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凍結是18億那可能會影響的勞工相關權益是什麼"},{"start":118.694,"end":144.724,"text":"我們現在看到幾個部分第一個部分是其實因為一般行政的費用其實都被做了刪除所以其實整個部內的運作因為一般行政的費用包括刪除包括凍結都有所以如果沒有辦法快速的解凍的話其實已經會影響到部內的整體的行政的運作包括水電等等等的都在下半年可能都會受到影響這是第一個第二個其實"},{"start":146.505,"end":151.419,"text":"包括我們剛才講到像我們剛才就業平等的這個相關的業務因為被刪了800動了"},{"start":154.228,"end":176.601,"text":"將近2000所以剛剛像講到像產檢價賠產檢價的相關的這些補助其實都會受到影響那也包括我們其實對於一些地方政府的就業中心就業服務佔據點其實我們透過業務費的方式做一些會做一些薪資上面的補助那這部分也因為"},{"start":178.482,"end":197.696,"text":"業務費被刪跟動所以這些救福人員的薪資的發放也會受到影響這都影響到一般勞動的權益你們現在在地方除了勞動部自己的就業服務站以外你們還有對各縣市政府跟鄉鎮市都有提供補助就業的"},{"start":199.477,"end":226.857,"text":"就人員的薪資補助這部分也會被影響我想勞動部這邊也沒有什麼可以因應的唯一的方式就是盡可能的向委員做溝通希望該解凍的可以盡早解凍會不會影響到基金的撥補"},{"start":228.581,"end":254.19,"text":"因為我們已經連續好幾年老保基金有做政府有做撥補嗎基金的撥補的部分比較是針對就是說財化法在去年12月通過後如果這個新的財化法要實施的話因為中央會被這個有3700多億那這個經費會移到地方去所以可能會有這些非法訂"},{"start":255.59,"end":282.797,"text":"推法令義務的支出在未來的預算編列上面就會受到影響那撥補當然就是其中的可能會受到影響的項目好所以不然我先說我在去年其實我有提過老保條例的修正案我當初是把撥補直接入法"},{"start":284.755,"end":308.104,"text":"就是基金的來源政府的撥補算是法定的收入來源可是後來因為行政部門有意見所以這個案我就把它撤掉了我現在重新問一次假如再提版本把政府撥補"},{"start":309.856,"end":324.792,"text":"當作當作勞保基金的收入收入的來源入法啦就是把它明定在法律部長是贊成的還是反對的這部分我們尊重委員的提案然後我們願意跟委員來做討論因為我覺得"},{"start":329.161,"end":358.784,"text":"老闆每年這樣子在政府透過這麼龐大的金額在撥補都已經搖搖欲墜了假如說在因為財化法的修正會受到撥補金額會受到影響因為他法定支出跟非法定支出還是有差別的當然啦假如說是法定支出也可以"},{"start":360.975,"end":380.615,"text":"後來由地方來因為錢到地方了嘛可能中央還是有一些中央原本負責的事項必須要由地方來負責這個才合理啦這個後續應該財化法假如現在富裕案也已經"},{"start":383.393,"end":408.97,"text":"被否決了後續假如說法律確定了以後錢跟權責總是必須要一致嘛不太可能說把錢給地方然後事情還是由中央來做所以就是說假如再重新提案"},{"start":411.69,"end":425.756,"text":"政府撥補當作當作勞保基金的法定收入部長應該是肯定的我們覺得我剛才說尊重委員提案然後我們願意來跟委員這邊來討論部長我再問就是這個禮拜"},{"start":434.831,"end":450.238,"text":"內政委員會也已經在討論國定假日那我覺得這個的起由大概都是因為勞工這七天假引發出來的"},{"start":452.34,"end":478.707,"text":"那台灣的工時其實相對於日本韓國大概也都比較高啦時間的關係所以我簡單講就是說假如因為勞基法有規定特休假假如我們是透過提高特休假來增加勞工的"},{"start":480.677,"end":496.024,"text":"的休假日而不是全國統一因為特休假有幾個好處就是第一勞工可以提高第一可以降低工時第二勞工可以自己選擇什麼時候要休"},{"start":499.4,"end":512.691,"text":"第三因為不是一致性的修所以對企業的運作比較小對於經濟的阻礙也比較小這個部長這麼贊成"},{"start":519.352,"end":537.57,"text":"以我們當然贊成我們當然不是從勞動部的角度我們當然會在這個降低工時的角度來去思考這種可能的狀況那針對當然特休的特休假的議題是會有一些討論那我們願意來聽大家的聲音但是因為確實特休假要"},{"start":540.473,"end":566.535,"text":"要調整的話這涉及到要修法啦所以這個我的意思就是說假如說現在我們在討論國定假日最主要的起源是來自是來自砍勞工原本的那這七天假才有那麼多委員提出國定假日的修法版本那是不是是不是從勞基法來修"},{"start":568.7,"end":593.258,"text":"提高特休假的天數這個對於整體國家的衝擊比較小這個會是社會討論的我們聽到各方討論的想法之一那我說因為這一波大家在討論國定假日的議題其實從勞動部的角度當然我們也覺得我們願意來正向的來參與這個事情的討論沒有我現在"},{"start":597.369,"end":618.881,"text":"不然我這樣子問就是說你覺得直接用國定假日還給勞工這7天假的方式比較好還是我們單純7歐勞基法然後來提高特休假一樣想辦法把這7天補回去"},{"start":624.31,"end":629.659,"text":"這兩個途徑部長比較支持哪一個我都不會為難你啦"},{"start":633.206,"end":660.734,"text":"我認為這些做法當然大家現在討論我們都在聽大家的聲音好啦那我還是必須要做個結論啦我覺得從特休假來做處理會是對國家社會經濟衝擊最小然後同時又可以讓勞工自己選擇他要的假日然後企業也不會因為放假所以停擺"},{"start":661.574,"end":670.509,"text":"所以我覺得我還是主張修勞基法提供給部長當作參考謝謝主席 謝謝部長"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1080,"blocks":[["楊委員曜：（12時11分）謝謝主席，請一下洪部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["洪部長申翰：楊委員好。"],["楊委員曜：部長好。我還是要先就年度預算讓部長做個說明，也跟廣大的勞工朋友講講看，到底這一次立法院通過的預算會造成勞動部在推動各項勞工政策時有什麼窒礙難行之處。你們現在估出來的被刪減跟凍結的預算金額大概多少？"],["洪部長申翰：就公務預算的部分，總共被刪減了大概8,000萬元，未含通案刪減，就個案刪減的部分大概是8,000萬元。"],["楊委員曜：統刪是3%？"],["洪部長申翰：業務費是統刪30%？是統凍30%吧？就是不含統凍或統刪的部分，總共刪了8,000萬元，凍結18億元。"],["楊委員曜：刪了這些預算，可能會影響的勞工相關權益是什麼？"],["洪部長申翰：我們現在看到幾個部分，第一個部分是因為一般行政的費用，包括刪除、凍結都有，如果沒有辦法快速解凍的話，其實已經會影響到部內整體行政的運作，包括水電等等在下半年可能都會受到影響，這是第一個。第二個是包括我們剛才講的像就業平等相關業務，因為被刪了800萬元，凍了將近2,000萬元，所以如產檢假、陪產檢假這些相關補助，其實都會受到影響；那也包括我們對於一些地方政府就業中心、就業服務站據點，其實我們透過業務費的方式會做一些薪資上面的補助，這部分也因為業務費被刪跟凍，所以這些就服人員薪資的發放也會受到影響，這都影響到一般勞工的權益。"],["楊委員曜：在地方，除了勞動部自己的就業服務站以外，你們還有對各縣市政府跟鄉鎮市就業服務人員的薪資提供補助？"],["洪部長申翰：對，就是對人員的薪資補助。"],["楊委員曜：這部分也會被影響？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["楊委員曜：我想勞動部這邊也沒有什麼可以因應的，唯一的方式就是盡可能的跟委員溝通，希望該解凍的可以儘早解凍。會不會影響到基金的撥補？因為政府已經連續好幾年都對勞保基金撥補。"],["洪部長申翰：基金撥補的部分，財劃法在去年12月修正通過，如果這個新的財劃法要實施的話，因為中央有3,700多億經費會移到地方去，所以可能會有這些非法定義務的支出，在未來的預算編列上面就會受到影響，撥補當然就是其中可能會受到影響的項目。"],["楊委員曜：我要先說明，去年其實我有提過勞保條例的修正案，當初是修正為把撥補直接入法，就是把政府撥補算是基金的法定收入來源，可是後來因為行政部門有意見，所以我就把這個案子撤掉了。現在我重新問一次，假如再提版本，把政府撥補當作勞保基金的收入來源並入法，就是把它明定在法律內，部長是贊成還是反對？"],["洪部長申翰：對此，我們尊重委員的提案，也願意跟委員討論。"],["楊委員曜：因為我覺得政府每年這樣子透過這麼龐大的金額撥補，勞保都已經搖搖欲墜了，假如再因為財劃法的修正，使撥補金額受到影響……因為法定支出跟非法定支出還是有差別的，當然假如說是法定支出，也可以劃由地方來支出，因為錢到地方了嘛！有一些中央原本負責的事項可能必須要由地方來負責，這個才合理。財劃法覆議案現在已經被否決了，假如法律確定了以後，錢跟權責總是必須要一致，不太可能把錢給地方然後事情還是由中央來做，因此若再重新提案，把政府撥補當作勞保基金的法定收入，部長應該是肯定的？"],["洪部長申翰：我剛剛說過我們尊重委員提案，願意跟委員討論。"],["楊委員曜：部長，我再問一個問題，這個禮拜內政委員會已經在討論國定假日，我覺得這個的起由大概都是因為勞工這7天假引發出來的，其實臺灣的工時相對於日本、韓國大概都比較高。限於發言時間，所以我簡單的講。因為勞基法有規定特休假，假如我們是透過提高特休假來增加勞工的休假日，而不是全國統一呢？因為提高勞工特休假有幾個好處：第一、可以降低工時；第二、勞工可以自己選擇什麼時候要休；第三、因為不是一致性的休，所以對企業運作的影響比較小，對於經濟的阻礙也比較小。這個部長贊不贊成？"],["洪部長申翰：我們當然贊成，從勞動部的角度，我們當然會從降低工時的角度思考各種可能的狀況。針對特休假的議題，社會也有一些討論，我們願意來聽大家的聲音，但是特休假要調整的話，確實涉及到修法。"],["楊委員曜：我的意思是說，假如現在我們討論國定假日最主要的起源是來自砍了勞工原本的這7天假，以致有那麼多委員提出國定假日的修法版本，那是不是可從修正勞基法，提高特休假天數著手？這個對國家整體的衝擊比較小。"],["洪部長申翰：這個是社會各方討論時我們聽到的想法之一，這波大家在討論國定假日的議題，其實從勞動部的角度，當然我們也願意正向參與這個事情的討論。"],["楊委員曜：部長，我這樣子問好了，你覺得直接用國定假日還給勞工這7天假的方式比較好，還是我們單純去修正勞基法來提高特休假，一樣想辦法把這7天補回去比較好？對這兩個途徑，部長比較支持哪一個？我都不會為難你啦！"],["洪部長申翰：這些作法當然大家現在都在討論，我們多來聽大家的聲音。"],["楊委員曜：我還是必須要做個結論，我覺得從特休假來處理，會是對國家、社會、經濟衝擊最小的，同時又可以讓勞工自己選擇他要的假日，企業也不會因為放假而停擺，所以我還是主張修正勞基法，提供給部長當作參考。謝謝主席！謝謝部長！"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝！"],["主席：接下來請高金素梅委員來做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":536,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-3","speakers":["劉建國","黃國昌","陳菁徽","林月琴","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王育敏","盧縣一","王正旭","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳培瑜","楊曜","高金素梅","陳昭姿","牛煦庭","張雅琳","黃捷","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","徐欣瑩","陳瑩"],"page_start":285,"meetingDate":["2025-03-19"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理113年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算決議有關勞動部預算凍結報告案 19案；二、邀請\n勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預\n算關於勞動部主管部分","agenda_id":"1142901_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}