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那事情嚴重喔"},{"start":201.991,"end":223.502,"text":"一個媒體喔公開的散播假訊息啊污蔑國防部啊還捏造是國防部的回應啊這知識體大沒有得到國防部的授權說這是國防部的回應結果散播的還是假訊息啊嚴重的國安問題啊副部長這件事情可以不追究嗎來請教"},{"start":227.472,"end":252.296,"text":"不要迴避問題,要不要追究?該不該追究?有沒有追究?說清楚後續我們會...後續?你們什麼時候發現是假訊息?你們去年10月30號就發現是假訊息啊?到現在做了什麼處理?除了回函給我做了什麼處理?第一個部分是我們已經有發布新聞稿來正式的澄清然後散播假訊息的人法律責任要不要追究?"},{"start":253.22,"end":268.532,"text":"那第二個部分是已經通知廠商來解約,並且列入口號一個一個來啦,不要混淆問題啊剛我的問題清楚明瞭嘛這種散播假訊息的媒體捏造國防部的回應啊,責任要不要追究"},{"start":269.488,"end":290.76,"text":"要還是不要還是從國防部的立場沒關係啦被人家散播假訊息我國防部也是摸摸鼻子就算了因為被因為散播假訊息啊的那個媒體綠營後台很硬我國防部也得罪不起是這樣嗎來請副部長說清楚齁要不要追究責任"},{"start":292.148,"end":319.167,"text":"要不要因為對於假訊息的部分我們大部分都是發布新聞稿來做一個這樣就算了喔哇 那你們國防部對付捏造國防部訊息的軟趴趴這很嚴重耶這是國防部向來的立場嗎這個立場對嗎散播假訊息要不要追究還是看情況如果利盈後台很硬就不追究"},{"start":320.612,"end":335.992,"text":"否則的話才追究這是國防部的立場嗎來 說清楚目前對任何的爭議跟假訊息不會有任何政黨的立場好 所以要不要追究還是不追究 算了是這樣嗎 要不要追究"},{"start":341.36,"end":366.716,"text":"因為對於正義的訊息我們目前是以新聞稿的方式來對嘛 所以我說國防部軟趴趴嘛那你的立場今天很嚴重喔以後任何人代表我們的國防部散播假訊息結果國防部唯一的處置就是發布新聞稿副部長你覺得這個態度對嗎要不要重新檢討後續我們跟法律師做個研究之後啊 需要多久"},{"start":368.22,"end":376.031,"text":"要研究多久去年10月30號現在已經3月了啦軟趴趴昏睡沉睡到現在了啦還要再睡多久"},{"start":377.239,"end":406.508,"text":"需要跟法律師研究多久 這問題很困難嗎我們兩週之內跟委員做個說明兩週之內 不用跟我回覆啊 所有回覆我是跟所有外交國防委員會的委員回覆啊跟台灣社會說明啊我們的國防部啊 在面對啊這種垃圾假訊息的時候啊 的態度是什麼是軟趴趴嗎還是我們散播假訊息的要關三天要不要處理對假訊息我們一定會馬上的來做澄清跟說明來 第二個"},{"start":408.035,"end":434.229,"text":"我上次追聯合再生聯合再生在我們的國防要塞專會嚴重影響有國安疑慮的資通訊產品結果什麼結果我追了半天你們拖了半天終於解約了來問一下東西拆完了沒有東西拆完了沒有終止契約以後終止契約很簡單嘛"},{"start":435.598,"end":444.986,"text":"你佔用我們國防要塞的地的東西全部給我拆得乾乾淨淨土土地還過來現在拆的進度如何?現在都在法院"},{"start":447.81,"end":470.075,"text":"跟委員報告上次去年委員所指導的我們都已經依規定都已經解除他的企業目前拆除的部分該廠商都有在行政訴訟現在都在法院審理中我們一定會依照這個法律相關規定一定要嚴格來執行以上報告你報告錯了啦他不可能提行政訴訟"},{"start":471.275,"end":500.399,"text":"有 現在都是 他提的是行政訴訟嗎這是永陽公司跟那個企業關係的訴訟他們都提出企業關係的訴訟我老實跟你講 那個叫民事訴訟對 民事訴訟四個假處分法院都准了嗎只有准了一個 三個還在訴訟中沒有 只有准一個 其他三個你為什麼不猜只有一個定暫時狀態的處分我知道嘛其他三個都沒有定暫時狀態的處分可以不猜喔"},{"start":501.55,"end":530.66,"text":"可以不用猜喔你們國防部到底是在怎麼保護軍事要塞的啊軟趴趴成這個樣子啊一個拿到定戰時狀態的處分我知道所以我問你其他三個為什麼不用猜現在是在訴訟中公司有提出來在民事訴訟中不要講這種模擬兩可的東西啦他有申請定戰時狀態的處分法院還沒准嘛法院還沒准他該不該猜當然該猜嘛"},{"start":532.113,"end":555.271,"text":"如果法院還沒有准他都可以不用猜那他何必去申請定戰時狀態的處分那個定戰時狀態的處分有什麼意義國防部加油一點好不好硬起來好不好還是因為這個聯合再生有綠營的背景軟趴趴一模一樣國防部看到聯合再生就要跪下去硬起來好不好"},{"start":556.547,"end":581.897,"text":"可以嗎?副部長跟委員報告沒有任何政黨的一個背景的理智反對對啊但是你們做出來哩哩啦啦啦人民看不懂我也看不懂啊我們都要保護台灣的國家安全啊這種廠商做這麼惡質的事情結果國防部軟趴趴成這個樣子回去檢討需要多久?一樣兩個禮拜好不好?可以嗎?"},{"start":583.407,"end":591.529,"text":"我們兩個禮拜之後把辦理的情形跟委員做個說明後續我們還是要依法來辦理當然要依法來辦理嘛好 時間到"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":464,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時5分）謝謝主席，因為部長已經請假離開了，現在按照規定，國防部應該是由誰代表詢答？"],["主席：鍾副部長。"],["黃委員國昌：好，請副部長。"],["鍾副部長樹明：黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：副部長好。我們台灣民眾黨向來的立場是絕對支持給我們國軍弟兄最好的資源，我們要給他們最好的設備，我們要給他們可以阻止敵人來犯的武器，才可以捍衛臺灣的國家安全，我相信這不僅僅是台灣民眾黨的立場，而且是全民的共識，但是我對於吸納稅人的血、拿國家的錢胡搞瞎搞，置國軍弟兄的安危於不顧的不肖廠商跟官商勾結，我是深惡痛絕！這種人一定要嚴查嚴辦到底，副部長贊不贊成？"],["鍾副部長樹明：贊成。"],["黃委員國昌：好，所以我從去年開始就一直在追，一堆垃圾廠商從中國進口劣質原料，搞那種抗彈布、防彈纖維、防彈背心，根本沒有辦法維護我們所有基層士兵的安全，這件事我為什麼一而再、再而三的追？因為這些廠商從我的觀點來講，基本上就是垃圾！就是惡質的廠商，要辦到底。副部長贊不贊成？"],["鍾副部長樹明：是。"],["黃委員國昌：贊成嗎？"],["鍾副部長樹明：贊成。"],["黃委員國昌：贊成嘛，但有嗎？有嗎？我在追查的時候發現很奇怪，這一些從中國進口劣質原料、置國家安全於不顧、置我們基層士兵安危於不顧的垃圾廠商，竟然連停權都沒有辦法做，所以我就開始追怎麼會有這麼離譜的事情啊，結果有一個媒體叫鏡週刊，說這是因為依照工程會的調解，所以沒有刊載政府採購公報，依照工程會的調解，所以沒有辦停權。哇！把責任推給我們政府機關，這個事情大條了，因為包括辦這個調解的工程會，包括參與調解的國防部，竟然依照調解的內容縱放這種垃圾廠商，這是天大地大的事情啊！結果全部都是假訊息。請問一下國防部，現在做了什麼事情？這種假訊息可以不用追究嗎？來！請副部長，對不起，我沒有請別人代答。"],["鍾副部長樹明：有關委員剛剛講的，就是我們在111年10月12號……"],["黃委員國昌：我講過的東西不用複述啦，現在我的問題很簡單，你們國防部回函給我說這個陳述非屬事實，消息來源不是本部，那事情嚴重了！一個媒體公開的散播假訊息，誣衊國防部，還捏造是國防部的回應，茲事體大，沒有得到國防部的授權，卻說這是國防部的回應，散播的還是假訊息，這是嚴重的國安問題啊！副部長，這件事情可以不追究嗎？來！請教，不要迴避問題，要不要追究？該不該追究？有沒有追究？說清楚！"],["鍾副部長樹明：後續我們會……"],["黃委員國昌：後續？你們什麼時候發現是假訊息？你們去年10月30號就發現是假訊息，到現在做了什麼處理？除了回函給我以外，做了什麼處理？"],["鍾副部長樹明：第一個部分是我們已經有發布新聞稿來正式澄清。"],["黃委員國昌：是，然後散播假訊息的人法律責任要不要追究？"],["鍾副部長樹明：第二個部分是已經通知廠商來解約，並且列入……"],["黃委員國昌：等一下！等一下！一個一個來啦，不要混淆問題。剛剛我的問題清楚明瞭，這種散播假訊息的媒體，捏造國防部的回應，責任要不要追究？要還是不要？還是從國防部的立場來說，沒關係啦！被人家散播假訊息，國防部也是摸摸鼻子就算了，因為散播假訊息的媒體綠營後臺很硬，國防部也得罪不起，是這樣嗎？來！請副部長說清楚要不要追究責任？要不要？"],["鍾副部長樹明：因為對於假訊息的部分，我們大部分都是發布新聞稿來做澄清，就是爭議訊息的部分。"],["黃委員國昌：這樣就算了喔？哇！那你們國防部對付捏造國防部訊息的軟趴趴！這很嚴重欸！這是國防部向來的立場嗎？這個立場對嗎？散播假訊息要不要追究，還是看情況？如果綠營後臺很硬就不追究，否則的話才追究，這是國防部的立場嗎？來！說清楚喔。"],["鍾副部長樹明：目前對於任何的爭議跟假訊息，不會有任何政黨的立場。"],["黃委員國昌：好，所以要不要追究？還是不追究，算了？是這樣嗎？要不要追究？"],["鍾副部長樹明：因為對於爭議的訊息，我們目前是以新聞稿的方式來……"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛，所以我說國防部軟趴趴嘛。今天很嚴重喔，以後任何人代表國防部散播假訊息，結果國防部唯一的處置就是發布新聞稿，副部長，你覺得這個態度對嗎？要不要重新檢討？"],["鍾副部長樹明：後續我們跟法律司做個研究之後……"],["黃委員國昌：需要多久？要研究多久？去年10月30號，現在已經3月了啦，軟趴趴，昏睡、沉睡到現在，還要再睡多久？需要跟法律司研究多久？這問題很困難嗎？"],["鍾副部長樹明：我們兩週之內跟委員說明。"],["黃委員國昌：不用跟我回復，跟所有外交及國防委員會的委員回復，跟臺灣社會說明啊。我們的國防部在面對這種垃圾假訊息的時候，態度是什麼，是軟趴趴嗎？還是散播假訊息的要關三天？要不要處理？"],["鍾副部長樹明：對假訊息我們一定會馬上的來做澄清跟說明。"],["黃委員國昌：第二個，我上次追聯合再生，聯合再生在我們的國防要塞裝了會嚴重影響、有國安疑慮的資通訊產品，結果我追了半天，你們拖了半天，終於解約了。來！問一下，東西拆完了沒有？終止契約以後，終止契約很簡單嘛，占用我們國防要塞土地的，東西全部給我拆得乾乾淨淨，土地還回來，現在拆的進度如何？"],["鍾副部長樹明：我請軍備局說明。"],["林局長文祥：跟委員報告，去年委員所指導的，我們都已經依規定解除他的契約，目前拆除的部分，該廠商都提起行政訴訟，現在都在法院審理中，我們一定會依照法律相關規定來嚴格執行，以上報告。"],["黃委員國昌：你報告錯了啦，他不可能提行政訴訟。"],["林局長文祥：有，現在都是……"],["黃委員國昌：他提的是行政訴訟嗎？"],["林局長文祥：就是永梁公司跟那個……"],["黃委員國昌：是，所以他提的是行政訴訟？"],["林局長文祥：報告委員，他們都提出契約關係的訴訟。"],["黃委員國昌：我老實跟你講，那個叫民事訴訟。"],["林局長文祥：對，民事訴訟。"],["黃委員國昌：四個假處分法院都准了嗎？"],["林局長文祥：只有准了一個，三個還在訴訟中。"],["黃委員國昌：只准一個，其他三個你為什麼不拆？"],["林局長文祥：還在訴訟中。"],["黃委員國昌：只有一個定暫時狀態的處分，我知道嘛，其他三個都沒有定暫時狀態的處分，可以不拆喔？可以不用拆喔？你們國防部到底是怎麼保護軍事要塞的？軟趴趴成這個樣子啊！一個拿到定暫時狀態的處分我知道，所以我問你其他三個為什麼不用拆？"],["林局長文祥：現在是在訴訟中，公司有提出民事訴訟中。"],["黃委員國昌：我老實跟你講，不要講這種模稜兩可的東西啦，他有聲請定暫時狀態的處分，法院還沒准嘛。"],["林局長文祥：對。"],["黃委員國昌：法院還沒有准，他該不該拆？當然該拆嘛，如果法院還沒有准，他都可以不用拆，那他何必去聲請定暫時狀態的處分？那個定暫時狀態的處分有什麼意義？國防部加油一點好不好？硬起來好不好？還是說因為這個聯合再生有綠營的背景？軟趴趴，一模一樣，國防部看到聯合再生就要跪下去。硬起來好不好，可以嗎？副部長。"],["鍾副部長樹明：跟委員報告，沒有任何政黨的背景跟立場。"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！但是你們做出來「離離落落」，人民看不懂，我也看不懂啊。我們都要保護臺灣的國家安全，這種廠商做這麼惡質的事情，結果國防部軟趴趴成這個樣子！回去檢討，需要多久？一樣兩個禮拜好不好？可以嗎？"],["鍾副部長樹明：我們兩個禮拜之後把辦理的情形跟委員做個說明，後續我們還是要依法辦理。"],["黃委員國昌：當然要依法辦理嘛。"],["主席：好，時間到，謝謝黃國昌委員的發言。好，請回。","接下來黃捷委員、黃捷委員、黃捷委員不在。","賴惠員委員、賴惠員委員、賴惠員委員不在。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","何欣純委員、何欣純委員、何欣純委員不在。","楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","林俊憲委員、林俊憲委員、林俊憲委員不在。","羅明才委員、羅明才委員、羅明才委員不在。","羅智強委員、羅智強委員、羅智強委員不在。","李昆澤委員、李昆澤委員、李昆澤委員不在。","王定宇委員、王定宇委員、王定宇委員不在。","接下來由邱志偉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-2","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳冠廷","林楚茵","陳永康","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","徐巧芯","黃國昌","邱志偉","林憶君","王定宇","羅智強"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長報告「國機國造交機進度及勇鷹高教機失事後檢修情況」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}