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在場的委員先進列席的政務機關所長 官員會長 觀眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請楊總裁有請總裁外匯局蔡局長陳局長還有財經資訊公司林董事長林董事長請總委員早總裁好總裁趁你還沒注意到我趕快進入下一頁請問總裁你認為這三個都市哪一個稱得上是亞洲金融中心"},{"start":40.347,"end":61.536,"text":"亞洲金融中心的話我們如果講一般比較會那個的話現在我們應該就是說香港跟新加坡比較但是現在就香港因為香港本身現在所以香港跟新加坡是算啦公金也算吧他算是在亞洲裡面的重要的那這三個地方都有設置資產管理中心嗎"},{"start":65.71,"end":76.945,"text":"因為資產管理中心算是亞洲金融中心的一部份的功能那台灣有可能取代哪一個成為亞洲金融中心嗎?"},{"start":78.938,"end":102.18,"text":"我想就是說我們不要就是說是取代啦我們不要說取代因為你的發展跟他有些時候不太一樣那不必要就是說是要取代那我們請教一下 總裁你念書的時候有寫過做我的志願你的志願有沒有想過你有一天會當總裁沒有想過那你會不會覺得有一天你可能會成為總統"},{"start":104.77,"end":119.961,"text":"不要小看啦現在加拿大的總理是前任的總裁啊所以太謙虛太客氣過去不該想的事情未來不是沒有可能這一點啊我才會就是說非常非常的謝謝莊委員"},{"start":122.043,"end":137.82,"text":"給我非常大的鼓勵那說實在的你在講的時候呢我為什麼我平常不會笑得那麼大聲我不會笑得那麼大聲但是呢我笑得那麼大聲是說我從來沒有想過但是呢委員給我的鼓勵我們人要有志氣啊"},{"start":143.886,"end":163.261,"text":"臺灣就算不能取代人家成為亞洲金融中心也可以成為一個亞洲的資產管理中心有這個條件吧其實呢在COVID-19之後呢我又再度回到越南這次我去啊有個台商接待我他看說他創造一個新的商業模式怎麼樣呢他在一個商業大樓裡面底下的大賣場啊有一個美食廣場"},{"start":164.522,"end":187.092,"text":"這個美食廣場我們要去吃飯不是一個點一個點去付錢沒有他說進去之前你先弄一個儲值卡我除了一百萬月頓你要多少錢嗎一百萬月頓沒多少啦一千五台幣啦然後這個儲值卡呢我每一攤呢就可以去消費消費完之後呢我要離開了他可以把儲值卡再結清那這樣子呢我去每一攤呢我也不用再拿月頓去跟他換"},{"start":188.152,"end":213.205,"text":"那這個美食廣場還有誰的客人還有樓上的這些上班族的客人你覺得這個商業模式有沒有很特別啊其實我覺得沒有很特別我還想想說不對啊這個小時候我們參加原油會也是這樣子啊拿一百塊的換原油券對不對那去每個攤位消費消費完了之後呢店家拿原油券去換錢是不是這樣差別在哪裡還是有一個差別差別是呢"},{"start":214.326,"end":228.728,"text":"顧客不能拿原油先把錢換回來而且呢是一張一張的而這個他說我的新模式是用儲值卡對不對對好那這個很像什麼呢往下看這個就很像我們說的亞資中心啊造源投資國家發展方案"},{"start":229.309,"end":256.274,"text":"央行支不支持兆元投資國家方案當然支持那這個雅資中心是不是其中一個重要部分它是不是創造一個讓金融業者跟台灣的這三大比如公共建設長照產業永續產業把台幣的這些產業的投資變成金融商品放到這個雅資中心也歡迎外來的投資來進行對不對好請問最後他不是原油券喔他投資完了之後他沒有用完的話賺到的他要帶走有沒有匯兌的問題會不會有匯兌的問題"},{"start":259.432,"end":273.706,"text":"這個雅致中心可能是用美元計價嘛 對不對對好 那我們看看央行怎麼說央行說雅致中心不得涉及匯率外匯商品不開放涉新台幣匯率外匯商品這個非資產管理的障礙你們認為這個不會造成資產管理的障礙為什麼為什麼"},{"start":277.729,"end":302.815,"text":"我們在這邊說我如果原油券不能換回我的新台幣我都是去球場演遊會啊我去弄個儲值卡我去那邊銷貨幹嘛我還買了什麼東西我沒有玩的可以帶走啊如果去做生意我還可以帶走啊是不是這樣所以我希望呢央行思考一下你們說未設新台幣匯率的商品呢你們持開放態度什麼叫開放你反過來說嘛沒有涉及的我是開放有涉及的呢不允許好往下看"},{"start":303.837,"end":329.77,"text":"金管會現在在負責亞資中心他錯的這個圖啊多元產業呢有跟無之間新疆模式跟香港模式他們基本上他們有外資跟金流但是他們沒有什麼沒有產業台灣呢有產業有投資像日本模式台灣模式介乎在這兩者之間結果現在日本新加坡香港被列為觀察匯率的操縱名單你認為台灣如果加入了讓這樣的資產管理中心"},{"start":330.963,"end":354.479,"text":"這個有沒有開放外匯跟你們的擔心有沒有關聯應該是沒有關聯那既然沒有擔心被列為匯率操縱觀察名單人家日本、新加坡、香港都可以這樣做了為什麼央行不這樣做事實上剛剛你說原油、原油匯那些那些都是小額的啦那有小額的我跟委員報告就小額的來講我們也是非常自由你看看"},{"start":360.927,"end":384.978,"text":"但是我們要做亞洲資產管理中心是兆元兆元你再不弄開放外匯你說的也沒有錯不過就像那個小額的話你看看我們個人我們本來是因為是巨額才不能比照個人有小額的外匯法規去管理是巨額的時候小額的話我們也不會管"},{"start":385.818,"end":408.774,"text":"所以就問你巨額的人你不開放或部分的鬆綁他沒辦法進行嗎你五百萬一個個人我們就說個人來講五百萬到一千萬我們不要岔題它當然不是研究會也不是一個美食廣場的儲值卡它是一個造源產業的資產管理中心所以請你們外匯局好好去研究一下可不可以可以喔 下一頁"},{"start":409.494,"end":416.442,"text":"好 金管會允許銀行發行穩定幣請問這個跟我們央行的CBDC之間的關聯是什麼"},{"start":418.752,"end":443.205,"text":"我想那個穩定幣他可以發行啊跟我們CPTC發行 打幣嘛對不對那穩定幣是業者嘛 他居然是B2B嘛那透過你們的CPTC他去做個連結目前央行沒有時間表 國際上也沒有推動跨境支付嘛所以你們CPTC沒有要做跨境支付對不對 往下看但是呢 韓國的央行要啟動CPTC的零售交易他連零售交易都要做了"},{"start":444.215,"end":460.823,"text":"有沒有他100萬韓元大概2萬多台幣他一個電子錢包的概念那請問央行目前有沒有推動類似的4點齁零售交易的一些支付方式有沒有南韓現在有4點嗎"},{"start":463.901,"end":477.79,"text":"現在應該算是在試驗階段我們沒有嘛對不對那我們有沒有發展什麼我們現在試驗階段是先從數位券開始我們先不防CPTC我們有沒有類似的支付工具像TWQR有沒有"},{"start":478.857,"end":503.214,"text":"來,那TWQR是什麼?來,董事長講一下TWQR是什麼?跟委員報告,TWQR就是台灣的QR Code,共同的標準好,那目前坊間是不是已經有民間自己的很多版本了?原來是有很多版本,但是現在大家要整合往同一個版本再推進但是它不會只在境內用嗎?我們看下一張,金總裁過來看民間電子業者插旗韓國、日本"},{"start":503.894,"end":514.213,"text":"拓日報捷全支付全年的支付逼進韓國這是今天的新聞啊它說進日本跨境電資之後呢開通了這個全支付可以到韓國到日本都可以用"},{"start":517.113,"end":541.987,"text":"董事長你們有沒有應對的對策跟委員報告我們在韓國在去年的1月就已經開通了所以TWQR也可以是好那是不是沒有輸給全資物我們走在前面往下看所以目前TWQR我們國人出國去日本韓國甚至新加坡都可以使用對不對未來可能新加坡也可以使用有沒有進度有沒有一定執行時間"},{"start":543.372,"end":563.7,"text":"跟委員報告就是說目前到韓國日本都可以那今年呢我們希望日本能夠來台灣使用然後呢再接著推動新加坡也能來台灣使用所以你把我後面要講的也講了總是不能我們觀光客去人家消費我們可以用什麼TWQR人家觀光客來我們消費不能用"},{"start":564.724,"end":592.507,"text":"TWQR吧我們有鼓勵他們用對不對更進一步的我們往下看我們看很多潛力TWQR的發展潛力海外旅遊大家想想看去年的出入境的旅客人士單單是來自於東南亞的國人出國就快三百萬他們來到台灣也超過將近一百七十萬大概有四百六十萬的規模那以國人來說現在國人出國第一位的是什麼去哪裡去日本"},{"start":593.697,"end":622.072,"text":"那其次呢是新南向國家佔了快兩成中國韓國還沒那麼多可是相對的外國的旅客來台灣日本不是第一名喔香港韓國在後面第一名是什麼來自新南向的國家董事長知道了嗎知道這個情況嗎是的好那央行總裁要拜託您對董事長有所要求現在呢我們來看一下往下看現在就是說除了旅客之外另外境外工作者"},{"start":622.925,"end":641.144,"text":"現在在台灣的境外工作者來自海外的工作者在台灣的有高達81萬對不對他們也會返鄉消費有沒有可能他們在台灣也弄了TWQR回去到那種國家不是只有台灣的官方可以使用啊他們這些人也可以當地使用有沒有可能"},{"start":643.083,"end":669.982,"text":"跟委員報告就是說雙邊要有合作當然這個發展是有可能性的是所以說如果未來國人用TWQR可以到日本、韓國、新加坡使用他們這些國家來到台灣也可以使用那甚至到新南向國家台灣的官方也可以使用連他們的移工在地的家屬也可以因為他們在台灣辦了TWQR之後他們的家人在他們的當地也可以使用有沒有這樣的可能"},{"start":672.396,"end":691.883,"text":"總裁最後的結論,因為主席站起來了我的結論就是我的標題,剛剛不讓你看滾動式調整雅致中心的外匯法規,可以嗎?可以啊剛剛我們局長點頭了那TWQR跨國掃碼前進性南向請哲成林董事長財經公司繼續努力可不可以訂個時程表跟計畫給我"},{"start":693.575,"end":696.798,"text":"好 可以啦那兩個都是給我一個13秒的進度計畫謝謝總裁 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":622,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（10時38分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請楊總裁，外匯局蔡局長，還有財金資訊公司林董事長。"],["主席：請總裁、蔡局長、林董事長。"],["楊總裁金龍：鍾委員早。"],["鍾委員佳濱：總裁好。總裁，趁你還沒注意到，我趕快進入下一頁，請問總裁，你認為這三個都市哪一個稱得上是亞洲金融中心？"],["楊總裁金龍：亞洲金融中心的話，我們如果講一般比較會……的話，現在應該就是香港跟新加坡比較……但是現在因為香港本身……"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以香港跟新加坡都算，東京也算吧！"],["楊總裁金龍：他在亞洲裡面算是……"],["鍾委員佳濱：重要的。"],["楊總裁金龍：算是重要的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這三個地方都有設置資產管理中心嗎？都可以吧？"],["楊總裁金龍：因為資產管理中心算是金融中心的一環。"],["鍾委員佳濱：一部分的功能，很好。"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：臺灣有可能取代哪一個成為亞洲金融中心嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：我想我們不要說是取代啦！因為你的發展跟他有些時候不太一樣，不必要說是要取代。"],["鍾委員佳濱：請教一下總裁，你念書的時候有寫過作文「我的志願」，你的志願有沒有想過有一天會當總裁？有沒有？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有想過啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有想過。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那你會不會覺得有一天你可能會成為總統？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不要小看啦！現在加拿大的總理是誰？是前任的總裁啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：是、是、是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以太謙虛，太客氣，過去都不敢想的事情未來不是沒有可能。"],["楊總裁金龍：這一點我才會非常、非常的謝謝鍾委員，給我非常大的鼓勵，說實在的，你在講的時候，我平常不會笑得那麼大聲，但是我笑得那麼大聲是說，我從來沒有想過這個。"],["鍾委員佳濱：總裁，我的意思是……"],["楊總裁金龍：但是，委員給我的鼓勵我真的實在是感恩在心。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們人要有志氣，臺灣就算不能取代人家成為亞洲金融中心，也可以成為一個亞洲的資產管理中心，有這個條件吧？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個我非常贊同。"],["鍾委員佳濱：其實在COVID-19之後，我又再度回到越南，這次我去，有一個臺商接待我，他跟我說他創造一個新的商業模式，怎麼樣呢？他在一個商業大樓底下的大賣場有一個美食廣場，這個美食廣場我們要去吃飯不是一個點、一個點付錢，沒有，他說進去之前，你先弄一個儲值卡，我儲了100萬越盾，你知道多少錢嗎？100萬越盾沒多少啦！1,500臺幣啦！然後這個儲值卡我每一攤就可以去消費，消費完之後，我要離開了，還可以把儲值卡再結清，這樣子我去每一攤也不用再拿越盾去跟他換，這個美食廣場還有誰的客人？還有樓上這些上班族的客人，你覺得這個商業模式有沒有很特別啊？其實我覺得沒有很特別，我後來想一想說，不對啊！小時候我們參加園遊會也是這樣子啊，拿100塊去換園遊券，然後去每個攤位消費，消費完了之後，店家拿園遊券去換錢，是不是這樣？差別在哪裡？還是有個差別，差別是顧客不能拿園遊券把錢換回來，而且是一張一張的，而它所謂的新模式是用儲值卡，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，這個很像什麼呢？這個就很像我們說的亞資中心，兆元投資國家發展方案，央行支不支持兆元投資國家發展方案？"],["楊總裁金龍：當然支持啊。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這個亞資中心是不是其中一個重要部分？"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：它是不是創造一個讓金融業者跟臺灣的這三大，比如公共建設、長照產業、永續產業，把臺幣的這些產業的投資變成金融商品，放到這個亞資中心，也歡迎外來的投資來進行，對不對？最後，它不是園遊券喔，它投資完了之後，沒有用完的、賺到的要帶走，這時候有沒有匯兌的問題？會不會有匯兌的問題？這個亞資中心可能是用美元計價嘛，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們來看看央行怎麼說，央行說亞資中心不得涉及匯率外匯商品，不開放涉新臺幣匯率外匯商品，這個非資產管理的障礙。你們認為這個不會造成資產管理的障礙，為什麼？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們在這邊所講的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：如果園遊券不能換回新臺幣，我這一次去參加園遊會，我去弄了儲值卡，我去那邊消費或幹嘛，我還買了什麼東西，沒用完的可以帶走啊，如果去做生意還可以帶走啊，是不是這樣？所以我希望央行思考一下，你們說對未涉新臺幣匯率的商品是持開放態度，什麼叫開放態度？反過來說就是沒有涉及的是開放，有涉及的就不允許。","金管會現在在負責亞資中心，他們做的這個圖，在多元產業的「有」跟「無」之間，新加坡模式跟香港模式基本上有外資跟金流，但是他們沒有產業，而臺灣有產業有投資，像日本模式，臺灣模式介乎在這兩者之間，結果現在日本、新加坡、香港被列為匯率操縱的觀察名單，你認為臺灣如果加入了這樣的資產管理中心，這個有沒有開放外匯跟你們的擔心有沒有關聯？"],["楊總裁金龍：應該是沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有關聯？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：既然不擔心會被列為匯率操縱的觀察名單，人家日本、新加坡、香港都可以這樣做了，為什麼央行不這樣做？"],["楊總裁金龍：事實上，剛剛你說的園遊會那些，那些都是小額的啦！"],["鍾委員佳濱：是啊，商業模式沒有在分小跟大啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：那些是小額的，我跟委員報告，就小額的來講，我們也都非常自由啊，你看看……"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是我們要做的亞洲資產管理中心是兆元欸！"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦。"],["鍾委員佳濱：兆元你再不開放外匯……"],["楊總裁金龍：不、不、不，對啦，你說的也沒有錯，不過就像那個小額的，你看看個人的部分，我們本來是500萬……"],["鍾委員佳濱：因為是鉅額才不能比照個人用小額的外匯法規去管理嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦，是鉅額的時候啦，小額的話我們也不會管啊。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是啊，所以就問你鉅額的，你不開放或者不做部分的鬆綁，就沒辦法進行嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：不是，我跟你講，以個人來講的話，500萬到1,000萬……"],["鍾委員佳濱：總裁，我們不要岔題，它當然不是園遊會，也不是一個美食廣場的儲值卡，而是一個兆元產業的資產管理中心，所以請你們外匯局好好去研究一下，可不可以？"],["楊總裁金龍：好啦。"],["鍾委員佳濱：金管會允許銀行發行穩定幣，請問這個跟我們央行的CBDC之間的關聯是什麼？"],["楊總裁金龍：穩定幣可以發行啊，跟我們CBDC……"],["鍾委員佳濱：法幣嘛，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：對啊。"],["鍾委員佳濱：穩定幣是業者，他們現在是B2B嘛，透過你們的CBDC去做連結，目前央行沒有時間表，國際上也沒有辦法推動跨境支付嘛，所以你們CBDC沒有要做跨境支付，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是韓國的央行將要啟動CBDC的零售交易耶，他們連零售交易都要做了耶，有沒有？100萬韓元大概是二萬多臺幣，就是一個電子錢包的概念。請問央行目前有沒有要推動類似的？"],["楊總裁金龍：試點的部分……"],["鍾委員佳濱：零售交易的一些支付方式，有沒有？"],["楊總裁金龍：南韓現在有試點嗎？"],["鍾委員佳濱：難道新聞是騙我們的嗎？"],["謝局長鳳瑛：那個現在還在試驗階段。"],["鍾委員佳濱：試驗階段，我們沒有嘛，對不對？"],["謝局長鳳瑛：我們現在……"],["鍾委員佳濱：那我們有沒有發展什麼？"],["謝局長鳳瑛：我們現在試驗階段是先從數位券開始處理。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我們先不說CBDC，我們有沒有類似的支付工具？像TWQR，有沒有？"],["楊總裁金龍：對啊！"],["鍾委員佳濱：TWQR是什麼？來，董事長講一下TWQR是什麼？"],["林董事長國良：跟委員報告，TWQR就是臺灣QR Code的共通標準。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那目前坊間是不是已經有民間自己的很多版本了？"],["林董事長國良：原來是有很多版本，但是現在大家都整合往同一個版本在推進。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是它不會只在境內用啊！請總裁也過來看一下簡報，民間電支業者插旗韓國、日本，「拓日報捷　全支付再嗶進韓國」，這是今天的新聞啊！報導提到全支付繼日本跨境電支之後，今年繼續開通赴韓跨境電支，也就是全支付可以到韓國、到日本都可以用。董事長，你們有沒有應對的對策？"],["林董事長國良：跟委員報告，我們在韓國是去年的1月就已經開通了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以TWQR也可以？"],["林董事長國良：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那就沒有輸給全支付，我們走在前面。所以目前TWQR來說，我們國人出國去日本、韓國，甚至新加坡，都可以使用，對不對？未來有可能新加坡也可以使用……"],["林董事長國良：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有沒有進度？有沒有一定的施行時間？"],["林董事長國良：跟委員報告，目前到韓國、日本都可以，今年呢，我們希望日本能夠來臺灣使用，然後再接著推動新加坡也能來臺灣使用。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，所以你把我後面要講的也講了，總是不能我們的觀光客去人家那邊消費，我們可以用TWQR，但人家觀光客來我們這邊消費卻不能用TWQR吧，我們也鼓勵他們用，對不對？"],["林董事長國良：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：更進一步的，我們來看一下TWQR的發展潛力，第一個是海外旅遊，大家想想看去年出入境的旅客人次，單單是東南亞的部分，國人出國就快300萬，他們來到臺灣也將近170萬，大概有460萬的規模。以國人來說，現在國人出國第一名的是去哪裡？去日本。其次是新南向國家占了快兩成，中國、韓國還沒那麼多，可是相對的，外國的旅客來臺灣的排名，日本不是第一名喔，香港、韓國在後面喔，第一名是什麼？來自新南向的國家。董事長知道了嗎？知道這個情況嗎？"],["林董事長國良：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，楊總裁，要拜託您對董事長有所要求。"],["楊總裁金龍：嗯。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們再往下看，除了旅客之外，另外還有境外工作者，現在在臺灣的境外工作者，也就是來自海外的工作者在臺灣的有高達81萬，他們也會返鄉消費，有沒有可能他們在臺灣也弄了TWQR回去到他們自己的國家，不是只有臺灣的觀光客可以使用啊，他們這些人也可以在當地使用，有沒有可能？"],["林董事長國良：跟委員報告，雙邊要有合作，當然這個發展是有可能性的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以說，如果未來國人用TWQR可以到日本、韓國、新加坡使用，他們這些國家的人來到臺灣也可以使用，甚至到新南向國家，臺灣的觀光客可以使用，連移工的在地家屬也可以因為他們在臺灣辦了TWQR之後，他們的家人在他們當地也可以使用，有沒有這樣的可能？"],["林董事長國良：報告委員，是有可能的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：總裁，我做最後的結論，因為主席站起來了，我的結論就是我的標題，剛剛不讓你看，就是「滾動式調整亞資中心外匯法規」，可以嗎？剛剛我們局長點頭了。"],["楊總裁金龍：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：至於TWQR跨國掃碼前進新南向，請責成林董事長、財金公司繼續努力。"],["楊總裁金龍：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可不可以訂個時程表跟計畫給我？"],["楊總裁金龍：好，可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，這兩個都給我一個時程表的進度及計畫。"],["楊總裁金龍：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝總裁，謝謝。"],["楊總裁金龍：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鍾委員的質詢。","下一位請羅明才委員質詢，羅委員質詢完畢後休息10分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-2","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","顏寬恒","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","羅明才","黃珊珊","林思銘","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","王鴻薇","邱志偉","陳冠廷","李柏毅"],"page_start":169,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍率所屬單位主管暨財金資訊股份有限公司董事長列席業務報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}