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這個就是說標準定案是 那如果沒有符合標準會造成什麼狀況我們是在2024年的奇怪 我這麼簡單的問題你都可以繞來繞去現在我的問題很明確我們現在是用獎勵所以你還是沒有回答我的問題嗎是有效果的你現在定一個標準嘛你現在就定一個標準嘛我的問題是沒有符合這個標準的法律效果是什麼"},{"start":282.54,"end":288.782,"text":"那你就直接回答沒有法律效果就好了嘛這麼簡單的問題寫來寫去這麼簡單的問題繞來繞去就是沒有法律效果嘛如果用獎勵的方式會有用的話現在的情況會這樣嗎當初那個清德是說用獎勵的方式嗎"},{"start":309.022,"end":335.479,"text":"這樣對嗎?選前騙票?選後跳票?這樣對嗎?這個就是基層護理同仁他們的心聲這個就是基層護理同仁的心聲這個我們一定努力但是這個要跟醫院來配合就是也要聽聽醫院看看他能不能做得到做不到所以嘛這就是等到2024年等到票投完了以後薛瑞元才講大實話嘛"},{"start":337.298,"end":361.44,"text":"沒有辦法入法沒有時程選前一套選後一套對比的這麼清楚莫此為勝這為什麼大家不滿理由就是這個去年的時候五一勞動節集成的醫護就出來喊沒有達標也沒有罰則這是為什麼去年在問法委員會問這題"},{"start":363.633,"end":385.901,"text":"在問完委員會問這題問完了以後然後呢然後就沒有然後了嘛繼續賴題啊就像卓榮泰講的啊我們是用獎勵的方式啊看了令人瞠目結舌啊我很希望2023年的時候賴清德總統啊是誠實的告訴全國人民啊我打算用獎勵的方式啊"},{"start":387.112,"end":414.817,"text":"來處理三班互併比的問題啊而不是在選前的時候講一套選後的時候跳票跳票完了推一個行政院院長出來厚著臉皮講我是用獎勵的方式喔報告委員因為時間還沒到啦我們會盡量來努力OK好沒關係有一件事情是時間到了我去年質詢就跟你講啊說專科護理師沒有拿到"},{"start":415.916,"end":437.522,"text":"然後你說你一定會按照衛福部的規定去發放有嗎今年一月開始會發沒有啦今年一月是今年一月的事情啊去年該給人家的到現在都沒給啊我去年就是在問去年該給沒給的啊該給沒給的啊藉著清償期還不履行限於幾副職員然後你跟我說今年會給"},{"start":439.864,"end":466.033,"text":"去年有啊 去年我們二七是給一般急性病房的沒有 所以我就要你先停一下好不好我如果今天沒有得到護理師的陳情我今天會傻傻的站在這邊質詢喔你們跟我說會做 那我就一定會去追蹤嘛我追蹤出來的結果就沒有嘛所以才會陳情到我這邊來嘛現實上是什麼 現實上就沒領到啊"},{"start":467.882,"end":485.721,"text":"這每一家醫院的護理師我全部都去check過啦部長 質詢的時間到了這涉及到你的承諾這也到齊了 這不是還沒到齊的事情啊回去清查 一個禮拜以後給我書面回覆好不好好的 可以齁好 謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1041,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時47分）主席，可以了嗎？好像耽誤時間的不是我吧！前面主席在主持議事的時候，我們都尊重嘛，還有委員質詢了快半個小時你沒制止，我們靜靜的在等，一句話都沒有，非常尊重主席對議事的處理，希望這個基本的文明跟秩序，在衛環委員會可以繼續貫徹。來，請部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好。基層護理同仁的福利跟他們的心聲，向來是我長期關注的事情，上會期針對這件事情，我也有幫基層的護理師向部長請命，部長也做了一些承諾，這個我們等一下再講，現在大家更關心的事情是，護理人員近十年離職率及空缺率不斷升高，部長看起來好像也蠻認真的，有打電話去各個醫院詢問目前護理師的待遇如何，顯然部長應該也是肯認在整個基本面上，勞動環境是護理師願不願意繼續留在工作崗位上的一個最重要原因，我這樣說沒有錯吧？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛？"],["邱部長泰源：是非常重要的原因。"],["黃委員國昌：好，非常重要的原因，那我們就來看，賴清德總統選總統時說護病比要入法，他那個時候講的稍微抽象一點，表示兩年或者在他任內。部長，賴清德總統的政治承諾會不會跳票？"],["邱部長泰源：跟委員報告，我們一定努力，目前我們是先用獎勵方式，獎勵的比例現在……"],["黃委員國昌：奇怪！怎麼部長現在講的，跟賴清德當初提出來的競選政見差這麼多？"],["邱部長泰源：醫學中心……"],["黃委員國昌：部長，不好意思，如果要做其他的政治宣言，你去開記者會，這裡的詢答就是針對問題回答，我的問題非常明確……"],["邱部長泰源：好，我想我們會一直溝通，特別是跟醫院，因為要充實護理人員……"],["黃委員國昌：不是啦！請你聽我的問題回答，好嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：好。"],["黃委員國昌：賴清德講的這個話，是兩年或其任內護病比入法，這個政治承諾會不會跳票？"],["邱部長泰源：我想他後面特別有提到兩年內跟任內的時限，我們會儘量來完成。"],["黃委員國昌：會儘量來完成？那跳票誰要負責？是你的責任，還是賴清德的責任？"],["邱部長泰源：那就是我工作不力。"],["黃委員國昌：是你工作不力？你很有肩膀，自己把它扛起來，但我也幫你講一句話，開這個支票的是賴清德，當初這個支票開出來以後，站在你旁邊的這位司長非常會打蛇隨棍上，哇！配合當初副總統競選總統的政見，趕快在2023年11月20號出來表示，他的逐字是這樣講的：最快今年年底行政程序決定出最終版本。他發話的時間是2023年11月20號，表示最快該年年底就會有最終版本，然後最快有望在明年上路，也就是2024年上路，但顯然到現在是沒有上路，是不是跳票了？"],["蔡司長淑鳳：我補充一下，這個應該是三班護病比的標準。"],["黃委員國昌：三班護病比的標準？"],["蔡司長淑鳳：不是入法、不是入法，這是三班護病比的標準。"],["黃委員國昌：現在如果沒有符合這個標準……"],["蔡司長淑鳳：現在已經上路啦！"],["黃委員國昌：對，現在沒有符合這個標準的話，會有什麼狀況？"],["蔡司長淑鳳：不是，這個就是說標準定案，我們是……"],["黃委員國昌：如果沒有符合標準，會造成什麼狀況？"],["蔡司長淑鳳：我們是在2024年的……"],["黃委員國昌：奇怪，我這麼簡單的問題，你都可以繞來繞去，現在我的問題很明確……"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我們現在是用獎勵，已經……"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛！所以你還是沒有回答我的問題……"],["邱部長泰源：而且是有效果的、是有效果的。"],["黃委員國昌：你現在定一個標準……"],["邱部長泰源：我們現在沒有罰……"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛！你現在就定一個標準，我的問題是，沒有符合這個標準的法律效果是什麼？"],["蔡司長淑鳳：沒有法律效果。"],["黃委員國昌：那你就直接回答沒有法律效果就好了嘛！這麼簡單的問題，繞來繞去！"],["邱部長泰源：我們有獎勵。"],["黃委員國昌：這麼簡單的問題，繞來繞去，就是沒有法律效果嘛！如果獎勵的方式有用的話，現在的情況會是這樣嗎？當初賴清德是說用獎勵的方式嗎？這樣對嗎？選前騙票，選後跳票，這樣對嗎？這個就是基層護理同仁的心聲啊！這個就是基層護理同仁的心聲！"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，這個我們一定努力，但是這要跟醫院配合，也要聽聽看醫院能不能做得到。"],["黃委員國昌：所以就是等到2024年、等到票投完了以後，薛瑞元才講大實話：沒有辦法，入法沒有時程。選前一套，選後一套，對比得這麼清楚，莫此為甚啊！為什麼大家不滿？理由就是這個嘛！去年五一勞動節，基層醫護就出來喊說：沒有達標也沒有罰則。這就是為什麼去年我在衛環委員會問這題嘛！在衛環委員會問了這題以後，然後呢？然後就沒有然後了嘛！繼續賴皮啊！就像卓榮泰講的：我們是用獎勵的方式。看得令人瞠目結舌！我很希望2023年賴清德總統是誠實的告訴全國人民，打算用獎勵的方式來處理三班護病比的問題，而不是在選前講一套，選後跳票；跳票完了，推一個行政院院長出來厚著臉皮講：我是用獎勵的方式！"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，因為時間還沒到，我們會儘量來努力。"],["黃委員國昌：OK，沒關係，但有一件事情是時間到了，這我去年質詢時就跟你講了，專科護理師沒有拿到津貼，然後你說你一定會按照衛福部的規定發放，有嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：今年1月開始會發放。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有啦！今年1月是今年1月的事情，去年該給人家的，到現在都沒給啊！我去年就是問去年該給而沒給的啊！該給沒給的，屆了清償期還不履行，現已給付遲延，然後你跟我說今年會給？"],["蔡司長淑鳳：去年有啊！去年27億是給一般急性病房，17億是給專科……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有，你先停一下，好不好？今天如果我沒有得到護理師的陳情，會傻傻的站在這邊質詢？你們跟我說會做，我就一定會去追蹤，但我追蹤出來的結果就沒有嘛！所以才會陳情到我這邊來，現實上是什麼？現實上就是沒領到啊！每一家醫院的護理師我全部都去check過了。部長，我的質詢時間到了，這涉及到你的承諾，也已經到期了，這不是還沒到期的事情，回去清查，一個禮拜後給我書面回復，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：好的。"],["黃委員國昌：可以喔？"],["邱部長泰源：我們再清查，一定。"],["黃委員國昌：好。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員。","接續請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","黃秀芳","王正旭","林淑芬","羅智強","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","洪孟楷","張啓楷","劉建國","陳培瑜","楊曜","王義川"],"page_start":227,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長就「有關全國急重症醫療量能」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}