{"error":false,"id":["158905"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":158905,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158905","日期":"2025-01-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-35-27","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":27,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-01-16T10:04:42+08:00","結束時間":"2025-01-16T10:14:56+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:14","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e6909b4ca57c06126fb5a915e5256ca029ae781c7e1649b4e1c9837952b46cc3d9703f2b8768d29e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"10:04:42 - 10:14:56","會議時間":"2025-01-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局局長、國防部部長、大陸委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、交通部、經濟部、數位發展部、海洋委員會海巡署報告「針對海底電纜係國家對外重要通訊手段，為避免中共利用各種灰色地帶手段測試我國網路及電網韌性情事發生，如何建立有效備援系統以支援軍事作戰並支撐基礎建設防護韌性」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.6334687500000005,"end":7.1353437500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.54034375,"end":44.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.17159375,"end":148.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.71659375000002,"end":176.50971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.32471875000002,"end":172.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.15096875,"end":207.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.06596875000002,"end":212.75721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.31409375,"end":227.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.59034375000002,"end":247.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.35096875000002,"end":267.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.53346875,"end":267.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.15784375000004,"end":282.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.97409375,"end":359.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.48346875000004,"end":317.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":317.50034375,"end":317.65221875000003,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.65221875000003,"end":317.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.51909375,"end":377.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.87909375000004,"end":385.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.30096875000004,"end":378.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.79346875000005,"end":410.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.43096875000003,"end":434.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.52846875,"end":435.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.90784375000004,"end":437.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.93721875000006,"end":439.27034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.95784375000005,"end":442.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.84784375000004,"end":445.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.14284375000005,"end":445.95284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":445.95284375000006,"end":445.98659375000005,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.32409375000003,"end":447.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.21409375,"end":452.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":450.81284375,"end":461.17409375000005,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":461.30909375000005,"end":461.34284375000004,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.34284375000004,"end":464.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.90346875,"end":468.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.13909375000003,"end":470.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.16409375,"end":472.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.44659375000003,"end":503.36159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.71596875000006,"end":504.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.94346875,"end":507.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.81659375000004,"end":551.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.44909375000003,"end":510.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.84534375,"end":513.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.0290937500001,"end":556.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.45909375,"end":555.2522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":557.04096875,"end":597.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.92909375,"end":603.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":599.05971875,"end":600.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.97846875,"end":608.2397187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.629,"end":21.624,"text":"好謝謝主席林委員長局長好我想今天大家討論的題目其實都是所定的這個主題我想媒體也非常的關切在您的報告特別提到的是現在這個所謂權宜輪危眼活動置身勾損"},{"start":23.385,"end":31.808,"text":"被認為是境外勢力對我灰色威脅的一個新的樣態了嗎那麼原因是因為就是因為這個所謂的中國的權宜輪順興39號這樣的一個案例又或者是說除了這個案例被媒體關注之外其實還有其他的案例或情資國安局的掌握是什麼"},{"start":45.582,"end":74.351,"text":"對 我想中國的權宜輪它對我們的這種海域安全造成的風險確實是不斷地在升高當中那除了這次案例我們所看到的就是中國的第三國籍權宜輪那它進階到我們的周邊水域甚至是在海嵐鋪設的範圍水域來進行活動那事後又傳出了海嵐遭到鉤損的一個狀況那所以我們可以高度地來懷疑那可能這一艘船舶它必須要針對這一次海嵐的損毀狀況要擔負起一定程度的責任"},{"start":74.671,"end":89.602,"text":"當然這個案子已經在基隆地檢署的偵辦過程當中我們尊重司法單位查辦的一個過程跟結果至於有沒有中國其他權益論的活動樣態事實上這是我剛才在跟媒體朋友說明是我們接下來主要的關注跟應處的重點"},{"start":90.703,"end":111.043,"text":"那因為這些可能的權利輪到我們周邊的活動他不止有可能會像這一次發生儀式損害我們海欄的狀況他也有可能是可以來佈放一些海上的徵收的一個裝備那甚至透過他們這種比較不尋常的海上軌跡的活動來干擾我們相關海防任務的一個執行增加我們的負擔"},{"start":111.644,"end":137.956,"text":"所以這部分我剛剛也在跟黃人委員說明過去我們針對中國籍的船舶各種的船舶包括各種的拖船、貨船所謂的這種滾裝貨輪或是海調船、公務船海調船指的是海洋調查船、科研船我們都有一個完整的通報機制只要一進階我們馬上就進行通報跟映出但是權宜輪確實是我們必須要再加強駐收的一個主要的對象因為中國是全世界貨輪最大的傳統國"},{"start":140.057,"end":164.604,"text":"他只要把他的權益輪登記在各個其他的第三國籍那在台海周邊活動的話確實對我們國安會產生的潛在風險是不斷的在增加當中好所以我仔細聆聽局長的回應言下之意就是說這可能未來從這個案例我們要注意的他對於我們整個領海水域的安全破壞的可能未來不僅僅只是所謂的海底電纜不論是國際的電纜或者是我們自己國內的電纜會加強這個防注意或防制"},{"start":169.565,"end":175.986,"text":"但是我接下來要問的喔 局長你可以先請回主席我要請這個海巡署交通部跟中華電信總經理"},{"start":177.216,"end":195.181,"text":"就是事情發生之後當然我知道現在地檢署都已經在進行相關的偵辦調查可是我想要回到這個案件的本身因為我今天特別仔細的看了大家的報告大家都各說各其中一塊我先講一下事發回到1月3號海巡署獲得了通報這是海巡署的新聞稿講的"},{"start":200.543,"end":227.051,"text":"在3號的12點40分海巡署接到中華電信的通報之後就趕赴了現場那發現就要求這個S輪立刻返回基隆港然後在海外接受調查我想要問海巡署的署長喔那麼接受到通報之後的SOP是什麼然後S輪有接受調查嗎在海外接受調查嗎署長"},{"start":227.671,"end":246.594,"text":"是我們接12點40分1月3號10點40分就通報立即派遣100噸艇趕往現場那也在下午4點40分攔截到這艘S輪我們立即要求他配合我們返回基隆外海接受調查因為那個地方海象不好他也配合所以在基隆外海我們"},{"start":247.495,"end":262.555,"text":"跟他做收證包括全船的照相跟錄影等等那因為登檢我們要登檢或是要接駁船長做筆錄都要私放小艇那天海上是六七最大陣風九沒辦法放小艇在"},{"start":263.536,"end":282.592,"text":"過了九個小時之後呢從報案從斷纜到7點45分斷纜我們12點40分接到報案一直到4點40分已經過了九個小時那因為不是現行犯我們不排除他有嫌疑不排除有勾斷海底的可能海底的可能但不是現行犯所以沒有扣留"},{"start":283.032,"end":287.853,"text":"好 所以言下之意就是因為距離的時間很久再加上海上不佳沒有辦法登船也沒有辦法把它帶回來嗎現在其實本席要問的就是為什麼這艘船就這樣開走因為現在開走之後變成是我們要委請外交單位比如說因為它當時的目的港是釜山嘛所以我們現在只能請他們協助如果海巡署在這裡發生有問題的時候為什麼"},{"start":309.458,"end":315.94,"text":"沒有入港來進行檢查本席就問了如果被我們通緝的人絕對是不可能進入我們的國內對不對但是我來就問海巡署當時覺得他有嫌疑但不是現行犯所以沒有扣留S輪"},{"start":325.663,"end":330.346,"text":"沒有把他拉到我們的基隆港來接受調查原因是什麼是不是因為當時他不是目的港他沒有申請所以海巡署要求他進港的時候港務局說S輪必須要經過申請才能入關因為剛剛我一直強調他的目的港不是台灣既然不能登船為什麼不能讓他入港有沒有這樣的情況就是因為"},{"start":354.923,"end":358.774,"text":"他沒有先事先申請入基隆港海巡署"},{"start":359.534,"end":382.513,"text":"包委包委除了說不是現行犯還向影響另外呢入港也有入港申請程序所以我們在會後召開報部會會議我們有共識以後內案馬上報警檢察官優先待案相關程序我們跟交通部航港局都協調好了以後內案優先待反所以言下之意就是這個案子他凸顯的是一個橫向上面聯繫的問題我沒有要來"},{"start":385.956,"end":407.495,"text":"指責或者是究責海巡署因為海巡署是盡力的而且海巡署也希望登檢但是就是因為海象不好所以沒有登檢但是海巡署也覺得即使不是現行犯也有嫌疑嘛我舉個例子如果今天警察在路上發現他疑似張車疑似是作案的交通工具我警察要去扣這台車但是結果"},{"start":410.578,"end":433.534,"text":"他要把他扣回去停車場的時候停車場說不好意思這台車沒有來申請停車所以我不能讓他進來那這個是不是就錯失了可能犯案的所謂現行犯或者是喔不是現行犯犯案的歹徒那在這個部分所以你們接下來以後會有橫向的聯繫就算是沒有申請來港務局 港務局今天有嗎港務局是香港局好 香港局"},{"start":441.115,"end":470.225,"text":"那個北航中心的主任是我們的組長嗎?香港局主任所以這個橫向聯繫是有達成共識嗎?因為今天交通部來的層級不夠高1月6號下午我們跟海巡署有開過會已經定調有一個共識有關這個船舶進出港我們隨時來配合辦理因為這個其實很荒謬而且我必須講中華電信隸屬哪個單位?交通部是吧?"},{"start":471.223,"end":486.193,"text":"然後我們的交通部航港局也是交通部是吧是今天中華電信的電纜遭受損失跟海巡署來報案結果海巡署要把船拖進來結果航港局說抱歉這條船沒有申請所以不能進來我們只能放他走"},{"start":490.456,"end":504.056,"text":"如果是這樣我真的覺得這個問題值得關注如果你們1月6號現在已經進行了相關的聯繫我希望這個事件不要再發生最後我還是要再請一次這個蔡局長不好意思最後一點時間齁"},{"start":506.027,"end":523.453,"text":"那麼我想問一下剛剛已經有講了未來會有一些處理但是我們知道這件事情是國安的事件但是感覺上執法的是海巡署要加強監控的可能是海巡署國防部跟速發部還有通傳會可能NCC等等那麼現在最後"},{"start":524.714,"end":536.143,"text":"這個問題就像如您所說它未來可能會是一個灰色侵擾的樣態可能會不斷不斷地出現而台灣的危害可能不是只是電纜那麼未來組織單位會是誰我剛剛問的那個問題其實就是這樣一邊是海巡署一邊是交通部兩邊沒有講好也沒有橫向聯繫的時候好船隻就讓它走了現在我們就得要麻煩韓國麻煩釜山那麼接下來這樣的會議"},{"start":552.277,"end":555.539,"text":"請問一下國安局我們應該要誰來主責如果遇到同樣的樣態類似的樣態對這部分事實上國安會也有召開相關的會議來做委員比較關切的怎麼樣來強化跨部會之間的協調那這個機制我們來把它建立那第二部分是就國安局的立場來講"},{"start":568.268,"end":597.584,"text":"那剛剛也跟委員說明我會針對相關比較可疑傳播的活動跟海巡這邊來建立起一個即時通報的機制特別是針對權宜輪的部分那另外我們在接下來也會針對中共揮帶洗腦一樣他也會有針對海巡署的各個幹部跟同仁來開設一些課程來讓他們更了解可能中共在周邊水域主要的一個侵擾的一個主要的模式那也讓海巡來檢討一下目前的作業機制跟執法的規範有沒有更進一步可以測驚的地方"},{"start":597.944,"end":603.27,"text":"好 謝謝局長 大家請回 謝謝我們今天這個國防外交委員會開到最後一刻 大家都辛苦了 新年快樂"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:04:42+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:04:44.003000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:04:44.003000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:04:46.006000+08:00","text":"主席，先有請蔡局長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:04:46.006000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:04:48.009000+08:00","text":"請蔡局長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2025-01-16T10:04:48.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:04:49.591000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，林委員早。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:04:49.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:04:49.851000+08:00","text":"局長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:04:50.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:05:09.627000+08:00","text":"我想今天大家討論題目鎖定的主題，媒體也非常的關切，在您的報告特別提到現在權宜輪偽掩活動致生勾損，被認為是境外勢力對我灰帶威脅新的樣態。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:05:10.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:05:13.808000+08:00","text":"因為中國權宜輪順興39號的案例，又或者除了這個案例被媒體關注之外，其實還有其他的案例或情資，國安局的掌握是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2025-01-16T10:05:27.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:06:03.556000+08:00","text":"對，我想中國的權宜輪對我們海域安全造成的風險，確實是不斷地在升高當中，除了這次案例，我們所看到的就是中國第三國籍權宜輪近接到我們的周邊水域，甚至在海纜鋪設範圍的水域進行活動，事後又傳出海纜遭到勾損的狀況，所以我們可以高度地懷疑可能這一艘船舶，它必須針對這次海纜損毀狀況要擔負起一定程度的責任，當然這個案子已經在基隆地檢署偵辦過程當中，我們尊重司法單位查辦的過程跟結果。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2025-01-16T10:06:04.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:06:33.043000+08:00","text":"至於有沒有中國其他權宜輪的活動樣態，事實上我剛剛在跟媒體朋友說明，我們接下來主要關注跟應處的重點，因為這些權宜輪到我們周邊活動，它不只有可能會像這一次發生疑似損害我們海纜的狀況，也有可能是布放一些海上的偵搜裝備，甚至透過它們這種比較不尋常的海上軌跡活動，來干擾我們相關海防任務的執行，增加我們的負擔。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2025-01-16T10:06:33.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:06:53.093000+08:00","text":"所以這部分我剛剛也跟黃仁委員說明，過去我們針對中國籍各種船舶，包括各種的拖船、貨船、滾裝貨輪、海調船、公務船，海調船指的是海洋調查船或科研船，我們都有一個完整的通報機制，只要一近接我們馬上就進行通報跟應處。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2025-01-16T10:06:53.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:07:10.359000+08:00","text":"但是權宜輪確實是我們必須要再加強助搜的主要對象，因為中國是全世界貨輪最大的船東國，只要把它的權宜輪登記在各個其他第三國籍在臺海周邊活動的話，確實對我們國安會產生潛在風險是不斷地在增加當中。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:07:11.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:07:33.953000+08:00","text":"我仔細聆聽局長的回應，言下之意是，從這個案例我們要注意，它對於我們整個領海水域安全破壞的可能，未來不僅僅只是海底電纜，不論是國際電纜或國內電纜會加強注意或防制，但是我接下來要問的，局長，你可以先請回。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:07:34.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:07:37.966000+08:00","text":"主席，我要請海巡署、交通部跟中華電信總經理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:07:39.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:07:56.161000+08:00","text":"事情發生之後，當然我知道現在地檢署都已經在進行相關的偵辦調查，可是我想要回到這個案件的本身，因為我今天特別仔細地看了大家的報告，大家都各說各的其中一塊。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:07:56.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:08:17.968000+08:00","text":"我先講一下事發當時，回到1月3日，海巡署獲得通報，這是海巡署新聞稿講的，在3日12點40分，海巡署接到中華電信的通報後就趕赴現場，要求S輪立刻返回基隆港外海接受調查。","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:08:18.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:08:24.189000+08:00","text":"我想要問海巡署署長，那麼接受到通報之後的SOP是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:08:25.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:08:29.051000+08:00","text":"S輪有在外海接受調查嗎？署長。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"謝副署長慶欽","start":"2025-01-16T10:08:29.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:08:46.832000+08:00","text":"是，1月3日10點40分接獲通報，立即派遣100噸艇趕往現場，也在下午4點40分攔截到這艘S輪，我們立即要求它配合我們返回基隆外海接受調查，因為那個地方海象不好，它也配合。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"謝副署長慶欽","start":"2025-01-16T10:08:47.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:09:04.535000+08:00","text":"所以在基隆外海跟它做蒐證，包括全船照相跟錄影等等，因為我們要登檢或是要接駁船長做筆錄都要施放小艇，那天海象平均風力6、7級最大陣風9級，沒辦法放小艇。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"謝副署長慶欽","start":"2025-01-16T10:09:05.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:09:24.572000+08:00","text":"過了9個小時之後，從報案……7點45分斷纜，我們12點40分接到報案，一直到4點40分，已經過了9個小時，因為不是現行犯，它有嫌疑，不排除有拖斷海底電纜的可能，但不是現行犯，所以沒有扣留。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:09:25.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:09:27.192000+08:00","text":"言下之意就是因為距離的時間很久，再加上海象不佳，沒有辦法登船，也沒有辦法把它帶回來嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:09:27.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:09:27.673000+08:00","text":"其實本席要問的是，為什麼這艘船就這樣開走？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:09:28.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:09:53.739000+08:00","text":"因為它開走之後，變成是我們要委請外交單位，比如因為它當時的目的港是釜山，所以我們現在只能請他們協助，如果海巡署在這裡發現有問題的時候，為什麼它沒有入港來進行檢查？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:09:54.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:09:56.480000+08:00","text":"本席就問了，如果被我們通緝的人，絕對不可能進入國內對不對？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:09:56.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:10:09.104000+08:00","text":"我要問海巡署，當時覺得它有嫌疑，但不是現行犯，所以沒有扣留S輪，沒有把它拉到我們的基隆港來接受調查，原因是什麼？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:10:09.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:10:10.745000+08:00","text":"是不是因為當時它不是目的港，它沒有申請，所以海巡署要求它進港的時候，港務局說S輪必須要經過申請才能入港？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:10:10.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:10:11.626000+08:00","text":"因為剛剛我一直強調它的目的港不是臺灣，既然不能登船，為什麼不能讓它入港？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:10:12.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:10:12.286000+08:00","text":"有沒有這樣的情況？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:10:12.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:10:40.132000+08:00","text":"是不是因為它沒有事先申請入基隆港？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"謝副署長慶欽","start":"2025-01-16T10:10:41.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:10:59.069000+08:00","text":"報告委員，除了不是現行犯，還有海象影響，另外入港也有入港的申請程序，所以我們在會後召開跨部會會議，我們有共識，以後類案馬上報請檢察官優先帶返，相關程序我們跟交通部航港局都協調好了，以後類案優先帶返。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:11:00.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:11:22.189000+08:00","text":"言下之意就是這個案子所凸顯的是橫向聯繫上面的問題，我沒有要指責或者究責海巡署，因為海巡署是盡力的，而且海巡署也希望登檢，但就是因為海象不好，所以沒有登檢，但海巡署也覺得即使不是現行犯，也有嫌疑嘛！","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:11:22.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:11:46.748000+08:00","text":"我舉個例子，如果今天警察在路上發現疑似贓車，疑似是作案的交通工具，警察要去扣這台車，結果他要把它扣回去停車場的時候，停車場說不好意思，這台車沒有來申請停車，所以我不能讓它進來，這樣是不是就錯失了可能犯案的歹徒？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:11:47.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:11:54.093000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，你們以後應該要有橫向聯繫，就算沒有申請……請問港務局今天有來嗎？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"陳司長進生","start":"2025-01-16T10:11:54.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:12:07.737000+08:00","text":"是航港局，請北航中心的主任。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:12:10.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:12:12.818000+08:00","text":"所以這個橫向聯繫是有達成共識嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:12:12.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:12:14.599000+08:00","text":"因為今天交通部來的層級不夠高。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何主任文智","start":"2025-01-16T10:12:15.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:12:22.902000+08:00","text":"有，1月6號下午我們跟海巡署開過會，已經定調有一個共識，有關船舶進出港，我們隨時配合辦理。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:12:25.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:12:26.983000+08:00","text":"這個其實很荒謬啦！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:12:26.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:12:30.144000+08:00","text":"而且我必須講，中華電信隸屬於哪個單位？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:12:31.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:12:32.205000+08:00","text":"交通部是吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:12:33.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:12:37.666000+08:00","text":"然後航港局也是隸屬於交通部是吧？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:12:38.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:13:02.090000+08:00","text":"今天中華電信的電纜遭受損失，向海巡署報案，海巡署要把船拖進來，結果航港局說不好意思，這條船沒有申請，所以不能進來，以致於我們只好放它走，如果是這樣，我真的覺得這個問題值得關注，如果你們1月6號已經進行相關的聯繫，我希望這類事件不要再發生。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:13:02.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:13:34.901000+08:00","text":"最後我還是要再請一次蔡局長，不好意思，利用最後一點時間，我想問一下，剛剛已經有講未來會有一些處理，但是我們知道這件事情是國安事件，但是感覺上執法的是海巡署，要加強監控的可能是海巡署、國防部、數發部以及通傳會（NCC）等等，就如您所說，它未來可能會是一個灰色侵擾的樣態，可能會不斷、不斷地出現，而它對臺灣的危害可能不只是電纜，那麼未來主責單位會是誰？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:13:34.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:13:37.983000+08:00","text":"我剛剛問的那個問題其實就是這樣，一邊是海巡署，一邊是交通部，兩邊沒有講好，也沒有橫向聯繫的時候，結果船隻就讓它走了，現在我們就得要麻煩韓國、麻煩釜山。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:13:38.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:13:54.597000+08:00","text":"那麼接下來，這樣的會議，請問一下國安局我們應該要誰來主責？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:13:54.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:13:55.018000+08:00","text":"如果遇到同樣的樣態、類似的樣態。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2025-01-16T10:13:55.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:13:56.939000+08:00","text":"這部分事實上國安會也有召開相關的會議，來做委員比較關切的，怎麼樣來強化跨部會之間的協調，這個機制我們來把它建立。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2025-01-16T10:13:57.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:14:19.233000+08:00","text":"第二部分是就國安局的立場來講，剛剛也有跟委員說明，我會針對相關比較可疑船舶的活動跟海巡這邊來建立一個即時通報的機制，特別是針對權宜輪的部分。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2025-01-16T10:14:19.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:14:39.564000+08:00","text":"另外，接下來也會就中共灰色地帶侵擾樣態，針對海巡署的各個幹部跟同仁來開一些課程，讓他們了解可能中共在周邊水域侵擾的主要模式，也讓海巡來檢討一下目前的作業機制跟執法規範，有沒有更進一步可以策進的地方？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:14:39.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:14:41.826000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝局長，大家請回謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2025-01-16T10:14:41.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:14:45.270000+08:00","text":"今天我們國防及外交委員會開到最後一刻，大家都辛苦了，新年快樂！","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:14:45.770000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:14:48.912857+08:00","text":"謝謝林楚茵委員，局長請回。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（林楚茵代）","start":"2025-01-16T10:14:49.212857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:14:51.784286+08:00","text":"接下來請林憶君召委。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}