{"error":false,"id":["159318"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":159318,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159318","日期":"2025-03-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-3-26-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-03-19T09:12:43+08:00","結束時間":"2025-03-19T09:23:37+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:54","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8d8da86eec6b25b80bf9e2617a48b51039fe1519e09d1f6f03218e34103c684ff82bc5d892225b265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"09:12:43 - 09:23:37","會議時間":"2025-03-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算決議有關勞動部預算凍結報告案19案。【報告事項】【如經復議則不予處理】\n三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於勞動部主管部分。\n【3月17日、19日及20日三天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.48659375000000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.443468750000001,"end":8.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.19846875,"end":9.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.825968750000001,"end":38.033468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.096593750000004,"end":39.501593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.00784375,"end":41.813468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.14659375,"end":55.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.02221875,"end":65.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.52846875,"end":56.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.60721875,"end":67.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.98221875,"end":77.11596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.54721875,"end":72.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.85846875,"end":81.09846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.06034375,"end":127.72409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.67596875000001,"end":85.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.61846875,"end":130.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.03159375,"end":140.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.29221875000002,"end":140.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.93721875,"end":151.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.66971875000002,"end":159.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.42784375000002,"end":165.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.74346875,"end":166.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.55346875,"end":167.65034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.98784375000002,"end":170.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.61596875,"end":172.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.96596875,"end":173.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.18534375000002,"end":173.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.97846875000002,"end":181.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.73659375000003,"end":185.30159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.74034375000002,"end":195.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.96659375000002,"end":209.77034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.07909375000003,"end":205.26471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.06971875000002,"end":220.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.03034375000001,"end":220.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.35096875000002,"end":220.40159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.40159375000002,"end":221.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.02596875,"end":223.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.95409375000003,"end":222.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.24909375000001,"end":231.82596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.64471875,"end":231.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.92721875,"end":242.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.40659375,"end":265.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.18346875000003,"end":275.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.97096875,"end":282.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.77159375,"end":315.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.03659375,"end":316.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.16721875,"end":316.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.47096875,"end":316.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.48784375,"end":328.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.62096875000003,"end":333.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.71284375000005,"end":335.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.97846875000005,"end":349.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.96784375000004,"end":370.92659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.97721875,"end":392.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.03721875,"end":392.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.93159375000005,"end":392.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.96534375000005,"end":392.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.99909375000004,"end":393.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.18471875,"end":396.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.42034375000003,"end":414.54846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.61596875000004,"end":425.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.87284375,"end":418.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.44096875,"end":427.45784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.45784375000005,"end":427.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.14971875000003,"end":428.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.18346875000003,"end":428.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.97659375,"end":430.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.02284375000005,"end":430.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.86659375000005,"end":432.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.41471875,"end":440.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.96721875000003,"end":438.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.97471875,"end":445.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.34534375000004,"end":450.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.25596875,"end":461.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.03909375,"end":467.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.82284375,"end":481.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.95784375000005,"end":470.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.99534375,"end":471.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.27221875000004,"end":487.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.98846875000004,"end":490.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.50284375,"end":506.80409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.42846875000004,"end":508.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.74034375,"end":522.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.4597187500001,"end":527.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.9484687500001,"end":534.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.7153437500001,"end":547.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.9622187500001,"end":548.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.26596875,"end":548.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.29971875,"end":551.4384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.3328437499999,"end":564.6684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.3528437500001,"end":561.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.23846875,"end":571.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.35534375,"end":571.1147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.21596875,"end":572.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.04284375,"end":575.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.02971875,"end":585.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.2397187500001,"end":582.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.01971875,"end":592.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.01846875,"end":594.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.97596875,"end":601.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.84409375,"end":607.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.21909375,"end":605.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.0247187500001,"end":620.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.1597187500001,"end":608.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.48721875,"end":627.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.51534375,"end":627.0047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.20721875,"end":627.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.74721875,"end":627.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.91596875,"end":633.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.15221875,"end":630.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.55659375,"end":649.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.07284375,"end":651.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":652.4184687500001,"end":653.09346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.933,"end":7.693,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請部長請部長"},{"start":16.852,"end":41.513,"text":"部長好,在您今天的口頭報告還有印的PPT大概就有關於就業人數、勞動參與率、工資都做了說明但有一個獨特的地方我在口頭報告裡面沒有看到是針對我們目前台灣的工時到去年我們全年的總工時是多少時間?去年數字嗎?對,一年"},{"start":43.168,"end":67.061,"text":"那我直接跟部長講是2030個小時2016年我們的民進黨政府上台了以後蔡英文總統對勞工朋友提了六大保障然後其中一個最重要的是工時要減少因為長久以來台灣被稱為過勞之道你知道2016年的時候我們的總工時是多少時間嗎"},{"start":69.159,"end":73.066,"text":"來我直接跟部長講是20352016年的2035到2024年現在是2030部長您覺得我們現在台灣勞工的工時會不會過長"},{"start":82.093,"end":98.856,"text":"我覺得有檢討的空間你覺得有檢討的空間嗎因為我相信部長過去在社運界也好或是您上任任當委員的時候那任回勞工過勞要增加有關於國定假日的主張我相信讓很多勞動朋友都很有期待"},{"start":99.477,"end":127.55,"text":"那只不過說我們前兩天在內政部針對在內政委員會針對有關於國定假日要增加這樣子的議題的時候有很多委員也很關心說您上任了部長以後針對這樣子的政策目標你會不會繼續貫徹來加以執行還是說針對勞動部的立場會跟內政部一樣目前的國定假日有關於增加放假日的時間勞動部並沒有打算要做調整"},{"start":128.666,"end":149.591,"text":"我跟黃委員說明我想黃委員很清楚知道其實國定假日相關的法規目前的主管機關是內政部是是是所以我現在是提到內政部的立場但是 但是但是 但是勞動部在這上面也不是說這全部都是內政部的事情而已 是不是這樣所以從勞動部的角度第一個我們確實覺得是可以來通盤考慮各個"},{"start":152.052,"end":170.177,"text":"領域的工作者的狀況也包括工商情境包括政府的運作那尤其從勞工部的角度當然我們會特別在意勞工的需求所以我們認為在這個議題的國定假日調整雖然法規的主管機關在內政部但我們認為在國定假日的調整上面有"},{"start":171.65,"end":181.027,"text":"可以正向討論的空間有正向討論的空間嗎我這一步跟部長交換一下意見除了國定假日以外啊對很多社群家庭而言"},{"start":182.813,"end":209.629,"text":"家中如果有需要人照顧的話放假去照顧家裡的人是一個非常重要的事情所以我們之前推了家庭照顧假家庭照顧假現在一年有幾天部長知道嗎七天七天嘛這七天是不是併入市價計算對所以有很多民間團體甚至有很多婦女的團體出來大聲疾呼認為家庭照顧假七天併入市價計算是看得到吃不到嘛"},{"start":211.424,"end":223.121,"text":"那在整個政策的立場上面把家庭照護假我們把它列為有薪假這樣子的一個政策方向部長您贊不贊成我先跟委員說明第一個事情是"},{"start":225.062,"end":241.463,"text":"其實在我上任以後其實我們把照顧不離職視為非常重要的政策目標這個我理解那這裡面照顧不離職裡面包括顧小的部分包括顧老的部分所以我們其實也在思考相關的制度上面的調整"},{"start":242.504,"end":265.378,"text":"那家庭照顧價調整是路徑之一是是路徑之一所以我們現在是在總體思考照顧不離職的這個方向上因為很多的包括很多的婦女團體性別團體也大概跟我們說他們很希望未來是透過更彈性的包括也許放假的制度留庭的制度來去緩解他們可能現在必須要在"},{"start":267.159,"end":286.008,"text":"這個職場跟家庭照顧必須二選一的這個狀況那我們會從整體的照顧不離之狀況提出一套做法那我們希望能夠更彈性我提一個政策的方向啦給部長做思考剛剛您提到婦女團體嘛那婦女薪資基金會的董事長曾經說過"},{"start":287.749,"end":315.708,"text":"勞工一年的試駕14天7天的家庭照顧假併入在裡面所以對勞工來講看得到但是用不到的家庭照顧假剛剛我所援引的是這樣子的主張所以對於台灣民眾黨而言我們把家庭照顧假把它列為是有薪假這個是我們希望推動的整個立法的方向從勞動部的立場來講你們只是目前為止最起碼把它考慮成入境之一"},{"start":316.728,"end":333.229,"text":"這個是討論的路徑之一但是確實這裡面要考慮是財政上面的狀況因為這個所謂有薪其實可能是要政府付錢那這裡面包括現在財化法的這樣修訂的方法讓中央政府其實可以運用的財政空間"},{"start":334.775,"end":357.736,"text":"又再減小了如果按照目前的財化法假如要上路的話那會讓中央政府的財政空間又再減小所以我的意思是說這是路徑之一那財政上面當然是必須考慮的其中一點剛剛您提到有關於財政上面的問題就回到了我上次最後一次質詢的時候我請教您的事情因為"},{"start":358.797,"end":382.858,"text":"之前就業安定基金亂化的狀況整個社會都很憤怒嘛審計部一開始的調查2022年到2024年的時候有5174萬不符合用途後來在我們的要求之下他擴大調查過去這五年有7224萬遭到濫用那上一次我在質詢您的時候我說我們的立場很清楚"},{"start":383.639,"end":410.254,"text":"所有費不到農用的錢全部都要追回來那您說這不會是空洞的承諾會有具體的作為嗎那目前為止勞動部具體的作為是什麼跟黃磊說明當然審計部的報告他其實審計部的相關的調查包括他們其實也好幾波的來函要我們說明跟確認跟釐清那我們目前都按照審計部要求的進度在進行"},{"start":410.934,"end":424.822,"text":"那但是這個最後的狀況該怎麼處理其實就其實政府的這個審計制度是有一套法規的那這個最後判定的權限其實是在審計部你們給審計部的回函是密件嗎不是那不是密件的話會不會可以提供這個可能可以問一下審計部吧"},{"start":433.544,"end":453.518,"text":"對阿 因為你們如果給審計部的回函如果不是理見的話是不是請你們回函我先讓黃委員知道就是說第一個我們的回函最後審計部怎麼判定我們當然就會尊重審計部的自決我直接跟部長說明阿為什麼我會希望看到你們的回函因為你們的回函其實代表了勞動部的立場嘛是"},{"start":454.238,"end":468.853,"text":"那從勞動部的立場是錢到底要追回來還是幫過去所犯的錯誤再問過是非我覺得從你們的迴韓白紙黑字看了會最清楚我要跟華人說明是說最後判定該怎麼處理的我們會尊重審計部剛剛你已經說明過了我們會尊重審計部"},{"start":471.536,"end":488.107,"text":"那我們在我們的回覆裡面把確實我們認為有哪些部分有檢討的空間哪些部分可以做得更好我們在裡面也做出說明我為什麼會希望看到勞動部回審計部的回函道理非常的簡單就如同我剛剛說的勞動部回審計部的立場"},{"start":490.569,"end":508.754,"text":"到底是每一分每一毫被浪費到而且要追回來還是幫過去所犯的錯誤再問過是非其實看迴韓是最清楚啦我這樣直接跟部長說好了齁如果這個不是密件的話那是不是請會後勤勞動部來提供應該是可以吧"},{"start":509.933,"end":521.62,"text":"可以嗎 好那個主席也站起來了我最後只是請教一個問題因為我之前追的事情我希望都能夠有一些follow up之前我也質疑過許明春這個沙龍照"},{"start":523.613,"end":550.229,"text":"為了拍他的馬屁 花納稅人的錢 殺錢不手軟那個時候我有請教你說那這種粗製濫造的驗收報告 勞動部檢討完了嗎那許民村的沙龍照著納稅人買單 追回來了嗎那我有請您去問一下許民村這個錢到底要不要吐出來那你說你會去問許部長那你問許部長以後他的答覆是什麼我還是跟這個歡迎說明"},{"start":552.403,"end":578.249,"text":"在關於勞動救援基金的使用的檢討其實這段時間我們都沒有停止包括在1月的時候我們也提出了一個勞動救援基金的但是我現在是正確的你自己對我做的承諾再進一步follow up問我相信應該是很公平我覺得這部分我們來看審計部最後的結果你那時候答覆我的時候說你會去問許民村那我現在的問題很具體你也會問許民村他的回應是什麼"},{"start":578.669,"end":601.251,"text":"我確實現在還沒有問許明春所以你上次答應我的事情到目前為止沒有做到嗎在這個案子上我沒有去問許明春部長但我們在這個案子上面最後會怎麼處理我們會來看審計部的報告我最後只跟部長交換一個看法啦如果你當初覺得我請你去問許明春是不適當的話其實你可以直接這樣回覆"},{"start":602.052,"end":620.72,"text":"但是你答應了以後又沒有做到這恐怕是另外一回事我現在確實還沒有去問許明春部長所以你不是要去問許明春嗎我們是依循跟審計部審計部來來做跟對我們做的調查包括相關的審計工作我們依循這個相關的工作這個你剛剛都說明過了嘛所以我問問題其實"},{"start":622.12,"end":649.361,"text":"喜歡具體啦因為這種空泛的回答問題對事情的解決沒有幫助我基本上都希望用制度的方法來處理過去的問題我最後只講一句話用制度來處理我並不反對可是你在委員會所做的承諾沒有錯那恐怕是另外一個層次的問題但我現在比較希望用制度的方式來處理問題所以你改變你的心意沒有要問許銘春了是嗎目前沒有問OK好謝謝"},{"start":652.49,"end":652.51,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}