{"error":false,"id":["158908"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":158908,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158908","日期":"2025-01-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-35-27","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":27,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-01-16T10:36:07+08:00","結束時間":"2025-01-16T10:49:34+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:27","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e6909b4ca57c061235135df8ec9e1fae29ae781c7e1649b4e1c9837952b46cc3e766b101dd82558b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"10:36:07 - 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徐委員早我們看到最近在中華電信的國際電纜海纜 野柳方向的海域底下中斷這件事情大家都覺得這是一個國安危機那我想要先詢問一下"},{"start":26.391,"end":45.676,"text":"交通部跟中華電信交通部跟中華電信那我們這一個在相關地區的海嵐有哪一些公司有哪一些公司是中華電信自己在製作的嗎還是發包出去請其他公司製作包委員是不是請中華電信來對我剛剛講中華電信跟這個交通部"},{"start":48.517,"end":75.507,"text":"報告委員海蘭布蘭是很專業所以都是委託專業公司布蘭委託專業公司那我想請問有哪幾家公司來協助我們做專業布蘭像這個日本然後像沒有我要講你每一家公司的名字台灣的部分好不好我們台灣有沒有公司沒有這都是國際公司好沒有我們台灣沒有任何一家公司來協助我們的中華電信來做電纜的製作嗎"},{"start":78.062,"end":93.673,"text":"電纜製作有但是布纜這個是布纜沒有嗎但是電纜有嗎那但是我們這一次是電纜的部分被剪了嗎不是是國際的海纜裡面是光纜我們是國際的海纜裡面是光纜那所以說呢好"},{"start":94.724,"end":122.483,"text":"我們在講到的事情是那未來我們海底電纜因為國際中央通訊手段那這個有關於電網的韌性情勢發生有沒有可能除了我們這次的部件之外有沒有可能未來我們台灣自己在底下埋的電纜也有被剪斷的機會跟可能性這應該分國內陸纜跟國際的海纜部分國際海纜 海纜也有我們台灣自己製造的"},{"start":124.758,"end":153.729,"text":"有吧因為國際海欄它事實上是要綿延幾千公里所以事實上是要特殊製作那據我的理解大部分都是國外大部分那有國內的嗎國內的我可能要查一下但是在國內的木欄的部分是有的我說的是海欄海欄比較少比較少但是有沒有我可以查一下你可以查一下什麼時候可以告訴我們應該馬上就查一下馬上應該是沒有啦應該是沒有沒有嗎來我們給大家看一下"},{"start":154.48,"end":154.501,"text":"好"},{"start":155.478,"end":184.378,"text":"其實實際上我先前在國安這個國防外交委員會的時候我們就已經指訓過了在這家中華電信的這個子公司裡面世芳電訊它是唯一一個電信機房的合作它的服務呢包含是中國大陸跟香港在整個世芳電訊的東南亞佈局裡面它包含做的是國際的中立金房還有相關的這個網路交換中心還有呢這個台灣主要的相關的公友交換平台"},{"start":184.958,"end":210.03,"text":"的關口跟什麼呢台灣主要國際海欄的閘口我請問一下這個台灣國際海欄的閘口是否是由電信這個四方電訊有跟我們台灣這邊中華電信有合作剛才談到的我們的離島之間的海欄還有剛才談到主要海欄都是中華自己沒有經過四方"},{"start":210.543,"end":236.253,"text":"沒有經過釋放來我們看下一張再看下一張這個是我們從這個櫃買公司上面下載下來的因為他們是上市公司它上面五之一怎麼寫呢TPCX國際海嵐借街中心它上面寫台灣唯一公有的私有海嵐匯集的IDC電信大樓可以快速提供海嵐交匯的備援服務上面寫的這個私有海嵐電子"},{"start":237.313,"end":265.549,"text":"等等的那公有的都是接到這個IC大樓裡面那包含了淡水的海嵐站巴黎的海嵐站投誠的海嵐站跟方山的海嵐站我想要問的事情是如果中國大陸對這些因為世方電訊是中華電信的子公司所以我才會提出這個問題它不是單純的一家普通的公司它是中華電信的子公司所以我想問一下如果這個世方電訊它所設立的相關的電纜被中國大陸減掉的話對台灣有什麼影響"},{"start":268.303,"end":285.768,"text":"我想會有部分影響,但是竹農這一次所發生的情況沒有,我現在是在跟你講說其他的嘛,因為我們就是舉一反三嘛,對不對?我就現在問你的問題,你回答我問你的問題就好了以中華來講,這一次我們調度的電纜、海纜全部都是中華製衣,沒有經過四方"},{"start":286.741,"end":303.211,"text":"不是嘛 我就問你說世芳有沒有做這個嘛它有它自己的一個服務因為它也是一個上市櫃公司它有它的運作是 但它有沒有跟中華電信去合作來做相關的海欄那如果今天這個海欄被剪掉之後那對於整個台灣是否會有影響"},{"start":303.931,"end":328.017,"text":"跟委員報告這裡面有兩個中華字叫備援那意思就是說如果中華自己擁有的海南全部都斷了全部我們會利用四方的那但是是全部都斷好那我們再看前面這家四方電訊它是中華電信的子公司這個沒有錯吧那但是這家四方電訊它卻跟中國大陸的非常多家的電信公司都在合作"},{"start":328.757,"end":352.481,"text":"那我們讓這一家釋放電訊這次比較小可是你可以看得到包含中國電信包含中國大陸幾乎所有的電信它還提供中國大陸的優質服務跟中國大陸的多家電信業者進行緊密的合作我的意思是我們在考量國家安全的時候你都說了如果今天所有的電纜被剪掉的話釋放電訊它可以提供的是備援"},{"start":353.181,"end":376.392,"text":"那但是他卻同時的在跟中國大陸做這麼密切的電信的來往那這對我們的國家來說其他就有可能是一個破口所以既然他是我們的子公司那我們跟他們之間在討論這些問題的時候難道我們沒有任何的主導權嗎是 我跟委員報告一下他的事業就是做一個國際的接口"},{"start":378.032,"end":404.78,"text":"國際歸國際我們現在因為你們最喜歡講的一句話叫做國際沒有要侵 其他國家沒有要侵略台灣但中共有啊不是嗎 你們最喜歡講的不是這句嗎所以我今天只講中國大陸嘛你不要跟我扯其他國際的東南亞什麼的我們都接受啊但問題是四方電訊你剛剛講了它是可以作為我們電纜如果都出狀況的時候的一個備援但它同時的合作夥伴大多都是中國大陸"},{"start":405.64,"end":429.949,"text":"那這個狀況你們要怎麼解釋呢我想說明說因為舉個例子台灣的民眾要看大陸的內容或者要跟大陸通訊是不是一定要有一個接口那這個接口事實上他扮演的就是這種角色那除非我們台灣跟大陸不接觸完全斷絕通訊否則的話一定要有人扮演台灣跟那為什麼不能是另外一家的公司來協助這個服務呢"},{"start":430.349,"end":456.341,"text":"因為它已經涉及到所謂的電纜是跟國家安全有關的啊我沒有說不讓兩兩岸之間有溝通跟服務的可能性但為什麼我們只能有一家公司要把這些所有的東西都用完呢我這邊有特色那顧部長不用上來但是大家也可以想一想這件事情它如果真的發生說兩岸之間有衝突的時候的嚴重性喔我相信蔡明彥部長也非常清楚喔那你們可以先下去了我接下來要請教的是蔡部長好"},{"start":457.887,"end":479.998,"text":"那個,我要請到國防部長吧,不好意思,那個顧部長請上台,謝謝,不好意思,那個蔡長可以先回去,謝謝,但是我剛剛講了,你們要想一想這個風險性,想一想這個風險性,那個部長,我這邊要跟你請教一個,希望那個主席可以給我一點時間,就是呢,大家知道現在有一個網紅叫做八九,"},{"start":480.658,"end":497.066,"text":"那他先前呢在他的這個YouTube上面他講說台灣呢有十幾二十萬人是領有中國身分證而且一個城市有三四千人是在排隊的可是我們內政部長去查詢之後發現說呢其實不到十個人"},{"start":497.606,"end":523.217,"text":"那我就算過如果有20萬的國人同時擁有中華人民共和國的身分證的話大概就是代表說有1%的台灣人都擁有中華民國的身分證那假設我們再配上國軍的志願役的原額16萬人來說一趴裡面可能有1600人去潛藏於部隊當中那我們在簽志願役的時候當然有載民不得具有雙重國籍"},{"start":524.617,"end":541.215,"text":"所以如果沒有算一五一的話可能更多所以部長你覺得有可能說這個劉世芳部長已經查了啦她說查完之後不到十個人你就有可能說台灣有二十萬人同時擁有中華人民共和國的身分證跟這個中華民國身分證嗎"},{"start":542.732,"end":558.355,"text":"跟委員報告我的了解是像他有不同的一個有身份證有定居證他講的是身份證有居住證他有三個不同的如果要拿到中國的身份證的話其實他整個就要放棄我們這邊的戶籍然後台胞證也沒有了"},{"start":570.057,"end":591.005,"text":"所以這個部分的話我想可能要有一些區隔那如果說他放棄這邊的戶籍的話然後甚至放棄掉台胞證的話我想我們應該可以想辦法來查得出來在我們的國軍裡面有沒有這樣的一個狀況但是其實內政部已經幫我們去查啦因為內政部他查的是全國國人全體國人當然也包括我們的軍人在內嘛"},{"start":597.367,"end":620.499,"text":"所以他就講說有20萬人這件事情最後劉士芳部長他已經出來講說內政部查是他是查全國國人當然也包含國軍只有不到10個人而已不到10個人所以呢這其實就是一個假訊息我坦白說因為既然內政部長他是負責管理這些包含人口的他去查只有10個人那我現在要講的事情是跟國防部有關的"},{"start":620.879,"end":648.178,"text":"就是說呢我們在113年的12月19號的禮拜四在53工兵群的工兵支援營的裝備連裡面裝備連的連輔導長林信的中尉在12月19號禮拜四要放舉光原地之前先放了這個影片而且呢放這個影片給我們國軍弟兄看他還講說"},{"start":650.419,"end":661.289,"text":"他們等於是去PUA我們的國軍說呢 你看某一些政黨跟中共一定有瓜葛我坦白講就是國民黨跟民眾黨一開始還把民眾黨講成民主黨這個感覺完全沒有什麼這個政治素養所以我的意思是說軍人 國軍軍隊應該要保持中立這個部長您認同嗎"},{"start":675.175,"end":697.835,"text":"我想在國安法裡面有要求國軍要維持政治中立對所以他在看這個舉光原地之前這個輔導長先播放剛剛那樣子的一個假訊息的影片然後去告訴我們的國軍說你看有20萬人都有這個中華人民共和國的身份證然後再告訴大家說就是國民黨跟民眾黨做的"},{"start":698.576,"end":722.082,"text":"那個部長您覺得這樣子的一個輔導長他做這樣子的一個做法是合理的嗎我想委員因為剛剛才告訴我這樣子的一個訊息我想我必須要去深切的了解他整個的一個脈絡我才好回答委員的問題我現在沒有辦法立即下回答委員這樣的一個問題"},{"start":723.942,"end":744.03,"text":"妳不需要立刻回答我因為妳們也需要查證嘛那我相關的資料包含這個就是細節我也會在會後提供給國防部但我希望如果妳們查到這個是屬實我非常確定是屬實啦因為這是我們的親朋好友在當兵的時候發生的事情啦所以沒有什麼可能是造假的啦好"},{"start":744.81,"end":770.33,"text":"然後再來我就希望就是說我們可以在這個議題上面就是要好好的去管理我們的部隊就是他自己個人可以有自己的政黨傾向他可以有他喜歡的網紅但是他不應該在播放舉光原地之前去播放有意識形態的網紅的影片還跟所有的軍人講說你看吧就是國民黨就是民眾黨其實就算他今天講說就是民進黨也不應該"},{"start":772.452,"end":793.886,"text":"不应该把我们社会上的政治意识形态带到军中里面还用一种教育的方式去PUA我们的国军我觉得这是一件不正确的事情所以我希望我们的顾部长可以针对此事详加调查未来不要再发声可以做到吗我会下去做一个比较详细的了解好谢谢"},{"start":797.062,"end":798.085,"text":"現在休息五分鐘休息期間國安局及相關的單位"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}