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各位好"},{"start":5.393,"end":32.038,"text":"這個剛才提出報告的有關的國安局局長跟國防部長他所論述的重點本席在這邊表達認同但是認同並不代表我們了解今天我們的報告一共有八份報告各個單位都有都是合格言而治講他所認為的重點請問在場的哪一位同仁"},{"start":32.984,"end":60.973,"text":"能够把这八份汇集成一张图表显示海揽图在哪里前面刚才罗委员讲的是示意图那么很多该做的事情过去没做经过这件事情发生了以后我们如何精进今天谈的是解套方案是应变方案是备原方案第一个我请教就是14条海揽的细部图请问速发部您知道吗细部图精准位置图我们手上有"},{"start":63.956,"end":91.65,"text":"我們非常清楚因為在速發部的10樓就有這個NCCSC那所有的海欄的狀況都有即時的資訊那這個細部圖也都在即時的資訊裡面那這14條海欄修復簽約是由中華電信簽的不一定那有多少約 幾個合約14條海欄簽約修復合約有幾個修復合約是由各不同的擁有者去處理的"},{"start":92.506,"end":110.697,"text":"那各擁有者的合約你有嗎因為有很多是國際海欖我們不見得會有修復的合約我們會有沒有聯外的合約當然有修復合約啊國際海欖你要看啊你們的合約修完了以後甚至拿到國立大學請有關海研的單位再幫你們再review你知道嗎委員"},{"start":115.676,"end":135.554,"text":"那個海嵐如果真的中斷的話也是由電視也來負責維修那他們會聯絡海嵐的船來做維修他聯絡就是要合約啊合約裡面要講什麼時候船會來啊我們在治安維護防護就是在安全防護計畫中有有陳述各電衣業者他們後續的維修的狀況"},{"start":136.935,"end":158.831,"text":"給各位質詢講到一個最重要的關鍵就是這一個會期一年來我一直強調我們的政府包括從國防部到國安會到各部會你要有一個共同圖像共同圖像是一個資料庫但是你要建立一個平台就瞬間的時間產生的狀況大家看到的資訊是相同的"},{"start":159.832,"end":168.55,"text":"剛才裡面提到了你有用低軌衛星做這個備援那彎外部衛星總共多少顆啊"},{"start":171.452,"end":191.562,"text":"萬衛星的數目還是接收器的數目?衛星多少顆?衛星大概有650顆,因為它數字是浮動的對,650顆衛星可是12個軌道,那麼每一個軌道有多少顆?通過台灣有24小時有多少顆?每一次通過的時間有多少?然後地面有多少接收站?頻寬有多少?773個"},{"start":193.883,"end":203.691,"text":"政府拿掉700个只有73个给民间那做海揽的备员理想很好但是是不够用因为我们现在还在跟其他的"},{"start":204.804,"end":226.65,"text":"還在談判嘛所以這裡面的限制因素就是說你的傳播速度這個OneWeb的傳根本影像根本無法分配所以你只是維持手機通訊那中華電信如果微波的中斷現在外島是靠中華電信微波來支持如果海纜中斷那麼這個海纜中斷呢不管是惡意無益或者是意外事件"},{"start":227.27,"end":234.597,"text":"你可以要布海欄尤其是在近岸布海欄你可以要求他埋一公尺决深而不是在深海的海欄里面"},{"start":236.554,"end":263.874,"text":"報告委員講的都是都是行家的都是行家那事實上包含的我們我們都有要求在大陸棚那中華電信在這邊也應該很清楚就是所有在大陸棚海嵐都是深埋在水底下至少海平面下至少10公尺5公尺以下到20公尺的區間那我曾經接受過許多次的國際媒體的採訪事實上要把"},{"start":264.474,"end":289.716,"text":"海嵐割斷需要有三個意外第一個意外就是因為所有的海嵐圖是公開的公開的目的就是為了要防止商船或漁船在海嵐的地方下錨中華電線也有系統就是當你的ACS你的傳輸太慢然後你接近海嵐的時候我們都會示警這些公開的資訊是為了防止意外的產生但是"},{"start":290.777,"end":305.883,"text":"所以第一個意外就是如果你要割斷海卵你必須在海卵的地方附近下毛下毛以後第二個意外呢你必須開動船隻的引擎因為正常的情況下船隻下毛以後不會開動引擎那你開動引擎"},{"start":306.863,"end":324.381,"text":"那你發現你開動引擎又下錨你又繼續前行這才有可能會把海欖割斷所以你必須要有三個意外那而且海欖的所有的海欖公司在近海處在大陸棚他都會做深埋這都是為了保護海欖的安全那所以我們現在所面對的問題並不是一個"},{"start":327.284,"end":343.781,"text":"因為你需要這三個意外這顯然是一個這三個意外實在是太困難了所以這顯然不是一個正常的情況我剛剛提到現在我們在不管是各部會做這種意外事件的當值的時候"},{"start":344.522,"end":368.268,"text":"你要有一個共同平台共同圖像然後大家都可以用GIS都可以用AIS所以至於這個船根據IMO的規則每條船有七個代碼所以你點進去知道船東船籍掛國旗還是租賃裝貨在哪些貨發行位置全部都有所以你發現一個船持續在那邊做不正當的行為的時候"},{"start":369.048,"end":382.893,"text":"已經開始有預印了但是一般的圖來講你並不知道你只是看到海面你沒有看到海參所以說像剛剛您講的不管是衛星 微波 海纜它通訊傳播速度完全不同"},{"start":384.91,"end":398.244,"text":"99.5靠海南其他只是備援幫不了大忙那斷了以後馬上要根據合約外商的傳過來要多久這個時間要國安會要能掌握國防部要能掌握我們再看下一張圖"},{"start":400.098,"end":417.553,"text":"這個剛才前面的羅委員就顯示了可是這上面沒有水深啊我給各位我經過校證把水深套上去你就發現他這個船為什麼要走呢因為他的毛可能只放了150公尺然後他如果要顯示他是一個故障船他要掛旗"},{"start":419.656,"end":440.509,"text":"你不管是挂Yankee、Romeo、Delta都代表不同的现况这个是执法可以依据的然后你用无人机或监控系统你看到他的毛在那边这个船呢两节速度在那边乱移动我就上去领检那规定可不可以可以立法规定啊日本已经规定了新加坡韩国也规定了"},{"start":441.505,"end":461.68,"text":"所以基礎設施的維護是全國的關切絕對不是速發部一個人的掌握但是你的數位的情資有沒有及時分送這個圖像有沒有給國安局跟國防部或者是其他的執法單位我們要有一個通訊平台電子圖台現在海嵐過去跟國際的資料顯示38%是捕魚的魚網的剛才拖的25%"},{"start":469.045,"end":496.726,"text":"是下锚的这下锚的有意外事件有刻意破坏另外还包括地震包括东西所以我刚跟你讲只要看到一些船有可疑行动你监控它你看它挂的旗Yankee本舰正在溜锚中Romeo本舰处于静止状态但是它如果挂Romeo而在慢慢移动它在做行为那甚至Delta这个旗子海巡署是看得见的"},{"start":497.446,"end":513.059,"text":"那再去看它毛孔毛链是不是垂直的就表示你做的动作跟你的挂的旗帜是违反海上行为法的这些东西都可以做预备像日本已经监控了海底电缆左右1000公尺禁止采挖"},{"start":514.507,"end":537.825,"text":"韓國也訂出規定了新加坡也訂出規定了我認為我們的國安團隊要整合這個要求而不是各部會問就像這樣子各位你們都講得很清楚你都有你的角色很重要但是你缺什麼你缺一個共同圖台你沒有一個平台所以大家講的都很重要我這邊都表達肯定如何交換殉職像這個圖你看我們這個右邊的"},{"start":541.808,"end":561.036,"text":"淡水每一个图是哪一个海岚我们都可以标上去可是这个底图就是刚才罗委员讲的图这叫示意图这个图是不准的这是地震师的图这个图出来了可是这个图又没有海水深度的显示"},{"start":562.366,"end":581.033,"text":"它要脫斷都在100公尺以內它怎麼會跑到水深300公尺它下毛 它毛鏈多長不同的船的頓位不同的毛鏈長位下毛通常是一倍一半到兩倍的水深這都是海上的專業知識可是不用情報分享沒有一個完整的圖像"},{"start":582.128,"end":607.793,"text":"你怎么判断所以之前这个图里面画那个直线的全部是示意图所以罗伟元刚刚讲的图是示意图跟媒体的公布资料那内政部已经把这个图出来了如果交通部或者是中华电信拿到更细的图我们要调效然后再去配合海水的深度你刚刚讲的近线制水域对本岛来讲哪有近线制水域啊就是临海基线24里那"},{"start":609.983,"end":624.13,"text":"另外一个我们不谈无害通过因为你完全有权利掌握我是在公海上即便是在通过我的这个所谓的海揽区你在那边做可疑行为我派执法船拦截你"},{"start":625.12,"end":652.045,"text":"因為AIS已經告訴你的船籍 船東 租賃公司所掛的國旗 裝貨 卸貨點 發起點你這個行為可疑 我當然可以執法了我可以 我叫Hot Pursuit我從領海一路追到外面 我要領檢那這些東西都是跟國際法 海洋法有關的所以各部會在今天如果還是用你的專業指講你的連一張圖都不拿出來你今天"},{"start":653.154,"end":673.181,"text":"我們今天這個圖是內政部的圖這個圖跟剛才所看到的所有的示意圖完全不一樣可是內政部這張圖裡面又沒有領海基線也沒有24里那更沒有海底深度所以透過學研單位可以幫各位的需求做整合這個科技部實際上對這個做"},{"start":675.441,"end":692.638,"text":"这个很小的一个project我个人已经建立的资料库可以support大家可是我到今天看八份报告里面居然没有一张图没有一张表这个是值得我们共同努力本席在这边提出一个非常强烈的建议然后再谈到跨部会"},{"start":693.439,"end":718.764,"text":"涉及到國家安全社會韌性請提出圖表來圖是圖表示表要精確的校正不要示意圖我在這邊向各位請益我提供各位的是專業意見我不用示意圖我不用報紙的截圖請用一個共同平台我再次呼籲跨部會的協商不能各說各話都講得對無法收斂以上謝謝謝謝委員指教謝謝陳永康委員"},{"start":723.166,"end":723.527,"text":"接下來我們請沈伯陽委員上台"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:29:00+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T09:29:01+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:29:01+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T09:29:02+08:00","text":"請數發部、中華電信。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T09:29:02+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T09:29:03+08:00","text":"請數發部、中華電信。","quality":0},{"speaker":"闕次長河鳴","start":"2025-01-16T09:29:02.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:29:02.896000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:29:03.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:29:03.261000+08:00","text":"各位好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:29:05.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:29:19.976000+08:00","text":"剛才報告的國安局局長和國防部長所論述的重點，本席在這邊表達認同，但認同並不代表了解。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:29:21.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:29:30.638000+08:00","text":"今天一共有8份報告，各個單位都有，都是盍各言爾志，講自己所認為的重點。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:29:30.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:29:37.325000+08:00","text":"請問在場的哪一位能夠把這8份匯集成一張圖表，顯示海纜圖在哪裡？","quality":0.679},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:29:38.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:29:48.069000+08:00","text":"剛才羅委員講的是示意圖，很多該做的事過去沒做，但這件事發生之後我們該如何精進？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:29:48.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:29:52.410000+08:00","text":"所以今天談的是解套方案，是應變方案，是備援方案。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:29:53.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:29:58.092000+08:00","text":"第一個問題我請教，請問數發部知道這14條海纜的細部圖嗎？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:29:58.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:29:58.932000+08:00","text":"細部圖、精準位置圖。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"闕次長河鳴","start":"2025-01-16T09:30:00.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:30:16.382000+08:00","text":"我們手上有，我們非常清楚，因為在數發部10樓就有NCCSC，所有的海纜狀況都有即時資訊，細部圖也都在即時資訊裡。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:30:17.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:30:20.624000+08:00","text":"這14條海纜的修復簽約是由中華電信簽的？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"闕次長河鳴","start":"2025-01-16T09:30:21.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:30:21.625000+08:00","text":"不一定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:30:22.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:30:23.766000+08:00","text":"有多少約？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:30:23.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:30:24.826000+08:00","text":"幾個合約？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:30:24.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:30:27.888000+08:00","text":"這14條海纜的修復合約有幾個？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"闕次長河鳴","start":"2025-01-16T09:30:27.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:30:31.470000+08:00","text":"修復合約由各不同的擁有者去處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:30:32.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:30:35.148000+08:00","text":"各擁有者的合約你有嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"闕次長河鳴","start":"2025-01-16T09:30:35.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:30:38.830000+08:00","text":"因為有很多是國際海纜，我們不見得會有修復合約……","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:30:39.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:30:50.677000+08:00","text":"沒有，有聯外的合約當然就有修復合約，國際海纜要看狀況，而且你們的合約修完以後，甚至要拿到國立大學請有關海研的單位再幫你們review，你知道嗎？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"牛司長信仁","start":"2025-01-16T09:30:50.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:31:03.063000+08:00","text":"報告委員，海纜如果真的中斷，也是由電信事業負責維修，他們會聯絡海纜船來做維修。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:31:03.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:31:04.564000+08:00","text":"聯絡就是要合約啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:31:05.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:31:07.126000+08:00","text":"合約裡面要講什麼時候船會來！","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛司長信仁","start":"2025-01-16T09:31:07.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:31:15.554000+08:00","text":"我們在資安防護……就是在安全防護計畫中有陳述各電信業者後續的維修狀況。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:31:16.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:31:30.024000+08:00","text":"我今天來質詢各位，講到的一個最重要關鍵就是，這一年來我一直強調，政府包括國防部、到國安會、到各部會要有一個共同圖像。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:31:30.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:31:38.810000+08:00","text":"所謂的共同圖像就是一個資料庫，但是還要建立平臺，瞬間所產生的狀況、大家所看到的資訊是相同的。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:31:39.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:31:48.530000+08:00","text":"剛才提到你們有用低軌衛星做備援，請問OneWeb衛星總共多少顆？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"闕次長河鳴","start":"2025-01-16T09:31:51.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:31:53.974000+08:00","text":"OneWeb衛星的數目，還是接收器的數目？","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:31:54.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:31:55.815000+08:00","text":"衛星多少顆？","quality":1},{"speaker":"闕次長河鳴","start":"2025-01-16T09:31:55.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:31:58.856000+08:00","text":"衛星大概有六百五十顆，因為數字是浮動的。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:32:00.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:32:03.938000+08:00","text":"對，六百五十顆衛星，可是分12個軌道，每一個軌道有多少顆？","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:32:03.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:32:06.860000+08:00","text":"通過臺灣24小時有多少顆？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:32:06.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:32:08.340000+08:00","text":"每一次通過的時間有多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:32:09.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:32:10.341000+08:00","text":"地面有多少接收站？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:32:11.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:32:11.542000+08:00","text":"頻寬有多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:32:11.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:32:16.886000+08:00","text":"773個，政府拿走700個，只有73個給民間。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:32:18.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:32:21.229000+08:00","text":"這個作為海纜備援是很好的理想，但不夠用！","quality":0.389},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:32:22.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:32:25.144000+08:00","text":"因為我們現在還在談判。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:32:26.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:32:35.367000+08:00","text":"所以這裡面的限制因素，是傳播速度，OneWeb的影像根本無法分配，所以你只是維持手機通訊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:32:35.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:32:54.577000+08:00","text":"如果中華電信的微波中斷，現在外島是靠中華電信的微波來支持，如果海纜中斷，這個海纜中斷不管是惡意、無意或者是意外事件，你可以布海纜，尤其是在近岸布海纜，可以要求它埋一公尺掘深，而不是只在深海的海纜裡面。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"闕次長河鳴","start":"2025-01-16T09:32:56.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:33:06.721000+08:00","text":"報告委員，委員是行家，其實我們有要求在大陸棚，今天中華電信有人在這邊，也應該很清楚。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"闕次長河鳴","start":"2025-01-16T09:33:06.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:33:18.830000+08:00","text":"也就是所有在大陸棚的海纜都是深埋在海平面下至少十公尺，大概是五公尺以下到二十公尺的區間。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"闕次長河鳴","start":"2025-01-16T09:33:19.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:33:48.735000+08:00","text":"我曾經接受過許多次國際媒體採訪，事實上要把海纜割斷需要有三個意外，第一個意外，因為所有的海纜圖是公開的，而公開的目的就是為了要防止商船或漁船在海纜處下錨，中華電信也有系統，就是當ACS、船速太慢，然後又接近海纜時我們都會示警，所以這些公開資訊是為了防止意外的產生。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"闕次長河鳴","start":"2025-01-16T09:33:50.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:34:22.739000+08:00","text":"所以第一個意外就是如果要割斷海纜，你必須在海纜的附近下錨，下錨以後，第二個意外是你必須開動船隻的引擎，因為在正常的情況下，船隻下錨以後不會開動引擎，你在下錨後開動引擎繼續前行，這才有可能會把海纜割斷，必須要有三個意外，而且所有的海纜公司在近海處、在大陸棚都會做深埋，這都是為了保護海纜的安全。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"闕次長河鳴","start":"2025-01-16T09:34:23.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:34:37.955000+08:00","text":"所以我們現在所面對的問題並不是一個意外，因為你需要這三個意外都發生，但是要三個意外都發生實在是太困難了，所以這顯然不是一個正常的情況。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:34:37.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:34:50.503000+08:00","text":"我剛剛提到，現在我們不管是各部會做這種意外事件的當值的時候，你要有一個共同平臺、共同圖像，然後大家都可以用GIS、都可以用AIS。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:34:51.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:35:15.710000+08:00","text":"至於這個船，根據IMO的規則，每條船有7個代碼，所以你點進去就會知道船東、船籍、所掛國旗、租賃、裝貨點、卸貨點、發航位置全部都有，所以你發現一個船持續在那邊做不正當行為的時候，已經開始有預應了，但是以一般的圖來講，你並不知道，你只是看到海面，你沒有看到海深。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:35:16.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:35:37.023000+08:00","text":"所以像剛才您講的，不管是衛星、微波、海纜，通訊傳播速度完全不同，99.5%靠海纜，其他只是備援，幫不了大忙，斷了以後馬上要根據合約，外商的船過來要多久，這個時間國安會要能掌握，國防部要能掌握。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:35:37.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:35:51.068000+08:00","text":"我們再看下一張圖，這個剛才前面的羅委員就顯示了，可是這上面沒有水深啊，我經過校正把水深套上去，你就會發現這個船為什麼要走呢？","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:35:51.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:36:16.286000+08:00","text":"因為它的錨可能只放了150公尺，如果要顯示它是一艘故障船就要掛旗，不管是掛Yankee、Romeo、Delta，都代表不同的現況，這個是執法可以依據的，然後你用無人機或監控系統看到它的錨在那邊，這個船以兩節的速度在那邊亂移動就要上去臨檢，規定可不可以？","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:36:16.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:36:39.018000+08:00","text":"可以立法規定啊，日本已經規定了，新加坡、韓國也規定了，所以基礎設施的維護是全國所關切的，絕對不是數發部一個部會在掌握，但是你的數位情資有沒有即時分送，這個圖像有沒有給國安局跟國防部或者是其他執法單位，我們要有一個通訊平臺、電子圖臺。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:36:41.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:37:27.515000+08:00","text":"過去海纜損壞的態樣，依據國際的資料顯示，38%是魚船拖網扯斷的，25%是下錨勾拖損壞的，下錨的部分有意外事件，也有刻意破壞，另外還包括地震、包括其他原因，所以我剛剛跟你講，只要看到一艘船有可疑行動，你監控它，看它掛的旗，Yankee是本艦正在溜錨中，Romeo是本艦處於靜止狀態，但是它如果掛Romeo而在慢慢移動就表示它在做行為，甚至Delta，這個旗幟海巡署是看得見的，再去看它的錨孔、錨鏈是不是垂直的，就表示你做的動作跟所掛旗幟是否違反海上行為法，這些東西都可以做預備。","quality":0.671},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:37:28.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:37:49.679000+08:00","text":"像日本已經監控了海底電纜左右1,000公尺禁止採挖，韓國也訂出規定，新加坡也訂出規定，我認為我們的國安團隊要整合這個要求，而不是各自為政，就像這樣子，各位都講得很清楚，都有你們的角色，很重要，但是缺什麼？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:37:49.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:37:57.305000+08:00","text":"缺一個共同圖臺，你沒有一個平臺，所以大家講的都很重要，我這邊都表達肯定，但如何交換訊資？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:37:57.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:38:28.768000+08:00","text":"像這個圖，你看我們右邊的淡水，每一個圖是哪一個海纜我們都可以標上去，可是這個底圖就是剛才羅委員講的圖，這叫示意圖，這個圖是不準的，這個圖是地政司的圖，這個圖出來了，可是這個圖又沒有海水深度的顯示，它要拖斷都在100公尺以內，怎麼會跑到水深300公尺的地方下錨，錨鏈多長？","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:38:28.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:38:42.448000+08:00","text":"不同噸位的船有不同的錨鏈長度，下錨通常是1.5倍到2倍的水深，這都是海上的專業知識，可是不用情報分享，沒有一個完整的圖像，你怎麼判斷？","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:38:43.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:39:07.473000+08:00","text":"所以之前這個圖裡面畫那個直線的全部是示意圖，所以羅委員剛剛講的圖是示意圖跟媒體公布的資料，內政部已經把這個圖放出來了，如果交通部或者是中華電信拿到更細的圖，我們要調校，然後再去配合海水的深度，你剛剛講的禁限制水域，對本島來講哪有禁限制水域，就是領海基線24浬！","quality":0.597},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:39:09.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:39:44.984000+08:00","text":"另外一個，我們不談無害通過，因為你完全有權力掌握，在公海上，如果你在通過我的海纜區時在那邊做可疑行為，我派執法船去攔截你，因為AIS已經告訴我有關你的船籍、船東、租賃公司、所掛國旗、裝貨點、卸貨點、發起點，當你這個行為可疑時我當然可以執法，我可以hot pursuit，從領海一路追到外面要臨檢，這些東西都是跟國際法、海洋法有關的。","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:39:45.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:40:17.123000+08:00","text":"所以各部會在今天如果還是只用你的專業在講你的，連一張圖都不拿出來，我們今天這個圖是內政部的圖，這個圖跟剛才所看到的所有示意圖完全不一樣，可是內政部這張圖裡面又沒有領海基線，也沒有24浬，更沒有海底深度，所以透過學研單位可以幫各位的需求做整合，科技部實際上做這個是很小的一個project。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:40:17.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:40:27.073000+08:00","text":"我個人已經建立的資料庫可以support大家，可是我今天看的8份報告裡面居然沒有一張圖、沒有一張表，這個是值得我們共同努力。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:40:27.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:40:41.561000+08:00","text":"本席在這邊提出一個非常強烈的建議，爾後在談到跨部會涉及到國家安全、社會韌性，請提出圖表來，圖是圖、表是表，要精確的校正，不要示意圖。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:40:41.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:40:56.644000+08:00","text":"我在這邊向各位請益，我提供各位的是專業意見，我不用示意圖，我不用報紙的截圖，請用一個共同平臺，我再次呼籲，跨部會的協商不能各說各話，都講得對，無法收斂。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2025-01-16T09:40:56.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:40:56.844000+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"闕次長河鳴","start":"2025-01-16T09:40:56.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:40:57.024000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T09:40:58.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:40:58.764000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳永康委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T09:41:03.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T09:41:03.507000+08:00","text":"接下來請沈伯洋委員上臺質詢。","quality":0.769}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}