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11:53:28","會議時間":"2025-01-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「產業創新條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員林岱樺等18人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等29人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員何欣純等23人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、本院委員邱議瑩等16人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案。\n七、本院委員蔡其昌等18人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案。\n八、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n九、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「產業創新條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員鄭正鈐等19人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(第一案及第十一案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查)\n【1月15日及16日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.531593750000003,"end":13.969718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.44159375,"end":18.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.184093750000002,"end":20.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.563468750000002,"end":43.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.682218750000004,"end":45.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.39096875,"end":59.93721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":60.274718750000005,"end":60.477218750000006,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.477218750000006,"end":69.30284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.28159375,"end":71.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.27284375,"end":77.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":77.75721875,"end":92.03346875000001,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.17346875000001,"end":88.27034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.92409375000001,"end":90.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.03346875000001,"end":98.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.42909375,"end":101.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":102.81659375000001,"end":103.77846875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.28909375,"end":103.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":104.11596875000001,"end":104.65596875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.94284375000001,"end":105.36471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":105.36471875000001,"end":105.39846875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":105.53346875000001,"end":105.56721875000001,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.56721875000001,"end":105.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":105.65159375,"end":108.14909375,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.66846875,"end":106.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":108.23346875,"end":117.48096875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.22409375000001,"end":114.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.64971875,"end":118.86471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.42159375000001,"end":124.56846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.88909375,"end":129.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.27221875,"end":141.05534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.81471875,"end":143.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.82284375,"end":150.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.65721875,"end":154.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.90534375000001,"end":156.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.08659375000002,"end":158.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.28471875,"end":167.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.00471875000002,"end":189.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.31346875,"end":206.36159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.56409375,"end":207.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.48784375000002,"end":209.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.66909375,"end":212.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.47034375,"end":247.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.13534375,"end":224.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.41346875000002,"end":225.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.91471875000002,"end":231.26909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.97221875000002,"end":241.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.40159375000002,"end":262.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.58721875,"end":248.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.49221875,"end":269.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.37284375,"end":269.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.38971875000004,"end":269.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.67659375,"end":280.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.13909375000003,"end":280.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.89846875,"end":281.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.35409375,"end":286.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.29846875000004,"end":292.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.8290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帶話回去我再轉告我們部長是 因為本來本席是很希望是直接跟部長就教 到底什麼教育影響有限來 那國發會副主委委員好"},{"start":157.31,"end":171.155,"text":"賴清德總統在選舉的時候就來到本席的淡海新市鎮並且也講說淡海科學城新北123那其中淡海科學城裡面就是我們新市鎮二期一的計畫現在150公頃的土地"},{"start":173.456,"end":189.845,"text":"那我們也看到是說國土署現在在做這個相關的盤點那但是國發會跟經濟部要來製作產業的一個帶動那目前啊本席這兩天因為有預算的關係也有請國發會的主委國發會的同仁來這邊來說明啊但都還沒有進度啊"},{"start":190.405,"end":209.077,"text":"甚至連最基本的期程先期計畫可行性評估甚至我們問是說你到底有沒有可行性計畫來先去做研究未來我們是要往AI的人才引進比較軟體的設備還是說讓整體的還是硬體的方向沒有一個方向"},{"start":209.721,"end":228.122,"text":"好 跟委員報告因為這不是我主管的業務不過我大概知道說其實我們的六大區域的產業跟生活圈裡面的確有把這個您剛才說的淡海科學城對 放在裡面可是因為北部的"},{"start":228.422,"end":235.826,"text":"我們北部有一個地位我忘了那個名稱那個裡面這個科學層的確在裡面可是因為這個計畫剛剛才因為我們上位的指導計畫剛剛才核定那接下來因為我記得是應該是經濟部會做一個主導的單位"},{"start":248.113,"end":269.054,"text":"經濟部主導對然後他會規劃一些細部的內容所以可能目前還沒有辦法像那麼明確的跟委員報告可是接下來一定會有一個具體的基礎副主委我只提醒啦兩個部分第一賴清德總統來到新北都講說新北123淡海科學城對"},{"start":269.815,"end":292.851,"text":"卓榮泰院長在淡江大橋視察的時候也講說我們要把後壁變前院甚至提說北部最好的產業園區條件兩個空港桃園空港跟台北港就是淡海科學城既然都已經院長跟總統都有這樣的一個宣示的話我們國發會跟經濟部速度不能慢吧是"},{"start":293.331,"end":321.695,"text":"要跟上對就是的確一定是在那個規劃的範疇內委員放心那的確我們可能腳步要加快計劃兩個部分一個是期程一個是經費所以本席也要求就是說國發會這邊要讓本席看到以及讓地方看到你的計劃的期程到底在哪裡以及你要投入相關逐年編列的經費這一點部分是不是可以請副主委事後指示同仁再給本席相關報告"},{"start":322.615,"end":338.77,"text":"不過這個計畫基本上是 因為我們六德區域各有主政的部會 這個是經濟部主政那我們是負責上位規劃 我們會跟經濟部一起來 次長 熟不熟悉你看 我每一次問內政部國土署 國土署說是經濟部跟國發會問國發會 國發會說是經濟部來 那經濟部 打起來吧"},{"start":344.755,"end":370.593,"text":"如果交給我們 我們就來規劃了好啦本席要的是一個進度地方期待很久但是我們地方更重要是要看到的是時程規劃不用畫大餅可是讓我們知道說未來每年每年逐步具體的時程我想這才是我們地方真正需要的發展好不好請給本席相關的資料好不好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:47:15.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:47:15.426000+08:00","text":"主席謝謝，麻煩請經濟部次長和國發會副主委。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-15T11:47:15.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:47:25.050000+08:00","text":"經濟部連次長、國發會高副主委。","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:47:25.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:47:57.671000+08:00","text":"次長，我先請教，前兩天媒體報導，川普總統即將就任，世界的經濟、政治局勢，大家也都在看，當然川普總統有很多言論，其中講到風電的部分，那大家就去問我們經濟部郭智輝部長，郭智輝部長居然講他任期才4年，影響有限。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:47:59.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:48:01.762000+08:00","text":"次長，認同郭部長這樣講嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:48:01.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:48:14.566000+08:00","text":"我本來想說今天是部長要來，我想請教他是用什麼樣的一個邏輯思考判斷，針對美國新上任的總統，他會直接說人家「任期4年，影響有限」？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:48:15.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:48:22.889000+08:00","text":"是看衰共和黨不會再繼續執政，還是認為美國總統的政策影響全球不大？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:48:23.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:48:32.848000+08:00","text":"臺灣身為全球的供應鏈也好，或者在產業的一環裡面，我們可以這樣子忽視嗎？次長。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:48:32.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:48:38.894000+08:00","text":"我覺得任何的一個國際上的改變，我們身為國際的一環，都要戒慎恐懼地好好做評估。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:48:40.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:48:42.376000+08:00","text":"是，淨零碳排是全球的趨勢。對。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:48:43.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:48:44.337000+08:00","text":"但是川普總統有川普總統的想法，我想……","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:48:44.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:48:47.599000+08:00","text":"他有他的想法，但是我們有我們的既定政策。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:48:48.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:48:59.343000+08:00","text":"是，可是我們會去跟人家講，人家總統的影響力有限，經濟部有做過評估川普總統的影響力達到多少？有嗎？沒有。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:48:59.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:49:03.387000+08:00","text":"沒有，所以部長也沒有找次長討論？","quality":1},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:49:03.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:49:12.115000+08:00","text":"我們只有說國際的情勢是怎麼走向，然後我們國內的政策是怎麼走向，我們要按照原來的步驟這樣往下走。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:49:12.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:49:22.901000+08:00","text":"所以次長，我真的還是誠摯呼籲，經濟部是我們國家經濟發展的火車頭，部長的話真的不要讓大家捏一把冷汗。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:49:23.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:49:40.560000+08:00","text":"我不知道次長跟部長的溝通到底順不順暢，但最重要的是，如果部長都這樣子脫韁野馬地，然後隨便說人家總統的任期影響有限，我真的會感到非常擔憂，這一點拜託帶話回去。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:49:41.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:49:42.301000+08:00","text":"我再轉告我們部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:49:42.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:49:48.345000+08:00","text":"是，因為本來本席是很希望直接跟部長就教，到底什麼叫「影響有限」。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:49:48.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:49:49.786000+08:00","text":"再來是國發會副主委。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2025-01-15T11:49:49.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:49:51.207000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:49:52.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:50:16.861000+08:00","text":"賴清德總統在選舉的時候就來到本席的選區淡海新市鎮，並且也講說淡海科學城、新北一二三，其中淡海科學城就是新市鎮二期一的計畫有150公頃的土地，我們也看到國土署現在在做相關的盤點，而國發會跟經濟部要來做產業的帶動。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:50:18.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:50:44.057000+08:00","text":"這兩天因為有預算協商的關係，也有請國發會的同仁來這邊說明，但都還沒有進度，連最基本的期程、先期計畫、可行性評估，甚至我們問到到底有沒有可行性計畫先去做研究，或是未來是要往AI的人才引進，比較偏向軟體的設備、還是硬體的方向，目前都沒有一個方向。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2025-01-15T11:50:44.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:50:58.036000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這不是我主管的業務，不過我大概知道其實六大區域的產業及生活圈裡面，的確有把您剛才說的……","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:50:58.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:50:58.577000+08:00","text":"淡海科學城。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2025-01-15T11:50:59.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:51:10.806000+08:00","text":"對，放在裡面，可是因為北部有一個定位，我忘了那個名稱，這個科學城的確在那裡面，可是因為這個計畫上位的指導計畫剛剛才核定，接下來我記得應該是經濟部會做一個主導的單位，它會……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:51:23.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:51:24.234000+08:00","text":"又經濟部主導？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2025-01-15T11:51:24.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:51:36.306000+08:00","text":"對，然後它會規劃一些細部的內容，所以可能目前還沒有辦法那麼明確地跟委員報告，可是接下來一定會有一個具體的結果。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:51:36.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:52:00.946000+08:00","text":"副主委，我只提醒兩個部分，第一，賴清德總統來到新北，都講說新北一二三、淡海科學城；卓榮泰院長在淡江大橋視察的時候，也講說我們要把「後壁」變「頭前」，甚至提說北部最好的產業園區條件、擁有兩個空港（桃園空港及臺北港）的，就是淡海科學城。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:52:01.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:52:07.831000+08:00","text":"既然總統及院長都有這樣宣示的話，國發會及經濟部推動的速度不能慢吧？是。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:52:08.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:52:08.651000+08:00","text":"要跟上？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2025-01-15T11:52:09.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:52:15.517000+08:00","text":"對，的確是在那個規劃的範疇內，請委員放心，我們的腳步可能要加快。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:52:17.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:52:19.640000+08:00","text":"計畫有兩個部分，一個是期程，一個是經費。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:52:19.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:52:36.674000+08:00","text":"所以本席要求國發會要讓本席及地方看到你們計畫的期程在哪裡及逐年編列的經費，這一點是不是可以請副主委事後指示同仁再給本席相關報告？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2025-01-15T11:52:37.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:52:46.604000+08:00","text":"好，不過這個計畫基本上是……因為六個區域各有主政的部會，這個是經濟部主政，我們是負責上位規劃，我們會跟經濟部一起……","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:52:46.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:52:48.205000+08:00","text":"次長，熟不熟悉？","quality":1},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:52:48.205000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:52:50.467000+08:00","text":"委員，因為這個案子我沒有接觸到……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:52:50.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:52:53.210000+08:00","text":"我每一次問內政部國土署，國土署說是經濟部及國發會；問國發會，國發會說是經濟部。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:52:53.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:52:53.750000+08:00","text":"經濟部擔起來吧！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:52:59.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:53:00.896000+08:00","text":"如果交給我們，我們就來規劃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2025-01-15T11:53:00.896000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:53:02.997000+08:00","text":"確定啦，那個單位是他們。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:53:02.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:53:05.099000+08:00","text":"本席要的是一個進度。好。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:53:06.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:53:21.550000+08:00","text":"地方期待很久，但是更重要的是地方要看到時程規劃，不用畫大餅，可是要讓我們知道未來每年逐步具體的時程，這才是我們地方真正需要的發展，好不好？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2025-01-15T11:53:21.550000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:53:22.871000+08:00","text":"好，我們會搭配國發會一起來合作、來做規劃。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-01-15T11:53:22.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-15T11:53:25.593000+08:00","text":"請給本席相關的資料，好不好？好。謝謝。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-15T11:53:26.093000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:53:27.521571+08:00","text":"謝謝，請回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-15T11:53:27.821571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:53:31.821571+08:00","text":"黃國昌、黃國昌、黃國昌，黃國昌不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-15T11:53:32.121571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:53:39.264429+08:00","text":"登記發言委員除不在場者之外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-15T11:53:39.564429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:53:46.707286+08:00","text":"委員林德福、林岱樺、顏寬恒所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-15T11:53:47.007286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-15T11:53:55.578714+08:00","text":"書面質詢及未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}