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剛剛有看到吧"},{"start":56.36,"end":77.537,"text":"我們再放一次好了這裡有51班喔對,51班齁那我們後川國小的這個位置就在科學園區的旁邊你們看一下這是一個小型的一個室內的一個運動場一個運動的一個區域"},{"start":81.087,"end":104.734,"text":"那後莊國小的位置就在科學園區旁邊那竹科的員工上個月已經有17萬8633人比起五年前增加了兩萬五千人左右竹科飽和帶來的外溢效益讓很多的新竹上班的人選擇搬到苗栗的竹南跟投奉當然我們非常非常歡迎他們到苗栗來那"},{"start":108.503,"end":133.257,"text":"我們在2022年的時候成為少數人口一路正成長的一個縣市更值得一提的是到去年2月到今年2月一年之間涉及在頭份竹南的人口增加了2117人近三年大概增加了6000人每一年以1%的這個速度成長在整個台灣來講是非常少見的"},{"start":134.724,"end":141.965,"text":"那現在竹南頭份市區的國中國小幾乎都是額滿的我們面臨的是學校小孩子根本就沒有教室上課"},{"start":142.932,"end":165.324,"text":"那接下來桃竹苗大溪谷計畫的推動我想我們預估未來會增加14萬個工作機會那可預期的就是孩子的這個受教的一個問題其實桃竹苗大溪谷計畫當初在核定的時候配套就包含要確保水電無虞嘛交通的順暢醫療充足員工居住跟子女教育的部分"},{"start":166.226,"end":191.212,"text":"沒錯吧,我們當初也涵蓋在這裡面那我們以南科來說增加台南、高雄、嘉義、屏東園區園區裡面每一個園區都有一所實驗的學校我們不是說別人有,我們苗栗也要有但是苗栗確實有這個需要那我們再看一下剛剛下一張照片這個好"},{"start":195.766,"end":222.409,"text":"這是二月中我們開的一個座談會來參與的都是家長這個人數是爆滿的我們希望因應園區的發展小孩子的就業需求在竹南科學園區裡面設立實驗中學那目前我們中縣長也已經找好了地是縣府的地大概有九公頃左右那地由地方出中央出錢一起合作我們那天的座談會教育部有派人來參加"},{"start":224.302,"end":240.795,"text":"教育部目前應該是沒有什麼問題現在就等院長跟國科會我們這邊點頭我不知道院長的意思呢非常感謝邱委員如此關心教育的問題能夠關心下一代是我們必須該做的重要的事情"},{"start":241.601,"end":256.701,"text":"那隨著科學園區的增加產業的發展我們需要更多的這種教育的設施空間所以我想無論從硬體軟體 絲織各方面來十足的增加都必須要的而且"},{"start":258.069,"end":282.45,"text":"委員所說的已經不是光是教育部的問題了我們的實驗中學 與其在科學園區的實驗中學都是國科會要全面來規劃來執行的所以國科會吳主委也一直在討論這個事情那我也相當的了解 目前進度過程吳主委來答覆我們請吳主委講一下我們科學園區實驗中學需要在園區籌設計畫抱怨"},{"start":284.994,"end":292.153,"text":"核定及取得學校用地產權後才能夠進行評估規劃現在縣府已經找到地"},{"start":294.015,"end":317.304,"text":"目前我們整個產業的需求現在還沒有很明確因為原來竹南科學園區的這個土地上次院長也去看過現在縣政府所規劃的三塊地其實都不符合現在產業的需求我想問主委我們大溪谷計畫是不是確定會推動"},{"start":319.218,"end":332.984,"text":"已經核定了但是地方政府要配合當然當然我們絕對會配合就是說那既然要推動是不是小孩子就這個教育的問題受教的問題是不是要優先考量而且要提早來進行因為"},{"start":333.803,"end":351.999,"text":"孩子的成長只有一次他沒有辦法重來也不能等他錯過了這一次機會如果我們慢了一年他的未來就影響到是比較快速的方法是趕快在既有的學校趕快擴充問題他剛剛我講了他那個土地只有1.8公尺因為需要要成立科學園區的實驗中學"},{"start":353.58,"end":370.512,"text":"是有他的一些既定的這個辦法我想委員非常清楚我們要做很完善的調查這位委員報告這個部長也跟鍾縣長有過接觸有討論過那目前這個部長在教育部裡面的作業我請部長來說明"},{"start":372.715,"end":389.439,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心竹南竹苗地區的一些從小學國中到高中的一些教育的一個機會的提供跟教育品質上的一個確保確實我們也看到竹苗這三個縣是因為科學園區的一個進駐"},{"start":395.192,"end":403.2,"text":"這個人口是在增加的所以我們在今年的一月對目前的竹苗八所的高中我們已經撥了3,507萬先用來增班"},{"start":408.798,"end":436.438,"text":"這是一個馬上立即可以改善我跟妳報告那跟委員報告那另外我們也核定就是說從今年開始我們這一個苗栗縣投訓國中的西社校社二十千的教師的工程經費有一億七千將近八千萬這一個用來希望能夠趕快增設這個學校我想另外還有一個苗栗的這個大同高中跟"},{"start":437.098,"end":451.994,"text":"新華高中我們也給予這一個經費的補助都希望從快速的校舍的徵建學校的成立部長你講的沒錯這是一般的校舍啦一般的校舍其實當初我們中央補助了非常多的一個實驗教室實驗室"},{"start":454.016,"end":470.173,"text":"那現在這些實驗室根本就是已經拿來當作教室在用了所以學生連實驗室都沒有這個部分本來就是要解決那我們提的實驗中學它其實的目的是在於說因為我們很多這個園區的員工的子女受教的問題"},{"start":470.934,"end":490.381,"text":"一般來說如果我們家不成立未來我們苗栗縣的這些搬到苗栗縣的來這些園區的員工的子女他未來要到新竹去念實驗中學是不可能的他進不去的所以我們是希望把人才留在苗栗才會跟我們中間來提這件事情你懂我意思嗎"},{"start":492.571,"end":509.801,"text":"不過我們是已經跟縣政府有討論過這個事我們竹科管理局也是很積極在協助那我們希望苗栗縣政府趕快先進行擴建用地規劃這個規劃還是要符合我們產業需求這個規劃完成以後我們竹科管理局會"},{"start":510.781,"end":538.749,"text":"取得產權之後土地規劃完,用地取得你不能先核地嗎?先准他嗎?他就可以先前作業嘛,不是嗎?要先前作業,現在可能性評估在做可是現在三塊用地其實是並不符合我們現在講的重要產業他的這個需求啦那當然啦,這個縣府我這是另外一個層面我們當然會加緊腳步跟中央好好的配合啦那我現在講的就是說這個部分我們不能拿出來先來做一個事前的一個準備嘛"},{"start":539.99,"end":566.093,"text":"讓我們在後續才能夠知道我們下一步要做什麼委員剛剛主委講說現在的土地評估起來不是很適合也請委員拜託我們到對地方了解有沒有更好的地點我們可以再繼續做評估那原則上我這樣問好了我們院長主委部長你們支不支持我們大溪谷計畫的園區裡面我們住在園區裡面增設一所實驗中學你支持嗎我們評估"},{"start":568.13,"end":591.048,"text":"確定有這個需求我們當然一定會盡力來協助現在我就覺得 你就答應我就好了嘛不是 我們還是評估因為用地取得對啦 我知道啦 我的意思是說你既然大溪谷計畫既然要確定要實施那為什麼學校我認為趨勢上我們應該要提早因應做準備但是如果沒有找到合適的地點 大小"},{"start":592.009,"end":610.095,"text":"他的位置的土地那也是沒有辦法執行所以趕快來找找看適合的地點是何在我們就進行來評估如何來設置怎麼樣規模內容的一個怎麼樣學校但地點要先有著落好的土地的問題我們來解決啦那我們會支持孩子受教的問題嗎對不對"},{"start":612.168,"end":641.394,"text":"是是是,我們當然那個桃中原大氣谷的這個發展已經在行政院通過了我們科學園區管理局會積極來協助因為你看嘉義、嘉科、平科、時中111年核定,113年八月就開始招生了他現在還沒蓋好他當然土地的問題這個我知道,那我們回去加緊腳步那請我們主委跟我們部長還院長大家一起來努力來推動這件事情好嗎"},{"start":642.294,"end":670.157,"text":"好 謝謝部長請回那接下來我再請問我們的院長我們賴清同總統上週在宣布這個17項策略之後人民還有各行各業普遍都感覺到台灣的民主變了調雖然總統沒有宣布戰爭也沒有宣布戒嚴但是對外就是進入了準戰爭的時期對內呢就是實施類戒嚴"},{"start":671.26,"end":699.77,"text":"那賴總統說中國大陸危險嚴重我們有召開或者是參加這個緊急的因應會議嗎有就開了幾次這一次兩次都有參加那院長你認為台灣是一個民主國家嗎當然是我也認同你剛剛講的但是我覺得讓我們覺得我們賴清德總統賴政府正在複製一段歷史"},{"start":700.595,"end":728.655,"text":"一樣的反共一樣的反民族主義的口號一樣的製造內部跟外部的敵人一樣的利用抹黑的手段媒體抹黑的手段一樣的藉體發揮面對不同的聲音一樣的貼標籤然後要做司法的變革一樣的政治目的目的就是要消滅我們在野黨你有沒有覺得這個似曾相識絕對非如此我們只是在面對境外"},{"start":730.062,"end":755.023,"text":"敵對勢力對我們不斷的併吞跟滲透的意圖我們築起一道更高更堅固自我防衛的高牆這絕對不是準戰爭的行為這是自我防衛的決心自我防衛的責任就是說我們現在賴政府所做的事情跟希特勒非常相似完全不一樣那我們總統講一句話我們就要恢復軍事審判這個不是獨裁嗎"},{"start":757.617,"end":785.747,"text":"當然不是 軍事審判我再說明他只有針對現役軍人的五種軍事犯罪叛亂 利敵 泄密 廢止職務以及抗命軍人不能有這五種行為有這五種行為就是軍事審判我們總統公開宣布了30分鐘那台灣人民可能有一半以上就開始擔心以後的生活那按照民主法制的精神恢復軍事審判制度要不要修法"},{"start":786.67,"end":815.443,"text":"我們會啟動所有相關的修法包括軍法官人士的條例我們也要有更有經驗跟民主素養的軍法官來處理這些案子草案你有沒有正在處理啊什麼時候要提呢我希望我們在一個月內提了之後會跟社會溝通嗎當然我們現在所有的立法過程都必須跟社會也要跟大院溝通對啦 不要總統一宣布你們就配合著修法我認為爭取社會"},{"start":816.463,"end":832.478,"text":"的認同更重要我們會啟動相關必要的程序這才是民主國家啦跟委員報告我想我們在研擬的過程當中都要跟社會各界保持溝通也要跟這個相關的這些專業人士來進行諮商這樣子"},{"start":833.599,"end":852.12,"text":"那根據中華民國憲法總統是可以宣戰也可以宣布戒嚴公布法令發布命令但是我沒有聽過總統一句話就可以把這個現有的法律直接改掉的那要不要恢復軍事審判這是一個嚴肅的問題我們可以認真對待這件事情嗎 院長"},{"start":854.159,"end":873.822,"text":"這個朝野的委員在過去也都有這樣相關的提案所以不是總統的一句話總統宣示一個政策出來之後民主國家按照民主的程序來完成所有相關立法跟配套這是現在我們必須馬上開始要做的所以立法的也都要經過立法院的同意啊"},{"start":874.582,"end":895.072,"text":"這個不是說我們相關這樣一下宣布就可以進行因為我們研擬完之後跟這一個專業人士諮商跟社會溝通者還是要送大院來審議好,我希望你們講的要照做就是說你們常常在喊的是沒有討論就沒有民主我希望你們不要"},{"start":896.775,"end":915.209,"text":"一邊講一種話回來講了又另外一種話那我們當然是不允許我們的國軍裡面有人做出危害國家安危的事情那但是你們現在對外一致的回答讓民眾覺得你在告訴大家馬英九任內我們兩岸溝通非常良好非常和平"},{"start":916.038,"end":926.703,"text":"蔡英文任內呢 也還算穩定所以沒有軍法的重啟軍法的這個必要那現在我們賴總統一上任之後就認為軍機就變換散了就準備開戰了現在是這個原因嗎"},{"start":932.125,"end":956.158,"text":"我們外面的解讀是這樣我想院長已經一切的說明了這個我想我們就已經限縮為現役軍人犯軍人職務上是犯罪這跟這個戒嚴沒有任何的關聯不然我再問你你過去是支持廢除軍事法庭的那你要為你過去的審判制度道歉嗎"},{"start":957.333,"end":984.88,"text":"我想我們現在要來的是一個重新打造一個新的符合公平審判原則跟正當法律原則的一個新的您的意思是說你2013年當時你還是顧立雄律師的時候你的失律不周、倉促行事盧蟒而廢除的軍事審判是錯的嗎?我想當時的軍事審判制度有違憲的地方有這個不符合公平法律設計的地方那時候為什麼不改要廢呢?"},{"start":986.04,"end":1003.048,"text":"當時我並不是國防部長所以你現在你現在擔任的你就要飛了但是我現在擔任我當然有這個職責來讓這個軍事審判是合於現場的意志因為現在的司法跟檢調都不普遍都不太讓人民信任更何況是完全在威權的這個軍隊裡"},{"start":1005.249,"end":1026.422,"text":"軍事審判要不要恢復這是一個嚴肅的問題民主國家很多國家都有軍事審判的這樣的一個制度其實我們的立場一直沒有認為說要把它廢除我們只是說這個東西當然是可以更透明這是我們當初國民黨的一貫的立場那當初說要廢的是你啊是你們民進黨"},{"start":1027.483,"end":1042.641,"text":"那現在說要恢復的也是民進黨神也是你們鬼也是你們這個立場反覆啊讓人民沒有辦法溝通嘛你要怎麼樣去去跟像那些當初為了洪仲秋的案子的號召的上街頭的24萬人"},{"start":1044.718,"end":1063.692,"text":"他們要情何以堪啊德國委員報告我們回憶到當時是因為內在的因素因為領滅的事件軍中人權被忽略了所以內在的因素經過種種社會的反應是馬前總統的宣布廢除了軍事研判今天我們面對是外在的威脅"},{"start":1065.473,"end":1093.592,"text":"內部的因素我們已經完整的保存了人權跟包裝金融人權未來我們也會有更有經驗更有民主更有法律素養的軍法官來審理所以沒有內在因素的問題我們面對的是外在的威脅你現在解釋就是說跟現在時空背景是不一樣以前追求的是安居樂業那以兩岸和平為主軸那現在你說追求兩岸和平是溫柔的投降"},{"start":1094.552,"end":1119.444,"text":"是這樣我說私私有兩種和平也有兩種一種是國家要夠強一種是束手投降在我看來這是掌權者無視人命的倔強就是保障國人才可以這麼做你還記得賴清德總統要上任的時候他有一個影片廣告宣傳他是上了一部轎車對吧"},{"start":1121.545,"end":1134.773,"text":"可是我現在看起來他當選之後他是不是上錯車了他開到火車了不會轉彎 直走我們開一部往和平的車往和平中站的車但是我們每天受到"},{"start":1136.721,"end":1151.28,"text":"軍機軍艦的威脅在台灣環繞不是從今天開始也不是從520開始好啦院長最後來我跟你講我們內閣裡面有很多人失言、造謠甚至當側翼的這些官員你們可以用很多的政治語言去粉飾太平"},{"start":1151.801,"end":1179.122,"text":"但是總統對外講的話會牽動國家的生死存亡也會帶著2300萬人民的生命財產安全受到影響那我希望以後這種事情我希望你們能夠更審慎的來討論我們兩岸的關係跟國際上的一個關係這樣可以嗎一直非常審慎的討論事前做很多的研商那麼每一個文字自貞自卓的都相當的謹慎"},{"start":1180.143,"end":1191,"text":"就是要讓國人有信心讓國際也認為我們有保衛自己的決心那部長說國軍不管有沒有打仗隨時都要備戰嘛 對不對"},{"start":1192.336,"end":1214.586,"text":"對 因為我們備戰才能避戰對 我也覺得非常有道理本來我們這個國防本來就是要做那現在兩岸關係現在被你們搞到這麼緊張要增加國防實力我認為沒有人會反對今年國防預算是6470億我們賴總統說要提高到GDP的3%大概會增加1200億左右"},{"start":1217.106,"end":1233.095,"text":"當然我們在黨的立場是這樣合理的可以被監督的當然我們會支持但是你們打算怎麼分配你是多少要買武器多少要增加國軍薪資的待遇"},{"start":1234.135,"end":1257.404,"text":"跟委員報告,我想大概國防的預算支出大概是就三大塊嘛一塊是人員的維持費,一塊是作業維持費還有一塊是這個軍事投資軍事的投資又有不同,也有除了我們國防自主的產能之外也有軍購,也有商購所以這些部分我們都是依照我們作戰的實際需要"},{"start":1258.524,"end":1284.858,"text":"來進行這個相關的這些軍事投資那作業維持的部分因為中國的侵擾我想這個作業維持也日益增加我想我們也需要這些零附件、油料的這些籌貨那人員維持的部分我想我們也在進行一些待遇調整的方案這些方案也順我行政院行政院正在審議當中好,那你們提的你們有提版本了嗎?國民黨提了一個對吧?國民黨提了一個"},{"start":1287.438,"end":1313.712,"text":"軍人待遇改革法案從薪資加給福利津貼方面直接入法保障因為要提升國防最重要的是人你買再多的武器沒有人是沒有用的沒有人使用是沒用的那志願役呢國民黨提的版本是二等兵直接加薪兩萬那你們研議的會比這個多還是比這個少我想行政院在審議之後我們會對外公布但是我們不認為這樣子的一個"},{"start":1314.946,"end":1338.88,"text":"我一直在講這種因為現在據這個立委有提出來的這些喊價式的這種待遇調整的方法我想並沒有考慮到整個這一個我覺得是這樣子你們既然有版本要趕快提出來是在還沒有進入三讀之前我們政黨裡面我們大家好好的來協商好好討論這件事情我覺得這是有必要的不要倉促到時候你們不談等到我們提出來你們又要提復議"},{"start":1340.961,"end":1356.278,"text":"院長應該會盡快來核定這個國防部已經把完整詳細的整個方案這個案子都送到行政院行政院基本上會尊重國防部我也會同意國防部送來的案子那大概什麼時候會停我們完成內部很快"},{"start":1357.823,"end":1384.565,"text":"這個之外我們對軍人的一些包括他的保險我們也會做增加這是另案的我們是希望提升軍人的待遇目的是要有人那當然我們也有精兵的一個政策然後我們大概也算了一下大概改善軍人待遇初估大概多了大概是440多億我覺得這非常重要而且我們部裡面還有行政院這邊能夠納入考量"},{"start":1385.981,"end":1413.852,"text":"我們衡量國家的需求對軍人的待遇 國家的需求對於整體的戰力因為我們要從整體的不只財政預渡好啦 那我期待你們的版本出來好不好謝謝 謝謝部長那再來就是賴總統的17項策略裡面部長請回 請回主委也請回那個就台灣與中國的經貿關係進行策略性的結構調整那目前我們要怎麼調整"},{"start":1414.875,"end":1442.888,"text":"他的原則就是以強本固抬風險管理作為原則性那對雙方的人流物流金流跟技術必須要做到必要跟有序的調整就是一切要以強化我們自己的經濟安全為出發怎麼調整嗎 你要終止ECFA還是要做進出國管制還是要廢除兩岸人民關係條例"},{"start":1444.619,"end":1469.331,"text":"大體的講是內控跟外控我們對輸出到國外的你知道我們台灣一年出口中國跟香港的這個金額是多少嗎一定相當龐大 對所以我們更要小心 不能過度的依賴性出去的各種關於高科技的產品更應該在符合我們現在國家安全的需求底下做強烈要求對 我現在要講的一個現實的問題就是說"},{"start":1472.335,"end":1501.027,"text":"台灣進出口到中國和香港每年是4,898億左右那我講的是去年的數據那今年呢出口美國的金額是3,560億左右那到日本的金額是8,200億台灣出口東協10國的金額大概是2,800億左右那如果我們現在限縮了我們跟中國的一個交流的時候我們每年出口到"},{"start":1502.045,"end":1525.111,"text":"大陸香港的這些業者他們未來怎麼辦所以台灣也要分散我們的市場我們出去到中國的很多的產品他都是加工之後又到世界各地去那也許世界各地也有更適合的生產基地你這些配套想好了沒有因為我看你們的動作就是要跟對岸來宗旨你要叫這些人"},{"start":1525.831,"end":1542.963,"text":"我們只是要做必要跟有序的調整你要給人家一個方向你知道嗎你不是說現在講然後讓大家覺得沒有明天我到底要不要繼續投資我到底要怎麼樣我要移到哪邊去我這個行業到底要不要繼續做那我的未來怎麼辦我的貸款怎麼辦我的小孩怎麼辦"},{"start":1543.783,"end":1566.698,"text":"不僅我們的廠商會到世界布局,我們也會另外有相當完整的條件希望國外的廠商也到台灣來設廠投資那國內的廠商對在國內的投資也會持續的加碼這個都是現在已經看到的現象部長,你們如果最終的目的是要兩岸停止交流我請你們直接告訴人民,讓我們的人民有所準備"},{"start":1567.738,"end":1591.62,"text":"這樣不確定性會讓人民不知所措兩岸必須做健康有序的交流你們的健康標準是什麼要保障台灣人主體的安全國防的安全跟經濟的安全跟人民的安全這個怎麼認定我覺得很模糊你知道嗎你不能選擇一把大刀在人家頭上什麼時候要往下砍不知道我高興我就不砍我不高興你就砍下來"},{"start":1592.95,"end":1618.961,"text":"那你叫人民未來何去何從他要怎麼樣無所適從你懂我意思嗎我們就是要避免這種大刀架在我們脖子上不是你現在是別人的大刀架在我們頭上沒錯那我們自己又拿了一把大刀又壓在我們人民身上不是嗎沒有我們沒有把大刀壓在自己身上所以我覺得你們的政策既然要做講清楚跟人民講清楚你未來要怎麼樣這樣可以嗎"},{"start":1620.161,"end":1644.967,"text":"總統在3月13號的財事當中這17項是非常清楚的只是我們一一要把它落實到部會裡面去當這個完善的周延的計畫出來之後會不會就具以執行那時候再請委員執照跟支持那我再來問台積電赴美投資我們這邊說是1000億美金川普說是2000億這個你們掌握的到底是多少"},{"start":1646.696,"end":1670.959,"text":"我們所知道是原來就已經有650億再加上1000億是這個1650億院長跟我們的總統也都說過要跟留台灣要把台積電最先進的製程留在台灣但是投審會說那個N1的規定只有針對中國其他地方是沒設限的對吧"},{"start":1673.146,"end":1683.676,"text":"報告委員台積電我們當然是尊重他的投資規劃魏哲嘉董事長也表明台積電對台灣的投資是不變的"},{"start":1684.795,"end":1707.061,"text":"像是高雄的兩奈米廠、嘉義先進的封裝廠這些投資都不會改變未來也會持續擴大的投資對台灣的半導體業來講仍然是全球最完善的半導體供應體系我知道你未來是怎麼管控這個高階技術、高階人才不會過去"},{"start":1708.202,"end":1734.514,"text":"過幾天不是他們州長要過來嗎他們到美國去投資必須要經過經濟部的投審會的許可所以我們會堅持把最新的技術留在台留在這個國內那這個裡面當然你怎麼堅持是最新你們剛剛講了我記得部長前幾天有講過就是說最新的技術明年是1.6奈米是不會過去嘛對不對"},{"start":1737.198,"end":1754.369,"text":"台積電他們現在會開始開發1.6奈米的技術但是這個技術還沒有到生產線還沒有辦法到生產線所以我相信他在美國他要生產線上面要去布局1.6奈米這個是"},{"start":1756.61,"end":1774.498,"text":"不夠內行的說法也不夠專業的這個說法所以就是不會去嘛所以他會去的一定是在國內已經有成績的這個部分才會過去我們每年到那個台積電的他的"},{"start":1775.635,"end":1795.844,"text":"基本支出是大概381到420億美元如果美國的這個設置工廠它要到這個1000億美元的話我們算過大概一年要250億美元那會影響我們台灣的這個整個的進度嗎?這個不會你保證不會?你說一年會有一個廠嗎?對吧?"},{"start":1797.386,"end":1819.811,"text":"他不會影響這個是台積電他到美國也是他全球佈局的一個部分他主要是要接近他美國的客戶那麼這個美國的客戶呢比較先進的這個製程都在美國所以他台積電去那裡呢主要是服務他的客戶好時間也到了啦好謝謝院長謝謝謝謝委員謝謝邱正軍委員質詢也謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢報案會現在議場"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":377,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（10時51分）主席好，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：邱委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：院長好。院長，今天一開始我想跟你討論的是我們苗栗孩子的受教權問題。我們看一下影片。","（播放影片）"],["邱委員鎮軍：這是上個月開學的時候，我到苗栗后庄國小看孩子們上課的狀況，1.8公頃的學校，最合適的班級數大概是40班，后庄國小現在是51班，院長你能想像超收11班，又是滿班的一個學校，孩子們上課的教室跟下課的活動空間是有多擁擠嗎？剛剛有看到吧！"],["卓院長榮泰：這裡有51班喔？"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，51班。我們后庄國小的位置就在科學園區的旁邊。好，你們看一下影片。","（播放影片）"],["邱委員鎮軍：這是一個小型的室內運動區域，后庄國小的位置就在科學園區旁邊，竹科的員工上個月已經有17萬8,633人，比起5年前增加了2萬5,000人左右，竹科飽和帶來的外溢效應，讓很多在新竹上班的人選擇搬到苗栗的竹南跟頭份。當然，我們非常歡迎他們到苗栗來，我們在2022年時已成為少數人口移入正成長的縣市，更值得一提的是，去年2月到今年2月，一年之間，設籍在頭份、竹南的人口增加了2,117人，近3年大概增加了6,000人，每一年以1%的速度成長，這在整個臺灣來講是非常少見的。","現在竹南、頭份市區的國中、國小幾乎都是額滿，我們面臨的是小孩子根本沒有教室上課，接下來桃竹苗大矽谷計畫的推動，預估未來會增加14萬個工作機會，可預期的就是孩子的受教問題。其實桃竹苗大矽谷計畫當初在核定的時候，配套就包含要確保水電無虞、交通順暢、醫療充足、員工居住跟子女教育的部分，沒錯吧？這些當初都涵蓋在裡面。以南科來說，增加臺南、高雄、嘉義、屏東園區，每一個園區裡都有一所實驗學校，我們不是說別人有，我們苗栗也要有，但是苗栗確實有這個需要。","我們再看一下剛剛的照片，這是2月中我們開的一個座談會，來參與的都是家長，人數是爆滿的，我們希望因應園區的發展，小孩子的就讀需求，可以在竹南科學園區裡設立實驗中學，目前我們鍾縣長也已經找好土地了，這是縣府的地，大概9公頃左右，地方出地、中央出錢，一起合作。那天的座談會教育部有派人來參加，教育部目前應該是沒有什麼問題，現在就等院長跟國科會這邊點頭，不知道院長的意思呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：非常感謝邱委員如此關心教育的問題，能夠關心下一代是我們必須該做的重要事情。隨著科學園區的增加、產業的發展，我們需要更多的教育設施空間，所以我想無論從硬體、軟體、師資各方面實質地增加都是必須要的，而且就像委員所說的，這已經不光是教育部的問題了，我們的實驗中學，尤其是在科學園區的實驗中學都是由國科會全面規劃、執行的，所以國科會吳主委也一直在討論這個事情，我也相當地瞭解，對於目前的進度、過程，就由吳主委答復。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，我們請吳主委講一下。"],["吳主任委員誠文：科學園區實驗中學需要在園區籌設計畫報院、核定暨取得學校用地產權後，才能夠進行評估規劃。"],["邱委員鎮軍：現在縣府已經找到地啦！"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。目前整個產業的需求還沒有很明確，因為原來竹南科學園區的這個土地，上次院長去看過了，現在縣政府所規劃的3塊地，其實都不符合現在產業的需求。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我想問主委，大矽谷計畫是不是確定會推動？"],["卓院長榮泰：已經核定了。"],["吳主任委員誠文：已經核定了。"],["邱委員鎮軍：既然確定……"],["吳主任委員誠文：但是地方政府要配合。"],["邱委員鎮軍：當然，我們絕對會配合，但既然要推動，小孩子受教育的問題是不是要優先考量，而且要提早進行？因為孩子的成長只有一次，他沒有辦法重來，也不能等，他錯過這次機會，如果慢了一年，他的未來就被影響到了。"],["吳主任委員誠文：比較快速的方法就是趕快在既有的學校擴充。"],["邱委員鎮軍：問題是剛剛我講了，它那個土地只有1.8公頃。"],["吳主任委員誠文：因為要成立科學園區的實驗中學有它既定的辦法，我想委員非常清楚，我們要做很完善的調查。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，部長也跟鍾縣長有過接觸、有討論過，目前部長在教育部裡面的作業，我請部長來說明。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，謝謝委員關心竹南、竹苗地區從小學、國中到高中教育機會的提供跟教育品質上的確保。確實我們也看到竹竹苗這3個縣市因為科學園區的進駐，人口是在增加的，所以我們今年1月對目前竹苗的8所高中，我們已經撥了3,507萬，先用來增班，這是一個馬上、立即可以改善的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，我跟你報告，你可能……"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，另外我們也核定，就是從今年開始，苗栗縣頭份國中西側校舍的20間教室工程經費有一億七千多萬，將近8,000萬，希望能趕快用來增設學校。另外還有苗栗的大同高中跟興華高中，我們也給予經費的補助，希望能快速去做校舍的增建、學校的成立……"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，你講的沒錯，這是一般的校舍，其實當初中央補助了非常多的實驗教室、實驗室，現在這些實驗室根本就已經被拿來當教室在用，所以學生連實驗室都沒有，這個部分本來就是要解決。我們提的實驗中學，它的目的其實是在，因為我們有很多園區員工的子女有受教的問題，一般來說，如果我們現在不成立，搬到苗栗縣來的這些園區員工的子女，未來要到新竹去念實驗中學是不可能的，他是進不去的，所以我們希望把人才留在苗栗，才會跟中央提這件事情，你懂我的意思嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不過我們已經跟縣政府討論過這件事了，我們竹科管理局也是很積極在協助的，我們希望苗栗縣政府趕快先進行擴建的用地規劃，這個規劃還是要符合我們的產業需求，這個規劃完成以後，我們竹科管理局會在取得產權之後，土地規劃完、用地取得以後……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你不能先核定、先准它嗎？它就可以先前作業了，不是嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：要先前作業，現在可行性評估正在做，可是那3塊用地其實並不符合我們所講的重要產業的需求，還是希望……"],["邱委員鎮軍：這是另外一個層面，我們當然會加緊腳步跟中央好好配合，我現在講的是這個部分不能拿出來先做事前的準備嗎？讓我們後續才能夠知道我們下一步要做什麼。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，剛剛吳主委說現在的土地評估起來不是很適合，在此也要拜託委員，您對地方比較了解，可以看看有沒有更好的地點，我們可以再繼續評估。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我這樣問好了，請問院長、主委及部長，你們支不支持在大矽谷計畫的竹南園區裡面增設一所實驗中學？你支持嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們評估確定有這個需求，我們當然一定會盡力來協助。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得你現在答應我就好了嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們還是要評估，因為用地取得要搭配新的用地……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我知道啦！我的意思是說，既然大矽谷計畫確定要實施，為什麼學校……"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為趨勢上我們應該要提早因應準備，但是如果沒有找到合適的地點、大小、位置的土地，那也是沒有辦法執行，所以趕快來找找看適合的地點何在，我們就來進行評估，看看如何來設置怎麼樣規模、內容的學校，但地點要先有著落。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好的，土地的問題我們來解決，我們會解決孩子受教的問題，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是的，桃竹苗大矽谷的發展計畫已經在行政院通過了，科學園區管理局會積極來協助。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你看嘉科、屏科實中在111年核定，113年8月就開始招生了，它現在還沒蓋好啊！當然土地的問題我也知道，我們回去加緊腳步，請主委、部長及院長大家一起努力來推動這件事情，好嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：謝謝，部長請回。","接下來我再請問院長，賴清德總統上周宣布17項策略之後，人民及各行各業普遍都感覺到臺灣的民主變了調，雖然總統沒有宣布戰爭，也沒有宣布戒嚴，但是對外就是進入了準戰爭時期，對內則是實施類戒嚴。賴總統說中國大陸威脅嚴重，請問我們有召開或者是參加緊急的因應會議嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：有。"],["邱委員鎮軍：開了幾次？"],["卓院長榮泰：兩次都有參加。"],["邱委員鎮軍：院長，你認為臺灣是一個民主國家嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：當然是嘛！我也認同你剛剛講的，但是我覺得賴政府正在複製一段歷史──一樣的反共、一樣的反民族主義口號、一樣的製造內部跟外部的敵人、一樣的利用媒體抹黑的手段、一樣的借題發揮，面對不同的聲音一樣的貼標籤。然後要做司法的變革，一樣的政治目的，目的就是要消滅在野黨，你有沒有覺得這個似曾相識啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：絕非如此，我們只是在面對境外敵對勢力對我們不斷併吞跟滲透的意圖時，築起一道更高、更堅固自我防衛的高牆，這絕對不是準戰爭的行為，這是自我防衛的決心、自我防衛的責任。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得現在賴政府所做的事情跟希特勒非常相似。"],["卓院長榮泰：完全不一樣。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們的總統講一句話，就要恢復軍事審判，這個不是獨裁嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然不是。針對軍事審判，我再次說明只有針對現役軍人的5種軍事犯罪，包括叛亂、利敵、洩密、廢弛職務以及抗命，軍人不能有這5種行為，有這5種行為就是軍事審判。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那天總統公開宣布了30分鐘，臺灣人民可能有一半以上就開始擔心以後的生活，按照民主法治的精神，恢復軍事審判制度要不要修法？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會啟動所有相關的修法，包括軍法官人事條例，我們也要由更有經驗跟民主素養的軍法官來處理這些案子。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們的草案擬了沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：正在處理啊！"],["邱委員鎮軍：什麼時候要提呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我希望我們在一個月以內把整個……"],["邱委員鎮軍：提了之後會跟社會溝通嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，我們現在所有的立法過程都必須跟社會、也要跟大院溝通。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啦！不要總統一宣布你們就配合著修法，我認為爭取社會的認同更重要。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會啟動相關必要的程序。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這才是民主國家，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我想我們在研擬的過程當中，都要跟社會各界保持溝通，也要跟相關的專業人士進行諮商。"],["邱委員鎮軍：根據中華民國憲法，總統可以宣戰，也可以宣布戒嚴、公布法令、發布命令，但是我沒有聽過總統一句話就可以把現有的法律直接改掉。要不要恢復軍事審判，這是一個嚴肅的問題，院長，我們可以認真對待這件事情嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：朝野的委員在過去也都有這樣相關的提案，所以不是總統的一句話。總統宣示一個政策出來之後，民主國家按照民主的程序來完成所有相關立法跟配套，這是現在我們必須馬上開始要著手的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我希望跟各界……"],["顧部長立雄：立法也都要經過立法院的同意，不是我們這樣一下宣布就可以進行，因為我們研擬完之後，跟專業人士諮商、跟社會溝通之後，還是要送大院來審議。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，我希望你們講的要照做。你們常常在喊的是「沒有討論就沒有民主」，我希望你們不要一邊講一種話，回來又講另外一種話。我們當然不允許國軍裡面有人做出危害國家安危的事情，但是你們現在對外一致的回答，讓民眾覺得你在告訴大家，馬英九任內，兩岸溝通非常良好、非常和平；蔡英文任內，也還算穩定，所以沒有重啟軍法的必要；賴總統一上任之後，軍紀就變渙散，就準備開戰了，現在是這個原因嗎？外面的解讀是這樣。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，院長已經一再地說明了，我想我們就已經限縮為現役軍人犯軍人職務上之犯罪，這跟戒嚴沒有任何的關聯，國軍的防衛作戰……"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，我再問你，你過去是支持廢除軍事法庭的，你要為你過去主張的審判制度道歉嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們現在要的是重新打造一個新的、符合公平審判原則跟正當法律原則的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，您的意思是2013年當時您還是顧立雄律師的時候，您的思慮不周、倉卒行事、魯莽而廢除的軍事審判是錯的嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我想當時的軍事審判制度有違憲的地方，有不符合公平法院設計的地方……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那為什麼那個時候不改呢？那個時候你為什麼不改而要廢呢？"],["顧部長立雄：當時我並不是國防部長。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以你現在擔任了，你就要廢了，要重開軍事審判制度？"],["顧部長立雄：但是我現在擔任，我當然有這個職責讓軍事審判是合於憲法的意旨的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為現在的司法跟檢調普遍都不太讓人民信任，更何況是完全在威權的軍隊裡。軍事審判要不要恢復，這是一個嚴肅的問題，如果……"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，很多民主國家都有軍事審判的制度，而當時我們……"],["邱委員鎮軍：其實我們的立場一直沒有認為要把它廢除，我們只是說這個東西當然可以更透明，這是當初國民黨一貫的立場。當初說要廢的是你、是你們民進黨，現在說要恢復的也是民進黨，神也是你們，鬼也是你們，立場反覆，讓人民沒有辦法苟同，叫那些當初為了洪仲丘的案子而號召上街頭的24萬人情何以堪！"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，我們回憶當時是因為內在的因素、因為凌虐的事件，軍中人權被忽略了，所以內在的因素經過種種社會的反映，是馬前總統宣布廢除了軍事審判，今天我們面對的是外在的威脅……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以時空背景……"],["卓院長榮泰：因為內部的因素，我們已經完整地保存了人權跟保存軍中人權，未來我們也會有更有經驗、更有民主、更有法律素養的軍法官來審理，所以沒有內在因素的問題，我們面對的是外在的威脅。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以你現在的解釋就是以前跟現在的時空背景是不一樣的，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是不一樣的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：以前追求的是安居樂業、以兩岸和平為主軸，現在你說追求兩岸和平是溫柔的投降，是這樣……"],["卓院長榮泰：如果我說的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：在我看來……"],["卓院長榮泰：我說斯斯有兩種，和平也有兩種，一種是國家要夠強，一種是束手投降，我們選擇的當然是國家夠強。"],["邱委員鎮軍：在我看來，這是掌權者無視人命的倔強。"],["卓院長榮泰：就是保障國人才必須這麼做。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你還記得賴清德總統上任的時候，有一個廣告宣傳的影片，他是上了一部轎車，對吧？可是我現在看起來，他當選之後是不是上錯車了，他開到火車了，不會轉彎直直走？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們開一部往和平終站的車，但是我們每天受到軍機、軍艦的威脅，在臺灣環繞，不是從今天開始，也不是從520開始。"],["邱委員鎮軍：最後，我跟院長講，你的內閣裡面有很多失言、造謠，甚至當側翼的這些官員，你們可以用很多的政治語言去粉飾太平，但是總統對外講的話會牽動國家的生死存亡，也會連帶著讓2,300萬人民的生命、財產安全受到影響，我希望以後你們能夠更審慎來討論兩岸關係及跟國際上的關係，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：一直非常審慎的討論，事前做了很多研商，每一個文字都字斟句酌的相當謹慎，就是要讓國人有信心，讓國際也認為我們有保衛自己的決心。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長說國軍不管有沒有打仗，隨時都要備戰，對不對？"],["顧部長立雄：對，因為我們備戰才能避戰。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，當然我也覺得非常有道理，我們的國防本來就要做，現在兩岸關係被你們搞到這麼緊張，我認為沒有人會反對要增加國防實力，今年的國防預算是6,470億，賴總統說要提高到GDP的3%，大概會增加1,200億左右，當然在野黨的立場是，合理可以被監督的我們會支持。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["邱委員鎮軍：但是你們打算怎麼分配？多少要買武器，多少要增加國軍的薪資待遇？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，國防的預算支出大概是三大塊，一塊是人員的維持費、一塊作業維持費，還有一塊是軍事投資，軍事投資又有不同，除了我們國防自主的產能之外，也有軍購、也有商購，所以這些部分我們都是依照作戰的實際需要來進行相關的軍事投資。作業維持的部分，因為中國的侵擾，我想作業維持也日益增加，我們也需要這些零附件、油料的籌獲；人員維持的部分，我們也在進行一些待遇調整方案，這些方案也送到行政院了，行政院正在審議當中。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們有提版本了嗎？國民黨提了一個，對吧？國民黨提了一個軍人待遇改革法案，從薪資加給、福利津貼方面直接入法保障，因為要提升國防最重要的是人，你買再多的武器，沒有人使用是沒有用的。針對志願役，國民黨提的版本是二等兵直接加薪兩萬，你們研議的版本會比這個多，還是比這個少？"],["顧部長立雄：在行政院審議之後，我們會對外公布，但是我們不認為這樣子的方案……我一直在講的是，現在據立委提出來的這些喊價式的待遇調整方法，並沒有考慮到整個……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得是這樣子，你們既然有版本要趕快提出來。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：在沒有進入三讀之前，各政黨大家好好的來協商，好好討論這件事情，我覺得這是有必要的，不要倉促，到時候你們不談，等到我們提出來，你們又要提覆議，對不對？"],["顧部長立雄：院長應該會儘快來核定。"],["卓院長榮泰：國防部已經把完整詳細的整個方案都送到行政院，行政院基本上會尊重國防部，我也會同意國防部送來的案子。"],["邱委員鎮軍：大概什麼時候會提？"],["卓院長榮泰：只要我們完成內部程序，很快，除此之外，我們對軍人的保險也會增加，這是另案的，已經核定了。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們希望提升軍人的待遇，目的是要有人，當然我們也要有精兵政策，我們也算了一下，改善軍人待遇粗估大概多了四百四十多億，我覺得這非常重要，請部裡面還有行政院能夠納入考量，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們衡量國家的需求，對軍人的待遇、國家的需求以及整體的戰力。"],["顧部長立雄：因為我們要從整體來看，不只財政挹注，還要從整體衡平來考量。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我期待你們的版本出來，好不好？謝謝部長。再來，賴總統的17項策略裡面，就臺灣與中國的經貿關係進行策略性的結構調整，目前我們要怎麼調整？"],["卓院長榮泰：它的原則就是以「強本固臺、風險管理」作為原則性，對雙方的人流、物流……"],["邱委員鎮軍：是限縮兩岸的活動嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是限縮。對兩岸雙邊的人流、物流、金流跟技術，必須要做到必要跟有序的調整，就是一切要以強化我們自己的經濟安全為出發。"],["邱委員鎮軍：怎麼調整？你要終止ECFA，還是要做進出國管制？還是要廢除兩岸人民關係條例？"],["卓院長榮泰：大體的講是內控跟外控，我們對輸出到國外的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，你知道臺灣一年出口中國跟香港的金額是多少嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：一定相當龐大，對。所以我們更要小心，第一個，不能過度的依賴性……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊。我跟你講是4兆8,000億……"],["卓院長榮泰：出去的各種關於高科技的產品，更應該在符合我們現在國家安全的需求底下做強烈要求。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，我現在要講的一個現實問題，臺灣進出口到中國、香港，每年是4兆8,198億左右，我講的是去年的數據；今年出口美國的金額是3兆5,600億左右，到日本的金額是8,200億，臺灣出口東協十國的金額大概是2兆8,000億左右。如果我們現在限縮跟中國交流，我們每年進出口到大陸、香港的這些業者，未來怎麼辦？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以臺灣也要分散我們的市場，我們出去到中國的很多產品，都是加工之後又到世界各地去，也許世界各地有更適合的生產基地，我們可以直接過去。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你這些配套想好了沒有？因為我看你們的動作，就是要跟對岸來終止啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們只是要做必要跟有序的調整。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你要叫這些人怎麼樣去調整，你要給人家一個方向，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你不是現在講，讓大家覺得沒有明天，我到底要不要繼續投資？我到底要怎麼樣？我要移到哪邊去？這個行業到底要不要繼續做？我的未來怎麼辦？我的貸款怎麼辦？我的小孩怎麼辦？"],["卓院長榮泰：不僅我們的廠商會到世界布局，我們也會另外有相當完整的條件，希望國外廠商也到臺灣來設廠投資，國內廠商對國內的投資也會持續加碼，這個都是現在已經看到的現象。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好啦！部長，你們如果最終目的是要兩岸停止交流，我請你們直接告訴人民，讓我們的人民有所準備，這樣的不確定性會讓人民不知所措。"],["卓院長榮泰：兩岸必須做健康有序的交流，我們只是做一些必要的交流。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們的「健康」標準是什麼？是因人而異嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：「健康」是要保障臺灣主體的安全、國防的安全、經濟的安全跟人民的安全。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這個怎麼認定？我覺得很模糊，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不會、不會很模糊。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你不能懸著一把大刀在人家頭上，什麼時候要往下砍，不知道，我高興就不砍，我不高興就砍下來，你叫人民未來何去何從？他要怎麼辦，無所適從，你懂我意思嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們就是要避免這種大刀架在我們脖子上啊！"],["邱委員鎮軍：不是，現在是別人的大刀架在我們頭上，沒錯！我們自己又拿了一把大刀壓在人民身上，不是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，我們沒有把大刀壓在自己身上，委員誤會了。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以我覺得你們的政策既然要做，就跟人民講清楚，你未來要怎麼樣，這樣可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：總統在3月13號的裁示當中，這17項是非常清楚的，只是我們一一要把它落實到部會裡面，當完善、周延的計畫出來之後，各部會具體執行，那時候再請委員指教跟支持。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好。我再來問台積電赴美投資，我們這邊說是1,000億美金，川普說是2,000億，你們掌握的到底是多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們所知道的是原來就已經有650億，再加上1,000億，是1,650億。"],["邱委員鎮軍：院長跟我們的總統也都說過要根留臺灣，要把台積電最先進的製程留在臺灣，但是投審會說「N-1」的規定只有針對中國，其他地方是沒設限的，對吧？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們當然是尊重台積電的投資規劃，魏哲家董事長也表明台積電對臺灣的投資是不變的，像是高雄的兩奈米廠、嘉義先進的封裝廠，這些投資都不會改變，未來也會持續擴大投資，對臺灣的半導體業來講，仍然是全球最完善的半導體供應體系。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我知道，但你未來怎麼管控高階技術、高階人才不會過去？過幾天，不是他們州長要過來嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：他們到美國去投資，必須要經過經濟部投審會的許可，所以我們會堅持把最新的技術留在國內，這個裡面，當然也許別人會想說……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你怎麼堅持？最新……你們剛剛講的，我記得部長前幾天有講過，就是說最新的技術，明年1.6奈米是不會過去嘛！對吧？是這樣嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：台積電現在會開始開發1.6奈米的技術，但是這個技術還沒有到生產線……"],["邱委員鎮軍：還沒成熟。"],["郭部長智輝：還沒有辦法到生產線，所以我相信它在美國，在生產線上面要去布局1.6奈米，這個是不夠內行的說法，也不夠專業的說法。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以就是不會去嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那我再請問一下，部長……"],["郭部長智輝：所以一定是在國內已經有成績的部分才會過去。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，每年台積電的基本支出是大概380億到420億美元，如果美國設置工廠要到1,000億美元的話，我們算過大概一年要250億美元，會影響臺灣整個的進度嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：這個不會。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你保證不會？你說一年會有一個廠嘛！對吧？生產線……"],["郭部長智輝：它不會影響，台積電到美國也是全球布局的一個部分，它主要是要接近美國的客戶，美國的客戶比較先進的製程都在美國，所以台積電去那裡主要是服務它的客戶。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，時間也到了，謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝邱鎮軍委員質詢，也謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，現在議場二樓旁聽的是遠從屏東電器裝修職業工會的好朋友蒞臨立法院，我們熱情歡迎。現在在我們議場右邊的是來自中華民國拳擊協會的武林高手，熱情歡迎。","接下來，請登記第35位謝衣鳯委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","羅美玲","張嘉郡","林楚茵","黃健豪","林岱樺","邱鎮軍","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","廖先翔","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","郭國文","謝龍介","沈伯洋","張智倫","陳雪生"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2025-03-18"],"gazette_id":"1142601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142601_00004","1142601_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1142601_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}