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好吧我們這個 弄了兩個問題就是這次詠英高教基到底是設計的問題還是維修的問題這個很專業以我的常識 以我的專業我沒有辦法去做判斷一定要有個小組小組到現在組成這個調查專案小組大概才經過今天是"},{"start":145.546,"end":172.086,"text":"今天是3月13還不到一個月調查報告就出來了初步的調查報告初步調查報告結論就是是因為什麼是因為機械因素沒有都還沒有可能的機械因素因為目前飛機的前端殘殼剛打牢起來所以是初步的報告初步的報告結論是什麼初步的報告都還沒有"},{"start":173.137,"end":201.164,"text":"那今天還沒有報告那我們報告的意義在哪裡好像委員報告今天是因為大院開的題目是失事後的檢修情況所以我們今天是針對這個失事後的檢修情況來做報告那檢修的狀況如何呢目前交機是47架嘛47架扣掉一架46架其他46架都檢修的過程檢修的結果怎麼樣"},{"start":201.69,"end":221.007,"text":"就像在報告的內容裡面我們現在目前檢修的是36架然後情況都正常我們針對了4類12項那個是把它爐裂出來特別檢查項目檢查的結果是正常的"},{"start":221.837,"end":240.379,"text":"那最終的調查報告什麼時候會出來呢?剛剛副部長有跟您報告的昨天下午我們把機身前段撈起來了然後黑盒子找到了相信現在打撈的工作還在持續進行如果把關鍵的"},{"start":242.581,"end":263.047,"text":"這個零組件都打撈上來之後我們會送到運安會然後實施專案小組會共同來做逐項的做分析所以沒有辦法排除是機械的因素沒有在人因環境也沒有辦法排除是設計的因素現在目前還沒辦法是"},{"start":264.625,"end":285.092,"text":"那我希望說這個報告出來能夠有一個很客觀的原因是 絕對那後面這個相關的這個當然沒有人會希望說類似的情況再發生是特別是交際沒有多久那你後續還有47加66 還有9加1交 對不對那我第二個問題請教一下副部長就是說AE3要太儲"},{"start":292.096,"end":311.958,"text":"A3在飛就是在空軍官校我每天都看空軍官校的A3在飛那初教基那未來就是接著高教基航太產業不管是賴總統或者是蔡總統或者賴總統都是國家重點的產業對不對所以航太產業它的最重要的依靠就是"},{"start":313.666,"end":341.799,"text":"國機國造 這個副長您同意嗎 同意 國機國造我們從這個高校機從永營號開始過去當然有一些辯論 你到時候外購還是要要這個製造所以到最後還是有國造所以我覺得這個方向 這個決策是正確的我們才能累積這個設計或者研發或者人才這個各方面的人量把這個延續到初教級 初教級的目前建案規劃是什麼時候呢"},{"start":343.905,"end":369.173,"text":"出教機建案的規劃時程像委員報告稍早之前部長有在這邊講了T3式出教機的部分我們會規劃在122到124年才會陸續接受那現在我們已經有向國防部提出了整個建案的這個程序那後續剛剛委員所這個查詢的不管是國內外"},{"start":370.734,"end":385.789,"text":"的傷情或者這個成熟的技術等等我們會做做這個相關的評估您的評估一定是從122年開始才有這個建案的需求不是才是有汰換的需求"},{"start":386.621,"end":400.34,"text":"就是T3是才122年開始陸續接受所以這種狀況之下你既然是在接受前幾年嘛對不對對 是的然後你規劃你預計是這個接受前三年好了你119"},{"start":403.343,"end":431.77,"text":"現在是114五年之後才會建案建案之後還有相關的程序你要決定決策上是要外購還是要自製是的所以我覺得這個時程有沒有可能提早呢因為這牽涉到國內航太產業的發展我想請提供書面資料給我因為時間到了我必須遵守會議的規則這是一個好的模範如果每一個人都無價值啊立法院就亂了"},{"start":433.462,"end":437.926,"text":"我也可以五加十啊這不是一個夠格的國會議員該有的作為"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":520,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時16分）謝謝主席。我先會議詢問，請問列席委員發言時間是幾分鐘？列席啊！列席委員發言時間是幾分鐘？"],["主席：5分鐘。"],["邱委員志偉：那我看好像是5+10，好像是5+10，我能不能比照辦理？我當召委的時候，我當主席的時候，一定要維持會議的公平性、會議的流暢性，不能有些人講到昏天暗地、天荒地老，主席都沒有任何動作，我覺得對其他委員不公平。我在立法院質詢，雖然行政跟立法是監督跟被監督的關係，但基本上互動是以理相待，論證是在以理論證，道理的理，不是說時間長、不是說大小聲就贏，要講道理。","我要拜託主席，是不是以後時間控管，我在南部耶！我還要搭高鐵，因為他這個5+10，我的高鐵跑掉了，我要對我的鄉親、我的選民如何交代？你要考慮到我們的苦衷，你們都在臺北，我是在高雄，還要一個半小時的車程，我早上很早就來，我要搭6點半的高鐵，來這邊苦苦等待一個5分鐘的質詢，結果前面還有一個5+10。那我請問一下主席，我能不能比照辦理？"],["主席：我想……"],["邱委員志偉：我不會為難你啦，時間到就時間到。"],["主席：好，這個我們會了解，那我們就針對你現在要質詢的議題。"],["邱委員志偉：一個原則，以理相待，用理論證。","今天部長已經先離開了，那代表是楊常次嗎？"],["鍾副部長樹明：是鍾副部長。邱委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：鍾副部長，大概是幾個問題請教，我們就濃縮成兩個問題。這次勇鷹高教機失事到底是設計的問題，還是維修的問題？這個很專業，以我的常識、以我的專業，我沒有辦法做出判斷，一定要有個小組。組成的這個調查專案小組，今天是3月13日，還不到一個月，調查報告就出來了。"],["鍾副部長樹明：初步的調查報告。"],["邱委員志偉：初步調查報告的結論是因為什麼？是因為機械因素嗎？"],["鍾副部長樹明：沒有，都還沒有。"],["邱委員志偉：蛤？可能的機械因素？"],["鍾副部長樹明：因為目前飛機的前端殘骸剛打撈起來，所以要判斷。"],["邱委員志偉：那是初步報告的結論是什麼？"],["鍾副部長樹明：初步的報告都還沒有。"],["邱委員志偉：你們還沒有報告，那我們今天報告的意義在哪裡？"],["王參謀長德揚：向委員報告，今天大院開會的題目是失事後的檢修情況，所以我們今天是針對失事後的檢修情況來做報告。"],["邱委員志偉：好，那檢修的狀況如何呢？目前交機是47架嘛。"],["王參謀長德揚：是。"],["邱委員志偉：47架扣掉1架是46架，其他46架檢修的過程、檢修的結果怎麼樣？"],["王參謀長德揚：就像報告的內容提到的，我們目前檢修的是36架，情況都正常。我們針對4類12項特別臚列出來的檢查項目，檢查的結果是正常的。"],["邱委員志偉：那最終的調查報告什麼時候會出來呢？"],["王參謀長德揚：剛剛副部長有跟您報告了，昨天下午我們把機身前段撈起來了，黑盒子也找到了，現在打撈的工作還在持續進行，如果把關鍵的零組件都打撈上來之後，我們會送到運安會，然後這個專案小組會共同逐項的來做分析。"],["邱委員志偉：所以沒有辦法排除是機械的因素？"],["王參謀長德揚：沒有。在人因環境……"],["邱委員志偉：也沒有辦法排除是設計的因素？"],["王參謀長德揚：目前還沒辦法，是。"],["邱委員志偉：好，我希望這個報告出來能夠有一個很客觀的原因。"],["王參謀長德揚：是，絕對。"],["邱委員志偉：然後供後面相關的這個……，當然沒有人會希望類似情況再發生。"],["王參謀長德揚：是。"],["邱委員志偉：特別是交機沒有多久。"],["王參謀長德揚：是。"],["邱委員志偉：好，那你後續還有9架要交，對不對？"],["王參謀長德揚：嗯，不只。"],["邱委員志偉：還有9架要交。第二個問題請教副部長，AT-3要汰除，AT-3要飛都是在空軍官校，我每天都看空軍官校的AT-3在飛。初教機未來就是接著高教機，航太產業不管是在蔡總統或是賴總統，都是國家重點的產業，對不對？所以航太產業最重要的依靠就是「國機國造」，這個副部長您同意嗎？"],["鍾副部長樹明：同意。"],["邱委員志偉：好，國機國造我們從高教機從勇鷹號開始，過去當然有一些辯論，到底是外購還是要國造？到最後還是國造，我覺得這個方向、這個決策是正確的，我們才能累積設計、研發，或者人才各方面的能量，把這個延續到初教機，初教機目前建案規劃是什麼時候呢？初教機建案的規劃時程？"],["王參謀長德揚：向委員報告，稍早之前部長也有在這邊講，T-34初教機的部分，我們會規劃在122到124年才會陸續屆壽。現在我們已經有向國防部提出了整個建案的程序，後續剛剛委員所查詢的，不管是國內外的商情，或者是成熟的技術等等，我們會做相關的評估。"],["邱委員志偉：您的意思是從122年開始才有建案的需求……"],["王參謀長德揚：不是，我們……"],["邱委員志偉：還是一個汰換的需求？"],["王參謀長德揚：就是T-34是122年才開始陸續屆壽。"],["邱委員志偉：所以這種狀況之下，你建案是在屆壽前幾年嘛，對不對？"],["王參謀長德揚：對，是的。"],["邱委員志偉：好，你規劃、預劃是屆壽前三年好了，現在是114年，5年之後才會建案，建案之後還有相關的程序，你要決定決策上是要外購還是要自製？"],["王參謀長德揚：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：這個時程有沒有可能提早呢？因為這牽涉到國內航太產業的發展，我想請提供書面資料給我。"],["鍾副部長樹明：好。"],["邱委員志偉：因為時間到了，我必須遵守會議的規則，這是一個好的模範，如果每一個人都5+10，立法院就亂了，我也可以5+10啊！但這不是一個夠格的國會議員該有的作為。"],["主席：謝謝邱志偉委員的提示。請回座。","接下來請蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員不在。","徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在。","已登記質詢委員除不在場外，均已經發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。","本日會議有林憶君委員、王定宇委員、羅智強委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面於兩週內答復。委員口頭質詢未及答復部分或要求補充資料者，亦請相關單位以書面於兩週內答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-2","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳冠廷","林楚茵","陳永康","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","徐巧芯","黃國昌","邱志偉","林憶君","王定宇","羅智強"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長報告「國機國造交機進度及勇鷹高教機失事後檢修情況」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}