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卓院長及各部會首長有請韓院長麻煩再請卓院長 韓院長在這裡 麻煩再請卓院長政委員好 卓院長好辛苦了不會 謝謝今天"},{"start":38.327,"end":63.288,"text":"這個總質詢在2月25號院長的施政報告裡面特別提到要落實原住民族基本法推動原住民的希望工程這裡面先談這個加強提升加速提升原住民族的教育程度是在76年2月12號這次"},{"start":65.717,"end":84.792,"text":"也用這個現在我還可以找得到的公文事實上在國民政府時代我們念書的時候這個升學保障升學優待就開始了這個降低入企標準這個延時總分的25%民國95年9月3號這個杜政聖當任交易部長的時候把這個"},{"start":95.416,"end":122.848,"text":"升協的保障規定做了修正改為外加百分之二外加百分之二之前的是你只要加分之後就入企了那個95年修正也就是96年1月開始實施那102年也做了修正是經過我的諮詢協調之後修正了就是希望授權"},{"start":123.564,"end":151.293,"text":"就授權給教育部會同研明會跟大專業校能夠專案調高部分的科系專案調高外加百分之五經過多年的實施之後因為很多學校他都不願意提供外加百分之五的科系所以這個我們看這個近五年的"},{"start":152.438,"end":169.669,"text":"大專校宴學生出債協力107銜年度原住民跟全國的大專學生的出債協力是31.9足年的上升到112銜年度上升到這個落差"},{"start":174.682,"end":191.971,"text":"沿漢的落差高達34%所以不降反升了所以這個必須要積極的來去檢討這個本席啊這個一再的協調教育部啊能夠"},{"start":193.447,"end":218.478,"text":"前面外加5%為什麼現在少此理化了很多學校也招不到學生所以我們100個名額再加5個位置5個椅子也無妨所以這個部分教育部是不是請這些能夠支持教育部能夠修正這個將外加名額前面提升為5%"},{"start":220.642,"end":234.289,"text":"好 報告委員其實原住民的夥伴們在文化 表演 藝術以及在體育在各行各業 百工百業當中非常傑出的優秀的表現已經非常非常多了但即使如此"},{"start":235.302,"end":261.801,"text":"我認為這種保障就學的機制維持也是必要的因為我們還是有城鄉的差距我們還是有數位的落差但是如果把城鄉差距數位落差把它補足起來這才是長遠之道但是您說的這個現在原住民學生升學保障跟公費留學辦法它其中目前應該有的保障的這些規定到底執行起來是"},{"start":262.541,"end":285.916,"text":"保障的不夠還是人數的不足還是有什麼其他資金上的困難我講請教育部請部長來說明謝謝委員關心原住民的一個受教權那我想在這個部分我們是非常佩服的但是就大學現場事實上我們大概很多的學校大概都把這個名額開出來那而且"},{"start":286.776,"end":302.087,"text":"用特別的一些管道來招生但是我們也看到現場許多原住民的名額是沒有被用完的也就是說特定的這些原住民教育裡面我們怎麼樣讓"},{"start":303.328,"end":322.074,"text":"原來的這個原住民地區的這些青年朋友他們能夠勇於去接受挑戰我想這個部分我們會來努力那另外也跟委員報告今年的公會留考事實上我們也特別針對原住民地區的這些生物的學生"},{"start":325.27,"end":351.18,"text":"沒有談到公費流考啦針對外加2%改為外加5%所以並沒有很具體剛才的數字我希望院長希望部長要有感要有感這是真實的數字這個數據還是你們所跟委員報告我們願意來再重新來檢討從31.9"},{"start":356.462,"end":380.358,"text":"不降反升差距越來越大差距到34%你講那些我都知道所以這個部分從國民政府都可以那時候就不限名額不限名額只要加分25%就上去了就去念了那現在我們"},{"start":381.638,"end":404.687,"text":"支持改為外加不要佔一般學生的名額我們支持但是希望說從2%可以外加到5%而這個5%從102學年度修正了之後可以專案的部分的科系從葉俊倫部長開始實施105年"},{"start":408.001,"end":426.73,"text":"一百零五年開始實施雙岸外加百分之五但是你們的協調不足協調不足所以很多科系就沒有正外加百分之五所以是不是就直接就修正全部改為外加百分之五"},{"start":427.974,"end":453.813,"text":"這個沒有困難 如果有什麼困難你書面資料提問給我報告委員 原民會應該會掌握到為何會有這樣的現狀發生因為時間的關係應該有的說是原住民的學生沒有進來我找你們開過會了我也找過教育部開過會了我們有什麼方法鼓勵更多的原住民的青年朋友們加入"},{"start":454.874,"end":477.894,"text":"這樣的一個保障的名額裡面 現在這個制度應該是否足夠院長 他去考啦 都去考啦高中畢業 高職畢業都去考啦 沒考上啦就是這麼一回事啊 數字都在教育部來報考的研究院的學生 我們要鼓勵他們多來考啊多考啦 不是沒有考"},{"start":481.799,"end":503.069,"text":"我們今年還特別通過了原住民的一個國際專班為原住民來培養國際人才我想只要有各大學在申請我們都會全力來支持那現在就是說委員所關心希望有更多原住民我們也會在前面來盤點來檢討看有沒有什麼因為不是增加5%的問題"},{"start":504.249,"end":528.536,"text":"因為增加5%它只是會讓那個缺額更多我想我們怎麼樣來真正落實讓原住民的一個學習品質能夠提升我想就像委員今天穿的衣服為什麼我今天裡面的衣服跟委員的也是來自於原住民是因為我正確認為台灣生物多樣性 文化多樣性 族群多樣性"},{"start":529.296,"end":557.172,"text":"我身為一個教育部長我應該對各個族群有一個更多的一些文化的一個認同跟欣賞任何人不分族群教育是最重要的我完全同意委員的一個也認同委員的一個努力方向我剛才講過國民政府時代就開始了當時不是外加只要加分25%"},{"start":559.073,"end":577.76,"text":"就這樣啦 當初今天才十二個早如果沒有外加25%不會去念台大法律系我絕對是沒有念大學所以這個部分現在既然是外加早期又沒有 不是外加喔"},{"start":578.798,"end":607.726,"text":"現在只不過是請你外交2%改為5%何況這個5%從102閒年度也實施到現在有一個階段性的一個實施顯然這個差距還是越來越大所以應該要調高到5%請教育部往這個方向去努力"},{"start":609.312,"end":636.291,"text":"好另外就是說原住民念大專校園除了剛才的一個原因之外到了大專校園之後涉及到教育經費經濟的壓力我念大學四年禮拜六禮拜天都去挑板模啦"},{"start":638.049,"end":666.436,"text":"在台大法學院二年級在台大法學院正好宿舍有這個餐廳我中午晚餐收盤子洗盤子邱泰山過去的主委部長陳明通過去的政務官跟我都是同屆的他們是政治系我收他們的盤子洗盤子"},{"start":669.427,"end":693.602,"text":"這個接下來跟教育的提升這也是因素之一所以這樣的一個教育減免學雜費也是從國民政府就開始的我當初有減免學雜費住宿費還免費但是還是沒有辦法因應相關的生活的包括很多的"},{"start":695.017,"end":723.155,"text":"所以原住民租交易法有這樣的一個規定減免協雜費但是112年6月29號行政院這個減免私立大專協雜費的3.5萬但是原住民的部分因為我們本來已經降低了所以沒辦法用到 用不到所以這個"},{"start":724.266,"end":749.89,"text":"整個219億多的經費我們用不到而這個這樣的一個抱歉從107年這個結雜費的減免107年到現在都沒有再增加沒有再增加這個減免的額度"},{"start":750.785,"end":768.229,"text":"所以我也開過協調會 到現在為止 事實上已經七年多沒有修正了這個部分也是讓我們的好不容易考上了 結果因為經濟的因素就輟學"},{"start":770.82,"end":783.242,"text":"所以這個部分也請教育部行政院希望能夠支持提高調高協雜費減免的數額請院長能夠支持謝謝委員提醒我想確實國家在對新世代年輕人的照顧怎麼樣能夠隨著私立學校的學會的"},{"start":801.071,"end":820.706,"text":"這個補貼能夠也反映適度的反映到原住民我們會整體來細算然後來看怎麼樣來協助原住民青年的一個教育希望你能夠在這個下年度的預算現在開始鎖邊明年度的預算希望你能夠把它列入進去"},{"start":822.45,"end":845.635,"text":"我們都會區的人口已經高達百分之五十一點多院長的施政報告裡面特別提到實踐居住正義營造安基的家園執行社會住宅新辦的計畫這跟內政部也有關係我們先看這個早期還沒有延期法的時候還沒有住宅法的時候"},{"start":847.145,"end":875.311,"text":"八十一年台灣省政府以一億五千多萬興建了基隆的原住民國宅而且土地還是爭辯為原住民保留地新店的中正原住民住宅八十三年這個是兩億一千三百多萬兩億一千三百多萬"},{"start":879.261,"end":908.779,"text":"然後新北市的三峽原住民文化部落整個是兩億八千零九十二萬也請內政部部長也上來麻煩請內政部長備詢三峽原住民文化部落剛剛講到一百五十戶民國八十八年中央人民會以四億九千兩百萬架構直接購買民間的集合式住宅"},{"start":910.25,"end":938.09,"text":"提供給原住民126戶的來住戶原基法94年2月5號公佈實行現在正好20多年政府應該徹底原住民族住宅政策住宅法第二條第四項規定為了原住民族的教育及文化"},{"start":939.412,"end":963.372,"text":"語言文化的提升大家住在一起都會期啊大家住在一起語言文化包括教育的提升比較能夠所以要精建專攻原住民成豬的社會住宅這是105年12月23號住宅法本席也曾經質詢內政部前任的部長林佑昌"},{"start":964.417,"end":989.298,"text":"他當時答覆說在台中沙鹿、新北樹林、桃園大溪總共541戶原住民社會住宅業要規劃興建結果呢這個後來素面答覆的結果台中沙鹿的部分沒有經費新北樹林的部分沒有經費新北樹林說經費要調了 人民會說要調經費他也去調了"},{"start":992.827,"end":1019.988,"text":"桃園大溪的說沒有經費沒有經費跟中央要 中央沒有錢好這裡面園民會本來中和發展基金新北市的部分就是跟市園民會說我跟你借錢借原住民族中和發展基金然後一部分你補助給我"},{"start":1021.301,"end":1045.422,"text":"希望能夠興建那原住民族綜合法案基金105年12月31號的結算數是117億7千多萬但是到了今年到了去年了到了去年 人民會的答覆給新北市政府說我們的存款原住民族綜合法案基金的存款只剩下9.1億"},{"start":1048.393,"end":1073.286,"text":"因為絕大部分的經費54億已經被挪用去做進法補償的費用了以無資金來支應這個社會住宅本席曾經執行過內政部的部長到了之前的部長希望能夠住宅的這個"},{"start":1077.104,"end":1103.406,"text":"106年3月27號 諮詢內政部部長他說可以用住宅基金 內政部的住宅基金自建自營新建原住民社會住宅但是已經這麼多年了住宅法修正公佈已經八年三個月專攻原住民的社會住宅一個都還沒有我剛剛為什麼會掀起之前的"},{"start":1105.241,"end":1132.055,"text":"基隆的新北市的三个总共四个就是说在那时候没有法律的情况之下为了照顾为了提供给都会区的原住民的社会住宅都做了有了住宅法之后已经八年三个月了一个都没有所以请行政院能够支持"},{"start":1133.103,"end":1153.349,"text":"以內政部的住宅基金或者是編列公務預算來興建當然直接架構是最快過去我在演民會服務過直接架構是最快 細指的就是直接架構對民間來講也幫助院長是不是交給這個"},{"start":1157.774,"end":1186.01,"text":"這個是一個大議題啦今天也不必直接答覆了是不是請院長這個警內政部跟園民會當然如果要公務一算原住民委員會的住宅計畫剛合訂的住宅計畫根本就沒有列這個部分了所以國發會也希望能夠支持主計總署希望能夠支持可以嗎"},{"start":1187.196,"end":1215.278,"text":"好 謝謝委員 我們再來內部再來商議一下什麼樣的方式現在的制度如果繼續走或怎麼樣我們再來商議一下好 謝謝 謝謝院長好 深化自治這是總統府的這個新聞 新聞稿深化自治好 請那個部長 沒錯蔡政府推動原住民組織制立法的進度的創案包括特別提到"},{"start":1217.196,"end":1246.387,"text":"他說我國早期中央各級民意代表的原住民保障席次以及三地鄉的鄉長保障縣三地原住民來擔任甚至相關的這些學校的校長主任優先兼用原住民都認為這個實質上已在逐步落實民族自治"},{"start":1247.43,"end":1259.677,"text":"也就是說這個特別提到已經具有民族自治的精神我們看這個民國41年戒嚴時期民國41年戒嚴時期動員勘亂時期三地鄉鄉長現由三地原住民擔任這個是當時的法規"},{"start":1271.877,"end":1301.088,"text":"三地鄉的三地公民年滿25歲50人連署就可以去參選這個鄉長原住民的立法委員保障其次從民國61年動員抗亂時期開始從一個名額後來增加到兩個名額後來增加到四個名額現在增加到六個名額曾經最高高達八個名額原住民的立法委員"},{"start":1301.752,"end":1327.797,"text":"當然國大代表也有那我要談的是什麼呢事實上談的就是這個原住民族基本法院長也特別提到要落實原住民族基本法那原住民族自治就是原住民族基本法其中之一很重要的部分所以部落工法人在原住民族基本法也特別明定"},{"start":1329.017,"end":1351.925,"text":"相關的土海法也是在這個原住民族基本法第二十條第三項特別規定蔡總統特別承諾一百零五年的時候八月一號講的一百零五年此一月一號我們開始劃設公告原住民傳統領域土地部落公法人的制度我們已經上路了"},{"start":1353.103,"end":1377.069,"text":"蔡總統還特別提到我們會加快將原住民族自治法原住民族土安法送請立法院審議但是經過8年多了都沒有都沒有送來而人民會的預算原住民族自治的預算總共從105年編列到114年總共已經編列了4,039萬8千元院長"},{"start":1382.472,"end":1411.419,"text":"我在演民會當企劃處處長後來當演民會的常務副主委是陳水扁總統任內當任常務副主委我們沒有編列經費我們完成了原住民主自治法的草案我們沒有編列經費完成了原住民主土地及海域法的草案花了這麼多錢原住民主自治法這八年多來應該是講九年了啦"},{"start":1412.521,"end":1437.651,"text":"這九年來沒有送到立法院這個擦一下這個因為預算已經編了很多剛講四千多萬了所以我就凍結了園民會的預算希望說就不要編預算改為積極的去怎麼樣去落實去推動我不敢刪我忍不忍心刪"},{"start":1439.707,"end":1467.65,"text":"我當立法委員從來不刪減預算然後這個也是經過我在內政委員會的一個提案張宏祿召委主持的 也沒有反對就同意凍結結果呢就被列為這個復議案的理由啊復議案的違反這個"},{"start":1470.466,"end":1497.297,"text":"司法院的一個391號的解釋所以這個部分這個是額外的他不都談了重點還在於已經編了這麼多預算希望第一個請行政院三個月內發布部落公法人設置辦法部落公法人設置辦法發布之後並不是所有的部落就變成公法人"},{"start":1498.052,"end":1521.144,"text":"他還要按照很多的行政程序從部落會議一直到要提包到縣到中央演民會所以並不是每個部落都要成立第二個公告原住民族傳統領域公告了新店新店區烏來區我講錯了烏來區已經公告將近7年多了"},{"start":1527.13,"end":1548.228,"text":"都不會 沒有怎麼樣啊沒有怎麼樣 所以不要怕不要怕 各部會不要怕第三 原住民族自治法草案趕快送立法院來審議原住民族土地及海域法草案趕快送立法院審議好 曾主委要講話我跟委員報告那這個有關部落公火人的設置辦法"},{"start":1549.656,"end":1573.285,"text":"曾經我們也是有公告過但是部落現在的意見還很多但是我們想乾脆我們先來試辦所以今年我們會試辦五個部落那這個五個部落為什麼要找他試辦因為我們自己覺得這個部落的核心幹部比較容易形成共識我們就先試辦今年就辦主委這句話我已經從宜將主委聽到現在我來說我來說"},{"start":1580.339,"end":1602.299,"text":"部落你這個部落設置辦法發布施行之後部落要不要當公法人部落自己決定部落的人民來決定你不要去說服他你不用說服他他自己去開會決定我們會設置這個會設置辦法但是就是說重點"},{"start":1605.127,"end":1627.444,"text":"重點是你要趕快把部落公法的設置辦法要發布要依延期才發布比較容易成功的而且今年就會做成功的這樣的話我們才會有跨出一步不然永遠都是在那邊你沒有這個設置辦法你怎麼去辦啊可以試辦啊你用什麼法規依據去試辦啊都不用依法行政了"},{"start":1627.964,"end":1629.585,"text":"主委這是完全是違法的"},{"start":1644.414,"end":1669.11,"text":"部落事辦的辦法部落公法的事辦的辦法你也要定啊在這個之前我們就先去找比較容易成功而且有您紀律的我們先跟他做說明那才叫事辦啊好 你把那個事辦的計畫提供給我還有你講的這個民主自治草案"},{"start":1670.168,"end":1695.874,"text":"你也知道這個進入立法院已經五進五出嘛這個不容易嘛這個宜江主委已經講了八年了啊確實是五進五出啊啊你說這個土海法的話送到貴宴期齁連討論都沒有討論啊都連排審都沒有排審因為送來的時候這你不了解這我最清楚是我送的送來的時候正好就"},{"start":1697.976,"end":1725.948,"text":"立法委員的任期要結束了這期不聯繫又退回了是這樣的因素並不是沒有審所以這個部分不能因為這樣就不送來好 我們也會整理會再送院長不能因為立法院既然立法院沒有公示就趕快送來嘛不要自己承擔這個責任嘛"},{"start":1728.024,"end":1750.275,"text":"行政院為什麼要去承擔這個責任對不對反過來是這麼一回事確實如主委所說的各方的共識目前一時還沒有辦法達到可以往前再走一大步但是一步一步的往前走這個方向一定是存在的最後時間的關係我本來後面還有議題"},{"start":1752.162,"end":1774.41,"text":"但是重點就是說 我執行過很多次 精良的軍備要專精的國軍這個預算一直調高提高 沒有問題 國防部長請好 副部長但是我們的志願役逐年下降 志願役"},{"start":1777.83,"end":1795.426,"text":"退伍人數比週末的多志願役士兵人力下降志願役士兵大幅下降這是每年的下降薪資是一個很重要的因素這個薪資每年按照軍公教的調薪3%或4%"},{"start":1799.278,"end":1820.517,"text":"但是紀理跟勞工的基本薪資4萬6千多的平均薪資差距很大我也質詢過這個邱國正部長他答詢說我們多希望提升軍人薪資但是從110年11月2號到現在"},{"start":1824.029,"end":1833.376,"text":"所以這個部分請行政院支持部長就提報部長沒有再好的武器"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":281,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（15時34分）韓院長、卓院長及各部會首長。有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：鄭委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：卓院長好，Nga'ay ho！"],["卓院長榮泰：Nga'ay ho！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：辛苦了！"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，謝謝。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：今天是總質詢，在2月25日院長的施政報告裡面特別提到要落實原住民族基本法，推動原住民的希望工程。這裡面先談加強提升、加速提升原住民族的教育程度。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["鄭天財Sra 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Kacaw如果沒有加分25%，不會去念臺大法律系，我絕對是沒有念大學；早期不是外加，現在只不過是請你把外加2%改為5%，何況這5%從102學年度實施到現在，是階段性的實施，但顯然差距還是越來越大，所以應該要調高到5%，請教育部往這個方向去努力。","另外，原住民念大專校院，除了剛才的原因之外，到了大專校院之後，還涉及到教育經費、經濟的壓力，我念大學4年，禮拜六、禮拜天都去挑板模，二年級時臺大法學院正好宿舍有餐廳，我中午、晚餐都去收盤子、洗盤子，過去的主委、部長邱太三、過去的政務官陳明通，跟我都是同一屆的，他們是政治系，我收他們的盤子、洗盤子。","這個接下來跟教育的提升，這也是因素之一，所以減免教育學雜費也是從國民政府就開始的，我當初有減免學雜費，住宿費還免費，但是還是沒有辦法因應相關的生活，包括很多的……所以原住民族教育法有這樣一個規定──減免學雜費。112年6月29號行政院有減免私立大專學雜費的3.5萬，但是原住民的部分，因為我們本來已經降低了，所以沒有辦法用到，這整個二百十九億多的經費我們用不到。","這個學雜費的減免，從107年到現在都沒有再增加減免的額度，所以我也開過協調會，到現在為止事實上已經七年多沒有修正了，這個部分也是讓我們好不容易考上了，結果因為經濟的因素就輟學，所以這個部分也請教育部，當然也希望行政院能夠支持提高、調高學雜費減免的數額，這個請院長能夠支持。"],["卓院長榮泰：部長說明一下。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，我想確實國家在對新世代年輕人的照顧上，怎麼樣能夠隨著私立學校學費的補貼，也能適時、適度地反映到原住民……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長……"],["鄭部長英耀：我們會整體來細算，然後來……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：謝謝你。"],["鄭部長英耀：看怎麼樣來協助原住民青年的教育。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：因為時間的關係，希望能夠在下年度的預算，現在開始籌編明年度的預算，希望你能夠把它列入進去。","我們都會區的人口已經高達百分之五十一點多，院長的施政報告裡面特別提到「實踐居住正義，營造安居家園」，執行社會住宅興辦的計畫，這跟內政部也有關係。我們先看這個，早期還沒有原基法的時候，還沒有住宅法的時候，81年臺灣省政府以一億五千多萬興建了基隆的原住民國宅，而且土地還增編為原住民保留地；83年新店的中正原住民住宅，這個是兩億一千三百多萬；然後新北市的三峽原住民族文化部落整個是2億8,092萬，也請內政部部長上來。"],["主席：麻煩請內政部部長備詢。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：三峽原住民族文化部落剛剛講的有150戶，民國88年中央原民會以4億9,200萬價購，直接購買民間的集合式住宅，提供給原住民126個住戶。原基法94年2月5號公布施行，現在正好20週年，政府應該策訂原住民族住宅政策。住宅法第二條第四項規定，為了原住民族教育及語言文化的提升，在都會區大家住在一起，對於語言文化，包括教育比較能夠提升，所以要興建專供原住民承租的社會住宅，這是105年12月23號的住宅法。","本席也曾經質詢前任內政部部長林右昌，他當時答復說在臺中沙鹿、新北樹林、桃園大溪總共有541戶原住民社會住宅要規劃興建。後來書面答復的結果是臺中沙鹿的部分沒有經費；新北樹林的部分原民會說要調經費，然後他也去調了；桃園大溪的部分則是沒有經費，跟中央要但是中央沒有錢。新北市的部分就是跟原民會說：我跟你借錢，借原住民族綜合發展基金，然後一部分你補助給我，希望能夠興建。原住民族綜合發展基金105年12月31號的決算數是一百十七億七百多萬，但是到了去年，原民會給新北市政府的答復卻說原住民族綜合發展基金的存款只剩下9.14億，因為絕大部分的經費54億已經被挪去做禁伐補償的費用，已無資金來支應社會住宅。","本席曾經在106年3月27質詢過內政部之前的部長，他說可以用內政部的住宅基金支應興建原住民社會住宅，但是已經這麼多年了，住宅法修正公布已經8年3個月，專供原住民的社會住宅卻是一個都還沒有。我剛剛為什麼會先舉基隆、新北市的四個例子？主要是那時候在沒有法律的情況之下，為了照顧、為了提供給都會區原住民的社會住宅都做了，有了住宅法之後已經8年3個月了，反而是一個都沒有，所以請行政院能夠支持以內政部的住宅基金或者是編列公務預算來興建。當然直接價購是最快的，過去我在原民會服務過，直接價購是最快的，汐止的就是直接價購，對民間來講也有幫助。","院長，這是一個大議題，今天也不必直接答復了，是不是請院長責成內政部跟原民會，如果要公務預算，原住民族委員會所核定的住宅計畫根本就沒有列這個部分，所以我希望國發會能夠支持，也希望主計總處能夠支持，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我們內部再來商議一下，看看什麼樣的方式，現在的制度如果繼續走或是怎麼樣，我們再來商議一下。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝院長，部長請回座。","接下來是「深化自治」，這是總統府的新聞稿，蔡政府推動原住民族自治立法進度的專案報告特別提到，我國早期中央各級民意代表的原住民保障席次以及山地鄉的鄉長保障限由山地原住民來擔任，甚至相關的學校校長、主任都優先進用原住民，都認為這個實質上已在逐步落實民族自治，也就是說，特別提到這已經具有民族自治的精神。我們看民國41年戒嚴時期、動員戡亂時期，山地鄉鄉長限由山地原住民擔任，這個是當時的法規，山地鄉的山地公民年滿25歲、50人連署就可以去參選鄉長。原住民的立法委員保障席次從民國61年動員戡亂時期開始，從1個名額，後來增加到2個名額，後來增加到4個名額，現在增加到6個名額，原住民的立法委員曾經最高高達8個名額，當然，國大代表也有。","我要談的是什麼呢？事實上談的就是原住民族基本法，院長也特別提到要落實原住民族基本法，原住民族自治就是原住民族基本法其中之一很重要的部分，所以部落公法人在原住民族基本法也特別明定，相關的土海法也是在原住民族基本法第二十條第三項特別規定。","蔡總統特別承諾、105年的時候8月1號講的，105年11月1號我們開始劃設公告原住民傳統領域土地，部落公法人的制度我們已經上路了；蔡總統還特別提到，我們會加快將原住民族自治法、原住民族土海法送請立法院審議，但是經過八年多了都沒有送來。而原民會的預算、原住民族自治的預算從105年編列到114年，總共已經編列了4,039萬8,000元。院長，我在原民會當企劃處處長，後來當原民會的常務副主委，是在陳水扁總統任內擔任常務副主委，我們沒有編列經費，完成了原住民族自治法草案；我們沒有編列經費，完成了原住民族土地及海域法草案。花了這麼多錢，原住民族自治法這八年多來，應該是講9年了，這9年來沒有送到立法院。","插一下這個，因為預算已經編很多，剛剛講已經四千多萬了，所以我就凍結了原民會的預算，希望就不要編預算，改為積極地怎麼樣去落實、去推動。我不敢刪，我不忍心刪，我當立法委員也從來不刪減預算。然後這個也是經過我在內政委員會的一個提案，張宏陸召委主持的，原民會也沒反對，就同意凍結，結果就被列為覆議案的理由，違反司法院第391號的解釋，所以這個部分是額外的，不多談了。","重點還在於已經編了這麼多預算，希望：第一個，請行政院於3個月內發布部落公法人設置辦法，部落公法人設置辦法發布之後，並不是所有的部落就變成公法人，它還要按照很多的行政程序，從部落會議，一直到要提報到縣、到中央原民會，所以並不是每個部落都要成立。第二個，公告原住民族傳統領域，烏來區已經公告了將近七年多了，都沒有怎麼樣呀，沒有怎麼樣！所以不要怕，各部會不要怕。第三，原住民族自治法草案趕快送立法院來審議，原住民族土地及海域法草案趕快送立法院審議。好，曾主委要講話。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我跟委員報告，有關部落公法人設置辦法，曾經我們也是有公告過，但是部落現在的意見還很多，我們想乾脆我們先來試辦，所以今年我們會試辦5個部落，為什麼會找這5個部落試辦，因為我們覺得這個部落的核心幹部比較容易形成共識，我們就先試辦，今年就辦。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主委，這句話我已經從夷將主委聽到現在，我來說，部落設置辦法發布施行之後，部落要不要當公法人，部落自己決定，部落的人民來決定，你不要去說服他，你不用說服他，他自己去開會決定。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們會設置辦法，但是……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這個部分的重點是你要趕快把部落公法人設置辦法發布，而且要依原基法發布。"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，我們是不是找到比較容易成功的，而且今年就會做成功的？這樣的話我們才會有跨出一步，不然永遠都是停留在那裡。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：你沒有這個設置辦法要怎麼去試辦？"],["曾主任委員智勇：可以試辦啊！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：你用什麼法規依據去試辦？"],["曾主任委員智勇：沒有，我們跟部落……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：都不用依法行政了。"],["曾主任委員智勇：就是先試辦，而且我們已經找到5個部落了，今年會成功，到時候我再跟委員報告，好不好？"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主委，這完全是違法的，你要訂一個部落試辦辦法，部落公法人試辦辦法，你也要訂。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我知道，在此之前，我們就先去找比較容易成功……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：那種不叫試辦。"],["曾主任委員智勇：而且有凝聚力的，我們先跟他做說明，那才叫試辦。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，你把試辦計畫提供給我。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好，還有你講的原住民族自治法草案，你也知道這個進入立法院已經五進五出，這個不容易。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：夷將主委已經講了8年了。"],["曾主任委員智勇：確實是五進五出，土海法送到貴院連討論都沒有討論，連排審都沒有排審，委員你也很清楚。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：委員送來的時候，這你不瞭解，我最清楚，因為是我送的，送來的時候正好是立法委員的任期要結束了，屆期不連續又退回了，是這樣的因素，並不是……"],["曾主任委員智勇：四次都沒有……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是沒有審，所以這個部分不能因為這樣就不送來。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好，我們也會整理後再送。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：院長，不能因為立法院……既然立法院沒有共識就趕快送來，不要自己承擔這個責任，行政院為什麼要去承擔這個責任，對不對？反過來是這麼一回事嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：確實如主委所說的，各方的共識目前一時還沒有辦法達到可以往前再走一大步，但是一步一步的往前走，這個方向一定是存在的。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：最後，時間的關係，我本來後面還有議題，但是重點就是，我質詢過很多次精良的軍備要有專精的國軍，預算一直調高，沒有問題，請國防部顧部長上來。但是我們的志願役逐年下降，退伍人數比招募的多，志願役士兵人力下降，志願役士兵大幅下降，每年都下降。薪資是一個很重要的因素，薪資每年按照軍公教調薪3%或4%，但是距離勞工的平均薪資四萬六千多差距很大，我也質詢過邱國正部長，他答詢說我們都希望提升軍人薪資，但是從110年11月2日到現在，所以這個部分請行政院支持，部長，就提報嘛！部長，再多再好的武器……"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我們已經提報了，院長今天早上也講了，很快就會核定下來。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，請院長趕快核定，謝謝院長，謝謝部長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員為國軍請命，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","接下來我們請登記第40號郭國文委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","羅美玲","張嘉郡","林楚茵","黃健豪","林岱樺","邱鎮軍","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","廖先翔","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","郭國文","謝龍介","沈伯洋","張智倫","陳雪生"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2025-03-18"],"gazette_id":"1142601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142601_00004","1142601_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1142601_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}