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如果廣委會都同意你設置你就可以去進行後面的程序了吧 是不是所以問題的癥結 我們先把技術的排除問題的癥結 其實就是廣委會能不能同意你設置嘛 對不對 是不是這樣"},{"start":297.572,"end":319.282,"text":"邏輯上是這樣邏輯上是這樣沒有錯啦好那再來內政部你能做的也是一個全國的法令的一個統一的規範對不對那你其他各縣市有沒有他們各縣市的公立大校管理條例的自治條例"},{"start":320.379,"end":344.531,"text":"有沒有沒有目前沒有目前都是依據我們的規範去進行那未來會不會有你也不能說啊你也不知道有沒有啊現在就是就有關充電樁的設置現在有些縣市是用指引的方式啦它不是用這個法律條文去強制規範它是用指引對嘛我現在就是說其實各縣市"},{"start":346.601,"end":374.892,"text":"也都有的人積極在推了是不是對不對那你在積極在推的時候很難講啊你未來他會不會有他自治條例這個很難講啊對不對所以我在這邊要說的就是一個我們知道問題在哪裡就是管委會嘛當管委會有很多問題啊我們有電動車的你叫我去負擔這也是我們最常聽到的吧"},{"start":375.68,"end":397.754,"text":"對不對所以如何去處理到這個完善我覺得啦可能要及時廣益啦那也不可能說在兩三天之內就把它解決啦但是呢要及時廣益去處理這些問題啦包括所有的安全然後我住戶的權利或什麼的但你要知道"},{"start":399.397,"end":416.544,"text":"工委會也是投票制啊對不對我相信你也不能說你們怎麼樣就怎麼樣啊我覺得這個是要互相尊重去處理的問題但就法律層面來講現在問題就是只有在這裡其他沒有問題吧"},{"start":418.364,"end":438.38,"text":"現在就是管委會我們就是依據相關的條例去修正討論我們有廣深民意所以現階段為什麼我們講說三到六個月內我們會先將法令先做一些調整依據安全規範先做調整之後當然我們就要那個徵求公開相關的意見然後聽取地方各界的意見我們再來進行完整的修正這樣"},{"start":439.281,"end":468.244,"text":"我覺得目前我個人認為就是說現在各縣市它有公布的公寓大廈增設電動汽車充電設施指引這個各縣市我們應該要先去看一下各縣市到底是不是都一樣各縣市是這樣 我認為啦你在都會區的跟你在比較不是都會區的各縣市我認為會不一樣"},{"start":470.105,"end":487.055,"text":"對但是現在的相關的指引基本上我們剛剛有報告大概都是還是以六都為主啦或是主要的都會區對你其他的也不一定都是六都裡面都有一樣嗎基本上六都是不是都一樣"},{"start":487.919,"end":503.912,"text":"現在目前來講像六都裡面就是台南跟台北那已經有先指引那台北當然會傾向慢慢把它法治化但是在這之前我們還是跟他開會的時候都有提醒到說其實安全的流程才是最重要的是啦"},{"start":505.02,"end":524.08,"text":"署長你講這句話 不管管委會同不同意其實經費那些問題都可以解決啦你台電也可以拉特別的一條線什麼這些都可以解決啦大家最注意的就是安全啦因為電動車的如果起火什麼的這個不大一樣就是安全所以如何去解決這個"},{"start":525.701,"end":543.858,"text":"廣委會就會比較容易同意了啦我覺得問題的癥結雖然是在廣委會但是安全這個只要你百分之百安全廣委會就會比較同意了對不對好啦 那你們再去研究看看啦好 謝謝我們一定會確保所有相關的安全的措施前提謝謝委員指教好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":345,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（9時37分）請次長。"],["主席：次長有請。"],["張委員宏陸：次長，我們今天這個主題──社區大樓設置充電設備，先請問一下，108年之後，新的大樓其實都有預留充電樁了吧？"],["董次長建宏：是充電樁的空間。"],["張委員宏陸：都有了吧？"],["董次長建宏：對。"],["張委員宏陸：108年以前沒有，對不對？所以其實這個的複雜度應該是舊大樓比較高吧？對不對？是不是？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["張委員宏陸：所以是不是要來處理這個事情，我們應該要先把它分成兩個區塊：一個是舊大樓，一個是新大樓。那新大樓都有預留了，其實它所有包括消防、包括什麼的都符合現行的法律規定了吧？"],["董次長建宏：有一些規範我們是陸續公布。所以我們會邀請新的大樓還是要加設一些相關設施，包括我們剛才在談的，我們要去研擬相關的排煙設備裝置，這個也是在實驗當中，因為這個涉及到整體科學的實驗數據，我們必須透過科學實驗數據結果來要求增設。"],["張委員宏陸：不是，我的意思不是這樣。現在已經好了的都符合現行的法規，未來要再加強的是未來再蓋的新大樓，對不對？"],["董次長建宏：對。"],["張委員宏陸：應該是這樣講才清楚，是不是？"],["董次長建宏：基本上未來的大樓一定會有新的標準要求，但是在舊大樓的部分，我們就儘量依據它相關的狀態，我們來去……"],["張委員宏陸：不是、不是，我們先說新大樓。現在新的大樓都應該符合現行法規了，對不對？"],["董次長建宏：對。"],["張委員宏陸：你剛剛說的什麼消防等設備，那是未來我們要再要求它新增的，對不對？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["張委員宏陸：所以其實新的大樓就只要回歸管委會同不同意設置而已，其實連台電、連什麼也都不需要去了吧？"],["董次長建宏：台電是表後要處理。"],["張委員宏陸：那是表後處理了，它不用再去裝新的、增設一些新的電纜……不是電纜，就是它已經預留線在那邊了，都好了，對不對？"],["董次長建宏：對。"],["張委員宏陸：它只是申請啟用，台電去用一下而已啊！"],["董次長建宏：但是只有預留管道，相關的配線等等到最後還是必須要由台電這邊來協助。"],["張委員宏陸：預留管道分兩種，有的大樓已經全部都做好了，他們那個做得比較好的也都送給你了，這分兩種，對不對？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["張委員宏陸：所以問題比較多的是在舊大樓，對不對？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["張委員宏陸：所以我們要討論的問題，應該要先把它區分為兩塊吧？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["張委員宏陸：如果混在一起討論的話，我跟你講，今年新交的大樓，他們都緊張得要命，對不對？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，新交的大樓大部分應該是按照新的規定，就是按照108年的規定。"],["張委員宏陸：對，所以我的意思是說我們要討論這個要講清楚啦。"],["吳署長欣修：沒錯。"],["張委員宏陸：不然我們在這邊討論，今年新交的這些大樓的管委會每個人都來找你、都來找我們喔！"],["吳署長欣修：了解。"],["張委員宏陸：這個要說清楚，對不對？次長。"],["董次長建宏：對，我們剛剛已經說明過了，108年之後的都是按照新的規範。"],["張委員宏陸：對，這個要先說清楚我們再來討論，不然會引起全臺灣所有大樓的恐慌。","回到我們要解決問題的舊大樓。依據我們現行的法律規定，其實只要管委會同意，是不是就可以去做了？"],["董次長建宏：舊的大樓要設置，除了管委會同意之外，還是要請電機技師或者是相關的電業者去做電容的評估，就是即使大家同意，也要回歸到本身的電表狀態。"],["張委員宏陸：不、不、不，你說的電表狀態是後續，我們先說，如果管委會都同意設置，你就可以去進行後面的程序了，是不是？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛，所以問題的癥結，我們先把技術的部分排除，問題的癥結其實就是管委會能不能同意你設置，是不是這樣？"],["董次長建宏：對，邏輯上是這樣。"],["張委員宏陸：邏輯上是這樣沒有錯啦。再來，內政部能做的也是全國法令的統一規範，對不對？"],["董次長建宏：嗯。"],["張委員宏陸：那其他各縣市有沒有各縣市本身的公寓大廈管理條例的自治條例？"],["吳署長欣修：目前沒有。"],["董次長建宏：沒有。"],["張委員宏陸：目前沒有嘛！"],["董次長建宏：目前都是依據我們的規範去進行。"],["張委員宏陸：未來會不會有？你也不能說啊，你也不知道有沒有啊。"],["吳署長欣修：有關充電樁的設置，現在有些縣市是用指引的方式，不是用法律條文去強制規範，是用指引的。"],["張委員宏陸：對，我現在就是說其實各縣市也都有人積極在推了，是不是？"],["董次長建宏：對。"],["吳署長欣修：是，沒錯。"],["張委員宏陸：那積極在推的時候，未來它會不會有自治條例？這個很難講，對不對？所以我在這邊要說的是，我們知道問題在哪裡，就是管委會嘛！但管委會有很多問題，沒有電動車的，你叫它去負擔？這也是我們最常聽到的。所以如何去把這部分處理到完善，我覺得可能要集思廣益，也不可能在兩、三天之內就把它解決，但是要集思廣益去處理這些問題，包括所有的安全，以及住戶的權益或是什麼的。你要知道，管委會也是投票制，我相信也不能說你們要怎麼樣就怎麼樣，我覺得這是要互相尊重去處理的問題；但就法律層面來講，現在問題就是只有在這裡，其他沒有問題吧？"],["董次長建宏：現在管委會的部分，我們就是依據相關條例去修正、討論，也會廣徵民意，所以現階段3到6個月內我們會先將法令做一些調整，依據安全規範先做調整，之後當然我們就要公開徵求相關意見，並聽取地方各界意見，我們再來進行完整的修正。"],["張委員宏陸：現在各縣市有公布公寓大廈增設電動汽車充電設施指引，我個人認為我們應該要先去看一下各縣市到底是不是都一樣，各縣市是這樣，我認為在都會區的各縣市跟比較不是都會區的各縣市會不一樣。"],["董次長建宏：對，但是我們剛才有報告，現在的相關指引基本上大概都還是以六都為主，或是主要的都會區。"],["張委員宏陸：對，其他的也不一定都是……六都都一樣嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：目前來講，像六都裡面就是臺南跟臺北已經先有指引。臺北當然會傾向慢慢把它法制化，但是在這之前，我們跟他開會的時候還是都有提醒其實安全的流程才是最重要的。"],["張委員宏陸：是啦，署長，其實不管管委會同不同意，經費那些問題都可以解決，台電也可以拉特別的一條線等等，這些都可以解決，畢竟大家最重視的就是安全。因為電動車如果起火什麼的這個會不大一樣，就是安全問題。所以如果解決這部分問題，管委會就會比較容易同意了。我覺得問題的癥結雖然是在管委會，但只要百分之百安全，管委會就會比較同意，對不對？好啦，那你們再去研究看看。謝謝。"],["董次長建宏：好，謝謝，我們一定會確保所有相關安全措施為前提，謝謝委員指教。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","下一位我們請王美惠委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":82,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-2","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","麥玉珍","許宇甄","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","郭昱晴","吳琪銘","洪孟楷","林楚茵","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","黃健豪","李坤城","王鴻薇","邱志偉","張啓楷","蔡易餘","葉元之","高金素梅","丁學忠","翁曉玲","王義川"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部部長劉世芳、經濟部、交通部、金融監督管理委員會、台灣電力股份有限公司就「公\n寓大廈裝設電動車輛充電裝置之相關法令、國家標準、建築設計、管理維護、火災預防措施及相\n關保險類別與要保人之認定」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}