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敬請各位委員多多的指教"},{"start":2247.421,"end":2266.108,"text":"為了因應波動加劇的國際政經環境以及日益激烈的國際金融競爭未來金管會的工作重點將朝向建立安全與發展並進的新金融市場邁進將以金融安全與金融發展與創新兩大基礎"},{"start":2268.389,"end":2288.146,"text":"並從強化資本韌性、落實風險監理、健全市場行為與公司治理、落實普惠金融與消費權益保護、促進金融市場發展、加速金融與科技創新、強化永續金融等六大核心面向推動各項措施以下向各位做簡要的報告"},{"start":2289.653,"end":2306.447,"text":"一、強化資本韌性與風險建立未來將開放本國銀行得申請採用信用內部平等法 IRB 祭提資本首批的申請預計在113年6月前二、為了協助保險業厚實資本結構目前已經開放的保險業得透過國外籌資事業發債我們開放的保險業得透過設立特定目的的國外籌資事業發債以厚實資本三、"},{"start":2320.39,"end":2332.541,"text":"我們將採取有效且適合本國特性的調試過渡措施協助保險業穩健實施會計新制IFR-17與新一代清償能力制度持續強化資本結構與經營體質首先就IFR-17部分"},{"start":2337.205,"end":2350.194,"text":"為了順利接軌國際快遞準則我們強化保險業的財報品質並增強資產負債管理能力我們將採取有效且適合我國市場特性的調適措施協助保險業能夠順利在115年接軌國際財務報告準則F-17"},{"start":2354.502,"end":2376.432,"text":"二、為持續強化保險業資本結構與清償能力金管會以參著國際保險監理官協會IIS制定的保險資本標準ICS2.0嚴定新一代清償能力制度也是預計在115年實施為了實施本制度金管會已於112年、113年陸續發布三階段的"},{"start":2380.816,"end":2391.027,"text":"在地以及過渡化措施不實穩健提升保險業資本結構另外訂定差異化管理措施及獎勵措施以鼓勵保險業競速完成接軌目標"},{"start":2392.438,"end":2410.443,"text":"未來就上開接軌的措施除將定期依實際執行情形進行制度檢討外亦將持續關注國際制度的改變以及配合調整修正如整體金融情勢於國際接軌後發生重大顯著變化亦將適時進行相關制度的檢討協助業者循序漸進順利適用國際兩制度"},{"start":2416.923,"end":2445.449,"text":"再來我們將持續強化資安風險管理能力提升金融業資安標準與防護能力第二部分我們要健全市場行為與公司治理我們要持續研修金融控控公司法及銀行法強化公司治理目前金管會已經將金控公司法及銀行法的修法草案送進行政院審查以完備對負責人就責制度及公司治理"},{"start":2446.149,"end":2473.573,"text":"再來,我們將持續推動銀行責任地圖制度三、我們要強化洗錢房子與市場交易智系分階段納管虛擬資產平台與交易業務並評估未來研擬虛擬資產專法的可行性今晚會於112年9月26日發布有關的指導原則今晚會也以委託有一個委外研究"},{"start":2474.741,"end":2480.591,"text":"未來會針對這個專法部分提出研究報告我們續行是評估是否要這個訂定虛擬資產專法"},{"start":2483.84,"end":2507.957,"text":"再來因應近期的ETF熱銷的情況我們提出一些管理措施然後加強消費者的訊息保護再來有關租賃公司的爭議處理協助完善先買後付的銷保機制金管會已經責成交易所及櫃買中心督導據市場領導立位之上市櫃租賃公司訂定內部控制程序並由租賃公衛對外"},{"start":2510.178,"end":2520.643,"text":"針對消保議題納入自律規範另外針對社會關注的BMPL部分我們也將協助租賃公會完成自律規範持續的"},{"start":2524.592,"end":2541.944,"text":"進行宣導以及執行第三部分我們落實普惠金融與消保權益第一個我們要強化普惠金融的覆蓋率以及鼓勵金融業落實企業社會責任金管會將持續協同金融業者針對不同年齡、族群"},{"start":2542.584,"end":2563.915,"text":"特別是針對年輕及中高齡族群提出符合其需求之金融服務對策另將設計鼓勵機制促使金融業將市場開放及發展成長的結果與成果與利潤回饋於基層員工照顧擴大普惠金融與社區服務以加大普惠金融的覆蓋範圍善盡企業社會責任"},{"start":2566.755,"end":2587.795,"text":"二、我們將研擬高齡金融行動措施以及提升高齡金融消費權益再來我們一個重點是積極配合行政院推動打詐專法之立法目前行政院已於113年5月9日通過《詐欺犯罪危害防治條例草案等打詐新釋法》以及送大院審議"},{"start":2589.147,"end":2614.556,"text":"另外的話在這部法律裡面我們將規範的主體從金融機構還加上了提供虛擬資產服務的事業或人員那管理的標的也加入了虛擬資產的帳號推動的重點包括建立照會同業機制、通報警察機制、監警聯防機制及被害人招詐匯出款項之返還免除金融機構保密義務及避風港條款及罰則等"},{"start":2618.317,"end":2629.768,"text":"再來金管會將持續的強化防詐與增進金融安全交易金管會目前已經透過與金融業及相關部會、機構通力合作執行各項反詐措施包括"},{"start":2631.199,"end":2647.194,"text":"與內政部合作運用科技防詐以及與財經公司建立約定轉帳揮名單通報平台另外我們加強反詐宣傳教育督導金融機構落實臨櫃關懷112年我們金融機構攔截的件數達到一萬一千餘件攔阻的金額將近76億元兩年已經攔阻了近百億的詐騙金額"},{"start":2657.779,"end":2680.726,"text":"然後我們也跟警政署建立金融資料聯防通報電子化平台以及推動移設詐欺境內外金融帳戶預警制度與網路平台業者溝通加強審查確認Meta可於113年6月底前配合完成系統調整落實投資廣告實名制另外我們也修訂了證券"},{"start":2683.286,"end":2710.992,"text":"投信投顧法禁止非法有價證券投資廣告樣態並規範英才實名制同時要求網路平台業者審查廣告應負起責任我們也持續召開金融打擊詐欺高峰會等未來將持續強化金融防詐的深度與廣度我們也更進一步完備投資人保護機制持續推動接避者保護措施以及落實金融知識普及工作然後"},{"start":2711.952,"end":2737.297,"text":"再來我們要協助司法院嚴定保險契約強制執行參考原則並研議修訂保險法今晚會將協助執行機關訂定保險契約強制執行參考原則未來也將嚴定保險法制修正將明訂健康保險等保障型保險契約不以強制執行並參考國外法制納入受益人介入權制度"},{"start":2739.153,"end":2746.341,"text":"四、促進金融市場發展未來金管會將研議設置金融市場發展與創新單位"},{"start":2749.062,"end":2764.436,"text":"為了滿足金融科技創新、市場發展、永續金融、市場新機會以及法規鬆綁等需求今晚會正研議在首屬架構下增設專責單位強化金融科技發展、促進創新實驗與業務事辦推動永續金融並適度鬆綁法規、開創金融發展新契機"},{"start":2771.206,"end":2795.038,"text":"第二我們要推動常態化金融法規鬆綁機制辦理法規檢視與評估未來會因應金融市場的發展所需與提升我國國際金融競爭力針對各項金融監理法令將推動常態化的檢討機制我們會邀請金融業者及領域學者專家參與法規檢討與檢視以收集各方對金融監理法規鬆綁的建議"},{"start":2797.319,"end":2821.384,"text":"以便充分反映市場變化讓這個常態性的法規鬆綁機制能充分發揮市場溫度計效果使監理法令與時俱進三、我們配合推動臺灣成為亞洲資產管理中心政策增進金融市場發展契機為推動臺灣成為亞洲資產管理中心政策之規劃與執行將結合各相關單位定定我國資產管理中心發展策略與目標"},{"start":2822.304,"end":2847.091,"text":"金管會將競速盤點現行法規及實務障礙並嚴定法規調整推動法規鬆綁協調各方資源發展我國具競爭力之資產管理金融商品藉由亞洲資產管理中心的規劃以推動進一步增進我國金融市場之發展為配合上述政策金管會將持續推動開放高資產客戶財富管理業務並培育跨領域金融人才"},{"start":2849.72,"end":2874.258,"text":"4.營造有力環境引導金融業資金投入本國中小企業、六大核心戰略產業、公共投資、長照事業等投融資項目今晚會目前將持續推動本國銀行加強中小企業銀行放款方案第19期以及鼓勵保險業辦理六大核心戰略產業、公共投資、長照事業及永續發展債券投資方案全力協助國內資金投入國家各項建設"},{"start":2876.004,"end":2899.746,"text":"五、我們研修投信投股推動基金架構的不動產信託REIT再來我們會研議開放主動型的多資產ETF以及提升證券商受信業務的營運範疇放寬證券商以信託方式經營財富管理業務之門檻五、加速金融科技創新"},{"start":2900.868,"end":2915.41,"text":"我們持續推動金融科技法規調適平台二、我們鼓勵金融業運用AI智慧我們嚴定金融業運用AI指引草案將於113年6月底前公佈三、擴大金融科技業務事辦範圍"},{"start":2917.909,"end":2936.72,"text":"為增加金融科技創新個案、促進數位轉型提升金融市場整體發展效益金管會將研議鬆綁三項金融業務創新事辦規定擴大事辦範圍至非法律所禁止屬金管會職權事項之可行性以擴大事辦的範圍四、促進跨市場"},{"start":2941.317,"end":2964.609,"text":"四、促進跨市場資訊共享五、研修金融監理沙盒條例金管會將研議修正金融科技發展與創新實驗條例之可行性強化沙盒落地機制爭取國外團隊來台實驗以及鼓勵金融業與科技業共同合作六、推動開放銀行第三階段七、推動金融身份辨識、驗證轉接中心建置"},{"start":2968.368,"end":2978.304,"text":"跨體系的金融身份辨識驗證轉接中心串聯現行各體系金融身份驗證資訊提升身份驗證的互通性發展金融生態圈"},{"start":2981.315,"end":2989.118,"text":"6.強化永續金融我們將制定永續金融發展願景以成為亞洲永續金融發展點範為目標與金融業合作瞭解國際永續趨勢及倡議並積極參與國際評比項目、爭取佳績並鼓勵金融業輸出永續金融專業知識與資金透過永續方案之連帶、承銷、保險、提供服務等提升永續影響力實踐永續發展目標"},{"start":3008.459,"end":3031.895,"text":"二、發布永續轉型金融行動方案綠社持續引導金融業資金投入綠社及永續發展領域金管會將了解利害關係人推動永續淨零過程之挑戰及待協助之處研擬永續轉型金融方案並預計於第三季發布三、持續推動金融業檢探目標設定及策略規劃指引"},{"start":3033.456,"end":3043.341,"text":"1.精進金融業氣候實體風險資訊整合平台金管會已經請廉政中心建置金融業氣候實體風險資訊整合平台目前已經上線將1."},{"start":3043.341,"end":3044.401,"text":"業者使用需求持續精進5."},{"start":3044.401,"end":3045.081,"text":"持續精進綠色證券資訊平台"},{"start":3055.946,"end":3076.177,"text":"6推動永續發展債券金管會將持續推動綠色社會級永續債券之發行讓金融業可透過適當的金融工具投資公共建設再來金管會建立永續債之櫃台買賣制度推動中小型上市櫃企業發行永續可轉換公司債"},{"start":3079.813,"end":3105.109,"text":"七、金檢公開發行公司年報揭露事項我們也要精進永續經濟活動指引參考並擴大適用範圍九、發布金融機構房票率參考指引這個指引將提供金融機構對外說明機構本身或其提供之金融商品服務為綠色或永續之表達方式以名符其實這個預計在113年6月底發布金融機構房票率參考指引"},{"start":3111.485,"end":3128.344,"text":"最後金融市場為國家發展與民生經濟共榮共存關係密切金管會個人主委為我國金融市場發展奠定厚實根基本人甚感欽佩未來除延續推動各項措施外"},{"start":3129.085,"end":3143.762,"text":"亦將虛心的傾聽外界的建議關注國際的趨勢建立安全與發展並進的新金融市場為目標朝著穩健發展與開放創新的方向與所有的同仁共同努力落實推動各項金融政策"},{"start":3144.763,"end":3162.488,"text":"為達成上述目標金管會將在既有的穩健基礎下以強化資本韌性與風險監理健全市場行為與公司治理落實普惠金融與消費權益保護促進金融市場發展加速金融與科技創新強化永續金融等六大面向"},{"start":3163.548,"end":3176.371,"text":"營造安全、公平、普惠、值得信賴的金融環境以上報告敬請各位委員支持、指教並祝各位委員身體健康、萬事如意謝謝 謝謝大家好 謝謝彭金隆、彭主委"},{"start":3178.717,"end":3192.828,"text":"彭主任因為你第一次來所以就是讓你講多一點財委會一般都是簡單然後直接就進入狀況因為第一次也是歡迎你介紹現場林德福林委員顏寬恆、顏委員"},{"start":3200.643,"end":3210.679,"text":"現在開始詢答每一位委員就是8加2列席是5加1上午10點截止發言登記請第一位林德福林委員質詢"},{"start":3224.512,"end":3234.836,"text":"謝謝謝謝主席是不是這個特別來邀請我們新任的金管會主委彭金隆請彭主委"},{"start":3236.087,"end":3257.809,"text":"彭主委啊你叫彭金隆我們還有中央銀行的總裁叫楊金隆這兩條龍啊今年是龍年好好的發揮如何去提升我們的經濟如何監管我們的金融如何穩定我們的匯率我想啊你們的責任非常重大好好的發揮來湖國立民怎麼樣"},{"start":3260.48,"end":3270.534,"text":"這是我們的責任,我們會努力來達成,謝謝我希望兩條龍能夠好好的發揮,來湖國立民那個彭主委,我想這個"},{"start":3273.753,"end":3295.624,"text":"3月的時候我們國內掀起ETF的熱潮金管會緊盯這些網紅誇大不實的行銷投信工會他們訂出自律的規範要求網紅行銷要有良民證甚至於有相關金融的證照"},{"start":3296.744,"end":3312.982,"text":"那我請問彭主委你對這方面尤其這樣的一個規範到底有沒有強制力可不可以開罰你來表達你的看法跟意見好 謝謝委員的關注這個議題因為所有的金融商品"},{"start":3313.823,"end":3341.281,"text":"他都有他一定的複雜度那這個內容呢都有他一定的風險在所以對於這個消費者的保護這個金管會一定是權利那有關剛剛提到了這個網紅跟比如投信投顧業者這主要是投信投顧工會他們擬了一個所謂的行為規範去規範說這個網紅過去的一些紀錄以及他那你規範你總是要有對不對你要有華澤"},{"start":3343.422,"end":3367.414,"text":"那金管會你們認為說未來走的方向你總不能說讓這些網紅他為了行銷但是他在這方面沒有專業甚至於誇大造成很多人一窩蜂的造成後面有後遺症有關這個罰則細節我可不可以請我們政企局的張局長來跟您做更詳細的說明好可以請張局長簡單熱要"},{"start":3371.263,"end":3386.76,"text":"剛剛的網紅規範是公會他問了業者之後所達成的共識報到局裡面來那當然報到局裡面那你們的未來要做要如何做因為將來他跟業者跟網紅簽約的時候他就要注意到他們有沒有"},{"start":3387.581,"end":3410.716,"text":"過往有詐騙的紀錄等等這些基本問題他到底有沒有這些金融證照啊到底甚至要不要良民證啊對不對要是沒有的話對不對然後他在那裡吹噓在那裡這個造成一窩蜂大家一窩蜂的牆後面衍生的後遺症我認為站在金管會的立場你們應該要有態度啊"},{"start":3412.68,"end":3436.492,"text":"我們的態度基本上支持工會他現在對智力之間他的想法他只有智力而已沒有後續的處罰因為工會會有處罰規範如果他們違反規範的時候我是希望軍管會在這方面你們著重要去加強管理而且一定要訂出規範才不會很多人一口風的來吵好不好那個彭主任你的看法呢"},{"start":3438.606,"end":3461.561,"text":"剛才張議長也說其實我們在這個治理規範其實是有他的罰則就是他們內部是有這個罰則那我想說這個是今晚會責無旁貸我們會多加督導我是認為你們要去研議看到底要怎麼去要求規範讓他能夠上軌道不是讓他在那裡網紅吹噓以後一窩蜂大家搶到最後造成很多後遺症"},{"start":3462.403,"end":3469.666,"text":"好不好是那個主委啊是台股上個禮拜創歷史的新高紀錄中場上漲了157.05點21304.26外界也關注520當天的行情啊那媒體報導就是這個"},{"start":3485.394,"end":3508.133,"text":"總統賴清德11點花表演說的時候提到兩岸互不隸屬這一句話一出整個台股歡黑猶如坐坐大怒神一路重挫超過150點雖然最後有一點收盤小帳但是又傳出政府出面來護盤到底有沒有護盤主委有沒有護盤"},{"start":3512.648,"end":3539.085,"text":"就是有關當天的這個股票的漲跌當然是有漲有跌我們也都有密切關注不過看起來這兩天的股市是相對穩定的不是這兩天啦當天你們到底有沒有護盤嘛這個可能不是我們金管會的因為齁請問主委對於台股大盤這樣的反應你認為是不是太過脆弱或者是過於敏感對於台股的健全發展你認為政府護盤的"},{"start":3541.206,"end":3547.131,"text":"金管會是一個證券市場的主管機關我們面對股市的漲跌其實我們態度主要是制度的健全對這個漲跌我們尊重市場你對台股未來表達"},{"start":3562.143,"end":3575.277,"text":"這個你未來的一個期待如何來期待呢就站在金管會的立場認為其實影響股市短期當然是消息面但中長期還是回歸基本面我們對台灣的基本面很有信心關主委今年"},{"start":3579.139,"end":3602.021,"text":"這個過年的時候你投書聯合報內容預言那個期書推背圖的這個稱言那對照受選業當前面臨的處境來表示其中具有極端的這個極高的巧合雖然推背圖沒有標示時間"},{"start":3603.402,"end":3623.191,"text":"必須質詢軌跡但是主委你說對照這個證言的內容來觀察保險市場以及接軌國際制度的諸多現況確實也有幾分的道理那本席要請教主委推背圖第24項"},{"start":3627.933,"end":3643.282,"text":"這個趁雨啊這個美人自熙來那朝中日漸安長工在地為而不為的這個內容那來對照目前保險市場的狀況已經走到哪裡你的看法勒"},{"start":3645.339,"end":3669.272,"text":"謝謝委員還有看我那個短文我想那是以前在彭教授的時候寫的文章我想這個其實現在來看的話就陳主委員這個就是因為這篇文章最主要講的一個概念就是說其實它會有一個問題但是適緩則遠我們給予一些很能夠吻合在地化的過渡措施應該是可以這個應該是安度這樣的一個問題"},{"start":3670.854,"end":3683.789,"text":"主委因為昏老已久保險市場接軌國際制度剛上任的主委的你是不是導向朝中日建安的關鍵是不是這樣子"},{"start":3685.811,"end":3705.348,"text":"我想穩定金融市場絕對是監理官這個最重要的工作我想這個我們會持續來推動這件事情讓我們的金融市場安定如果是的話那趁雨後半段是不是可解讀金管會將會用最有利於國內保險市場的規範盡快讓業者獲利回歸正軌"},{"start":3707.91,"end":3733.305,"text":"是不是這樣子應該是臺灣的市場有它的獨特性國際的制度它有它的一般性我們必須兼顧到我們自己的獨特性跟國際上的一般性那要是如果不是的話那麼是不是還有其他影響保險市場的天機呢卻有不可洩露的存在有沒有未來其實所有金融市場都面對著國內外政經情勢的波動其實我們會密切關注"},{"start":3735.669,"end":3749.176,"text":"推背圖固然玄奇但是回到現實面來看許多金融業公會的代表在和你會面後對媒體表示業者對你上任"},{"start":3750.437,"end":3776.046,"text":"懷抱著相當大的一個期待據瞭解國內授權業面臨的最大難題就是2026年即將上路的ICS、IFRS時期的新制因為業者面臨極大的爭執壓力那請問主委媒體報導對於授權業目前的難題你和金管會黃天牧前主委在ICS問題上的態度"},{"start":3779.086,"end":3804.295,"text":"這個有所不同那請問媒體報導到底是空穴來風還是言之鑿鑿其實我覺得跟黃主委的其實沒有太大的不同只是說黃主委負責撥話我負責執行其實制度的實施是來解決問題不是來製造問題所以我們新的制度是要解決我們未來的問題我們一定會持續穩健的讓這個制度能夠讓我們的保險業者能夠安心的來執行"},{"start":3805.655,"end":3829.283,"text":"如果接軌國際制度的決策態度真的不同那你認為要採取更嚴謹的規範還是更彈性的寬鬆的一個規範呢?跟委員報告我們剛才講過臺灣的保險市場有非常獨特的獨特性我們必須要很誠懇的面對這樣一個問題所以我們一定會朝這個方向從穩健務實的方式去解決這個問題"},{"start":3830.623,"end":3857.51,"text":"主委你被視為這個整個綠營執政以來對金融業最友善的一個主委過去你曾居中來解決企業的難題被稱為點子王所以外界解讀你樂於助人的個性在監理上恐將成為挑戰那保險業是否會繼續接軌ICS將成為你擔任主委首要的一個難題"},{"start":3859.411,"end":3876.2,"text":"請問主委外界對你的看法你認為正不正確我想不同的位置所擔負的責任不同我們會扮演好我金管會主委的角色還是你認為這個外界對你的看法還是有不小的落差當然這個由我自己來回答好了"},{"start":3879.64,"end":3903.751,"text":"保險業接軌ICS這是前任主委提出的監理措施目的是讓保險公司的財務更加健全大多數保險公司是因為股東必須掏出用於增資的金額高達數千億所以說壓力很大那我請問主委你認為接軌國際制度是不是絕對必要做的事"},{"start":3904.491,"end":3923.141,"text":"我剛才講說一個制度是主要是來解決我們的問題因為臺灣的保險市場有它自己獨特的問題當然一個制度很多值得參考我們一定要來做但是我們在地化的調適還是非常重要好 如果是的話那你認為給業者15年的緩衝期增資數千億業者到底做得到"},{"start":3924.74,"end":3948.199,"text":"做得到嗎?你認為可不可以?以我們現在目前試算的結果應該是可以做得到要是做不到的話那這個如果不是必要做的事那請問接軌國際還有其他的這個對不對其他的可以做的事嗎?是 謝謝那個制度的優化沒有止盡我們會隨時的努力這樣喔?謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝"},{"start":3955.563,"end":3977.358,"text":"下一質詢請吳秉瑞吳委員主席麻煩請金管會彭主委請彭主委謝委員彭主委早 早 早剛剛看到您的報告"},{"start":3978.547,"end":4001.499,"text":"那基本上是延續之前金管會的做法但是有一部分想要做更積極的事情那現在就各個方面先跟你請教就是說因為臺灣在中國的曝險比例雖然下降但是總金額事實上仍然居高不下你知道現在曝險有多少嗎?對中國"},{"start":4003.819,"end":4019.072,"text":"這個數字我可不可以很抱歉那個我沒很清楚掌握是不是可以請我們銀行局稍微準備一下再跟委員報告也不是只有銀行局這個問題我一直在問所以這個早都有了數字9529億我們看到銀行這邊是9529億那保險呢1200多億"},{"start":4024.298,"end":4039.154,"text":"一千兩百餘億所以要一兆多嘛至少但是還不包括影子銀行等等這些的機構所以因為那個也沒有是金管會監管的部分所以你也無法統計也就是說臺灣對中國跟對香港的曝險金額仍然非常的龐大"},{"start":4045.066,"end":4070.253,"text":"那你也知道中國現在經濟狀況非常的糟糕他甚至有可能是有硬著陸危風險包括他現在房地產嚴重折價大都會上海折價50%房子還賣不出去這麼嚴重的問題然後他的金融機構舉新還舊不然的話他都已經很多債券都破產在國際之間的性貧都一直下調"},{"start":4072.093,"end":4098.883,"text":"那如果中國發生系統性的風險臺灣這些曝險本身也沒有完整的防火牆機構會不會使得這些損失會延燒回來臺灣造成臺灣的金融危機是我想這個問題金管會過去一向很關注我想有些具體措施我們可不可以請我們銀行局或是其他的保安局跟委員進行說明請銀行局說一下"},{"start":4102.802,"end":4120.932,"text":"報告委員其實就是針對中國的曝險我們一直是長期的關注的那其實只要是海外曝險的話首先第一個我們對中國的曝險我們已經要求提那個準備就是放款的準備其實是比其他海外地區都還要高"},{"start":4121.352,"end":4127.374,"text":"他要提到1.5倍所以這個部分的話某種程度上面其實已經就是為了預防這個風險那從質方面的話其實不管是所有海外的曝險在總行機構裡面他們都要有一個專責的單位來看海外的曝險那特別是針對中國的部分的話隨時我們都有關注他是哪一些的產業是比較風險比較高的"},{"start":4150.48,"end":4173.778,"text":"這個部分的話存款保險那個存保中央存保這邊也有幫我們一起注意所以如果有發現有任何比較大的風險事件的時候我們都會專請金融機構來注意好 謝謝其實主委我今天不是要問局長這些意見我是要提醒你這個是我在財務會13年來一直在關注的議題而且這個議題在我來看沒有減輕"},{"start":4179.424,"end":4203.49,"text":"還在繼續在嚴重發生中以前可以不要忽略香港不要中國跟香港分際現在香港已經被內化成中國一個城市即將美國對香港的態度都會轉變在這樣的狀況之下香港跟中國的互選如果加在一起金額遠比你今天統計的要大得多了台灣對香港過去是給予特殊的地位"},{"start":4205.971,"end":4220.152,"text":"現在有風險說美元可能在美國的參眾兩院的檢討之下有可能被踢出這個港元有可能被踢出美元的換算機制有這樣的風險存在萬一發生的時候中國的系統性風險香港的港元的這些危機"},{"start":4221.567,"end":4238.436,"text":"我們有沒有準備一套面對這個問題必須因應的方法這是你今天報告裡面所沒有的所以我要提醒你要注意這個事情我希望你們不要忽略這一點不要說預測到有可能前方"},{"start":4240.545,"end":4254.114,"text":"會有熱帶性氣血就是颱風它也有可能會來但是你都把它適合不見我就埋頭在國內的環境不可以這個樣子謝謝委員提醒謝謝這是一個第二個我還要再提醒"},{"start":4255.424,"end":4270.53,"text":"金融機構你所監理的對象他們無論是在經濟上、財政上、法律知識上、人力上都遠高於消費者兩者之間基本上不是平等的"},{"start":4271.829,"end":4287.097,"text":"所以我們必須要支持消費者要輔助消費者提高消費者法律能力各方面的能力所以才能夠讓他跟財團之間稍微平衡不可能完全平衡"},{"start":4288.959,"end":4312.18,"text":"簽訂的都是定期化契約然後用了很多的法律陷阱你剛剛提到的先購後付先享受後付款等等這些就是這樣子的類型那你所監理的對象要注意要扶弱易強第二個要保護消費者"},{"start":4313.663,"end":4336.517,"text":"那對於這些金融機構用那麼大的人力請了這麼多人在變相一直在想說要用什麼方法真正最賺錢的是制定制度的人我在這邊這麼久的經驗我跟你講以前在賣那個什麼高比例的那個什麼那個什麼TRF就是錢都被制度的設計者賺走"},{"start":4339.834,"end":4368.442,"text":"爛攤子全部都留給我們大家讓我們這邊還得必須要想辦法幫他解決這個要念之再知因為這個不是說你現在沒有就代表未來不會產生這些人啊他會繼續華爾街智囊這樣的概念他會繼續去製造新的遊戲規則然後讓大家都在他的遊戲規則裡面玩讓他可以獲取暴利這一點我認為未來一定還會再發生從早年的"},{"start":4369.588,"end":4398.163,"text":"金融卡借錢免還借錢merit現金卡等等一路來我們已經走過多少的這個金融風暴有大有小那就是因為有這些高智商的人他在設計遊戲規則給一般人一般人沒有那麼高的視野也沒有那麼長眼光也沒有這樣的知識、經濟能力所以就在人家的遊戲制度裡面玩我再舉例子"},{"start":4399.558,"end":4423.101,"text":"現在這個虛擬貨幣幾乎全世界都知道啊洗錢主要的管道就是虛擬貨幣啊那虛擬貨幣的控制者很大一部分的比例是中國啊中國一下子承認他合法他就滿天仗一下子說這個是洗錢的工具打擊他他就崩盤這樣來來回回已經幾次了"},{"start":4424.666,"end":4451.072,"text":"這種可被國家操控性的虛擬資產、虛擬貨幣今天大家說因為已經太大了所以我們必須承認它的存在所以行政院也指定貴單位作為主管機關可是我們還在人家的遊戲規則下面在玩連本身整個國家的制度都在這個遊戲規則底下玩玩得過人家嗎"},{"start":4453.052,"end":4462.835,"text":"不會被人家這樣子吸乾媽進嗎這個都是必須要思考這個幾項問題看看你有什麼樣的看法"},{"start":4464.282,"end":4483.142,"text":"這個謝謝委員提醒包括剛才那個對大陸跟香港的這個負險的總和管制還有就是我們提到那個消費者資訊跟知識不對稱對他需要保護的部分我覺得還有虛擬資產的部分我覺得有關那個消費者保護一向就是我們最重要的一個工作"},{"start":4483.883,"end":4509.118,"text":"然後再來就是有關虛擬資產跟虛擬交易的部分現在整個的監管我們正在做很多面向的這個管理因為現在我們被指定為這個主政的單位所以我們在很多從反洗錢開始接下來在做剛剛也有跟委員報告那個專法的嚴厲我們已經成立專案在做這件事情我們希望務必做到剛剛講很多的問題能夠做有效的解決"},{"start":4510.679,"end":4530.937,"text":"那這個是我在這邊跟你第一次對話也是對你的期待啦我希望當然資本市場能夠讓人家有靈活做生意的機會那個是要去發展但是同時不要忘記你是金融監督管理喔你負責這個在走鋼索要balance"},{"start":4532.431,"end":4546.463,"text":"我們現在說的,台語叫做電梯行背,事實上是在走鋼索,所以要戰戰兢兢,稍微不平衡都會出問題,很多事情發生也不在我們"},{"start":4547.987,"end":4568.875,"text":"法院突然決定說保險公司做的人身保險這個產值可以當作執行的標的馬上這樣案件排山倒海就立刻來了但是貴單位是主管單位我認為你們反應的態度是正確的速度上面可以加強因為已經有太多這樣子的陳情案件來到服務處"},{"start":4570.155,"end":4590.687,"text":"我們民意代表的服務處也會為了這些社會的個案疲於奔命當然我們大家都是一起努力要解決社會的問題那這樣的事情未來還會層出不窮我希望將來還有機會再跟你再繼續接觸總是我們今天是第一次要高度要拉高希望你帶著正確的心態能夠為我們臺灣能夠福國利民謝謝你感謝委員"},{"start":4602.162,"end":4623.107,"text":"接下來請嚴寬恆嚴委員介紹現場賴世保賴委員主席各位列席官員大家早主席我想請我們金管會彭主委請彭主委"},{"start":4628.729,"end":4645.143,"text":"謝銀委員恭喜主委主委金融會負責國家金融的業務包括保險、證券、期貨及銀行等相關目前在維持金融穩定建立公平健康能獲利的金融環境在你看來"},{"start":4646.482,"end":4662.547,"text":"我國的金融市場是否有達到金管會的一個目標那當然我也期許就是說就任之後這個主委你就任之後這個業務能夠積極然後不打折那營造一個安全公平值得信賴的一個金融環境"},{"start":4663.493,"end":4690.607,"text":"好不好是主委是我們努力是那我這邊先告訴主委目前臺灣的金融市場距離金管會的目標還有一大段路那公平的定義就是要諮詢要公開對等但是三大融資公司中租、育融、合潤這個帶來的亂象我想很多這個討論在立法院的討論非常的已經是"},{"start":4691.807,"end":4710.24,"text":"眾所皆知把錢借給一些信用不佳還款能力差或者是信用小白的這些對象然後可以不受金管會的監管收取高額的利息那這樣子跟高利貸有什麼不一樣那就等於說政府默許"},{"start":4711.921,"end":4733.992,"text":"這樣一個行為那你認為這樣公平嗎?融資公司今晚會可以容許這樣子的作為那我想請教我之前在詢問黃主委的時候黃主委說這個部分已經在研究辦法那我想請教這個辦法什麼時候會出來?"},{"start":4736.109,"end":4751.576,"text":"現在有關融資公司的管理我想這是我們社會上非常矚目的議題那現在我們的做法就是剛剛委員您提到我們現在有三大的融資公司它大概就佔了這個市場大概90%的份額"},{"start":4753.237,"end":4770.928,"text":"那這部分的話我們已經透過比如說我們上市櫃公司的方式來進行這個管理那再來的話我們也請他們在一個工會的自律架構下面把我們過去所關切的這些消費者權益影響的部分請他訂立自律規範來做這樣的納管那我想"},{"start":4771.829,"end":4800.024,"text":"接下來我們也會透過這樣的一個平台持續的來關注這樣的議題專法什麼時候會出來專法我們現在的話就是我們現在正在收集各個國家對這樣的管理的模式我們知道有關融資公司的部分並不是每個國家都是由金融監理機關來管理經理這個主委時間要拉快因為這個事情已經層出不窮太多的弊病不只這個啦更嚴重的像詐騙"},{"start":4804.063,"end":4819.816,"text":"這個可以說詐騙集團跟融資公司的相互配合讓這些人借了融資公司的錢錢還不出來的時候在詐騙集團把人"},{"start":4820.854,"end":4840.101,"text":"蓋進來然後融資公司再依照合約跟悲哀人追討那如果要解約還要付高額的違約金那這就是這些融資公司因為無法可管所產生的漏洞所以我們又再再三的提醒要求但是我們沒有看到金管會積極的作為所以我們期許說這個會期"},{"start":4842.563,"end":4842.964,"text":"財政委員會財政委員會主席"},{"start":4857.463,"end":4876.155,"text":"這個做法就是我們現在的自律規範裡面定的內容大概都有針對大家關注一體做管理當然有關專法的部分我們還要再研議就是說比如說要看各國的這樣那個監理還有就是未來它的樣態其實這個公司實際規模是那個數量是非常的多這部分我們會來持續來研究"},{"start":4876.775,"end":4904.328,"text":"好再來是虛擬貨幣剛剛我們很多委員都提到虛擬貨幣已經是第一個它起伏價格起伏不定然後穩定性低成為炒作投資的標的那無法可管而且發行門檻低交易自由度高被不法人士利用成為洗錢、滋恐、逃稅的工具那所以我想之前我們的黃主委上任我們黃主委他針對"},{"start":4906.275,"end":4924.174,"text":"他也回應說這個針對證券或期貨交易都有一個具體的規範手段就是透過特許執照還有這個控制市場的准入來一個指導原則當中但是需要完成這個洗錢防治法的一個遵循但是"},{"start":4925.216,"end":4950.674,"text":"目前我們沒有這個部分虛擬貨幣的部分那你新任金管會主委那你要什麼作為現在有關那個虛擬資產的交易的部分我們現在在洗錢防治法裡面現在正跟法務部在嚴定這個法規的修訂未來會採許可制的部分這會有效的可以對一些幣商的行為做一些納管"},{"start":4951.474,"end":4957.178,"text":"當然我剛才也跟委員報告過我們金管會現在也有請人研議這個虛擬資產管理專法現在的話預計今年9月這個報告出來我們會來就仔細的研議看看怎麼樣未來落實"},{"start":4967.352,"end":4988.745,"text":"比照歐盟其他國家加密資產的規範就是向該國主管機關來申請許可那當然這個場景之際就是要有一個專法那現在目前就像你剛剛提到的說是專法還沒出來那怎麼規範它"},{"start":4989.685,"end":5000.742,"text":"現在的話我們就請他們他們這個虛擬資產業者他們今年會成立一個工會那我們會去指導他建立他們的自立規範用自立規範的方式先暫時針對這個空窗期來進行規範"},{"start":5003.427,"end":5031.829,"text":"那時間多久?現在應該是預計他們是6月6月這個公會6月專法就會出來不是就是我們現在他的公會因為他們現在是一個比較6月才會組成這個公會他們現在正在申請那組成公會之後要等待專法的一個成立要多久時間專法我們剛剛跟委員報告過就是我們9月的那個計畫出來會有一個架構那我們看看先用自立規範先行做一個實驗然後接下來明年我們來看看這個立法的進程"},{"start":5032.549,"end":5052.602,"text":"好那主委再一個請教就是你是保險的專家那針對保險法第177條的修正主要是針對保險優惠員還有的勞動權益來訂定的那它有關的不僅僅是保險優惠員的權益還有保護的權益跟保障那同時避免保險公司假承攬、徵僱傭甚至於這個亂賣保險產品"},{"start":5056.624,"end":5073.062,"text":"那我們這個前主委黃主委是告訴本席說金管會沒有要考慮修法沒有要考慮修法那但是本席認為說除了保險法之外保險業務院管理規則也需要跟著同步的修正"},{"start":5075.084,"end":5085.249,"text":"保險委員的勞動契約包括教育訓練、講診制度還有申訴管道等等這些權益部分金管會應該要會同勞動部來修訂不論是業績考核還有納入勞動合約的部分"},{"start":5092.112,"end":5112.544,"text":"他們也都是講成辦法與管理規則之名但是金管會對此亂象卻僅是發函給各保險公會來進行道德勸說讓這些保險業務員承擔遭到不合理管考的苦果那你是否願意做更進步的努力來對保險法第177條保險業務員的勞動權益還有保護的權益來做更精進的修訂"},{"start":5118.047,"end":5130.663,"text":"當然對所有保險利害相關人的權益保護金管會都關切啦那剛剛委員剛剛您只是177條的那個修正現在的情況可不可以允許我請保險局局長跟您做回答,謝謝好,簡單說明"},{"start":5132.452,"end":5160.058,"text":"是 鮑委員因為那個保險業務員我們在管理規則規範是他的招攬行為那針對業務員的教育訓練、獎懲跟申訴管道在管理規則其實有要求做訂定啦那每一家公司都要把這個獎懲制度還有申訴管道建立好那申訴管道的部分那個審議的委員也都有一些平衡的規定包括業務員跟公司"},{"start":5160.618,"end":5161.138,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":5187.916,"end":5211.987,"text":"還是要請主委積極的來把這個針對保險法的修訂來做一個更精進的一個設計好不好那接下來我再請教就是跟主委探討一個我們現在最痛恨的問題就是詐騙電信詐騙的部分那尤其是金融詐騙會使民眾的心血畢生的積蓄可能在一夜之間就"},{"start":5213.607,"end":5217.671,"text":"有限公司、監管相關機構有限公司、監管相關結算所股份"},{"start":5230.29,"end":5259.25,"text":"遭受到這樣子一個詐騙的行為那不像過去我們臨櫃的時候都到銀行櫃台做臨櫃辦理會有銀行的行員來做一個把關嘛那不曉得金管會有沒有應對措施這部分我們對打詐非常的重視尤其我們最近呢不只是金管會我們跟速發部跟法務部跟內政部組成一個聯防我們會持續的推動很多有關金管會主管主詐的部分我們會做很多的努力"},{"start":5260.73,"end":5285.435,"text":"打詐是非常重要的尤其現在詐騙橫行那我希望主委你上任一定要把這個作為一個首要最重要的任務好不好是不要讓國人都長期處在這種非常不安非常這種屬於金融詐騙危險的環境當中讓臺灣不要再有那種金融詐騙輸出金融詐騙出口的那一種惡名"},{"start":5288.516,"end":5294.06,"text":"可以嗎?沒問題那今晚會一定全力以赴謝謝謝謝主委謝謝委員謝謝這位質詢請賴會員賴委員謝謝主席有請金管會主委請彭主委"},{"start":5318.584,"end":5339.195,"text":"主委早安主委非常歡迎我們一起為國家來努力那在這裡我想就是跟你請教一下那個你的人事的一個公布是在4月底5月初嘛對不對那你拜訪過我們羅明彩召委的嗎"},{"start":5340.175,"end":5364.498,"text":"因為昨天本來安排但是我們突然昨天才要安排因為我520上任那整天整天都在我現在講的你是4月底公布的對那5月初距離這一段時間這麼長的時間召委沒有拜訪那其他的委員也沒有拜訪其他我們都是本來安排在上任以後才開始拜訪"},{"start":5365.778,"end":5389.741,"text":"我覺得是這樣子可能你的幕僚有稍嫌不足稍嫌不足其實我也是第一次才看到你我看我挑了這張照片這張照片非常的帥謝謝我沒有同感我還挑了一張最帥的所以說主委我想就是幕僚的一個加強這個是非常需要的因為"},{"start":5391.26,"end":5420.78,"text":"大家號稱你是點子王你是一個非常能溝通的一個在產官協界一個很特別的一個人才那我們希望就是說你來接掌金管會你會有一個非常好的好的一個戰績也是一個成績那可是在這裡我要請教主委你曾經擔任宏泰人壽中國人壽還有就是台銀還有中信保險子公司的一個獨董"},{"start":5422.02,"end":5441.967,"text":"那這些你跟業界的關聯性互動這麼直接在未來會不會有業界的一個壓力呢我想這應該是不會有這個問題因為其實站在一個行政機關依法行政我想這部分因為我現在擔任金管會的角色我就一定全力做好這個分際"},{"start":5443.476,"end":5463.678,"text":"當然你非常有自信那可是這三家保險公司其實他們都面臨到了一個就是說財務那個他的財務指標一直拉警報那這樣子你怎麼樣就是處理這三家保險公司的增資的一個問題怎麼解決它呢"},{"start":5464.525,"end":5464.885,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":5479.634,"end":5506.543,"text":"就在委員指正我們回去會虛心檢討在這段時間你沒有來拜訪我們嘛所以就是說你應該也有很多這些業界就是不管那個中興保險公司還是整個宏泰宏泰人壽現在面臨到非常大的一個財務指標的一個困境那你沒有想到如果是利用政治的問題怎麼樣來解決這三家保險公司因為保險是你的內行啊有沒有想過這樣的一個問題"},{"start":5507.463,"end":5521.117,"text":"就是剛才委員那個指教這三家公司我想鴻泰他現在應該是我們資本氏族應該是達標的公司是那剛才就是委員提到就是新光面他指教了達標喔是那你也知道他其實有很大的一個困難點喔"},{"start":5522.648,"end":5537.434,"text":"所以我們都會密切關注因為我們大概每半年會去按照依法會檢視他的資本市足率那目前就剛剛那個宏泰他是符合我們的規定那當然後面這兩家確實是他現在還在按照我們的增資計畫在進行中"},{"start":5539.966,"end":5564.082,"text":"是是所以就是說在這裡特別跟主委做一個提醒這三家保險公司跟主委的一個曾經的一個互動是這麼緊密的好在未來我們也知道說主委他你的支持你的一個態度你是希望外匯資產負債的一個不配"},{"start":5564.802,"end":5590.834,"text":"不配備這個是你的一個態度嘛那我們當然希望就是說這個慢慢以後有很多的一個議題大家可以共同的一個討論到底臺灣的一個資金是要拿到海外去投資還是我們有沒有辦法成功的把海外的資金拿回來投資我們本體我們臺灣自己的一個產業我們臺灣的一個非常多的一個產業是非常好的"},{"start":5591.294,"end":5615.189,"text":"那這個有賴於就是說主委你個人對於這個整個就是我們國家的一個標的那這個是大家必須要透過不同的一個問題慢慢的來探討的特別提醒你因為我想就是說在於你的一個專業裡頭那就是保險當然是沒有問題那你可以就是說迎刃而解"},{"start":5615.749,"end":5643.284,"text":"可是面對金融的一個現狀我們當然希望主委你是準備好了那在這裡再特別跟主委再請教一下沿用上個委員沿寬衡委員的一個議題就是說這個主任公司的一個問題那如果我從你的一個報告裡頭我想這個對於融資的主任公司你還是把這個爭議你還是把它丟給就是"},{"start":5644.164,"end":5657.97,"text":"就是櫃買中心還是證交所去解決這些問題如果這些問題可以透過這兩個單位解決的話我相信不用很多很多的委員不斷的一直在提醒你"},{"start":5659.576,"end":5681.248,"text":"這個是一個非常大的一個問題主委你看過這個三道猴子這塊片子嗎我有聽過你有聽過那你的幕僚沒有給你看這個其實是存在當今社會很多很多的一個問題住院公司他透過一個不正常的一個管道你看喔他"},{"start":5682.168,"end":5702.722,"text":"竟然有辦法換高利貸超過22倍所以我們銀行那個不能做的他全部都可以做他也可以透過那個第三地的錢進到中國那他也可以就是違反土建融的一個限制所有銀行不能做的"},{"start":5703.522,"end":5714.42,"text":"他通通都能做那你怎麼辦呢你要知道這個到最後到最後如果他倒了是誰他掛掉了是誰要去承擔這個後果"},{"start":5716.335,"end":5734.788,"text":"當然是簽名買單啊那為什麼我們一再的一再的在提醒就是這麼大的一個問題那你們都沒有去考慮到啦就是說從你的報告裡頭你也把這個爭議的一個處理的事情你顯然也是輕輕的一個帶過我覺得這一個態度是讓我覺得"},{"start":5737.93,"end":5765.62,"text":"要特別再提醒主委你一定要去小心這一個議題這個議題是存在了非常大的一個社會的一個治安我們未來的未來的一個金融管理的一個很大的一個問題尤其這個中豬啊他借了公股1359億前進到中國他的高研製力非常嚴重未來他勢必會影響到我們金融的穩定性這從"},{"start":5767.441,"end":5785.344,"text":"三個月前到三個月後我們甚至看到了它的研製力越來越高所以你勢必勢必一定要去重視這些問題是不知道主委你怎麼看待這個事勒其實剛剛跟委員報告一些就是說我們對融資公司我們確實是寄予高度的這個注意"},{"start":5785.945,"end":5811.164,"text":"那我剛才也有報告過就是說雖然說現在看起來我們現在沒有專法但是我們已經有各種的管控措施在管控當然現在假如執行成效不如外界的預期我們會來加強處理那我剛才提到就是說我們也在收集各國對融資公司管理的這個內涵呢我們也考慮去研議未來的這個是否有要以專法來管理的可能性呢"},{"start":5812.11,"end":5836.187,"text":"主委我們期待你是用一個專法來管理它而不是用一個行政的一個手段光是行政的一個手段顯然是不足以應付這個怪獸了所以就是說你必須要去探討我們也希望就是說你把一些相關性的一些這個在網路上就是一直在流通的這一些真的就是呈現出來住院公司"},{"start":5837.087,"end":5854.723,"text":"貨海這麼多的一個年輕人還有這麼多一個需要資金的人這些狀況你快速的把它瀏覽過你才知道這個沒有誇張這個真的是呈現在我們四周圍我們的服務處不斷的接到了就是這個本席來自於一個農業的一個選區裡頭當你看到"},{"start":5858.326,"end":5871.892,"text":"一對老爸爸老媽媽他們帶著他們剛到這個都會城市裡頭來念書的一個兒子那他就是被主任公司綁住了這種我們都非常的痛為什麼"},{"start":5873.325,"end":5889.658,"text":"他幾乎就是還沒有出社會他就是負擔了很大很大的一個負債了這個不是只有卡債不是只有學債的問題而已他可能一輩子他都換不了身了所以為什麼你們一直不重視這個問題你們到底在怕什麼呢"},{"start":5889.978,"end":5917.072,"text":"其實我們是很重視只是說方法上面我們會來持續再思考有什麼更好的方法是主委我們希望就是說你用更好的一個行政方式用更好的一個專法然後來約束顯然他已經從公股銀行搬了這麼多的一個錢這個是我們查得到的還有更多是我們查不到的我相信就是說你們看整體的一個財務報表你們會比我們更清楚這個還是我們"},{"start":5918.032,"end":5925.824,"text":"就是只是靠了助理從網路上搜尋下來的我相信在業界一定有更深的一個了解"},{"start":5926.926,"end":5948.88,"text":"主委我們對你期待非常高我們對你有很大的一個驅喜那我們希望就是說金管會在未來其實是一個行政團隊最大最大的一個亮點我們不希望就是說一直在喊金融科技其實這個金融科技已經喊太久了"},{"start":5949.66,"end":5971.373,"text":"其實某種程度也是監管套利我們希望就是說我們期待這個主委他有更高的一個亮點有更好的一個未來那可以帶領我們臺灣的一個經濟走向一個更好的未來這個是那個中心對主委的一個驅喜趕快來拜訪那個兩位召委謝謝來委員的勉勵謝謝我們一定趕快補上謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":5979.386,"end":5990.657,"text":"有需要的話也請賴委員一起我們就來做一個輕鬆的早餐會或是喝咖啡也可以歡迎接著請賴世保賴委員謝謝主席齊科欣欣有請主委請彭主委"},{"start":6008.188,"end":6037.321,"text":"你早賴委員好我看你第一次來有點緊張嗎有不要緊張這個外面對你的評價一開始都不錯了說你人人不錯你當教授的時候常常替業界出點子啊替他們解決啊什麼之類你看到那個我們的這個市局長啊小細細的因為你來當主委又是保險的是不是所以你是當教授"},{"start":6038.649,"end":6066.235,"text":"就是讓業界跟你關係很好業界放鞭炮特別是保險業可是你要看金管會的執掌是兩塊一塊監理一塊就是金融產業的發展我今天看你的報告啊老實講你金融產業的發展談得蠻多的相對監理談得不多監理談得不多所以外界就擔心喔"},{"start":6067.763,"end":6083.012,"text":"經理的話就是人家會討厭你本來原來當教授、當副院長人人好、人人愛現在要管人家、人人嫌當一個被討厭的人你的心境怎麼調整"},{"start":6083.888,"end":6103.817,"text":"其實我會接下這個工作這個當然心情已經調整了那剛才委員指正說我的報告裡面可能比較少確實因為這次主要是針對業務報告因為我們距離上次的業務報告就有點近我只針對主要是我為了要推動其實我們的監理的內容其實很多我是沒有寫在上面就我們會持續的推動"},{"start":6104.817,"end":6130.274,"text":"這個金融安全是最重要的但是安全之餘就跟委員剛才提到的發展也是很重要市場沒有了也沒有什麼監理的標的所以我覺得這部分我們會這個持續的強化這沒有問題這個現在我覺得發展沒人會擔心因為你這一塊人脈已經在那裡了現在大家擔心的是你的監理你不能做到真正的鐵面無私"},{"start":6132.022,"end":6135.584,"text":"我請教你幾個重大的政策來因為我剛看你回答其他的委員都很簡短了我希望你就簡短因為好幾個問題要問當初的證交稅要不要繼續跳槍"},{"start":6161.085,"end":6185.692,"text":"我們的意見已經給了主管監督我們從金融市場監理的角度來看我們現在是提給財政部說我們是支持然後維持五年的維持再延長五年嘛現在是這樣有其他不同聲音出來喔包括教授也好包括我們立委也有人提出來說這個老半天當從"},{"start":6187.808,"end":6203.949,"text":"都沒賺錢的賺瘦了這樣啥進啥出你要不要講一下大概當中平均最大活力者是誰然後大部分一般的一般一般的一般大戶散戶是配愛貴"},{"start":6205.348,"end":6232.763,"text":"當初呢我們有請交易所有統計這個資料那當然從我們從買進賣出的價差來看那獲利的人數跟賠錢的人數來看獲利是稍微多一點賠錢少一點但是金額上面確實是以那個價差來看是賠錢的金額大一點不過它賠錢主要是集中在某一個區塊上面兩個區塊對這個我們可不可以請我們交易所要間斷喔因為我實在"},{"start":6235.085,"end":6247.016,"text":"來跟委員報告那那個當沖的部分來講的話剛才主委提到就是說我們的事實上當沖的賺的人數大概53%然後賠錢的部分是47%那13%這樣子的一個人呢基本上呢"},{"start":6257.907,"end":6258.267,"text":"小賺小賠誰是最大獲利者?"},{"start":6287.23,"end":6310.613,"text":"最大獲利者最大獲利者最大獲利者你不好意思講我聽你講你跟我說yes就好了最大獲利就是第一個政府嘛整家稅一里修啊對吧是同意嘛齁第二個券商啊手續費一里修啊做內定啊對吧這兩個賺最多"},{"start":6312.543,"end":6322.929,"text":"其他呢小戶小賺小賠大戶呢沒什麼大賺賠的比較多就這個意思是不是報告委員你剛才講的是正確的但是我覺得"},{"start":6324.074,"end":6339.183,"text":"但是我覺得說還有一個因素跟委員報告就是說因為當中產生的市場的機制這個中性的機制所產生的量能事實上也吸引了更讓這個我們的整個資本市場這樣就說說看政府的稅收多了就對了第二個金融營業稅5%的問題來講一下態度是什麼"},{"start":6348.268,"end":6374.737,"text":"現在我們103年改成稅法改成就是我們5%裡面3%是歸國庫2%是歸進入到特別準備那今年10年到期落日了所以我們金管會的態度是認為說這個兩千一百多億的特別準備希望能夠保留在我們存保這邊作為未來處理問題金融業那再來至於說未來稅率的調降我們提出兩個看法一個就是說因為金融業他沒有進向的稅額所以他的"},{"start":6375.217,"end":6401.654,"text":"相較的其他國家比較來講是有可能是偏高再來就是說我們金融業來看的話我們是希望就以國際競爭力來看我們是建議說能夠調降就是從5%回到能夠做的調降我們也把這意見也送給了財政部這是因為財政部從5%回到2%還是回到3%我們沒有對稅率來做一個調降我們只建議說可以從5%調降因為準備金不要了嘛準備金是因為2000多億的夠啦"},{"start":6403.375,"end":6432.054,"text":"還不夠我們其實上應該還不夠對就是說我們會有存保那你不能調降啊你這樣哪裡有條件調降哪有機會調降不可能啊就是5%那是財政部主政那我們只是建議說過去所提存10年提存的2100多億那部分繼續保留在我們的那個存保這邊然後至於未來這個10年到了那財政部他是主政單位我們是建議說若有可以的話調降因為調降為多少不知道我們沒有這是他主政的範圍是"},{"start":6434.395,"end":6459.504,"text":"這個還是要講喔黃主委已經講清楚了他是希望跳降就是他說跳降為2%、3%你都不敢講這個當然我們預期是這樣但是我跟他講這是財政部的那個執掌我們是建議調降對嘛但是你們預計要出來啊是所以我們會最近會再跟這個財政部做我覺得我請你確定你心目中認為最好是2%還是3%"},{"start":6461.925,"end":6474.814,"text":"如果按照這樣結構的話原來那個的話應該是就以稅收考慮應該是2%可以看就是希望調低到2%好我沒有看到原來那個特別準備金的部分就是變成3%"},{"start":6476.468,"end":6494.483,"text":"就是他原來就3%是進國庫嘛那2%進特別準備那個既然不要提的話就可以看那你現在是倒過來3%進準備金2%進國庫這個意思嗎就原來就是3%進國庫嘛那2%的話是特別準備金因為他落日了嘛對所以我們希望把他調降對"},{"start":6495.868,"end":6509.317,"text":"就是 如果現在委員您問我的話我會覺得就那個2%的部分直接降成3%對 大概是這樣2%降為3%你聽到沒有5%降2%變3%5%直接降到2%啦啊 國庫不要給他喔國庫原來就是3%啦但是我還在強調這是財政部的主政範圍啦所以我有3%啦"},{"start":6524.526,"end":6528.688,"text":"中間怎麼分再說就這個意思5%變成3%3%怎麼分再說你有提到簡單的講就是你講到金融科技"},{"start":6538.126,"end":6564.168,"text":"其實金融科技我們原來一直想推一直推可是推得不怎麼樣金融科技最大的問題在哪裡就在於說大家都要以銀行為主啊原來的FinTech是要以網路科技為主讓這些能夠創金融業、金融相關的業結果我們立了法金融薩爾也好什麼也好都是以銀行為主啊所以我就問你"},{"start":6565.731,"end":6591.376,"text":"你是不是有提到要成立Fintech發展處是不是現在主要是外界很多期待希望金管會能夠針對金融科技跟發展能夠有獨立的處但是根據我們中央組織法規的規定我們的局應該是達到上限但是金管會它的整個內部編制裡面它可以有4到6個處是我們自己決定的所以未來比較有可能的規劃是以處的方式來進行"},{"start":6592.136,"end":6619.366,"text":"就等於任務編組對 就是我們內部可以按照我們組織法可以4到6個處我們現在只有4個處那是固定的喔固定的一個處喔 是不是這個意思是的 是的好 那就是不用修法不用不用那人數大概size多大這個處因為我們現在是這樣因為我們現在還是維持原的人數我們現在因為沒辦法在這個時候去爭取到原額那我們接下來會以現有的人力先來做假如做出成效我們會再來爭取另外有個大的問題想請教"},{"start":6621.075,"end":6639.501,"text":"有關你F4要不要合併了這是大家一直討論的問題F4啊一個意見這個因為我時間到了好是那個證交所、櫃買、騎交所、騎保四合一這委員是不是那個容許我請鄭徐局長來跟你回答好20秒就好了要不要"},{"start":6640.59,"end":6641.29,"text":"推動臺灣成為亞洲資產管理中心"},{"start":6668.243,"end":6686.934,"text":"既然是這樣子而且你要打五萬塊很好你這個有這樣的一個衝勁那你一定要面對加密貨幣的問題加密貨幣香港發行比特幣、以太幣的現貨、ETF美國有比特幣的ETF等等的"},{"start":6688.134,"end":6714.902,"text":"我請問你啊就是你會什麼時候可以開放還是從來不想開放換個委託的方式去買海外的加密貨幣的ETF現在有關海外ETF那個虛擬資產海外資產我們有非常深入去了解各國的制度其實是各有各有不同的制度那我們現在的話有在規劃如果是的話也是以法人科為優先實現表呢"},{"start":6716.571,"end":6743.725,"text":"時間表可不可以我們請那個局長我想在年底前我應該內部會討論完畢年底以前可以互委託臺灣這裡互委託買海外行加密貨幣的ETF是這樣子嗎我這樣清楚嗎年底之前會討論出一個明確的政策供外界來參考要報你喔不是說年底之前就開放參考各國的實施狀況"},{"start":6745.575,"end":6774.673,"text":"那因為很多國家有的有開放有的沒開放有的有條件式的開放美國有沒有開放?美國是有有啊香港沒有啊中國大陸中國大陸還沒看到但是我們看到香港其實香港其實他是有條件式的韓國也沒有開放日本也沒有開放所以這個我們還要再蒐集國外的狀況來做一看那最後一個消息的問題就是那個補充保費啊"},{"start":6778.647,"end":6792.914,"text":"說這個股票的這個利息就是那個純股足以前是2%現在要把它調到3%2.1調到3%金融會有態度這個會影響到長期投資我們金融會鼓勵人家長期投資的"},{"start":6794.14,"end":6812.668,"text":"對 這個部分衛福部現在還沒有跟我們討論到這個問題啦所以阿如果咧 因為媒體燈這麼大我們可能會來跟衛福部討論一下我們應該如何因應但現在可能還要等他來跟我們討論這件事 謝謝謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝下一位質詢請王宏威 王委員"},{"start":6825.675,"end":6826.397,"text":"主席"},{"start":6837.879,"end":6856.261,"text":"謝謝王委員好 主委首先先恭喜你這也是老朋友謝謝那但是我剛才也有聽到賴會員委員在詢問那就是你有沒有拜訪過我們召委還有就是各委員那昨天我有接到你的電話"},{"start":6857.262,"end":6877.512,"text":"因為確實昨天一整天我們所有的委員都被綁在議場上那我覺得你可能太客氣了啦那事實上好像經濟部長在上個禮拜就已經開始陸陸續續在拜訪了我所了解像內政部長也是當然內政部長他自己出身立法院"},{"start":6878.072,"end":6893.69,"text":"所以我覺得這個部分禮數跟周到或者說你可能也太客氣了一些那當然以後就好像還有很多的事情大家可以再做這個交換意見主要呢我還是要特別提到有關我們的當沖的"},{"start":6895.953,"end":6901.734,"text":"這個稅要不要繼續調降的問題因為呢之前是財政部來做備詢那我有特別提到而且我也特別表達我不贊成當沖稅率繼續的調降為什麼呢因為前陣子我們的主計處也公布了最新的貧富差距貧富差距事實上是擴大的非常非常多66.9倍"},{"start":6925.559,"end":6948.81,"text":"我們常常在講其實擴大貧富差距當然整個社會結構是其中之一但是我們的稅制其實也是非常關鍵的因素比如說我們要怎麼樣來調整、改善貧富差距的問題其實政府的工具有限其中一個就是稅"},{"start":6949.71,"end":6960.435,"text":"可是你今天想要比如說徵稅啦或者改變一些稅制真的非常非常的困難好那我們回過頭來其實如果我們的當中稅率繼續調降的話唯一的獲利者我老實講唯一的獲利者是政府"},{"start":6967.418,"end":6986.861,"text":"第一個機管會可以繼續的維持這個整個的交易的榮景我們待會可以看確實我們實施這個當沖稅率調降對半調降之後呢我們的這個交易確實增加了很多但是"},{"start":6988.188,"end":7014.799,"text":"但是這使得就是我們的這個整個稅制裡面躍驅的是去鼓勵資本所得者而懲罰勞動所得者所以我個人覺得這個當沖稅要繼續調降而且你們一提就提五年我覺得蠻誇張的啦我真的覺得蠻誇張當然因為你是昨天才上任我真的覺得這個事情應該好好討論來我們看下一頁"},{"start":7017.346,"end":7031.311,"text":"好財政部對這個事情事實上是有疑慮的感受得到因為他們對他們來講稅制要公平嘛量能科稅好再來看也就是說到底我們調降當沖稅率"},{"start":7033.055,"end":7052.933,"text":"有沒有這個活絡市場市場我們看到已經達成而且很高啊非常的活絡啊我們在2016年的時候平均的日均量不到一千億實施之後呢已經超過一千億一千五百億到今年一到四月份日均量五千億"},{"start":7055.563,"end":7070.403,"text":"這請問一下我們還要再鼓勵什麼我們還要再活絡什麼難道現在不夠活絡了嗎那你就算你要繼續實施你也應該再看一段時間啊我覺得這才合理下頁"},{"start":7071.86,"end":7090.661,"text":"重要的是像我這樣我那天就提出來我大概是非常非常少數做民意代表敢講說我不贊成當中稅率要繼續調降的因為我知道可能會得罪一些廣大的股民還有一些這個在股市裡面的航海王天天在那邊衝來衝去的"},{"start":7092.483,"end":7104.221,"text":"可是我們今天來看你們的活絡市場的目的已經達成了那至於到底大家的獲利的狀況大家也可以看到2021、2022、2023"},{"start":7109.048,"end":7123.797,"text":"2021整個的虧損是435億2022是304億2023這個是預估值事實上我也知道證交所給我最新的資料也是total加起來是291億也將近300億這是去年的資料我們再來看重點是當我們說這個其實"},{"start":7133.499,"end":7156.16,"text":"整個是虧損的時候那麼交易所也給了我一個資料說啊沒有啊其實呢這個大部分是大戶虧損的比較多一般的散戶賺的比較多可是如果我們看overall的話可以看到整個的當沖交易統計這個是證交所給我在上面把它整理出來"},{"start":7157.406,"end":7166.832,"text":"我們獲利的是52.93%虧損47%獲利233.5億虧損524.76億虧損的還是比較多虧損還是比較多一半一半看起來很公平一半賺一半賠那但是我看這個數據跟賭博有什麼不一樣就是我拿個我這邊沒有那個一個錢筆"},{"start":7188.584,"end":7196.448,"text":"對啊骰子還有六面啊然後我這前面不是就一個對不對一個正面一個頭像一個那個非頭像"},{"start":7197.83,"end":7223.523,"text":"那這跟賭博有什麼不一樣所以要繼續調降當沖的稅率唯一只是繼續維繫一個股市的榮景這個榮景也許是上升啦但是當它是下降趨勢的時候它只會更加深它的這個跌勢而已但是至少它的交易量是確實存在所以我就說這變成是政府當莊啦"},{"start":7225.185,"end":7249.561,"text":"唯一最賺的就是政府啊雖然這個好像是手續費啊這個當沖的這個什麼手續費這些通都調降可是因為你殺進殺出殺進殺出所以我們這幾年我們這幾年的超收稅說主要都來自股市所以我想請問新的經管會主委您對於當沖稅率原來提出來要長達5年繼續調降你的看法是什麼"},{"start":7252.882,"end":7281.108,"text":"謝謝委員剛剛提到就是說若從損益的角度來看當沖的話這個通常假設以戰戰金管會立場他比較不會去從這個角度他會從整個交易的流動性增加還有價格發現還有他市場的效率性來看確實在我們當沖的時候這樣存在的這樣的一個市場的時候確實剛剛那些效果是比以前好的剛剛委員也提到就是說未來就是等於是我們的規模已經達到沒有人覺得這麼好乾脆永久卸條這樣囉"},{"start":7282.748,"end":7298.79,"text":"這倒也不是這倒也不是就是說一件事情一定有他的正反兩面你階段性調降就階段性任務階段性已經達成了你們還不要給他調降他當然是有階段性任務才會說我延長再延長幾年如果這麼好你就全部把他改過來"},{"start":7300.846,"end":7325.288,"text":"這部分的話就是說因為資本市場本來就有很多面向我們從資本市場監理的角度我們剛剛看到是這個面向剛剛委員你提到就是說比如說從投資者的獲利還有鼓勵所謂的投機這樣的角度那當然是有另外一個看法那我們只是說我們要提供意見陳同該委員提到我們過去這個公文已經給了財政部以後確實是財政部據我所知財政部覺得不夠"},{"start":7326.088,"end":7349.061,"text":"還要讓你們提供更多的資料其實在這一點我是比較支持財政部的立場因為一個稅制不應該而且你像我們通常一個階段性你一下就五年欸對所以說我覺得這部分我我們當然接下來有關各種面向我們會提供財政部很多的想法啦因為最後主政單位是他我們會再表達我們的看法對"},{"start":7350.097,"end":7377.275,"text":"另外這個我已經講出我的立場我希望我希望你們能夠審慎的去研究因為這個你是新的主委你可以再做多一點瞭解不一定不一定原來的這個黃龜棚就一定要水而且呢我覺得不管是跟我們覺得就是稅制應該不要去一直在懲罰薪資所得者"},{"start":7378.015,"end":7395.567,"text":"然後一直鼓勵資本所得者還有就是他的這個降稅事實上他的階段性功能已經達成了應該適可而止另外一個就是大家也非常關切這個是在您還沒有就任之前在我們的司法法制委員會有做成決議"},{"start":7397.668,"end":7425.217,"text":"我不知道你知不知道就是有關於這個保險你也是專家就是保險強制執行要訂出一個參考的規則這個我剛才也有其他的委員也有特別提到因為幾乎每一位民代不管是議員也好或者立委也好通通都接到相關的陳情跟服務案那有一些事實上還蠻悲慘的我直接講我真的還有我的這個選民"},{"start":7426.477,"end":7455.823,"text":"哀求他哀求什麼他說能不能幫我保留30萬的最後的傷臟費用講到這樣子其實我真的很想幫忙啊所以我覺得當時這個整個法院做出來的這樣的一個決議其實沒有考慮到整個的保險市場裡面它的面向非常多然後投保的人裡面那有一些"},{"start":7456.443,"end":7479.501,"text":"真的可能是把他的錢藏在保險裡也確實但是有一些真的我們講說有薪資所得或者他的收入並不高但是呢他每一年每一年這樣子慢慢的就幫自己或者幫家人做一個投保可是因為這樣子他就整個保單都解約了所以我講就是說我的選民竟然有告訴我說能不能幫忙"},{"start":7480.282,"end":7496.32,"text":"把他留一點點喪葬費用在那邊不要讓他全部解約很心酸所以我知道在司法法政委員會裡面他有一個決議然後要求你們要去訂定一個就是一個"},{"start":7497.401,"end":7509.919,"text":"原則哪些可以排除或者一定金額那我現在看到媒體有講說是有10萬塊那我希望能夠適當的提高好不好因為10萬塊其實是很少的耶"},{"start":7512.663,"end":7530.728,"text":"那我可不可以請 可不可以 用一點時間趕快我們這個禮拜已經開過會了那保留的部分因為那個是解約金的金額每一件每一張啦但是如果是保險金額的話我們其實訂的比較高我們是訂100萬人壽保險契約"},{"start":7534.049,"end":7561.592,"text":"人壽保險契約即便解約的話保險契約如果在一百萬的金額以下的話就建議他不予強制執行一百萬如果是人壽保險的部分一百萬就不予強制執行讓這些保護辛辛苦苦他至少能夠這種並不算是大額的保單讓他能夠"},{"start":7563.053,"end":7563.233,"text":"下一位質詢請"},{"start":7592.096,"end":7606.191,"text":"郭國文、郭昭緯主席謝謝有請新任的彭主委請彭主委"},{"start":7610.666,"end":7635.562,"text":"謝謝國務委員首先就較於有關新光人壽的這個部分新光人壽因為爭執不足被上任的主委黃天墨黃主委進行行政處分這樣行政處分代保生、代董事長不服尋求行政救濟我想要問您的基本立場你是希望維持原處分還是希望能夠協助他撤令處"},{"start":7639.079,"end":7660.813,"text":"主委你回答啦沒有我只要問他是不是真的有來做訴願現在我們是還沒收到他的訴願書但是就是說我們現在是依法來處罰啦那這部分當然人民當然是有訴願的權利我知道我是問您的立場你是維持原來行政處分還是會協助他撤令處"},{"start":7661.997,"end":7686.245,"text":"如果現在的當然站在金管會立場我們會支持現在的處分一直處分到他增資為止嗎是是這也是保險法的規定就是RBC的部分呢都不能打折扣就是維持黃天牧、黃龜、彭水這個是保險法的規定我問你是不是這件事情是黃龜、彭水啊這個我們已經金管會已經做出裁處是不是一樣"},{"start":7687.325,"end":7688.026,"text":"黃天牧主委過於強調監管而缺乏發展"},{"start":7704.221,"end":7727.936,"text":"或許外界就對你的期待就希望你將來能夠在發展的面向多出一點力所以你今天特別金管會方向當中你就特別強調了安全與發展這兩個面向可是我本席在這邊提醒你監管是否太嚴是否要鬆綁是否是要去管制化"},{"start":7729.097,"end":7756.978,"text":"這是要扣合著發展現在外界聽到您的任命一片叫好充滿期待他們期待什麼他們期待是你鬆綁啊他們期待什麼他們期待你去管制啊他們只期待這個不是期待真正的發展本席想要請問你啊這有關於這安全跟發展之間的界限啊您能拿捏此度到底如何你要如何發展你至少講一些基本原則啊你不要讓外界過度的期待嘛好不好"},{"start":7757.438,"end":7781.57,"text":"所以委員的那個提示是非常對就是其實發展並不是去監理化這兩個是雙軌並進就是說我們對市場剛才講對公司的行為監理、公司治理、資本氏族這些沒有放鬆的理由但是呢我們對未來新市場的發展這個還有就是說我們持續的做法規鬆綁"},{"start":7783.372,"end":7801.068,"text":"對於調適成本的下降就是所謂的依從成本的下降這我們是要該做的那等於說我們要讓他們有更大的空間可以做新商品但是既有的業務還是不能鬆就從保險業部分您的說法是如此但是以金管會現在不賦予啊"},{"start":7801.368,"end":7822.28,"text":"的政策目標跟責任越來越多元越來越加重的情況底下你也不得不有一些要去管制你也不得不有一部分要鬆綁但是這個鬆綁跟去管制的前提你要以發展作為一個正當性為前提來做考量不是嗎是所以你也不能一直強調說我就是以監管為主是"},{"start":7822.52,"end":7851.109,"text":"所以說我是認為你在這個部分的宣示應該寫得更講得更清楚不要讓外界有過度的期待是我來改進可以嗎可以可以好 彭主委這個部分希望你能夠講得更清楚更明白另外一個部分呢有關於本席一直關心的我在4月1號的時候在聯席委員會的時候就要求國會要創造一個平台國會已經創造一個平台也就是如何把海外的受險基金引進我看過您的大作"},{"start":7851.809,"end":7877.347,"text":"你說受險基金要投入公件有兩大因素一是專案時間二是報酬要穩定但是以受險業來說它就是沒有案源那報酬也不穩定的情況底下那我就教於彭主委這個部分要怎麼處理接下來國發會又要開會了接下來又有平台會議了接下來您的主張是什麼有沒有具體的方式把你學者之見形成一個政策之實"},{"start":7878.087,"end":7885.498,"text":"這也是我努力的方向確實保險業在過去我們大家社會期待這個將近35兆的資金能夠留在臺灣當然臺灣的資本市場還有投資標的不夠這是確實的那過去在"},{"start":7894.17,"end":7921.082,"text":"在金管會對保險投資的法規鬆綁已經做了非常大的空間但是沒有暗源這也是最近我跟國發會跟其他各個部會非常密集的在一邊討論這件事情我們一定要趕快創造可以被你先腦袋中有沒有具體的介紹比如說我們現在可以類似發債的方式先用比如說我們具有自償性的用發債的方式再來比如說我們把一些公件發債的那個利率呢"},{"start":7922.063,"end":7941.743,"text":"對,利率的部分我們可以再來現在銀行利率比發債的利率還低啊他取得資金很容易啊對,這個確實是那再來就是有關一些所謂的我們看看有沒有可能把一些公件部分來做證券化好,這部分呢我們透過金管會這邊來協助能不能做一些我們就要討論啊"},{"start":7943.564,"end":7967.552,"text":"對 這個需要案源這個案源需要跨部會來處理這個是非常非常重要你可能要再想清楚一點有具體的操作方式會比較可行我覺得這個部分還有有待於你大力的努力將來我們還有機會做進一步的探討還有另外本席一直倡議的所謂的金融科技局你今天在媒體上回應了所謂的金融創新處"},{"start":7968.772,"end":7973.809,"text":"但是你三個處多一個處剛剛有委員問你你的人員編制有沒有增加"},{"start":7975.319,"end":8001.825,"text":"你人員編制也沒增加啊然後二來呢你出的位階又低於局啊那這種情況底下呢出的這個建議修法的建議局不一定會踩啊那怎麼辦一來人員沒有增加建議權沒有增加你只是多一個扛棒把人員做一些調動多一個人多一個處長的頭銜對整個事情的運作真的有幫助嗎主委這個齁其實很多事情要先跨出第一步因為"},{"start":8002.805,"end":8030.964,"text":"我剛才跟那個委員報告過因為我們現在設局牽動到中央部會的組織我知道人事總署說當中到底還沒有二職機關本席也就有去打聽過了好像空間相對有限但是整個行政院的主改過程當中過往財經部門不曾主改你有沒有印象幾乎這一段時間幾乎不曾主改也就是說你是不是大體來想你是不是思考一個比較長期性的一個政策規劃當中來作為一個思考"},{"start":8033.446,"end":8060.306,"text":"因為最近行政院有提出啊要將體育署成格為體育部啊也就是將來還有整體一個主改的計畫嘛當這個主改計畫來臨的時候你就要適時的推出這個整個財經部門金管會的位階事務要提升從會提升為部那部的部分組織的編制就可以增加編制可以增加人員可以增加你的業務推動才有比較有可能順遂的可能嘛是"},{"start":8061.286,"end":8075.815,"text":"這個確實是我們長遠的規劃的想法所以說你有期待把這個處變成部囉這個倒不敢我現在是至少未來如果有可能成為先有局先有局這個概念是我們可能未來想要規劃先有局"},{"start":8077.136,"end":8103.808,"text":"先有局先有局當然是一個好啊先有處先有局先有部你現在是循序漸進的方式來處理但是這是由下而上的方式也有由上而下的方式啊不是嗎這也是一個思考對那你應該做一個整體的規劃嘛創造你這個主改的正當性嘛是不然你一路的哀求人事總處那邊也不一定會施放多少人力給你啊不是嗎我們大家內行的嘛都比較白嘛對不對"},{"start":8104.548,"end":8124.921,"text":"阿如果是這樣子你不如由上而下速度會比較快一點謝謝可不可以從這邊來進行規劃主委好我覺得這是可以來思考的方向對啊你要趕快進行主導而不是隨便弄一個金融創新數來糊弄本席而且最重要的是你後面具體的做法過往阿"},{"start":8125.501,"end":8138.827,"text":"在整個金融創新處本席之所以會那麼的care的原因是因為譬如講以我們的沙盒實驗我們沙盒實驗都希望業者去"},{"start":8140.647,"end":8168.931,"text":"將就於既有的法令但是呢卻沒有要求業者去創造一個新的業別的可能性因為你將就既有回應跟既有的業者有所競爭嘛我今天很開心你提出你要針對一個沙盒的一個這個創新的這個條例對不對這個是有具體作為的當你有這樣的法的時候你更需要有這樣的人員的編制啊不是嗎那你現在如果通過這個條例之後你的KPI有多少呢"},{"start":8169.611,"end":8180.233,"text":"你希望能夠增加多少?最近沙盒實驗裡頭幾乎都沒有成功的案例啊幾乎啦所以我們現在會來大力推動我們的三頁的事辦"},{"start":8181.038,"end":8204.928,"text":"好那本席期待你的具體的作為我做一個廣泛性的提醒而且這個金融創新數當中還有一個虛擬貨幣的一個問題這虛擬貨幣的部分本席就一再的強調你們不要過度的自我限縮你們不要想要採取深度的監管應該採取廣度的監管也就是說你們現在納入所謂的這一個"},{"start":8205.928,"end":8225.137,"text":"那個法尊的申請當中才進行20家左右明明還有60幾家之多主委我請問你一下你有沒有可能進行廣度的一個監管把這個其他業者申請當中你說快速的納入有沒有可能這個部分我們已經透過那個政局局跟櫃買在做審查啦我們想說這個我們會趕快來朝向開放"},{"start":8225.877,"end":8238.676,"text":"對不對就是因為社會有對納管的這個這樣的期待你既然第一個任務是要打詐的話你這一個問題就不能迴避而且要積極處理第一個本席建議你"},{"start":8239.98,"end":8263.393,"text":"那個深度監理要朝向廣度監理這剩下的這幾家在申請當中要趕快讓他擁有這個法證聲明第二個的部分差異性的管理也要OTC的部分、交易所的部分、個人避傷的部分都要納管啊這樣的情況底下你才有機會啊再透過這一種虛擬貨幣詐騙的部分你再生徹底的防堵徹底的賭詐有沒有可能"},{"start":8266.274,"end":8281.842,"text":"這個才是一個很重要一個關鍵的問題啦好不好這個我希望都看到主委之後有一個具體的回應給本席好不好因為時間上的關係我也不方便啦那將來我們來日方長繼續咨詢好不好好謝謝再跟委員報告抱歉謝謝"},{"start":8287.313,"end":8296.842,"text":"有關剛剛講的資料再後補提供補充資料給相關的委員接下來請李燕秀理委員謝謝專委請彭主委謝謝你請彭主委"},{"start":8313.049,"end":8329.226,"text":"主委好主委辛苦了也恭喜你有機會從彭教授變成彭主委去落實很多你過去在學界也好還有包括你在報紙上我常常看到你對於金管業務你的看法"},{"start":8330.087,"end":8354.593,"text":"我先問一下簡單的一個議題也是一個外界都會關注的就是上午11年的補充保費制度剛才有其他委員提到就是說現在健保署希望提高補充保費率由現在的2.11%提高到3%我想先請問主委你個人對於這件事情的態度你的意見是什麼"},{"start":8355.919,"end":8381.374,"text":"報告委員我現在很難用個人意見表達了那我想說剛剛也有委員也提過這個問題我們這會再跟那個就衛福部來協商這個問題主委我為什麼會這樣提我不是要考你我覺得因為這件事情石崇良署長介茅署長自頭自尾都沒有跟你溝通過他自己根本連試算都還沒有試算過他自己先放一個心目在那裡你們是一個團隊"},{"start":8385.37,"end":8398.863,"text":"這是我要罵他的地方你要告訴他說你要對外宣布你連試算都沒有試算過你就對外宣布3%對於長期投資的存股戶的影響很大欸2.1 臺灣3%對很多人來說是很多的欸"},{"start":8405.959,"end":8423.182,"text":"所以我覺得這件事情我剛才問說你的態度是什麼你的想法是什麼這個對於未來我覺得各單位牽涉到跟你有關的業務最起碼對你是尊重要先問過我先跟我討論過你才能宣布"},{"start":8424.841,"end":8441.043,"text":"這我們可能適時來跟衛福部討論一下這個事情我覺得你要跟石崇良講不是你要怎麼樣就怎麼樣你也要讓我有時間跟我存股戶去做溝通吧你要一個預告期那我也要知道外面的影響是什麼或者我拜託他說你不要一下調到2.11"},{"start":8442.915,"end":8469.333,"text":"你是不是談到2.5就好了所以我剛才才問說你的態度是什麼因為你的態度去決定你後面怎麼去跟他談這是主委我要提醒您的地方這是第一點主委我看到剛剛很多委員問了很多議題那其實都在問你對於整個金管業務的最主要的態度那因為我今天時間不多我就主要我再接續下來問因為我過去也關注到在這段時間我有特別"},{"start":8470.194,"end":8492.953,"text":"爬梳一下你過去在報紙還有包括在學界討論的很多議題跟你的想法那我接下來就是要就保險資本監理到底應不應該跟IFRS財報做脫鉤這件事情跟您做討論那我們都非常清楚IFRS跟RBC這是兩套制度這兩套制度的高度的"},{"start":8495.254,"end":8518.464,"text":"財務的表達方式其實都非常重要這整件事情其實包括加入保險法的加入淨值比之後其實成為RBC比率等量的資本監理基準其實從此財報的影響比資本監理其實更重要財報其實是以短期限的進變性觀點為基礎"},{"start":8521.525,"end":8531.014,"text":"所以到底這整件事情是不是能忠實表達受險超長期經營的週期這個是你過去在報紙所討論過的那當中其實你在文章當中也提到包括2008年金融海嘯的影響當時也是我們的受險業其實"},{"start":8543.665,"end":8560.231,"text":"剛開始獲利非常多但是金融海嘯發生的時候我們9家受險的淨值它是負數後面它馬上又彈回來包括2020年的新冠疫情也是當時2月份的受險的淨值其實是新高然後後來短短一個月之後"},{"start":8561.031,"end":8585.951,"text":"整個淨值又跌了5000多億元但是7月它又爬回來所以那包括2022年我們大家都知道美國暴力的升息其實也是剛開始影響非常大我舉這三個例子的事件其實都要凸顯說我們短期它可能對於財報有短期的變化但是就長期而言其實並不是如此所以我想"},{"start":8587.372,"end":8604.35,"text":"現在您當時的彭教授再回過頭來問你彭主委你到底對於我們資本監理到底應不應該跟IFRS的財報做脫鉤我想請問主委您的意見這個主要的概念是來自於美國的監理我想"},{"start":8605.571,"end":8620.063,"text":"我以前是會計系的我剛剛上課的時候老師有跟我說過其實會計根據你的使用者不同你的編制的目的跟方法就完全不同像我們的稅務會計跟財務會計就完全是不同那剛才講過IFRS它是做財務會計的表達"},{"start":8621.744,"end":8647.923,"text":"他主要使用者是投資人但是我們RBC也好監理、會計他主要是我們要來做長期欣賞能力這兩個確實有點差異那這個部分其實在國內在這一塊呢我們確實在我過去在當彭教授的時候確實對這個東西提出很多的看法那我覺得未來若有可能的話我有可能盡量去釐清這兩個的差異然後再來呢主委我相信你來到這邊"},{"start":8650.304,"end":8669.92,"text":"賴總統也好卓院長也好從業界或從學界找你來其實我覺得他一定有不同的想法希望從過去他們一定從過去你在文章上你在學界你的看法他們才會找你來就是你跟過去的黃主委可能有所不同的地方這個不同不一定是"},{"start":8670.52,"end":8670.76,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":8686.408,"end":8705.99,"text":"因為我們都知道說短期的財報其實影響都是多應該是做一個長期穩定受顯現我們會希望看到是一個長期穩定的方向就是說以長就短的結果其實短期讓業者看起來有利但是絕對對於他們業界做長期的規劃的決策"},{"start":8708.012,"end":8733.283,"text":"絕對是不良的影響所以我剛才會問你問題的我一開始就問你問題說其實我們監理到底會不會跟財報做脫鉤還是你會做一些微幅的調整你方向到底是什麼我覺得就是我們過去用那個淨值比作為資本監理那確實在學理上面是有一些可討論的空間我覺得這個東西如果未來我覺得我會可能會去持續調整它的內容"},{"start":8735.41,"end":8745.175,"text":"主委持續的調整我們當作您只有四年的時間好了因為一任四年嘛你會在第幾年做好調整這個隨時動態來做啦對啊"},{"start":8748.267,"end":8774.885,"text":"有時候在外面跟在裡面其實不一樣這個底下的事務官有時候會給你很大的壓力就是說你在外面在看的時候你覺得應該這麼做但是到裡面我擔心說你過去的理想被現實現在的大環境你過去的理想覺得該調整了被下面層層舊的這些法規啦大家給你的建議就動不了了那我覺得就會失去您來的意義不過是對的事情我們就要持續的做啦"},{"start":8775.37,"end":8800.344,"text":"你會堅持的做所以方向上你會做調整也應該朝部份或什麼樣的脫鉤方式我想知道你政策上你走的方向因為當你決定了政策方向在這邊宣布了之後下面的人就會跟著你動你現在說我想想看我思考看看底下就會跟你講主委最好不要這個齁所有的監理指標都是要按照我們真實的狀況來調整我想當然包括鏡子筆"},{"start":8802.745,"end":8811.529,"text":"最後一個問題因為時間也快到了目前保險業的資本適足性的管理辦法當中有一個淨值比不得低於3%的規範你會不會調整?"},{"start":8815.765,"end":8835.226,"text":"因為這個是定在保險法裡面它的剛性蠻強但是所以這部分的話我們會或者我應該是這麼說我知道你說剛性很強但是您來您從學界來賴總統找你來我不知道當時你有沒有在他的智囊團裡面或者是卓院長看到你來應該是對你過去的"},{"start":8837.368,"end":8865.383,"text":"想法大家是支持的所以到底你剛剛提到剛性很強但是找你來就是要來做調整跟改變我想你也是要來去做調整跟改變所以我才問你說剛性很強是一回事但你的決心很重要或者甚至你會不會用其他規範來進行監理你有沒有想法這個部分其實我覺得這裡面應該是想還是我剛才那句話只要是正確的對市場有利對消費者有利我們都要做啦"},{"start":8865.717,"end":8892.179,"text":"你目前心中有沒有負案?會不會有其他的政策來去處理?就是說他現在規範的淨值比不得低於3%事實上在產業界他們是有不同的經驗我相信在這段時間你走訪了那麼多跟工會做互動你大概都很清楚知道問題在哪裡所以你自己心裡有沒有負案?有想法嗎?或者你現在覺得還不成熟不敢在檯面上講你有想法嗎?"},{"start":8893.119,"end":8908.445,"text":"當然有想法但我覺得容我把整個方案講得就是能夠比較可行的時候再跟大家報告好 所以你有想法有其他想法或其他的政策方向可以去做進行規範跟建立你是有覆案的有有好主委我期待"},{"start":8913.735,"end":8928.815,"text":"您可以發揮您的專長可以去做一些改變其實我今天還有很多其他政策性的問題要問但今天真的時間太少了謝謝委員的指正謝謝主委也祝福也希望您的想法跟理想能在接下來這四年我們可以看到好好落實謝謝您"},{"start":8935.236,"end":8946.143,"text":"那現場有兩位委員等兩位委員發言完畢我們就休息十分鐘接下來請下一位質詢黃珊珊黃委員好謝謝主席我請彭主委請彭主委主委好"},{"start":8964.148,"end":8986.59,"text":"歡迎您到金管會來我想接下去怎麼樣金管會跟我們財政委員會有非常非常多的互動首先我想就前一陣子我們在上任2月1號上任之後跟黃天牧主委一直在討論的是也是本委員會大家非常關心的就是融資租賃業融資租賃業現在已經成為臺灣的三大影子銀行"},{"start":8987.35,"end":9003.967,"text":"這三大影子銀行數千億的融資然後造成了造就了我們臺灣非常多年輕人成為所謂的山盜猴子主委也都理解嘛山盜猴子讓很多年輕人背負了數百萬的債然後一輛"},{"start":9005.433,"end":9029.62,"text":"三五萬的摩托車可以借到幾十萬甚至現在已經嚴重到拍一張冰箱的照片就可以借個二十萬完全不需要徵信更不需要說明它的利率融資公司法我們本黨團民眾黨團已經擬好相關的草案融資公司專法在民國97年金管會也曾經提出相關的願版"},{"start":9031.314,"end":9036.893,"text":"主委你剛上任我想請教你對融資公司設立專法你的立場是什麼"},{"start":9037.844,"end":9065.026,"text":"我想這個剛剛有很多的委員也關注到我想我在上任之前我們的同仁也都跟我提到這些的內容那我想現在現階段金管會的做法大概就以現況來進行管理那比如說我們現在是希望先針對大型的資本公司透過一些比如說我們的上市櫃公司所以主委我想問您對專法的方式您有沒有什麼意見目前還沒有想法對"},{"start":9066.067,"end":9095.162,"text":"我剛才提到就是目前我們在還在收集各國對於融資公司是否由金融監督是由金融監理機關來管理這一塊我們在做當然我剛才也跟其他委員報告我們也不排除做這樣一個研究沒錯其實我們在質詢的時候也提出來像美國就是用金融監管單位甚至連中國大陸都是而且我們的公股銀行在中國大陸也有設置相關的同樣的公司也受當地法律的監管"},{"start":9095.962,"end":9120.95,"text":"也就是說融資公司我們要的不多第一利率要明確第二不可以有暴力討債的狀況第三你要借他他能力負擔得起的債務而已只有這麼簡單的要求但是97年到現在目前講將近16年當年是因為有非常嚴重的卡債問題那時候做的是叫做銀行現在幾乎叫做什麼公司都可以融資"},{"start":9122.27,"end":9146.323,"text":"完全用賣東西的方法假買賣徵融資所以融資專法我們會開公聽會我們也希望主委能夠聽聽財委會各個委員的意見然後各界的意見就這個法案我相信不管你金管會要不要提版本財政委員會立法院這邊一定會有版本而且一定會審查你麻煩主委做好準備是"},{"start":9147.452,"end":9165.124,"text":"好第二個問題是我們現在有非常多的詐騙案件詐騙案件金管會是最前端的那詐騙案件偵查上面我常常說重點是民眾不在乎有沒有抓到這個詐欺犯民眾在乎的是他的錢追不追得回來"},{"start":9165.925,"end":9184.483,"text":"我們現在都抓得到詐欺犯但是都找不回錢現在問題就在於說資訊的交換速度夠不夠快所以資訊交換不夠快錢就轉出去了抓到那個人頭戶就算警示了也沒有用所以我們現在要比賽的就是誰比較快是"},{"start":9185.063,"end":9204.244,"text":"所以主委在這個打詐的效能上面現在提了打詐專法但是有很多的部分其實是在金管會前端就要做好處理的目前的虛弊市場虛弊業者我們現在都讓他們自律沒有納入管理接下去他們現在碰到的問題是一樣的"},{"start":9205.906,"end":9229.752,"text":"他們跟調查局、刑事局各自都有聯絡但是沒有任何一個平台跟銀行聯絡他們跟警察165也要靠傳真才能聯絡接下來去可能跟法務部高檢署有聯絡但是也是個別的聯絡我要做的是主委可能需要的你協助的是怎麼樣把這些前端跟後端尤其是在法務部最後追蹤的部分"},{"start":9230.712,"end":9239.972,"text":"大家一起做一個打炸平台而這個平台需要金管會做前端最重要的連結跟串聯包括現在沒有納管的虛幣市場"},{"start":9241.297,"end":9263.313,"text":"您可以了解一下這件事情嗎這點沒問題我們這個從我還沒開始上任就非常被密切的關注這一點而且金管會也被賦予說蠻多重要的任務現在很多虛弊業者他當然是在國外他想在臺灣申請那目前為止25家合法有申請有洗錢聲明的但很多很多都是沒有的可是他們"},{"start":9264.093,"end":9289.019,"text":"怎麼樣納入我們的管理納入我們的平台進入我們的平台可以協助政府一起來打造我相信這是金管會接下去很重要的任務不是放任他在外面他想幫忙幫不上有警示賬戶利用這些虛幣相關的平台來做洗錢甚至來做詐騙會越來越多這個擴大納管我們也在努力中好"},{"start":9290.536,"end":9318.292,"text":"這個打炸平台我想主委我希望它變成不是只有單一讓民眾或業者大家自己來前端的金管會跟後端的法務部大家必須要合作而且要連結最後一個我想簡單的問一下我們現在金管會有一個很可愛的題目5月15號發了一個公文他說因為現在有太多的網紅在做銷售或從事廣告的營業行為包括"},{"start":9319.232,"end":9334.513,"text":"賣ETF啊鼓勵大家去投資這個投資那個所以我們投信投顧業工會呢我們要對網紅進行管理是吧是的他們就是現在由工會訂了一個行為規範我想問一下什麼叫做網紅"},{"start":9339.397,"end":9361.504,"text":"來網紅主委不知道對你知道他的定義是什麼常態性於網路上發表資訊內容供大眾閱覽並以此盈利者就叫網紅就是要賺錢的人那有很多很多人很多新聞媒體很多相關的報導其實都在報導這個股票最近多好多好這樣算不算網紅不算"},{"start":9365.726,"end":9389.517,"text":"這個抱歉我還要再研究一下局長要不要回答有沒有我們請我們局長我的意思是說你這個東西的定義網紅怎麼管管誰管怎麼管這個剛講如果是涉及到投資有價證件這個是在我們在規範的都要規範對所以我們會要求業者你要跟網紅簽約那如果他沒有盈利呢他就一直在說這個很不錯這樣子而已呢"},{"start":9390.177,"end":9404.813,"text":"算不算網紅這個人不錯其實就有點鼓勵的概念了我最近買那個ETF很不錯然後怎麼樣怎麼樣那這種人算不算我的意思是如果要規範就清楚的規範但是如果你現在這樣的定義有點怪怪的啦"},{"start":9405.809,"end":9430.251,"text":"我的意思是說要管因為太多人在做而且每一個都說他是投資專家我們投信投顧是要有證照的是要申請廣告字號的跟委員報告所以先前我們請投信工會他要致力研究一個規範方式致力方式報到局裡面來我們在上個禮拜合配他們的對我們希望導正國內的投資市場但是一樣還是要管得到"},{"start":9431.912,"end":9436.456,"text":"最後一個就是剛剛很多委員在問的是有關當沖降稅的延長我剛剛聽到主委是說繼續延五年是嗎?"},{"start":9457.273,"end":9468.19,"text":"過去我們已經發函給財政部表達這樣的看法表達這樣的看法那財政部的回函同意了嗎沒有沒有同意還沒那接下去會是什麼樣的結果"},{"start":9469.622,"end":9491.95,"text":"接下來我們還會再跟財政部再做一些討論所以行政院還會做政策性的決定這要行政院來決定我對於當沖降稅沒有個人的意見但是我們看到以前的主委您在政大的同事王立寧教授他主張如果長期投資的要不要給他一些優惠"},{"start":9493.53,"end":9500.082,"text":"我們現在當充當天不用證交稅減半但是我們對長期投資反而沒有鼓勵這不是很奇怪嗎"},{"start":9502.028,"end":9523.494,"text":"主委理解我的意思嗎?如果我持有了這個股票三年、五年是不是反而可以給它一些優惠?這個可能是金管會可以去思考的也就是說我鼓勵當沖減半好像我們鼓勵投機我們對於長期持有的反而沒有任何的優惠這個可能是接下去金管會在你決定當沖不當沖減半的部分"},{"start":9525.655,"end":9543.808,"text":"或者是常態化減半很多人主張常態化減半鼓勵臺灣的投資市場但也有人說這是鼓勵投機相對的是我想問對長期投資反而我們是不是應該有一些態度我想這個可不可以請我們局長把現有的狀況跟您說明一下下"},{"start":9544.068,"end":9573.228,"text":"市局長跟委員報告現在業者其實有提出提撒的概念那我們也在研究中也跟財政部這邊看他們的態度怎麼樣就是說你是長期投資你在租稅上要給他優惠鼓勵是的所以也就是說不是只有當沖降稅而是長期投資給他租稅優惠也是政府的一種態度那最重要的是我們希望他長期持有對於國內的金融體系反而比較穩定那最重要的是我希望新的主委有新的氣象"},{"start":9574.769,"end":9594.544,"text":"過去可能有一些比較我認為比較保守的地方我希望新主委到任之後我們可以從業界的角度從比較不是那麼官方的角度來重新看我們將來的金融管理的制度那最重要的是希望主委能夠順利的推展業務我們希望為臺灣做點事謝謝王偉謝謝"},{"start":9601.363,"end":9613.56,"text":"現在請吳立華吳委員謝謝主席 有請彭主委請彭主委"},{"start":9618.127,"end":9639.179,"text":"主委您好我這個會期初次來到財委會那最重要的原因我給自己一個很簡單的目標就是我希望這個會期我能夠讓我們的原住民族人他的原保地可以拿到銀行做生貸就這麼簡單的一個理由"},{"start":9642.12,"end":9660.37,"text":"事實上剛才很多人都會談到融資公司其實這個融資公司呢在我們原鄉對族人所造成的影響其實是更嚴重的因為它是很有吸引力的我們透過一夜市網站也好任何的廣道"},{"start":9662.117,"end":9677.456,"text":"連一個手機他都能借錢連一個壞掉的摩托車他都可以借錢這個對急的人來講他是非常有誘因的但是呢他也變成了債務的冤首所以像這個融資公司"},{"start":9678.297,"end":9694.159,"text":"其實在我們原鄉很多人叫做開當鋪我們也很多原住民青年他都當下線開當鋪他是萬物皆可待所以呢他可怕的其實不僅僅是在於高利率的問題他還可以自訂手續費"},{"start":9695.541,"end":9712.633,"text":"所以造成一個很多人越來越多人加入的一個好生意那我在這邊會關心這個就是我們講一般人是有土私有財但是我們原住民就被人家笑是窮的只剩下土地"},{"start":9713.473,"end":9735.318,"text":"那因為正常的貸款管道我們不得其門而入所以呢就只有被逼到地下化所以在這個兩個月其實我在財委會這邊我也問過金管會跟財政部、內政部、農業部、原民會來到這裡我都會來關心關於原保地生態的問題那我也開過"},{"start":9736.858,"end":9753.61,"text":"原保地建價機制銀行放貸方案的一個研商會議那其實我的訴求很簡單主委就是我希望各部會分工像是金管會財政部我就希望來提供一個公股銀行的評鑑誘因"},{"start":9755.171,"end":9755.331,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9785.371,"end":9807.792,"text":"在這個5月有回函給我他們說會協助來請這個估價施工會研擬準則那農業金庫也回函了積極配合辦理原住民貸款業務原民會也回函了說他們已經研擬了原保地的一個信保作業要點草案"},{"start":9808.973,"end":9823.098,"text":"財政部也回函了說會協請公股銀行來配合內政部辦理估價那你們金管會也回函了上次黃天牧主委也說了就是他已經發函"},{"start":9824.478,"end":9851.977,"text":"督促各個銀行落實公平貸客原則落實普惠金融政策那也在推動修正金融評鑑的規定如果願意承作原保地的貸款業務會給予加分並且加強宣導那另外建議內政部要做實價登錄增加原保地交易資訊建議原民會要去做原保地的信用保證提高銀行的意願"},{"start":9852.657,"end":9866.854,"text":"那我也要跟主委說明你們建議內政部石家東路部分他們也回函已經做了原民會的信保剛才有提了也已經在研擬草案了那現在我就是要請教主委好"},{"start":9868.275,"end":9890.419,"text":"各部會都已經釋出了正面的回應那金管會這邊除了ESG的評鑑加分的制度不曉得主委你有沒有其他可以積極促成的解方請教主委是委員這個可不可以容許我請銀行局局長跟您回答一下好謝謝主張局長"},{"start":9892.725,"end":9908.625,"text":"報告委員剛剛就已經特別有提到就說ESG的評分因為今年的評分的指標其實是已經進來了所以我們已經仔細的去檢視裡面的評分的指標是可以放進去的"},{"start":9909.065,"end":9930.212,"text":"那更長期的指標的話我們也會督促就是評鑑的小組把這個更長期的指標列進去所以讓就是元寶地這樣子的放款可以放進去增加這個多元化的這個指標那至於是不是還有沒有其他督、積極促成的解方"},{"start":9930.692,"end":9941.127,"text":"是不是可以讓我們來思考一下因為目前我們有多項的政策性的放款比如說中小企業放款或者是六大核心企業的放款那這個部分的話我們也來演繹看看有沒有可能把它放進去"},{"start":9946.775,"end":9964.868,"text":"那還有再來就是說各金融機構它在偵測分支機構的時候我們會看它政策的配合度給它一些加分的項目我們也可以來思考是不是針對原住民的這個放款是不是也可以放到這個加分的項目裡面好 董事長報告"},{"start":9965.728,"end":9983.838,"text":"謝謝局長也謝謝諸位我這樣聽起來確實是很有善很積極但是我這邊還有一個小小的請求就是我們真的走進銀行的時候其實還有一個小障礙那就是我們所謂的5P原則"},{"start":9985.479,"end":10004.726,"text":"那這個5P原則其實我第一次質詢金管會的時候我有提到其實在國外都有一些消除歧視消除刻板印象的政策你應該很清楚因為我這個5P我簡單講其實是很容易落入刻板印象"},{"start":10006.124,"end":10029.381,"text":"我光是講借款人是原住民是不是那個分數就很低了對不對然後你提到資金用途做什麼啊你的還款來源啊這個分數都很低的債權的保障啊還有甚至受信的展望像假設他說我為了要去做現在小型露營廠已經合法化"},{"start":10030.282,"end":10050.852,"text":"可是他想要去做的時候他會面臨我要弄一些污水處理啊我會被要求要去做水保設施啊他沒有資金啊他想要去貸款啊好那這時候獸性的展望可能他就不理解我們銀行端可能就不理解他那個獸性展望到底是什麼"},{"start":10051.892,"end":10071.342,"text":"所以我想這個部分我其實是要談的是說現在金管會各部會我們的好事就做盡就是治標也治本那主委您也是新上任勇於任事我是在想齁這個援助民族的財務體質啊我覺得要改善"},{"start":10072.611,"end":10094.748,"text":"那這是社會結構的問題不能夠單純的去歸咎個人的問題我希望政府一同的來承擔那我也希望我們原住民族有一天可以不再仰賴政策不再仰賴政策所以在這邊我要跟主委講一下其實我在109年的7月也就是疫情最嚴峻的時候"},{"start":10095.729,"end":10118.004,"text":"我有召開一個協調會為什麼因為當時我們的紓困貸款原住民看得到吃不到他沒有那個信用所以呢我那個時候有請原民會還有聯府基金會幫忙做一個清償債務的這個部分原民會很好當時金管會其實也有幫忙"},{"start":10119.165,"end":10136.42,"text":"有提供那些金融輔導員獎勵金就是你每幫忙一個個案他就給他獎勵金那我現在就是拜託我們的主委是不是可以支持就是比照像法輔基金會他們有一個定期定點下箱的服務配合活動他們就有一個帳篷"},{"start":10137.961,"end":10160.91,"text":"我是希望說跟原民會的金服員合作也能夠有公股銀行來合作去做一個原住民族債務整合及清償的專案我想這個部分對我們原住民很重要另外就是現在我們政府尤其是賴清德總統他在台南市政府的時候他就在推族群主流化的政策"},{"start":10161.84,"end":10176.8,"text":"那我想我們的原住民族教育也在前幾年已經修法把對象改為全體國民所以我們說這是全民原教我們原住民族作為臺灣的一份子作為臺灣這個土地的長子"},{"start":10179.443,"end":10208.597,"text":"我是希望說這個部分我們的金管會也能夠來策進我們的這些銀行他們能夠做一個在職的訓練提升我們的公股銀行的從業人員對於原住民族的一個認識跟各種原住民政策相關的認識我相信會對我們整個友善金融普惠金融會有很大的幫助那請主委來表示一下您的看法"},{"start":10209.978,"end":10217.285,"text":"您提到這兩個我們完全支持只是說前面那個可不可以請由原民會來發動開會我們來參與謝謝主委加油謝謝主席謝謝主席休息10分鐘"},{"start":10919.597,"end":10931.866,"text":"繼續開會下位質詢請李坤澄理委員謝謝召集人我們請彭主委請彭主委"},{"start":10951.895,"end":10980.866,"text":"彭主委好你好今天第一次被詢早上這樣子問下來還習慣嗎?正在適應中有什麼心得嗎?很尷尬很尷尬欸?不過我看早上還好啊大家都對你蠻客氣的啊哪邊你覺得比較尷尬?我覺得戒慎不恐懼啦戒慎我們立法委員都是和哀可親的啦"},{"start":10983.021,"end":11010.169,"text":"那個跟你第一次碰面應該是在520的國宴那在此之前就是只有在這個報紙上面有看到這一個人事的發布那其實有機會的話應該多跟所有的財政委員會的委員要多交流一下才知道說這個未來金管會的走向畢竟過去黃天牧主委當了4年多的這個主委那大家也都有所肯定"},{"start":11011.369,"end":11032.579,"text":"他也都跟所有的委員平時會保持交流跟互動我想這部分的話也請彭主委這部分能夠多加強這一定 謝謝那這個520賴總統在宣誓就職之後他也說過這個打仗是他這個重要的目標"},{"start":11033.769,"end":11048.746,"text":"那我們新任的這個行政院長卓榮泰卓院長那他在就任革魁的時候他也說這個打詐是他這個任內首要的目標這個未來內閣他手中這個武打棄安那面對這個"},{"start":11050.849,"end":11077.41,"text":"這個詐騙的話呢除了我們現在通過這個打詐釋法之外呢他想要讓這一個想騙的不敢騙已經騙的會被抓騙到手的沒得花那當然這一個就這個行政部門來講的話這個我們金管會也是屬於這個五大主責機關的其中之一嘛那我先請教一下我們彭主委那未來對於這一個打詐這方面在金管會這方面你有沒有什麼樣的這個看法跟主張"},{"start":11078.473,"end":11102.108,"text":"打砸現在最首要就是說我們把我們現在已經在做的就把它落實跟強化接下來第二個就是有關那個打砸專法的部分我們要趕快把執法建立起再通過第一時間去強化這些幾個重要的措施像剛剛委員應該提到了橫向的聯繫以及對於打砸專法裡面跟金管會有相關的有哪些"},{"start":11103.1,"end":11119.656,"text":"裡面呢主要幾個條文呢主要針對比如說我們建立一個跟經景的聯防機制還有金融機構之間的合作還有解除那個金融機構在互通資訊保密的義務還有一些對一些被詐騙的金額做一些賬戶上的處理我想這些都是非常非常關鍵的"},{"start":11120.777,"end":11143.907,"text":"那你剛才沒有提到有關這個法則的部分那法則的部分在打詐專法的裡面或是這個洗錢防治法的修正草案裡面都有關於法則那當然在這個打詐專法裡面的法則呢我們對於這個提供虛擬資產服務是事業或人員還是有行政法"},{"start":11144.793,"end":11166.831,"text":"然後在洗錢防治法的修正草案裡面呢對於這個虛擬資產服務的事業或人員的刑罰呢是兩年以下有期徒刑那主委認為這個不論是打詐專法或是說這個洗錢防治法對於虛擬資產的這個行政法跟刑罰您覺得看法是怎麼樣適當嗎還是過輕還是可以再加強的那我想這個草案剛通過我覺得這樣的話應該是可以先來試行"},{"start":11172.853,"end":11179.987,"text":"所以你認為是足夠的我是這樣想你是這樣想那對於這一個過去我們也曾要求"},{"start":11182.403,"end":11205.39,"text":"這個黃主委就這個虛擬資產專法來這個提出來那他也說這個可能也做過研究了啊但是呢法案的內容然後還有時程呢由下一任主委就是彭主委來決定那請問一下彭主委對這個虛擬資產這個專法的這個心中的想法是怎麼樣那大概何時會提出來"},{"start":11206.075,"end":11234.86,"text":"我們對於那個虛擬資產的管理現在按照我們既定的這個策略在進行那我們對於這個那個專法的部分呢我們已經請那個專家在做研究9月呢他的報告就會送過來那我們大概預計最快可能是明年明年送到立法院嗎這個中間有一定的程序至少我們在明年的時間我們在金管會之間是9月提出來9月提出來是你們9月份這個金管會"},{"start":11236.83,"end":11259.284,"text":"會送到行政院嗎?9月是這樣因為我們上次在黃州的時候也有跟大家報告就是說我們現在因為這個虛擬市場專法設計的層面蠻複雜我們再請專家學者再研究這個報告已經快完成9月按照我們的9月完成報告那我們就趕快來加快來研議這個過程那我說最快也是明年事情才會有金管會這邊會有結果會送出來"},{"start":11260.114,"end":11275.339,"text":"所以明年才會送行政院明年才會送立法院這樣應該是這樣我怎麼記得之前黃主委不是這樣講的啊我怎麼記得之前黃主委說這個下個會期9月份就會送到立法院來"},{"start":11276.664,"end":11305.045,"text":"應該是說按照我們現在的那個市局長對那我們請我們張局長應該是我們的概念是說找協議來研究出稿我們會在9月份看得到那後面要落實的話那條文我們還要細部去討論所以剛才主委才說我們大概明年就可以來看到所以今年不會有關虛擬資產專法不會送行政院也沒辦法送到立法院就對了是的是明年才會送對明年才會送是"},{"start":11306.448,"end":11331.543,"text":"好 那這個至少要把這個時程再把它確定一下因為我們上次在問這個黃主委的時候黃主委都還蠻保守的他就一副覺得說這個接下來就是接下來主委的事情他也大概沒辦法決定太多那我再問一下我剛剛這個這個之前也蠻多委員在問的有關於這一個受險的事情受險的這一個資本市儲率的問題"},{"start":11332.977,"end":11355.511,"text":"這個有關於現在有關三商美邦跟星光人鬥的這個資本市值率在3月底的時候齁這個這兩家公司都會達到法定標準的200%嘛對不對那你們也做了這個這個處罰那請問一下到6月的時候這兩家公司有辦法達到這一個法定的這個資本市值率嗎保安局局長跟您做詳細的說法好 謝謝市局長"},{"start":11362.028,"end":11372,"text":"報告委員因為我們已經請公司再提他的財業改善計畫等他來了以後我們來評估他到底後續提出來的沒有因為現在五月底了"},{"start":11373.823,"end":11402.905,"text":"那個新光應該...因為3月份的時候已經不夠了嘛就沒有達到標準了那理論上就會貼出來了啊快...快...應該時間快到了我們有給他一點時間啦還沒有貼出來喔還沒...5月24...他現在還沒有貼出來喔都被你們罰了都還沒有貼出來喔我們那個財報確認時間是在3月底嘛那我們4月發文給他們那所以大概5月底左右他們會...會送過來那你們有沒有做什麼樣的指示要求"},{"start":11404.006,"end":11424.673,"text":"希望他們能夠達到哪一些的標準能夠達到這個基本性主義我們希望他提出一個可行的方案能夠改善他的這個RBC的規定儘速回到法定標準你這樣講很空泛啊我說我們有一些標準啊或是說哪一些他們沒有達到然後你們做一個要求他可以達到"},{"start":11426.101,"end":11454.733,"text":"如果他們要提供什麼樣的一個選擇他們會請他們提比如說像增資增資也是一個選項還有就是他們有可能也會去發債或者他們會提一些財業務裡面的一些改善的措施讓他的RBC能夠做調整所以在他的財務結構調整上他們也會現金增資合理嗎現金增資是其中一個重要的選項或者是還有其他的發債"},{"start":11456.013,"end":11483.782,"text":"那這兩家公司呢?這兩家公司在你們的要求之下有提出什麼樣的改善的方向嗎?等5月24號以後他們提來的我們會去評估他提出來的那個是不是可行啦進度上是不是可行三個月的時間有辦法達標嗎?這要看他提出的項目是什麼如果現金增資的話照這樣看的話應該"},{"start":11485.88,"end":11502.977,"text":"應該有一些已經他們在做了有一些是會落到下半年現金增資你是指星光?星光跟商商都有過現金增資兩家都有然後會有這個子公司上繳盈餘這部分嗎?"},{"start":11504.604,"end":11519.029,"text":"新光的子公司上繳營餘在上半年已經完成了那還是不夠嗎?還不夠,所以他還要再提所以現在新光是要雙管齊下嗎?現行增資然後再繼續上繳營餘嗎?"},{"start":11521.845,"end":11542.543,"text":"目前他們上繳盈餘的部分6月以前就已經完成了然後他現在在做的還有發債那發債的部分現在預估在6月底也會有大概55億的發債的金額另外他下半年還有現金增資的規劃那這樣有辦法達到你們的要求嗎"},{"start":11546.128,"end":11572.986,"text":"這個部分可能還要看最近它的那個整個RBC的狀況我們要進行評估啦那個試算那到4月呢?4月有最新的有資本市足率的這一個數字出來嗎?那個去年年底的數字4月是出來的我們才會發公文給他們請他再提不是去年年底啦去年年底當然我們現在就知道啦我說有最新的有這個資本市足率的數字出來嗎?"},{"start":11574.168,"end":11581.999,"text":"沒有 再來就要看六月的數字啦所以六月現在還沒到那 大家知道彭主委跟壽險業還蠻熟的那你跟這個新光人壽董事長魏寶生熟不熟"},{"start":11588.69,"end":11608.135,"text":"他以前是我在保險室的司長是我的副司長所以這個我是希望公歸公司歸司當然對那也希望說對於這個一般民眾來講當然希望說他達到這一個資本市主律對大家才有保障"},{"start":11608.775,"end":11625.872,"text":"但是我這樣問局長又答得很含糊其實我也不太確定說他目前所提出來這個方案或是你們對他的要求能不能到6月的時候達到這個資本市主率因為我們上次給他的公函是給他一個月內要回覆一個月的期限是5月應該5月24號"},{"start":11627.915,"end":11628.616,"text":"王世堅、王委員"},{"start":11661.731,"end":11673.459,"text":"謝謝主席我請金管委員、鄭主委請彭主委抱歉抱歉他是說正職的啦正職的主委抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉彭主委彭主委王委員好"},{"start":11682.719,"end":11706.558,"text":"沒想到我們第一次碰面我就把你的姓氏稱呼錯誤喔那其實諸位我對你是蠻有信心的也蠻了解的啦就是說我去看了過去你的一些著作還有你的主張那我覺得你這些主張齁比方說你講到"},{"start":11707.796,"end":11729.428,"text":"你說受險業啊他們的狀況你用一個很好的形容你說他們啊就如廬山煙雨啦那麼他們的複雜跟他們的多變就像廬山煙雨而且你當時還批評過"},{"start":11731.041,"end":11749.991,"text":"金管會說他們圖利了受險業這些財團因為他們發放了高股利反而降低了受險業的淨值我覺得你那樣講是蠻正確的喔不能說為了圖利受險業的老闆們然後去綁架了保護的權益那當時你這麼說"},{"start":11757.591,"end":11785.888,"text":"那麼當然啦你現在上來的這個位置可能你會做一些修正你會比較實際的去了解不過不管如何修正我認為站在金管會的立場本來就要嚴守這個看管的立場那麼我就提到說比較三老金的我今天跟你談兩件一個"},{"start":11787.099,"end":11805.914,"text":"就是租賃這些融資公司那當然這個我先前問你們而且我也要求金管委就是說是不是針對融資公司我們要有融資公司管理法結果上禮拜"},{"start":11807.54,"end":11820.926,"text":"你上任前金管會已經有答覆我他就說欸現行啊對融資公司已經有管理機制所以他們拒絕訂租賃專法就對啦那 諸位我認為喔這一個答覆四個字胡說八道哪來的哪來的管理機制沒有啊"},{"start":11838.066,"end":11860.932,"text":"金管委這一個答覆等於睜眼說瞎話金管委明知道現在對融資公司的管理是推給經濟部欸 主委你知道嗎經濟部是依公司法管這一些融資公司公司法管理全國140萬家公司我就講租賃最大的這三家好了"},{"start":11867.728,"end":11872.631,"text":"中租、抵合、合潤、育融三家都上市啦三家經濟的總規模佔了所有融資公司超過95%我姑且稱這三家叫鼠條三兄弟啦齁"},{"start":11886.638,"end":11903.109,"text":"屬條三兄弟的二列我相信你應該是有所聞那麼我們來管理他是對的啊結果你現在轄下的金管會他做這樣的答覆然後在你今天的報告你說這個報告你說啊這個現在要來針對這些融資公司"},{"start":11910.373,"end":11917.218,"text":"鼠條三兄弟BMPL你只寫掉BMPL要來加強管理但是彭主委BMPL不是重點為什麼BMPL在鼠條三兄弟年營額裡面6800億裡面佔連5%都不到4.6%而已"},{"start":11935.58,"end":11946.706,"text":"最主要的是他另外那95%占他的總營業金額281億4.6%這個不是重點另外那95%才是重點而另外那些95%就我講的啊都推給經濟部啦現在我就舉這個我們民眾"},{"start":11965.007,"end":11987.063,"text":"權益受損被數條三兄弟剝削那麼這樣子的糾紛誰來協商呢竟然是經濟部那經濟部他的協商他也是推得蠻乾淨的他表面上來協商但是他說我"},{"start":11991.489,"end":11995.07,"text":"經濟部的協商是對自然人那對於法人啊他們他們是不協商的所以這很荒唐如果你去查一下這個薯條三兄弟他們的放款的我剛講的額度裡面"},{"start":12018.598,"end":12025.545,"text":"法人融資佔金額佔最大 佔超過一半 3560億個人的2800億然後經濟部一推 欸 超過一半的貪汪他不管其他他管的也是管得一塌糊塗"},{"start":12039.363,"end":12054.819,"text":"我是說債務協商的部分喔所以此時此刻本來融資放款這樣的金融公司本來就該我們金管會來管不是嗎你下面有銀行局你下面有檢察局你有這麼多的重要的這些專業"},{"start":12063.516,"end":12085.058,"text":"金融人才可以來管理然後我再講一下說結果這兩三個月來我一直問銀行局說你們到底啊我們九大公民銀行戶跟這些民營銀行總計我們銀行業到底放款的多少金額給鼠條山兄弟"},{"start":12086.55,"end":12105.042,"text":"你們來個拒絕答覆你們說啊這個根據銀行法第46條這個你們不能答覆結果彭主委我在問你們的同時我另外私下個別公股行庫去問我連民營行戶都去問我現在查出了總經理光公股行庫啊"},{"start":12112.779,"end":12130.585,"text":"放款給屬寮山兄弟總金額4854億而且你們還另外額度總額是8921億欸他沒有錢拿滿啦他拿了大概5成路然後他的借款利息多少1.7481.74的利率"},{"start":12141.994,"end":12166.533,"text":"那個主委你認為這有道理嗎我們銀行業貸款給有房子擔保的喔新青安貸款1.77這已經算低了然後軍公教信用貸款也是房屋有抵押的喔2.53貸款給鼠條山兄弟的逼"},{"start":12173.74,"end":12180.943,"text":"這兩大政府重要政策要優惠的方向還要踢還要你借給他1.7%結果他轉手借給需要的民眾他借18%這對嗎如果我們銀行體系尤其公營行庫"},{"start":12196.977,"end":12220.772,"text":"有這四五千億的資金來借給薯條三兄弟那乾脆這些金額直接借給需要的民眾就好啦幹嘛這個注定公司呢不是這樣嗎注定公司吸我們借款需求大眾們吸他們的血收他們的高利貸、高額約金、高手續費"},{"start":12227.39,"end":12250.269,"text":"吸他們的血這是多可惡的事情結果金管會一推四五六通通不管連萬個金額都不能問很奇怪我覺得光這一點就應該好好整頓銀行局這個局長是誰你好好查一下既然你上來了你可以重新任命就站你後面那一位嗎"},{"start":12256.052,"end":12262.498,"text":"啊 抱歉 我不知道他要來我 我 那個主委你看著辦那麼這等於變相的對 鼠條三兄弟 我用四個字形容銀行局變相的助紂為虐不是嗎 你們默許"},{"start":12281.904,"end":12306.169,"text":"銀行尤其是公營航庫九大公營航庫放五千億的放款給鼠寮三兄弟讓他們去維二不是這樣嗎那另外抱歉侯主席我再簡單因為新竹衛這個我再多個兩分鐘我跟他講一下說ETF"},{"start":12309.045,"end":12323.137,"text":"你們有稍微注意到ETF這個很好但是這個ETF齁我認為首先要糾正的就是關於他們的名稱啦他們名稱都自稱"},{"start":12325.058,"end":12340.968,"text":"高股息、高獲利、高收益甚至把臺灣價值加進去把巴菲特這些名人都拿來當他們廣告的用語最主要他們現在竟然還大剌剌的透過"},{"start":12342.85,"end":12356.04,"text":"主流的電視新聞播這些廣告這些假借新聞來欺騙用新聞報導新聞的報導的方式說靠ETF月賺20萬說秒進帳六位數然後買這個新聞報導ETF是買ETF大賺說沒有工作但是一個月有11萬8千元的股息"},{"start":12371.001,"end":12399.855,"text":"沒工作喔還特定說那這個為什麼說他買了ETF00919買00929的也不錯每次配息啊股息0.13元算每個月可領195,000元這公開大大大的債我們主流電視媒體以新聞報導的方式所以我認為主委你認為這些是不是該管現在的管理只憑他們"},{"start":12401.881,"end":12418.636,"text":"這些投信投估公會他們公會去自律這個自律一點效果都沒有自律完全沒有罰則你罰他他都可能不怕了更何況沒有罰則不是嗎沒有罰則那說一說用勸導的就對了道德勸說就對天啊所以那個"},{"start":12427.648,"end":12439.513,"text":"是不是主委你簡單答覆一下好嗎報告委員剛剛的是他們自立規範是有罰則啦剛剛就是有關融資公司的部分有些地方我們再跟委員再報告謝謝"},{"start":12441.809,"end":12445.211,"text":"有關公司的訊息內容再跟委員報告"},{"start":12463.303,"end":12485.372,"text":"這跟我看到你過去的著作你的一些言論當然你那時候是對壽險講的啦怎麼奇怪這個鬆緊度差這麼多我希望你能夠同一個標準很好你對壽險業的看法很好請你先移轉你這個關注力以及你的專業那麼先移轉到"},{"start":12488.083,"end":12499.326,"text":"董事公司、薯條三兄弟跟這些投信投股他們所發行的ETF可不可以過來關注 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝時間到沒關係啦 那個新來的要謙遜一下謝謝謝謝現在的訪問是楊瓊英 楊委員"},{"start":12517.1,"end":12517.281,"text":"養育委員"},{"start":12527.06,"end":12540.364,"text":"2023年8月份我們看到比特幣跟虛擬通貨的發展協會他們去主辦了一個臺灣區塊鏈的產業地圖他們也做了關鍵報告這個在當中我們看到國內超過有200家區塊鏈的企業他從事的這些的業務項目以及他的企業概況"},{"start":12553.849,"end":12568.826,"text":"這個部分我們看到有將近七成的這個部分是在過去五年相關公司有七成是在過去五年就已經成立那換句話說是越來越多的虛擬資產業它會跟金管會你們這邊來申請洗錢防治的這個聲明"},{"start":12573.792,"end":12594.145,"text":"那講了這個背景主要也就是說顯示我國的虛擬資產是正在蓬勃發展有在成長而且它發展的速度似乎比原先我們所預估的還要速度加快你認同嗎它的速度是加快的你認同嗎確實發展很快"},{"start":12595.286,"end":12610.776,"text":"您也認同是很快喔那所以包括9月因為之前的主委有說是在9月份的時候呢虛擬資產專法要出來但是我剛剛聽到同仁問你的時候呢您是說什麼時候會出來"},{"start":12612.623,"end":12638.589,"text":"跟委員報告是說因為我們現在針對虛擬專法我們現在是正在一個專案委託研究案那9月應該是你剛剛說的是9月份才要草案出來9月是那個研究報告才研究報告那怎麼跟上一任的主委差距這麼大呢他是說9月份的時候專法會出來應該是專法的研究報告你後面再給他括號一個加速一個研究報告"},{"start":12641.163,"end":12659.813,"text":"請教如果依照你剛剛的回答是9月份才專法的研究報告那換句話說要等到明年喔是的那如果依照你的繳呈是9月份專法的研究報告出來什麼時候才會送出來呢"},{"start":12661.643,"end":12682.99,"text":"這個預計就是9月份的話那我們的研究報告出來我們會緊隆密鼓來開始進行你的緊隆密鼓是什麼時候會出來呢就剛剛的可能最快是明年明年什麼時候呢明年的話就要看那個整個立法的精神因為這個全新的法案所以我們要可能要花點時間要評估一下你有沒有KPI出來了現在有沒有"},{"start":12685.054,"end":12693.06,"text":"這個這麼重要我相信不管誰當主委那這個對目前臺灣社會你剛剛也說了是腳步加快"},{"start":12694.417,"end":12716.733,"text":"那這樣情況我們如果拖那麼久那怎麼辦呢民眾怎麼辦呢對我們收到這個專案以後這個報告以後我們會盡速來處理啦你所謂的盡速本身要請教你總是做了一件事情你已經ING進行事當中你絕對有你的預估碼你的KPI碼如果依照主委您剛才說的我們再重複"},{"start":12718.549,"end":12745.105,"text":"9月你們才會將專法的研究報告出來是不是是的那請問那你的儘快什麼時候專法會出來明年上半年明年上半年注意可能你這個角度這個這個角度可能要要加速對我們如果能夠快我們就盡量因為這個社會有這個期待有沒有信心"},{"start":12748.787,"end":12766.776,"text":"因為之前講的是9月份專法要出來那你現在5月啊那你現在是說要讓明年的上半年這差距要幾年呢怎麼會差那麼多應該是要速度更快啊因為目前全世界都在看啊都也在應對啊"},{"start":12769.333,"end":12795.13,"text":"這個9月時程應該是是應該只是報告啦確實對就是剛剛可能這部分我們明年的話我們會等於說我們現在剛剛跟我們報告就是說我們預估在是我們盡快來處理大概明年上半年因為這個主要整合到比較比較多的我們過去比較不熟悉的業態本席之所以願意給你那麼多的時間說明我也希望不正確的訊息也不要讓讓這個民眾來模糊"},{"start":12798.112,"end":12816.393,"text":"但是也的確有差距如果依照你的規劃那大概會差一年所以本席也具體建議因為目前的社會非常的需要你們在盡可能的範圍怎麼樣可以去縮短時間所以是不是應該要專案去管控"},{"start":12817.546,"end":12841.997,"text":"我們所有案子都會這麼做是不是專案管控是不是對我們都會這麼做時間如果可以那麼是不是應該成如你說的盡快是不是可以可不可以可以你們再去盤點盤點你們的時程再順便資料給本席因為包括了你們我們很關心的也就是先買後付搬案"},{"start":12845.742,"end":12861.047,"text":"那在這樣的情況之下呢要讓打擊、詐騙啊不會因為換人而有所調整有沒有信心剛剛本期在司法委員會我也給新任的部長講"},{"start":12863.329,"end":12877.426,"text":"這個問題越打越糟打擾司法你們終於好不容易送到立法院要盡快排成來討論各個委員不分藍綠白因為現在的民眾很恐慌電話到底要不要聽"},{"start":12879.169,"end":12895.74,"text":"簡訊要不要看哪一個真的哪一個假的真的不是真的假的不是假的假的又是真的真的又是假的這個民眾真的真的是很緊張你有沒有認知到這個問題有我們都非常重視這個問題我們也聯合各相關部會我們都有"},{"start":12896.906,"end":12917.451,"text":"定期密集的在討論這件事情定期密集本期給你一個背景2023年刷卡網購刷卡達到32.4億2022年是1.47倍史上最高在這樣的情況之下也有喔它這個佔比喔是佔在倒刷的部分98.3"},{"start":12919.591,"end":12942.395,"text":"所以這個數字告訴你我們要找他們去防堵有的人甚至可以用釣魚簡訊要去點擊要詐騙這個卡那連百貨公司都受害都綁在一起所以在這樣的情況之下用APP來綁卡盜刷那你們有什麼方案這麼嚴重啊怎麼辦"},{"start":12947.335,"end":12972.451,"text":"我們請銀行局來針對那個銀行那個倒刷的部分來好請說明一下好是 報告委員尤其是針對那個APP綁卡倒刷的這個問題的話主要都是百貨公司的賣或者是賣場的APP啦你怎麼應對那這一塊的話現在銀行公會已經在研議了就是也是要透過這個APP就是這個商店然後我們會跟那個社會面這麼嚴肅喔"},{"start":12975.234,"end":13003.733,"text":"腳步加快好不好我們力量公會加油好不好數字一直在增加欸那我們緩不及急民眾太可憐了好不好速度加快演繹方案給本席我一個議題給主委主委我們說的2026年非現金支付交易的比要達到80億交易金額要達到10兆這個是我們的目標有沒有改變"},{"start":13005.05,"end":13005.316,"text":"有沒有改變"},{"start":13007.349,"end":13034.599,"text":"報告委員還是按照這樣子的目標會達到嗎 有沒有信心因為我告訴你104年到110年你提出的電子化支付比例是5年倍增2023年非現金的部分它的比數成長50%所以這是迫切需要的交易金額是6兆所以在這樣的情況之下我們看到今年第一季非現金交易的比數18.97"},{"start":13037.336,"end":13058.581,"text":"一筆他交易的金額將近兩兆所以在這樣的情況之下我們看到跟去年同一季的比他是增加了24.6%金額也達到將近要15%光光一季就是如此所以主委剛剛局長講的也是依照這個這個數字要達成成功是不是是不是 局長"},{"start":13066.556,"end":13091.864,"text":"是不是貨源是交易金額2026年是10兆那麼非先進的部分是81筆是不是是有沒有信心有市場會協助你消費者也協助你本期講的這個信心也就是政府部門的腳步一定要跟上市場的需求好不好是好不好可以謝謝"},{"start":13099.027,"end":13114.843,"text":"謝謝楊委員那因為現在已經12點了那大家就是在現場就可以先用餐一邊用餐主委可能就比較不方便了你辛苦一下這邊大家都繼續質詢這樣到會議結束下一位請黃國昌黃委員質詢"},{"start":13130.563,"end":13134.446,"text":"首先恭喜您榮任金管會的主委拉希德總統在5209指引說的時候有提到針對於物價、房價、貧富差距的問題要逐段的改善"},{"start":13156.735,"end":13173.335,"text":"那如果我們談改善的話就必須要誠實面對我們現在的狀況那我相信不管是透過國泰房地產指數還是信譽房價指數我上面寫的base line是從2016年開始"},{"start":13174.523,"end":13203.169,"text":"一直到2024年的Q1可以很清楚地看得出來那個攀升的幅度是非常驚人的當然我們在看房價指數的時候不能只看房價指數所以我們如果把房價指數跟薪資的成長率以及我們GDP的成長率一起放進來看的話除了可以很清楚地看到薪資的成長率如果我們以2016年當作Baseline的話"},{"start":13204.089,"end":13222.058,"text":"到2023年是漲了15%我們的GDP漲了34%再往上我們的房價指數漲了大概51%因此年輕的世代他們所在面臨的"},{"start":13223.098,"end":13250.213,"text":"他們的薪資永遠沒有辦法追上房價升高的速度這個是一個客觀存在的事實那不是只是一個主觀的感受當然當我們在討論房價所則比的時候通常政府有兩個政策工具一個是稅制稅制的部分可能跟財政部會比較有關係但是另外一個就是金融政策也就是說金管會在有關於規範"},{"start":13251.934,"end":13267.58,"text":"我們的金融機構在放款的時候它是一個非常重要的政策調控工具那面對這樣子的狀況主委在善用金管會所擁有的政策工具的時候您有沒有什麼樣的想法這點可不可以容許我請行局來幫我回答這問題可以嗎"},{"start":13275.819,"end":13298.439,"text":"可是你是主委啊對當然就是這部分就我所知就是銀行我們在針對這個不通產放款有一定的比例的限制有一些政策性上面的鼓勵這個都是有助於在比如說幫助年輕人在做放款的時候有些政策我想這部分我們能夠幫助到年輕人我們會持續來推動"},{"start":13300.1,"end":13313.409,"text":"還有就是有關不要過度集中於在某個地方我想這個相關的規定也有一些規範不好意思時間的關係我必須要插一下我的理解是主委您是保險的專家"},{"start":13314.827,"end":13331.916,"text":"不敢那可能在銀行端的部分未來也在您主委的範圍之內那因為您剛上任主委我相信有必要要給您一定的時間去全盤的思考跟規劃怎麼樣達成新政府內閣"},{"start":13333.397,"end":13350.989,"text":"所在總統就職演說的時候講得很清楚房價的問題必須要改善那我以下就代主委看一下過去發生的狀況在2020年的時候央行已經警告我們的不動產貸款"},{"start":13353.771,"end":13377.325,"text":"佔整個金融機構放款的比例35.8%在2020年的時候事實上已經太高了因為如果過多的銀行貸款的融資是跑到有關於不動產建築業的貸款的話那事實上它有可能會推升整個房價不斷的上升因為我們希望"},{"start":13378.467,"end":13387.969,"text":"銀行的資金是拿來促進實體經濟而不是拿來炒房的我相信這樣子的一個政策目標主委您應該是認同的吧"},{"start":13388.975,"end":13408.821,"text":"當然居住這裡你再試好但問題是雖然央行在2020年就已經發出警訊了但事實上情況好像沒有變好越來越嚴重到2024年1月的時候其實有關於不動產的放款已經到銀行整個融資的爬升到37.44%了也就是情況比2020年的時候還要惡化"},{"start":13414.583,"end":13429.711,"text":"那這個會牽涉到說具體的數字我相信銀行局的同仁或金管會的同仁可以幫你整理得很好你實際上面來看一看我們如果只focus在銀行建築業的貸款的話你會發現從2016年的1兆6161億到2018年的1兆7825億平均每個月增加62億"},{"start":13442.017,"end":13466.391,"text":"但是從2018年8月以後到去年年底的時候平均每月增加已經到了233億那個攀升的速度相當相當的驚人那如果我們再進一步擴大地看不是只有銀行建築的貸款而是到整個銀行房地產的放款餘額的話那個數字更是驚人"},{"start":13467.512,"end":13488,"text":"更是驚人啊增加了從2018年到去年年底的時候增加了4.586億也就是說非常多銀行的融資跑到了不動產市場當中那推高了整個房價也正是因為啊這個樣子事實上在銀行法72條之2"},{"start":13489.801,"end":13509.714,"text":"我們規範商業銀行辦理住宅以及企業放款的總額不可以超過他所收存款以及金融債券發行額的百分之三十我相信這個主委你很清楚但是過去的金管會他事實上在這個百分之三十的限額他又開了一個新的後門"},{"start":13510.655,"end":13538.887,"text":"又開了一個新的後門剛剛我在做比較的時候為什麼以2018年來當作一個切分的時間點是有它的道理在的那針對這樣子的一個政策針對這樣子的一個政策監管會做了這樣子的事情所產生實際的效果剛剛主委應該可以看得出來它的效果是很劇烈的所以上次這個我都跳不過去了因為時間到了我只想最後一件事"},{"start":13540.248,"end":13567.076,"text":"因此上次我在跟央行總裁也是在財政委員會進行質詢的時候我有提醒央行總裁這樣子的事情他也認同說當房價不斷飆升的時候不動產放款的比例現在我不是講絕對值喔連比例本身都在不斷的攀升的時候在這樣的情況之下我們的金管會還幫不動產的放款開了後門開了後門去"},{"start":13570.915,"end":13589.562,"text":"迴避掉銀行法72條之二的規定這件事情本身恐怕有需要再思考的必要因此我那時候建議央行的總裁這件事情可能在配合他們整體性的"},{"start":13590.562,"end":13602.812,"text":"貨幣的政策到你們金管會在規範有關於不動產放款的融資銀行商業大款的融資的規範上面可能要找金管會談一談您上任了以後跟總裁見過面了嗎"},{"start":13607.026,"end":13621.571,"text":"在應該在之前見過上任還沒有上任以後還沒有嘛那我希望說齁主任能夠關注這個問題沒有問題您剛上任的時候該給您的時間跟空間我相信每一位關心不同議題的委員都會願意"},{"start":13623.892,"end":13642.555,"text":"給您這樣的事件那但是這件事情是以現在進行式非常快速而且惡化的在發生我要拜託主委一定要特別關注這樣的事情因為金管會手上其實對於抑制房價不斷的攀升是有不錯"},{"start":13643.396,"end":13667.226,"text":"的政策工具那希望您就任金管或主委以後能夠在這些政策的調整上協助我們的新政府實現居住正義的價值謝謝這樣可以嗎可以可以這樣這個非常非常緊張好我希望下次在跟您見面的時候我們今天的主題的討論就會再更深一步了好謝謝謝謝王委員謝謝總經理謝謝"},{"start":13675.982,"end":13695.078,"text":"下一位質詢請葛如君葛委員謝謝主席 有請金管會彭金隆主委備詢林鵬主委"},{"start":13698.82,"end":13721.101,"text":"各位好主委您好今天特別到財委會是想要確認在新主委的領導之下金管會對於前任這個主委的政策相關態度以及後續的做法金管會其實早就體察民意了解到國人對於多元投資商品的需求所以在113年度也就是今年的施政計畫當中有提到"},{"start":13722.021,"end":13749.303,"text":"開放市格銀行正對高資產客群理財需求提供多元化金融商品擴大金融業務範疇開放證券期貨多元商品及投資管道滿足多元化商品需求考量目前的這個市場的狀況以及我們的這個金融的現況請問一下主委您是否同意遵照黃錢主委的路線捍衛民眾對於投資商品多元選擇的權益"},{"start":13751.064,"end":13765.234,"text":"我想提供我們市場上需要的產品安全的產品一直都是金管會努力的目標很好 因為您剛剛也表示不要過度集中那我們就要來問您另外一元就是另外一種Coin"},{"start":13766.155,"end":13791.328,"text":"叫比特元我們民間叫做比特幣比特幣ETF的負委託今年1月10號美國證券交易委員會SEC宣布批准比特幣現貨的ETF交易一共有11檔比特幣ETF申請全數獲得通過但是遺憾的是國內券商在1月23號發出公告表示收到金管會一紙通知而且"},{"start":13792.088,"end":13819.95,"text":"不是非常的明確說是什麼理由只能透過附委託賣出連結虛擬貨幣現貨以及期貨相關的商品不可以新增委託買進受到影響的由美國及香港市場約21檔相關的ETF到現在可能還會越來越多我們明白目前國內法規尚不允許我們自己的金控公司、金融公司推出自己的比特幣ETF在台上市但是禁止國內的民眾以"},{"start":13821.531,"end":13835.787,"text":"金管會鼓勵的付委託方式來購買不可以購買美國的比特幣現貨的ETF確實在投資界引起了不小的反彈那想請教一下這個我們在3月4號"},{"start":13836.528,"end":13865.068,"text":"曾經質詢過黃錢主委有表示當時他表示要求券商公會研議是否開放付委託交易加密貨幣尤其比特幣現貨的ETF如果有意則需要在4月底前提出配套方案甚至有告訴我們呢最好的消息有可能最快會在4月底出現我想請問一下主委據悉券商公會已經在4月中向金管會提出配套方案請問目前的審議進度如何可否簡要說明大概什麼時候我們會有一個明確的結論"},{"start":13866.289,"end":13886.095,"text":"謝謝委員就是我們確實那個券商工會已經在4月24號提出了他們的建議方案過來他們主要參考說現在國際上並不是所有都全面開放比如說韓國跟日本就沒開放但新加坡然後還有像香港他是有開放的就是說這部分券商工會的建議是這樣他說建議開放專業投資人購買虛擬資產ETF且出資買賣是應簽據風險預告書"},{"start":13892.297,"end":13911.164,"text":"有限定的開放可能會往這個方向走那請問一下投信公會是不是有引進這樣子的一個國外既有的加密貨幣ETF基金向金管會提出或者有沒有其他的金控已經在跟你們講說他們也想要推出自己的比特幣的ETF"},{"start":13913.126,"end":13941.3,"text":"那個委員可不可以允許我們請問局長做更詳細的說明可以嗎好時間不是很多但是可以代藥跟委員報告那個投信的部分因為有價證金比特幣不是有價證金所以那一部分有沒有人提有沒有國內的業者跟你們提出想要開放想要推出這樣的產品有這樣的提出來有嗎那我想這個希望我們可以持續的守護擁護多元的方針畢竟這是你們的施政報告提出來"},{"start":13942.02,"end":13962.807,"text":"那這一次金管會業務報告也提到了6月底前將公布金融業運用AI指引請問主委指引所涵蓋的面向跟大致的內容能不能讓我們大概知道一下我可不可以請我們那個同仁過來跟您做一個時間稍微暫停一下如果可以讓他移動一下"},{"start":13964.923,"end":13988.361,"text":"跟委員報告我們那個AI指引的部分目前是包含像是希望在製理面的部分希望金融機構至少在針對這個AI系統要他可能要在設計或者是研發甚至是要在有這個模型的時候都必須要先經過公司有一個指定的主管那另外就是針對這個數據的蒐集可能也必須要注意到公平性"},{"start":13988.901,"end":14009.274,"text":"還有就是要以人為本這樣子希望能夠連結到產業的真實面尤其針對伺服器接地等等的一些規範要有一些彈性畢竟大語言模型生成是AI某種程度來說是非常非常國際化的如果我們只限縮在本地很可能會讓我們的金融業失去競爭力"},{"start":14010.214,"end":14032.785,"text":"最後還是再次提醒諸位高達84%的臺灣人有投資習慣金管會禁止付委託購買反而反而會讓更多想買美國比特幣ETF的民眾沒有辦法用金管會鼓勵民眾合法使用付委託的方式來購買比特幣的現貨ETF反而變成要翻牆了直接"},{"start":14033.325,"end":14057.032,"text":"透過海外券商而很多海外券商也被你們名列說是在臺灣不合法如實以來政府將更難以掌握民眾對於美國比特幣ETF的投資情形國內券商則少了手續費的收入民眾如果與國外券商發生投資糾紛還要自行承擔風險甚至可能不勝掉入詐騙的陷阱毫無保障這對於政府"},{"start":14057.872,"end":14084.021,"text":"國內金融的業者和民眾來說可以說三書或者多書我就再次的來跟您分享美國比特幣ETF與其他傳統金融商品其實沒有差別這已經是經過美國的法院所認定的美國SEC也都同意推出了每一位進入投資市場的民眾本來就應該要基本的投資判斷能力希望金管費可以真正的去守護民眾的"},{"start":14084.881,"end":14110.627,"text":"多元的這樣子的一個方向讓大家有更多的商品選擇資訊公開的透明讓大家都能夠接受投資商品的價格波動不然呢讓大家都只能選擇本地的商品我們的ETF呢講了很多數字講了很多臺灣價值結果到現在價格也還沒回去結果呢明明在美國已經可以合法購買的東西我們卻禁止他用付委託方式購買禁止付委託不是最好的做法"},{"start":14111.027,"end":14120.339,"text":"金管會應該保障民眾以負委託的方式投資國外虛擬貨幣尤其比特幣現貨ETF的權益謝謝謝謝委員執政謝謝好 謝謝下一位執行請陳玉珍陳委員"},{"start":14140.29,"end":14164.619,"text":"有請這個彭主委謝謝請彭主委陳委員好主委早您是5月20號上任是的那昨天有看到立法院的行刑嗎有有什麼想法有看轉播有有什麼想法當然大家辛苦了"},{"start":14166.124,"end":14167.245,"text":"請問您本身有沒有經歷過詐騙?"},{"start":14183.055,"end":14203.517,"text":"我比較幸運還沒有雖然有騙沒成功所以你有被騙被詐騙集團收到簡訊啊這些也是有啦只是沒有被騙成但是你也經歷過詐騙這個事情對嘛有沒有人利用過你的頭像啊做什麼投資啊方面的這一種據我所知目前還沒有真的喔"},{"start":14203.937,"end":14225.642,"text":"那可能還不知道你算是也是可能是人才啦像我完全不懂得投資的但是我自己本身就經歷過我的頭像被放在什麼那種那個什麼投資的那個連我自己都非常驚訝所以而且本期常常接到很多的這個陳情非常非常多不只是金門地區包括臺灣這邊也一樣就是"},{"start":14229.723,"end":14256.13,"text":"各個林寧城都有我的家人各方面詐騙不管是網路或者是投資這一種非常的多所以我想請問因為我們在觀察這個詐騙當中當然很多最後要騙錢最後都是要經過一個金流所以金流就是說錢可能就要轉帳比如說他說這個你的車子沒有繳費要按進去用什麼信用卡用什麼點點點點點點就把你的資料騙走"},{"start":14257.95,"end":14259.411,"text":"有限公司、臺灣集中保險有限公司、臺灣集中保險有限公司、臺灣集中保險"},{"start":14274.665,"end":14301.534,"text":"你們這個報告裡對於詐騙你們是說有跟這個網路平台業者溝通113年6月底前配合完成系統調整落實投資廣告實名制對吧意思就是說以後任何人的頭像包括彭主委您的那個如果那個要上線的話比如說某家他的頭像要做這個投資這個上線的話就必須用實名制對吧是 這我們投信投過法70條之1裡面的規定"},{"start":14303.311,"end":14322.446,"text":"本來就有的是嗎?就是我們為了這個東西新訂的規定為了這個事情新加了一個防範措施所以是在6月 等於是下個月底前就會完成了?那是因為我們跟那個Meta的部分他承諾就是說他會在6月以前會改善"},{"start":14323.277,"end":14348.752,"text":"改善就是為了完成的意思是嗎?那如果他沒有完成呢?因為你這樣宣示以後就表示說7月1號以後如果在臉書上看到彭金隆說跟大家說這個投資ABCDE那這個東西就不會是假的啦我們期待是這樣一個狀況那你的意思是說反面來想說他有實名制嘛所以我在臉書看到那個就不會假的嘛那如果平台業者沒有做好勒?"},{"start":14349.632,"end":14363.719,"text":"有救責的機制嗎?有有,投信投顧法應該130...就是這個業者平台業者平台業者有沒有救責的機制呢?有,那其實我們在剛剛報告的投信投顧法裡面就有這樣的罰則再來我們接下來打詐專法裡面就會對平台業者苛責"},{"start":14366.98,"end":14385.065,"text":"打砸專法已經過來了嗎?現在已經送到大院了已經送過來喔?那我們這個要盡快的審議喔?是的那另外一個這個帳戶的部分喔我也想到第三方支付,您知道那個您不知道對中國大陸有沒有了解喔?您知道大陸這個就是這個支付喔就是行動支付非常非常方便,您知道嗎?知道"},{"start":14386.065,"end":14406.193,"text":"微信、支付寶,您知道嗎?那為什麼我們國內臺澎金馬地區這種行動支付的部分非常不方便呢?這可能是不是有地區別的差別?為什麼?你的親身體驗、你的認知,你身為金融行政委員認知的?"},{"start":14407.526,"end":14407.546,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":14422.506,"end":14423.166,"text":"會不會有具體作為?"},{"start":14443.387,"end":14469.406,"text":"報告委員因為我們剛剛有跟其他委員也有報告提到就是說我們有定一個非現金支付的一個比率那這個比率不是只有光是數字的達成然後我們也有擬了一些工作的計畫那裡面其實有一個工作計畫就是針對就是說比如說一些比較傳統的市級或者是比較需要發展特約商店也就是這個商店"},{"start":14470.266,"end":14483.66,"text":"他們本來習慣用現金的然後可以讓他們慢慢轉成用電子支付的方式那也有相當的一些鼓勵措施我想這個部分可能也要配合比如說這個在商圈配合經濟部這個也要做相關的這個部分可能下去也應該當作一個業務的重點另外一個來我剛剛提到詐騙一個很重要我們說金流嘛這個斷點的問題"},{"start":14492.188,"end":14496.089,"text":"我發現這個各個金融機構事實上在做這個詐騙的、主詐的、匯錢的部分做得算還是不錯啦那一些經驗就是說他們都會去勸這些要匯很多錢或怎麼樣跟他說可能是詐騙所以這個部分我建議說這個部分對各個機構如果有做這個部分要鼓勵鼓勵以外給獎勵"},{"start":14512.455,"end":14527.911,"text":"這是蠻重要的但是呢我有一個經驗就是說但是這個開戶方面就是說如果發現這個是詐騙集團的這個戶頭我覺得你們在這個開戶方面各方面包括後續有沒有考慮說像我跟你講這個道路的政策它是怎麼樣"},{"start":14529.052,"end":14547.222,"text":"開戶當然也不容易有很多種證件我們現在是用雙證件最少但是如果說這個人他的戶頭曾經被當作是詐騙被詐騙集團使用這個人就不能再開戶我們有沒有打算怎麼樣做比較嚴格的措施來避免這個詐騙集團實在太過猖獗還有包括"},{"start":14552.45,"end":14565.507,"text":"剛剛委員講的沒錯就是我們像我們現在的銀行做的臨櫃關懷剛剛那個主張那個是做得不錯有時候過道常常被這個臨櫃的長者有時候還會罵就被關切是是是這個剛剛就講說賬戶問題賬戶的管理其實我們現在有很多很多的機制在處理中"},{"start":14570.413,"end":14580.641,"text":"來 峻起講可是因為我覺得這個應該是做得非常不夠不然不會詐騙集團還透過銀行的帳戶或是什麼信用卡這樣子還這麼的猖獗這個金流你們事實上是主詐裡面最重要的一環因為錢都要從你們這邊進啊出啊 對不對是"},{"start":14588.968,"end":14616.461,"text":"所以呢具體有沒有什麼作為我們現在比如說列入警司帳戶你接下來可能也沒辦法再開戶啦剛剛也有類似的機制啦那我們還有像個比如說境內境外的那個帳戶的管制其實我們現在都有跟聯合內政部跟警政署那邊做蠻多的這樣那個努力我聽到的具體的作為就是說各個部位是各行其政沒有做很好的整合現在可能會所以才會造成這個現在我們就在一直強化這一點"},{"start":14617.898,"end":14642.899,"text":"那具體的措施那個麻煩你給我一個報告包括我剛說的行動支付的部分然後這個詐騙的這個打詐的具體措施因為這個包括你剛有說這個投資這個廣告這個平台Meta這個部分的要實名制的這個部分謝謝這沒問題那這個恭喜您上任那我看到媒體有幫你這個整理好一些各種挑戰不過還是希望您去過金門嗎"},{"start":14644,"end":14646.763,"text":"金門銀行局公布的113年3月底的金融分支機構的加速帶增價地區,全國有83個鄉鎮,金門就有"},{"start":14665.604,"end":14679.279,"text":"五加一鄉鎮有三個鄉鎮還是金融機構的分支機構加速人袋增加包括金鈴鄉、金沙鎮跟獵蟻鄉若有一半以上的鄉鎮金融機構還是不足"},{"start":14680.06,"end":14680.18,"text":"實行進度如何?"},{"start":14700.86,"end":14721.196,"text":"其實這是我們一直努力的目標啦希望就是說因為普惠金融裡面講金融是基本的權利啦那我們盡量再怎麼樣鼓勵這個業者去把我們的普惠的覆蓋率能夠做到全覆蓋那是用鼓勵的嘛對因為現在這個確實我們會透過一些有效的措施來增進這件事情"},{"start":14721.596,"end":14748.937,"text":"什麼叫有效的措施你用鼓勵的比如說銀行業人他可能不願意去設啊或者是尤其是像有可能成本上考量來講成本上考量來講的確是不划算我們相信人少的地方嘛但是您知道金融機構它不是只有盈利的那個不是只是盈利事業有排他性也有一種這個而且它是這個贏權是公共賦予的有一定的社會性嘛也是特許行業嘛所以這個部分是不是有沒有什麼預期要達成的目標呢"},{"start":14750.418,"end":14772.871,"text":"預期要達成的目標我要具體的我要具體的這個部分我想先目標我們該一致的我想問一下局長有沒有什麼具體的不好意思謝謝你不知道你不知道是不是來沒關係喔因為我時間到你不知道也剛上任了所以剛剛針對本席所詢問那三個議題因為您剛上任大概給你一個月的時間好不好"},{"start":14773.251,"end":14773.391,"text":"謝謝主委謝謝陳委員"},{"start":14804.952,"end":14807.536,"text":"下一位請林楚英林委員質詢謝主席主席有請彭主委請彭主委"},{"start":14821.482,"end":14835.535,"text":"主委好你好主委好我知道今天才第二天上任如果等一下本席所詢問的一些事情那麼您在業務的部分還沒有完全熟悉的話可以讓其他出席的我們包括其他的局處的首長來協助非常謝謝"},{"start":14839.198,"end":14866.531,"text":"那麼我想其實這個金管會對於金融秩序的監理過去其實一直都是非常重要的那我其實比較關注的當然今天我就來先講銀行這個貸款的部分前面其實也有聽到一些委員在關心當然就是有關於這個我們融資公司到底要不要納作金管會來管理但是最近許多的新聞事件頻傳啦銀行利用應該是說民眾"},{"start":14867.972,"end":14892.625,"text":"或者是法人用不動產來跟銀行借款的時候為什麼會出現超貸的情況那麼像這些東西都是不勝美舉包括是不是因為原因就出在求援兼裁判因為今天時間有限我就只是把這些新聞的標題拿出來我不多做細數但是會不會其實銀行的貸款它就是有關係你就安心貸如果沒關係就好難貸"},{"start":14893.866,"end":14918.718,"text":"我們其實都會發現說如果今天我拿你的資產去貸款的時候有人老屋可以可能50年以上的老屋可以貸個八成以上甚至於九成還可以貸到裝潢費有些人呢他甚至於是即使房子在那裡同樣的條件他會貸不出來甚至於加上他的年紀如果不符合銀行的潛規則比如75、85"},{"start":14923.166,"end":14940.794,"text":"他連貸的能力都沒有那麼這個會不會是一種所謂求援兼裁判也就是銀行自己決定了今天來貸的人到底他的關係如何那我想請問的就是如何我們讓一般真的他本身就有貸款能力的人不要"},{"start":14941.814,"end":14960.773,"text":"進入到所謂的融資公司進入吸血的地獄我不知道主委知不知道其實內政委員會今天在審查的有一個法案是叫做不動產估價師法的修正今天這個剛剛可能已經會議結束但今天抱歉抱歉沒有掌握到好沒有問題來看下一張"},{"start":14963.134,"end":14975.032,"text":"就是我希望主委能夠關注這個事情就是我們都知道銀行在做融資的過程當中對於不動產他會有一些房屋條件的估價"},{"start":14976.021,"end":15002.057,"text":"但是如果你要避免有人因為有關係就安心貸沒關係就好難貸最後只好去找這個融資公司進入吸血地獄那麼是不是在這樣的審核過程當中銀行的審核必須要有所謂關鍵的第三人來確保受信的品質這個其實我在這裡其實已經過去的四年我不止一次的呼籲就是希望"},{"start":15002.597,"end":15005.699,"text":"金管會要重視這個部分幫我回到第一頁前面有人有關係借的到老一屋還可以短期念三代然後銀行內部也常常出現內鬼來炸彈那這些狀況"},{"start":15021.084,"end":15038.018,"text":"是不是可以透過公正的第三方來做處理呢 主委比如說讓銀行能夠有所謂不動產的估價師我會提到今天內政委員會的修法是因為希望透過修法讓不動產估價師的助理能夠有一個合理化的名份在那裡那麼銀行或是金融機構如果說"},{"start":15048.933,"end":15064.232,"text":"他沒有一個常駐的不動產估價師那麼至少可以有一個不動產估價師的助理那這個是不是一個解決銀行求援兼裁判要不超貸被發現"},{"start":15065.453,"end":15088.368,"text":"要不呢就是沒關係好難帶或者是他的條件不夠好但是也許未來的規劃上面有機會還是扶有還款能力的時候他不要進入融資公司的受害者進入吸血地獄我知道主委你有點子王之稱啦那某首題的提問有沒有可能評估或有沒有可能一個方向來做了解"},{"start":15089.569,"end":15114.512,"text":"就是委員您剛才說到的其實我覺得專業又透明的資訊絕對對交易安全是有很大的幫助那剛才也跟局長簡單討論一下未來我們可以來朝這個比如說一定金額以上我們看能不能跟這個比如說剛才講這些更更公正客觀的這個資訊團體來做一個做一個這個合作讓整個交易更更趨近於公平"},{"start":15114.952,"end":15133.649,"text":"好因為本席在過去幾年的質詢當中喔常常銀行不論是公股、行庫或者是我們這些金融機構都說啊有我們都有我們都有自己的評估我們都很專業但是只要高層一通電話又或者是今天看到來"},{"start":15135.307,"end":15153.286,"text":"借款的這個單位或者是這個個人他有比較好的背景那可能就有機會被上下棋手那像這個部分我也希望主委能夠真的承諾就是讓真的客觀公正的第三方在一定的案子當中能夠讓這個資訊更透明"},{"start":15154.807,"end":15179.38,"text":"那最後一點時間我們來看下一張就是本席也非常關注就是有關於這個票率的部分新主委我們都知道主委ESG你也非常的重視那到底如何來防範票率呢我手頭上現在是知道金管會跟環境部正在針對金融機構防範票率有出了一些指引但是我們都知道金融機構他到底有沒有辦法針對"},{"start":15181.641,"end":15205.289,"text":"來進行融資的單位他所融資的項目是真率還是假率又或者是票率那這個過程當中雖然有這個指引但是指引的方向都只是一個目標性有沒有可能有更具體的方向而這個方向能夠讓金融機構跟他的所謂往來的企業能夠有一個更合理的方式而不是說指引只是一種感覺"},{"start":15207.95,"end":15225.632,"text":"沒有錯 未來對永續或綠色大家都非常的關注我們站在監理機關對這個東西也是非常的注意所以我們最近也有訂了一個規範我可以請我們的同仁處長來跟您回答好嗎 謝謝"},{"start":15228.378,"end":15252.791,"text":"委員跟您報告我們這個針對金融業的房票率的指引部分是針對金融業對外宣稱的時候那他可能有一些注意的事項那至於說像譬如說銀行他假設要就是接受他的客戶的時候其實他們會做相關的淨值治理那譬如說像現在有些銀行會發綠色的壽信或者是永續連結貸款那其實我們都有要求他們要遵守國際上面有一個"},{"start":15253.271,"end":15262.524,"text":"包含像是綠色授信的原則等等之類的那所以其實它自己內部會有一個審核的流程所以是可以盡量避免這種票率企業票率的狀況"},{"start":15263.786,"end":15291.79,"text":"主席我只最後一句話就是我希望這些規範是能夠符合國際上面的規章跟需求好嗎那其他更詳細的資料再請金管會提供給我辦公室好的謝謝可以沒有問題謝謝謝謝林柱英委員接著我們請鄭天才委員鄭天才鄭天才鄭天才不在邱志偉委員邱志偉邱志偉邱志偉不在洪孟凱委員洪孟凱洪孟凱洪孟凱不在吳春成委員"},{"start":15303.055,"end":15303.82,"text":"請彭主委我們請彭主委"},{"start":15308.311,"end":15323.798,"text":"主委好我是臺灣民眾黨的吳春成我在立法院大概開議2月1號以來我只有談一個單一話題就叫壯世代針對臺灣高齡化社會的一個問題這個問題臺灣高齡化過去高齡大家都覺得是衛福部的事情"},{"start":15336.184,"end":15359.451,"text":"大概80%的預算都擺在衛福部那其他部會都不重視有的話清庭點水而且都是配合衛福部但是我今天要跟這個因為部長你剛上任不要給你太大壓力讓你適應一下那所以呢主要是我要跟部長跟主委那個瞭解這一個前面我們已經"},{"start":15361.172,"end":15374.421,"text":"三個多月跟金管會所進行的一些討論的事情來跟你報告一下讓你明瞭首先就是這一個概念"},{"start":15377.17,"end":15392.611,"text":"臺灣往前30年最重要的是民主化現在民主已經沒有太大問題了不要再鬧了那往後30年最重要的就是人口學的問題高齡化、少子化這個問題沒有解決好所有事情都白做了"},{"start":15395.351,"end":15401.575,"text":"那個主委看這個圖在1970年代我們人口長這個樣子年齡中位數19.3歲2040年人口圖長這個樣子年齡中位數52歲1970年65歲以上占人口2.9%2040年占30.1%"},{"start":15414.302,"end":15431.717,"text":"10倍可以說是天翻地覆但是我非常驚訝的我發現我們所有的部會都停留在1970年代用1970年代這個想像圖在規劃我們的政策所有的政策都會出問題所以"},{"start":15435.663,"end":15450.153,"text":"每一個部會 這裡每一個部會都在歧視高齡像勞動部 有中高齡就業法我問部長說中高齡值幾歲他說45歲 我說這很遜色對不對 出國念書回來都已經40歲了工作幾年就輔導待退"},{"start":15457.494,"end":15471.341,"text":"所以所有的部門包括交通部包括教育部教育部高齡的預算只占教育部預算的0.2%文化部也是0.2%數位部幾乎各部會都把這一群人"},{"start":15472.601,"end":15492.246,"text":"當作沒有看見但是在這裡法說的問題都推給衛福部這一個我從金融的角度做這個四個象限圖從高資產跟高先進流可以把高利貸分成這四個象限"},{"start":15494.306,"end":15508.946,"text":"第二項現在這裡有高資產又高現金流的人現在這種人我想儘管會所謂的這個這個壯世代是指55家55家以上的人大概掌握臺灣三分之二的財富"},{"start":15510.267,"end":15512.269,"text":"因為收穫錢都被你們金管會把它凍結了"},{"start":15525.922,"end":15542.117,"text":"你們把他凍結了啊 讓他沒有用啊所以就沒有這個產業啊所以對於這一些呢 這個當然要鼓勵有錢、有現金的要鼓勵消費另外呢 有一種在第一項線這裡他有高資產他要遞現金"},{"start":15542.938,"end":15568.631,"text":"那這一錢都幾乎是監管會這邊要努力的目標這一錢怎麼倒流把它流出來另外一項勞動不斷活躍的最後才是衛福部因為這一些現在已經有800萬人壯士代55家以上有800萬人了而且都有選票高投票綠族群大家都知道臺灣除蓄力世界第一包括我們的保險我們的不動產全部都在壯士代手中"},{"start":15569.69,"end":15586.43,"text":"但是這一錢怎麼活化呢讓我們的整個經濟變成一個死水經濟就全部凍結在這裡經濟部位都沒有在發展大家都沒有在開發這一塊都把它適中理所當然的只要財務繼承這樣就好了對不對只要抽那個移產稅就好了OK"},{"start":15589.355,"end":15607.381,"text":"所以我推出了一個叫壯世代一個字改變一個世代欠缺一個那這一個如佛如圖我已經推動了三年然後現在進來國會裡面積極的推動基本上跟各部會都推動過了都幾乎都高度支持那也希望金管會能夠重視這一塊"},{"start":15608.741,"end":15629.879,"text":"那我在3月19號的總諮詢的時候跟陳建仁院長他承諾兩件事情要請金管會建立壯士代金融行動方案我在看你們的報告書裡面也有提到那在提醒這個當時是院長跟黃謙主委承諾我的東西所以要繼續承接下來"},{"start":15630.72,"end":15643.37,"text":"那透過比照綠色金融的方式來推動壯大金融行動方案還有上市櫃公司的高齡社會永續發展的這個路徑那沐上次的回應回給我的是這個"},{"start":15646.646,"end":15661.336,"text":"有正式公文回覆都說在規劃跟積極的準備中了而且是看起來蠻認真了這個高齡行動方案還有透過資金面、商品面、賠利面、生態系各個方面認真那也希望這個諸委能夠繼續督導"},{"start":15665.663,"end":15693.671,"text":"那共同的把這本來高齡化是一場陰法海嘯變成國家發展的動力那在這裡金管會扮演非常的動力的一部分那我現在正最近在讀一本書是我們臺灣金融研訓院的黃崇哲院長也在座剛剛去跟他打招呼他的理念跟這一個非常好他說這是我剛剛的標題說金融是穿越未來的時光機我覺得他是一個浪漫的人"},{"start":15694.611,"end":15707.51,"text":"但是的確很有道理時光機就是把未來的災難可以把它拉到現在來處理你現在不處理那個直線發展那個災難就必然發生所以這必須要透過金融的手段"},{"start":15711.235,"end":15739.172,"text":"也最後看到現在我在立法院成立壯時代政策及產業發展促進會有63個立委加入3個黨黨編都是我的副會長有200位專家學者加入大家非常不分黨派的一同來推動壯時代就在這個會場成立會所以就是未來在這個金融方面要拜託我們主委給我們多多的支持謝謝"},{"start":15741.628,"end":15746.971,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝我們吳村城委員謝謝接著我們請鍾嘉斌委員主席在場的委員先進列席政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生有請彭主委請到彭主委"},{"start":15771.624,"end":15800.218,"text":"主委你來自學界你知道我們擔任民意代表經常選民有婚禮我們就會送什麼送什麼這個白頭偕老但是現在很難偕老就寫才子佳人或者是鳳凰餘輝生了小孩我們以前會弄弄張之喜現在女男平等你覺得有人家生小孩我們送什麼他四個字"},{"start":15803.069,"end":15832.309,"text":"我們都會送生慶得人我也會送行政院這四個字因為很開心看到您到金管會來那麼過去在常代財委會的朋友們都知道來財委會一定充分準備PowerPoint但是今天我沒有特別準備因為我相信我對主委過去在學界各種的論壇我去參與對您的瞭解以及您也常常給我寶貴意見您對我議題的瞭解應該我們彼此不太需要透過一個PowerPoint來溝通"},{"start":15833.169,"end":15856.013,"text":"加上我今天看了一下您的這個業務概況報告請問是您到任後才指示同仁做收集的嗎?有些部分新的措施確實是我到任後才跟他們討論的那我看的蠻有你的特色這六大面向43個重點第一章就是關於風險監理就是您的本行但是我仔細看了一下我覺得也要幫寫這份"},{"start":15857.171,"end":15877.473,"text":"報告的同仁團隊給予肯定因為以我在財委會這幾年來大概這裡面我所偏好的有三分之一在裡面所以說好球蛋蠻集中的蠻適合揮棒的我相信其他委員可以在這四、三個重點當中找到他們要的題材那底下我就針對幾個部分來就教於主委"},{"start":15878.234,"end":15890.806,"text":"那麼首先在您的第三點的第三面向第九點就是保險契約強制執行的參考原則剛好也是這距離近我都持續的在關心的那請問主委目前有什麼進度嗎"},{"start":15893.101,"end":15914.875,"text":"現在的話就是我們現在會盡快的來跟我們執行單位訂定這個參考原則希望把這個處理能夠有一個更明確的方法交給這執行單位來處理減少這些案件跟民怨那再來當然接下來還是要從根本上我們會修保險法把有關那個受惠人借物權的部分把它修到保險法裡面解決這個問題"},{"start":15916.104,"end":15934.335,"text":"好,那我想在市局長的協助之下應該可以很順利的很快的就完成這個任務那接下來我也看到了在期前防制要分階段納管虛擬資產平台與交易業務剛曉我這會期被發配到司法法制委員會"},{"start":15935.436,"end":15964.238,"text":"看到您這些題目我都很後悔但沒辦法在那個重災區我們也關心到一些議題跟我們金管會有關那明天我們要排審洗錢防治法那這當中關於心理資產我們也問了一下新任的法務部正部長好像他說也有跟您拜託過請託過因為現在很多詐團的犯罪所得他們基本上民眾最想要的就是把被騙的錢拿回來是不是這樣"},{"start":15965.325,"end":15983.952,"text":"是的但是呢他們不管動產不動產那很好查但是遇到了虛幣或者是加密貨幣虛擬資產就沒轍了但是這裡面呢是未來訪問部的一個重點那我跟他提到說可能需要金管會這邊來協助那您覺得關於這個部分金管會可以幫得上什麼忙"},{"start":15986.964,"end":16002.37,"text":"這個主要是我們在整個分工部分的話我們大概是在主柵就跟委員提到就是說但是零貴關懷主柵但是後面的加密貨幣或虛擬資產對對對這是我們在那個那個打柵專法裡面也把那個虛擬資產跟虛擬帳戶也放進來這裡規範就是這個部分把我們的整個規範的範圍加大了"},{"start":16008.092,"end":16022.709,"text":"那再來就是剛剛前陣子我們在行政防治法裡面也開始用登記制的方式納管這些所謂的這些的未來進行虛擬財產交易的那個那個對象這部分也會大幅提高這個管控的強度"},{"start":16023.029,"end":16047.695,"text":"好很好主委這邊給一個參考的方向啦齁那麼就他們辦案的意見來講呢其實啊詐騙所的如果是用貨幣金錢啊進入到銀行帳戶啊因為大水庫啊進進出出到底哪一筆錢是哪個人被詐的要緩繁實務上很困難因為什麼錢是一模一樣的但是相反的虛幣加密貨幣或虛擬資產就不一樣囉你給他的每一個"},{"start":16049.315,"end":16077.686,"text":"資產都是有ID的所以你後來交給了誰都是可追查的如果這個部分你們做得到這些交易的路徑其實對於被害者他犯罪所他的損失要追回反而讓司法機關有個依循您同意嗎這個同意好那另外最後就要拜託銀行局了那在之前也關於到另外這個非加密貨幣或虛擬資產的部分傳統的這些銀行的轉帳我們看到很多年輕人"},{"start":16079.257,"end":16102.313,"text":"他的帳號被拿去當人頭帳戶很倒楣在短短的時間內交易了好幾次馬上變成警示帳號甚至妨礙他未來的信用請問你認為要如何來防制這樣的情況再發生我們的帳戶的分級可以做到嗎?就像我們的ATM期款或者信用卡可以分級有的卡只能夠3萬元有的卡可以上百萬元您覺得未來銀行帳戶可以做類似的分級管理嗎?"},{"start":16105.848,"end":16124.377,"text":"報告委員其實現在銀行自己本身就已經做有一些分級的管理了比如說久未往來的帳戶他如果一旦來更換他的硬件或者是一些他的現況的情況我了解我是想請教主委那未來你覺得可以怎麼樣去強化呢這也在你們的43個重點當中"},{"start":16127.2,"end":16146.998,"text":"這個確實對於賬戶的分級管理我們除了現有的方式以外我們現在已經開始在研究或是折騰我們的這個銀行公會針對像比如說我們能不能有效的在源頭就做一些分級管理的管控這我們會來強化比如說什麼呢你們的分級管理可以更具體的或描述幾個例子方向讓我們思考一下嗎"},{"start":16148.541,"end":16162.698,"text":"假設這個帳戶過去很久沒有動或說剛開戶的人他要進行高頻的交易就可能會受到一些技術性的阻攔這部分的話我們會朝這個方向來努力"},{"start":16163.419,"end":16186.854,"text":"最後一點時間我大概附帶一點個人有錢薄的金融經驗我個人沒有做生意那一般不會申請支票賬戶但我記得在更早之前有人告訴我你做一個上班族你的薪資賬戶你要累積到一定的信用銀行才會給你發給支票賬戶表示說你必須有一定的信用後你才能去開支票是不是這樣那未來是不是可以往這方面來發展來規劃"},{"start":16189.608,"end":16201.172,"text":"這個朝風險為基礎的管控這應該是同一個方向好 謝謝主委 謝謝三位、四位局長 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員我們謝謝宗教編委員 謝謝接著我們請謝依鳳委員我想要請主委還有彭主委"},{"start":16217.742,"end":16232.394,"text":"彭主委還有政期局的張局長主委早我想請問一下就是我們知道說那個證券交易所的稅它已經降稅這麼久就是當沖的證券交易稅"},{"start":16233.915,"end":16251.402,"text":"到底它在降稅這麼久的過程當中利是什麼?弊是什麼?當初我們考量到降稅可能有稅損嗎?到底對於你們從過去以來這麼長一段時間的評估你們認為優點是什麼?缺點是什麼?"},{"start":16258.412,"end":16286.384,"text":"是 謝謝我想這個當中降稅這個措施實施到現在確實有些成效是出來比如它交易量擴大以後呢流動性增加、價格發行的功能增加市場的效率性增加但是呢它確實也有很多的其他的顧慮比如說當然另外還有一個就是因為它交易量增加稅收增加、手續費增加但是就說假設從損益的角度來看就是就不一定是透過當中都能夠獲利對不對風險管理的角度"},{"start":16287.885,"end":16315.135,"text":"對 再來就是說其實這個當中量多以後呢其實也有助於避險但是它還有一些另外的考量可能是從租稅公平的角度來看這當然是很多元啦站在我們是一個金融主管機關的角度我們比較在意是市場的效率性還有就是一些對於整個市場的壯大與健全發展來看 謝謝那請問一下那個局長那個現在每日的股市交易量是多少"},{"start":16316.181,"end":16322.386,"text":"現在每日大概4000多億當沖佔多少當沖大概佔38%的比重那如果佔38%的比重未來你們是不是要考慮把當沖降稅延期我們目前公定會的意見大家的共識是建議延期5年"},{"start":16344.707,"end":16354.24,"text":"那既然延期其實已經從2017年開始了嘛是不是那已經一延再延你們會把就是當沖降稅變成常態化嗎"},{"start":16356.676,"end":16380.648,"text":"因為稅制支出報告的需要我們必須定期來檢討所以不會說變成常態化的概念所以你們沒有辦法變成常態化這個是稅制的要求在財政部這邊的規範那如果就是主委剛才講到的就是說有這麼多的就是說對於交易量的活絡或者是避險上面這樣子等等的影響那為什麼不常態化"},{"start":16382.675,"end":16392.706,"text":"剛才有講在制度上我們覺得是維持市場的流通性這是有必要性但是在稅務的部分他們有一個報告的限制期間"},{"start":16394.042,"end":16414.623,"text":"所以是因為稅制的關係所以沒有辦法常態化所以你們目前還是朝向延長這樣子的角度來看是不是主委我想要請教一下其實從過去以來大家都說監理跟發展要並進我看到你說的是安全跟發展"},{"start":16416.405,"end":16424.824,"text":"可是我看了一下你的項目那請問你認為你發展的重大的政策未來會有哪些"},{"start":16426.255,"end":16452.57,"text":"發展大概就是幫市場找機會幫我們的金融消費者找到他理想的金融服務然後這樣達到共榮的地步那安全是要讓我們所有的每一筆的金融交易都能夠非常的安全穩定這兩個是其實是可以齊頭並進對 因為我看到你的就是說你們的報告裡面其實比較多的在強調安全的部分"},{"start":16452.95,"end":16480.655,"text":"那是本來就是金融市場的安定是一個最基礎的部分我看到你們可是我比較少看到就在發展的部分所以我才想要了解說你們發展的部分就如同剛才有委員提到了就是說是不是我們的銀行賬戶就是不用經過審核就可以發支票可是其實我們知道說以數位金融發展的角度而言我們現在"},{"start":16481.355,"end":16510.151,"text":"幾乎不會用到支票啊是不是那如果是這樣子的時候那我們就增加了就是說反而增加了一個就是好像阻礙發展的一個步驟是現在就是陳副委員指示的就是說比如說剛才講發展的面向其實蠻多比如說我們剛提到在我們發展領域有一個就是我們要促進金融科技的應用這個部分就是讓我們整個經營效率化"},{"start":16510.871,"end":16534.447,"text":"那就可以把整個的成果可以回饋到我們市場來這是一個然後也降低成本那像比如說剛才講我們去發展臺灣的比如說成為一個資產管理中心讓商品多元化讓更多的資產能夠留在臺灣然後有更多的金融商機也是一個發展的方向那就關於你的金融科技的發展那時程呢"},{"start":16535.774,"end":16563.365,"text":"我們現在眼前馬上可以來做的就是其實我們現在促進臺灣的金融發展有兩大的工具一個是監理沙盒監理沙盒牽涉到法律這個複雜度比較高那我們會來可能是這個修法的進程可能會晚一點但是我們眼前馬上可以做的就是我們針對金管會現在大宗就是金融業務的事辦這個部分我們把它擴大範圍我們預計這樣會增加蠻多蠻多的事辦的空間以及未來的應用那什麼時候開始我覺得我們會盡快來做這件事"},{"start":16565.145,"end":16588.781,"text":"儘快沒有確切的時程至少這個應該是我覺得在這個下一季或至少半年內各位可以看到有一些內容出來那還有其他的部分嗎當然這個部分還有很多其實重點是我們金融科技還牽涉到很多法規的鬆綁因為我們既然這個部分已經實驗可行以後我們就要開始檢討法規鬆綁還是那安全跟發展兩個要兼顧"},{"start":16591.041,"end":16608.568,"text":"所以法規的鬆綁是下一步那預計什麼時候?法規的鬆綁是持續性的要做的一件事情就是我們要與時俱進對,那什麼時候會開始進行?法規鬆綁我們應該是從現在即日起就要開始做了所以現在就要開始做法對,那是個常態化的做法所以什麼時候會送行政院了嗎?"},{"start":16609.922,"end":16632.787,"text":"那個可能不需要,我們內部來形成一個文化形成一個程序就可以來持續的與時俱進我們的法令好,謝謝我們謝謝,謝謝鳳委員接著我們請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉,蘇清泉不在徐欣盈委員徐欣盈,徐欣盈不在羅明才委員謝謝"},{"start":16639.002,"end":16644.704,"text":"主席、各位委員、初列席、官員大家好主席、各位委員請捧諸位請捧諸位,謝謝盧委員你好帶著開心的心情來到財委會我們財委會也是熱誠的歡迎因為這個地方是一個討論事情大家就是認識開開心心的地方雖然是如此"},{"start":16668.885,"end":16694.505,"text":"但是提醒諸位其實一般來來這邊蜜月期大概我們都是給一個月本來很多委員都是磨刀霍霍說新來的要讓你知道一下什麼是立法院但是我覺得這樣是不對的方法特別你也是教授出身而且家庭也是和樂融融"},{"start":16696.701,"end":16724.384,"text":"然後外界我一些朋友直接間接認識你也很多大概都講你好話比較多講壞話還沒聽過所以我希望說你如果說過去的好要持續的努力下去面對那麼重要的事情銀行、證券、保險在三個金融的範疇裡面"},{"start":16726.133,"end":16752.403,"text":"過去的主委我們也感謝他真的是電力的一個很深厚的基礎比如說銀行的預放比現在是多少可能是不到零點幾了吧零點一三零點一三這個數字很漂亮跟健檢一樣股市現在幾點了兩萬一千今天沒看兩萬一千五百兩萬一千五百對"},{"start":16753.919,"end":16762.669,"text":"那因為之前是臺灣今天是龍年嘛剛好臺灣一個是龍年一隻龍另外還有一隻龍叫楊金龍兩隻龍啊就飛龍在天股市漲到兩萬點"},{"start":16769.42,"end":16797.858,"text":"所以第二個問題要問你說那主委你在啦齁如果你能把這個整個環境國際的這個大變動就不要講了齁你如果站穩兩萬點齁這持續大概一個月左右大概下個月齁本席啊就跟上一次突破一萬點一樣我就請你吃雞排跟喝珍奶"},{"start":16800.188,"end":16825.343,"text":"有沒有信心可以穩定發展我想剛剛有委員提過我對我們是很有信心但是就是說因為股市我們站在是一個金融監理機關我們在意是制度面的健全那股市漲跌本來就會有一定的影響那我們當然希望它很平穩也很健全因為我這裡的報告裡面其實大家都對你有一些期待"},{"start":16827.049,"end":16851.195,"text":"就是說你在的時候看到你的報告都是主張是比較開放的跟國際接軌成為整個亞太中心的金融財管中心理財中心這一類的我們都是寄予厚望希望你是第三隻龍龍年的一個龍楊金龍你是彭金龍"},{"start":16852.99,"end":16871.671,"text":"希望你認真做讓股市大家可以看到三萬點的榮景有沒有信心我對我們都很有信心加油三萬點到的時候我就不是那個雞排跟珍奶"},{"start":16872.898,"end":16898.607,"text":"要比較精彩一點我再想一下三萬點快到的時候我再來想但這是一種期許啦其實過好的生活大家安居樂業對都是很開心的啦股市漲大家多鼓勵來投資也是非常好的比如說今天我們看到台積電已經破歷史新高漲到860塊主委你有沒有投資啊"},{"start":16901.949,"end":16924.884,"text":"我都買基金買基金啊你沒有買到台積電基金裡面應該有它的成分恭喜喔那就是水上船高啦沒有關係我們希望說理財成為未來金管會因為金管會周邊的單位都很有錢所以你知道今天來裡面最有錢的是誰哪個單位"},{"start":16931.093,"end":16957.714,"text":"臺灣證券交易所你知道他去年的EPS多少錢大概七八塊今年我預估因為林董他也是很厲害的很會賺錢的今年大概應該也跑不掉所以我們希望說主委你要多認識周邊的這些單位怎麼樣來提供更多的服務來幫助民眾"},{"start":16958.971,"end":16982.859,"text":"打詐也好或者是做一些救助也好據我所知我們臺灣證券交易所也做很多公益事項啊對不對今天坐在這邊都是團隊啊都團隊所以我們希望賺的錢不要為富不仁多多參與社會關懷社會的發展走入校區不要讓"},{"start":16984.048,"end":17012.237,"text":"小白在森林中迷路不要讓小白在大海之中航海的時候落水多多讓他們一些健康的理財觀念那第三個就是有關銀行的方面銀行大概在臺灣過去的這個發展就是穩定因為他的預放現在也很低"},{"start":17013.8,"end":17034.232,"text":"但是我們看到全世界包括新加坡也好英國也好很多的金融發展它不得了衍生性的金融商品推出也非常非常多所以我想請教一下主委有關虛擬貨幣的推動虛擬貨幣到底是什麼是不是錢"},{"start":17043.117,"end":17071.178,"text":"其實在不管學理事務上都蠻多的爭議那這個部分確實在定義上可能沒辦法現在有一個馬上的不過它確實現在就已經變成非常普遍的一個投資甚至是一個交易的媒介工具對 這個很貼近所以我們不要去迴避本席在這個地方曾經在比特幣大概六千多塊的時候我建請中央銀行可以多少買一點"},{"start":17072.639,"end":17100.382,"text":"就你猜猜看央行有沒有接受我的建議沒有接受我的建議所以當今天比特幣現在漲到7萬塊美金的時候我不知道他心裡會做何感想講這句話很簡單但是對於所有年輕人因為老恐恐的不懂比特幣嘛"},{"start":17101.434,"end":17118.018,"text":"所以他第一個心態就是不要不要拒絕你去問那個80歲以上的70歲以上那些都會被騙了可是詐騙的結果是虛擬貨幣去詐騙人呢還是人利用虛擬貨幣去詐騙人這個意思你理解吧所以你想想看"},{"start":17126.188,"end":17146.488,"text":"當初如果有一個很好的專法來管理這些虛擬貨幣主委你知道我跟你講現在台灣所以賺很多錢的就是這些年輕人因為沒有好的管理方式大家都亂竄大家不正面去面對他我們發現"},{"start":17148.22,"end":17165.159,"text":"當美國要接受了香港也即將要接受了歐洲到處新加坡都已經這個司空漸寬的一個虛擬貨幣的時候我們是不是應該來思考新主委的上任應該要趕快積極地跟上腳步主委你認同嗎"},{"start":17168.027,"end":17190.536,"text":"我們在未來在整個金融科技發展的時候我想區塊鏈跟數位貨幣都是未來一個很重要的區塊啦我們會持續來關注這一題希望多加油啦是 謝謝那另外一個其實就是建立一個思維跟扶持這個金融產業的一個內心的心理想法"},{"start":17192.79,"end":17202.305,"text":"所以你是贊成處罰多一點還是用以鼓勵來代替苛責的方式讓青農業持續的蓬勃發展"},{"start":17202.891,"end":17228.729,"text":"我是覺得在金融監理有一個非常重要就是依法辦理這個是一個最基本也最沒爭議的一個方法但是我剛才講監理這是要有非常明確的一個界限但是我們市場的發展這是一個還是要做的我覺得這兩件事情還是都非常重要好 謝謝我希望你盡量可以大刀闊斧高刺斬飛"},{"start":17230.615,"end":17257.15,"text":"其實上一次主委不錯但是大家覺得他就是比較保守一點過去金融的財閥10年前是很少結果慢慢增加去年的預算是多少去年幾億大概有4億多每一家公司的覺得奇怪什麼一直被罰被罰款的速度越來越多越來越快當"},{"start":17260.155,"end":17289.478,"text":"處罰越多的時候其實是不利整個金融的蓬勃發展安全當然重要但是你要多一點鼓勵啊你要有方法啊是不是這樣完全同意因為其實金融市場健全不在於處罰啦我們講行其無形嘛處罰不是目的是一個手段我們最終希望都不要有財閥案但是這個需要大家努力好不好看到剛剛講的這些數字啊主委你就放膽去做吧"},{"start":17290.285,"end":17309.493,"text":"把臺灣帶向一個國際的交易金融中心臺灣看能不能取代香港能不能贏上新加坡那有關這個人事制度的問題主委也要費一點心多了解一下是你知道"},{"start":17310.677,"end":17338.824,"text":"保險啊他現在管理啊保險局啊管理的資產規模有多少現在保險的資產應該超過35兆35兆你知道保險局的人員有多少員工人非常少多少應該是一百人左右吧才一百人一百人是我一百四是所有局裡面最少一百年一百人是我三十年前來這邊的時候他就一百人然後政企局啊政企局多少人對"},{"start":17340.32,"end":17356.213,"text":"這幾局多少人這幾局應該兩百兩百三十幾兩百三十幾個進去全部幾乎都是女的不是騎士是男的沒位子坐沙發放在那邊已經破了破破舊舊二十幾年都沒換"},{"start":17357.984,"end":17385.23,"text":"我們國家堂堂一個政企局起碼整個設備或人力制度稍微要調整一下這個愉快的工作環境我們會來持續改善加油一下銀行、證券、保險銀行也一樣啊都是窮窮的啦我希望環境做好一點不然你留財留不住啊舉個例子好了主委你來啦你一個月才領多少錢這還沒去了解"},{"start":17386.84,"end":17408.086,"text":"那你還蠻勇敢的啊當你有一天遇到鄭明忠的時候你問他你就會想說 哇 原來在民間工作真的是又開心 核保有滿滿的想一下 怎麼樣讓大家的這個心智結構跟上合理的時代通膨的來臨"},{"start":17411.684,"end":17441.167,"text":"好的薪水才可以找到好的人才另外那個金融資訊局我建議趕快成立必須要面對這些問題是好 謝謝謝謝委員指教謝謝我們羅明財召委股市上萬點主任秘書說不能只請雞排跟那個針最少是隔壁的那個餐券喜來登上萬點一個月接著我們請麥玉珍"},{"start":17442.349,"end":17443.831,"text":"今天登記發言已詢答完畢"},{"start":17462.029,"end":17481.436,"text":"報告及詢答完畢本事會作如下決定報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請監管會一周內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其所定委員張家俊所提書面質詢"},{"start":17483.277,"end":17491.14,"text":"列入紀錄刊登公報並請金管會以書面答覆本市會議程已進行完畢如果不在場為補題書面質詢一併列入紀錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理散會"},{"start":17513.055,"end":17532.476,"text":"有限公司有限公司有限公司"},{"start":17540.15,"end":17556.638,"text":"有限公司有限公司有限公司有限公司有限公司"},{"start":17561.46,"end":17563.921,"text":"財政委員會主席財政委員會主席財政委員會主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}