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徐委員早我們看到最近在中華電信的國際電纜海纜 野柳方向的海域底下中斷這件事情大家都覺得這是一個國安危機那我想要先詢問一下"},{"start":26.391,"end":45.676,"text":"交通部跟中華電信交通部跟中華電信那我們這一個在相關地區的海嵐有哪一些公司有哪一些公司是中華電信自己在製作的嗎還是發包出去請其他公司製作包委員是不是請中華電信來對我剛剛講中華電信跟這個交通部"},{"start":48.517,"end":75.507,"text":"報告委員海蘭布蘭是很專業所以都是委託專業公司布蘭委託專業公司那我想請問有哪幾家公司來協助我們做專業布蘭像這個日本然後像沒有我要講你每一家公司的名字台灣的部分好不好我們台灣有沒有公司沒有這都是國際公司好沒有我們台灣沒有任何一家公司來協助我們的中華電信來做電纜的製作嗎"},{"start":78.062,"end":93.673,"text":"電纜製作有但是布纜這個是布纜沒有嗎但是電纜有嗎那但是我們這一次是電纜的部分被剪了嗎不是是國際的海纜裡面是光纜我們是國際的海纜裡面是光纜那所以說呢好"},{"start":94.724,"end":122.483,"text":"我們在講到的事情是那未來我們海底電纜因為國際中央通訊手段那這個有關於電網的韌性情勢發生有沒有可能除了我們這次的部件之外有沒有可能未來我們台灣自己在底下埋的電纜也有被剪斷的機會跟可能性這應該分國內陸纜跟國際的海纜部分國際海纜 海纜也有我們台灣自己製造的"},{"start":124.758,"end":153.729,"text":"有吧因為國際海欄它事實上是要綿延幾千公里所以事實上是要特殊製作那據我的理解大部分都是國外大部分那有國內的嗎國內的我可能要查一下但是在國內的木欄的部分是有的我說的是海欄海欄比較少比較少但是有沒有我可以查一下你可以查一下什麼時候可以告訴我們應該馬上就查一下馬上應該是沒有啦應該是沒有沒有嗎來我們給大家看一下"},{"start":154.48,"end":154.501,"text":"好"},{"start":155.478,"end":184.378,"text":"其實實際上我先前在國安這個國防外交委員會的時候我們就已經指訓過了在這家中華電信的這個子公司裡面世芳電訊它是唯一一個電信機房的合作它的服務呢包含是中國大陸跟香港在整個世芳電訊的東南亞佈局裡面它包含做的是國際的中立金房還有相關的這個網路交換中心還有呢這個台灣主要的相關的公友交換平台"},{"start":184.958,"end":210.03,"text":"的關口跟什麼呢台灣主要國際海欄的閘口我請問一下這個台灣國際海欄的閘口是否是由電信這個四方電訊有跟我們台灣這邊中華電信有合作剛才談到的我們的離島之間的海欄還有剛才談到主要海欄都是中華自己沒有經過四方"},{"start":210.543,"end":236.253,"text":"沒有經過釋放來我們看下一張再看下一張這個是我們從這個櫃買公司上面下載下來的因為他們是上市公司它上面五之一怎麼寫呢TPCX國際海嵐借街中心它上面寫台灣唯一公有的私有海嵐匯集的IDC電信大樓可以快速提供海嵐交匯的備援服務上面寫的這個私有海嵐電子"},{"start":237.313,"end":265.549,"text":"等等的那公有的都是接到這個IC大樓裡面那包含了淡水的海嵐站巴黎的海嵐站投誠的海嵐站跟方山的海嵐站我想要問的事情是如果中國大陸對這些因為世方電訊是中華電信的子公司所以我才會提出這個問題它不是單純的一家普通的公司它是中華電信的子公司所以我想問一下如果這個世方電訊它所設立的相關的電纜被中國大陸減掉的話對台灣有什麼影響"},{"start":268.303,"end":285.768,"text":"我想會有部分影響,但是竹農這一次所發生的情況沒有,我現在是在跟你講說其他的嘛,因為我們就是舉一反三嘛,對不對?我就現在問你的問題,你回答我問你的問題就好了以中華來講,這一次我們調度的電纜、海纜全部都是中華製衣,沒有經過四方"},{"start":286.741,"end":303.211,"text":"不是嘛 我就問你說世芳有沒有做這個嘛它有它自己的一個服務因為它也是一個上市櫃公司它有它的運作是 但它有沒有跟中華電信去合作來做相關的海欄那如果今天這個海欄被剪掉之後那對於整個台灣是否會有影響"},{"start":303.931,"end":328.017,"text":"跟委員報告這裡面有兩個中華字叫備援那意思就是說如果中華自己擁有的海南全部都斷了全部我們會利用四方的那但是是全部都斷好那我們再看前面這家四方電訊它是中華電信的子公司這個沒有錯吧那但是這家四方電訊它卻跟中國大陸的非常多家的電信公司都在合作"},{"start":328.757,"end":352.481,"text":"那我們讓這一家釋放電訊這次比較小可是你可以看得到包含中國電信包含中國大陸幾乎所有的電信它還提供中國大陸的優質服務跟中國大陸的多家電信業者進行緊密的合作我的意思是我們在考量國家安全的時候你都說了如果今天所有的電纜被剪掉的話釋放電訊它可以提供的是備援"},{"start":353.181,"end":376.392,"text":"那但是他卻同時的在跟中國大陸做這麼密切的電信的來往那這對我們的國家來說其他就有可能是一個破口所以既然他是我們的子公司那我們跟他們之間在討論這些問題的時候難道我們沒有任何的主導權嗎是 我跟委員報告一下他的事業就是做一個國際的接口"},{"start":378.032,"end":404.78,"text":"國際歸國際我們現在因為你們最喜歡講的一句話叫做國際沒有要侵 其他國家沒有要侵略台灣但中共有啊不是嗎 你們最喜歡講的不是這句嗎所以我今天只講中國大陸嘛你不要跟我扯其他國際的東南亞什麼的我們都接受啊但問題是四方電訊你剛剛講了它是可以作為我們電纜如果都出狀況的時候的一個備援但它同時的合作夥伴大多都是中國大陸"},{"start":405.64,"end":429.949,"text":"那這個狀況你們要怎麼解釋呢我想說明說因為舉個例子台灣的民眾要看大陸的內容或者要跟大陸通訊是不是一定要有一個接口那這個接口事實上他扮演的就是這種角色那除非我們台灣跟大陸不接觸完全斷絕通訊否則的話一定要有人扮演台灣跟那為什麼不能是另外一家的公司來協助這個服務呢"},{"start":430.349,"end":456.341,"text":"因為它已經涉及到所謂的電纜是跟國家安全有關的啊我沒有說不讓兩兩岸之間有溝通跟服務的可能性但為什麼我們只能有一家公司要把這些所有的東西都用完呢我這邊有特色那顧部長不用上來但是大家也可以想一想這件事情它如果真的發生說兩岸之間有衝突的時候的嚴重性喔我相信蔡明彥部長也非常清楚喔那你們可以先下去了我接下來要請教的是蔡部長好"},{"start":457.887,"end":479.998,"text":"那個,我要請到國防部長吧,不好意思,那個顧部長請上台,謝謝,不好意思,那個蔡長可以先回去,謝謝,但是我剛剛講了,你們要想一想這個風險性,想一想這個風險性,那個部長,我這邊要跟你請教一個,希望那個主席可以給我一點時間,就是呢,大家知道現在有一個網紅叫做八九,"},{"start":480.658,"end":497.066,"text":"那他先前呢在他的這個YouTube上面他講說台灣呢有十幾二十萬人是領有中國身分證而且一個城市有三四千人是在排隊的可是我們內政部長去查詢之後發現說呢其實不到十個人"},{"start":497.606,"end":523.217,"text":"那我就算過如果有20萬的國人同時擁有中華人民共和國的身分證的話大概就是代表說有1%的台灣人都擁有中華民國的身分證那假設我們再配上國軍的志願役的原額16萬人來說一趴裡面可能有1600人去潛藏於部隊當中那我們在簽志願役的時候當然有載民不得具有雙重國籍"},{"start":524.617,"end":541.215,"text":"所以如果沒有算一五一的話可能更多所以部長你覺得有可能說這個劉世芳部長已經查了啦她說查完之後不到十個人你就有可能說台灣有二十萬人同時擁有中華人民共和國的身分證跟這個中華民國身分證嗎"},{"start":542.732,"end":558.355,"text":"跟委員報告我的了解是像他有不同的一個有身份證有定居證他講的是身份證有居住證他有三個不同的如果要拿到中國的身份證的話其實他整個就要放棄我們這邊的戶籍然後台胞證也沒有了"},{"start":570.057,"end":591.005,"text":"所以這個部分的話我想可能要有一些區隔那如果說他放棄這邊的戶籍的話然後甚至放棄掉台胞證的話我想我們應該可以想辦法來查得出來在我們的國軍裡面有沒有這樣的一個狀況但是其實內政部已經幫我們去查啦因為內政部他查的是全國國人全體國人當然也包括我們的軍人在內嘛"},{"start":597.367,"end":620.499,"text":"所以他就講說有20萬人這件事情最後劉士芳部長他已經出來講說內政部查是他是查全國國人當然也包含國軍只有不到10個人而已不到10個人所以呢這其實就是一個假訊息我坦白說因為既然內政部長他是負責管理這些包含人口的他去查只有10個人那我現在要講的事情是跟國防部有關的"},{"start":620.879,"end":648.178,"text":"就是說呢我們在113年的12月19號的禮拜四在53工兵群的工兵支援營的裝備連裡面裝備連的連輔導長林信的中尉在12月19號禮拜四要放舉光原地之前先放了這個影片而且呢放這個影片給我們國軍弟兄看他還講說"},{"start":650.419,"end":661.289,"text":"他們等於是去PUA我們的國軍說呢 你看某一些政黨跟中共一定有瓜葛我坦白講就是國民黨跟民眾黨一開始還把民眾黨講成民主黨這個感覺完全沒有什麼這個政治素養所以我的意思是說軍人 國軍軍隊應該要保持中立這個部長您認同嗎"},{"start":675.175,"end":697.835,"text":"我想在國安法裡面有要求國軍要維持政治中立對所以他在看這個舉光原地之前這個輔導長先播放剛剛那樣子的一個假訊息的影片然後去告訴我們的國軍說你看有20萬人都有這個中華人民共和國的身份證然後再告訴大家說就是國民黨跟民眾黨做的"},{"start":698.576,"end":722.082,"text":"那個部長您覺得這樣子的一個輔導長他做這樣子的一個做法是合理的嗎我想委員因為剛剛才告訴我這樣子的一個訊息我想我必須要去深切的了解他整個的一個脈絡我才好回答委員的問題我現在沒有辦法立即下回答委員這樣的一個問題"},{"start":723.942,"end":744.03,"text":"妳不需要立刻回答我因為妳們也需要查證嘛那我相關的資料包含這個就是細節我也會在會後提供給國防部但我希望如果妳們查到這個是屬實我非常確定是屬實啦因為這是我們的親朋好友在當兵的時候發生的事情啦所以沒有什麼可能是造假的啦好"},{"start":744.81,"end":770.33,"text":"然後再來我就希望就是說我們可以在這個議題上面就是要好好的去管理我們的部隊就是他自己個人可以有自己的政黨傾向他可以有他喜歡的網紅但是他不應該在播放舉光原地之前去播放有意識形態的網紅的影片還跟所有的軍人講說你看吧就是國民黨就是民眾黨其實就算他今天講說就是民進黨也不應該"},{"start":772.452,"end":793.886,"text":"不应该把我们社会上的政治意识形态带到军中里面还用一种教育的方式去PUA我们的国军我觉得这是一件不正确的事情所以我希望我们的顾部长可以针对此事详加调查未来不要再发声可以做到吗我会下去做一个比较详细的了解好谢谢"},{"start":797.062,"end":798.085,"text":"現在休息五分鐘休息期間國安局及相關的單位"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:36:07.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:36:07.710000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我想請國安局蔡局長以及交通部，還有中華電信。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2025-01-16T10:36:07.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:36:07.910000+08:00","text":"徐委員早。早。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:36:07.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:36:09.551000+08:00","text":"我們看到最近中華電信的國際海纜在野柳方向的海域底下中斷，大家都覺得這件事情是一個國安危機。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:36:09.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:36:43.494000+08:00","text":"我想要先詢問一下交通部跟中華電信，我們在相關地區的海纜有哪一些公司？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:36:43.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:36:47.615000+08:00","text":"是中華電信自己在製作的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:36:47.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:36:49.555000+08:00","text":"還是發包出去請其他公司製作？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳司長進生","start":"2025-01-16T10:36:50.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:36:51.256000+08:00","text":"報告委員，是不是請中華電信來說明？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:36:51.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:36:52.656000+08:00","text":"對，我剛剛就請中華電信跟交通部。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:36:56.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:36:59.259000+08:00","text":"海纜布纜很專業，所以都是委託專業公司布纜。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:37:00.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:37:04.301000+08:00","text":"我想請問有哪幾家公司來協助我們做專業布纜？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:37:06.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:37:09.242000+08:00","text":"像日本，然後像歐洲……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:37:10.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:37:13.944000+08:00","text":"沒有，我要你講每一家公司的名字，臺灣的部分，好不好？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:37:14.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:37:15.625000+08:00","text":"臺灣有沒有公司？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:37:15.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:37:17.065000+08:00","text":"沒有，都是國際的公司。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:37:18.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:37:22.507000+08:00","text":"臺灣沒有任何一家公司來協助中華電信製作電纜嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:37:25.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:37:26.583000+08:00","text":"電纜製作有，但是布纜是國際……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:37:27.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:37:28.744000+08:00","text":"布纜沒有，但是電纜有嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:37:29.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:37:32.407000+08:00","text":"我們這一次是電纜的部分被剪了嘛？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:37:33.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:37:36.791000+08:00","text":"不是，是國際的海纜，裡面是光纜。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:37:36.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:37:39.773000+08:00","text":"我們是國際的海纜，裡面是光纜？對。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:37:45.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:02.578000+08:00","text":"因為海底電纜是國際重要通訊手段，有關電網韌性的情事，除了這次的布建之外，未來有沒有可能臺灣自己在底下埋的電纜，也有被剪斷的機會跟可能性？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:04.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:07.441000+08:00","text":"這應該分國內陸纜跟國際海纜，國際海纜……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:07.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:11.938000+08:00","text":"沒有，海纜也有臺灣自己製造的，有吧？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:12.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:17.960000+08:00","text":"因為國際海纜事實上是綿延幾千公里，所以要特殊製作。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:18.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:20.581000+08:00","text":"據我的理解，大部分都是國外。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:21.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:23.582000+08:00","text":"那有國內的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:23.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:27.344000+08:00","text":"國內的可能要查一下，但在國內陸纜的部分是有的。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:27.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:28.184000+08:00","text":"我說的是海纜。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:28.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:30.405000+08:00","text":"海纜比較少。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:31.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:32.126000+08:00","text":"雖然比較少，但是有沒有？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:32.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:33.926000+08:00","text":"我可以查一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:34.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:36.207000+08:00","text":"什麼時候可以告訴我們？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:36.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:39.188000+08:00","text":"馬上就查，應該是沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:39.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:39.668000+08:00","text":"沒有嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:39.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:38:47.802000+08:00","text":"我們給大家看一下，實際上，我先前在國防及外交委員會的時候就已經質詢過了。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:38:48.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:39:17.501000+08:00","text":"這家中華電信的子公司──是方電訊，它是唯一一個合作的電信機房，它的服務包含中國大陸跟香港，在整個是方電訊的東南亞布局裡面，它包含做的是國際中立機房、相關的網路交換中心，還有臺灣主要相關的公有交換平臺的關口，以及臺灣主要國際海纜的閘口。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:39:18.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:39:28.286000+08:00","text":"我請問一下，這個臺灣國際海纜的閘口，是方電訊是否有跟我們臺灣這邊的中華電信有合作？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:39:30.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:39:37.010000+08:00","text":"剛才談到的，我們的跨離島之間的海纜，還有剛才談到的主要海纜都是中華電信自己，沒有經過是方。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:39:37.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:39:38.243000+08:00","text":"沒有經過是方？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:39:38.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:39:48.027000+08:00","text":"來，我們看下一張簡報，好，這個是我們從櫃買公司上面下載下來的，因為他們是上市公司，它上面的5.1是怎麼寫呢？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:39:48.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:40:13.658000+08:00","text":"TPCX國際海纜介接中心，它上面寫「台灣唯一公有及私有海纜匯集的IDC電信大樓，可以快速提供海纜交換及備援服務」，上面寫的私有海纜業者等等、公有的都是接到這個IDC大樓裡面，包含了淡水海纜站、八里海纜站、頭城海纜站跟枋山海纜站。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:40:17.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:40:32.549000+08:00","text":"因為是方電訊是中華電信的子公司，所以我才會提出這個問題，它不是單純的一家普通的公司，它是中華電信的子公司，所以我想問一下，如果這個是方電訊所設立的相關的電纜被中國大陸剪掉的話，對臺灣有什麼影響？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:40:35.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:40:38.243000+08:00","text":"我想會有部分影響，但是如同這一次所發生的情況……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:40:38.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:40:44.245000+08:00","text":"沒有，我現在在跟你講其他的，因為我們就是舉一反三，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:40:44.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:40:46.746000+08:00","text":"就我現在問你的問題，你回答我問你的問題就好。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:40:47.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:40:52.748000+08:00","text":"以中華來講，這一次我們調度的電纜、海纜全部都是中華自己，沒有經過是方……","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:40:53.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:40:56.102000+08:00","text":"不是嘛，我就問你說是方有沒有做這個嘛？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:40:56.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:41:00.825000+08:00","text":"它有它自己的服務，因為它也是一個上市櫃公司，它有它的運作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:41:01.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:41:04.527000+08:00","text":"是，但它有沒有跟中華電信合作來做相關的海纜？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:41:05.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:41:10.211000+08:00","text":"如果今天這個海纜被剪掉之後，對於整個臺灣是否會有影響？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:41:10.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:41:13.112000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這裡面有兩個重要的字叫「備援」。對。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:41:14.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:41:17.573000+08:00","text":"意思就是說，如果中華自己擁有的海纜全部都斷了，全部！","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:41:18.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:41:21.674000+08:00","text":"我們會利用是方的，但是是全部都斷。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:41:21.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:41:27.155000+08:00","text":"好，那我們再看前面，這家是方電訊，它是中華電信的子公司，這個沒有錯吧？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:41:27.155000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:41:28.155000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:41:27.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:41:50.872000+08:00","text":"但是這家是方電訊卻跟中國大陸非常多家的電信公司都在合作，我們讓這一家是方電訊，簡報這個字比較小，可是你可以看得到，包含中國電信、包含中國大陸幾乎所有的電信，它還提供中國大陸優質服務，跟中國大陸的多家電信業者進行緊密的合作。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:41:51.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:42:09.065000+08:00","text":"我的意思是我們在考量國家安全的時候，你都說了，如果今天所有的電纜被剪掉的話，是方電訊可以提供的是備援，但是它卻同時在跟中國大陸做這麼密切的電信來往，這對我們的國家來說，其實它就有可能是一個破口。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:42:09.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:42:17.489000+08:00","text":"所以既然它是我們的子公司，我們跟他們之間在討論這些問題的時候，難道我們沒有任何的主導權嗎？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:42:17.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:42:23.372000+08:00","text":"是，我跟委員報告一下，它的事業就是做一個國際的接口……","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:42:25.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:42:31.854000+08:00","text":"國際歸國際，因為你們最喜歡講的一句話叫做其他國家沒有要侵略臺灣，但中共有啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:42:31.854000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:42:32.854000+08:00","text":"不是，我要講的是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:42:32.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:42:33.035000+08:00","text":"不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:42:33.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:42:34.975000+08:00","text":"你們最喜歡講的不是這句嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:42:34.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:42:54.241000+08:00","text":"所以我今天只講中國大陸，你不要跟我扯其他國際的，東南亞什麼的，我們都接受啊，但問題是你剛剛講了，是方電訊是可以作為如果我們的電纜都出狀況時的一個備援，但它同時的合作夥伴大多都是中國大陸，這個狀況你們要怎麼解釋呢？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:42:54.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:43:02.424000+08:00","text":"我想說明的是，因為舉個例子，臺灣的民眾要看大陸的內容或者要跟大陸通訊是不是一定要有一個接口？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"林總經理榮賜","start":"2025-01-16T10:43:03.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:43:13.128000+08:00","text":"這個接口事實上它扮演的就是這種角色，除非我們臺灣跟大陸不接觸，完全斷絕通訊，否則的話，一定要有人扮演臺灣跟……","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:43:13.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:43:16.929000+08:00","text":"為什麼不能是另外一家的公司來協助這個服務呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:43:17.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:43:28.814000+08:00","text":"因為它已經涉及到所謂的電纜，是跟國家安全有關的，我沒有說不讓兩岸之間有溝通跟服務的可能性，但為什麼我們只能有一家公司要把這些所有的東西都用完呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:43:30.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:43:40.359000+08:00","text":"顧部長不用上來，但是大家也可以想一想這件事情，如果真的發生兩岸之間有衝突的嚴重性，我相信蔡明彥局長也非常清楚。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:43:40.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:43:49.089000+08:00","text":"你們可以先下去了，我接下來要請教的是國防部長，顧部長請上臺。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:43:50.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:43:56.333000+08:00","text":"蔡局長可以先回去，謝謝，但是我剛剛講的，你們要想一想這個風險性。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:43:58.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:44:03.016000+08:00","text":"部長，我這邊要跟你請教一點，希望主席可以給我一點時間。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:44:04.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:44:24.046000+08:00","text":"大家知道現在有一個網紅叫做八炯，他先前在他的YouTube上說，臺灣有十幾、二十萬人領有中國身分證，而且一個城市有三、四千人在排隊，可是內政部長查詢之後，發現其實不到十個人。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:44:24.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:44:53.720000+08:00","text":"其實我也算過，如果有二十萬的國人同時擁有中華人民共和國身分證，大概就代表有1%的臺灣人擁有中華人民共和國的身分證，假設再配上國軍志願役員額十六萬人來說，1%裡面可能有一千六百人潛藏於部隊當中，當然，我們在簽志願役的時候，都有載明不得具有雙重國籍，如果連義務役都計算在內的話，可能更多。","quality":0.785},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:44:54.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:45:08.215000+08:00","text":"部長，劉世芳部長已經查過了，他說查完之後不到十個人，你覺得臺灣可能有二十萬人同時擁有中華人民共和國跟中華民國身分證的嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2025-01-16T10:45:09.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:45:19.234000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，據我的了解，這有不同情形，就是有身分證、定居證，還有居住證……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:45:19.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:45:20.894000+08:00","text":"沒有，他講的是身分證。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:45:22.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:45:22.754000+08:00","text":"對，有三個不同的……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2025-01-16T10:45:22.754000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:45:23.754000+08:00","text":"其實有三個不同的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:45:23.754000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:45:24.754000+08:00","text":"對，我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2025-01-16T10:45:22.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:45:41.279000+08:00","text":"有三個不同，如果要拿到中國身分證，那他就要放棄我們這邊的戶籍，然後臺胞證也沒有了，這個部分，我想可能要有一些區隔。對。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2025-01-16T10:45:42.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:45:55.784000+08:00","text":"如果他放棄這邊的戶籍，甚至放棄掉臺胞證的話，我想我們應該可以想辦法查出來，我們的國軍裡面有沒有這樣的一個狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:45:55.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:46:18.114000+08:00","text":"是，是，但其實內政部已經幫我們查了，內政部查的是全體國人，當然也包括軍人在內，所以他講有二十萬人的這件事情，最後劉世芳部長已經出來說明，內政部查了全國國人，當然也包含國軍，只有不到十個人而已，所以坦白說，這其實就是一個假訊息。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:46:19.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:46:24.157000+08:00","text":"既然內政部是負責這部分的主管機關，包含人口，部長表示經查證只有十個人。","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:46:24.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:47:06.788000+08:00","text":"那我現在要講的事情就跟國防部有關，五三工兵群工兵支援營裝備連的連輔導長林姓中尉，在113年12月19號（四）播放莒光園地之前，先播放了這個影片給國軍弟兄看，等於是去PUA我們的國軍，還說某一些政黨「跟中共一定有瓜葛」、「坦白講，就是國民黨跟民眾黨」，「一開始把民眾黨講成民主黨」，感覺完全沒有什麼政治素養。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:47:07.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:47:08.289000+08:00","text":"我的意思是，國軍軍隊應該保持中立，這個部長你認同嗎？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2025-01-16T10:47:22.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:47:26.899000+08:00","text":"我想國安法裡面有要求國軍要維持政治中立。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:47:27.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:47:44.815000+08:00","text":"對，在看莒光園地之前，這個輔導長先播放剛剛那一個假訊息影片，告訴國軍說有二十萬人擁有中華人民共和國的身分證，然後再告訴大家說，就是國民黨跟民眾黨做的。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:47:46.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:47:53.518000+08:00","text":"部長，你覺得這個輔導長這樣的做法是合理的嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2025-01-16T10:47:54.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:48:05.901000+08:00","text":"因為委員剛剛才告訴我這樣的訊息，我想我必須確切了解整個事件的脈絡，才好回答委員的問題……","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:48:06.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:48:06.021000+08:00","text":"沒有問題。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2025-01-16T10:48:06.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:48:09.082000+08:00","text":"我現在沒有辦法立即回答委員這樣的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:48:11.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:48:30.610000+08:00","text":"對，你不需要立刻回答我，因為你們也需要查證，相關的資料，包含細節部分，我會在會後提供給國防部，如果你們查到這個屬實，其實我非常確定是事實，因為這是我們的親朋好友當兵時發生的事情，所以沒有什麼可能是造假的。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:48:32.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:48:56.230000+08:00","text":"再來，在這個議題上，我希望部長要好好管理我們的部隊，這個輔導長可以有個人自己的政黨傾向，也可以有他喜歡的網紅，但是他不應該在播放莒光園地之前，先播放有意識形態的網紅影片，還跟所有的軍人講「就是國民黨跟民眾黨」。","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:48:56.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:49:09.299000+08:00","text":"就算他今天講就是民進黨，也不應該，不應該把社會上的政治意識形態帶到軍中裡面，還用一種教育的方式去PUA國軍，我覺得這是一件不正確的事情。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:49:09.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:49:15.603000+08:00","text":"所以我希望顧部長可以針對此事詳加調查，未來不要再發生，可以做到嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2025-01-16T10:49:16.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:49:19.786000+08:00","text":"我會下去做比較詳細的瞭解。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-16T10:49:20.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:49:20.346000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:49:20.346000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:49:22.204000+08:00","text":"謝謝徐巧芯委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:49:22.204000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:49:24.062000+08:00","text":"部長請回。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:49:24.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-16T10:49:25.065000+08:00","text":"現在休息5分鐘，休息期間，國安局及相關單位可就臨時提案內容再進行溝通。","quality":0.581},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:49:25.565000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:49:26.707857+08:00","text":"休息（10時49分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:49:27.007857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:49:28.722143+08:00","text":"繼續開會（10時57分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:49:29.022143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:49:30.736429+08:00","text":"我們繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:49:31.036429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:49:35.322143+08:00","text":"現在處理臨時提案，請議事人員宣讀。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:49:35.622143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:49:36.765000+08:00","text":"臨時提案","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:49:37.065000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:50:25.636429+08:00","text":"鑒於中國利用灰色地帶侵擾我海域情況日益猖狂，近日更發生權宜輪疑似割斷我海底電纜乙案，事件發生後雖經海巡人員及時趕赴現場，然因國內航港單位及港務公司作業規定，以致第一線執法人員未能扣留相關證物，不利後續相關司法調查、民事求償程序進行；建請國安單位應檢討並確立此等惡意破壞，危及國安案件發生時，相關單位執法規定，及航港單位優先配合事項，俾能有效打擊犯罪，維護我國家安全。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:50:25.936429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:50:31.936429+08:00","text":"陳冠廷　　沈伯洋　　林楚茵　　羅美玲　　林憶君　　王義川　　王定宇","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:50:32.236429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:50:36.236429+08:00","text":"請問提案委員需不需要說明？謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-16T10:50:36.536429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:51:04.250714+08:00","text":"今天幾位委員有特別提到港務公司的部分，包括林委員也有，等一下質詢時我們也會講，對於這個部分，我們希望透過臨時提案的方式來督促相關單位，不要到時候有那種破壞但是沒有辦法究責的狀況，這個部分再請各部會來協助。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:51:04.550714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:51:09.693571+08:00","text":"請問國安局對此提案內容有沒有什麼意見？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2025-01-16T10:51:09.993571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:51:42.850714+08:00","text":"剛剛秘書單位宣讀的內容好像不是協調的內容，文字上我們剛剛都有做過一些溝通討論，特別是針對提案內容第五行的部分，我們建議修改為「建請國安單位協助執法機關檢討並確立此等惡意破壞，危及國安案件發生時」，後面的文字沒有更改，這部分再麻煩列入文字的修改。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-16T10:51:43.150714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:51:45.150714+08:00","text":"現在有幾個版本？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-16T10:51:45.450714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:51:51.736429+08:00","text":"交通部跟國安局的版本，是不是請交通部也來講一下？","quality":0},{"speaker":"何主任文智","start":"2025-01-16T10:51:52.036429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:52:05.465000+08:00","text":"交通部報告，原則上第3行修正為「請航港局及港務公司配合第一線執法人員扣留證物，以利後續相關司法調查」，以上。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:52:05.765000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:52:10.050714+08:00","text":"請問其他在場委員有沒有什麼意見？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:52:10.350714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:52:11.350714+08:00","text":"（無）沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:52:11.650714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:52:15.365000+08:00","text":"請議事人員宣讀提案修正文字。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:52:15.665000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:53:03.093571+08:00","text":"鑒於中國利用灰色地帶侵擾我海域情況日益猖狂，近日更發生權宜輪疑似割斷我海底電纜乙案，事件發生後雖經海巡人員及時趕赴現場，請航港單位及港務公司配合第一線執法人員扣留相關證物，以利後續相關司法調查、民事求償程序進行；建請國安單位協助執法機關檢討並確立此等惡意破壞，危及國安案件發生時，相關單位執法規定，及航港單位優先配合事項，俾能有效打擊犯罪，維護我國家安全。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:53:03.393571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:53:06.250714+08:00","text":"請問陳委員這樣可以嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-16T10:53:06.550714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:53:07.693571+08:00","text":"可以，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:53:07.993571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:53:10.279286+08:00","text":"好，本提案修正通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-16T10:53:10.579286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-16T10:53:14.293571+08:00","text":"接下來請陳冠廷委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}