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上次那個是台北國稅局辦的那上次那個也是因為重複都是幾個人對不對那後來查的結果是因為我上次有請那個部長你們要查清楚嘛對不對你們要查出來你們說沒有法律上的問題可是你們又罰了那個承包的廠商"},{"start":203.407,"end":218.301,"text":"跟委員逐一逐一的說明台北國稅局在去年辦的雲端種樹區這個部分我們第一個就是已經清查過了跟我們國稅局跟財政部所屬的所有同仁"},{"start":218.921,"end":245.647,"text":"以及三星等以內我們都查過都沒有關聯這些中獎都沒有關聯連廠商的相關的廠商也都沒有關聯都沒有內部的人第二個我們也了解原因在哪裡是因為他在這個城市裡面把權重做了一些不合一些調整以至於有一些結果增高他的中獎率設計本身就有問題這個設計當然可能超出一般的通常是就是說我如果丟很多大小我機率提高而不能夠去調整權重一個這樣跟一般的常識不一樣"},{"start":247.327,"end":275.995,"text":"那這個部分呢我們已經處理第一個就是說我們送檢調去查送調查局去查那他調查局初步查他已經查完以後覺得沒有不法沒有不法但是我們對於廠商呢依然請求民事的賠償現在在民事上面我們會去追溯他這個部分因為這個確實對於財政部也好國稅局也好都造成一些大家的一些信用上的一些損害這個部分我們已經向民事提起求償了"},{"start":276.975,"end":296.573,"text":"這個部分我們一定在做,而未來呢,我們對作為這種所謂的網路抽獎要特別謹慎,有想像高雄市追尋處這個事情就是被人家用,就是您講的科技的進步他用某種方式來突破你的某些點而造成一些不公平,以及社會認為對於政府的一個形象的破壞,就是不能反反身對,對,對"},{"start":302.475,"end":322.644,"text":"前面去清查然後去建立一個標準的晝夜程序出來嗎標準SOP要不然的話你看你高雄這個事情後來就罰了廠商那可是現在人民看到是什麼你的設計明明就是有問題嘛對不對你去加權所以導致了不公平嘛現在就是政府我今天的訴求有兩個啦有兩個事實上也是全民的訴求第一個"},{"start":323.644,"end":349.751,"text":"政府辦的 特別是財政部辦的一定是要公平不要變成是一個不公平的抽獎好不好是的 一定是公平公開對 第二個更重要的 副院長剛才說的前面去清查然後以後要建立一個機制出來一定要落實是公平的好不好是的 是的我再問一個民眾很關心的問題最近你們做了一個新的規定你們說以後如果出國去買到山寨版"},{"start":351.109,"end":377.027,"text":"山寨板小額免罰這個規定六月開始就要取消了以前說小額不罰嘛對不對現在不只要沒入喔就是說你如果買到山寨板你被我查到了不只沒收要罰三倍的這個價錢當然要打擊這個山寨板這個我們是肯定的可是現在碰到兩個大問題第一 民眾就反映啊買的時候我怎麼知道是真的假的對不對然後第二個他們也挑戰你們啊否定"},{"start":381.311,"end":386.397,"text":"你們的海關你們有辦法去檢測那個東西是真的還是假的嗎?有沒有辦法做到嗎?"},{"start":398.752,"end":416.083,"text":"對一般的旅客絕對跟沒有影響跟以往都一樣那海關的確沒有辦法判定他是不是反冒品所以我們會請權利人來做鑑定那權利人不來主張的話等於是放棄他的權利權利人主張確定那是反冒品的海關才會處理"},{"start":418.345,"end":445.752,"text":"所以權利人的說我如果去買那個精品就是精品店精品的這個廠商他們本身要鑑定就對了對好OK好謝謝請另外很多人問到的就是請問很多人到日本去藥妝店買東西嘛對不對是那那個不在這次的這個範圍裡面對不對沒有小沒有沒有這個範圍那不是仿冒品我去買了很多東西你們不會這個所以藥妝沒有問題藥妝我們這個規定是仿冒品那藥妝店的如果是正品"},{"start":447.524,"end":462.941,"text":"證品的話是沒有問題不會有這個問題最後做一個建議好不好因為很多人去買當然他如果去買山寨品本來就應該要被罰錢要沒入啦可是如果他能他不是故意的你如果去買的時候我認為他是真的嘛對不對"},{"start":464.042,"end":480.282,"text":"那我如果能夠提出一個證明譬如說不管是我的發票或者是我的這個刷卡那確實是跟真品的價格一樣這個可不可以就不要罰包委我們現在旅客的部分依照海關氣勢條例39條的規定就只有末日而已他不會處罰"},{"start":481.824,"end":491.153,"text":"就是還是要默住,然後就不會罰就對了只要他有證明,證明他確實是有付的,用申請的價格去的話,就不會再罰錢?不會不會好,謝謝謝謝齊凱"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1060,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（11時56分）請部長。"],["主席：我們請莊部長。"],["張委員啓楷：謝謝主席。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，昨天晚上很多人在討論這一則新聞，說你們高雄國稅局辦了一個稅務突擊隊，結果中獎的很多都是姓彭，在網路上很多朋友戲稱都是彭家軍，結果檢調進去追、檢調進去查，後來發現是有個陳姓的被告用遊戲系統的漏洞，他建立了很多帳號，所以他連線59萬次，導致你們52個獎項裡面，他拿走了44個，最近這幾天，檢調用妨害電腦使用罪起訴他，今天我們討論財政部辦的抽獎，一定都要有公信力，對不對？一定是公平的，去年雲端發票的事情已經引起很多討論，為什麼又發生這樣的事情？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，您剛剛所提的「彭家軍」這個事情，並不是高雄國稅局辦的，而是高雄市稅捐稽徵處辦的。"],["張委員啓楷：是稅捐稽徵處？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，不是高雄國稅局辦的。"],["張委員啓楷：稅捐稽徵處辦的？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，不是高雄國稅局，也不是財政部。"],["張委員啓楷：後來你們有去了解到底為什麼會出現這樣的問題？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們大概有初步了解，也就是跟委員剛剛所講的，第一，就是他的通關遊戲有一些駭客入侵，我昨天看到大概也是駭客入侵，造成重複中獎，最後獎項重複的部分並沒有發放，然後高雄市稅捐處也會向廠商求償。"],["張委員啓楷：現在最大問題有兩個，第一個，當然大家對政府有信心，如果是政府辦的，應該是公平，結果現在發現它是不公平的。第二個，科技一直在進步，不管他是不是作弊，看起來是被攻破，或者他用他的方式造成不公平的機率越來越大，其實不只這個案子，去年雲端發票也是，雲端發票是臺北國稅局辦的，對不對？沒有錯吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，沒有錯，上次那個是臺北國稅局辦的。"],["張委員啓楷：上次那個也都是重複的幾個人，對不對？我上次有請部長查清楚，後來你們查出來說沒有法律上的問題，可是又罰了那個承包廠商。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員逐一說明，臺北國稅局去年辦的雲端種樹趣活動，第一，我們已經清查過了，國稅局、財政部所屬的所有同仁及三親等以內親屬，我們都查過，跟這些中獎都沒有關聯，連相關的廠商也都沒有關聯，都沒有內部的人。第二，我們也去了解原因，是因為他在程式裡把權重做了一些調整，以至於增高了他的中獎率……"],["張委員啓楷：那這個設計本身就有問題？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，這個設計可能超出一般的通常作法，就是如果我丟很多發票，機率就提高，而不能調整權重，這跟一般的常識不一樣。針對這個部分我們已經處理了，第一，送調查局調查，調查局初步查完後覺得沒有不法，但是我們依然對廠商請求民事賠償，就是我們會去追訴他的民事責任，因為確實已經對財政部及國稅局造成一些信用上的損害，所以我們已經提起民事求償了。未來，對於這種所謂的網路抽獎我們會特別謹慎，尤其像高雄市稅捐處的這個活動，就是被人家運用、利用委員剛剛講的科技方式予以突破，因而造成不公平，以及政府形象的破壞，這是不容再發生的。"],["張委員啓楷：法網恢恢，疏而不漏嘛！對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["張委員啓楷：你現在說要謹慎，那要怎麼做？本席認為，應該要全面清查，建立標準作業程序，有一個標準、SOP，要不然你看，高雄事情雖然後來罰了廠商，可是現在人民看到的是什麼？就是你的設計明明就有問題，對不對？你去加權，所以導致不公平嘛！我今天的訴求有兩個，事實上也是全民的訴求，第一個，政府辦的抽獎活動，特別是財政部，一定要公平，不要變成是一個不公平的抽獎，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的，一定是公平、公開。"],["張委員啓楷：第二個更重要，就是部長剛才說的，全面清查，然後建立一套機制出來，一定要落實是公平的，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的，是的。"],["張委員啓楷：好，我再問一個民眾很關心的問題，最近你們有一個新規定，就是出國誤買山寨版，小額免罰的規定將在6月開始取消，以前是小額不罰，對不對？現在是如果買到山寨版被你們查到了，不只沒收，還要罰三倍的價錢。當然打擊山寨版我們予以肯定，可是現在民眾反映會碰到兩個大問題，第一個，買的時候怎麼知道是真是假？第二個，民眾也挑戰你們，質疑你們的海關有辦法檢測那個東西是真還是假嗎？有辦法做到嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我請關務署署長跟您說明，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：主席已經站起來了，我們儘快在2分鐘內完成，好不好？給我2分鐘，謝謝主席。"],["彭署長英偉：對一般旅客來講，絕對沒有影響，跟以往都一樣，海關的確沒有辦法判定它是不是仿冒品，所以我們會請權利人來鑑定，如果權利人不來主張，等於是放棄他的權利，權利人主張確定那是仿冒品，海關才會處理。"],["張委員啓楷：所謂權利人，譬如我去買一個精品，那就是精品的廠商本身要去鑑定？"],["彭署長英偉：對。"],["張委員啓楷：好，OK。另外也有很多人問到，到日本藥妝店買東西，那部分不在這次的範圍裡面，對不對？"],["彭署長英偉：那不是仿冒品，沒有問題。"],["張委員啓楷：我去買了很多東西，所以藥妝沒有問題？"],["彭署長英偉：我們這個規定是針對仿冒品，藥妝店的如果是正品，就沒有問題。"],["張委員啓楷：不會有這個問題？"],["彭署長英偉：不會。"],["張委員啓楷：好，最後做一個建議，因為出國很多人會買東西，當然如果他去買山寨品，本來就應該被罰錢，沒入商品，可是如果他不是故意的，也就是買的時候認為是真的，如果他能夠提出證明，不管是發票或者刷卡紀錄，確實跟真品價格一樣，這個可不可以就不要罰？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，旅客的部分，依照海關緝私條例第三十九條規定，都只有沒入而已，不會處罰，不會罰款。"],["張委員啓楷：就是還是要沒入，但不會罰就對了？"],["彭署長英偉：是。"],["張委員啓楷：只要他有證明，證明他確實是付了真品的價格……"],["彭署長英偉：沒問題，沒問題。"],["張委員啓楷：就不會再罰錢？"],["彭署長英偉：不會，不會。"],["張委員啓楷：好，謝謝。"],["主席（賴委員惠員）：好，謝謝啓楷。","接著請李彥秀委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":564,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-3","speakers":["賴惠員","吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","郭國文","林思銘","鍾佳濱","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","楊瓊瓔","李坤城","羅明才","張啓楷","李彥秀","王世堅","陳玉珍","洪孟楷","邱志偉","陳培瑜","葉元之","陳冠廷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1143001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143001_00002","1143001_00003","1143001_00004","1143001_00005","1143001_00006","1143001_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理（含各轉投資事業機構公\n股代表之董、監事）列席業務報告，並備質詢；二、審查行政院函請審議「海關進口稅則部分稅\n則修正草案」案；三、彙總整理提出「中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業及\n非營業部分審查總報告草案」提報院會案","agenda_id":"1143001_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}