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也沒有錯啊全世界電子產品幾乎都是零啊你總裁你查一下 查一下今天看到美國對於高磊對於加拿大 歐盟"},{"start":212.677,"end":234.655,"text":"要課25%的關稅 生效樓 生效樓然後呢 加拿大歐盟也要對等課他280億美元的繁殖所以全球的關稅大戰已經開打了 對吧對吧 開打啦 歐盟已經開拋啦 一樣啊你25 我也25啊 老公也開拋啊那咱們大陸沒有啦"},{"start":238.752,"end":253.286,"text":"那是台灣的 我們台灣的因為他沒有對我們害怕所以呢 報告委員我們第十三頁這邊也有談到啦也有談到就是說美國額外針對四項商品的加徵關稅"},{"start":254.887,"end":263.532,"text":"那它對醫藥 醫藥品 半導體 特別是我們就是半導體嘛那還有鋼鐵 鋁銅 汽車零組件我們的十三頁這邊有談到就是說我們對它的曝險相較其他的國家來講 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他們要匯錢匯這麼多出去要經過跟你們"},{"start":418.676,"end":437.398,"text":"講一下啊包委員我們跟美方之間都有密切的在溝通啦不是啊你跟我們台方啦不是美方啦他這個錢總之你是出去的啊那台積電部分因為我們他們在大兒結會的部分金額比較大的部分好了你跟誰談啦台積電的誰談啦"},{"start":438.86,"end":444.784,"text":"台積電的財務部門 財務部門 財務部門你不要鬧開 他財務長你不可以跟他談啦局長對財務長一三天啦對啊 那跟你談就衛生假啦衛生假你要對口啊 你要對總裁的表啊"},{"start":458.093,"end":478.014,"text":"因為魏哲嘉他不會去了解這些資金的狀況還是他的財務長比較了解所以也就是說他去那邊投資那會影響到我請問你啊川普是不是希望美元弱勢是不是"},{"start":480.701,"end":498.998,"text":"他希望能夠賣東西賣得好事實上他好像有這樣的一個傾向不過我跟委員報告就是說匯率也不是說有一個人他講的就算數匯率是由市場決定的"},{"start":506.277,"end":507.539,"text":"你去年進場164億美元 台幣還是騙因為你就怕被列為匯率超重"},{"start":522.401,"end":527.444,"text":"我們不會怕 我跟委員報告我們跟美國財政部的溝通良好我們隨時都在溝通所以這一點請委員放心"},{"start":539.952,"end":556.005,"text":"可是現在是不是還是被列為觀察名單這個他最近據我了解他都四月中四月到四月中他會發布匯率報告所以四月台灣就被拿掉了是這樣子嗎"},{"start":558.126,"end":569.656,"text":"因為我跟委員報告我們最起碼都會有兩項所以兩項就是觀察就是觀察了嘛所以你要拿掉很困難了啦因為如果說是兩項特別是兩項就沒辦法了啦三項就差這麼多 兩項就觀察格一項就觀察名單所以這樣4月還是觀察啊"},{"start":584.307,"end":604.496,"text":"因為你還是要再操縱啊還是兩項啦你還是兩項嘛所以還是操縱啊沒有操縱啊沒有操縱啊那說一半還是被觀察的不是嗎觀察啦觀察啦來我們再看啦這個你剛才講CPI我現在關心的GDP今年台灣的GDP怎麼樣"},{"start":607.595,"end":621.9,"text":"我跟委員報告基本上我們報告這邊也有談到我們第一個我們的組織總署現在是他把他revised down但是他現在還是3.14這個是3.14那第二個國際的機構國內國外的機構平均現在以平均來講的話是3.04"},{"start":632.992,"end":649.401,"text":"不會再往下調不會再往下調這個就是說這個是目前的一個預測但是他會隨著新的一個制裁然後他才會川普的關稅政策是不是大犀牛是不是"},{"start":651.745,"end":674.669,"text":"他是不是灰犀牛這個我目前我是不曉得不過我也可以跟委員報告他對市場的不確定性是提高了還沒有到灰犀牛程度應該是還沒有吧最後一個小問題也是很重的問題我問一個很笨的問題美國的國債這麼高佔GDP超過150%為什麼他不會倒"},{"start":680.031,"end":685.393,"text":"你說他的那個債務戰GDP150%為什麼不會倒因為美國你想想看日本本身就是250%250%日本都沒有倒啦何況是美國美國的經濟體那麼大美元又是國際的主要的貨幣"},{"start":704.898,"end":710.502,"text":"所以你就這樣回答所以你就說150%佔事實上先進國家債務佔GD的比重都很高這樣子台灣的20幾%你緊張什麼我們差不多30%左右而已會不會到時候如果他"},{"start":730.378,"end":740.109,"text":"請問你這個我所查到資料對不對我們的外匯存底一半差不多一半是我有沒債應該是有啦會不會他現在這個舉債太多了臨時說這段時間我的利率"},{"start":753.203,"end":776.822,"text":"我覺得這個機率不高啦因為這樣的話就相當於除非就是說他把他的利率是從現在的4點幾把它降到0除非這個機率啦不然的話他不能就是說美國財政不能說我現在只能給你0那這樣的話就是等於他保障"},{"start":777.663,"end":784.376,"text":"如果說美國做這種動作的話我相信美元危機會美元危機謝謝我們賴昭偉"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":214,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（9時48分）謝謝主席及各位先進，有請楊總裁。"],["主席：請楊總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：賴委員早。"],["賴委員士葆：早，辛苦了，楊總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：謝謝。"],["賴委員士葆：川普總統宣布4月2號要實施對等關稅，對等關稅的意思就是你課我多少關稅我就課你多少關稅，我查了一下，美國的產品到臺灣的關稅是6.5%，臺灣的產品到美國的關稅是3.3%，差不多一半，剛剛好一半而已啦！4月2號就要開始實施了，這樣一來，對我們這麼巨大的、七百多億的對美順差有沒有影響？"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，我們的資料顯示，就是對等關稅的部分，以全部的產品來說，我們臺灣對美國的稅率，全部平均、加權平均，我們是比它的關稅還低。"],["賴委員士葆：多少？我們多少？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們負的0.5%。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼？我這裡查到的數字也是你們的資料啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：這個是WTO的資料，我們這個是WTO的資料。"],["賴委員士葆：所以等於美國到臺灣的產品關稅是更低？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，全部，我們用全部來算，但是農產品……"],["賴委員士葆：好，那就以你的為主，好不好？因為我查的是另外的資料，就以你的資料來說。請問我們去美國的是多少？幾%？我們去美國的是幾%？"],["楊總裁金龍：什麼？"],["賴委員士葆：我們的產品去美國的關稅是幾%？美國課徵我們幾%？平均。"],["楊總裁金龍：我這邊的資料是說，我這邊沒有明確的數字，我的資料只是差距，我們用差距啦。"],["賴委員士葆：差距喔？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，差距，就是美國跟我們的稅率差距……"],["賴委員士葆：你還不如我的精準咧！你查一下，你去查一下……"],["楊總裁金龍：好。"],["賴委員士葆：就我所知道的，你的可能有問題，我的比較對喔！"],["楊總裁金龍：不會，那另外的……"],["賴委員士葆：要不然我們的順差怎麼這麼大？我們的對美順差怎麼這麼大？"],["楊總裁金龍：另外我要跟委員報告的就是說，我們的農產品……"],["賴委員士葆：如果我們是minus……"],["楊總裁金龍：我們農產品的關稅差距，就是我們出口出去的跟我們進口的相比，我們是比它高了5.3%。"],["賴委員士葆：是嘛，高嘛，怎麼會低呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，報告委員，那個是農產品啦。"],["賴委員士葆：我跟你講，你查一下，我這裡是有查的，平均是我們占它便宜，否則我們的順差不會那麼大，你想也知道啊！如果我們是minus 0.5%，怎麼可能有這麼大啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦，委員的也沒有錯啦，但是那個……"],["賴委員士葆：是啊，我的沒錯，你的才有錯啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：主要是農產品啦，但是非農產品的部分，我們是比它低啦！"],["賴委員士葆：你講的是電子產品啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：對、對、對，電子產品，因為我們電子產品幾乎是零嘛，我們的電子產品幾乎是零啦。"],["賴委員士葆：我們……"],["楊總裁金龍：我們對農產品的稅率是比它高。"],["賴委員士葆：我們去它那裡是零，它來我們這裡也是零啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦，也沒有錯啦，但是……"],["賴委員士葆：全世界的電子產品幾乎都是零喔，所以你這是多講的！"],["楊總裁金龍：是，但是平均起來……"],["賴委員士葆：總裁，你查一下，你查一下！"],["楊總裁金龍：好。"],["賴委員士葆：來，今天看到美國對鋼鋁的部分，對加拿大、歐盟要課25%的關稅，生效囉，生效囉！然後加拿大、歐盟也提出要對等課他280億美元的反制措施，所以全球的關稅大戰已經開打了，對吧？開打了啊，歐盟已經開炮了，一樣啊，你25%我也25%啊。"],["楊總裁金龍：是啦。"],["賴委員士葆：老共也開炮啊！那我們臺灣要怎麼辦？"],["楊總裁金龍：現在對臺灣……"],["賴委員士葆：因為他沒有對我們開炮。"],["楊總裁金龍：對，所以呢，報告委員，我們第13頁這邊也有談到美國額外針對4項商品加徵關稅，它對醫藥品、半導體，特別我們就是半導體嘛，還有就是鋼、鐵、鋁、銅、汽車及零組件，我們報告的第13頁這邊也有談到，我們對它的曝險相較其他國家來講，我們的曝險比較小，不大，所以……"],["賴委員士葆：所以美國還沒有對我們出手就對了？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，現在都還沒有，特別是半導體，我們對半導體這個部分……"],["賴委員士葆：能不能夠說我台積電投資你1,000億美金，加原來的650億，所以拜託川普，你看我給你這麼多錢了，是不是你就不要給我加關稅了，可以嗎？有沒有在談？"],["楊總裁金龍：所以各個國家……"],["賴委員士葆：有沒有在談？有沒有在談啦？"],["楊總裁金龍：我不曉得有沒有在談，因為這個不是我們中央銀行的職權啦，有沒有在談我不曉得，但是委員講的也沒有錯啦，就是很多國家也是都是在講某種產品的關稅是不是可以豁免，要跟他協商，要跟他協商……"],["賴委員士葆：總裁，我們要去投資1,000億，加原來的650億，就有1,650億美金……"],["楊總裁金龍：是，沒有錯。"],["賴委員士葆：請問這1,000億要去投資的部分，事先你知不知道？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個我不知道。"],["賴委員士葆：你都不知道喔？"],["楊總裁金龍：我不知道。"],["賴委員士葆：這個錢從你這裡出去的，也要經過你耶……"],["楊總裁金龍：報告委員……"],["賴委員士葆：也要經過你耶！"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦……"],["賴委員士葆：要經過你，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，會經過外匯市場，在外匯市場我們就會知道，但是它的1,000億也不會是一年之內就1,000億，不會……"],["賴委員士葆：4年啊，他講4年。"],["楊總裁金龍：是嘛，會有一段很長的時間嘛。"],["賴委員士葆：4年啊，他講4年，平均一年要出去400億美金喔！一年要400億美金喔！"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，對於這個問題，我們也有跟他討論過……"],["賴委員士葆：有跟他討論過？結論是？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們有跟他討論過，基本上他認為……"],["賴委員士葆：請問你是跟魏哲家……"],["楊總裁金龍：這個錢不會從這邊，不會……"],["賴委員士葆：你聽我講一下，你是不是跟魏哲家「もしもし」？"],["楊總裁金龍：當然不會，魏哲家那麼忙，我們相對的對口，我們會跟他討論……"],["賴委員士葆：你也那麼忙啊，你這樣講！"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有、沒有……"],["賴委員士葆：魏哲家不跟你談，請問你們派誰跟他談？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們外匯局的相關人員。"],["賴委員士葆：外匯局的局長是不是？請舉手一下。有沒有談？外匯局局長有沒有談？"],["楊總裁金龍：他有在場，那就由他來說明。"],["賴委員士葆：好，外匯局長有沒有跟他們談？"],["楊總裁金龍：我請他稍微跟你報告一下。"],["賴委員士葆：對啊，他們要匯這麼多錢出去，要跟你們講一下啊！"],["蔡局長烱民：報告委員，我們跟美方之間都有密切的在溝通啦。"],["賴委員士葆：不是啦，你跟我們臺方啦，不是美方啦！他這個錢是從你們那裡出去的啊！"],["蔡局長烱民：台積電的部分，因為他們在大額結匯的部分，金額比較大的部分……"],["賴委員士葆：好了，你跟誰談啦？跟台積電的誰談？"],["蔡局長烱民：台積電的財務部門。"],["賴委員士葆：財務長，是不是？"],["楊總裁金龍：財務部門啦。"],["賴委員士葆：總裁，你不能漏氣啦，如果是財務長，你不可以跟他談啦，局長對財務長可以啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：是啊，所以也就是說我們的……"],["賴委員士葆：要跟你談的話就要魏哲家啦！魏哲家你要對口……"],["楊總裁金龍：因為魏哲家不會去了解這些資金的狀況，還是他的財務長比較了解嘛，也就是說，他去那邊投資，會影響到我們的外匯，我們會跟他討論……"],["賴委員士葆：我請問你，川普是不是希望美元弱勢，是不是？他希望東西能夠賣得好啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：事實上，他好像有這樣的一個傾向。"],["賴委員士葆：有這樣的傾向啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：不過我跟委員報告，匯率也不是某一個人講的就算數。"],["賴委員士葆：但是他希望美元弱勢啦，所以希望臺幣升值啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：匯率是由市場決定的，這個是大家……"],["賴委員士葆：你是這樣講啦，但是去年我給你統計了喔，你去年進場164億美元，臺幣還是貶！"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["賴委員士葆：還是貶！因為你怕被列為匯率操縱國。"],["楊總裁金龍：不會、不會、不會，我們不會怕。我跟委員報告……"],["賴委員士葆：不會怕？"],["楊總裁金龍：是啊，不會，我們……"],["賴委員士葆：可是你還是被列為觀察國啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：我們跟美國財政部的溝通良好，我們隨時都在溝通，所以這一點請委員放心，我們都……"],["賴委員士葆：可是現在是不是還是被列為觀察名單？是不是？"],["楊總裁金龍：據我了解，他在4月到4月中會發布匯率報告。"],["賴委員士葆：所以4月臺灣就會被拿掉了，是這樣子嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：我不曉得，我跟委員報告，我們最起碼都會有兩項……"],["賴委員士葆：我知道啦，所以兩項就是觀察國嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：對，兩項就是觀察名單。"],["賴委員士葆：就是觀察了嘛？"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦、對啦。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你要拿掉很困難啦。"],["楊總裁金龍：是啦，因為如果說是兩項，特別是……"],["賴委員士葆：兩項就沒辦法了啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：對，兩項就沒辦法。"],["賴委員士葆：三項就操縱國，兩項就觀察國，就是這樣啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：對，兩項就觀察名單。"],["賴委員士葆：對啦，觀察名單嘛。"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有錯。"],["賴委員士葆：所以到4月還是觀察啊，因為你還是有在操縱啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：還是兩項啦，我想我們……"],["賴委員士葆：你還是兩項嘛，所以你還是操縱啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有操縱啊！沒有操縱。"],["賴委員士葆：講了半天還是被觀察，怎麼不是呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：觀察啦，觀察啦！"],["賴委員士葆：來，我們再看，你剛才講CPI，我現在關心的是GDP，今年臺灣的GDP怎麼樣？美國跌喔！"],["楊總裁金龍：跟委員報告，基本上我們的報告也有談到，第一個，我們的主計總處把它revised down，但是現在還是3.14%啦。第二個，國際的機構，國內、國外的機構，現在以平均來講的話是3.04%。"],["賴委員士葆：不會再往下掉？"],["楊總裁金龍：蛤？"],["賴委員士葆：不會再往下調？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個是目前的預測，但是它會隨著新的資料，然後才會……"],["賴委員士葆：請問川普的關稅政策是不是大犀牛？是不是灰犀牛、大犀牛？"],["楊總裁金龍：是不是灰犀牛？這個目前我是不曉得啦，不過我可以跟委員報告，這對市場的不確定性是提高了。"],["賴委員士葆：還沒有到灰犀牛程度？"],["楊總裁金龍：應該是還沒有吧。"],["賴委員士葆：好，最後一個小問題，也是很重要的問題，我問一個很笨的問題，美國的國債這麼高，占GDP超過150%，為什麼它不會倒？你來回答一下。"],["楊總裁金龍：委員說它的債務占……"],["賴委員士葆：債務占GDP 150%，為什麼不會倒？"],["楊總裁金龍：你想想看，日本是250%，日本250%都沒有倒了，何況是美國，美國的經濟體那麼大，美元又是國際的主要貨幣，那當然……"],["賴委員士葆：所以你就這樣回答啊？"],["楊總裁金龍：所以也就是說，事實上先進國家的債務占GDP的比重都很高，目前都很高。"],["賴委員士葆：既然這樣，臺灣只有二十幾%而已，你在緊張什麼？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們差不多30%左右。"],["賴委員士葆：我們30%不到啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：我們差不多30%左右而已，我們……"],["賴委員士葆：會不會到時候如果他……我先請問你我所查到的資料對不對，我們的外匯存底差不多一半是握有美債……"],["楊總裁金龍：應該是有啦。"],["賴委員士葆：會不會現在它舉債太多了，臨時說這段時間的利率為零，有可能嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：我覺得這個機率不高啦。"],["賴委員士葆：有做過這種事啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：因為這樣的話就相當於，除非Fed把它的利率從現在的四點幾降到零啊，除非這個機率啦，不然的話美國財政部不能說現在只能給你零，這樣的話就等於它倒帳，如果說美國做這種動作的話，我相信會有美元危機。"],["賴委員士葆：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝賴召委。","它要是利率降到零的話，不給利息的話，就要送到緬甸去，因為這真正的詐騙犯啦！"],["主席（賴委員士葆）：下一位請郭國文委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-2","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","顏寬恒","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","羅明才","黃珊珊","林思銘","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","王鴻薇","邱志偉","陳冠廷","李柏毅"],"page_start":169,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍率所屬單位主管暨財金資訊股份有限公司董事長列席業務報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}