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計畫所以我們2040年能夠達到百分之百的電動車但是我們現在存在的問題就是我們的老舊社區所以剛才我看了很多委員 大家都有提出說老舊社區你要怎麼來建置你在新的社區這邊我們營建署就要把關"},{"start":82.678,"end":88.463,"text":"這樣才能落實電動車和電動樁的問題 才能徹底解決但是醫本學來瞭解 大家都擔心的就是老舊社區的電路 絕對符合不了"},{"start":101.81,"end":128.369,"text":"還有呢 你說在本縣的轄區在土城土城 它的鋰電池爆炸造成三個人的死亡這署長都非常清楚所以說你未來你的安全性我們也要第一的考量你新的社區架構絕對沒問題但是你舊的社區你的電路負荷不了的話又會產生一個"},{"start":130.064,"end":135.926,"text":"變成又有一個悲劇發生所以我們都要特別的注意不是說要推動速度要快但是你的安全性你一定要考量到但是本學有一個建議每棟社區都有一個開放空間是不是我們的建構可以在開放空間這邊我們來選擇開放空間的位置建構充電樁我認為這裡我們營建署署長"},{"start":161.065,"end":186.438,"text":"感謝委員 這確實就是我們北京 就是說在這個全部的消防法規 還有安全的設計在地下室如果沒辦法很快完成的時候 還是民眾可以感受到消毒的疑慮的時候今天一個比較好的替代方案就是說 我們在石瓦 我們北面的開放空間先鼓勵它在那裡設 當然也不是說它清拆設就好了"},{"start":187.318,"end":198.702,"text":"這當然我們現在這幾個月跟這個建議所跟消防署的討論就是說我們如果在這個社區的停車機我可以設在我旁邊有相關的灑水設施還是說旁邊有消防栓他第一時間可以趕快降溫這個相關的規範我們如果確定就是要這樣做的時候我們會先透過指引設計一個指引給國管局政府"},{"start":213.688,"end":235.84,"text":"因為現在很多老舊的大樓老舊大樓的地下室大家民眾絕對有疑慮因為很多大樓不管管委會大家都有提出提出還是沒辦法解決因為都太老舊了"},{"start":236.54,"end":258.091,"text":"所以說在開放空間來設置這是應該我們目前內政部應該朝這個方向這樣可以比較保不然你看在我們土城一個鋁電池的爆炸就造成三個人的死亡這種悲劇我們也不想再看到所以我們一定要把關安全性我們一定要把關再來現在就是針對我們客運業"},{"start":265.083,"end":275.906,"text":"客運類我們很多公車都要把它推動電動車但是推動的成效並不好你看光是本席這邊的資料光是新北市就有2500輛然後其中有1600輛逐年要淘汰電動車那累計"},{"start":293.24,"end":295.402,"text":"累計到現在才240輛那我們核定在補助的338輛都陸續要來推動的但是公車業者他們存在一個問題這是我們經濟部還有我們的台電還有我們的能源局大家都要共同來解決客運業他們的問題"},{"start":320.816,"end":341.61,"text":"因為客運列你電動車你所佔的停車比例又更高你一般的柴油車比例20平你電動車要佔的差不多30平然後費用呢光是一個充電樁一個客運列就要花了兩三千萬所以你"},{"start":345.863,"end":361.651,"text":"業者願意花但是我們相關單位配合度又不高不然說台電的電力有問題不然就土地的有問題你知道他們客運業他們的停車場都是用租的租期又短"},{"start":362.546,"end":378.435,"text":"所以我們要徹底來解決你要推動電動車你起碼我們中央的配套一定要先把它做好你這樣才能推動的比較順利那不然業者他們想你政府又不配合然後又要要求我台灣電動車那這樣"},{"start":381.502,"end":402.558,"text":"就不成比例啊這就是我們中央單位你一定要扛起這個肩膀啊我們要怎樣來扶植他那費用又是他們出的然後你一些行政程序我們都是要幫忙來解決問題啊那是不是我請交通部交通部今天有來吧"},{"start":407.181,"end":428.856,"text":"我們交通部目標是在2031年要把我們的市區公車11700輛全面電動化那針對客運業者在貪換過程中大概除了車輛轉換之外很在乎就是有關於充電環境在廠商內充電設施的這件事情那這部分我們在從推動這個電動公車的過程中我們就一直跟經濟部有在合作然後來協助地方政府"},{"start":429.4,"end":455.052,"text":"的客運業者然後來解決這個設置充電站的問題目前我們有有一個三級的機制就是包含台電公司會跟地方政府然後來就客運業者提出來有需要生設充電站的這個部分的話都會盡力來做協助而據我的瞭解台電公司大概陸陸續續大概這幾年有九十二個九十幾個案子大概都已經陸陸續續都已經有協助地方政府的客運業者排除設置充電站這個問題以上根本報告好"},{"start":458.973,"end":473.465,"text":"那因為我為什麼提出這個因為公車早期我們都知道公車它的排放排放量都很大那你要是整個都市裡面都推動電動車都能可以解決這個污染的問題"},{"start":474.566,"end":497.335,"text":"所以你一定要站在我們業者的本身來做協助那這樣他們才願意來來汰換不然你這腳步應該還是沒辦法推動很順利那再來我說他們的停車場租期又短那又短他們要設立又要投資那麼多錢那是不是我們中央"},{"start":498.228,"end":506.279,"text":"找國產署大家來研究由我們國產署提供土地因為是大眾的運輸啊這樣你才能解決他們的問題這樣推動的速度也才會快"},{"start":515.256,"end":537.509,"text":"跟委員報告現在這個客運業者的停車場的依照我們汽車運輸業管理規則都有相關的一些要求啦那至於在客運業者取得這個充電廠站的土地上面有沒有需要跟其他部會包含國產署這邊聯繫說讓他們在取得土地上面然後可以來生設充電站那邊的部分的話有更方便或怎麼樣的話我們會依照委員的建議我們會再找相關單位來做研議以上好"},{"start":538.157,"end":550.345,"text":"我看這就由我們交通部來做主導嘛你找相關單位來做研究好不好研究報告你來通知給本席知道好不好好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":779,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（11時13分）召委、與會同仁。我請我們內政部的董次長。"],["主席：董次長有請。"],["吳委員琪銘：還有營建署的署長。"],["主席：吳署長，謝謝。"],["吳委員琪銘：消防署的署長。"],["主席：蕭署長。"],["董次長建宏：委員好。"],["吳委員琪銘：各位好。今天我們所討論的，針對我們的充電樁的問題，充電樁的問題現在已經也在推動，目前是整個趨勢，包括全球有一千七百多萬輛，其中5輛就有1輛是電動車，所以在國發會2050年淨零排放這個計畫，我們2040年能夠達到百分之百的電動車，但是我們現在存在的問題，就是我們的老舊社區，剛才我看了很多委員都有提出老舊社區要怎麼來建置，在新的社區這邊，營建署就要把關，這樣電動車跟電動樁的問題才能澈底解決，但是以本席的了解，你說大家都擔心的就是老舊社區的電路絕對負荷不了，還有本席轄區土城的鋰電池爆炸造成3個人的死亡，這署長都非常清楚。未來安全性也要第一考量，新的社區建構絕對沒問題，但是舊社區的電路負荷不了的話，又會變成一個悲劇發生，所以這個我們都要特別的注意，不是說推動速度要快，但是安全性你一定要考量到。","本席有一個建議，每棟社區都有一個開放空間，是不是建構在開放空間這邊，我們來想出開放空間的位置建構充電樁？來，我們營建署署長。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員，這確實就是我們目前……依全部的消防法規還有安全的設計，在地下室如果沒辦法很快完成的時候，還是讓民眾可以覺得消除他的疑慮的時候，一個替代的方案就是在室外、平面的開放空間，先鼓勵在那邊設。當然也不是隨便設就好了，我們現在這幾個月跟建研所跟消防署的討論，如果在室外的停車格可以設的時候，旁邊有相關的灑水設施，或是旁邊有消防栓，第一時間可以比較快降溫。這些相關的規範，我們如果確定就是要這樣做的時候，我們會先設計一個指引，讓各縣市政府可以在審查的時候，可以特別准他在室外平面的開放空間再來設。"],["吳委員琪銘：因為現在很多老舊的大樓，老舊大樓若要把它放在地下室，民眾絕對有疑慮，因為很多大樓，不管管委會大家都有提出，還是沒辦法解決，因為都太老舊了，所以說在開放空間來設置，內政部應該朝這個方向，這樣才能夠確保安全，不然你看在我們土城，1個鋰電池的爆炸就造成3個人死亡。這種悲劇我們也不想再看到，所以一定要把關安全性。","再來，針對我們客運業很多公車都要推動電動車，但是推動的成效並不好，光是本席這邊的資料，光是新北市就有2,500輛，其中有1,600輛逐年要淘汰換成電動車，累計到現在才240輛，我們核定補助338輛，都陸陸續要來推動，但是公車業者他們存在一個問題，這是經濟部、台電、能源局，大家都要共同來解決客運業的問題，因為客運業電動車所占的停車比例又更高，一般的柴油車比例20坪，電動車要占的差不多三十坪，然後費用光是一個充電樁，客運業就要花了兩、三千萬。業者願意花，但是相關單位配合度又不高，不然說台電的電力有問題、不然就土地有問題，你知道客運業的停車場都是用租的，租期又短，所以我們要澈底來解決，要推動電動車，起碼中央的配套一定要先把它做好，這樣才能推動得比較順利，不然業者想，政府又不配合，然後又要求我汰換電動車，這樣就不成比例……這就是我們中央單位，你一定要有這個肩膀扛起來啊！我們要怎樣來扶植他，那費用又是他們出的，然後你一些行政程序都是要來幫忙解決問題啊！是不是我請交通部？交通部今天有來吧？"],["趙專門委員晉緯：跟委員報告，我們交通部目標是在2030年要把市區公車1萬1,700輛全面電動化。針對客運業者在汰換過程中，除了車輛轉換之外，很在乎的就是有關於充電環境，在場站內充電設施的這件事情。這個部分我們在推動電動公車的過程中，一直有跟經濟部在合作，然後來協助地方政府的客運業者解決設置充電站的問題。","目前我們有一個3級的機制，包含台電公司會跟地方政府就客運業者提出有需要申設充電站的部分，都會盡力協助。據我瞭解，台電公司這幾年有九十幾個案子已經陸陸續續在協助地方政府的客運業者，排除設置充電站的問題，以上跟委員報告。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，我為什麼會提出這個呢？因為公車早期我們都知道，公車的排放量很大，要是整個都市裡面都推動電動車就可以解決這個污染的問題，所以你一定要站在我們業者本身來協助，這樣他們才願意汰換啊！不然你這個腳步應該還是沒辦法推動得很順利。","再來，他們的停車場租期又短，他們要設立又要投資那麼多錢，是不是我們中央找國產署大家來研究，由國產署提供土地？因為是大眾的運輸啊！這樣你才能解決他們的問題，推動的速度也才會快。"],["趙專門委員晉緯：現在客運業者的停車場依照我們汽車運輸業管理規則都有相關的一些要求啦！至於在客運業者取得充電場站的土地上面，有沒有需要與其他部會包含國產署這邊來聯繫，讓他們在取得土地上面申設充電站的部分能夠更方便或怎麼樣的話，我們會依照委員的建議，再找相關單位研議，以上。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，我看這個就由交通部主導，你找相關單位研究，好不好？研究報告給本席知道，好不好？好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳琪銘委員，我想吳委員強調的是交通部的公車場站規則很多啦！但是資源很少，希望交通部多幫忙，改善大眾運輸的品質。","接下來請洪孟楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":82,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-2","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","麥玉珍","許宇甄","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","郭昱晴","吳琪銘","洪孟楷","林楚茵","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","黃健豪","李坤城","王鴻薇","邱志偉","張啓楷","蔡易餘","葉元之","高金素梅","丁學忠","翁曉玲","王義川"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部部長劉世芳、經濟部、交通部、金融監督管理委員會、台灣電力股份有限公司就「公\n寓大廈裝設電動車輛充電裝置之相關法令、國家標準、建築設計、管理維護、火災預防措施及相\n關保險類別與要保人之認定」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}