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本席想請教一下不時的廣告的查處算不算公平會的業務是一個重要的業務是一個重要的業務 那在近年來的話這不時廣告增加的趨勢是越來越多那我們看到這歷年來從2019年到2024年增加次數越來越多那我們公平會有什麼查處的工具跟方法你們做了哪些"},{"start":51.498,"end":66.285,"text":"工具很多特別是針對不動產案件的案子我們有網路上的查查實地的宣導跟業者公會座談那當然在其他的一些不實廣告的案件裡面我們也會主動的去了解特別是當假設媒體有披露都主動去了解"},{"start":68.295,"end":83.151,"text":"戴主委因為最近這個案件累計下來這294件裡面就有不動產部分你也提了不動產部分就有58件那你說你主動去查但是你有去開罰去處理的案件幾乎都是檢舉的"},{"start":84.392,"end":101.402,"text":"都是檢舉的那像不實的廣告他已經刊登在不管是大看板啊或者是在網路上宣傳啊你們只要有去查處都看得到但是沒有主動性都是受害者跟你們檢舉你們才去查處"},{"start":102.677,"end":131.957,"text":"就像有些的建商他說他這個房子是有可以挑高的有夾層的但是結果消費者進去之後的話才發現他這個夾層會被處罰會判為違建 違建人就要拆除掉甚至有些的公寓區的房子他也當作一般住宅在賣也會被拆掉這種情形買房子是如何的大事這他的所有的財產他的房子"},{"start":133.077,"end":158.162,"text":"結果呢 結果他房子被拆了 結果他沒地方給住了這個傷害是非常非常的大所以 代理主委 你們的查處就是這樣子而已嗎其實我們都很積極啦 因為像積極沒有主動啊 你有沒有一件主動的地方在哪裡你舉例說都是你要檢舉的嘛 受害者喔事實上就針對不動產部分 我們有專門的一個team在做網路上的監控啦"},{"start":158.602,"end":184.097,"text":"就是會在網路上看各個建商推出的不實廣告如果有競爭不實廣告疑慮的所以你們看了都沒有覺得不實廣告所以你們沒有自動出擊的都是被動就像高雄的男子這個捷運的這個站點這現在政府才做可行性評估結果他也不實廣告啊8分鐘就可以到這個捷運站結果現在你們對查處這個案子你查處了多久你查處多久"},{"start":189.164,"end":204.313,"text":"人家檢舉去了你還要查處查處多久不用你們主動去看你不知道你查處多久這個我們再確認一下我再確認一下那個時間點是現在已經完售了銷售7億你們罰多少60萬對那我們公平交易法的21條他是罰多少"},{"start":213.683,"end":242.168,"text":"最高從五萬到多少五萬到兩千五百萬兩千五百萬你的罰款的基準點在哪裡我們有一個判斷的標準判斷所以你認為他是實在的嗎輕微的廣告不死而已嗎你只罰他六十萬因為那個處罰還要看就是銷售額那我告訴你七億嘛完售是那你有沒有比例原則有沒有拿出來因為有時候涉及到就是廣告期間他其實沒有賣出去啦我告訴你這一件完售了"},{"start":243.328,"end":261.177,"text":"我問你的是這一件高雄男子的沒錯啊我針對這一題他在廣告期間這個案子在廣告期間沒有銷售出去所以我問你嘛現在已經完售了而且你調查多久時間你調查都已經結束銷售了你還要掰 還要凹"},{"start":263.359,"end":273.803,"text":"所以公平委面對事實去做務實的查實尤其是陳主委 林美主委的時候她就說她會重罰來遏止這個歪風"},{"start":277.284,"end":292.459,"text":"你們沒有重罰7億的這個銷售額你們罰了60萬這是廣告商跟件商一起罰的60萬喔沒有分開來的喔結果你看不只這一件很多啊我們這幾年來的60件"},{"start":294.761,"end":310.747,"text":"所以工具給你們了規範給你們了法也給你們了如果說這法不夠讓你們修從2023年修到2025年兩年了還躺在行政院修不出來不夠積極就是你們公平和現代的態度"},{"start":312.316,"end":336.988,"text":"我想對於不用產這一塊我們會持續的積極的查出來持續積極 拿出成效出來你不要有人受害者來跟你檢舉的時候他逃不回來啊房子欸 有人一輩子才買一次房子欸就沒了 就被拆掉了所以公平交易法是保護民眾這保護你都做不到 那你就公平會員沒有用處啦"},{"start":338.683,"end":359.717,"text":"所以請你們再積極一下法也給你們了 工具也給你們了你們的主動不要再等受害者來檢舉了 好不好好 接下來我想請問一下還是不死廣告因為廣大的民眾還是被等於是 算是詐騙嗎因為不死廣告也算是被詐騙就是最近這個有一番賞"},{"start":361.992,"end":388.022,"text":"這個一番賞這個隨機的這個扭蛋來摸彩那但是他有說多大的獎品結果他沒有把大獎放進去那譬如說這個唐吉克的這個部分的話大概在5月8號到這個去年的5月8號到11號發扭蛋的這個活動唐吉克的也承讓缺失所以他也補償也退費了"},{"start":390.023,"end":413.765,"text":"但是公平會就沒有開罰為什麼不只是唐靖克的現在很多這樣子的糾紛很多我想這個主要是因為這個案子因為我想我記得是當事人跟已經達成的那個和解就是他們可是他有沒有事實的不死廣告他有沒有事實他有做廣告這個廣告本身是他有事實嘛所以他在補償跟退費嘛你們為什麼沒有開罰"},{"start":415.543,"end":417.805,"text":"因為他這個活動的期間不長很短活動時間不長你就不能計算他金額了"},{"start":422.879,"end":428.861,"text":"怎麼可以說因為活動時間不長金額小因為這扭蛋的話丟進去硬幣就可以扭蛋啊因為金額小 因為不長因為是隨機就不用開罰所以代理主委就是誤導的效果就比較短所以這個要計算罰款的時候這個是我們會列入考慮的有這個行為就要處罰了你要去遏止他不然大家都投機啦"},{"start":450.695,"end":476.278,"text":"對沒錯 剋除是很重要很重要 所以你說時間短剋除罰款必須要跟損害時間短這快閃就不用罰了就不用負責任了要符合比例嘛就是說它的誤導效果因為這個在法律上你還是你的罰款不能夠過高可是我們就給你工具二十一條五萬到兩千五百萬是我知道但是那個級距你要踩緊它級距就叫你比例原則啊剛剛已經叫你比例原則的這個男子的情況這個"},{"start":477.859,"end":480.661,"text":"捷運點的問題啊 是不是那現在這個天數少 金額少就不用罰了那你就是姑息這種活動 盡量辦只要快閃就好了應該是說不是不用罰 而是說因為它影響了你事實就沒有罰啊對"},{"start":494.049,"end":521.713,"text":"所以告訴代理主委這個一番賞的這個扭蛋這種活動非常非常的多受害者非常的多那就像你講的幾天而已金額很小所以大家就彼此一謀算了就是姑息這種歪風不斷的這個來增加民眾的受害所以連主委都在姑息幾天而已過了就算了"},{"start":522.752,"end":542.181,"text":"我不是說過了就算啦你說幾天而已啊公平會的態度是非常重要的所以我們會持續經濟的但是處理法完所以我請公平會一定要介入調查好不好因為我們民眾沒有這調查的權利也只有你們可以調查如果你們的態度還是姑息養奸的話那我們民眾就一直都是損失的"},{"start":543.51,"end":556.26,"text":"我們會積極持續的關注這個跟詐騙有一樣喔你說要有大獎結果沒有大獎在裡面是不是請公平會拿出你的態度跟你的權力來執法好不好"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":385,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（10時24分）謝謝主席，請陳代理主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：委員早。"],["呂委員玉玲：陳代理主委，本席想請教一下主委，不實廣告的查處算不算公平會的業務？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是一個重要的業務。"],["呂委員玉玲：近年來不實廣告增加的趨勢越來越多，我們看到從2019年到2024年增加的件數也越來越多，公平會有什麼查處的工具或方法？你們做了哪些？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：工具很多，特別是針對不動產案件的案子，我們有網路上的查察、實地宣導以及與業者、公會座談，當然在其他的一些不實廣告案件裡面，我們也會主動去瞭解，特別是當有媒體披露。"],["呂委員玉玲：都有主動去瞭解？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：代理主委，這些案件累計下來的294件裡面不動產部分就有58件，你剛剛說有主動去查，但是你們有開罰處理的案件幾乎都是檢舉的，像不實廣告已經刊登在不管是看板或是在網路上宣傳，你們只要有去查處都看得到，但是沒有主動性，都是受害者向你們檢舉，你們才去查處。就像有些建商說這個房子是挑高的可以有夾層，結果消費者住進去之後才發現這個夾層會被處罰，而且會被判定為違建，違建就要拆除掉，甚至有些工業區的房子也當作一般住宅在賣，這也會被拆掉，會有這種情形。買房子是如此大事，他的房子是他所有的財產，結果他的房子被拆了、沒地方可以住，這個傷害是非常大的，代理主委，所以你們的查處就是這樣子而已嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：其實我們都很積極，因為像剛剛跟委員……"],["呂委員玉玲：積極沒有主動啊！你有沒有一件主動的地方，在哪裡，你舉例？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們主動的地方，譬如……"],["呂委員玉玲：都是受害者檢舉的。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：事實上，針對不動產部分，我們有一個專門的TEAM在做網路上的監控，我們會在網路上看各個建商推出的不實廣告，如果有競爭、不實廣告疑慮的地方……"],["呂委員玉玲：你們看了都沒有覺得是不實廣告，所以你們才沒有主動出擊。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：其實都有。"],["呂委員玉玲：都是被動的，就像高雄楠梓的捷運站點，現在政府才在做可行性評估，結果建商的不實廣告說8分鐘就可以到這個捷運站，現在你們對這個案子查處了多久？人家已經去檢舉了，你還要查處多久，不用你們主動去看，你不知道查處了多久？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：這個我們再確認一下，我再確認一下那個時間點。"],["呂委員玉玲：現在已經完售了，銷售額7億，你們罰多少？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：60萬。"],["呂委員玉玲：公平交易法第二十一條規定是罰多少？從5萬到多少？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：從5萬到2,500萬。"],["呂委員玉玲：對，2,500萬，你的罰款的基準點在哪裡？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們有一個判斷的標準。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你認為它是實在的嗎？輕微的廣告不實而已嗎？你只罰它60萬！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：因為那個處罰還要看銷售額，看銷售金額才會……"],["呂委員玉玲：我已經告訴你是7億嘛！完售了！你們的比例原則有沒有拿出來？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：因為有時候涉及到的是廣告期間它其實沒有賣出去。"],["呂委員玉玲：我告訴你這一件完售了，我問你的是高雄楠梓的這一件，你針對這一題。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：沒錯，這個案子在廣告期間沒有銷售出去。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我問你現在已經完售了，而且你調查了多久時間，你的調查都已經結束銷售了，你還要掰、還要拗？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：沒有，因為罰款……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以公平會面對事實要去做務實的查處，尤其是前主委李鎂曾說他會重罰來遏止這個歪風，結果你們沒有重罰，銷售額7億，你們只罰了60萬，而且是對廣告商和建商一起罰60萬，沒有分開來罰，不只這一件，還有很多，這幾年來就有60件。工具給你們了、規範給你們了、法也給你們了，如果是法的規範不夠，那你們修，但是從2023年修到2025年，兩年了還躺在行政院修不出來，不夠積極就是公平會現在的態度。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：對於不動產這一塊，我們會持續積極的查處。"],["呂委員玉玲：持續積極，拿出成效出來！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是、是，那罰鍰的……"],["呂委員玉玲：不要等受害者來跟你檢舉的時候，他討不回來啊！房子欸！有人一輩子才買一次房子，就沒了、就被拆掉了。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是，我們會繼續精進。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以公平交易法是保護民眾，這保護你都做不到，那公平會就沒有用處了，所以請你們再積極一下，法也給你們了，工具也給你們了，你們要主動，不要再等受害者來檢舉，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：接下來，我想請問一下的還是不實廣告，因為廣大民眾還是被……算是詐騙嗎？因為不實廣告也算是被詐騙，最近有一番賞隨機的扭蛋來摸彩，它說有多大的獎品，結果它沒有把大獎放進去，比如說唐吉訶德這個部分，在去年5月8號到11號舉辦扭蛋的這個活動，唐吉訶德也承認缺失，所以它也補償、也退費了，但是公平會就沒有開罰，為什麼？不只是唐吉訶德，現在這樣子的糾紛很多欸！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我想主要是因為這個案子，我記得是當事人跟廠商已經達成和解，就是他們有做事後的補償……"],["呂委員玉玲：可是它有沒有不實廣告的事實？它有沒有事實？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：如果它有做廣告，這個廣告本身是……"],["呂委員玉玲：它有事實嘛！所以它才補償跟退費嘛！你們為什麼沒有開罰？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：因為這個活動的期間不長，很短，對。"],["呂委員玉玲：活動時間不長，你就不能計算它金額了？怎麼可以說因為活動時間不長、金額小？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：不實廣告時間的長短會影響到……"],["呂委員玉玲：因為扭蛋的話，硬幣丟進去，就可以扭蛋了。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：沒有，因為這個會涉及……"],["呂委員玉玲：因為金額小、因為不長、因為是隨機就不用開罰喔？所以代理主委……"],["陳代理主任委員志民：時間不長，誤導的效果就比較短，所以要計算罰鍰的時候，我們也會列入考慮。"],["呂委員玉玲：有這個行為就要處罰了！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是，我們事實上是認定違法，對。"],["呂委員玉玲：你們要去遏止它，不然大家都投機啦！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：對，沒錯，嚇阻是很重要，只是說……"],["呂委員玉玲：很重要，所以你說時間短……"],["陳代理主任委員志民：科處罰鍰必須要跟損害要有……"],["呂委員玉玲：時間短，像快閃就不用罰了、就不用負責任了？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：要符合比例嘛，就是它的誤導效果，因為這個在法律上罰鍰也不能夠過高。"],["呂委員玉玲：可是我們就給你工具第二十一條五萬到兩千五百萬，所以……"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是！我知道，但是那個級距，你要採取哪一個……"],["呂委員玉玲：級距就叫你比例原則啊！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：對啊！就是要符合比例原則。"],["呂委員玉玲：剛剛已經叫你比例原則，像楠梓房屋建案廣告中的捷運站的問題啊！是不是？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是，所以就是……"],["呂委員玉玲：現在這個天數少、金額少，就不用罰了，你就是姑息這種活動儘量辦，只要快閃就好了。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：應該不是說不用罰，而是因為它影響的層面非常短。"],["呂委員玉玲：事實你就沒有罰啊！事實你就沒有罰……"],["陳代理主任委員志民：跟委員報告，因為它時間比較短。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以告訴代理主委，一番賞扭蛋的這種活動非常非常的多，受害者非常的多，就像你講的幾天而已，金額很小，所以大家就鼻子一摸，算了。就是姑息這種歪風，不斷地增加民眾的受害，所以連主委都在姑息，幾天而已啊，過了就算了。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我不是說過了就算了，只是在處理、在計算罰鍰的時候……"],["呂委員玉玲：你說幾天而已啊！所以公平會的態度是非常重要的。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是，我們會持續精進，但是在處理罰鍰的時候，時間必需要考慮。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我請公平會一定要介入調查，好不好？因為民眾沒有調查的權力，也只有你們可以調查，如果你們的態度還是姑息養奸，民眾就一直都是損失了。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們會積極、持續地關心這個狀況。"],["呂委員玉玲：這跟詐騙一樣喔！你說有大獎，結果沒有大獎在裡面，是不是？好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：謝謝委員，我們會持續觀察。"],["呂委員玉玲：請公平會拿出你的態度跟你的權力來執法，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是！"],["主席：好，謝謝呂委員。","我們下一位請張嘉郡委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":168,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-2","speakers":["蔡易餘","邱議瑩","林岱樺","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳超明","賴瑞隆","翁曉玲","陳培瑜"],"page_start":121,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}