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三一開當天,院長能不能順利上台,這是一個變數。歷年來在黨就會有一些至少不會讓當天能夠準時上台。但我期待大家講好的就當天順利上台,這個時間才有控制。"},{"start":1881.104,"end":1907.69,"text":"遠距過去孫中央院長當選院長的時候曾經為了要道歉以火還有開放美中的問題他十二次沒有辦法上台那一次大家還記得嗎?結果造成最後一次的時候是國民黨丟內臟在那裡等著李鑫什麼都等造成嚴重的衝突"},{"start":1908.47,"end":1921.204,"text":"能夠勉強排除障礙作施政報告。」這個是總共十二次。十二次多久時間呢?至少六個禮拜。"},{"start":1926.489,"end":1939.941,"text":"五、五二、禮拜五沒有,禮拜二再來。所以這些變數是存在的。但是要講這些的時候,我們今天大家黨還天堂說兩話。也就是說濟舊、濟舊十敗嘛,總之行。"},{"start":1945.966,"end":1967.934,"text":"有十次．能夠現在在黨所提出．一個是食安．一個是能力政策．這樣十二次．十二次往回推的話．大概在七月中旬左右．那等下看日理就知道了．那再來就是說．責任不能順利上臺．"},{"start":1970.056,"end":1977.489,"text":"單個像上次一樣單個兩個月一個月那這個都對於我們我們要"},{"start":1979.181,"end":1986.023,"text":"委員會作成決議：於新委員會作成決議．於新委員會作成決議．於新委員會作成決議．於新委員會作成決議．於新委員會作成決議．於新委員會作成決議．於新委員會作成決議．於新委員會作成決議．於新委員會作成決議．"},{"start":2003.53,"end":2010.738,"text":"二、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告及本院配合延會相關事宜。」相關事宜。"},{"start":2015.53,"end":2033.679,"text":"所謂的統一選行時。NCC在選舉委員會被擋。什麼時候可以審?未定之天。但是呢,可以永遠不審嗎?永遠不審的話,他們就繼續坐在那個位置。這是第一個。統一選行的時候,名單已經送進來了。"},{"start":2036.841,"end":2059.144,"text":"第二個就是說五月底今天是五一六再過半個月的時間總統必須把考試院院長、副院長以及考試委員因為中央秘書長也做過考委這個一定要送進來先使同意權在五月底以前送進來"},{"start":2060.245,"end":2066.347,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於"},{"start":2083.633,"end":2097.81,"text":"那假如說考試院院長、副院長以及考委的行駛從以前在8月底前完成那我們可能在什麼時候來行駛?這個都是對於我們延會多久有一些變數"},{"start":2099.355,"end":2118.96,"text":"或是說這個另外再召開一個單獨的臨時會來處理也可以。當然大家要很清楚的。但是發案以前已經完成。這個是先人體制的問題,我們也沒有不可能會迴避。但是從以前是我們的潛力。我們可以自動放棄嗎?我們可能必須斟酌。"},{"start":2126.659,"end":2152.315,"text":"當然另外有一個七月底會送進來市委院長、副院長以及五個大法官這要做宣判的當然那個比較有時間性他在七月底前一定要送進來當然三個月以前換言之就是說十月底前要審查環境那可能可以消費區可以以後積極來安排"},{"start":2153.476,"end":2182.9,"text":"或是要在這一次必其功與役役一起處理。請各位黨兵以及院長來討論、來斟酌。這幾個變數都是要考慮。否則的話,我們今天只講一個頭尾在什麼地方,不知道。就是所謂延會要延到什麼時候。那是不具任何意義的。謝謝民進黨柯總召發言。接下來我們請問一下還有其他黨人要發言。"},{"start":2184.69,"end":2189.839,"text":"那黃珊珊幹事長請好現在主席我想那個剛剛欸好這樣聽得到"},{"start":2198.849,"end":2203.312,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":2222.245,"end":2226.066,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於"},{"start":2251.951,"end":2277.617,"text":"謝謝黃珊珊幹事長的發言。接下來我們請國民黨副坤吉總召請發言。謝謝院長。我想今天大家的協商本來就是我們盡可能平和理性來處理完成。所以難得看到柯總召今天能夠字正腔圓的把院長所提及的事情我們一樣一樣來仔細討論。"},{"start":2279.403,"end":2296.491,"text":"那剛剛院長已經裁示了五月十三號由新任行政院長五月三十一號新任卓榮泰卓院長上臺做施政報告以這個來推算目前大概有兩個至少兩個以上的專報"},{"start":2299.173,"end":2313.917,"text":"因為這個電業的問題是全國國人都在擔心的問題。這個國家的政策如果再不調整的話這個是很麻煩的。這個全民都要面對破產的危機。那食安的問題更是刻不容緩。所以這兩個部分應該都至少兩個以上的專報"},{"start":2321.759,"end":2342.732,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":2344.096,"end":2368.565,"text":"所以我們現在也回應一下啦,剛剛民眾黨,這個黃珍珊幹事長所提的,我們可能,如果民眾黨也希望在七月中,七月中能夠明確的把時間定出來的話,那我們現在國民黨是不是建議啊,我們暫定七月十六號,延會到七月十六號,"},{"start":2370.572,"end":2390.55,"text":"任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院院長施政方針報告前：於"},{"start":2393.752,"end":2399.515,"text":"任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前"},{"start":2416.301,"end":2430.251,"text":"任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前："},{"start":2444.941,"end":2458.818,"text":"那至於剛剛柯總召所提到．不管是這個其他人事權的部分．我想也回應一下民眾黨各位有提到．我們那可以開臨時會．臨時會來處理好不好．是不是可以這樣子．請院長採審．好再請柯總召"},{"start":2461.943,"end":2487.03,"text":"我剛才出去接個電話齁那我希望我沒有回周瑜嘛同以前林氏輝在講是不是這樣嘛齁那副總裁也是同以前林氏輝在講齁那暫定七月十六齁當然大家訂七月十六就七月十六齁沒有所謂暫定啦齁因為假如總之你沒有結束的話那你就等於消費期林氏輝再來齁是不是這樣就沒有了嘛齁啊所以"},{"start":2487.89,"end":2515.863,"text":"我現在頭尾定了齁,我們就努力去把它完成。頭尾前沒關係,可以臨時會來處理,都可以談。好,那這樣我們很高興大家都已經回到,都已經計較了。所以剛才算過差不多十倍嘛,十次,總之一輪十次。十次差不多到什麼時候?十次差不多到七月五號,七月五號。"},{"start":2519.522,"end":2524.987,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告。"},{"start":2535.56,"end":2564.273,"text":"副總統,你剛才是幾號?十六號?十六號,大家不要亂說,十六號,我們現在就針對這個事情。好,沒有問題。好,現在十倍,十次嘛。十次差不多的弱點就是在七五號。那我們一流三次嘛。一流三次嘛。一流三次沒有關係,就是食安啦,以及能源政策,還有其他,可能就一流一次嘛。"},{"start":2571.629,"end":2597.866,"text":"一流三次嘛。一流三次嘛。我們都OK。大家交控這樣走,交聘這樣走就好。我們希望一個新的國會是一個很正式、隆重的開始。而且大家去對新的內閣,你去舉任何挑戰,我們都...這個是好事。那是一流一次嘛。那就不管怎麼樣,到時候不要再佔領主義才不能上去,有兩三次就整個報銷了。就這樣OK。"},{"start":2603.159,"end":2623.588,"text":"呃...吳世耀、蘇議長、幹事長你有...要看...孟楷蘇議長要補充嗎?請...這個可以談,現在都可以表達意見,沒問題,馬上就定下來,我們就定下來。順便講,我這順著大家的事講OK就好。我都說了,講好就好。這個就時間算一算就好了。對。對,7月16?"},{"start":2632.745,"end":2641.474,"text":"院長,你怎麼找到找到找到找到找到找到找到找到找到找到找到找到找到找到"},{"start":2658.217,"end":2658.817,"text":"那這樣國外外交再去安排時間嗎?"},{"start":2690.145,"end":2696.67,"text":"等一下,你們有一些行程,你們商量一下。你們要國會外交,要到大陸去什麼都沒有關係,已經停起來,已經商量一下。我們休息三分鐘。"},{"start":2850.756,"end":2870.632,"text":"各位黨團幹部,現在我們繼續開會。幾位黨團幹部都很踴躍發言,也表達了自己的寶貴意見。我們這一次院會的時間,如果遵循大家共同的意見之後,我們就訂休會時間,訂在七月十六號。好不好?好。"},{"start":2872.406,"end":2883.383,"text":"如果訂下來的話我就特別我把決定事項我口述一遍請大家來共同一起聆聽一下"},{"start":2884.91,"end":2905.794,"text":"決定事項：各黨團同意於五月三十一號星期五邀請新任行政院院長率同各部會首長列席進行施政方針報告並備質詢。報告後隨即進行政黨質詢。當日質詢人數由國民黨黨團推派三位,民進黨黨團推派三位,台灣民眾黨黨團推派一位進行。質詢順序一,民進黨黨團,國民黨黨團,"},{"start":2913.775,"end":2917.45,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團之順序輪流交叉方式進行。」"},{"start":2919.44,"end":2948.601,"text":"施政方針個人諮詢之登記請於五月二十四日星期五起至六月七日星期五止辦理有關諮詢期間之順序及人數均依例授權議事處辦理當次會議不處理臨時提案二、本次第一會期延至一百一十三年七月十六號星期二至"},{"start":2950.018,"end":2974.321,"text":"請問各位黨團幹部有沒有寶貴意見?院長,對不起請柯總召請議五月二十四日禮拜五起至六月七日禮拜五之"},{"start":2976.209,"end":2976.83,"text":"這個是兩個禮拜,辦理個人資訊。"},{"start":2991.414,"end":3009.014,"text":"因為剛開始的時候我們會先進行政黨諮詢。對。政黨諮詢的第一天是五月三十一日。對。三、三、一。然後之後就巡禮進行政黨諮詢的第二天。就第二個工作天的禮拜二嘛。那以前的經驗政黨諮詢可能需要四到五個工作日。"},{"start":3009.514,"end":3034.044,"text":"然後接下來就會個人諮詢,那我們登記的截止日是之前從五月二十四開始登記,因為登記到你五三一之後的這個六月七日,就是按照內政這樣來諮詢。總諮詢還是一整天可以去安排個人諮詢嘛,對不對,大家要登記嘛,到六月七號嘛,那截止,我們還在,那我請問一下總諮詢,我們政黨諮詢差不多要幾天?"},{"start":3040.351,"end":3068.563,"text":"過去經驗是四到五個工作日所以你五、三、一開始的話算出來就是大概在六月在那個地方結束因為我們前面登記黨就是內政組就會先所以會到差不多六月十四號"},{"start":3070.438,"end":3096.104,"text":"或是六月十一號才會政黨諮詢結束,才會進入個人諮詢。啊你個人諮詢在六月七號,那時候還在政黨諮詢啊。所以你來得及啊。對,來得及啊。六月七號截止來得及啊。正常的話,差不多四個、四次啊。四百、兩千百嘛。那個再洗啦。對不對?好,那...可以啊。這個..."},{"start":3099.121,"end":3101.706,"text":"中國國民黨黨團提議：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前。"},{"start":3216.872,"end":3228.063,"text":"在這邊跟黨團幹部報告一下,我要更正一下上一次開超級協商,我講楊瓊英當過國大代表,經查沒有。是陳雪生跟羅明才特別在這裡更正一下。"},{"start":3230.306,"end":3250.468,"text":"還有賴世寶,對我講過賴世寶,對還有邱益穎李昆澤,對所以特別,他現在不在院裡面。要更正一下,好。"},{"start":3251.918,"end":3266.878,"text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部。現在我們進入討論事項第二案。那我們繼續研商國民黨黨團建請院會作成決議．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．邀請賴清德總統至立法院進行國情報告．請公決案。國民黨黨團提議。三、"},{"start":3272.823,"end":3295.799,"text":"任行政院長施政方針報告前．邀請賴清德總統至立法院進行國情報告．並依法回應立法委員所提出問題．請公決案相關事宜。經本院第一會席．第十三次會議決議。現在這兩案,上一次朝野協商大概時間、政黨分配都已經差不多討論完畢。"},{"start":3300.001,"end":3314.709,"text":"答覆、詢答方式．那請各位黨團幹部就這個方．就這個詢答方式．表出具體的意見。謝謝。請提案委員再次說明,好嗎?好,那麼我們請提案委員．我們國民黨團請副總召再次說明。因應這個"},{"start":3324,"end":3344.459,"text":"從過去國民大會的行政慣例,總統每一年都會到國民大會來做相關的國情報告,並被不了解的地方所提出的問題來回答,讓整個國家的運作能夠"},{"start":3346.072,"end":3355.299,"text":"各個層面讓國人能夠更加的瞭解,也讓這些代表民意的這些國大代表能夠一些建言能夠讓總統聽到。」"},{"start":3357.338,"end":3379.295,"text":"那自從這個國民大會並入這個正式結束以後現在我們單一國會就是在立法院而總統到國會來做國情報告也相對的有延宕了一段時間都沒有正式來進行所以國民黨是很誠懇的希望面對"},{"start":3380.68,"end":3402.51,"text":"二、二零二四的新民意所成立的國會．希望賴清德總統當選人能夠在五二零就職以後能夠優先的來到立法院來做國情報告並被相關這些問題也能為大家事宜解惑。"},{"start":3406.152,"end":3429.287,"text":"這個過程當中我們要再三表達我們是國民黨是有高度的善意也希望有國會的尊嚴有一定的格局本黨一再強調未來總統在大選前就一再表示如果他有機會當選中華民國總統的話他很希望到立法院來做國情的報告"},{"start":3430.663,"end":3445.437,"text":"那我想今天既然賴總統有這個高度的意願那我們也很願意成就這個事情讓賴總統能夠在歷史能夠有一個非常清楚的高度跟定位"},{"start":3446.558,"end":3471.006,"text":"來到國會．國民黨很願意來搭橋．也希望這個事能夠圓滿來完成．至於什麼樣的安排跟形式．我們沒有強烈的去要求．"},{"start":3473.359,"end":3497.931,"text":"但是最基本我們想賴總統回到這個立法院來是真的是回娘家這是第一第二我們過去也看到這李登輝總統在這個國民大會的時候在大家提案的過程當中說明的過程當中表示意見的過程當中"},{"start":3500.419,"end":3524.226,"text":"這個李登輝前副總統就常常會在主動要求跟主席要求他現在就想要回答所以有的時候是不是我們不要在這裡太過太過的拘泥要什麼樣的一個形式因為畢竟賴總統來自於立法院也當過台南市的市長也當過行政院的院長"},{"start":3526.384,"end":3544.242,"text":"對於我相信對於這個民意代表所提出來的相關的問題我想他來侃侃而談都不是什麼太大的問題而且來到立法院國民黨絕對以禮相待我們非常清楚表達我們也希望共同來寫歷史這高度是留給賴清德總統我們國民黨"},{"start":3547.267,"end":3563.952,"text":"跟其他政黨的委員是一百一十三分之一共同來見證而已。」所以我們要再三強調國民黨一再釋出高度的善意我們也希望說今天有一個明確的對國內有一個明確的一個答覆。謝謝國民黨團副坤吉總召的說明接下來我們請台灣民眾黨說明"},{"start":3566.808,"end":3582.06,"text":"謝謝主席。我想這個台灣民眾黨的案子非常的清楚,也就是說希望能夠邀請賴清德總統到立法院進行國情報告,然後依法回應立法委員提出的問題。那現行法還沒有修正之前,立法院"},{"start":3582.62,"end":3604.273,"text":"立法院的職權行事法規定的很清楚,就是我們希望說立法委員在國情報告完畢後的舊報告不明確處提出問題。那發言的時間順序都已經按照上一次的協商已經有做出決定了。那現在只是說舊委員發言有一條叫做經總統同意時的綜合在座補充報告。"},{"start":3604.913,"end":3629.782,"text":"也就是說我相信其實重點是總統同不同意什麼樣的方式那方式的部分我認為目前為止不管是上一次也好或這次也好其實大家都希望說因為目前是協商出二十位的委員那如果二十位委員一次同問同答這樣子對總統來說也是很大的負擔而且對相關的問題能不能夠以一個努力的清楚的回應我覺得也會是個困難"},{"start":3630.462,"end":3631.983,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告及本院配合延會相關事宜。」相關事宜。"},{"start":3651.276,"end":3671.663,"text":"問題上面能夠有個共識：我覺得這次是中華民國民主史上很重要的一次的總統有史以來第一次到立法院來做國情報告那各黨團也都高度的共識我覺得這是一件好事所以民眾黨的立場是希望說同問同答只是一個形式那對總統來說我也相信他同意"},{"start":3673.443,"end":3688.468,"text":"會來國情報告的時候：我也相信他願意同意回應每一個委員的問題。」這個我也認為說我們也不用自己先預設總統會不會同意。那以上我們希望說能夠盡快把這個事情做成決定那這也是中華民國民主史上很重要的一頁。謝謝。"},{"start":3690.489,"end":3709.743,"text":"謝謝黃珊珊幹事長的發言。我再把上一次我們抄一些相關於總統國情報告達成共識的三點,快速念一遍。第一個,發言時間每位委員限時六分鐘。第二個,發言次數,國民黨九位,民眾黨九位,台灣民眾黨兩位。第三,發言的次序是民眾黨第一,"},{"start":3710.443,"end":3720.715,"text":"第二次序是民進黨．第三是國民黨．那尋答的方式．剛才國民黨黨團．以及台灣民眾黨團．的代表都講得非常的清楚。接下來請民進黨黨團吳思堯幹事長請。"},{"start":3726.825,"end":3741.611,"text":"謝謝院長。我想經過我們週一的大家共同的協商交換意見,那回去都是讓大家好好再重新思考檢視條文所賦予的意義,還有參著各黨代表所發言背後的爭議。"},{"start":3743.052,"end":3763.369,"text":"那我自己也花了時間就在這幾天我特別又回去把美國最近的一次總統的國情報告是二零二四三月八號拜登總統的國情報告他的國情咨文我從頭又看了一次那美國總統制的狀況是他報告完之後全場起立鼓掌然後總統就離席"},{"start":3764.21,"end":3784.31,"text":"那我也回頭去看台灣1997修憲之後採取的半總統制、雙首長制的法國憲政的原理。我也去看了法國國情咨文報告。我看的是2017年7月3號馬克宏的國情咨文。那他也是報告完之後,那全場大家起立鼓掌,然後他離開。"},{"start":3785.492,"end":3797.905,"text":"但在法國的憲法十八條第二項是有說國會議員是可以在總統國情咨文結束之後進行辯論的但是為了要去慣行憲法所賦予的雙手掌制下的總統他並不對國會負責"},{"start":3800.367,"end":3824.694,"text":"所以即使國會議員要進行辯論或是表決辯論都必須在總統立場不在場為之所以我特別再把法國跟美國的制度重新再透過我不斷的再去檢視那也再次強化我自己對於條文的理解那首先我想要回應一下其實剛剛不管是副總召也好或是黃珊珊副總召所說的"},{"start":3825.814,"end":3838.728,"text":"其實當然我們都感受到在野黨的善意大家願意做這個事情在好好的溝通這是搭建起一個很好的憲政慣例的契機但是我是有一點這個思維上先跟大家分享一下有時候我們在討論的是憲政層次的問題所以"},{"start":3842.079,"end":3856.902,"text":"大家應當要試著去跳脫因人設置的這種思維。」我所謂因人設置是因為大家都感受到不管是感受到賴清德個人他表達他願意來這是他的friendly"},{"start":3857.583,"end":3876.241,"text":"以及剛剛副總召所說的賴清德過去承認是我們立法院的同事所以他回娘家他也很熟悉這個立法院的運作所以是以這個人因為賴清德他可能對立法院夠熟悉那他個人也釋出了善意所以似乎尋答是可以的"},{"start":3877.096,"end":3895.471,"text":"或者是去推敲說,他就可以來接受這樣子的詢問跟挑戰。但我想要回到就是說,行憲、憲法的規定是不要去假設他是誰,他是一個制度嘛。所以說未來也有可能產出的總統,他不是來自於國會經驗的。"},{"start":3896.952,"end":3919.627,"text":"所以制度是一個重要的不能是因為人他擁有什麼樣的經驗所以去試想這個制度可以怎麼設計所以我們再回到憲法的本文本文的第四條第三項很清楚的是立法院與每年集會時得聽取總統國情報告第一個報告出現了那相關的就是職權行使法第二章之一所以第十五條之一"},{"start":3920.928,"end":3936.481,"text":"有寫,第十五條之一,就是依《中華民國憲法增修條文》立法院德語每年集會時聽取總統國情報告,報告第一次出現。這是《自詮刑事法》的十五條之一,報告兩個字的第一次出現。第十五條之二的第一項,"},{"start":3938.042,"end":3964.11,"text":"立法院得經全體立委四分之以上提議．院會決議後由程序委員會排定議程就國家安全大戰方針聽取總統國情報告。報告這兩字第二次出現這是十五條之二的第一項十五條之二的第二項總統就其職權相關之國家大戰方針得知請立法院同意後赴立法院進行國情報告這是第二次出現的報告就在同一條的第二項"},{"start":3965.35,"end":3984.052,"text":"然後再來十五條之三就略過因為有立法院聽取國情報告前三日要送書面報告所以報告報告又出現了兩次十五條之四立法委員與總統國情報告完畢後得就報告不明明了之處提出問題其發言的吧啦吧啦吧有黨團協商決定"},{"start":3985.834,"end":4001.584,"text":"而最後一項就前向委員之發言經總統同意時得綜合再進行補充報告所以這當中我們看到從憲法本文再到職權行使法的四個條文出現了好幾次的都是報告"},{"start":4002.725,"end":4029.51,"text":"所以為什麼在修法跟憲政的援引．它的文字修正非常清楚．而且謹慎的是用報告兩個字為之．而從頭到尾沒有出現尋答．答覆這些事情．即便是職權行使法的第十五條之四的最後一項．第二項．就是金總統動議時德政對委員的發言進行綜合報告．它也是報告的形式"},{"start":4030.35,"end":4057.028,"text":"所以我在這裡我是要當然我也要替中嘉賓委員爭取一下他是不是等一下能夠有補充說明的機會那如果他沒有獲得補充說明的機會我想我代為他再簡單說明一下其實在場除了嘉賓委員過去擔任國代邱毅寅委員曾經擔任國大我自己在一九九七年我就是國民大會黨團民進黨團的助理所以我也曾經在國民大會裡頭去見證過李登輝前總統的國情報告的"},{"start":4060.23,"end":4064.772,"text":"任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前。"},{"start":4079.52,"end":4104.736,"text":"那中嘉賓委員他的論述很清楚我是真的很想替他爭取他自己講會比我替他講來講得更清楚因為嘉賓委員他去回溯幾次修憲之後回應到我剛剛說的條文落在條文他還是以報告兩字為之也就是李前總統僅曾於最後結束前再進行一次總結發言就是行憲的實例嘛"},{"start":4106.657,"end":4129.723,"text":"實踐憲法精神之下發生的狀況。所以,未來若有總統在應邀赴國情報告到立院之時,賴清德總統他所負有的義務應當不能超出李前總統當年在國民大會之範圍,也就是委員可以提問之後,總統是在最終他得以決定選擇他要不要來進行一個總結發言。」"},{"start":4133.524,"end":4154.85,"text":"我希望我的說法沒有溢出我對於憲政的理解還有當初呃李登輝前總統國情報告的這整個實例所以我從第一個我們在旅行創造一個憲政慣例我們要跳脫因人設置的那個想像啊因為賴清德當過立委啊他變才無愛啊他都可以來答詢no憲法的規定是什麼總統不對國會不負責"},{"start":4158.493,"end":4176.555,"text":"對於國會負責接受詢答的是行政院長。所以不能因人設置,我們要創造合憲的憲政管理。第二個,就憲法本文到職權行使法的四個條文,它出現的文字都是報告兩個字,從來沒有答詢、回答"},{"start":4177.136,"end":4200.989,"text":"的這個文字。這個在我們在作為立法委員對於每一個修法的立法原意我們都會去推敲而且會去研究他過去為什麼這樣落款。文字的定義非常清楚所以他是報告。第三個在搭配過去行線的經驗李登輝前總統所運行的國民大會的報告他是最終進行一個總和發言所以我在親自的表明"},{"start":4201.988,"end":4205.712,"text":"這我們要創造憲政慣例總統他不是對國會負責的他不是接受詢問之後QA Q&A不是這樣的所以綜合即便是最終總統可以決定他要或不要進行綜合總結的發言"},{"start":4220.886,"end":4245.01,"text":"這個我們一定要抓得非常精準。我們在創造憲政管理,不要溢出憲法的規範,還有實際運行的一個實際經驗。我再一次爭取讓中嘉賓法制委員會的召委今天能夠在場發言,他是過去有經驗的丹。秋毅委員也是。好,謝謝。謝謝柯建銘,對不起,柯建銘總召先舉手,侯孟凱委員請稍等。謝謝,好,請。院長,各位女玩同仁,"},{"start":4250.612,"end":4278.448,"text":"我們上次發了三個半鐘頭在談總統國情報告其實有點像在開憲法法庭兩兆不同的意見在憲法法庭那剛才吳教偉提到中加兵委員他以及邱穎薇曾經做過國打那我們把從整個邏輯來看待就是說曾經李登輝總統的時候曾經做過修憲"},{"start":4279.915,"end":4288.789,"text":"那第一次修憲是一九九一年嘛我應該好國大好一九九一年修憲那修憲是什麼就是說總統由國大選舉"},{"start":4291.21,"end":4315.21,"text":"國大選總統,然後國大可以有修憲的潛力。這個是1991年。1992年第二次修憲的時候往總統要執選的方向。總統要執選的時候,那國大剩下什麼潛力呢?國大剩下就是一些司法考試監察的同意錢。"},{"start":4316.365,"end":4336.4,"text":"現在單一國會前進回到我們這一代。」這是整個這樣的一個演變。但是換了這個的時候,李登輝還是在整個憲法上面還是保留了這個就是說,聽起國情報告並檢討國事,提供建言。"},{"start":4337.561,"end":4361.859,"text":"換句話說,讓這些國民黨黨國代表．雖然他是已經盡力銷路,總統要直選了。所以呢,他還是保留給他這個統一選舉的心思．乃至於提起國事．檢討國事提供建言,這樣一個管道。但是,你總統去了七次。"},{"start":4363.861,"end":4383.898,"text":"其實以後那都是政府會打沒有存在所謂的積分之難那二零零五年第七次修憲就在立法院等於前七年標誌那大家都很清楚那整個全部完全改變了那在第七次修憲的時候完畢以後也廢了國大"},{"start":4386.5,"end":4392.924,"text":"所以整個那次修憲的時候,希望整個第四條,希望沒有總統得來做國情報告。但沒有辦法馬關於計畫並檢討國事提供建議,不見了。因為總統不是有,總統是明顯的。"},{"start":4409.441,"end":4428.927,"text":"國大選總統,總統當然要被國大來負責。」所以我們現在回到一個很重要的憲政體制上面來談,我是這樣覺得比較有意義。因為說我們要同時要看待整個修憲的過程的演變。整個台灣憲政體制是這樣發展而來。那以前金融大案也很大。"},{"start":4429.929,"end":4454.028,"text":"因為竟然還會行使從以前的時代也曾經有所以今天我們回到這裡的時候議會還已經變成單一國會了單一國會當然我們也開始修憲了那整個憲法設計上是什麼呢?憲法寫得很清楚行政院是第53條行政院是國家最高行政機關是不是這樣?"},{"start":4456.519,"end":4468.343,"text":"那從三條到六十一條就要講行政院他有編列預算的權力然後因為通過以後上來給立法院審查所以這預算權屬於這個行政權和立法權是有分割的"},{"start":4471.823,"end":4482.95,"text":"那憲法有根據很清楚就是說62條叫75條有關於立法院委員的職權尤其63條寫得很清楚立法院是在預決法律案、預算案、憲章過後條例案等等這個是憲法給我們的權利所以立法委員的權利是什麼這是根據很清楚"},{"start":4499.921,"end":4522.676,"text":"然後我們回到先往曾經的條文。曾經的條文。曾經的條文裡面第二條,總統之前到底寫在哪裡?大家找總統到底在做什麼?那先往本文就總統是嚴守三星統帥。那總統之前到底怎麼行事?國情還有行政院長對法律案的附屬權都修掉了。"},{"start":4524.07,"end":4537.8,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告前．一、研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方�"},{"start":4538.399,"end":4559.136,"text":"所以總統的權益就是對國家安全的大增防針所以我們要解釋說國防兩岸外交這屬於總統的權益因為他從第二次成立中央協議對國家安全的大增防針那並要並要同時涉中共底下涉國安會"},{"start":4560.597,"end":4578.412,"text":"還有國安局。這是過去國安三法的時代,就是這樣。所以這很清楚,總統的職權就是國家的安全重大事項。這寫很清楚。那香港中國條文第三條寫什麼?總統是明顯的嘛,他是對選民負責的。"},{"start":4581.523,"end":4610.342,"text":"總統不是對立法院負責．行政院對立法院負責．這個很清楚．這個邏輯應該說得下來．楊建立對立法院負責．所以其中有執政條件第三條寫得很清楚．就是說總統指定行政院長總統派來立法院做施政方針並備詢．所以有剛才我們講的總執行．部會首長當然到委會要備詢．立法院第三條就寫得很清楚"},{"start":4611.464,"end":4618.962,"text":"那立法院有執行之前．立法院有執行該進行．所以這權益分立非常清楚．誰對誰．一個人對一個人"},{"start":4621.237,"end":4623.8,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告及本院配合延會相關事宜。」相關事宜。"},{"start":4643.66,"end":4656.028,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院院長施政方針報告前�"},{"start":4658.237,"end":4685.003,"text":"等一等,我再把這個邏輯講清楚。院長,我不講清楚,大家天天在鬧。很清楚,所以還在倒戈。所以今天我們再回到這整個邏輯框架上,在新聞記事上來談這個事情的時候,剛才黃昌山委員談的就是說,那就有關於這個同問同答嘛。就一黨團問完,另外一個黨團回答。在設計上是,"},{"start":4687.795,"end":4715.525,"text":"總統不是對立法院來負責,說是要來做國情報告而已,不是來給你執行、給你問的。當然,你有不清楚事項的時候,提出問題的話,他有絕對的主動權,我會幫你回答你,這是他的潛力。所以,剛才黃昌峰委員所談的,我相信你也是歷史出身的,統一黨統一黨就是背向的極文極大。"},{"start":4717.245,"end":4743.037,"text":"因為總統並不是給你執行用的,不是給你執行用的。那這一點我們先釐清啦。我說我們再一直談下去,或許談三個半分鐘。接下來我們談一個問題。那這個問題當然每次講他就講的好像在掀示一個東西,但是我不知道他重點在掀示什麼。我們都知道總統來這個是一個先人管理任務,立法院先開始等等。但是他只講一句話就是說,"},{"start":4745.559,"end":4758.448,"text":"我只要講錯請副委員你再你說你不經意任何形式好沒有安排及形式上沒有強烈要求這講什麼意思"},{"start":4759.878,"end":4777.309,"text":"安排及行事上．這代表你要在合憲底下讓總統來報告以後,讓總統得進行他的憲法上的前例。可是上次我們經常叫黎欽"},{"start":4778.79,"end":4792.819,"text":"三次侯孟凱以及柯文綺委員都談過相關問題。三個人問完再回答一次。三個人回答再回答一次。有三次總統的回答。這是一個變相的執行。"},{"start":4794.881,"end":4815.726,"text":"那侯文凱的意見講說這是臺北國會議頭案,來問問他都不記得,國會議頭案是運動大事。請問,我們先把設計總統室來給立法院執行了嗎?當然是行政院長嘛,所以在這個地方大家要把觀念講清楚才有可以往下走下去,不然一直繞下去,以上就是我所談的。"},{"start":4816.986,"end":4827.579,"text":"可是你贊成哪一種?還沒講。已經有核限性啊。就是說他來。我知道,核限性之外,我們具體,你到現在還沒有講喔?沒關係沒關係。我講的核限性就是說,一總統來,來做國民報告以後,"},{"start":4832.364,"end":4849.576,"text":"那你有問題問他,他得嘛,這個他要...對,他再要不要回答是他的事情,這是他潛力,因為這是他潛力。你講的是在三安盟要跟三安盟回答,跟三安盟要跟三安盟回答,那這個不一樣嘛。團進團出也是一樣嘛。"},{"start":4852.137,"end":4863.205,"text":"你不要講其他委員怎麼想,就你個人怎麼想。我個人講得很清楚啊,就是要做核限性,就是核限性。那落實在具體的總統國情報告完畢之後。等一下,總統得來做國情報告,他可以持續要求來,我們請他來都可以。對,認他來的對不對,他做國情報告。"},{"start":4872.512,"end":4875.795,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":4888.805,"end":4912.121,"text":"我要同時說黃珊珊講得非常清楚,她有兩種方式,第一個當然就是綜合回答,第二個她想以政黨來回答,但是副官其中的面目,副官其中的。院長你現在講,你一直抄話,我把她完整的,我怕你在抄話,把她完整的描述清楚,她說一個政黨完畢,總統要回答,三個政黨完畢,第二個政黨回答。"},{"start":4913.562,"end":4919.35,"text":"一個政黨完畢就回答,一個政黨完畢就回答,只有三次回答的機會,這就是變相的急問急答好不好。"},{"start":4920.404,"end":4942.712,"text":"不能接受。這麼清楚吧。要說柯總長就是說黃珊珊幹事長所提的這兩個方案您都不接受。那他只有提議這個方案嗎?沒有,兩個啊。一個是綜合答覆,另外一個是根據政黨依序答覆。這個要講清楚,你要哪一個?這不是大家要包白啦。我們黨上長包來包去都不要。一個答案就是怎麼樣?"},{"start":4943.612,"end":4956.834,"text":"他提出來他也他就是拋磚引玉嘛他說我這兩個方向看副國民黨總召一說完全高度尊重賴清德總統只要在形式上完全合乎憲法國民黨總召有最大的善意"},{"start":4958.324,"end":4959.105,"text":"現在請侯孟楷書記長請發言"},{"start":4979.11,"end":4997.869,"text":"感謝院長從頭到尾到今天我們討論第一個案的時候我們釋出最大善意我們願意在不管是施政報告行政院長施政報告跟延會的事宜我們都採取最寬容的態度來配合大家因為我們希望今天既然有五個案子"},{"start":4999.25,"end":5015.987,"text":"國民黨黨團提議．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院"},{"start":5021.673,"end":5025.136,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":5046.354,"end":5060.55,"text":"邀請總統來作國情報告。」所以這個是在我們的提案裡面都有寫到。也因此我們剛剛也已經在立案的時候施出最大善意。我們認為行政院長可以在五月三十一號來做施政總報告。那"},{"start":5061.331,"end":5086.722,"text":"我們也算過在五月三十一號之前有三次的院會時間分別是五月二十一五月二十四跟五月二十八我們也希望各黨團等一下不要再糾結就像上一次禮拜一的時候的朝野協商說一定要行政院長先總統後或是因為我們兩個提案其實都寫得非常清楚就是總統先在行政院長後再者"},{"start":5088.513,"end":5116.429,"text":"再者我想剛剛講到的我們如果說都要用憲法的語言文字之前媒體有報導所謂即問即答同問同答一問一答等等這個是方便各民眾大家的一個想法跟理解但如果說今天我們就事論事如同剛剛這個民進黨團的代表都講得很清楚那刑法憲法的這個規定的話那我們就用憲法規定"},{"start":5119.006,"end":5144.407,"text":"憲法規定我們得邀請總統來做國情報告而立委職權新施法裡面我們立法委員可以提出問題總統就立法委員提出問題的發言總統同意之後得做補充報告換言之一個的權利是提出問題另外一個的權利是報告但是他報告要不要針對這個問題不一定"},{"start":5148.02,"end":5173.672,"text":"確實,憲法裡面沒有規定,憲法或是立委職權行事法,總統講報告的時候沒有一定規定說要針對問題,可是這是對人民報告,這是對人民負責。如果說今天立法委員他在提出問題的時候,沒有針對總統負責的外交國防兩岸等相關國家重要方向的話,那我們立法委員失職。"},{"start":5175.376,"end":5192.811,"text":"所以我們有六分鐘的時間我們對我們自己負責那一樣我們得邀請總統詢問他同不同意來針對提出的問題做補充報告的時候總統有兩個權利第一總統的權利是他可以同意或他可以不同意"},{"start":5193.872,"end":5218.407,"text":"我們現在不需要因為在場沒有一個位是總統我們不需要幫賴清德總統決定說他要不要同意或他要不要不同意我們只提出說不管是之前我們林思敏委員有提到的因為這一次有二十位委員都可以有發言的機會所以是不是以二十位來講四位提出問題一次我們就詢問禮貌的詢問總統你要不要補充報告總統可以不同意總統也可以同意"},{"start":5224.338,"end":5249.323,"text":"這個是總統的權責所以我們不用去受限總統總統如果不想要面對剛剛總統如果覺得說前四位委員講的問題不屑一顧不想回答他也有他的權利說不回答但我相信賴清德準總統他應該不會那再者就回歸到說他報告的時候是不是所謂民進黨團的代表講的是回答其實不是啊為什麼"},{"start":5251.516,"end":5273.411,"text":"提問的人有提問的時間但是我們沒有限制總統回答的方向以及限制回答的時間這就是最大的不同總統是報告他是補充報告所以說他不是他不是尋答他不是在我們的問題的時候他來做尋答他補充報告的時候他的內容是什麼沒有人給他限制"},{"start":5274.272,"end":5289.945,"text":"他可以針對委員提出來的問題做補充報告他也可以不針對委員提出來問題補充報告因為沒有一個人有辦法左右他的一個報告但是我們給予依照相關的法令給予他的權利讓他去做補充報告"},{"start":5290.746,"end":5307.571,"text":"所以這就很明顯了。絕對不存在所謂剛剛講的統問統答就是變相的即問即答。這完全不是事實。這一個描述完全是錯誤的。再來我們現在提出來的方案也都是合乎憲法以及合乎立院職權行使法。"},{"start":5308.391,"end":5334.662,"text":"所以,終結一下,我們現在有幾個部分。國民黨團上一次林思明委員這邊有提到,不管是四位問完,詢問總統要不要補充報告,或是五位問完,詢問總統要不要補充報告。那總統原則上他有四次或五次的機會是可以針對或是不針對提問,但是他有機會做補充報告。"},{"start":5335.814,"end":5355.747,"text":"我覺得今天我們要討論的是一個方式我們不要設限賴清德準總統他願意或不願意或是賴清德準總統他回答的內容我覺得如果任何一個人因為你要去除非民進黨團的代表跟我們講這是賴清德總統的意思"},{"start":5358.798,"end":5369.524,"text":"反而,如果說我們今天大家坐在這邊,我們都依照憲法,依照立院極權行事法跟我們的權利,然後我們還自我設限的話,那我覺得我們沒有對人民交代啊。好,謝謝洪孟凱書記長。接下來我們請莊瑞雄幹事長請發言。"},{"start":5381.042,"end":5409.611,"text":"國民黨的協商代表這個在談到憲法的時候這個叫做跳痛為什麼說跳痛這邏輯就錯誤了為什麼說邏輯錯誤總統想到立法院來他不是想來就可以來他第一個他想來我說賴清德很想來他要先知請立法院同意第一個他想來他不一定可以來第二個"},{"start":5411.144,"end":5433.213,"text":"立法院想要總統來．我們事分之一提案．願會作決議以後．到程序委員會去排時間．排了．他就一定來嗎．也未必。為什麼會．我們憲法是講說．總統的聽取．立法委員得聽取總統的國情報告．然後又沒有去科與他義務．為什麼會這樣．"},{"start":5435.974,"end":5461.003,"text":"就是總統他不是立法院的監督機關也就是說一般講的行政院他當然要對立法院來負責天經地義嘛那我們憲法的設計啊偏偏啊不是這樣設計不是說我總統我來想來對所謂的國民黨所講的民意來負責所以我要來NO立法院同意你才可以來不是你想來就可以來"},{"start":5462.293,"end":5467.096,"text":"立法院去作成決議以後．總統是不是一定有義務要來．那也未必。」憲法如果我的解釋沒錯的話這個就是民進黨的態度這第一個那第二個我們就討論完了"},{"start":5477.613,"end":5501.919,"text":"時間六分鐘．人數．順序這都討論完了。」討論這個有沒有意義?有啊!有意義啊!我們上個禮拜還講說我們是往前跨出一步啦!可是我本來是不想講話的,你們又在談說憲法的規定,如果真的要談憲法的規定的話,好啦!那就變成說,總統報告完以後呢,有不清楚的地方,大家上立法委員去詢問,詢問完,總統得去做補充報告,好啦!"},{"start":5505.74,"end":5514.487,"text":"我們去做決議：總統也不知道你們要問什麼啊。我們先決議說,好囉,我幫你做決議。決議算盲算了,不管是各政黨輪流來答覆,或者說同問同答來答覆。我們也太早幫他做決定。所以我的認為就是說,有善意的時候其實都是可以有默契啦。都是可以有默契啦。可是你去把這邊把它做成決定的話,"},{"start":5534.164,"end":5538.248,"text":"很抱歉,實在是,你說真的要去合乎憲法的一個規定啊。我都不認為他有合乎憲法的一個規定。這只是說,如果真的願意,大家都有善意啦,有默契,其實就談得下去啊。阿你不是,我看你這樣吼,今天如果我們來邀請的吼,"},{"start":5554.192,"end":5568.548,"text":"我看今天國民黨這樣的一個邀請的一個方式,就從大家從徵修條文,從整個法律的一個修正,到這兩三次的一個攻防過程裡面,其實我真的還沒有看到那個善意。"},{"start":5569.935,"end":5595.402,"text":"所以莊瑞雄幹事長提的一個比較大膽一點的大家有沒有聽出來這意思是說我們時間定好了一個人六分鐘然後人數也定好了992政黨次序也定好了民眾黨、民進黨、國內黨照莊瑞雄幹事長所提出來是一個非常大膽的他的意思是說全部都問完之後賴清德總統做最後的決定"},{"start":5596.65,"end":5618.653,"text":"按照憲法進行,他可以通通不答覆,謝謝大家,就走了。」這個也是一種,也就是莊惠雄幹事長他點出這個要點出來,而不是我們過去三次朝野協商,我們一直孜孜不倦地在追求說我們希望怎麼樣問他怎麼打,我們三四個人他三四個打,或者我們政黨為代表他來打。莊惠雄的代表,莊惠雄委員的意思就是說,"},{"start":5619.574,"end":5646.27,"text":"我們就不要再去過問這一塊了。完全尊重賴清德總統。」那這個應該...我嘗試...我嘗試...因為莊惠雄那個委員啊...對不起啊,叫董事長,對不起,叫錯了。莊惠雄委員的意思是跳脫那個了。那這一點我想請林思明副局長請。是。我想院長、各位委員。其實我想..."},{"start":5647.851,"end":5673.328,"text":"我們立法院得聽取總統的國情報告．我們在憲法徵修條文寫得非常清楚。這是立法院的權利啊。對不對?你同意嗎?但是要怎麼進行?是不是我們就在我們的立法委員職權行使法從十五條之一就做出相關很明確的規定。把說我們什麼時候要建啊都把寫得非常清楚。"},{"start":5674.309,"end":5678.53,"text":"委員會作成決議．請公決案。」相關事宜。．國民黨黨團提議．請公決案。」相關事宜。．國民黨黨團提議．請公決案。」相關事宜。．國民黨黨團提議．請公決案。」相關事宜。．國民黨黨團提議．請公決案。」"},{"start":5694.599,"end":5719.239,"text":"他不能拒絕因為你在十五條之二寫得非常清楚十五條之三就總統應在我們邀請之後三天內他就要提出書面包寫應喔所以總統只要我們已經經過決議邀請他來他就一定要來就是一定要來嘛否則我們要講應嘛所以我先跟大家來做第一個說明第二個"},{"start":5720.339,"end":5748.266,"text":"到底總統來之後我們要怎麼樣來進行這個提問這在十五條之事就寫得非常清楚了嘛這無庸置疑還要去做解讀至於說到底他來做報告因為我們可以有提問的權利嘛這也講得很清楚了那提問的次序人數什麼都講得很清楚那他來我們問了之後他是要做補充報告還是說他要怎麼回答"},{"start":5748.826,"end":5777.271,"text":"但是沒有做很明確的說總統要怎麼樣去行使他的一個報告權、補充報告的一個方式沒有講。那這部分我想我們總召或者孟凱或者黃三山副總召講得很清楚啊。尊重總統他的一個他要怎麼樣來做回答做或者做報告的一個方式。我們很open啊。所以你們這不會一直把我們解讀說我們就是一定要要求他做回答。"},{"start":5777.611,"end":5779.772,"text":"沒有這樣的意思。我要特別澄清。謝謝。我發言"},{"start":5805.011,"end":5822.723,"text":"任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商"},{"start":5834.724,"end":5855.271,"text":"那今天民進黨團三位幹部所提出的他可來可不來我要比較好奇的詢問一下這是柯總召個人的意思呢還是賴總統的意思呢"},{"start":5856.567,"end":5883.039,"text":"因為賴總統是對全國國人表示他希望當選以後有機會到立法院來做國情的報告所以這個部分如果柯總召要取代賴清德總統來幫他做決定甚至剛才也表示說他不一定要來當然如果是這樣"},{"start":5884.574,"end":5912.504,"text":"科總統權力有這麼大,我們也尊重啦。」第二,對於這個憲法所明確的表達來做國情報告以後,總統到國會做國情報告以後,我們這些立法委員有對其中不了解之處"},{"start":5913.803,"end":5939.742,"text":"提出問題。」那今天聽起來也是民進黨黨團表達賴總統可答可不答所以說今天到立法院來國情報告完我們把所有的問題都講完以後然後"},{"start":5942.489,"end":5970.444,"text":"他也可以回答然後也可以掉頭就走聽起來像是民進黨提出這樣的一個方式我想民主國家剛剛有提到的其實是他講完了就走並沒有我們憲法上說的不明白的地方我們提問之後提問之後"},{"start":5972.898,"end":6000.473,"text":"然後就相關的部分總統是不是能夠解或是疑畢竟那就是回應民意所以我在這裡要特別強調一件事情我相信賴總統是希望來立法院做國情報告的我也相信賴總統應該是尊重立法院"},{"start":6002.992,"end":6030.459,"text":"相關的看法來做國情的報告。」所以我還是要再請教一下今天我們剛剛討論到現在民進黨不斷提出的方式是不是就如同柯總召講的這就是賴清德總統他的想法如果確定是賴清德總統他的想法"},{"start":6032.213,"end":6036.034,"text":"我想這個事宜會比較清楚。」好不好?"},{"start":6061.524,"end":6069.994,"text":"那個稍微等一下好不好,對不起啊,嘉賓兄最對不起,柯總長請請。"},{"start":6073.559,"end":6097.556,"text":"其實我們有一個題目一直沒有談清楚啦當然現在一談又糊掉了超越協商的代表到底是法案預算所是三個人嗎這過去沒有這樣的規定這一點請尊重過去的所以這一題一直沒有談清楚嘉賓他議員來這裡做終究上次差點被請出去啦那現在這樣也枯燥了坦白講的話"},{"start":6099.757,"end":6125.048,"text":"大家保持參議,對於委員基本的禮貌,當國大代表,我剛才跟你講過應該請到法院,所以再徵詢,問題總召上次是同意,黃總召是競表不同意,我們再問看看好不好,出口吧。我們休息三分鐘,謝謝。"},{"start":6697.213,"end":6702.415,"text":"好各位黨團幹部現在我們繼續開會接下來我們請民進黨黨團柯建民總召簡短發言請謝謝到目前為止"},{"start":6713.553,"end":6727.885,"text":"我們都在一個非常理性的尾道上在談事情。那院長也從你這麼大小我也了解。我只要對於國情報告我再做綜合回答普通報告。"},{"start":6728.846,"end":6743.622,"text":"然後大家還不下去,我們就放旁邊好不好?因為這個潮流想起一雞還沒到嘛。接下去就是說,現在兩個議程嘛,發動快以及發動高嘛,上次也談很久了。"},{"start":6744.583,"end":6768.326,"text":"黨媒應該就是說假如明天要處理的話還誠懇建議我們整個議事程序這個完整化他會向大家獻明幾個法案明天要議場的時候做這兩個條文的表決反正這個早表決晚表決未來四年的結果都是如此啊都是一定一定會延嘛"},{"start":6769.867,"end":6788.243,"text":"那至少這個建行的民主程序大家都走完。我們不希望,我們不希望說沒有討論就直接表決,也沒有結論就直接表決。三、四年來從來沒有如此。那剛才也跟院長講,跟副總要談了。那我等一下講共同的結論的話。"},{"start":6790.543,"end":6817.265,"text":"我們就明天可以是不去搭風干戈那剩下的直接稀釋完很多還沒談的我們繼續要談很多條文那以後接下來談反正反正我們立法院的結果我們承認我們過去30年來沒有贏過沒有關係但是至少民主能夠在這裡呈現"},{"start":6818.703,"end":6838.489,"text":"所以院長假如這樣的話,他等下證明他同意,我們就很理性的明天也不會衝突,該表決就表決,其中其中要簽完,能不能大家在宴會上發言,結束以後我們叫陳熙來。至少這是一個很重要的民主的最後防線好不好。"},{"start":6844.376,"end":6848.78,"text":"國民黨黨團．建請院會作成決議．提出國情報告．提出國情報告．提出國情報告"},{"start":6858.208,"end":6884.569,"text":"我們已經經過三次操議協商討論總統的國情報告顯然大家已經把所有自己心中的想法看法意見也都合板拖出來了那我們今天因為寶貴的時間交通部部長已經列席跟國家發展委員會高副主委各位官員列席的也是第三次了所以我們今天就把總統國情的那個報告這個這個案子呢我們再留待下次協商我們今天開始進入第四案院長"},{"start":6885.31,"end":6907.579,"text":"等一下,我補充報告,補充報告結束以後,要放下,要往下走,要往下走。我針對剛才,我還是理性的觀念,沒有,您是不是講說立法院有潛力叫總統來,又不是這樣。憲法徵收條文第四條寫得很清楚,立法院每年集會的時候,得喔!"},{"start":6909.141,"end":6915.153,"text":"民眾黨黨團提議．新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":6917.813,"end":6944.78,"text":"立法院．每年集會時．定期。」不是說我叫你來一定要來,這是我們的權利。那我們的諮詢信息法怎麼寫呢?也是一樣,書條之一,也是寫的一樣。立法院得於每年集會時,聽起國情報告,就是如此,就是得。所以並沒有立法院,然後接下來書條之二就是說,總統可以來諮詢,我想來做國情報告,就去管道。"},{"start":6945.64,"end":6955.384,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長"},{"start":6973.602,"end":6989.818,"text":"等一下等一下,院長等一下喔。不是啦,讓我講完嘛,大家紅樓開會嘛。我把它做成補充報告而已啦。就剛才各黨所言嘛,那這個胡孟凱談了,"},{"start":6993.174,"end":7009.063,"text":"我們上次是講說總統不必先來,執行長先來。他今天又回到說總統要先來,而且指定要講出時間五二一、五二四、五二八。所以你的講法和上次是不一樣。"},{"start":7010.003,"end":7036.151,"text":"意思是說,總統你要先來,我期間給你找好了。是五二一、五二四、五二八。然後我們剛才談的五三一四,就請新院長來。所以大家不要耍詭計啦。每次講的話都不一樣,雖然講得很清楚。好,那這個是第一點,問何孟楷。二十個人,你講說,四個問完的時候,請問他,總統你要不要?"},{"start":7040.092,"end":7064.794,"text":"而又要回答。沒有這一回事情啊。這時候有點變相,造成政治衝突啊。你們四人只要回答一次,總共回答五次。這個是變相的急問急答。等一下我把他的真點先講出來,留在下一次協商我們才能夠談得清楚。但是侯孟海講到一句話,"},{"start":7066.924,"end":7081.004,"text":"他說總統是來做補充報告而已不是執行的報告就是報告執行就是執行總統來做國情報告就是報告因為執行好不好聽那你要"},{"start":7083.717,"end":7096.669,"text":"不要設限。．副分局一直質問我的一回事情。講說話事很關門台灣。你柯總召的意思還賴清德的意思。"},{"start":7097.645,"end":7126.393,"text":"而上次教育講清楚,賴總統在選舉的時候就講得很清楚,是合法合憲他一定來。這個當然是如此啦。所以我對於今天所談的這些問題,包括民眾黨的問題,說一個黨問完再回答,再一個黨問完,這些都變相的請問幾檔,要變相的執行。總統不對,立法院負責。總統只派行政院長來做,立法院做私人報告,對大家負責。"},{"start":7127.895,"end":7134.793,"text":"所以要報告就是報告,執行就是執行,是兩碼子事,這是憲政原則設計,如此清楚而已。"},{"start":7136.475,"end":7162.63,"text":"謝謝柯總召那現在我們這個第一案關於第一案邀請賴清德總統至立法院進行國情報告我們留待下次協商接下來我們繼續討論第四案環島高速鐵路建設特別條例花東快速公路建設特別條例草案請國民黨黨團提出說明提案請說是哪一個先啊請國民黨先環島環島高鐵先"},{"start":7172.128,"end":7180.499,"text":"從民國八十八年台灣高鐵動工到九十五年完工通車以後,這個台灣"},{"start":7182.133,"end":7209.431,"text":"整個南北的距離不但縮短．也讓整個國家的．各方面的動力．還有經濟實力大幅的提升．就如同當年．這個經國先生十大建設．來推動了這個．中山高速國務以後．讓台灣能夠整體的退變．成為亞洲的四小龍之首龍頭．國家的一些重大的建設．"},{"start":7212.233,"end":7236.616,"text":"本來就應該積極的來推動而台灣高鐵通車以後我們全國台灣島就這麼小三萬六千平方公里那我們這個國土裡面到底有沒有一個均衡的發展有沒有一個最基本的這個人道而人本的原則有沒有基本的一個平權"},{"start":7238.543,"end":7246.605,"text":"任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":7258.32,"end":7275.493,"text":"是這一次大地震裡面聞風不動．而且成為共同緊急時刻避難的處所。」所以我們也看到零四、零三的大地震整個台灣高鐵安好如初。所以對於整個"},{"start":7277.595,"end":7282.4,"text":"黨黨團提議：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商"},{"start":7299.799,"end":7323.572,"text":"這個王國才王部長從2021年以後提到環島高鐵不是夢我們有多次在委員會在院會跟歷任的蘇貞昌院長還是陳建仁院長都提到相關的這些問題也特別表達得到蘇貞昌院長跟陳建仁院長都是高度正面的回應我們要特別感謝"},{"start":7326.62,"end":7342.515,"text":"這個韓國瑜韓院長在今年二月初陳建仁院長來拜訪您的時候你也告訴他對台灣有一個重大的一個願望就是國道六號要打通台灣高鐵要環島把它做好"},{"start":7343.576,"end":7370.088,"text":"可能完工的時候大家都不在世上了不過沒有關係我想韓院長你應該這個看起來這個一百歲不會有問題我們一起來做環島高鐵所以我想今天大家都是善意對國土的規劃跟建設我們要積極的推動那對於我要特別聲明當然朝野有不同的看法"},{"start":7371.055,"end":7395.806,"text":"但是這絕對不是十億百億千億兆元的錢坑。」我們一再表達第一個我們同意在各自的協商當中大家所表達的意見我們也對民進黨所提出的相關的看法也非常的尊重所以跟民眾黨討論了以後對民進黨相關的這些指導"},{"start":7400.868,"end":7421.623,"text":"國民黨黨團提議：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院院"},{"start":7423.801,"end":7439.439,"text":"我們也看過這個整個時間,我們跟民眾黨討論了以後,我們現在暫定是12年的時間,因為我們整個去了解在過程當中,在整個"},{"start":7441.501,"end":7469.422,"text":"台灣高鐵在興建過程當中因為他們中間有一個四年在BOT的這個修法上立法上也花了一對相對的一個時間那基本上現在的工法都比過去還要再更加的進步我想民國八十八年的動工距離現在已經三十三已經有二十幾年多二十五年以上現在的工法也更加的進步當然我們也了解說"},{"start":7471.846,"end":7481.283,"text":"這個王國才部長雖然他今天總辭讓我也謝謝他今天還是能夠出席啊那個王部長"},{"start":7482.386,"end":7500.066,"text":"我是來幫你圓夢,我們在幫你圓夢。這個環島高鐵不是夢,所以我們馬上回應你,也立即來圓夢。我想對於這個宜蘭、花蓮、臺東、屏東的鄉親,被整個中央過去的政策"},{"start":7501.608,"end":7505.652,"text":"任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":7516.83,"end":7533.139,"text":"國內的BOT、國際的BOT．用更快速的一個方式．我們來推動進行。」那也希望呢．這個執政黨．能夠欣然接受．我們大家一起．一起為台灣加油．能夠讓環島高鐵．能夠盡快的來推動來進行。院長"},{"start":7538.142,"end":7562.029,"text":"好,謝謝蕙琦總召。我們現在跟所有黨團幹部來報告一下今天列席的幾位官員。第一位,我們交通部王部長。國家發展委員會的高副主委。還有其他所列席的官員,財政部、環境部、文化部、原住民委會、法務部、工程委員會、主計處,請大家舉手。好,熱情歡迎。接下來請我們柯建民總召,請。院長。"},{"start":7563.169,"end":7592.148,"text":"我還是要談一個程式性問題當然我非常感謝今天已經是六個總辭了吧總辭了吧所以相關人在後面的一些主管都換來的他們還是能夠來立法院這一點應該得高度肯定代表他們都非常負責只要有有時間的機會能夠對國家做一些貢獻我想他們還是秉持一個很好公務體系上面一個"},{"start":7593.209,"end":7602.215,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前"},{"start":7611.926,"end":7639.064,"text":"有關法．及預算．應該行．那個人數不應該如此限制。剛才我提出說中張英委員、邱穎穎委員曾當過國大代表。很謙虛的今天不跟你吵架、不跟大家吵。過去也從來沒有這種慣例說委員在這裡不能講話的。不能找。委員在這裡不能講話這個大概是破天荒。破天荒。三十年沒有如此。"},{"start":7640.345,"end":7664.005,"text":"那你堅持的就是說：要進行大家同意：有關中山民委員也在公會嗎?或你總召說OK。黃總召還是不同意見。這個我們一直是會繼續用這一刻的。那其實現在我還是談同樣問題。因為高鐵左右四個縣市依然發聯台東、屏東。"},{"start":7666.345,"end":7689.418,"text":"那請問,這個當地的立法委員,要不要來出席?不可以出席嗎?請問他是屏東的啊?屏東旁邊的各項也有關的?我還有經過維林住民,裡面有維林住民條款,維林住民保留區的維林住民...柯總長,我是九雄的。屏東?你屏東人啦?屏東人啦?屏東嘛,那也沒有。"},{"start":7691.92,"end":7707.029,"text":"沒有,他沒有請,他高雄,屏東人,高雄嘛,因為高雄是屏東人。那這個,總理常常是屏東地區,所以現在我們是高雄人,要高雄人,要屏東人。"},{"start":7709.861,"end":7718.585,"text":"民眾黨團．建請院會作成決議．於新民眾黨團．建請院會作成決議．於新民眾黨團．建請院會作成決議。"},{"start":7734.764,"end":7752.669,"text":"我不相信以後包括總預算啊三個黨團的黨兵是萬人的這是委員對專業委員非常的大傷害委員中心主義我們在立法院現在可以抽出計劃圖什麼都委員會不能一審這樣的立法院是我們要的嗎這是我們要的國會嗎黃國昌委員你為什麼競票不同意我就很奇怪"},{"start":7765.19,"end":7792.157,"text":"這個東西是還未定的,我們是不想在這裡吵啊,三什麼啊,不是這樣。這立法院程序能夠在這裡,立法院程序能夠在這裡進行才有用。沒有說是你們要怎麼樣就怎麼樣。所以我今天還是一樣的回到一個問題。像,我們召委來了。召委來不能講話。"},{"start":7793.746,"end":7803.253,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於"},{"start":7811.218,"end":7829.085,"text":"那再回頭過來我要講今天的問題好不好。那現在走剛才副局委員所談的問題。第一個,不管環島高或是發動快以及國道6,我想這都是海運長你是理前提案的。"},{"start":7832.106,"end":7848.412,"text":"所以我們不在這裏才會以前提案造成你角色尷尬另外一般的組織法已經寫得很清楚要議事中立然後這個不管沒有關係我相信你會中立那最後你會講說以後你當然下不為議了好"},{"start":7851.053,"end":7867.378,"text":"我們現在在談這個問題的時候,回到核心,就是一個剛才副委員所提的當然講了一下,那黃國昌委員你們也合併提案,那時候現在不用寄信了,"},{"start":7871.179,"end":7899.057,"text":"首選紀律法。但是呢?錢從哪裡來?錢從哪裡來?當然你講什麼BOT,也不談主權基金,怕會誤解,誤解就是中共一帶一路的主權基金。BOT本來就有條例,這個坦白講,他就為了獎賞條例也立過,BOT條例都立過。以現行法院本來就可以做。"},{"start":7900.097,"end":7922.814,"text":"那是另外一種模式。但是你這裡面有錢,錢從哪裡來,你也談到。由中央政府機關分年編列一策。OK。分期委員都講不出來到底要多少錢啊。那過去曾經,好像快,那曾經在王景勝的時候就提過了,馬英九職員就提過了。"},{"start":7923.908,"end":7935.291,"text":"後來副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、副委員、"},{"start":7954.077,"end":7972.191,"text":"假如沒有的話,我今天講一說違憲,你就非常不高興。但是我可以不講嗎?我可以不講嗎?全力奉獻者,先把五十八條請看一下。行政院編列預算,行政院院會通過以後,送到立法院來預審議。"},{"start":7974.363,"end":7992.271,"text":"19條是年度結束前三個月前要送來：這再清楚不夠就是議事案的編列是屬於行政院的潛力。一、法院是去監督這有主動被動的關係。這樣一個主動被動關係的存在的時候"},{"start":7994.272,"end":8002.639,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告及本院配合延會相關事宜。」相關事宜。：新任行政院長施政方針報告及本院配合延會相關事宜。"},{"start":8014.358,"end":8042.67,"text":"在這裡我要談的時候就是說我們原始點大家只要沒有辦法共識的話即便要表決我們也可以面對我們也可以面對但是呢要把話講清楚所以我要在這裡講說八大官264、391、362、613人等都寫得很清楚先把七條也寫得很清楚立法院審查不可以做一項增加"},{"start":8043.65,"end":8060.856,"text":"既然你這個是特別條例,那你預算,我說你這個特別條例,你只能掛在那裡了。你反正可以弄個特別條例,要跟那個法律案,要叫行政院自己分領編列,這當然是危險了。"},{"start":8061.909,"end":8082.954,"text":"這是行政前的問題．我們可以提建議．我在這裏重申國家有機會、有權．對於弱力的建設．發動的建設．去投入．我們百分百贊成．國會反對的．反正民進黨執政已經．對於發動．要將近三千億．四萬塊每次在民進黨所動工．我們現在還有十五萬"},{"start":8091.018,"end":8112.273,"text":"幫他改善鐵路交通系統．等下江峰部長會一一談明所以今天回到一個核心問題和剛才一樣三個題目一樣就是憲政原則假如擁有一個立法院．立法委員．我是陶淑苗．我來配那個特別條例來弄個仰詐"},{"start":8115.534,"end":8140.671,"text":"我是屏東的宗家兵和屏東的宗岳雄或是邱怡穎。我們來高屏發展特別條例三照。請問責任政治在哪裡?國家其他政事都不要做了。我們都知道省、印、川都有政事別。因為國防、外交、外環什麼都有。經濟發展都要。"},{"start":8141.92,"end":8151.808,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":8161.903,"end":8170.527,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前。"},{"start":8192.116,"end":8217.283,"text":"謝謝院長我如果沒有記錯的話上一次要進行這個協商以前院長有做一個很好的提議說請新的部長來以後我們再來進行那我那時候聽了覺得有道理那我只是先程序上面問就是說因為其實王國才部長很辛苦他也要離開交通部長的位置"},{"start":8218.143,"end":8239.306,"text":"那今天適合針對這個事情進行實質的協商嗎?這個是我提出來程序上的一個問題做請教那至於說到實質上面的問題這個特別條例有沒有必要性編列的內容到底合不合理這當然是接下來實質討論的問題"},{"start":8241.946,"end":8257.66,"text":"但問題是民主進步黨的總召柯建民先生他剛剛提出了一個他自認為所謂憲政上的問題立法委員可以提案然後用特別條例來框預算嗎讓我覺得困惑的事情是在2005年10月5號的時候陳水扁執政"},{"start":8269.127,"end":8296.657,"text":"有40位立法委員共同提案石門水庫及其集水區整治特別條例就是用這個特別條例匡列的預算當初是40名立法委員提案在這個特別條例裡面處理的方式還是用特別預算的方式做這不是行政部門提的這是立法委員提的那裡面40名的立委我看"},{"start":8297.796,"end":8323.871,"text":"不僅僅是國民黨的立委．民主進步黨的立委也參與．大家全部都參與．那讓我開始有一點困惑啊．如果柯建民總召今天講的是對的．是真的．那就讓人無法理解啊．當初民主進步黨陳水扁政府執政的時候．怎麼會允許40個立委．透過特別條例去框特別預算呢．"},{"start":8324.855,"end":8342.027,"text":"政府套用科建民總召現在最喜歡掛在嘴上的。」這不是毀憲亂政嗎?這個毀憲亂政的事情可以做嗎?那也不是只有2005年才這樣做。2016年2月24號所編發的《206政災重建及紓困特別條例》,一樣啊。"},{"start":8350.834,"end":8373.541,"text":"也都是立法委員提案啊。有這個特別條例啊。那這個特別條例也框了特別的預算啊。當然,這一個特別條例所框的預算,這個特別條例最後沒有進入實質的審議啊。但當初這些委員提出這樣子特別條例的時候,我也不記得有任何人說他們毀憲亂政啊。那當然啦,就是說,這裡"},{"start":8379.699,"end":8405.806,"text":"是在進行黨團協商的場合。我向來在黨團協商的時候就各黨團針對他們的法案表示他們的看法跟他們的理由那當然沒有一個人講的是絕對正確的那這個就是一個民主的機制大家進行民主的討論跟審議如果能夠得到共識的話"},{"start":8406.866,"end":8426.699,"text":"我們就得到最大的共識．能夠順利的解決．那如果沒有辦法得到共識的話．那也沒有辦法．因為在黨團協商的這個會場．從來也就不可能去逼迫．打成什麼樣子的共識．那因為這個會牽涉到我們接下來．所剩不多的黨團協商的時間．"},{"start":8429.221,"end":8438.346,"text":"到底要怎麼分配怎麼使用的問題。」所以我才請教一下院長說我們那個我前面所提出來程序上面的事項。謝謝。"},{"start":8440.627,"end":8467.548,"text":"謝謝,特別跟各位黨團同仁報告一下,因為上一次那個王部長、高副主委已經說明他們單位的立場了,非常感謝。那這一次,請叉椅協商來針對這兩個法律案,國民黨跟民眾黨所提的修正動議,我們是針對法案的內容來進行處理,這一點特別跟黃國昭總召來報告一下。那如果黨,沒有關係,各位黨團"},{"start":8468.809,"end":8488.068,"text":"同仁如果同意的話,大家都同意的話,我們也可以請交通部這各位列席的部長們可以先行離開沒關係,我們今天就討論內容,看看各位的意見,因為如果他們已經把他們立場都表達很清楚了。院長等一下齁,沒關係沒關係。我先問一下,如果不同意沒關係。等一下齁,請問一個問題,因為剛剛有..."},{"start":8490.998,"end":8505.466,"text":"你不要急好嗎?現在這些部會首長在這邊,他們立場已經講得很清楚了,我現在徵詢大家的意見,如果大家同意,他們可以離開,如果不同意,他們就繼續待在這裡,好嗎?對不起,請吳思瑤好不好?"},{"start":8506.907,"end":8524.132,"text":"因為我們這是黨、黨團上。院長這是協商為什麼我們不可以發言?這個案子當時是交付到經濟跟交通聯席我是經濟委員會招委為什麼不能發言?我就會議許問這一點就好了。就會議許問這一點就好了嗎?為什麼我不能發言?那照理講如果是這樣子的規矩的話法案的協商應該是主審的委員會的招委才能發言"},{"start":8535.482,"end":8549.782,"text":"沒來參加過法案主條的應該是不可以發言的喔。對不對?院長。我已經當六屆的立委我從來沒有聽過說召委在黨政協商的時候針對法條召委是不可以發言的。我從來沒有聽說過。"},{"start":8552.225,"end":8560.789,"text":"那如果說各位覺得交通部跟國家發展委員會的官員繼續留下來那就可以OK好那我們就麻煩等一下我的問題嗎現在官員已當他都已經已經離職了"},{"start":8567.131,"end":8594.537,"text":"我們都能夠讓他留下來：來表示一些意見：他們很樂意。先任的召委,立法委員不能在這裡。這是什麼邏輯啊?韓委員,你就不要去解。你每次都要競表不同意。剛才那個案子也是一樣。蔡英文要留下來,不行。競表不同意。大家要執求對決啊。要講得清楚。你剛才對我的挑戰,我現在就回答你。"},{"start":8595.95,"end":8615.536,"text":"二、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院長"},{"start":8618.057,"end":8643.85,"text":"運營很嚴重．無處以不欣．所以由當地的立法委員．或是朝委都講說．這個應該要處理．所以在行政部門同意底下．才去弄這個特別條例．是有這個因緣．那時候是這樣的因緣．以後來講的歷史當中都沒有．所以我們要講清楚．你弄一個特別條例．弄幾個特別條例．要兩兆．這個東西還得了．"},{"start":8645.478,"end":8671.708,"text":"是不是這樣?你們現在在做這部魔術。沒有特別條例。特別條例存在,怎麼沒有特別條例?當然是特別預算啦。你說沒有啦,我只是叫你們去編列預算。你強制行政部去編列預算,用法條去編列預算,當然是違反前期婚禮原則。這個施政自明嘛。但是這樣還在那邊詭辯。你是法學博士耶。"},{"start":8673.021,"end":8688.122,"text":"所以今天我們要把很多問題談清楚明天要怎麼表決我們沒有意見但是立場要講清楚沒有所謂的稍微在這裡不能講話新任官員可以留下來這是什麼立法院"},{"start":8690.047,"end":8716.329,"text":"謝謝柯總召我發言。接下來我要針對邱英英委員所提的兩個問題。因為我們本來上一次已經協商過本案環島高鐵是由楊秋英委員召集黨團協商、送這個本案法案及名稱及所有條文均保留,送請院長來召集協商。這是我們今天進入這個條文討論的原始來由。第二,您所提的為什麼召委不能發言的確是一個好問題。"},{"start":8717.29,"end":8731.725,"text":"的確是一個好問題,但是我們前面,前不久的時候曾經各個黨團都徵詢大家的意見,是黨團三長尉當然代表,可是這段時間柯建民總統又很強硬。"},{"start":8733.68,"end":8752.21,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前．於新任"},{"start":8753.01,"end":8776.541,"text":"就三黨都同意有召委來．或者跟地區建設有關的．那些委員力、權益有關的．這些委員可以列席．那三黨都同一團可以．另外我主席覺得．要請委員來列席的時候．要經過三個黨團都同意．那這些委員非常歡迎．這是我們暫時妥協的．這是暫時的協議措施．不是永遠這樣的．所以說．從頭到尾到這個問題沒有講清楚．院長你要瞭解你的質問．"},{"start":8781.294,"end":8787.431,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":8791.035,"end":8814.87,"text":"那個國民黨團跟民眾黨團是不是要表達一件如果說進入法案審查的話召集委員以後就列為主席我還是要講一下我覺得這個不合理啦經濟委員會的召委有兩席楊全英委員沒有來那我關心這個案子我來參與然後你不讓我發言你不讓我參加我覺得這個也很奇怪嘛"},{"start":8816.391,"end":8843.316,"text":"每一個召委對於自己的排案委員會裡頭的案子的審查我們都必須要慎重過去立法院是委員會中心主義但是現在的立法院不一樣現在是只要三個人或者是你們兩個黨隨意要抽出禁負二讀就抽出禁負二讀隨意要表決就表決隨意要阻擋法案就阻擋法案"},{"start":8844.642,"end":8849.606,"text":"救人的法案都可以擋,民進黨牌的法案就說是你們國民黨牌的。」"},{"start":8850.842,"end":8876.296,"text":"現在都是如你們的意耶,但是你們有沒有想過啊,立法院一百一十三席委員不是只有你們六個才是立委耶,大家都是立法委員,大家對於法案的關心程度,過去我從來沒有看過一個院長是可以阻止委員會的委員或者是召委參與法案協商不准他講話的,你告訴我是依照哪一條?"},{"start":8877.417,"end":8880.711,"text":"立法委員職權行使法哪一條有這樣規定"},{"start":8884.794,"end":8907.348,"text":"這個不是復世王朝復世王朝所訂下的規範喔復世王朝訂下的規範喔絕對不是喔我當這麼久的立法委員沒有看過像你們這麼阿拔的處理模式協商不是這樣進行的啊好謝謝你的好接下來問其總召請發言"},{"start":8911.603,"end":8940.651,"text":"我想他們兩位表達邱委員列行的事情放這裡請我覺得韓院長真的很委屈在立法院不管是委員會也好主席在主持議事大家都要照主席的主持之下"},{"start":8941.974,"end":8970.094,"text":"立法院的議事規則來進行．要發言都有一定的順序跟程序．在院會也都是一樣．但是唯獨在草野協商．這也是當時民進黨強烈要求．不是山長不可以進來．而且嚴重恐．當場警告黃國昌總召．說你們不要鬧人來喔．要鬧人來大家來鬧喔．所以"},{"start":8971.092,"end":8998.268,"text":"才經由科總召強烈要求之下協商只有黨團上場才能進來不能有其他人進來這個上協商都是有全程錄影的都有全程錄影的經由科總召強烈表達之後民眾黨兩位立委離開會場然後大家進行協商確定以後的遊戲規則就是這樣"},{"start":9000.936,"end":9025.018,"text":"我想我們就要再強調一次,我們既然大家一致作成的決議,我們應該叫做決議總。因為國會,一個國會是要有制度的,我們一直在強調就是制度。我剛剛也很高興聽到有所謂委員會中心主義,委員會中心主義我們真的很感動。"},{"start":9027.212,"end":9045.956,"text":"這個執政黨立委會講出的幾句話出來我上次聽到比較正常的人講話既然是委員會中心主義那為什麼委員會已經討論完環島高鐵委員會沒有討論嗎?大家都清楚的表達了意見所有的詢答都詢答完畢詢答完畢之後"},{"start":9055.373,"end":9080.427,"text":"召委又召集協商。」環島高鐵就是楊瓊英委員召集協商。然後民進黨不到,一席都沒有到。然後經由委員會已經討論完,再經由召委召集協商,然後才建請韓院長來再一次的協商。"},{"start":9082.337,"end":9103.719,"text":"這個程序都非常清楚也非常完備我們不了解說在立法院所有的議程都是錄音錄影我還要喚醒大家的記憶嗎所以我們一直在這裡強調那個主席啊會場要有制度"},{"start":9107.267,"end":9125.849,"text":"哪有在這裡又在人身攻擊又不是山長又跑到這裡做人身攻擊我們現在覺得很奇怪為什麼的國會制度的建立有這麼困難大家都照現行的規則來走嘛沒有規則大家協議好是怎麼樣就照協議走嘛"},{"start":9127.557,"end":9155.124,"text":"有條例照條例,沒有條例照慣例,沒有慣例我們照協商,協商出來,就是這樣,我們要照走嘛。我覺得院長,你要守住,院長,你一定要守住你的制度面,不要因為人家刻意的挑戰而不斷犧牲,而不斷的犧牲遵守規則的人,遵守規則的人是應該要被尊重的。"},{"start":9156.408,"end":9170.869,"text":"那個我麻煩請黃國昌總召。我要當時說以後列席的這些委員法案的這個召集委員本來是第五案下一案才要討論現在被被迫往前提了"},{"start":9171.65,"end":9197.92,"text":"那,我們大概在一個月前的朝野協商,我們曾經講過黨團三長列席,如果要有,呃,召集委員列席的話,經過三個黨團同意,那是不是以後所有類似這種法案也好,預算也好,只要召集委員就變成當然列席代表?我是這個,我們先確定這一點,這一點是非常關鍵的。請黃國昌總召你請表示意見,好嗎?呃,先生院長喔,呃,第一個,"},{"start":9199.4,"end":9224.725,"text":"我先講程序上面的事情其實在這個協商現場我好幾次在程序上面有跟院長報告基於對院長的尊重您在主持會議的過程當中即使在這個過程裡面有一些讓人覺得為什麼有人可以任意的按麥克風發言你都不制止"},{"start":9226.074,"end":9253.871,"text":"讓人沒有辦法接受為什麼有人要守規矩有人可以不用守規矩甚至連你在講話的時候他喜歡按麥克風講話就講話所以我希望能夠再釐清一次我們現在在進行黨團協商的基本規矩是什麼是當別人講話的時候要按麥克風講話都可以甚至你在主持會議的時候"},{"start":9255.649,"end":9284.29,"text":"要按麥克風講話也可以是每一個人都可以還是每一個人都不可以還是只有特定的人可以其他的人不可以對不起喔我要講很嚴肅的事情這一個規則這一個規則可能要請院長告訴所有黨團協商的代表我們應該要遵守的規矩到底是什麼第二個"},{"start":9287.48,"end":9302.612,"text":"黨團協商．時只有黨團的三長可以到場。」這個是當初柯建民站出來抗議他要求的。您做了這樣的才是,我們大家都遵守了。"},{"start":9303.584,"end":9330.412,"text":"我們大家都遵守了。」今天要變更這樣子的規則不是不行就把規則講清楚而且要注意程序上的事為什麼我說要注意程序上的事如果我們今天要建立一個新的規則譬如說法律案的時候法律案的時候那哪一些委員適合再來參加黨團協商例如"},{"start":9331.961,"end":9354.012,"text":"當初這個法案負責主審的召集委員那我們就應該要把這個規則讓那個召集委員知道那否則的話會形成一個很奇怪的狀況我們今天突然又變更了規則那其他可能受這個規則所影響的利害關係人都不知道這樣子的話我覺得對他們"},{"start":9358.599,"end":9380.952,"text":"並不公平。」我的意思是說要變更在這個會期我們一開始說這樣的只有黨團三長可以參加黨團會議要變更這個規則在特定議案的時候譬如說其實您上一次啦我記得院長你在召集黨團協商的時候你也很努力的試圖"},{"start":9382.93,"end":9402.917,"text":"要把這個規則給定出來,譬如說法律案的時候還可以邀請誰來?預算案的時候還可以邀請誰來?我記得很清楚有一次黨團協商的時候你真的很努力的試圖要建立這個規則但是那一次的協商針對這個規則試圖的建立就無疾而終嘛"},{"start":9407.15,"end":9426.554,"text":"就無疾而終．因為你在試圖要建立這個規則尋求大家意見的時候中間不斷的被打斷導致這個規則沒有辦法建立起來所以拉回來談回復您剛剛所垂詢的事情要針對法律案要針對預算案"},{"start":9428.257,"end":9438.366,"text":"除了黨團三長以外還可以邀哪一些委員或哪一些委員他們有意見可以來參與我們都抱持開放的心胸可以來討論"},{"start":9439.993,"end":9463.756,"text":"但這個規則定了以後就應該要讓各個黨團都知道這個遊戲規則而在這個新的遊戲規則下面我們以後的會議才能夠進行要不然我們今天突然在這裡變更了一個新的規則其他的人都不知道只有到場的人知道"},{"start":9464.554,"end":9473.834,"text":"那這樣對於到場沒有到場而沒有受到這個規則變更通知的委員而言恐怕不是很公平以上"},{"start":9475.253,"end":9498.487,"text":"我想把前次要徵詢各位三個黨團的幹部的這個我所草寧的一個協商代表我想再唸一次給大家聽一下我知道大家很急著發言稍微等一下就是預算案協商時國民黨黨團五人民進黨黨團五人台灣民眾黨黨團四人以上人數是包含黨團三長"},{"start":9500.248,"end":9521.18,"text":"第二、至於其他議案．除法案審查報告所列的院會說明人．可參加院長朝野協商外．如果各黨團有增加其他委員參加的必要．經過各黨團都同意．我們就允許增加委員列席參與協商．這是我們在上上次朝野協商"},{"start":9521.98,"end":9537.262,"text":"的時候我嘗試的把它唸出來希望獲得各黨團的同意結果那一天因為開會太零散結果這個案子沒有通過所以我再重新也就是黃國昌總召你剛剛所提出來上一次我嘗試性的通過這個吳世耀委員我知道你舉手好請發言"},{"start":9539.479,"end":9558.187,"text":"院長,我非常非常非常地尊重在場的每一位。吳斯瑤我雖然年紀比較輕,但我的立委資歷沒有比較少。我是三屆的立法委員,我要沉重地跟院長報告。我往往是在您主持的協商會議上舉手舉最久,手舉得最挺,然後您最常略過我。"},{"start":9558.907,"end":9584.137,"text":"今天就好幾次我希望以後不要再這樣好嗎我也是一個立法委員我是民進黨黨團的幹事長不要再刻意的略過我我首先要在此說明第二個我個人是傾向不認同剛剛院長所說的您試圖做的那樣子的一個協商決議我要說院長您真是辛苦跟難為了"},{"start":9586.67,"end":9608.462,"text":"把很簡單的事情被迫要讓它復雜化的去處理．把一個主持協商可以很靈活很彈性的機制．被迫綁得死死的．受制於在場的黨邊們．我不要說是哪幾位黨邊們．主持協商就是院長的權限"},{"start":9609.912,"end":9628.94,"text":"按照過去立法院運作數十年來,從來沒有任何一個院長會在這裡因為有其他的委員列席,要去請問其他的黨編他可以留或可以走,他可以發言或不可以發言,從來沒有發生過。我替韓院長您抱屈啊。」"},{"start":9630.103,"end":9658.164,"text":"所以從剛剛黃國昌總召說如果要新上路一個新的機制要大家同意您的言下之意是說今天為什麼有李昆澤召委跟邱毅寅召委坐在這好像這個制度還沒有講好其他委員不知道所以不公平我要在這裡還原其實在上一次的協商甚至上上次的協商不管是吳思堯、莊瑞雄或是柯建民總長我們都很試圖的去要建立起一個爭取法案或預算協商的時候"},{"start":9658.684,"end":9676.318,"text":"其他相關的委員都能夠列席。我們講了N次只是不被理會、不被重視、不被處理。所以才會限縮在現在韓院長很辛苦的院長的主持的權力真的大大的被弱化了。今天誰在場可以講話或是誰必須離席還要讓院長貴為立法院院長要請問副總召可以嗎?黃總召可以嗎?"},{"start":9685.825,"end":9702.912,"text":"我真的要替韓院長覺得我要替您抱屈啊您有至高無上的國會議長的主持權利啊好講回來剛剛您說的為什麼我並不認同要限縮人員您是用人員的方式在看待未來協商出席的代表"},{"start":9703.852,"end":9720.577,"text":"我們要很彈性跟很負責任的去面對每一個議案。議案是活的。政策是活的。您剛剛的說法就是五個五個四個和預算的那個。那是用人數在看待是一個僵化的制度。我要再次說"},{"start":9722.526,"end":9749.449,"text":"每一個議案關切的立委不同有些議案可能來的委員也不太有人關切坦白說有的議案是大家百家爭鳴基於重要的公共建設如果您開放了像環島高鐵也好今天的花東快速道路也好我相信有非常多的立委部分黨派都想來關心要看議案的本質本身"},{"start":9750.376,"end":9775.932,"text":"所以過去從王金平．從蘇家璇到游錫堃院長主持的協商會長．是大家都能夠充分的Welcome、Open．來接受大家來到這裡參與意見．因為朝野協商由院長主持的朝野協商．就是任何一個議案．想方設法匯聚最終的朝野共識．最重要的場域．而不是過水"},{"start":9780.427,"end":9789.957,"text":"最終表決前的最終政策的辯論需要多元的參與,需要朝野的立委共同來成就。所以我不認同筐死的人數,以後每一個黨團為了五個人,誰可以來誰不可以來,那嫁沒人嫁麻煩。"},{"start":9800.939,"end":9829.249,"text":"所以講回來簡單的事情不要複雜化可以靈活彈性主持意識的權限也不需要自己受制於部分的黨邊而您剛剛所試圖做出來的那個決議是完全不可行我要必須這樣說以我九年多的國會資歷來說那再一次回顧不要凡事都嫁禍給柯建民總召"},{"start":9830.549,"end":9834.453,"text":"什麼時候朝野的委員們都聽柯總召的話嗎?"},{"start":9836.01,"end":9855.584,"text":"科建民總召上一次針對民眾黨在第一次本屆期第一次的朝野協商由陳昭之立委來到現場如果來到現場是好好的就事論事沒有問題Must welcome可是那一天院長您也記憶猶新陳昭之委員來到現場是直接來針對科建民委員總召"},{"start":9861.556,"end":9866.301,"text":"鄉下針對他投錯票的事情來這裡找柯建民總召算賬。」"},{"start":9868.12,"end":9893.814,"text":"那是一個非常失禮、失態、不合宜的來到朝野協商是要來找人算賬所以在那一天的場域柯建民總召才說這種程序性針對那天的議題是要不要排時安專報開議日是哪一天他完全是落在議事運作的程序性的範疇就像剛剛您主持的這個會期要延會到什麼時候"},{"start":9896.249,"end":9905.264,"text":"這種程序性三長來代理。」我想大家是沒有意見的。但是非程序性的就是議案。議案包括法律案、預算案。"},{"start":9906.789,"end":9930.757,"text":"都不應當強制的去受限。」院長真的要懇求您要聽進去,因為這是您的權限。如果限縮了人數、限縮了人員,我想那個真的不利於一個民主多元的國會、協商的討論。好,所以現在在請教程序上,現在是直接進入那個人數的那個協商,對不對?還沒有進入花東快跟高鐵,對不對?"},{"start":9933.018,"end":9955.735,"text":"是不是先進入那個程序．如果花東塊稍後再進入實質．我還有很多的內容要發言．那我的認知是．現在好像已經進入．協調這個協商的出席的代表．如果這樣我們先就這個議題．來彙聚共識。沒有,我們進入．我們已經進入花東塊．這個開始討論了．那現在．那如果這樣我可以繼續．那我可以．那沒關係．那我還沒有發言．"},{"start":9960.538,"end":9983.091,"text":"那我可以拿腳嗎?那環島高我要在這裏發言。謝謝,謝謝院長還有各位家長的學生代表。院長我是這樣看的,朝野協商的時候啊,氣氛不好啊,大家都會想盡一些理由啊,各黨都一樣,這個人性嘛,柯總統講了一句話,也不會"},{"start":9984.639,"end":10005.978,"text":"以後就變成立法院的一個常態。」那動不動呢,就再回復到,阿坤同志你講過三個。其實我那天也跟院長講,當時在講,其實大家講的是在講程序,但各黨有不同的意見,各自去做一個解讀。我以我們過去在當台北市議員的經驗,在朝野協商的時候,"},{"start":10009.372,"end":10036.297,"text":"那個不是只有三張啊每一個人對他地方建設他有關心的他就是可以去啊那協商的當然但在議長尤其你現在是國會議長就是協助嘛都盡可能的就行政部門沒有困難的啊趕快趕快趕快趕快甚至於啊有對行政部門有太多要呃有人凍結有人要刪除的部分看有沒有辦法都盡量啊就大家達成一個和諧調和頂賴嘛啊"},{"start":10040.538,"end":10063.847,"text":"如果說在整個重大預算碰到有凍結．接下來有預算協商．一定很多人要關心地方建設．也許你院長你很希望去幫其他的縣市．把它推一把．不管是各黨不同政黨的人．但是你說讓那些人不能到場．也都很奇怪．我甚至要講．"},{"start":10066.466,"end":10086.743,"text":"當主席的本來就是權力很大你那個叫做刻意尊重但是你那個尊重的效果的結果呢導致就是各黨拿這個來在做攻防沒完沒了啦我真的我就進入實質啊所以我的意思是說院長你那個部分真的要再考慮啦好還沒講我要開始囉要開始就講這個囉"},{"start":10089.053,"end":10102.763,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前"},{"start":10108.607,"end":10112.831,"text":"我們不反對,只是針對你用這樣的一個方式,我們是不贊成的。但是呢,我也要幫楊耀講一下,你也紅兜,你只有煩惱而已,不過你也替楊耀講一下,你以為你的權力那麼大,我們就這樣給他衝一下,煩惱、招損你到澎湖,怎麼又洗回來,這樣全國都有。根本麻煩,對,還有陳學生,那是比較很淡薄的。民眾黨會說那是財政紀律的問題。"},{"start":10136.77,"end":10162.441,"text":"所以我的意思就是說重大建設大家各政黨我們都可以開心的來做但是呢對於提出的一個方式我對這個就有意見了我真的就有意見了比如說啊你任何一個地方政府的議會也不會去決議說啊你那個敬老津貼你這個台北市政府你就要給我一個月花六千台北市議會做這樣的一個決議台北市政府"},{"start":10165.902,"end":10189.278,"text":"不管各黨．哪一個人當市長．他都不會去就範了。」那我們今天又到最後你這個條文裡面我要提出你的最荒謬我最不能認同的地方就是可行性評估到最後立法院來做一個審議我們立法委員哪有這樣的一個工程的一個背景然後你又本來是十年你現在把它弄成說你十二年你要去完成"},{"start":10191.094,"end":10197.339,"text":"這個天啊,我們屏東到現在,我們都已經進入了綜合規劃了。我們也不敢去奢望12年就去完成了。你這個叫做環島,環島。不然我聽到你那個紅花蓮到台東,又到屏東,整個都空了,我聽到是送了,你知道嗎?所以你那個應該改一下。"},{"start":10215.914,"end":10222.277,"text":"這個環島高鐵是從屏東開始移到台東到華聯,但是我還是堅持,逐案去做一個推動,這是國家建設。哪一天我們立法院去決議,我們再來花個二十兆,再來弄一個環海的高鐵,那個更快,做起來更爽,那我們也不叫高鐵,那叫做慈福列車,全國人爽死了,這個如果有這種異想天開的案的話,我們也希望國民黨來支持一下。"},{"start":10244.086,"end":10267.867,"text":"拜選的人就是去監督當選的人．去落實他的政見．而不是拜選的人透過政黨說我們來聯合．我們來幫執政黨來開支票．聽也不要聽過．大家善思啦。謝謝莊學雄委員兩位登記發言委員等一下會依序發言現在我們請秘書小姐來念一下我知道等一下我們"},{"start":10270.632,"end":10281.684,"text":"正式請秘書小姐來念這個環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案修正動議對照表請宣讀法案名稱。法案名稱環島高速鐵路建設條例草案。"},{"start":10286.836,"end":10312.19,"text":"請宣讀第一條。一條,為推動環島高速鐵路建設﹐發展大眾公共運輸﹐平衡區域發展﹐促進觀光產業﹐增進民眾福祉﹐特制定本條例﹐本條例為規定者﹐適用其他法律之規定。好,請柯建民總召發言。好,謝謝。院長,你現在講的話,請大家平心靜靜聽。有一句話叫騙人騙局。"},{"start":10315.086,"end":10318.817,"text":"就做了對面的副總召。他說這個在委員會充分討論。"},{"start":10320.373,"end":10347.978,"text":"只委員會只大一套位移：就新來以後就進入主角,主角是三分鐘出去的。朝野鄉衣服都是,委員會朝野鄉,大家都知道,這個委員會朝野鄉不會有結論的嘛。所以我們沒有去,連黃國昌也沒有去。然後呢,那就往上勾水來,這也要表決。問題,這不是這樣的,你要講實情,不要騙人騙局。至於何孟愷,"},{"start":10350.748,"end":10378.718,"text":"我講話紅白插話我也算了沒有關係我都沒有問題但是呢我要跟黃國昌委員你不要見數不見零你一直迴避核心事項都回答然後一直用程序性問題在講說這個有人插話怎麼樣剛才是我在講話院長把我插話什麼院長講話我把他插話的都有啊你一直在你一直在上面去講話"},{"start":10381.16,"end":10396.47,"text":"請問．請你張開眼睛．凡是這個議場裏面．不是立法委員有多少人．八、九十個人．可以容納不下兩個立法委員．來這裡呈交會議．這什麼邏輯．過去有這樣嗎．你不要．見識不見人．你能夠再騙人．然後你以為你這樣在這裡講的話．所有人都相信你講的話．"},{"start":10407.403,"end":10420.973,"text":"大家要憑良心講話你沒有來過你當過黨編的人你曾經在你2016到2022年的時候朝野協商是蘇貞昌蘇貞昌院長讓你在朝野協商上面撥一個鐘頭給他冒官員把他變成知情撥兩個鐘頭給國民黨"},{"start":10429.406,"end":10455.496,"text":"這是要融為下去。然後你今天要分歧,航線一氣,趕快把這個弄完,弄走過去。既然你講出沒有良心的話,你故意常常在講委會中心主義,要好好混沌。二、因為我回去選舉的時候,你去攻擊我秘書協商,那個制度是誰害的?那個是立法院制度,好像我在做什麼壞事。"},{"start":10456.912,"end":10470.555,"text":"然後說立法院要廢除超越協商,都是你們講的,大家要來辯論今天有談話的空間嗎?今天連理性談話的空間都沒有。你既然坐在這裡做了這個新任理責,黃國昌委員,都不想要你。我們要講真實的話。立法院這裡面,房間裡面,整八九十個人在這裡,立法院不能坐在這裡,不能講話。所以下來之前,"},{"start":10488.154,"end":10491.955,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告及本院配合延會相關事宜。」相關事宜。"},{"start":10513.934,"end":10542.362,"text":"請找出一次你所看到的查到資料裏面的先進三個人再來跟我講話所以不要這樣詭辯然後都聲中即是閃躲然後用個小點然後再無限放大好像你是正義的使者何來正義使者你要怎麼樣面對你的選民我都沒意見請你面對你的良心請面對你是一個立法委員這比較重要吧"},{"start":10544.657,"end":10550.104,"text":"謝謝,我們請洪孟楷委員發言．林思敏委員請準備．吳世耀委員請準備第二位。說實在,院長您辛苦了。我剛比洪孟楷委員早舉手,李昆澤委員舉很久了耶。"},{"start":10565.365,"end":10574.089,"text":"同樣的立委,幹部沒有比較大,好不好?大家一樣都是立委。大家都互相尊重,我們剛剛舉手舉很久了啊,為什麼院長不讓我們發言呢?大家都互相尊重嘛。我們也是黨團啊。我們也是黨團啊,院長。"},{"start":10586.115,"end":10611.355,"text":"院長,這沒有什麼修正。我警告韓院長。韓院長,您要把自己做大,不要把自己做小了。過去的院長沒有像您做這麼小的。好不好?黃孟卡委員。我先舉手,我先講話好不好?尊重一下。剛剛院長指示民進黨團總召,那現在是不是山長這邊在做發言?那院長已經指示了,我們要尊重院長。"},{"start":10612.631,"end":10618.474,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":10632.762,"end":10660.13,"text":"之前我第十屆進來之後,尤錫堃院長我們也尊重,尤錫堃院長是在發言的時候,只限制三個人可以參加,尤院長也沒有限制只有三個人可以參加,然後你們現在要求韓院長只有三個人可以參加,這個韓院長我希望你能夠把院長這個位置做大,不要把院長做小了,你不要變成富士王朝的韓小弟啊。"},{"start":10661.35,"end":10663.411,"text":"副市王朝的韓小弟：。．副市王朝的韓小弟．。"},{"start":10687.061,"end":10714.114,"text":"中、台、中國用語叫水平,台灣用語叫水準。」誰沒有水平啊,動不動就丟手機,拍桌,副總召好大喔,只有黃國昌會怕啦,我們其他人是沒在怕的啦,只有黃國昌喜歡被你摸摸頭啦。又丟手機了,廣大的公民朋友都看到了,副總召的手機不曉得哪個牌子喔,好耐摔喔。"},{"start":11555.341,"end":11577.782,"text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部也謝謝各位列席的官員那下一次朝一協商我們發開會通知的時候各位黨團幹部都在這裡我們會直接在針對法案的討論部分我們會直接把這些召集委員的名字列上去也歡迎大家一起來參加用這種方式之後我們就把我們第一次"},{"start":11578.903,"end":11603.002,"text":"整個這個草野協商的標準．以及訂出來那個準則．我們能夠延續下去．下一次開始發草野協商的報告．那個通知書的開會通知的時候．我們就直接把各招委都列進去．作為當然代表好不好我想先因為佛德邱盈跟李委員很著急．也很熱情好不好謝謝現在請柯建民總召我可以稱讚一下韓院長嗎謝謝院長的英明謝謝這樣啦"},{"start":11608.7,"end":11632.494,"text":"我講一個大家要解決問題的方法啦。你來學這種都有原因的啦。你來模仿這是朝野工房一定的。哪一個人講對講錯,這是直播的。選民自由公端好不好。立法院30年來的遊戲規則很清楚。但是我們破完那個遊戲規則的時候,這個衝擊很大。"},{"start":11635.834,"end":11655.36,"text":"有關於這個臺北協商有關法案預算幾個人可以參加,那我們定一個時間專門來討論這個事情。否則的話立法院後面已經開始進入深水區,沒有一個走得動了,沒有走得動。我們把它"},{"start":11656.48,"end":11681.277,"text":"在一個憲政慣例以下行之三十年的事情拿出來討論以前就可以,現在為什麼不可以,要講清楚然後回去過後講清楚我要講的這是立法院一個最後的防線也是韓院長你也很清楚院長你存在就是要維持中立至於兩個法案已經講了兩次了"},{"start":11683.24,"end":11710.717,"text":"再怎麼樣,我們的邏輯性理念,就是在新任體下,前立分立原則底下來看待這個事情。所以有關條文的內容,包括立一個法,立一個特別法,叫行政院去編列一算,這麼眼光裡都是違憲。但是我講違憲,他也不聽得下去,都聽不下去。本案,這兩案,條文甚少。"},{"start":11712.168,"end":11731.621,"text":"都十條以內：我們今天就講清楚因為明天院會要怎麼進行大家心裡有個底沒有陶宇香簽名的東西院會實難進行一定發生史上最大嚴重的衝突這也不樂見我想院長也不樂見"},{"start":11732.782,"end":11759.394,"text":"新的國會大家謀和照這段時間重新謀和的時候也到一個臨界點了必須冷靜下來討論所以我底下繼續建議反正這兩個法案我們已經討論兩次花了相當多的時間我們至少程序把它走完第一條怎麼樣稍微講一下我們還是反對那些保留第二條怎麼保留"},{"start":11761.058,"end":11781.05,"text":"第二法案也是一樣都是走完因為差不多該講的話已經在兩輪裡面都講很清楚了至少這個陳毓新的問題保留以後大家再親稍微想結論明天宴會我們只會處理這兩個案子因為也經過中院的討論"},{"start":11782.691,"end":11791.645,"text":"那就是說換言之就是說我們要簽一個草原協商結論就是三十年來就是如此大於討厭幾個人"},{"start":11793.98,"end":11818.037,"text":"一條沒一條幾個人講好明天就繼續發言發言以後表決反正四年內我們沒有一個表決會贏的我認定這個是事實但是呢要把話講清楚就好了這是我們民主能夠在這裡實現這是我比較得膽的建議大家那今天我要講的就是說"},{"start":11819.642,"end":11844.394,"text":"凡是沒有經過朝野協商：沒有經過院長組織的朝野協商：乃至於院會的發言的成績：在法院裡面：絕對不能破壞：否則我會就死亡了。這是我今天要講的道理。但是呢,我會"},{"start":11846.275,"end":11862.763,"text":"講這些話是今天大家要解決,解決這個問題。假如大家沒有意見的話,我們就開始一條一條來,沒有關係,也不要浪費太多時間。最後,先一個朝野詳情,每一條,所以大一條問幾個人,這才是重點,每一條問幾個人。"},{"start":11864.983,"end":11887.341,"text":"而引用一個案例給大家聽。2016我們執政以後,前面執政。2016我們通過什麼?不當黨產。這是我們衝突喔。不當黨產。相信黃國昌委員也在場。黃國昌委員我不知道你怎麼做理由。那時候在議會怎麼處理?在議會是每一條發言。"},{"start":11889.907,"end":11900.835,"text":"讓國民黨歡迎陰庭表決書,表決就完表決。我們要做這個程序。我們不會因為我們國會過半,全部給一下什麼,紅茶不能來講話。"},{"start":11902.318,"end":11911.008,"text":"二零一七促進轉型生育條例。也是這樣。大家說我罵微信罵來罵去,但是到最後一條一條表決。二零一八的農田水利費收歸國有,亦乎如此。"},{"start":11921.653,"end":11939.261,"text":"二、依舊政政黨案法也是一樣,就是我們國會都是說,但是我們瞭解這個程序要讓每一個人想法講完以後再表決。沒有所謂不協商、不發言,沒有查理商或是因為沒有發言,就進入了一個強制表決,黑正式。"},{"start":11940.061,"end":11949.044,"text":"國民黨團．建請院會作成決議．以新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．以新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．以新任行政院院長施政方針報告前。"},{"start":11969.898,"end":11971.5,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．請公決案。」"},{"start":11986.059,"end":12007.731,"text":"第一個這個本質上我們認為用立法委員提條例然後要求編預算的這個做法確實在權力運作在憲法的運作層次上他是產生了漢格的我們是立法委員一定要依法行政所以我們都很清楚預算的整個制度是什麼預算籌編的權限是行政權"},{"start":12010.973,"end":12016.938,"text":"院會作成決議：於新院會作成決議：於新院會作成決議：於新院會作成決議：於新院會作成決議：於新院會作成決議：於新院會作成決議：於新院會作成決議：於新院會作成決議：於"},{"start":12035.675,"end":12059.103,"text":"第二個講到實質的層面因為我們是立法委員．法規我一定要請大家我們要依法行政在依預算來編列預算的過程我們不能夠跳過交通的專業跟財務試算他依據的法規是政府公共建設計劃先期作業實施要點這個是所有的重大的建設都需要試用的程序"},{"start":12060.023,"end":12082.822,"text":"第二個法規就是中央政府中程計劃預算編制辦法。這樣一個預算的編制辦法也就是財務的部分一定要能夠遵循。我現在手上拿的這兩個,一個是有關交通建設相關的程序是不能夠略過的。第二個是中長程計劃的預算編轉也有一定的法定期程。"},{"start":12083.582,"end":12100.118,"text":"但是回到今天由副委員所提的這兩個法案都沒有這些程序如果大家願意看一下我今天特別把我能夠收集到的重要的交通建設所有的從可行性評估到綜合規劃到環評的計劃到預算的編轉我試圖拿個基本來給大家看看"},{"start":12107.405,"end":12129.286,"text":"現在在審議環島高鐵請大家可以久過來久過來我手上這一本就是民國七十六年開始針對現在的高鐵所進行的可行性評估這一本是歷史文件我去國會圖書館借的七十六年開始有這本可行性評估之後才會進入綜合規劃就是可行性評估確認yes"},{"start":12130.327,"end":12149.619,"text":"可以做．才開始進入綜合規劃基本設計、細部設計．而我手上的這個．就是我們的現行的高鐵．後續的期末報告、工程建設計畫．還有英文版．因為我們要跟國外的團隊合作．這是英文版。"},{"start":12151.011,"end":12166.52,"text":"這是高鐵我手上這邊還有副委員最關心的花東安全回家的路手上這個是蘇花改的可行性評估通過了可行性評估之後才會有工程規劃的報告書在這裡"},{"start":12169.13,"end":12196.308,"text":"然後他還要有環評的說明書每一本我都把它帶來最近剛通過的蘇花安我們要給花東負責任的安全的交通就是蘇花安的可行性評估通過之後才會有各項的計畫這個是現在剛被通過的蘇花安當然他不能略過的是環評在這邊"},{"start":12199.045,"end":12225.554,"text":"大家可以看看後面的桌上那幾個箱子都是我搬過來的針對現行的高鐵以及蘇花改蘇花安所有的從可行性評估到綜合規劃西部計畫到最後的預算編轉到期末報告我全部都帶過來為什麼這是行政權限因為行政團隊才有這樣的專業"},{"start":12229.025,"end":12232.028,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前。"},{"start":12253.666,"end":12261.271,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任"},{"start":12281.958,"end":12304.57,"text":"蘇花快改一改填一填數字改一改從十年改成十二年把特別預算改成公務預算這樣子就可以遂行的這是非常慎重的時刻我們要經得起交通安全專業評估的考驗這才是負責任的給國人最好的建設"},{"start":12305.851,"end":12331.505,"text":"所以我對於等一下的條文我真的都覺得這不是立法權能夠進行的但是我敬佩我們立法委員願意為地方的建設爭取最好最大的可能這是我們的建議權我予以尊重我最後要回應一件事黃國昌總召您剛提的兩個案例我一定要清楚回應"},{"start":12333.123,"end":12357.092,"text":"看待議題政策不能夠去脈絡化,不能夠見數不見零。」黃國昌總召剛剛說,也有過去在兩千零五年有跨黨派的立委,桃園的立委提出石門水庫及水區整治特別條例。為什麼二零零五年可以呢?今年二零二四年復婚期就不可以呢?我來回答您。"},{"start":12358.032,"end":12386.037,"text":"二零零五年的時空背景．是由行政院先行提出沉水扁執政任內．行政院先行提出一個水患治理特別條例．由行政權宣發動了一個特別條例．以及特別預算的編轉．然後為了讓桃園地區的委員們．能夠針對他們關心的石門水庫．特別有一個他們關切的條例．所以是在朝野"},{"start":12387.097,"end":12409.052,"text":"共議同意之下讓委員提這個案但是他是循著行政院的水患治理特別條例而來這是第一個案例所以黃國昌委員您說錯了不要這樣去脈絡化去帶錯的風向第二個您提零二零六政災條例也有立委提案沒有錯臺南的立委關心零二零六的政災重建但是"},{"start":12415.854,"end":12442.334,"text":"委員提案是為了彰顯對於選區的建設重建的重視。這個議案也因為漢革了行政權而且行政院地方政府都可以依據已經上路的災害防救法可以進行所有的震災相關重建的工作。因此零二零六震災條例提案的立委並沒有"},{"start":12445.06,"end":12470.262,"text":"委員會審查,他是一個象徵性。」所以這也會回應到為什麼現在行政院對於零四零三的花蓮的重建是以行政院的方案已經編列高達三千億也已經在執行的方式來進行而不需要特別立法因為九二一之前沒有災害防救法那個時候才進行一個九二一震災的條例的立法"},{"start":12471.062,"end":12492.203,"text":"當我們在九二一之後有了災害防救法的建制所有的政策重建九一災害防救法的體力體制去進行我必須花時間回應這些副總召不好意思那讓您覺得時間可能比較急促好請不要催促我我也是一個立法委員我今天這麼認真的拿了這麼多的資料"},{"start":12494.125,"end":12518.495,"text":"請不要發出怪異的聲音。我拿出這麼多負責任的資料就是要告訴大家我們支持交通建設但是有行政該做的事也有行政才能做好的事立委有立委的職責我們是監督建議權然後讓整個工程有地方民意的匯入但不代表立法權可以取代行政權"},{"start":12519.375,"end":12545.066,"text":"所以請大家看看,立法院有可能進行這樣的交通專業的可行性評估嗎?我們能夠由立委來做環境影響評估嗎?我們可能由立委來做專業的交通的各項規劃嗎?這是行政的權限。我們支持交通建設,但是嚴謹跟法治跟憲法的精神,我們不能憾格,不能愉悅。"},{"start":12550.043,"end":12550.303,"text":"紅木凱委員請準備。"},{"start":12563.697,"end":12581.776,"text":"按照禮拜二程序委員會我們所排定的議程跟議事的順序我剛再確認了一次應該沒有問題我們前三個法案都是跟國會改革相關的法案這個是第一個"},{"start":12586.121,"end":12603.826,"text":"那第二個呢是我還是要再次表達啦就是說上一次您說就這兩個條例的部分等新的部長來我也非常尊重院長的意思我覺得也有道理因為老實說現在大家非常多人"},{"start":12605.205,"end":12627.506,"text":"真的關切的是明天在院會針對國會改革法案的處理。」那這兩個條例的討論是不是要在這個時候進行還是依照您的指示之前的考慮那個考慮我覺得是有道理等新的交通部部長那"},{"start":12630.762,"end":12640.271,"text":"因為明天要處理有關於國會改革的法案所以我覺得我們那個議事規則今天要先確認清楚之前我在黨團協商的時候我確認過經過委員會的協商"},{"start":12653.733,"end":12669.284,"text":"而且過了三十日的寫商冷凍期．就已經進行了立法院職權新司法．裡面鎖定的要件。明天寫商的時候我講得蠻清楚的。第二天我又再度的跟院長"},{"start":12670.718,"end":12682.674,"text":"還有秘書長再度的確認這樣子的議事規則。」那我想我應該沒有誤會兩位當初的意思。因為我不希望"},{"start":12686.36,"end":12704.215,"text":"用程序上面這樣的事由來進行杯葛,導致明天沒有辦法處理國會改革的法案。」我相信這個是大家所不樂見的事情。因此現在"},{"start":12705.778,"end":12730.912,"text":"還是依照您剛剛的指示,我們按照這個順序在進行。」那只不過說我比較懇切的提供一個建議,因為以現在這個時間點來講,我們可能必須要先去確認我剛剛所講的議事規則,明天星期五已經過了協商冷凍期,而且那三個法案也進行了之前的協商,"},{"start":12732.357,"end":12740.073,"text":"因此明天在院會處理是沒有法規上面的障礙。至於贊成或不贊成"},{"start":12741.002,"end":12764.895,"text":"當然大家有不一樣的看法但我要確認的事情是明天在院會處理我們禮拜二程序委員會所表定的前面那三個議案是不存在法規上面的障礙那以上就這個程序性的事項因為非常的重要所以我在想說是不是可以請院長先確認一下院長歡迎"},{"start":12770.943,"end":12774.286,"text":"黨團協商．一個月無法達成共識由院會定期處理。」再一次。"},{"start":12796.838,"end":12798.34,"text":"院會定期處理,就是排程序委員會 院會來做議案討論。」"},{"start":12812.78,"end":12838.841,"text":"所以我想如果明天剛剛民眾黨黨團以及民進黨黨團這樣子發言聽下來明天我們排定的這個院會討論事項能夠處理前三條前三案的國會改革無法這是合法合規的這是第一個我們先確認的一個地方第二從兩點的協商到現在三個多小時終於民進黨團柯總召先排了"},{"start":12840.355,"end":12859.166,"text":"剛剛一個多小時的這個又在討論程序又在假意說尊重院長但是其實最不尊重院長的說實在院長已經只是誰發言了都還可以在那邊搶麥克風我想全國人民都看在眼裡討論了一個多小時要來扯程序其實根本不是想要扯程序就是想要拖延時間"},{"start":12860.367,"end":12875.992,"text":"想要限制明天院會只處理環島高鐵跟花東塊這兩案,但是不想要面對國會改革,我們已經在程序委員會排的前三案。」如果是這樣的話,國人會感到非常失望。"},{"start":12877.112,"end":12897.081,"text":"這是知法玩法是玩弄意識規則我們在禮拜三的時候為了要確保我們能夠在明天順利的依合法合規合憲我們來去做每一個討論事項我們提前來排隊在議場前面現在還有我們的兄弟姐妹在排隊"},{"start":12898.081,"end":12927.047,"text":"也因此我們講的是說如果今天民進黨團先排他的陽謀就是不想要討論到明天的這三個法案的話我覺得沒有辦法接受那再者今天協商剛好民進黨團在最後一刻如果我沒有接錯這個會議的這個通知錯誤的話在今天的最後一刻又要求院長延商立院職權新施法部分條文修正草案等三案什麼最後一刻"},{"start":12929.249,"end":12942.79,"text":"沒有問題。我們達到會議通知、開會通知的時候是在今天的。那我們就等一下院長請做一個協商。來這個協商,我們一定,我們今天協商沒有時間表。所以柯總召不要跑。"},{"start":12943.953,"end":12970.467,"text":"等下我們一定你我要多久協商只要主席能夠我們一定陪你今天協商到明天早上七點我都OK我都一定奉陪我們要的就是明天依照程序委員會我們來做討論事項的所有案例尤其是前三案尤其是前三案這是我們的規定那我想最後真的啦院長"},{"start":12972.409,"end":12988.734,"text":"我還是建議我們黨團三長資歷可能有輕有淺年紀有輕有淺但是既然坐在這個位置上代表國民黨團、民進黨團、民眾黨團大家平起平坐我覺得發言時間真的要控制"},{"start":12989.656,"end":12992.497,"text":"民眾黨團提議：於新民眾黨團提議：於新民眾黨團提議：於新民眾黨團提議：於新民眾黨團提議：於新民眾黨團提議：於新民眾黨團提議：於新民眾黨團提議："},{"start":13014.244,"end":13017.125,"text":"委員會作成決議．於新委員會作成決議．於新委員會作成決議．於新委員會作成決議．於新委員會作成決議．"},{"start":13035.833,"end":13057.283,"text":"接下來請柯建民總召發言,然後傅坤祺總召請準備。我希望大家一起好好聽。今天不是講程式性問題,今天講法律的問題,而且立法院的問題。你知道什麼叫職權刑事法,律六十八條嗎?職權刑法律六十八條是"},{"start":13060.111,"end":13061.312,"text":"黨團協商、政黨協商以及爭議事項是院長之前"},{"start":13066.843,"end":13091.342,"text":"院長之前,院長覺得有需要他再召集,我們覺得有需要請院長召集。」這是院長在整個立法院裡面一個很重要的武器,而且他之前。你講了71條之一,委員會協商一個月以後,之一是寫什麼?是定期表決。"},{"start":13092.623,"end":13117.568,"text":"本來是四個月以後,二零八以後馬英九執政把他改為一個月以後,你要瞭解這個整個立法的過程。大家是如何讓立法院能夠好好討論事情。協商沒有結論也不是明天就表決,是定期律理處理的。所以你要把法看清楚。你看黃國昌根本在這裡不講法律的吧。"},{"start":13118.527,"end":13145.112,"text":"你在這邊好像你﹐站到了極大的優勢﹐極大的理論﹐然後不要跑,只要十二點。你只要明天也是一樣。沒有決定是定期處理,不是你排在那裡就要馬上處理。你以為這樣就可以處理啊。因為你沒有擔任黨別人,我告訴你。不知道黃昌委員剛剛講了一項。你們昨天在陳奕委員強制表決一二三案所謂改革案。"},{"start":13147.449,"end":13170.635,"text":"然後明天就排然後你們就開始排隊我一直很悶啊你們在排什麼我只是在不好意思講而已啊我今天特別發現臉書法院長所有都是法院長你是一念之間整個國家民主憲政制度憲法整個國家民主假如不照法來不是要寫個記者來那我們就結束了"},{"start":13172.336,"end":13179.042,"text":"韓國昌也當過黨鞭,我們過去讓他在這裏單獨協商讓他單獨找我們部委黨長檢案一個鐘頭,不會為了我們的尊重,你告訴我之後沒關係,所以你不要棄絕法律,然後你要限制發言時間,發言時間之後法院規定指揮在哪裡,就告訴我,"},{"start":13201.516,"end":13224.027,"text":"一直跟著三十一條去看．假如沒有決定的東西．沒有一次的限制．結果院會才有．所以我們要查一條簽名每個發言幾分鐘．你要瞭解．你要清潔法律．然後以為你佔到一個．然後無敵的武力．根本你這樣破壞國會．那整個民主都毀掉了．"},{"start":13227.965,"end":13251.196,"text":"這個是一個很嚴肅的事情,我們一直在這裏不願情緩地講,不知道剛才不是要講得這麼詳細,還是講什麼權力分立原則,只有把你講得這麼清楚你又看不懂。不是你今天你們兩個黨加起來,為所欲為,什麼都可以發明可以創造,沒有這個事情,國家不是這樣做的。"},{"start":13253.191,"end":13256.857,"text":"國民黨黨團．建請院會作成決議．以新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":13269.415,"end":13294.445,"text":"我們認為違反權力分離原則,你認為沒有。我是只要剛才在講這麼詳細,你也聽不下去,沒有關係。那我們就表決了。我們輸了就算了。我們輸了就算了。但是呢,輸了以後我們會實現。好不好?這樣好不好?可以進入程序了吧?你要做到時候,你自己做。"},{"start":13295.885,"end":13306.149,"text":"任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於"},{"start":13323.592,"end":13328.034,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":13352.099,"end":13371.678,"text":"我們要向韓院長致敬。韓院長真的不只是不斷在蛻變、在升級。為了這樣的一個複雜的一個協商的過程,還有今天我正式看到過去民進黨在演"},{"start":13372.961,"end":13377.347,"text":"總統施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於"},{"start":13390.423,"end":13418.45,"text":"對韓院長直接做人身的攻擊．原來就是直接就直接要鋪牌來挑戰你的權威甚至在直播的過程當中現在把你刻意醜化醜化了以後才可以把你的這個國會議長的這樣的一個領導權來一個做一個正面的挑戰我想我們今天聽了這麼久"},{"start":13420.597,"end":13449.004,"text":"這個我們還是很單純的很單純的也都相信大家是要善意的溝通。前幾次的朝野協商這邊就在謾罵的過程當中人身攻擊不斷人身攻擊在謾罵人身攻擊不斷的在損耗大家的時間。今天的協商我們是依照協商的內容協商的內容來進行但是我們並沒有接受"},{"start":13450.222,"end":13476.828,"text":"除了這個協商的內容以外還有其他的但書明天只能處理哪個案子明天不能處理哪些案子其實今天院長發的協商已經很清楚了我想民進黨也提出了這國會改革相關的案子也提出來了這第五案所以我們今天準備好挑燈夜戰反正我們要睡覺嘛如果說"},{"start":13479.042,"end":13498.542,"text":"民進黨再三強調委員會中心主義不斷的在這裡呼天搶地這個委員會的討論有多麼多麼的重要國會改革相關的這些修正案在司法委員會"},{"start":13500.824,"end":13505.45,"text":"經過整整八個小時的討論．民進黨也經過44次的上會動議．44次的表決．裡面柯總召"},{"start":13519.229,"end":13523.152,"text":"黨黨長施政方針報告及本院配合延會相關事宜。」相關事宜。．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議"},{"start":13540.322,"end":13563.777,"text":"朝野協商．由吳仲健召委召集的朝野協商．他們那個幹事長．這個好像吳思堯也到了．也搞了很多個小時．也經過了這個程序完成．然後我們今天．哇,看到很高興．這個柯總召．民進黨提議今天的"},{"start":13565.566,"end":13593.529,"text":"黨團協商通知第五條．嚴理立法院職權行政法部分修正條文．三案。」我想民進黨提出來我們就準備要挑燈夜戰了。第一個委員會中心主義委員會已經進行了所有該必須進行的程序也包括委員會的朝野協商也都經過完成。然後呢這個版本又是這個版本又是民進黨"},{"start":13595.226,"end":13599.348,"text":"過去不斷地要求國會必須陽光,必須要清廉,必須要儲備,我們是依照民進黨的版本,而且"},{"start":13612.625,"end":13628.812,"text":"大法官解釋五八五號解釋令,民國九十三年到現在二十年,我們全部都是依照五八五號解釋令所提出的這些修正條文。我實在不清楚"},{"start":13630.65,"end":13637.534,"text":"賴清德總統即將就職。」賴清德總統即將就職。你尊重我的發言。賴清德總統即將就職。難道不希望有一個健全的國會幫他所有過去他不是當總統任內的所有的這些相關的情勢都能夠讓人民了解清楚。"},{"start":13657.554,"end":13684.5,"text":"我們要講的就是今天國會改革所有的這些條文通過以後對國家是正面的對國會是正面的對民進黨更是正面的對賴總統絕對是正面的這能夠讓國家更加的連人更加的有效力更加的清白這個我想賴總統半夜都會鼓掌到天亮"},{"start":13686.428,"end":13693.637,"text":"我想這樣的一個經過委員會,柯總召從頭到尾都在現場,他不能說他沒有參與。三長都在現場,從頭參與到尾,協商他的幹事長出席,一路協商到結束。"},{"start":13707.185,"end":13734.131,"text":"然後接著下來來來來來我們一條條協商啊我等你啊沒有問題啊我等你啊沒有問題啊我們一條條來沒有關係嘛所以啊我們在這裡啊我們在這裡再次的強調全部站到立法院的議事程序走禮拜二的程序委員會已經送了"},{"start":13735.578,"end":13763.095,"text":"那禮拜五該排的議程都已經排好了我們完全要遵規則所以對於可能的突發的狀況去迫害禮拜五的議程我們也都非常明確我們可以參風露宿在議場門口排隊為什麼?我們就是守規則照規則走那既然議事規則就是這麼清楚五月十七號"},{"start":13764.164,"end":13786.03,"text":"也經過了這些程序．也到了可以做院會處理的時間．我們當然仗義成種．我們不會有任何的交換條件．更不會有徇私舞弊的情況發生．我們啊．如果．如果剛剛陳如柯總召講的．我要跟全國國人在這裡報告．"},{"start":13789.019,"end":13795.843,"text":"委員會的協商．全國人都看到．委員會的討論．全國人都看到．還是說．今天的國會．沒有柯建民點頭．通通不能處理．都不能討論．我在這裡要特別強調．我們完全"},{"start":13810.942,"end":13829.518,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院院長施政方針報告前："},{"start":13831.328,"end":13850.622,"text":"剛剛柯總召我很尊重他講話的時候聽他講完剛剛柯總召當著所有的人講說如果沒有照他的意思會有史上最嚴重的衝突就是說已經預先恐嚇在野黨預先恐嚇在野黨他當家還要鬧事"},{"start":13856.348,"end":13858.491,"text":"我們不怕!我們不怕!怕!今天就不會來了!"},{"start":13872.062,"end":13874.765,"text":"現在是第四案跟第五案是一起討論的是不是?都一起討論了齁?"},{"start":13890.403,"end":13912.804,"text":"我先針對第四案環島快速鐵路高速鐵路這個部分我想該廳不管是吳思堯幹事長或者柯總召的意見一直說這個部分違反權力分立原則我們立法院沒有這個定立特別條例的這樣一個權力其實我想我要挑戰你"},{"start":13914.261,"end":13930.771,"text":"我想我們立法委員的職權就是有立法權有議決法律的權利嘛這是很明顯的你同意吧所以立法委員去訂立特別條例訂立這個法律案這你應該同意吧"},{"start":13931.889,"end":13951.181,"text":"黨團提議：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院院長施政方"},{"start":13956.044,"end":13974.585,"text":"我想我們也可以來討論那他們主要的意思他們就認為說這部分預算這部分的有侵侵犯到我們啊這個行政機關他編列預算的權利但是我們要提醒你請你看一下我們這個啊修這個修正動議後修改後的第六條第六條很明確規定啊"},{"start":13978.508,"end":14001.553,"text":"這預算從哪裡而來?有三個方式啊。第一個依照促進民間參與公共建設辦理採用民間興建營運後的預算模式。第二個依照國際招標方式以興建營運後轉移的模式。第三個由中央執行機關分年編類預算辦理。所以也不是特別預算。"},{"start":14003.759,"end":14014.139,"text":"如果說不是依照第一跟第二個方式,第三個方式也是由我們的中央政府行政機關他逐年編列預算來執行的。"},{"start":14016.263,"end":14017.184,"text":"黨黨團協商委員會的協商委員會參與。」"},{"start":14044.739,"end":14060.421,"text":"大概講說沒有逐條討論,莊雄你也在啦,有通過一條欸,你說沒有通過,沒有半條,沒有逐條,有通過一條嘛,所以有逐條討論之後沒有逐條討論,那其他的都有在討論,都有一直在討論。"},{"start":14061.562,"end":14086.871,"text":"但是為什麼你自己知道這是什麼原因我想第二天你們也有開記者會說什麼原因那我們有進入主條討論的程序請尊重一下發言委員發言委員不要被情緒感染謝謝謝業長表達所以我們在主條討論的過程中那當然雙方就無法達成共識討論了很久所以沒有辦法達成共識我們就依照相關的意識規則既然沒有共識就"},{"start":14087.711,"end":14110.571,"text":"送院會處理。」這樣子處理我怎麼沒有出條討論呢?這個不要亂講明明有以上謝謝謝謝林思明委員接下來在吳思堯委員發言之前各位黨團幹部如果沒有意見是不是請列席的各位官員就可以先離席因為他們是公務員他們可能回去還有很多事情處理他們的作息"},{"start":14112.921,"end":14129.299,"text":"不是,我說列席交通部、交通部跟交通部跟國防會還有其他部會。如果各位黨團他們沒有意見的話,我們就請官員先離席。也謝謝大家,再次感謝大家。那我們接下來"},{"start":14130.76,"end":14158.652,"text":"院長能不能把今天協商的這一些案子的那個內容文件全部都發下來好不好因為我們就要進入了嘛因為這是民進黨團排的那我們現在就是進行協商怎麼是我們排的這個是院長排的怎麼是我們排的你民進黨團不是啦今天的議程是院長排的啊現在又不認了什麼時候叫我們排的連你們自己請求都不敢認現在在處理花東欸拿公文出來看"},{"start":14159.552,"end":14165.098,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新"},{"start":14187.681,"end":14201.884,"text":"實施正義,我們現在就是遵守程序正義。各種招,請各位官員稍微快速一點好不好,謝謝大家,謝謝。稍微等一下,請官員離席之後。"},{"start":14228.018,"end":14237.64,"text":"任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前。"},{"start":14245.674,"end":14254.582,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前"},{"start":14265.094,"end":14279.717,"text":"好,那再一次謝謝法務部、總統府還有行政院考試院、監察院各位各位官員你們就請回了,我們來討論了。好,因為已經到了你們要下班的時間了,不打擾大家了。請快速移動。好,保持微笑。謝謝。"},{"start":14305.202,"end":14315.871,"text":"自然演員來引導一下好不好,請官員先離開,那邊有三部電梯哈,因為我們下面還有委員要發言。離開的時候會有一點點,會有一點雜音。好,接下來我們請吳世耀委員發言,請。"},{"start":14317.637,"end":14336.994,"text":"好院長啊如果照剛剛今天的協商議案現在進入的是環島高鐵以及花東塊哈我的認知沒有錯那國會改革的議案等一下要不要繼續協商那先等這兩個案子處理完好嗎那先回到程序面"},{"start":14341.296,"end":14352.198,"text":"職權行使法第七十一條﹚是我在講實質啊。是啊。請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,請勇,"},{"start":14361.952,"end":14385.494,"text":"好,我要自宣刑事法第七十一條之一喔,院長。議案自交黨討然,協商欲一個月無法達成共識者,由院會定期處理。的意思是,其實我在當國會助理的時候,還有行政院參議的時候,那個時候是四個月嘛,對不對?四個月的協商冷凍期。對,四個月的協商冷凍期。那後來改成,對,後來改成一個月。"},{"start":14387.917,"end":14407.512,"text":"但是這個議案改成一個月的意思是說．任何一個議案出了委員會．進入協商．至少要有一個月．再對話．再匯聚共識。這是至少有一個月。所以呢在一個月之後．"},{"start":14409.013,"end":14434.719,"text":"則期再處理,不是說一個月D-Day就馬上處理。」好,這個法條的精神很重要。所以法條的理解不要錯誤了。這一個條文是告訴我們至少要有一個月,而不是說一個月就是放在那裡乾等過水,然後等過一個月之後馬上表決。這完全是誤解法律,也是誤用法律。第二個,韓院長跟您報告,"},{"start":14435.919,"end":14456.17,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前、繼續研商新任行政院院院長施政"},{"start":14457.589,"end":14461.997,"text":"協商期過．沒有經過協商．沒有經過實質討論．就表決。 Never!"},{"start":14461.997,"end":14464.421,"text":"Never!"},{"start":14464.421,"end":14467.126,"text":"Never!"},{"start":14467.126,"end":14470.031,"text":"王金平也好,蘇嘉全也好,到游錫堃也好,"},{"start":14471.92,"end":14488.888,"text":"民眾黨團提議：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方"},{"start":14497.745,"end":14499.367,"text":"院會作成決議．於新院會作成決議．於新院會作成決議．於新院會"},{"start":14517.84,"end":14532.241,"text":"蘇嘉全院長針對反滲透法協商了兩次,但是一次都是七、八個小時以上。蘇嘉全院長針對前瞻基礎建設協商了兩天,一次都是十小時、十五小時的。"},{"start":14533.683,"end":14540.714,"text":"蘇嘉全院長針對政黨不當處理財產不當黨產條例．協商了十個小時,都是一條一條討論。蘇嘉全院長針對促轉條例協商了七次,"},{"start":14548.635,"end":14571.471,"text":"好,講到游錫堃院長,我這裡列出來的是因為我自己作為列席委員,我是教育文化委員的交委,我都有來參加的。學校衛生法,游錫堃院長協商了四次。文化藝術獎助條例,游錫堃院長協商了三次。我要跟韓院長報告,我認為您是理性可以溝通的人。為什麼院長,這就是院長至高無上的協商的權限。"},{"start":14572.532,"end":14596.539,"text":"一個立法院院長很重要的一個責任是會聚共事不是凡事都表決反而相反在表決前能夠減少彼此的歧義讓表決的條文越少越好因為這就是院長的協調能耐所以過去的幾任院長協調了七次八次九次這都是協商一個月兩個月繼續協商從來沒有"},{"start":14600.64,"end":14613.544,"text":"時間到一個月,不逐條討論,就像現在我們也看得很清楚,副總召也好,洪孟凱書記長也好,打得如意算盤就是熬過時間,等一下一個一個條文就過水,然後就直接明天表決。回到現在講的環島高鐵跟蘇花快,我這裡提出來的都是負責任的交通專業評估,"},{"start":14628.419,"end":14642.956,"text":"立法部門沒有辦法做到這些,你憑什麼去規定編多少預算?你憑什麼去規定框定它十年或是改成十二年?這是不負責任的立法。」"},{"start":14644.161,"end":14669.769,"text":"我們講講被國民黨罵到臭頭杯葛最利的前瞻建設條例我拿了這裡四本厚厚的預算書都是通過特別條例再編特別預算才會有四年對不起八年八千八百億第一期是一千零八十九億我跟大家報告一個叫Key剛的"},{"start":14670.729,"end":14690.143,"text":"重要工程就以前瞻建設被國民黨杯葛這麼強力的前瞻建設先有特別條例才有特別預算特別條例從2017年3月23號行政院送到立法院到他表決通過是2017年7月5號審查了104天"},{"start":14694.787,"end":14718.908,"text":"當中委員會辦了六場公聽會,六個委員會的聯席審查,審查了五次。朝野協商由蘇嘉全院長主持,協商了兩次,一次九小時,一次十五小時。在院會表決的時候,前瞻特別條例各黨共提案八十案表決五十九次。"},{"start":14720.012,"end":14729.018,"text":"先有條例再有預算。我就以前瞻建設的第一期編列的預算是1089億。行政院2017年7月11號送到立法院完成審查,歷經了51天。"},{"start":14735.642,"end":14761.959,"text":"當中也是七個委員會聯席審查．花了三天足足的時間逐條逐項審查。朝野協商由蘇嘉全院長主持了三次。院會的表決在野黨提案提了一萬零四百三十五案。前瞻特別預算在立法院的院會表決了兩千四百七十一次。我要跟院長報告"},{"start":14764.031,"end":14773.377,"text":"前瞻的第一期計劃一千零八十九億要歷經這樣層層的審查、層層的協商、層層的討論才表決這是一千零八十九億的前瞻預算的第一期我們今天現在要處理的是環島高鐵市一兆以上一兆以上"},{"start":14791.055,"end":14819.66,"text":"第二案花東塊要兩千五百億以上。請問我們不值得好好來討論嗎?我們不值得嚴肅的來行使我們的監督權嗎?我們當立法委員就做好我們的工作不要只想過水不要只想怕死不要只想硬幹不要只想表決"},{"start":14821.601,"end":14838.67,"text":"非常遺憾我今天在這裡還要針對我搬了這麼多的預算書在野黨哪一個立委這麼認真的去看交通評估在野黨的哪一個立委這麼認真的去看所有建設的財務試算應當如何進行"},{"start":14841.86,"end":14854.548,"text":"坐在這裡直想等過水趴死,熬過今天,等一下韓院長離開這裡宣布協商結束,明天就表決。」我們是立法委員,民恥民高。"},{"start":14856.201,"end":14869.871,"text":"民主民高。」我們可以這樣胡亂的行使我們的職權嗎?第二個,我們也看得很清楚,在野黨的委員,除了要在明天強行表決通過前瞻條例之外,還要加碼,讓到目前為止還沒有"},{"start":14877.32,"end":14899.646,"text":"協商的立法院職權行使法也就是國會擴權的法案也要在明天一起表決。我要挑戰在委員會審查司法法制委員會審查哪一個條文被逐條了沒有你們一直在講那天吳宗憲委員主持的黨團協商我有在場"},{"start":14900.746,"end":14904.19,"text":"他花了不到一個小時,討論的條文只有三個,通過一條,我們總共有六十幾個條文,六十八條,只通過一條,你跟我說那個有經過黨團協商,這就是過水嗎?這就是過水嗎?"},{"start":14921.653,"end":14943.602,"text":"而且,如果要強行明天表決職權行使法．只有國民黨的版本．只有民眾黨的版本．民進黨的職權行使法．被拋在後面．因為這非常重大．非常重大,好,院長．所以我最後要說．國民黨跟民眾黨．打的什麼如意算盤．"},{"start":14945.034,"end":14961.999,"text":"再生醫療雙法就因為你們要強行表決錢坑法案、強行表決國會擴權法案、讓所有的癌症病患、重症病患、慢性病患、苦苦等待的再生醫療雙法在明天的議程被排到後面。明天要強行通過政治法案,把民生法案、救命法案丟在一邊,"},{"start":14973.488,"end":14975.932,"text":"這是國民黨民眾黨你們的良知嗎?你們最關心的村里長"},{"start":14980.589,"end":14982.03,"text":"任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":15004.392,"end":15013.521,"text":"院長,我們是立法委員,以兆元以上的預算,我不能講十分鐘嗎?一兆,我現在在講,我剛剛在講這麼多,因為你們急切地要處理前科法案,也急切地要處理職權新施法,"},{"start":15022.249,"end":15029.955,"text":"這麼嚴肅的事情我們不能講十分鐘十五分鐘嗎?我們是民意代表!我第一次的協商就告訴院長如果心態上大家只是想要過水我講五十次時間都不夠我們這麼認真的準備我們的問政都要被踐踏"},{"start":15048.223,"end":15069.614,"text":"你們不尊重我們實質討論的。大家都互相發言,你已經變成演講比賽了,你知道嗎?我不是演講比賽。你已經超出太多範圍了。麻煩你進入環島高鐵主要協商。好,那環島高鐵我剛剛講了很多。立法院新司法我們等一下會討論,你為什麼要把他兩個怎麼混在一起勒?院長我非常的失望。"},{"start":15071.431,"end":15095.164,"text":"我們認真的在監督你說我們在演講比賽你上來就給我上一個枷鎖說你舉手我都沒看到我還特別說請你發言不是嗎那你自己要自重嘛院長我非常的自愛自重啊我們就自己控制時間院長不要選擇性的對待不同黨派的委員言盡於此我們大家控制一下好不好好不要吵"},{"start":15099.235,"end":15120.538,"text":"主席宣告我們現在進行環島高鐵逐條協商拜託各位黨團幹部能夠對焦資料就在大家桌上逐條進行沒有共識我們就保留沒有共識我們就保留那針對第一條莊瑞雄委員有沒有保過意見請"},{"start":15121.707,"end":15145.921,"text":"我這個意見一定是寶貴啊,院長。其實也倒也不是施堯,你在講這個環島高鐵的時候,他在講這句行事法。不是。是各個黨團裡面,我剛聽了以後,你已經進入到高鐵,他們最關心的,他一直在跟你講說,哎喲,我們全部都有討論過,是這樣子才引起的。那我們當然必須要去做回應,這個院長,這個不是針對你,這個你也不要誤會。"},{"start":15147.122,"end":15154.256,"text":"因為剛剛那個黃孟楷委員他們一直在講啊,林士明也開始講啊,你們講說這個在委員會裡面都已經有討論過了。哎喲,林士明你也每次請這個又想一個。"},{"start":15159.961,"end":15173.373,"text":"我告訴你,四月十五日,我跟你講,四月十五日那天,五十五個條文都沒有實質討論,是主辦保留送院會,你還怎麼講,你知道嗎?你還講說,哎喲,朝夕協商沒有在主條的啦,你忘記了嗎?哎喲,我哪敢讓你看,我告訴你,我是不要再漏氣,我現在悄悄地跟你講,"},{"start":15182.383,"end":15200.889,"text":"院長,我的意思是說我是在回應他啦,那你既然要對焦,他們就不想對焦嘛,那我就跟你講嘛,要講出一個道理嘛,你說現在富均級委員等五十三人所凝聚的環島高鐵高速鐵路的建設特別條例,我們現在要開始講第一條嘛,對不對。我當然要請他們,我們當然要提出我們的一個看法。"},{"start":15207.563,"end":15231.09,"text":"推動環島高速鐵路的部分,這當然是發展整個大眾的運輸,大家都同意。」我為什麼第一條我開始要講說,利益良善,大家剛才談的就是說,真的是我們立法院這樣來推動嗎?我們真的要來治病這一部法律,然後就花東的部分就來推動?對我屏東我叫做苦主啦!"},{"start":15233.148,"end":15238.19,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前"},{"start":15253.683,"end":15275.843,"text":"就直接說我們今天人數比較多所以要來建造一個環島高速鐵路來建設條例然後叫你行政院你就叫你做你就不得不做是這樣的一個態度嗎我一直認為啊軌道建設不是不能做啊國民黨其實在前瞻基礎建設的時候最痛恨的就是軌道建設最痛恨的就是軌道建設啊"},{"start":15277.089,"end":15300.543,"text":"連院長即使你對高鐵道屏東．當初你也都有意見．我就沒想到要再漏氣了．但是重點就是說．我們這樣的一個法案．進入實質我都願意．但是我們真的必須要去講清楚．舉國家一年的預算．我們的國家一年的總預算兩兆多．"},{"start":15301.894,"end":15330.691,"text":"花東這樣的一個整個環島的高速鐵路建設特別條例我們是不是是以我們制定一部法令來命令行政院做成這樣的一個交通建設還是說行政院本來施政就必須要顧及到東西的一個平衡顧及到城鄉差距然後竹案來推動而不是說"},{"start":15332.304,"end":15357.084,"text":"整個條例通過以後．投入這麼多的一個預算．然後那其他的地方呢．是不是會有更失衡．為了達到平衡．然後到最後更失衡．這個我是覺得大家．要來好好的做一個省思了．所以我現在談到的就是第一條裡面．全部都是實質．我講的全部都是實質．那乾脆我就覺得林世民．你新竹要多弄一點啊．"},{"start":15359.56,"end":15364.841,"text":"是不是?為什麼想說第一條我會特別有意見的習慣?院長我意思是說如果要邏輯也要搞清楚啊為什麼進入中規的你不要你卻從要從這個台北然後到宜蘭然後到花蓮再到台東而不是從已經進入中規的屏東到台東然後再到花蓮這個大家要講清楚"},{"start":15384.824,"end":15384.844,"text":"院長。"},{"start":15415.168,"end":15418.792,"text":"我一直試圖讓我們講很多話會有一個結論但是緊鎖了整個法律"},{"start":15430.064,"end":15445.729,"text":"我一直要講一個事情今天是立法院裡面一個非常關鍵的一天都是大家一念之間你要把破壞掉民主就毀了所以我今天很很誠懇的說大家把話講錯了"},{"start":15447.782,"end":15474.239,"text":"剛才在外面跟韓院長還有副院長吳思堯還有黃孟楷我們在外面有先講過要改變事情比較重要要解決事情比較重要但是要在立法院軌道上來完成我必須承認我了解"},{"start":15476.564,"end":15502.599,"text":"我們堅守的是什麼東西?請大家了解。就是說,韓院長也一直跟我講說他會很中立來處理,他不會把立法院搞亂掉。你還講一句話說,我們都支持法聯繫了,還在吵什麼?這都很誠懇的話。非常感激韓院長有這種體認。所以於是乎剛才我們三個除了黃國昌以外,"},{"start":15503.803,"end":15529.872,"text":"還有黃國昌以外：我們到外面都講好。而且我進來代表大家來台灣內容做一個適合性的解決。很好高這兩案子,我們裡面講得非常透徹,包括吳士曉剛才在補充,我已經講了兩次以上,上次講了兩次以上,我也不為難大家。"},{"start":15531.806,"end":15559.657,"text":"但是呢,我們做這樣的嘗試性結論的時候,大家都覺得很滿意。然後俄商不同意,轉到別的地方去了。他們轉到說昨天前提程序委員會強行表決通過國會三法,那後來好像是一二三案,這怎麼解決?這個變更一層,大家常常談到的變更一層,把環島高層弄到前面來了嘛,這個很簡單嘛。"},{"start":15561.846,"end":15580.726,"text":"所以黃國昌委員,我一直,他常常講完就走,我一直說就走,不要再哭了,不要再吵了,拜託了,拜託了。他來講,他走堅持的就是一些程序性的問題。啊我講話你有沒有辦法插話?我承認他講話有插過我的話,他也講話有插過我的話,插過誰的話,都有。"},{"start":15583.257,"end":15599.357,"text":"今天禮拜四昨天我特別到司法法治委員會黃國昌第一個發言有關於澳門的案子我現在看他講話而且一個人的時間都講得很清楚"},{"start":15600.285,"end":15628.506,"text":"他照常超過發言時間不得不吳宗憲再站起來我們還是很忍耐我再看他到底要他有沒有什麼規矩不要用這個東西來講所以今天我們要講清楚只要方針委員走了以後我們今天試圖把這個事情圓滿起來簽一個朝陽結論你能不能跟你講話不好意思簽一個朝陽結論明天在宴會"},{"start":15629.79,"end":15630.24,"text":"大家講好"},{"start":15631.837,"end":15657.83,"text":"大會討論幾個人．主要討論幾個人．我們就這樣走過去．表決輸了．我們以後不可能表決贏．我們一定會釋憲．就是這樣而已．這個東西就是．在誠信軌道上．我們還要緊守．我們所能努力的方向．但是今天遭遇．要怎麼處理．任副總裁．我們來胡言亂語．我們發表演講都講錯．"},{"start":15660.371,"end":15672.31,"text":"他們鬧成這樣,然後整個程序都是因為沒收,他覺得這沒收是有什麼道理,他不在這裏,我也不要缺席整判。那院長。"},{"start":15673.596,"end":15699.314,"text":"現在不要再衝了。他們兩個從這種狀況照尾,我們一家就已經過了。明天再繼續不要衝突。但是,我一直講一句話說,沒有經過超越協商東西,沒有經過院內討論的東西,直接表決,那絕對衝突。這不是,這是民主的最後一大防線,也不是在恐嚇誰。"},{"start":15701.383,"end":15713.088,"text":"所以這個很重要。那現在不要再分開。香港常常是白的,你就不用白。香港常常是白的,你就不用白。這是什麼?都在香港的,來日本就很明白。"},{"start":15714.776,"end":15741.774,"text":"這不是這樣搞法啦然後講那個直接刑事法講得很清楚七十一條之一沒有決定一個月沒有決定命定其處理那不是馬上處理而且院長你做政法之前就六十八到七十一六十八條你處理所以朝委協商的問題有爭議的事情是你來處理我一百多次"},{"start":15744.476,"end":15759.386,"text":"我們這30年也要確實幹起院長的角色。我們可以樂意跟你配合,但只要維持民主程序。好不好?第二條,針對條文。針對條文。我們這講的話是有準算嗎?"},{"start":15765.845,"end":15774.708,"text":"民眾黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．建請國民黨黨團提議．"},{"start":15794.136,"end":15811.572,"text":"再者、協商．剛剛民進黨團．代表一直講是說過去有協商九次、協商八次、協商幾次的經驗。那是各黨有提出相關的版本．能夠讓院長調和、頂賴．把各版本限縮、限縮、再限縮．提出有一些共識。所以當然可以協商啊。"},{"start":15812.293,"end":15832.32,"text":"可是從環島高鐵也好、花東塊也好．或者是相關的建設．一開始開宗明義．是不是我就有提出說．如果民進黨的代表真的有意見．真的有想法．拿出版本來．行政部門拿出版本來．我們針對逐條逐條大家去．去提出．"},{"start":15836.141,"end":15841.005,"text":"你如果說沒有辦法有版本那我協商50次協商100次不都一樣嗎?那不就是了嗎?你現在就講是說你一方面又講是說以前的院長你先把麥克風關掉我剛剛你在講話的時候我沒有按過麥克風"},{"start":15852.237,"end":15871.606,"text":"你先把麥克風關掉說實在我們大家互相尊重對沒錯我現在講的就是你提出來八至九次的協商那是大家各黨團有版本有版本之後院長能夠來協調來收納來歸納但是你現在重點在於是你一開始就講了你們沒有拿出版本你們只想反對到底"},{"start":15872.586,"end":15895.249,"text":"那我協商一次、協商三次、協商五次,有道理嗎?再者,裡面哪一條沒有辦法?我說實在話,裡面每一條,如果說你真的有意見,有要討論的話,你就可以針對主條,我們現在來討論。再者,剛剛吳氏要講說,我們只想要過水,想表決。想表決是誰?想表決是坐在你旁邊的柯建民啊!"},{"start":15896.03,"end":15915.335,"text":"他剛剛就已經講了就說哎呦來喔我們來確定明天要發言幾個人反正明天表決我們會輸誰想表決想表決是你旁邊的柯建民啊想便宜行事是你旁邊的柯建民啊你們自己先三長先把意見同意之再說了最後我真的必須講院長"},{"start":15918.086,"end":15939.115,"text":"我真的在這邊我很不喜歡口出惡言所以我不會指名道姓不會至少不希望是講是說到底是誰怎麼樣可是從一開始做下來從兩點做到現在要嘛是講人家的法案就是錢坑要嘛就是講別人然後講說我們黨什麼法案等等的部分"},{"start":15939.995,"end":15958.574,"text":"說真的,從禮拜二的程序委員會,我們就已經確定一、二、三條是國會改革,四、五是總統國情報告,七、八是環島高鐵跟花東塊,這些都已經確定的。民進黨團的朋友難道沒有看到嗎?沒有想要來溝通討論嗎?沒有。"},{"start":15961.57,"end":15988.882,"text":"那就只是想要今天再來做翻盤剛剛在休息時間在外面刻意講說啊我們就拉花東塊跟環島高鐵明天來表決就好那就是刻意要忽視一二三條討論事項的國會改革立法院立法院職權行使法這不是刻意的想要魚目混珠什麼才是魚目混珠最後請容許我再講一過協商期"},{"start":15990.202,"end":15993.877,"text":"一個月馬上就表決了。你之前民進黨團還少過嗎?"},{"start":15998.65,"end":16014.705,"text":"2019年5月17號處理公告期的公投．把公投從跟大選在一起．變成說公投明定兩年舉行一次．5月17號．院會民進黨團提案進覆二讀．6月17號直接院會三讀通過．這算什麼?"},{"start":16023.946,"end":16048.057,"text":"這不就是你們當時一個月的協商期完之後馬上處理公投法嗎?公投法怎麼從跟大選在一起變成每兩年一次?就是你們在2019年5月17號進負二讀,6月17號你們就表決通過了,不是嗎?有人講有指別人,但是不想自己。我們就找出來,你們過去就有這樣的案例。"},{"start":16048.942,"end":16056.965,"text":"所以拜託,我們今天就是論事,就是論事。」所以,院長,我們實在的說今天第二條,我沒有演講,而你又在犯規了,你又按了麥克風。我再講30秒,我就說,院長,請你先把麥克風關掉。"},{"start":16075.091,"end":16076.672,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告及本院配合延會相關事宜。」相關事宜。"},{"start":16098.408,"end":16114.654,"text":"第二條條文其實很清楚的就剛剛莊瑞雄委員他是屏東的立委他針對這個環島高鐵的路線怎麼走他其實多次的就表達為什麼呢這個路線是由這個條文的版本是從台東銜接到屏東六塊錯站"},{"start":16116.075,"end":16139.246,"text":"而不是順著從高雄往南延伸。」所以這個路線的選擇就是交通專業的評估。所以這一點就以在場的委員就有非常清楚的,而且是選區的立委,最了解的屏東的委員,他本身就認為這個條文不可行,也凸顯了這樣一個粗糙的條文的寫法是沒有徵詢在地的意見的。"},{"start":16140.286,"end":16160.393,"text":"那為什麼我也要說這個路線的話跟第二條也很有關係就是因為我們現在都知道這個國土計劃其實要各縣市要送給中央嘛但是就以這個國民黨團提的這個環島高鐵的條例來講他行經的路線都攸關國土計劃法的授權你要縣市提國土計劃的"},{"start":16162.154,"end":16176.485,"text":"縣市怎麼劃定．送給內政部．可是這個條例裡面的所行經的道路會經過的生態保育系統或是原住民的需要諮商的區域完全都跟縣市政府的這個國土計畫的提出完全不相關"},{"start":16177.365,"end":16199.94,"text":"所以用這個來辯證就是這樣一個條例的條文就以第二條來講這個路線是隨便想想隨便畫畫就把它入法了這完全不可行他除了中央政府交通部要能夠配合第二個地方政府的意願是什麼地方政府的規劃是什麼是完全是非常粗略的欠缺跟在地民意的溝通好那回過頭呢第二條我認為是沒有辦法來來來支持然後呢要回應一下吼那個紅木凱委員你又講錯了吼"},{"start":16207.365,"end":16226.865,"text":"公投法是有經過草野協商的．是有經過充分在協商當中的對話才去表決的。好嗎?我們在講的是任何的議案都要通過協商逐條討論而不是為表決而表決。然後您剛說的民進黨為什麼不提對岸?"},{"start":16228.314,"end":16248.391,"text":"交通部為什麼不提環島高鐵的對岸因為違反憲法違反行政權限立法權限的話分就不可能提對岸這我已經講了N次做了不對的一件事情還要別人在你不對的事情上來提一個對岸這不是笑掉大牙嗎所以什麼因為民進黨沒有提對岸所以就合理化你們不應該逐條討論因為民進黨沒有對岸"},{"start":16253.655,"end":16256.839,"text":"天啊!違憲的我們不可能提對岸好嗎?所以第二條的部分我再一次來路線的部分其實提案的委員也因為已經讓那個交通部門的走了那提案的委員都應當跟我們說明他也許可以說服我們為什麼他對於這個條例"},{"start":16274.64,"end":16300.853,"text":"環島高鐵是從宜蘭到花蓮然後臺東斜到屏東六塊錯這提案委員要說明啊為什麼屏東這一塊不是從高雄延伸到屏東提案委員應該說明吧可以說服我們啊提案委員完全沒有進到這個條例的任何說明的選擇請問有想要好好溝通嗎提案的委員沒有針對你的提案的任何一個條文清楚的說明怎麼溝通怎麼說服我們呢"},{"start":16302.136,"end":16306.639,"text":"所以是不是,欸不是你們負責任提出來的條文啊,你們提出來的條文啊,對不對,這是最起碼的負責任的事情,我們不會提違憲的法律,但是既然你們提了,你們敢提,就要敢說明,就要敢論述。"},{"start":16323.192,"end":16339.019,"text":"所以是不是請提案委員針對第二條每一個條文都應當爭取院長每一條文提案的條文都應當說明條文為什麼這樣寫這樣才能夠匯聚共識才能夠討論的下去提案委員是有這個責任要說明的請您思明委員是要我回答你"},{"start":16346.397,"end":16368.642,"text":"第二條很明確規定就是從宜蘭開始做從宜蘭然後經過花蓮然後台東然後到屏東是由這個宜蘭開始下來而不是由屏東一直往上走所以這個現在是這種邏輯嘛所以你不能說一定要從屏東往上做嘛所以"},{"start":16369.662,"end":16394.503,"text":"但是我們現在告訴你說我第二條我要的範圍就是從宜蘭延伸至花蓮、臺東並銜接是屏東線的六塊柱站。很清楚。但是我再講一下。你剛一直講說什麼沒有經過地方縣市政府評估。你看一下第五條不要斷磚起玉。第五條講得很清楚。交通落於本條你通過你其中可行性評估嘛。"},{"start":16395.023,"end":16413.354,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前：於新"},{"start":16421.319,"end":16445.553,"text":"謝謝。我們各位幹部,我們第二條就...等一下等一下,院長等一下。讓你發言。好,請發言。柯總說。林志明啊,你自己的條文有沒有看一下?可行性評估裡面在第五條寫是要送你一碗神意耶。你不還有能力神意這個嗎?要先做可行性評估啦。你把院來看有什麼問題呢?"},{"start":16448.877,"end":16463.683,"text":"我要講話,可是我要容忍你啦,沒有關係啦。沒有關係啦,你按那個空也無所謂啦,我不是黃國昌啦。那這是李慶能夠討論的,這是屬於李慶討論範圍。那個龍孟楷常常插話說算了,沒有關係。我是講齁,第一個齁,名稱是不是叫黃老高鐵?對吧?"},{"start":16469.364,"end":16482.909,"text":"反倒告前不是要扣一年,這沒有一千嘛,至少少少十分之一嘛,這名字是錯了,七四道名嘛,這名字沒有寫錯了吧,你們這樣寫四件事就好了。"},{"start":16486.44,"end":16498.393,"text":"這個很簡單,中文你也看不懂,好像聽起來很好聽,總算很好聽。你要做這一段是事先事,所以我這邊講了,剛才吳士堯也講得很透徹。"},{"start":16501.676,"end":16529.498,"text":"你說我們說違憲,你說不是大法官。我沒有再跟你講誰是大法官、不大法官了。憲法寫得這麼清楚,你反過來說我們在裝睡,是誰要裝睡?你根本不去瞭解憲法、瞭解什麼大法官事件的條文。然後再說我們要裝睡,你是自己裝睡的。公衛要照天良共。你在這裡齁,"},{"start":16531.059,"end":16543.507,"text":"講的話,你也許就是說反正你怎麼講沒有關係,講給你的支持者聽,然後去剪一些影音,然後播放,什麼都可以。"},{"start":16545.499,"end":16560.425,"text":"我曾經跟你媽媽同事過我希望就是說你是一個有負責有良心的立法會講話要面對所有自己的良心所以你為川台公來這裡"},{"start":16562.446,"end":16580.619,"text":"然後我會良心講話,然後也顧及族情,這都是有時而盡。要政派經營,這個我講得比較很切一點。因為根本你這個條文,我們每一條都有問題,我們不會跟你拿對關。因為討論的不對,獨處獨國理論你應該知道吧。"},{"start":16586.049,"end":16589.292,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前"},{"start":16604.093,"end":16622.366,"text":"我們剛才在外面講得很清楚,我試圖反正今天所有爭議能夠解決,但是我一直堅持一個原則,海恩長也非常清楚,沒有經過朝廷協商討論的,沒有經過徹底討論的,直接送表決是不可能的,所以我要解這個套。"},{"start":16623.564,"end":16650.226,"text":"你談了很多,但是我講的話你不會接受,你講話我不會接受,我們都尊重,最後狀況是院會表決嘛。我們有沒有辦法今天就是嘗試性的,然後走完,超越行政決議簽的出來嗎?我這樣不在啦,假的啦。到底院長你要思考這個問題喔,我覺得話,以前也常常這樣,"},{"start":16652.351,"end":16654.772,"text":"國民黨黨團提議．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":16668.57,"end":16692.822,"text":"堆積我們過去三十年前．我們前統治國．歷史有信．你今天貴爲院長．我在這裏．在這兒建立三十年的國會．我們有義務．有責任．去維護這個國會．的民主。這是我很懇切講的話。所以希望說大家．冷靜沒有關係關係。也要去．因為我也長寬了。"},{"start":16696.98,"end":16724.659,"text":"民主沒有辦法說服的話．我們就民主程序處理．但是至少我們建行這個程序．不是直接就表決．直接表決我是絕對沒有辦法接受．這不是這樣的．我們不會接受恆河的．各位協商代表．我還是要談實質．但是我這個實質請大家認真思考一下 我知道"},{"start":16725.859,"end":16741.91,"text":"福根齊總召提出這個條文．他對花蓮．他情有獨鍾．要發展花蓮的重大建設．深感敬佩．真的是敬佩．但交通重大建設．不是這樣每一個條文我都會講"},{"start":16743.8,"end":16763.046,"text":"等下每個條文我都全部會去論述,但問題就是說我們還是卡關了。為什麼呢?各位啊,憑各位這麼偉大的一個政治家的聰明才智都很清楚,可行性評估出來以後,做可行性評估,你怎麼知道評估出來就一定要做呢?"},{"start":16764.537,"end":16785.428,"text":"你們後面前後的條文全部都已經矛盾了,你們還要求十年啊。你們這是叫做報名要吃虧的環境欸。你們是被我罵完以後,你們本來是講國發會欸,你們現在才改交通部欸。彌圖知反是很好的一件事情,知道錯了把它改過來是好事啊。但重點是,可行性評估以後,在評估什麼?"},{"start":16789.315,"end":16798.44,"text":"以我屏東來講的話：我們幾次被人家講說：我們都做了可行性評估喔：做完以後院長說：啊這個經濟效益不足啦：開箱這集啦。你先說啊把它通過了我們通過一個限期本來你們講說十年現在限期十二年完成啊如果可行性評估出來了大家認為說沒有經濟效益欸。思考一下啦而且各個政黨全部在這個地﹖啊也選一個會去啊"},{"start":16819.103,"end":16821.546,"text":"民眾黨團提議．建請院會作成決議．於新"},{"start":16838.703,"end":16857.278,"text":"都是把他當成做說,都一定要做的,一定要過的。可是你這條文的設計在我看來就不合理嘛。沒有說要求去做可行性評估,就一定說我已經有寫進去了,然後我就是贏了。那就變成是你這個條文都是寫假的啊。你那個在寫假的啊。我們不是這樣說民眾黨你們最注重財政紀律的?"},{"start":16865.819,"end":16867.226,"text":"如果可信心評估出來．會說這個經濟效益不足"},{"start":16872.654,"end":16877.235,"text":"第三條本條例所稱環島高速鐵路範圍包括宜蘭縣、花蓮縣、臺東縣及屏東縣沿線規劃之用地取得開發及環境保護等公共運輸建設及生態保育系統。」宣讀完畢。"},{"start":16897.564,"end":16917.143,"text":"各位黨團幹部我現在請教一下因為我要處理大家晚餐的事情我們下去訂晚餐那沒有意見的話我就宣布請總務員要訂晚餐了好不好大家有沒有寶貴意見有吃沒有吃都有所謂讓我能夠講話就好了好不好"},{"start":16921.81,"end":16946.64,"text":"麻煩總務部門統計一下現場的加班還有後面幕後工作夥伴有多少,請幫大家簡單定一點餐飲好了,好不好?一整門國那些的也...對,當然要,當然要,有些很辛苦。來,我們現在第一位請吳世耀委員發言。第三條,我看到條文的問題是跟第二條所寫的範圍,哪些縣市是重複的?"},{"start":16948.753,"end":16954.337,"text":"那第三條的內容我也覺得這個就條文的我不曉得他的動詞在講什麼"},{"start":16956.434,"end":16982.165,"text":"我覺得這個條文就是怪怪的是不是可以請那個提案委員說明一下為什麼第二條已經清楚的定義其實是四縣市那第三條又重複講了範圍又包括哪裡第二條跟第三條完全是重複的而且整個條文就沒有那個動詞我不知道他要ending句在那裡是什麼意思主席是不是要請提案委員說明啊提案委員從頭到尾都沒有說明條文我覺得這是很奇怪的事情"},{"start":16986.257,"end":16993.859,"text":"還有沒有其他哪位委員要發言?沒有,那我們就保留第四條。現在意見不統一,我們就保留。我們請宣讀第四條。第四條,本條立之主管機關為交通部。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":17008.631,"end":17029.525,"text":"原來這一條的條文就是我們之前認為更是即席以為不可原始的條文又有交通部又有國發會還有地方政府所以呢現在在修正條文裡頭OK把它聚焦就是單一部會叫做交通部那這樣改有沒有比較好我不知道因為這要尊重提案委員"},{"start":17030.265,"end":17051.422,"text":"所以我的建議還是我也要求一下提案委員來說明一下好嗎提案委員說明一下為什麼你們從交通部、國發會、縣市政府啊現在只濃縮成為交通部提案委員請說明好嗎主席同意就好了好不好第四條條文我沒有同意我沒有同意我們就保留提案委員說明一下提案委員說明啊問題啊不要讓好手機啦等一下等一下等一下"},{"start":17057.208,"end":17081.365,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前．於新任行"},{"start":17088.329,"end":17095.616,"text":"五條交通部因於本條例通過後立即啟動可行性評估每半年內檢討一次並於一年內會同相關部會及縣市政府制定環島高速鐵路建設推動發展計劃綱要"},{"start":17112.438,"end":17127.678,"text":"配合施工工程進展需要,全部計畫之建設完成以不逾十二年為限,擬定綜合建設方案,其內容如下。一、方案目標及實施範圍。二、高速鐵路沿線建設規劃。三、土地徵收取得。"},{"start":17128.358,"end":17148.132,"text":"四、環境綠化保護．五、配合天然觀光資源開發．六、天然災害防治．七、分期實施計畫及執行分工．八、分期財務需求及經費來源．九、其他。前項所列可行性評估內容．應送交立法院進行審查。宣讀完畢。好,請吳司堯委員,請。"},{"start":17150.033,"end":17170.853,"text":"這一條是整個條例的重中之重。國民黨跟民眾黨也共提著修了原本的原始條文。那我想就是要清楚地來說明跟探究一下,任何一個交通建設的可行性評估,尤其像這個是兆元以上的,"},{"start":17171.474,"end":17188.419,"text":"那他的可行性評估一定要有評估才會有其成。」那我手上就剛好我特別去翻出來的台灣西部走廊高速鐵路綜合規劃這個是綜合規劃可行性評估是這一本先有這一本才有這一本"},{"start":17189.651,"end":17203.938,"text":"先有這一本民國七十六年,然後才有綜合規劃。」那就這個裡頭呢,一個可行性評估進入綜合規劃,它必須要有第一個,定線與車站,包括地址、水文,怎麼通過。"},{"start":17205.282,"end":17208.004,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":17224.238,"end":17232.067,"text":"然後呢建築理念風格尺寸那每個車站是單一開發還是聯合開發之可行性車站降物設備其他配備相關的規劃這個在車站規劃"},{"start":17237.27,"end":17249.538,"text":"再來是系統及設備。我們要採取哪一國的系統?什麼樣子的車廂採購?系統及設備這非常重要,包括車輛、耗製系統、電車線系統、電信與供電系統、電信系統、電力供應、軌道與倒閘、軌道結構、軌道鋪設。"},{"start":17259.145,"end":17281.03,"text":"高速運轉安全、車輛等等,這些都是系統及設備。」這個條文都沒有寫到哦。第六章要進入土木工程與安全設施。土木工程與安全設施包括橫斷面是不是有隧道,隧道要經過幾個,土方的工程,土壤的結構,整個地震的防護。"},{"start":17282.431,"end":17290.373,"text":"等安全設施外務干擾的偵測,因為如果新進一些山區可能會有我們的黑熊還是什麼的,這些都是必須要做的。」"},{"start":17291.698,"end":17302.241,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於"},{"start":17320.565,"end":17331.43,"text":"有多少土地是要去購地．有多少土地是要去拆遷、補償．用不同的財務試算．去做這些土地的徵得．還有援助民族地區．這些都不能夠跳躍的．好,環境影響評估．我就不贅述了．有自然環境、生態環境．社會環境、經濟環境等等"},{"start":17343.61,"end":17353.911,"text":"這些都是一個必要．後面當然還有營運端．好保握時間我就不多說．所以沒有這些清楚的．評估你怎麼定出十二年"},{"start":17355.296,"end":17375.206,"text":"原始是十年也許聽到我們的呼籲認為說好更嚴謹十二年可是你們的說法很粗糙當初我們的高鐵是花了二十年從可行性評估到最後的興建完成營運那你們的說法就只有一個現在時代進步了技術進步了所以就可以快速就可以快速就變成"},{"start":17378.305,"end":17406.439,"text":"高鐵可以二十年,現在就從十年變到十二年。」我也不知道這個怎麼算來的。好,那這個條文最可疑、最不可行的就最後一項。這些可行性評估要送立法院審查。所以,送審查那是什麼意思?審查完才可以通過嗎?大家都知道,如果以這些審查真的要送立法院審查的話,我想洪孟凱委員都在交通委員會,你相對都知道,"},{"start":17407.54,"end":17408.893,"text":"一本要審查多久。」"},{"start":17409.932,"end":17437.433,"text":"在立法院審議的期程不用算嗎?這會不會影響你們的十二年完工的預判呢?時程的預判呢?那基本上我是認為交通專業送到立法院審查這是很奇怪的事情就如同你們要把電價調漲要送立法院審查是一樣用政治零價專業的事情所以就以這個重中之重的環島高鐵的第五條樣樣相向都不合理不可行"},{"start":17438.482,"end":17460.153,"text":"然後我再一次請求提案委員請說明您的條文為什麼是這樣寫主席未要抗議提案委員又戴上他的耳機我不曉得在聽英文歌台語歌還是在聽什麼廣播電台提案委員戴上了他的耳機現在我叫呼喚他他也不看我一眼顯然就是沒有在聽音樂吧"},{"start":17461.574,"end":17484.197,"text":"這是尊重我們的協商嗎?提案委員提出一個要一兆以上的環島高鐵,拒絕說明條文。我們在認真的討論,他戴上他的耳機聽音樂,請問主席您要不要制止一下呢?這是立委之間對於自己職權的尊重吧?主席您是不是要制止一下呢?那請問提案委員要不要說明這麼重要的條文?"},{"start":17485.43,"end":17494.502,"text":"是不是應該說明?院長是不是應該說明?我會徵詢提案委員好不好,請稍待,但是其實你往左邊看一看"},{"start":17496.001,"end":17524.317,"text":"我不好意思講太多嘛。大家都傷感情嘛。好不好。他在找資料。我知道我知道。他在找資料。對。這邊也可能也在。不是。我都不講。因為他也有可能在找資料。所以我為什麼我都尊重每個委員。因為我不好講嘛。這事要委員你這樣講弄得我必須這樣。好不好提醒。提案委員要不要簡短二要的說明一下。謝謝。這五條說明一下嘛。因為好重要的條文。本席認為說他們今天這裡有誠意要協商。"},{"start":17525.694,"end":17547.817,"text":"不會說禮拜一鬧了一整天都沒有談這兩條今天兩點鐘開始到六點鐘才開始逐條而且逐條之前他們已經宣布了他們會申請大法官釋憲他們完全反對那完全反對我要跟他們說明什麼我不懂你完全反對都講明了你要釋憲"},{"start":17551.195,"end":17552.457,"text":"所以他們現在就是要過場,那過場就過場,就這樣好不好?"},{"start":17570.346,"end":17580.575,"text":"立法院還沒有說．從一開始協商都還沒有開始．就說我們要送大法官釋憲．這就是執政者的傲慢．都已經講成這樣．我們認為有一件不能送釋憲嗎．"},{"start":17597.132,"end":17600.733,"text":"院長施政方針報告及本院配合延會相關事宜。」相關事宜。"},{"start":19165.274,"end":19166.675,"text":"各位黨團幹部,我們現在繼續開會,我們現在在討論到第五條。"},{"start":19177.213,"end":19201.42,"text":"院長,我們現在要第五還是要第六?第五嗎?第五條,我來跟各位協商代表來分享。因為第五條這邊提到了,當然提到一大堆,然後去限期十二年為限,然後去擬定綜合建設的一個方案,內容啪啦啪啦啪啦,寫了一大堆,然後所前向"},{"start":19202.18,"end":19215.4,"text":"所列的可信性評估．內容應該送立法院來進行審查。」審查這個語意也不清,這似乎就是說一定要通過立法院的審查,不然要審查意義在什麼地方。"},{"start":19217.577,"end":19246.676,"text":"既然去提到可行性評估．這就更凸顯了這個計劃的一個荒謬現在五二零以後叫做賴政府不是花蓮縣政府國會裡面當然現在新的國會當然有新的名義但總統其實他也有是新的未來的總統五二零就職以後也是新的名義就職以後叫做賴政府那所有的重大的一個建設"},{"start":19247.897,"end":19272.902,"text":"我相信發動是賴政府,不是花蓮政府。」那尤其是談到這個可行性評估這一點不要開玩笑不要開玩笑就是說我們都很清楚可行性評估裡面一定要講說一定要去審查一些比如說民間的參與的一個效率然後市場的可行性甚至於講到說我們要來蓋這一條"},{"start":19275.442,"end":19285.605,"text":"花東的高鐵到底技術可不可行．甚至於財務的可行性．法律的可行性．跟土地取得的可行性．跟環境影響．最後當然還會有公聽的問題．"},{"start":19290.627,"end":19308.064,"text":"那裡面涉及到最嚴重的問題就是說你到底在整個可行性評估裡面經濟可行性的一個評估裡面你總要去估看看它的成本到底是多少那你的收益的預測到底是多少把財務去做一個評估"},{"start":19309.803,"end":19322.985,"text":"這個有中華民國從中國國民黨從大陸中國退守到台灣重大建設一個健全的政府我們這幾年來全部都是這樣做馬政府如此"},{"start":19324.218,"end":19344.483,"text":"蔡政府如此。」我相信未來的政府也是一樣是如此那整部憲法五權憲法也是你們從中國那邊給人家搬過來那現在也徵修條文也沒有改幾條針對這部分也沒有去改那整個行政權的一個發動對整個重大建設的一個發動"},{"start":19346.043,"end":19364.09,"text":"那你們現在就變成在立法院因為你們多數你們認為說立法院可以做決定既然要談到可行性評估更可以凸顯到說你可行性評估完評估了你要工程概算整個工程概算那立法院反而是我們來做審查"},{"start":19366.544,"end":19372.067,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長"},{"start":19385.453,"end":19413.795,"text":"全部這些預算,你們都是反對到底。」這上一屆就是這樣子啊,就是這一張啊。你看這邊就講得很清楚,沒有可行性評估,不得偏對預算,當初你們就一直在反對的。那你們現在不是,你們現在是用捅包的一個方式,一個方式,想到哪裡就做到哪裡,愛怎麼做就怎麼做。一個血稅喔,你就把它看一個血稅喔,光他從開始開工,到他完工,"},{"start":19415.336,"end":19422.522,"text":"就花了一、二十年的一個時間,光一個學歲,十二點多公里而已啦。那我們現在環島高鐵,這個也欺世盜名啊,這個叫花東高鐵啦,就叫花東高鐵。花東高鐵好不好?花東高鐵當然會很好,但"},{"start":19433.69,"end":19454.601,"text":"推動的方式還是真的是要以逐案去做一個推動按照一般的一個重大工程的程序來不要去想說用跳躍的一個方式緊記我們立法院在審重大預算的時候任何的一個重大工程超過十億"},{"start":19456.226,"end":19480.016,"text":"都不是單一部會啊。你交通部要發個失意,就抱歉,沒有那麼容易,也不是你交通部。你要送到公共工程委員會去做同意啊。所以呢,省到這個第五條在講可行性評估的時候,更可以看到這個整部啊,整部一個條例裡面的一個荒謬性啊。財務評估到底是多少?"},{"start":19481.087,"end":19489.851,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前"},{"start":19498.504,"end":19501.146,"text":"謝謝莊瑞學委員的發言。接下來請吳思耀委員發言。副分級委員請準備。"},{"start":19528.184,"end":19547.457,"text":"那如何去落實永續經營的精神都要藉由事前的專業審查評估來納入導入那就包括要導入可行性評估環境影響評估環差評估財務評估等等之後呢有了這個永續經營灌入的"},{"start":19548.397,"end":19566.429,"text":"完整的評估之後才能夠循預算的騎乘來編列預算然後事後來落實配套這是最新的觀念讓交通建設能夠永續經營提供民眾穩定便捷安全的運輸系統這是李昆澤委員他表達他高度的遺憾"},{"start":19567.009,"end":19574.351,"text":"他作為立法院現今在交通委員會最最專業的委員又是此屆的召委又是負責審查環島高鐵條例的交通委員會的召委之一他認為他的意見沒有辦法在這裡納入他覺得非常遺憾請我無論如何一定要轉達"},{"start":19583.474,"end":19608.122,"text":"那另外呢因為這個條文是進入騎乘跟可行性評估剛休息的時間我再把這一本哈已經是納入這個國會圖書館珍藏的哈現行的台灣西部走廊高速鐵路可行性研究評估裡頭我再把就用其中一頁來論述哈那這是提案委員應當說明的提案委員又離場了哈也就是這有一個很清楚的年限表"},{"start":19609.366,"end":19638.442,"text":"第一階段要建立計畫管理制度第二階段運輸規劃第三階段是工程概念分析第四階段是經濟與財務第五階段當然要進入整個結論建議這樣是一個完整的交通的可行性評估所以它會落在所有的期程總共的年限第一階段要走幾年第二階段走幾年然後彼此還會有重疊的實現所以如果以現在的台灣的高鐵的話是花了十三年的可行性評估的"},{"start":19638.882,"end":19640.608,"text":"任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":19645.1,"end":19669.82,"text":"需要來貼合來思考．如果沒有這樣的專業評估．我們如何在這個條文裡頭提出要十二年．所以再一次請求我們的提案委員．傅坤杰委員又離場了．這個條文他真的無論如何應當說明．為什麼原本是十年現在變十二年．那他的提案有沒有經過這樣子的一個嚴謹的程序．然後剛剛李坤澤召委所詢問的．"},{"start":19671.101,"end":19692.433,"text":"在傅文綺委員提案的環島高鐵,其實他應該正名叫做四線式高鐵,不是環島高鐵。那這個四線式高鐵有沒有能夠導入永續經營的理念呢?所以提案委員應當適宜,好嗎?那這個條文我沒有辦法支持,再次表達。謝謝吳司長的發言,等一下柯總統發言之前我補一句話。"},{"start":19694.074,"end":19717.773,"text":"李坤哲、趙偉剛剛講的那個他經驗之談也善意的提醒我們黨團幹部我想如果各位黨團都同意尤其村城兄也在這裡下一次我們到法案的時候我在發朝野協商開會通知的時候我一定會列入該法案相關的召集委員來這裡備詢一旦不是備詢對不起參與朝野協商那他"},{"start":19718.902,"end":19738.874,"text":"一旦來這裡開會的時候,他自然可以獲得發言,這樣又不用很尷尬的每一次還要爭取,好不好?如果各位黨團都同意的話,因為的確是有道理。好,好,因為不見得每個黨團幹部都通通的了解。好,那我們接下來請柯總召、傅坤祺總召請準備,請。好,韓院長。韓院長。對,好。"},{"start":19748.547,"end":19752.112,"text":"黨團．建請院會作成決議．於新黨黨團．建請院會作成決議．於新黨黨團提議．"},{"start":19766.511,"end":19782.043,"text":"來處於一個朝野商專門法案預算的朝野商出席人數到底是怎麼樣?應該怎麼樣?那個才是一個完整化的東西。尤其現在已經很多法案已經進入表決期。我們接下來我要提醒我們"},{"start":19783.599,"end":19801.741,"text":"國民社會預算也馬上要協商,還有特別預算、最佳預算也馬上協商。所以我們要把這個機制完整的建立,這個是比較重要。把這個建立以後,後面就照這個途徑去走。"},{"start":19803.897,"end":19829.952,"text":"這些都是行之有年,行之有年。徵罪的第五條,第五條我的看法是這樣,國民黨原來提案版本,這個是國安會,國安會,然後十年給它數年,那現在給它交付,交付。當然不可能這麼大的預算,這麼大的一個規劃是國安會所能完成的。"},{"start":19831.161,"end":19853.376,"text":"我們看過去高鐵從民國七十六年開始做可信心評估做了三年到七十九年七十九年以後到八十一年就是兩年時間可信評估通過以後才被核定然後開始八十八年的時候開始動工"},{"start":19856.515,"end":19863.589,"text":"經過七年,經過到九十六年才完工所以這個整個一趟走二十年"},{"start":19864.81,"end":19892.743,"text":"然後我們現在既然把這個條文改回前向所略可疑性評估,面容應送立法院予以審查。這個前向都是本來吳志堯所強的,包括方案目標十四期,延遲規劃,物力增收等等,立法保護等等,總共有九款,還有其他。"},{"start":19893.823,"end":19909.476,"text":"所以這個條文就是把這個突然加上這個東西這個是完全毫無政治介入毫無專業因為好委員不可能有能力去審查這代表是怎麼樣能力的政治周秀舞臺要是國民黨會有這種這種發想的話"},{"start":19916.379,"end":19939.355,"text":"這個選項所謂的肯定評估一送一完就審查。啊審查的結果呢?過與不過?與何?當然是國會的表決嘛。但是國民黨就想說,現在藍白合起來,國會過半。這個東西就用政治來處理表決這個就好了。這個是把招致心路人皆知。"},{"start":19940.39,"end":19966.175,"text":"和這個題目有關的就是說．我們第一次朝野商有關立法院決議案．動盪墊架、動盪墊架。民眾黨各有一個動盪墊架。但是民眾黨都提議一個叫章化軍艇進展案．一個浮華圖。那個浮華圖大家都知道．章化在九座浮華圖。我們過個季裡面。"},{"start":19967.475,"end":19995.115,"text":"那再干預紅花爐當然當地反對嘛那反對的時候大家都知道不應該再蓋但是紅花窗用一個政治意義介入就是提一個一個結案在立法院表決就是要立即停工就是政治意義介入嘛這個所有的蓋的下幹不下這個合約依照合約走有一個規定這個下去就把它停掉"},{"start":19996.525,"end":20008.332,"text":"只要,就像一樣的,這種邏輯就是一樣,用現在藍白國會各辦介入所欲卻。這是一個非常荒謬而且惡質的一個寫法。"},{"start":20009.878,"end":20027.533,"text":"高鐵這麼專業的沒有一個立法委員搞得懂。都要經過繁長的過程。為了想一想,高鐵到一半的時候曾經才會發生問題,再修改郵遞條例,"},{"start":20030.915,"end":20047.972,"text":"本來政府出資不能只有25,還要49,讓政府多出資,然後還有放寬股介入、投入,才能夠把他財富稍微改善做得下去,那這個事情修這個東西的時候還在另外一邊脫鉤表決。"},{"start":20049.488,"end":20070.806,"text":"但是這個還是高鐵也蓋不下去。還是蓋不下去。最後在馬英九下台以前,時任人某,時任黨毛澤國,他本身是政府部長啊。所以高鐵怎麼辦?那時候有一個採改計畫,但那採改計畫必須在立法院通過。"},{"start":20072.386,"end":20088.906,"text":"但是呢,所有的立法委員都反對。不管朝委的立法委員都反對。但是我獨排綜藝。我說這個東西,這樣子的話,高鐵停下來以後,是造成整個交通黑暗區非常嚴重。"},{"start":20089.947,"end":20103.873,"text":"所以後來才有,潘志祥以後,董事長以後招募,劉慧淇董事長,他以前是中國的總經理,不過他那個人蠻專業的,我和他好好合作,把這個高鐵的擇救時間拉長。"},{"start":20105.794,"end":20120.024,"text":"中國國民黨黨團提議：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院長施政方針報告前："},{"start":20121.045,"end":20130.409,"text":"這個整個高鐵,坦白講,曾經發生過高鐵蓋一半的時候,賴清德總統說這個以後變成廢鐵。走過這樣的高鐵這麼長的時間,前陣子我碰到殷琦董事長,他要寫高鐵的一個回憶錄,但是後來他覺得寫完不肯出版。"},{"start":20145.374,"end":20174.654,"text":"為什麼?他是用,到底是這麼一個複雜的東西,有無道公司介入,有包機電,有包主婦的,等等。這樣行行的時候,所以要從他的角度看,他覺得北韓人不一定相信。從這裡就是看得出來,我們這個條文齁,第五條這個條文齁,把他全部交給立法院來審議,就是表示政治要介入。"},{"start":20175.414,"end":20177.655,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告及本院配合延會相關事宜。」相關事宜。"},{"start":20201.202,"end":20226.527,"text":"謝謝柯建民總召的發言。專委員瑞雄您還要再發言嗎?我想再發言一下因為這個重大的建設我知道對花東很重要但是我還是要再次的再強調就是說一個重大工程重大計畫的一個提出真的是要審慎而且不是用這樣的一個立法的一個方式"},{"start":20227.687,"end":20242.94,"text":"光在藍白合作提出這個法案．你看從主管機關．從到底要不要可行性評估．他去做去做修正了．要去做可行性評估．其實現在就可以我也贊成"},{"start":20244.844,"end":20263.036,"text":"我贊成去做可行性評估,但是可行性評估不是立法院到最後來審查。可行性評估做了以後,你就必須要去概估這個工程的一個預算到底有多少,這個院長你當過市長你會很清楚。我去可行性評估啦!"},{"start":20266.557,"end":20295.387,"text":"我認為說技術上可行我認為土地取得也都沒有問題我認為這個環評也會通過因為環評也會同期也可以同期來自己的來一起一起來做但是可行性評估可能會比環評會更快完成可是重點來啦重點就是說我可行性評估出來的過程裡面我必須要去概括估這個預算假設我估出來是一兆不要說兩兆估出來是一兆"},{"start":20297.065,"end":20306.934,"text":"你估出來以後你到最後你說好那我就要有這個整個綜合規劃那我這個綜合規劃我不能去發包請這些專業機構去發包發包完以後說綜合規劃出來了要有人合併"},{"start":20313.223,"end":20328.138,"text":"那我請問是賴政府來核定還是你立法院來核定你就把整個政府從有政府到現在的一個重大公共工程建設你全部把它給顛覆掉了我再次強調的就是說各縣市我們都知道他們想要有重大建設這個是好事那來做可行性評估這個其實都可以支持"},{"start":20337.267,"end":20346.294,"text":"可是呢你現在不是要好像要用因為我在立法院人數比較多我就用通過一個條例把你給框住了你非做不可真的是這樣子嗎"},{"start":20348.12,"end":20348.7,"text":"國民黨黨團提議．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":20378.286,"end":20379.828,"text":"任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前。"},{"start":20393.45,"end":20418.798,"text":"這個院長的耐心真的讓我們很佩服啊。同樣的劉森基啊,從禮拜一的協商已經轉了大概一百多次,今天又持續轉了。他們三位的發言完全沒有改變。但是可以每一次...你就亂講啦,我就有意見。請尊重我的發言。你就有意見啦。待會你有意見,你待會再講。你就亂講啊。我先講,待會你再講再講。你就亂講啊。因為你要點名我嘛。你剛剛有沒有點名我?我說花蓮,我沒有講李富坤祺好不好?"},{"start":20421.459,"end":20430.527,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長"},{"start":20450.399,"end":20462.269,"text":"他們從頭到尾就在羞辱。羞辱好像不應該去做這樣的環島高鐵。也羞辱了韓院長今年在二月份告訴"},{"start":20463.946,"end":20483.68,"text":"陳建仁院長,這就是台灣已經是這麼先進的國家,早就該做的事情,但是政府就是不願意做,所以國會議員本來就應該要耳提面面告訴政府必須要來做這個事情,過去的條例,過去的條例本來就有這些條例,我們一再強調"},{"start":20485.659,"end":20494.131,"text":"我不願意把錄音機再轉一次但他們轉了一百多次而且不斷的醜化不斷的醜化用民進黨一貫的詐騙的方式不斷的誤導在講這個細節"},{"start":20499.963,"end":20504.747,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前：於"},{"start":20523.463,"end":20550.12,"text":"在這裡詐騙所有在這裡詐騙所有不懂的人我們要再次強調條例過了以後交通部該怎麼做他會循序漸進去做這些都是一個基本的常識你不用在那邊專程錄影啊真是都有錄影啊你民進黨的助理不用在那邊這個都有啦不用在那邊假裝在那邊錄影這個上網通通都有啦不用在那邊故意在那邊錄影我要特別強調"},{"start":20552.101,"end":20573.892,"text":"新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施"},{"start":20578.991,"end":20588.765,"text":"在立法院發聲過提出的這些特別條例,不管是在民國九十年十月十一號三讀通過,"},{"start":20590.123,"end":20615.176,"text":"廖學廣委員所提出的《基隆河流域整治特別條例》通過了以後,行政院也執行了。剛剛也講到了,林鄭峰委員所提的,包括40個委員連署,民進黨也有,石門水庫及集水區整治特別條例,在95年1月13日三讀通過,行政院也執行了。當然,可能當時的政府"},{"start":20616.527,"end":20639.773,"text":"是可以順應國會．國會提醒他有些沒做到的事．要盡快積極的來做．所以當時的政府有做．可能沒有像現在如此的傲慢．如此的跋扈．能夠在這裡．每一條用同樣的方式都罵一次．就是很簡單．今天我認為他們到今天為止．"},{"start":20641.499,"end":20664.319,"text":"把所有不應該討論的細項,這都應該交通部專業去處理的。」故意在這裡不斷的repeat。重點就是要不斷的把在野黨汙名化。在野黨醜化。他們三個人有講過多少次?什麼我跟黃國昌怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣?從頭到尾三個人講了多少次?"},{"start":20665.353,"end":20688.648,"text":"民眾黨團提議．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院長施政方針報告前�"},{"start":20690.578,"end":20699.551,"text":"也公然恐嚇我們,但是這是回應廣大民意我們必須要做的事情。我們也不會接受任何的賄賂,任何的交換條件,"},{"start":20701.48,"end":20730.122,"text":"用什麼地方的建設來交換明天不要審查國會改革相關的法令那不可能的事情那不可能的事國家至上國會改革是絕對重中之重我們一定要來進行我想今天就是要故意拖延時間我覺得因為今天柯總召已經一語道破了就即便立法院三讀通過他們要提釋憲他們也不會做我覺得在這裡"},{"start":20731.443,"end":20755.371,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．三、繼續研商新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．三、繼續研商新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．三、繼續研商新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．三、繼續研商新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．三、繼續研商新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．三、繼續研商新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．三、繼續研商新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．三、繼續研商新任行政院院院長施政方針報告前．三、繼續�"},{"start":20759.946,"end":20763.732,"text":"花費很大的周章來保護院長．讓國會的尊嚴．一事能夠順暢．"},{"start":20767.267,"end":20793.653,"text":"我們要再次強調,國民黨絕對有決心,讓陽光照進來。我想是不是院長,他們不斷的那種留聲機,不斷的一直repeat repeat 的,人身攻擊,然後對建設的攻擊。我覺得你完全喪失啊,所謂主導討論。你表達你的意見不願意,你不同意就算了。對不對?但是不是每一條都要做人身攻擊。是不是院長就直接裁審好了?"},{"start":20795.188,"end":20799.451,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．"},{"start":20825.708,"end":20848.127,"text":"我還是拜託他兩、二加一。」這個也回應了莊惠雄委員一一之問我一一之問我說我對高鐵怎麼把它當成盲腸我一個字都不說因為過兩天卓鴻泰院長要來拜訪我一樣環島高鐵東部台灣跟西部台灣要連成一條線讓整個台灣生命力放出來第三個就是下一代一定要中英文雙語全面實施"},{"start":20849.248,"end":20865.815,"text":"這個我一定會跟卓榮泰院長報告所以專業協會委員一直說我好像對於高屏這一段高鐵看為盲腸我都糊塗了我總是想把台灣連成一條線我一併做一個澄清你大概講了五六次我都沒有回話所以過幾天卓院長來我會重申一遍我的理想"},{"start":20867.23,"end":20884.676,"text":"我知道。但是呢,整個台灣連成一條線,生命力放出來,這是我個人期待。高鐵做完的時候我找到去西方極樂世界報到啦,開玩笑。但是,我們要為子孫留一些東西。所以我跟陳建成院長鼓勵,我也希望卓院長能夠接納。那這些法條,"},{"start":20885.416,"end":20912.673,"text":"都是我們要照部來審是我們立法院的權責我沒有別的意思所以我盡可能維持公平我要把我心裡的話也跟各位黨團幹部來報告所以第四條、第五條我們就一樣保留當然今天也辛苦了大家真的很累了我們就留待下次協商。等一下我講給端端講。好,我們散會。一會兒再講。陳志遠院長昨天在報紙上講很清楚要尊重行政權啦你搞一個問題在那邊先挖個樓局不衝再胡說八道"},{"start":20917.961,"end":20919.198,"text":"新任行政院院長施政方針報告前．三、繼續研商"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}