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相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報三對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關介述與書面答覆宣讀完畢"},{"start":1973.288,"end":1997.331,"text":"由於我們在場委員未達議決人數3人那我們待會再來確定議事錄那今天的議程是邀請文化部長李遠列席報告業務概況．並備質詢那麼首先先來介紹在場委員吳佩儀委員那我們來介紹與會的官員我歡迎新任的文化部部長李遠"},{"start":1999.673,"end":2017.599,"text":"我們的小野部長：文化部政務次長李敬慧：王石思政務次長：還有徐宜君常務次長：還有我們縱歸司的魏秋宜司長："},{"start":2020.876,"end":2028.379,"text":"陳登欽主秘林宏毅文創發展師江青松影視及流行音樂發展師吳依璇人文及出版師楊廷臻"},{"start":2047,"end":2063.312,"text":"藝術發展師周雅晶師長．文化交流師紀東陽代理師長．還有我們蒙藏文化中心高玉珍主任．人事處劉燦慶處長．主計處劉明金處長．資訊處莊順清處長．文化資產局陳季明局長．"},{"start":2072.674,"end":2097.407,"text":"還有我們影視及流行音樂產業局徐宜君代理局長我們國立藝術傳統藝術中心陳月宜主任國父紀念館王蘭生館長中正紀念堂周雅金代理處長歷史博物館王長華館長台灣美術館"},{"start":2105.937,"end":2129.393,"text":"陳鄺宜館長．台灣工藝研究發展中心陳電理主任．台灣博物館洪世祐館長．還有史前文化博物館蔡志仁代理館長．交響樂團劉璇勇團長．歷史博物館張榮志館長．台灣文學館林金力館長．"},{"start":2131.69,"end":2138.997,"text":"國家人權博物館洪世芳館長．鐵道博物館籌備處鄭明璋主任．兒童未來館籌備處曾聰邦主任國家漫畫博物館籌備處黃淑娥代理主任"},{"start":2157.751,"end":2176.545,"text":"行政法人國家表演藝術中心 郭美娟 卓爾米蘇海姆文策院 蔡佳俊 董事長國家電影及視聽文化中心 楚敏仁 董事長好我們 萬美玲委員到好我們介紹 洪孟楷委員"},{"start":2187.244,"end":2204.557,"text":"好那我們在場一決人數已達法定人數那我們來確定議事錄議事錄若有無疏漏跟錯誤之處若沒有的話那我們議事錄就確定好那我們接下來我們就請文化部呃李部長來進行報告報告時間6分鐘"},{"start":2213.656,"end":2240.578,"text":"主席各位委員各位先進還有我們的文化部的所有同仁大家好然後今天很榮幸在我擔任文化部長第三天就應這個教育委員會教育文化委員會來邀請就文化部的一些業務報告還有備詢我的心情其實很複雜因為我就是來自一個藝文界我做過電影也做過電視也寫過文學也做過戲劇"},{"start":2242.33,"end":2268.712,"text":"所以我非常感謝這一路以來的很多文化工作者的創意跟投入文化部是一個很年輕的部歷任過幾個文化部長我覺得他們都為這個部打下了非常好的基礎包括預算的爭取包括2.0的那個歷史建物的計畫等等計畫投入所以我"},{"start":2271.09,"end":2281.608,"text":"從這個基礎下去往下做我心情上還算是沒有太緊張然後台灣目前已經受到世界的矚目所以文化部作為一個台灣藝術文化的服務者"},{"start":2283.7,"end":2283.8,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2305.723,"end":2328.065,"text":"關鍵我覺得我們不應該是扮演一個指導者的角色因為台灣的民間文化非常蓬勃文化部的責任應該是提供服務跟協助所以我們應該不是由上而下的指導好以下我開始講我四個很簡單的概念我用非常白話文的方式講就是第一個我認為文化其實無所不在"},{"start":2328.806,"end":2355.757,"text":"他不是我們想像中只有戲劇電影文學其實生活的文化才是我每天早上起來十一住行會遇到的這個生活的文化所以我們要改變我們國人在環境中對生活有歷史感然後所以我覺得重建這個從點到線到面的重建歷史現場非常重要還有推動各區域性的文化保存也非常重要"},{"start":2357.644,"end":2371.499,"text":"重現台灣大歷史的現場也非常重要同時要健全法治推動有形和無形的文化資產創新與再造因為我覺得尤其是年輕人活在這塊島嶼上"},{"start":2373.1,"end":2373.68,"text":"﹚社區營造﹚社區營造對我來講印象深刻"},{"start":2395.293,"end":2415.103,"text":"如果台灣沒有社區營造這個活動的話我們對於社區的概念跟民間的概念都是一個還是由上而下的一個概念所以社區總體營造讓人才回到自己的家鄉然後扶持區域交流的平台然後每個社區按照自己的特色發展"},{"start":2416.54,"end":2432.854,"text":"結合文化平權人權教育然後最後凝聚每一個社會對他自己土地的歷史認同還有國家認同所以我會推動另外一個是國家議員方面國家議員台灣是一個多元的國家我們都知道"},{"start":2433.922,"end":2460.435,"text":"我們台灣為了推動這個多語言有原住民委員會有客家委員會推動母語那麼我們將持續從文化部角度我們要推廣是從家庭社會到學校不同的場域透過生活化跟現代化的面向落實語言復正計畫推行國家語言研究從打造語言友善平權環境著手"},{"start":2461.513,"end":2461.533,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":2480.882,"end":2481.022,"text":"我會鼓勵"},{"start":2501.892,"end":2522.529,"text":"我互相瞭解彼此的文化我們才能夠達成一個共榮另外我會繼續推動重建台灣藝術史透過台灣的藝術家的故事將文化教育的下閘跟繼續進行博物館美術館升級計畫強化智慧科技運用另外"},{"start":2524.131,"end":2545.38,"text":"議員提供與時俱進的博物館政策及法規制度：促進各管制資源共同享用但全民可以共同體驗另外我想重視一件事就是針對兒少世代影視作品跟兒童形塑自我認同的重要管道所以我覺得公共電視的兒少台的"},{"start":2546.52,"end":2575.246,"text":"開台是非常非常重要的因為在我過去的經驗中台灣的製作公司已經很少在製作兒少節目了所以這個動作是非常大的一步希望能夠培養台灣更多的能夠製作兒童節目的製作單位另外我也會很重視加強福祉台灣的童書跟繪本讓台灣的孩子可以讀到自己的童書跟自己的繪本然後幫台灣的童書跟繪本"},{"start":2576.243,"end":2594.757,"text":"推到全世界所以我提到一個文化幣文化幣可以降低年齡我算過一下如果我們降低到12歲的話我們增加54萬人大概6億左右這個如果"},{"start":2595.698,"end":2617.979,"text":"行政院同意的話我們就在明年的預算裡編列立刻給執行再來一個就是大家都知道的就是創造性的文化我想我在我的任內我一定會讓台灣的創造性的文化包括影視音圖文出版遊戲動漫設計還有文學提升提升台灣的文學"},{"start":2619.484,"end":2638.417,"text":"電影影視音動漫遊戲還有設計的競爭力創造一個IP的台灣然後影響全世界的台流經濟另外第4點就是一個傳播的文化我想文化是需要傳播的我將健全強化我們公共媒體"},{"start":2639.793,"end":2668.445,"text":"還有一個國際頻道增加文化傳播上的影響力我會支持公共電視各種經營的頻道因為公共電視從18年前開始有公管集團之後經過18年它已經的影響力越來越大了另外我盡量製作一些跨語言跟類型多元的節目然後台灣plus也是一個我們繼續發展能夠在海外收視知道台灣的各種情況的一個國際合作的一個"},{"start":2669.505,"end":2671.306,"text":"臺灣臺灣的創作者有他的出處"},{"start":2702.213,"end":2716.081,"text":"另外我希望我們的文化能夠跟全世界交朋友因為除了正式的搬交之外文化是最好能夠推到全世界跟不同人種交流的一個方法"},{"start":2717.213,"end":2743.792,"text":"那麼最近馬上來到了巴黎文化奧運就是我們向全世界介紹台灣文化的一個最好的時機在那個那一次機會中我們會有音樂、戲劇、舞蹈多種元素展現給國外的人看到我們台灣的文化所以結論就是文化永續世界台灣是我們的核心理念我們將以行動創新的方式繼續深耕我會希望可以跟其他部會"},{"start":2744.957,"end":2763.029,"text":"．"},{"start":2771.377,"end":2782.749,"text":"好謝謝 謝謝李部長的口頭報告那我們現在進行詢答每位出席委員質詢8分鐘不要使延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘發言登記節時間為上午10點30分"},{"start":2788.275,"end":2806.298,"text":"委員若臨時提案．請於上午10點30分前提出．並於本會委員吳佩奕委員質詢結束後．及進行處理．處理提案時若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場．原例不予處理好我們首先就請發言登記第一位萬美林委員質詢好謝謝主席我們有請李遠部長請李部長"},{"start":2823.034,"end":2829.339,"text":"本席在跟主席說要有請李遠部長的時候我一度想要說有請小野部長因為我們對小野這個名字大概比對李遠這個名字更熟悉一些"},{"start":2851.156,"end":2870.984,"text":"您剛也自己提過您是一個從這個過去文化創作者然後投入文化產業然後呢也推動台灣這個新浪潮電影運動也擔任過這個電視台的經理董事跟總經理那現在踏入了政壇喔那你可以說是走過了台灣文化影視產業的興起蓬勃跟衰弱在個五十幾個年頭喔"},{"start":2872.384,"end":2878.608,"text":"從過去這個老三台的電視到現在數位匯流的OTT時代我相信你應該對整個台灣影視娛樂的產業環境相當熟悉對嗎?"},{"start":2884.299,"end":2909.328,"text":"完全對完全對喔好很好那部長我想面對整個產業發展的數位這個化的轉型喔還有現在我們都知道這個韓流啦然後這個對岸的錄劇啦電影啊音樂的強勢崛起喔那在這個時間點要扛起這個整個臺灣文化跟影視產業圖的重大責任喔不曉得部長您知不知道臺灣現在整個碰到的困境是什麼您認為是什麼"},{"start":2911.349,"end":2920.649,"text":"其實台灣的困境第一個在就電影來講或者戲劇來講他的市場太小然後頻道太多然後這個國外的這個"},{"start":2922.312,"end":2941.374,"text":"﹗"},{"start":2941.544,"end":2966.84,"text":"好 那我想這個部長有看到這所謂的是市場面的問題所以呢我們就也要想想看在未來我們怎麼樣來協助這個他們有這個舞台有這個市場然後找到問題點對症效要來解決那但是呢我想我們知道問題點在哪裡這是最可貴的最重要就是如果今天我們主政不知道問題點在哪裡甚至於不覺得那個問題是問題我想這才是最可怕的地方所以剛剛提到這個市場需求"},{"start":2967.58,"end":2987.337,"text":"我想過去我們看到其實文化部其實有的時候其實用補助的方式來去解決問題或者是一直蓋很多的硬體然後做很多的文化園區展演空間不斷的蓋那最後這些我們看到很多都淪為蚊子館那甚至於我們還有說要發展什麼什麼國家隊我想很多的口號喊得漫天尬響或是很多的計畫非常大"},{"start":2988.878,"end":3009.523,"text":"但是最後是不但沒有打進世界盃﹖浪費很多的預算﹖也浪費很多資源﹖那誠如您剛剛說的﹖一直在談說這個預算也好﹖資金也好﹖但是我覺得怎麼樣對症下藥﹖這才是最重要﹖不然其實預算跟資源都會浪費掉﹖所以接著我想請教一下部長﹖您目前最常使用來觀賞節目的平台是什麼"},{"start":3011.067,"end":3011.087,"text":"對﹖好"},{"start":3026.109,"end":3048.141,"text":"根據本月5月15日資策會產業情報研究所公布的調查顯示國人觀看OTT串流影音已經達到49%的偏好度超越了非串流影音的44%而且推估在未來的三年可能就會過半了所以這個OTT的數位串流影音平台未來也是一個市場的趨勢這一點部長您同意嗎?"},{"start":3050.222,"end":3069.616,"text":"同意您自己曾經使用過或者是看過這個影音平台這個抖音嗎沒有您從來都沒有看過我很排斥好您排斥是您個人排斥嗎就是說你都沒有在任何的平台上去看過任何個抖音的這個資訊都沒有嗎如果有人傳給我我也蠻討厭的"},{"start":3073.632,"end":3073.792,"text":"你知道嗎?"},{"start":3073.792,"end":3073.952,"text":"我知道"},{"start":3105.831,"end":3111.116,"text":"雖然您自己本身說您滿排斥,但不知道為什麼您要去做這個排斥,能不能說明一下?"},{"start":3112.264,"end":3136.977,"text":"我覺得抖音蠻明顯是一個認知作戰他讓我們所有接收抖音的人他缺少耐心看更長的片子然後缺少思考就像我曾經當一個學校校長我覺得現在年輕人在看電影的時候他幾乎沒有能力從頭看到尾他必須快轉但我們人類看東西都用很短暫的那個"},{"start":3138.118,"end":3153.239,"text":"委員在看的時候他幾乎沒有能力組織一個屬於自己的思考好部長您後段講的其實我非常認同但是前段如果您要說所有的抖音都是認知作戰這個是我也無法認同的所以我在想事實上我們也必須要去了解"},{"start":3154,"end":3165.245,"text":"對很多現在的現況我們才能夠知道就是到底我們要用什麼樣的方式才能制定有效的策略來協助將來我們在文化或者是相關的國際影音產業上面發展那所以呢其實我們來看根據2024年台灣數位趨勢的報告指出在這個抖音"},{"start":3174.229,"end":3195.772,"text":"雖然部長您很排斥但是我相信您一定看過了這個台灣用戶已經高達565萬人而且觸及率更達到全台灣網路使用者的26%而且很多的用戶其實是國中以下的少年族群所以依照目前這樣的狀況部長您本人是贊成我們完全禁用抖音這件事嗎"},{"start":3196.789,"end":3202.273,"text":"其實你問這個問題其實蠻難因為我覺得在台灣這個自由民主社會還有包括我們的法令好像很難完全禁止它但是可以局部的限制它我想其實部長我覺得跟您討論到這邊來其實我蠻能贊同你就是說你有自己的看法跟想法但是你也蠻務實去看整個現狀所以其實很多的事情禁止其實不是解決之道因為你禁完一個可能會再來一個"},{"start":3223.547,"end":3247.221,"text":"你永遠沒有辦法完全把它禁止掉的嘛尤其像您剛剛所說的現在又是一個民主的社會嘛除了我們自己如果沒有去下載但是呢你今天不管透過可能IG啊或是臉書啊都很有可能它會跳出來您還是會看到甚至於像您剛剛所說的朋友會傳給您嘛所以我想這個我們用另外一個角度來思考就像一場比賽當中我們是要去想一想怎麼去提升自己來去擊敗對手"},{"start":3248.422,"end":3271.203,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":3271.203,"end":3301.203,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":3301.323,"end":3325.094,"text":"你認為要怎麼去因應呢?我覺得這個問題對我來講其實70年早期的70年代台灣年產200部國片是因為沒有競爭對手我們就靠馬來西亞新加坡就可以收回來一半可是當香港起來當中國大陸電影起來的時候我們就被打敗了然後現在韓國的文化還有日本文化"},{"start":3326.38,"end":3346.032,"text":"包括動漫這麼吸引台灣的新少年我唯一的想法就是我們也要反過來從我們的動漫從我們的動畫從我們的電影還有文學裡有我們自己的特色包括造型否則那個造型怎麼看都是韓國的或者是日本的或者長得很像的"},{"start":3346.992,"end":3368.099,"text":"對我這個年紀來講是蠻感傷的因為我曾經也非常努力的在80年代希望我們台灣電影走上國際部長所以我想我們應該要思考的是因為這個OTT數位匯流的發展那我們這個台灣的影視產業也可以這樣來打入國際市場但是相對就像您剛剛所說的我們要面對的更多的競爭"},{"start":3369.319,"end":3390.789,"text":"所以我們除了需要針對市場有好的IP之外我們也需要引進更多民間的資金也需要有更有競爭力的OTT平台來配合所以過去我們的史澤部長曾經說過要組OTT國家隊讓台劇不要再受限於在國際這個平台您的看法是什麼要組這個OTT國家隊"},{"start":3391.869,"end":3410.201,"text":"OK,因為這個你問到重點了,因為我們台灣對於電影影視的輔導,輔導其實比較屬於藝術的,由文策院主導的是比較商業的,比較產業的,目前文策院正在進行的好幾個計畫,就是找到台灣幾個最大的影音平台,跟他們合作"},{"start":3410.981,"end":3433.37,"text":"﹗"},{"start":3434.87,"end":3440.522,"text":"部長您其實可以繼續講因為您可能第一次來聽到鈴聲如果這個主席沒有制止您還是可以繼續回答的OK"},{"start":3441.55,"end":3465.427,"text":"好現在我們文車園在做的事情很簡單就是動用到我們國發基金給我們的那100億去找到民間願意跟我們相對投資的幾種類型其中我知道可能最有效的就是ott平台比如中華電信好了或者是台灣大哥大或者遠傳我們能夠說服他跟我們一起投資一個新的"},{"start":3466.127,"end":3466.147,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":3493.257,"end":3510.421,"text":"部長,我想台灣當然影視產業還是有面對很多的危機但是我相信危機就是轉機尤其部長您上來看起來其實有做很多的功課那也有很多對未來的一個看法跟想法那看怎麼落實因為事實上現在是一個多角化商業模式的一個時代"},{"start":3511.021,"end":3532.832,"text":"不管電視網路OTT還或者是實體演出的全平台其實透過多角化的平台能夠行銷到國際龐大的市場那未來其實台灣的影視產業才有可能在不靠政府的補助之下並且脫離內宣文化去走出國際那我們希望其實部長你是從業界來的那過去也有這麼多的經歷那將來能夠正視這個問題來協助台灣影視產業從逆境中來突圍部長最後問您有沒有信心"},{"start":3539.793,"end":3557.228,"text":"我其實非常有信心你讓我多講一句話我看過非常多台劇最近這段時間看過非常多台劇也看過非常多韓劇日劇我覺得台灣是在一個各種文明相激盪的一個地方其實我們的每一個台劇最近我看到的他的人文"},{"start":3558.148,"end":3585.503,"text":"﹚"},{"start":3587.712,"end":3587.912,"text":"蕭美玲議員"},{"start":3606.618,"end":3606.898,"text":"我對於你的這個業務報告我還是有點失望"},{"start":3623.263,"end":3630.308,"text":"因為我看不到小野的理念不要忘記我是看你勇之聲長大的好不好所以我沒看到你的理念你幾乎就是把史哲的33頁改成濃縮成19頁當中像你最近提到你就說你要把華視希望能夠用民股把它買回來而且你是最能夠對華視的未來的轉型著力最多因為你曾經在那邊工作過可是我沒有在你的業務報告中看到任何的遺像我覺得這是"},{"start":3647.8,"end":3653.061,"text":"可能我們認為是你剛上來所以說你就只能把現有的部分來做一些深解這是我覺得比較可惜的地方而且呢我為什麼要特別提出來因為我很想看看你的想法過去的歷年來我們文化部被認為就是一個撒錢的大部所以說呢沒有看到太多令人耳目一新的文化的一個政策所以呢部長你會不會在被框架下面你會不會有覺得有有志男生的我希望不會有可是到目前為止你有嗎"},{"start":3680.175,"end":3695.896,"text":"報告委員我從以前到現在我都沒有政黨屬性然後我不管去早期在中央電影公司國民黨的電影機構裡做了8年或者在科文哲學部長你的講話快一點我問題很好"},{"start":3697.691,"end":3699.672,"text":"最近大家最紅的就是我們的泰勒斯在新加坡"},{"start":3713.379,"end":3740.216,"text":"他幾乎可以創造一週五億美元的一個收益那這不會是只是一個單一的團體這是整個新加坡請全政府之力來促成這樣的一件事情那目前來說台灣有一些的場地台灣有這樣子的一個經驗台北跟高雄都極力要來去做但這不是單一這個市政府就有辦法的所以說你認為新加坡用這個政府之力來做這件事情部長你要把泰德斯當作是你的工作項目"},{"start":3741.55,"end":3752.3,"text":"我還沒想到請泰勒斯來因為他未來兩年當中有可能到台灣來所以說你現在沒有想到他我提醒你好不好你可以把它當作是一個很大的工作目標因為這沒有文化部涉入的話很難是有辦法來去把它達成的那接下來呢我們來看一下因為呢我們賴總統特別在鄭楠榮的紀念會上說他要洗滌每一個人的人心好了我們就來看看"},{"start":3765.071,"end":3793.858,"text":"如何來洗滌我最近看到這一則新聞就是呢很多時候呢這個中正紀念塔大家認為是轉型徵要來轉型所以呢就傳出文化部在研議要撤掉這裡面的三軍儀隊這是你在你擔任部長之前所傳流出來的我不曉得是不是上任的部長把這件工作交接給你呢還是你們這些一級主管在沒有經過你允許之下就在放出這樣的一個訊息部長你可以做個澄清"},{"start":3797.096,"end":3804.084,"text":"而且呢過去也曾經有提過這樣的一個案件是最近又提出來當時的國防部長認為徹調不宜但是我們現在的國防部長已經換了人了已經換了顧立雄或許你可以內外來彼此配合這件事情會成行嗎其實中正經濟長對我來講齁"},{"start":3815.612,"end":3833.408,"text":"我一直覺得民眾的休閒跟擴大他的休息更重要我覺得你對於威權的看法什麼樣代表威權那個同樣的存在是不是威權儀隊是不是代表威權我覺得見仁見智我很不喜歡那種形式的東西所以您剛剛講這個我沒有聽過"},{"start":3835.891,"end":3848.842,"text":"很好,所以我也完全贊同不用把任何一個建築物賦予他太多意識形態的一個意義所以我只是提醒因為已經開始放出這樣一個部分所以目前為止不是你首要去做的一件工作就對了"},{"start":3850.243,"end":3869.949,"text":"接下來我們剛提到了為什麼我要特別提到因為大家都把中正經濟學場當作是轉型正義的一部分了那我們現在看看這個文化部的真正的正義到底在哪裡我們現在看這個臺文館好了我不曉得臺文館裏面部長你知不知道有限制性招標的理由限制性招標我不知道你們把這個"},{"start":3871.249,"end":3886.225,"text":"目前來說有多少的舞弊這是我等下跟你討論的因為他陷入了這個抄襲的風波也是給抄襲的廠商每年都用限制性的一個招標請問部長你知不知道他們提出限制性招標的理由是什麼"},{"start":3886.966,"end":3909.963,"text":"通常在我們公家機關限制性招標它還是一個公開對外我懂啊 這個都是在你們採購法裡面完全可以同意但是你是基於什麼樣的理由是基於專業的服務基於技術服務 資訊服務 社會服務這在你們的條文上面是基於哪一個部分您問得非常對 所以這件事情基本上我們已經把這前7年的招標過程交給政風處處理"},{"start":3912.125,"end":3916.166,"text":"你們交給政府去處理了我什麼時候可以拿到這樣的一個報告資料因為你看他連證據有的是偽照的而且我最終要提出來這個廠商從2017年到現在已經37項政府的一個補助光是從這個總金額是從460到1400多得到7000多萬的補助台灣管就佔了1259萬所以說呢你這個高層有關台灣的管理高層你認為誰該負責"},{"start":3941.909,"end":3962.651,"text":"我覺得這個事情我們已經經過處理過就是一個政風處直接去查這個整個這7年來的這個招標過程第二台風管本身也提出來要懲處這個懲辦人員另外首長副首副首長也提出自行處分所以我在這裡跟大家講我是第一我第一個來到"},{"start":3963.692,"end":3974.459,"text":"文化部就遇到這個問題這是等於送給我一個禮物因為文化部會發生這種抄襲事件對我來講非常痛心因為我們一直在強調我們台灣要有自己的IP"},{"start":3975.765,"end":3986.055,"text":"我們要自己的IP﹖這個IP包括剛剛我講到﹖電影也好﹖文學也好﹖動漫也好對﹖好﹖部長既然有政風粗我們希望他最後給我們一個非常清楚的部分因為我今天要特別提到的是不管是抄襲問題或是我剛剛所提到的這是限制性的問題抄襲包括這個主視覺當然每個人都說要去跟這個所謂的法國藝術家來做一個致敬"},{"start":3997.526,"end":3997.666,"text":"你是說哪一個?"},{"start":4018.338,"end":4025.204,"text":"這個他果然沒看過韓劇對完全沒有進入到這個我好像很難評論他有沒有抄襲總而言之這個東西見仁見智所以他剛剛就已經特別提到當我們認為有抄襲的時候他馬上這個單位就馬上告訴我們我們是在跟藝術來做致敬這也是沒有辦法說服我們的我們回到我剛剛說的這個什麼限制性的招標目前"},{"start":4039.517,"end":4045.96,"text":"真的引起最大的爭議就是1624我不管它的內容我只管它的一個經費部長你可以從這個地方來你們說沒有完全排擠其他補助但是我還是要指出來你們文化部動用兩個項目一個就是有關表演藝術的輔助推動你們編列的3億多但是呢你光是補助這個劇你就占了文化部的四分之一然後呢你去有關於你們占用另外一部分是傳統藝術的推廣計劃"},{"start":4067.83,"end":4068.831,"text":"沒關係我還是要部長回應"},{"start":4086.206,"end":4107.452,"text":"我先回到這個戲這個戲我沒有看過部長你針對他的預算經費預算經費的限制性招標的這個部分來我還是要把這個部分據我了解這個案子是從傳譯中心直接來跟文化部申請但他所用的費用不如外面所講的那樣子說他排擠了其他的費用"},{"start":4108.152,"end":4112.916,"text":"但是一組戲兩天來燒掉八千六百萬你不覺得這樣的一個製作你剛還特別提到我們的資源的分配你把文化部可以的部分你卻花了兩八千六百萬裡面來去做這樣的一個處理我覺得你從人文文人的一個腳步來看你覺得藝術團體每個人都渴望得到一些很多的補助你覺得為這樣的一個音樂劇燒掉這麼多的錢部長你覺得從這第一眼來看你覺得合理嗎"},{"start":4133.154,"end":4148.046,"text":"其實124是一個非常大的特例因為它配合這個台南建成400年以我個人做過戲劇的經驗我昨天晚上特別把這個整個看一遍因為我沒有看過這個戲的表演可是裡面非常多我的朋友"},{"start":4148.706,"end":4153.372,"text":"他們的反應都非常的驚訝如果你文化部的經費可以提供給其他人經費有這麼多我完全同意我現在只告訴你當你在有限制的經費之下面分配這麼多的部分然後收到這麼多的錢然後呢"},{"start":4164.785,"end":4171.71,"text":"最重要的是他還是屬於一個限制性的一個招標所以本席時間的關係我還是強烈的希望部長你可以在最快的時間當中呢可不可以把這個1624所有的花費的項目如果這麼樣子覺得沒有排擠到不然上網公告然後呢三天之內提供評審委員的名單我覺得我們還是要在這個部分你們還是要對查清楚我們做得到所有的經費什麼花費然後整個過程如何"},{"start":4192.185,"end":4196.027,"text":"對你上網公布這些經費因為有太多人質疑這個部分然後有關於這個評審的審查的名單私下交給我來做這樣的處理因為我們自己內部也對這件事情有點覺得被誤會很好啊就趕快來做一些澄清啊最重要是這個地方裡面有非常多的其他的文化團體是對這件事情是很有想法的"},{"start":4215.197,"end":4227.967,"text":"這些都是你很關切的這些文化團體還是一句話當你經費有限的時候你應該做最好的一個分配而不是獨宗說這個很好你要是有這麼上百億的經費上百千萬的經費你要多做這個我沒有意見更何況兩天8600萬所以我本期強烈要求我需要把這個所有的細項全部可以告訴我一下"},{"start":4235.913,"end":4263.166,"text":"謝謝,謝謝"},{"start":4264.363,"end":4270.145,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝克森昭偉部長請回好我們接下來請洪孟凱委員主席謝謝麻煩請李遠部長好有請李部長部長好"},{"start":4293.035,"end":4317.962,"text":"部長您是文化人而且非常大家都知道您也叫小野如果說之後有人稱你小野部長您介意嗎我無所謂因為在台灣已經蠻多叫小野的小野當然是很典型也很形象鮮明但本席先提剛剛我覺得蠻特別的走過了那麼多部會聽過那麼多部長的業務報告"},{"start":4322.776,"end":4350.689,"text":"包含之前的史哲部長之前的李永德部長但您是第一位報告完之後臺下的這些同仁幫你鼓掌的所以我也希望不要說我們的這個文化增強了馬屁文化我想這樣不好再來之前也有媒體報導講說小野化不要那我不知道說您看到這個小野化的部分好像也有點汙名您自己怎麼看"},{"start":4351.992,"end":4352.713,"text":"我從頭到尾大概創作50年齁"},{"start":4376.988,"end":4396.442,"text":"來﹗"},{"start":4396.582,"end":4414.008,"text":"今天你自己之前有講過是說這個文化禮經的部分你剛也特別業務報告紙本裡面沒有寫但是你口頭有講說希望能夠推動從現在的16歲到22歲然後往下延伸到12歲對不對這是你的理念跟想法"},{"start":4415.258,"end":4435.808,"text":"13岁13岁因为您刚口頭講的是說到12岁對那您剛的用意是說希望能夠推廣童書啊台灣的童書不只是童書我覺得我們的小孩從小學三四年級之後就進入到另外一個領域就是他幾乎不看書了他也沒有耐心看電影了他完全投入了打電動"},{"start":4436.929,"end":4455.846,"text":"然後看剛剛講短影音所以我覺得文化要向下扎根的話文化幣是一個前面已經推動一段時間發現效果很好的一個東西本席這一點也是想要提出來就是說歷任的文化部長就有提到就是說雖然文化扎根都非常重要本席也非常認同"},{"start":4456.767,"end":4470.316,"text":"本期完全認同是說文化的力量就是能夠壯大我們國家的力量這點過去到現在我都支持但是大家會認為是說這就是有點傻逼的一個嫌疑啊怎麼樣能夠擺脫這個傻逼的嫌疑而不是只是"},{"start":4471.587,"end":4494.289,"text":"就是不是只是推出這樣的一個政策來討好民眾這邊你怎麼看這個不算啥比如在歐洲很多國家是有這種這種文化的國家的年齡層有含瓜到那麼廣嗎從一開始我們講說文化必是所謂的成年禮金到22歲22歲往下延伸到16歲16歲之後新任部長在上任之後再往下12歲"},{"start":4496.274,"end":4517.58,"text":"每一任部長上任之後只是不斷的把那個範圍給擴大但是文化禮金或是所謂的文化幣的部分也層出不窮有一些濫用的一個方式包括說之前有傳出說美容美甲店也可以收文化幣包括說文化幣也可以買一些相關東西到時候還要文化部出來認證說文化幣禁止買相關東西"},{"start":4520.426,"end":4539.143,"text":"這個東西其實我覺得我們在限制上買什麼東西這個透過我們文化幣使用之後我們可以滾動的來討論所以推動往下延伸到13歲因為在法國大概11歲在法國11歲就可以領取台灣想要確認一下您是不是在今年一定會推動"},{"start":4539.944,"end":4558.691,"text":"今年年底的總預算會送出來明年我希望如此因為我算過一下大概要增加大概50萬人然後大概6億左右我再一次強調他不是傻逼因為我覺得台灣的教育把小孩子當小孩子從來沒有把小孩子當大人"},{"start":4559.531,"end":4574.218,"text":"提早給他接受文化藝術這是台灣一直的問題沒有問題部長你提出來政策你為政策負責所以我們會來檢視你的政策但是這是你所提出來第一個首要的政策就對了沒錯"},{"start":4575.618,"end":4590.946,"text":"再來 既然講到電影本席也非常喜歡看電影之前你當然也有虧過別人說不懂文化要常看電影那其實我覺得剛剛你跟委員來討論的時候並不是講到抖音我聽您的講法您講的是說"},{"start":4594.292,"end":4614.923,"text":"﹗"},{"start":4615.043,"end":4636.237,"text":"有什麼五分鐘看完一部電影七分鐘看完一部電影這可能都跟您的理念有相抵觸之處沒錯包括說我也發現很多人是一部小說用嘴巴講的嘴巴講要很快講完所以我們已經失去了沒有深層的思考沒有深入的判斷沒有看到原文原作"},{"start":4645.583,"end":4673.652,"text":"剛剛講的那種都是一個生活裡的短短的一個娛樂而已它不是一個文化那這樣子部長您的責任非常重大因為你變成是說要跟現在所有市面上所有短影音所有這一些影片來相抗衡流行總是會過去的我覺得我不是要相抗衡我只能做我能做到的部分比如說我剛才講到文化幣當我們把文化幣放下去它要怎麼使用你能做到的部分我們來談一談來下一頁"},{"start":4675.836,"end":4699.961,"text":"之前你有提過少了中港電影的金馬獎該是告別的時刻了所以現在要跟金馬獎告別嗎金馬獎越做越好為什麼要告別金馬獎其實你看齁金馬獎存在的台灣的電影的重要性從他的現在增加那個電影劇本比賽金水獎比賽所以當初2019年你講告別是要怎麼告別"},{"start":4701.372,"end":4706.117,"text":"這是您的標題啊這個文化週報小野不是你啊還是這是另外一位當然是我啊是啊那2019年的小野說要跟金馬獎告別"},{"start":4718.795,"end":4719.536,"text":"該式告別的時刻"},{"start":4735.157,"end":4755.264,"text":"完全認同所以本席不只要求文化部不能把金馬獎廢除本席更認為說金馬獎是華人世界的指標更應該海納百川讓所有人都覺得說來參加金馬獎來得到金馬獎是一種光榮是至高無上的榮耀你認同吧完全認同"},{"start":4757.148,"end":4783.053,"text":"最後既然要講到電影既然要說你要說長篇的電影本席很認同啊所以我們要怎麼樣鼓勵大家能夠進電影院看電影或是說鼓勵大家進現場看表演那其中就有了我們之前討論沸沸揚揚的黃牛因為黃牛主來很多本來想要進去看表演現場看表演的人沒有辦法買到票而造成說黃牛持續的加價"},{"start":4784.013,"end":4809.351,"text":"那之前這就技術性層面喔可是我覺得新任部長就應該要有能力來解決這些技術性層面的問題三個禮拜前文化部次長在這邊我們詢問就說文創法創法之後反而很多黃牛轉型為詐騙連票都沒有變成說我們修法要對付黃牛反而會讓黃牛變成是詐騙集團另外還有變種黃牛就是榜物販售"},{"start":4810.592,"end":4822.518,"text":"我票用原價賣,但是你要買一支麥克風,麥克風一支賣兩萬塊,送你兩張原價的票那當初有講是說要找相關的單位研議,請問現在有沒有相關的辦法?所以明後天能夠提出來一個有效解決的方法?"},{"start":4835.284,"end":4853.874,"text":"這個其實針對這個黃流的事情其實已經推出非常非常多次的那個方法但是它的演變就像詐騙起來一樣對沒錯三個禮拜前當然那個時候還是在新就任政府交接的時候可是行政沒有空窗期行政沒有休息期啊"},{"start":4854.758,"end":4879.678,"text":"那我們現在講說你一個月內要提出相關的辦法眼看一個月就要到了怎麼樣能夠告訴國人說我們有心能夠解決這個問題並且有效嚇阻黃牛我想說我們盡快的再提出一個書面跟您報告一下什麼時候可以就一個月多久一個月不是你當初承諾一個月現在時間到了本期是在追進度"},{"start":4881.823,"end":4906.511,"text":"是不是還沒有開會到?您還沒有掌握到?沒關係,部長您才上任第二天嘛,沒有問題很多事情方方面面本席只想提醒這件事情一樣重要就代表是您剛剛注意要大家進劇場進電影院看劇看表演都要注意到這個部分一個禮拜內跟本席書面資料可以嗎?可以嗎?OK可以好最後部長"},{"start":4908.75,"end":4932.346,"text":"來下一頁2008年你呼籲企業要贊助有一些譬如說像長篇小說創作等等的部分我想這可能是針對作家其實本行業很認同我們之前也有修過相關的法令就希望是說企業能夠幹嘛減稅來提供給一些文創公司來去做誘因讓企業真正能夠因為說實在話"},{"start":4934.616,"end":4959.637,"text":"一般的獲利盈利的這個廠商他如果說沒有足夠用意他也不會想要去資助但是如果說你有一些誘因譬如說減稅你就可能會讓這一些大企業來資助小說家資助藝文創作者資助表演團體資助文創公司那我們之前來提出的都是比較針對公司的部分個人的部分以及說能不能加強這個力道"},{"start":4960.558,"end":4976.739,"text":"您現在還是一樣的主張嗎?對,因為我最近參加一個小型的活動發現韓國的繪本遠遠超過台灣原因也很簡單韓國的大企業直接一家投資一個繪本作家這個觀念在台灣還沒有辦法做到他們怎麼做的?"},{"start":4978.052,"end":5004.763,"text":"我覺得讓我們的企業本身對於台灣的文化這件事情覺得很重要的除了我們用ESG文化的認同嘛 對不對那還有一定是有政策的鼓勵比如說也許企業能夠給他提升企業正向的形象以及企業給他資助之後可能有一些減稅的誘因是不是這樣一個推力一個拉力嘛沒錯這兩種同時要讓他願意投資文化"},{"start":5005.728,"end":5034.066,"text":"好,非常高興在第一天的這個部長的專案報告裡面有聽到這樣的一個說法本席將來也會推動我們相關的企業在支柱我們不管是藝術家表演團體公司都會有更強大的誘因能夠減稅提升正面形象也請部長一定一起支持讓我們營造更好的藝文環境這樣可以嗎?可以謝謝謝謝部長"},{"start":5036.732,"end":5041.154,"text":"好謝謝謝謝侯孟楷委員部長請回我們接下來請羅廷偉委員主席謝謝有請部長好有請李部長部長好你好部長那我就直接稱呼你小野部長好"},{"start":5066.873,"end":5093.172,"text":"新的新政喔想必部長也有很多的一個報復跟施政的藍圖但是我看完今天的這個業務報告內容喔心中不免有個疑問想跟你請教一下今天的內容邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況所以今天這一場到底是文化部的報告還是李遠部長的報告還是小野部長的報告這個施政藍圖業務報告為什麼我要這樣說"},{"start":5095.874,"end":5112.108,"text":"今天的書面報告裡面有高達99.1%的內容跟3月27史澤部長業務報告的內容一樣像推動台語的主流化公視兒少開台重建台灣藝術史振興出版產業"},{"start":5115.376,"end":5138.355,"text":"如果這是文化部的業務報告那好像誰來做部長都差不多但如果底下因為底下的有一群職業文官會做事他們可以維持業務運作部長只是掛名那今天這個業務報告我們希望他能夠論述到是部長您未來的一個抱負跟他的一個藍圖很顯然的這份報告我看不到"},{"start":5139.366,"end":5159.158,"text":"有您的概念跟未來的抱負當然有一些我有從所謂的新聞包括文化幣向下延伸這是你的一個想法我們想要認識想要了解的包括剛剛孟凱委員他也想知道金馬獎一次你的態度所以我們想更認識的是小野部長"},{"start":5159.938,"end":5175.772,"text":"您個人在未來的一個想法看法以及準備要做的而不是原本3月27號本來文化部就要做的事情今天又再一次的在這邊跟我們再講一次所以部長可以談一下你心中的一個抱負跟藍圖嗎我覺得"},{"start":5179.81,"end":5191.143,"text":"我心目中覺得台灣的文化包括剛剛講到因為我自己經歷過電影電視還有文學你如果要用簡單的方式講我的抱負的話我覺得台灣這個"},{"start":5193.923,"end":5219.375,"text":"經過歷史的一種撞擊出來的文化我希望所有台灣人會對自己的文化感到驕傲而不是覺得很自卑要去追求韓國日本從外來的文化得到一種滋養你如果問我的抱負是這個我就只有這個抱負但是根據你剛剛講的那個業務報告的確是那我一點一點會把我想要做的事情再慢慢讓大家知道"},{"start":5221.172,"end":5247.084,"text":"好,上任才兩天嘛當然我們不能怪你但是我要講的就是說文化部我們認識了因為這幾個月我們都在了解但如果這份報告裡面有太少有關於您未來想做的我覺得那我們就沒有必要去再做這麼多的一個溝通了那因為我就是跟以往的使政部長都差不多嘛那所以包括剛剛我覺得聽到你這樣講"},{"start":5249.009,"end":5264.647,"text":"你是一個廣義的一個創作家算是一個創作家所以對黃牛我也很重視所以我更希望包括剛剛你說一個月份可以看到書面報告黃牛的處理方法這部分我也想要了解也麻煩你讓我也知道會後的相關資料"},{"start":5266.169,"end":5284.365,"text":"那之前我也有在這裡質詢過包括我們企業應該要協助不管是繪本也好或者是相關的文化產業也罷我在這邊提到我們的孩子接觸到的是國外的繪本國外的卡通國外的電影"},{"start":5285.186,"end":5314.175,"text":"所以我在這邊也提過包括我們最近孩子一直在接觸到的蘑菇蘑菇這一類的在地的影音繪本我們能夠加強所以我也希望你的態度展現出來未來能夠在這個文化部分能夠給予企業更多的鼓勵更多的一些獎勵鼓勵他們要來幫助我們在地的文化產業這部分我有聽到你剛剛的回答我感覺到有一點欣慰我們也希望能夠看到實際的作為但是我還是要跟你說文化部"},{"start":5315.339,"end":5337.168,"text":"投資都慘賠拒絕國發基金當成文化部的小金庫這件事情你有掌握到嗎我想我稍微知道我想專案投資73案投資的績效超級差扣掉民間投資的錢全部都賠償這些都是國人納稅錢幾乎都賠千萬以上我舉幾個例子有賠823萬有賠897萬"},{"start":5341.874,"end":5367.271,"text":"有賠1437萬有賠1782萬1782萬還不是賠最多的本席留一點面子給文化部給部長不要點破專案投資是文化部所獨有的一個政策這沒有什麼不好我們支持也支持要振興地方的產業我們台灣的文化但是我們要防止他濫用我還是要再說一次投資有賺有賠但是每一個案子都是慘賠"},{"start":5368.812,"end":5393.553,"text":"我們就會擔心會不會有濫用的問題之前時哲部長回覆我一個電影跟IP作品的發行他的回收時間是長的部長時哲部長根本是鬼扯以電影來說票房還是最重要的數據難道不是嗎部長是我想不是請不然請部長能夠舉出電影票房不好但總回收很好的電影嗎你有想像到嗎"},{"start":5397.113,"end":5422.45,"text":"應該說有票房票房不好但總回收很好的電影票房不好總回收很好的電影我想是少數啦對對有一些台劇少數啦對不對但我不希望整個都是慘賠你要跟我講用少數的案例我相信還是一樣的問題那我想部長殺青是什麼意思"},{"start":5423.942,"end":5428.744,"text":"我們有殺青的時間跟通過投審會的時間以及電影上映的時間已經拍完的片子國發基金投資的決策邏輯是什麼?文化部過投審會有人看過飾片嗎?"},{"start":5455.557,"end":5479.807,"text":"其實我們每一個補助的案子他都按照他的原來的進度然後有一個評審在看 有一群評審在看我想經過投審會的時間上映時間喔只有一天你有看到我的數據如果有錯你可以糾正我如果已經拍完的片都沒有人看過視片投審會怎麼決定要不要投資部長你有沒有覺得很奇怪"},{"start":5483.615,"end":5504.262,"text":"其實電影這個行業政府補助電影這個行業電影基本上的變動拍完後再後製再延個半年一年它是一個變動很大的行業它不是一個你想像中可以按照你的時間剛好完成它有時候要趕上這個補助可能最後一天政府可能通融它讓它過"},{"start":5505.402,"end":5531.503,"text":"因為台灣拍電影的基本上都是一些小公司然後它的資金結構也不太健全我想這點的確是我們整體生態的問題我想很辛苦這些地方的文化產業我們要支持我還是絕對支持文化部支持帶動推動我們台灣的文化內容發展但文哲院我覺得在這樣子的一個做法中一天"},{"start":5532.323,"end":5547.617,"text":"還是會讓民眾會擔憂我們到底有沒有經過更審慎的去思考我想這部分我們點出來讓我們不說的難聽我們希望能夠在這個過程當中更小心翼翼的去使用每一筆人民的納稅錢可以接受嗎"},{"start":5548.177,"end":5567.929,"text":"可以啊好第二個成立南部的營運中心南部辦公室效益何在文策院在南部辦公室根據文策院所提供資料成立南部辦公室的目的是為推進台灣文化內容產業的均衡發展作用於台灣產業各區中長期的發展所需資料"},{"start":5568.709,"end":5593.138,"text":"我想部長這聽起來齁這個目標很偉大啦但是設一個南部辦公室在高雄那中部辦公室可能也需要喔中部辦公室中部的文化中部的產業也需要推廣也需要這麼宏大的一個目標可不可以中部也設一個這件事情我還沒有搞懂欸為什麼要南部設一個中部設一個這個我還沒搞懂我是不是請蔡董事長解釋蔡董事長"},{"start":5595.9,"end":5607.44,"text":"我會讓他時間解釋啊但我的意思是說你要推廣文化就要在南部設立就可以推廣代表你有這麼宏大的一個目標嘛設立這個就可以推廣那中部也要啊"},{"start":5608.496,"end":5637.794,"text":"那如果你說南部一個中部一個那北部一個就夠啦台北文化部就可以處理整個台灣的文化那為什麼一定要特別南部再一個我想聽起來很偉大但是設一個辦公室到底有沒有必要性那為什麼南部辦公室要設在高雄屏東不行嗎台南不行嗎我想剛剛講的一些業務一定要專門設一個辦公室才能做這讓大家真的感受到問題在哪裡剛剛講的那些業務台北不能做"},{"start":5639.281,"end":5657.86,"text":"我想部長我們看跑步影3根據合約租約從去年9月1號開始7個月過去了為什麼到現在還沒有人員進駐這個好像是文策院內部的董事會在提這個我完全不知道這件事情董事長請"},{"start":5660.882,"end":5687.252,"text":"不好意思 我幫部長回答一下這是文策略內的業務南部辦公室的成立其實因為我們使用博二的共創園區二區使用之道還沒拿到我們還無法正式的在營業那上個月剛剛拿到了目前為止我們所編列的人員也還沒有對外正式在recruit我們只有沿用文策略內部的一名員工用最精簡的人力那未來如果委員覺得中部有可能來設辦公室我們會積極審慎的評估跟考慮"},{"start":5689.853,"end":5712.567,"text":"董事長那我想請問一下租業從去年9月1號開始7個月過去了租金有算嗎?租金要算因為要裝潢阿對所以使用執照還沒有拿到嘛沒辦法進租對不對所以每月租金10萬7千100元7個月空屋擺在那國人納稅錢已經被浪費掉74萬9千700元當然我們說裝潢啦我們有沒有跟這個房東都講一個裝潢期"},{"start":5714.92,"end":5741.363,"text":"正常我們都會跟房東講吧是我們各種談判跟高雄那邊文化局都有談過那事實上其實我們所談的discount是從整個的房租優惠談起啦所以你覺得這個十萬七千有優惠有優惠有優惠是470萬的裝潢費目前裝潢進度在哪目前裝潢完畢裝潢完畢裝潢完畢好那我想死照都還沒拿到就趕裝潢萬一他沒拿到死照勒"},{"start":5742.946,"end":5744.446,"text":"那因為現在已經拿到了,謝謝委員關心"},{"start":5770.791,"end":5797.866,"text":"那我想這都是我們所關心的一個項目啦但我還是希望這個文策院中部辦公室臺中中章頭是不是能夠考慮一下中部辦公室請委員多多給一些意見我們自己選區嘛包括我們的臺中國漫館包括我們臺中文化部以及我們的那個酒廠復興路的酒廠文化酒廠這都可以做一個相關設置相關來探討再多跟委員討論好不好好"},{"start":5798.746,"end":5821.153,"text":"好那最後剛剛好像有其他的委員有提到這個文學館抄襲的事件我想再一次請問一下部長請問一下最後這個館長說要負責是怎麼負責這件事情我們已經進行是下台嗎我不會這麼用這麼粗暴的語言說我要他怎樣怎樣但是我必須跟大家講我絕對不會那個"},{"start":5824.479,"end":5852.608,"text":"讓這個責任只推到這個第一線的這個職員對但是我也沒辦法很粗暴的告訴你說我要換掉誰換掉誰我覺得這樣講好像只是一個誠意識之快對畢竟我我再沒有當文化部長之前我跟這個台文館也接觸過好幾年當評審我覺得裡面的很多員工都蠻優秀的所以我們我雖然知道抄襲這些事情是一個非常不應該的而且是很嚴重的但是我也不會因為這樣子就"},{"start":5853.649,"end":5878.697,"text":"沒有把清楚事情搞清楚之後做出懲處但是我答應委員我立刻會做出決定我想我不認識這個館長我跟他也沒有任何的恩怨拿下他讓他下台對我來說一點幫助也沒有我們要的也不是任何一個人下台我們要的是負起責任改善這個問題未來不要再有發生這才是國人想看到的"},{"start":5879.477,"end":5893.644,"text":"今天把別人鬥倒對我們來說不會有任何加分今天把你烤倒對我來說我不會有多好我們要的是文化越來越好台灣越來越好我們一起努力這樣可以嗎謝謝當然是好謝謝好謝謝羅廷偉委員部長請回那我們接下來請葛如君委員"},{"start":5916.668,"end":5920.731,"text":"謝謝主席有請文化部李遠部長有請李部長"},{"start":5931.243,"end":5955.233,"text":"感謝部長,您是我的偶像所以有機會在這裡跟您做互動覺得很感謝但是最近政府機關裡頭發生了一些超人特工隊的案件這個超是疑似抄襲的超第一件是前幾天剛舉行的520就職大典根據府方的回覆這個典禮主視覺的設計費"},{"start":5958.865,"end":5962.248,"text":"請問一下部長您覺得36萬單位是台幣還是美金36萬是美金嗎不會吧你相信是台幣嗎你覺得我們4年一次的典禮的主視覺總計劃案的設計費2300萬裡面竟然只有36萬去畫這樣的一個主視覺的圖您相信嗎"},{"start":5986.674,"end":6005.347,"text":"這是我們台灣的設計水平嗎?希望慢慢搞清楚齁 這個真的太重要了齁昨天才有的政黨說民主已死今天民主還活著所以我們今天可以在這裡互動對話但是我們的設計是不是已死啊相信台灣的設計沒有已死齁"},{"start":6006.568,"end":6024.93,"text":"我想問這樣子的一個圖像我可能還要講一下你才會知道哪一邊是哪一邊右邊是那個儀式的原創者左邊是我們的典禮用的視覺假設您是國外圖的創作者您會不會覺得有一點抄襲的可能"},{"start":6027.856,"end":6040.182,"text":"其實抄襲的認定在法律上非常複雜我知道你會這樣回答沒有關係所以我剛剛先問您設身處地您還不願意也沒有關係我慢慢培養默契那我們依據廠商說明這個貓狗徽章的設計這個是以公私購入的商用授權的素材庫來做的為此我們還向總統府來調閱資料說這個16屆的總統這個副總統候選人的這個典禮絕標金額2350萬"},{"start":6057.671,"end":6062.795,"text":"不要講剛剛那個只有36萬徽章的部分不屬於政府採購的標案這邊產生了很多的疑問請問部長認同廠商的說法用免費素材我們剛剛講36萬他說他還用了一些素材那這個貓狗的說是免費的素材在製作服務文化部所謂的文創設計嗎我先問這個問題但我先補充您一下我最崇拜的台灣電影的導演楊德昌"},{"start":6083.951,"end":6099.096,"text":"他最後一部電影一一這個取名是叫道生一一生二二生三三生萬物道是最難的道生一也是很難的原創是最重要的我看到您微笑我相信你很理解請問這樣算原創嗎如果是我的標準我從以前到現在我都很希望從最原始來第二都是來自自己如果用我的標準"},{"start":6112.543,"end":6116.447,"text":"我不知道算不算原創因為要是我會自己重新花一次狗一次貓"},{"start":6117.878,"end":6141.525,"text":"好 我想沒關係 這個謝謝您非常誠懇的答覆我想我們也知道了部長還是很尊重原創我還是要非常感謝那我想這個部長的行政約例其實也很豐富那不屬於政府採購得標的即便廠商免費提供我們可以隨便採用嗎我問林總有就職典禮這麼重要的活動這個徽章他說不屬於政府採購標案應該可以隨便發放嗎"},{"start":6145.408,"end":6149.676,"text":"這個應該可以回答 這沒有主觀的問題嘛我在我的文化部 我希望沒有這種事情"},{"start":6151.533,"end":6179.912,"text":"那這樣文化部有點打臉總統府沒有關係啦我相信你們不是這個意思那我們來看第二個案例超人特工隊的第二支與文化部更為相關的因為你剛剛說那是總統府我們來看一下文化部的這個巴黎文化奧運台灣館的主視覺用了一個叫emoji的東西就表情符號跟apple的系列iOS的系列的emoji高度相似疑似有抄襲的可能而且該案正好跟520的主視覺設計師"},{"start":6182.294,"end":6187.898,"text":"他應該是一個幽默吧應該是一個幽默的 有點有趣的有沒有版權有沒有版權"},{"start":6207.998,"end":6225.57,"text":"這就是文化部官員的表情面面相覷我可以告訴你們除了開源的emoji以外emoji的版權屬於設計這組符號的供應商以巴黎文化奧運台灣館的主事節為例假如作者真的有使用或參考apple的像不像"},{"start":6228.936,"end":6247.532,"text":"分得出來嗎?字額又太小左邊是Apple右邊是文化部產出的成果再來左邊是Apple右邊是文化部產出的結果如果真的有使用或參考Apple的Emoji必須諮詢Apple法律部門並申請表情符號的使用授權"},{"start":6248.473,"end":6248.854,"text":"目前沒有"},{"start":6262.605,"end":6279.618,"text":"很好 謝謝您的誠懇答覆此案其實是民眾陳情請文化部就本案Emoji的授權請醒於一週內以書面方式回覆本席辦公室否則真的是設計要以死了最後一個案子還沒完超人特工隊還沒完剛剛很多人已經問了"},{"start":6282.06,"end":6306.755,"text":"那剛剛部長也很誠懇的答覆我們不應該推給第一線那我直接問您一個問題部長能不能在此是否應該先代表文化部向原會師表示歉意不要推給第一線嘛沒有問題我願意代表文化部向原會師道歉我也願意向所有其實非常期待那個台灣有自己原創的人道歉"},{"start":6308.695,"end":6331.224,"text":"謝謝部長接下來還是希望除了道歉以外要完成清查還有沒有台灣館的相關案例有涉及抄襲第二審查的流程未來能不能禁止這方面的事情再次發生另外有沒有行政的疏失也希望部長不是只有道歉我相信您的行動力也是很強的我們一起來努力再來還沒有結束請教一下部長這個我們就不放了剛剛都講過了"},{"start":6336.086,"end":6361.067,"text":"這個影像我相信部長應該可以理解我真的是您的粉絲啦這個影像我真的是看到在投影片上我都感動會哭接下來要請教一下部長您是台灣新電影的重要推手之一那我也在無數的演講我自己的官方網站裡都隨時都放著楊德昌導演的電影對我的啟發那您也是這些導演的背後的一個非常重要的一個推手"},{"start":6361.767,"end":6382.359,"text":"那1980年代的時候您在一個社會氛圍非常嚴厲的情況之下你們竟然能夠一起團隊的去創造了台灣新電影的時期這個您曾經甚至有說過一句名言作品本身具有實驗性和原創性如果在票房上失敗了就算要拍8部拍10部都值得"},{"start":6382.779,"end":6401.976,"text":"如果因為模仿抄襲而獲得的利潤並不值得鼓勵部長您今天以文化部部長的身份到立院備詢相隔40多年我想再次請教對電影來講最重要的東西到底是什麼是實驗性原創性利潤票房還是特效還是精美的畫質您的想法有改變嗎"},{"start":6403.285,"end":6421.852,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":6421.952,"end":6449.103,"text":"有限的經費裡面我們是非常鼓勵實驗電影的比如短片那個經費在有限不用面對觀眾的情況下我是非常支持拍實驗電影報告文化部部長那您剛好去檢討一下金鐘獎把那個短片變成只有60分鐘以上才能參賽我們之後再聊這個議題那我們來看一下這一本書會去台流文化黑草台流文化內容的躍升計畫不知道您有沒有看過"},{"start":6450.423,"end":6474.103,"text":"這裡面爭取到4年100億的黑潮計畫但是頭也不是尾也不是裡面對於實驗性和原創性隻字未提然後你說如果要砸大錢進去拍呢很抱歉影視音文化的內容竟然只有17億元請教一下部長您當時推動這個光音的故事我們都知道想要拍怪獸片"},{"start":6474.844,"end":6475.485,"text":"您剛才講到關於的故事"},{"start":6494.74,"end":6523.293,"text":"讓我回到1980年代那個時候就是因為那家電影公司每次投資都四千萬五千萬就虧光了才輪到我們這些年輕人進去我記得關於故事只花四百萬然後小屁的故事也四百萬結果賣到三四千萬所以我觀念中一直不覺得電影是完全可以靠金錢來堆砌它也可以有很好的巧思在不高的預算下可以大賣所以我在台灣這個環境中投資太高"},{"start":6524.488,"end":6524.508,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":6536.71,"end":6562.499,"text":"所以謝謝部長這樣的一個精神我想數十年如一日就像您的光陰的故事數十年就像一部電影一樣這一本書裡面一百億沒有提到原創性沒有提到實驗性我們希望黑潮的計畫可以在您的領導之下有新的風貌近來台灣不管是電影或戲劇作品都非常的辛苦但是我們有您當年的帶領我們可以想像"},{"start":6563.439,"end":6590.116,"text":"我們台灣的電影是可以有活力跟朝氣的那部長有沒有信心在文化部長任內找回那個具有實驗性原創性的台灣電影文化再造台灣的電影讓場我們有沒有信心如果不是這個原因我就不會來這邊當部長好期待您早日提出小野版本的黑潮計畫我給你一個暱稱啦野黑潮好不好希望呢我們未來呢可以一起為台灣的文化共同努力謝謝你謝謝"},{"start":6595.101,"end":6597.563,"text":"謝謝謝謝葛如君委員部長請回好我們接下來請陳秀寶委員謝謝主席請部長好有請林部長"},{"start":6620.711,"end":6635.039,"text":"部長早安首先先向部長說歡迎來到文化部與我們教育委員會的委員們一同為相關的影視與文化出版業產業一同努力那先請教部長針對近期台灣館這個爭議"},{"start":6640.042,"end":6653.698,"text":"其實這個事件從一開始從否認晉升到產成其實讓民眾一直感覺說一頭霧水也質疑說我們台灣館在整個事件中這個監督驗收的工作是不是沒有做好"},{"start":6654.418,"end":6678.877,"text":"甚至媒體有報導說當初廠商還指稱以為只要批圖就沒事民眾都覺得這個非常的荒謬那這邊想請教喔臺文館是屬於文化部管轄那在整個事件呢臺文館有沒有主動向文化部求助通報或者請求協助那文化部是臺文館這邊主動向你們告上報還是說你們是看了新聞才知道這點我不知道因為那是我還沒有來之前發生的"},{"start":6683.135,"end":6707.76,"text":"報告委員我們是有兩個管道啦一方面新聞出來了以後那臺文館也有做一個緊急呈報單所以文化部才深入去了解這整個案子應該還是就是說看到新聞才知道齁那如果說其實臺文這個有兩個部分啦如果說臺文館是被廠商蒙騙那這邊其實我跟民眾一樣也要質疑說臺文館的對驗收監督的這個方面是有瑕疵的"},{"start":6708.18,"end":6714.587,"text":"但如果說台灣館他在過程中沒有向文化部這邊上報請求協助那這邊其實也要質疑說台灣館官方方面領單方面的聽信廠商的片面支持也沒有主動去查證一開始就聽廠商的話還否認所以說這個不僅是有瑕疵其實很嚴重的失職喔"},{"start":6727.782,"end":6751.027,"text":"那這個部分呢其實台灣館如果能基本的驗收工作跟查核工作都做不好民眾會質疑說以我們文化部的專業以台灣館的專業竟然發生這樣子荒謬的情勢是不是基本辨識能力有問題所以發生這樣的事情我相信說大家也應該從這個事件裡面有學到教訓我希望說針對本案文化部是不是兩週之內你們一個檢討報告給本席好嗎"},{"start":6751.587,"end":6755.448,"text":"好沒有問題謝謝委員好謝謝好那接下來這邊跟部長您討論一開始確定是由您來接任文化部的部長時期文化界是一片好評非常的期待那您的影視出版的資歷相當的豐富過去教育委員會也針對出版業這個蕭條提出很多的關心跟質詢"},{"start":6773.495,"end":6781.238,"text":"業者：業界也希望說部長您可以升級出版業：對出版業能夠多多的協助：更希望說部長您可以帶動台灣影視的潮流那在今天文化部的書面報告裡面有指出未來會加強扶植童書及繪本"},{"start":6791.602,"end":6800.225,"text":"並演繹創作獎勵金、出版媒合以及推廣相關的輔導措施。在這邊要請教部長,針對創作獎勵金的部分,部長您初步的構想是什麼?原來我們對於出版本來就有一些獎勵的部分。我個人對於推廣童書也好、繪本也好,我覺得"},{"start":6818.641,"end":6842.995,"text":"市場本身很重要就是有人在看這些書他才有地方可以去那我將來我的做法會是還是跟前面講一樣我想找到很多企業來贊助這些繪本作家跟童書作家然後推廣這些活動讓很多人覺得讀台灣的童書台灣自己作家童書跟台灣自己作家的繪本那個是一種"},{"start":6844.195,"end":6864.552,"text":"很有趣的事情那我們文化部會研擬更多的獎勵辦法這個獎勵辦法本身我想是要那部長您有這樣的想法本席也非常的支持那預計什麼時候會將這些構想來實現有沒有會做一個怎樣的方案有沒有怎樣的時程其實我們從110年到112年已經大概補助了40個案子嘛然後獎勵已經大概1100萬這個部分"},{"start":6873.237,"end":6897.587,"text":"我想我們會繼續推動會不會繼續擴大規模呢應該會假如我們要編列明年的預算的時候因為部長您所說的這個一千一百萬嗎是針對所有的出版還是只有針對同時跟繪本的部分我覺得這個費用對於台灣的原創繪本實在太少了一點在投資上面我覺得補助裡面台灣的這個文學作品也好"},{"start":6898.767,"end":6924.258,"text":"同書也好 繪本也好 有點被忽略因為繪本是非常重要因為它是一個視覺上的東西然後很多國家都把自己的繪本當作是一個推出去讓別人認識自己國家的一個方法尤其是兒童在看繪本可以影響到兒童對於美術的欣賞對於故事的了解所以這一點會是我未來應該是在預算上的編列還有在活動上的舉辦我會加強"},{"start":6926.415,"end":6941.741,"text":"這個部分本席也會支持,其實同事會本的獎勵我非常的肯定,非常的支持越小的孩子對於閱讀習慣的養成更容易成為他生活的日常而且小時候閱讀的這些印象很容易就是說潛移默化的效果會更好"},{"start":6942.461,"end":6965.331,"text":"所以說我很希望說部長竟然你有這樣的用心也有這樣子的規劃的話盡快的讓這樣的構想可以實現然後我們把期程定出來而且以您的資歷跟您目前的職位產業界其實對您的期待非常的高甚至希望說部長您是不是可以研擬出一個10年的一個出版業的政策方向我們是不是可以朝這個方向來努力可以啊"},{"start":6966.687,"end":6967.947,"text":"對我期待一個城市不要"},{"start":6980.523,"end":6981.724,"text":"謝謝部長希望可以將這些期望盡快的付諸實現那接下來我們請文策院一同我要請教關於我們這個黑潮計畫這個部分"},{"start":7010.929,"end":7012.32,"text":"有請文策院蔡董事長"},{"start":7023.075,"end":7039.626,"text":"部長我先請教您去年我們為了提升台流的競爭力跟塑造台流成為世界主流也配合這個黑潮計劃等等那中華電信遠傳及台客大也宣布跟文策院這邊合作當每個電信將與文策院合作來投入的資金各有30億來助影視台流在世界發光發熱"},{"start":7046.57,"end":7064.951,"text":"那這個消息在當時傳出的時候是非常振奮整個影視界的也讓民眾非常期待有更優質的影視產品那很多位委員包括我本席也在委員會關心過那是現在想了解說目前三大電信基金的進度是什麼你們的進度現在規劃到哪裡"},{"start":7067.534,"end":7085.06,"text":"好,謝謝委員詢問,那個跟委員報告一下三大電信公司跟文策院國發基金合作影視基金這三檔基金都如火如荼在進行當中首先中華電信的基金其實已經在大概今年的二月或三月已經正式通過了中華電信他們的董事會"},{"start":7085.86,"end":7103.809,"text":"所以都而且據我知道中華電信其實為了這個基金已經找好新的辦公室都裝好完畢了也開始在外面回顧新的人力但目前就是因為文策院需要投資任何一個項目無論是小道如一部電影大道如30億基金都要通過投審會那目前投審會的時間正在跟國發基金這邊研擬當中當投審會"},{"start":7108.231,"end":7131.198,"text":"通過審議完畢之後中華電信的基金就會馬上落地開始營運那另外臺哥大跟遠傳這兩檔基金據我們所知他們目前已經都在準備商業計畫書應該是6月或7月會先通過他們內部董事會因為大型上市公司也是要公司治理那通過他們董事會之後會馬上送來我們這邊進行國發基金的投資審議委員會以上跟委員報告"},{"start":7131.838,"end":7155.098,"text":"所以現在進度最快的是中華電信沒錯,他們也目前算是三大電信公司裡面相對最積極那目前雖然基金還沒有正式成立但中華電信最近已經有別於往年了他們大概目前已經開始下場投資台灣影視作品據我知道基金還沒有成立他們目前大概用自己的錢已經大概投了大概8到10部台灣的影視作品"},{"start":7156.15,"end":7179.521,"text":"所以除了跟我們這邊合作的這些方案之外他們自己也本身也投資了因為通話電信現在已經迫不及待進場準備大展身手了謝謝董事長其實文化部跟文策院當初我們有這樣的消息傳出來說三大電信基金會駐台流這個新聞其實引起了非常多的熱烈的討論那在現在目前的情況算卡關嗎"},{"start":7180.953,"end":7207.631,"text":"不會是卡關,因為目前的確文策院過去使用國發基金投資並沒有投過這麼大筆金額的案子坦白講就光以中華電信這個案子他總基金大概30億當然文策院並不是最大股東我們大概會出大概三成左右那即便三成也有9億對國發基金來講他也是需要多點時間來瞭解我們整個準備的時間是否恰當所以不算卡關而是大家需要更多時間來做同步訊息"},{"start":7208.151,"end":7233.678,"text":"那有沒有跟國發基金這邊來溝通過說大概還要需要多久的時間才能盡快的投入我們在最近已經跟國發基金這邊新的那個執密有聯繫過我想他們最近也會有新的主委上任我們會再去拜訪跟部長一起再去拜訪然後尋求一個更積極的時間三個月內會有新的進度嗎我相信會有會齁那如果三個月之內有新的進度請向本席這邊來說明謝謝"},{"start":7235.538,"end":7242.884,"text":"好,那我再耽誤一點點時間喔我再請教我們部長喔今年的坎城影展呢媒體也說飄出了濃濃的台灣味那有幾部獲得文策院TSCP投資的這個影片也同樣在坎城影展播映讓你覺得很感動也很振奮喔但是近期呢文策院發表TSCP2.0的這個政策的部分改變的部分業界有不同的意見是不是有誤解還是有落差這邊是解釋一下"},{"start":7265.096,"end":7287.171,"text":"這個我聽說了但是你講一下好了這個我來回答齁任何一個政策其實我們都尋求最大公約數的支持那坦白說TICB1.0或2.0都有少數業者有不同看法當然我們尋求大家的共識無論通過公開說明或是私下的拜訪我們還是一一說明那這一次TICB2.0跟1.0我們所支持的作品在砍成一共有六部作品"},{"start":7287.931,"end":7288.131,"text":"獲得入圍"},{"start":7317.951,"end":7334.457,"text":"其實我們前進國際的合作是希望讓台灣有更寬廣的舞台但是這個投資策略的這個隨時檢討我們做改進是希望說能夠更完善更契合但是溝通跟討論是非常的重要不要讓就是國際間有誤會是不是我們台灣這個福祉影視的態度有改變或者說我們是說的跟做的是不一樣的這個落差所以這邊還是要強調說溝通跟討論是非常重要的好以上謝謝"},{"start":7356.605,"end":7356.925,"text":"部長好你好"},{"start":7380.966,"end":7404.96,"text":"我不期待安排您今天就來這個委員會備詢基本上是很多的這個委員都迫不及待的想看見您平常都在電視上或在報章早上看見您那所以我想今天你來擔任這個文化部長當然認眾道遠所以我想開門見商我就有一些問題想要跟您請教"},{"start":7406.361,"end":7420.671,"text":"部長你在2006年時任華視總經理那時候你批評過公共電視文化事業基金會處處干預華視導致華視非工非商那"},{"start":7422.485,"end":7449.015,"text":"就是不像啦那時候你也不惜這個辭職捍衛華視的權益那想要請教部長為了改善這個華視的經營問題你現在還有那麼那一股衝勁嗎那如果說第一步是要處理民股買回當然你又有說可能要協調修法等等那到底具體而言該怎麼做才能改善這個華視目前的狀況"},{"start":7450.421,"end":7466.841,"text":"好謝謝你問這個問題讓我有機會稍微更正一下其實我當初我覺得我們都沒有人有經驗是怎麼樣把華視捐給公視華視是35年公視是8年從來沒有人做過一個公款集團所以我必須承認我當時有一直批評"},{"start":7467.822,"end":7492.769,"text":"然後我也後來跟這個當時的公視總經理現在在場的這個胡雲輝總經理道歉因為我的語言非常粗暴所以我最後是跟他道歉完做完醫院才下來的我並沒有用辭職來抗議那事隔18年齁我們回頭看這個華視跟公視的關係第一個公安局又變得更大然後又多了一個華視新聞頻道然後本身"},{"start":7493.871,"end":7520.703,"text":"公廣集團的人員跟經費又不是18年前可以比的它變得更龐大我覺得華視的問題第一個問題是今天在台灣這麼多頻道在競爭的情況下華視如何成為一個大家都很愛看的一個電視台跟華視新聞是一個因為它播報很公正大家很喜歡看的一個華視新聞台是非常重要的第二個既然公廣廣播集團已經這麼有力量的話"},{"start":7521.403,"end":7538.821,"text":"我會希望用各種方式支持這個公安集團協助華視壯大但是華視面臨的兩個問題都是一個非常困難的問題一個就是民股買回就在我一去的那一年就發生問題因為在法律上面民股要買回這件事情"},{"start":7539.682,"end":7539.942,"text":"﹚文化委員會議"},{"start":7560.262,"end":7582.335,"text":"公共電視的條件需要執行公共電視的任務的話負負擔捐贈是一個很重要的可是因為它裡面非工非商所以負負擔捐贈不能夠捐給他但是問題也得到解決就是這幾年來文化部給了華視大概器材的整建修建還有這個"},{"start":7583.592,"end":7598.592,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":7599.132,"end":7616.338,"text":"當然看起來現在當然部長未來對於華視現在面臨的困境相信部長上任之後一定會有所改善那當然現在目前說華視究竟是商業電視台還是所謂的公共化的無線電視事業您認為呢現在的狀況"},{"start":7621.824,"end":7649.702,"text":"當初捐給公共電視的時候是希望他能夠自力更生他還是可以有商業廣告然後有商業廣告收入但是又受到某種限制就是他跟一般的商業台又不太一樣他不能有政論節目也不能有宗教節目也不能有這個政治的廣告對他具備了公共性質的商業台是是是所以他本身就是一個在界地上有一點模糊的然後我對他的期待就是"},{"start":7651.084,"end":7651.224,"text":"部長講到重點了"},{"start":7669.588,"end":7676.01,"text":"就是說我們如果依這個公股處理條例第11條 主管單位機關本來就得這個編列這個負負擔捐贈給這個所謂的戰股 超過50%的這個公共化的無線電視事業所以嘛 您剛剛有提到負負擔捐贈的問題 那當然過去我們都沒有每年編列負負擔捐贈給"},{"start":7692.495,"end":7692.815,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":7717.089,"end":7717.389,"text":"李遠列席"},{"start":7736.5,"end":7757.333,"text":"提出一個很好的解決方式在院會上爭取行政院的支持另外想跟你討論就是說賴清德總統就職演說中他有提到兩個很大的跟文化部相關的工作面向第一個我想你應該也聽得很清楚"},{"start":7757.793,"end":7757.953,"text":"關於轉型正義的規劃"},{"start":7776.875,"end":7799.521,"text":"知事未提我們文化部狹下最大的這個威權的違章建築就是中正紀念壇該如何轉型的問題那請問部長關於中正紀念壇的轉型文化部到底做還是不做那剛剛柯思恩召委也有提到這個問題可是他當然也沒有問得很詳細那我想再跟你進一步討論說當然這個問題是複雜的"},{"start":7802.922,"end":7819.327,"text":"當然我也不是只有現在才問您在李永德部長的時代在史澤的部長時代我每一個部長都問過當然我是非常關心這個事情李永德部長其實當初他的回答是讓我覺得"},{"start":7821.047,"end":7843.618,"text":"和我新友七七煙他認為中正紀念堂百分之百是威權他的一磚一瓦都是在紀念蔣介石所以如果面對這樣子的概念的話那他的轉型正義當然轉型正義不是一觸可擊所以我們要怎麼樣逐步來轉型正義那當然由國家帶頭崇拜這個獨裁者"},{"start":7846.999,"end":7865.593,"text":"確實是荒謬的那也不尊重我們擁有不同歷史記憶的國人特別是一些政治受難者的家屬那所以我想怎麼樣來轉型那我具體建議就是說我們是不是在這個所謂的三軍一隊在堂體的三軍一隊"},{"start":7868.775,"end":7884.165,"text":"是不是可以來先移到所謂的升降騎台那裡因為我們知道現在中正堂就如同您剛講的現在很多的觀光啊那休閒啊這是一個提供很好的場域那很多觀光客其實也常來到中正堂那其實三軍儀隊這些展演也是很多觀光客愛看的"},{"start":7889.949,"end":7894.972,"text":"可是我們的象徵意義很清楚就是說他在堂體他就是好像還在這個這個保護或這個擁護這個所謂的威權那他如果來到升降騎台在這個廣場中那是不是就是"},{"start":7908.298,"end":7929.333,"text":"會轉移這個這個這樣的一個意義的象徵所以我想請教部長您怎麼看這個問題我想國安部其實我們這個事情要跟國安部來溝通他們已經對外表達說他那個儀隊是一種儀式而不是表演所以他他已經表達說要嘛就撤要嘛就不撤他已經不堅持不撤是他把這問題對給我們那這個問題其實我應該這樣講齁"},{"start":7934.554,"end":7951.341,"text":"我覺得中正紀念堂從當時蓋了中正紀念堂之後陳水扁總統上任之後就好像把它降級了然後就把那個一對撤掉然後把大中資政改成自由廣場可是8年後"},{"start":7953.086,"end":7953.426,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7969.292,"end":7992.807,"text":"﹗"},{"start":7993.615,"end":8019.684,"text":"已經對外徵求了所有人去想像中中正經驗堂應該變成什麼樣子那那個展覽我看了很多遍因為我家就住在隔壁我連中正經驗堂原來沒有鴿子到後來有九隻鴿子到現在鴿子各生我都陪伴小孩長大甚至我還寫過童話就是中正經驗堂的鴿子我覺得它的演變是很自然的演變就像鴿子從九隻變一大堆一樣本來有一條山樹林"},{"start":8030.147,"end":8048.937,"text":"每天早上九點半都會有一個人站在那邊開始講白色恐怖是怎麼發生的九點半講到十點半然後他講完之後離開你會很好奇他在白色恐怖裡面扮演什麼角色他其實認為自己是一個被害者那事實上從別人眼光看他是一個加害者"},{"start":8050.134,"end":8073.122,"text":"一切的一切在我們生活中都發生還是恐怖這件事情那可是我覺得台灣現在需要的是一種在一個有共識下往下做當然因為我覺得以目前這個政治生態我不想用很強迫的方式用我覺得對的方式往下做我有我個人的想法是我的家族裡面有"},{"start":8074.093,"end":8079.277,"text":"我舅舅有四個裡面有三個是白色恐怖但是我不會用我個人的理由去面對這個事情"},{"start":8081.632,"end":8081.953,"text":"轉型正義的意義也是這樣"},{"start":8105.953,"end":8123.259,"text":"因為賴清德總統的就職他對轉型正義的工作要持續做那轉型正義的工作當然弄到每個部會去那在文化部當然最重要中文進展當然是一個很重要的事情那所以我還是認為就是說三軍一隊就算"},{"start":8124.179,"end":8124.339,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":8146.138,"end":8158.175,"text":"所以我想這個是一個轉型正義很重要意義的表徵所以這個請部長再思考看看那好那我想再借一點點時間就是說我想跟談到剛剛提到就是所謂的這個語言的問題因為"},{"start":8162,"end":8184.257,"text":"藍信德總統也有揭示就是說我們文化的永續那語言的保存是非常重要那當然剛剛也有委員提到現在因為語言我們有客委會我們有原民會所以包括這個客語原民會我們都有專責中央部會也有對應的專法那台語它散落在包括各個部會包括教育部跟文化部"},{"start":8184.557,"end":8210.276,"text":"可是文化部又是所謂國家語言發展法組織的單位所以在台語的推廣上面我覺得這個部分這個文化部責無旁貸那不曉得部長你有什麼樣的想法在台語的部分我想很多人都期待文化部扮演一個比較推廣台語的那個角色我想這一點是無庸置疑的而且我來我來上任前已經很多單位來找我也強調台語的傳承的重要我個人在成長經驗中"},{"start":8214.941,"end":8237.969,"text":"是全班唯一不會講台語的外省第二代可是我們老師是用台語上課所以我後來有能力做一個像風飛飛台語歌謠的一個策劃者從不懂台語到熱愛台語到有能力做出台語歌謠所以我對台語的那個情感是很深的所以這點我想不用擔心我會開始往下做那至於在什麼時候完成這個"},{"start":8240.31,"end":8242.071,"text":"謝謝李建招委部長請回座"},{"start":8267.708,"end":8271.372,"text":"好謝謝那再來我們請張雅玲委員謝謝主席那我們有請部長好有請李部長"},{"start":8287.847,"end":8312.509,"text":"部長好 非常歡迎你來到文化部 因為你自己本身就是一個應該非常了解文化的一個文化人 那我想我就接續著剛剛議級委員的幾個議題 我先快速的先講到轉型正義的這一件事情 因為我過去在民間也是有在寫這些有關於白色恐怖的這些走讀的腳本給孩子 那中正紀念堂其實也是我一個腳本的主題"},{"start":8313.61,"end":8330.22,"text":"那這裡面呢我想跟部長討論因為部長剛剛講了一個非常重要的重點就是大家如何凝聚共識我想轉型正義喔再走到現在這個階段我們應該要走向第二個部分就是處理威權移序的部分威權移序裡面可能有幾種不同的處理方法"},{"start":8331.772,"end":8350.762,"text":"可能是像移籍委員剛剛說的部分但是也有另外一種方法我們是不是可以做更多的人權教育我們必須要有一些更批判性的思考去面對當現在的政治的政治或社會的各種局面或是我們收到的假訊息所以這個批判性思考對於不管是聯合國統計經會都非常從2016年都開始推動的"},{"start":8353.843,"end":8371.729,"text":"但是我發現一件事情就是我們國家人權博物館的預算以前其實是會有兩次的教育推廣但是我們現在我從11年看起來有1290萬112年我查不到第二期的資料如果第二期是沒有那就946萬113年我現在只有看到規劃一期"},{"start":8374.957,"end":8375.017,"text":"我跟"},{"start":8402.364,"end":8428.569,"text":"我跟委員說個報告,原則上已經往我們是一年是兩次那後來有團體就是反映說我們大概第二期時間的執行時間就太短了所以我們就把整個整變成做為一年就是一期那經費上的原則上大概是八九百那一一三年度事實上也確實申請了蠻多所以我們把經費也調贏了一些經費過來所以一一三年度可以看得出來我們核定的是一千一百多萬"},{"start":8429.372,"end":8448.205,"text":"對可是它跟111年比起來是變少了耶如果是一期來說我也認同因為的確我過去也是申請這個補助案的人所以我了解的確在第二期執行上面真的是非常的緊湊所以你們要這樣做我完全沒有任何意見但是金額上面真的就是變少了我們人力管的經費預算確實是比較緊"},{"start":8450.407,"end":8469.905,"text":"那這個部分的話是預算不夠嗎是需要部長再來協助嗎還是怎麼樣因為剛剛我們要講嘛威權移序要處理這件事情社會共識很重要如果我們沒有足夠的資源去滾動去做這些人權教育要如何走進到下一個階段轉型正義要如何繼續下去這一部分是需要部長的支持嗎"},{"start":8470.686,"end":8498.658,"text":"我跟委員報告我們現在目前也有在徵請那個促轉基金來協助這樣一部分的一個工作好那我們這部分我們會再來努力來徵請基金那這個部分我希望可以積極的去申請這個促轉基金我也希望這個運用上面可以帶給大家更多的想像好謝謝請回那再來就是說我想我也想要繼續的來請教這個部長非常了解有多少鴿子的部長就是說中正建堂裡面有一個汐水以前有一個噴水的地方"},{"start":8499.378,"end":8527.22,"text":"那每到夏天以前都一直噴水嘛那以前因為台北真的非常非常的炎熱到夏天很多小孩就會去那邊洗水那這已經因為疫情前幾年因為疫情的關係它關閉了那現在呢似乎也沒有開起來要讓孩子洗水我想要請部長來研究我們這個部分是不是可以提供孩子一個洗水的空間呢把噴水池重新變成讓孩子在夏天尤其是在這個氣候變遷的狀況之下可以讓他去那邊洗水這件事情是不是可行呢"},{"start":8528.191,"end":8529.091,"text":"那可不可以負責的"},{"start":8544.237,"end":8544.297,"text":"臺語政策"},{"start":8563.018,"end":8591.676,"text":"因為就是像如同剛剛部長也非常清楚就是作為一個主責單位因為我自己是一個講台語的家庭所以我自己非常在乎這件事情那我想跟部長先討論一件事情我們一年的國家整體語言的發展方案的預算有64億其中台語總預算只佔了15億大概23.43%這個預算到底夠不夠這個部分我覺得我們可以再來討論但是我想先討論一件事情"},{"start":8592.697,"end":8602.013,"text":"金額我們放在影視跟表演藝術上面達到了10億多那其實等於是在將近九成的預算八九成的預算在這個領域上面"},{"start":8603.533,"end":8632.292,"text":"我們現在其實要講台語的文化有一個很重要的東西是我們其實有最近這個公視啊我們也做很多很棒很優質的一些台語或是客語的節目那我們到底在可是我看文創發展只有兩千多萬我不曉得說我們這兩個部分是有做一個整體性的思考嗎當我們文策院或是我在民間有一些很好的漫畫故事我是不是把它串聯起來讓它變成影視發展的一個整合性計畫呢"},{"start":8633.613,"end":8642.57,"text":"我們有做這件事情嗎?我們現在有做這件事情嗎?我先回答剛才為什麼會比較偏向影視因為當初成立了公共電視台與台因為那個"},{"start":8644.616,"end":8664.442,"text":"委員應該稍微了解一個電視台要成立跟拍片他的預算是非常高的未來我想我們會調整到其他的方式來推動台語比如台語家庭還有台語的其他表演應該說部長其實我並沒有反對我們要投資這麼高因為我像上之前我跟史哲部長諮詢的時候我也非常認同因為這個是一個空站的部分對對"},{"start":8665.402,"end":8693.471,"text":"這個空站的資源一定要灑下去一定要去海灑只是說我現在是希望說這個資源是不是可以跟我的文創發展整個掛鉤做一個整體性的計畫讓一些好的文本像我們現在很多的韓劇都是其實都是從漫畫線上的漫畫開始去發展把它變成是動漫然後變成是那個影視訊接本然後後來發展更多的IP周邊所以這是我希望文化部去做的事情把每一個投資的資源從一個點變成整個面去灑這樣才能夠去讓更多人聽到台語聽到客語聽到這些語言"},{"start":8695.171,"end":8719.714,"text":"喜歡這件事情喜歡這文化去學習它這部分我希望部長可以給我們一個計畫好不好就是說我們怎麼去做這整個串聯那這個計畫是不是可以在多久的時候可以提供給我們多久我想請教一下兩個月可以嗎好不好兩個月可以嗎如果我們開始做這個方向去研究謝謝部長那再來就是說齁"},{"start":8721.243,"end":8749.161,"text":"之前我也有講就是說我們今天剛剛已經是海灑了嘛對不對下面的要怎麼去承接親子其實是一個很重要的平台那我們其實現在有母語學習家庭跟母語傳承家庭那我想要知道說我們對於母語傳承家庭之前我也其實也有質詢部長說我們對於傳承家庭是不是有更高的一些任務給他除了只是給他獎金讓他自己可是他只有在家裡講他能不能走到社區去講我不想要現在文化部有沒有進一步的規劃在這個部分"},{"start":8751.342,"end":8779.71,"text":"這個部分是不是請社長跟委員報告一下這個傳承家庭的部分我們現在就是希望說他除了家裡講台語之外如果他願意成為所謂的共學家庭因為我們會賦予他們責任他們可以來跟文化部申請說還要在他的社區裡面推動10個或是15個家庭他們要一起來共學的話那這個部分我們會給他經費的支柱還有包括場地的租借或者是他們這些"},{"start":8781.452,"end":8786.437,"text":"我們下禮拜還會再進行一次的諮詢會議把我們整個台語家庭的推動計畫跟我們台語界的夥伴們一起討論好了以後希望在8月份能夠正式公告9月份上路"},{"start":8806.934,"end":8834.797,"text":"好 謝謝那延續這一題還有就是說我們之前呢其實是有講說我們需要有更頻繁的去使用這一些我們台語的這個東西嘛那之前我們其實有講到就是說其實他們可能是說故事的爸媽或是推廣活動或是一些友善魂境可是因為之前也有台語的家庭來反映說他們可能這是像台語生活節或是這是一個台語的會盆活動可是他進去的時候他聽不到可是只有50%不到的人"},{"start":8837.759,"end":8862.011,"text":"議員的使用是台語變成是說已經在講台語的他想要更進化更進化更提升自己的一個語言能力他想創造這個環境給小孩他沒有這個空間所以之前是有跟文化部討論是說我們的活動是要做一些標示這可能是資深級優級的語言能力的專家級語言能力的初級語言能力的這種標示讓"},{"start":8863.112,"end":8868.71,"text":"民眾可以去選擇而不是說全部都是變成初級的版本這個部分我不曉得文化部研究的成果是什麼"},{"start":8869.847,"end":8894.301,"text":"目前我們今年度的各個補助項目像說故事爸媽或者是那些推廣活動或者是接受我們補助的台語主流化的表演節目我們都有要求他們要標示這是一個純台語的演出或者是如果是台華混合或台客混合的時候在比例上面也能夠做出一個適當的說明那這樣的話讓我們參與的朋友們可以做一個正確的選擇"},{"start":8895.202,"end":8919.621,"text":"所以在這個部分的話是什麼時候已經開始會開始執行呢?對今年度就會開始執行今年度就會開始執行也是8月的時候嗎一起購嗎OK好那最後還是要再請部長一下就是說因為部長畢竟我覺得之前擔任過華視的總經理那過去又在這個領域上面有非常多跨媒體的跨領域不管是文學作品影視作品歌謠等等的一些整合我非常希望"},{"start":8920.322,"end":8920.342,"text":"謝謝部長"},{"start":8951.813,"end":8953.235,"text":"陳佩玉委員陳佩玉委員"},{"start":8977.574,"end":8999.472,"text":"部長早安先謝謝我從小的時候讀的書的偶像小野部長願意接下這個非常辛苦的工作那在這之前呢我想要先送部長一本書他已經絕版了所以部長你一定要好好保存這本書的書名就叫做如果我是文化部長但是因為你現在已經是文化部長了所以你可以把如果"},{"start":9001.065,"end":9028.006,"text":"這兩個字蓋掉你就是文化部長了但是你知道這本書多棒嗎他是一本法國出版後來翻譯成台灣中文的童書那你現在也是爺爺了我相信你一定有在跟你的孫子共讀那這本書那這本書呢我想要分享其中幾頁讓部長知道您的責任有多麼重大甚至您在我心目中所有部會重要的排名絕對在前三名就是這本書所要說的來下一頁"},{"start":9029.855,"end":9047.463,"text":"好下一頁好下一頁這本書裡面呢有一段話他是這麼說的就是我頭影片上所顯示的如果我是文化部長我會盡力向我的同僚說明支持藝術和文化有多麼的重要他們也一定會用心的聽我說"},{"start":9048.704,"end":9059.113,"text":"但是如果在表決預算的時候他們就會開始宣稱有其他更重要更緊急的項目得優先處理例如醫療工程經濟跟國防部長這是您未來的處境他其中裡面就談到了我們要認識建築我們要認識戲劇我們要認識各式各樣的文化藝術其中有一個來自於部長您跟我都非常擅長的專業叫做出版業"},{"start":9075.586,"end":9093.719,"text":"他說像是長篇小說啦短篇小說集、詩集、論文集跟漫畫全部都會變成禁書那我只擷取了其中的一頁也就是說當大家都不再認同文化工作的重要性所有東西就會從這個世界上消失所以部長我想要從這裡這本書等一下我會送給您"},{"start":9096.241,"end":9117.191,"text":"雖然他已經絕版了齁但是我想跟部長談一談不管是所有剛剛委員問的很多很細緻的工作或者是很多輿論的發酵我相信部長這都是會是您接下來非常困難而且重要的挑戰所以我要再一次以讀者的身份先謝謝部長願意承擔的這一份非常艱困的工作來下一頁"},{"start":9118.351,"end":9143.061,"text":"這是文化部的組織圖我想部長你應該已經了然於心下一頁在過去一年當中我們辦公室雖然只有地補了一年的時間但是我們花了很多力氣在跟文化部的非常多政策跟相關的預算對話其中還包含這個我覺得是最困難的它應該是所謂的深水區水很深或是在很深的地方大家不敢"},{"start":9143.601,"end":9143.741,"text":"下一頁"},{"start":9162.384,"end":9182.753,"text":"我們也談了臺灣臺語團體剛剛有兩位委員都都都談了我們就不再多說但是臺語相關的政策跟資源在文化部是大家很多很多很多的期待不管是活動不管是演講不管是相關預算或者是跟教育部的跨部會合作都需要部長您再多多費心下演"},{"start":9183.573,"end":9203.653,"text":"還有文創發展司裏面在談的文創園區的定位部長我覺得之後你也會遇到很大的困境是來自這五大文創園區他各自的商業發展機制他各自跟民間機制的合作或者是他的定位或者是他怎麼落地跟各地方縣市政府合作甚至他可以鼓勵年輕人進駐"},{"start":9204.774,"end":9204.935,"text":"接下來下一頁"},{"start":9216.411,"end":9242.617,"text":"還有關於表演藝術的部分這是在議法司台灣有東尼獎了在2019年的時候就有多位民間表演藝術聯盟團體呼籲文化部應該成立自己的台灣東尼獎可是很可惜的是下一頁很可惜的是在2024年台灣確實有台灣東尼獎但是是落在台北市文化部的高度目前我們還沒有看到我們知道文化部當年有召開相關會議但是沒有後續消息"},{"start":9246.078,"end":9266.397,"text":"下一頁談到台灣部長您在上任的時候第一份新聞稿說的你要推動兒少文化幣這件事情也就是說我可以看得出來部長對兒少是相當重視的而在時部長任內也成立了相關的兒童台好單台頻道那可是關於兒童自治節目這件事情部長"},{"start":9267.037,"end":9285.17,"text":"未來也絕對會是千頭萬緒部長您的幕僚都可以請回因為他們今天都不用幫你回答問題我沒有要逐一跟部長討論這麼多細緻的問題我只是要讓部長知道你有千頭萬緒你有非常非常多事情需要解決而這些都只是我們辦公室在去年所追蹤的題目而已來下一頁"},{"start":9286.551,"end":9297.701,"text":"還有關於臺灣的小孩可不可以唱臺灣自己的兒歌甚至在所謂的非商業營業空間像是學校或者是社團活動如果要播放臺灣自己的歌很多爸媽甚至被學校收到通知請不要把孩子們用臺灣的歌或是臺灣的兒歌唱跳的影片上傳到YouTube因為可能會被相關的版權團體做出控告這是可能"},{"start":9313.135,"end":9338.443,"text":"但是會不會就因為這樣如同部長剛剛您被其他委員質詢到關於短影音的問題關於文化統戰的問題部長這也是千頭萬緒接下來我們發現文化部甚至在文化平權會報裡面沒有青年跟兒少諮詢代表這件事情部長可能您的同您的幕僚不會在第一時間跟您說因為我們發現文化部在這件事情上的概念非常非常的"},{"start":9339.743,"end":9358.689,"text":"我不要說落後,非常非常的不與時俱進對於青少的這個部分文化部的積極度確實很不足我們也希望文化部之後在相關的諮詢委員會裡面必須要兒少代表我相信這件事情是很多委員都會一起關心跟重視的沒有相關文化平權跟兒少的諮詢"},{"start":9360.009,"end":9362.67,"text":"我相信部長你一定知道進入國中之後所有的小孩都被綁在學校裡面寫參考書寫考卷這個是不真的事實"},{"start":9385.555,"end":9391.979,"text":"而一旦文化幣到了孩子們的手上他們真的想花會不會也沒地方可以花沒有消費標的可以選擇好我想這個部分也會我們辦公室會繼續跟文化部對話再下一頁"},{"start":9399.875,"end":9426.647,"text":"好,關於AI這件事情台灣國科會甚至想要做自己的版本我相信政府的政策有他的相關考量我不予置評但是我想問光是AI到上一個上個月吧上個禮拜又出現更新版的AI他是從影像甚至他跟你對話他教你解數學題我相信現場的葛博士應該非常清楚而一旦台灣要做自己的AI模型相關的侵權問題將如何解決目前我們在文化部也沒有看到相關進度好,下一頁"},{"start":9429.388,"end":9447.356,"text":"還有文策院所有的活動所有這些還有好多好多的細節需要討論到國際展場上如何更實質的拓展文化外交透過版權交易透過活動透過很多的對話如何讓國外這些出版商願意回頭來看看台灣也有很棒的出版原創作品好下一頁"},{"start":9448.897,"end":9448.937,"text":"下一頁"},{"start":9463.757,"end":9473.725,"text":"所以部長我想問在您的想像底下台灣的文化環境你希望在您的任內打造出什麼樣的樣態你有什麼樣的想像或者是你希望推動什麼樣的政策或者是法案或者是其他更多公共的對話來達成您的想像還有我覺得台灣必須要面對的現實就是在有網路的時代不管全球化的商業經濟發展是往前或是後退"},{"start":9488.678,"end":9518.418,"text":"但是全球化資訊化時代底下部長您剛剛說的要以台灣本土的創作為奧這件事情其實難度相對的非常非常高那部長您如何想像但是在部長我給你30秒想像一下但是在這之前我想要先幫部長回答剛剛有一個委員問的議題也許部長您就可以稍微想像一下為什麼我要這麼說剛剛洪孟凱委員在一剛開始的時候問您說有沒有很多電影他是票房不好但是後續效果延伸"},{"start":9518.578,"end":9518.698,"text":"稍女與戰車動畫電影"},{"start":9539.841,"end":9559.859,"text":"怎麼樣大家覺得很不紅可是他後續IP效應非常非常非常好你看連那個阿宅葛博士都不清楚像這樣的東西台灣有沒有機會做我會說有台灣有非常多的年輕人想要投入動畫製作而動畫製作可能在過去不是部長您所熟悉的那您如何想像"},{"start":9560.439,"end":9579.181,"text":"還有剛剛有一個委員問到關於投資抵檢的部分我也可以幫您一併說順便告訴你現在的困境目前的投資抵檢說要有相關完整的劇本才可以做投資抵檢可是在很多文化創意產業它光是初期的醞釀成本我相信部長你一定非常清楚你自己悶在家裡寫稿的時候沒有人會給你錢"},{"start":9580.302,"end":9589.245,"text":"你們在家裡畫畫創作的時候沒有人會給你錢全部都是出版品完成之後你才會拿到稿費或相關的費用所以初期的醞釀這件事情文化部願不願回頭再去看關於投資底簡的部分我的時間用完了可不可以再給部長30秒簡單回答一下我剛說了這麼多千頭萬緒的問題部長您如何想像在您的任內去促使這些事情"},{"start":9604.266,"end":9619.791,"text":"我覺得我們長後嬰兒潮世代在升學主義的成長中不能上體育課 不能上音樂課 不能上美術課所以基本上台灣的教育是非常失敗的"},{"start":9621.131,"end":9648.879,"text":"與我們這一整代的人對藝術不重視他也會影響到我們對文化的投資跟觀念還有消費因為不重視我們就不會去消費你的童書裡面講說當你要推動文化的時候它是一個看不到的東西最後就會把錢擺在經濟擺在民生擺在一切東西但是這樣的結果就是會創造出一整個時代對文化漠視的時代然後也完全對文化抱著很輕蔑的態度"},{"start":9650.691,"end":9669.292,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":9670.512,"end":9693.21,"text":"滿時髦的或者滿流行的東西我做的第一步就會去找過去所有曾經很同情我們做紙風車集團的企業大老闆希望他們能夠拿錢出來我們不是有一個方案是企業可以投資文化對可是我剛剛說嘛可是回頭你要相關修法要進行就是光是初期這件事情很多大老闆會看不懂"},{"start":9694.151,"end":9709.558,"text":"我有一個故事只能私下跟部長說很多大企業老闆他對於東西的那個現金迴轉率他的想像可能是3個月可是我們的很多文化產品回收不會在3個月我想文策院董事長也非常清楚不會在3個月內就有相關回收好部長您繼續謝謝"},{"start":9711.072,"end":9732.468,"text":"大概就是讓他覺得投資文化不是一個我們從那個抵減稅或者是說ESG這種地方給他得到利益之外他打從心裡覺得這個文化很重要他喜歡音樂他喜歡美術他喜歡電影是打從心裡面有一種感染力可是我剛剛講過我們這一整代的人都沒有文化"},{"start":9733.268,"end":9733.989,"text":"我們這一整袋人類"},{"start":9763.748,"end":9781.774,"text":"所以你講到這種童書要父母親自己非常愛童書他才會去買童書或者他就不會買童書同樣道理我們一整代人對文化有點欺滅的感覺的時候他根本不覺得值得投資嘛所以我覺得我要做的事情就是要讓"},{"start":9783.206,"end":9799.326,"text":"真的擁有資源的人比如企業家他願意把多餘的一些利潤拿出來投資在文化上幫助整個社會他會覺得很值得他打從心裡喜歡這個東西我們要用文化感染他"},{"start":9801.022,"end":9803.504,"text":"這是我真的想到說我可以直接做的部分"},{"start":9830.862,"end":9850.145,"text":"﹗"},{"start":9850.285,"end":9877.481,"text":"如果到最後現場都沒有人了只是要演唱家其他人去哪裡了去滑手機去看Netflix不是去各式各樣的平台然後他故意嘲諷了做一個文化禁止日這一天所有人都不能參與文化活動可是我們以為文化活動是什麼是不要進劇場嗎不要聽歌嗎不要看劇嗎很抱歉各位如果禁止文化日那天真的發生我們連衣服都沒得穿因為連衣服"},{"start":9878.982,"end":9905.056,"text":"都是一個文化臺灣有時裝設施臺北有時裝設計週對嗎所以謝謝部長我們未來一起努力謝謝主席不會把你的書放到我辦公室裡一定要謝謝明天看著謝謝好謝謝謝謝陳培宇委員我剛好沒這一本真的這是我自己買的喔主席我們一起啦這個真的很少這個出版社很少"},{"start":9910.579,"end":9912.66,"text":"接下來請郭育晴委員"},{"start":9940.907,"end":9944.7,"text":"謝謝主席,有請小宇部長,好有請李部長"},{"start":9949.721,"end":9977.776,"text":"恭喜部長也期待因為我知道您是文化人您也曾經是影視產業當中重要的主管同時跟教育有很多的一些關聯同時又是一個藝術家也是一個文化的出版者所以其實在這個部分對您有非常多的一些期待希望將來其實在我們的文化的產業當中能有更多的一些大家想要看到的一些良性的互動跟一些發展"},{"start":9979.295,"end":10001.088,"text":"好那接下來我們看一下一張部長認識在中間那個是我啦好右邊那位您認識他嗎蠻好的朋友是陳沐浴大哥陳沐浴對上個上上個禮拜他還特別就是到我的辦公室來跟我聊天喔那當然我想最近陳沐浴大哥"},{"start":10001.648,"end":10002.128,"text":"這部分其實我不知道部長你怎麼看"},{"start":10024.214,"end":10051.191,"text":"我來回答一下因為我曾經是臺北電影節第一屆跟第二屆的主席換句話說這個電影節是在我手上創立的那針對這個陳沐浴講的話第一他就是一個電影中這個演員演多少長度跟短真的不是主角跟配角的關係沒錯他可以演很短可是他是主角就像他自己很不服氣說這個電影就叫老狐狸嘛那這個電影我看過演得真好這樣那所以第一"},{"start":10051.971,"end":10058.234,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":10059.537,"end":10072.564,"text":"那這個部分其實在我們來看一下我們就回歸到在主角或者是配角或者是他們在報名的時候這個對於條件上面的一個篩選的部分然後這個其實審查還是有一點點小小的爭議了那為什麼會特別來問部長因為我們的文化部變成是這個北影的指導單位那相對的來講可能也會是這個主管單位所以這個部分可能要請部長也稍微要"},{"start":10089.033,"end":10089.053,"text":"獲得獎項"},{"start":10106.095,"end":10127.062,"text":"那另外呢在所謂的這個報名的部分我想陳沐逸大哥他們是這部電影當中他們是幫他報名了男主角的一個獎項但最後呢卻因為所謂的戲份不足那因為我過去也是在戲劇圈我們知道所謂的戲份不足這件事情其實根本沒有辦法去"},{"start":10128.442,"end":10134.545,"text":"在角色上的一個認定因為這個戲分不足到底是他的演出的時間不夠長還是他播出的時間他的片段被剪掉叫戲分不足所以其實這中間有很大的爭議但是以這部戲劇來說其實陳沐益大哥他本身就是靠著他的戲劇的張力那我相信部長你也看過這部電影那陳沐益大哥在裡面其實是非常非常重要的"},{"start":10160.738,"end":10177.102,"text":"第2點報名的部分北影其實他可以要求報名者他可以再補充或者補交更多其他的一些文件來證明其實他就是男主角或者是北影有沒有比較善意的去跟陳沐浴大哥講說我們是不是可以把"},{"start":10177.702,"end":10199.985,"text":"提名角色的部分最佳男主角或者是變成所謂的最佳的男配角的這個部分來做這樣子的一個應該說權衡之有沒有這樣子的一個討論這是對於一個演出工作者的一個最基本的尊重那這個部分我不曉得北映這邊就文化部您的了解北映有做到溝通的一個管道嗎"},{"start":10200.866,"end":10223.774,"text":"跟委員報告一下北影其實是我們文化部跟他合作都是我們有經費跟他合作都在活動上比如說他們要培養新人是那這個辦法過程我們完全沒有碰因為他是台北市政府文化基金會底下的一個單位所以我完全不知道他們這個但因為我們文化部是指導單位啦那我想是不是中間可以之後來做這樣子的一個聯繫跟溝通"},{"start":10226.255,"end":10237.722,"text":"好那接下來我們再來看一下這個可能前面有幾位的這個我們的立委朋友他們也有特別提到了啦就是關於台灣館的這個吉祥物的部分那其實是真的很可愛但是後來也卻因為前後的說法當然也"},{"start":10243.865,"end":10245.946,"text":"確定了這個其實還是會有一些抄襲的一個疑慮那我要講的是另外一件事情就是在於根據這個政府採購的資訊網上面我們其實可以查詢的到那就是這個圖像呢"},{"start":10259.555,"end":10279.036,"text":"他所被提供的這個單位的公司叫做蹦世界數位創意股份有限公司他從民國大概是107年開始他連續了7年取得了台灣管的一個標案那他的這個所有的標案的一個項目名稱是展覽數位內容建制採購案"},{"start":10280.498,"end":10306.801,"text":"那每一年大概是平均大概就是兩百多萬左右啦那整個七年下來喔連續七年得標連續七年大概將近有一千五百多萬那我想在這這中間的整個所有的過程喔到引發這一次的圖像抄襲的一個事件我不曉得這個文化部這個部分身為創作者算是我們的這個主管單位的文化部那這個部分是不是也要"},{"start":10308.022,"end":10320.894,"text":"嚴查或者是他們在得標的這個過程當中我們有沒有做落實查核的這樣子的一個調查這個部分是不是有我們大概前面我已經有要要請相關的人講嗎好ok"},{"start":10323.164,"end":10339.609,"text":"跟委員報告,在我們文學館委託蹦世界的這總共其實是四個標案,然後就是我常常期年是因為我們通常有標案會有後續擴充,所以這一每年其中有三次是屬於後續擴充的部分。"},{"start":10340.089,"end":10343.332,"text":"可是針對這7個標案是不是在整個招標的過程或者是招標的審查的委員有沒有什麼樣的問題我們已經請文學館把這7次招標的相關文件全部都送到文化部會由我們政風處跟我們的秘書處協同來展示"},{"start":10358.968,"end":10375.913,"text":"總體檢 總體檢"},{"start":10376.637,"end":10400.99,"text":"文化部裡面有一個所謂的例行的查核就由政風可是因為文化部門非常多我們不會對一個管某一個案子特別去查核他每一次等於用抽查的方式來進行所以並不是這個案子這7年來我們剛好都沒有抽到這個相關的案子那這一次就要求他們先把資料都送到文化部裡面來由政風跟秘書處來查核這整個招標的過程或者是訂閱的過程"},{"start":10404.031,"end":10404.471,"text":"李遠列席報告業務概況．"},{"start":10428.303,"end":10428.703,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":10444.733,"end":10465.434,"text":"另外我想請教一下就是我們每一年其實都會有所謂的從2015年通過這個法案之後其實我們都會規劃這個水下文化資產的一個展覽我不知道今年有沒有什麼樣的一個規劃跟進度這水下文化資產這個是一個蠻新的東西我是不是可以請文資局的局長回答"},{"start":10468.289,"end":10486.562,"text":"報告委員,我們每一年針對文化資產的立法到現在,我們大概每年都做了這三大工作項目,就對於水上文化資產的生化研究。像現在目前經過了文獻的調查還有其他的口訪,發現了水上文化資產大家比較有興趣就是沉船,現在大概有387筆的沉船的資料。"},{"start":10488.723,"end":10509.369,"text":"但是目前只有巴騷對不對?巴騷裡面是所謂的分級有的是所謂的列冊已經判定它有文化歷史的價值的另外我們在這387層船我們會進行深化的研究另外有一些層船的出水的文物我們就一直在整理還有修復保存"},{"start":10511.289,"end":10535.045,"text":"另外還有一個就是這些水下文化資產專業人才的培訓再來就是推動教育等等這些所以您提到這個專業的文化也就是考古隊啦對水下的考古隊啦但是這個因為我們台灣的地形比較特殊我們附近的海洋的一個洋流包含氣候或東北季風甚至可能有因為地震的關係那我們都知道其實每一個考古的這個潛水隊員"},{"start":10536.886,"end":10554.65,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":10554.73,"end":10570.741,"text":"人力部門現在我們一個我們是跟一些學術研究單位來做一些合作是我們用隨案養成的方式因為我們現在國內的這些學校裡面對於水下考古這個科系其實是少之又少現在我們大概就只有跟清華大學"},{"start":10571.762,"end":10586.603,"text":"中央研究院等這個單位大家來合作用隨案養成的方式來培育人才有沒有什麼樣一個比較近期的一個計畫或者是這個部分我們可能還要再更進一步的演繹我是不是可以事後提供書面詳細的書面資料給您好好謝謝"},{"start":10587.805,"end":10609.443,"text":"好,也謝謝部長,我們希望這個文化部,其實我們想要討論的問題很多,那尤其是針對我們的兒少,我們也知道其實在台灣我們的兒童的應該是說關於兒童的這個節目的部分,自製的節目其實比例是非常之低的啦,那這部分其實我們真的也要靠我們的部長好好的,我們大家一起來努力,好嗎?好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝主席"},{"start":10612.947,"end":10618.507,"text":"好謝謝謝謝郭育晴委員部長請回我們接下來休息5分鐘"},{"start":10984.059,"end":11012.195,"text":"我們繼續開會我們接下來請吳春成委員好有請部長好有請李部長部長部長好恭喜你也為文化部恭喜因為那個小野是一個真正的文化人"},{"start":11014.038,"end":11037.78,"text":"重點不在於歷練有再多因為文化是一種靈魂一個民主的靈魂國家一個時代的靈魂那我覺得我們這幾年有點偏差了偏差了這一點只有技術沒有靈魂那我希望一個真正的文化人真正的一個懂得文化的人來接任部長"},{"start":11038.735,"end":11065.555,"text":"那部長我講的話你剛才一開場第一個質詢的時候看你有點緊張不過這一樣我第一天當立委很緊張但是我看你這樣子一路下來你的神情就越來越穩定所以呢然後呢所以我覺得你你非常有把握對要走的路我對那我自己本身也是拿了"},{"start":11069.057,"end":11085.003,"text":"4A廣告節的終身成就獎所以我想我應該也算是一個文化人所以希望未來能夠跟這個部長有更深入的對話而不只是浮光掠影談表面的東西這個"},{"start":11090.1,"end":11117.236,"text":"因為部長知道我在談壯世代那為什麼談壯世代因為我研究趨勢的我想往前30年台灣最重要一件事情就叫民主化民主化走了30年現在還在炒民主化那我覺得有點落伍了啦現在往後看30年部長覺得最重要的事情是什麼還是民主化嗎"},{"start":11119.195,"end":11122.761,"text":"因為這很重要喔 你要知道我們國家往哪裡走"},{"start":11124.367,"end":11125.007,"text":"臺灣未來三十年"},{"start":11155.154,"end":11167.942,"text":"剛才這一頁往前這一個新聞是民國44年有兩個女生在西門町逛街就被請到警察局那犯了什麼罪"},{"start":11169.298,"end":11170.338,"text":"文化部等同文化部"},{"start":11193.38,"end":11212.507,"text":"當然當然當然不是不是一個機構不是一個機構但是是不是文化是不是是文化部的責任是是文化部的責任沒有問題所以是廣泛的這樣子的一個文化應該是要作為文化部致力的目標而不是太衙門化"},{"start":11215.828,"end":11217.83,"text":"我發現這一個1970年代的時候1970年的時候台灣的運營中位數是19.3歲2040年是52.4歲落差非常大"},{"start":11243.268,"end":11244.269,"text":"1970年65歲上占人口2.9%2040年是30.1%那年齡的14歲以下1970年是39.72040年是10.2"},{"start":11257.629,"end":11283.825,"text":"部長看了這是國發會的資料 這不是我編的所以呢各位就是翻天覆地的改變那我這個大概立法院來破百例啦我發現我們政府所有的部會都停留在1970年代的思維在制定政策那我要看看文化部是不是也這樣子所有的部會部都在歧視高齡者"},{"start":11285.191,"end":11310.562,"text":"我們幾乎90%的預算都在衛福部其他的部會只要超過60歲叫做清廷點水而且那一部分小小的部分也是配合衛福部所以我剛才講為什麼60加以後何去何從基本上是被我們政府放棄的一群人我不曉得有沒有被文化部放棄所有的部會這個我在今天沒有時間談每一個部會我都溝通過了"},{"start":11311.962,"end":11317.387,"text":"我們來等一下今天的重點基本上60歲以上現在台灣超過60歲有600萬人這600萬人我們的政府大概都是為60歲以前的社會來打拼一旦過60歲以後"},{"start":11330.117,"end":11356.102,"text":"我要等一下問一下文化部委員會做了什麼事基本上就是一片荒漠沒有橋沒有路沒有水沒有電自己走過去自生自滅自求多福等到你倒下來以後給你長照這個基本上是我們現在的現況描述但現在有600萬人而且未來這些人會超過人口的一半到2050年這邊會佔人口的一半"},{"start":11359.956,"end":11381.99,"text":"已經在眼前的我們的政府都完全視而不見為什麼會視而不見呢我問了每一個部會他說也不是我故意的比如說勞動部定是中高齡說那中高齡幾歲他說45歲我說45歲會不會太寒啊出國念書回來都40歲工作幾年就準備輔導待退啊"},{"start":11384.577,"end":11407.969,"text":"但是這個不是我規定的阿他上面規定的後來我問到了陳建仁院長他說也不是他規定的後來大家歸注的原因就是文化這就是我們的文化那文化部又說這不是我們的事那這是誰的事神仙的事喔我們看文化部文化部做什麼去年的預算高齡預算"},{"start":11410.629,"end":11422.461,"text":"只有3500萬僅佔文化部預算的0.2%但是你也不用 這個不是你的責任因為你剛來以前你看對高齡者有多麼的"},{"start":11423.53,"end":11423.67,"text":"接下來﹗"},{"start":11440.715,"end":11459.862,"text":"大概你到書局看的只要高零的都是這些書籍啦但是你看到好萊塢都已經發現現在的電影的主流都交給壯世代看的所以呢你看最近這幾年都很多的懷舊跟父母妹創造了阿湯哥衝映來的最高的票房"},{"start":11464.623,"end":11492.296,"text":"這裡有大商機啦!我們在座文春月蔡董事長有看到嘛!對不對?要往這裡啦!不是全部都年輕人!這邊倒了年輕人也沒有未來了啦!好接下來所以呢這一個高齡美學我們有一個叫壯世代有一個叫壯時代壯風格希望文化部能夠創造壯時代壯風格高齡美學因為明年就進入超高齡社會了"},{"start":11493.836,"end":11511.262,"text":"文化部重中之重,我們要把銀髮族翻船成為壯世代那這個有很多完全不一樣對銀髮族來講他就是養生養病養老但是對我們來講他有美好的第三人生會帶來對整個社會非常全面性的影響"},{"start":11512.822,"end":11535.319,"text":"我們用大數據可以看到如果你輸入的是銀髮高齡大概長出來的那個大數據銀土大概就是這些數據如果你輸入的壯世代是這樣子完全不同但是同一批人你有沒有去挖掘這些人事實上就叫做戰後嬰兒草戰後嬰兒草全部進入60歲了這一批人所構成包括部長你也是戰後嬰兒草"},{"start":11536.62,"end":11539.382,"text":"為什麼大家都沒有在做,連我來自廣告界,廣告界不會做60歲以上的廣告"},{"start":11560.731,"end":11580.165,"text":"只會那種啊,夠白酒啦,夠滾滾啦,然後大概就這些廣告而已其他全部不會做,為什麼?因為沒有這一些數據我們基本上把60歲以後當作準備把它放在儲藏室準備報銷的一群人這一群人未來會佔人口一半"},{"start":11581.328,"end":11581.348,"text":"韓國電影"},{"start":11594.312,"end":11594.432,"text":"接下來"},{"start":11618.345,"end":11646.561,"text":"我也跟部長告了我在立法院成立了壯士在政策及產業發展促進會63個立委跨黨派的立委加入兩百個位學者已經成為現在立法院最大的次團這個是不分黨派大家共同支持的所以希望文化部在這裡扮演的重中之重的角色那所以對因為你是真正懂的這一個懂的這一個而不是我們在這個雕塚小技武文弄墨"},{"start":11647.341,"end":11658.91,"text":"的這個另外最後一個我要提醒一下最近發生的事情因為部長再來我先跟你告一個狀最近那個文創館我去質詢他因為今年龍年龍年台灣的這一個"},{"start":11662.998,"end":11665.28,"text":"臺灣館還出來捍衛指我們是大陸抄襲臺灣的後來我發文指詢之後當天他就道歉"},{"start":11689.757,"end":11708.943,"text":"當天才要向廠商道歉所以呢你看就是必須要立委這樣子去去後面的跟著的所以呢我也在這裡跟部長你告個狀我不曉得文化部底下有多少這種事情有多少這種事情你剛來的時候你應該要清查一下因為如果文化人心速不振"},{"start":11710.529,"end":11710.769,"text":"希望這個部長加油"},{"start":11740.053,"end":11748.456,"text":"謝謝你的指教好 謝謝謝謝吳春成委員我們接下來請范雲委員謝謝林益景召委有請部長好有請李部長"},{"start":11762.335,"end":11769.257,"text":"委員好部長辛苦了歡迎你來我們立法院那因為今天是第一次質詢那也是要跟您講我想您可能有知道了我也是您的就是創作的一個讀者到一個就是觀影者包含永之聲事館之珠還有小畢的故事等就是您投入的不管是文學創作或者是後來的影像"},{"start":11787.142,"end":11799.85,"text":"我想我們都受惠良多那新電影我們也是跟著一起成長的那所以很高興您擔任這樣的位置那因為剛剛已經很多人問了很多問題我今天其實是三題我覺得對您來講應該不會很難那第一個我想問的是跟步道的相關的事情"},{"start":11807.955,"end":11833.957,"text":"因為那天很高興看到您參加清理步道的步道師頒獎協會我想您很關心想在這邊跟您直接問一些他們的重要訴求第二個想問跟兩廳院票務的一些相關的改革最後想從文化政策看您知識怎麼看待文化政策裡面的性別主流化部長您也是清理步道協會的發起人對不對"},{"start":11837.04,"end":11856.052,"text":"是對18年前18年前那也謝謝部長您還沒有擔任部長前就致力於這個我覺得跟我們的自然景觀然後是一個手作步道的技術的一個保存有投入心力那我也看到您跟我都有去參加今年的他們的榮譽步道師的獎項那您應該非常了解他們做了4年"},{"start":11859.494,"end":11881.687,"text":"是民間用自己的力量在保存我們的手作步道自然工法跟古道那貢獻真的很大那我想您現在成為部長那不知道是不是能夠加速一個工作就是我們千里步道協會要倡議應該要修正文資法的施行細則"},{"start":11882.688,"end":11900.111,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":11900.211,"end":11924.656,"text":"就是傳統知識跟實踐的範圍內我下面框起來在漁獵農林木後面加一個足錄誇號手作步道就可以那如同其他的航海立法及相關祭祀等都可以讓國家一起來參與積極保存手作步道的修復記憶那不要讓千里步道一直用民間的力量在推廣那不知道部長"},{"start":11925.456,"end":11930.283,"text":"是不是可以承諾可以開始競速研議修正這個施行細則呢?"},{"start":11931.925,"end":11957.212,"text":"謝謝委員因為這個跟我個人過去做了18年那個千里步道直接有關係其實千里步道本身就涵蓋了文化還有剛剛提到用手來做我們這次我參加頒獎典禮非常感動就是他頒給三種人第一個是個人一個客家人第二個是一組人在澎湖修那個戶"},{"start":11960.554,"end":11983.874,"text":"第13個是一組原住民把步道當作是個祭典對連儀式都被肯定所以基本上是個有形跟無形的一種文化才那全體步道其實想傳達的不只是健康走路而已他想傳達的是一個用步道來連結台灣歷史跟儀式的記憶所以您的建議我當然是"},{"start":11984.835,"end":11986.336,"text":"請部長進速推動研議修正,好不好?我再回問您,大概多久可以給我們一個書面報告?"},{"start":12008.773,"end":12025.25,"text":"第二題就像我剛說的,不知道部長有沒有注意到去年12月兩廳院有牡丹亭的售票爭議在網路上非常多我們兩廳院的會員還有就是藝文愛好者關心跟批評"},{"start":12026.851,"end":12045.905,"text":"部長您本來知道這件事嗎?我不知道欸不知道沒有關係喔因為牡丹亭是一個非常重要的表演嘛那白先勇先生一直致力於推動那這當然是好事喔可是我們兩廳院的會員在票一開賣的時候發現核心的位置全部都沒有辦法賣"},{"start":12046.785,"end":12069.25,"text":"那就涉及到就是我們兩庭院跟這個包團機制之間的一個衝突那我後來其實有努力幫忙開了因為我覺得這個對我們文化部就是形象也不好而且這是一個公眾的利益那開了一個座談會所以去年2月的時候有開座談會那當時我們次長也有出席"},{"start":12069.83,"end":12093.324,"text":"大家是有充分的討論知道說這裡面有觀眾過票權益還有團體也有一個售票需求跟他的商業利益如何平衡的問題那所以當天是有討論到其實應該要修正一下兩庭院的票務管理規範那文化部回覆說這個部分呢預計在5月的時候必須要在開董事會的時候才能確定那因為5月底"},{"start":12094.745,"end":12114.737,"text":"還沒到嘛所以我就來預告一下那部長是不是可以瞭解相關的進度幫忙追蹤讓兩廳院這麼重要的一個文化部等於是一個指導他的譯文的場館他的售票上的公共性跟公開透明可以獲得更好的提升呢"},{"start":12116.894,"end":12133.286,"text":"我完全贊成因為你剛剛提到牡丹亭我一下子沒有反應過來可是你剛剛講說賣票的時候突然一整區買不到這個我倒是知道對 因為在網路上就是蠻多人我來上院之前還找過那個高知善董事長跟他請教因為我身邊很多朋友都是做戲劇的嘛他們在賣票為什麼會一整區這樣子包場還是為了他的那個票務嘛"},{"start":12143.434,"end":12170.343,"text":"對我知道他有票物的那個財務的考慮這個問題其實蠻嚴重我想我們會馬上找出一個在他們董事會中提出來這個問題立刻解決好那謝謝因為座談會的時候我們也討論過很多細節那希望5月底能夠就是因為也不斷的有網友問我說我說要關心怎麼結果因為結果沒有出來我們也沒有辦法幫你們宣布那希望能夠在5月底的時候順便"},{"start":12170.823,"end":12195.348,"text":"順利解決然後可以公開讓大家知道就文化部跟兩廳院之間當然是以兩廳院為主他們對這個部分的相關的改革那些請部長繼續關心最後一題時間不多比較大一點那我想我講的事情是我看到部長的施政理念的報告那從文化永續世界臺灣的這個願景到分成四個領域生活"},{"start":12195.948,"end":12210.858,"text":"思想創造跟傳播的文化那我就想到就是性別主流化這個事因為其實從世界台灣的角度台灣這幾年被世界看到了有一個很重要的價值不只是民主而是性別平權"},{"start":12212.158,"end":12228.243,"text":"我也很高興看到就是文化部剛講到巴黎奧運的時候你們的台灣館有邀請我們最近非常紅的盧寶羅的美國變裝皇后秀的尼菲亞能夠去那裡表演我覺得文化部這個主動出席非常的好"},{"start":12229.183,"end":12252.788,"text":"讓世界看到因為他不只是在性別文化上代表我們一個引領前進他對台灣的文化的傳統服裝到創新的部分也投入很深在設計上各方面那我也想問部長是說那可是在您的報告中我比較看不到性別那部長會不會有什麼具性別觀點的文化政策呢"},{"start":12254.542,"end":12281.888,"text":"我個人非常贊成臺灣除了自由民主之外是在性別方面走的很前面包括同性婚姻還有剛才講變裝皇后我覺得它都屬於人權的一部分我們就尊重每一個個體未來我想在許多地方上包括我們請評審也好辦什麼活動也好我們會考慮性平這個部分我在報告上沒有寫但是我個人會很重視這個"},{"start":12282.688,"end":12312.688,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":12312.788,"end":12312.808,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":12335.009,"end":12350.691,"text":"﹚"},{"start":12350.771,"end":12374.211,"text":"女性立委比,比如移警委員跟我就是我們是平均高於歐盟的國會所以我們在政治的女性參與是高於歐盟的平均的所以我不知道我們文化這個部分看起來還差異蠻大可是文化從業者女性已經快要50%了所以他們沒有在leadership領導的位置被提拔"},{"start":12374.631,"end":12402.923,"text":"所以這部分也請部長關鍵您的性別主流化的方案是不是也可以設定一個目標看您我們沒有要說馬上達到能夠逐步達到當成是您的施政理念裡面的一個性別主流化好不好性別主流化就是說您的生活傳播各領域裡面都要能看到性別那就像你們這次漂亮初級邀請林菲亞到巴黎奧運的文化館表演好不好"},{"start":12403.203,"end":12413.532,"text":"好沒問題那也請剛剛這三題部長是不是可以在多久內給我們辦公室一個報告呢書面報告看您的時間好了因為這個不同部門吧對一個月是不是一個月可以好一個月那請部長關切了謝部長加油一起加油謝謝好謝謝范雲委員我們接下來部長請回我們接下來請葉元池委員"},{"start":12437.276,"end":12464.611,"text":"麻煩請文化部長謝謝好有請李部長部長好吼委員你好我還是想關心一下那個台灣管理室啦我知道當很多人關心因為我覺得非常不尋常是這一家公司叫碰世界嘛如果他會做出這種抄襲的行為啊代表說他不是一個非常好的公司所以政府不應該很時常很平凡的跟這家公司來往"},{"start":12465.231,"end":12480.001,"text":"但是我們看到這家Bone世界公司從2017一七年開始到二零二四年七八年間光是中央機關總預算他就做了大概七千一百八十五萬的表案這表案的金額是非常龐大"},{"start":12480.962,"end":12505.401,"text":"那跟我們教育文化相關的標案他大概做了2253萬那我知道部長因為你也是新任啊可能你對這過程也不是太了解但這個事情會鬧得非常大你們去了解一下這個廠商他是為什麼可以這麼頻繁的接到我們政府的標案就是說會抄襲而且會抄襲被抓到還不承認還說謊這麼惡劣的廠商我們政府為什麼一直把標案給他做啊部長"},{"start":12510.359,"end":12537.395,"text":"這件事情我覺得抄襲很不對但是硬拗更不對然後我希望這件事情給我們很大的警惕我們整個文化部會針對這件事情徹底檢討我覺得事情已經發生了那我希望這件事情給我們帶來重新檢討我們的標案方式還有重新加強我們的SOP機制未來希望不要再發生這樣沒有回答我的問題啦我是問說為什麼你都認為那麼爛的廠商"},{"start":12539.036,"end":12545.884,"text":"那我們希望你也星光上任三把火嘛那你有沒有去了解一下這麼爛的廠商為什麼他可以做到政府這麼多的表案"},{"start":12547.728,"end":12569.105,"text":"我想因為你剛剛提到說這麼爛的廠商這些字眼我也不知道那沒關係就是有做出這樣行為的廠商如果部長認為他很好的話我也尊重你啦你覺得這麼好的廠商是不是很有抄襲跟硬拗說謊的問題那你覺得為什麼過去我們的文化單位或其他單位那麼喜歡跟他合作"},{"start":12569.825,"end":12594.757,"text":"這點我真的不知道,要是我自己我不會這樣說我建議您是剛上任可能牽頭換序很多但因為這個事情是國人關注的不然不會很多人問你是不是可以去查一下我們已經在查而且會很快這個幾件事情第一個事情要問一下臺文館為什麼在第一時間這個事情發生的時候他是完全採信廠商的說法還在幫廠商說話是為什麼這過程當中是怎麼查的為什麼完全相信廠商"},{"start":12600.984,"end":12610.586,"text":"這點應該誰來回答?可以次長回答嗎?因為我真的不知道該怎麼答這個。那不然你覺得咧?我覺得蠻離譜啊。很離譜嗎?那次長你覺得離譜嗎?你問我個人我就覺得蠻離譜,但是為什麼我不知道。你不知道齁?那次長為什麼?"},{"start":12624.871,"end":12641.577,"text":"這個案子稍微補充說明一下剛剛委員你有提到說為什麼這個廠商可以一而再再而三的拿到文學館的這個數位導覽的案子不只文學館光是中央機關就做了7185萬跟教育文化相關是2253萬台灣館是1259萬"},{"start":12646.035,"end":12671.307,"text":"因為其他機關是如何得標這個部分我不清楚我沒有辦法代為回答那至少在臺文館所委託他的這7年來我們一直委託他做的是所謂的數位導覽的這一塊那數位導覽裡面事實上以前他做的大部分是把我那個這樣因為沒關係那個問題已經過了你只要回答我說你們後來怎麼查的為什麼臺文館第一時間是相信廠商然後幫廠商說謊"},{"start":12674.432,"end":12680.876,"text":"為什麼會相信?你把查的過程先跟我講這個標案裡面最主要他會派駐兩個駐典人員在文學館裡面負責整個臉書頁面的小編還有編輯權那因為在負責這個裡面他同時要做一個所謂遊戲式的導覽你不要講這個大家都知道是我問什麼問題"},{"start":12700.666,"end":12706.89,"text":"這兩個註點人員在文宣團工作因為同仁他就是單純的問註點人員說這個圖案是不是你自己做是不是你自己畫的那這個註點人員告訴我們的同仁說這是他跟他們美合作的所以是原來台灣館在查這個過程是這麼的粗糙"},{"start":12729.645,"end":12746.819,"text":"就是說他自己抄襲不想承認告訴你們台灣館你們台灣館就完全採用他的說法出來幫他硬拗這個很誇張好不好這個第一個非常誇張就是想要息事寧人就是想要大勢化小就是想要掩蓋你們做不好的地方"},{"start":12747.6,"end":12763.42,"text":"第二個我想請教一下有沒有因為這件事情去查一下比如說這個廠商曾經經過的標案或者是說你們文化部狹下其他有關於文創產品可能是廠商自稱原創但是有可能涉及抄襲的有沒有開始著手去查"},{"start":12763.84,"end":12792.859,"text":"有有查了幾間?查了多少?準備要查多少?那我們現在就至少蹦世界所呃成辦的這7年內還有沒有其他他們所提供的圖案這些圖案是不是原創的有沒有什麼那你們怎麼查?會不會又是叫那個小編來問一下說欸是不是是不是不是不是相信你會這樣查嗎?我們就會利用所謂以圖查圖的這個方式先做一個出面的所以你們有查的方法嗎?但是你們沒有用嗎?第一時間就是想要演示嗎?這是我們實質的部分"},{"start":12793.98,"end":12821.261,"text":"請教一下現在被抄的那個匯圖師他已經要跨海提告請問一下到時候如果說有訴訟費用或者是有賠償問題這個錢誰出如果台灣管必須先面對這個中國匯師如果還有任何的提告那如果就產生了一些費用我們匯轉了跟蹦世界這邊來求償是你們要去跟他求償那如果說他要脫產啊他要用什麼方式規避的話那是不是最後全民買單"},{"start":12822.706,"end":12837.058,"text":"因為這個部分我們已經正式跟地檢署那邊提告了,然後所以這部分,廠商如何被限制行為的這個我們就靠司法這邊來...那我問的問題是說,你他現在是跟台灣管球場嘛,對不對?"},{"start":12839.168,"end":12843.773,"text":"對,如果說：如果台灣管被判說有連帶責任或什麼責任要付賠償的話：你現在的做法是要去跟這個廠商求償嘛：如果到時候求償不到的話：這筆錢誰要出：你確定求償到嗎：我現在問的就是如果沒有求償到嘛：錢誰出嘛：確定買單"},{"start":12865.988,"end":12893.026,"text":"這部分就看行政上面那就是全民買單啊那就是全民買單啊好然後再來我提醒你幾件事啦因為我們去看了一下台灣館這個標案真的很奇怪啦我昨天我們助理特別去調他們檢案報告檢案報告裡面有很多我覺得蠻特別的地方那請你去查一下比如說那個他們檢案報告書裡面列了很多實際上和他們並不是太相關的標案都把它當作是服務的時機"},{"start":12894.309,"end":12894.369,"text":"第二﹖"},{"start":12920.561,"end":12945.401,"text":"還有齁我們接下來往下看齁剛剛講到那個美國現代主義文學特展開幕及推廣活動規劃執行這是一個標案72萬得標廠商叫開悟空間文創有限公司那總共兩家去投標另外一家沒有得標叫卡福創意設計行銷有限公司然後很奇怪的地方是在於說我們看到文學館在藝文活動平台所列出來"},{"start":12946.567,"end":12956.736,"text":"他的整個團隊裡面在我們用框框框起來開幕活動的地方他就是由卡福創意設計行銷有限公司來做的"},{"start":12957.566,"end":12978.281,"text":"卡芙創意設計行銷他之前沒有得到這個標案但是呢他卻做了這個標案的內容那為什麼呢因為這個標案的名稱寫得非常清楚就是這個特展的開幕及推廣活動就是開幕及推廣可是推廣呢就是由得標廠商開幕來做但是"},{"start":12979.803,"end":13000.982,"text":"開幕就卡芙來做那我就非常奇怪這兩個廠商關係到底是什麼是同一家廠商嗎同一個負責人嗎還是他們的工作團隊其實同一個但是為了要在投標的時候不要讓人家覺得是綁標所以這兩家都來投標這非常的奇怪次長你應該不會知道那麼細的案子啦請你去查一下好不好"},{"start":13002.083,"end":13029.1,"text":"請查一下為什麼會出現這個狀況就是沒有得標的廠商居然可以來做這個案子的其中一個部分這你會不會覺得很奇怪先初步跟委員說明一下的確這個案子我先前並沒有這個細節那剛剛台灣館館長跟我做的說明是台灣館有另外一個標案是對於全年度台灣館會發生的開幕活動還有另外一個標案所以那個開幕活動得標的是卡福創意學院"},{"start":13029.6,"end":13038.67,"text":"但是你自己看開幕得標廠商標案名稱是什麼?美國現代主義文學特產開幕及推廣活動等於你一個開幕兩個標案啊"},{"start":13041.192,"end":13042.133,"text":"謝謝葉元芝委員部長請回謝謝"},{"start":13075.097,"end":13077.619,"text":"我們接下來請吳佩奕委員謝謝主席我先請李遠部長還有我們李靜蕙次長好請李部長跟李次長委員好我延續前面委員的質詢內容因為剛剛我提到說"},{"start":13103.967,"end":13113.114,"text":"我們剛剛次長是不是有藐視國會的行為所以我必須確認一下次長剛剛這個葉元之委員在請問你有關於文學館這個標案的問題你在回答當中你有稍微停頓請問你是在思考還是你拒絕答覆還是你準備要說謊沒有沒有在思考在思考那請問部長你認為剛剛我們次長中間有停頓讓我們的立委質疑說你是不是在藐視國會的時候你認為他是有意要拒絕答覆嗎"},{"start":13135.515,"end":13143.622,"text":"你看我們那個次長這麼老實的樣子怎麼可能呢是 因為我的觀察也是這樣子但是呢我在這邊還是要講我非常的反對要去制定藐視國會罪為什麼因為拒絕答覆由誰來決定倘若依照我們現在多數反對黨要提的這個藐視國會罪哇剛剛這個情形發生只要多數黨的立委去連署"},{"start":13161.135,"end":13164.477,"text":"就可以構成藐視國會罪 送院會決議還可以懲戒彈劾 這個完全沒有一個客觀的依據 所以如果說這個罪定下去 我認為未來我們在質詢 質詢台是平行的關係 為什麼 因為我們不需要辯論 有辯論才能夠把真理越辯越明 倘若藐視國會罪定下去了 變成上對下的關係 只要有權力關係 沒有辦法好好的辯論"},{"start":13187.91,"end":13192.835,"text":"這個無助於我們去釐清事實那就無助於我們推動事情的進步好 次長先請回那接下來我要請教部長因為前面我有特別來聽了你今天的報告那讓我想起說我人生第一部走進電影院看的電影是我爸爸帶我去看這個道桑"},{"start":13209.073,"end":13234.937,"text":"然後呢我在我爸的出桌上常常看到部長你的書剛剛前面委員問說部長你是七十世代那我是三十世代那我在我就看到呢有一個這個漫畫啦它叫做長老群雄它是以我們台灣電影新浪場就是1980年代新浪場為背景的創作其中我印象很深刻的在這個漫畫裡面其中一個右邊這一位應該是部長李吧"},{"start":13239.162,"end":13241.404,"text":"然後左邊這位是吳念真舞蹈那你們當時是兩個年輕人走進中影的製片公司就在我們西門町的漢中街那你那時候也是剛進入到這個位置對於改變台灣電影的改革有一個很大的夢想但是你們兩個當時有一個辯論說"},{"start":13260.476,"end":13260.496,"text":"其實﹖"},{"start":13288.757,"end":13312.399,"text":"我來之前蠻猶豫的因為我覺得也許很多人會做得比我好又比我年輕但是我覺得我就是因為走過電影曾經在1980年代走過從一個大家蠻看不起台灣電影可以到國際然後我也很喜歡繪本我也很喜歡寫作我也覺得台灣很多作品沒有翻譯到國外去等等"},{"start":13313.18,"end":13336.829,"text":"一直覺得台灣在文化上好像少了一些助力所以我最後答應來做就可以做的事情非常多有非常多的事情要改變沒有錯那除了是我們希望可以仰賴你作為文化人對文化的熟悉以及對文化社群的了解但是我們也要仰賴你過去的文化行政經驗因為行政還是非常重要所以呢台灣館的超型風波我也很關切"},{"start":13339.81,"end":13357.985,"text":"目前文化部給出的回應是我們進行了送政風柱查核我們要對廠商來提告然後再來我們要研議來依約來解約然後我們的這個館長及副館長都自請處分但還是想要請問一個最重要的問題我們能不能夠依法來提報把這個廠商列為拒絕往來戶"},{"start":13364.076,"end":13366.277,"text":"這個我們已經做了吧我們已經做了可以嘛對不對我們採購法就有這樣子的規定我們可以來提報成拒絕往來戶那在這個案件裡面我們要記取什麼樣的教訓呢首先剛剛部長你也說了抄襲當然零容忍絕對不能接受"},{"start":13380.066,"end":13382.949,"text":"但是我們在事件後續的處理第一時間我們沒有得到最正確的資訊反而讓我們的官方的粉絲頁賬號去發布了錯誤的訊息造成了第二度的傷害那這個發文者他就是這個小編他就是我們委託來做這個主視覺創作的同一家廠商啊"},{"start":13404.858,"end":13406.6,"text":"部長了解我的意思嗎?這個畫圖的人、抄襲的人跟幫他發文說然後提供錯誤的資訊給我們管方說啊這個不是抄襲人他們是同一個廠商但是因為這個小編是這家廠商在文學館的駐點人員"},{"start":13421.636,"end":13430.864,"text":"大家長期在互動可能就形成了一種默契所以我覺得要檢討的就是我們必須要去建立第一個我們文化部有沒有針對抄襲事件發生時候處理的流程有沒有相關的SOP第二個文化部不只台灣館我們非常多的轄下的這個場館都有在經營社群帳號"},{"start":13441.934,"end":13445.135,"text":"我們社群帳號的發文有沒有建立一個sop當然在這範圍裡面文化部我們有人員是看過的可是你沒有一個事實查核的程序嘛所以呢這個小編跟你講說啊這個我們沒有抄襲你們就相信了所以這相關的"},{"start":13459.841,"end":13459.881,"text":"委員會委員會"},{"start":13480.854,"end":13486.515,"text":"社群不是小編一個人負責小編沒有辦法替你們負責發生事件再來切割也都不是正確處理的態度所以趕快去盤點到底有多少帳號每一個帳號背後發文那個單位有沒有相關的程序那未來有發生爭議事件的時候經過什麼樣的確認這個文才可以發出去因為這就是我們過去官方的新聞稿你們要等同來重視處理好不好"},{"start":13506.579,"end":13535.688,"text":"部長這個要盡快我認為一個月內要把它盤點出來並且把這個報告提供給本委員會所有的委員了解好那接下來要跟部長討論的是也是我非常關注因為正好呢就在我的選區史博館好不容易開始整修但是過去6年來呢不斷有遭受到一個政治攻擊當中我認為很多是認知作戰跟繳訊息說我們史博館的整修是在去中國化來部長你有沒有看到相關的新聞跟討論"},{"start":13536.528,"end":13562.399,"text":"有 我不但看到還有人寫信給我有人寫信給你嗎那你的回應是什麼我的回應我沒有回應因為我還沒看到後來我真的去現場看到我覺得是一個台灣社會在認知上大家兩個族群非常不信任只要是改的比較現代一點或者是改的過程並沒有那個意思只要拿掉楊英峰設計的那個水池"},{"start":13563.419,"end":13577.618,"text":"就認為是去中國化我覺得是簡化的那個過程因為我後來我有去看我發現它是你有到現場看有有有後來我自己跑去看因為這個是我非常熟悉的環境也是我小時候住在附近長大的地方"},{"start":13578.519,"end":13603.669,"text":"他那個水池本身並不具備了歷史建物的條件他是用一些軟石在堆砌他也不是假山假水所以後來重新設計試的時候覺得擺在那邊很怪他就跟楊英峰的家屬溝通可不可以把它填平而且再擺一個楊英峰的作品那來跟我講的朋友是認為那個作品很醜他不知道是楊英峰的作品大概是這樣我覺得都是一種誤會啦"},{"start":13605.009,"end":13616.725,"text":"那我覺得這點要 我們已經都要解釋 包括大家記憶中最深的那個咖啡館我爸爸媽媽也常常去 因為它是違章建築 所以重新做的時候就把它拿掉這樣"},{"start":13618.004,"end":13641.981,"text":"所以會不會因為有人這樣子批評我們就去改變我們的規劃我覺得不會的原因是就像剛才你講抄襲的事情也好使破管的改建也好我們這個社會一定需要對話否則它那個對立越來越強就是說它明明是一個改建而且完全沒有別的意思重新找個現代建築師來用現代觀念再重新改造"},{"start":13643.002,"end":13655.629,"text":"我覺得每件事情發生他都應該回到真相剛剛你講的那個抄襲事件我覺得很嚴重但是我們回到他真相就知道剛剛講到帳號的問題小編的問題他背後的很嚴重的一連串的問題"},{"start":13660.652,"end":13679.888,"text":"包括這個事情是一個我們台灣到底對美學怎麼樣是最美的東西我們的建築物怎麼樣最美這也是一個需要溝通的一個觀念所以我們改革最常遇到的就是說叫你改回來所以部長我認同把它好好的"},{"start":13681.304,"end":13696.393,"text":"說明好好的溝通那我們是基於什麼樣的理由來進行改建那就讓社會當中能夠更加的了解那最後呢是我要回到我剛剛一開始給部長看的這個漫畫因為我還有另外一張也是印象深刻的"},{"start":13699.293,"end":13707.477,"text":"這個戴眼鏡的是部長嘛那裡面呢你就提到說你以為我們是那種輕易屈服的年輕人嗎那年輕人呢你們就是要有熱情啊要用智慧來突圍當時你們一個對話是說還用智慧來突圍勒我們連機會都沒有"},{"start":13719.85,"end":13723.033,"text":"那就是我現在看到我們台灣文化界年輕一輩的很多的創作者他們所遇到的困境就一如你們在1980年代所遇到的困境一樣有非常強大的夢想也非常的踏實在基層在努力"},{"start":13737.805,"end":13741.426,"text":"但是在文化界裡面已經形成了一個資深制的一個體制讓很多的年輕人也許當年的小野當年的吳念真現在我們這一輩的吳念真這一輩的小野他們已經存在但是他們還沒有被看見他們還沒有機會站一個位置來看看可以改變什麼"},{"start":13763.547,"end":13768.408,"text":"就需要我們給他一個機會所以呢我希望我們文化部能夠去檢視因為包括我們教育部相關的單位教育部目前對於文化領域的學生有這種畢業之後支持他們去去國外學習相關的計畫文化部比較缺少我覺得可惜了所以希望部長你可以全面來盤點"},{"start":13784.813,"end":13795.668,"text":"我們文化部目前各個單位既有的政策工具裡面有哪些我們是可以來專注支持年輕人為台灣去培養下一代的文化創作者好不好"},{"start":13797.557,"end":13821.52,"text":"我可不可以講一句話,就是當年我們在中央電影公司做了很多事情,其實我們只做一個動作,就是把門打開,讓所有有能力的人進來,哪怕是他們很年輕,像侯孝賢、楊德昌、柯一正、張毅,我只做了一個動作,就是把門打開,不再封閉,同樣的我說的是這個年紀,我不會因為這個年紀而改變我的觀念,"},{"start":13822.361,"end":13832.006,"text":"我覺得一個社會創造力最強的就是在年輕世代將來我會希望我們的文化部是年輕人很喜歡從這邊得到資源的單位好 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝吳佩奕委員部長秦暉那我們接下來就來先處理臨時提案今天有委員提出臨時提案有4案請宣讀"},{"start":13851.09,"end":13879.489,"text":"議案進行文化部預計從2023年至2027年執行文化幣政策進行已投入近22億元鼓勵16至22歲的青年體驗藝文生活未來更預計降低領取年齡至13歲以引導資金預注於公益、音樂、圖書、臺灣電影及表演藝術等產業政策利益良善確實有所聞各地表演藝術團隊因不清楚全台"},{"start":13880.149,"end":13901.672,"text":"各縣市文化必使用情形而難以評估每一表演場次是否應規劃青年席次及其數額之窘困。再者,因各縣市藝文事業及人口分布特性,文化部亦有集中於六都消費之現象,不利於推動文化平權,因此未促進資訊揭露規劃文化平權推動方針。"},{"start":13902.313,"end":13921.408,"text":"請文化部一個月內規劃每季提出並公告文化必知使用報告。內容應包括全國及各縣市以領取人數及年齡及比例,以使用金額及比例,使用場域與項目分布年齡及金額及比例,如用於讀律書、電、青年席次、觀賞國片等。"},{"start":13922.89,"end":13936.809,"text":"議員消費點分布數量及比例短期議員消費點分布數量及比例如是及街頭藝人文創展會等其他有利議員通路及團體及工作者設計"},{"start":13938.271,"end":13952.507,"text":"相關行銷方案或促進文化平權之資料數據﹐以發揮文化幣累計消費數據之最大效益提案人陳培宇﹐林一傑﹑任曙然﹑郭益勤﹑陳秀寶吳沛毅﹑范雲第二案"},{"start":13953.148,"end":13977.354,"text":"文化創意產業發展法修正條文於去年5月修正通過其中特別因應社會事件以及產業變化通過了打擊黃牛及投資內容產業因享有租稅優惠的相關條文其中本法有關打擊黃牛之立法條文第10條之一引於112年6月2日施行請貴機關說明該法案施行後之執行情形並針對執行情形提出評估"},{"start":13979.895,"end":13993.301,"text":"同時有關投資內容產業因享有租稅優惠之相關條文．文化部也已於12月1日．已完成發布公司或有限合夥事業．投資國家戰略重點文化創意產業．投資遞減辦法．個人投資國家戰略重點文化創意產業所得而減除辦法．"},{"start":14001.645,"end":14015.26,"text":"及文化部辦理國家戰略重點文化創意產業投資體檢或所得檢除之申請及審核作業要點請貴部提出此法案通過後之施行狀況並針對國家戰略重點文化產業之現行申請狀況"},{"start":14020.946,"end":14039.73,"text":"進行申請類別之分析提案人陳秀寶林盈瑾陳培余張雅玲范雲蘇巧慧第三案請證人於2021年8月合定國家兒童未來館興建計劃作落於新板特專三文化設施用地興建經費更由原先近130億元增至約165億元"},{"start":14042.871,"end":14050.032,"text":"中央政府全職出資興建：文化部更經徵選：邀請張馬龍陳毅林聯合建築師事務所與日本移東風雄建築設計事務所參與國家兒童未來館之設計國家兒童未來館將成為國家級之場館樂觀其成近期文化部督促如期發包與2026年動工興建並於兼顧品質之下加速完工"},{"start":14072.697,"end":14097.808,"text":"提案人陳培宇陳秀寶林盈瑾張雅玲范雲蘇巧慧張鴻祿第4案本月您欠期委員由建於今年113元月案號113校正002監察院糾正指出﹐文化部有關公共藝術設置往往以行政代辦之名行全部委辦之實﹐少數代辦甚至索取回扣與德標公司有重大異常關聯"},{"start":14099.108,"end":14119.738,"text":"成為利益集團統籌與利益分配者：文化部始終以未接獲陳情檢舉為由：對特定代辦壟斷事成以上案件太一樣誓言無睹：文化部專家學者資料庫中委員僅366人：專業層面分布不均且多年未新增：對此文化部正以左手重新檢視"},{"start":14120.918,"end":14149.449,"text":"調整與擴展而有不肖業者已不認熟法取得標案壟斷市場等違法行為文化部稱以要求代辦公司揭露文化部各回應指稱將展開最大規模公共藝術修法基於該糾正案件至今尚未結案文化部應針對糾正內容詳實列出以具體改善成效為完成項目預定完成時間表以及有關大幅修法之草案及進度"},{"start":14150.129,"end":14158.277,"text":"並於一個月內完整回復立法院林倩琦教育文化委員提案人林倩琦、洪孟凱、羅廷外宣的完畢。"},{"start":14162.674,"end":14181.487,"text":"好那我們先來處理第一案喔第一案提案人陳培宇委員有沒有補充意見我沒有補充但是文化部好像有要修改那可不可以請文創司先說明還是文化部這應該部長沒有辦法先說明或是直接請文創司說明好了謝謝好我們請司長說明對對好"},{"start":14192.558,"end":14203.406,"text":"議員的提案我們都會尊重不過後面的推動我們想說是不是在第二段在規劃第二大段裡面規劃文化平權推動方針前文化部一個月內規劃"},{"start":14205.447,"end":14225.594,"text":"每次以提出並公告文化秘之使用報告這個部分一個月可不可以改為三個月那個使用報告的部分是不是加兩個字叫重點使用報告那另外在後面的這個第二段的第五行那個刮糊的部分"},{"start":14226.854,"end":14249.923,"text":"是不是如用於獨立書店、青年席次、觀賞國便等這個瓜糊可不可以就先把它刪除那後面第6段有關於短期藝文消費點的分布數量因為已經在藝文消費點裡面已經有含瓜了所以這個部分是不是可以把它刪除包含那個後面的這個瓜糊的部分以上建議"},{"start":14251.428,"end":14264.438,"text":"好 謝謝文創私我說明一下我想問一下從文化必推動到現在那你們有進行相關的資料整整理的業務報告嗎或者是相關的計劃報告目前到目前為止"},{"start":14266.397,"end":14290.148,"text":"其實往往都是出現了很多新聞弊案例如說有人跑去美甲店啊美髮店用了文化幣或者是有人在各式各樣的市集用了文化幣有相關的新聞輿論出來之後文化部才會做出回應嘛那我們絕對認同文化幣的確是美意而且它也確實促進了很多文化產業從業同仁的有感度是好的但是我們希望在"},{"start":14290.828,"end":14309.104,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":14309.184,"end":14309.204,"text":"議員說明"},{"start":14329.795,"end":14335.338,"text":"非常認同委員的想法但是現在是這樣因為我們現在委員剛提到那些狀況其實它並不是所謂的弊案而是在使用純化的過程也就是說一開始的時候我們放的範圍比較寬而透過適用的方式我們漸漸的去收縮它的範圍"},{"start":14348.064,"end":14373.965,"text":"所以現在會看到更多的事項是不能夠使用文化幣原因在這裡那所以在這裡我們提出從三個月從一個月到三個月倒並不是因為我們沒有在收集我們事實上內部的數據是一直只要有人花文化幣他的數據就一直進來的而是說他現在其實在一個變化的過程包括我們現在採取新的方式電信認證的方式去收集資料所以如果你在一個很短程的資料你的資料的前後你會對不起來"},{"start":14374.966,"end":14398.212,"text":"你會覺得為什麼這裡是這樣那為什麼這裡的資料會所以我們建議以一個比較長的期程以記的方式那用這個方式來提報並且做公告這個部分我們是可以做到的所以市長我跟你確認一下因為你剛剛說的你們一直都有在收集資訊然後也不斷做出調整跟限縮這個部分絕對要給予文化部高度的肯定所以假設在一個月內先給我們前期你們所使用你們已經做出統整的報告讓所有"},{"start":14404.474,"end":14426.932,"text":"所有的教育文化委員會的委員可以作為參考那後續這一個月可以讓你們改成三個月可是之後你們有沒有規劃要定期出相關的文化幣使用報告目前的規劃進度是我們一直認為這些數據因為開放政府的關係他遲早都是要做特定的公告但我們現在的做法是我們在尋求這個"},{"start":14428.373,"end":14434.555,"text":"數據的穩定狀態因為他從去年從18到21今年16到22他所適用的範圍適用的年齡其實一直在變化中所以我們提出來的報告的數字會讓大家非常的confusing這是為什麼我們沒有在現在就提出公告數字那提出這樣的規劃跟未來要怎麼做這個我們可以提出沒有問題只是說請希望"},{"start":14451.48,"end":14477.716,"text":"委員可以同意我們我們現在提出的報告就是一個重點的報告因為他非常的索性而且他可能在前後他所適用的店家會有所不同譬如你在前一個月這個店家在你在下一個月這個店家的數字會改變包括他的營業項目因為現在我們越追越細譬如說現在我們禁止大家做這些直接的購買譬如說你不可以再買這些肥皂啊手做這些東西可是你仍然可以手做那像這麼細緻的差異他在數據的呈現上會非常的"},{"start":14481.078,"end":14481.578,"text":"﹚提出讓委員瞭解﹚"},{"start":14504.983,"end":14526.758,"text":"在第一段提出的時候我們就是針對目前的重點的狀況提出來就是這些分類通通都會在委員也會看得到好所以市長我們再聚焦一下剛剛你們希望我們把一個月內的我們寫的寫法是一個月內規劃每季提出並公告文化壁之使用報告這個一個月你們希望我們改成三個月讓你們比較有長的規劃時間說這個報告怎麼呈現對不對是"},{"start":14530.52,"end":14532.902,"text":"我相信其他所有的委員不會希望看到你剛剛說這麼細的資料其實也是想要看到目前在所有文化創意產業或者是文化產業從事的人員他們如何去看待他們自己的工作或者是他們勞動的結果跟文化幣之間的關係"},{"start":14552.176,"end":14553.577,"text":"對我們來說我們本來內部也會做這樣的檢討好那這沒有問題然後剛剛還有說那個空間的部分要做調整嗎對不對"},{"start":14578.512,"end":14594.006,"text":"關乎裡面的那個那個可以刪掉沒關係不用關乎就對對對對因為我相信你們如果按照剛剛市長說的這麼清楚代表你們應該很多場域的資料都有在收集了那我順帶補充一點因為其實文化幣有那個加碼再加碼再加碼對不對但是你有沒有聽到有很多"},{"start":14595.168,"end":14596.469,"text":"我們看起來對消費者是好的可是卻創造了這個店家他們在結帳上的困境我不知道這個有沒有什麼方法解決啦"},{"start":14618.852,"end":14647.093,"text":"我們來看有什麼更快的方法因為這其實是消費端跟銷售端的不同的差異對消費者來說我當然希望我買完再加碼可是對店家來說你就是製造了我結帳的麻煩但是他也增加了他的收入可能是沒有錯沒有錯那其實在一個平衡這個也許就拜託你們多想一想對我們在想在執行上有沒有可以更簡化的程序是好謝謝市長謝謝那沒有問題其他修改沒有問題"},{"start":14648.493,"end":14665.092,"text":"好 謝謝裴雲委員謝謝次長的說明喔好那我們這一個案子就按照文化部的建議喔我們就修正通過那我們來看第二個案子第二個案子提案人是蘇巧慧委員她也在現場有沒有補充說明的嗎"},{"start":14670.112,"end":14695.144,"text":"我想我的這個臨時提案也非常感謝文化部已經可以同意了那我想打擊黃牛的這個部分以及我們希望能夠在文化創意產業的所得而剪除辦法等等這些都是跟文化產業發展相當重要的我等一下會質詢啦所以就不再利用這個時間既然貴部已經同意了的話好那我就等一下在台上的時候說謝謝"},{"start":14696.505,"end":14698.786,"text":"第4案是林倩琦委員的案子 有什麼需要補充說明的嗎?"},{"start":14733.73,"end":14738.813,"text":"有些修正文字一點點就是按由之後直接接有鑒於今年一一三"},{"start":14740.12,"end":14760.02,"text":"就這樣直接接最後少一個委員會的會就這兩個小地方直接有介於今年那個如果是那個好沒關係爭論爭論爭論委員要保留嗎保留OK"},{"start":14765.701,"end":14773.094,"text":"可是我們通常提案就是我們整個委員會提案所以基本上我們不會前面確實要刪掉"},{"start":14776.001,"end":14784.847,"text":"因為提案人是你,可是就是說你在按鈕就不用再寫你的名字了,所以這個還是文化部的意見比較OK。那就把前面刪掉跟後面加個會,那我們就按照文化部的建議就修正通過。"},{"start":14799.537,"end":14800.217,"text":"蘇巧會委員請質詢李部長"},{"start":14825.732,"end":14854.756,"text":"委員好部長好部長先跟您恭喜今天是第一次到我們的立法院備詢那其實每一任的部長都有他關心的方向像我們鄭麗君部長其實就帶來了公部門結構性的改變領友的部長用基層的歷練把文化部非常多的難題都做了實際的解決使得部長是帶動了文化和產業的結合帶入了很多資金的注入推動黑潮計畫那部長請問你的重點會是什麼"},{"start":14855.636,"end":14864.043,"text":"可以解答嗎?我的重點就是會把整個文化的推廣往下往下砸根啊所以是會特別注重兒少的部分就對了部長我也非常同意這個部分因為過去我們在佈建了這麼多的文化理想之後其實我們會回到最後發現說"},{"start":14875.592,"end":14902.034,"text":"如果能夠從一張白紙的時候就開始把它畫上好的顏色多元的顏色或者是從一塊原始的木頭就雕往正確的方向我覺得其實這個路可以走得更少更正確啦好可是問題是這個要怎麼走呢不然我今天喔如果你看到你的文化部就如同現在是一個新的概念在執行的話那你今天提出的這個業務報告裡面這個方向甚至是分類"},{"start":14902.574,"end":14918.608,"text":"我都非常的認同因為坦白講我今天這樣在翻淺顯易懂而且面面俱到大部分都是我們過去這幾年連我本人都非常重視的部分好那如果你剛剛說兒少的話那我就先跟你請教啊那個公視兒少台的開台你有預計的時間嗎"},{"start":14922.932,"end":14933.083,"text":"不然我只有4分鐘8月20今年就可以了嘛對不對那對於這個內容的部分你著重的方向會是在哪一部分教育比較多娛樂比較多"},{"start":14934.98,"end":14964.051,"text":"我著重在各個方向因為我覺得他應該不要用過去那個以前我們對兒童節目的看法是都是分類嘛對不對非常的分類其實現在的小孩如果看到這麼多的影音節目之外其實之後其實已經不是像我們當時這樣分類任何一種概念都是融在節目裡面的所以部長光是這一題第一題的第一小題基本上就要有新的概念更不要說部長你在提到的校外文化體驗我也質詢過非常多次"},{"start":14964.551,"end":14991.004,"text":"其實你說現在要讓各個小朋友可以去各地的演藝廳、美術館、博物館我也贊成但你現在再怎麼說說到這裡如果只有單就文化部的話我覺得這個還是場館體驗啦坦白講也還是場館體驗所以我會希望能夠跳脫更多的思維你直接跟教育部合作是不是有可能的比如說教育部其實有他規定的一些提出的一些場館"},{"start":14992.225,"end":15012.757,"text":"比如說像921地震紀念館甚至是國家的太空中心這個已經遠超過您現在在這裡提出的展演中心我為什麼提這個因為我們事實上可以有更多的太空文化場域之外可以是太空文化體驗這是你可以做到的甚至是我們一直在說我們從出版界比如說我們一直在講台漫藝人茶几我覺得非常好的漫畫"},{"start":15018.66,"end":15043.217,"text":"﹖"},{"start":15044.212,"end":15048.276,"text":"部長這個一定是好的啦你說對就好了快點我生二十五啦對啦對啦這一定好的啦我跟你講的然後後面其實我還有太多比如說出版產業界你在這個第9頁這邊喔你說為了保障出版社的合理利潤喔"},{"start":15060.469,"end":15085.144,"text":"要鼓勵各縣市公共圖書館以7折以上採購這個我也完全贊成質詢多次另外你說要擴大電子書的計次借閱服務的話我也認為非常好因為本席之前推動了公共借閱權過去限於紙本書那看起來有它的困難如果你能夠把它轉型成為電子書我覺得非常好大力給你支持希望能夠徹底的執行做到部長這也可以同意吧對不對對是"},{"start":15086.525,"end":15111.399,"text":"好了 所以我們今天要講4分鐘實在是到底要怎麼講文化政策好我的意思是說部長您的這裡面有非常多的是方針方向我都同意但有很多也是可以執行的具體政策就像剛剛跟您就教的幾個我只講最後一個就是文化和產業的部分其實我們這幾年在文策院的表現非常的突出帶了非常多的資金進來"},{"start":15112.56,"end":15137.467,"text":"企業界產業界已經開始可以感受到火水的進行本身是非常的希望以影視英文龍頭但是後面跟著出版跟著IP跟著動漫等等都可以一起就像你說的協同文策院推動三大電信科技業跨國媒體娛樂集團的合作我們在保有自己文化獨特性的同時一定要讓產業"},{"start":15138.867,"end":15157.22,"text":"也能夠同步進行兩隻腳兩軌並行我想文化才能夠真正的落實在台灣的每個面向這是我在看了這麼多任部長之後今天新部長來利用這短短的時間跟你分享我的心得也順便告知未來我質詢的方向謝謝謝謝謝謝部長謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝謝謝蘇巧慧委員部長請回那我們接下來請楊瓊英委員"},{"start":15175.97,"end":15194.607,"text":"主席很溫柔都會讓我們敬請講不好意思我拿著謝謝主席主席本期想邀請部長邀請李部長"},{"start":15200.066,"end":15225.111,"text":"委員好部長好部長你剛才在答詢當中講了一個讓我很感動的因為我曾經好幾次歷任的部長來我都會跟他講一句話一個城市如果沒有文化沒有藝術這個城市絕對不是成功的城市人民的心中他的生活如果沒有藝術沒有文化那他絕對不是一個優質的人"},{"start":15226.331,"end":15231.517,"text":"完全贊成所以剛剛我感動的是你講了一句話你說我們的教育失敗"},{"start":15244.861,"end":15266.44,"text":"因為沒有上美術課沒有上音樂課沒有上體育課所以藝術文化流失藝術文化流失所以呢等於說如果如此一直繼續下去一個時代對文化的漠視跟侵滅那真的糟糕"},{"start":15267.455,"end":15289.737,"text":"這就是你說的﹖誰會買童書﹖你父母自己本身會喜歡﹖你才會去買﹖生教、研教很重要﹖家庭教育、社會教育、學校教育﹖這是要三方合作﹖所以就因為你講了﹖你很直白地說教育是失敗的﹖"},{"start":15290.598,"end":15312.212,"text":"所以我們要怎麼做所以我感動的是你可以在文化部長的這個口中直白的講出目前台灣的現象我們要怎麼做所以呢接下來我們既然有這個默契我們要好好的來推動所以我們看到呢這四年執政"},{"start":15313.359,"end":15340.554,"text":"的難題我相信現在大家就定位請您來擔任我們的文化部長但是我們也看到您以了這個資深作家大家非常尊敬還有從目前副院長鄭麗君副院長她以前也擔任過部長從政委史哲先生她也擔任過所以在這個新任的內閣當中我們有三位"},{"start":15342.239,"end":15371.281,"text":"前高院的文化部長所以讓我們信心因為就正如你說的你喜歡你懂你才有辦法做事所以要請教共推的文化立國是未來的目標嗎請教部長當然是所以在這樣的情況之下我們又有人說台灣文化產業發展的方向到底是什麼部長你要怎麼推動"},{"start":15373.795,"end":15400.152,"text":"因為產業本身是相關聯的剛剛提到如果是用影視音做產業龍頭的話它事實上它涉及到非常多的音樂出版等等我想是一起做就環環相扣的一個東西是環環相扣是一起做當然現在的回答呢沒有那麼細目但是原則是扣在一起的所以我也請你把你預計要怎麼做順便資料給本席"},{"start":15401.293,"end":15412.862,"text":"我們一起好好地來努力那當然在文創的這個產業方面我們還是要有內需的市場對不對所以在這個情況之下我們看到113年度的預算裡頭文化創意產業"},{"start":15418.045,"end":15435.889,"text":"發展的部分你編了7000多萬來辦理這些的推動那同時在我們近10年當中我們看到我們看到整體的文創產業外銷的比例部長外銷的比例好像這樣幾下最後一層"},{"start":15439.79,"end":15450.518,"text":"而且這一層還高度集中在少數的次產業裡頭所以在這樣的情況之下我們6年來整體的文創產業外銷的成長率他是不如鄰近國家韓國我們也真的差蠻多英國也差蠻多所以部長在我們整個文化產業我們要如何的來提升這一個競爭力"},{"start":15468.052,"end":15493.333,"text":"因為我們推估了國發會給你推估全國總人口數到159年他會減了大概二到三成所以內需會少人但是我們外推又不到一成在這樣的情況之下這個挑戰是蠻大的所以我們要怎麼樣來協助我們的文創產業可以提升他的國際競爭力部長"},{"start":15495.635,"end":15516.514,"text":"基本上你一定要找到台灣本身跟人家不同的東西包括電影類型或者文學創作或者繪本你一定要找到自己跟人家不一樣的不然你回答到這裡就有點喔要有特色喔他不是在爭第一喔他是要創造世界的唯一喔"},{"start":15517.755,"end":15532.769,"text":"這個才可以蓬勃發展嗎?這個論點認得嗎?沒有錯,因為我們跨出一步就是要世界第一對,所以剛剛你也回答說你希望由產業來發展但是部長,你現在是部長了我們有資源"},{"start":15533.925,"end":15554.525,"text":"政府有資源要怎麼樣去支援分配這個推動很重要 對不對 對不對所以我也希望你將文創產業要如何提升國際競爭力你也請順便資料方案給本席好不好最後一個議題因為是延續性的大家非常關心黃牛票的問題"},{"start":15555.868,"end":15579.943,"text":"在歷任的部長本席都一直一直一直的跟部長在討論所以部長各類的詐騙犯罪層出不窮那我們文化部這邊打詐準備好了嗎當時我們討論出在你接的上任說一個月內邀請相關單位來討論我們也希望"},{"start":15580.888,"end":15592.638,"text":"也希望您接續上來這個議題黃流票的議題因為本期不希望在我們的藝術文化還染到了這個詐騙哇 這個讓人家會傷心啊 對不對部長文化藝術不能如此嘛我們5月23日會召開跨部會的一個協調 這個事情我們一定要想辦法解決"},{"start":15604.481,"end":15626.897,"text":"5月23日我們也希望能夠討論出這個方案我們希望黃牛票的亂象要消失還給我們藝術文化一個非常乾淨的一個空間 對不對所以我們也期待5月23日所以我們希望今年才開始的常態化的文化幣"},{"start":15628.246,"end":15646.377,"text":"也有很多人在平台上面在轉售在收購甚至賣假幣的情況所以我們也希望在你們5月23號討論的時候一併把這些納入項目好好的去討論好不好我們期待之喔期待之謝謝謝謝好謝謝謝謝楊崇英委員部長請回我們接下來請麥玉珍委員"},{"start":15662.576,"end":15665.679,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長好 有請部長委員好好 部長好我要請教部長一下如果社區提出一部電影稀為說謊無罪成為教育影片你接受嗎對不起 你剛才講哪一部影片"},{"start":15686.397,"end":15705.105,"text":"例如,你接受嗎?虛偽說謊的,變成一個教育的影片你接受嗎?沒有在PPT裡面,我想要請教你這樣子的我沒有完全太懂你的意思"},{"start":15706.67,"end":15708.652,"text":"所以我們說我們要把就是法"},{"start":15723.49,"end":15753.49,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":15753.71,"end":15770.786,"text":"就是沒有在PPT裡面因為我在質詢的時候就聽到很多所以就是要問一下為了保障新住民的文化平淺文化部積極推動多元文化的交流通過文化交流的學習還有就是讓我們更多元但是在"},{"start":15771.807,"end":15778.537,"text":"而我們的社交裡面呢我們都一直在去推動但是我上次有問過因為上個部長說他要推動到現在為止我還沒有看到說我們有新住民的"},{"start":15788.55,"end":15796.252,"text":"議員推廣及社區營造參與的計畫到目前為止還沒有看到所以不知道是說我們的社區營造的文化發展的計畫是有把這個計畫納入在裏面還是說我們今年有跟其他的過往的年就是有分開的"},{"start":15811.725,"end":15827.436,"text":"昨天已經公告這一點了昨天已經有公告所以說有另外的就是跟往年一樣是有另外一個計畫嘛是不是好所以因為在我們的社造在105到現在"},{"start":15829.577,"end":15846.88,"text":"因為我也是在各個社區發展去演講去分享因為我有得到一百年的文學獎的第一個新住民得獎所以呢我看到很多社區都是補助大家跟我們反映的經費很少"},{"start":15847.521,"end":15866.851,"text":"又讓我們社區做很多還有說有很多的產品他們就是手工做好了但是沒有一個平台也沒有一個地方讓大家可以把這些的文物推廣出去請問部長我們未來有沒有為我們的社區設立一個就是讓大家有這樣子的創作也有一個平台也有讓更多的社會民眾看到這樣"},{"start":15876.232,"end":15896.138,"text":"我其實非常重視這個新住民包括社區營造我身邊也蠻多的朋友是新住民我也參與過新住民文學獎你是德國第一名嗎是其實我非常覺得台灣的文化裡要有新住民的文化參與之後會使我們台灣的文化更壯大這點請你放心"},{"start":15898.649,"end":15905.236,"text":"好所以我們希望就是說不只是這樣就是我們看到的就是每一個縣市的審查都不一樣所以希望說我們的審查就像我們的這個審查跟這個縣市的審查每一個審查的制度"},{"start":15916.688,"end":15924.054,"text":"還有就是專業的委員我們這邊都不一致希望我們文化部再有一個專業的小組還是說我們有一個機制讓每一個縣市的社區再去申請的時候就是會收到"},{"start":15931.96,"end":15932.16,"text":"我照顧"},{"start":15949.195,"end":15968.52,"text":"我想臺灣非常需要新著名的文化加入我們從食藝住行還有文學創作我剛才講過我當過評審是是是我們社區也是一樣因為社區也希望我們讓我們部會可以更公平也創造一個多元文化的共融的一個平台這樣好謝謝部長期待"},{"start":15973.442,"end":15993.845,"text":"好謝謝蔓玉珍委員部長請回我們接下來請邱志偉委員邱志偉邱志偉委員不在我們請林柱英委員林柱英林柱英委員不在我們現在請鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌委員不在接下來請高金素梅委員"},{"start":16002.952,"end":16006.065,"text":"謝謝趙偉我們有請李部長好有請李部長"},{"start":16008.134,"end":16034.421,"text":"部長早安委員好從早上到現在您辛苦了還沒用餐還有在我心中您是永遠的校長小野校長我沒想到我們是老朋友了我們會在今天這樣的場合我們互相見面那我今天會對你的第一次質詢呢我們想要來一起跟你探討一下因為只有四分鐘的時間多元文化"},{"start":16035.781,"end":16044.052,"text":"請問一下部長您是怎麼看待台灣所謂的多元文化而多元文化包含了哪幾些哪些元素然後哪些族群"},{"start":16045.236,"end":16070.873,"text":"台灣在很長一段時間是一時獨立的台灣曾經是一個南島民族的發源地所以在跟外面的文明接觸以前台灣是很長的一段時間是原住民的文化甚至於大家對那個當時的原住民的語言跟什麼都不是很清楚所以需要很長的時間調查400年前開始台灣浮出跟世界的文明接觸所以台灣是一個"},{"start":16072.647,"end":16072.927,"text":"臺灣的文化"},{"start":16089.701,"end":16094.865,"text":"部長,我們就以台灣現在的教科書來看,我們把那個族群的界定分為五大類,原住民族"},{"start":16113.661,"end":16133.991,"text":"客家、閩南、外省、新住民所以我們在台灣稱為所謂的多元文化就是這五大族群文化您同意嗎不完全因為外省本身又包括來自整個中國大陸的不同的省份還有閩南其實這樣子分有一點點簡化"},{"start":16136.459,"end":16155.913,"text":"我想請教一下部長就是我們可以看就是文化部裡面他的預算編列反映是他的政策的思想我們來看一下文化部113年度總預算總共是298億元而在原住民族文化事務發展相關的經費只有2億"},{"start":16158.115,"end":16170.229,"text":"僅僅占了文化部總預算的百分之零點七連百分之一都不到多元文化原住民文化預算只有百分之零點七你會怎麼樣形容台灣的多元文化"},{"start":16172.54,"end":16189.872,"text":"我剛剛一直強調預算的編列會反映了政策的思想其實呢我在您今天的這個文化部的這個19頁的報告裡面在推動多元族群文化發展只有第4裡面有一兩個小塊一個就是"},{"start":16190.612,"end":16218.893,"text":"人民會從103年5月起這個設立了文化部的業務平台已經召開了20次的合作會議合作了達118項我在這邊補充說明一下這個就是我建立的平台可是呢建立平台一直到現在從他的預算的結構上面看到好像我們在台灣或者是我們的文化部對於所謂的文化多元這一塊"},{"start":16220.174,"end":16241.166,"text":"好像不怎麼樣文化多元你怎麼看這件事情我瞭解是今年我們編了兩億四十萬九千可能當初的預算因為已經有個圓明會然後電視台可能他把預算編到那邊去了未來我想從文化部的角度我會增加這個部分的"},{"start":16243.527,"end":16264.258,"text":"請問一下這個部長您會怎麼樣在預算裡面把您的理念把你的多元文化的這樣的想法放進去大概簡單的說一下可以嗎?其實包括原住民時常會有一個活動是回到自己的家屋回到自己原來住的地方那我們其實有個"},{"start":16265.319,"end":16265.779,"text":"嗯,好所以所以"},{"start":16286.574,"end":16310.953,"text":"會把預算增加嗎?百分之零點七我想應該可以增加好 謝謝部長您剛上任真的是任重道遠文化部在明年的預算裡面我們希望在審查預算的時候可以看到民時相符的多元文化政策今天的質詢也請部長在兩個禮拜之內提供一些您對於原住民政策預算相關的研議報告書可以嗎?"},{"start":16312.234,"end":16332.719,"text":"因為剩下一點點時間在這邊請部長我知道您這個上任才沒多久要這個整個瞭解文化部裡面的文化也好這個行政部門的執行狀況也好要花一段很長的時間但是呢我建議您啊回去了之後看一下我在3月27號"},{"start":16334.6,"end":16339.686,"text":"質詢前部長史哲1624大系的質詢內容你剛剛也特別帶了這個戲劇來對吧你還沒時間看嘛對吧"},{"start":16344.485,"end":16365.919,"text":"我這個戲剛好沒看過好我花了三個小時看了對裡面拍攝的技巧還有什麼陣容他的預算我都沒有什麼意見但是呢我對這裡面1624裡面的文化部尤其是史哲前部長他的相關的"},{"start":16367,"end":16385.711,"text":"理念和新價值我有很大的意見所以我建議部長您回去的時候也看一下下次我來跟您討論更深入的問題因為做一個文化部部長他要掌管的是整個全台灣的文化底蘊的呈現"},{"start":16386.992,"end":16408.281,"text":"不過在剛剛您回答幾位委員的質詢裡面我看到一個還是非常文化界然後非常有文化氣質底蘊內涵的小野我希望未來你能夠把文化部的氣氛甚至於全台灣的文化的氣氛把它帶到不是一個對立的一個所謂的文化價值"},{"start":16409.602,"end":16434.316,"text":"部長您剛剛幾個回答我都覺得蠻好的蠻給你稱讚的希望您在這邊能夠加油繼續努力然後把真正的台灣這一塊美麗的文化價值核心理念把它真正的呈現在我們要這個文化部裡面要去執行的相關預算而不是而不是用人來管人"},{"start":16435.336,"end":16459.145,"text":"用政治價值來管台灣的文化您同意嗎委員這點請你放心我過去在我的所有工作裡面對原住民的文化我充滿了興趣我不僅僅是原住民的我還講的是台灣的文化的美麗還有它的價值核心您知道文化來自於歷史的底蘊"},{"start":16460.465,"end":16485.044,"text":"所謂的歷史的底蘊就不是切割式的不是輪轉式的轉盤式的而是真正的怎麼樣把這段歷史給找回來然後找到核心的價值理念然後再把美麗的東西放進去人是最美麗的但是呢有很多人把人變得很可惡那這是誰在做百分之零點一的人在操作這些人"},{"start":16486.005,"end":16506.212,"text":"所以今天我很高興您在這邊任文化部部長希望真正把臺灣這塊美麗美麗的核心價值找回來而不是用政治對立的價值可以嗎我跟你深深的期待謝謝希望您回去看1624我的質詢我下次我們再來探討一下OK謝謝謝謝你謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝謝謝高金淑美委員好部長請回我們接下來請武力華委員"},{"start":16522.425,"end":16525.607,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長有請部長委員好我們又見面了謝謝部長我很開心看到您來掌舵文化部相信會有新氣象那文化部這幾年一直在標榜著壯大台灣內容建立文化自信"},{"start":16546.892,"end":16557.207,"text":"我相信提到壯大台灣的內容您應該不會否認原住民的文化底蘊是很重要的一個部分對吧"},{"start":16558.462,"end":16584.582,"text":"那我在這邊是想要跟部長就是聊一下因為我覺得在政府部門做這麼多事情的當中有很多很細微的威脅管的部分末梢的部分往往是政府不容易掌握到的那可能是基於我們的法規那我在這邊想要跟您提幾個部分像第一個您看一下這個圖片"},{"start":16587.239,"end":16606.831,"text":"這個是在屏東太武鄉有一個村叫做嘉興村,它叫布勒頂。這個村很特別,因為日治時期當時日本人有在這邊設置一個公益指導所,因為他們發現部落很多人都很會做木雕。"},{"start":16608.032,"end":16616.698,"text":"那我曾經在這個地方服務過但是因為這是一個很小的部落他的學校早就已經分校廢棄了"},{"start":16618.874,"end":16642.147,"text":"我是這個本校泰晤國小的校長所以呢我很努力做一件事就是讓學校有木雕課程所以我們辦了一個展一百年的接力賽過去這一些一百年前的這些先人他們的作品其實很多都被收藏到日本的博物館"},{"start":16643.7,"end":16671.482,"text":"那年輕一輩傳承下來越來越少所以我們希望學校也要來上木雕那為什麼我會從這個開始說起這些年我很難過我看到好多的木雕師你看那個作品那麼棒可是他們過世的時候連一個記錄他們曾經做過什麼的文字手冊都沒有因為家人不懂不會"},{"start":16672.663,"end":16686.762,"text":"那像這個我們有提報他做文資身份但是他沒有趕上拿到他的因為他那時候已經癌末所以只能夠把這個證書送到他的靈堂前面"},{"start":16687.847,"end":16704.563,"text":"那又或者說像這個高富貴那個時候他得癌症他也是嘉興村的他特別做了一個木雕作品跑到那個時候我已經在縣政府當原民處處長他跟我講說這個是他要送給當時2016年當選的蔡英文總統"},{"start":16709.318,"end":16730.775,"text":"他在那邊告訴我說這個代表什麼那個握手是代表將來總統要握到不能夠分階級不能分族群不能分聰明愚笨他跟每一個人的手握到他都要接納但是呢他還沒有見到總統就過世了所以我的意思是說如果我們能夠有一個研討會"},{"start":16733.038,"end":16748.324,"text":"就會有很多的學生學者會去採訪做填調會把他們記錄下來那我在這裡是要跟部長您說謝謝因為我上一次幾個月前"},{"start":16749.324,"end":16763.281,"text":"我有來質詢這個部分那謝謝我們文化部的同仁文資局有找台灣公益研究中心會在今年的12月會辦理一個原住民公益的研討會"},{"start":16764.602,"end":16785.937,"text":"也會去針對這些木雕村木雕博物館來去做一個發展所以我這個部分要先跟部長您提所以接下來我要講的就是像是我們的步道師您應該很清楚他們也逐漸凋零啊可是步道是要成為文資保存者還沒辦法呢"},{"start":16786.838,"end":16799.045,"text":"因為依照現在的法規先要有步道的文資身份步道師才能夠具備文資身份可是原住民的古道有幾條啊"},{"start":16800.222,"end":16827.202,"text":"可是我們的步道是能等嗎所以這個部分我希望部長這個功課就交給您你想想看我們怎麼來完成這件事好不好那又例如我們要去做這個我看到我們的施政理念文化部的重點有再造歷史場域有歷史與文化資產的維護這幾年我們看到哇舊好長好不容易一棟做起來老七家加固做起來"},{"start":16828.303,"end":16847.005,"text":"可是我要說的是好多的部落舊來義舊古樓舊排灣舊好茶好多老七家我們有一點要跟時間賽跑欸這些多麼美在崇山峻嶺中而且這幾年原住民都喊給我一條回家的路"},{"start":16848.513,"end":16862.558,"text":"政府也很重視這些過去的古道他怎麼串聯怎麼恢復所以在這邊我就是特別也希望給部長這個功課您可以想一想現在既然是重點政策但是我們是在跟時間賽跑能不能錢多一點"},{"start":16866.72,"end":16890.819,"text":"經費編多一點讓他們跟時間賽跑的這些文化工程能夠快速的建立起來還有一個功課要給我們的部長主席不好意思再給我一個功課就是我們的地方藝文場館我們看到你們有活化的計畫可是我要去講的是私人的部分您看一下這個是一個阿里的杜文喜這個是我過去把他搶救的"},{"start":16893.641,"end":16913.828,"text":"他沒有文物館他家人很希望有文物館但是我們找不到文物館又例如這個是一個排灣族三寶工藝館他這個是琉璃珠之母他每個月花兩萬五的租金在內埔的水門去做一個工藝館"},{"start":16915.248,"end":16931.573,"text":"他是靠賣琉璃珠維持但是他說人家房東要漲房租要把他趕走他也很希望能夠有一個自己的公益館那例如在南投布農族這個黑黑股的支部伯伯"},{"start":16932.193,"end":16952.398,"text":"﹗"},{"start":16952.518,"end":16970.843,"text":"他現在失智,他的家人竟然拜託我們說能不能夠找人家把他的木雕全部賣掉希望讓他治病,他也需要有一個文物館所以我要講的是說,壯大台灣的內容,原住民有太多的東西可以貢獻給國家"},{"start":16972.903,"end":16977.247,"text":"希望我們這一些末梢我們看不到的地方我們都很願意來幫忙大家帶路希望呢能夠真正的去把我們的這個文化去奠定起來讓台灣可以跟中國不一樣讓世界看到台灣那部長這是我想說您新上任給您出一點點新的功課那希望我相信您的理念"},{"start":16999.986,"end":17006.908,"text":"你的價值一定可以帶領我們的文化部去注意到這一些更需要幫忙的地方好不好非常非常贊成因為我小時候一出生我爸爸就保存了非常多的那個原住民的木雕跟畫所以這個對我來講是成長中根深蒂固的記憶希望我們的經費可以多編列一點去幫助好不好好謝謝部長謝謝主席"},{"start":17029.039,"end":17034.363,"text":"主席好,各位官員,各位委員,大家午安。是不是有請部長?好,有請林部長"},{"start":17055.738,"end":17073.82,"text":"委員好部長午安首先恭喜您來擔任我們的這個文化部長那您是一個創作家也是相當很多人景仰的這個創作家那您在有你的作品勇之聲藝文有提到勇之死若是能喚起無助的勇士"},{"start":17074.421,"end":17097.781,"text":"永之生,那麼永之時就有價值了所以我認為說您來接任這個文化部的部長一定可以為我們台灣的文化的創新來做打拼不過要先請部長看一下以下這些圖這個是520賴總統就職典禮的主視覺的對照就您這個資深的文化人的角度你會不會覺得這些的這個圖案都很類似"},{"start":17098.422,"end":17124.539,"text":"他們的畫風是不是風格以及他的設計概念跟元素是不是都很類似我相信今天有很多的委員有請教請部長回答一下這個問題剛剛有人問過如果我是來這樣做如果你問我做我不會這樣做但是你說他抄襲抄襲本身是有一個那個鑑定方式是好謝謝部長因為我還沒來不及說抄襲我說我個人也不一定說認定他是否是抄襲"},{"start":17125.66,"end":17133.806,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":17148.903,"end":17164.173,"text":"非常清楚而且我們已經進行了著手調查我要跟部長報告的是因為臺灣我們現在還是有非常多的廠商需要來去做政府的表案那這家廠商叫做蹦世界數位創意有限公司他是在民國"},{"start":17165.194,"end":17180.39,"text":"一百零二年創立的可是他在過去的時間都沒有拿到政府的標案他只會一到一百零六年蔡英文政府上台了以後才開始取得政府的標案我來幫大家統計一下他在一百零六年的時候的這個標案的金額大家可以看到"},{"start":17181.351,"end":17197.565,"text":"在可以查到的金額是1400多萬但那時候他的資本額其實才400萬然後他在這幾年從106年到113年他總共得標的金額是7100多萬那讓大家最不能接受在去年的112年的展覽數位內容的採購案裡面他一開始來下一頁"},{"start":17208.186,"end":17219.932,"text":"他一開始就是被認為說他有抄襲大陸的會師的創作可是第一時間這個蕭副館長他第一時間是否認的那請問他為什麼從否認變成是他後來認為是有抄襲請部長回答"},{"start":17225.8,"end":17243.271,"text":"這個其實我前面已經講過我覺得台灣的文化裡面最不好的一件事就是他不能夠接受失敗也不能夠接受自己做錯事情所以第一時間想要去遮蓋它我覺得這個遮蓋比前面的抄襲還嚴重這點我在前面已經非常強調過"},{"start":17244.312,"end":17268.932,"text":"好 謝謝部長我覺得這樣的行為非常的不可取那我針對未來希望不要有這樣的事件來做發生因為他這樣的招標的招標案就本席得知他是限制型招標所以就部長而言他是否有其他的廠商來去做投標這是第一個問題第二個他為何要用限制型招標他有什麼一定要去限制的理由嗎不是最有利標為什麼要限制型招標"},{"start":17271.442,"end":17274.024,"text":"對,這是我要問部長的問題是他到底要限制什麼東西,因為他一直過去連續得標,而且"},{"start":17286.24,"end":17311.302,"text":"好那我請市長回答好嗎好謝謝部長謝謝市長跟委員報告這邊所謂的限制型招標是相對於我們不是用最低標所以我們還是一個公開讓廠商可以來提案經過評選經過委員會的評選之後所選出來的這邊的限制型招標並不是我們直接委託蹦世界這跟委員特別做一個說那請問有沒有其他廠商投標"},{"start":17312.373,"end":17318.118,"text":"有一百一十二年基本上是從一百一十一年的標案做後續擴充那在一百一十一年的招標裡面是有兩家廠商來進場競爭的好謝謝所以這邊部長不好意思"},{"start":17336.28,"end":17352.923,"text":"所以這邊還是要拜託部長的部分未來像這樣子的事情我們會擔心用限制型燒標是不是有幫廠商量身訂做這些問題還有就是說政府的單位部分一定要查清楚這些很多類似的創作要如何來去做一個"},{"start":17353.664,"end":17377.329,"text":"一個分辨到底是不是很類似還是抄襲的這樣的行為那政府單位的部分第一時間的時候我覺得要先釐清不應該是以護航為主而讓政府的公信力為去做一個這個政府的公信力會做一個喪失的動作那我還是非常相信部長您的新的上任一定就像您剛剛的這個我剛剛跟大家報告這個永之聖這句話我希望就是部長可以為台灣的文創來做一個嶄新的開端"},{"start":17380.43,"end":17385.311,"text":"那未來有任何限制性招標的問題也盡量可以減少謝謝部長謝謝委員好 謝謝 謝謝張志倫委員部長請回好 我們接下來請吳思堯委員吳思堯委員吳思堯委員不在我們請徐欣盈委員徐欣盈徐欣盈委員不在我們接下來請林倩琦委員"},{"start":17420.258,"end":17424.105,"text":"謝謝張偉 那麼我們就有請李部長小野部長好有請部長部長首先我想給你拍拍手謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":17433.921,"end":17459.659,"text":"早上我聽到本黨的立委同仁有跟部長的對話有一件事我非常的感動我們也知道在許多的藝術項目裡面如果能夠從這個藝術的本質裡面得到感動我想是一件很真實的事情早上我們也有立委同仁這邊跟您提到有關中正紀念堂當然很多件事但是談到儀隊的這個部分"},{"start":17461.76,"end":17477.738,"text":"您這邊的一個講法回應我覺得對這件事情非常的感動你說他們是這樣被挪進挪出的從以他們為主體的考量確實好像是一種功能化的操作"},{"start":17479.32,"end":17491.087,"text":"這個部分我很感謝你有這樣的一個思考不過這個應該是我們議員提到的這樣一個想法我也突然間有了一個"},{"start":17493.471,"end":17506.723,"text":"想法跟建議你也可以聽聽看當然我覺得我們可以問一下這個儀隊要不要看他們對過去這段時間在儀隊操作我想他們可能沒有那麼多的時間去想我們討論的議題但是"},{"start":17509.505,"end":17523.62,"text":"如果不是移情委員問,我也沒有特別去注意到這裡面的儀隊,因為我們以前可能注意到國家,對不起那個國父監獄館,那或者是中央夜市,那那個就如同您講的,因為它在戶外空間的這一段時間的一個"},{"start":17528.325,"end":17541.993,"text":"在生活經驗上對你來講是很特別的所以我覺得您的講法也很不錯但是議員這邊我覺得他提到這個思考那您可以或許在這個做法上也是可以有這樣一個"},{"start":17544.174,"end":17561.409,"text":"可以試試看,想想看所以今天這是我剛才早上聽到非常感動的一件事不過我覺得大家的論述跟想法都值得來討論所以我覺得做實際的一個情形上如果這個儀隊覺得在戶外跟室內我想他會有不同的一個文化的展現"},{"start":17562.39,"end":17582.446,"text":"不過這就看整個部裡面的操作不過您也提到你不希望形式變成文化可是這個文化某一些形式它確實就會變成文化不過這個部分我們可以在文化的內涵上來做一個思考所以今天其實我們對您都非常的期待因為您確實是有專業內容的一位部長"},{"start":17583.266,"end":17599.373,"text":"所以我想在專業內容如果能夠有我們文化部的同仁一起來努力的話應該是會達到很不錯的一個成果那我也期待在文化部的一個定位上還有未來的事務推動上可以有一個推移變"},{"start":17600.293,"end":17612.767,"text":"好,那也很感謝昨天那個徐次長代替您來這邊來跟我做一個這個拜會沒有機會跟他講到話那我在這邊有一些這個想法想跟您這邊做個溝通"},{"start":17614.776,"end":17642.952,"text":"剛才您在您的業務報告裡面不離會同仁確實是有做一個整理難怪他們真的跟你拍手我相信他們應該跟你有一些對話然後做了一些整理那把過往的一些業務確實依照您幾個點做了一些呃呈現那也比較可惜3跟4沒有機會講得太多那我一直很期待能夠再繼續聽但是您剛才講到的部分你很期待一個人的思想文化能夠被呈現"},{"start":17644.392,"end":17669.687,"text":"我相信每一個人都是一個靈魂的個體很多靈魂的個體他或許會造就一個時代會造就一些趨勢那如果文化部就像您所講的是一個藝術文化創作者的平台那我相信那應該是文化部未來非常好的一個定位所以我們在媒體上有看到在您這邊講對文化部未來的一個做法跟想法"},{"start":17670.347,"end":17685.51,"text":"那但是過去的文化部門都讓我們一直感覺到而且監察院這邊有提到好像感覺是壟斷浪費然後戰地為王的小圈圈那在這幾年很多人的感覺啦都有點像政治文化的一個"},{"start":17686.511,"end":17707.222,"text":"我不要說操作啦就是每個人都對自己成長的經驗期待分享給別人但是如果分享的比較讓別人有壓力的話確實他也不是大家之福所以政治是眾人之事那兩個人或幾個人就會產生一些政治行為所以一群人可能就會影響到很多人的生活文化"},{"start":17707.762,"end":17731.522,"text":"所以我想我們的政治文化已經在這幾年陽明國際我想不用多說了那我想剛才很多的委員在這邊執行我想政治文化不見得是你未來的一個重點就我們是藝術人的一個內容專業上我們都期待可以讓我們個體的靈魂有所展現那讓我有一點能夠自我發展的空間那我們也不要擠壓別人要跟我們"},{"start":17732.102,"end":17732.342,"text":"獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":17758.473,"end":17785.981,"text":"藝術藝術藝術藝術藝術藝術"},{"start":17786.101,"end":17790.504,"text":"我非常認同您這件事因為我曾經看過一部電影讓我嚇一跳就是說這是某個城市的電影節"},{"start":17808.436,"end":17829.327,"text":"然後我一進入到這個電影院應該是晚上7點然後出來的時候12點多然後我在看的時候我只覺得好像時間有一點點長但是我竟然坐在那裏面就把它看完了出來發現啊清晨了那就是拉斯蒙提爾克Dogma95的一個經典的那個創作者那這部片子叫音樂風雲有機會希望能夠跟您在這邊再做個討論那如果有機會的話那這個是content的部分"},{"start":17837.072,"end":17865.31,"text":"所以我也期待您未來不是只有我相信應該不會只是一個歌功頌德的主管我們期待您在未來有很多的作為這樣來講我們講各個年齡世代我剛才也有委員講到說我們希望在文化上有一些出口但是這個出口如果擠壓到不同的世代我想不管你是年輕人不管你是壯世代你都會希望吶喊所以不好意思好大聲"},{"start":17867.311,"end":17891.958,"text":"所以在這個部分期待您可以做到世代的一個交流而不是世代的對立剛才有委員這邊提到那尹志明的部分跟剛才很多您對外省人也有一些看法但是這個詞我或許不太認同但是我也有一些想法但是您的想法跟我還蠻接近的就時間上來講那來的時間上不一樣那選項上可能也有一些不同只是有一點有可能要"},{"start":17892.998,"end":17904.865,"text":"之後想要跟您請教或者您今天可以回應喔您都希望在歷史文化上能夠有一些更重視那我想請教一下那您的歷史文化包含了史前還是台灣的史前還是台灣的歷史"},{"start":17906.502,"end":17926.53,"text":"我的那個歷史觀非常簡單曾經發生在這個島上的所有東西都是我們的歷史而且不應該互相排斥好的謝謝那我相信在原住民的這個部分剛才好多個委員都這樣講了那我自我介紹一下我是國民黨不分區的委員林倩琦那麼我本身也具有原住民的血緣我是原住民阿美族的"},{"start":17927.21,"end":17945.428,"text":"好所以在幾件事情我這邊來給您做一個建議然後也請部裡面一起做個處理第一個文化奧運那上次次長這邊王次長這邊有回應我就是在文化奧運裡面有一些原住民的團體同樣的原住民的團體大家找了很多年輕的特殊的"},{"start":17946.069,"end":17946.149,"text":"獲得獎金"},{"start":17962.759,"end":17989.63,"text":"然後第624我這邊幫剛才克森委員這邊講一下他剛才問您的這個部分是他說他沒有問您內容他要問您標案那在行政上那這個標案你們可能有一個標案可以去討論一下就是說在剛才我們談到很多限制性招標在藝術文化上常用但是有一個標案也就是去處理大家的住宿跟旅遊我相信這個部分有很多人是可以做的但是這個你們也用限制性招標"},{"start":17990.57,"end":18018.866,"text":"第三個剛才聽到業務水下考古不好意思本人是你們剛開始做水下考古訓練的這個受訓的成員但是你們當時開出來的條件我也不知道文化界有幾個人可以有我是因為正好有這個潛水執照然後又在文化界有做事然後我就去參與這個活動然後受訓完之後才發現你們大概有兩個系統然後大概中國的你們用了一些因為很多沉船那我在學潛水的時候老師叫我勾最喜歡哪一項我就勾沉船的挖寶"},{"start":18020.387,"end":18036.801,"text":"所以這個水下考古我不知道這幾年的一個狀況是如何但是第一那個條件太嚴苛了然後你叫文化人怎麼去做這件事你可以讓他參與然後再教他潛水你要他有潛水的資格然後這個可以考量一下那這個兒童未來館剛才蘇巧慧委員這邊有提了"},{"start":18040.283,"end":18044.908,"text":"本席從民國90幾年就找到那一個區塊去當委員然後得到當新北市文化局長的時候還在講那一塊當時是大都會劇院到現在又變成兒童館了不管你們的定位是什麼可不可以把它做好了再來校外教學的一個文化體驗"},{"start":18064.425,"end":18089.139,"text":"剛才您這邊部裡面也說希望在偏鄉的部分能夠去實踐那我這邊提醒原住民的55個原鄉請在比較首要的順位那真的偏鄉啊遠鄉那當然是部裡面可能要注意一下什麼台南的南西啊或者是嘉義的那個內湖啊這些真的是很遠的聽起來雖然現在很多地方都叫做市或縣但是這確實是大家在"},{"start":18091.3,"end":18107.166,"text":"您在這個文化體驗上我很期待能夠好好的排好那這個族群文化的這個部分剛剛您的回應也很好那我只請您在史前跟歷史的部分做一個確認那本席因為經常去走動就跟您一樣那個很高興你也是千里步道的這個發起人"},{"start":18108.706,"end":18135.835,"text":"本席也實在是在國外走了幾千里那正好之前在院的一個質詢上委提出了台灣長步道的一個政策那我想我們很可以來對這個部分就這個部分來好好的有一些對話然後最後呢我想這個我們的政治文化可以引起我們很多的思考那剛才這個有一些委員也提到那大家都用非常簡單的這個講法說對立啊什麼一堆這種很簡單的這個"},{"start":18137.575,"end":18158.755,"text":"此語但是呢就像百分之一的人影響了很大一部分的文化所以我最後一句話就是每個人都是獨特的個體擁有獨特的靈魂那我們做公共事務的是尊重每個人來用他不同的方式來表達但是我們不應該把別人抓進我們自己要表達的方式那他會成為另外一種狀況"},{"start":18161.98,"end":18179.045,"text":"一句話啦就是不要用自卑來成就自信然後也不要用暴力來達到自利那最後我們用這個文化學者李益元的一個論述李益元不好意思李益元的學者往下最後一張對文化學者"},{"start":18184.862,"end":18198.614,"text":"對自然的恐懼我們產生了物質文化對社會的恐懼對他們的恐懼我們產生了社會文化對自己的恐懼產生了精神文化我相信我們的政治文化讓我們看到了這一些那我們在怕什麼?有些東西留下來我們在怕什麼?你可以接受很多人的詮釋我們不一定只要用語言"},{"start":18208.317,"end":18213.564,"text":"for最低道德標準的法律來談所有的文化現象謝謝部長我用阿美族一句話加油"},{"start":18224.862,"end":18241.902,"text":"致謝林倩琦委員．部長請回．我們接下來請何新淳．何新淳．何新淳委員不在．我們請蔡易瑜．蔡易瑜．蔡易瑜委員不在．接下來請黃珊珊．黃珊珊．黃珊珊．黃珊珊委員不在．"},{"start":18243.649,"end":18262.387,"text":"今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢另外有陳冠廷委員林楚一委員提出書面質詢關於今天的會議作如下決定報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢及相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報"},{"start":18263.308,"end":18276.554,"text":"對於委員質詢．要求相關提供相關資料及未及答覆的部分．其相關機關競速以書面答覆報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在休息謝謝各位"},{"start":18283.558,"end":18306.254,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":18314.511,"end":18316.752,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":18347.152,"end":18347.172,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":18357.932,"end":18360.935,"text":"委員會主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}