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案。"},{"start":1801.479,"end":1805.539,"text":"好,我們現在開會,請組密報告出席人數。"},{"start":1807.077,"end":1820.85,"text":"報告全體會出席委員十一人以足法定人數。好,我們現在開會進行報告事項,請宣讀上次會議事錄。立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議議事錄,時間113年5月23日星期四,9時至11時31分,地點紅樓101會議室,出席委員、邱議員委員等14人。"},{"start":1832.381,"end":1851.81,"text":"草案、列席委員葛如荊委員等13人、列席委員、公平會主委李美季相關人員、衛福部、勞動部、經濟部、行政院消保處、訴發部、法務部等單位代表及相關人員、主席、邱昭吉委員、議員報告事項依宣讀上次會議事務決定確定。"},{"start":1852.85,"end":1865.749,"text":"二、邀請公平交易委員會主任委員就外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序認定原則及對消費者權益影響之配套措施進行報告並被質詢。"},{"start":1867.725,"end":1886.1,"text":"報告事項與討論事項合併尋答委員楊瓊英說明提案要旨公民會主委李美報告後委員邱盈盈等17人提出質詢均由公民會李主委、消保處中處長、勞動部勞動司許專委及相關人集席答覆決定一、登記發言委員處不在場者會區域經營發言完畢尋答結束二、"},{"start":1888.402,"end":1905.86,"text":"委員林黛樺、陳冠廷及陳超明所提書面質詢日入記錄刊登公報。書面質詢和未及答覆部分檢証會單日一週內。書面答覆並複製本會。討論事項審查一、本院委員邱志偉等人擬具《多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":1906.4,"end":1934.76,"text":"二、本院委員楊求英等人擬具多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。決議一、第十三條照委員邱志偉等人及委員楊求英等人提案通過。二、併案審查文具擬具審查報告提報院會討論不需交由黨團協商並推請邱昭及委員議員院會討論時作補充說明。主席宣告通過此條文相對法制用與授權主席及議事人員整理。散會宣讀完畢。"},{"start":1941.073,"end":1947.483,"text":"請問各位同仁,上次的會議意思錄有錯誤化解?沒有好,那我們意思錄確認我們繼續進行討論事項,請宣讀"},{"start":1952.369,"end":1979.914,"text":"草案案：繼續審查：一、本院委員黃仁等18人擬具〈離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案〉二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具〈離島建設條例第三條、第七條及第七條之一條文修正草案案〉三、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具〈離島建設條例第五條條文修正草案案〉四、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具〈離島建設條例第十條條文修正草案案〉五、本院委員蔡宇等18人擬具〈離島建設條例第十條之一條文修正草案案〉今日處理宣�"},{"start":1982.162,"end":1997.535,"text":"好,那我們本日議程所列的討論事項離島建設條例部分條文修正草案我們總共有五個版本那麼委員會已經在5月16號巡打結束我們現在要進行廣泛討論"},{"start":1999.837,"end":2013.626,"text":"關於討論,沒有人登記。我們請議事人員宣讀所有的條文,如果有宣稱動議及附帶決議,請一併宣讀。宣讀完畢之後,我們再行協商,請宣讀。"},{"start":2018.427,"end":2037.572,"text":"委員黃仁等人提案第十三條除第二項修正為65歲以上及年滿55歲具原住民身份之離島地區居民、全民健康保險保險對象應自付之保險費由中央政府編列預算支應其餘同性刑法條文"},{"start":2038.152,"end":2062.311,"text":"委員陳玉珍等人提案第三條本條例所稱重大建設投資計劃,細指經中央目的事業主管機關、政策上輔導之建設、縣市綜合發展計劃及離島綜合建設實施方案所列之計劃、縣市主管機關認定之重要產業投資或交由民間機構辦理之公共建設之計劃。"},{"start":2063.652,"end":2086.958,"text":"第五條、第一項第一款至第十款同縣刑法條文、第十一款修正為消防建設、第十二款由縣刑法第十一款移列、第十三款修正為災害防救、殯葬設施及濫葬行為之改善、第十四款至第十六款由縣刑法第十三款至第十五款避役。"},{"start":2088.697,"end":2102.455,"text":"第七條為鼓勵離島產業發展經中央目的事業主管機關或縣市主管機關認定為重大建設投資計畫者其土地使用變更審議程序自申請人"},{"start":2103.677,"end":2124.865,"text":"草案．土地使用分區或用地變更完成審查,以不超過一年為限,前向重大建設投資計劃之核定,屬中央目的事業主管機關政策上輔導之建設者,由離島建設指導委員會擬定,報請行政院核定之,屬縣市綜合發展計劃。"},{"start":2128.143,"end":2156.732,"text":"離島綜合建設實施方案所列之計劃及縣市主管機關政策上推動或輔導之建設者由縣市政府令定之重大建設投資計劃其都市計劃主要計劃非都市土地使用變更及國家公園主要計劃由縣市政府核定之不受都市計劃法、區域計劃法國家公園法及相關法令之限制"},{"start":2157.512,"end":2166.659,"text":"新增第七條之一為配合離島施政計劃之落實並改善居民生活品質離島地區應適時擴大都市計劃、都市計劃個案變更或都市計劃通盤檢討。」"},{"start":2173.385,"end":2192.506,"text":"涉及都市計劃農業區保護區或非都市土地並更為可建築用地者其開發之規劃及方式由縣市政府另訂之。第十條第一項末段增加其未符合免徵營業稅條件之銷售貨物或勞務之營利事業或營業人"},{"start":2196.414,"end":2225.254,"text":"自中華民國一百十三年度起至中華民國一百二十二年止營業事業所得稅依現行稅率減增百分之二十五其餘同現行法條文第一項第二項同現行法條文增列第三項前二項營業人為公用事業者其自國外進口專攻其本業及附屬業務使用之貨物或自國外購買專攻其本業及附屬業務使用之勞務"},{"start":2226.154,"end":2237.279,"text":"免徵營業稅及關稅、增滅第四項、第一項減免年限藉其前一年行政院得示實際推展情況,決定是否延長減免年限。"},{"start":2238.632,"end":2256.875,"text":"委員蔡易瑜等人提案。第十條之一,第一項墨具增加並得於臺灣本島兩地通行港口設置提貨處等文字其餘同現行法條文第一項,第二項及第三項同現行法條文,第四項末端"},{"start":2257.876,"end":2286.983,"text":"末段增加或臺灣本島提貨處者等文字其餘同現行法條文第四項、第五項同現行法條文、第六項末段增加或臺灣本島提貨處者等文字其餘同現行法條文第六項、第七項及第八項同現行法條文、第九項末具增加或臺灣本島提貨處提領等文字其餘同現行法條文第九項。委員"},{"start":2287.937,"end":2311.255,"text":"鄭天才等人所提修正動議第十三條,除第二項修正為65歲以上及年滿55歲、具原住民身份之離島地區居民、全民健康保險保險對象因自付之保險費由中央目的事業主管機關編列預算支應,其餘同線刑法條文宣讀完畢。"},{"start":2314.96,"end":2339.636,"text":"好,我們介紹今天立會的官員代表新的我們國發會新的主委劉靜清主委好,我們副主委彭麗珮主委副主委接下來我們經濟部市長胡市長接下來我們介紹財政部李政次"},{"start":2341.554,"end":2361.546,"text":"還有我們負稅署的宋署長以及公務署我們的彭署長好那接下來我們進行協商先協商離島建設條例第三條條文我們依序進行協商謝謝來"},{"start":2372.591,"end":2385.582,"text":"好,我們針對第三條的部分請行政部門來第三條沒有沒有"},{"start":2393.376,"end":2417.009,"text":"主席、各位委員大家早關於這第三條的部分我們是有一些擔心在將來該中央與地方之間的建設的不一致性所以我們的回應是不以由縣市政府進行認定這個是我們的看法好這是行政部門來來"},{"start":2423.237,"end":2450.708,"text":"再說明清楚來目前離島整個建設規劃是由中央整個規劃整體的規劃那現在這個條文是希望也把這個權力分到有地方一起來做那從本會的立場是我們是希望維持原條文來陳玉珍委員在這邊就好你坐著講一下因為你在協商請教主委今天早上金門飛機有沒有飛"},{"start":2452.968,"end":2481.243,"text":"道歉我不清楚你不知道嗎?天氣不好飛機又沒有飛不過剛剛起飛了那金門最近有什麼重大建設?我知道你也不知道在中央的官員哪幾個人真的知道金門發生什麼事情?哪裡真的知道金門需要什麼樣的重大建設?所以我們這個條文修正的目的就是在說中央的權力當然你們還是有但是如果地方可以了解可以"},{"start":2482.142,"end":2482.462,"text":"二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":2513.451,"end":2514.211,"text":"條文修正草案 案"},{"start":2532.308,"end":2549.308,"text":"連江縣政府澎湖縣政府因為我們離島三個縣市有一個離島的這個就是縣市的匯報每一年都會開一次輪流在不同的縣市開像去年是在澎湖就我們的離島的不管是縣長、議長、立委都會一起去開會當然我們以前還有"},{"start":2549.828,"end":2553.65,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":2565.715,"end":2584.521,"text":"在這個如果你們沒有辦法給我們經費的情況下那我們自己也想要招商引資當然也是很困難啦但是至少我們地方各地方政府比較了解自己的需求所以我們希望上在政策上給我們支持至少放我們一條活路啊應該這樣子講你理解嗎我說不是一句話說你們覺得不適合就不適合好謝謝那接下來我們檢態論文委員請發言"},{"start":2590.572,"end":2607.766,"text":"好 謝謝主席啦各位同仁我想離島建設條例裡面談到的重大建設投資它有一些涉及到了這個都市計畫涉及到土地取得的一些排除的規定所以這個部分其實是用重大的部分才能做這樣的處理那如果這些重大的事項"},{"start":2608.607,"end":2636.926,"text":"如果片面可以由地方政府直接來認定的話我覺得未來會造成很多的這個問題跟困擾我認為還是應該回到由中央的主管機關來做整個的處理由國發會用行政院的整個高度來看國家的各項重大建設哪些該納入那我認為這個才能夠比較妥善的一個處理那如果地方政府認為有些重大的這個建設的話也可以循程序由地方政府送上來給中央那中央"},{"start":2637.566,"end":2639.067,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案 案 案"},{"start":2664.625,"end":2668.588,"text":"陳玉珍等18人擬具陳玉珍等18人擬具陳玉珍等18人擬具陳玉珍等18人擬具陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":2691.765,"end":2719.609,"text":"審查流程還有開放限制的區位基本上都是由縣市政府來做出審然後中央目的事業主管機關來做核定那麼呢最後當然由他們做初步的處理之後最後是由行政院考量國家政策跟離島的永續發展目標來透過部會協調協商再來做一個進一步所謂的核定"},{"start":2720.53,"end":2732.543,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文"},{"start":2735.306,"end":2764.29,"text":"希望中央來做一些核定因為重大計劃還有一些法令的處理甚至還有一些所謂都市計劃變更那這個部分連同都市計劃變更也就是說如果修了這個法之後有可能未來縣市政府由離島的縣市政府他就可以處理了那他同意了重大建設都市計劃他也要求由地方政府就可以同意了哇 這個有他的危險度存在"},{"start":2764.93,"end":2787.663,"text":"所以我覺得這個一定要說清楚講明白不是現在我們的政府沒有做現在的政府就有一套的SOP對於重大建設計畫不要忘了這四個字什麼叫重大建設計畫也就是會牽扯到整個這個縣市發展甚至是國家發展的一個高度位階叫重大計畫"},{"start":2788.664,"end":2804.614,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具 «離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案案案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案案案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案﹚立法院第十三條條"},{"start":2814.64,"end":2828.162,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條及第七條之一條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條之一條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條之一條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條之一條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條之一條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條之一條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條之一條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條之一條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條之一條文修正�"},{"start":2842.705,"end":2855.478,"text":"草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文"},{"start":2864.045,"end":2865.686,"text":"條文修正草案 案 。"},{"start":2889.98,"end":2912.539,"text":"雖然台澎金馬不大但是顯然從剛才的答詢就可以知道對離島像金門、澎湖、連江顯然這個的了解或是甚至去的機會都是很少的所以在這樣的一個情形之下我們就是說國發會"},{"start":2915.791,"end":2937.613,"text":"是不是你們從這個條文陳玉珍所提的修正條文去思考怎麼樣會修得更好假設我們給地方政府三個縣政府能夠提報的機會然後你們來核定由中央來核定"},{"start":2938.268,"end":2939.59,"text":"條例第十三條提出修正的意見,能夠達到更好。」以上。"},{"start":2953.82,"end":2956.141,"text":"二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具、「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案案 案 。"},{"start":2981.385,"end":2984.007,"text":"三、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：繼續審查：繼續審查：繼續審查：繼續審查：繼續審查：繼續審查：繼續審查：繼續審查：繼續審查"},{"start":3007.126,"end":3008.367,"text":"條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":3020.595,"end":3027.685,"text":"陳玉珍等18人擬具 «離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案案 第十三條及第七條之一條文修正草案案案 第十三條"},{"start":3037.918,"end":3058.884,"text":"重大投資建設計畫：他的程序是有還是一樣由縣市政府這邊提出來出審之後會由中央目的事業主管機關這邊複合之後送到送到我們行政院的離島建設指導委員會再去做最後的討論那這個討論的好處是說有一些跨部會的事項可以在這裡做處理請問你這幾項到底現在在進行的有幾項現在目前為止"},{"start":3069.009,"end":3069.69,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":3075.979,"end":3079.142,"text":"對,哪個處?你是哪個處?經濟發展嗎?是本會國土處。國土處,就是我們離島處,國土區域離島處,黃處長。對。你這十幾項,哪幾項還在進行?跟委員報告,像金門大橋這個是已經完成了,那其他的?我剛問你是這三年,金門大橋是十幾年前的。對。"},{"start":3098.817,"end":3099.857,"text":"三、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":3123.769,"end":3143.338,"text":"所以最近的金門重大建設是十二年前的這十二年來都金門都不需要任何重大建設不要說我們有沒有我們有沒有問一下主委好不好那地方政府有沒有送什麼案子上來的要不要說明 處長說明一下啦好不好他有送過來的案子嗎我想"},{"start":3144.758,"end":3162.48,"text":"我想陳委員你提的是非常好的就是說其實離島的發展是我的工作一部分那我是比較建議的方式是不是我們可以大家來共同的合作對於你這邊有什麼樣的案子那我們來配合或者是說我們可以共同來商議如何規劃"},{"start":3163.681,"end":3164.242,"text":"三、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":3181.354,"end":3181.834,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":3198.461,"end":3198.941,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":3218.766,"end":3236.992,"text":"對這五年請問他反問嘛說這五年金門有什麼動態建設那我們反問因為這個部分我們的程序就是由地方政府送出嘛出什麼然後中央事業目的主委機關來審定行政院來考量國家的一個政策跟目標嘛"},{"start":3237.732,"end":3238.453,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":3264.494,"end":3269.217,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案．第十三條條文修正草案．第十三條條文修正草案．"},{"start":3289.162,"end":3315.257,"text":"主席還有主委還有各位同仁我想我還是建議第一我先講一下我覺得立委跟主委之間大家其實還是相互尊重我覺得態度上其實還是可以再和緩一點就是不要過於激烈的一些語言特別如果涉及到對人身我認為這樣不太好我覺得主委新上任但是我覺得對他還是有基本的尊重我還是大家互相理性的討論比較好"},{"start":3316.338,"end":3342.306,"text":"第二、這個部分我還是請國發會去整體把它整理出來好不好就是這幾年來除了當陳委員關心到的中央有同意的做的以外那另外地方政府到底各個地方政府有送上來的哪些案件也讓大家知道一下好不好就是說有沒有送那送到哪些那壞哪些有准哪些沒有准也讓大家知道一下作為一個討論修法的一個依據那我再來我還是建議這樣具有"},{"start":3344.087,"end":3348.341,"text":"大家沒有達到共識的一個條文的話我還是建議保留在委員會裡面討論,比較妥善。謝謝。"},{"start":3350.95,"end":3375.067,"text":"好,那這個第三條的部分委員已經經過二輪的討論詢問那也請國畫會這邊你們幕僚趕快去將委員所提出的待會我們最後再返回來再來處理第三條的部分本期就是希望我們在委員會要充分討論如果真的"},{"start":3377.228,"end":3394.538,"text":"沒有辦法達成共識,我們才保留送協商。」所以今天是一個很好、良善的一個討論方式。那請你們把它做公費。等一下再做決定。接下來我們針對於第五條。第五條的部分請行政部門。第五條請行政部門說明。同不同意?"},{"start":3406.991,"end":3417.88,"text":"第五條其實我們原來的第15項裡面的其他其實已經涵蓋本次修的案的內容所以基本上我們尊重委員會的決議"},{"start":3420.759,"end":3429.541,"text":"行政部門同意第五條的這個部分請問,那其他委員,那行政部門跟陳玉珍委員的提案有,都同意,那是不是我們這一條就照這個行政,照陳玉珍委員第五條修正。"},{"start":3449.893,"end":3454.678,"text":"主席主席主席主席主席主席主席"},{"start":3473.74,"end":3499.434,"text":"主席、各位委員我還是要再次提醒委員會中心主義是以委員會的發言為準委員會的委員才是核心部門的意見都是給委員參考特別是本會、本委員會、經濟委員才是具有關鍵的因素委員會中心主義的精神是這樣所以我希望大家還是再次回到我們的發言跟我們的討論其實還是要尊重"},{"start":3500.434,"end":3528.661,"text":"這個我還是要請教一下這個冰葬設施的部分跟原來沒有列上到底有什麼樣的差別就是可不可以請國發會更清楚的說明如果就新的修正條文就陳玉珍委員修正的條文跟原來現行的條文會有什麼樣的不同請國發會主委或者處長再詳細說明好不好待會一併好不好我們因為還有其他的委員接下來我們請誰邱映穎委員然後再來陳廷飛委員"},{"start":3530.592,"end":3553.898,"text":"我還是要請教一下,謝謝主席,我還是要請教一下這個現行法裡頭很多基礎的設施其實都已經包含在內了嘛那原來我們的那個離島綜合建設實施方案裡面也都有了為什麼要單獨把消防建設跟殯葬設施把它拉出來那這個你們國發會同意的理由是什麼"},{"start":3555.302,"end":3556.342,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":3581.75,"end":3609.264,"text":"還是還有其他?那如果說這樣子的話因為你其他是可以涵蓋更多那你再把它點出這兩樣那是不是我們更應該詳細討論跟國發會因為這個都是委員的版本啊行政院國發會還沒有版本啊那是不是國發會應該提出它的版本說那好如果要正面表列的話那真的是只有消防嗎那只有這個兵杖嗎一定不止啊可能還有更多啊"},{"start":3609.824,"end":3637.264,"text":"所以我覺得如果我們要正面表列的話那就乾脆我們就把這個案子保留下來好好討論等國發會把他們的版本送進來我們再來討論啊那要正面表列剛好可以好好跟我們離島的委員討論一下到底我們差了哪幾樣要正面表列的用修教育制修到好不要安利利利的讓嘛所以我認為這樣子才是互相的尊重"},{"start":3639.025,"end":3649.518,"text":"好謝謝接下來我們請鄭天才委員請發言我們這個修法或是立法是我們立法委員的職權"},{"start":3652.472,"end":3680.512,"text":"那很多的法案未必都是一定要這個行政部門的就是行政院的版本不一定要了這個是我們過去這麼多年來所通過的法例案很多都沒有行政院的甚至一個新的法案沒有行政院版本然後在立法院三度通過的也就好幾個案例了"},{"start":3681.232,"end":3704.353,"text":"那我們就以這一條條文來講這個應該就是建議大家能夠就事實面就離島第七的實際的需求來去考量我們就看這個第十二款原來的第十二款現行條文的第十二款"},{"start":3705.442,"end":3728.849,"text":"天然災害防治及濫障、濫墾、濫建之改善。」現在要陳玉珍委員把他信用核修正在第十三款災害防救、濫障設施及濫障行為之改善。所以之前的是濫障、濫墾之改善。因為這個離島建設條例"},{"start":3735.362,"end":3736.183,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案案案案"},{"start":3765.322,"end":3771.647,"text":"草案．一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案．一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案．一、"},{"start":3789.297,"end":3797.58,"text":"陳玉珍委員最後請行政部門謝謝我跟這個也跟我們委員會報告因為委員因為也不理解我剛一直強調這些意見都是三個離島縣政府所綜合開過會提出來的綜合意見"},{"start":3803.582,"end":3826.388,"text":"那我特別問金美先生說這個修改的意義在哪裡?金美先生就有回覆有特別的跟我回覆說這個如果離島建設條例沒有將消防建設列為離島綜合建設實施方案因載明之內容則各離島縣政府亦將消防建設納入離島中間計畫與法務局不容易獲准也不是不會你們事實上有給但他們希望明文化像本縣第六期12到15年離島"},{"start":3829.109,"end":3843.917,"text":"綜合建設十方就沒有消防建設項目就沒有辦法完善離島地區的消防建設所以是要確保說消防建設是列在裡頭當然有時候你們會給有時候你們不會給他們要確保那我知道你們跟我回覆說你們都會給所以他們希望把它"},{"start":3845.138,"end":3859.469,"text":"為了確保金門地區居民生命財產安全,所以希望在這一條、第五條針對消防建設項目有必要性。」這個像爭議是很小的,這個都是為了地區的消防的建設,然後居民的生命財產安全。"},{"start":3860.575,"end":3861.015,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案 案"},{"start":3895.859,"end":3896.099,"text":"草案。"},{"start":3902.17,"end":3920.477,"text":"關於我們賴委員提的就是說這幾年這個這個我們我們有什麼版本還有我們陳委員提到我先說明一下第一個是原來我的瞭解是這樣因為消防建設原來我們就很支持都有在做了那所以呢"},{"start":3921.378,"end":3947.421,"text":"當時拱竹委認為這是可以放進來的那我唯一其實我坦白講我自己覺得很奇怪的一件事是濫墾跟濫建為什麼要從這個條文拿掉那是不是我們不重視濫墾或濫建呢那我們的同仁後來跟我講說因為在第16項的其他還是就是新修法的第16項其他我們還是可以把這個行為納進來所以呢還是可以去堵掉這些的行為所以呢因為其他的解釋是比較大的那"},{"start":3948.101,"end":3971.706,"text":"那我才會剛剛才會講說其實這個條文的修改其實有其他大概都可以涵蓋所以我們才用這個方式就是尊重原來委員會的上次協調的決議是這個緣故那這個是行政部門說明沒關係我們慢慢來行政部門的說明那行政部門說明完原則他支持這個陳玉珍委員的提案那來"},{"start":3973.544,"end":3976.387,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案 條例第十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":3998.496,"end":3999.397,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":4019.64,"end":4024.521,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案 條例第十三條條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條條文修正草案 案"},{"start":4048.602,"end":4076.379,"text":"主席各位委員我想這一條一樣其他部分其實在整個實行上面其實就可以含瓜進來那你去動這樣的條文事實上也都有啦剛聽起來消防建設也都有給你補助的話那我認為維持現行條文就可以達到這樣的一個效果更何況是如果我們現在把那個濫墾跟濫建拿掉的話會不會讓社會各界去擔憂說為什麼立法院或經濟委員會為什麼要把"},{"start":4077.839,"end":4100.673,"text":"懶懶懶賤的改善要拿掉是不是懶懶懶賤的改善不要做了我認為法會引發一些不必要的一些困擾所以我是建議就維持現行法其實該做的都還是可以做頂多就做一些附帶決議就是對於這個消防的建設還是請這個中央這邊還能夠持續給予支持我認為這樣子其實應該比較妥善一點謝謝賴議員委員這樣我們請陳玉珍委員請陳廷輝委員請做準備"},{"start":4105.109,"end":4119.128,"text":"消防建設條例第十二至一百一十五年就沒有消防建設的項目,所以他們希望民運化。那剛剛國外說的這個就是拿掉什麼濫墾濫墾,各位委員擔心的,我也同意。"},{"start":4119.548,"end":4148.152,"text":"所以我覺得我們可以修我覺得我們可以把這個第十三條因為我們是把這個本來是天然本來把天然災害防治災害我們改成防救嘛我們就我們改這個然後鏈障設施本來是那個沒有寫到殯障設施那加進來以後濫墾濫建我們現在只留下濫障那我同意我認為也要把濫墾跟濫建加回來這樣就可以了這樣不會讓人家誤會說我們要放好想什麼濫墾濫建不放我們把字再修正回來"},{"start":4148.672,"end":4167.084,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條條文修正草案：立法院第十三"},{"start":4173.528,"end":4198.034,"text":"是因為我們從基層要很清楚我們一般行政部門的想法跟態度你今天列了這兩個好那是不是以後你今天重視這兩個那其他他可能在這個基層承辦人員就說那這兩個已經列進去正面表列了那其他的部分反正這個我們就把它限縮起來這個會有一個很危險的"},{"start":4199.474,"end":4221.491,"text":"包括剛剛你看陳正遠在我們大提案之後也認為說這個濫墾濫竊是可以把它放回來的然後呢我們也認為說你把天然災災害防治的部分把它改成是災害防救天然災害跟所謂災害防救是不一樣的喔是完全不一樣的喔"},{"start":4222.151,"end":4239.786,"text":"所以我覺得這個是要有討論的空間我們不是反對而是我們認為修法既然大家都說哇可能在過去這個法已經隔了那麼久沒有修好既然要修我們就一次把它討論到好修到好"},{"start":4240.447,"end":4241.027,"text":"三、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":4259.02,"end":4279.581,"text":"不要放在其他這麼廣闊的範圍而且要小心是如果你納入到正面表列有可能這基層人員你修了一次法之後會把自己的各縣市政府的一個他的態度會說得更緊因為他會說這就不重要所以不需要正面表列"},{"start":4280.362,"end":4292.586,"text":"那我覺得這個反而我們把他埋了一個炸彈在那裡所以我認為我們要負責任修法是我們立法委員的職責沒錯所以我們認為更應該要更謹慎態度要修請國發會主委請國發會相關單位去跟三個先離島的縣政府"},{"start":4300.609,"end":4301.99,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正"},{"start":4316.081,"end":4340.286,"text":"有漏網之魚。」我們的態度是這個樣子,我們沒有反對,我要再次強調,我們沒有反對,但是我們認為應該要更嚴謹,既然要正面表列,就更嚴謹地把離島縣政府他們的態度真的了解清楚放進來。好,接下來陳經理委員繼續請任委員,任委員後面請曾天才委員請準備。"},{"start":4341.82,"end":4357.181,"text":"好 謝謝主席、各位委員其實我們來看整個這個原來的條文裡面其實是不管是就整個大象的包括基礎建設、產業建設、教育建設、文化建設、交通建設、醫療建設、觀光建設、警政建設"},{"start":4357.602,"end":4358.964,"text":"全體委員會第十三條條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":4376.998,"end":4396.6,"text":"這個殯葬設施在我看來他有可能是會是在基礎建設裡面也有可能是在某個裡面那我認為那個本來就應該放在裡面就可以做了如果你單獨把它拉出來反倒會顯得很突兀那如果照這個要拉那是不是每個都要拉每個都要修那拉進來那拉進來的話這個法恐怕就會變得很這個他的整個定義不會變得很複雜"},{"start":4398.081,"end":4416.378,"text":"所以我是建議還是照原條文那另外原條文裡面的天然災害防治我認為這樣的用詞比災害防救來得更好一些就後續因為這個是一個訂定一個計畫跟後續的實施方案那更重要是對於天然災害的防治工作怎麼來做比較好"},{"start":4416.798,"end":4433.173,"text":"那至於救的部分本來在例行上災害防救法的人本來該怎麼救都怎麼救我認為反倒是這樣會更清楚地定義我們在這個計畫當中應該做怎麼樣的一個天然災害防治的工作我認為這個反而會更加清楚所以我是比較建議維持原先的條文會比較妥善一點"},{"start":4433.963,"end":4434.904,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":4451.948,"end":4473.266,"text":"剛才這個修正條根據陳玉珍委員的說明是因為三個縣的縣政府他一個匯報一個匯報所建議的這個案子所以我們從這個匯報所建議的地方的名義"},{"start":4475.668,"end":4478.269,"text":"條例第十三條及第七條之一條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":4489.861,"end":4493.883,"text":"條例第十三條及第七條之一條文修正草案案 案 。"},{"start":4513.934,"end":4540.279,"text":"那至於消防建設,一定是三個縣政府認為需要特別去強化所以我是希望建議我們委員會能夠支持消防建設那至於殯葬設施殯葬設施這個部分因為原來的部分只有談濫葬的改善濫葬的改善"},{"start":4543.113,"end":4545.054,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":4561.91,"end":4578.289,"text":"相關的殯儀館還有相關的這些納古堂塔所以這個都是比較積極性的我是建議我們委員會能夠給予支持那至於天然災害防治"},{"start":4579.693,"end":4582.074,"text":"之改善,天然災害防治之改善,"},{"start":4597.978,"end":4599.34,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":4612.088,"end":4627.887,"text":"陳珍王王我們請行政部門如果要發言我們在第三輪發言謝謝因為我不知道這個因為這幾位都是執行室的這個委員要不瞭解這個像我們離島像我們的消防局是很晚才設立的以前也沒有消防局就是附在警察局裡頭後面才設立然後"},{"start":4629.369,"end":4630.789,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：繼續審查：繼續審查：繼續審查：繼續審查"},{"start":4651.736,"end":4656.079,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：離島建設條例"},{"start":4670.45,"end":4671.451,"text":"二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":4685.236,"end":4685.697,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":4704.241,"end":4706.243,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案"},{"start":4721.863,"end":4722.544,"text":"條例第十三條及第七條之一條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":4741.184,"end":4744.085,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案件 條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案件 條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案件 條例第十三條條文修正草案案"},{"start":4763.57,"end":4780.702,"text":"那就是說要增加靈堂設施就是相關的這些殯葬設施都要增加所以我們民政局這邊才會希望說這個殯葬設施要請你們這邊大力協助請中央大力協助這個要一風一蜀嘛一風一蜀就需要有設施的改善一些地方這個納古塔的設計我們也沒有這個這個東西也比較少"},{"start":4782.904,"end":4783.344,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":4805.057,"end":4818.571,"text":"不要說剛剛陳玉珍說再回到什麼地方幹嘛這一天每一條我相信地方政府都已經上公文上來了就是上到你們都沒有反應所以才會說請立法院在這邊提案好那我們再請行政部門"},{"start":4822.26,"end":4843.794,"text":"我先抱歉因為我之前得到訊息以為這是最後一次但是看起來可討論空間的話我想表達我個人意見那第一個這個法條的部分我們回去研究一下我們這個法條訂定的時間因為早年警政跟消防是一體的那我們去研究看看是不是這個法條訂的時間當時沒有考慮到現在警政跟消防的分開"},{"start":4844.815,"end":4867.124,"text":"但是第十二條原法第十二條是天然災害防治及濫藏濫墾濫建之改善。就是說因為濫藏濫墾濫建造成這個天然災害的時候要去改善它但是我們如果回到第十三條來看的話呢這個原意有一點消失但是濫藏設施應該不會比較難存在這種"},{"start":4868.004,"end":4872.367,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案 案 案 條例第十三條條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條條文修正草案 案"},{"start":4896.362,"end":4905.694,"text":"這個判斷的部分。這個是我以我個人來講我想表達一下我的看法。好謝謝主席齁。我剛本來其實是想說"},{"start":4913.365,"end":4920.748,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第11屆第12條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第11屆第12會期經濟委員會"},{"start":4938.891,"end":4961.986,"text":"其他縣市為什麼不可以?」我覺得這個就有一點奇怪,邏輯上是有一點奇怪。但是如果說你把它,原來我們是要改善所謂的濫藏、濫墾、濫建,這些做一些建設上面整體規劃上,離島的整體規劃上面的這些改善,那我覺得是很OK的啊,整個改善的計畫裡頭,"},{"start":4963.487,"end":4992.311,"text":"除了濫墾濫葬濫建以外我們還會政府還會補充做一些什麼東西但如果說照剛剛陳玉珍委員的那個解釋你把這個東西拿來做禮廳靈堂做殯儀館你就明文寫在這裡直接做這個東西那我就想請教那為什麼離島可以?如果這樣子過的話為什麼離島可以?台中市可不可以?高雄市可不可以?台南市可不可以?嘉義縣可不可以?"},{"start":4994.267,"end":5019.12,"text":"這算重大建設嗎?就直接放在離島保安條例裡頭。我覺得這個就怪了啦,邏輯上就怪了啦。所以我其實建議就是說剛剛主委您講到那個警政消防是不是警政消防是議題,過去我們的認知都是這樣,沒錯。所以要不要把警政加上消防這個是可以討論,我覺得這個我可以接受,可以支持。但如果後面那個東西把它"},{"start":5020.16,"end":5041.125,"text":"很清楚的寫說我就是要蓋禮廳、靈堂、要蓋殯儀館蓋火葬場這個變成是重大建設的話我覺得這個是地方政府的職權啊那這回到前面來講我們前面為什麼反對說由地方政府直接去執行你就會變成很多地方政府該做的事情他把它變成重大建設然後要你中央來買單"},{"start":5043.635,"end":5047.436,"text":"草案案件、草案案件、草案案件、草案案件、草案案件、草案案件、草案案件"},{"start":5063.171,"end":5078.719,"text":"我們當然是要補助給離島因為他的困難他的建設很多東西是中央要協助他去做可是你不能把一些很基礎的建設變成都是中央的責任或者是你地方政府亂報一些以後你清水溝做排水溝建置路燈你都變成是重大建設"},{"start":5087.782,"end":5093.69,"text":"整個離島建設條例就亂了套啦,所以我是反對用這樣子的方式去去做修訂了。」"},{"start":5100.725,"end":5118.28,"text":"好 謝謝主席各位還有主委我想所有的委員會裡面討論的這個案件送出去其實都代表著委員會那我認為還是每一個用詞跟處理都還是要謹慎而且是委員會中心主義如果你委員會沒有好好的審查"},{"start":5118.82,"end":5141.926,"text":"我更不期待在議員會或在這個草引擎上會有更細緻的討論我認為絕對不會有所以我認為這件事情既然出去代表了經濟委員會的門面、面子的話那就應該好好審了那我的看法是這樣裡面的剛剛也提到所有的這些基礎建設各項建設都定在裡面了你獨獨把一個殯葬設施放在這邊這個體制上非常的奇怪"},{"start":5143.126,"end":5167.583,"text":"我認為你要嘛,你要放就全放,乾脆就全放,但是全放其實並不妥適啦,因為各項一些建設,我認為其實這裡面所談到的都是一些大項,基礎建設、產業建設、教育建設,而殯葬設施也納在其中當中一項,我認為這樣定比較清楚,也比較好,如果你要把每一個都列的話,那幾乎會列得非常的廣泛,我認為那不列的難道他不適用我覺得有重要嗎?"},{"start":5168.383,"end":5192.177,"text":"事實上他也一樣,他可能在教育裡面被拉到,比如說教育建設也許他也許有圖書館也許有什麼我不知道,但是也許也有,所以我說這個應該要整體來做思考。那至於消防建設的部分,我認為這個當然也重要啦,但是能不能用比較簡單,也許是用訂進來還是用警消的建設等等,怎麼樣方法進來可以,我覺得這個看起來比較像大面向上的問題是可以的齁。"},{"start":5192.737,"end":5203.666,"text":"但是如果在冰上設施我是建議不要放啦因為我認為放進來反倒會他一樣可以做在其他的基礎建設、各項建設一樣可以做但你放進來在體制上會非常的奇怪"},{"start":5206.112,"end":5233.089,"text":"謝謝接下來我們請陳玉珍委員陳玉珍委員好我們請鄭天才委員請準備我們等鄭天才委員這個發言結束我們就來處理謝謝我剛剛聽了這個邱委員的發言以後我覺得我真的還真的要真的好好的解釋一下我想他們對於離島實在是真的超級不了解來第一個我們這樣現在討論的是第五條我們討論第五條不是在討論重大建設當然是第三條是"},{"start":5234.37,"end":5261.14,"text":"綜合的條文。但第五條講的是離島綜合建設因為我們離島有四年一期的綜合建設計畫這個應該國安會知道那每一次就要先列出來那消防建設會要求被希望列進來就是因為這1、2到1、5你們就沒有給我們消防建設的相關的這個計畫沒有給我們所以消防局才會提出這個要求那我也同意說如果你們認為單面消防不好那你們寫警政消防我也可以接受反正消防建設有在裡頭消防局"},{"start":5261.58,"end":5264.962,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案。」案。 bicynman的納古塔基本上接近不用收錢政府做的。政府因為鼓勵以風以鼠盡量不要土葬。他加納古塔好像"},{"start":5285.194,"end":5307.408,"text":"一年才一千來兩、七百來一千反正就非常少千元以內就是千元的這種非常非常少所以根本沒有任何一個民間業者沒有任何一個人會去金門做這種相關的這種冰上的設施的投資所以這部分需要政府來做沒有任何的民間業者當地也不會外來的不會去做不會做任何更何況金門的這種民風比較不一樣大家對這個當然算是賢樂措施的所以金門縣政府當時自己在"},{"start":5314.733,"end":5322.238,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條"},{"start":5341.71,"end":5359.077,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文"},{"start":5372.07,"end":5373.491,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案案案案案"},{"start":5394.25,"end":5419.065,"text":"國立金門大學的相關計劃是我們金門縣提出來向我們金門縣政府申請補助。這個部立金門醫院金門縣政府自己提出留任獎金因為怕這個醫生跟護士不願意留在金門我們為了讓有醫生護士留任只好自己出錢請這些醫生護士留在金門我們另外發獎金所以不是什麼東西你如果要說什麼東西都裝馬單我現在金門人都聽不下去了大部分錢都是我們自己出的我們只是希望說我們自己出錢的同時"},{"start":5420.106,"end":5421.167,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案 條例第十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":5442.339,"end":5450.743,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案案件、第十三條條文修正草案案件、第十三條條文修正草案案件、第十三條條文修正草案案件、第十三條條文修正草案案件、第十三條條文修正草案案件、第十三條條文修正草案案件、第十三條條文修正草案案件、"},{"start":5472.301,"end":5494.481,"text":"第五條他最主要就是縣市主管機關因依據縣市綜合發展計畫擬定四年一期之離島綜合建設實施方案其內容如下所以這個主要就是縣市政府"},{"start":5495.643,"end":5501.876,"text":"先是政府也就是說三個離島的縣政府所以我建議這個我們委員"},{"start":5504.309,"end":5509.971,"text":"三條條例第十三條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":5534.69,"end":5554.748,"text":"跟主委說明我是老公務員30年公務員我民國70年開始當公務員民國76年主辦在台灣省政府社會處主辦殯葬設施的業務我們那個年代"},{"start":5557.992,"end":5583.119,"text":"火葬場或是殯儀館或是納骨堂塔都是要去拜託把我早期的棍木公園化錢很多內政部補助到省政府社會處的錢很多但是沒有人要執行的鄉鎮公所、縣政府不要執行的因為那個都市會你要蓋個殯儀館"},{"start":5585.097,"end":5596.3,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具、「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":5614.403,"end":5625.469,"text":"主要是都會區,所以現在都會區之所以火化廠也有了,殯儀館但是在臺北市新北市還是欠接這個殯儀館"},{"start":5629.433,"end":5645.226,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案：第十四條條文修正草案：第十五條條文修正草案：第十六條條文修正草案：第十八條條文修正草案：第十八條條文修正草案：第十八條條文修正草案：第十八條條文修正草案：第十八條條文修正草案：第十八條條文修正草案：第十八條條文修正草案：第十八條條文修正草案：第十八條條文修正草案：第十八條條文修正草案：第十八條條文修正草案"},{"start":5646.387,"end":5664.223,"text":"所以這個部分我是建議大家冰葬設施有它的必要性現在在都會區像新北市的那個冰醫館我都認為要打下去到公園下面的成為一個現在都欠缺了"},{"start":5664.804,"end":5668.065,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案 。關於陳玉珍委員提出第五條,"},{"start":5693.813,"end":5716.28,"text":"請大家注意,它是依據縣市綜合發展計劃。綜合發展計劃,所謂失聯定的議題,其實這個沒有好很大的一個證明。如果你覺得都跟消防建設一樣,綜合計劃跟我們島內的差不多一樣,都要有配額款才能做。"},{"start":5717.54,"end":5743.445,"text":"那再來這邊講到殯葬設施看要不要在立法說明裡面把殯葬收施當為基礎建設也可以如果那邊說明就不用特別綠但是主委這個主要是內政部主管的其實現在的錢很多但是內政部因為這個是嫌惡設施設在這個裡設在那個村大家都在抗爭"},{"start":5744.929,"end":5765.665,"text":"但是這個是民主化進步國家應該走的路線所以殯葬設施裡面看要把它放在基礎設施裡面在立法說明裡面包含著殯葬設施這樣的一個字跡在這邊還是特別把它放下去放下去有個謝啦"},{"start":5766.966,"end":5770.109,"text":"二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具〈離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":5782.561,"end":5805.403,"text":"所以我覺得陳玉珍委員提出來他只要在綜合建設實施發展計畫裡面我們願意給他支持離島的我們要多關心一下因為他普通來氣交通經費資源都比較少我希望這邊啊能多多的支持我們這個離島建設尤其離島委員所提出來的謝謝"},{"start":5807.134,"end":5808.976,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":5827.674,"end":5839.124,"text":"行政部門支持提案委員,我們有委員是還有其他的意見。我們討論到現在大概一個鐘頭,終結大家的意見。第一個,似乎大家都支持離島。"},{"start":5853.697,"end":5857.98,"text":"離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":5881.317,"end":5895.666,"text":"但是怎麼還是在原來的這個警政合一、警消合一,沒有把它拉開,沒有拉開。那這個的部分呢在剛剛提案委員也同意,如果在警消,因為原本就有這個警政在第十條裡頭,如果警消在一起,"},{"start":5904.385,"end":5927.412,"text":"對,這個體安委員也同意那再來就是我們第十三原本的第十二款跟體安委員的第十三款那這個部分各位委員因為今天內政部包括的這個宗教師他也在這裡到底殯葬設施跟什麼爛梗、爛柵、爛劍跟現在的社會符合以前離島條例沒人在揮劃的都土種的那現在時事不一樣了"},{"start":5931.673,"end":5933.794,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案 案 條例第十三條條文修正草案 案"},{"start":5964.056,"end":5970.118,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案的第十三條條文修正草案的第十三條條文修正草案的第十三條條文修正草案的第十三條條"},{"start":5981.682,"end":6009.576,"text":"理導的一個綜合計畫裡面事實上殯葬設施都有在做補助所以剛剛國防會是說他弄其他的方式但是至於殯葬設施要不要放裡面這個內政部尊重委員會的決定所以現在國防會也在做來我們交房署交房署哪一位在哪裡交房署哪一個"},{"start":6011.446,"end":6037.461,"text":"主席各位委員大家好那有關消防署的部分那對於條文裡面新增加消防設施那本署也尊重主管機關跟大院的審議結果那這邊附帶報告就是說本署在84年3月1號成立那後續各縣市陸陸續續的成立那金門是在89年5月9號成立消防局那以上報告謝謝"},{"start":6038.78,"end":6039.964,"text":"二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":6042.179,"end":6070.038,"text":"好,我想消防的部分大家經過這樣的討論應該是比較就是放進來應該是大家覺得比較OK的齁但是那個殯葬設施我還是建議就是因為單獨列這個的話那其他的是不是各項細項都要列我認為其實在法的體力上就殯葬設施其實還是都有支持啦齁地方政府有送上來還是都有支持用其他的也都可以甚至有其他別的一些設施的項目也是用其他的那我是建議在法的體力上不要單獨納進這一個啦齁一樣會做這件事情"},{"start":6072.339,"end":6100.613,"text":"另外我還是在建議,因為今天陳議員一直提到各縣市、離島的縣市政府一直有反應意見。我不知道國發會有沒有跟這些縣市政府做過一些溝通。我也希望你們,因為金主委剛上任,我也希望你們再去跟召集一下幾個相關的離島的縣市,聽聽看他們的需求,然後甚至你們擬出更好的方案,就是說你們認為怎麼做。如果你們跟地方政府能夠找到一個更好的方案,再回到委員會來大家討論,這樣更能夠聚焦,不然"},{"start":6101.013,"end":6123.03,"text":"都是由陳玉珍委員好像來代表那個那今天也沒有邀請地方離島的縣市來列席所以我們也無從去了解到底爭執點在哪個地方我會建議這個案這個保留在委員會內那經過國發會跟縣市政府特別是離島的縣市政府再溝通之後再回來委員會再報告我認為這樣的立法會比較周延也符合委員會中心主義的精神"},{"start":6123.57,"end":6131.819,"text":"二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具、「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案案件、離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件、離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件、離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件、離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":6138.687,"end":6159.755,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案 條例第十三條之一條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條之一條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條之一條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條之一條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條之一條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條之一條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條之一條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條之一條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條之一條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條之一條文修正"},{"start":6162.277,"end":6177.802,"text":"來來警消還是警政來其實用警消也達到那個效果警消建設大概就警政跟消防了嘛警消就廣義來講就是警政跟消防法律文字法律文字通常是怎麼寫好像沒有寫警消建設警政跟消防對警政跟消防警政跟消防"},{"start":6179.383,"end":6180.685,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":6201.353,"end":6222.325,"text":"這個達成共識,我們就把陳玉珍委員的第十一款刪除,並在第十款原條文的第十款警政頓耗消防建設。接下來就是天安委員第十三款的部分,原先的第十二款天然災害跟災害"},{"start":6223.306,"end":6248.972,"text":"天然災害及災害、還有防救及防治、還有一個就是殯葬設施要不要放進來。基本上就是在濫墾濫建方面已經同意不修正。請教各位委員,我們針對於天然災害及災害這兩個字的當然災害它是更廣,天然它是限縮在那裡。請教各位委員。"},{"start":6255.145,"end":6257.626,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案 條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案"},{"start":6288.192,"end":6312.772,"text":"簽證設施現在一般在每一個鄉鎮都是當作一個基礎建設我覺得在立法院裡面包含著簽證設施這樣子會比較有那個不然你單單換了一個簽證設施陳昌明委員的意思是在第三款裡頭在立法說明上把他給列明立法說明說明在說明第三款裡頭"},{"start":6314.074,"end":6316.376,"text":"條例第十二條條文修正草案案"},{"start":6335.274,"end":6351.069,"text":"就是原來條文第十二款天然兩個字拿掉災害保留防治改為防救這個然後及後面都一樣後面照原條文然後在第三款的部分律法說明的裡頭基礎設施裡面說明這個"},{"start":6358.203,"end":6382.185,"text":"冰葬設施,包含冰葬設施,在立法說明第三款裡頭。」好嗎?好,那我們非常感謝我們所有的委員喔這個是創下我們這個立法院在立法當中呢大家非常良心喔,非常良善,充分溝通,這個就是立法院的精神經濟委員會是超優的委員會喔,我要謝謝"},{"start":6383.126,"end":6401.022,"text":"所有的委員也謝謝所有的行政部門充分的說明清楚那我們第五條就照剛剛所共同討論的結論那文修方面請這議事主任再調整我們修正通過來接下來我們第七條來第七條行政部門"},{"start":6406.01,"end":6422.02,"text":"關於第七條跟前面第三條其實是比較類似,過去都是由中央規劃,但是地方可以提出來,然後經過中央的審議一起共同的去修正。那現在的修正方式多了一個地方是屬於縣市綜合發展計畫,離島綜合"},{"start":6424.562,"end":6451.182,"text":"建設實施方案所列之計畫及縣市主管政策上推動或輔導之建設由縣市政府另訂之。」那這個另訂之會影響到整個國家總體規劃所以我們還是建議用以往的方式共同協商來透過這個計畫上來以後大家共同來調整會比較好所以我們認為不宜爭裂關於這個條文"},{"start":6454.246,"end":6463.841,"text":"那第二個部分是談到國家公園的計畫,原則上我們尊重內政部,我想請內政部是不是表達一下他們對於這個國家公園的部分有沒有什麼看法?"},{"start":6464.602,"end":6480.737,"text":"好,來,那就先暫停一下。主席的說明,因為第七條跟第三條,最重要的精神就是說縣市政府要不要納在裡面。本席也認為這個我們必須要在,因為兩方的爭議還蠻大。"},{"start":6484.58,"end":6486.681,"text":"條例第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":6512.878,"end":6539.463,"text":"都市計劃農業區的這個部分由縣市政府另定之。」那這個提案委員這個也是跟第三條也一樣就是地方政府要不要納入那你們先不要說明你們再去討論一下好不好我們隨後再來好在第七條之一我們保留待會第二輪再來那第四我們委員會第十條第十條請行政部門"},{"start":6543.411,"end":6546.401,"text":"免徵營業稅的部分。」我們請財政部次長。"},{"start":6552.198,"end":6573.686,"text":"謝謝委員還有主席基本上第十條因為陳玉珍委員是建議說在第一項的後段加一個就是未符合免徵營業稅條件的銷售貨物或勞務的營利事業或者是營業人他可以這個營利事業所得稅的部分可以減徵25%然後另外就是在第三項的部分"},{"start":6574.246,"end":6575.087,"text":"條例第十條的後段"},{"start":6595.541,"end":6596.962,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案 條例第十三條"},{"start":6611.172,"end":6638.928,"text":"其實這個是對我們這個促進離島的觀光的旅客在當地的消費是給予相當的優惠而且這個其實是對於當地的營業人已經提供了非常適切的優惠措施那至於後段如果加了一個這個不符合條件的營業人反而可以享受營利事業所得稅的減徵其實這個是很矛盾的一個規定因為我們本來就是希望去符合條件你可以享受營業稅的減免"},{"start":6640.129,"end":6652.295,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：第二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：第二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：第二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：第三、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條條文修正草案：第四、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三"},{"start":6659.079,"end":6664.98,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文"},{"start":6686.124,"end":6691.211,"text":"或者是來去補助這些特定的營業人因為他就是對於不符合條件的營業人反而給他減徵的優惠這樣其實是一個違反租稅公平和有中立性的這個規定所以我們是認為這個條文這樣的徵定是不是非常妥適的"},{"start":6703.067,"end":6728.918,"text":"然後至於第三項對於公用事業的營業人說可以這個進口的這個貨物或勞務的話可以免徵營業稅跟關稅首先我們要講說其實在我們的第二項裡面對於離島地區他們這些營業人進口或者是銷售這些這個商品本來就可以免徵關稅了所以公用事業這部分似乎不需要在這個地方另外訂定他可以在我們這個第二項的免徵關稅的範圍裡面"},{"start":6730.839,"end":6732.78,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案 案 案 條例第十三條條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條條文修正草案 案 條例第十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":6757.33,"end":6768.739,"text":"那現在因為進口的水本來就沒有關稅本來就是零稅率那現在就是可能有營業稅的負擔但是這個營業稅的負擔因為我們在離島建設條例第十四條裡面本身也有規定就是說對於離島地區的水、電我們這些就是要照跟本島的這個費率一樣來徵收但是如果說進門地區像進門水廠"},{"start":6782.25,"end":6785.033,"text":"如果因為負擔了這個營業稅然後它產生了虧損的話其實目前第十四條已經有規定就是可以由我們的這個經濟部水利署來編列預算來填補這個虧損來彌補這個虧損而且現在也就在做"},{"start":6798.368,"end":6802.411,"text":"那而且這個我知道委員非常關心這個事情而且之前我們也在那個離島地區開了一個跨縣式的會議那當時在就是4月19號的時候也做成決議就是委員就覺得說這個經濟部水利署好像填補的時間拖得太慢所以那時候在會議上也有決議就是說要我們經濟部去修正這個補助辦法"},{"start":6825.069,"end":6838.152,"text":"能夠盡快把這個時間縮短讓這個填補能夠盡快能夠彌補這個損失給這個給金門縣政府這樣的話這個問題就可以解決所以我們是覺得這一條似乎也沒有增訂的必要以上說明謝謝說明我們有賴立文委員然後邱英文再來陳玉珍委員"},{"start":6848.749,"end":6877.187,"text":"好 謝謝主席、各位委員還有財政部跟國安會的同仁我想這一條一樣就是看來有很多的部分就是跟地方跟中央之間的那我認為其實看來還有許多需要地方政府要做溝通的第一條顯然有些是影響到整個銀索銀索稅的部分而且是全台灣的適用的部分這個應該要去跟地方政府做更多的溝通那第二項的部分"},{"start":6878.228,"end":6879.108,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案．事由：繼續審查：繼續擬具"},{"start":6901.119,"end":6928.522,"text":"那剩下的再回來委員會內討論我認為這個會比較有效率的做法不然都會耗費掉相當多的時間更何況今天也沒有邀請到相關的幾個單位來列席我們也無從知道他們的考量是什麼他們的考量是什麼那我還希望在邀集完之後再來談那第一個部分我還是要強調第一項那個部分引鎖稅的部分當時竟然要已經當其實全部已經講得非常清楚就是說整個"},{"start":6931.077,"end":6946.593,"text":"次長理事長講得非常清楚了整個我們的這些免徵收營業稅的條件等等的都有一些特定的那如果你又再做這樣的政策下去你等於跟原來既有政治相矛盾相衝突的那如果這個可行的話那其他的"},{"start":6947.193,"end":6975.172,"text":"偏遠的地區的要不要也來比照?未來會不會有更多這樣的問題?就是說簡針的比如說有些可能是比較偏遠的地區的那是不是也會要求比照?我認為這個會讓整個國家稅收的體制會混亂掉啦所以我是建議經過溝通我還是比較傾向支持這個財政部的意見但是我請財政部要去找這幾個縣市政府來溝通好不好?有些可能是他們並不了解而導致產生的一些誤解好不好?謝謝好接下來我們請邱議員委員"},{"start":6978.068,"end":6998.422,"text":"謝謝主席我的看法大概跟財政部是雷同就是說原來已經有免徵的部分我們當然還是持續維持那沒有符合條件的你反而給他減徵25%這個邏輯就怪了那如果說離島可以我同樣的問題本島可不可以為什麼離島可以本島不可以"},{"start":7003.158,"end":7017.285,"text":"我覺得在租稅公平性的原則底下我其實是非常反對這樣的一個修法所以包括後面的甚至於說從民國112年起到122年止的銀索稅是減徵那為什麼是到122年止為什麼不到130、140、150呢?"},{"start":7029.622,"end":7031.243,"text":"條例第十三條及第七條之一條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":7055.737,"end":7082.567,"text":"這條因為涉及稅賦我在仔細的說明一下大家當然一直在講公平我們很多委員都講公平那大家都說要公平要公平那你們怎麼都沒有看到不公平的地方比如說我剛剛有提到那個用水為什麼是我們來付錢中央明明這是中央的事項那現在用水的我們在這條後面後項特別是講那個用水事實上就是因為我們水的話自己買以外還要自己這個付這些"},{"start":7083.027,"end":7085.889,"text":"財政部財政部財政部財政部財政部財政部財政部財政部財"},{"start":7109.343,"end":7135.799,"text":"這個臺灣各縣市的這個水都是由中央負擔那金門要由金門縣政府自己負擔然後金門他說會補給我們你們先電電了幾年以後我們再還給你們那中間的利息請你們先出這有道理嗎明明這些都是應該中央那要講公平那為什麼以前菸酒公賣的時候我們那時候酒一瓶是大概要繳給中央五、六十大概六十塊左右現在變成這個菸酒稅我們一瓶就要繳給中央一百多塊"},{"start":7137.27,"end":7137.89,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案"},{"start":7157.961,"end":7181.893,"text":"因為本來是上個禮拜我們要跟那個財政部再開一次會看到底怎麼修正齁會比較這個符齁大概整體來講比較妥當那因為上禮拜特別忙碌啊那還這個禮拜如果明天過完比較沒那麼忙碌我也是同意說可以讓跟財政部再做這個面對面的工那當然我們請這個我們相關的先進財政局也過來也一起溝通齁這點我倒也同意啦齁那還更了解情形啊"},{"start":7182.503,"end":7187.345,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：繼續審查：繼續審查：繼續擬具"},{"start":7208.556,"end":7231.484,"text":"每一個地方、每一個人民其實要面對的都應該被公平對待如果有委員提出有認為這個不公平的地方我們都可以就這個再去檢討到底為什麼在不一樣的地方有不一樣的一個課徵標準這也是我們現在在講的嘛就是說現在提出這所謂的這個減徵25%那為什麼是減徵25%那為什麼是在這個離島的部分"},{"start":7238.326,"end":7267.638,"text":"這就是我們現在在討論的所謂公平所以我們也認為只要是委員認為提出不公平的地方我們也應該財政部要去做檢討為什麼人家用水在這個我們本島的部分是這樣然後離島的部分是這樣那淹水的部分是這樣然後這個離島的又是這樣這個會被誤解因為這個都是我們的協商也都是透過這個直播的方式所以我也認為剛剛委員所講的應該要說清楚講明白"},{"start":7268.078,"end":7289.74,"text":"但是不能用那個來說我們要這個公平過去對我們不公平我們現在要公平所以就要減徵25%好那我們要問的為什麼減徵25%為什麼會盯在這個標準那為什麼是在減徵這所謂的一年稅的部分所以我認為這個都有太多要去討論的空間了"},{"start":7291.241,"end":7307.107,"text":"而不是在今天就去做這樣的一個大家我們說的委員大家討論完就這樣決定我認為財政部也要推出一套的說法大家討論清楚才能讓大家能夠有一個方向。首先我們要了解地方的財政狀況"},{"start":7318.854,"end":7344.253,"text":"那金蒙縣他主要的財源就是金蒙酒廠、金蒙高粱。他一年營業120億,但是繳到40億給中央,燕酒稅。我新有77燕,苗栗有兩個燕廠,還有一個啤酒廠,我們繳稅大概不曉得繳了多少,但是我們竄稅的能力高。"},{"start":7345.41,"end":7357.924,"text":"你繳的稅越多,在統籌分配款裡面就越少,分得越少。我覺得這個不合理、不公平。所以這一條法定要修改的話確實有困難。我們評論一下,護稅公平之原則每個地方一樣,"},{"start":7362.549,"end":7385.802,"text":"但是在這邊包括國發會也要質疑這個問題財政部你最重要在統籌分配款裡面有繳稅多的地區他繳出來稅不亞於屏東縣、不亞於哪裡還是嘉義縣所以你在分配統籌分配款把剛剛陳委員所講的苗栗所講的困難你說我負債300億、500億"},{"start":7388.444,"end":7400.893,"text":"三、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：第十三條條文修正草案：第十三條條文修正草案：第十三條條文修正草案：第十三條條文修正草案：第十三條條文修正草案：第十三條條文修正草案：第十三條條文修正草案："},{"start":7417.245,"end":7428.334,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文"},{"start":7436.121,"end":7458.98,"text":"那個三級或四級、五級的財政負擔,我覺得這個是最重要,不然你要改這很困難的,這轉過身了,我是建議這樣啊。那立法說明如果不改就是給他加名,地方如果有創稅多的地方應該給予統籌分配款多餘補支啊,也只能這樣啊。"},{"start":7460.199,"end":7486.77,"text":"好謝謝好謝謝來我們最後請那位委員主席各位講到公平不公平我敢出言聲會請劉主委跟李次長也再聽一下認真聽一下齊金我的選區原來是個半島因為高雄港開港創造台灣的這個經濟上的效益的開港之後他被切斷掉成為是一個離島但是因為他有做了一條過港隧道所以他就不列入離島建設條例的規範"},{"start":7488.607,"end":7510,"text":"所有這些離島們都有離島建設條例的不管是經費或者所有的相關這些減免期經作為一個真正的離島只因為他有一條過港隧道沒有而現在過港隧道年限已經接近了但我們延壽了啦我只是希望你們一併要去思考啦像這樣期經這樣的狀況其實應該要給予更多的支持跟照顧他比離島還要辛苦啦當然他離世"},{"start":7510.8,"end":7539.339,"text":"事區近一點,有一條過港所以還有渡輪可以過去但事實上他一樣面臨到整個所以地方創生也把他列入到這個比較需要照顧的一些區域所以我希望主委跟次長審慎思考這個問題不一定要去用到離島建設這個條例的一些資源不一定要用他的錢但是應該給他們更多照顧所以我提過類離島的概念給他們一些自視照顧不要讓那些年輕人才不斷的流失然後產業地方上的發展受到限制我要再次強調"},{"start":7541.04,"end":7567.841,"text":"因為高雄港開港為了國家建設而變成了離島只是因為它有過港隧道而過港隧道它都有年限年限到了以後它就一樣又恢復到沒有辦法交通非常不便利的狀況即使是有也是一條過港隧道過去而已所以我希望主委剛上任認真思考這個問題講到公平不公平我就把這個一併再帶上謝謝好謝謝大家都是一起為國人好那這個部分在我們這個第七條"},{"start":7570.816,"end":7574.347,"text":"第七條之一條文修正草案。"},{"start":7585.729,"end":7607.828,"text":"我們剛剛充分討論的第十條,那第十條的部分財政部也有說明,那各位委員也充分說明,那大家還是希望都能夠再詳實,所以我們這個就先保留。接下來我們第十條之一,來參議委員、行政部門請說明。"},{"start":7610.384,"end":7627.514,"text":"關於第十條之一這個提案的利益是希望能夠促進這個離島的這個旅客的消費意願也讓這個消費的去旅遊的旅客比較方便可以在本島的港口可以去提貨這個利益是非常好的那"},{"start":7629.451,"end":7647.826,"text":"那他的優點也在這個地方但是我們在評估他有一些比較要多考量的地方就是第一個他的貨品免稅店貨品跟非免稅的貨品重複的部分那會不會影響到既有店家的業務那第二個部分是帶回的商品"},{"start":7648.446,"end":7660.912,"text":"他有沒有可能在本土銷售?所以這兩個點我們是建議基於這兩個層面我們還需要再更進一步的釐清所以我們是建議我們再多收集各方的意見經過深入探討以後再來決定這個條文"},{"start":7670.534,"end":7697.224,"text":"我不知道主委為什麼會做這樣子的答覆就是第十條之一它是必須要搭配第十條來看就是離島建設條例先有第十條後來才增設了第十一條對才增訂了第十條之一第十條它的規定是離島地區的貨品它必須要在當地銷售並且交付使用"},{"start":7698.308,"end":7723.409,"text":"才可以免營業稅。」那現在提貨區的設置呢,並不符合交付使用這樣子的前提要件。假如說免稅店可以,那一般的營業人可以不可以?"},{"start":7724.437,"end":7748.675,"text":"其實三個離島大概都有特產。比如說澎湖其實有很多海鮮是透過宅配。那我能不能假如說免稅店可以跳脫交付使用這樣子的大概念。那一般的配售可以不可以?"},{"start":7749.958,"end":7765.916,"text":"其實這個問題本席已經在過去這七、八年很多業者希望我能夠取消就是讓配送到台灣本島的貨品也可以免營業稅"},{"start":7767.117,"end":7791.434,"text":"和我不敢修不敢修的原因是因為他跟第四條有抵觸另外一個就是在稅法上這樣子公不公平所以我覺得主委是不是在做法條回覆的時候可能還是要再慎重一點第二個就是"},{"start":7793.898,"end":7818.326,"text":"離島跟台灣通行的港口很多那多數的非商港並沒有CIQS的設置也就是海巡移民署關稅的綜合查驗的機制那你們在保稅上如何杜結走私再來就是"},{"start":7823.739,"end":7839.535,"text":"離島免稅店核准的前者單位是地方政府。地方政府怎麼跨縣市來核准免稅購物商店的提貨處的執照。在免稅的範圍裡面"},{"start":7847.304,"end":7857.347,"text":"大概也沒有說我們從國外訂購了免稅品進來國內提貨的這個整體來講我覺得假如說這個法通過了我是從法制面跟離島建設條例的整體考量來"},{"start":7875.088,"end":7900.884,"text":"來做討論,要不然假如說我純粹站在澎湖金門馬祖的地場當然假如說只要免稅店可以設提貨處那我澎湖就到台灣金門也是一樣就到台灣各港口甚至於我們也加修機場就到各機場港口全部設一個提貨處"},{"start":7903.069,"end":7931.796,"text":"第六處那就可以免營業稅。」我不相信財團可以一般的民眾不行離島建設條例最主要在保障的還是離島居民最主要保障的對象還是離島居民所以我其實私底下有跟參議委員做過說明那我對這樣子的修法我是反對的"},{"start":7933.845,"end":7946.173,"text":"而且我也在這邊說,假如說這樣子可以,那賴慧榮委員他有小港機場,機場可能馬上也會進來。那機場進來以後,我們一定會也設一個澎湖金門馬祖的提貨處。"},{"start":7954.963,"end":7966.727,"text":"因為已經打破了必須要銷售並且交付使用,把併交付使用這個打破了嘛,那免營業稅的範圍會多出很多。"},{"start":7970.373,"end":7995.869,"text":"那我覺得彭州居民其實是支持的可是我不得不提醒行政機關以及委員會的委員就是說這樣子的放寬對於稅收的、付稅的公平性應不應該謝謝好 謝謝接下來我們區議員委員我們這一條就到區議員委員發言謝謝"},{"start":8001.294,"end":8002.535,"text":"二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":8021.166,"end":8022.007,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案 案 案"},{"start":8046.878,"end":8047.918,"text":"條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":8076.65,"end":8077.871,"text":"二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":8099.177,"end":8118.869,"text":"因為剛好他第五條是單一所以我們五個版本他剛好單一其實我覺得這樣修討論很理性、很合理這樣很好這樣看起來像這樣公發演講我們就做結論就不用跟他們說了我們經濟都很對、對、對第五條謝謝大家第五條先出去其他的留在這裡因為你說65歲以上原住民離島的居民不用繳建保證"},{"start":8126.954,"end":8142.218,"text":"草案案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第"},{"start":8142.838,"end":8160.029,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：離島建設條例第十三條條文"},{"start":8162.671,"end":8176.854,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條"},{"start":8185.116,"end":8207.93,"text":"條例第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條條條文修正草案：立法"},{"start":8210.359,"end":8213.022,"text":"二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":8229.439,"end":8231.06,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":8246.587,"end":8261.678,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條"},{"start":8263.78,"end":8267.482,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":8300.051,"end":8307.938,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具、「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案案案。"},{"start":8316.496,"end":8317.958,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":8334.041,"end":8361.148,"text":"關於第十三條這個維護離島權益部分主要是要增列在滿年滿55歲之原住民給予這個健康保險的那個給付那因為這涉及到我們內部的評估是因為它涉及到全國原住民的一致性所以我們是建議是說先暫時原意維持原條文然後我們再來針對全國原住民的部分再做討論"},{"start":8367.652,"end":8381.428,"text":"這條條文現行的條文是說65歲以上離島地區居民全民健康保險對象應自付之保險費由中央政府編列預算支應"},{"start":8383.21,"end":8398.183,"text":"這個因為考量到離島地區的醫療院所各方面很多的然後這個相關的這些不方便性都多有所以才會現行的挑釁針對不分族群的年齡65歲以上"},{"start":8400.305,"end":8410.33,"text":"條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條"},{"start":8431.325,"end":8449.805,"text":"公教人員包括教育人員的退休也都是55歲因為原住民跟非原住民的一個落差的問題現行的法律就已經有這樣的規定所以既然要修這個離島建設條例所以黃仁委員才會提出"},{"start":8451.266,"end":8478.361,"text":"然後我提了修正我也提修正動議我之所以會提修正動議就是說這個以現行的條文是說中央政府編列預算支應那因為離島建設基金已經都沒有錢了所以現在都是由衛福部來支應我就把它修為中央目的事業主管機關更明確跟下面的條文的款一樣都是用中央目的事業主管機關"},{"start":8479.434,"end":8497.868,"text":"那我這樣子定之後65歲以上的這個非原住民他就由衛福部那55歲以上的原住民就由延民會來編列預算支應是這樣所以這個部分來跟大家說明"},{"start":8498.829,"end":8513.033,"text":"好 謝謝那在修正動議的這個庭院委員舒明以及行政部門那經過剛剛休息的時候還是大家還是沒休息繼續在討論那認為還是要給一點時間讓他們去做整體性的一個規劃那在基本上我們這個第十三條跟修正這個動議的部分我們併案請行政部門再研討"},{"start":8528.558,"end":8555.594,"text":"好,那主席來這邊來宣告我們現在請宣讀學生結論在宣讀學生結論以前我特別要感謝我們所有的委員真的感動這一次我相信我們都是透過國會頻道讓大家看到立法委員在審查的時候是充分的討論尤其在經濟委員會我們都非常藍綠白的非常和諧跟行政部門充分討論那我們現在請宣讀學生結論"},{"start":8558.971,"end":8573.077,"text":"宣讀離島建設條例協商結論第三條保留、第五條一陳委員等人提案修正第十款、第十一款合併為第十款謹正頓耗消防建設。第"},{"start":8576.121,"end":8596.599,"text":"第十二款一現行法文字修正為災害防救及濫障頓耗濫墾頓耗濫建之改善句號。補充立法說明第三款基礎建設包含殯葬設施等,其照成員提案通過。"},{"start":8598.041,"end":8609.773,"text":"清真第七條之一保留,第十條保留,第十條之一不予通過,第十三條提案條文跟鄭永天才的修正動議均保留。」"},{"start":8615.296,"end":8615.776,"text":"條文修正草"},{"start":8629.065,"end":8629.905,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":8657.776,"end":8676.036,"text":"好沒有那主席台要做宣告我今天啊真的我要謝謝再一次第三次謝謝我們所有委員以及行政部門大家都充分包括內政部財政部這個都非常想死那主席台宣告我們從九點開會到現在"},{"start":8679.039,"end":8685.562,"text":"我們充分討論針對離島條例本院議程將討論的事項第三案及第五案併案擬具審查報告提報院會討論不需交由黨團協商那院會討論的時候由本席來做說明那同時其餘討論的事項所列議案令定期繼續審查那我要非常感謝第三案也就是"},{"start":8712.479,"end":8723.971,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條條文修正"},{"start":8732.911,"end":8760.667,"text":"通過的條文相關法制用語我們授權給主席以及議事組人員來做整理那要謝謝各位委員以及行政部門謝謝所有的媒體朋友今日的議程處理完畢星期三繼續開會現在休息謝謝主席如果你們願會也能夠照主席這樣的模式處理的話那也不會有這麼多的抗爭這主席處理的模式能夠帶給傅坤祺總召謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}