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優良 演技十足不知道你有沒有一百港幣我看你的演講是很厲害的你以前出來我就沒辦法吃"},{"start":95.47,"end":102.856,"text":"郭委員我覺得那不是演講,我是在說老實話演講就是演講你如果說老實話,待會我就說給你聽什麼叫老實話我也知道藍絲就是債庫啦債民說很多人三不足啦光你吃就把錢拿來而已我為什麼要這樣說"},{"start":122.694,"end":134.685,"text":"因為你們是公保門,每天修理的每天整理的都要你們負責嘛,對不對?但是案子的過程中,有很多說法不能開的有一些不便的啦,吃虧的無所不知啦所以我們緊張,我跟報告委員"},{"start":145.643,"end":152.328,"text":"我又跟台南市國民黨的黨團議會 跟某黨的黨團因為昨日是在地的議員嘛我們再去四五百的災民 副市長 五人的局長都在那邊跟人家說中央?我告訴你 我是很感謝你喔我說中央你還沒算一個數字 你是中央什麼的你就看那間清清的 看這間八十八里八百還沒數字"},{"start":177.112,"end":188.256,"text":"中央要怎麼處理啊還是好知道當我熱情做起床的時候0206那43億的省份冬季時要去做土壤移化我就把它凍起來了就剩下這10百億風太開開了,還有10萬億就只剩下這100億可以用了沒有時間吃飯"},{"start":203.032,"end":211.476,"text":"你還跟那些財民說 唉唷 兩家夭壽喔那行政議長說你們才有這麼多錢 都沒有衛生紙還能贏啊叫我把這支衛生紙趕快帶給你先贏啊他說你比他們更慘啊我說沒有啊 你們每天都這麼慘他說沒有啊 行政議比我們更慘說記者要來採訪喔 要扁手就要自己找衛生紙"},{"start":228.49,"end":245.02,"text":"還要我加一句話說什麼拜託你拜託到議長還有另外一槍把他送給監察院說監察院不可以行動對啊對啊所以世民都有看所以我說你做好演講表現不錯議長你打起來我是對你寵問忌諱嘛到目前我也是寵問忌諱"},{"start":257.608,"end":263.772,"text":"早期東華運動就是說 衝突 特約有一點點進步但是你這次來齁衝突 衝突 再衝突當然 你如果要說 哇 這無聲無息啦我是犯事 把你滾啦 我對你義勇真尊敬啦"},{"start":286.613,"end":289.154,"text":"一百四年,我們國家的工資是一條七千七百六十幾億一百五年是一條八千兩百二十四億一百六年是一條八千四百十一億這是臨時做議定的時候"},{"start":317.332,"end":322.015,"text":"從前來做議長是一條九千六百六十九億到現在所議長來講是兩條空七百七十六億所議長做到一百十一年但今年議長來講兩條六千八百九十一億到現在在幾年來是兩條八千五百十九億"},{"start":344.653,"end":350.155,"text":"今年有省起來有差不多兩條高清高霸八十六條 差不多中間三條啦你一直挨被叫 這樣也沒辦法 這樣也沒辦法 這樣也沒辦法 這樣也沒辦法你在這大中間 給我打電話給我收音的地方沒有嘛你給我請到老總統 說你是不是肥民的中間 跟我說 欸 總統啊"},{"start":374.688,"end":384.217,"text":"你以前一條高清規則是怎麼做的,你靠我做這樣,做得不錯餐廳說你做行政移動,做得不錯一條高清規則呢現在搞了你兩條高清規則,你說沒辦法做這點我是覺得說,你不是沒辦法做因為你總要靜地化,這樣可笑了我過去對你的淫脈,不是這樣"},{"start":402.304,"end":410.33,"text":"所以 很多人在跟我說 花臨到尖了 我說沒意義啦如果來到國會的典禁 大家要再好嘴小噴不是改革事情的方式啦我記一個例子給你看讓我們普京來做美國總統的時候 現在有二十個在我們統國有省的時候他這樣堆堆在國會 國會的中間"},{"start":434.003,"end":445.252,"text":"馬斯克這樣把他查了,他再拜託人家把自己政府內的巫生不懂的、浪費的、消謀的,隆重把他抓起來這樣刪差不多兩條的美金啦,送下來過去,老總統在這事件的時候,你問單叔叔,說得對我在俄羅斯公寓,災情的紀錄不錯"},{"start":463.661,"end":474.185,"text":"現在也是一樣現在也是一樣現在也是一樣現在也是一樣現在也是一樣現在也是一樣現在也是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣現在還是一樣"},{"start":493.179,"end":502.885,"text":"他說一戶戶要給他發五千塊美金五千塊美金 第二部份 五千塊美金給多少台幣十六萬我最近認識這個美國朋友 我感覺他越來越有魄力我在新加坡也有一個朋友姓吳 叫做吳孫宅"},{"start":522.628,"end":526.971,"text":"嘿嘿 新加坡人 一個人要發兩萬澳門稅金撤銷 17人來問一個澳門的國民 發四萬的代表所以 國民黨的提案 今年撤銷差不多五千三百億"},{"start":547.554,"end":575.225,"text":"2年2年2年2年3年呢 隆重啊 手手的稅金出的來自要有1票 空600 60億所以在你的手裡呢 能夠應用到很多啦 應該找到好好的參賽者來探討一下我們台出 環水移民 台灣台出市到大理會 一人大小漢堡輪都而已一萬"},{"start":579.339,"end":595.564,"text":"這樣就要兩千三百四十億這是合情合理但是我知道你們不可能讓我這麼好睡你國民黨拿一萬你可能會加一萬二萬五我六官幾成錢又賺到多少了改欠的欠改欠的欠給人民有一點幸福感有時候要扭轉利"},{"start":605.598,"end":620.148,"text":"會去死,我待會會再跟你說你現在的願意度到哪裡,到副成員頭到尾,整座庭內,我們的臨環政策,很快都破壞你補台鐵,我聽不下去為什麼說補一千億,他就不會給我們企業,你胡說八道的他給我們補三百一千億,給我們企業企業失敗"},{"start":633.391,"end":648.601,"text":"他都說有風波啊他在做風吹發電啊你再補他一千億也沒意義啦一千億補他 沒補他 現在說要把他賠錢 棄價是各位 我們的民生喔要結納差不多一百塊 七百二百塊沒有關係啦 你就給人民一人給發一萬啦喔 他們的納電錢過頭過頭啦補助台電 它不斷地上升"},{"start":662.165,"end":682.137,"text":"這件事 公典 我想告結這就是人員政策的不同 無心不作啦公主公有說 無藥索 無減消離藥索這不得 減消離這台數不行吃雞都沒辦法嘛 但是這不是你的政策啊你人家吃不來 你想要扭轉"},{"start":693.305,"end":716.665,"text":"也再十個月來,沒看到看到你流轉天坤的效力,因為什麼?你專門在釣魚屋島這最可笑在這裡啦用一點精神,大家來講大家來想想,沒有那個做不夠的啦你如果做不夠,就回去問蘇貞昌、問賴清德、問單健營"},{"start":719.62,"end":747.638,"text":"說是怎麼做 你家的過去可以做啊我倒平台現在沒辦法讓人家做我現在來跟你說這個打雜 你現在剛才在看齁 跟人家看得這麼辛苦我可以講一件就好嗎 跟你報告一件事你剛才在說有算 今年有算差不多三條嘛有年假擔保法嘛 是啊是啊有時候我沒辦法做 因為你知不知道這三條裡面有兩千八百控六億是有年沒的"},{"start":749.849,"end":765.422,"text":"新增四項 我跟你說啦新增也好啦 股價也好啦 叫做協商啦你沒來協商 說這麼多百 你都沒聽到啊2800億的新增四項 這個新增四項如果把它補起來宗教在這裡也跟你說啦 有自愛難行 冠軍上來奔飛"},{"start":772.941,"end":789.324,"text":"你現在總統也不會說話我在副議之前就說了總統也不會說話 沒關係來那會說一遍啦你如果說這樣我就說會說一遍嘛所以很牽連 我說他的新政事項2800億不應該用這種國會新選的手勢去欺騙人家我沒有欺騙你說我你下鄉我也下鄉啦下禮拜我來台南我歡迎你來下鄉你下鄉我也下鄉嘛你來現場聽 我可以報告清楚沒問題啊"},{"start":802.308,"end":802.776,"text":"你害我 我也害你"},{"start":805.134,"end":813.496,"text":"會說會人 不會在說地方不是你說你的 我說我的不是這樣有要說沒有要說 韓院長請你解釋我告訴你 你也是我習近平的前輩"},{"start":834.298,"end":841.645,"text":"你都沒在接電話,我打給你你也沒在接我打給你變詐騙電話我叫你詐騙電話所以我沒在接啦我不顯示號碼就對了,好來你覺得NCC有來嗎?你來,這一定可能沒什麼了解,但是他們需要"},{"start":862.915,"end":891.161,"text":"有MC就是說,當機時NCC是很好,要讓電話公司業務開墾更好你聽得懂嗎?這是電信主義法的時候的例子所以當機時有這個阿台電信跟台灣之星電信公司結果因為他們覺得大哥大不釋放但是現在我們所有的"},{"start":892.666,"end":899.848,"text":"電信公司都有事化 有大割大你覺得你同期時開放這個業務就對了 告訴我我們家有一個電話 事化我要卡出來 我卡給卓院長 我給你顯示賴清德的來電號碼顯示賴清德的大割大 可以嗎 不可以可以 不可以"},{"start":914.653,"end":938.171,"text":"跟委員報告 那我們的號碼 就是互聯辦法裡頭有規定必須要有透通信 必須要 撥的號碼跟售貨方號碼必須要一致 那如果他是選擇兩段式的撥接的方式的話那是有存在一些灰色地帶你看 贏了 詐騙那麼多 會當作人不做 這樣才過年要死"},{"start":941.292,"end":948.359,"text":"我告訴你,他拋得很輕鬆我告訴你,你警察拋得很輕鬆我告訴你,他拋得很輕鬆我告訴你,你警察拋得很輕鬆我告訴你,你警察拋得很輕鬆"},{"start":962.349,"end":973.253,"text":"我用集團 而且他為什麼 同樣我這個電話喔我今天卡 你知道照片嗎 我不知道能不能改造韓國瑜的電話號碼顯示啦 電顯示 但是我是用這個電話卡的他只要每天申請 每天申請報 檢查官 檢證書 書店有來嗎內政部長"},{"start":990.282,"end":994.925,"text":"社群網路電話部分我們現在正在處理下個月大概就會有一些網組跟語音警視"},{"start":1015.225,"end":1028.472,"text":"主委你怎麼不講話 我也先喝 詐騙的手段詐騙的手段一直在更新啦 我要跟著上速度講這麼嚴重 是是是 我跟你講 這真是所有現時出來的詐騙人他靠你的電話都記 你看到的訊息都記他搬我們家用電話 我們不吃肉啦你也不吃 我也不吃肉 你聽到嗎 除非我們家的電話啦"},{"start":1041.721,"end":1050.669,"text":"所以他現在說你敢顯示是大誇大的辯護大小人就叫他拚了你看我們三個拚了,看多少就好了所以我不是在跟你借錢,我是在說要怎麼免費,免費還要有啊有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有,有所以"},{"start":1066.567,"end":1077.07,"text":"這就是我們電信裡面給的整個叫電信自由法單純電話這回的法律專修你這樣就不會在整個這件事都收拾起來 沒意義啦這段 保釋到那個詐騙集團警察官跟警察查查查 查到這個電話裡查到了 後來是上車 他還給你換一支電話"},{"start":1094.002,"end":1107.597,"text":"又換一支電話 兩天可以換一倍你不知道啊你你不知道的 你不提供給我你不提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我 沒提供給我"},{"start":1115.828,"end":1142.591,"text":"感謝委員這個提示 我想在這個初大上要更加進步 這開始是唯一不然我們沒辦法來援助人民對我們的期待所以我們來嚴防這樣的方式 一定要馬上找出方式來各位來 把本意都給我了你如果真的拖一段路 你要給我求我沒辦法 沒辦法 你們這麼高人喔我今天講這個就是 明明現在進行式的"},{"start":1146.241,"end":1161.256,"text":"現在進行是啊你有沒有感覺是各位我要求我們所有的部委有關的部委馬上提出一個因為這個看起來這個行為來看我們是既然了解他的行為我們就要想出對策"},{"start":1163.186,"end":1179.456,"text":"我面臨體度對峙了我現在是跟你說這各位 我的意思是說 你們如果真的好玩等這各位今天全國的人民都聽到這種情報 他們都有每天收到這個詐騙的電話你看 他的內心是多痛 你知道嗎 原來政府是可以作動的我不敢說昨天早上沒有詐騙但是一定有好的工作 我們要做啦好 再來喔"},{"start":1193.305,"end":1211.077,"text":"這一點就是我要說的留學生的問題很可憐,我們自己賣,人還是法國的年輕人不要這樣一百零二年,我們經過的學生差不多三四萬人,你知道嗎?同期是2013年高中生,來我們這裡讀高中的,九百三十六個"},{"start":1221.633,"end":1239.84,"text":"九百三十六個,一百零二年的時候,在鄉下,在鄉下挖掘的那個是高中生啊,這上面是大專生啊,所以大專生是正常的行動嘛,你看挖掘的這個高中生,一百零二年是九百三十六個,一百三十年耶,"},{"start":1244.162,"end":1252.506,"text":"變成境外的大學生 學生當中是九萬一千的但是高中生對九百三十六個變成一萬三千的讓高中生來我們台灣留學的這支 天下十幾你不知道看的這批報告很清楚這叫做血汗 跟血汗鑽石一樣"},{"start":1273.424,"end":1290.678,"text":"那他就去做工啦 他不是來託車阿麻吃麻不吃 吃吃不喝麻建交合作他去台北跟山東那些核心齁說這三十幾間行都佔了六島的台灣一流的!裡面有人來台灣託過車我們以前的託車是不是很多叫聲有啊 齁人來台灣託過車說 啊這貨貨我比較不要聽過啦不要聽過啦"},{"start":1301.516,"end":1306.838,"text":"打起來的台階是要貼上去的結果給這核心裡面來的建教合作那一種教學合作就對工廠去好聽說去實施我跟你們說我三十幾年前在做工廠外銷我有一些工作在發霉的感覺在做"},{"start":1327.961,"end":1329.323,"text":"你這個叫做血汗工廠我的產品他沒有要買我不是要問他"},{"start":1343.387,"end":1361.632,"text":"因為這過程因為你剛提到的這部分我讓你們記一下因為那篇報導事實上是一個偽專題我敢在這邊解說因為有三個大錯誤一個是引用錯誤來啦你聽我說你聽我說啦我沒用你的主要我沒用你的話啦我不是在看你探討你跟他們說什麼他們說什麼啦不是這些學生其實是很認真來學習的啦"},{"start":1373.015,"end":1378.878,"text":"不要給他貼標籤啦你看,如果是這樣,不然我們還不來港中查看嗎?我們都有去看,我們都開始去,各個企業去看你們去看都漂亮啦你們也可以去企業看你們去看都冷革的啦,他就...我是他媳婦出來的"},{"start":1393.745,"end":1412.101,"text":"我是要跟你說 奉旨給美國這個領款 我們簽的領款都公佈了尤其這裏面有卡到美生年我們很重視領款的問題 所以集體不準領號就很好 你這樣做 做得很好我這個處理 我要讓他知道當然我 賈青傑 我不在乎 我不跟你說你怎樣對不對"},{"start":1421.171,"end":1430.183,"text":"因為他們說這個問題最主要是社會關注就如果跟他有主觀、有關、尤其沒有,請你們出來說明查好清楚我們再來對話嘛"},{"start":1434.167,"end":1452.203,"text":"是真假真假,但是真假不是壞事查國外申啦讓他好好,我可以修律,工場有工人請,好事啦,好事查國外申對我們的勞力也很滿意,政績很好,我給你額熱一下這都是多贏的局面這可以先來做副議長,來"},{"start":1463.066,"end":1467.608,"text":"市委員的鼓勵,我們會持續的團隊努力補充加油補充加油民進黨裡面最近這個網絡負聲量你是算筆數,你是第二名算筆論,你又抄襪寡見名"},{"start":1489.943,"end":1517.815,"text":"你說變第一名,所以這就是我對你不甘的所在你過去不是這樣的人前幾天你沒有議我你還選過第一名的曹新成你看他到69.98%而已結果你73.87%我現在想你探討的就是說政策跟施政到底你是有什麼正義的你下去跟你們所有的安排跟政策的推動"},{"start":1520.285,"end":1532.828,"text":"你有沒有感覺,你不是只挑戰在野動民,你還在挑戰人民挑戰人民的底線讓它失敗,一直在在地上,三二四,四二五我們台灣,坦白說,教育的破棄,大家對民主的作用都很侵犯差不多我們每一個人身上一定都有民主的DNA"},{"start":1546.394,"end":1568.646,"text":"但你卡不住地上沒有,你都替中國講話,你都統會有的沒的這位主席,你不是對我說,但是最好保我所謂的保育手段,不可以在我身上固定你去等他問多少天,看他對我這樣說的時候,我什麼反應人齁,政敵利益可以增,就像君主愛宅出一幼的一樣"},{"start":1575.592,"end":1604.381,"text":"正在你的領口特長處不可以出政局敢競 鬼怪 賣古董所以你並不是說有做什麼不對啊所以變成你贏這麼多人才但是事情沒兩點出來你給北省五位說 啊他都沒人才所以出來跟人才那些都好處小朋友我告訴你也不是 這裡都人才啊像這個郭新聞我們台南的"},{"start":1606.571,"end":1621.363,"text":"像中央議員一樣像這個主委這種都不信的啊 我跟你說的事情這個暫時都沒中 這種全靠的啊搞到一個沒人知道的但是說給你這個竟然想要揶揄你這個人才說所做的事情沒辦法突顯出來就變成沒辦法突顯到你倒下去的情形"},{"start":1634.824,"end":1653.372,"text":"出來的時候都變負面了 整個都想的啊這樣不是對你來說不公平 又做不得我可以很虛心來接受所有的批評 但是你看那個運動部長爭議 後面現在鄭士忠 那就假的事情了鬧那個爭議鬧那個爭議 鬧那個爭議運動部長爭議 鄭士忠鬧那個爭議"},{"start":1664.338,"end":1686.432,"text":"我告訴你 能源政策失能 我們現在能源政策穩定的找多元綠能阿伯這條我給你解釋 能源政策你解釋下去只要一點啦 就是說 如果只要 柏惟委員的意見就是說我如果把河山廠賣給園藝就不會失能不是這樣 我告訴你 我為什麼要跟你說吃緊都不會破碗 當然是"},{"start":1689.759,"end":1715.376,"text":"國民黨主席說 以核養力我們都需要綠能但是我們知道 綠能起來不太快速啊所以 維新婦人繼續在全世界 婦人電廠40年後期都要壓20年偏偏啊 整棟維就2.25年 會婦人的家屬這個新珠牌啊 我當然不期待你去突破但是"},{"start":1717.177,"end":1719.221,"text":"李鴻麟已經回應博弈了博弈你已經達成宿命了"},{"start":1725.171,"end":1745.531,"text":"現在就能夠叫經濟部 叫內建宜 免費加費 請他就可以選擇我跟你說 乎一乎二乎三 你要知道的原因有多大因為現在是暫停 要保存五年 所以那都沒問題在Token 基礎安全的狀況下"},{"start":1747.213,"end":1755.785,"text":"我們希望可以快速恢復這12%的用電,這樣對你未來的市場,越好投資,那時候你就一虎一鳥電了我現在新的想法,減碳先行,目標淨零"},{"start":1765.319,"end":1776.326,"text":"我告訴你 你的金銀碳牌做不夠 有什麼你回去背叛先行啊因為我們現在看到澳門所有的規定我們都忘記了但是你開始在做啦包括這個彭啟民 開始 有一個好的開始 OK"},{"start":1789.954,"end":1805.019,"text":"我同意雖然現在沒有選擇但是這次是一個好的開始面對世界的交流那麼世界的交流就是希望會有符令美國、日本、澳洲都可以認知符令正確的選擇"},{"start":1809.278,"end":1830.043,"text":"希望你們的年可以聽到你開啟福林用電的好聲音好消息能不能政策核能你就贊成我對不對你開空 沒有人安裝我還要贊成我安裝我是沒有贊成的這個命題是有問題的嘛我虛心接受 繼續努力謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":440,"blocks":[["謝委員龍介：（16時30分）請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["謝委員龍介：院長辛苦了，我從災區來的，大家都問你災民的事情，今天剛好都是我們臺南的。辛苦了，楠西來的！"],["卓院長榮泰：楠西跟這個……為什麼用衛生紙？"],["謝委員龍介：我講給你聽，但是先感謝你對臺南的照顧，感謝！"],["卓院長榮泰：這不用感謝，這是應該的，大家都應該這樣做，對受到災害的國人都應該這樣做。"],["謝委員龍介：但是他們都問不到重點，災民還沒安置、還沒估出來，你怎麼知道要給他多少錢，你也沒辦法……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以時間……"],["謝委員龍介：你剛剛答應月底，我跟你說，很危險！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是去看。"],["謝委員龍介：月底要去看，要講清楚。"],["卓院長榮泰：我月底一定會去……"],["謝委員龍介：如果可以解決我就稱讚你，感謝你！"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝你稱讚我。"],["謝委員龍介：你實在是表現很好、優良、演技十足！院長，我真的不知道你也有這項功夫，我看你在演講真的很厲害，如果你早點出來，我看我就沒飯吃了。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我覺得我那不是演講，我是在講老實話。"],["謝委員龍介：怎麼不是演講？那就是在演講，你如果講老實話，等一下我就講給你聽什麼叫做老實話。","我早上在楠西，也就是災區，災民說很多人送物資，只有你謝龍介拿現金來，我為什麼要這樣說？因為你們是公部門，該幫忙修理、整理的都是你們要負責，對不對？但是在安置的過程中有很多公款不能花的，有一些不便的、吃食等等的無所不至，所以我們儘量……"],["卓院長榮泰：對，有所限制。"],["謝委員龍介：到半個月前，我還跟臺南市議會國民黨黨團及無黨團結聯盟黨團，因為周奕齊就是在地的議員，我們過去的時候，四、五百個災民、副市長及五、六個局長都在那裡，只有在期盼中央！我是很感謝你，我說你如果不算一個數字是要中央做什麼，你不就要趕快清點，看這一間是80、120還是180，結果也沒有數字，中央要怎麼幫你處理？幸好在賴清德當市長的時候，0206那43億的善款當初要去做土壤液化，我就擋住了，剛好剩18億，風災花一花還有十多億，剛好這次可以用，不然真的很悽慘！","結果災民跟我說什麼？他說「龍介，夭壽喔！行政院長說你們把預算砍到都沒有衛生紙可以用」，叫我把這一車衛生紙趕快載來給你們先用，他說你們比他們還慘！我說沒有啊，你們地震這麼慘；他說沒有，行政院比我們還慘，記者如果要來採訪，上廁所還要自己帶衛生紙！他還教我一句話，你拜託卓院長，還有另外一車送給監察院，說監察院也沒有衛生紙！"],["卓院長榮泰：我正好要跟委員說，要送一些去監察院。"],["謝委員龍介：對啊，所以災民都有看到，所以我說你很會演講、表現不錯。","院長，你剛上任的時候我對你充滿期待，到目前我還是充滿期待，早期黨外運動就是衝突、妥協、有一點進步，但你近一年來的表現是衝突、衝突、再衝突！當然你如果要說這個預算無所不至，我是不好意思跟你吵，我對你一向很尊敬，104年我們公務預算是……你不用看那些，那些還沒有到，等一下跟你說，104年我們公務預算是一兆七千七百六十幾億，105年是1兆8,224億，106年是1兆8,411億，這是林全在當院長的時候，到清德兄當院長時是1兆9,669億，到蘇院長來接的時候是2兆776億，蘇院長做到111年，陳建仁院長來接的時候是2兆6,891億，到卓院長去年來的時候是2兆8,519億，今年預算差不多2兆9,986億，差不多將近3兆，你一直唉唉叫說這樣沒辦法做，那樣也沒辦法做，你在這段期間有沒有打電話給蘇院長？沒有嘛！你有沒有請教賴總統，就是你跟他會面時有沒有問總統他那時候一兆九千多億是怎麼做的，他怎麼有辦法做得這麼好呢？謝龍介說他當行政院長做得不錯，一兆九千多億，現在交給你的時候是二兆九千多億，你說沒辦法做，我覺得你不是沒辦法做，院長現在政治化了，這樣可惜了，因為我過去對你的認知不是這樣，所以很多人在跟我說為什麼不修理你，我說沒意義，如果來到國會殿堂，大家還要「戽水相噴」，這不是解決事情的方式。","我舉一個例子給你看，川普當美國總統是在1月20日上任，剛好是我們通過預算的時候，他這樣短短一個多月的時間，馬斯克查下去，他還拜託人家把自己政府裡面預算有不當的、浪費的、消磨的部分全部把它抓起來，刪了差不多兩兆美金，省下來，過去賴總統在當市長的時候，你問陳淑姿主計長，我一直誇獎說他財政紀律不錯，怎麼現在卻不會做了。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在也是一樣。"],["謝委員龍介：現在卻不會做。"],["卓院長榮泰：也是一樣……"],["謝委員龍介：我幫你省這麼多錢，美國總統川普這裡刪預算、那裡刪預算，當然會有人罵，所以不滿意度看起來有57%，但是他了說一句話，選民在等，美國鄉親在期待，他說一戶要發5,000塊美金，5,000塊美金這麼好，院長知不知道5,000塊的美金是臺幣多少？16萬，我最近認識的這位美國朋友，我覺得他越來越有魄力，我在新加坡也認識一個朋友姓黃，叫做黃循財，要給每一個新加坡人2萬，澳門稅金超收17年來，每一個澳門國民發4萬臺幣，所以國民黨才會提案，去年超收差不多5,300億，2021、2022、2023年超收的稅金剩下來的錢還有1兆660億，所以你手裡可以運用的錢很多，應該坐下來好好跟在野黨探討一下。我們當初提出還稅於民，臺灣人民從新生兒到120歲，無論年齡大小每個人都領1萬，這樣剛好是2,340億，這是合情合理的，但是我知道你們不可能讓我們這麼好過，國民黨提議1萬，你可能會加成1萬2或1萬5，我樂觀其成。錢再賺就有了，該省的省、該花的花，讓人民有一點點幸福感，有時候會扭轉你的氣勢，我等一下會再跟你說你現在的滿意度以及負聲量到哪裡。","現在回過頭來說，我們的能源政策是「呷緊弄破碗」，你們說要補助台電我聽不下去，為什麼？說補助它1,000億，它就不會漲電價，這根本是胡說八道！我們補助它3次1,000億，結果它卻漲價漲4次，它講的話都飄在風中，因為它在做風力發電啊！你再補助它1,000億也沒意義啦！不補助它1,000億，它現在說要漲老百姓的電價，一個月的民生用電差不多要多繳100元至120元。沒有關係啦！人民一人發1萬，讓他們來繳電費就「過頭過臉」了。補助台電它卻不圖上進，造成光電官商勾結，這就是能源政策的不當，務實不足啦！孔子曾說：無欲速，無見小利。欲速則不達，見小利則大事不成。「呷緊弄破碗」嘛！但這不是你的政策，你接任之後想要扭轉，不過這10個月來都沒有看到，看不到你扭轉乾坤的效力，為什麼？因為你著眼在朝野惡鬥，最可惜的就在這裡。用一點精神，大家來討論、大家來協商，沒有做不到的，你如果做不到，就回去問蘇貞昌、問賴清德、問陳建仁看看要怎麼做，為什麼他們過去可以做，而卓榮泰現在卻沒辦法做？","我現在來跟你討論打詐，你剛才這樣看可能覺得很有趣……"],["卓院長榮泰：我可以說一樣就好嗎？跟你報告一件事情。"],["謝委員龍介：好，你說。"],["卓院長榮泰：你剛才提到預算，今年的預算差不多3兆，比去年增加一點。"],["謝委員龍介：是啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：為什麼我們不能做？委員，你知道這3兆裡面有2,806億是去年沒有的，那是新增事項。"],["謝委員龍介：我告訴你，無論新增也好、舊減也好，都應該要協商。第一、你沒有來協商。第二……"],["卓院長榮泰：講那麼多次你都沒聽到啊！其中有2,806億的新增事項，這些新增事項如果把它扣除……"],["謝委員龍介：總召在這裡也跟你們說了，如果窒礙難行就趕快送來本會，現在總統也還沒公告……"],["卓院長榮泰：這我在覆議之前就說了。"],["謝委員龍介：總統也還沒公告啊！沒關係……"],["卓院長榮泰：這個……"],["謝委員龍介：那個可以討論啦！你這樣講，我就跟你說那可以討論嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：很顯然我說的新增事項2,806億，委員還是……"],["謝委員龍介：你不應該用國會這種神聖的數字去欺騙百姓。"],["卓院長榮泰：我沒有欺騙。"],["謝委員龍介：我跟你說，你下鄉，我也下鄉啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：下禮拜我如果去臺南，歡迎你來……"],["謝委員龍介：你下鄉，我也下鄉嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：你來現場聽，我可以報告得清楚一點。"],["謝委員龍介：沒問題啊！你下鄉，我也下鄉，賣花的說花紅、賣茶的說茶香……"],["卓院長榮泰：你不能說新增出來的兩千多億是……"],["謝委員龍介：並不是你說你的、我說我的……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是這樣。"],["謝委員龍介：朝小野大，在國會我們多數就是事實，但是你不來協商，不來協商還和我們「戽水相噴」……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員……"],["謝委員龍介：不幸啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：我有沒有要來協商，韓院長清清楚楚。"],["謝委員龍介：請問你有沒有接過詐騙電話？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有。"],["謝委員龍介：你都沒在接電話？對，我打給你，你也都不接。"],["卓院長榮泰：我以為是詐騙電話，我當然不敢接啊！"],["謝委員龍介：我打給你變成詐騙電話？"],["卓院長榮泰：我以為是詐騙電話，所以我不敢接啊！"],["謝委員龍介：我沒顯示號碼就對了？"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["謝委員龍介：NCC有來嗎？這個問題院長可能不太了解，但是很需要，FMC就是當時NCC好意要讓電信公司業務開拓得更好，你聽得懂嗎？這就是電信自由化時的產物，所以當時是為了亞太電信跟台灣之星這些電信公司，結果因為他們只有大哥大，沒有市話，但是現在我們所有的電信公司都有市話、有大哥大。你知道你們當時開放這個業務，假如我家有一支電話，市話啦，我要打出去，打給卓院長，來電號碼卻顯示賴清德的大哥大，可不可以？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員報告，我們的號碼在互聯辦法都有規定，必須要有透通性，撥的號碼跟受話方的號碼必須要一致，如果它是選擇兩段式撥接方式的話，是有存在一些灰色地帶。"],["謝委員龍介：你看，院長，詐騙那麼多，可以做的不做，檢察官抓得要死，法院卻判那麼輕，法官說你們檢察官做的筆錄就說車手也是被騙去當車手的。部長，我跟你說，我現在電話打出去，我打給你的時候顯示的是你太太的電話號碼，你知道嗎？院長，有嚴重嗎？而且詐騙集團他們是怎麼樣？一樣是我這支電話，我今天打，你知道是詐騙了，明天我的來電顯示可以改成韓國瑜的電話號碼，但是我是用這支電話打的，他只要每天申請、每天申請就行。檢察官、警政署……今天署長有來嗎？"],["主席：內政部長……"],["謝委員龍介：這整個你們要去查，就要怎麼樣？中華電信就會叫你來公文、要現金啦，一筆裡面多少錢、多少錢，民間還會配合，不然民間的就要換了，你要查這支，這個要辦案，我趕快把資料給你。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員報告，涉及到網路電話的部分，我們現在正在處理。"],["謝委員龍介：你不要跟我說正在處理，我現在……"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：下個月大概就會有一些攔阻跟語音警示。"],["謝委員龍介：不是啦！主委，你現在跟我說這個……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我也承認詐騙的手法……"],["謝委員龍介：院長，我們來對話，就是說……"],["卓院長榮泰：詐騙的手法一直在更新，我們要跟得上速度。"],["謝委員龍介：這麼嚴重！"],["卓院長榮泰：是、是、是。"],["謝委員龍介：我跟你說真的，所有顯示出來詐騙的，他打給你們的電話都是假的，你看到的顯示都是假的，一般我們的家用電話，我們不接了啦！你不接，我也不接了，你聽得懂嗎？除非是我們家的電話，所以他現在都把你改成顯示大哥大的電話，大人、小孩都被騙了，你看我們的詐騙件數有多少就好了，所以我不是在跟你爭論，我是在說要怎麼面對，對症下藥啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["謝委員龍介：「食著藥，青草一葉；食毋著藥，人參一石」，你聽得懂嗎？所以現在就是說你要怎麼讓二類電信回歸到電信自由化，單純節費電話的批發、轉售，你這樣乾脆把這些業務都收起來，因為沒意義了啦！這樣剛好讓那些詐騙集團賺翻了，檢察官跟警察查、查、查，查到這支電話的來頭，查到了原來是誰打的，他又換了一支電話，他每兩天可以換一次，你不知道啊！你怎麼會不知道呢？地檢署沒有提供給法務部，沒有提供給內政部嘛，尤其是當時的數發部，院長，就是這樣啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：是，感謝委員的提醒，我想在處置的手段上要更加進步，確實是這樣，不然我們沒辦法來滿足人民對我們的期待。"],["謝委員龍介：在1個月內……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們來嚴防這樣的方式，一定要馬上找出方式來。"],["謝委員龍介：我跟你說，在1個月內給本院答復，你如果真的拖1個月，你就會被我笑，我不騙你。你們這些部長都是厲害的人，我今天說的這些明明是現在進行式，是現在進行式啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：是、是、是。"],["謝委員龍介：院長，有需要1個月嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我會要求我們所有有關的部會馬上提出一個方法，因為看起來這個行為，我們既然了解，就要想出對策。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們已經提出對策了，下個月開始……"],["謝委員龍介：我現在是跟你說一個月了，我的意思是說，你如果真的讓我們等1個月，今天全國人民都聽到這種情形，他每天都有接到詐騙的電話，你看他的內心有多痛，你知道嗎？原來政府是可以阻擋的啊！我不敢說這樣就會沒有詐騙，但是院長，有效的工作我們要做好啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["謝委員龍介：好，再來，這一點要跟你說留學生的問題。很可憐啦！我們自己不好，不要害死別國的孩子，不要這樣啦！102年我們境外的學生差不多三、四萬人，院長，2013年來我們這裡讀高中的高中生有936個，就是最後面、底下那個灰色的部分就是高中生，而上面這是大專生，所以大專生是正常這樣成長的。你看下面灰色的高中生，102年是936個，113年境外學生總共是9萬1,000個，但是高中生從936個變1萬3,000個，怎麼會是高中生來我們臺灣留學呢？院長，這期的天下雜誌，你不知道有沒有看到？這篇報導很清楚，這叫做血汗，跟血汗鑽石一樣，他們一來就去工作，他不是來讀書的，「瞞者瞞不識，識者不能瞞」，建教合作嘛！在去泰北跟那些學生宣導的時候，說這三十幾間學校都讚的、臺灣一流的，他們裡面有人來臺灣讀過書，我們以前讀書是不是很多僑生？"],["卓院長榮泰：有啊！"],["謝委員龍介：有人來臺灣讀過書，說這些學校我怎麼不曾聽過？是不曾聽過的，查起來大概是要退場的，結果讓這些學生進來就做建教合作那種的，教學合作然後就去了工廠，講好聽是實習。我跟你說，我三十幾年前在做工廠外銷，我有一些工作在法務部的監獄在做，做到後來美國說你這叫做血汗工廠，我的產品他不跟我買了，這樣你聽懂了嗎？院長，我不是要問你，因為這過程……"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，你剛剛提到的這部分，我要澄清一下……"],["謝委員龍介：我跟你說……"],["徐委員長佳青：因為那一篇報導，事實上是一個偽專題，我敢在這邊說，因為有三個大錯誤，第一個是引用錯誤……"],["謝委員龍介：沒關係啦！來啦，你聽我說……"],["徐委員長佳青：把我們沒有講的話，塞到我們的嘴巴……"],["謝委員龍介：你聽我說啦……"],["徐委員長佳青：所以我要更正…"],["謝委員龍介：主委啊！我沒有用你說的話啦！我不是在跟你探討你跟他們說什麼，然後它寫什麼啦！"],["徐委員長佳青：是，這些學生是很認真來學習的啦，不要給他貼標籤啦！"],["謝委員龍介：你看，如果是這樣，不然我們去工廠查看看。"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，我們都有去看，確實有去各個企業看……"],["謝委員龍介：你們去看都漂亮的……"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，你也可以去企業看看……"],["謝委員龍介：你去看都是看到門面啦！"],["徐委員長佳青：你也可以問企業的意見。"],["謝委員龍介：院長，我是做實務界出身的，我是要跟你說，防止美國這個人權……我們有簽訂人權兩公約，尤其這裡面有牽涉到未成年。"],["徐委員長佳青：我們很重視人權的問題，所以絕對不允許人口販賣……"],["謝委員龍介：很好，你這樣做得很好，但這個數字我要讓院長知道。佳青姊，我沒有在怪你，我也沒有說你怎樣，對不對？今天探討這個問題，最主要是社會關注……"],["卓院長榮泰：因為如果跟他的主管業務有關，他有義務和責任出來說明。"],["謝委員龍介：你去查清楚然後我們再來對話嘛！確實……"],["徐委員長佳青：我就查過了，是增加很多，但是增加不是壞事。"],["謝委員龍介：好啦！查過就好……"],["卓院長榮泰：這叫僑外生啦！"],["謝委員龍介：就讓那些學校可以活、可以有收入，工廠也有工人能請，好事啦！這是好事，跟你恭喜啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：僑外生對我們的勞力也能提供緩解……"],["謝委員龍介：跟你恭喜喔，政績很好，我給你稱讚一下！"],["徐委員長佳青：這都是多贏的局面。"],["謝委員龍介：清德兄，這個人可以升上來當副院長了！院長，來……"],["徐委員長佳青：謝謝委員的鼓勵，我們會持續的團隊努力。"],["謝委員龍介：互相加油啦，互相加油啦！院長，在民進黨裡面，最近網路負聲量算排序你是第二名，如果算比率你還超越柯建銘，你變成第一名，這就是我對你不捨的地方，過去你不是這樣的人。政治人物除外，你還勝過第一名的曹興誠，你看他才69.98%而已，結果你73.87%。","我現在跟你探討的是，你的政策跟施政到底有什麼爭議呢？內閣人事的安排跟政策的推動，你讓我覺得你不是只是在挑戰在野黨而已，你還在挑戰人民，挑戰人民的底線。覆議一而再、再而三、三而四、四而五的失敗，坦白說，我們臺灣教育的普及，大家對民主素養都很深化，我們每個人的身上幾乎都有民主的DNA，但你們動不動就戴人家紅帽子，說他們都替中國說話、通匪等等，這種語言你是不曾對我說過，但是最好……包括所有的部會首長都不要將其用在我身上，你回去問賴清德，看他對我這樣說的時候我是什麼反應。","做人，政治利益可以爭，就像君子愛財，取之有道一樣，政治利益寧可直中取，莫向曲中求，「奸巧、鬼怪」不會長久。並不是你有做錯什麼，但你用了這麼多人才卻沒有施政亮點出來，你被百姓誤會說：他都沒有人才，所以才跟在野黨「戽水相噴」。我說：不是啊！這裡都是人才啊！像我們臺南的吳誠文，像中研院的院長還有主委都是很務實的，我跟他們說事情……像陳時中部長都是專業的，哪有一個不是人才？但是卻被朝野相罵淹沒了，導致這些人才所做的事情無法凸顯出來，變成無法凸顯你卓內閣的政績，所以變成負面，都在互相辱罵，這樣對你來說不是很不公平又不值得？"],["卓院長榮泰：我可以很虛心的接受所有批評，但是你看那個運動部長爭議後面寫著鄭世忠，那是假的事情，哪有那個爭議？"],["謝委員龍介：你說怎樣？來……"],["卓院長榮泰：哪有那個爭議？"],["謝委員龍介：哪一個爭議？"],["卓院長榮泰：運動部長爭議（鄭世忠），哪有那個爭議？"],["謝委員龍介：來，我跟你講……"],["卓院長榮泰：能源政策失能，我們現在能源政策穩定的找多元綠能……"],["謝委員龍介：後面這個我讓你解釋，可是能源政策你一解釋就會有點漏氣……"],["卓院長榮泰：這裡有一點，如果我照部分委員的意見，若我不要把核三廠延役就不會失能，就是這樣……"],["謝委員龍介：不是這樣，我講給你聽，為什麼剛才我說「呷緊弄破碗」？當初國民黨主張以核養綠，我們都需要綠能，但大家知道綠能沒辦法快速發展啊，所以要繼續維持核能，而且全世界核能電廠40年到期都要延役20年，偏偏貴黨為了2025年非核能家園這塊神主牌，當然我不期待你把它突破……"],["卓院長榮泰：現在已經沒有2025年了。"],["謝委員龍介：但是2025核能已經不見了。我去年就跟你說了，它不見了，你們已經達成使命了，現在就可以叫經濟部去延議，明年1月1日就可以宣布。我跟你說，核一、核二、核三還有辦法再延役的，因為現在是暫停，它要保存5年，所以那都沒問題，在土建、機組安全的狀況下，我們希望可以快速恢復這12%的用電，如此一來，對你未來的施政如虎添翼，那時候你就一飛沖天。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你有沒有聽過我現在新的想法？"],["謝委員龍介：嗯。"],["卓院長榮泰：減碳先行、目標淨零。"],["謝委員龍介：我跟你說，你的淨零碳排做不到啦，為什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以減碳要先行啊！"],["謝委員龍介：因為過去8年……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以減碳要先行……"],["謝委員龍介：所有的減碳都空轉，所以我們現在看到歐盟的所有規定都讓我們望塵莫及！"],["卓院長榮泰：第三期的國家目標也已經決定了……"],["謝委員龍介：雖然開始在做了，包括任命彭啓明，也算有一個好的開始，OK，我恭喜你！雖然現在還沒有成績，但這是一個好的開始。但我們要面對世界潮流，而世界潮流就是恢復核能，美國、日本、歐洲都打開迎接核能電廠的雙手，希望明年可以聽到你解開核能用電的好消息。"],["卓院長榮泰：能源政策用核能，這樣你就贊成我了，對不對？"],["謝委員龍介：安全才會贊成，不安全的話我是不贊成的！"],["卓院長榮泰：所以這個命題是有問題的！我虛心接受，繼續努力，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝謝龍介委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢。","我們等謝龍介委員的這些道具搬走後，我們再繼續質詢。謝謝議事處，辛苦了。","接下來我們請登記第42位沈伯洋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","羅美玲","張嘉郡","林楚茵","黃健豪","林岱樺","邱鎮軍","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","廖先翔","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","郭國文","謝龍介","沈伯洋","張智倫","陳雪生"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2025-03-18"],"gazette_id":"1142601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142601_00004","1142601_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1142601_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}