎?是 這個我同意原住民地區剛剛我們幾位原住民的委員包括吳立法委員包括幾位委員都說什麼?都說我們原住民地區的村長很辛苦你同意嗎?"},{"start":18818.777,"end":18834.291,"text":"所以你覺得可以不一樣嘛不是因為他的人口比較多是因為他區域比較遼闊區域比較遼闊所以他的負擔比較沉重所以事務會給他多一些這個邏輯你同意齁好那我們來看一下縣市議員的助理補助費我們來看一下"},{"start":18838.75,"end":18867.161,"text":"6都的你從24調到30人數從6至8調到至少7人非都的8萬調到14萬2至4人到變3人原來如果是非都的縣市議員他只有原來的6都的三分之一調了之後還不到一半人數也是一樣就算調整之後也不到一半你覺得去分6都跟非6都非6都的縣議員他們縣市議員的助理的補助費不到直轄市的一半你覺得這樣合理嗎"},{"start":18868.181,"end":18890.476,"text":"為什麼?為什麼會這樣?這個直轄市喔,六都直轄市跟這個縣市本來他的這個薪資水準本來就不太一樣。所以我跟你說,我來看一下啦,你們是印到人口啦,我再算給你看以屏東縣跟台南市來比比看啦,人口數我們少他一百萬出頭啦,一元席次我們少他兩席"},{"start":18890.996,"end":18916.433,"text":"但是原鄉的部分我們人比較多扣掉原鄉的議員數再用非原鄉的人口去算平均屏東縣的平地的非原住民的議員大概1.74萬就產生一個如果是台南都的話大概是3.4萬所以我們的選民產生的縣市議員大概是都的一半啦所以大概你們這樣算一算齁就是算出這個來了是不是這樣的原因是是這樣嗎 往下看"},{"start":18917.932,"end":18938.913,"text":"但是呢我們來看一下產生議員的面積啊桃園都跟新北都啦跟我們屏東縣比起來啦我們屏東縣的總面積比他大很多啦原住民的地區先拿掉你不要說我們來原住民地區的行政轄區來灌水扣掉原住民地區的選區非原住民地區的選區我們大概60.3平方公里就要有一個議員來服務"},{"start":18940.074,"end":18961.385,"text":"那其他的桃園的跟新北的服務的範圍大概20平方公里或30平方公里剛剛不是有說嗎?原住民的村里長為什麼?他人靠沒那麼多啊但是他開的很快啊所以村里長事務你們給他多嘛我支持啊那為什麼你們非六度的縣市議員下一頁為什麼你按照人口數來分配呢?為什麼?"},{"start":18965.755,"end":18981.686,"text":"市長你剛剛不是講了嗎?我們都支持原住民地區範圍廣闊、人口比較少,但是相對更辛苦。按照這個邏輯,我們非六都的縣市園範圍更廣闊,雖然選民數比較少,但是是不是應該?就算沒那麼多也要比較,你說怎麼樣是不是這樣?"},{"start":18983.783,"end":18991.787,"text":"我想這個比較特別的是...比較特別?邵俊賢:「邵俊賢!」邵俊賢:「邵俊賢!」邵俊賢!邵俊賢!邵俊賢!邵俊賢!邵俊賢!邵俊賢!邵俊賢!邵俊賢!邵俊賢!邵俊賢!邵俊賢!邵俊賢!"},{"start":19008.168,"end":19031.084,"text":"那這一部分如果假設你用面積用人口算當然這都是在考量在內啦是啦因素都會考量在內啦所以我現在在跟你表達啦就算我傳你到科魯就是說原鄉的部分雖然人口比較少可是幅員遼闊我們支持讓原住民原鄉的村里長的事務費要左右提高反映他的工作的負荷同樣的道理"},{"start":19031.804,"end":19050.018,"text":"都跟非都的縣市議員非都的縣市議員服務比較遼闊雖然選民人口比較少但是你們給他的助理的配置待遇的配置人數跟金額都不能相稱嘛所以這點可不可以要檢討一下這個當然可以來檢討是說因為有一些東西是人類比較集中嘛"},{"start":19051.107,"end":19052.469,"text":"非六都的縣市議員我們不是在幫民意代表爭取福利"},{"start":19066.483,"end":19090.375,"text":"我們因為民意代表報告立法院要配置助理才能為民服務那目前為六都的縣市議員明顯的待遇不如六都人數助理人數比較少我們是在幫他的助理爭取權益啊他現在請三個人是不是比別人還累比六都的助理還辛苦我們要注重助理的勞工權益你支不支持是這我們支持啊好最後一個我們來看一下這一次主席來揚你我們來看一下"},{"start":19093.576,"end":19117.435,"text":"難道這次全國目前在上週五近乎二讀的有三個版本是在討論地方民意代表的費用支給跟村里長的事務補助費大家的方向都一致但是你知道嗎目前只有三個案近乎二讀喔這三個案是分別是傅君祺總召王洪輝委員還有呢蔓玉珍民眾黨的新住民代表"},{"start":19118.288,"end":19120.972,"text":"結果37個提案今天在審查為什麼只有那三個superstar他們可以在上週五的院會幾乎二讀"},{"start":19131.843,"end":19146.362,"text":"市長你知道這個結果會有什麼差別嗎?你知不知道有什麼差別?他們三個人的提案比較特別比較偉大另外37個部分黨派都是滿天星星不足為道是這樣嗎?這個我們尊重你們尊重喔?我跟你們說趁這個機會喔跟大家說啦"},{"start":19149.406,"end":19163.726,"text":"為了今天在上週五近乎二讀只有三個版本很多的我們的提案委員在地方上被民眾質疑為什麼?因為上週二近乎二讀的時候民進黨的提案要在牌路表決沒有機會排"},{"start":19164.847,"end":19186.529,"text":"按照立法院的慣例你要去反對別人提案來支持自己的提案這是天經地義的但是我們不是反對這三個委員對於地方民意代表還有村里長的一個補助費的支持我們的提案都在37案裡面我在這裡也要拜託主席未來這37案出委員會的時候要爭取跟前面那三個案並案審查"},{"start":19187.89,"end":19203.982,"text":"沒有齁,這個案如果通過之後所有的功勞所有整齣的都改成他們三個版本而已就是國民黨兩個版本,台灣民進黨一個版本其他的包括37案當中有很多國民黨的委員的版本通通放在這裡丟包啦"},{"start":19205.122,"end":19230.741,"text":"這個部分不是我們次長可以決定的,也要拜託主席這兩月37個案：總管委員審查是做出互待決議並案跟其他的那三個案並案協商,要求大家悄悄作會大家共同來為我們之前的包括議員、代表、他們的助理、還有包括原住民在內、原鄉的村里長跟非原鄉的村里長他們的一個應該給的資金"},{"start":19232.622,"end":19236.044,"text":"張家俊委員不在林思敏委員不在吳思瑤委員不在"},{"start":19258.669,"end":19264.817,"text":"邱振金委員不在黃仁委員不在邱志偉委員不在劉建國委員"},{"start":19284.997,"end":19313.926,"text":"好,謝謝主席。有請市長吧,還是次長?次長來,有請次長。喂,好。次長,民貸資金條例,如果這次修,有多久?從現在算起,往前推,差不多多久沒有修過了?89年,89年開始施行嘛,到現在24年。就是2000年的時候嘛,對不對?那2000年的時候,我剛好時任地方的市民代表,"},{"start":19314.597,"end":19339.829,"text":"所以今天早上的時候我有特別感謝部長還有感謝召委把這個案排進來讓大家有充分討論然後去把一些問題凸顯出來可想而知在2000年的時候明代資金條例去做這個修正其實是很大幅度的變動那市長知道怎麼變動嗎?針對哪幾個部分有大幅度的變動?委員是講這一次嗎?沒有2000年的時候就是89年嘛"},{"start":19341.112,"end":19348.205,"text":"二千八九年的時候我這一部分是不是我們這個誰可以講的講一下"},{"start":19350.304,"end":19375.671,"text":"8、9年主要是法治化那以前這個各地方的一個規定大概都不一致所以這個明代自己條例把它各地方都一致化主要是這個部分主要這樣而已嗎?不止喔?不止不止那當然那個經費的一個部分有一些調整比如說縣市議員的原來各地方不一致那後來目前是有規定助理補助費8萬元這個部分"},{"start":19376.124,"end":19388.596,"text":"也比當初各縣市在省的時代的部分還高就這樣市議員的部分也有調整你知道鄉村市民代表怎麼調整嗎"},{"start":19391.681,"end":19410.528,"text":"也是把它一致化如果說原有的一致化基本上應該不是叫做大幅調整我講的大幅調整嘛 對不對你知道當時的那一個還沒有修正過後的鄉鎮市民代表的那個研究會是多少嗎?修正完之後又視停多少?"},{"start":19413.357,"end":19415.259,"text":"如果說原有是1後來變成2變成3那是不是變動的弧度很大對不對"},{"start":19425.509,"end":19453.215,"text":"那個時候的鄉鎮市民代表領的是19470塊啦修正完之後變成49470啦那這樣變化大不大?非常大嘛對不對?好那村里長事務會全國統一嘛齁那也是那時候做了相關的這樣調整嘛這都變得很大事我想我要把這個歷史的脈絡再講一次嘛齁然後在最近幾年還沒有修這一次之前啦齁最近幾年我們針對村里長的事務會又有著加5000嘛對不對?好"},{"start":19455.876,"end":19460.347,"text":"這兩次都在民進黨執政的任內嘛那我沒什麼做這些事情"},{"start":19461.601,"end":19487.481,"text":"就像今天內政部提出來包含一般縣市的助理的費用我們要調高這是其一嘛 對不對還有衛民服務會我們要做相關的調高那在在都是在考量現今的一些狀況我想助理基本上為議員包括我們的助理為委員來做事情那其實他真正的目的還是衛民服務嘛"},{"start":19488.601,"end":19504.178,"text":"所以今天我們看到有些不合理的狀況所以我們去做這樣的相關的調整所以我就特別要感謝內政部不過這個調整的弧度好像似乎有蠻大的一些討論空間也有個直轄市的議員的助理是24萬"},{"start":19506.26,"end":19527.892,"text":"內政部的版本是提高到30萬那一般縣市的議員的助理是多少8萬那我們現在把它調高變成14萬對不對原因有是差了3倍嘛24比8嘛就1比3嘛那現在是變成1比2不到啦應該是不到啦齁那你們覺得這樣的調整是正確嗎"},{"start":19530.944,"end":19558.067,"text":"報告委員我想我們做這樣的調整也經過參考其他的因素來設算了包括說我們這個人數的這個變動我們刪除上限規定下限這個大家一起來做這個通販現場是根據什麼樣的變動去做這樣的調整我覺得過去就已經很奇怪不合理的一個狀態了怎麼私家市就是24萬一般縣市就是8萬那現在你們是又根據什麼去調到30萬然後一般縣市是4萬"},{"start":19559.668,"end":19571.515,"text":"一般當然我們會考量到他這個要去併顧的人數這是一個另外就是說這個之下是跟這個地方的這個薪資水準等等這些都會做一個考量"},{"start":19573.12,"end":19588.97,"text":"但是還有一個因素當然也要考慮到這個地方的財政,大概這些因素都會考量財政。過去,難道過去沒有考慮到地方的財政,也一定會有嘛對不對?過去為什麼是1比3,現在為什麼是1比2,為什麼不能再高一點?"},{"start":19590.121,"end":19613.244,"text":"這讓他真正到1比1比2這個時間上比如說幾十年前這個直轄市的這個薪酬水準跟現在我的時間到不是不是好沒關係這個很多戲我們在討論吼那你內政部的修法有一個版本是原住民區啦共有55個啊多有服務員較大啦吼那基於該村里受限於地理環境因素然後服務區你需要耗費更多的交通在內的相關成本"},{"start":19613.765,"end":19623.821,"text":"所以你針對這個原住民地區之鄉鎮及自家市原住民區齁其村里事務會每月再增加百分之十嘛對不對這個是根據什麼"},{"start":19625.229,"end":19652.727,"text":"主要當然是考量到這個原住民區啦因為的確它幅員也比較大交通也比較不便啦也不像說我們這個區域當然交通會比較方便一點另外就是說在山區它這個居住的都比較散居嘛所以你要服務一個人可能他的這個距離就會比較遠一點為什麼只有針對原住民區?像我們一般縣市的像簡單講我講一個古坑鄉啦草嶺村你知道那個幅員有多大嗎?"},{"start":19654.328,"end":19672.923,"text":"在偏遠或邊鄉還是過去有我們內政部去認定的一般的平起鄉鎮其實那些村里長他要照顧的服務員也不亞於原住民區耶這個為什麼沒有納入在參考裡面而且現在的村里長因為有長照所以他們還要辦理什麼長照認知 對不起長照資源認證還有相關的一些授證"},{"start":19680.217,"end":19701.62,"text":"我要表達說你們可以看到這一塊為什麼另外那塊沒有看到因為你如果要做這樣的根據嘛我是提醒你連一般的鄉鎮、湖遠、廣大的、偏遠的你要把它納入在這次的討論中才有道理啦我剛剛是用議員的助理來比喻給你聽那我現在這個也是你內政部自己的提案喔"},{"start":19702.915,"end":19719.198,"text":"那不能只有單純從這一個原住民區去做修正去做思考而已要嘛就全部一次通人只要是輔演廣大參照你們自己的提案的內容比例上都一樣就比照辦理我覺得這樣才有道理"},{"start":19720.902,"end":19744.686,"text":"我想這個有一些非原住民區的部分,有些當然是也屬於比較偏遠,不過這要看每一個地方的區域特性不太一樣。是啊,那你們有看了嗎?你們有去盤點嗎?你們有去調查嗎?我隨便都可以找幾個鄉鎮來對比原住民區,你們現在要給他每日增加百分之十的事務費的這樣的一個比例喔。"},{"start":19746.485,"end":19759.599,"text":"如果要討論到這個可能就是要去比照這個有一些單位會去界定偏遠地區的界定定義有一些比較偏遠可能也跟原住民區是一樣的"},{"start":19760.698,"end":19780.596,"text":"不是不是不是不是對對對我是給市長做一個參考因為時間到了好不好我是覺得這個東西可能你們要這個範圍啦齁一樣的一個一個一個一個一個一個這樣的廣大的胡言的部分這樣的村里長原住民你們給他百分之十的增加似乎會其他你不給他們"},{"start":19781.296,"end":19782.797,"text":"主席有請司長請司長委員好"},{"start":19807.797,"end":19822.374,"text":"剛剛市長在回答有講到我們目前這個對於直轄市縣市議員聘用公費助理有多少年沒調整過24年你知道這24年當中軍公教待遇調整了多少次"},{"start":19825.435,"end":19839.019,"text":"我看到數字是6次勞工基本薪資你知道調整多少次18次可是只有這個地方民意代表助理費用20年來都沒有調整24年沒有調整"},{"start":19844.079,"end":19860.919,"text":"今天我覺得很高興就是終於大家願意去面對這個問題因為我今天跟大家講一件事情過去要去調整誰的那個民意代表的一些助理費用都會有一些雜音但今天很好是因為是立法委員我們立法院草野各黨"},{"start":19862.02,"end":19887.478,"text":"大概都有蠻一致希望能夠調整所以基本上先講一件事情這些是我們看到實際上在地方各個議員他們這麼24年沒有調整助理費之下而業務不斷的加大繁重加上那個物價不斷的調高的各種因素好像這樣其實是有點增加目前地方民代的壓力甚至減少了他們的服務的品質"},{"start":19888.399,"end":19916.931,"text":"所以這個我覺得今天內政部也願意來去這個開始配合我們大家一起來研擬去調整他們的相關的一些金額我覺得是一個好的方向但有一件事情其實我們還認同剛剛劉建國這個委員剛剛講的就是說因為我之前其實有一段時間是在全台徒步環島所以我之前工作台北市議員但因為在全台徒步環島的時候我就有開始認知到一件事情"},{"start":19917.771,"end":19940.011,"text":"台灣的縣市服務員真的是遼闊然後我發現各地方的非直轄市縣市議員他有一些很重要的一些困擾一個很大的辛苦就是在我們過去把直轄市跟非直轄市這個議員的助理的補助只設定為三分之一嘛非直轄市對不對"},{"start":19942.001,"end":19967.083,"text":"這設定其實我會來走實際走一個我覺得其實是蠻不合理的施展你覺得為什麼會覺得不合理你猜猜看為什麼覺得不合理因為最主要是在非直轄市的部分因為畢竟它的這個地理環境不太一樣因為它會非常廣泛那而且地方在服務的時候其實有很多地方先生我這樣考你啦"},{"start":19968.615,"end":19976.202,"text":"非直轄市我舉個例子你知道縣市面積來看前三大這個最大的縣市的面積是哪三個縣市"},{"start":19980.1,"end":20002.611,"text":"花蓮南侯跟台東有山區的都會比較多那你知道齁對那種幅員遼闊的這些行政區域地方的民代就非直轄市的議員他光有一樣東西就很可觀了什麼東西你知道嗎有一樣錢就花得很可觀了混沙洗錢對他也花得很可觀"},{"start":20004.082,"end":20005.342,"text":"上山下海"},{"start":20020.828,"end":20046.729,"text":"直轄市跟非直轄市在過去定為只有三分之一但是當然以人口來講的話直轄市因為人口密集嘛服務的人數來講的話可能會比較多嘛對不對但是你如果考量到說非直轄市他的議員數額也比較少那加上他的服務的那個面積非常遼闊我是蠻認同劉建國委員剛剛講我覺得這三分之一的這個比例設計是不合理的"},{"start":20047.591,"end":20065.644,"text":"二分之一坦白講我都覺得未必合理啦可是你要怎麼去調整我覺得應該要去考量到地方因為事實上如果這些我們地方的縣市議員他如果說今天你在24年不調整你某種程度是變相的來去減少他們服務地方的能量"},{"start":20066.244,"end":20080.297,"text":"而在各個地方來講,其實民代的一個重要性,我到台北市議員是有時候就是幫政府能夠更快速的去探取民意,然後幫人民解決一些政府可能看不到的問題。"},{"start":20081.238,"end":20104.768,"text":"所以這個服務能量是很重要的所以我真的也是拜託內政部這邊能夠從善如流啦就是說第一個整體來講大家經費要增加第二個我覺得比例的合理性應該要把非直轄縣市的這種遼闊的面積跟他的所謂的那個議員的總額數比較少這些因素都考量進去坦白講我覺得二分之一都已經很勉強了啦"},{"start":20106.308,"end":20121.454,"text":"我都不認為是很合理,但是希望內政部這部分可以納入考慮。以上。好,謝謝委員,謝謝。好,謝謝我們羅志強委員的執行,謝謝。那下一位我們李燕秀委員。好,謝謝。謝謝專委,我可不可以請次長。好,請次長。"},{"start":20129.554,"end":20148.36,"text":"市長辛苦了我覺得草也有共識針對這個兩個法案要調整那看起來我們內政部這邊方向也是正面的看待但大家有很多不同的版本怎麼樣取得一個共識但是我一直認為如果因為好不容易20年"},{"start":20149.46,"end":20163.93,"text":"要調好好的調無論是明代的這個助理的費用或者是里長的春節慰問金還有相關其他費用我覺得要好好討論因為下一次我們再有機會討論我不知道是幾十年以後可能我們大家都已經不在這邊"},{"start":20165.531,"end":20181.823,"text":"但是我覺得既然要調我們就好好的面對所有的問題好好的來調整打開我們現在里長的工作繁重剛才結委員已經有講了無論偏鄉光是油錢其實我們中央或地方其實給里長的業務其實從來沒有減少過包括我們打開全國法規資料庫"},{"start":20186.707,"end":20191.25,"text":"打關鍵慶打里長兩個字我們就可以看到跳出119個法規內容扣掉應該廢紙的這個法規裡面也還有七八十筆法規裡面要求里長應該配合的業務無論是長照無論是最近我們在講的社會安全網的議題還有包括掌握地方老人的狀況包括類似像地震過後颱風之後我們第一線要去評估災害損失"},{"start":20216.209,"end":20233.252,"text":"雖然公務人員那個都是長官來但是第一線要掌握地方狀況我想次長你非常清楚都是找里長社會安全網要去抓這些脆弱家庭瞭解地方的狀況所以我們現在給里長的所謂的事務補助費也好我們現在當然多給一個春節慰問金但是是不是足以"},{"start":20244.734,"end":20255.121,"text":"所以代表就是說他的付出跟他的他所得到的一些肯定我覺得是不是足夠啦我覺得我們應該朝向這個層面去思考去看待我們今天調整這樣子的法案當然我們都知道城鄉差距包括六都的狀況"},{"start":20263.246,"end":20288.407,"text":"其實地方財源不宜所以你剛才講到說不能加太多加太多的話地方財源會有問題但是我覺得我們今天回過這個法案來去看的話我覺得就是應該就事論事到底應該怎麼去調整他是一個他的工作我們應該給予他的無論是春節慰問金還有沒有額外的比如說郵費其他的我們應該討論所以我個人認為這一筆費用無論我們要怎麼調整"},{"start":20292.29,"end":20292.41,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":20310.633,"end":20310.773,"text":"議員．助理費用"},{"start":20327.747,"end":20342.834,"text":"議員的助理我當過當了20幾年民意代表我有20年的時間都是當市議員所以我相信在立法院很多很多立委前身都是前面那份工作都是市議員所以助理的費用包括在自治條例裡面我們"},{"start":20343.234,"end":20343.254,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":20365.1,"end":20365.26,"text":"委員會委員會"},{"start":20380.896,"end":20393.223,"text":"就是他們常常工作的時間非常長配合地方的需求配合地方發生狀況助理常常在第一線處理所以我覺得無論是加班費包括職災職業災害的補償等等職業災害的準備等等還有資遣費等等"},{"start":20396.104,"end":20396.124,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":20416.463,"end":20436.802,"text":"法案中當中我的一些建議也希望次長可以去做這方面的思考這一次我們不好好處理這些議題下次再處理可能又是20年12年之後所以我覺得我們應該趁這一次把所有朝野黨派的版本跟意見我們希望朝委這邊有機會跟次長這邊跟內政部做更完整的考量跟考慮"},{"start":20438.103,"end":20449.586,"text":"謝謝委員,我想委員剛剛指教都非常的正確啦吼那基本上我們也都從這方面來在著述這一次的修法重點也都包括剛剛委員指教謝謝,謝謝市長好謝謝我們李恩秀委員的資訊那下一位曾政權"},{"start":20456.58,"end":20476.19,"text":"鄭振全委員不在 傅坤祺委員不在賴世保委員不在 蔡奕宜委員不在 林子英委員不在 王鴻薇委員不在"},{"start":20486.826,"end":20508.824,"text":"那登記發言的委員除不在場之外﹖其已經與發言完畢﹖審打結束那委員﹖黃珊珊﹖鍾嘉斌﹖邱振金﹖邱志偉﹖張嘉靖﹖黃仁﹖所提書面執行列入記錄﹖刊登公報"},{"start":20510.316,"end":20531.509,"text":"事面執行及未答覆部分請相關單位以一週內以事面答覆並互資本會報告委員會現在進行法院審查請先讀討論事項所有的版本及條文"},{"start":20534.083,"end":20559.779,"text":"修正動議互待結議請一併先讀先讀完畢後再進行協商第三條委員徐欣盈等19人提案第一項第6款第9款後段增訂及主管植物加擠文字區域通線型條文第5條委員陳盈等17人提案第三項後段增訂原住民的地方民意代表"},{"start":20561.351,"end":20585.303,"text":"支為民服務費最高為1.5倍其餘同線型條文委員陳素月等22人提案修正副表請參閱書面第6條委員楊瓊英等20人提案第一項同線型條文第二項修正為持霞市議會縣市議會應每年編列每一議員以低數額之助理補助費但公費助理每人每月之領金額最多不得超過新台幣8萬元縣市議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣8萬元"},{"start":20586.383,"end":20610.184,"text":"公費助理適用勞動基準法之規定其加班費勞工保險費全民健康保險費勞工退休金之雇主負擔部分勞工職業災害保險費由議會編列預算編列經費支應之並得比照均公教人員年終工作獎金佐給春節慰勞金增訂第三項前項薪資補助費用總額及前項一勞動基準法所規定之相關費用總額議會得比照均公教人員待遇調整比例調整之"},{"start":20610.945,"end":20628.443,"text":"委員黃婕等22人提案。第6條指向市議會議員及縣市議會議員的拼用公費助理人數由各議會自定與議員同進退其工作內容由議員與公費助理商定之。前線公費助理補助費用總額指向市議會議員每人每月新台幣24萬元但公費助理人數未超過二人者"},{"start":20629.063,"end":20653.605,"text":"每人每月支領金額﹖最多不得超過新台幣8萬元﹖新市議會議員每人每月新台幣8萬元﹖補助費用總額議會得綜合考量消費者物價指數漲幅﹖軍公教員工單一條幅及地方財政狀況調整公路助理一期其依法由僱主負擔至加班費勞工保險費全民健康保險費及勞工退休金等費用由議會編列經費支應之並得比照軍公教員員年終工作獎金卓給春節慰勞金"},{"start":20655.146,"end":20674.105,"text":"委員吳珮儀等20人委員呂玉玲等19人提案第6條指向市議會議員每人拼用公費助理至少6人縣市議會議員每人拼用公費助理至少2人公費助理均與議員同進退請向公費助理薪資補助費用總額指向市議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣36萬元縣市議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣16萬元"},{"start":20675.186,"end":20698.392,"text":"其中聘用部分時間工作供費助理之費用數額不得超過助理費用總額二分之一供費助理適用勞動基準法規定其勞工保險費全民健康保險費及勞工退休金支雇主負擔部分均由議會編列經費支應支加班費資遣費及職業災害補償等補助費用總額直下市議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣6萬元縣市議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣2萬元"},{"start":20699.372,"end":20714.001,"text":"並得比照軍公教人員年終工作獎金捉給春節慰勞金第二項新制補助費用總容及錢下降頒費此前配給職業災難補償等補助費用總容指向市縣市議會得比照軍公教人員待遇調整比例調整支委員鄭天才等19人提案"},{"start":20714.441,"end":20715.081,"text":"修正草案等37案"},{"start":20730.086,"end":20756.92,"text":"第三項為第二項公費助理補助費總額一會因比照軍公教委員待遇調整比例調整之第四項同委員吳佩儀等20人提案第三項委員羅志強等25人提案第一項同委員鄭天才等19人提案第一項第二項修正為先是議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣20萬元第三項後段修正為先是議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣4萬元其餘同委員吳佩儀等20人提案委員盧美琳等18人提案"},{"start":20757.62,"end":20787.26,"text":"第一項公費助理人數分別修正為至少4人及至少2人第二項金額分別修正為36萬元10萬元及16萬元後段並增訂及加班費勞工保險費全民健康保險費勞工退休經濟雇主負擔部分等文字增訂第三項前項議員公費助理薪資補助費用總額及加班費勞工保險費全民健康保險費勞工退休經濟雇主負擔部分此項是縣市議會的比較均公交人員待遇調整比例調整之其餘同現行條文"},{"start":20788.661,"end":20804.101,"text":"委員吳思耀等17議員提案．致詳市議會縣市議會得邊緣醫院助理補助費．補助各議員聘用助理．助理補助費總額致詳市議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣30萬元．縣市議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣20萬元．但全國公務人員"},{"start":20804.682,"end":20820.818,"text":"各種加緊、年度通案調整、使用比照期通案條幅調整。調整後助理補助費總額及施行歷期由內政部公告之。以前線助理補助費偏用之助理之下,市議會議員女人應至少偏用6人,縣市議會議員女人應至少偏用4人均與議員同進退。"},{"start":20822.179,"end":20843.233,"text":"前向助理施用勞動基準法之規定其相關費用由議會編列經費支應之助理加班費不休假加班費資遣費及職債補償費等費用不得超過第一項規定總額20%助理並得比照軍公教人員年終工作獎金走給春節慰勞金議會應就第一項助理補助費總額及前向助理施用勞動基準法相關費用之支出請行建立內部控制制度"},{"start":20844.133,"end":20872.26,"text":"委員李博毅等17人提案。第一項公費助理人數分別修正為6人至10人及2人至6人其餘同現行條文第一項。信用條文第二項後段已列第4項並修正為公費助理適用勞動基準法之規定其包含加班費勞工保險費全民健康保險費雇主負擔部分及勞工退休金雇主提撥等相關費用由應會另編列經費指引之不列入第二項補助費用之計算並得比照軍工教育員年終工作獎金佐給春節慰勞金"},{"start":20873.26,"end":20888.509,"text":"增訂第3項第5項分別為第一項公費助理得偏用部分公使人員其人數薪資不得超過公費助理總人數補助費用之半數前項加班費支給指向市議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣5萬元縣市議會議員每人不得超過新台幣2萬元"},{"start":20889.71,"end":20905.858,"text":"委員徐曉欣等28人提案．第1項．第4項同委員吳佩儀等20人提案．這第1項．第4項．第2項同委員鄭天才等19人提案．第4項．第2項．前項公費助理薪資補助費用總額一勞動基準法所規定之相關費用均由指辖事及先知議會編列予算指引之"},{"start":20906.278,"end":20924.383,"text":"其中聘用部分是實踐工作供費助理致費用數額不得超過補助費用總額二分之一第5項為直向市議會及縣市議會以每年編列預算補助供費助理實施健康檢查及文康活動費用其對象項目方法標準及其他應徵型事項由議會令定制自中華民國全年全月全日施行"},{"start":20925.083,"end":20951.236,"text":"委員莊玉雄等18人提案第一項同委員吳佩儀等20人提案第一項第二項中段維持信息條文之但公費助理名人每月支領金額最多不得超過清台幣8萬元文字其餘同委員吳佩儀等20人提案之第二項增訂第三項第四項分別為公費助理適用勞動基準法之規定其由僱主負擔之勞工保險費全民健康保險費勞工職業災害保險費及勞工退休金由議會編列清費之因之並得比照顧軍公教人員凝重工作獎金酌給春節慰勞金"},{"start":20952.897,"end":20973.839,"text":"第二項公費助力補助費用總額及錢箱費用之瑕疵性限制議會的比照軍公教人員待遇條幅及地方財政狀況調整之委員林思明等26人提案第一項同委員羅美玲等18人提案之第一項第二項金額分別修正為24萬元12萬元後代修正為不得超過補助費用總額三分之一其餘同委員吳佩等20人提案之第二項"},{"start":20974.64,"end":20991.954,"text":"增訂第三項指向市議會議員及縣市議會議員以按月將公費助理補助費用支領用助理姓名及分別支領之數據報議會備查。新型條文第二項互單以列第四項並增訂加班費勞工保險費全民健康保險費及勞工退休金顧主負擔部分文字。"},{"start":20992.874,"end":21018.791,"text":"委員委員會等17人提案第一項修正為先是議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣12萬元第二項聘用助理人數分別修正為4人及2人其餘同委員吳佩儀等20人提案之第一項第二項曾定第三項第四項前項助理適用勞動基準法之規定其勞工保險費全民健康保險費勞工退休準備金加班費不休假加班費慈善費及職災補償費等關於法定應由雇主負擔費用由議會"},{"start":21019.631,"end":21045.716,"text":"不超過第1項規定總額20%內編列預算支援支﹑並得以索領補助費支額度比照軍公教人員年中工作獎金卓給春節慰勞金。議會應就各委員關於第1項及第2項助理補助費總額與分配情形﹑助理聘用關係及第3項阻力各項費用支支援情形及零零不控制制度。委員盧修一等19人提案。第1項同委員盧美玲提案第1項。第2、3、4項同委員盧佩一等20人提案之第2、3、4項。"},{"start":21047.316,"end":21072.65,"text":"委員參議19人提案第一項二人至四人修正為一定人數第二項前段修正為職下市議會、縣市議會以免於編列與議員以低數額之公費助理費及其辦公事務預算相關費用後增訂其加班費、勞工保險費、全民健康保險費、勞工退休金之雇主負擔部分、勞工職業災害保險等文字其與同縣型條文之第一二項增訂第三項前項公費助理費總額"},{"start":21074.231,"end":21089.177,"text":"議會得綜合考量社會薪資成長比例與軍公教員工待遇條幅及地方財政狀況調整委員范雲等17人提案,第一項同委員盧敏玲等18案提案之第一項第二項金額分別修正為30萬元,12萬元,其餘同委員林思敏等提案之第二項"},{"start":21090.598,"end":21107.854,"text":"信息條文第二項後段以列第三項並增訂包含加班費勞工保險費全民健康保險費勞工退休金支雇主負擔部分勞工職業災害保險費文字增訂第四項補助費用總額得由議會總統考量消費者物價指數漲幅軍公教員工待遇條幅及地方財政狀況調整"},{"start":21109.415,"end":21130.925,"text":"委員黃秀芳等19人提案,第一項同委員吳佩儀等20人提案至第1項,第二項同委員盧美玲等18人提案至第2項,第三項同委員盧美玲等18人提案至第3項,並著作文字修正。委員鍾嘉斌等27人提案,第一項第二項修正為,此下市議會議員及縣市議會議員每人得聘用公費助理至少4人,公費助理均與議員同進退。"},{"start":21132.165,"end":21154.504,"text":"前向公費助理補助費用總額每人每月不得超過新台幣24萬元其中聘用部分時間工作公費助理之費用數額不得超過補助費用總額二分之一。憲警條文第二項後段一列第三項委員陳穎等17人提案修正為直轄市議會議員與縣市議會議員得聘用公費助理公費助理均與議員同進隊聘用人數由議會定之"},{"start":21155.044,"end":21179.298,"text":"前項公費助理補助費用總額及依照《勞動期準法》相關費用均由議會編列預算支援制並得比照軍公教人員年終工作獎金酌給春節慰勞金委員武麗華等17人提案第一項同性情條文第二項修正為直下市議會新市議會應每年編列每億元抵抵數額之公費助理費直下市議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣32萬元現市議員每人每月不得超過新台幣16萬元"},{"start":21180.459,"end":21204.165,"text":"並得於中央主計機關發布之消費者物價指數﹐累計成長率達政府51%﹐該成長率調整之。但工業助理每人每月支援金額不得超回現台幣8萬元﹐工費助理適用勞動基準法之規定﹐其加班費﹐勞工保險費﹐全民健康保險費﹐勞工退休金之雇主負擔部分﹐勞工職業災害保險費﹐由議會編列經費支應之﹐並得比照軍公教委員員出工作獎金﹐作給春節慰勞金﹐"},{"start":21205.285,"end":21233.901,"text":"委員稱溯月等21人提案第一項第三項同委員林思敏等提案之第一項第三項第二項金額分別修正為30萬元12萬元其餘同委員林思敏等提案之第二項參考第4項第二項公費助理費總額議會應考量社會薪資成長比例消費者物價指數及軍工教育員工待遇條幅一併調整之其後能兩年調整一次由議會參考中央主計機關發布之最近一年消費者物價指數較前次調整之前一年消費者物價指數成長率"},{"start":21234.321,"end":21253.83,"text":"或消費者物價指數累計成長率達5%及公告調整值但成長率為0或複數時不予調整委員徐欣穎等19人提案第二項縣市議會議員委員每月不得超過新產品8萬元修正為15萬元其餘同縣刑條文委員洪生翰等16人提案同委員蔡玉等19人提案"},{"start":21254.81,"end":21279.246,"text":"委員李燕秀等20人提案。第6條直轄市議會議員每人得聘用公費助理至少6人。縣市議會議員每人得聘用公費助理至少2人。公費助理均與議員同進退,並優先禁用身心障礙者及中高齡者。前章公費助理薪資補助費用總額直轄市議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣36萬元加班費自遣費及職業災害補償等補助費用總額每人每月不得超過新台幣6萬元"},{"start":21280.246,"end":21306.798,"text":"像是議會議員、薪資補助費用總額每人每月不得超過新台幣16萬元加班費、資遣費及職業災害補償等補助費用總額每人每月不得超過新台幣2萬元聘用部分時間工作之公費助理﹐該費用數額不得超過薪資補助費用總額二分之一公費助理﹐適用勞動基準法之規定﹐其勞工保險費均用增加保險費及雇主為勞工負擔提繳至退休金部分由議會編列經費支援之並得比照軍公教人員年終工作獎金"},{"start":21308.158,"end":21325.117,"text":"左給村里長事務補助費用總額加班費之前非其職業災害補償等補助費用總額,亦會得考量基本薪資成長比例,均公教人員單一調整比例及地方財政狀況狀況考量後調整。委員黃建斌等17年提案,第二項金額分別修正為36萬元及12萬元,其餘同委員吳珮儀等20年提案。"},{"start":21328.42,"end":21347.655,"text":"委員．建國等16人提案。第1項修正為先是議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣26萬元。第2項修正為以前向助理補助費用支助理致殺。先是議會議員每人得費用6人至8人。先是議會議員每人得費用5人至7人。均與議員同進退,其餘同委員無配意等20人提案。"},{"start":21348.295,"end":21375.625,"text":"委員鄭正琴等18人提案第二項金額分別修正為36萬元及12萬元其餘同委員林思敏等26人提案委員陳培余等21人提案第1項同委員盧美林等18人提案之第1項第二項金額分別修正為36萬元及16萬元其餘同先進條文第二項前段第二項後段已列第3項增訂第4項第二項供費助理補助費用總額及前項費用之下事項是議會的綜合考量均公證人員待遇條"},{"start":21376.945,"end":21403.791,"text":"條幅及地方財政狀況條整之。委員王毓民等16人提案。第二項金額分別修正為36萬元及12萬元。第三項一列第二項後段區域統委員黃建斌等17人提案。第7條委員鄭天才等19人提案。第一項同性性條文第一項第二項後段修正為支應其健康檢查費保險費春節慰問金及為民服務費其標準比照鄉鎮市民代表會代表其同性性條文第二項"},{"start":21404.691,"end":21422.101,"text":"第三項修正為中央主管及關於辦理村里長團體保險及每一倍保險人之保險金額為新台幣1200萬元及範圍繳費方式其成及附基準權利與義務辦理方式及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之信心條文第四項刪除"},{"start":21422.961,"end":21447.392,"text":"委員高經宋梅等29人提案第一項第4項第5項同性情條文之第一三四項第二項修正為村里長因職務關係因而鄉鎮市區公所分別編列下列之預算一保險費二健康檢查費三春節慰勞金增訂第三項前項健康檢查費及標準均比照地方民意代表前項春節慰勞金及標準均比照軍公教人員年終工作獎金佐給"},{"start":21449.185,"end":21467.045,"text":"徵定第6項,第一項之村里長事務補助費而度至中華民國114年,其每4年調整一次由中央主管機關參照中央主計機關發布之最近一年消費者物價指數,較前次調整之前一年消費者物價指數成長率高高調整之,但成長率為零或負數時不予調整"},{"start":21468.206,"end":21483.645,"text":"委員．新一等19人提案．第1項後段增訂但願駐民族地區之村里每月新台幣5萬5千元．第2項增訂村級務務金儲物考察費等文字．第3項第4項之保險金額提高為新台幣1千萬元以上．其餘通信息條文"},{"start":21484.366,"end":21500.995,"text":"委員徐宇珍等16人提案。第二項修正為村里長事務關心應由鄉鎮市區公所的分別編列預算支援其保險費、健康檢查費、充結衛生金及衛生服務費及標準均比照地方民意代表其如同信息條文"},{"start":21502.176,"end":21522.422,"text":"委員稱等17人提案第二項同委員需徵等16人提案第二項並逐座完之修正增訂第5項第二項村里長春節慰勞金每人每年不得超過1.5個月事務補助費外面服務費每人每月不得超過新台幣3000元能住民族地區之村里長每人每月不得超過新台幣4500元其餘通信息條文"},{"start":21525.043,"end":21552.24,"text":"委員齊銘等18人提案第一項後段增訂年中75000元為春節慰勞金區域投信金條文委員王美惠等21人提案第一項後段增訂春節慰勞金新台幣75000元增訂第二項牆上事務補助費與春節慰勞金因每次年調整一次由中央主管機關參照中央主計機關發布之最新一年消費者物價指數較前次調整之前一年消費者物價指數成長月公告調整之"},{"start":21552.7,"end":21562.635,"text":"但成長率為零或複數時不予調整。現行條文第234項下次定義委員黃建斌等17人提案同委員高金素梅等29人提案"},{"start":21563.84,"end":21584.188,"text":"增訂第7條之一委員陳昌明等18人提案。第7條之一地方民意代表計村里長任職滿20年且年滿65歲退職應發給退職金其認定標準計算方式與生理辦法由中央主管機關訂定。委員黃建豪等17人提案。山竹前端地方民意代表集等文字其餘同委員陳昌明等18人提案。"},{"start":21586.38,"end":21605.28,"text":"第8條委員高金素梅等22人提案第一項同性型條文增訂第234項除第一項之規定外應編列預算補助應區域服務員遼闊地理環境交通狀況氣候條件等因素而衍生之費用及實施辦法標準及其他應遵行之事項由中央主管機關令定之"},{"start":21605.8,"end":21626.729,"text":"前項補助之額度之中華民國114年起每2年調整一次由中央主管機關參照中央主計機關發布之最近一年消費者物價指數較前次調整之其一年消費者物價指數成長率公告調整之但成長率為零或複數時不予調整第二項是補助費用其經費由中央主管機關年度編列預算補助地方政府之一之"},{"start":21627.569,"end":21646.786,"text":"第9條委員鄭天才等19人提案後段增訂第7條第三項之經費由中央主管機關按年度編列預算支援之其與同線型條文委員盧憲英等19人提案第一項同線型條文增訂第二項本條例第7條第二項春節運營經期出國考察費增年度經費由中央主管機關編列預算補助之"},{"start":21648.507,"end":21661.005,"text":"第10條委員鄭天才等19人提案增訂第二項本條例第6條第7條第三項及第4項之規定自中華民國全年全月全日起施行其餘頭現行條文修正動議一"},{"start":21663.929,"end":21684.643,"text":"第7條增加第三項及第4項第一項春節慰問金系屬政府之贈予以所得稅法第4條第一項第17款規定可免納所得稅第一項春節慰問金其經費由中央主管機關年度編列預算補助地方政府致應之經同委員王美惠等20人提案"},{"start":21686.604,"end":21715.349,"text":"提案人為張志倫等3人。修正動議2第6條此下是議會議員每人聘用公費助理至少6人。現是議會議員每人聘用公費助理至少4人。公費助理經與議員同進退。前上公費助理費用總額此下是議會議員每人每月新台幣30萬元。現是議會議員每人每月新台幣18萬元。但全國公務員由各種加緊年度通案調整時應按通案條幅調整調整後製費用總額及施行日期有業政部公告之"},{"start":21715.849,"end":21741.264,"text":"公費助理費用及其一勞動基準法所規定之相關費用均為因會編列預算支援之並得比照軍公教人員年終工作獎金佐給春節慰勞金第7條增訂第5項村里長由鄉鎮市居公所參照軍公教人員年終工作獎金編列預算法給春節慰勞金其數額以新台幣5萬元為基準計算之其餘同現行條文"},{"start":21743.177,"end":21759.719,"text":"第10條後段增加113年全月全日修正至第6條及第7條自114年1月1日施行外等文字其餘同性型條文提案人委員蘇巧慧等3人"},{"start":21763.03,"end":21790.572,"text":"修正動議3第6條 持下市議會、縣市議會的編列議員助理補助費補助各議員聘用助理 助理補助費總額 持下市議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣30萬元 縣市議會議員每人每月不得超過新台幣14萬元 並依予全國公務人員各種家計程度通案調整時 比照其通案調整幅度調整 調整後之助理補助費總額及實施日期援助不公告之 以傾向助理補助費補助聘用之助理"},{"start":21791.272,"end":21808.866,"text":"指查是議會議員每人要至少騙人7人像是議會議員每人要至少騙人3人均與議員同進退強項助理適用勞動基準法之規定其勞工保險費全民健康保險費勞工退休準備金加班費不休假加班費資遣費及職業災害補償等依法令應由雇主負擔"},{"start":21810.087,"end":21830.34,"text":"費用部分由議會於不超過第一項規定總額20%內編列預算支援之並得以索領補助費之額度﹐比照軍工交援、農中工作獎金逐給春節慰勞金。議會應就各議員有關第一項、第二項助理補助費總額與分配請行助理偏要關係及第三項所列各項費用之支援請行經理內部控制制度。"},{"start":21836.226,"end":21852.851,"text":"第7條 第一項後段增訂 於原住民族地區之村里每月再增加10%並應由全國公務人員各種加緊年度通案調整時比照其通案調整、幅度調整、調整後之事務補助費總額及實施日期由內政部公告之"},{"start":21855.543,"end":21884.754,"text":"增訂第5項村里長由鄉鎮市區公所參照軍公教育委員年終工作獎金發給規定編列預算發給春節未落金其數額以新台幣五萬元為基準計算之其餘同現行條文第10條後段增訂一百十後段修正為一百十一年五月四日修正公布條文自一百十一年十二月二十五日施行一百十三年圈月圈日修正之條文自一百十四年一月一日施行"},{"start":21886.286,"end":21895.972,"text":"其餘同線型條文令修正第5條附表提案人委員吳啟明等6人修正動議4"},{"start":21898.328,"end":21925.07,"text":"第7條第一項後段增定與原住民族地區之村里每月再增加10%增定第5項村里長由縣市鄉鎮市區公所參照軍公教育員年中工作獎金發給規定並列預算發給春節慰勞金其數額以新台幣五萬元為基準計算之其餘通現行條文第10條後段修正同委員務其名等所提修正動議提案人王美惠等4人"},{"start":21927.409,"end":21953.039,"text":"修正動議五第三條第一項第九款後段增訂及主管加擠等文字其餘同線性條文第七條第一項後段增訂於偏遠地區鄉鎮市區超高齡鄉鎮市區及原住民族地區之村里每月再增加百分之十增訂第五項村里長由鄉鎮市區公所參照軍工教育人員中工作獎金發給"},{"start":21954.26,"end":21964.2,"text":"規定編列預算方有穿截未落經其數額以現在比5萬元為基準計算之其餘通信請條文提案人委員王美惠等4人修正動議6"},{"start":21966.499,"end":21982.6,"text":"第6條同委員黃建斌等17議員提案並著作文字修正第7條第一項後段增訂單元住民族地區之村里每月新台幣5萬5千元增訂第二項前項事務補助費於中央處計機"},{"start":21985.123,"end":22011.303,"text":"關發布之消費者物價指數累計成長率達增負20%應予調整其調整比率由內政部考量國家經濟環境政府財政定制或至少每2年應予檢討原第二項已列第三項後段修改修正為支應其保險費應並由中央編列預算補助支應其健康檢查費春節慰問及每年一次出國考察費及為民服務費其標準均比照地方民意代表"},{"start":22012.744,"end":22022.374,"text":"現行條案第三四項一列第四五項徵定第七條之一同委員黃建豪等17年提案並著作文字修正"},{"start":22023.396,"end":22043.368,"text":"第9條後端增訂第7條第二項之調整比率差額及第7條第三項春節未溫金每年一次出國考察費及為民服務費其經費的中央主管機關按年度編列預算補助地方政府致應之其餘同線型條文提案人委員牛許廷等4人"},{"start":22045.896,"end":22070.909,"text":"修正動議7 第6條 直下市議會縣市議會的編列議員助理補助費補助各議員聘用助理 前項公費助理補助費用總額起 直下市議會議員每人每一步的超過新台幣30萬元 縣市議會議員每人每一步的超過新台幣16萬元 兵役與全國公務員員各種家籍年度通案調整時 比照幅度調整調整後至總額及實施日期內政部公告之 前項助理補助"},{"start":22071.409,"end":22094.258,"text":"被補助之偏要助理之下是議會委員每人至少偏要6人,現是議會委員每人至少偏要2人,均與一員同進退。強項助理施用《勞動基準法》之規定其勞工保險內全面健康保險費、勞工退休準備金加班費、自遣費及職業災害補償等依法列案的雇主負擔費用部分由議會編列經費支援之,並得比照軍工教人員年終工作獎金酌給春節慰勞金。"},{"start":22095.718,"end":22125.007,"text":"第7條增訂第5項村里長由鄉鎮市區公所參照軍用匠人民中工作獎金發給規定編列預算發給村級未勞金其數額以地下所列費用為基準計算其餘同性性條文提案人委員丁學忠等3人修正動議8第6條第二項後段增加並因於全國公務員各種加緊年度通案調整時比照期通案調整幅度調整調整後製助理補助費總額及實施日期內政部公告之"},{"start":22126.383,"end":22154.68,"text":"增訂第6項一會應就各議員有關第二項第三項助理補助費總額與分配情形助理偏用關係及第4項所列各項費用之指引情形建立內部控制制度其餘同委員李伯義等17人提案提案人委員李伯義等4人修正動議9第6條第一項增加鄉鎮市及直轄市原住民區等文字並修正金額為"},{"start":22157.033,"end":22182.708,"text":"鄉鎮市及直轄市原住民代表會﹐代表每人每月不得超過新台幣6萬元第二項﹐拼用人數修正為6人及3人﹐並增加鄉鎮市及直轄市原住民區代表會﹐代表應至少拼用2人﹐居委員或代表同進退第4項﹐增加代表會及代表等文字﹐其餘同委員王美惠等17人提案"},{"start":22185.526,"end":22205.48,"text":"第7條同委員王美惠等所提修正動議4提案人委員王美惠等4人修正動議時第5條修正副表其餘同線型條文提案人委員王美惠等5人附帶決議"},{"start":22208.368,"end":22228,"text":"地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例部分條文修正草案完成修法施行後﹐各地方政府因此所增加之人事支出﹐以本條例第9條規定由地方自治團體編列預算辦理之﹐修法內容雖屬落實民意政治地方自治所必要﹐但議事必更使地方財政捉襟見肘﹐"},{"start":22229.141,"end":22229.281,"text":"宣讀完畢"},{"start":22259.342,"end":22260.083,"text":"還有還有修正動議11第5條"},{"start":22281.212,"end":22298.761,"text":"增訂第3項第一項交通補助費只因服務區域幅員遼闊地理環境交通狀況氣候條件而衍生之費用交通補助費之實施辦法標準及其他應遵行之事項由中央主管機關令定之"},{"start":22299.401,"end":22321.043,"text":"交通補助費制額度至中華民國114年期每二年調整一次由中央主管機關參照中央主計機關發布至最近一年消費者物價指數較前次調整至前一年消費者物價指數成長率公告調整至但成長率為0或負數時不予調整交通補助費及經費由中央主管機關編列預算補助地方政府支應之"},{"start":22324.195,"end":22351.95,"text":"第6條第二項後段增訂但因為全國公務人員各種加緊年度通案調整時比照期通案調整幅度調整調整後之助理補助費總額及實施日期由內政部公告之第7條第一項後段增加於原住民族地區之村里每月增加10%"},{"start":22354.963,"end":22374.41,"text":"第二項修正為村里長因職務關係應由鄉鎮市區公所分別編列下列預算一保險費二健康檢查費三春節慰勞金第三項前項健康檢查費及標準均比照地方民意代表前項春節慰勞金及標準均比照軍公教員年終工作獎金佐給這個是"},{"start":22388.279,"end":22394.712,"text":"第5項後段增加原住民族地區之數而以新台幣5萬5千元為基準計算之"},{"start":22396.013,"end":22424.092,"text":"除第一項事務補助費外因編列預算補助因區域復原遼闊地理環境交通狀況氣候條件等因素而衍生之交通補助費其實是辦法標準及其他應徵性之事項由中央主管機關另定之事務補助費及交通補助費自中華民國114年起每二年調整一次由中央主管機關參照中央主計機關發布之最近一年消費者物價指數照前次調整之前一年消費者物價指數成長率公告調整之但成長率為零或複數時不予調整"},{"start":22425.353,"end":22438.862,"text":"交通補助費支費用及經費由中央主管機關編列日程補助地方政府支援支提案委員委員高金素美等3人宣讀完畢"},{"start":22442.162,"end":22460.389,"text":"好各位委員現在我們進行主條討論我們先從第三條的條文我們委員習新穎委員所提案的是不是請我們習委員來說明一下好不好我們現在討論你所提案的第三條"},{"start":22467.844,"end":22478.055,"text":"本席在第三條特別就提出就是對於這個民意代表我們能夠增加他是能夠有主管加級那因為"},{"start":22480.239,"end":22503.734,"text":"我們不管是直轄市或者是立委我們看到都是有比照這個部會像立委就是比照部會首長那所以我們希望縣市議員還有鄉鎮市民代表他們也能夠有主管加級所以特別針對這個部分本席提這個修正的這個意見"},{"start":22514.694,"end":22519.536,"text":"我的意思是立法委員的待遇他是比照中央部會首長"},{"start":22520.897,"end":22534.472,"text":"對,他的待遇比照中央部會,但是現在縣市議員他並沒有跟縣市政府的一級主管同等所以我加了這個主管家級他的薪資就可以提升上來我的意思是這樣,對謝謝"},{"start":22537.488,"end":22559.629,"text":"來 我們各位委員 針對我們徐委員所提出的第3條有沒有意見好來 請內政部說明一下吧因為我們的印象 直轄市議員跟直轄市的局處長的待遇是一樣的徐委員有這一個問題 是不是請內政部說明一下他這個第6"},{"start":22561.391,"end":22583.885,"text":"六條裡面專業加級及主管加級這個內容內政部的意見是怎樣好的謝謝我們李博弈等一下先讓委員他們充分來發言然後我再請內政部部長統一來回答好不好來還有沒有委員有意見好我們劉建國委員好謝謝"},{"start":22585.357,"end":22607.674,"text":"我想徐委員還是林委員應該我們針對這件事情是我們現在講鄉鎮市民代表民意代表是我們全部中央地方的統稱那這次主要要修的是我們的自家縣市自家市跟一般縣市的議員的助理會主要是這樣但是我們對鄉鎮市民代表我們並沒有去處理到"},{"start":22609.302,"end":22627.622,"text":"我們為什麼要去處理鄉鎮市民代表因為今天我想一般縣市的議員跟自家市的議員他們的這個研究會基本上會隨著跟鄉鎮市民代表的研究會都一樣跟我們的這個公文文條性的過程內一併去做調整"},{"start":22628.629,"end":22649.055,"text":"好,那我們這次只有處理到議員的助理費用但是對鄉鎮市民代表是沒有做任何的處理所以我們才想說是不是給他們一個比照縣市議會的議長鄉鎮市民代表會的主席、副主席一樣給他們一個主管加級"},{"start":22650.509,"end":22665.105,"text":"意思是這樣不然你沒有從研究會裡面的法條去做任何的調整情況之下我們這次要去修可能會有困難那我們有計算過應該是這樣應該是多增加了主管加幾次馬上次長就可以達戶應該是多7000多塊"},{"start":22668.808,"end":22683.216,"text":"我要跟各位報告說以前的鄉鎮市民代表跟現在鄉鎮市民代表他們只領取這個研究會這研究會我記得在2000年剛剛淳勳次長的時候2000年的時候是19470後來後來2000年修正完之後變成49470到現在為止可能來到6萬多如果再加一個7000多塊應該是7萬多"},{"start":22696.015,"end":22702.527,"text":"這是我們對鄉鎮市民代表期待有這樣的一個修正啦好的好謝謝好歡迎"},{"start":22705.822,"end":22705.842,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":22735.422,"end":22735.562,"text":"各位委員"},{"start":22754.656,"end":22781.665,"text":"各位委員還沒意見沒意見我請內政部部長內政部次長來回答一併回答好謝謝好 謝謝委員我想委員剛剛指教這個主管加息的部分第三條的部分那我剛剛有特別也徐委員有特別有提過那我講說當初是因為考量到神戶那時代那個分別不過剛剛委員講的也沒有錯以現在我們反過來看那其實這個機制應該是在一樣的"},{"start":22784.349,"end":22804.33,"text":"那我有跟各位報告一下如果是增加了這個主管加級比照一級主管的話縣市議員的部分那大概會增加大概這個個人一個人大概增加一萬九千多塊大概主管加級那整個縣市議會支出會增加一億兩千多萬將近一億三千萬"},{"start":22805.083,"end":22824.924,"text":"那相次市民代表的部分會增加主管價值個人的話一個人會增加7520那整個這個代表會每年增加會增加一億七千多萬大概是這一個數字那這一個如果是各位我想各位委員如果大家有這個共識我們也尊重大概這樣謝謝"},{"start":22830.533,"end":22840.219,"text":"主席你所講的鄉鎮市代表增加主管階級是以一個縣市來講不是一個鄉鎮喔以整個來講鄉鎮市民代表總共有2139人全國我講全國的數字我講全國的數字還是全國一年一年"},{"start":22854.113,"end":22874.92,"text":"所以全國一年鄉鎮市代表如果增加專業家旗一頁7000多那我們徐信義委員的版本還有包括縣市議會議員如果再加進去的話再增加一億三千萬所以兩個加起來會有兩億九千萬大概三億左右總數22個縣市平均總數縣市議員有533位鄉鎮市民代表有2139位全國"},{"start":22886.908,"end":22912.977,"text":"那個不是專業家籍啊專業家籍原本就有了主管家籍主管家籍主管家籍主管家籍因為劉建國委員的版本跟我們徐欣委員版本最大不同其實是徐欣委員版本多一個縣市議會議員你看一下那個原本徐欣委員的版本第三條那劉建國委員跟徐欣委員都有支持第9項的鄉鎮市民代表"},{"start":22913.891,"end":22925.528,"text":"有多增加主管職務加級嗎?那我是不是能夠再請教一下次長?次長除了錢以外行政部門連中央主管機關考量是什麼?"},{"start":22926.912,"end":22927.352,"text":"劉建國的是在修正動議"},{"start":22956.204,"end":22977.856,"text":"劉建國在修正動議的第5案啊 修正動議第5案劉建國是坐在這裡的版本那麼多你不要我再補充一下我那個針對縣市議員的部分是有遺漏掉我會提這個修正動議基本上還是會跟這個學員的這個看法是一致的啦"},{"start":22978.416,"end":23001.328,"text":"因為我們要去修鄉鎮市民代表讓他可以增加主管加級不然就一般縣市議員還是市議員把他放掉嘛謝謝那既然大家都有共識是不是就依照徐姓委員跟劉建國委員的版本就綜合一個版本縣市議會也增加主管職務加級然後我們鄉鎮市民代表增加主管職務加級其實這就變是"},{"start":23002.611,"end":23028.178,"text":"有點類似回復正義啦,過去沒有到的一個地方,那現在我們把它給回復正義嘛,是不是?好,那現在我們劉建國委員和徐欣宇委員請我們內政部處長統一大家的共識吧,那你來,內政部的看法我們尊重委員的意見啦,那因為這個當初的確是因為我剛剛特別講了,當時的時代背景有這樣考量嘛"},{"start":23028.837,"end":23057.487,"text":"那以現在因為現在所有的民意代表的比照是比照縣市這個行政機關的這個標準來訂定那現在的確是因為長期以來這兩塊是沒有的是沒有增加這個租款價值的那以現在的薪資來算的話因為假設這是一個固定一個機制的話那應該是包括他的這個底薪還有賺來價值還有租款價值這一部分"},{"start":23058.151,"end":23058.912,"text":"王美惠 我覺得這個問題政治這樣解說是沒問題的"},{"start":23068.82,"end":23075.963,"text":"張宏祿委員,要不要再發言?不要喔?好,那我們就叫徐旭銀委員跟劉俊國委員"},{"start":23098.494,"end":23109.219,"text":"徐欣宇的版本徐欣宇委員徐欣宇徐欣宇徐欣宇徐欣宇徐欣宇徐欣宇徐欣宇"},{"start":23128.453,"end":23152.487,"text":"你還有新的啊?因為習近平的版本大家都有共識嘛對啦我們就有共識嘛就先保留一下這案就先保留一下嘛好不好馬上再補過去"},{"start":23156.303,"end":23183.691,"text":"有共識有共識就不用保留了不是啦等一下啦不是啦不是保留啦來啦來啦抱歉各位委員各位委員我提一個建議各位委員我提一個建議啦我們是不是大家看一下我們這個法條的這一本齁那徐信義委員的條文確實已經寫得很完整了那如果說大家都有共識我們等一下大家一起最後大家一起簽個名"},{"start":23184.551,"end":23210.499,"text":"在支持徐信義的版本代表說大家都一起支持,也不是說只有徐信義的版本啦是大家共同的啦好不好那這樣就不用再等條文了嘛大家看一下徐信義的版本對就是第6項縣市議會議員增加主管職務加級以及第9項鄉鎮市民代表增加主管職務加級好不好"},{"start":23212.526,"end":23217.292,"text":"主席我可以提問一下嗎主席不好意思"},{"start":23230.188,"end":23259.211,"text":"比較晚加入我是想請教一下你的第6款就是增加就是縣市議員給他主管加級然後最後一個是鄉鑒市民代表那可以大概讓我們知道說縣市議員這樣每一個人一個月是多少總數我大概知道總數我大概知道個別我為什麼要問這個問題是因為我們後面的條文會處理到我們對於縣市議員的助理費還有他其他盡可能讓他可以拉平所以如果這裡又有增加我只是說等一下在後面處理的條文"},{"start":23260.185,"end":23285.327,"text":"可能會相關每位的話如果增加縣市議員增加的部分一個人會增加一萬九千一百三十一萬九千一百三十這個是這是縣市議員的部分那鄉鎮市民代表的部分是增加七千五百二十塊七千五百二十二十元是per monthper month"},{"start":23290.975,"end":23303.818,"text":"喂喂我這裏也補充一下剛剛照我們次長說的齁主管加擠加進去之後縣市議員就是每個月10萬2280元那鄉鎮市民代表每個月是69350元沒錯吧本來對啊本來61830嘛剛剛照那個次長說的我們現在就變69350"},{"start":23321.512,"end":23322.273,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":23342.892,"end":23342.952,"text":"主席"},{"start":23358.979,"end":23378.417,"text":"議員也是一樣比照處長或局長議員的部分比照處長他還是會升每年加一階一階一階到年功課我們都沒有降血我們還是比他們少所以執行司議員也是一樣比照那個局長十三指等一階"},{"start":23379.378,"end":23379.398,"text":"委員會議員會議"},{"start":23409.284,"end":23410.384,"text":"現在進行下面"},{"start":23438.747,"end":23462.144,"text":"繼續進行第5條的條文還有互表的討論請各位委員有無意見我們高津召委第5條的部分為我的修正動議請看一下我的修正動議的第5條我增加第二項那這第二項原住民的地方民意代表的為民服務費用最高為1.5倍"},{"start":23464.526,"end":23488.776,"text":"這是我比較成因委員的版本我覺得蠻不錯的那比行政院裡面的1.1倍還高然後我還增加了3到6項增加的第三項就是交通補助費其實剛剛包括中交兵委員還有劉建國委員都有提到就是說我們的地方民意代表尤其是這個偏鄉或原鄉地區他的服務廣闊"},{"start":23490.117,"end":23513.646,"text":"所以我們把這個福原遼闊地理環境交通狀況氣候條件延伸的費用都通稱為交通補助費那這個部分的話大家可以參照立法院組織法第32條我們也是有給立委相關的事務費用我們有油料費那個油料費是每個人每月是600公升"},{"start":23514.486,"end":23540.353,"text":"按照以現在的油價來算的話大概一個月補助1.8萬左右雖然立法院的這個補助給立委的原住民的跟偏鄉的跟一般的立委還是不同但是我也有提案修了所以我們既然今天要修地方議員的話我覺得這個部分也是考量的部分然後接著下來我就是請大家也看一下教育部的各機關學校的公教"},{"start":23541.033,"end":23566.789,"text":"公教人員的所謂的地域加級表他也是有分園鄉跟偏鄉的部分所以呢第4項增加的第3項費用的實施辦法我希望是由中央主管定資原因是因為我們的教育部也有這個部分然後再來增加的第3項的費用補助的額度是希望每兩年調整"},{"start":23568.93,"end":23571.551,"text":"交通補助費用是由中央主管來編列"},{"start":23590.057,"end":23615.023,"text":"好謝謝我們高金召委那第5條有本席吳清明提案還有吳立法委員還有我們高金召委我們的修正動議有第3條第4條第5項第6項這是我們高金召委所提出的好那我們各位委員大家再看一下"},{"start":23626.343,"end":23628.965,"text":"報告周偉第5條只有我的"},{"start":23636.835,"end":23642.542,"text":"有修正動議嗎?沒有,那個吳立華的修正動議是他沒有講到交通費用啦所以我的第5條的修正動議是講得非常清楚而且呢我增加了蠻多項的"},{"start":23653.596,"end":23668.785,"text":"那按照現在這個不管是陳英委員或者是吳立華委員的部分的話只有1項2項那我是增加了第4到7項所以講得非常清楚以上補充謝謝好謝謝那現在請吳斯亞委員"},{"start":23672.742,"end":23699.025,"text":"好看到高金委員第5條增加了後面的4項那當然是要協助地方民意代表可以讓他們在服務上更有國家的支持但我可能有幾個事情要就較於就是條文如果通過看是提案委員說明或者是內政部來想辦法回答也就是交通補助費就這邊的增略的第三項因為他的服務區域幅員遼闊"},{"start":23700.626,"end":23726.528,"text":"那地理環境交通狀況氣候條件而衍生之費用我是比較想知道如何去定定雖然下面那一項有說是中央主管機關來定之但是譬如說我就會當然我想高金委員是原住民族的委員可能是比較想替原鄉來爭取之類的那但是畢竟對於區域遼闊地理環境交通狀況好我舉例我自己的選區是北投士林"},{"start":23727.488,"end":23743.719,"text":"北投士林北投士林是臺北的臺北市的沒有這是地方政府啦這是地方議員啦然後呢我在試圖說士林北投是臺北市的面積上是二分之一是二分之一大"},{"start":23744.82,"end":23773.021,"text":"所以我的選區也會從平地到大屯山到竹子湖到七星山到沙茂山這樣子那因為如果說我是在想像怎麼去因應這些過去在教育部處理偏鄉教育條例的話大家可能這裡有教育委員會出生的對於他比較有清楚的定義偏鄉什麼樣子的學校他的地理條件"},{"start":23774.741,"end":23791.208,"text":"叫做偏鄉然後距離最近的區公所或是距離最近的公車站牌他有比較清楚的定義所以在偏鄉教育條例的這個原用之下他還分成偏鄉學校非偏鄉學校然後一個不山不市的學校就非山非市的學校"},{"start":23792.108,"end":23807.982,"text":"所以不是山區也不是市區的學校所以他有很清楚對於交通狀況多少公里距離哪裡怎麼樣那現在的條文講到區域遼闊地理環境交通狀況是什麼樣是試算跟比較的標準"},{"start":23809.312,"end":23838.367,"text":"好因為如果通過的話未來主管機關是你們內政部要訂喔怎麼去訂呢可能要說明一下執行上會是什麼樣的規劃那第二個我的意見是說如果要特別把因為現在對於縣市直轄市議員的這些都是地方議會地方政府編列預算嘛對不對你要特別來拿這條針對交通補助費額外來中央編列這樣會不會整個在制度上是亂的套的"},{"start":23839.372,"end":23866.374,"text":"如果要支持這個事情一樣也是回歸地方政府啊否則你對於每一個地方縣市議員他的薪水本奉這些東西包括剛剛講的這些什麼主管家籍什麼是地方政府來支應可是唯獨在交通補助費這一項變成中央來編列這樣賺到最多不是怪怪但是這些都會回到我剛剛說的那個前提何謂地理服務員遼闊他服務的區域是方圓多少公里算"},{"start":23867.435,"end":23890.965,"text":"交通狀況是什麼樣的交通狀況被列定它是特別辛苦的服務區然後什麼樣子的地理環境跟氣候條件那如果這樣子我們陽明山上一天到晚一年百分之八十的時間在下雨北投還有這個溫泉還有硫磺劑什麼東西都壞得比較快像我的服務處的設備都壞得比較快對不對所以這些東西是怎麼樣去釐定"},{"start":23893.486,"end":23898.507,"text":"內政部要說明清楚,因為主管機關要定資,你的執行上怎麼處理?"},{"start":23898.507,"end":23900.027,"text":"如果這樣通過,你一定會出事嗎?"},{"start":23900.027,"end":23904.648,"text":"還有我剛才問你的問題,是誰來編這筆錢?"},{"start":23904.648,"end":23919.751,"text":"抱歉,是不是我們請這個... 我們請內政部次長回答之前我要針對這個吳斯堯委員所提出的部分 你提出的,我這邊講得非常的清楚,第一件事情它叫做交通補助費"},{"start":23920.911,"end":23943.642,"text":"沒有包括你的器材或那個些東西好不好第二個我要講的是明的臺北市的陽明山我就比秀林鄉富士村就比一個彰化市還大所以你這樣子比本席你當然你當然是講你自己的部分但是我要講原住民的部分所以今天才會有第5條的修正動議然後再來就是你剛剛講得很好教育部裡面的分山分市"},{"start":23950.705,"end":23974.328,"text":"這個是中央裡面就可以明定他有講什麼叫做偏遠地區什麼叫高山地區這個部分然後再來就是教育部也有針對中央補助地方財政他有分偏遠特偏極偏偏遠所以以上施要委員所擔心那個部分恰巧你提的部分跟我提的教育部都一樣"},{"start":23975.149,"end":24001.148,"text":"中央同樣是中央教育部都可以針對這兩個部分有提出相關為什麼內政部不行所以這個也是我剛剛一直講的就是說我增加第4到第7項的部分不是沒有中央部會可以比較中央部會的教育部是可以比較的所以我們現在回歸到的就是民意代表的交通補助費用我剛剛講到"},{"start":24002.509,"end":24022.594,"text":"立法院的組織法第32條有針對立法委員的流量費由來補助每人每月600公升而我們看內政部裏面的條文他給我們看的附加條文裏面他沒有所以我們給地方的議員因為服務員的遼闊"},{"start":24024.734,"end":24043.293,"text":"我們給他加油費是合理的啊怎麼會不合理呢剛剛包括鍾嘉斌委員跟那個劉建國委員也針對偏鄉地區的這些幅員遼闊也希望來增加部分所以我覺得第5條的部分我增加第4到第7項是沒有問題的那麼我要再提一下比較遺憾的是"},{"start":24048.417,"end":24076.665,"text":"呃那個陳穎委員他自己的第5條版本他有寫到1.5倍但是呢吳立華委員提的修正版本把1.5倍拿掉了那這個部分我是有一點難過啦就是說針對原住民的立法委員為什麼今天內政部都同意增加10%為什麼我們自己陳穎委員的版本和吳立華委員版本把那個偵查部分拿掉了"},{"start":24077.285,"end":24093.926,"text":"甚至陳委員是講1.5倍所以我在修正動議裡面我同意陳委員講的1.5倍他比所謂的內政部裡面提出來的10%還多所以我的修正動議裡面我同意"},{"start":24096.327,"end":24117.833,"text":"這個這個陳委員的1.5倍接著下來我再增加4到7項以上再補充說明希望在場的各位委員們能夠體訓能夠瞭解我們現在在談的地方民意代表因為不僅僅是助理的費用他也因為交通地域的遼闊也應該要增加這個交通的費用以上補充謝謝"},{"start":24120.623,"end":24126.866,"text":"我自己是做了第5條付表的一個修正那主要是為民服務費那其他關於議員"},{"start":24147.436,"end":24176.224,"text":"還有鄉鎮市民代表的部分其實都跟內政部的版本大概一致但是我是特別在附註中去註明原住民的直轄市縣市議員及鄉鎮市民代表的為民服務費每人每月增加10%那剛才有特別去討論這個部分當然第一"},{"start":24176.664,"end":24176.944,"text":"主席"},{"start":24206.664,"end":24212.206,"text":"現在我們就針對第5條的條文本文來先處理 附帶條文 附表部分我們等一下再討論 分兩個階段好不好"},{"start":24225.012,"end":24225.793,"text":"我們請內政部的次長來回答好不好"},{"start":24261.2,"end":24277.97,"text":"在直轄市議會的實際的運作裡面我舉高雄市議會為例那如果依據現在有委員提出的版本這個原住民地方民意代表為民服務費提高為1.5倍也就是本來的2萬"},{"start":24280.131,"end":24305.157,"text":"現在修正版本好像是4萬本來4萬提升為1.5倍就變成6萬是每個月6萬是每個月增加2萬那在這裡面的這個交通補助費指的是每個月要編交通補助費還是說他在出席參與議會開會的時候他的交通補助費要跟其他的市議員的交通補助費是不一樣的"},{"start":24305.757,"end":24331.271,"text":"那這個在實際上地方議會的和消會遇到一個問題就是說他的為民服務費裡面已經有交通費用然後在交通費用裡面又增加了這個交通補助費是不一樣的這個可能在執行上不要讓這個原民的議員在和消的過程上有任何違法的問題我希望內政部要把這個問題講清楚"},{"start":24332.432,"end":24333.473,"text":"內政部我們次長來同仇來回答謝謝我們各位委員的指教"},{"start":24356.399,"end":24370.45,"text":"這樣跟各位委員報告在我們所有的立法院跟地方民意代表的支給的這些費用裡面只有立法委員是很清楚去定義有四項是分別給予這一個行政事務的補助的"},{"start":24371.03,"end":24385.585,"text":"包括文具油票是一項每個月多少錢是一項辦公室會是一項油料費是一項服務處的租金是一項其他的直轄市議員縣市議員鄉知市民代表通通是列在衛民服務費裡面"},{"start":24387.026,"end":24408.543,"text":"我這條特別報告就是說明目你訂的越多出問題就有可能越大那我們是包在一個衛民服務會裡面那這裡面包括所有的統籌的這個支出所以我們認為這樣子的話比較不容易會出問題如果你單內一直把每一項一直在增加的話這會變成非常的複雜"},{"start":24409.684,"end":24437.021,"text":"這個我大概第一個我先做這樣的一個報告那另外一個就是說在修法裡面第5條的修法裡面如果很單純的話我們未必一定要在這個本法條裡面去訂在戶表裡面就可以把它納到戶表裡面至於說這個衛民會這個原住這個園民區增加10%或者增加所謂的1.5倍等等這些那這些可以各位委員可以大家一起再一起討論這個基本上"},{"start":24437.941,"end":24453.173,"text":"我們現在院版就是10%我們是考慮到這個大概這個這個園民區的範圍的那你如果是增加如果只要增加1.5倍那是不是有需要到這樣的一個額度這個可能委員們要去考量好來喔好你先好來"},{"start":24460.816,"end":24479.744,"text":"因為趙委員剛剛一直沒有看我,我一直就一直舉手真的這個部分我先回應這個部分那按照次長所講的地方的民意代表跟立法委員不一樣那麼是不是您在為民服務費用上面因為這個講的是為民服務費對不對"},{"start":24483.365,"end":24501.527,"text":"你在那個附件裡面所以你在條文沒有你在附件裡面有為民服務費你看到了沒有為民服務費直轄市議員是4萬縣市議員是2萬嘛那能不能在這邊的提高呢就可以解決交通的費用這是我的意見第一個"},{"start":24502.288,"end":24524.449,"text":"第二部分的話,我們今天有調整議員助理補助費的總額和費用人數你們內政部告訴我們是說議會必須建立內控機制,周延支領費用規範,減少詐領的可能所以按照那個部分你都有內控,為什麼交通的部分就不行呢?"},{"start":24525.79,"end":24545.321,"text":"接下來,如果我們有明定1.5倍不是更好嗎?你說樂觀其成,如果既然是樂觀其成我的修正動議裡面是把它放在法條裡面而不是在附件裡面,不是會更好嗎?以上我的補充,謝謝好,請吳思堯我先回應一下"},{"start":24553.311,"end":24569.709,"text":"在這裏面的這個相關的補助裏面我要特別跟各位委員報告不管直轄市議員縣市議員或者鄉鎮市民代表事實上他本身就有出席會有交通會有膳食會這個都有包括每一天一千塊這個都有包括在內"},{"start":24570.694,"end":24596.528,"text":"那剛剛這個這個委員特別有講的我不是樂觀其成我是大家你們討論有共識的話我們是尊重不是我樂觀其成說法這樣我就同意說這個1.5倍我們也認得1.5倍的額度是不是太高這個要請委員你們要去考量因為院版裡面我們當初說會增加10%大概我們都有考量到這個這個區域範圍他還做出這樣一個10%的一個額度"},{"start":24601.415,"end":24622.054,"text":"主席換我喔謝謝這樣的討論很有意義啦因為這樣討論來才知道說條文如果這樣加加加我們可能要因應什麼樣子的支出所以如果我沒有理解錯的話次長您剛剛的回應是說就是現在所有的費用其實都包括在為民服務費裡面嘛對不對限制是這樣嘛"},{"start":24623.115,"end":24652.102,"text":"那既然已經這裡有委員提案說已經要增加原住民族的地方民意代表的為民服務費有的是10%有的是150%1.5倍就是150%兩個案所以應該來講交通補助費就是包括在裡面的嘛對不對所以這個部分大家來討論是比較單純我為什麼對於後面新增的幾項我比較有質疑是因為因為我看來他本身怎麼去定義然後怎麼去試算"},{"start":24653.499,"end":24667.318,"text":"在這個條文是沒有辦法去讓我們清楚可以算出來的變成一個原則性而且他可能就是一個比較空白的授權所以立法會都去算公現在的條文如高金委員所寫的這後面的倒數"},{"start":24668.459,"end":24687.211,"text":"三項倒數四項到底會增加多少交通補助費我們現在要審條文了目前是沒有辦法算出來的沒有辦法算出來就是因為我剛剛說那些定義什麼叫做服務員遼闊什麼叫做交通狀況什麼叫做天候狀況所以這樣子的條文弄出來的話倒不如剛剛就是次長說的把它"},{"start":24688.892,"end":24706.822,"text":"韓國災我們要著雨提升原住民族的地方民意代表問政的需求他的問民服務費著雨多少的著增這樣真的比較單純要不然你後面這些你是沒有辦法試算的我們立法院要通過一個條文目前沒有辦法試算出他的金額而且又載明說是要中央政府來編列我想這個是執行業會比較多困難"},{"start":24711.405,"end":24730.823,"text":"好那這樣回過頭來就回到現在的第二項對於原住民族的地方民意代表的問民服務費大家要去審酌一個合理的數字我們都願意幫忙原住民族的地方民意代表他們的服務確實比較辛苦服務員遼闊但是呢兩個案子一個10%一個150%"},{"start":24734.146,"end":24742.334,"text":"這顯然 這顯然差別就是大家要共同來決定那如果以150來講就形同一個地方民意代表剛剛講的"},{"start":24743.959,"end":24766.371,"text":"因為原住民族的選出來的身份他會比他多那6萬塊4萬塊就變6萬塊阿這其他這個民意代表會不會覺得相對的就有被剝奪感這個是大家要共同去討論的問題如果是150%就是1.5倍的話會不會形成其他的民意代表他認為這個差距好像"},{"start":24767.071,"end":24768.912,"text":"我説明一下好了"},{"start":24792.74,"end":24805.11,"text":"我是樂觀其成我樂見喔但是我說明一下那個1.5的話就是直轄市的議員4萬變6萬如果說是10%就是4萬再加4千4萬4那縣議員的話是2萬1.5費會變3萬如果是10%的話就2萬2千然後一個是7千5一個是5千5"},{"start":24828.154,"end":24834.26,"text":"不好意思不好意思我再補充一下如果按照內政部的版本增加10%的話以現在的來說4萬塊就增加10%是4.4萬然後縣議員增加10%的話是2萬2"},{"start":24848.112,"end":24865.138,"text":"那如果按照我的版本1.5倍也包含這個陳怡委員的版本的話直轄市是6萬縣轄市是3萬所以只增加幾千塊而已這幾千塊對啊一個是4.4萬一個是6萬一個是3萬一個2.2萬嘛沒有縣轄市會3萬3萬啦"},{"start":24874.269,"end":24890.283,"text":"所以2.2的3萬就8千嘛 所以我認為這個部分如果大家同意的話 那麼它就會增加 那我們如果大家覺得在所謂的油料費上面"},{"start":24891.464,"end":24917.902,"text":"會增加地方上的這些問題的話那你就增加民定1.5倍我也沒有意見我也同意但是我在第8條裡面有增加交通的費用我可以不要在第5條跟第7條裡面來增加我會增加第8條的部分好不好所以第5條的部分如果大家對於這個交通補助費裡面不要再增加這麼多項那麼我就堅持是1.5倍"},{"start":24921.304,"end":24922.845,"text":"我先舉手而且我已經舉3次了"},{"start":24936.912,"end":24954.411,"text":"主席我覺得是這樣子我們今天才審到第二條那我覺得這個審查的過程當中大家都很想幫地方民意代表解決現在的困境坦白講我們也都很想幫大家增加資源"},{"start":24955.192,"end":24961.256,"text":"所以大家拼命的在想有剛剛從第一個的主管家級然後現在的這個民意服務這個這個為民服務費然後有交通費有什麼什麼費還要繼續下去因為還有好多條在這樣的狀況那"},{"start":24972.842,"end":24975.025,"text":"如果從我的立場來講 我也樂觀其成啊每個人都樂觀其成啊 誰在這裡敢說不是樂觀其成 要押錢的大家都要拿錢出來 要拿資源出來 我也都覺得很棒啊 但是我覺得是這樣子"},{"start":24988.479,"end":25014.79,"text":"是不是因為我們如果按照條次這樣一路審下去以後每一次我們就審一個項目那就那個項目的時候像我也覺得交通費很有道理啊因為交通費真的就是那個陸服的狀況每個都不一樣啊如果像義營姐的高雄義營姐的選區佔高雄的70%對不對那所以每一個人的狀況真的都不一樣交通費當然有它的道理但是"},{"start":25015.47,"end":25039.667,"text":"如果按照條次這樣審下去的話我們會沒有辦法看到我們這次到底要增加什麼的全貌而且總額會是多少到最後你是不斷不斷的撿石頭到籃子裡面最後就被石頭給壓死了這是有可能發生的狀況我覺得做一個負責任的立法未來國民黨也有執政的可能啊"},{"start":25040.796,"end":25040.836,"text":"對馬一定會"},{"start":25071.196,"end":25093.873,"text":"可以啊,很好啊,對啊不是啦,侯委員,您先讓我說一下喔主席,我覺得現在這樣討論真的是會很亂啦是不是我們休息5分鐘,你聽我講完啦侯陸,不用啦,你聽我講完你就知道我要講什麼,真的不用啦"},{"start":25094.715,"end":25095.637,"text":"主席我講一下啦"},{"start":25104.383,"end":25133.396,"text":"第5條的這一個部分大家看一下修正動議第11也就是高金素美委員提出來的版本其實他的交通補助費不是限於原住民的議員或民意代表這一點要請大家先了解要偏鄉一般都有但是剛剛也聽到就是說因為我們其實在剛剛第三條的一個部分已經有討論到這個主管家級所以說其實高金委員他也沒有一定堅持說交通補助費但是原住民地方民意代表確實跟我們一般我覺得這個"},{"start":25134.136,"end":25134.456,"text":"我建議主席"},{"start":25157.096,"end":25169.479,"text":"我沒有跟你說完啦 美惠你不要 你剛剛好啦 我在講的是說 既然如此 那我們這個當然是要尊重原住民的 你真的跟他們尊重一下好不好"},{"start":25181.857,"end":25200.413,"text":"剛剛你們講話的時候我們都沒有發聲那現在我們在討論這個每一條主條都很重要我們也希望能夠推進所以說我現在才講說第5條的這個修正動議我覺得是應該要尊重我們藍綠兩黨的原住民委員提出來的提案也因此現在我們有看到包括陳寅委員是民進黨的委員他也提出1.5倍"},{"start":25201.354,"end":25230.346,"text":"包括高金素美委員他也提出1.5倍包括吳立華委員您的版本最終應該是1.1對不對我覺得說是不是主席你在這邊你在這邊讓原住民的委員他們去做一個協調那我們這一條可以先保留但是我們最後再回來然後就是確定到底是能夠增加多少那我覺得是說紀念委員會這邊討論其實是有一個高度而且我們也希望能夠在今天有一個結論嘛我想這主席也同意"},{"start":25230.786,"end":25249.124,"text":"所以如果說這個次長這邊沒有太大的一個意見的話我覺得是原住民的委員你們去達成一個共識因為現在看起來陳寅委員是支持1.5高金樹美委員支持1.5那吳立華委員也許你也樂觀其成那你們有一個結論那我們大家尊重啦沒有阿"},{"start":25251.127,"end":25254.008,"text":"原住民地方民意代表委民服務費最高1.5倍"},{"start":25272.375,"end":25285.774,"text":"今天這個大家都想要一個共識但如果說我們這樣一條一條這樣子這個那邊那個我跟你講你會失去了全貿有的東西你是在事務補助費用裡面你就可以加有的東西我覺得我們應該齁"},{"start":25287.782,"end":25309.001,"text":"跟內政部我們先講好到底哪些加哪些啊這樣子我們來討論才會有一個有一個總規的一個總概括一個討論不然你這個加那個加你到時候我跟你講本來我們希望說加個1.5到最後你會超過1.5變成兩倍三倍的我不是只有原住民"},{"start":25309.702,"end":25328.931,"text":"很多東西是事務補助費裡面就可以包含的東西了我覺得我們休息一下我們跟內政部大家有一個大方向之後我們來來這樣討論才可以討論出來啦不然你一條一條你這樣會亂掉啦不是阿現在就在逐條討論不紅綠好阿逐條討論我們現在先休息然後"},{"start":25332.593,"end":25333.894,"text":"修正草案等37案"},{"start":25354.804,"end":25373.173,"text":"我是要求內政部要把今天所有委員要求加的項目放進來,我們要今天修法的全貌,這樣我們才知道到底是要加什麼,你們可以提出表格出來啊,你們的意見是什麼啊?對啊,怎麼會有這種想法呢?"},{"start":25374.053,"end":25374.073,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":25391.809,"end":25413.203,"text":"你聽我講啦,因為我不愛人,我都不是,你講你大爺的名都做壞,他說他愛生女兒,我來照這個,我不是照他講的啦,我不是照他講啦,我不是在笑他,因為目前的人都愛尊重,我怎麼會去"},{"start":25414.343,"end":25414.804,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":25444.205,"end":25445.845,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":25470.377,"end":25494.697,"text":"市長你現在意見怎麼樣?因為洪祿偉的意見 我說給大家聽他一直說不要再罰你們一個五倍但是因為你們沒有版本所以你們版本是在付表裡面對不對?付表就是一二三四五五個嘛 對不對?那如果在付表裡面你再不要再罰你們一個五倍在這邊金額提高我們也沒有意見啊"},{"start":25495.257,"end":25497.778,"text":"我只是說我要說明因為我們的基礎我已經先修"},{"start":25512.913,"end":25533.338,"text":"是把直轄市議員2萬提升到4萬是增加2萬所以我很難想像服務費又要給他提升到1.5倍的話是又多2萬就是4萬變6萬我上面的條文講得非常清楚是為民服務費沒有 付表裡面也是"},{"start":25538.498,"end":25548.397,"text":"為民不務廢每個大家看一下行政院的那個內政部的版本就是我寫的就這個增加百分之十嘛那百分之十只有1.1"},{"start":25550.476,"end":25572.409,"text":"對我們現在講的是1.5倍那所以同樣是為民服務費同路委員講的我也可以接受我們如果是等一下我們如果在法條裡面復民地1.5倍那麻煩就是你的付表修正裡面這個錢都要提高對我就是修復票這樣了解嗎我了解"},{"start":25573.149,"end":25575.251,"text":"反正是我們說因為已經增加到百分之百"},{"start":25589.718,"end":25606.578,"text":"議員會議員會"},{"start":25607.158,"end":25607.178,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":25633.259,"end":25635.16,"text":"議員：立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會議"},{"start":25649.431,"end":25665.186,"text":"我也請你準備來今天補償的時候,你要告訴我們考量,我們考量是說嚴肅無序的換卷,大概我們增加的分析增加百分之十,哪一個金額適合以後增加會增加四千塊,就四千塊嘛"},{"start":25667.608,"end":25667.628,"text":"議員．審查"},{"start":25689.417,"end":25706.391,"text":"所以 我的意思 你的基礎如果是按照這樣我們就要增加了嗎?那就是變成是一百億跟一百億所以 我們是從中原打到外地長城"},{"start":25710.794,"end":25715.238,"text":"市民代表我們這邊原住民委員可以先去討論一個"},{"start":25738.536,"end":25738.796,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":25756.001,"end":25775.439,"text":"對阿他們市民代表他是一個區的市民代表是一個區海灘我以前龜山市民代表對對對對他一個區生4個市民代表因為一個更小市民代表很小這也太樓了吧"},{"start":25779.221,"end":25779.742,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":25795.407,"end":25800.228,"text":"總之大家多坐下來談 因為都希望可以做好一點"},{"start":25818.093,"end":25818.494,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":25840.829,"end":25863.234,"text":"他可能是寫錯了﹖會不會啊?應該是書吧﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖是書吧﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖不是啦﹖"},{"start":25865.655,"end":25866.016,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":25881.854,"end":25889.2,"text":"我們先來繼續開會我們第5條本條條文跟戶表我們先討論第6條好不好"},{"start":25900.23,"end":25916.63,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":25918.904,"end":25938.783,"text":"內政部沒有把我們接下來要審的每一條可能會增加多少預算在場的委員都很難承擔這個責任所以我們今天審完到底幫國庫多花了多少錢內政部要先算出來吧好 謝謝主席主席來我感覺說要看這個"},{"start":25942.807,"end":25943.247,"text":"我們先討論第6條"},{"start":25971.51,"end":25999.506,"text":"好來我還是覺得要支持像巧慧委員剛剛說的我們這整個這一次修法的全貌是什麼我們總共調了什麼我們一開始很多人質詢都講過了加班費支遣費這是一個項目然後衛民服務費是一個項目然後後面隨著軍公交調整也是一個項目全部項目拿出來講告訴我們全部這個全貌是這樣然後我們總共增加了多少才可以來討論說這個時候在這邊又突然新增一個名目到底合不合理嗎"},{"start":26000.679,"end":26001.28,"text":"好,好,好"},{"start":26025.855,"end":26044.063,"text":"所以這個名目是什麼大家要很清楚不能說我現在又想到一條這個其實理由要說真的一百個理由都有每個人都有自己需要的東西啊我們也都對我們都很支持啊只是說這個全貌是什麼內政部一定要講清楚"},{"start":26046.145,"end":26053.559,"text":"對啊我們不能說現在說好現在兩萬已經變四萬四萬再加一點我會變六萬意思是我們今天出去兩萬會變六萬捏"},{"start":26056.16,"end":26081.42,"text":"現在我們內政部每一條都是尊重阿你尊重我看不是啦我會講主席 如果要這樣尊重他做事也要一直加跟他師傅要一直加 這樣就麻煩你了各位委員 剛剛提出來的你的細算辦法你都沒說對阿 都說要當主席"},{"start":26086.038,"end":26088.159,"text":"我們就第6條先討論也沒有什麼不好的啊 對不對"},{"start":26103.629,"end":26119.439,"text":"拜託主席我先跟各位報告一下原則上我們是用驗版的來討論嘛我們立場一定是驗版的那各位委員你可能會有不同的你要去加碼幹什麼東西這個你們大家要有共識啊這不是來問我要不要啊"},{"start":26120.319,"end":26136.835,"text":"沒有,你到底要回答合不合理啊?金費是國家出的,你到底要回答合不合理啊?你必須要提醒,就是說你政策會不會增加財源?這個你們要考量。副市長,你不用這麼答覆我,副市長"},{"start":26138.419,"end":26150.335,"text":"社長你這樣打我是出問題啦對啊誇張嚴重的問題啦我蠻同意的啦我講一下啦我們原有的民調執行條例是不是叫做同工同酬"},{"start":26152.93,"end":26180.765,"text":"因為是這原者在編列嘛不可能以前沒有當次長嘛對不對好 那我們現在在村里長的私會裡面在村里長的私會裡面你們行政院的版本主動要針對原住民區要增加百分之十喔 對不對所以我們自己要去把這個打開喔叫做什麼 叫做不同工又不同酬喔當你把這個打開之後為什麼我片尾地區不能打開"},{"start":26183.192,"end":26204.018,"text":"為什麼?為什麼?你要跟我講為什麼?好再來你聽我講完不要把縣市議員鄉鎮市民代表開會的交通會當成是一個正常交通會喔那是局限在開會所有交通會各位搞清楚"},{"start":26205.051,"end":26233.318,"text":"為民不為裡面當然也涵蓋所謂的交通會這是你們的互見裡面非常清楚嘛 對不對不要以偏蓋權我實在強調一點說如果今天你要堅守同工同酬的這個原則那我們就看怎麼去增比例的去調整如果你們要打破同工同酬要變成不同工不同酬那就很多事情就是要鉅細密的來討論了"},{"start":26242.958,"end":26263.892,"text":"所以主席我覺得我們在討論這個事情我覺得建國委員講的很好同工同酬但是特殊需求增加多一點這是可以討論的但是這一條叫做為民服務費就是為你的選民服務的費用你要用什麼基準去看待為民服務費"},{"start":26265.434,"end":26278.164,"text":"如果說另外一個角度來思考如果以都會區的他的服務的選民更人口更稠密可能當選的議員他服務的選民人更多"},{"start":26279.398,"end":26298.348,"text":"所以他的為民服務他可能付出來的成本就更多這是另外一個思考的方式你從服務員的部分交通的部分他的偏鄉的部分是一個思考的方式那為了避免這些東西大家的思考不一樣就回到一個同工同酬的原則上去處理那"},{"start":26300.213,"end":26326.982,"text":"剛剛說的如果是1.5倍這個在合理性上大家真的要去思考所以為什麼要請你們去試算今天整包下來會有增加多少因為大家都加碼加碼大家講得很開心就像現在在網購我看到這個喜歡我就放上購物車那個喜歡放上購物車可是最後你要去結算購物車結算是多少是不是國庫可以負擔的"},{"start":26327.782,"end":26348.194,"text":"你會再經過一個比較這個可能就是購物車退掉這個購物車退掉我去買我真正需要的我去選擇真正合理的制度所以如果沒有一個這樣子的基準每一個大家都說得很開心這個也加碼那個也加碼最後爆掉了這個不是所以我說我要跟政事長你的說法國庫"},{"start":26350.535,"end":26373.053,"text":"合理的負擔你一定要試算清楚整個爆掉了地方政府喔地方政府要負擔的喔不是中央修法然後地方買單你要去想地方政府他們認為合不合理今天通過原住民族議員很開心可是另外的他非原住民族他服務的選區一樣大的議員他可能就有相對被剝奪感"},{"start":26374.938,"end":26390.238,"text":"這個東西要橫屏去討論所以這個條文是不是我們先進入下面的那這個先暫時保留等大家回來有條文因為剛才我們高金委員跟巧威委員還有吳立華委員他們都有協調好了"},{"start":26391.039,"end":26409.544,"text":"那是不是請高金委員請來說明我想這個部分我們就不要太多的贅述了我們還是回歸到條文的本身那剛剛我們有協調過了就是說我也不堅持在第5條的修正動議裡面一定要按照我的版本通過但是呢我們剛剛講到"},{"start":26412.646,"end":26430.306,"text":"原住民地區或偏鄉地區的議員的確跟縣市政府的議員是不一樣的我們不管他叫什麼費用但是總之他一定是要跟這個因為他的地域遼闊等等的來做所以呢當時內政部會同意我說是10%"},{"start":26431.647,"end":26452.391,"text":"但是10%這個部分我們覺得來換算以後真的還不是很好所以我覺得第5條的就按照行政院版本的第5條的副表裡面的注釋這個直轄市縣市議會的原住民議員為民服務費每人每月再增加20%增加10%的部分我們再增加百分"},{"start":26455.753,"end":26475.006,"text":"文字修正改成百分之二十好不好那這個部分也是紅路委員美惠委員巧惠委員還有還有我們大家剛剛在私底下討論的時候希望希望希望這個內政部能夠了解我們就不要再把劉建國委員跟這個"},{"start":26476.749,"end":26476.869,"text":"好﹗好﹗"},{"start":26506.361,"end":26521.109,"text":"市長10%都同意但高級委員希望20%我說你們要內政部要看一下看可不可以啊"},{"start":26530.874,"end":26532.795,"text":"我一直在強調一件事情"},{"start":26547.279,"end":26574.178,"text":"各位在討論這個東西的時候我們只能提醒各位就是說我願有願反本但是你如果要去加碼幹什麼你要考慮到財政現在我們都不提到財政地方到底如果一直加的話他到底有沒有辦法去承擔這樣的一個財政這個我必須要提醒當初我們在涉算這個不管百分之十這個部分或者整個的調整弧度我們是有經過涉算你要說講到公平"},{"start":26574.946,"end":26589.729,"text":"不一定絕對公平,我們做不到絕對公平,坦白講剛剛那個劉振國也特別提到,那你偏遠地區呢?偏遠地區可能會比你的那個原住民區還更更那個偏遠更交通不便啊那到底要不要再提進去?"},{"start":26595.228,"end":26607.594,"text":"我還是要說明一下基本上我是直接修這個付表那付表裏面我就是在這個附註"},{"start":26611.656,"end":26635.543,"text":"有有有對我就是在附註4的地方剛才私下的休息時間討論已經達成一個協議我原本是在復表修正第5條的復表的附註4我是寫增加10%但是剛才休息的時候我們是討論說20%那我要特別說明對我要特別說明"},{"start":26637.924,"end":26652.446,"text":"因為我們原鄉齁我還是要再說明一下以高雄市那馬下他就會他的選區會從那馬下鄉一直到高雄市的好幾個區左營區等等等"},{"start":26654.866,"end":26654.886,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":26672.552,"end":26672.892,"text":"謝謝吳立法委員的說明"},{"start":26698.308,"end":26709.779,"text":"我們現在只修第5條的護表本席的修正動議護制增加百分之10增加到百分之20"},{"start":26717.343,"end":26737.309,"text":"請以附表內容照本席以高經召委我們所提議的修正動議修正動議通過第5條的條文維持本文現行條文這樣可以嗎可以可以吧這個這個先講一下"},{"start":26741.348,"end":26742.468,"text":"我講的不是齊頭市啊,你這話講得沒有?"},{"start":26763.203,"end":26787.072,"text":"平衡的地區,難道你們不支持嗎?對不對?所以當你要影響我們去支持的時候,那你就是因為湖南廣闊嘛。你剛剛還一直以完整的話,你現在又打回來。那你看那邊緣的地區,偏鄉的地區,有的湖南還比圓鄉的可能更廣闊。那你這個部分要怎麼處理?這個你必須要思考嘛。這是一個一定的比例原則啦。"},{"start":26788.42,"end":26813.015,"text":"雖然我是希望說原先的本位是二層他們已經協調好沒有意見但是針對偏遠偏向的地方你要怎麼處理那內政部是不是你們來定定好那等一下內政部要統一回答我有舉手我有舉手好你要先點報告各位委員大家當然都擔心說偏向這個東西沒完沒了但問題是全台灣各級民意代表沒有沒有任何一般民意代表的選區比原住民更大嘛"},{"start":26814.076,"end":26815.017,"text":"希望大家成全以上謝謝"},{"start":26832.546,"end":26854.28,"text":"好謝謝那是巧慰委員謝謝牛委員剛剛的這個說法這個說法我其實是支持而且我本來就是要呼籲這樣的說法因為像我們新北市議員選出來的議員確實新北市的原住民議員不管是平地或者是山地他的服務範圍都是全新北市"},{"start":26855.02,"end":26879.082,"text":"全新北市所以我們是支持原鄉可以當然是可以加級啦因為這是符合這個比例的狀況但是我們剛剛考慮到同工不同酬的這個問題的話確實我覺得這段話如果剛剛是內政部來解釋的話會比我們現在委員在下面台下解釋其實是比較合理的狀況啦"},{"start":26880.123,"end":26898.724,"text":"因為對我們委員來講﹐不管是原鄉還是偏鄉﹐手心手背都是肉啊﹐那是可以做好人﹐我們兩個都想要加啊﹐所以到底是要怎麼加﹐那因為偏鄉他當然是偏﹐沒有錯﹐但是他是不是到全部﹐"},{"start":26899.264,"end":26914.988,"text":"那如果是這樣的話為民服務費有些是按照地理面積來看呢還是要用人口數來看呢那如果人口密集區那他也會說那我是不是要為民服務的更多呢所以像諸如種種的考慮的話"},{"start":26917.109,"end":26942.207,"text":"我還是覺得其實剛剛我說的這段話其實是內政部講可能比較合理啦好來 主席謝謝啦我想剛剛大家已經有一個共識就是百分之二十也感謝主席這邊有一個修正動議的一個才事啦那還是一樣啦不是我覺得執政黨的委員如果說你們提出來要偏鄉也要照顧那你們提修正動議你們提版本啊"},{"start":26943.007,"end":26954.434,"text":"我們提了半天 聽了半天 你們這也要做好人 那也要做好人 你們的版本也要推出來 那內政部今天 我們也沒有 政院版也還沒有進來 那到底我們現在是要怎麼討論"},{"start":26955.936,"end":26975.791,"text":"我想不要浪費彼此的時間就是說原名20%剛剛主席已經裁示了那大家是不是這一條就可以接受那如果說大家要拖時間的話那沒有錯啊我那邊人口一個區裡面有十幾萬人里長一個里三萬人的那那個里要不要比較多"},{"start":26976.892,"end":26998.049,"text":"所以不要這樣子比,這樣子會比沒完再一次強調,如果說真的委員有意見,委員負責任的把修正動議提出來,你的版本提出來我們來看不然你每個都只會站著說話不腰疼,我覺得這樣不應該啦,感謝好,那請我們次長同意回答,然後我們就這個案子我們就告一段落了"},{"start":26999.758,"end":27008.638,"text":"我想現在剛剛已經這個已經決定說要增加顏名區的增加4%那基本上我們沒有意見了因為大家也有共識了"},{"start":27010.561,"end":27011.101,"text":"好啦好啦"},{"start":27040.562,"end":27064.98,"text":"我最後再補充一點就好了因為我們等一下要審到第7條那第7條的時候就是我們等一下會討論到第7條我是用第7條來反映第5條的這樣的一個事情讓各位做參考剛剛蘇曉雯講得非常好到底你是要按服務員還是按服務人口這個其實都要有一個計算的依據跟基準"},{"start":27065.76,"end":27089.64,"text":"所以說當我們支持原住民的這樣的一個議員的服務費去增加的時候你必須要去思考的就是偏山偏遠的地方因為你在第7條的時候我們內政部是有針對原住民地區的村里每月要再增加10%的這個社會補助費這個地方又提到了"},{"start":27091.127,"end":27104.562,"text":"這個地方提到你可以說縣市議員他是服務整個縣市的這個我接受沒意見啊但是針對原民的這些村里長他應該不是服務整個縣市嘛他是也不會服務他整個村這個鄉鎮嘛"},{"start":27106.744,"end":27132.587,"text":"但是內政部你一開這些原名的地區的村里長每天在增加百分之十的時候他是只限於村里喔就是原住民的村里長他只服務這一個村里但是他未免服務費增加百分之十喔你第五條是這麼處理你第七條也是這麼處理那你要去思考一下這樣訂有沒有一定的避免者請思考一下齁"},{"start":27134.616,"end":27152.726,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝劉建國委員那是不是這部分車長要不要回應剛剛這個劉委員講的部分是如果假設你這個要偏偏地氣你要放進去的話那你變成戶表跟那個地氣條是要同時去修的你要放進去喔"},{"start":27154.331,"end":27183.089,"text":"連戶票你要放進去第7條因為第7條講的都是村里長的部分對啦律法技術這個都沒有什麼問題啦就剛才洪委員在講說為什麼大家又沒提出來不是不提嘛是讓讓大家對照去思考我們第1條這麼處理OK我沒有意見我也支持你馬上又進到第7條又針對村里長這個就是有只限於所謂的村里的服務範圍沒有所謂的一個大的縣市的範圍的概念裡面你去增加百分之十喔"},{"start":27186.428,"end":27192.05,"text":"這個我也支持阿 但是法條有一定的比例原則嘛 這個要遵守嘛"},{"start":27204.595,"end":27218.922,"text":"劉政國,劉政國委員,這樣你減低這第5條,原住民增加21%有沒有意見?我原本就沒有意見,我就支持啊,但是我在講的是那個天下的東西你要,你內政代表你必須要是支持好不好?"},{"start":27222.108,"end":27252.108,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":27254.793,"end":27267.424,"text":"第二條請問是各位委員會主席來 恩 恩里博議 恩里博議 恩里博議 恩里博議 恩里博議"},{"start":27278.407,"end":27293.584,"text":"好,沒關係,那第5條我們都全部都簽嘛,好不好?不是,後會的問題喔,大家都簽啦,沒有分什麼東西沒有啦,這都是為了大家共同的啦好,那我們就進行第6條的條文討論請各位委員有沒有意見"},{"start":27306.113,"end":27320.605,"text":"第6條有施巧慧委員．吳祁銘委員．劉行廷委員．丁協中委員．李博毅委員．吳立法委員．高金昭委提我們的修正動議"},{"start":27322.861,"end":27340.849,"text":"好謝謝主席這一條其實審查的就是這一次對於助理補助費要提升24年沒有調整這是重中之重的條文那我簡要報告我的提案我在直轄市的部分我提案是總額提高至30萬元助理補助費"},{"start":27344.271,"end":27363.048,"text":"議員 提高到20萬 批用人數的部分直轄市是6位地方縣市議會的助理是4人加班費的部分我在直轄市跟縣市都是著增20%也就直轄市增加6萬助理費地方政府的"},{"start":27364.689,"end":27393.696,"text":"現事的就是4萬塊那這樣子的試算我有用一個比較合理當然有參照的是臺北市議會戴希欽議長有提據一個臺北市議會共同的版本那當然他們期待的版本可能是要到36萬的總數但是因為如果就直轄市到36萬就要看地方縣市政府如果臺北市也許財源比較充足他可以編列的出來那其他的部分"},{"start":27394.156,"end":27412.663,"text":"其他的直轄市我沒有辦法來替他們來思考他們的裁員的狀況但是如果就直轄市一舉拉到36的話那跟縣市的差距又更大了所以我們這一次的修法在第6條是希望同步的提升然後又可以拉近直轄市跟縣市議員的助理費的"},{"start":27413.563,"end":27414.624,"text":"謝謝五四一委員還有"},{"start":27435.817,"end":27465.195,"text":"苗欣萍我們委員報告一下我們提修正動議的版本我們希望說直轄市議會議員每人公費助理至少6人縣市議會至少2人但我覺得至少拼用幾人這個我們可以保留彈性的調整空間但額度上我們當然要為地方議員的這個助理爭取最好的勞動待遇所以我們在直轄市議會議員我們主張助理費36萬縣市議會這個我非常贊成要把差距拉近所以我們大幅調高到20萬因為縣市議員的服務範圍跟服務的這個工作的量其實跟直轄市議員是沒有差的啦"},{"start":27465.555,"end":27466.375,"text":"以上跟大家報告,謝謝"},{"start":27486.143,"end":27486.283,"text":"主席"},{"start":27507.295,"end":27524.166,"text":"好,謝謝我們牛先天委員：就歡迎來聽施政委員感謝主席,我在這修正動議的過程中就是我們的直轄市議會縣市議會的議員助理,我們這個公費拿到議員助理,輔助各議員聘用助理,剛才其他的後面這就以牛委員那"},{"start":27535.453,"end":27541.215,"text":"修正綜藝委訓．其他再來．助理要適用勞動基準法規定．"},{"start":27550.399,"end":27577.345,"text":"好謝謝主席主席因為我的版本還來不及進來那所以我今天也有提修正動議那當然我也就人數跟這個費用的部分我有我的看法例如說直轄市議會議員每人每月是新台幣30萬元那縣市議會議員每人每月是新台幣18萬元因為我覺得這個差別不要到那麼大這個尤其是在公費助理的費用總額的部分"},{"start":27577.905,"end":27582.169,"text":"但是我想每個委員現在都在講自己的數額自己的版本那我縱觀這個所有的版本裡面大概已經有1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11種版本是然後是大家不同的數額所以其實這一條最重要的就是數字到底要定到多少"},{"start":27600.768,"end":27623.179,"text":"那是不是內政部可以告訴我們因為院板還沒有附還沒有進到委員會的院板嘛也是來不及嘛其實你也有個數字那你這個數字出來你是怎麼算的所以我們其他人的數字或高或低低的我們就可以拉高啊高的的話看是一個什麼樣的狀況這樣我們審查速度會不會比較快一點好 謝謝等一下每位那個李博弈好來"},{"start":27627.028,"end":27648.055,"text":"我想我們對第6條也有提出一個修正那在提出修正之前其實還沒有看到行政院的版本後來看到行政院的版本之後那我們有共同來提出一個修正動議我想我們依這個修正動議來做這個說明另外對於其他的說明的方面就是針對與部分工時以及"},{"start":27648.755,"end":27659.8,"text":"未來是不是要依照公務員待遇公務員調整的幅度來自動來調整來入法我們提出這一點也一併一併來討論謝謝"},{"start":27668.063,"end":27698.063,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":27698.523,"end":27717.828,"text":"這其實又去又還是某種程度在干預這個議員他自己運用助理的一個方式然後也會限制掉議員助理他的薪資的上限因為其實我們訂完之後變成說每個議員助理之後還是差不多就是領4萬多那其實跟原本的狀態是差不多的"},{"start":27718.228,"end":27746.281,"text":"那另外就是我希望內政部要說明的就是這個內控機制的部分就是還是要說明一下就這個定下去之後請議會就各議員助理分配的情形助理聘用的關係各項費用的支應情形建立內部機控機內部控制的制度這個到底是什麼要怎麼去控制各個議會到時候要怎麼去依循我覺得這個是蠻重要的那最後我也要"},{"start":27746.801,"end":27767.371,"text":"支持一下就是剛剛那個牛旭婷委員其實跟我早上質詢的內容都是有注意到說這個加班費如果加上去了結果沒有真的把加班費照顧到助理怎麼辦就是這個好像金額並沒有很多很多就是我剛剛早上有試算嘛就是每個議員之後加班費領到大概800多塊"},{"start":27768.291,"end":27778.993,"text":"那其實那這個到底有給沒給對助理來說其實蠻心酸的喔那還有部分工時如果可以放寬也是很好的這是這一條我覺得非常非常重要的意見謝謝"},{"start":27781.567,"end":27783.348,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":27802.757,"end":27817.767,"text":"因為也有議員我們說我們覺得來這裡一旦要修就要修到多長的好不好 因為我說只下一次30萬及我們的管理長發財現在一個問題就是說你差不多是發財你完全都沒有提供"},{"start":27822.954,"end":27851.28,"text":"因為我們總共有36個版本所以因為我們的版本先要大家取得一個公約書甚至在這個部份剛才馮璐說是不是先休息一下我們大家合作大家多年接受也符合行政單位大家用共同的提案修正提案大家共同提案這樣應該大家都可以接受"},{"start":27851.88,"end":27855.781,"text":"主席我還沒有被講到,我的跟人家不一樣有一個小部分。一起協商啊。"},{"start":27871.127,"end":27895.221,"text":"主席拜託一下,我的那個不一樣因為那個第6條其他的我都跟大家一樣要提高多少也都差不多我比較特別的是說我的版本是有鄉民代表的助理補助費為什麼?我簡單的講因為這個陳情也很久可是我們原來是沒有"},{"start":27896.434,"end":27910.696,"text":"我們現在談的直轄市議員跟縣市議員助理補助費是有然後提高但是鄉民代表助理費是沒有我現在要講我的理由因為我們很重要現在在推地方創生"},{"start":27912.218,"end":27937.992,"text":"從過去的社區營造我覺得鄉是很重要的一個單位鄉也有它的地方自治也有它的地方法規但是我覺得一直都沒有給他們助理費所以我們一直沒有辦法把基礎做好所以我就講這個重點因為鄉民代表劉建國跟我還有黃嘉斌我們都做市民代表上來的黃建斌然後鄉民代表還有助理"},{"start":27940.133,"end":27941.474,"text":"好 休息文章 大家寫一寫"},{"start":27965.413,"end":27965.433,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":27991.596,"end":27992.217,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":28013.508,"end":28013.848,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":28035.089,"end":28035.77,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":28058.484,"end":28058.904,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":28083.61,"end":28083.85,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":28102.517,"end":28124.002,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":28125.303,"end":28125.904,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":28146.005,"end":28147.626,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":28165.435,"end":28166.996,"text":"你用硬板 用硬板 要蓋 要蓋 蓋就好了"},{"start":28193.771,"end":28194.351,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":28222.91,"end":28250.333,"text":"議員會議員會議員會"},{"start":28250.593,"end":28254.135,"text":"現在驗滿了 台足3年增加18億元 增加驗滿25萬元 現時年增加840萬元"},{"start":28265.16,"end":28265.96,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":28297.265,"end":28297.626,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":28316.046,"end":28318.168,"text":"因為聯委員他整合的"},{"start":28339.804,"end":28357.261,"text":"議員會議員會議"},{"start":28361.032,"end":28387.671,"text":"議員會議員會議員會"},{"start":28388.472,"end":28388.492,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":28435.633,"end":28448.901,"text":"不過不過剛那個不過剛那個沒有沒有我們有一個我剛還要問一個修正狀況且你當初都覺得不完整發生什麼問題是到底你們說誰要拒絕他有完整的溝通就是這個結局已經通過了對一起就通過了但是"},{"start":28461.549,"end":28461.83,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":28485.891,"end":28486.431,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":28509.621,"end":28509.641,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":28538.992,"end":28539.012,"text":"議員．審查"},{"start":28561.228,"end":28564.09,"text":"明天真的假凍?趕快傳出來"},{"start":28588.147,"end":28593.949,"text":"他去問黨團的那個他去問黨團的那個他去問黨團的那個他去問黨團的那個他去問黨團的那個他去問黨團的那個"},{"start":28607.695,"end":28608.415,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":28629.406,"end":28629.426,"text":"議員．審查"},{"start":28653.411,"end":28653.831,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":28678.252,"end":28678.673,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":28695.18,"end":28696.101,"text":"結果怎麼樣?"},{"start":28696.101,"end":28696.121,"text":"含價"},{"start":28717.752,"end":28720.114,"text":"我們剛剛斷了一下,如果13就斷了"},{"start":28747.249,"end":28752.431,"text":"我們真的太多啦不是啦我們真的太多啦"},{"start":28774.617,"end":28774.637,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":28803.263,"end":28803.283,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":28827.9,"end":28827.92,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":28854.765,"end":28855.486,"text":"阿兵應該在抽菸吧"},{"start":28882.605,"end":28884.126,"text":"那個20是誰啊我來看一下"},{"start":28896.152,"end":28904.697,"text":"20是誰啊我說那個縣市議員給20最高是誰列的太高了真的太高8萬8萬弄到20太多了"},{"start":28911.018,"end":28917.62,"text":"我當兩屆都八萬人有人當兩屆一輩子都八萬人沒有我們不是五代五屆夫二屆那天就看我們國民黨打過一場這台運動"},{"start":28937.086,"end":28937.106,"text":"議員．審查"},{"start":28955.201,"end":28955.221,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":28982.023,"end":28982.543,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":29007.098,"end":29007.959,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":29031.854,"end":29032.674,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":29054.504,"end":29054.524,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":29076.973,"end":29077.773,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":29104.104,"end":29130.162,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":29131.271,"end":29141.933,"text":"不是啦,因為我說這樣,你這齁,你講實在,你如果來16萬,天內就加賺多少啊?這樣我...不是啦,剛剛那個16萬啊,不是啦,你跟他說我們都尊重你們,你們就來32分16,當我們都不遵守啊?"},{"start":29160.238,"end":29160.258,"text":"議員．審查"},{"start":29179.809,"end":29180.47,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":29200.145,"end":29224.241,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":29225.322,"end":29225.622,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":29240.774,"end":29240.954,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":29264.889,"end":29286.544,"text":"議員會議員會議員會"},{"start":29287.184,"end":29287.204,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":29314.937,"end":29321.324,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":29335.258,"end":29336.438,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":29360.623,"end":29384.974,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":29384.974,"end":29395.896,"text":"議員會議員會議員會"},{"start":29397.244,"end":29418.238,"text":"市長,我們在今天的訴訟中有送保證的司機,我們這樣還要一個一個去講保證麻煩,對不對?所以這兩個委員站都送保證,那些他們都至少大家有一段時間可以整理,但至少我們看怎麼樣的方式可以講說委員會有一個共識,至少讓他們擔當先生就不用再討論數字了,就討論一個情形就好,那他們如果要擔任我們也比較好下台,好不好?"},{"start":29425.183,"end":29426.004,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":29452.922,"end":29452.942,"text":"委員會議員會議"},{"start":29474.679,"end":29474.699,"text":"議員．審查"},{"start":29492.538,"end":29492.938,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":29518.207,"end":29518.467,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":29547.572,"end":29547.932,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":29567.134,"end":29567.714,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":29596.487,"end":29596.507,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":29615.094,"end":29639.326,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":29639.706,"end":29639.906,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":29660.913,"end":29682.329,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":29691.597,"end":29692.698,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":29721.873,"end":29722.541,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":29727.566,"end":29728.207,"text":"市長市長市長市長"},{"start":29757.729,"end":29764.974,"text":"將局?談判將局?當然不接受,怎麼可能接受?我再不接受說送錢當面不要,那要怎樣?這個叫沉默懲罰,他想說已經花了很多時間,不能直接給你送錢"},{"start":29778.309,"end":29780.29,"text":"前面也算有通過啦,不能說沒有通過對啊對啊對啊兩條"},{"start":29807.809,"end":29808.39,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":29855.047,"end":29858.989,"text":"各位委員 各位委員 運理協調的差不多了吧"},{"start":29862.979,"end":29878.471,"text":"應該大家都有共識了吧 喬惠委員我們要把它處理完畢好不好"},{"start":29889.099,"end":29890.439,"text":"明天的議程"},{"start":29919.686,"end":29940.358,"text":"各位委員大家辛苦了辛苦了好那我們針對第6項修正條文第6條我們各位委員大家現在要不要請議事人員先讀一下大家剛才就共識了沒有嗎"},{"start":29953.985,"end":29954.566,"text":"我沒問題"},{"start":29968.769,"end":29969.51,"text":"我們行政單位我們處長"},{"start":29997.789,"end":30025.039,"text":"針對我們公使的部分你來做說明一下好不好好兄弟我請我們次長來做說明好不好剛剛有跟這個內閥員說明過就是部分公使在界定上不容易那我們不建議這個列入這一次的修法因為這個會出問題因為我到底要界定你是加班一小時還兩小時你出去哪裡或幹什麼這個很難去界定所以我們不建議把他納入這一次的修法"},{"start":30026.567,"end":30034.454,"text":"我跟你講因為這個是我們黨團內部有開過會的啦那我們在這邊也不宜擅自做決定啦那如果有爭議的條文我建議就是保留讓黨團協商來做處理這樣至少有處理啦"},{"start":30043.851,"end":30050.837,"text":"主席,我發言一下,剛才政治說會出事,我們是不是要理清一下,他們就說他們有討論啊,會出事,如何出事,你如果說明清楚一點,不可以稍稍的以後,說不說稍稍以後不好,要用心計較,這樣,大家不敢這樣,好不好,再叫政治講一下,因為這種的,我覺得,"},{"start":30071.494,"end":30094.027,"text":"我們要整個要合情合理啦我再補充一下我們在地方上都很清楚你出去在這個時間上以後在核銷上一定有人會盯著你看說你到底這個人去兩個小時還是一個半小時或一小時四五分鐘你只要去核銷去出問題整個就會出問題"},{"start":30096.108,"end":30122.265,"text":"現在我們因為乍領或者是相關的這個違法的事項最近3年總共有25件有7件已經判刑確定有這個18件目前在訴訟當中那我們都不希望說這樣的一個制度讓我們的民意代表很容易去處罰雖然他是無心或有心不管但是我們不願意有這個機制讓他可以讓他有機會去誤處罰法這是我們"},{"start":30124.626,"end":30129.033,"text":"才建議說把這個部分公式把他納到這個修法裡面"},{"start":30143.396,"end":30145.817,"text":"第6條先保留,我們先討論第7條"},{"start":30174.578,"end":30188.407,"text":"我們先討論第7條還是要我們先協商嗎?我們第7條就先協商好不好?來,鴻祿鴻祿,協商就要由你代表"},{"start":30206.145,"end":30206.485,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30218.947,"end":30219.748,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30236.775,"end":30237.316,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30266.715,"end":30269.037,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":30295.097,"end":30295.417,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30305.964,"end":30334.599,"text":"議員會議員會議員會"},{"start":30335.651,"end":30350.077,"text":"第7條應該還好吧?第7條?第7條就是第一個年稅,所以其實大家都有公司的年稅,就是說7萬5千就一到事務費的基準去做,其實我一直在資訊中講一下貨物費用紀錄"},{"start":30359.1,"end":30360.181,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":30388.075,"end":30391.838,"text":"哎,只有星期五發假動耶,明天沒有。真的嗎?哎喲。"},{"start":30408.371,"end":30408.851,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30431.171,"end":30431.952,"text":"我們私底下加碼"},{"start":30446.469,"end":30458.997,"text":"我可以這樣說嗎?因為你們有你們的想法喔!我們還要找機會出席議員去讓議員,不是我們講真的啦!主委住在我們家,他想說他去參加"},{"start":30462.875,"end":30463.275,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30483.463,"end":30503.791,"text":"你現在是說公實的齁?對公實的我我也沒意見這我也沒提啊我沒提啊公實我們請助理你要立法他沒立法我們探議你要立法你要怎麼去領地其實有道理你看我都沒動我不敢動啦他沒在我們這裡做他在北圍做"},{"start":30513.642,"end":30514.184,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30527.659,"end":30528.16,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30557.239,"end":30557.259,"text":"議員：審查"},{"start":30574.11,"end":30585.457,"text":"是啊當然他還會換等一下換到你的政敵那邊就大麻了現在跟我們協商有啦他們在協商那牛我們小牛呢小牛沒有嫁婚吧是黃建斌嫁婚的我是去協助他們製的"},{"start":30601.457,"end":30609.622,"text":"叉管治療所以可以一直不動就提車震動嗎可以啊來不及提就趕快提車震動對啊"},{"start":30624.89,"end":30632.033,"text":"其實我真的覺得修法通過真的要很謹慎我們修法不要修那個魔靈兩口跟"},{"start":30650.461,"end":30653.506,"text":"部分工時我覺得那個那到底拿幾個題去溝通一下就好"},{"start":30662.719,"end":30669.606,"text":"我動都沒動這一些,我覺得我就動重點。有啦,今天36個,可能20個是我們的人提的吧。"},{"start":30680.797,"end":30695.421,"text":"對阿,所以阿,像他沒有來現場,沒有特別想部份使用全部都專職可是議員他也沒有管你一定要專職兼職阿我就搞不懂"},{"start":30711.013,"end":30712.174,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":30751.566,"end":30758.53,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":30768.166,"end":30789.514,"text":"議員會議員會議員會"},{"start":30792.432,"end":30819.667,"text":"議員會議員會議員會"},{"start":30820.865,"end":30821.526,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30838.242,"end":30838.262,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":30868.06,"end":30869.561,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30880.686,"end":30891.232,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":30896.795,"end":30897.115,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30916.496,"end":30918.217,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30935.222,"end":30936.283,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30950.549,"end":30951.049,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30987.863,"end":30988.064,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":31013.268,"end":31014.209,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":31028.866,"end":31051.983,"text":"你如果涵蓋在20%裡面是顧問公司的話那相對他等於是用顧問公司他不在助理裡面所以你現在用指揮 因為你是顧那顧用關係啊你也是顧用他 你用實心顧用他所以你變成指揮在助理的總委"},{"start":31057.066,"end":31065.829,"text":"我們沒有上線嘛因為有一些委員的版本是有上線嘛那我助理現在就說至少六人或是說至少幾人嘛我只有下線嘛"},{"start":31066.685,"end":31087.571,"text":"對阿對阿他剛才有說阿那現在多用嘛那現在多用就是說我如果說我有一些助理是可以用你們現在是容許他不一定按月就對了對就是因為如果說按月的話我最低薪資要27多萬如果說我可以有一些譬如說有幾個助理他是拿時薪的就一個小時兩百"},{"start":31088.471,"end":31088.952,"text":"總額已經確定"},{"start":31110.151,"end":31128.326,"text":"總有一天公了啦 總有一天公了 不能夠公了啦現在在講說 另一個部份你講話太沒意義一點嗎 還是太誇張一點沒有啦 可是他剛剛 我覺得他搞錯了 他剛以為說是不在這30萬裡面 啊我們一直是在這30萬裡面 可是不能理會分析嘛我覺得他有點搞錯了 請問一下"},{"start":31133.069,"end":31133.609,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":31151.035,"end":31155.619,"text":"我們可以接受比如說二分之一還是三分之一"},{"start":31175.049,"end":31175.069,"text":"委員會議員會議"},{"start":31197.957,"end":31201.058,"text":"好啦 我們寫一下你們再參考看看好不好"},{"start":31223.704,"end":31225.365,"text":"我會講要定上線還是定下線?"},{"start":31244.079,"end":31266.407,"text":"我們本來的立法就是說用部分工資領薪水不能超過這一包的二分之一啊但你說這個二分之一太多我們可以往下降?二分之一太多啦太多了好那往下降這ok這個是ok的因為我覺得部分工資也不能變主流嘛所以四分之一四分之一或什麼的嘛如果四分之一的話我們現在是六個人啊不是啦人數不管我們是總額嘛"},{"start":31267.347,"end":31274.572,"text":"你說用錢來算一共有8位助理的話不要有2位以上沒有他真的是用額度"},{"start":31275.239,"end":31283.562,"text":"用總額比如30萬的6分之1或是5分之1差不多那個狀態他用前期的控制我只想要講這段話我等了一個下午就知道了下午的那個記憶比較好"},{"start":31306.544,"end":31306.684,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":31333.357,"end":31334.178,"text":"5萬會不會太少?"},{"start":31349.48,"end":31353.221,"text":"30萬的六分之一我是說大概就六分之一五萬讓可以拼 會不會太少?"},{"start":31353.221,"end":31374.989,"text":"四分之一啦 因為四分之一啦 我們大約是八萬好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦"},{"start":31377.51,"end":31377.971,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":31402.883,"end":31427.818,"text":"如果假設你們用這個,因為你們是副主啊,你們要小心啊,因為白天跟晚上時間的薪水是不一樣的。謝謝。其實都是依照勞基法嗎?對啊,勞基法有幾倍的啊,晚上都幾倍,一點三、三倍啊。要算清楚,對,假日初期。因為自己後面已經有寫了嘛,不用勞基法,所有東西都要頒給你啊。"},{"start":31431.8,"end":31458.217,"text":"議員會議員會議員會"},{"start":31458.277,"end":31462.781,"text":"可是我們 但是我們當初是說這個 跟這個那現在如果再調的話 那兩天二十的話應該是"},{"start":31481.018,"end":31485.5,"text":"市長是我的?對啦你怎麼這樣說?我們就叫市長這樣說"},{"start":31510.729,"end":31527.36,"text":"因為一萬百分比算一算大概多少會增加一年增加12萬我就比年來的啦沒有啦沒有啦你現在算一萬嘛你算剩下一萬一年增加12萬對啊最後第三個問題應該OK啦"},{"start":31539.831,"end":31540.592,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":31557.641,"end":31558.161,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":31581.376,"end":31582.077,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":31603.817,"end":31629.922,"text":"來看你一下 看你一下你現在我們現在是規劃到六四五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五五"},{"start":31631.242,"end":31631.262,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":31654.885,"end":31662.689,"text":"16呢?你哪裡有資格去決定他們的薪水?好啦好啦我就不要堅持這個啦好啦好啦"},{"start":31689.381,"end":31699.905,"text":"好各位委員現在大家的協調好那現在我們的文字有做修改大家來看一下好不好"},{"start":31714.612,"end":31715.013,"text":"現在有了嗎?"},{"start":31715.981,"end":31716.461,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":31757.044,"end":31760.867,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":31774.394,"end":31780.098,"text":"各位委員在看修正。主席,不好意思。"},{"start":31787.113,"end":31812.823,"text":"各位委員在看的時候我是先肯定內政部也從善如流把這個日薪的一個部分給加進去那我們就是不超過這個總額的四分之一但是我還是拜託各位委員來共同看回來因為直轄市跟縣市議員真的他的服務員以及服務的人數以及相關的一個議事還是有所不同"},{"start":31813.743,"end":31823.774,"text":"那你現在變成是原本直轄市議員每個人每個月只有24萬你增加8萬變32萬那縣市議員一樣是增加8萬變從8萬變16萬那這樣會不會造成說有點沒有這個沒有看到說直轄市議員跟縣市議員的一個辛勞的一個不同"},{"start":31835.615,"end":31863.588,"text":"所以說其實以比例來講因為為什麼一開始直轄市議員是24萬縣市議員是只有8萬就是因為那個時候本來我們當初的設計概念就會覺得是說縣市議員當然都很辛苦但是就是說直轄市議員服務的範圍人數相對來講還是比較多那如果說我們這樣子齊頭市的增加其實這反而是有點虧待直轄市的議員啦所以我覺得說直轄市的議員32部分應該還是要再斟酌再多增加一些啦"},{"start":31866.543,"end":31894.622,"text":"所以我現在提出來我覺得是說大家真的應該要去考慮因為我們現在定下來這個是下一次再修正這一條說不定又是30年後啦所以我的意思是說大家既然在這邊我們應該要通盤的考量因為一開始縣市議員8萬直轄市議員24萬其實是差三倍喔其實是差三倍那現在這樣子調整之後變成只差兩倍這樣子其實有點奇怪不是"},{"start":31895.683,"end":31920.402,"text":"什麼叫進步很多我現在講的我現在講的理由是說應該是直轄市的議員略調增加的薪資的這個幅度應該要再高一點啦這個沒有幫誰講話說實在話大家也都有直轄市的執政大家也都有縣市議員對不對所以說我覺得應該是說大家應該要去做了解跟討論因為那個孟凱委員我要跟你報告"},{"start":31927.655,"end":31927.675,"text":"結束會議"},{"start":31942.611,"end":31949.418,"text":"好,那我們針對第6條修正條文好,那我們針對第6條大家的協商結果我請議事人員還有問題"},{"start":31984.575,"end":31988.317,"text":"你們都是高雄市議員出來的你們覺得這樣可以接受"},{"start":31993.459,"end":31998.472,"text":"這個不是喊價嘛我現在講是說你們依照你們依照你們現實的狀況去看啊"},{"start":32002.559,"end":32027.693,"text":"然後你增加我們增加到32之後國庫是增加了9000萬一年9000萬的支出所以我們要衡量整個我們今天一直在討論說村里長加呃呃為民服務費加好現在助理費加然後一路在討論的過程甚至協商的過程裡面我相信我們就不要再回頭又來挑戰我們這個是高雄市議員上來的這個"},{"start":32029.013,"end":32038.156,"text":"這個並不是回頭我們現在都還在第6條我們現在都還在第6條我們現在都還在第6條絕對沒有回頭你現在都還在討論第6條你們剛剛第6條就沒有通過就代表說這還有意見嘛那我現在在講的是說現在在講的是說我們是不是應該要做一個完善的考量來解決這題目"},{"start":32053.48,"end":32055.302,"text":"新進來的委員有一點點互相尊重好不好"},{"start":32080.383,"end":32082.204,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":32100.334,"end":32100.735,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":32124.185,"end":32126.186,"text":"委員：完整會議委員：完整會議"},{"start":32165.337,"end":32180.384,"text":"主席因為這個加的都不是加在自己身上第一他加的是一個總額總額也是分配到助理這邊你今天加的總額比較多是可以讓議員多聘請幾位助理"},{"start":32181.244,"end":32194.101,"text":"並不會說有一個助理就特別當然那就看議員自己去分配但是我們現在沒有把它限制嘛那我現在只提出來的是說是直轄市議員跟縣市議員都很辛苦那只是說對於直轄市議員來講是不是這樣子是有足夠其實我覺得"},{"start":32198.752,"end":32225.78,"text":"多幾萬塊的重點在於是說是不是符合實際的一個需求那大家都有曾有當過直轄市議員的經驗那你應該是直轄市議員這邊來講嘛不然你外界傳出去就說難道我不喜歡用政黨分配那難道是民進黨不想要給直轄市議員多一些助理費用嗎我覺得不用這樣講嘛所以我現在才講是說你現在都加8萬塊那是不是足夠如果對縣市議員也許"},{"start":32227.581,"end":32231.825,"text":"主席,在這我講一下,我講個不夠啦,因為你自己要做議員的時候,你也要自己去承擔自己的責任啦,因為長久以來大家最信在這裡,大部分都做過"},{"start":32252.315,"end":32259.599,"text":"當分議員起來：不知道議員會做立法會的訴求：要合理：說實在的我們也知道他沒有夠：所以今天要跟大家有 會知道高點坐到現在要討論這問題說實在大家也可以看40萬50萬也沒關係：要不然你未來這次要去選擇：跟這些年輕人一起討論的"},{"start":32282.172,"end":32285.174,"text":"黃孟楷 黃委員"},{"start":32309.894,"end":32330.167,"text":"來你今天這要這樣講那我就直接講來吳佩奕委員的版本36萬那個莊瑞雄委員的版本36萬羅美玲委員的版本36萬啊你們自己民進黨都已經有提出來有到36萬那你現在在講說我們是怎麼樣"},{"start":32333.369,"end":32353.723,"text":"他沒來然後你就不來我現在支持莊烈雄版本可以嗎?我支持羅美玲版本可以嗎?我支持吳佩儀委員版本可以嗎?就是真的地方有需求那另外可不可以尊重我的發言時間嘛我現在就講是說各委員都有委員的版本有到36萬那我現在是講是說"},{"start":32357.302,"end":32372.483,"text":"我現在在講話我現在在發言各委員都有不同的版本那我現在在講是說有沒有真的實際的需求那還有很多人都會比較台灣跟新加坡會覺得說哇新加坡為什麼這個政治相對憐憫"},{"start":32376.104,"end":32404.829,"text":"那台灣會成人也是因為你嗎?民進黨8年執政不是嗎?所以你有沒有好意思講現在執政黨是誰不要這樣子我說為什麼大家會覺得是說新加坡相對嚴明就是說新加坡他們給的相對給公務同仁也好給這個助理同仁也好他們的薪資相對來講都是比較高一點的那為什麼?就是防止他們去有貪念或是胡作非為嗎?所以如果說你都給的起香蕉你都請著起猴子嗎?"},{"start":32405.569,"end":32433.416,"text":"所以你照理講你應該是如果說我們今天的修法我就應該是放比較寬一點其實說真的這一些都不是為我們個人你可以去查我也沒有說我的這個什麼兄弟姊妹在議員啊所以說重點再一次說我們要看到的是說是不是這一次的一個修法是可以符合大家一個需求有符合嗎?莊瑞雄呢?吳佩儀呢?劉美玲呢?他們的"},{"start":32437.389,"end":32461.784,"text":"所以你現在所以你現在是民進黨團如果說民進黨用這樣的態度我真的沒有辦法討論一下我們都很理性的希望說能夠來做出討論那你行政部門也可以來表達意見我們今天都希望我我自始至終我都希望說今天是能夠送出委員會的"},{"start":32463.154,"end":32485.951,"text":"我們也從開始的時候主席在討論我剛剛第三條第五條我們都協助主席來共同把它變成會診制一個版本喔那我現在只是對於是說直轄市跟縣市真的確實還是有所差別嗎那你直轄市如果說多兩萬多四萬對於整體的一個財政是不是請行政部門這邊再說明一下那你直轄市這邊能夠負擔嗎"},{"start":32488.662,"end":32516.483,"text":"還有中央等一下討論第7條更是深水區等一下請中央也這邊回覆一下你們在提出來你們的版本的時候有沒有跟地方政府溝通過來請說你請問處長處長針對直轄市的議員我想這個案子齁在這個修正草案在擬議的過程當中我們都有跟地方去溝通過"},{"start":32517.697,"end":32545.939,"text":"不過當然相對的地方也都會講就是說他這個對要去修這樣的這個內容他沒有意見但是講到錢我講過了大家都說他沒錢但是我要特別講就是說跟各位委員報告就是說在這個制度上我們還是要維持那個制度不能因為說類似像這樣的修法然後都要把這個財政的都丟給中央那如果這樣還有哪一種不能丟給中央"},{"start":32547.583,"end":32548.043,"text":"吳孟楷委員 所長"},{"start":32577.387,"end":32590.198,"text":"可以吧?可以接受吧?不好意思這個因為講到第7條的部分就是中央跟地方那你們能不能講一下中央跟財政困難的部分是大概有多少個縣市啊?"},{"start":32592.386,"end":32618.84,"text":"因為今天我的質詢你的時候也是問了這一題啊那你剛剛我說主計處會針對財政困難的部分你們會專案來處理嘛對不對是那大概是哪幾個縣社會專案來處理這個這個中央補助報告委員這一部我手上沒有這些資料這個可能財主那邊比較有準備一下好不好我這邊大概只能跟委員報告就是說因為現在我們就有財政等級的劃分嘛"},{"start":32619.66,"end":32638.925,"text":"現在本來就1到5級那後面有幾個縣市都在5級他的財政狀況是比較不好的當然現在他的等級到底他能不能負擔這個這個我們要跟財主再去討論那這一份資料我們再請財主或是財主單位你來說明一下好不好因為等一下雖然現在談到第6條可是同樣的問題第7條也是一樣這個財政的問題到底是中央買單還是地方買單好謝謝"},{"start":32652.338,"end":32677.645,"text":"各位委員好主委總署報告這部分的話原則上依照依照現在現行的制度原則上相關的那個就是像議員的費用還有村里長事務補助費有關職俠師跟縣市政府的部分我們大概都是按照內政部的標準統一設算然後納入基本產生支出然後就基本產生收支就是不足的部分在於補助"},{"start":32678.385,"end":32698.644,"text":"那目前因為最新的狀態要114年的其實我們都會每年會重新估算但是若以113年度我們133年度的狀況來講目前22個地方政府沒有差短的部分的話原則上就是六都然後還有像新竹市還有金門縣目前這八個"},{"start":32700.285,"end":32715.834,"text":"那至於114年的部分可能要是未來修法的狀況還有我們其他比如說財源的部分再來決定就是說那個收支超短部分不行因為我們今天已經會談到這個部分你們要不要趕快去準備資料讓我們看到一下好不好"},{"start":32717.895,"end":32740.572,"text":"對阿你不能夠說這個法我們正在修的時候你告訴我114年還要按照這個法然後來你這樣子沒有一個依據嘛我們現在大家都在討論你們今天要來就是已經清楚知道會有幾個條文幾個核心的深水區那你們不準備資料來不行的今天召委已經說要處理到最後了所以你們趕快去準備好嗎謝謝"},{"start":32742.593,"end":32763.221,"text":"那現在趕快去準備好不好紅木開委員針對第6條主席那這樣子我們是不是第6條先保留我們先第7條吧"},{"start":32772.432,"end":32777.82,"text":"主席再者我還是強調我們今天討論的是不得超過多少額度"},{"start":32786.991,"end":32805.326,"text":"那事實的依照通過之後依照各縣市的一個狀況各直轄市的一個狀況他們去做編列我們訂的是一個母法嘛他們直轄市的議會他們自己去編列所以說如果說真的有一些直轄市他認為是說他有助理費用沒有用到那麼多的話他也可以不用編列到那麼多啊"},{"start":32806.848,"end":32831.625,"text":"但是你不能說這樣子你今天因為這一條我還是強調今天真的沒有說是哪一個部分而是我們現在討論的是因為這個已經幾十年沒有討論了那你如果說大家已經累積那麼久其實從第9屆就已經提出來要修第9屆沒修第10屆沒修到現在第11屆了那如果說你這樣子的變動根本"},{"start":32832.779,"end":32832.799,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":32856.5,"end":32858.061,"text":"各位委員先進因為本席有提版本"},{"start":32882.13,"end":32901.119,"text":"那事實上在上午的詢問當中、質詢當中我對次長要求的大概兩個部分首先我們很不希望讓外界認為我們是在幫地方民意代表爭取加薪現在在網路上很多批評其實我們是在幫助理要求合理待遇這是很清楚的"},{"start":32901.519,"end":32922.433,"text":"那這個拜託內政部一定要對外要很清楚的說明不是幫地方民意代表加薪是為地方選民服務的助理爭取合理待遇那我認為是合理那合理的話包括剛剛幾位委員說的包括說你這個因為物價等等那我比較著重的重點是因為本來是24萬對"},{"start":32924.835,"end":32925.035,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":32952.584,"end":32974.339,"text":"6都的縣市議員他們的助理他的負擔更重嘛因為相較之下6都的人口密集幅員較窄那非都的地方幅員較廣雖然人較少但是現在幾乎都是按照人口議員產生席次的人口選民數去換算所以過去呢是3比1那現在呢已經調到了2比1那我就覺得這個方向是對的"},{"start":32975.18,"end":32990.905,"text":"只是說我不是要求絕對金額我認為未來應該拉近都跟非都這些對於縣市地方民意代表他的助理他的合理服務因為他的服務的辛苦工作不是人越多他越辛苦"},{"start":32991.405,"end":33018.824,"text":"是因為服務員遼闊雖然人相對少但是呢應該給他合理的一個去為選民服務所必要的支出去制定這樣的情況所以我就兩點請求因為我知道草野協商剛剛關於這一條似乎有談到一個32跟16這比原來的也比原來的24對8我覺得已經拉近了都跟非都地方民意代表助理的待遇了但是呢應該要合理化應該要"},{"start":33020.738,"end":33024.927,"text":"盡量的拉齊啦那我對於絕對金額我沒有做訴求絕對金額訴求過度"},{"start":33029.909,"end":33052.056,"text":"會讓外界誤以為我們是要加薪水其實我要強調的是合理待遇不是加薪水合理就是說基於助理的付出他的辛勞應該給他能夠相應於包括物價指數在內包括他的服務的區域在內相對應的這個待遇這才是幫助理爭取他的權益的方法"},{"start":33053.156,"end":33080.252,"text":"後續可能後面還有包括原住民區跟非住民區的村里長的這些那是後面要談論的那個我沒有意見雖然屏東也很多我們不管是原住民區或非原住民區村里長都很辛苦所以我也是支持他們的事務費應該合理的調整但是我要強調的如果以原住民地區的村里長或原住民地區的這樣的一個差距其實反而是地廣人稀的助理他需要的待遇是應該要做調整"},{"start":33083.646,"end":33099.795,"text":"好謝謝各位同仁他在溝通他在溝通再休息5分鐘"},{"start":33114.48,"end":33128.746,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":33817.065,"end":33820.006,"text":"第6條我們都會先保留我們先討論第7條"},{"start":33822.028,"end":33840.996,"text":"好謝謝主席各位委員大家辛苦了今天討論的很久我針對第7條提出修正動議針對美會委員的21人所凝聚地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務費補助的條例第7條的修正草案提出修正動議大家可以看到後面的附件"},{"start":33841.996,"end":33864.469,"text":"簡單來跟大家報告主要就是針對這個村里長平常這個行政事務非常繁忙所以就內政部現在提出給了這個7萬5的部分我這邊不管在內政委員會質詢或在財政委員會都溝通很多次我希望說這一部分我就是堅持可以免納所得稅因為這些錢第一個這些錢就給里長的部分這7萬5真的不是很多如果"},{"start":33869.371,"end":33869.832,"text":"拜託內政部部份"},{"start":33899.071,"end":33923.77,"text":"不妥。第二個還是要拜託就是說這個有關於這個金額的部分是不是拜託中央主管機關是不是來支應地方因為剛剛今天早上在質詢的時候很多委員也在擔心他說就是給這些比較沒有經費不足或比較貧困的縣市因為這個真的很不明確因為本身我在新北市新北市的里長都很認真"},{"start":33924.671,"end":33952.929,"text":"如果真的說新北市不納到裏面的話我們也要新北市政府早一點去瞭解這樣的情況他可以早一點來編裁員不然看的到吃不到真的是非常的可惜以上希望列入會議紀錄謝謝好謝謝我們張志隆委員所提出因為張志隆委員也是我們的會計師所以對於我們的前面所得稅這部分他非常有研究再來我們的高津召委"},{"start":33955.571,"end":33956.112,"text":"村里長事務補助費"},{"start":33971.324,"end":33999.518,"text":"行政院的版本是5萬塊然後在原住民族地區是增加10%剛剛我們議員已經增加20%了所以本席就建議在我的修正動議裡面大家看一下就把它改為20%然後是由全國公務人員各種加級年度通案調整的時候要比照他通案來調整幅度的調整"},{"start":34000.738,"end":34023.731,"text":"調整後的事務補助費的由實施日期由內政部來公告然後第二個部分就是剛剛志倫委員在講的那個稅的部分我相信美會委員還有其他民進黨委員都同意這個部分然後第三個部分我要提的就是剛剛講到了中央主管機關編列預算還是地方政府編列預算那等一下我們可以來討論這個部分好謝謝"},{"start":34025.848,"end":34032.712,"text":"主席,在這裡剛才我們的兩位委員有說過,因為這個要補稅不要補稅,我覺得第一點,你是為了他的,我覺得這叫人補稅,沒理啦"},{"start":34047.279,"end":34072.359,"text":"要不然在你當中我們會拜託政治及財政的看要如何處理比較好因為我有收到剛才高金樹召委說的原住民及20%我覺得這大家都沒有意見因為長久以來看到原住民的民意代表會合不來"},{"start":34074.557,"end":34099.383,"text":"因為我覺得改革的時候,我們一定會支持的啦,以上好,謝謝委員,來,立法院好,謝謝主席這邊就是在第7條我的意見都跟大家大同小異我只是要特別說因為原本讓原住民地區村里長每月5萬元的事務補助費我是原本說是再增加10%啦"},{"start":34100.743,"end":34123.233,"text":"但是剛才我們前面第5條已經把那個為民服務費已經改成20%了所以我這個部分也會跟著就是做20%的這樣的一個調整好謝謝對我會去簽好我就去簽那個版本謝謝其實跟各位委員報告其實里長的部分里長本來過去他的薪資他的事務費本來就只有"},{"start":34128.235,"end":34144.748,"text":"所以說你調聲你一定會訪問外面社會大眾都還會接受但是你議員跟我們立委就一樣你一調聲寬感就真的我們真的有壓力啦謝謝所以報告這個召委這個"},{"start":34155.529,"end":34156.07,"text":"請次長說一下報告立委"},{"start":34174.229,"end":34194.196,"text":"因為我們現在的村里長的名目是村賊慰勞金那以現行的直轄市的議員或者縣市議員那或者是鄉鎮市民代表的部分都是村賊慰勞金那現在目前都是有繳稅的"},{"start":34196.761,"end":34216.339,"text":"所以我們是不是建立一下這個村里長的部分那我們希望是朝向他不需要再去繳稅那所以這1.5個月的部分是不是我們就不要用這個春節慰問金的這個這個名稱那我們是不是改在春節期間就來加發這一個春節加發這一個事務補助費"},{"start":34222.045,"end":34228.147,"text":"市長針對台財稅第881923106號文村里長的事務費就是春節加發的部分他本來就"},{"start":34245.552,"end":34253.021,"text":"是作為村里的這個推廣之中所以同意也是比照財政部的這個75年10月14號的財財稅第7571030號的規定免納所得稅所以您剛講的部分大概就是以這個部分對"},{"start":34260.529,"end":34288.082,"text":"然後另外就是剛剛講的那個財源的部分就是剛剛也講了嘛我們那個財主單位講說其實剛剛算起來的話等於有14個縣市是財源是有困難的所以到時候你這個部分當真的這個我們今天的法案通過的時候你財源如果沒有的話這14個縣市要他們怎麼辦所以我覺得這個剛剛我們也有提出修正動議就是希望還是要由中央主管機關編列預算補貼地方政府"},{"start":34289.807,"end":34311.669,"text":"我想這一部分就財源的這一部分因為我們還必須跟這個財主單位去討論嘛你說今天我們說也不可能我特別有講過就是這些財源要中央來自應的話我們要通盤去考量整個各縣市的財源的收支情形所以說我可能要跟委員報告一下這一部分我們必須還要跟財主單位再去討論"},{"start":34313.38,"end":34333.333,"text":"因為他剛剛初步講的嘛說六都之外只有新竹市跟金門是沒有問題的那這樣算起來就是還有14個縣市是有問題的嘛所以說可能這個資料要出來之後我們才能知道中阿轉的機關有沒有辦法去補助給地方讓地方能夠支應這個財源支出啊謝謝委員"},{"start":34338.953,"end":34346.72,"text":"好,那我們現在先休息三分鐘,我們行政單位跟那邊來協調,來溝通。我們那個財政,剛才是那個財政部的嘛,主計總處嘛,主計總處的資料來了沒有?"},{"start":34358.001,"end":34358.602,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":34377.937,"end":34378.298,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":34397.9,"end":34397.92,"text":"議員．審查"},{"start":34414.939,"end":34415.519,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":34431.124,"end":34431.504,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":34455.826,"end":34456.467,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":34469.483,"end":34469.803,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":34486.045,"end":34486.746,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":34511.869,"end":34538.933,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":34542.653,"end":34542.673,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":34573.147,"end":34573.367,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":34605.946,"end":34618.35,"text":"你現在改成事務補助費加發春節的部分就對了,是嗎?就是春節加發?對,不好意思"},{"start":34621.391,"end":34621.911,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":34642.169,"end":34644.37,"text":"社會福利保險師"},{"start":34663.695,"end":34691.681,"text":"議員會議員會議員會"},{"start":34694.169,"end":34707.462,"text":"來拿麥克風講一下你們內政部本來預計行政院版本要怎麼寫這一條在這一個部分你們又要有免稅的精神然後又其實是加發1.5個月嘛 對不對那你們本來寫是這樣寫嗎對"},{"start":34713.598,"end":34733.024,"text":"包委員本來是寫春節慰勞金阿因為春節慰勞金就會跟現在的直轄市議員縣市議員鄉鎮市民代表他們會一樣所以就會納稅那今天就把這樣的名目把它換掉就不要說這個是為了他放他進客人口袋然後在那邊講說阿這個就是要慰勞他或什麼"},{"start":34733.578,"end":34734.359,"text":"我剛有提那個"},{"start":34761.232,"end":34779.828,"text":"衛福部的請教過的那個二代健保也不用繳齁所以我就希望說就這個特別要小心就是讓里長這個七萬五千塊的部分可以完整的拿到對然後現在以其數額以新台幣五萬元為基準計算之這個部分會不會讓人家覺得"},{"start":34789.468,"end":34810.232,"text":"你最主要就是說,我們拿去一戶半月啦,跟他一戶五萬塊啦,所有一戶半月,跟他七萬五啦,是不是這樣?對啦對啦,隨著公告啦"},{"start":34815.249,"end":34840.225,"text":"要調整的時候隨著軍公教會調新對在調請問一下你現在是以數額是以新台幣五萬嗎那是因為現在的事務費是五萬嗎那如果下次事務費又調成五萬五的話我說如果是這樣對所以這個地方就又要再修了嗎所以說我的意思是說你要寫五萬嗎還是說要以那個"},{"start":34842.125,"end":34844.947,"text":"他春節?他怎麼會放在口袋?他現在每個月都放在口袋"},{"start":34859.249,"end":34861.752,"text":"每個月五萬塊都放在口袋不是這樣解釋不是這樣解釋"},{"start":34880.991,"end":34881.731,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":34902.284,"end":34913.567,"text":"因為現在大家都認為是1.5個月的這個加發這個事務春節事務補助費嘛你現在寫以數而已新台幣五萬就會讓人家覺得只有五萬啦而不是七萬五啦"},{"start":34918.106,"end":34918.306,"text":"最後這個"},{"start":34947.068,"end":34970.301,"text":"期數而以新台幣5萬元為基準計算支的那個部分把它拿掉然後寫是以第一項第一項為主啦好不好可以嗎來我們文字我們文字來修一下來這個麥克風那麼小聲哪一支比較大聲"},{"start":34972.312,"end":34985.296,"text":"我們大家都要 喔 好像差不多捏 要吼的耶 這是怎麼樣來看一下 來看一下我們 未來如果說事務補助費有再調整的話他也一併調整 就不會說再 你會變成是說"},{"start":34988.379,"end":34988.399,"text":"第7條"},{"start":35004.808,"end":35030.533,"text":"我們這個村里長的鄉公所參照軍公教人員年終工作獎金發給規定編列預算於春節期間另發給事務補助費,對比其數額以第一項也就是一這個七萬五一七萬五千五元的事務補助費數額為基準算支這樣的文字大家就比較沒有疑慮了對不對對這樣比較清楚了"},{"start":35034.793,"end":35059.907,"text":"其金額以第1項事務補助費數額為基準計算支來,罰物的部分有沒有在不要到時候你就略有意見了說法說明的部分我們是不是加上免稅要不然一般人可能不是那麼清楚吧"},{"start":35064.85,"end":35087.242,"text":"來來來我們防禦部份來看一下這個文件因為他事務費本來就沒得補了啦所以現在就是怎麼會改這個名稱就是今天如果說春節那裡一定要補水所以才改這個名稱啦所以一定不用的啦"},{"start":35090.735,"end":35090.755,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":35123.561,"end":35123.581,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":35147.171,"end":35168.018,"text":"請問一下剛剛每個縣市的那個財源的部分那張資料可以印給我們嗎好那我們現在繼續開會喔"},{"start":35172.274,"end":35174.275,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":35195.227,"end":35196.408,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":35222.442,"end":35222.843,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":35246.99,"end":35247.69,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":35272.576,"end":35273.097,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":35291.152,"end":35311.834,"text":"議員會議員會議"},{"start":35311.994,"end":35313.635,"text":"大陸市的地方有困難"},{"start":35349.281,"end":35351.744,"text":"那你既然中央提出來你就應該中央來去做一個全額的分配"},{"start":35377.38,"end":35379.763,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":35386.408,"end":35386.428,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":35411.755,"end":35411.955,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":35423.651,"end":35424.252,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":35448.148,"end":35448.888,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":35471.842,"end":35474.944,"text":"修正草案等37案"},{"start":35497.277,"end":35497.698,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":35514.987,"end":35516.567,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":35536.676,"end":35544.558,"text":"你可以看明年編那你明年編還是你們執政那你們執政你們明年總預算把它放進來阿好啦真的要表決成績賣弄吉吉爛喔"},{"start":35567.02,"end":35591.427,"text":"我支持你!我支持你!你不要這樣!我支持你!最近有什麼呢?美惠姐看起來很漂亮喔!我支持你!中央要買單的代謝民意代表負擔好!支持!支持!好!你看他也支持!不要陳其邁支持他就支持算了!"},{"start":35597.312,"end":35621.476,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":35627.694,"end":35637.178,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":35644.58,"end":35651.762,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":35671.226,"end":35673.288,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":35697.904,"end":35698.766,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":35710.214,"end":35711.035,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":35728.575,"end":35744.582,"text":"議員會議員會議"},{"start":35746.123,"end":35747.063,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":35790.441,"end":35795.243,"text":"美會議委員站。對,我本來就是這樣啊,要叫人訂准。看要怎麼修。"},{"start":35813.713,"end":35815.373,"text":"中央要請客要買單啦"},{"start":35821.616,"end":35821.976,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":35855.319,"end":35859.88,"text":"現在是中央買單真的我們從早上一直失手到現在很血汗這裡"},{"start":35885.66,"end":35885.8,"text":"主席"},{"start":35905.538,"end":35905.778,"text":"只是"},{"start":35935.916,"end":35958.749,"text":"主席我建議是不是我們條文兩個黨團的委員都可以接受的條文就先寫出來如果說這樣可以的話今天就做成結論就可以確定嘛那行政部門因為今天次長他剛剛就講說沒有被授權我覺得這樣不可能說委員在這邊審查然後那如果沒有被授權那這樣子就請部長來啊"},{"start":35960.54,"end":35988.09,"text":"那之後就要請部長來啦不然我們這樣子變成是說大家沒有一個溝通的如果部長沒有辦法決定那這樣就要請秘書長來啊但是主席我們是不是先把條文給我們兩黨能夠接受的條文就先把它給寫下來因為這樣子我們才能夠確定嘛那其實剛剛第6條你也寫了嘛所以說我們就都寫下來那如果說OK的話大家就是確定這樣的版本啊這樣好不好"},{"start":36003.193,"end":36014.843,"text":"這個各位 這個我們這個條文該怎麼寫 我們拜託內政部跟主席這邊看怎麼去用我們等一下 那我們後面的趕快來處理啦 還有兩個"},{"start":36016.573,"end":36017.713,"text":"現在我們繼續討論第8條第7條政定之一"},{"start":36040.785,"end":36051.591,"text":"趙偉你累了嗎?所以我們的工作同仁、行政單位不好意思大家辛苦了"},{"start":36068.265,"end":36069.306,"text":"徵定第7條至1條文"},{"start":36086.297,"end":36088.139,"text":"民意代表規範無幾值?"},{"start":36107.301,"end":36121.85,"text":"那他沒有所談的或懲處的這些東西都不需要因為他也有兼職所以他就沒有所謂的退職金或撫恤金的問題這個可能要跟委員報告一下因為他跟公務人員又不太一樣跟地方首長也不一樣"},{"start":36124.213,"end":36152.172,"text":"當然你實務上你基本上你做了超過5屆的里長年紀也超過65歲基本上你當然就是一輩子都在做這個事情了嘛對不對你怎麼可以講說他有個兼職或怎麼樣呢所以事實上幫我們爭取一些福利我想是有必要的我們今天早上在答詢的時候我們講嘛就是說要做我們就一次到位那這其實是蠻多基層里長的一些需求希望可以被成全那剛剛次長有講嘛就是說這個理論上來講他將選舉選出了民意代表可是過去其實過去曾經在鄉鎮市市長的時候他們其實也有相關的一些機制啦"},{"start":36152.332,"end":36152.452,"text":"來那個次長"},{"start":36181.506,"end":36208.729,"text":"我覺得啦村里長他的他領的是事務補助費還是領的是薪水我剛剛特別講他是無給子的所以他不是薪水嘛那既然不是薪水就沒有後面的所謂的這個撫恤金或者退資金的問題因為以現行的法令他本來就是沒有這樣的規範"},{"start":36211.177,"end":36230.75,"text":"我是建議各位委員我們想一下雖然村里長你說20年65歲但很多民意代表連地方的議員村民意代表他們其實也都很多符合這個資格那如果這個村里長有這樣那其他的我們怎麼辦這要思考一下沒有"},{"start":36239.181,"end":36239.862,"text":"總要有一點點進步 以上"},{"start":36265.114,"end":36286.372,"text":"針對第7條之一的條文當然還有沒什麼意見我們現在修的這一條是地方民意代表費用跟村里長事務費補助條例嘛地方民意代表已經明確的非常清楚在第二條裡面就講的是包括鄉鎮市民代表副主席代表等沒有包含村里長"},{"start":36288.054,"end":36309.691,"text":"現在7條1有兩個委員的版本我們不堅持陳昌明委員版本就沒有堅持說把地方民意代表納進來但是村里長的部分其實是大家可以討論的嘛那村里長的部分其實他相對來講他的定義你剛也講就是說地方首長是有這樣的一個這個退職金嘛"},{"start":36310.251,"end":36336.802,"text":"所以我就說授權中央他去訂立相關的一個機制那你們也可以去算一下甚至我不知道說現在有沒有資料目前以我們現在的這樣的一個這樣的一個資格滿20年跟65歲有全國有多少村里長委員這一部分我手上沒有那如果說沒有要不要去算一下或什麼這樣子你才能夠抓一個大概啊對不對"},{"start":36337.967,"end":36347.532,"text":"我覺得這樣子其實合理為什麼因為對於里長村里長來講其實他一生等於是都奉獻而且村里長做的事情就是真的你說"},{"start":36348.935,"end":36369.632,"text":"幫助政府做事發投票通知單防疫的時候然後清潔李林的這個巡視其實這都村里長做啊所以他跟內政部一定是最好的朋友最好的夥伴啊那我們現在只是講是說在這個部分你去算一下還是說這個條件要不要再調整我覺得這個可以提出來討論"},{"start":36371.033,"end":36397.314,"text":"那你應該去算出來說現在全國這樣子會有多少人符合這個資格那我們再來講嘛但你不要說一竿子就直接沒有好不好委員這樣子啦齁我們因為這個涉及到退這個補習金或者退職金的問題是不是因為今天前續部有來是不是請前續部說明一下好不好來前續部麻煩好前續部"},{"start":36403.261,"end":36427.168,"text":"委員各位與會我們這邊是全序部因為這個其實主要還是涉及到地制法還有補助條例的這個規定我們尊重這個內政部的一些這個意見 謝謝這樣就是沒問題啊政治"},{"start":36433.09,"end":36436.033,"text":"村里長有可能有領別的薪水"},{"start":36459.554,"end":36476.843,"text":"有可能他可以兼職所以村里長他有可能65歲他有別的退職金他有可能有別的那跟這個我們定下去之後那可能多做一些討論啦這個也不要去影響到村里長的權益"},{"start":36478.396,"end":36501.318,"text":"因為我們也不能把所有的項目都全部把它包進來啦因為這個影響的比如說我們這個村里長到底要不要去他這個幾年之後去領這個退職金或甚至於這個其他費用我覺得這個要大家再去形成共識要不然的話如果我們每一個項目一直都在增加那增加不完"},{"start":36503.394,"end":36525.868,"text":"因為這個我們上一次檢討這個東西也是好幾十年以前了嘛所以我才講嘛既然要檢討我們就把它一次到位嘛免得到說過了幾年又來一次對不對大家又要從早上9點一直搞到現在對不對大家也蠻辛苦的所以你剛剛我覺得講的有部分道理就是說如果他有監職他應該被排除那我覺得這個透過立法的法條把它納進去這個我覺得可以接受也合理啦但是我覺得本體上還是該給一點獎勵因為實務上我們都清楚嘛"},{"start":36530.371,"end":36530.892,"text":"少數的里長可能有兼職"},{"start":36552.688,"end":36576.87,"text":"但是大多數一定都是專職還有這個裡面的標準是任職滿20年就是5屆等於是通過5次的民意的考驗那一個地方的里或那一個地方的村都認為說他是適合的那既然這樣的話他又有通過民意的考驗他又有任職那麼長還有退職金的發放地方首長是不是一次性"},{"start":36577.884,"end":36598.887,"text":"是一次性嘛那一樣嘛我們現在也講是一次性嘛所以說他也不是退休金的概念你剛剛有委員一直講說啊里長沒有薪水那我們講如果說那是退休金那就那就可長可久那就很麻煩但現在退職金是一次性所以我認定還比較屬於這是榮譽的概念"},{"start":36599.608,"end":36613.329,"text":"比如說你65歲然後你真的就是卸下里長的這個職務之後政府感謝你過去這個付出幾十年的付出對鄉里的付出所以我給你一個榮譽退職金一個榮譽的獎勵我覺得這是榮譽的概念啊"},{"start":36617.734,"end":36641.582,"text":"委員我想這個因為如果假設是光是村里長的部分那我們剛剛特別有提到所有這個民意代表無給職的部分也都會比較要去討論這個退職的問題不過我法條就沒有寫這個東西啊那我們原來也沒有寫說村里長我們就沒有把民意代表納進來啊我們現在就沒有討論地方民意代表我們現在只有討論村里長啊所以這沒有自肥啊還在場有村里長是不是"},{"start":36644.164,"end":36669.404,"text":"沒有 這不是製賊部分 我們現在真的就是希望是說感謝 這個要討論要整個制度來討論而不是當你把這個村里長抓出來的時候去討論村里長的部分 是 不只有村里長的特性是介於民意代表跟行政末梢之間嘛我講其他人都是民意代表民意代表民意代表有些規則嘛對不對 但里長的角色就不純然是民意代表可是如果單純從服務的角度上來講那縣市議員也是一樣在服務啊"},{"start":36669.929,"end":36670.769,"text":"我們現在對村里長的定位是他接受這個這個"},{"start":36692.153,"end":36712.808,"text":"市公署的鄉鎮市公署的指揮監督來交付公務是公務的所以他是不是行政末梢他是行政末梢嘛對不對所以你當然是應該比較靠行政的角度來思考他的待遇你如果講說每一件事我們都要推到尾那沒完沒了因為我們今天其實本來有列在法條裡但我們願意讓補什麼出國考察費啊為民服務費我們都沒有堅持嘛"},{"start":36713.628,"end":36741.563,"text":"總要一進一退總要有一點點進展是不是所以我覺得這一條已經相對來講對政府的負擔已經是最小的而且它也它是它不是所有人都有你要能夠五連霸不見得五連霸現在連續做五任年紀又要夠高這個相對對你財政的負擔也是比較小的小花一點小錢但是可以照顧基層的里長我認為是非常划算好不好我想這一部分我們還要必須要來這個這個我們先把那個資料先收集好再來在這個公司"},{"start":36742.734,"end":36759.927,"text":"主席,在這要跟我們正式說一下,因為在很久的年紀,有提起說我們里長退休的時候,要有退休金,後來實施沒多久的時候,有一些爭議又開了,我說"},{"start":36763.61,"end":36763.79,"text":"主席"},{"start":36777.853,"end":36787.359,"text":"所以說,這種人要說大家要這樣處理的時候,我們沒有反對,只是說你現在的顧問,你又一直服務費,為了這個千萬元,想要偷竊那年,現在又現在又要退休金,跟退休金你要怎樣去處理,怎樣去用,來政治回答一下"},{"start":36800.256,"end":36822.811,"text":"委員我是這樣想因為所有任何法條我們也不可能一次全部把它這個修完那所以為什麼說法條必須要滾動式去檢討的原因在這裡那我們不必這個現在還沒有大家有共識的法條部分我們不需要急現在就把它去修啦我覺得要形成社會共識以後我們再來修"},{"start":36823.393,"end":36842.552,"text":"那個政治,在這,我是覺得說提供的也沒有過分的要求啦,因為等我一來看到里長的身口,我們本來我是說,要怎麼可以合理化,我覺得這個是不是你們要去研議一下,因為大家都說實在的"},{"start":36846.575,"end":36850.759,"text":"我想這個村里長很辛苦這個我想大家都都是持正面來看待"},{"start":36869.042,"end":36877.48,"text":"那這一部分我們可以再來去檢討因為我想這個議題也不是今天才出現的議題這應該以前就已經有出現這樣的議題我們會再來做檢討"},{"start":36881.408,"end":36911.408,"text":"6屆6屆6屆"},{"start":36911.588,"end":36911.828,"text":"謝謝謝謝抱歉"},{"start":36940.476,"end":36967.156,"text":"吃人嘴軟喔沒關係因為要提供我婚姻的雜訊所以要提供婚姻的食品我要支持所以兩天加起來他們也會支持所以互相讓你說一下我都背不開"},{"start":36968.26,"end":36975.042,"text":"我不敢吃,我不敢吃,他要說這樣,我這樣,不要,我不敢吃,真的,謝謝你,不要,不要,不要,我阿嬤大嘴啦"},{"start":36989.27,"end":37000.376,"text":"現在孩子們還沒回阿嬤那裡小孩子們先唱我們的歌都會回阿嬤那裡這樣子阿不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要不要"},{"start":37020.338,"end":37020.758,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":37027.416,"end":37029.898,"text":"主席主席主席主席主席"},{"start":37069.564,"end":37069.584,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":37085.47,"end":37086.951,"text":"立法院第11屆第12會期內政委員會議"},{"start":37107.819,"end":37107.839,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":37132.693,"end":37138.48,"text":"現在我們增淀第7條之一先行保留我們現在處理第8條"},{"start":37143.403,"end":37156.772,"text":"第8條的部分因為在原住民的議員第5條裡面在這個付表裡面修正為增加20%也就是原住民的直轄市議員4萬變成4萬8然後原住民的縣市議員2萬變成2萬4這個部分已經通過了所以我在第8條裡面就不堅持了"},{"start":37165.698,"end":37194.659,"text":"再來就是村里長的事務費原住民村里長的事務費在第7條的第1項裡面也增加了20%就是原住民的村里長是5萬塊變成6萬塊這個部分都有被處理到了不管是原住民的議員、直轄市的議員、縣轄市的議員或者是我們的村里長的事務費在第5條跟第7條都有被處理了所以呢在第8條我就不堅持好不好以上做一些補充說明大家辛苦到現在真的"},{"start":37195.439,"end":37199.061,"text":"我再次感謝民進黨的美惠、博裕、黃婕、紅鹿、國民黨的孟凱、小妞、宇珍、志倫、建廷、建兵、我們現在民進黨6.50,大家好好都有共識。以上補充說明,謝謝。"},{"start":37224.414,"end":37233.58,"text":"好謝謝第8條就為此現行條文好謝謝好那我們繼續討論第9條來請放開56頁"},{"start":37254.559,"end":37257.802,"text":"好,那第9條就維持現行票案"},{"start":37275.968,"end":37280.192,"text":"好,那我們處理第10條。第10條是什麼?幾月幾號上?上?看最後的結果嗎?欸?阿沒有,阿是什麼時候要發話?"},{"start":37302.791,"end":37330.14,"text":"主席第10條就請我們次長第10條部分是事情日期我們就114年1月1號了同意那第10條就照我的版本通過好不好好修正同意吧"},{"start":37334.248,"end":37334.868,"text":"第6條和第7條一起討論"},{"start":37359.212,"end":37383.427,"text":"那我們選擇單位第7條之一政店的條文第7條之一等文字版本一起出來我們看一遍嘛現在就是三個文字版"},{"start":37386.555,"end":37409.511,"text":"6771文字版本出來我們看一遍好那我們現在是欸孟楷孟楷那我們先休息5分鐘好不好好那我們現在再休息5分鐘喔阿現在我們議事人員換個便當好不好謝謝吃不下去啦政府要賭他啦"},{"start":37412.796,"end":37415.917,"text":"第一次吃晚間便當年真的吃飯喔"},{"start":37428.302,"end":37449.428,"text":"獎勵"},{"start":37449.764,"end":37450.284,"text":"對阿!對啊!對啊!"},{"start":37481.441,"end":37481.961,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":37494.446,"end":37494.587,"text":"主席"},{"start":37514.941,"end":37516.182,"text":"下個會期總預算的時候11點都有"},{"start":37539.154,"end":37554.543,"text":"下一個會期總預算11點08分那種都有然後大家都爆一堆預算書在那邊拍啊總預算我有試過那種晚上跑完清晨再回來審9點多然後跟人家換班"},{"start":37565.909,"end":37571.051,"text":"最後拍!最主要政府補助阿公阿嬤的車阿嬤的車阿嬤的車阿嬤的車阿嬤的車"},{"start":37601.067,"end":37610.725,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":37611.516,"end":37611.977,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":37634.731,"end":37635.531,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":37650.981,"end":37673.37,"text":"議員會議員會議員會"},{"start":37675.87,"end":37676.791,"text":"立法院第11會議"},{"start":37714.683,"end":37717.686,"text":"沒了沒了沒了"},{"start":37733.038,"end":37733.058,"text":"議員：審查"},{"start":37759.289,"end":37760.53,"text":"謝謝書記長壓正 來加油"},{"start":37781.065,"end":37782.166,"text":"教育文化委員會暫時結束了。"},{"start":37798.404,"end":37825.981,"text":"欸?"},{"start":37827.562,"end":37850.962,"text":"趕快吃啦趕快吃啦 早餐也要吃 早餐也要吃 早餐也要吃 早餐也要吃 早餐也要吃 早餐也要吃 早餐也要吃 早餐也要吃"},{"start":37852.863,"end":37861.586,"text":"拜託你這樣子說蠻多的他沒有櫃子的啊我倒覺得這樣比較好不然的話我說實在有點類似說我們補助第7屆然後...沒得了沒得了"},{"start":37873.609,"end":37880.632,"text":"我叫他們選我叫他們選的選我如果說我們要去參加要坐10點40人藝人跟我講說百分之百不會去我說我們金錢也有再來藝人說還能跑差不多12點46就很不錯了可以啦"},{"start":37900.962,"end":37900.982,"text":"議員．審查"},{"start":37930.419,"end":37930.439,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":37967.567,"end":37979.576,"text":"好 我們各位委員現在我們先處理第7條我們協商的條文是不是請我們議事人員先讀一下"},{"start":37985.215,"end":37985.738,"text":"全部限度嗎?"},{"start":37986.994,"end":38014.843,"text":"第7條村里長由鄉鎮市區公所編列村里長事務補助費每村里每月新台幣5萬元與原住民族地區之村里每月再增加20%並因於全國公務人員各種家籍年度通案調整時比照其通案調整幅度調整調整後之事務補助費總額及實施日期由內政部公告之村里長因植物關係因由鄉鎮市區公所編列預算支應其保險費並得編列預算支應其健康檢查費其標準均比照地方"},{"start":38015.583,"end":38035.234,"text":"民意代表鄉鎮市區公所編列前項保險費預算應包含投保保險金額新台幣500萬元以上傷害保險之保險費金額村里長出有正當理由未能投保或未足額投保傷害保險外與當年度檢據支領保險費時期單據應包含投保保險金額新台幣500萬元以上傷害保險之保險費"},{"start":38036.235,"end":38063.814,"text":"村里長由鄉鎮市區公所參照軍公教人員年終工作獎金發給規定編列預算與春節期間另發給事務補助費其金額以第一項事務補助費數額為基準計算支該支出由內政部編列預算支應支宣讀完畢主席沒有意見啦還有意見"},{"start":38075.125,"end":38075.605,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":38089.616,"end":38112.824,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員"},{"start":38113.084,"end":38130.864,"text":"並因於全國公務人員各種加緊年度通案調整時比照其通案調整幅度調整。調整後之助理補助費總額及實施日期由內政部公告之。以前向助理補助費補助聘用之助理直下是議會議員每人應至少聘用6人,先是議會議員每人應至少聘用2人,均與議員同進退。"},{"start":38132.525,"end":38159.743,"text":"議員得聘以日薪計支助理其日薪累計支月總支出不得超過前項助理補助費用總額四分之一前項助理適用勞動基準法之規定其勞工保險費全民健康保險費勞工退休準備金加班費不休假加班費資遣費及職業災害補償等依法令應由雇主負擔費用部分由議會於不超過第一項規定總額20%內編列預算支應支並得以索領補助費制額度比照軍公教人員年終工作獎金酌給春節慰勞金"},{"start":38163.946,"end":38185.239,"text":"議會應就各議員有關第一項第二項助理補助費總額與分配情形助理聘用關係及第三項所列各項費用之指引情形建立內部控制制度。宣讀完畢宣讀完畢主席先看一看"},{"start":38193.913,"end":38198.677,"text":"我們現在處理第6條協商條文如果大家都沒問題就剛剛先讀這協商條文通過沒問題"},{"start":38206.593,"end":38208.974,"text":"現在我們先讀第7條條文之一"},{"start":38238.562,"end":38240.222,"text":"市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長"},{"start":38269.735,"end":38290.027,"text":"好,那我們現在那個條文還沒印好,我們現在先休息一下。好,我們先來休息。蔣偉 休息一下,你休息一下。我本來要說大家先看一個,有意見再說,待會再分。"},{"start":38293.866,"end":38294.246,"text":"主席"},{"start":38324.485,"end":38325.866,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":38341.314,"end":38342.575,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":38363.298,"end":38363.438,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":38392.966,"end":38393.287,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":38406.815,"end":38421.561,"text":"這是什麼?看來啦沒問題就沒問題啦阿你幹嘛?阿你沒被責啦?不用吧?阿現在就宣布不當了對不對?這個應該要..."},{"start":38434.066,"end":38445.87,"text":"就是退籍後嗎?還是只要年滿就給他表?你自己的意思應該是說不管有沒有退籍,只要你滿這個條件,就給你表?就資深裡的表?所以這樣,但是"},{"start":38459.134,"end":38465.88,"text":"加在每年的優秀自身里長表揚大會裡面就好了。"},{"start":38475.047,"end":38475.387,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":38502.528,"end":38522.223,"text":"有40分的嗎?有的有的有40分的嗎?40分到底幾分?到底喔?9點10分10點13分沒有啦10點13分沒有啦10點13分"},{"start":38528.393,"end":38529.273,"text":"還是病表揚?雞還是病?"},{"start":38553.53,"end":38553.93,"text":"終於終於"},{"start":38580.277,"end":38606.61,"text":"其實大家就看這個上面就如果確定就可以了也不一定一定要印出來阿好啦你印出來啦主席不好意思我看應該大家都有共識麻煩主席第7條之一請先讀協商條文請各位委員有沒有意見第7條之一"},{"start":38608.939,"end":38626.792,"text":"第7條之一村里長任職滿六屆且年滿65歲者應給予慰勞金及表揚其額度及知己辦法由內政部定定之宣讀完畢好宣讀完畢請各位委員"},{"start":38628.806,"end":38635.289,"text":"我要請問一下 這條也是適用於每年的84年1月1號喔來 我現在請處長回答1月1號嘛1號是適用嘛好好好 那各位大家還有沒有意見好 沒有意見就條文通過喔好"},{"start":38661.47,"end":38668.034,"text":"委員徐欣穎等提案修正第3條照徐欣穎委員及劉建國委員等修正動議通過"},{"start":38685.981,"end":38707.707,"text":"委員陳穎等提案修正第5條、委員陳書悅等提案修正第5條及護表。照第5條護表修正通過。第6條、第7條、增訂第7條之一照協商條文通過。"},{"start":38709.059,"end":38716.967,"text":"第8條維持現行法條文第9條維持現行法條文第10條照吳啟明委員等修正動議通過宣讀完畢"},{"start":38736.793,"end":38754.085,"text":"復旦協議復旦協議已經先讀了復旦協議已經先讀了復旦協議已經先讀了復旦協議已經先讀了復旦協議已經先讀了復旦協議已經先讀了復旦協議已經先讀了復旦協議已經先讀了復旦協議已經先讀了復旦協議已經先讀了復旦協議已經先讀了復旦協議已經先讀了"},{"start":38761.332,"end":38774.578,"text":"補正宣告第5條條文照原條文護表維持原條文護表照修正動議通過很厲害欸你有在靠直播時間抓得真好你時間抓得真好我以為你要說更長我以為已經在7點"},{"start":38789.496,"end":38796.401,"text":"因為給了多的額度也給了部分工資可以交代過去來"},{"start":38812.901,"end":38815.443,"text":"他說不要讓自己加班,就反過來加班"},{"start":38829.073,"end":38829.373,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":38850.546,"end":38851.687,"text":"沒有要處理的事"},{"start":38871.822,"end":38871.842,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":38899.367,"end":38900.007,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":38934.531,"end":38955.627,"text":"好各位委員我們的各位委員我們附帶結議就不處理照剛才協商結論通過請各位有沒有異議沒有異議本次會議審查通過之條文相關法之用於授權本席議事的演整理"},{"start":38957.233,"end":38975.988,"text":"那討論事項．地方民意代表費用支給及村里長的事務補助費條例第6條修正草案等37案．已並案審查完盡．擬計審查報告提報院內討論"},{"start":38980.851,"end":38985.353,"text":"請問在場委員需不需要經過黨團協商?"},{"start":38985.353,"end":39005.181,"text":"不用那不需經過黨團協商那本案與院會討論時有本事與召集委員齊名做補助說明那本日會議到此結束"},{"start":39006.348,"end":39006.628,"text":"明天繼續開會"},{"start":39032.84,"end":39033.881,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":39050.133,"end":39050.673,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":39078.371,"end":39078.676,"text":"本集完"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}