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請問邱部長跟石署長卓偉好好柏廉是我們一年看接近的人次到底多少"},{"start":25.157,"end":39.143,"text":"我看到很多data有的是說總人口數的20%有的講40%到底是我都不曉得確實的一年急診的人次是多少這個有統計嗎"},{"start":42.017,"end":66.186,"text":"我們查一下好了那第二個這個急診的問題因為你我們署長是長很接近的嘛那市長也很接近的所以這個急診的問題事實上是從我們第八對立委的時候就一直突顯出來所以不是現在才發生那為什麼今年會特別嚴重為什麼 署長"},{"start":72.966,"end":76.392,"text":"當然有很多的原因我們過去認為當然是不是"},{"start":81.178,"end":108.352,"text":"免疫負載以後的感染病比較多這當然是一部分那天氣的一個變化所以集中症的就是說中風心臟病或者慢性病的一個惡化這個也是其中之一那當然我們也了解到如果上上面的床數沒有足沒有夠的話當然上就上不去那這個部分也會變成在急診後床方面的一個"},{"start":109.829,"end":114.656,"text":"一個問題會呈現出來我想都是原因我們都慢慢在預防、在檢討"},{"start":118.194,"end":146.887,"text":"那急診要做分級醫療要做什麼我覺得一直推都推不成功的原因最主要是我們來看急診的病人我們分1、2、3、4、5級嘛1級、2級是最嚴重3級是普通4級、5級是可以等待那現在的問題是我們人口老化那小孩子又都在多位區那老人家都在鄉下比較多"},{"start":147.847,"end":174.974,"text":"那所以這些老人到急診他可能三幾個來但是他會好轉的稍微半但是會惡化的也一半所以連醫生也沒辦法掌握這個病人是會好轉還是惡化尤其像現在呼吸道感染如果又病加細菌感染又是病毒一個晚上就白掉了整個肺部我們在急診看到就是這樣"},{"start":175.934,"end":187.756,"text":"所以,你也不敢強制說哇,你剛才,你剛才急診,你剛才,你剛才問診看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,看,"},{"start":204.502,"end":212.174,"text":"台灣會做這個分級醫療做不成功很難成功這個就是最大的問題普頓你覺得怎麼樣"},{"start":214.864,"end":242.674,"text":"我感覺稍微講一下就有得益了但是我們這個可以改善啦譬如說我們如果能夠不要生小病小病能夠馬上得到診斷就不會每次都已經到很嚴重才到急診嘛所以我們現在的努力整個說實在的健康台灣現在很重視從營養、運動、生活型態的一個改變大家看比較健康的"},{"start":243.474,"end":250.801,"text":"第二你第一算要有一個全民的健康健全各種服務那這些基層醫療大家來做要讓百合民眾來信任我們的基層的診所我想這個我們早期過去是說醫師公會、理事長也是對基層醫療非常的重視"},{"start":261.71,"end":286.275,"text":"跟加強這是一直大家在努力的民眾可以有信心我也不能強迫說民眾要有信心而是我們要提出我們可以做哪些事情讓民眾有信心他自然就不會跑去我比較心想也不要用硬性的讓民眾能夠有信心這不會是最重要的我們的家屬跟病人自己會選擇"},{"start":287.995,"end":300.714,"text":"自己會虛擬的分類他會怎麼樣他不敢去哪裡他會趕快跑大醫院跑大醫院是最他最大的安心嘛所以去那邊擠去那邊塞你也安心"},{"start":301.827,"end":317.478,"text":"所以現在這撒不走,這也是公派處,也是好處啊你看日本做分子醫療,做得很好,做得下癮好,那就是出事了一個救護車撒的,在那邊撞,在那邊撞,沒人要收日本就是這樣,真的這樣啊,所以像日本這樣好,我也不知道"},{"start":322.865,"end":333.74,"text":"所以藝人在那裡出事我講那裡就藝人那種case在民東就不會出事了不要說對去到我那裡我一口沒了就整起來了"},{"start":334.827,"end":358.349,"text":"真的生氣了急診室就在生啊所以跟大家報告我們台灣這個醫療的可敬性跟高水平又廣覆蓋當然問題一大堆大家從早上罵到現在但是我覺得我們就是那麼棒嘛我們就這麼好啊保健你這麼好啊署長你也這麼好啊大家拚到死啊有限的資源做那麼多事我是覺得我要跟你們肯定啦"},{"start":359.891,"end":376.245,"text":"事實上真的大家都盡心盡力講一些情緒話有什麼了不起呢大家也有情緒所以我覺得這個都可以理解大家要同理心這個問題也從馬英九時代到蔡英文時代到現在"},{"start":377.646,"end":395.023,"text":"都一樣啊但是現在如果可以越改善當然是越好啦所以我們大家不要講意識形態啦這個醫療跟意識形態一點關係都沒有啦所以普通 你會看到什麼啊再來就是 那個福利的大家現在站一腳就三十幾萬人在線上的才十幾萬人"},{"start":399.298,"end":416.8,"text":"有一大堆是回家帶小孩照顧公婆他是可以出來做part-time的那這一塊剛剛你有講到說可以把他recall回來這在美國就很多啦美國就很多就是他你叫他做全職他沒辦法"},{"start":418.041,"end":438.49,"text":"但是這些人他們就組一個公司也好啦一個是合作社也好啊你就Apply啊他就來給你part-time來做三點鐘四點鐘這在美國很平常的啊我們這裡這塊這一塊真的要好好的來應用啦不然這些人都是人力浪費啊是寶丁你覺得怎麼樣"},{"start":440.13,"end":454.535,"text":"我們在12項的護理人力裡面第10項就是多元化彈性護理自治職業那國防會也對這一點也要做一點幫助這真的像我們太太過去都照顧小孩現在小孩比較不要理他他就開始恢復去樂團拉琴並不理我這樣就對了"},{"start":465.199,"end":485.06,"text":"所以但是他能夠這些回流到護理在化為他過去的護理的專業我覺得是一個很珍貴我跟部長報告我們屏東縣的個衛生所的護理人員退休我們都趁回來做什麼做長照、做照覆"},{"start":486.661,"end":513.308,"text":"他65歲,我60歲,拿下來身強體壯,你讓他去拉琴他也沒有婦女,他也沒有婦女這就沒意義了所以,這些人就回來了衛生所的主任65歲退休,我就把他請回來當公衛做什麼幾乎只要來,我就拼所以我要拼我們的衛生所主任退休下來我現在已經解決了,很好啊"},{"start":515.609,"end":541.635,"text":"有的到七八十歲還很強啊所以現在的人沒有退休年齡嘛所以這個都是人力的運用啦這個我們會努力的這個你們都沒有看到好那最後一分鐘給我我要講一下我們自己的事情這個要感謝因為我們從去年我們安排法人會休除"},{"start":542.675,"end":558.852,"text":"還在往後胎頭頭頭傷亡慘重那我們從去年10月3號到現在我今天是第二次發生我從來不講話的那都默默的在做該怎麼樣"},{"start":561.004,"end":583.151,"text":"民事的補償、賠償都在完善那所有的轉出去的病人回來只要跟我們要求我全部都給他給我我沒說過話從來沒有在媒體上講過任何一句負面的話我們都一直在做我們10月3號輝學署訪台10月4號我們就在做緊急診療館這樣"},{"start":588.633,"end":599.17,"text":"我們是醫護人員這麼拼然後我們的護理人員從六個多月來離職的不到十個"},{"start":600.407,"end":622.069,"text":"不到10個我沒有給他輔導到法人 其他的長照什麼 朝朝安泰等等我們是盡心盡 現在有好戶價的那這些偏鄉的醫護人員 當然是我們要保護啊我們是袋子袋心 請他休假等等或者是平常沒有休假的就給他補休"},{"start":623.65,"end":640.705,"text":"做到非常非常完善那我們也很認真在做很感謝我們衛福部我們醫事師我們健保署還有我們屏東縣政府都給我們一直的幫忙輔導所以我在這邊要跟大家致謝那我們希望"},{"start":642.026,"end":656.262,"text":"我們的員工能夠呵護他們鼓勵他們讓他們那邊繼續來替我們的屏南地區重度責任醫院我們的角色我們是努力在扮演那昨天"},{"start":657.663,"end":683.184,"text":"我們在這邊投票醫事師 醫策會還是做重症的考核我也很感謝所以在這裡補充再次的致謝希望大家一起來跟我們的員工跟我們的醫護人員大家一起呵護 一起鼓勵不要不要沒有意義啦我從來不講過一句負面的話所以我在這裡要跟"},{"start":684.105,"end":712.011,"text":"部長在一次的報告那我們你看我們這個這個上一張這個排碼排案榜我不曉得要怎麼排的啦這個是newsweek他們排的我們屏東縣還是我們安泰的員工的努力我們是台灣排32名的耶這不是我白說的耶 屏東只有這間而已所以不要亂說啦也不要亂說啦我是覺得大家一起來啦感謝各位 謝謝"},{"start":713.24,"end":713.944,"text":"好 謝謝委員 謝謝政務委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":716,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（11時23分）謝謝主席，我請部長還有石署長。"],["主席：請邱部長跟石署長。"],["邱部長泰源：召委好。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長，我們一年看急診的人次到底有多少？我看到很多data，有的說是總人口數的20%，有的講40%，到底是多少？我都不曉得確實一年急診的人次是多少？"],["邱部長泰源：這個有統計嗎？"],["石署長崇良：有，稍等一下，我們查一下。"],["邱部長泰源：我們查一下。"],["蘇委員清泉：第二個，關於急診的問題，因為署長是作急診的，司長也是作急診的，急診的問題事實上從第八屆立委的時候就一直突顯出來，不是現在才發生，為什麼今年會特別嚴重？為什麼？"],["邱部長泰源：有很多原因，我們過去認為是不是免疫負債以後的感染病比較多，這當然是一部分。天氣的變化，導致急重症包括中風、心臟病或者慢性病的惡化，也是其中之一。我們也了解到如果上面的床數沒有足夠，當然就上不去嘛，這也會變成在急診候床的問題呈現出來。這些原因，我們方方面面都在預防、檢討。"],["蘇委員清泉：急診要作分級醫療，我覺得一直推都不成功的原因，最主要是來看急診的病人分為一、二、三、四、五級。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：一級、二級是最嚴重，三級的普通，四級、五級的可以等待。現在的問題是我們人口老化，小孩子又都在都會區，老人家在鄉下比較多。這些老人到急診，有可能三級就來，但是會好轉的差不多一半，會惡化的也占一半，連醫生也沒辦法掌握病人會好轉還是惡化。尤其現在呼吸道感染，如果又併發細菌感染或感染病毒，整個肺部一個晚上就白掉了，我們在急診看到的就是這樣。所以你也不敢強制讓他們先到門診或診所，看完如果情況嚴重再來醫院或急診，沒有人敢說這種話啦，連我也不敢跟人家這樣講。所以大家都塞在急診，把病人送到急診來，家屬才安心，外勞也安心，因為送到醫院來就是醫院的事了。把人送到安泰醫院、臺大的急診室，就是你家的事了，換成是你的事了。所以臺灣的分級醫療做不成功，很難成功，這就是最大的問題。部長，你覺得怎麼樣？"],["邱部長泰源：我覺得召委說得很有道理，但是我們可以改善這些情況，比如說我們如果能夠不要生小病或生小病能夠馬上得到診斷，就不會每次都已經很嚴重才到急診。所以我們現在努力，說實在的，現在很重視健康臺灣，從營養、運動、生活型態的改變，大家活得比較健康。","第二，第一線有全民健檢等各種服務，基層醫療大家一起來做，拜託民眾信任基層的診所。我想召委過去擔任醫師公會理事長的時候，也對基層醫療非常的重視跟加強，這是大家一直在努力的。如果可以給民眾信心，我們也不能強迫民眾要有信心，而是要提出我們可以做哪些事情，讓民眾有信心，他自然就不會跑去急診，我比較傾向不要用硬性的啦！讓民眾能夠有信心最重要。"],["蘇委員清泉：我們的家屬跟病人自己會選擇，自己會虛擬的分類，他會怎麼樣，他不敢去哪裡，他會趕快跑大醫院，跑大醫院是他最大的安心嘛，去那邊擠、去那邊塞，他也安心，所以現在這個推不動，這是壞處也是好處。你看日本做分級醫療做得那麼好，做到那樣好，還是出事。病患送進救護車就到處跑，沒人要收，日本就是這樣，現在就是這樣，像日本這樣好嗎？我也不知道，所以藝人在那裡出事，如果那種case在屏東就不會出事了，不要說哪裡，到我們那裡，葉克膜就裝上去了，真的裝上去，急診室就會裝了。所以跟大家報告，我們臺灣醫療的可近性跟高水平又廣覆蓋，雖然問題一大堆，大家從早上罵到現在，但是我覺得我們就是那麼棒嘛！我們就是這麼好啊！部長這麼好，署長也這麼好啊！大家都很拚命，有限的資源做那麼多事，我是覺得我要給你們肯定啦！事實上真的大家都盡心盡力，說一些情緒話有什麼了不起呢？大家也有情緒，所以我覺得這個都可以理解，大家要有同理心。這個問題從馬英九時代到蔡英文時代，到現在都一樣啊！但是現在如果可以改善當然是越好，所以我們大家不要講意識形態，這個醫療跟意識形態一點關係都沒有。部長，你的看法是什麼？","再來就是護理的部分，現在拿執照的有三十多萬人，在線上的才十幾萬人，有一大堆是回家帶小孩、照顧公婆，他是可以出來做part time的，這一塊剛剛你有講到說可以把他recall回來，這在美國就有很多，美國很多就是你叫他做全職沒辦法，但是這些人就組一個公司也好、一個合作社也好，你給他apply，他就來做part time3小時、4小時，這在美國是很平常的，這一塊我們真的要好好的來運用，不然這些人就是人力浪費。部長，你覺得怎樣？"],["邱部長泰源：我們在12項的護理人力裡面，第10項就是多元化彈性，護理自主執業，國發會對這一點也要做一點幫助，像我太太過去都照顧小孩，現在小孩比較不愛理她，她就開始恢復去樂團拉琴也沒有理我，所以這些人力能夠回流到護理，再發揮他過去的護理專業，我覺得這是很珍貴的。"],["蘇委員清泉：我跟部長報告，我們屏東縣各衛生所的護理人員退休，我都請他們回來做長照、做照護。她65歲、60歲退下來，還身強體壯，你卻讓她去拉琴，這就沒意義了，對不對？"],["邱部長泰源：她不會護理啦！"],["蘇委員清泉：所以讓這些人都回來，衛生所的主任65歲退休，我都把他請回來做公衛，幾乎只要來我就聘。所以屏東縣衛生所主任退休下來的，現在已經有很多位了，很好啊！有的到七、八十歲還很強，所以現在的人沒有退休年齡嘛！這個都是人力的運用。"],["邱部長泰源：是，這個我們會努力。"],["蘇委員清泉：這個你們都沒有看到。好，最後一分鐘給我，我要講一下我們自己的事情，這個要感謝。去年我們安泰法人發生火災又遭逢颱風，一塌糊塗，傷亡慘重。我們從去年10月3號到現在，我今天是第二次發聲，我從來不講話的，都默默的在做，民事的補償、賠償都完善，所有轉出去的病人回來，只要跟我們要求，我全部都讓他們圓滿。我沒說過半句話，從來沒有在媒體上講過任何一句負面的話，我們都一直在做。我們10月3號發生火災、颱風，10月4號我們就在做緊急心導管，我們的醫護人員這麼拼，然後我們的護理人員這6個多月來，離職的不到10個，我們又把他輔導到法人或其他的長照等等。我們是盡心盡力在呵護這些人，這些偏鄉的醫護人員當然是我們要保護的，我們是帶職帶薪請他休假等等，或者是平常沒有休假，全部給他補休，做到非常非常完善。我們很認真在做，很感謝衛福部、醫事司、健保署，還有屏東縣政府，都一直給我們幫忙輔導，所以我在這邊要跟大家致謝。我們希望能夠呵護我們的員工，鼓勵他們，讓他們能繼續替屏南地區的重度責任醫院扮演好我們的角色，我們是努力在扮演。","昨天我們在這邊投票，醫事司、醫策會還去做重症的考核，我也很感謝，所以在這裡向部長再次的致謝，希望大家一起來給我們的員工給我們的醫護人員呵護，大家一起鼓勵，不要胡亂罵，那沒有意義。我也從來不講一句負面的話，所以我在這裡要跟部長再一次報告，你看這個排行榜，我不曉得怎麼排的，這個是Newsweek他們排的，屏東縣還是我們安泰員工的努力，我們是臺灣排第32名的，這不是亂講的，屏東縣只有這間而已，所以沒那麼差，也不要亂罵。我是覺得大家一起來，感謝各位，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員，謝謝召委。"],["主席：好，謝謝蘇清泉委員。","我們請下一位王正旭委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","黃秀芳","王正旭","林淑芬","羅智強","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","洪孟楷","張啓楷","劉建國","陳培瑜","楊曜","王義川"],"page_start":227,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長就「有關全國急重症醫療量能」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}