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而且是穩定的在維持這個長期穩定的過程當中台灣扮演一個關鍵的一個角色我們如何加強自己的國防力量這個才是我們現在能夠自主權力要做到的事情那會不會 會不會容許我們部長來說來 那個 顧部長 因您看我看 就我的看法"},{"start":326.141,"end":354.551,"text":"印太區域是現在美國這個全球戰略的重心印太區域不管在經濟成長地緣政治跟軍事安全層面都跟美國優先的這個政策跟美國國家的繁榮發展是息息相關的所以美國不可能會放棄在印太的重大利益而台灣在第一島鏈的這樣子的一個中心的一個重要的一個地緣戰略的位置他不可能"},{"start":355.595,"end":357.686,"text":"不可能容忍印太區域"},{"start":359.046,"end":385.299,"text":"包括台海區域的和平穩定的現狀被破壞因為一旦被破壞美國喪失的是美國的重大貢獻力量問題是以前拜登當總統的時候他很明確的來表達防衛台灣的說法但是現在就是說川普一上任結果很多媒體什麼問他他都含糊而且沒有很明確"},{"start":386.6,"end":413.534,"text":"會不會是因時制宜跟林委員報告戰略模糊就是說現在一直有在爭辯所謂的戰略清晰或戰略模糊我們可以從過去以來一直看到美國長期以來的政策都是採取一個模糊的一個政策因為他不想把話說死不想的話即使是拜登你講的拜登幾次他們事後也有所調整就是說"},{"start":414.67,"end":429.473,"text":"他們還是要維持一貫性的戰略模式的策略他這樣的一個戰略模式他們認為更具有嚇阻的效果這樣子的一個嚇阻的效果他們會讓中國沒有辦法能夠去"},{"start":430.466,"end":451.998,"text":"輕易的認定說他一旦對台灣有全面的侵犯的這些武力或者是用威嚇的行徑的時候美國不會介入他們沒有辦法把握美國不會介入他們在沒有辦法把握美國不會介入的時候他要進行這個全面侵犯的計畫他的計算上會變得非常非常的複雜"},{"start":452.958,"end":467.927,"text":"因為他要考慮到那駐日的美軍的部分他要不要看看他在經過宮古海峽的時候他要駐日的美軍或者是日本會有如何的反應他在經過巴士海峽或巴麗塘海峽的時候菲律賓會做如何的回應"},{"start":468.507,"end":491.344,"text":"但是你可以看到美國整個佈局在軍事的佈局上面他push這個日本要提高國防經費以外他在日本的這個南西諸島上面不斷的部署這個相關的這些反艦飛彈在跟菲律賓相關的軍事基地上面他也不斷的在北里宋島那個地方有相關的這些基地存在這個就是產生一種威嚇一種嚇阻一種以這個"},{"start":494.426,"end":499.398,"text":"展現這樣子的一個同盟的合作跟實力來維持和平的一種方式院長"},{"start":500.529,"end":527.211,"text":"像川普選前選後的言行決策都充斥著美國優先那兩岸問題如此那面對國際政經局勢更是如此只是在美國優先的立場下請問院長你認為我們台灣有什麼籌碼能夠在美台關係當中達到雙贏的結果因您看"},{"start":528.518,"end":535.15,"text":"當然談判講究委員所做的籌碼但我始終認為說台灣最大的有利的利基在哪裡我剛剛說過"},{"start":536.069,"end":562.397,"text":"我們在半導體產業上我們在製造業上我們的關鍵領先的技術跟我們在產業工業的地位這個是我們最大的利基但是我認為我們要對自己負責任就是要向全世界展現我們有防衛自己的決心跟能力那我如果展現呢就是我們把國家的能力國防能力能夠提高所以政府總統才會在國家高層會議當中國安高層會議當中提到"},{"start":564.478,"end":582.933,"text":"我們會把GDP3%當作我們國防力量維持的一個重心這個向全世界做一個很清楚的宣示所以我也希望大院能夠支持政府這樣的方向未來我們達到這樣的方向就是向全世界發出一個最強烈的訊息我們要捍衛自己的決心跟能力"},{"start":583.493,"end":593.786,"text":"我認為啦相信不管再潮再野當然我們一定要自保自衛就是說我們這個在買武器方面"},{"start":596.38,"end":624.151,"text":"這方面其實我認為我們要買就是要買比較先進的武器不是他們已經不要的然後就是我們去買那些那個實在是老百姓都看不下去我認為這一點我相信國防部那個部長你真的要好好的思考國家國人跟國軍最大的需求去做這樣的因為上次你看給我們一些東西有都已經花沒了我相信你自己清楚了各位委員報告"},{"start":625.231,"end":647.2,"text":"那個您講的那個是所謂的PDA就是總統的提供權他這個是無償的一個軍演那第一次的時候的一些因為他這個倉儲保管的一些問題所以產生了一些潮濕的一些狀況但後來在進行後續的這些相關一樣是這些無償軍演的時候這些狀況全部都改善"},{"start":647.78,"end":663.499,"text":"而且這樣子的一個檢討報告不是我們提出來的是美國自己提出來說所以美國在對各國的這個即使是無償的軍演他們也是會有一定的這個把關我相信在"},{"start":664.92,"end":678.605,"text":"軍演上面都這樣的一個認真我們在軍售的這個相關的議題上面我們當然是跟美國會討論什麼是最符合我們 照敵情威脅最符合我們防衛作戰需求所需要的相關的武器裝備"},{"start":681.027,"end":698.68,"text":"就拿台美租稅協定的洽簽進度來看縱使美國眾議院再度通過美台快速減免雙重課稅的法案還是要經過美國參議院來通過以及美國總統川普的簽簽"},{"start":700.501,"end":725.53,"text":"那才可能生效才會發生這個效率那我請問院長拜登時期的談判條件到目前的川普政府的美國優先的立場你認為台灣能夠占到便宜還是好還是好處呢嗎你認為會不會占到好處我們不想占任何國家的便宜雙方基於平等互惠的立場上"},{"start":726.885,"end":740.111,"text":"避免雙重瞌睡是最近這段期間以來回到台灣的我們在海外的台橋很重視的一個問題也是產業界希望政府能夠努力去達到的問題我們勢必在"},{"start":742.312,"end":765.786,"text":"雙方的21世紀貿易倡議的這個基礎底下持續往上進去那麼內容到底我們能夠達到什麼樣的一個階段我覺得不是占便宜而是雙方互惠雙方對當然我們是希望有對等公平這樣來這個洽簽這個整個協定的進展你認為有沒有可能會不會"},{"start":767.148,"end":793.62,"text":"加快他的速度在拜登總統任期的後期我們已經有一個十足的進展但是新總統上來之後這個進展有一些停下來改變是停下來而已他可能重點不在這裡財政部以及我們相關的部會以及對我們的談判都一直持續在進行是不是容許莊部長來做說明跟委員報告其實川普政府這一屆的國會新上任以後"},{"start":794.079,"end":817.6,"text":"其實在1月15號眾院已經通過了ADTA就是避免雙重課稅的法案已經通過那現在就在參議院那內容事實上跟上一次的是相同的完全相同那接下來我們其實我們雙方的財政部一直在進行技術面的一些協商是把相關的定義弄清楚未來一定也會在平等互惠的原則下來簽相關的協定"},{"start":819.687,"end":842.963,"text":"我希望說當然越快越好院長日本央行行長警告全球經濟前景存在非常重大的不確定性那制定貨幣政策必須全盤考量考慮到美國政策對全球經濟以及金融市場的影響那上個禮拜台金院舉辦景氣動向的記者會"},{"start":846.155,"end":867.535,"text":"那張建議院長表示根據央行的預測今年通膨率低於2%但實際通膨需考量到天災氣候等等這些變化以及美國總統川普上任後在關稅措施是不是會影響整個物價來推升通膨"},{"start":868.576,"end":879.871,"text":"像這些都要花更多的時間來觀察那上個禮拜的主計總署這個經濟預測記者會上上修今年CPI年增率這個達到1.94%那我請問院長按照預測"},{"start":886.36,"end":906.252,"text":"整個通膨率的數據結果來看去年年底行政院物價穩定小組會議啊延長關鍵原物料的這些稅負的減增這些措施那到今年三月底你認為這項減增措施是不是還有繼續延長的必要"},{"start":908.299,"end":933.19,"text":"把CPI維持在百分之二以下一直是政府長年持續努力的一個目標也符合我們二上一下一平衡的作用就是把CPI維持在百分之二以下那台灣一直有比較健全的財政的體質包括我們有穩定的金融秩序那這個都有助於我們在穩定物價的這個過程但是總統也一再指示"},{"start":933.649,"end":959.57,"text":"物價的穩定要列為民生重要指標的首要所以在前幾天上禮拜的施政報告當中我也把穩定物價當作未來五項我們必須即刻去面對的課題所以政府會持續的這個精準的掌握到國內外各種的局勢我們當然知道物價的穩定跟國際情勢也相當有大的關係但我們精準的掌握到它我們也精準的"},{"start":961.099,"end":980.344,"text":"穩住國內的各項的供需的秩序我想這個才是現在我們該做的事情那剛剛我請教的像這些原物料稅負減增到今年三月底那你認為這些減增措施是不是還有必要再延長或者是應該要有機會來退場"},{"start":982.647,"end":991.256,"text":"這個我們在行政院交由鄭麗君副院長所組織的物價穩定小組的過程當中一定是持續針對這樣的方向在做"},{"start":992.423,"end":1012.643,"text":"能夠讓整個物價穩定的措施都在那個小組上面去討論那日前他們已經討論過了他會持續在每個月做一個很精準的去掌控那如果說必須要延長才有助於物價而且這個延長對國內的產業又是正面的話那我會尊重物價穩定小組的作業"},{"start":1014.707,"end":1029.529,"text":"那我再請教因為房屋稅2.0依據今年5月起開徵自住房屋新增需有本人以及配偶直系親屬設戶籍為要件那2025年1月媒體報導"},{"start":1031.626,"end":1052.399,"text":"原來這些舊置有720萬戶自住的房屋其中大約有128萬戶沒有設戶期如果3月24號以前沒有完成登記就會喪失他自住的資格自住最低的稅率跟非自住最高的稅率差4.8倍"},{"start":1055.287,"end":1073.837,"text":"那請問我想財政部應該很清楚經過地方政府兩次計畫輔導通知後目前大約還有多少戶自住的房屋沒有遷入戶籍各位報告這個部分還是要靠地方政府要去持續的努力去努力讓民眾知道就是說"},{"start":1075.042,"end":1098.951,"text":"適用自用住宅的稅率的話那就要趕快去辦戶籍登記這個部分跟地價稅是一致的也就是說過往在房屋稅的時候沒有這樣的要求可是現在呢我們就一致讓地價稅的課徵自用住宅也是要在這個土地上的房屋設戶籍才能適用所以這是一致的那這個部分我們會持續督促地方政府能夠趕快最起碼你財政部要掌控啊要了解啊"},{"start":1101.392,"end":1129.41,"text":"院長我再請教因為台灣在2021年提出加入CPTPP的申請那到現在還沒有獲得全體會員的共識會員國的共識那歌詞討論來加入是宜那我請問CPTPP的這個成員國目前有12個國家那外交部先前答覆本席的時候是CPTPP的成員國中態度上"},{"start":1130.532,"end":1158.18,"text":"支持我方向的差不多有將近一半那我要請問這個外交部那這個支持台灣加入CPTPP的會員國數量是不是目前有沒有增加有在增加中那到底剩下還沒有明確表達支持的國家卡關是因為貿易條件還是有其他的因素"},{"start":1160.285,"end":1177.666,"text":"有部分是政治的原因中國有在阻撓但是我想就所謂加入CPTPP的三原則我們是都符合的不管是我們的自由貿易的程度"},{"start":1179.541,"end":1205.949,"text":"最高標準我們的承諾也都有實現沒有不良記錄現在就是說所謂的共識這個共識怎麼解釋也經過加拿大在去年當輪值主席國的時候有提到就是說可以展開這個所謂的pre-consultation先行諮商因為所謂共識應該是最後有沒有符合標準而不是說"},{"start":1207.389,"end":1234.255,"text":"共識我們能不能去符合去成立工作小組所以這個我們希望能夠突破這一關目前過半數的國家都是支持我們應該是可以我是希望外交部這方面要多用一點心 多積極一些市長跟委員報告外交部的工作非常的努力辛苦而且一直有持續的在進展但是就是在這個高標準我們是符合的貿易承諾我們從來也不會去違背就是在這個"},{"start":1235.535,"end":1264.389,"text":"高度共識的這個情況底下難免當有一些政治的因素政治因素但是我們極力去排除但是你也知道主力在哪裡但是在這個情況底下我們還是跟各國保持最好的關係爭取最多的支持這個要謝謝外交部的工作我跟委員補充一點本來有人是在詢問說所謂共識原則等一下那個部長你再等一下本來共識原則是說其實反對我們去成立工作的小準必須說理由"},{"start":1265.305,"end":1294.526,"text":"不能說好像要現在有12個已經加入的會員國跟經濟體要一致決策我們才能夠去成立工作小組我們現在的努力在這一點上有獲得一定的支持所以我們希望朝工作小組的成立來先跨出一步好 謝謝我想因為這個今年全國稅收實增金額大於這個護稅預算數的情形俗稱叫稅收超增 院長"},{"start":1295.543,"end":1322.238,"text":"那據財政部公布的資料2024年稅收超徵金額就有5283億元創下歷史的新高已經連續四年了稅收超徵超過3800億那根據最新的民調有超過六成六的民眾是支持還稅移民普發現金一萬元那當然民眾也希望政府如果不能好好的運用這筆錢來還債"},{"start":1325.821,"end":1336.935,"text":"獲益助眷保、勞保、公務人員退休、撫恤基金、乾脆普發現金、還錢離民以達到全民共享、超收稅收的成果"},{"start":1340.64,"end":1364.627,"text":"那那個院長跟部長因為國民黨即將提出稅收超徵全民共享發放現金特別條例的草案那完備來普發現金一萬元的法源同時將推動預算法修法那本席建議啊院長本席建議如果行政院或財政部有不同的想法"},{"start":1365.487,"end":1382.473,"text":"你們應該要盡快提出對岸送來立法院來審查那我請問卓院長與財政部莊部長何時會送相對的法案來立法院來審查好 謝謝我非常我首先必須肯定委員剛剛講到一句話如果這個錢"},{"start":1383.905,"end":1407.263,"text":"能夠還債或是健保或做其他的使用那這個是前提還債健保保保甚至於公務人員退休補蓄基金我瞭解委員的意思是說我那個有提法案對時增數超過預算數這個金額屬於中央的扣掉地方的屬於中央的應該是3550"},{"start":1409.224,"end":1436.929,"text":"三千七百五十七億那這個部分要怎麼來使用當然他如果全部發給國人大家一定百分之百贊成但是政府大概不應該只能這麼做我們要考慮到國家長遠的一個發展的構想跟計畫如果我們把這個計畫拿出來跟國人討論跟大院來討論得到大家的支持那這個才是一個國家財政長遠應該做的方法所以說那個卓院長"},{"start":1437.529,"end":1458.545,"text":"我剛剛特別叮嚀提起說如果你們有其他的想法應該要提出一些對案甚至你們認為要怎麼做只要合情合理合法大家有共識我認為這是一個好的開始非常謝謝委員很肯定委員這樣的想法因為你沒有提出對案來講實在話"},{"start":1461.26,"end":1479.233,"text":"立法院站在我們針對超生這麼多年我們一定會提法你們要是說有一個想法你們要提出來對岸大家來探討來討論針對問題看怎麼做對人民最有利對國家最有利你認不認同"},{"start":1480.234,"end":1504.084,"text":"財政部已經算出來這個時增數超過預算數的3757億那怎麼來使用各部位我們現在在想他應該用有一部分幫助社會最需要幫助的人有一部分來壯大台灣的國家的力量那另外一部分來考慮到目前實際上這個整個社會需要用到哪個方向去我想這個我們都有想法那我也知道這個這個案子"},{"start":1506.405,"end":1522.694,"text":"大院現在有委員在提案我總是有一個拜託就是不要讓它成為一個固定的使用方式這個對國家是不好的你們只要提出法案來我們都可以在委員會裡面來討論最後大家有共識送到院會來我是認為這是針對問題探討問題怎麼來解決問題啊我們了解委員的這個講法也謝謝委員的用心我們朝這個方向來走"},{"start":1529.898,"end":1545.293,"text":"好 謝謝 院長根據2024年美國前六大貨品貿易逆差的夥伴依序排列為中國大陸 墨西哥 越南 愛爾蘭 德國 台灣我們排名第六位"},{"start":1546.354,"end":1566.16,"text":"那美國對台灣的貿易逆差達到739億美元那我請問左院長以財政部外交部經濟部首長美台21世紀的貿易倡議協定後續的談判還能不能夠繼續談下去我們爭取第二階段的談判"},{"start":1566.601,"end":1588.468,"text":"能夠再往前跨一步因為第一階段我們已經達成了我們爭取第二階段那當中有若干單項的問題我們逐項在解決當中因為這個為了避免雙重克罪的協定雖然已在美國眾議院高票通過但是法案後續還要眾參議院剛剛我特別提到還要美國總統簽署才正式生效"},{"start":1589.588,"end":1608.803,"text":"所以說川普總統就任後似乎又要重新再談甚至於何時才能夠生效未來面對美國關稅的壓力如何讓企業耕留台灣避免產業空洞化外交部財政部跟經濟部"},{"start":1609.904,"end":1629.378,"text":"其實你們應該有一些看法才對我們相關的部會包括勞動部包括農業部等等都針對各單項已經做了相當多的準備也進行過那我們現在國家的談判代表也隨時準備再次跟美國來配合時程啟動第二階段的這個談判的過程"},{"start":1631.743,"end":1656.635,"text":"因為美國總統川普成立國家能源主導委員會其任務將是協助滿足美國發展人工智慧的龐大電力需求外界一直認為說有助於美國小型核電廠的發展美國和20多個國家共同發表核能宣言共同努力於2050年全球核能容量"},{"start":1658.236,"end":1682.629,"text":"增加為三倍的目標換言之2050年淨零排碳是不可缺的本席關心潛能減碳的議題多次希望政府儘速提出能源模擬器讓外界清楚知道發電的成本差異各種發電的碳排量的排放"},{"start":1684.45,"end":1698.92,"text":"提供可能面臨的風險以代價讓外界有共同討論的基礎嘗試的去尋找適合的能源發展的一個路徑環境部 彭部長"},{"start":1700.541,"end":1728.092,"text":"本席上次在總質詢的時候其實本席也有要求說大概幾個月時間可以把模擬器做出來讓給大家一個報告結果到今天其實時間已經到了那個彭部長時間到了但是你們到底可不可以提出來"},{"start":1729.342,"end":1751.63,"text":"報告委員我們目前提出台灣的淨零路徑我們是以那個為主那委員提到那個其實現在MIT麻省理工學院我們發現他做的已經非常完整非常完整我們再給委員再講因為你們應該要做完整可以的話你要報告要提出來好不好好 謝謝那2021年12月18日核四這個啟封商轉這個發電"},{"start":1755.846,"end":1765.855,"text":"這個公投結果這個沒有通過所以說依照公投法的規定今戶覺知重大政策行政機關以兩年內不得變更這個"},{"start":1768.82,"end":1790.103,"text":"不得變更該附決內容的施政那核四公投啊如今已經過了三年核四重啟或任業損失卓院長應該要拿定主意啊那請問經濟部部長這個郭部長核四2833億元的封存起經台電公司的才是台電公司的資產嗎"},{"start":1791.665,"end":1815.306,"text":"一旦核四任列損失台電公司整個財務的危機我相信行政院應該很清楚你們要有一些配套的措施那個核四可以公布核四在前政府的時候宣布封鎖一直到現在當然還有一些後續的處置要處理"},{"start":1816.949,"end":1841.266,"text":"再談合適是否啟用 目前來看應該不是很適合不適合喔那不適合你們自己要應該有一個想法對不對因為你是認略損失還是怎麼樣認略損失台電會破產呢這是我們如何讓台電好 謝謝林德福委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢"},{"start":1845.479,"end":1848.691,"text":"現在在我們一場二樓旁聽的來自美國喬治城大學"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":51,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（14時47分）謝謝我們的大會主席韓院長，還有行政院卓院長、與會的各位部會首長，是不是請卓院長？"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員德福：卓院長您好。卓院長，美國總統川普與烏克蘭總統澤倫斯基上個禮拜五在白宮舉行會談，結果雙方在媒體前爆發激烈的爭吵，我要請問院長，你認為這是尋求美國幫助應該有的元首態度嗎？依您來看。"],["卓院長榮泰：事實上，我不便公開去批評兩位總統，他們就各自國家的立場跟彼此合作的關係所做的任何表現……"],["林委員德福：對！所以說……"],["卓院長榮泰：但我總是希望談話能夠增進雙方彼此了解跟未來的合作，這才是一個好的方式。"],["林委員德福：還是要面對美國優先的川普政府。你認為澤倫斯基有這樣的反應並不意外，依您很客觀地來看？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果站在對自己國人的訴求上來看，他展現國家的需求，但是也應該用國家最大的利益尋求國際合作。"],["林委員德福：院長，反觀近年來民進黨宣揚「今日烏克蘭，明日台灣」，以此鼓吹「抗中保台」。對照拜登總統買單，主動宣示防衛臺灣，我請問你，面對凡事必稱美國優先的川普，依您看美國的政策基調會不會調整？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員先澄清，我並沒有鼓吹「今日烏克蘭，明日台灣」，我希望世界是一個和平的世界。"],["林委員德福：對啦！但是前一段時間，我相信大家在媒體、各方面也都有看到，我是要請教這個，因為院長，我們會不會像澤倫斯基一樣也沒有籌碼，只有接受美國指揮一途，會不會變成這個樣子？"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣有臺灣在國際上的重要性，我想我們會一直強調臺灣的重要性，我們在科技產業上的關鍵地位、我們的領先……我們產業鏈的關鍵地位，這個我們一直強調，這個是不容忽略跟不容否認的事實。"],["林委員德福：這樣喔！院長，賴清德總統上個月召開國安高層會議，提出包括提高整個國防預算、國安法制改革和全球民主供應鏈的整個策略。我請問院長，到目前為止，你認為美國總統川普或是美國政府對目前的兩岸問題是不是已經有了正面的回應？依您看。"],["卓院長榮泰：賴總統在國安高層會議上，基於臺灣國家國防之需要，提出我們希望能夠達到GDP 3%的國防預算，這個是未來政府努力的一個政策，我相信美國政府有注意到臺灣這樣一個國家政策上面的宣示，所以未來我們在發展的過程當中，一定是基於國家的需要，能夠採購到我們真正需要的國防武器。同時更重要的是，也要發展對臺灣基礎國防上面的能量，包括人員的培訓，包括我們新進科技的訓練等等。我想這個都是整個一環當中，至少美國政府注意到臺灣的這個方向。如果雙方基於合作的善意跟彼此維護印太地區和平穩定的共同需要，能夠達到這個目的的話，我想我們是歡迎而且會朝這個目標來努力。"],["林委員德福：院長，上個禮拜川普又被問到是否會阻止中國對臺灣動武，他再度拒絕做出承諾。那我請問院長，對照拜登明確地表達防衛臺灣的說法，川普拒絕回應的舉動，到底是為了緩和近期情勢緊張的兩岸關係，還是可能是為了向中國示好，所以說防衛臺灣的態度軟化？就臺灣的立場來看，你認為美國表達協防臺灣的立場到底是明確好還是模糊好？依您很客觀地來看。"],["卓院長榮泰：國際上的局勢，我們當然很重視每一次的談話，但是也不會拘泥於每一次……以哪一次的內容重點就斷定是一個政策的改變，我認為美國對中國的政策以及美國在印太的政策是長期的，而且是穩定的。在維持長期穩定的過程當中，臺灣扮演一個關鍵的角色，我們如何加強自己的國防力量，這個才是我們現在能夠自主全力要做到的事情……"],["林委員德福：那會不會……"],["卓院長榮泰：這部分能不能容許我們部長來說明？"],["林委員德福：好，來，顧部長，依您看呢？"],["顧部長立雄：就我的看法，印太區域是現在美國全球戰略的重心，印太區域不管在經濟成長、地緣政治跟軍事安全層面，都跟美國優先的政策跟美國國家的繁榮、發展是息息相關的，所以美國不可能會放棄在印太的重大利益，而臺灣在第一島鏈這樣子的中心、重要地緣戰略的位置，它不可能容忍印太區域，包括臺海區域和平穩定的現狀被破壞……"],["林委員德福：對，問題是……"],["顧部長立雄：因為一旦被破壞，美國喪失的是美國重大的核心利益。"],["林委員德福：對，問題是以前拜登當總統的時候，他很明確地表達防衛臺灣的說法，但是現在川普一上任，結果很多媒體問他，他都含糊，而且沒有很明確，會不會是因時制宜？"],["顧部長立雄：跟林委員報告，現在一直有在爭辯所謂的戰略清晰或戰略模糊，我們可以從過去以來一直看到美國長期以來的政策都是採取模糊的政策，因為它不想把話說死，即使是拜登，你講了拜登幾次，他們事後也有所調整，他們還是要維持一貫性的戰略模糊策略，他們認為這樣的戰略模糊更具有嚇阻的效果，這樣子的嚇阻效果，他們會讓中國沒有辦法輕易地認定它一旦對臺灣有全面進犯的這些武力或者是有威嚇的行徑的時候，美國不會介入，他們沒有辦法把握美國不會介入，他們在沒有辦法把握美國不會介入的時候，它要進行全面侵臺計畫，它的計算上會變得非常非常地複雜，因為它要考慮到駐日美軍的部分，它要不要防範它在經過宮古海峽的時候，駐日美軍或者是日本會有如何的反應；它在經過巴士海峽或巴林坦海峽的時候，菲律賓會如何的回應。但是你可以看到美國整個布局，在軍事的布局上面，它push日本要提高國防經費以外，它在日本的南西諸島上面不斷地部署相關的反艦飛彈。在跟菲律賓相關的軍事基地上面，它也不斷地在北呂宋島有相關的基地存在，這就是產生一種威嚇、一種嚇阻，一種以展現這樣同盟合作跟實力來維持和平的方式。"],["林委員德福：院長，像川普選前、選後的言行、決策都充斥著美國優先。兩岸問題如此，面對國際政經局勢更是如此，只是在美國優先的立場下，請問院長，依您看，你認為臺灣有什麼籌碼能夠在美臺關係當中達到雙贏的結果？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然談判講求委員所說的籌碼。"],["林委員德福：對啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：但我始終認為臺灣最大的、有利的利基在哪裡，我剛剛說過，我們在半導體產業上、在製造業上，我們關鍵領先的技術跟在產業供應鏈技術的地位，這個是我們最大的利基。但是我認為我們要對自己負責任，就是要向全世界展現我們有防衛自己的決心跟能力，那我如何展現呢？就是我們把國家的國防能力能夠提高，所以總統才會在國安高層會議當中提到，我們會把GDP的3%當作維持我們國防力量的一個重心，這個是向全世界做一個很清楚的宣示。所以我也希望大院能夠支持政府這樣的方向……"],["林委員德福：我相信……"],["卓院長榮泰：未來我們達到這樣的方向，就是向全世界發出一個最強烈的訊息，我們要有捍衛自己的決心跟能力。"],["林委員德福：我認為，相信不管在朝、在野，當然我們一定要自保、自衛……"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，謝謝。"],["林委員德福：我們在買武器方面，其實我認為我們要買就是要買比較先進的武器，不是他們已經不要的，然後我們去買那些，那個老百姓實在是都看不下去。我認為這一點……"],["卓院長榮泰：我相信國防部站在……"],["林委員德福：部長，你真的要好好的思考。"],["卓院長榮泰：國家、國人跟國軍最大的需求，去做這樣的……"],["林委員德福：因為你看上次給我們的一些東西，有的已經發霉了，我相信你自己清楚啦！"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，您講的是所謂的PDA，就是總統的提用權，這個是無償的軍援。"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊！不是……"],["林委員德福：對啦！"],["顧部長立雄：他在第一次的時候，因為他倉儲保管的一些問題，所以產生了一些潮溼的狀況，但後來在進行後續相關……一樣是這些無償軍援的時候，這些狀況全部都改善，而且這樣的檢討報告不是我們提出來的，是美國自己內部提出來說這個要檢討……"],["林委員德福：對啦！我希望未來……"],["顧部長立雄：所以美國在對各國即使是無償的軍援，他們也是會有一定的把關。我相信在軍援上面都這樣子的認真，在軍售相關的議題上面，我們當然會跟美國討論，按照敵情威脅什麼是最符合我們防衛作戰需求所需要的相關武器裝備。"],["林委員德福：對啦！這個是很重要的。","院長，就拿臺美租稅協定的洽簽進度來看，縱使美國眾議院再度通過美臺快速減免雙重課稅的法案，還是要經過美國參議院通過及美國總統川普親簽才可能生效，才會發生效力。請問院長，從拜登時期的談判條件到目前川普政府美國優先的立場，你認為臺灣能夠占到便宜還是好處嗎？你認為會不會占到好處？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們不想占任何國家的便宜，雙方基於平等互惠的立場上……"],["林委員德福：對啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：避免雙重課稅。最近這段期間以來，回到我們臺灣在海外的臺僑很重視的一個問題，也是產業界希望政府能夠努力去達到的問題，我們勢必在雙方21世紀貿易倡議的基礎底下，持續往上精進。"],["林委員德福：對啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：那麼內容到底我們能夠達到什麼樣的階段，我覺得不是占便宜，而是雙方互惠。"],["林委員德福：對，當然我們是希望有對等公平……"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["林委員德福：這樣來洽簽。整個協定的進展，你認為有沒有可能會加快它的速度？"],["卓院長榮泰：在拜登總統任期後期，我們已經有一個十足的進展，但是新總統上來之後，這個進展有一些停下來，而不是改變。"],["林委員德福：對啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：是停下來而已，他可能重點不在這裡，那麼財政部及相關部會，以及對我們的談判都一直持續在進行，是不是容許莊部長來做說明？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，川普政府這屆的國會新上任以後，其實在1月15號眾院已經通過了ADTA，也就是避免雙重課稅的法案已經通過……"],["林委員德福：我知道啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：那現在就是在參議院……"],["林委員德福：參議院啊。"],["莊部長翠雲：內容事實上跟上一次是相同的，完全相同，接下來我們雙方的財政部將持續進行技術面的協商，把相關的定義弄清楚，未來一定也會在平等互惠的原則下簽訂相關協定。"],["林委員德福：我希望當然越快越好啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["林委員德福：院長，日本央行行長警告全球經濟前景存在非常重大的不確定性，制定貨幣政策必須全盤考量，考慮美國政策對全球經濟以及金融市場的影響。上個禮拜台經院舉辦景氣動向調查報告的記者會，張建一院長表示，根據央行預測，今年通膨率低於2%，但實際通膨需考量到天災、氣候等等變化，以及美國總統川普上任後的關稅措施是不是會影響整個物價來推升通膨，這些都要花更多時間來觀察；而上個禮拜主計總處在經濟預測記者會上，上修今年CPI年增率達到1.94%。我請問院長，按照預測整個通膨率的數據結果來看，去年年底行政院物價穩定小組會議延長關鍵原物料稅負減徵措施至今年3月底，你認為這項減徵措施是不是還有繼續延長的必要？"],["卓院長榮泰：把CPI維持在2%以下一直是政府長年持續努力的目標，也符合我們2上1下1平衡的作用，就是把CPI維持在2%以下，而臺灣一直有比較健全的財政體質，包括我們有穩定的金融秩序，這都有助於我們穩定物價的過程。但是總統也一再指示，物價的穩定要列為民生重要指標的首要，所以在前幾天、上禮拜的施政報告當中，我也把穩定物價當作未來五項我們必須即刻去面對的課題，所以政府會持續精準掌握國內外各種局勢，我們當然知道物價的穩定跟國際局勢也有相當大的關係，但我們精準地掌握到它，我們也精準地穩住國內的各項供需秩序，我想這才是現在我們該做的事情。"],["林委員德福：剛剛我請教的，像這些原物料稅負減徵到今年3月底，你認為這些減徵措施是不是還有必要再延長，或者是應該要有機會來退場？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個部分我們在行政院交由鄭麗君副院長所主持的物價穩定小組過程當中，一定是持續針對這樣的方向在做，能夠讓整個物價穩定的措施都在那個小組上面去討論，日前他們已經討論過了，他會持續每個月去做很精準的掌控，如果必須要延長才有助於物價，而且這個延長對國內的產業又是正面的話，那我會尊重物價穩定小組的作業。"],["林委員德福：這樣喔！好。我再請教，因為房屋稅2.0預計今年5月起開徵，自住房屋新增須有本人以及配偶、直系親屬設戶籍為要件，2025年1月媒體報導，原來這些舊制有720萬戶自住的房屋，其中大約有128萬戶沒有設戶籍，如果3月24號以前沒有完成登記，就會喪失自住的資格，自住最低的稅率跟非自住最高的稅率差4.8倍。我想財政部應該很清楚，經過地方政府兩次寄發輔導通知後，目前大約還有多少戶自住的房屋沒有遷入戶籍？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，這個部分還是要靠地方政府持續努力，努力讓民眾知道如果他要適用自用住宅的稅率的話，就要趕快去辦理戶籍登記，這個部分跟地價稅是一致的，也就是說，過往在房屋稅的時候沒有這樣的要求，可是現在我們就一致讓地價稅的課徵方面，自用住宅也是要在這個土地上的房屋設戶籍才能適用，所以這是一致的，這個部分我們會持續督促地方政府能夠趕快來……"],["林委員德福：對啊，最起碼你財政部要掌控啊、要了解啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["林委員德福：院長，我再請教，臺灣在2021年提出加入CPTPP的申請，到現在還沒有獲得全體會員國的共識，擱置討論加入事宜。而CPTPP的成員國目前有12個國家，外交部先前答復本席的時候是：在CPTPP的成員國中，態度上支持我方的差不多有將近一半。那我要請問外交部，支持臺灣加入CPTPP的會員國數量目前有沒有增加？"],["林部長佳龍：有在增加中。"],["林委員德福：關於剩下還沒有明確表達支持的國家，卡關到底是因為貿易條件還是有其他的因素？"],["林部長佳龍：有部分是政治的原因，中國有在阻撓，但是就所謂加入CPTPP的三原則，我們都符合，不管是我們的自由貿易的程度、最高標準、我們的承諾也都有實現，沒有不良紀錄。現在就是所謂的共識怎麼解釋？經過加拿大在去年當輪值主席國的時候有提到，可以展開所謂的pre-consultation先行諮商。因為所謂的共識應該是最後有沒有符合標準，而不是共識我們能不能去成立工作小組，所以我們希望能夠突破這一關。"],["林委員德福：我是希望……"],["林部長佳龍：目前過半數的國家都是支持，我們應該是可以往前走。"],["林委員德福：我希望外交部這方面要多用一點心、多積極一些。"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，外交部的工作非常努力、辛苦，而且一直有持續進展，高標準我們是符合的、貿易承諾我們從來也不會違背，就是在這個高度共識的情況底下，難免有一些政治因素，而我們極力去排除，但是你也知道阻力在哪裡，在這個情況底下，我們還是跟各國保持最好的關係、爭取最多的支持，這要謝謝外交部的工作。"],["林部長佳龍：我跟委員補充一點，本來有人在詢問，所謂共識原則……"],["林委員德福：等一下，部長，你再等一下。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["林部長佳龍：本來共識原則是說反對我們去成立工作小組的必須要說理由，不能說現在有12個已經加入的會員國跟經濟體，要一致決的時候，我們才能夠去成立工作小組，我們現在的努力在這一點上有獲得一定的支持，所以我們希望朝工作小組的成立來先跨出一步。"],["林委員德福：好，謝謝。近年全國稅收實徵淨額大於賦稅預算數的情形，俗稱稅收超徵，據財政部公布的資料，2024年稅收超徵金額有5,283億元，創下歷史新高，已經連續四年稅收超徵超過3,800億。根據最新的民調，超過六成六的民眾支持還稅於民、普發現金1萬元。當然民眾也希望政府如果不能好好的運用這筆錢來還債或挹注健保、勞保、公務人員退休撫卹基金，乾脆普發現金還錢於民，以達到全民共享超收稅收的成果。","院長跟部長，國民黨即將提出稅收超徵全民共享發放現金特別條例的草案，完備普發現金1萬元的法源，同時將推動預算法修法，本席建議，院長，如果行政院或財政部有不同的想法，應該要儘快提出對案，送來立法院審查。請問卓院長與財政部莊部長，何時會送相對的法案來立法院審查？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝，首先我必須非常肯定委員剛剛講到一句話，如果這個錢能夠還債或是健保或做其他的使用，這個的前提……"],["林委員德福：還債、健保、勞保，甚至於公務人員退休撫卹基金……"],["卓院長榮泰：我了解委員的意思，只是說我們今天……"],["林委員德福：我有提法案。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，實徵數超過預算數的這個金額，扣掉地方的，屬於中央的應該是3,757億，這個部分要怎麼使用？當然如果全部發給國人，大家一定百分之百贊成，但是政府大概不應該只能這麼做，我們要考慮到國家長遠發展的構想跟計畫，如果我們把這個計畫拿出來跟國人討論、跟大院來討論，得到大家的支持，這個才是國家財政長遠應該做的工作。"],["林委員德福：所以卓院長，我剛剛特別叮嚀、提到，如果你們有其他的想法，應該要提出一些對案，甚至於你們認為要怎麼做，只要合情、合理、合法、大家有共識，我認為這是一個好的開始……"],["卓院長榮泰：是，非常謝謝委員，很肯定委員這樣的想法。"],["林委員德福：因為你沒有提出對案來……"],["卓院長榮泰：會。"],["林委員德福：講實在話，立法院站在超徵這麼多年，我們一定會提法，你們要是有一個想法，你們要提出對案，大家來探討、來討論，針對問題看要怎麼做對人民才最有利、對國家最有利，你認不認同？"],["卓院長榮泰：財政部已經算出實徵數超過預算數3,757億，那怎麼來使用？各部會現在在想它應該要有一部分來幫助社會最需要幫助的人。"],["林委員德福：對啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：有一部分用來壯大臺灣國家的力量，另外一部分考慮到目前實際上整個社會需要用到哪個方向去，我想這個我們都有想法，我也知道這個案子現在有委員在提案，我總是有一個拜託，就是不要讓它成為一個固定的使用方式，這個對國家是不好的。"],["林委員德福：你們只要提出法案來，我們都可以在委員會裡面來討論，最後大家有共識送到院會來。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["林委員德福：我認為這是針對問題、探討問題、怎麼來解決問題。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝，我很了解委員的講法，也謝謝委員的用心，我們朝這個方向來走。"],["林委員德福：好，謝謝。院長，根據2024年美國前六大貨品貿易逆差的夥伴依序排列為中國大陸、墨西哥、越南、愛爾蘭、德國、臺灣，我們排名第六位，美國對臺灣的貿易逆差達到739億美元。我請問卓院長，依財政部、外交部、經濟部首長的判斷，臺美21世紀貿易倡議協定後續的談判還能不能夠繼續談下去？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們爭取第二階段的談判能夠再往前跨一步，因為第一階段我們已經達成了，要爭取第二階段，當中有若干單項的問題，我們逐項在解決當中。"],["林委員德福：為了避免雙重課稅的協定雖然已在美國眾議院高票通過，但是法案後續還要送參議院，剛剛我特別提到還要美國總統簽署才正式生效。川普總統就任後是否又要重新再談，甚至於何時才能夠生效，未來面對美國關稅的壓力，如何讓企業根留臺灣，避免產業空洞化，外交部、財政部跟經濟部應該有一些看法才對。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們相關的部會包括勞動部、農業部等等，都已經針對各單項做了相當多的準備，也進行過，現在我們國家的談判代表也隨時準備再次跟美國配合時程，啟動第二階段的談判過程。"],["林委員德福：院長，美國總統川普成立國家能源主導委員會，其任務是協助滿足美國發展人工智慧的龐大電力需求，外界一直認為有助於美國小型核電廠的發展，美國和二十多個國家共同發表核能宣言，共同努力於2050年全球核能容量增加為3倍的目標。換言之，2050年淨零排碳核能是不可缺的，本席關心節能減碳的議題，多次希望政府儘速提出能源模擬器，讓外界清楚知道發電的成本差異，各種發電碳排量的排放，提供可能面臨的風險與代價，讓外界有共同討論的基礎，嘗試去尋找適合的能源發展路徑。環境部彭部長，在本席上次總質詢的時候，本席也有要求大概幾個月時間可以把模擬器做出來，給大家一個報告，結果到今天，其實時間已經到了，彭部長，時間到了，你們到底可不可以提出來？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們目前提出臺灣的淨零路徑是以那個為主，委員提到的那個，其實我們發現現在麻省理工學院（MIT）做的已經非常完整。"],["林委員德福：非常完整？"],["彭部長啓明：對，我們再給委員參考。"],["林委員德福：對啦！你們應該要做完整，可以的話，你們報告要提出來，好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["林委員德福：2021年12月18日核四啟封商轉發電公投結果沒有通過，依照公投法的規定，經複決之重大政策，行政機關於兩年內不得變更該複決內容的施政。核四公投如今已經過了三年，對於核四重啟或認列損失，卓院長應該要拿定主意。請問經濟部郭部長，核四封存迄今，2,833億元還是台電公司的資產，一旦核四認列損失，台電公司整個財務的危機，我相信行政院應該很清楚，你們要有一些配套的措施，何時可以公布？"],["卓院長榮泰：核四在前前前前政府的時候宣布封存，一直到現在，當然還有一些後續的處置要處理，我覺得在談核四是否啟用，以目前來看，應該不是很適合的問題。"],["林委員德福：不適合？若不適合，你們自己應該要有一個想法，對不對？你是要認列損失還是怎麼樣？若認列損失，台電會破產耶，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：如何讓台電財務能夠健全是現在郭部長跟台電在努力的。"],["林委員德福：對啦！我認為郭部長應該要有一個想法，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林德福委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，現在在我們議場二樓旁聽的是來自美國喬治城大學（Georgetown）外交學院的老師跟學生，歡迎、Welcome，我們掌聲歡迎。","接下來請林憶君委員質詢，請莊瑞雄委員準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","黃捷","柯志恩","張啓楷","賴惠員","林德福","林憶君","莊瑞雄","黃仁","何欣純","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":31,"meetingDate":["2025-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1142402","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142402_00002","1142402_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1142402_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}