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Start創新創業計畫未來將擴大職場體驗機會協助青年職涯發展"},{"start":2597.503,"end":2622.479,"text":"更為積極鼓勵大專校院學生開拓國際視野培養全球化相關技能帶動教育國際化沿意設立百億青年圓夢基金當臺灣走進世界我們也歡迎世界走進臺灣以上報告敬請各位委員持續給予本部支持與指教敬祝各位委員健康平安謝謝"},{"start":2624.534,"end":2650.874,"text":"好謝謝鄭部長的口頭報告我們現在就來進行詢答謝謝每位委員每位初期的委員質詢時間是10分鐘必要的時候延長2分鐘列席的委員質詢時間是4分鐘本席再次的提醒因為今天時間是相當的充足所以請各位委員把握時間發言登記的截止時間是上午10點30分"},{"start":2652.975,"end":2669.684,"text":"委員若有臨時提案請在10點30分前提出並於本會委員范雲質詢結束後我們就另行處理處理提案的時候若提案的委員及聯署委員均不在場我們原例不予處理我們首先就請發言登記第一位的萬美玲委員質詢好謝謝召會我們有請鄭部長好鄭部長"},{"start":2691.86,"end":2693.065,"text":"部長準備好了嗎?好 那我們就開始囉"},{"start":2698.137,"end":2724.507,"text":"部長,我想教育是百年大計也是國家的根本那您現在在這個時刻接下教育部長一職我相信接下的不是只有一個職位而是一個非常神聖的使命那您也說到上任要落實的第一件事情就是要在兩岸尊嚴對等的條件之下讓入生的學衛生來台那麼兩岸的青年恢復交流有助於了解彼此往好的方向發展,對嗎?"},{"start":2726.168,"end":2729.732,"text":"但是怎麼在今天的報告上面沒有看到你第一件想要落實的事情?根據我們看到媒體的報導"},{"start":2749.911,"end":2771.184,"text":"也就是說在明年的2月份我們對於陸生的碩博士就要來這個簡章公佈然後5月份就會放榜那對於這個陸生的學士班在5月份呢我們會簡章公佈7月份會放榜甚至於最快可能會7月份就來入學這是真的嗎是的我目前是朝跟委員報告我目前是朝這個方向在努力"},{"start":2771.789,"end":2772.209,"text":"教育部部長鄭英耀列席"},{"start":2787.543,"end":2803.192,"text":"呼應賴慶德總統在就職演說來做一個政治性的演出為什麼本席這樣說呢因為其實在109年的時候呢其實陸方就已經公告暫停陸生來台那這個我相信部長您一定知道那在這段時間當中"},{"start":2804.513,"end":2814.083,"text":"過去我們蔡英文政府時代我們的部長不是沒有努力過他們也曾經多次的呼籲想進各種的管道那麼希望對岸能夠重新來開放陸生來台但是都是溝通無效同時對岸已讀不回"},{"start":2819.588,"end":2836.779,"text":"那所以呢現在您這麼有把握而且呢連時程點做法都出來了那是不是現在我們已經開始進行溝通了對岸有開始回了嗎而這件事情應該是一個雙向的事情它不是一個單一的意願所以呢部長您現在是怎麼看待這樣的事情"},{"start":2837.579,"end":2858.376,"text":"是的謝謝委員的一個關心我想我們在跟陸委會在這個部分我們事實上在合作的那我也同意委員過去確實不管基於什麼樣的一個原因但是能夠讓兩岸有更和平和協的一些發展互動我想"},{"start":2859.036,"end":2872.705,"text":"特別是在教育這一個區塊我們還是希望讓年輕人有更多的彼此透過學習、交流往好的那一個方面來發展我想這個訊息出來我們很多大學端的這個校長啊教授啊其實都非常樂見喔那但是呢他們也都是保持這個審慎樂觀的態度在看待因為還是那一句老話這個是雙向的喔這不是單向哪一方可以一廂情願就可以達成的喔"},{"start":2888.175,"end":2914.486,"text":"所以其實連本席我們都是非常支持也非常樂見那當然因為就像部長剛剛講的我們希望兩岸的年輕人恢復交流那兩岸之間可以從教育開始有一個好的一個發展那這個是我們有的共識那當然另外一個也是因為這幾年我們看到台灣少子化那所以呢教育部其實也推動一個國際產業人才教育專班也就是心情專班那部長剛剛上任我想應該也知道啦因為這個是非常重要的一個政策"},{"start":2915.026,"end":2918.108,"text":"這是希望我們在113年到116年能夠招到18568名外籍生啦18000名左右但是我們看到其實過去我們兩岸其實在非常和諧的交流跟發展的時候陸生在台灣累積在台灣的人數就高達了41975人而現在大概剩下一成左右所以我們看到這個數字本是要講其實如果能夠真的"},{"start":2943.422,"end":2971.976,"text":"大家好好溝通能夠開放陸生來台你看我們那麼辛苦做一個心情專班也不會要招一萬八千多個這個學生而陸生在我們這個狀況最好的時候我們看到在巔峰四萬一千多個人我相信這個數字要給這個部長做一個參考那另外當然同時提醒部長我想從2011年開始事實上我們也持續做了很多檢討放寬陸生來台各項很有善很便利的措施非常多項十幾項"},{"start":2973.297,"end":2991.207,"text":"那這些友善的措施部長你都知道是哪些嗎?你只要回答我知不知道就好知道嗎?好那既然我們開放這麼多這個友善便利的措施那為什麼這四五年以來始終啊陸方還是沒有辦法去開放陸生來台那真正的原因您認為是什麼?"},{"start":2993.336,"end":3008.336,"text":"﹚"},{"start":3009.056,"end":3031.768,"text":"但部長彭希要提醒您啊如果你不方便或是不宜或是甚至於不知道為什麼這問題很嚴重欸那你怎麼對症效要你怎麼說你怎麼能夠說我現在什麼明年的五月明年五月學士班就要這個招生呀什麼七月他們就要來啊你怎麼有辦法那麼肯定去對外公布這樣的事情你甚至於不知道為什麼我們有這麼多便利的措施給他們都不來"},{"start":3032.768,"end":3056.105,"text":"我不知道問題如何去解決問題我想跟委員報告事實上這些年來他會有比較明顯的一個這個停止雙方的一些這個學術或者這個學習上的交流主要我們知道在這幾年這幾年來事實上因為COVID的一個關係使得我們我剛才有看到您後面這一位不知道哪一位了"},{"start":3056.365,"end":3078.88,"text":"他的那個嘴形我有看到他提供給你這個答案這樣不好部長我想喔這個嘴形太明顯了啦那部長要有自己的想法跟思考但是呢看起來喔部長剛剛也其實有稍微脫口說了其實不方便我相信你有很多不方便可以去說明或者是猜想的一個地方喔但是本期要提醒你喔這個開放陸上來台既然啊賴清德總統在就職演說這麼重要的這個場所都在呼籲了喔"},{"start":3084.864,"end":3103.283,"text":"那過去蔡英文總統也呼籲賴清德總統也呼籲陸委會也呼籲過去的教育部也呼籲您又說這個是您上任最重要落實的但是啊本席要提醒不能只靠呼籲啊如果靠呼籲怎麼會過去這四五年來對方已讀不回啊所以呢您必須要知道真正問題點在哪裡好嗎"},{"start":3104.104,"end":3105.505,"text":"這樣才能夠明年我們可以看到真的這樣子一個這個宣誓是會有進展的那當然我們再來討論我想這20年來我們在談的就是教改我們的孩子不斷的被教改我們的老師不斷的被迫"},{"start":3120.773,"end":3131.582,"text":"調適一次又一次適應教改的新的制度我們要知道老師孩子跟家長真的非常的辛苦在這20年當中那部長您曾經參與過審議108課綱那所以呢我們來稍微討論一下108課綱眾多面向問題當中的一兩項那在過去的5年當中"},{"start":3138.288,"end":3151.016,"text":"您認為這個學習歷程檔案這個制度有沒有達成我們原本希望幫孩子進行生涯探索還有減輕孩子升學壓力準備這些資料的目標您認為有達到嗎"},{"start":3154.329,"end":3170.97,"text":"我想那個方向是有價值的但是在執行的過程難免會有一些考慮不周延的我想我們應該肯定就一個年輕學子他們的學習過程裡邊那個學習歷程檔案他的一個價值性"},{"start":3171.811,"end":3176.455,"text":"我相信任何一個制度提出來一定他利益良善也有價值性但是我們來看根據我們學生團體提出來2024年108課綱的觀察報告經過調查竟然有高達56.7%的學生"},{"start":3186.522,"end":3199.425,"text":"他希望這個學習歷程檔案是能夠符合他申請的科系所以他一直朝著這個特定方向去做一個準備所以另外還有55.41%的學生認為製作學習歷程檔案是無助於生涯探索的所以剛剛這個數據顯現一個什麼樣的結果呢就是我們學習歷程檔案再度成為新的升學工具了"},{"start":3211.028,"end":3211.429,"text":"陳.我剛才跟委員報告的"},{"start":3229.93,"end":3257.219,"text":"這一個學習歷程檔案它確實是有價值的但是怎麼樣去讓高中生更清楚然後減少他們不必要的一些擔憂這是我們要來努力的好 要努力的地方真的還蠻多的那我想過去我們在學習歷程檔案之前叫備審資料那我們都知道備審資料每次到高三的時候大家一窩蜂的才來擠來做把過去的資料把它找出來"},{"start":3257.979,"end":3282.095,"text":"甚至於發生了很多代寫甚至於作為商品買賣在備審資料的時候那現在呢我們希望來分散這個壓力所以在高一高二高三然後陸陸續續來做可是我們看到高一高二的學生四個學期他有沒有能力可以把這個學期立正答案做得很好再來他的志向跟志趣在高一高二就一定能夠定下而不改變嗎"},{"start":3283.456,"end":3297.193,"text":"我相信部長你來自這個大學端喔你一定知道其實到了高三也許有些孩子他的志趣改變了他發現他的這個興趣在另外的地方了這時候不能更改啊這時候不能更改那有沒有辦法可以解套這樣的一件事情"},{"start":3298.81,"end":3309.695,"text":"我想我非常同意委員剛才所提的學生在生涯的一個發展裡邊任何一個時刻都有可能因為學習的一個經驗對那所以我們可以調整嗎他的興趣可能會改變我想這個細部我這個會後我來更進一步瞭解我看怎麼樣來做一些可以微調或者怎麼樣來好謝謝部長"},{"start":3323.321,"end":3344.779,"text":"最後另外還有一個我想108課剛我們還在講多元選修的課程這件事情但我們卻發現根據立法院112年中央政府總預算案整體的評估報告當中指出我們普通高中多元學習選修的課程實際的開課數竟然不到計劃開課數的七成也就是說有三成多是沒有依照計劃開課這個現象部長應該也曉得那麼為什麼會這樣原因您知道嗎"},{"start":3352.773,"end":3353.013,"text":"好部長我想喔"},{"start":3367.853,"end":3385.946,"text":"您有答對我想失之不足這件事情很嚴重所以我們希望會後部長能不能夠去了解一下我們目前開課數是持續下降失之不足的地方大小不平均的資源到什麼程度我希望能夠部長了解以後能夠跟本席做一個說明那最後我們談108課綱的問題是非常多上路五年了我們必須要講在準備上面"},{"start":3392.771,"end":3397.412,"text":"對於像這個秩序未定的孩子們你一次要他定下來我覺得那個壓力很大第二個到了以前說這個學期定成檔案是高山才做可是事實上現在是軍備競賽的延長賽那再來呢我們採用現在還是以分數為導向"},{"start":3409.176,"end":3429.472,"text":"因為我們要知道第一階段沒有達到一個標準第二階段教授根本不可能看到我們學習歷程檔案做了他的目的在哪裡最後我想你有沒有發現一件事情我們現在學用落差一樣非常嚴重如果學習歷程檔案是有辦法探索我們這個學生的這個秩序的話學用落差就不會那麼嚴重了我期許部長在118課綱我們馬上114年就要檢討了我們可以把這些問題都帶進去然後在118課綱的時候我們來審慎的評估思考好不好"},{"start":3438.679,"end":3447.523,"text":"謝謝,謝謝委員的關心謝謝,好謝謝萬美玲委員時間很準時接下來我們請登記發言第二位的陳佩玉委員好謝謝主席我們一定會準時那有請部長還有張亮次長還有葉次長謝謝好我們請鄭部長還有兩位次長謝謝"},{"start":3471.976,"end":3472.116,"text":"一人30秒"},{"start":3491.244,"end":3510.959,"text":"謝謝委員 事實上我上來 我想我本身學教育 我一直看到了我們事實上大家共同在努力為台灣培養人才 有一個更具有競爭力的一個人才 不管是產業或者他生涯的發展能夠在國際上能夠發光發射 但是我"},{"start":3512.619,"end":3531.749,"text":"議員．"},{"start":3535.489,"end":3544.158,"text":"聽起來我聽到部長有滿滿的人文關懷而且你把其中非常重要的三個角色老師家長學生都提到了所以謝謝部長那可不可以先把時間給兩位次長謝謝各30秒謝謝"},{"start":3547.636,"end":3573.764,"text":"好謝謝委員我想我來到這邊我過去大家都知道我在教育文化委員會那我負責督導國教跟體育的方面那四肢培育也是那我希望將來有機會進入到教育部之後把過去我所了解的理念能夠逐步的落實配合教育部的政策剛才部長講了非常多那委員也有很多指教那我也希望教育部能夠我能夠"},{"start":3576.185,"end":3591.925,"text":"聽到更多的反應然後來協助部長來推動整個這個包括國教方面我們講到108課綱的落實素養教育等等然後體育屬這個升格為體育部的事情我也會特別特別的來加速協調跟推動謝謝"},{"start":3593.467,"end":3610.645,"text":"好 謝謝張亮次長你剛剛講到說你希望聽到更多的聲音我相信這也是所有人對您的期待還有你剛剛講到體育署要升級這件事情這個部分我覺得大家更期待也許是您有機會直接擔任部長我覺得是更多人的想望接下來歡迎麻煩次長謝謝葉次長"},{"start":3612.546,"end":3634.863,"text":"謝謝委員我想就是說在這個少子化的臺灣我們覺得現在的臺灣其實我們特別在產業的發展上面其實是蠻欠缺人才的那怎樣在少子化的臺灣可以讓臺灣有更多的人才這是我覺得是我這一次會想要加入教育部的一個大原因特別是過去因為我自己在大學然後自己又出來創業我發現就是說因為有這兩邊的"},{"start":3636.124,"end":3655.483,"text":"我發現在大學裡面對產業真的瞭解的這個學校的老師或是學生這方面其實並不是很多所以我未來我希望說我們能夠怎麼樣來做好這個橋接大學跟企業解決學用落差這件事情讓少子化台灣未來的發展不會欠缺人才我想這是我未來會很努力的目標"},{"start":3656.704,"end":3680.609,"text":"謝謝葉副部長我剛剛聽到您說的重點就產業跟學界之間的合作這件事情我想大家都非常期待好那有先先請兩位次長請回謝謝也謝謝你們的回覆我相信大家都非常期待兩位次長還有新部長那第一個想跟部長您談一下關於行政減量這件事情其實我們教育部已經喊了很多年那可是現場的困境是這樣的跟著跟部長您分享這個是新北市的某一所國小"},{"start":3681.089,"end":3699.376,"text":"他們的日常的委員會就有這麼多而且這個編制是因為所有的新課綱或是所有的行政的督導導致於每一個學校必須有這麼多委員會而這些委員會當然所組成的委員裡面就必然有老師可是我要講這些都不含老師日常的教學"},{"start":3700.396,"end":3724.748,"text":"拜課還有跟家長之間的互動甚至還要處理班級經營或者是學生的很多日常的突發狀況只光是國小的部分就這樣我們來看一下國中更慘43個為什麼我說更慘呢因為很多國中生的教學還有跟家長的互動其實那個日常的負荷量其實是非常非常大的那光是把委員會列出來就這麼多而且這個是學校老師整理給我們作為參考我想要問部長"},{"start":3727.009,"end":3736.527,"text":"我們到底該怎麼做到行政減量這件事情甚至到最近都還有投書現場老師對於行政減量是非常非常非常無感的到底我們可以怎麼做這件事情"},{"start":3738.808,"end":3759.224,"text":"謝謝委員的關心,確實我在上個禮拜在聽各部會的各司處的一些工作報告我也非常理解來自於基層第一線上國中小老師跟甚至行政這些主任校長他們也深感到這個行政"},{"start":3759.684,"end":3760.265,"text":"議員提供的報告"},{"start":3774.721,"end":3774.821,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":3799.855,"end":3818.971,"text":"教學的一個專業裡邊盡量能夠從專業的一個教學去協助我們新世代這個不管小學生或者年輕人的一些學習回到一個教育的一個更好的一個教學的一個品質"},{"start":3819.591,"end":3837.32,"text":"好,因為我時間有限但是我已經聽到部長您是第一時間就有關心這件事情而且您也做了相關的指示那我們非常期待後續的調整我們辦公室也會持續追蹤可是我就快速再跟部長分享另外一個狀況除了教育部可以有非常多的公文跟非常多的行政指導給學校之外"},{"start":3837.74,"end":3857.772,"text":"甚至很多跨部會的公文認為有些議題必須要學校配合辦理的例如說國防教育、食農教育很多跨部會的他們就直接把公文呢就透過教育部直接再轉給學校單位對學校來說他就必須要把那個成績的量能做出來或者是那個業務執行的成果做出來對很多老師來說這真的是"},{"start":3858.172,"end":3858.192,"text":"謝謝部長"},{"start":3877.642,"end":3904.451,"text":"好,那下一個部分我想要談關於閱讀作為一種方法的可能我們可以看一下這張投影片在告訴我們有文化資本跟兒童智慧量的研究也就是說到了3這相關的數字是家裡的文化資本越高的小孩相關的智慧量在3歲以前的累積相關的差距不會太大可是年紀越大或者是跟著孩子走進學校之後相關的學術科目的學習成績會落差越來越大"},{"start":3905.131,"end":3926.186,"text":"我相信部長您來自第一線教育現場你一定知道這個狀況所以我非常感謝教育部過往推出的所謂閱推計劃還有明日閱讀這是教育部裡面唯二兩個特殊的專案關於閱讀可是過往我自己要說很多對於閱讀的想像都認為它只是學術科目以外的外加但是部長我要告訴你根據108課綱底下素養的出題方法"},{"start":3928.968,"end":3944.377,"text":"﹚"},{"start":3944.497,"end":3944.537,"text":"拜託部長："},{"start":3967.654,"end":3990.592,"text":"去學習這些學習科目而不是回到我們以前小時候不會就一直練不會就一直寫不會就一直讀其實是沒有用的甚至要透過AI家教我也都沒有意見可是我要問的是從來沒有人好好教這些小孩所謂學習方法這件事情真的只會讓文化資源的落差表現在學術科目學習上是越差越大"},{"start":3991.152,"end":3996.218,"text":"我相信部長你一定深有同感那我也想要在這邊拜託部長那我就不再談這麼多閱讀教育老師的困境可是我們確實感謝教育部從去年修了國教法有相關的預算每年可以有買書相關的調整可是我要說更多還有在閱讀教育現場這件事情"},{"start":4008.232,"end":4035.246,"text":"還有很多沒有做到的但我時間有限我們之後會再跟國教署討論但是我要再次強調閱讀作為一種學習方法它真的已經是這個世代的小孩必然需要的工具它不能再只是把它認為是一種主要學習科目以外的風華學院我要再次強調這件事情也已經很多學者專家告訴我們這件事情我相信國教院一定有相關的研究也請部長積極跟國教院保持討論好嗎"},{"start":4036.898,"end":4040.722,"text":"關於特教的部分也是很多委員一直關心那我辦公室呢過去一整年跟很多特教老師特教現場的"},{"start":4054.195,"end":4054.215,"text":"獲得獎項"},{"start":4073.985,"end":4090.469,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":4090.776,"end":4107.944,"text":"﹗"},{"start":4108.104,"end":4123.461,"text":"所以空間的不足人力的不足經費的不足造成普特融合現場的困境越來越多我我絕對要說我絕對贊成普特融合可是在普特融合大理念之下現場老師的困境必須要被教育部看見必須要被國教署聽見"},{"start":4124.482,"end":4150.152,"text":"這個部分我覺得還有很多可以討論的部分也想要拜託部長後續持續在特教的議題上非常多千頭萬緒請拜託一起關心所以我們關於這個分散式資源班我們現在這邊提出有沒有可能朝一班一師一教室甚至充實相關教育經費還有五年內朝向當時修法最後說一比八邁進我覺得這是一個困難的事情但是我們必須要積極放在心上這可不可以請部長快速回應一下"},{"start":4151.272,"end":4165.391,"text":"我想這一個部分普特的融合這是我們希望這個也是有價值的必然要走的那怎麼樣讓老師在同一個空間裡邊透過這個分組的教學能不會"},{"start":4166.932,"end":4187.101,"text":"部長可是就在同一個空間有困難啦部長你自己在現場教過如果我今天教國文然後這個小孩過動這樣我教他國文可是隔壁同一個空間裡面而且學校教室就這麼小不像我們這邊這麼大欸我覺得關於空間這件事情其實少子化除了很多明星學校之外很擠的學校之外其實很多學校都開始有相關空間釋出了"},{"start":4188.562,"end":4199.044,"text":"但是可能在學校的行政端他們沒有意識到這些特教老師在現場教學的困難所以我想部長我們絕對不要說我們認同同一個空間我覺得這個有很大的教學上的問題"},{"start":4200.117,"end":4203.081,"text":"我們來進一步來瞭解看怎麼樣來做一些調整。"},{"start":4220.101,"end":4241.298,"text":"次長您過去在擔任立委的時候您非常關心相關臺中的教育發展文化體育發展非常謝謝次長我想要先談一下關於臺中中心堂的部分那一直到最近我們聽到有可能有一些調整跟改變可是困境是其實臺體大接手之後關閉中心堂限制到目前為止其實很多地方人士我相信還有黃國書委員也都做過勘查"},{"start":4243.339,"end":4267.792,"text":"現在目前為止你覺得在這個題目上有沒有什麼可能性因為我自己觀察有台中歌劇院之後其實新的場地排擠了舊的場地或者是很多小型的民間表演藝術團體他們認為他們可以申請像這樣小型的場地像是大家一直想要學的韓國韓國確實有很多中小型的場地被活絡使用大家不用都去舉歌劇院所以我也想要問一下次長您身為台中出生的立委"},{"start":4268.092,"end":4280.851,"text":"你對於這一題目前你們有沒有什麼規劃有沒有機會邀請跨部會做一些討論跟協調對謝謝委員的關心我想有關中興堂因為他在他的這個土地所有權他是市政府那後來輾轉的這個使用"},{"start":4283.695,"end":4300.584,"text":"其實很多單位都使用過我想委員很了解包括我們國台教也用過那2012年之後呢又回歸給這個台體大那台體大它畢竟是一個學校它對這個文化場館的運用事實上也沒有多餘的經費跟人力跟人才所以後來呢"},{"start":4302.125,"end":4325.931,"text":"在初屆的過程裡面發生了一些狀況那也因為安全的因素所以後來呢他就是換會那當然在地方的民意代表跟市政府的關心下那目前也在做一些這個研究那初步當然也有委員說可以來做電競使用不過我想他中心堂要怎麼使用我想我們還是尊重地方的市政府的所有權"},{"start":4326.431,"end":4326.551,"text":"謝謝市長 謝謝主席 謝謝"},{"start":4356.857,"end":4359.821,"text":"我們接下來請侯孟楷委員主席謝謝麻煩請鄭部長好請部長"},{"start":4374.537,"end":4396.657,"text":"好部長早齁您剛受訪的時候說非常奇妙來備詢那也說希望台灣教育越來越好本席跟你一樣的想法我們都希望台灣教育越來越好所以我想首先也要先跟您請教因為教育很重要的就是誠實面對不管是過去現在未來都一樣您曾經"},{"start":4398.208,"end":4413.245,"text":"有在擔任中山大學校長的時候當時有政大教育系的教授周祝英指出曾經擔任中山大學校長的部長曾向他坦承卡管案是不對的部長願意證實一下嗎"},{"start":4416.687,"end":4417.567,"text":"所以卡管案是不對的你有說過這句話"},{"start":4446.903,"end":4447.904,"text":"政治黑手或是任何政治意義都應該介入"},{"start":4463.022,"end":4473.189,"text":"基本上我認為應該回到讓大學裡邊從專業出發就學術論學術既有的一個規範就學術論學術我想部長為什麼會特別跟您這麼請教因為過去8年蔡政府的教育成績單卡管案跟論文抄襲案其實嚴重傷害大學自主跟學術倫理"},{"start":4486.897,"end":4508.998,"text":"也因此我們才會希望在新任教育部長開宗明義第一天來到教育文化委員會的時候應該要明確的說明清楚到底在你任內還會不會發生有任何政治力干預大學自主或是學術人力的事情你有信心不會再發生嗎我想在我任內我會朝那個方向努力就是不會讓它再發生對不對好"},{"start":4510.279,"end":4525.771,"text":"那部長另外很多人學界也稱讚你說是作風親民但是都呼籲說應該要檢討一個政策什麼樣的政策剛剛我們有委員提到其實過去好幾年我們也都一直在質詢就所謂的課綱"},{"start":4528.498,"end":4555.452,"text":"學習歷程的部分學習歷程從過去這樣子上來已經已經淪為很多的媒體或說很多坊間都在講代工代寫軍備競賽商品抄襲化甚至你只要打學習歷程google跳出來行情價是多少部長有沒有了解各位報告對不起我不清楚不清楚有沒有聽過有沒有試著google過"},{"start":4556.963,"end":4567.58,"text":"如果說我們連一個教育部長你都不了解說現在高中生面臨到什麼樣的問題要升大學他可能會面臨到學習歷程檔案有開架16萬8有開架20萬"},{"start":4571.049,"end":4571.069,"text":"部長"},{"start":4593.499,"end":4613.105,"text":"要不要正式這樣的問題跟委員報告我想會有這樣的當然不是我們所樂見我們也並不鼓勵當然我相信一開始開宗明義講這個政策的時候絕對不是說要讓民間做事業嘛做生意嘛但問題是現在就是推動了這幾年下來越來越多"},{"start":4614.205,"end":4628.038,"text":"我們要不要查一下現在打學習天人檔案google一下有沒有這種行情架確實的行情我並不清楚因為我來自大學我們當然也在大學裡面聽到一些系所教授他們事實上有講過"},{"start":4629.039,"end":4629.779,"text":"部長你講的都非常好"},{"start":4657.692,"end":4677.722,"text":"這也都是教育人應該要有的理想但理想很豐滿現實很骨感啊現在的狀況就是這樣子那您上任之後要怎麼樣解決這個問題我想我們一定會積極的來宣導包括...宣導不用檢討制度就是告訴大家不要去買"},{"start":4679.056,"end":4687.922,"text":"多講幾次就會有學生認為說不要去買是不是多講幾次叫你不要賣就會有人說啊對因為部長講了不要賣所以我就不賣有可能嗎部長比較誠摯的建議今年已經來不及但是既然您上任是不是能夠在"},{"start":4710.759,"end":4737.936,"text":"這三個月半年的時間針對學習歷程檔案來做一個徹底的檢討我們把過去您有大學端的經驗把過去大學端把高中端的經驗徹底大家來做一個討論學習歷程檔案本席沒有說這樣的政策一定要廢除或怎麼樣但是當利大於弊或弊大於利的時候代表有相關的弊端而我們要做的就是怎麼樣讓它精進更檢討更好這能夠做到嗎"},{"start":4739.337,"end":4763.553,"text":"謝謝謝謝委員的一個關心這個方向確實也是我們在努力的好三個月內是不是能夠針對學習生檔案來做一個檢討我想我們來努力好謝謝部長部長拉回來您上任的時候媒體也對外媒體講說首要三件事其中第一件事情是希望達到賴清德總統就職演說時候的一個目標希望能夠讓陸森來台對不對恢復陸森來台確實這一點我必須要"},{"start":4768.536,"end":4796.693,"text":"就責一下整部教育部業務報告那麼重要部長宣誓三件事三把劍照理講這三把劍如果說我是我們的同仁一定是寫在最前面寫在第一頁結果通篇我們部長的報告36頁下面報告人寫教育部部長報告您的最重要的事情沒有放在裡面為什麼"},{"start":4797.782,"end":4813.894,"text":"如果說只推說給時間來不及我想您不是今天才上任上個禮拜一的此時此刻您剛上任有整整一個禮拜的時間準備我們禮拜五我們柯志恩召委也才告知說今天會有專案報告"},{"start":4814.835,"end":4835.964,"text":"您有太多時間可以準備但沒有放在裡面原因是什麼是不確定沒有信心達成還是有難言之意我會想這是我的疏忽那我們會來深切內部我們會檢討部長您算是有肩膀的人不是推給下屬而是說您自己疏忽那所以您是忘記了"},{"start":4838.783,"end":4842.792,"text":"應該說我確實是整個這個這個角色的一個改變確實是一個"},{"start":4850.678,"end":4874.406,"text":"本席不希望到明年5月公告簡章7月能夠入學的時候又說來不及所以說沒有辦法推行這樣的一個制度所以我想請教現在我們跟溝通的管道是暢通的嗎?能夠確實達到明年5月公告簡章7月放榜9月入學嗎?"},{"start":4875.666,"end":4901.596,"text":"我們跟委員報告我們在努力也跟陸委會這邊有多少信心能夠達成我們當然希望能夠這一個這是一個好事從教育的觀點能夠讓兩岸的年輕人當然是好事能夠交流用教育尤其您有提到平等尊嚴本市也認同一定要平等尊嚴兩岸交流本來就是這樣但我不希望看到第一2023年"},{"start":4903.217,"end":4931.256,"text":"有前總統馬英九他前往中國大陸也是平等尊嚴的一個情況帶學生去交流之後也有大陸學生組團來台交流也是平等尊嚴這兩個交流也沒有涉及到政治但當時民進黨就有委員講說這叫統戰團我們現在想說37位大學生來台灣旅遊觀光一個禮拜就可以幫他們統戰那台灣的民主也太脆弱了吧"},{"start":4932.492,"end":4939.776,"text":"所以部長你有信心明年5月能夠公告檢章7月放榜9月入學會不會變成是統戰?我想我們會努力我們會努力"},{"start":4957.11,"end":4960.151,"text":"部長最後我再請教賴金德總統在選舉的時候有提過說他希望能夠讓高中職全面免學費"},{"start":4982.742,"end":4998.07,"text":"但您知道到目前為止教育部真的有推動可是就有一類人他是被排除在外讓大家覺得說他好像不是我們中華民國的國人他不是我們台灣的學生哪一類人那就是獨招的獨中是有多少位"},{"start":5000.307,"end":5022.865,"text":"一屆有2000位的學生總共6030位這個是教育部長潘文忠給本席的公文總共有6030人三年剛好大概有6000多那大家也會問啊覺得奇怪明明賴清德總統在不管競選或是選舉完之後的承諾都是說高中執免學費一視同仁嗎"},{"start":5023.886,"end":5046.121,"text":"台灣的學生沒有分你我沒有分彼此沒有分階級啊但為什麼會當初他的政策宣布的時候也沒有但書啊也沒有說獨立招生不算如果說他當時有講的話大家不會去怪罪但現在變成是所有的這些家長或學生大家都覺得說奇怪難道我們被賴金德總統遺忘了嗎難道我們被教育部遺忘還是我們不是高中職"},{"start":5047.995,"end":5068.663,"text":"部長我覺得這是一個態度問題今天他的預算到底有多少錢其實算起來每學年依照教育部給本學資料每學年差不多3億他不是一個真的大筆到沒有辦法承受可是他是一個公平性跟原則性的問題在這個部分上面有沒有能夠檢討的空間"},{"start":5070.305,"end":5076.977,"text":"要跟委員報告謝謝委員的一個關心因為根據我們目前的高中職的一個教育法第56條第一項的規定那"},{"start":5079.818,"end":5082.921,"text":"本席都完全理解但是您是教育部長我只請教您的態度是什麼"},{"start":5108.174,"end":5134.36,"text":"我想只要這個就政策的大方向我們是樂觀其成樂觀其成怎麼樣就是說在未來在能夠兼顧這一個這個社會公共性我們希望能夠朝那一個一體適用免學雜費的一個方向來努力就是高中職既然賴清德總統也說了現在也都上路了不管是公立學校私立學校也都是高中職免學費了"},{"start":5135.236,"end":5160.564,"text":"那您也認為是說應該是朝一體適用全部都免學費不要分你我是不是我們希望能夠符合社會公共性的這個前提下我們來努力當然是符合社會公正性現在就是很多的學生跟家長認為說他們被排除在外是不公平啊他們有他們的講法另外一派有另外一派的講法所以本席剛才會請教部長您的態度是什麼"},{"start":5162.486,"end":5176.876,"text":"因為您是主事者,您懂我意思嗎?不管怎麼樣兩派的意見來到你這邊到時候你要做一個綜合判斷不判斷也是一種判斷啦當然就是逃避但賴清德總統竟然已經說了高中職全面免學費我想所有的人也都認為是說"},{"start":5178.277,"end":5202.643,"text":"這一句話絕對沒有抄議或是絕對沒有過度衍生就是高中職只要你念的是中華民國國民你是台灣的學生你高中職就免學費結果沒想到現在是有一群人6030人他是話外之地他被排除在外那即便你再拿更多的法條出來解釋也於事無補啊他們就會認為是說他們就被排除在外他們沒有公平啊所以您的態度剛剛有講到是要一體適用是嗎"},{"start":5204.071,"end":5204.211,"text":"能夠做檢討"},{"start":5238.902,"end":5239.102,"text":"政務部長"},{"start":5254.651,"end":5261.734,"text":"好部長好來部長我想在你之前歷任教育部長當中杜政聖可以說是我們認為政治性格是最強烈的而且他爭議的非常的大我們回想過去他所對於教育做的政策當中大概就是他把台灣的地圖倒過來看監除非常大的一個本土化那我必須要說你過去對我們的印象來說也是政治立場非常鮮明的那我覺得這是你個人的政治理念"},{"start":5281.641,"end":5282.001,"text":"教育部長鄭英耀"},{"start":5304.309,"end":5328.874,"text":"我想身為一個教育人跟委員報告我只關心台灣的教育怎麼更好然後怎麼樣從專業我一直從過去一路以來在談教育的時候在談人才培育只有從專業我也特別在這一次在上個禮拜在跟我們師處聽這個業務簡報的時候所有的東西一定要找對的人然後回到專業"},{"start":5330.535,"end":5348.295,"text":"我希望部長就是能夠是如此的就是以教育為一個本業不要有太多政治的一個立場為什麼呢因為就誠如剛剛侯孟凱委員提到的當初的卡管案真的是讓我們的高教受到非常嚴重的傷害那部長你是有百分之百願意捍衛大學的自主"},{"start":5349.397,"end":5367.966,"text":"你絕對是捍衛大學的自主因為非常的簡單因為我們在2018年7月的時候曾經有14個那時候是現任的公立大學成立了全國大學自主聯盟他們願意站出來痛批教育部來破壞大學自主所以很多人願意站出來聲援管中你"},{"start":5368.826,"end":5382.332,"text":"所以這件事情呢其實我必須要說剛剛洪孟凱特別提到的周竺英他也是我政大的學姐所以你也是我政大的學長他是在幫你他在幫你你雖然說你不負記憶但是他只是告訴你說你當年沒有站出來但是你私下還是認為這個教育部這樣的一個涉入大學是不對的所以你應該謝謝他嘛對不對部長"},{"start":5393.925,"end":5415.09,"text":"大學很重要的就是大家能夠自由的分享許多對於教育的理念我不會問你如果你當年是教育部長會不會比較好我還是強調一貫的做法教育不應該涉入人格政治大學要絕對的制住你來自大學你應該很清楚這樣的概念我們會希望你能夠一柄出眾這樣可以做得到吧"},{"start":5416.335,"end":5442.787,"text":"這是我的承諾這是你的承諾很好我們接下來開始討論一下大家非常關切的一個雙語教育因為我們的賴總統他是目標是在2030年時候呢他要讓台灣變成雙語的國家那他也花了100億但是呢部長你也知道嘛雙語的是亂象重生越生再到但是賴總統還是質疑這個他的個性是非常的關心非常的new那你在中山大學是非常配合政府的雙語的政策"},{"start":5444.028,"end":5444.77,"text":"那你真的認為2030台灣可以變成雙語國家嗎?"},{"start":5449.96,"end":5478.805,"text":"我覺得議員的一個學習特別要成為一個官方的議員他不是那麼容易所以2030年我覺得在整個政策就是說如何讓我們的新世代年輕人能夠有國際這個直接能夠跟國際接軌的這些不管從產業或者移動的能力我想那個方向是是正確的但是他變成2030年我也同意主席所講你我我們都很清楚他可能要有"},{"start":5479.505,"end":5491.91,"text":"而更長的一個時間但是從現在開始做如果他要走30年那現在不做你未來還是得要30年2030年到距離現在只有五六年的時間所以不要把這個時間掐在2030年因為目前來說的話"},{"start":5498.212,"end":5514.966,"text":"真的是部長你應該很清楚太多學者專家包括高教包括去外語學院包括英文系的這樣的一個背景出身的人他說真的是這麼樣的一個政策啊政策完全沒有經過思考完全是做出非常到著火入魔而且雙語教育真的會成為國王的新衣啊"},{"start":5518.109,"end":5522.011,"text":"然後呢我也很驚訝的目前為止我們去年9月這個賴總統特別表示他是執行出了問題要形成國家團隊用更包容的方式來推動雙語教育我真的是聽不太懂請問部長你是未來的執行單位什麼叫做更包容的方法來推廣雙語教育你可不可以幫我解釋一下"},{"start":5541.186,"end":5541.226,"text":"副部長"},{"start":5556.346,"end":5556.366,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":5576.98,"end":5601.231,"text":"本土語言之三項課程之外的其他的領域你還告訴我們要落實中小學才全英語的教課你這個16月所講的要用英語教藝術英語教體育英語教數學有可能嗎部長我們現在距離2030年只剩下6年的時間你認為我們現在有辦法做到這一些事情嗎如果沒有辦法你是執行者你要給賴總統什麼樣的建議啊"},{"start":5603.103,"end":5615.214,"text":"我想謝謝委員的一個關心大家都肯定雙贏的一個教育在人才培育是重要的但是我也同意我們怎麼樣針對過去的一個政策做滾動式的修正這個2030年看起來以現在來看它確實包含失資或者偏城鄉的一個它是有落差的它是有問題的它根本做不到而且部長你剛點出來的失資"},{"start":5629.687,"end":5634.652,"text":"77%的縣市根本就是本國的獅子不一樣嘛然後呢你知道最大的一個問題是什麼因為我們雙語政策在108課綱上路之後才中間跳出來了配合那時候行政院長特別提到的他根本不在我們的課綱的規劃的表定的規劃上面嘛你突然冒出來你卻以既有的十年大計的這個課綱當中你怎麼樣來落實你怎麼跟課綱來做一個並存"},{"start":5654.13,"end":5669.201,"text":"我覺得這是個很大的問題而且我想在場的人都知道永遠要教育部比補貼人力私自部主英語教育是你師父領進門學生要有十足的動機不要動不動有老師教有課程牌你再去學英文這是永遠不夠部長你同意吧"},{"start":5670.922,"end":5695.731,"text":"那目前我們整個教育的一個現場裏面根本沒有讓孩子可以有自主學習目前有那麼多的平台他可以自主去學習這點還是沒有辦法做到我們有很多輔助的工具就是整個課程的一個教法完全沒有辦法而且呢你看你現在把這個政大我還特別給你提到政大中正很多頂大的他的英英檢的畢業門檻都取消這是大學裏面自己做決定的但是他們一向的認為說終極檢定完全不妨礙成為頂大學生該具備的"},{"start":5700.733,"end":5700.893,"text":"部長,我說得對嗎?"},{"start":5719.81,"end":5719.99,"text":"永遠怎麼補永遠怎麼貼是不夠的"},{"start":5747.805,"end":5754.287,"text":"孩子學習的動機給他一個東西他就有辦法好好的發展現在我們的教育系統完全沒有這一套你同意嗎"},{"start":5755.947,"end":5784.767,"text":"應該說我們來努力我們也看到地方政府確實在教師徵是出現了一些我們不希望的一個這個教師徵選的一個方式本來就是部長我跟你說了為了各大學裡面也常常都是這樣的連像教職人員為了配合教育部的這種什麼雙語然後要讓他們的卓越計畫可以寫得很好深耕計畫寫得好還跟你報告所有的這個教職員工說實在的英語畢業都比一般人來得更容易進去為什麼因為他都有英文門檻"},{"start":5785.487,"end":5785.507,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":5806.776,"end":5825.418,"text":"這個是你最快時間能夠了解目前英語雙語教育政策最好我還特別給你打包票2030年賴總統的雙語教育絕對沒有辦法達到因為只有6年的時間你有太多事情要補足了最後我想我要就較於你剛剛所提到的大家都會關心陸生來台因為我自己在大學教書我很清楚"},{"start":5826.679,"end":5831.522,"text":"這個也的確是你在書面報告當中你沒有提到有關陸生的這個部分你剛才已經承認這可能是你們太忙疏失了但我要告訴部長一個數據112年這個陸生學士班已經快接近清零的階段了我們現在從頭到尾加在一起說實在的"},{"start":5847.01,"end":5869.116,"text":"這個連續四年停招你如果要在明年開放的話我覺得還有一大段路的要走因為整個學士班而且目前為止研修生大概只剩下2500人520之後可能會更加的慘烈這可能要拿出非常多的一個策略跟一個方法而且我自己在大學裡面我說實在我看到我的研究生其實來自一些大陸的我根本不管他是來自哪裡可是成果相當的不錯"},{"start":5870.896,"end":5875.17,"text":"但是我要找他當研究助理想要付獎學金都沒有機會那是因為我們的政策部長你覺得這樣公平嗎"},{"start":5878.998,"end":5906.859,"text":"跟委員報告事實上我們現在是可以擔任學校的也可以領獎學金也可以擔任我是覺得像學校的公讀這些東西我覺得是不要去管目前是被允許的我們有很多地方是跟一般的港澳學生比起來其實陸生他們一些條件上還是會被限縮的這還是有被限縮的我沒有特別幫他們講但是我覺得用人為財學生有意願到台灣來做一個學習應該給他更公平的機會因為我自己說要準時所以我一定要"},{"start":5907.259,"end":5919.034,"text":"問快一點喔然後呢最重要是兩岸高教部長你也知道高教的交流是非常的重要的但是呢2021年清大的清華海峽研究院的被嚴查那個時候呢"},{"start":5920.049,"end":5923.611,"text":"現在的這個國客會的主委吳承文就是當年清大的副校長他那個時候就完全覺得目前講起來還是覺得委屈啊因為被抹紅嘛被認為到現在這個寒蟬相應目前為止還是有那目前為止呢一個月來根本不到一個學者他們認為官方卡得很兇我只問最後一句話目前來說的話鄭部長你的態度你會用滲透跟統戰的觀點來看待兩岸的學術交流嗎"},{"start":5948.015,"end":5950.938,"text":"我們都很清楚學術就在專業上來做一個討論可是現在完完全全變一個非常單純的一個事件只要跟對岸有任何的一個關聯度的話大家就用非常多的不同的方法"},{"start":5972.819,"end":5974.06,"text":"謝謝委員的一個指教我想這個是方向是不用質疑的好 謝謝"},{"start":6017.418,"end":6019.961,"text":"好,接下來我們請丁倩琦委員好,謝謝張偉,我們有請鄭部長好,我們請鄭部長"},{"start":6039.416,"end":6065.267,"text":"部長您好首先恭喜您今天是您第一次到立法院來備詢我是國民黨的立法委員林倩琦首先歡迎你也希望你能夠在未來的日子裡面來幫助我們來協助我們解決目前整個教育界所面臨的困境並加以檢視調整然後將一些東西拉回正軌"},{"start":6067.228,"end":6084.909,"text":"接下來我有五點的看法與建議這個是我今天的主軸也是未來在其中有四點都是賴總統的政見第一點是我這邊所提出來的很重要的一點這個是我這邊本席這邊提出來的"},{"start":6087.062,"end":6104.93,"text":"您上回來拜會的時候我們其實也討論過一些教育相關的這個問題所以目前在這個即職教育這個部分我這邊提出一個創造並推動16年即職國民教育的這樣一個概念那這個概念是來自於"},{"start":6105.41,"end":6121.961,"text":"我們在最近的這個私校的倒閉喔那像骨牌效應一樣的這個發生那裡面當然有很多問題啦我們被告知都是少子化的一個衝擊然後在地就學其實也產生一些危機那很重要一點就是在"},{"start":6122.862,"end":6149.482,"text":"很多計職院校或者是某一些學校在基本上從一進入這個學校就背負了就學貸款的起點那我這個部分想要透過政策來引導學生的一個適性發展跟為產業的人才來做培育所以這邊目前我們的氛圍就是失教的這個倒閉潮很像骨牌效應但是我們現在看到的就是該倒的就讓他倒"},{"start":6150.222,"end":6179.014,"text":"然後還有一個輔導這個輔導機制啊那個這輔了就導所以那個我們知道這個專案輔導學校啊輔導就導啊該導就讓他導那這種氛圍變成善心人士想要給予跟投入跟救某一些學校那會變成被禿鷹式的看待那感覺上好像其他人都很無能那只有我們制定政策就必須一直往前衝一直往前走"},{"start":6180.647,"end":6196.985,"text":"這個部分我覺得對許多學校來講是有點不太恰當而且不太公平所以我這邊提出幾點就是少子化的衝擊其實我們已經看到很久了那到底怎麼處理這個部分怎麼處理少子化的衝擊"},{"start":6201.038,"end":6215.479,"text":"我們在過去的政策裡面把這個武專的消除結果變成是優質的武專被迫減班然後劣質的高職被升格成武專那很多的這個武專就變成某一些"},{"start":6216.536,"end":6235.845,"text":"議席大專院校感覺上劣幣驅逐良幣那這個部分其實有很多的不公義那接下來呢如果繼續少子化下去再不用20年那我想您這邊也知道每個人都可以念國立大學那我們全面的崩壞大概也是值日可待的"},{"start":6236.445,"end":6248.356,"text":"所以這個部分我們可不可以更積極一點那我這邊提出來就是讓我們的計職院校能夠以國民教育的方式做延伸那過去是怎麼回事呢就是計職院校原本的12年的國民基本教育是兩個階段那前九年呢是強迫入學那後三年是"},{"start":6260.729,"end":6275.749,"text":"的中等高等中學教育志願非強迫式的入學那高中職畢業之後能再增加第三階段就是這個是我的方法我們就增加四年計職教育用鼓勵入學的方式"},{"start":6276.63,"end":6303.017,"text":"然後也可以減少學生的負擔透過價格來引導學生然後讓學生透過技職教育真的能夠為台灣的產業儲備一些人才所以舊技職就等於舊產業舊產業就救了台灣所以透過技職的國民義務教育讓價格引導學生的分流讓人才為產業"},{"start":6307.062,"end":6331.648,"text":"來做累積在教育的這個部分那私校也可以藉由這個潮流來用順勢的方式得以留存那倒閉潮可以停止一些那這是我想我在先前就已經跟這個部長有提到的那今天提出一些具體的方法那接下來呢幾個就是賴總統的這個政見"},{"start":6342.446,"end":6353.893,"text":"您這邊提到開放學位陸生來台而且非常的精準談到了學位生那這邊學位生的部分我這邊也提出了一些說明跟建議"},{"start":6355.694,"end":6370.824,"text":"我們知道2020年其實因為疫情的關係那台灣五年來在陸生這個部分大概就不太就沒有再有連結所以我這邊談的其實很簡單我們要跨出這一步做就對了那我提出了五個具體的步驟"},{"start":6372.264,"end":6399.306,"text":"第一個就是請教育部先核定各大學的入生招生名額這是教育部可以做的第二個部分就對入生公告招生簡章這很具體第三個讓入生向學校提出入學申請那第四步這個部分如果能夠做成呢接下來我們就通過學校的篩選公告入取的名額跟名單"},{"start":6400.458,"end":6423.151,"text":"好那這四部結束之後呢就輪到陸委會來接手了那陸委會我們的這個邱淳正主委在金門大學那他應該有很多的經驗跟金大金門大學還有廈門大學廈大合作的經驗那這些是邱委員對不起邱主委的專業"},{"start":6424.632,"end":6448.023,"text":"我相信那在教育部跟陸委會的這個聯合之下那陸生來台而且學衛生來台應該是非常具體而且可以在您任內完成的這邊我替您把這個部分爬梳跟整理出來好那這個是陸生來台的部分那我們期待教育部能夠做到這一點那其實這個部分也可以解決很多現在"},{"start":6449.417,"end":6463.892,"text":"台灣學校的高校的一個困境所以當我們開放對岸的學業班的招生那其實學士生可以救私校博碩士生可以救公立學校"},{"start":6465.549,"end":6482.176,"text":"公立學校的研究能量是非常重要的如同剛才有幾位委員談到所以如果我們能夠善用陸生那麼就如同部長所講的讓兩岸的年輕人有更多健康互動的機會那我們善用陸生也對他們公平以待"},{"start":6483.081,"end":6505.946,"text":"我相信大家在一個尊重的原則之下都會有這個誠意讓我們彼此的學生能夠在我們所創造的平台有健康的交流所以這是一個多贏的局面這個是開放學衛生尤其是陸生這個部分我給教育部的具體建議接下來是體育運動發展部這個也是"},{"start":6511.645,"end":6530.702,"text":"內總統的政見而且兩個黨都已經有共識那我相信這一點如果在我們在更進一步而且很誠意的推動下我想這是一個共識極高的一個政策那我期待在您的任內能夠幫內總統把這個政策能夠創造跟完成"},{"start":6535.686,"end":6539.968,"text":"接下來有幾位委員做個提議可不可以請教育部也是您這邊所講的我們可不可以召開第9屆的全國教育會議從2010年上一屆"},{"start":6551.133,"end":6569.251,"text":"的這個全國教育會議舉辦完了之後呢到現在已經有14年沒有開了那在您這個賴總統上任就是已經成為準總統然後到真正就職之間那好多的教團都期待"},{"start":6569.872,"end":6599.872,"text":"﹚"},{"start":6602.413,"end":6625.446,"text":"最後一點您這邊其實提到培養前瞻的技術以及國際移動的人才我非常認同這一點前瞻技術的一個重點您這邊談到AI當然台灣本身就已經有這樣子的一個條件再加上如果您在這個技術層面在語言的技術層面能夠"},{"start":6626.667,"end":6627.568,"text":"在幾個階層怎麼的做法所以AI"},{"start":6652.906,"end":6674.6,"text":"進來您這邊說是我們全球民主的一個供應鏈那在這個平台上AI應該可以透過我們來推到全世界但是很重要的是那麼您要怎麼樣培養量子電腦機器人精準醫療方面的前瞻性人才然後如何培養國內的人才這點是非常重要的"},{"start":6675.12,"end":6686.591,"text":"因為我們知道很多人對於這個國際人才的這個部分有很多的想法那我們如何透過這樣子的一個政策"},{"start":6687.577,"end":6687.977,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":6717.71,"end":6738.771,"text":"實驗的過程當中有很多需要處理跟解決的問題所以請把視野拉回來積極專業並利用專案來全力培育國內的人才那以上幾點是我對鄭部長所領導的教育部未來的一些建議跟看法"},{"start":6739.492,"end":6757.952,"text":"我期待在您的任內尤其是高教出身的您能夠從很高的視野而且還當過校長我相信您一定能夠從你的視野把我們各階層的教育帶到一個正軌讓我們對教育再次充滿希望跟期待謝謝部長"},{"start":6759.687,"end":6760.488,"text":"好,接下來我們請葉元芝委員"},{"start":6797.29,"end":6797.994,"text":"麻煩請教育部長謝謝好請鄭部長"},{"start":6806.124,"end":6831.955,"text":"委員好部長好第一次見面因為教育部的業務非常龐雜千頭萬緒每一項都非常重要所以今天只有12分鐘可能也沒辦法問太細那就針對部長您自己提到的幾個優先順序要做來跟您請教第一個放在你的首位的就是您希望在兩岸平等尊嚴情況之下讓大陸學會生來台但是非常遺憾在你們的業務報告裡面完全沒有看到這個部分"},{"start":6832.515,"end":6841.423,"text":"不知道是故意的是不是最近有變化還是有受到賴總統壓力還是怎麼樣否則為什麼之前受訪提到這個是第一件事情但是現在業務報告卻沒有提到謝謝委員的一個關心我想這是我個人的一個疏忽所以是疏忽不是說受到壓力所以不能講所以還是要推就對了那現在具體來說要怎麼開訪"},{"start":6860.373,"end":6881.479,"text":"我們現在事實上以目前的辦法因為我們也知道在COVID之前連續有三四年確實是兩岸就變成這個學衛生就騎乘上是怎樣騎乘上騎乘我們希望說學衛生做博士班大概在明年二月的這一個檢張出來五月就可以決定然後"},{"start":6882.299,"end":6910.605,"text":"五月決定所以你現在是會有名額限制嗎還是讓各大學自己開名額我們現在目前法令都有的各校的一個招生年度的一個招生額度的2%就是用原來的額度的規定而且兩邊也都有一個招生的一個這個合作的一個那就是說明年就要開始開放招生嘛其人上是這樣然後第二個大家非常關心的是說因為我們現在對陸生有一個三線六部嘛"},{"start":6911.045,"end":6939.097,"text":"比如說不能夠有獎權金不能打工等等那如果在尊嚴平等情況之下因為我們對一般的外籍紳士沒有這樣的規定有考慮要開放這三線六部其中的部分的一些限制嗎謝謝委員的關心事實上我們目前已經都在這個部分獎學金鼓勵學校或者地方政府去募款然後提供獎學金甚至這一個他也可以當TARA沒有我知道我現在是講"},{"start":6940.337,"end":6941.077,"text":"打工打工打工"},{"start":6968.752,"end":6984.112,"text":"獎學金獎學金是有的所以獎學金現在三線六部裏面有一個沒獎學金這個要開放是我們是鼓勵學校是這一個學生的一個學習他的一個表現提供獎學金這個我們是支持的所以三線六部"},{"start":6985.458,"end":7002.453,"text":"我們事實上是有一些在調整報告在調整哪一個要調整?跟委員報告從今年2月1號開始陸森也全面這個納入這個健保我想這個部分都是展現我們希望我剛跟你講了啦就是說我們不要一直回圈好不好部長第一次見面不要這樣子不要一直回圈我講的是說他們不見得要打工也不見得要現在是一個平等問題嘛陸森來這邊"},{"start":7010.64,"end":7027.292,"text":"那他跟比如說越南籍的或其他的新南向的學生就感覺不一樣嘛你有這個限制我沒有這個或我有這個限制你沒這個限制感覺好像我在這邊就是被當作異類對待嘛我現在講的是這件事情啦那有沒有考慮到說針對剛剛講的問題有有要去調整有沒有我想這一個部分我再來進一步了解然後你再進一步了解好不好所以現在沒有沒有想法就對了"},{"start":7037.96,"end":7055.934,"text":"對不起我還確實有一些業務還沒有還沒有很了解第二個那既然部長到這邊來就是沒有很了解業務但我就針對我們之前有關心的還有一些家長老師的反應的意見來跟你請教了因為我在你的報告裡面有提到有看到你準備要著手118課綱的研擬了那108課綱已經實施到現在已經五六年的時間不知道部長您滿意這個執行結果嗎"},{"start":7068.294,"end":7080.982,"text":"應該是這麼講 那個大方向是沒有問題的大方向沒問題啦 我現在問的是執行結果因為108課綱我幾個字來形容啦理想很豐滿 現實很骨感啦所以我現在問你的執行 你滿意嗎應該說我們部落是需要微調哪一部分需要微調就是說我們在98課綱的時候在科技數量這部分到108往事用融入造型的"},{"start":7101.448,"end":7125.36,"text":"你講的是要增加AI我講的是執行狀況啦執行狀況這樣好不好不然部長我來直接講好不好我來反映一下家長跟學生心聲好嗎第一個因為108課剛剛是把必修少四分之一增加學科嘛學科沒有考試學科很多都是用報告田野調查寫一個學術論文那你現在是用碩士學生的標準去看待這些國中高中學生啊"},{"start":7126.741,"end":7149.961,"text":"所以這個給他們帶來非常大的壓力那很多學生報告有時候也寫不太出來所以用CHAP GPT不然就是用其他方式來處理這沒有辦法達到你原本想要的目標第二個就是說因為我們的很多學科的時數變少所以我們現在知識變得很破碎然後我們的基礎知識也不夠現在很多大學的老師跟我們反映"},{"start":7150.441,"end":7168.154,"text":"比如說他可能是我看到你有一個目標是希望能夠增加我們前瞻技術人才嘛增加前瞻技術人才當然需要很扎實的基礎的知識來做支撐可是這些學生108課高學生到大學之後大學必須要重新教比如說普通物理或微積分為什麼"},{"start":7169.375,"end":7174.377,"text":"因為高中你把人家學科的時數減少了嘛所以這個都是一個非常大的問題啊然後對於老師而言老師的壓力也變大因為你現在要他們自己要開選修課那這家選修課選修課他要花更多的時間來備課然後他要改很多這個所謂碩士論文級的這些高中生的報告"},{"start":7191.124,"end":7205.63,"text":"可是他時數沒有減少但他壓力增加所以老師的壓力也非常大所以我們當然是可以認同說108課綱他所謂的我們要多元我們要增加選修讓學生探索可是實際的執行狀況就出現很大的落差"},{"start":7208.391,"end":7230.156,"text":"這就是說給部長參考嘛你現在要做118課綱的時候這個問題是必須要面臨要解決的然後再來就是大家比如說舉很多課程比如歷史課歷史現在很多學生讀歷史覺得很無聊啊因為歷史現在因為他的那個時數變得很少所以變得非常破碎他在讀歷史的時候他只記年份跟發生什麼事情但整體來說沒有脈絡"},{"start":7231.98,"end":7251.099,"text":"所以這個都會讓他他產生對歷史的興趣的減少好不好這個108課剛我剛講那幾件問題幾件事情我希望部長你之後可以瞭解一下那你也可以看之前那個三一週刊有做一個調查現在我們要讀私立高中私立國中的學生暴增現在已經到15%要讀私立國中的這個是不是一個"},{"start":7257.065,"end":7280.818,"text":"往上的趨勢那不然你要了解一下為什麼會出現這個情形嗎除了108課綱的問題之外校園安全啊你現在在公立國中公立國中有的學生被記十字大過都無所謂啊你現在校規對學生沒有辦法帶來任何的規範啊學生覺得說被記大過好給你記啊那老師覺得說對啊我記你十字大過二十字大過你也不關痛癢我記我也懶得記啦"},{"start":7282.762,"end":7289.549,"text":"所以校園安全本身也出現問題啊不然我不知道說你最近剛上任有沒有瞭解這些情形有嗎"},{"start":7293.45,"end":7319.174,"text":"謝謝委員的關心 我想校園的一個安全確實不是不只校園安全啦 印巴克綱整個整體的問題印巴克綱事實上我從過去的一個工作的一個經驗當然我有一定程度的理解 譬如說剛才委員所提到的這個在數學物理對 你有沒有發現說我們到了大學我們要重新把高中應該教的物理 化學為積分再繳一遍有沒有"},{"start":7319.494,"end":7339.821,"text":"我們看到有一些單元確實我們看到這個大學利用這個暑假的之前有一些補救的這些大學的一些對嘛就是108課剛實施之後我們大學還要補救嘛這就是問題所在的嘛不過我想108課剛基本上他就強調自主協議對人探索剛剛委員也提到現在理想很豐滿"},{"start":7343.062,"end":7356.765,"text":"現實很骨感所以我現在問的是執行的狀況我想我們會問再來就是雙語教育啦現在那個我們現在政府要推2030雙語教育嘛2024年說雙語的師資到6000名現在幾名了2024說要到6000位雙語教師現在幾位了"},{"start":7371.462,"end":7388.792,"text":"跟委員報告我們目前是有這個四千四千多位將近五千有辦法到六千位嗎一直在努力繼續努力啦我跟部長報告很多國小的家長跟我反映啊國小的英文不知道在上什麼"},{"start":7390.358,"end":7413.668,"text":"說在某一個國小五年級找一個英語老師找一個老師用全英文方式上自然課上的時候所有的學生都聽不懂完全對自然失去興趣一個月後老師先用英文教一遍之後用中文再教一遍大家中文的時候就聽了再一個月放棄英文教學直接用中文現在雙語教育在國小的實施也遇到了非常多的問題"},{"start":7415.605,"end":7431.59,"text":"然後像譬如說他因為他們也沒有其他的教材他們就背課文背課文在國小的時候課文背得很厲害所以有95分可是以這樣的英文能力呢他連英文過去式都不知道到了國中才發現原來有英文過去式"},{"start":7432.597,"end":7458.267,"text":"所以國小的雙語教育推動也面臨到一樣的狀況我們當然都希望大家英文可以好啊可是在推動過程當中不了解現實就出現了很大的落差那我剛剛講的幾件事情都是很多家長跟老師的反應啊因為我們知道部長你才剛上來而且你高教的嘛你也不是國民教育這些希望說部長可以了解一下針對未來這些政策看看是要修正因為新的部長上任總是有新的想法嘛好不好好 謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":7466.001,"end":7478.547,"text":"好謝謝部長請回座好本席現在先宣布我們在吳佩儀委員質詢完畢之後我們就休息5分鐘好那接下來我們請登記第7號的郭育晴委員謝謝主席有請部長來我們請部長"},{"start":7495.066,"end":7506.895,"text":"委員好部長辛苦了上個禮拜五其實我們就已經拿到教育部給我們的這個報告了那裡頭我大概也看了一下其實我們涵蓋的這個討論的部分其實非常非常的廣"},{"start":7507.691,"end":7528.016,"text":"不管是從學齡前一直到國高中大學甚至還有原民教育然後還有這個首領的教育就是針對這個長者的部分那還包含我們這個學生輔導還有很多的一個校園安全的一些問題其實我們都寫在報告當中在這裡要給教育部一個肯定"},{"start":7531.977,"end":7542.86,"text":"拜託教育部將來可以在我們的這個整體的台灣的教育部分我們能夠達到一定的目標好那我先來看一下第一張我想開開案這是我第8次站在這個地方那可能部長"},{"start":7551.103,"end":7579.458,"text":"回顧一下就是過去到現在我總共質詢了7次針對凱凱案的部分從3月11日媒體報導的凱凱案全國嘩然那也震驚了全台灣這是一個全台灣人的痛那一直到3月18日在我們的這個衛福部的部分我也去質詢了那在3月21日當很多人都以為是要針對衛福部的時候其實我們發現教育部也是我們俄福聯盟的主管機關之一"},{"start":7579.958,"end":7607.482,"text":"所以我也提出了一些質詢那包含林騰角次長他也特別說到如果最重他其實是可以廢止這個聯盟的設立好到3月28號我們的這個林次長他也說應該要強化財團法人法的一個管理那另外在4月10號林明裕次長因為在3月29號的時候而福聯盟提出了一個書面報告但這份報告從頭到尾看了之後"},{"start":7608.522,"end":7632.527,"text":"發現有報告跟沒報告是一樣的他還在預告2024年他們今年的支出會短缺還短缺了九千七百多萬二月份的時候他們用九千八百萬去買了臺中的不動產然後這份報告裡面就說他缺錢了好那當時的次長呢看到我們這份報告的時候他也說他看不出來F聯盟他有檢討的決心"},{"start":7634.507,"end":7646.033,"text":"4月18日我再次的質詢這是劉司長他說基本上他們的所有的包含大眾的一個捐款應該要用於處理以及照顧"},{"start":7647.645,"end":7664.024,"text":"而服聯盟應該要有的這個業務範圍之內到了5月2號我質詢了潘部長那5月13號潘部長有說不動產的購置來自捐款的餘額那這個餘額的部分"},{"start":7665.481,"end":7677.36,"text":"我今天就針對5月13日的這個質詢我來提出我個人的一些疑問也想請教一下我們的部長的部分好 我們看到往下一張"},{"start":7680.562,"end":7699.896,"text":"當兒福聯盟給教育部的一個報告也就是在109年的報告是在看他們108年的所有的支出的這個現金的流量表的部分其實已經看到他們用的節約款項當中的3.7億購置完成但是他只提列了2.24億"},{"start":7701.917,"end":7726.194,"text":"他另外的1.55億他放在109年當中那我想這個部分其實有一些些很大的疑慮我不曉得教育部為什麼沒有看出來我不是學會計出身但是我跟我的辦公室討論之後發現他們有兩個目的第一個目的是他要讓他的業務支出達到所謂的"},{"start":7726.934,"end":7755.885,"text":"所得稅法當中針對非盈利財團法人他的章程目的要達到六成他可以免稅所以他把3.7億拆成兩年但是他給教育部的報告當中他說他在108年購置3.7億的不動產就已經3.7億全部完成但為什麼在109年也就是說教育部會在110年的時候才看到他在109年的時候他又"},{"start":7756.505,"end":7780.332,"text":"提列了一個叫做1.55億那他還可以除了免稅以外達到六成的業務支出他還可以再提列準備金這個是他們的目的在這個部分我其實有非常大的一個質疑而當時在109年蓋章的董事長就叫做林志佳他要不要為這份"},{"start":7781.132,"end":7786.973,"text":"很讓人匪夷所思的財報做出一個說明在這裡我想請教一下部長"},{"start":7789.926,"end":7810.399,"text":"我想剛才委員所關心的這個兒福包括許多的一些本來這個單位的一個成立這個基金會成立就是希望能夠關照我們體制內透過民間的一個捐贈然後整個社區的社會的一個支援能夠關照我們這個兒童更多的一些"},{"start":7811.7,"end":7826.846,"text":"但顯然他們在財務金流的部分其實是不清楚的甚至是他是為了作帳而作帳要達到60%的業務支出才能夠得到所謂的免稅的一個條件在這個部分我非常的質疑因為2.24億再加上109年列出來的1.55億兩個加起來剛剛好就是3.7億多"},{"start":7834.062,"end":7857.578,"text":"所以他已經把3.7億多分成兩年去墊高他達到六成的業務支出這個部分就財團法人法其實這個財報是非常有問題我是一個不是學經濟不是學財務不是學會計出身的我都已經看到這個問題為什麼我們的教育部看不到呢這個跟委員報告是不是能夠請這個理事長來補充說明好"},{"start":7861.873,"end":7864.995,"text":"所以只要他們說他們專業你們就給過是這樣嗎?"},{"start":7883.06,"end":7909.619,"text":"這個是會計專業我們本身是做行政面還有依照財團法人法相關的規定在財團法人法當中就包含這一部分所以我們是不是要更嚴格的來監督他們所提供的財報這個事後因為今天時間有限這個事後麻煩給我們一個說法因為我不想要再一直質詢凱凱案的部分我們希望教育部成為他的財團法人法當中的主管機關"},{"start":7910.72,"end":7925.58,"text":"沒有針對他們的高層董事的部分做出懲處也就算了開開案成了嗎不可以成這是對全民的一個交代不是只有給我們辦公室一個交代我希望教育部硬起來可以嗎"},{"start":7926.94,"end":7948.204,"text":"好那今天時間的關係第二個部分我想剛剛其實有很多位委員特別有提到所謂的現在108課綱的一些問題喔那我想我是第一個在108課綱當中提到學習歷程檔案是不是可以在將來他們升學的比例上的調整這個比例是不是可以往下降"},{"start":7948.524,"end":7951.527,"text":"學生和學生家長們可以稍微喘口氣。我們來看一下這個報告的部分。學習歷程檔案我們發現了很多學生他們在學習歷程檔案的製作上面"},{"start":7964.238,"end":7969.779,"text":"由15.6%他會去有問題請教班級導師9.1%他會請教科任老師3.5%會請教輔導老師而整個整體他們因為108課綱當中的學習歷程檔案會去求助於校方的只佔了28.2%其他71.8%的孩子在不知道怎麼寫學習歷程檔案的時候"},{"start":7993.924,"end":8021.778,"text":"包括補習班也是他們要求助的管道我想這針對所謂的我們利益良好的學習歷程檔案來講這的確在中間在實施上也出現了很多很多的問題那我想在這個部分我們是不是可以請教育部來好好的演繹一下在學習歷程檔案當中我們讓孩子能夠真正的寫下"},{"start":8022.418,"end":8041.309,"text":"他們心目當中他們將來進了大學將來可能大學畢業之後他們想要的一個志向這個比任何事情都還要來的更重要因為我們發現有很多的孩子就算他從高一上下學期每一個學期都在寫學期歷程檔案的時候其實到了高三他們會發現他們還是很焦慮"},{"start":8043.991,"end":8064.726,"text":"因為我們很多的學系跟他想要的學習歷程檔案當中他將來對於職業或將來對於他的興趣其實他是會有一些背離的一個狀況這個部分我們是不是可以在比例上來做調整我不是說不要學習歷程檔案而是在比例上我們來做調整可以嗎我想謝謝委員的指正我們學習歷程檔案基本上就是一個"},{"start":8074.121,"end":8078.664,"text":"但他占了升學的比例也就是說他的學測成績要到某一個程度"},{"start":8104.301,"end":8117.525,"text":"之前就有很多的教授他們也說60%的教授說我不知道這個學習歷程檔案到底是這個學生寫的還是學生家長寫的還是他是外面補習班寫的我不認識這個孩子啊"},{"start":8120.006,"end":8120.286,"text":"謝謝我們會來努力"},{"start":8144.986,"end":8170.075,"text":"最後一點時間我們來看一下我們的公立幼兒園在今年也就是上個禮拜其實5月除了是報稅以外當然也有很多的士林的孩子的家長們他們要開始抽公立的幼兒園但是他們就說了明明就是少子化但是公立的我永遠都抽不到怎麼這麼難抽我到底該怎麼辦"},{"start":8174.475,"end":8192.183,"text":"這個部分是不是在整個所有我們要面對所謂的資源配置上的一個問題我舉個例子來講可能教育部這邊可能會說不會啊我們有很多的小學有閒置的教室閒置的教室空出來就可以當成這個公立幼兒園他們的一個空間了這不會有什麼配置上的問題"},{"start":8193.243,"end":8197.325,"text":"回過頭去想當有小學閒置的教室也就是說連小學都抽不滿連小學都招不滿了怎麼可能會期待還有幼兒園要來這邊抽公立的幼兒園呢我想這是"},{"start":8211.191,"end":8238.77,"text":"對的政策放在不對的地方這是資源上分配的一個不夠不夠妥善所以這個部分是不是我們的教育部這個地方可能也要在所謂的公立幼兒園跟準公幼的部分現在很多人一窩蜂的想要往準公幼去但是問題是公立幼兒園還是有人有需要但問題是還是進不去這個部分我們是不是也要往這個部分要來再好好的來想一想"},{"start":8241.043,"end":8254.215,"text":"議員的提醒,我想我們會來積極了解第一線上的一些這些問題來謀求改善還有另外就是學前的這個身上孩子他們的一個學就是學習的權益的一個問題然後我想現在的這個巡迴輔導師當中一個人要負擔24個孩子"},{"start":8260.981,"end":8261.441,"text":"謝謝兩位,那部長先請回座"},{"start":8294.926,"end":8298.808,"text":"好 我們接下來我們請葛如君委員謝謝主席 有請教育部鄭英耀部長好 請鄭部長"},{"start":8329.435,"end":8346.132,"text":"上週質詢文化部的時候我有提到有民眾向我們澄清巴黎文化奧運台灣館的主視覺跟Apple這家公司的emoji表情符號高度相似的當時文化部回答這個案子是沒有向Apple的法律部門申請使用權"},{"start":8347.733,"end":8362.199,"text":"結果前幾天我再度又接獲了設計學院的教師陳琴說這個主視覺疑似在未取得國際奧委會授權的情況之下使用了奧運五環的標誌而且可能做了一些有可能違反規定的一些修改"},{"start":8363.019,"end":8378.235,"text":"據瞭解這位教師寫信向總統府陳情陳情案件後來被轉到行政院又因為體育是教育部的主管事項所以又被轉到教育部來處理部長想請教一下你知不知道這件事奧運五環有沒有版權"},{"start":8381.335,"end":8397.576,"text":"跟委員報告這當然是有的是喔很好我們這個版權是非常重要智慧財產也是非常重要那這個案子呢我們有沒有向國際奧會申請授權使用奧運五環的標誌包含使用以及二創以及再設計有沒有申請"},{"start":8406.28,"end":8428.83,"text":"我想跟委員報告我們會請奧委會這一個來跟這一個大會裡面來接觸來接洽這一個版權的一些相關的問題我想我們台灣已經脫離這個制裁地域已經很長的時間了我們現在都非常重視這個設計原創根據現行奧林匹克憲章第一章跟第五章的規定奧林匹克五環是奧林匹克運動會的象徵國際奧會的專用標誌"},{"start":8431.411,"end":8450.793,"text":"未經國際奧委會特別許可任何團體或個人都不得將它用於廣告或者其他商業性的活動如果不是商業目的則必須是奧運會的主辦城市官方贊助商或授權商使用麻煩進一步了解我們目前使用這樣的一個設計或再設計或再修改"},{"start":8451.474,"end":8470.284,"text":"有沒有符合規定有沒有符合授權的機制否則呢這個案子對我們的國際形象會有重大的影響也會關乎未來中華奧會跟國際奧會之間未來的合作關係那我想接下來是不是能夠請這個部長還有這個跟文化部一起共同釐清這個授權使用的問題那後續的處理能不能將一週內將書面報告提供為本席"},{"start":8474.531,"end":8485.109,"text":"我想謝謝委員的提醒,確實只有奧委會,台灣的奧委會可以使用這一個五個圈環,那我們會跟文化部來進一步來瞭解"},{"start":8487.034,"end":8515.542,"text":"我想好的設計大家都歡迎但是在使用上面要符合文化以及符合制裁權的規範否則的話很可能會給大家帶來一些麻煩這都不是我們想看到接下來想請教一下部長有關數位教育的問題這幾天引起的話題蔡前總統在任期倒數的期間在臉書細數了8年內執政的成果結果在教育面向卻只提到了兩個大重點斑斑有冷氣深深用平板當然這是很好的政策但是這些主要都是花錢"},{"start":8516.502,"end":8531.898,"text":"花錢可能就有當然執行過程也很耗心力但是我想應該不會只有這個吧那引發了各界熱議對於數位教育的政策硬體資源的部件還有我們的軟體的增進或者甚至AI的導入到底是什麼"},{"start":8532.338,"end":8553.838,"text":"我們其實應該要有更宏觀更前瞻的思維那翻開我們的就今天的業務報告啦我當然要肯定教育部對於數學教育已經有明確的短期規劃包含我先前質詢的時候一再提到的AI使用指引在報告當中有明確的提到數學教學指引3.0預計將納入人工智慧使用風險生成是AI輔助教學的原則等等預計在10月"},{"start":8555.399,"end":8560.222,"text":"這是提出我也非常期待那我想接下來其實還不只是這些"},{"start":8585.319,"end":8585.399,"text":"主席"},{"start":8607.254,"end":8621.813,"text":"我想這個部分也是希望未來了解一下就是自研跟使用成熟的這些技術或者廠商的這些服務去finetune或再修改或再設計或再製作到底哪個好哪個不好我們之後未來再一起來研議那當然我想有這樣的精神還是很好的事"},{"start":8624.796,"end":8651.966,"text":"另外也提醒教育部教學現場的教跟學也是密不可分AI的使用指引目前比較是以老師來做教學的規範但是學生到底要怎麼樣做AI的使用原則其實目前是相對比較不清楚的請教一下部長教育部是否研議推出高中以下學生版的AI使用指引讓學生未來無論是在學習或者競賽我們之前有學生很會用AI結果參加比賽被記的小過"},{"start":8653.166,"end":8666.656,"text":"那甚至是未來入學考試上到底能不能用AI來重新修整他的文字內容能不能提出用AI化的話他提出了以後有沒有要做標注有沒有明確的AI使用原則可以運行教育部會不會提出呢在哪裡指引在哪裡學生用的喔"},{"start":8683.612,"end":8712.245,"text":"我們現在是國會殿堂最近我們拜託跟委員報告就是我們的學生的部分我們在3.0的地方會特別在所以就是10月還沒推出所以未來麻煩注意一下謝謝這真的是要快一點因為馬上升學季本席再次強調不光是給老師的教學指引學生真的也需要使用指引請教育部對此進行研議現在是5月份我是希望能夠快一點能不能3月至少有一個初步的結果"},{"start":8712.625,"end":8715.727,"text":"教育部長 目前大學入學的備審資料及學位論文的撰寫有沒有規範 有沒有明確的規範到底能不能用生成式的AI規範如何"},{"start":8739.377,"end":8744.64,"text":"這題應該很簡單阿馬上要那個學位考試了嘛大家能不能用AI寫論文阿這個當然是不行的確定嗎目前沒有規範但是有一些部長要確認喔這個這個講出來很嚴重喔跟委員報告大概用CHAT GPT去協助去許多資料的收集或者有一些這一個我請他幫我優化我的論文段落可不可以阿這當然是可以的"},{"start":8768.072,"end":8768.432,"text":"跟委員報告這個我會後"},{"start":8783.297,"end":8802.499,"text":"我都有一個AI的工作圈我們會把...盡快研議一下為什麼現在國際已經非常多在討論這個事情昨天出來的新聞Computer Science裡面的論文大概有17.5%都有AI參與的這個痕跡而且他未必有標注那到底我們的規範是什麼"},{"start":8804.12,"end":8832.768,"text":"到底是一個論文的合理使用生成式的AI比例是多少到底是30% 50% 60%還是90%教育部應該要來明確規範而且到底有沒有要標示像以前我們在網路上查資料以後都要放到reference最早期的時候沒有規定大家不一定放但是現在有了規定大家都要放可是AI的指引是完全沒有的我們沒有任何的規範還是APA格式有修正這個教育部能不能把這個相關的細節呢早一點公開讓大家知道"},{"start":8834.094,"end":8859.875,"text":"謝謝委員提醒我想涉及到這一個學術倫理的東西我們要這個加速來做我們真的不希望過了幾十年之後大家又忽然回來找說誰誰誰的論文是AI寫的那結果影響到這些人的這個選舉或被選舉權這都不是我們想要看到的那也提醒一下部長目前教育部沒有給予這個各大學官方認定的AI生成比對的工具這造成什麼問題呢第一線教室要用肉眼去審查"},{"start":8861.016,"end":8876.414,"text":"學生是不是有使用生成式AI的痕跡同時學生很可能也沒有相關的規範來告訴他能用不能用使得可能會違背了所謂的平權的精神家境比較好的學生用了付費版的GPT或者付費版的AI"},{"start":8876.874,"end":8902.251,"text":"他的東西做出來特別漂亮特別好看特別閱讀起來特別流暢結果呢免費版的東西做的就比較爛甚至現在開始有這種GPT的apps結果呢只有付費版的學生可以使用請教一下部長教育部有沒有可能迅速的提出AI生成比對工具的認證清單來供各大專院校參考使用讓教師擺脫用肉眼來看到底誰是人誰是AI能不能做到這件事"},{"start":8903.377,"end":8925.752,"text":"我們會透過這個工作群裡邊來請大專業校裡邊我們這個委員來看怎麼樣從專業裡邊更清楚來做一些規範我想AI真的是一直在變我想希望真的是希望教育部接下來有一個整個非常棒的團隊都希望能夠又是AI內閣我們趕快來做一些指引讓大家有跡可循"},{"start":8926.633,"end":8934.535,"text":"那再來呢我也要來談這個高教教學品質的擔憂因為我過去也在學校裡面根據監察院110年的調查109年全國大專院校的兼任教師超過4萬人近20年的漲幅高達56%有一個超級可怕的數據目前兼任跟專人的教師逼近1比1"},{"start":8947.279,"end":8972.588,"text":"而且過半以上的私立大專業院校兼任教師比重高達五成以上甚至有私立大專業院校有高達八成以上當然你從好處看你說我們有很多這個海納百川有很多的人才但是現在的招生人數逐年下降光112年度就有9800多位教師未獲續聘其中本來沒有本職沒有其他的工作只靠終點費維生的人就高達20%"},{"start":8974.108,"end":8984.676,"text":"教育部號稱今年幫公立大學兼任師資調漲終點費30年來第一次調整我們來看一下日間從每小時教授等級995變1035我們來看最多的講師其實就是兼任講師725塊調到755塊增加30塊錢"},{"start":8993.542,"end":9005.491,"text":"我們的茶葉蛋已經漲了200%結果這些人的時薪竟然只調3%不到部長您認為這樣的薪資調服三顆茶葉蛋有助於提升大學的教學品質嗎?您知道這件事嗎?"},{"start":9009.433,"end":9029.589,"text":"您覺得這樣合理嗎?我想跟委員坦白充寬在這個部分裡邊我並還沒有那麼熟悉但是怎麼樣確保這些堅韌的老師他的一個授課而不要疲於奔命而能夠提升這個確保這個學生的這個學習品質我想這是我們在努力的"},{"start":9029.989,"end":9043.797,"text":"好我想跟您分享這個51所啦63所的私立技專院校裡面63所當中有51所落後於當年度公立學校的知己標準占比高達81%我再講一次這30年間茶葉蛋從一顆五塊漲到15塊漲幅高達200%結果我們現在竟然只給他們調薪3%那我想這可能不是我們想要看到的尤其私校目前又遇到很多財政的這個問題"},{"start":9056.064,"end":9081.597,"text":"我想這個教育部有說要補助7成私校調整的兼任教師的終點費但是呢體察教育現場的狀況仍有高達6成5以上的私校兼任教師薪資水準低於公校兼任教師顯見目前的補助機制是利有未待想請教一下部長教育部能不能權衡私校財務的情形演繹私校兼任終點費由教育部全額補助至當年度公立大專院校兼任教師終點費的資金標準"},{"start":9085.273,"end":9108.152,"text":"委員報告我想我們鼓勵這個民間新學那怎麼樣去確保他的這個受教學生的受教品質這是一直我們努力的但是就獎勵民間新學他相當程度他也應該有一定的承諾那政府在這個財政上來看我想我們我們有退稅喔財政上不一定如你想像中的困難喔"},{"start":9111.564,"end":9120.395,"text":"您可以講完我想這一個部分確實要全額補助就財政來講事實上是我們也許可以來評估看他的"},{"start":9121.915,"end":9138.449,"text":"至少拉起跟鼓勵這個私校然後能夠拉起這一個終點會我想這是我們努力的目標好 謝謝我想不只拉起我認為這個調薪的幅度真的太低了我們的這個能不能也拉起現代產業單的價格"},{"start":9139.79,"end":9161.106,"text":"今天我特地帶來的三粒茶葉蛋要來送給部長和兩位新上任的次長有次長也是我的偶像我想提醒三位教育政策一定要接地氣苦學生所苦苦家長所苦接下來我們還要面對來自AI全球的挑戰教育部雖然以補助方式去鼓勵私立大專院校提升終點費但現況卻還是有很多的落後而且有一個非常重要的點真的是要依法"},{"start":9167.711,"end":9187.04,"text":"以學校的財務發展情形來同步調升我們剛剛提到了這個兼任教師的薪資被壓抑的這個狀況已經有監察院提出了不符合憲法而且也不符合教師待遇條例及專科以上學校兼任教師的聘任辦法等等應該保障教育工作者的生活意志接下來學校又要收場"},{"start":9187.58,"end":9187.7,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":9211.548,"end":9231.949,"text":"謝謝格魯賓委員謝謝部長可以請回座不過我忍不住還是要說身為在私立大學裏面四個兼任老師可以等於一個專職老師這也是促成目前為止一比一個非常重要的緣故所以在幫私校的兼任老師提升的時候專任老師的名額我覺得這也是高教非常重要的問題好不好謝謝"},{"start":9233.427,"end":9240.674,"text":"好,我們在吳佩儀委員質詢完畢之後我們就會休息5分鐘那現在我們請登記第9號的吳佩儀委員好,我們請部長及兩位次長"},{"start":9260.689,"end":9277.922,"text":"部長好上個禮拜五我們看到很多的民眾來到立法院外面關心我們國會正在審查的國會擴權法案的修法那其中呢很多媒體在關注的是現場看到了很多是高中生"},{"start":9278.843,"end":9299.962,"text":"那這些高中生的發言我坦白說我自己看到是非常的驚豔我認為我們的高中生是論述能力非常的強因為他們所提出來的觀點跟他的論述以及他事實查核的能力其實很多都超越我們不同政黨提出來的說明版本你可以看得出來他們是自己做功課"},{"start":9300.703,"end":9327.612,"text":"自己去思考的不只是臺北的議場外我們看到高中生包括了彰化嘉義火車站都有高中生主動出來發起集會熊中的學生在學校發起了肥皂箱裡面是各種不同的觀點所以對我來說這絕對不會是單一政黨的行動我想請問部長你有沒有看到我們的高中生在街頭上在學校上為了我們國家的公共政策站出來論述"},{"start":9330,"end":9353.85,"text":"我想確實很多的時候我們看到我們現在年輕人對國家發展的一個關心公共政策的一些關心事實上真的是比以前有更多的一些關懷的心這某種相當程度我們是應該要給肯定表示我們教育在鼓勵獨立思考在追求這個民主"},{"start":9355.111,"end":9375.776,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":9375.796,"end":9377.037,"text":"我希望教育部持續努力提升學生的自主能力"},{"start":9391.684,"end":9410.778,"text":"那所以呢今天也必須要跟部長討論的也就是我們的青年基本法青年基本法近期教育部才召開了公聽會其中兩項是我們收集到民間的意見第一點就是我們希望在法治裡面青年基本法來明定是支持青年政策的參與另外也希望"},{"start":9411.198,"end":9421.067,"text":"要有更多的跟學生直接對話的平台所以首先我想要請問部長的是我們青年基本法來明定鼓勵青年政策參與這個方向你是認同的嗎"},{"start":9423.882,"end":9450.809,"text":"我想身為一個民主的國家的任何一個分子我相信那個關心國家的一個政策的發展這個應該是被鼓勵的所以青年這個對公共事務的一個參與或者這個我想我們應該要來給予肯定那關於我們跟青年直接來對話的這個平台教育部目前有沒有在規劃當中"},{"start":9452.831,"end":9481.325,"text":"我想我們現在事實上這個跟委員報告我們現在的網路很多的這個管道事實上都是可以來納入這個聽這個年輕人的聲音我也建立了青年參與政策的一些機制從中央到地方事實上都是有的甚至我們看到地方還有一些青年發展局這些正式的組織的成立都是希望能夠有更多的鼓勵年輕人共同關心這一塊土地"},{"start":9482.025,"end":9482.185,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":9497.606,"end":9505.353,"text":"例如我今天要直接具體提三點的建議第一個目前我們教育部的主張關於青年的年齡定義是在18歲到45歲我的建議是我們應該要參考聯合國的標準把它放寬下修到15歲尤其是我們現在看到"},{"start":9516.018,"end":9543.525,"text":"高中生對於公共的參與有絕對的熱切也有絕對的能力所以我希望既然我們要去打開政府跟青年對話的平台不要把高中生排除在之外第二點是我們的政治參與其實當然有很多的形式過去親府會時期當時的主委是我們現在的副院長聖立軍他當時力推的是審議民主那這幾年我自己在地方議會都看到了很多是參與是預算"},{"start":9545.605,"end":9554.35,"text":"實的實作行政院有推動了VTaiwan的現象政策等等討論的經驗所以我要說的是我們當然有非常多的平台可以讓青年來參與但是千萬不要讓青年淪為我們政府的樣板也就是說青年的參與青年的意見我們必須實質的讓他去可以導入我們決策的過程這才叫做父權不是說開會的時候找個青年代表來簽個名"},{"start":9573.601,"end":9575.802,"text":"會議結束的結論還是都是依照我們部理依照我們政府的版本來去做那這個就叫做青年樣板不叫做青年政策參與所以我希望教育部未來再訂定不管是青年國師會議還是相關的機制務必要把父權"},{"start":9588.851,"end":9613.465,"text":"青年參與決策這一項非常重要的要件要把它納入第三點就是我們看到了不管是大學的學生社團還是高中生的學生社團其實發展都越來越蓬勃但我希望我們把社團也要當作我們正式教育的一環但目前我看到我們教育部在政策上面支持學生社團的政策工具是少之又少我自己在高中參加"},{"start":9615.106,"end":9615.126,"text":"獲得獎項"},{"start":9630.538,"end":9632.3,"text":"我們的體育署是要升格為體育部那這個呢不只是我們賴清德總統競選期間的證件也是我個人參選立委的時候提出來的證件尤其是我在台北市擔任市議員的時候就注意到"},{"start":9645.615,"end":9648.938,"text":"我們臺北市的運動產業規模是快速的增加以健身房為例2013年的時候只有149間到2023年已經是幾倍數的成長來到超過900間這個會有什麼問題在疫情的時候當時大量的場館都有紓困的需求甚至發生很多消費的爭議但是因為我們過去我們地方政府的自治條例裡面對於運動場館其實沒有一個具體的納管"},{"start":9671.576,"end":9679.382,"text":"所以產生了非常多有爭議但是政府找不到權責單位去介入協助調解的問題所以我想我們看到的是運動產業在臺灣是蓬勃並且快速的發展已經到了我們政府的組織改造刻不容緩的時刻那除了我剛剛講到的場館像是職棒工會職籃工會女足工會也都是先後成立我想現在"},{"start":9696.894,"end":9701.836,"text":"台灣人可能10年前都很難可以想像現在我們直男聯盟甚至有兩個直男聯盟是這麼樣的蓬勃發展那工會呢他參與了工會跟球團之間的權力保障也涉及到了選手當他擔任國手的時候他跟我們政府之間的權力保障所以之前我也跟署長常常在關心是我們直男工會相關的議題所以我希望我們現在在"},{"start":9723.985,"end":9729.049,"text":"終於來到了要去升格討論的時刻我們體育署2011年才成立了運動產業組他是從我們原來的中規組來改組的但是我們必須要去因應我們運動產業的這個蓬勃的變化所以我希望我們在做這個組織改造的時候必須要把運動產業要把它很仔細的去考量進去所以說我想請問部長目前對於體育署升格為體育部我們有沒有一個時間表"},{"start":9754.734,"end":9777.721,"text":"跟委員報告首先有關運動產業這個部分確實我們現在這個體育署確實有把這個規劃他不排斥在未來的一個規劃可能會變成一個署或者研究院的這樣的一個層級所以我們目前在整個體育署這個部分他確實也已經有一些初步的規劃"},{"start":9780.042,"end":9788.348,"text":"7月7月會大概在北中南東分區去座談然後也許8月就開始針對這些座談的社會廣廳社會好所以我們預計7月份會來舉辦座談是"},{"start":9794.352,"end":9797.315,"text":"這座談是跟民間團體相關的實務界的來座談這非常重要我認為過去我們文化部我們法定是要求要舉辦全國文化會議我認為我們也應該要舉辦全國體育會議那如果部長我就是要提醒你這一點"},{"start":9811.509,"end":9814.99,"text":"這個體育部升格固然是我個人認為非常重要但是我認為充分的跟我們實務界來討論再來去擬定我們的這個升格相關的規劃更加為重要如果現在有人跟你說你立刻馬上給我提出這個修法立刻要升格都不用討論的話那個人就是在害你因為沒有討論不是民主啊部長"},{"start":9834.335,"end":9837.438,"text":"所以切記我們一定要充分的跟民間溝通討論看見產業需求看見選手需求再來做我們綜合相關的規劃可不可以做得到"},{"start":9845.12,"end":9861.993,"text":"當然這個廣聽民意然後做出一個更好的一個這個升格的一個規劃那是我們努力的目標再來是我們的體育預算因為我們副院長昨天也說體育預算應該要來增加我就想要請問我們張亮次長因為我知道過去你一直在關心我們的這個運動發展基金的編列過去我們的執行率已經好不容易有達到來九成"},{"start":9871.039,"end":9887.602,"text":"但是我們的收入的決算每次都是低估能不能請問為什麼會這樣子呢我其實在擔任委員的時候我也對這個預算尤其是基金的預算公務的預算的比例也曾經建議過當然現在我在部裡面我們會盡量來爭取這個除了我們那個基金預算以外我們的公務預算也能夠年年成長"},{"start":9896.724,"end":9916.834,"text":"是因為預算就是要何時編列已經連年都是低估了所以我希望我們未來要來精確的去評估從2016到2024年應該是從大概七八十億的規模已經成長到一百三十幾億那明年因為現在開始在編明年的預算那明年預算預計也會繼續成長"},{"start":9919.895,"end":9934.261,"text":"最後我想要請教我們葉市長因為我自己個人國小參與的是410當時教改一個實驗班我在台北市議會的時候也是來推動臺北市實驗教訓中心的成立我知道"},{"start":9935.081,"end":9949.794,"text":"業次長你說你所辦的這第一批的非學校實驗教育機構已經有學生是大學生了他們也回來跟你聊天所以過去我們這些年來的經驗實驗教育三法修法之後這些經驗你認為未來我們教育部要怎麼樣來支持實驗教育"},{"start":9952.842,"end":9971.671,"text":"我想實驗教育是臺灣的教育我覺得一個蠻難得的一個果實那我想比如以去年來講的話之前這個東京都政府他們其實派了一群官員來臺灣參訪就是特別想要來看實驗教育我想臺灣實驗教育其實做到已經連日本一些我覺得他們都在這件事情"},{"start":9972.771,"end":10000.831,"text":"但回過頭來我覺得這10年下來確實有一些我覺得我們未來可以一起再努力的目標比如說舉例來講像實驗教育有很多時候最大的一個挑戰就是包括一些空間這些很多的問題事實上比如說像在學校裡面這些簽約租約都是要一年一簽這對實驗教育都有非常大的壓力那再包括比如說像這個數位資訊的這些的support這些其實它如果不是一個正常的學校的話它要申請這些其實有時候也都會受到"},{"start":10006.014,"end":10017.863,"text":"實現教育最重要一件事情是體制外的教育不是要為了要跟體制內打對台事實上在108課綱的很多的精神包括以素養為主的這些教育其實很多的理念跟實現教育在做的事情是很相通的"},{"start":10018.323,"end":10018.423,"text":"實驗教育"},{"start":10038.368,"end":10063.724,"text":"要避免就是裡面有一些其實坦白講也有我們看到一些他可能就是掛羊頭賣狗肉他其實假時間教育知名但是他可能行更填鴨之食的可以拿掉很多我們在課綱覺得很重要的一些課反而可以更著重在升學的填鴨那怎麼樣讓這些不會變成時間教育汙名化這也是我覺得未來是一個我們可以要努力的目標來確保時間教育的教育的品質謝謝"},{"start":10064.625,"end":10077.196,"text":"好部長我必須要說我今天相當失望的是在我們教育部整本報告裡面我沒有看到我們對實驗教育政策方向的說明那過去為什麼我們在台北市地方政府要推動一個中心就是我們發現這個主責承辦的單位他是分成國小國中高中但可能實驗教育機構有一所他就是國小國中高中是貫穿的所以我希望在我們的部門當中其實有一個整體的大腦"},{"start":10089.727,"end":10096.353,"text":"是可以整體的來去思考我們實驗教育推廣的方向這部分我希望教育部可能能夠繼續來精進好 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝各位 謝謝好 那我們接下來 謝謝配議委員然後謝謝部長次長我們接下來休息5分鐘 謝謝"},{"start":10412.349,"end":10414.752,"text":"好,我們現在繼續開會接下來我們請陳秀寶委員謝主席,請鄭部長好,我們請部長"},{"start":10433.936,"end":10442.663,"text":"委員好部長早安首先先歡迎鄭英耀部長您來接掌部長這個職務啦也期待說鄭部長您的帶領能夠將您在教育現場的這些實務的經驗呢融入後續的我們相關的教育政策的擬定讓我們國的國內的這個教育政策可以更加順利的推動那首先在這邊我先要向部長您拜託這個我在總質詢的時候有向當時時任部長的潘部長有提出要求"},{"start":10463.2,"end":10463.3,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10484.682,"end":10498.096,"text":"要整修的經費都比較龐大很需要教育部這邊來協助那時候我有請教育部盡快來盤點相關各需要的協助趕快來統整資料來提供必要的這些協助不知道說我們教育部現在有什麼進度"},{"start":10500.661,"end":10516.328,"text":"我想這一個我目前在盤點這一個需要修繕有1800多的場館那我們會逐年依照他的一個安全跟他的一個急迫性所以你們盤點的資料已經有出來了可是會有一份資料給我辦公室"},{"start":10517.368,"end":10533.542,"text":"後續我再跟部長您這邊來討論怎麼來協助這些相關的這些學校所需要的協助那這邊來請教我們部長國中的會考在5月19日是已經落幕但是在考試的過程還是又出狀況而且這次出狀況是在本席的選區本席有接到考生跟家長的陳情在鹿港的這個市場考生有反映說這個市場的監視人員將考試規則重複播放了兩次"},{"start":10544.991,"end":10545.051,"text":"獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":10567.481,"end":10593.87,"text":"在試題播放結束再用剩下的5分鐘把答案畫在答案卡上那所以說這5分鐘對他們講非常的珍貴被浪費掉1分鐘他們只剩下4分鐘的時間可以來這個檢討檢查答案來把答案畫上去所以這些考生非常非常的焦慮也造成了他們有出錯那這個部分我想請教部長說目前你們有沒有掌握到這個狀況那後續你們怎麼處理"},{"start":10596.616,"end":10596.636,"text":"好!"},{"start":10625.896,"end":10640.225,"text":"好那這個部分呢再來你們掌握到的狀況跟怎麼處理呢你也要一份報告給我辦公室這邊知道那本席在不久之前也詢問過關於統測的題目抄襲的問題那現在統測成績單都已經在5月16號開始激發了離這個考試也已經過了將近一個月了官網上面還是沒有看到調查的這個結果那請問說現在我們對這個統測題目涉嫌有抄襲的調查結果是什麼你們預計要如何來改善"},{"start":10656.192,"end":10677.632,"text":"這個是不是能夠請我們這個市長來好那請您回答好跟委員報告那我們統策中心針對這一個議題已經調查出來了是沒有這樣的一個問題他題目也都改寫命庭的方式是有做調整的那這一份報告在統策中心的網頁裡面有"},{"start":10679.494,"end":10685.117,"text":"所以以教育部這邊來了解的結果你們的認定是說不是我們的認定跟委員報告他們有透過三次的邀請學者專家不管是大學的老師或是技高的老師共同來討論這個部分本期尊重你們有你的專業但是說對考生權益的維護呢其實本期一直都很關系長期在追蹤我們全國性考試的狀況"},{"start":10704.969,"end":10715.974,"text":"但是不論是哪一種考試都是學生他們辛苦了好幾年所準備的對他們來講每一場考試都非常的重要結果從去年到今年陸陸續續都發生狀況尤其是今年學測統測到會考只要是全國性的考試都出包出包率都已經要變成是常態了部長您覺得這樣的頻率出包的頻率你可以接受嗎"},{"start":10726.503,"end":10748.081,"text":"我想這個重大的考試不要說重大考試就平常一般學校考試也不應該出包所以我們有事實上都任何特別全國性的一些大型考試都有一些標準每一場考試都很重要都不應該出包但是這麼這麼高的出包的頻率我們教育部難道沒有更有效的監督辦法讓這些考試的事務中心更正常一點的運作來維護這些考生的權益嗎"},{"start":10752.895,"end":10759.982,"text":"我想我們會跟委員報告我們會持續精進在整個監視人員包括整個流程裡邊我相信我們會"},{"start":10762.165,"end":10768.71,"text":"可以透過更努力的來精進一定可以降低這樣的一個部長本席這邊要求就是教育部你們在3個月內提供關於協策統策會考等全國性考試的這個事務流程檢討以及後續你們改善的措施的檢討報告給本席那也希望說我們教育部呢也可以"},{"start":10783.28,"end":10787.565,"text":"未來在部長您的領導之下可以有效的讓事務中心更嚴謹的辦理以後的考試尤其分科考試測驗即將來臨本期希望不要再有任何影響考生權益的狀況發生"},{"start":10799.62,"end":10814.885,"text":"是,這也是我們努力,我們應該要做的好,部長,近期針對中國大陸學衛生的討論也很多大家都很關心那賴清德總統也說在就職演說時有提到說將重啟學衛生來台那在5月21日的時候部長您也說全面恢復陸生來台那這邊要請教部長我們針對大陸學生學衛生的部分呢是要比照過去的人數開放還是會先一部分的開放"},{"start":10829.671,"end":10839.883,"text":"目前我們事實上合定的既有的一個辦法是招生的各校招生的一個百分之二這個額度裡邊來先進行這個協會所以會先部分開放陸陸續續的再增加名額是嗎?"},{"start":10844.724,"end":10850.529,"text":"本席這邊也可認教育部你們這邊先釋出善意的做法其實我們要廣納各國各界的學生來台不僅是培養人才也是向外展示台灣的方法"},{"start":10868.924,"end":10884.387,"text":"根據過去我們看一下中國慣行的方式其實陸生不來也是很大的變因是因為說中國單方面他有在控制本席這邊也建議說除了開放中國大陸的學位生之外是不是針對其他國際生我們也可以把這些名額適度的去調整給其他國家來向這些國家優秀的學生招手這個部分我覺得你們可以做這樣的調整"},{"start":10894.309,"end":10916.276,"text":"我們事實上是從那個方向在努力另一個部分要請教我們賴清德總統對AI發展也都有著墨AI是國際趨勢未來台灣而且我們台灣是高科技及半導體的重鎮針對這個注重AI的發展本席這邊要強調的就是語言程式教育向下延伸的重要性"},{"start":10916.836,"end":10934.574,"text":"過去不管是在本席的委員會在質詢的時候還是在院會質詢我都有提過都有關心過那本席在總質詢的時候有指出我國的語言程式教育缺乏同意的師資同意的教材及一致的目標那甚至說許多的規劃跟計劃都直接丟給地方政府"},{"start":10935.234,"end":10943.759,"text":"這樣恐怕也會造成語言程式教育存在的城鄉差距的隱憂而且會讓教學現場的老師針對因為不同教材的規劃會有很大顯著的不同根據媒體的報導教育部這邊相關小組有到韓國觀摩針對韓國的經驗他們在2025年韓國的AI數位教科書就會上線這就是本席所提的統一的教材請問我們教育部現在對於統一的教材統一的私資培訓你們有怎樣的規劃"},{"start":10965.2,"end":10965.48,"text":"公務委員報告"},{"start":10995.14,"end":10998.762,"text":"那這樣子就變成說你們是沒有一個統一的目標你也沒有統一的一個一個讓學生跟老師在學習過後做一個做一個有標準的一個來評斷判斷說學生是不是真的有完成這個課程跟委員報告大概我們課綱事實上是有目標的那當然因為小學在98課綱改為這個調整到108課綱的時候我們事實上是用融入學科"},{"start":11023.493,"end":11032.019,"text":"融入學科在社會在小學這個階段真的我很建議教育部你們不要把這樣子的城市語言教育當成類似像一個通識課程這樣子說我有上就好我們既然有這樣的課程規劃我們就要讓學生真正有學習到那是我們產業人才的競爭的優勢"},{"start":11042.185,"end":11069.343,"text":"所以說本席非常的重視在這邊其實我要建議我是希望說我國的城市語言教育推發統一的目標及教材一定要研議改進然後針對各校資訊的教材補充之後我們要做後續的規劃還有要請教育部這邊的規劃各階段統一的教材然後進行私資培訓來供教育現場的教師才能夠試用這個部分我希望你們可以盡速的研議"},{"start":11070.672,"end":11081.684,"text":"謝謝是真的要落實它而不是說這樣的課程有商就好我有安排就好我肯定不是的那我剛剛提的這三個建議請你們教育部這邊盡快來研議喔"},{"start":11083.697,"end":11083.857,"text":"學生輔導法"},{"start":11103.081,"end":11118.472,"text":"在上個屆期本席有提出修正案但是因為屆期不連續也沒有辦法刪讀但是這個會期本席也會再提出關於學生輔導法部分的這個條文的修正草案但是這邊也希望說教育部這邊你們應該要盡快的研議學生輔導法的這個進度不知道你們什麼時候會提出"},{"start":11131.602,"end":11145.714,"text":"目前在行政院審查中那因為新內閣已經就任了後續我們會就何時提送所以每天送行政院囉那先前教育部在評估現場狀況之後有決議說從今年開始大專院校的這個專輔人力是從1比1200有調到1比900這個部分本席也肯定說教育部這邊的努力啦"},{"start":11154.622,"end":11165.463,"text":"那是不是說在高中以下的學校還沒有在HFR還沒有修訂完成之前可不可以先編列預算來補足這個政府人力的規劃可以先這樣子做嗎"},{"start":11167.492,"end":11185.961,"text":"跟委員報告我們事實上在就朝委員剛才所建議的我們在國小跟國中事實上也都有這個規劃增加這一個逐年增加這一個專任的這個新府就是在選法還沒有完成修訂之前也會先編約預算來提高我們的這些專府的能力學府的能力是嗎是"},{"start":11186.741,"end":11190.744,"text":"好謝謝主席再給我一點點時間我盡快5月3號我們立法院有個兒童日在這邊先感謝陳培宇委員是他提議的這個立法院的兒童日那本期選區的河東國小有到立院來參訪其中有一組學生有一個概念本期覺得非常值得提出來跟我們教育部這邊來討論那這個小學生的提案內容就是說鑒於霸凌等問題頻傳顯見家庭教育的失能"},{"start":11214.56,"end":11221.446,"text":"為補足並建立家庭關係之正向認知的未來孩子在進入義務教育之前家長應強制休息一定時日之輕職教育這個是孩子們提出來的孩子們他們自己本身在這個教育學習的過程裡面他有感受到也許是同儕也許是看到新聞媒體的報導"},{"start":11235.239,"end":11255.852,"text":"也許是同校的學生他覺得說家庭教育跟學校教育都是不可或缺的所以呢他提出了一個這樣子的建議那是不是我們教育部也可以來演繹說這個孩子提出的這樣子的一個建議就是說其實很多教學現場的教師對家庭功能比較缺失的孩子他們在教導上是會有一定難行之處"},{"start":11257.893,"end":11265.938,"text":"那所以說除了家庭學校教育之外呢這個家庭教育的這一塊我們如何來補足是不是說可以來研議讓家長來上這個輕職教育"},{"start":11270.899,"end":11294.89,"text":"感謝委員寶貴的意見,事實上我們目前就有這一個相關的一些家長要接受這一個家庭教育的這個相關的資能是有的那未來要怎麼精進我想我們也會跟地方政府積極的來這一個研議看怎麼樣的精進我們知道這一個家長跟小孩子我常常因為大家很忙那怎麼樣提升他的互動的品質"},{"start":11296.551,"end":11315.707,"text":"我相信這對家庭的功能包括親子的教養都是一個正面的因為真的生教終於原教其實對學生來講我們不管在討論學生輔導或是管教的準則的時候我們還是不能忽略的家庭教育的重要性是是好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝部長好謝謝部長請回座好謝謝我們接下來請林一景召委"},{"start":11329.998,"end":11330.982,"text":"謝謝主席 有請鄭部長"},{"start":11338.106,"end":11340.147,"text":"教育部長鄭英耀列席"},{"start":11360.762,"end":11376.032,"text":"不管是委員會的質詢或在總質詢我都一直在唱也就是要設立一個運動的專責部會那麼賴清德在競選的期間就有說他的政見是要成立體育暨運動發展部"},{"start":11378.073,"end":11399.622,"text":"在就職演說的時候他也再次的宣誓所以我本席還是要不厭其妨的再論述一次就為什麼我們要一個專責的部會來處理體育的項目就是因為運動的業務它包含的太多了不管是教育或培養優秀的運動人員以外運動產業的建設跟發展"},{"start":11402.643,"end":11402.923,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11418.877,"end":11418.897,"text":"委員會議員會議員"},{"start":11440.703,"end":11440.843,"text":"委員會曾經跟我答詢說他"},{"start":11458.297,"end":11459.779,"text":"攸前部長也有說教育部辦理體育的相關事務確實有所限制"},{"start":11478.478,"end":11492.871,"text":"因為體育的事務也相當特別那我們要跟國外窗口的那個接口的時候其實會有一些難處喔 如果光是教育部的話那所以賴總統既然已經宣誓喔 所以我想來設立這種體育暨發展 運動發展部就變得是勢在必行 好"},{"start":11500.037,"end":11528.816,"text":"那現在就是說要請教部長的是因為我們了解現在我們的中央行政二級機關已經到頂那要成立這個體育部不曉得您現在有什麼樣的做法是要來修改所謂的這個行政院的這個組織設置條例呢或者是說要另外跟其他的部門合成為部呢這個部分不曉得部長你怎麼想"},{"start":11531.418,"end":11556.11,"text":"我想跟委員報告我們目前在體育署有規劃有多好幾個版本當然也把這樣的一個構想讓行政院到最後去到底要從組織法來修改還是有其他的一些部會之間的一些這個合作我想這我們是有一些規劃的有些規劃然後到時候再送院去裁決所以我剛講的兩種"},{"start":11559.472,"end":11559.852,"text":"7月要在北中南辦座談會"},{"start":11586.537,"end":11601.623,"text":"是我們目前是有這樣的一個規劃是跟體育界辦座談會除了體育界還有來自於社會大眾因為我們希望就陳委員所說的全民運動是讓全民都健康那甚至所帶來的這個運動產業的一個蓬勃發展"},{"start":11604.824,"end":11608.987,"text":"接下來本期想要跟您討論私校小聯考的議題我主要想要跟部長確認一下基本的價值方向"},{"start":11629.239,"end":11652.052,"text":"一部分的私立學校透過入學考試或者是什麼科學營隊啊數理語文這個精英競賽等等透過各種的名目來招生來篩選學生那所以可以說把升學壓力下降到小學生那2021年本席就曾提出要修訂私校法的這個"},{"start":11653.413,"end":11677.528,"text":"的提案想要改善這個亂象那當時潘部長的態度是相當的肯定相當的支持因為他認為國民教育是基礎教育如果私校小聯考的方式還存在那就表示說跟12年國教五大施政理念是有所漢格那到了2023年修改國民教育法的時候我們"},{"start":11678.348,"end":11704.602,"text":"本席再次提出這樣的一個提議那時候有通過國教法有一個附帶決議就是教育部要嚴密修正私校法和執法規範私校不得以測驗、口試、審查成績或任何類似考試的方式來招生可是我們可以看到時至今日還是很多私校持續用考試的方式來招生那甚至"},{"start":11705.522,"end":11705.542,"text":"獲得獎項"},{"start":11720.899,"end":11746.016,"text":"是一種健康的國民教育升學方式嗎你是否也支持禁止私校小聯考那之前的附帶決議教育部說要規範私校不得已測驗、口試、審查成績等等的類似方式來招生可是我詢問了之前教育部教育部目前的做法得到的答案是提醒"},{"start":11746.676,"end":11763.102,"text":"地方政府應落實督導私校招生用提醒的方式所以看起來你們目前是很消極的在做這件事情那我要詢問就是說我之前提出要修改私校法第39條"},{"start":11764.802,"end":11769.846,"text":"我並且那時候還要求要從審查制改成核定制那不曉得部長您現在的態度怎麼樣是支持這樣的方式嗎"},{"start":11791.721,"end":11797.195,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒,我想委員剛才所提的是非常好的一個"},{"start":11798.909,"end":11824.73,"text":"對施校我們感謝施校這個結合民間力量來共同來這個進行這個人才培育可是國民教育特別是小學他絕對不應該用年考用什麼來成為一個入學的一個選擇標準我想這個基本上是違反我們對國民教育的一個在人才培育裡面的方向我們一定要"},{"start":11825.45,"end":11846.076,"text":"在未來我想我們跟地方政府因為國民教育主要還是在地方政府在實施的一些因為我們現在私校法裡面對於私校招生如果超過原額那怎麼樣這個入學方式我們沒有任何的規定所以我想說是不是私校法教育部也可以開始啟動來修私校法"},{"start":11846.838,"end":11847.78,"text":"我相信公權力在"},{"start":11865.522,"end":11892.973,"text":"相對的在這個教育的一個本質裡面我們還是要堅持好謝謝部長的回答最後本期想要跟您討論學校交通車的議題因為今年3月底到4月底新竹跟台北分別都有發生各一起校車交通的事故那造成數十名的學生跟車輛的駕駛受傷那上週台北同一所學校又在同一個地點"},{"start":11893.473,"end":11910.538,"text":"．"},{"start":11911.999,"end":11928.633,"text":"確實進到所謂的管理責任因為根據報導臺北的那一場就是這所學校連續發生兩場同個地點的事故這所學校他甚至沒有依照學生交通車管理辦法把租賃的契約副本"},{"start":11929.454,"end":11932.177,"text":"臺北市交一句備查沒有那各縣市政府照理應該要定期稽查交通車那以臺東市為例他們今年至少稽查了94次可是不合格率有32%"},{"start":11946.135,"end":11976.135,"text":"﹚"},{"start":11976.335,"end":11977.979,"text":"那你們對於各縣市的督導的狀況又是如何?部長"},{"start":11981.492,"end":12006.861,"text":"謝謝委員關心學童的一個安全包括在一個特別關係到生命的這一個安全這沒有絕對不容挑戰所以我相信我們除了繼續喊請地方政府跟學校來按照這個學生交通這個管理的辦法嚴格來執行必要的時候就我的一個想像"},{"start":12007.481,"end":12013.265,"text":"假設地方政府在這個部分沒有真正落實這個許多租賃上的一些辦法的標準的我們不排斥這個對地方的獎補助我們會祭出一些罰則因為我覺得現在是這樣學校端也很有問題"},{"start":12025.072,"end":12040.08,"text":"當然交通車業者也有問題可是因為教育部我們直接對學校端所以我們要督促學校端去要求交通車業者所以我想這部分要請教育部多出力一點就像陳獨民剛所說的就是說你如果"},{"start":12040.78,"end":12046.882,"text":"他們如果確實沒有改善或者說地方的教育局對這些學校端沒有做好好的這個督導那可能您可能會祭出一些公權力做出一些獎補助減少或者我覺得這是好事可是還是請你們要提出具體的辦法好不好"},{"start":12059.006,"end":12078.361,"text":"才會讓這種事情越少減少那最後就是20秒您剛有提到三大對媒體有三大優先推動的政策除了這三大以外像擴大幼兒教保公共化或者健全特殊教育資源等等這兩個問題不曉得您怎麼看"},{"start":12082.062,"end":12082.082,"text":"委員會長"},{"start":12097.142,"end":12097.402,"text":"提供的會議"},{"start":12126.651,"end":12127.832,"text":"接下來我們請張雅玲委員"},{"start":12162.317,"end":12164.622,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請鄭部長好 我們請鄭部長"},{"start":12172.97,"end":12195.781,"text":"部長好,首先想要跟,我想我們這個上禮拜有這個青鳥行動,那這個街道上面各式各樣年輕人的創意,學生們自主地在全台灣發起了這樣子的一個表達自己意見的這個聲量,創意無限,我想這應該都代表說我們過去這幾年在做兒童表意權這件事情其實是有得到一個不錯的一個成果,對不對?"},{"start":12196.941,"end":12216.355,"text":"那我想就是說那我就會針對這個兒童表意權這件事情持續的來做一些討論就是說因為其實在聯合國有規定說兒童是有權利去參與公共事務那在2022年的兒童權利公約國際審查結論性意見其實也有提到說我們中央應該也要提供這樣子的機會給年紀較小的兒童參與"},{"start":12220.038,"end":12233.517,"text":"那這個兒童權利公約裡面保障的兒童其實是未滿18歲以下的兒童跟少年因為我們希望可以更早的讓他們參與這樣子他們長大的時候才會有更好的一個政策討論的一個表現"},{"start":12235.51,"end":12256.495,"text":"但是我看了一下其實當時也有建議說教育部應該要有一個人權工作小組應該來增加兒少代表但我看了一下這個名單是18歲以上都沒有12歲以下所以我想要了解就是在這一端我們從2022年國際審查到現在也將近快要一年半的時間那這個進度現在是怎麼樣"},{"start":12260.84,"end":12278.377,"text":"我們已經完成了這個設置要點的修改將來會加入兒少代表不過就在新聘委員的部分目前還在作業中那大概是什麼時候會這個作業會什麼時候完成呢應該在完成改組之後就會有兒少代表"},{"start":12288.268,"end":12301.476,"text":"我希望就是說我們可以在8月份之後我就會看到18歲以下的兒童一起來參與這些政策的討論那在下一題就是還是回到我自己過去在民間所關心的就是兒童遊戲權這件事情"},{"start":12302.476,"end":12321.846,"text":"這是我們2023年特工盟這個民間組織他其實採訪了北高兩地的兒童那他們就小孩自己說的話就是說他下課跟放學後或是假日都沒有時間遊戲因為他下課的時候呢可能要補血或發血或者是老師會要求他完成體能作業這個體能作業其實跟SH150非常有關係因為SH150希望孩子培養一個運動的習慣嘛"},{"start":12327.108,"end":12334.135,"text":"但是學校通常就叫他們跑操場跟跳繩所以他的大下課時間就要去完成這一項作業他就沒有時間去玩耍"},{"start":12336.263,"end":12358.674,"text":"他自己說他的上學時間比大人的上班時間還要長他放學之後可能要去安親班或者是留在學校的課後班所以他其實不太有時間遊戲在不太有時間遊戲其實是非常影響到孩子的身心健康發展其實在2013年吳沛昌醫師他也做了一個研究"},{"start":12359.674,"end":12388.241,"text":"他說每天增加80分鐘的護腕活動其實是可以將近視力減半這是有顯著的差異他也在世界衛生組織都去發表這些研究的報告所以我就想要了解說我們到底在這件事情上面我們可不可以第一個先檢討SH150它的執行方式到學校落實的面向是不是可以有些調整第二個就是說在新竹其實有一個叫做課後運動班我們是不是可以來規劃一個課後遊戲班讓學校可以來參考來增加遊戲的時間"},{"start":12389.361,"end":12415.668,"text":"第三個,其實在這個國家結論性意見裡面也有講到我們其實應該要去強化家庭教育中心的一個功能性讓家長了解休息、遊戲和休閒對孩子的身心發展的重要性每年要辦理120場次所以針對這三點,不曉得說部長可不可以給我一些回覆"},{"start":12417.288,"end":12438.77,"text":"我非常同意委員所提的尤其事實上對學生創意的想像跟創意的培養是一個非常重要的那我也不容否認我們過去大概月經一晴芳一夕所以很擔心尤其少子化家長們都很擔心他的小孩輸在起跑點上"},{"start":12439.411,"end":12467.602,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":12467.742,"end":12488.802,"text":"身體的健康更重要而且能夠保持一個更長人生的發展是這一個馬拉松他不是只是一個短暫的時分我想部長跟葉次長應該都非常了解就是世界經濟論壇他一直在講未來20年未來30年會消失的工作但是有哪些工作是無法取代的"},{"start":12489.202,"end":12503.616,"text":"但其實跟遊戲非常有關係訓練出來的能力創意這件事情是非常有關係的所以我想請那個部長給我具體的一些回應就是說如果現在沒有辦法也沒有關係但是我們至少認同這個方向但我們可不可以先檢討SH150落實在學校裡的一個狀況因為其實在結論信件也有說我們要去抽查"},{"start":12508.601,"end":12513.502,"text":"第3個現在我們在120場次的一個家庭教育中心規劃的進度跟執行的成效又是什麼那這個部分可以會後給我資料就好了那大概什麼時候這是現在就有資料嗎還是會後要待多久會有這個家庭教育的資料"},{"start":12533.373,"end":12547.151,"text":"委員這個報告我們事實上現在課後的一個照顧安親事實上也不見只是學科他事實上有運動有藝術表演各方面的他相對是活潑的我想部長那個是社團"},{"start":12548.353,"end":12568.831,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":12569.231,"end":12592.025,"text":"部長可以再回去跟可能是署長這邊再做一些討論我們看看實際面上我們可以怎麼樣來處理這個部分那因為時間有限我想我們會後再約個時間來詳細討論好了好謝謝那下一個問題就是說還是回到這個問題就是說因為其實孩子在戶外的空間遊戲時間不足那其實你都在室內你最常會使用的東西就是手機網路成癮這個問題應該大家都非常的清楚了而且學生成癮的這個程度"},{"start":12597.928,"end":12618.349,"text":"是比一般上班族還要來得高而且是逐年加深也有非常多的報告都在說這個網路成癮帶來的一些身心疾患例如像是美國科醫學會就講他會影響到學生的睡眠品質如果減少運動會造成肥胖那也有可能會增加這個語言發展遲緩然後注意力缺失症的這個問題但是我在這個"},{"start":12621.912,"end":12647.508,"text":"之前的院會其實也有講到說我們其實應該要來積極的去做一些相關的建設那像這個奧運他就有講我們現在以前我們可能傳統的奧運跟我們現在奧運的比賽項目其實都越來越有很大的差異像是霹靂舞都進來了衝浪或是2028年洛杉磯奧運還有邀請美式足球其實是越來日新月異活動也越來越有趣那所以"},{"start":12648.248,"end":12671.085,"text":"我是希望我們可以做這件事情但是在2014月16號的時候那時候給我的回文是這樣說就是說根據112年運動現況調查青少年13到17歲運動人口比例達到93.8%對於住家附近運動場所之充足度比率達到69.3%那大部分的人好像都也有一些這些運動的項目"},{"start":12674.08,"end":12684.151,"text":"那這樣看起來就是說好像我們並不需要做這件事情欸但真的是這樣子嗎今年一樣在同樣在今年喔台灣兒校不愛動如果我們前面講都有在動那這一個不就剛剛好打臉我們剛剛講的嗎我們就是不愛動啊我們還"},{"start":12693.642,"end":12711.513,"text":"從2018年到現在我們身體活動量都是F等級根據世界衛生組織的建議量我們根本只有22%的國中生達標高中生甚至只有13.6%我覺得我們缺乏運動的這些場域的規劃而且還有這些特殊性有趣性其實是相對不夠的"},{"start":12713.584,"end":12728.04,"text":"所以我想請教部長或署長來回答都可以就是說我們現在是不是應該真的要認真的回去研擬相關的可行性方案因為這件事情上面就是不及格啦"},{"start":12730.3,"end":12757.843,"text":"謝謝委員的一個提醒跟指導我想我非常同意我們怎麼樣透過這一個喜多年輕人更喜歡的這些比如說極限運動對沒錯比如說台灣是一個海洋國家我們有更多的水域活動的一個運動的推展我想這都是我們來努力而不會讓年輕人或者學生他覺得有一些只是打球或者停留在陸地上的"},{"start":12758.303,"end":12773.336,"text":"這些東西我們會來努力來跟地方政府看許多的公共空間他能夠release能夠釋放出來然後大家來合作看怎麼樣自己提供青少年或者我們小學生有更有趣的一些運動空間"},{"start":12774.477,"end":12792.157,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝部長因為其實我前面講的就是時間嘛時間不夠所以我們必須要清出一些時間出來包括跟家長去溝通讓他們有些時間讓小孩去運動但是時間有了場地就要準備好所以這部分就是在麻煩這個部長跟署長因為署長你知道我都一直非常關心這個題目那再來就是說在這個"},{"start":12794.844,"end":12812.812,"text":"自殺率的問題回到青少年自殺率根據這個臺大公衛學院健康行為與社區科學研究所張書生教授所發表的一篇研究報告他說校園學生自我傷害的一個常見因素常見的相關因素"},{"start":12813.872,"end":12840.832,"text":"精神疾病都是排名第一的第二個是家庭關係問題不管是在自殺或自傷它都超過了六成所以這個數字其實是非常需要被關注的但是根據我們教育部的一個研究我們自己的統計數字就是說我們的學生自殺跟自傷的整體趨勢是上升的可以看到這條線是持續上升的"},{"start":12842.782,"end":12863.724,"text":"尤其我們來看10歲到19歲蓄意自殺的死亡率也是上升的過去我們可能想的是大學生但是我們忽略了其實國高中生的這一條線也都是在增加的那這一點我覺得現在孩子已經生得很少了每一個孩子我們真的都要好好請全力來照顧"},{"start":12864.765,"end":12877.9,"text":"所以我知道為服務有針對15到30歲有心理智商需求的年輕朋友他們會提供年輕族群的心理健康支持方案讓每個人有三次免費的心理智商那我想從這張數字我們可以看"},{"start":12879.682,"end":12880.202,"text":"請部長回答"},{"start":12898.51,"end":12927.167,"text":"我想我們會來跟衛福部來合作看怎麼樣來也在適時的對我們這些小學生也可以提供一定的程度的心理的一個支持的力量那不曉得這個份的研擬大概是需要多久的時間我們可以再做進一步的討論呢我想我們內部這個盡快來因為這是有價值的一件事情那盡快我們是可以抓一個月嗎還是大概什麼時間您說個時間好了"},{"start":12930.1,"end":12930.5,"text":"請吳村成委員"},{"start":12961.707,"end":12961.848,"text":"有請鄭部長"},{"start":12969.608,"end":12996.129,"text":"委員好部長好我是你的校友中山大學我是第5屆畢業的所以我們算自己人那所以呢當然對你來接任部長我們中山校友會都歡心鼓舞那也期待你有大刀闊斧有所作為"},{"start":12998.17,"end":13023.622,"text":"那這個那個我到立法院來我談了這樣應該快了4個月的時間都在談壯世代那這個為什麼我選擇在教文委員會因為壯世代的核心就是一個文化就是一個教育的問題那當然擴擠到不是未還不是去長照"},{"start":13025.183,"end":13041.619,"text":"所以在這裡重中之重我講了四個月我想在座的這些司長應該耳朵都聽到深淺了對不對但是我看了今天教育部所做的業務報告書是部長上任的報告書裡面"},{"start":13044.266,"end":13069.461,"text":"只有一句話一句帶過第27月樂齡長者學習還是停留在樂齡上我不曉得是下情不能上達沒有跟還是潘部長答應我說要把這個東西答應我很多的事情要移交沒有移交還是說所做的事情部長沒有認同"},{"start":13070.842,"end":13081.936,"text":"那所以這一部分看起來我們需要溝通一下後續的溝通因為現在看起來這個教育部"},{"start":13082.898,"end":13106.185,"text":"對於未來整個社會的樣貌教育部應該扮演的角色是什麼似乎沒有很深刻的去思考我看了這份的報告還是一樣跟過去一樣的做了很多瑣碎的事項但我也跟部長報告就是教育部的事情做不完核心的問題沒有掌握的話這些事情"},{"start":13108.143,"end":13129.617,"text":"只是自私一分了,就是沒有辦法...不過我想有這一次因為包括我們的次長也都更新了所以很多政策沒有延續了不過也不需要延續啦因為展開新局啦對於過去的教育的政策你也不用負責任啦"},{"start":13130.577,"end":13154.783,"text":"你應該要展開新局看到新的東西我們兩位正式張耀萬先生次長還有葉秉成次長都非常的優秀也希望未來能夠有那個首先這個是我不曉得我們教育部有沒有看到這個問題未來往前30年台灣最重要的我一直在講最重要的是民主化"},{"start":13156.269,"end":13168.514,"text":"往後30年台灣最重要的問題是人口學的問題高齡化跟少子化這個表我這四個月也在談這個表1970年代台灣年齡中位數19.3歲2040年是52.4歲"},{"start":13176.251,"end":13181.655,"text":"這國發會做的資料 這不是我做的1970年65歲占人口2.9%2040年65歲占人口30倍"},{"start":13191.403,"end":13206.962,"text":"14歲以下1970年占3939.72040年是10.2翻天覆地教育政策有沒有把這個我整個的看到溝通的四個月我發現所有的部會都停有在1970年代"},{"start":13208.82,"end":13228.661,"text":"用這樣子的一個想像圖在規劃所有的政策如果說是這樣子的話那所有的白做來我們看一下現在我談的不是老人的問題這是年輕的問題我問了很多的大學校長你知道你的學生明年一腳踏出校園一腳就踏進超高齡社會"},{"start":13231.058,"end":13252.837,"text":"五個人就一個65歲當這個孩子30歲的時候2034年台灣一半人口超過50歲當這個孩子40歲的時候一半的人口超過60歲請問這個孩子未來是活在什麼社會部長請問這個孩子未來是活在我們現在教育的大學生未來是活在什麼社會裡面"},{"start":13256.162,"end":13282.087,"text":"陳主委所提的當然是一個高齡的社會我們有在告訴我們的孩子這樣子嗎我問了很多大學校長甚至會說我們都告訴孩子未來是在一個青春無敵的社會如果你的教育方向是這樣子我們培養孩子未來就是要看他到什麼戰場30歲40歲是他的創業不管他要做什麼最重要的如果方向"},{"start":13283.151,"end":13291.626,"text":"都搞錯了你培養的培育的東西你現在所做的這本教育教育白皮書整個政策都方向錯誤你能解決這個社會的問題嗎你能解決這年輕人的問題嗎好好的思考這個問題好不好"},{"start":13297.734,"end":13315.991,"text":"所以整個的社會未來可以預見的如果我們不改選預測的話未來高齡化造成臥床族我們現在平均臥床已經超過8年未來少子化年輕人成為躺平族整個全台灣躺成一片這個責任在教育部重中之重"},{"start":13318.527,"end":13342.521,"text":"但是我們教育部如何的漠視高齡教育這個表你們自己看的就是我們現在就終身教育師預算一年3.4億占教育部預算的0.2%這些人有多少壯世代有800萬人用3.4億平均每一個人一年教育預算40塊40元"},{"start":13348.018,"end":13374.426,"text":"大家都在問這800萬人大家都退休退休做什麼退休以後就沒事做了我們現在想像了你們對一個人的退休有想像嗎像這個校長現在就當部長當然各位但是你有想像現在800萬人沒收不知道往哪裡去政府對這一部分沒有責任嗎我們現在給他們的教育場域就是這個樣子"},{"start":13376.267,"end":13383.395,"text":"所以大家說反正高齡者不想學習啦 進菜就好啦 那有的話就教學習 好好想一下這件事情"},{"start":13384.741,"end":13411.324,"text":"那,所有的課程當中,現在就是六零大學嘛,就是養生養病養老啦基本上是以這個為主啦所以大家難怪這個沒什麼興趣事實上我在推壯世代的運動就是要把引法族翻轉為壯世代我們現在整個政府都停留在引法族思維整個所有的部會我已經溝通過四個月我深深的可以肯定的這樣子說"},{"start":13413.966,"end":13426.773,"text":"連行政院也是這樣子要翻轉成為壯世代不然這些人未來會佔人口的一半壓垮下一代下一代沒有未來你辦的教育沒有未來這是一個整個生態的問題非常簡單的數學問題"},{"start":13431.229,"end":13454.877,"text":"所以我也跟部長講壯世代在我推動四個月當中已經在立法院成立了一個最大的次團 跨黨派的我們有63個立委加入這個次團 200位學者加入這個次團 一致的重視到這個問題要來推動那教育部在這裡面扮演了非常樞紐核心的地方"},{"start":13456.351,"end":13473.963,"text":"那我在跟潘部長的時候提出一個 因為教育部現在最傷腦筋的就是少子化 很多大學要關門 估計要六十所 那大學只有 教育部只有退場機制 我告訴教育部一個 我跟潘部長講一個 說我教你一個大學不用關門的方法"},{"start":13475.212,"end":13497.674,"text":"為什麼大學只有18歲來唸呢?為什麼不是60歲來唸呢?你知道我們現在60歲有600萬人耶,這叫壯世代。壯世代最大的遺憾就是沒有進大學,因為那時候入學率很低。你知道這些人,你如果規劃出一個第三人生大學出來,有多少人要來報名嗎?"},{"start":13499.741,"end":13519.007,"text":"至少300萬人要來報名我講過到處去講的時候每一個人聽了都很興奮還問我說可不可以住校因為他不想回家禮拜六禮拜天再回家所以呢而且這些人掌握台灣三分之的財富也不用教育部補助你就好好的貴大制度出來說我大學不用關門了"},{"start":13522.292,"end":13545.665,"text":"全世界事實上也在走這樣子的路線教育部不要被那些法規綁得死死的就是一定要18歲然後很多的體制所以現在其實包括空中大學聽了以後也出來響應他希望自己成為國民的第三人生大學其實所有在包括很多現在要退場的這些大學是不是可以好好的去輔導"},{"start":13547.526,"end":13562.443,"text":"可以去好好的輔導那潘文忠部長非常現在也告訴我有交代是由次長來成立一個第三人生大學的推動小組我不曉得現在還有沒有存在部長有沒有你知道這事情嗎"},{"start":13564.448,"end":13587.486,"text":"我想第三這個人生大學這個部分我們會積極推動因為陳如委員講的終身學習是一個很重要而且我們不能認為60歲以後他只能等於說學習是什麼但是這個教育部現在這件事情還存在嗎?不是政策有沒有延續啊?因為我跟他談了4個月然後也有很多小組的成立"},{"start":13589.158,"end":13590.919,"text":"所以不要換了改朝換到以後所有事情就是當作"},{"start":13616.533,"end":13643.681,"text":"當作過言一言就不認賬因為這樣子我們前面四個月真的就是對著稻草人空轉了在場在座的很多的市長都知道這事情我們非常認真地推動了四個月那我也緊盯著所以拜託部長你的部署都完全知道這件事情所以要跟部長報告可以嗎可以跟委員報告事實上剛才聽委員的一席話"},{"start":13645.343,"end":13671.657,"text":"讓我這一個事實上振奮人心我簡單的來講大學他不應該大學基本上當然一般來講18歲但是我們現在有一些學校我是鼓勵在未來我們應該要更鬆綁簡單來講在30歲以上超過30幾萬的人口那如果我們能夠重新定位大學他到底要有一些甚至我們會慢慢"},{"start":13673.49,"end":13674.01,"text":"所以現在包括勢力大學的轉型"},{"start":13695.535,"end":13698.297,"text":"謝謝兩位,謝謝吳委員,謝謝部長。不過剛剛吳委員你所提到的退休之後的快樂睡安心吃很好"},{"start":13725.118,"end":13744.963,"text":"來我們節省時間來好謝謝吳委員你的快樂是安心吃你相信我不用等他退休在場所有人都覺得現在就可以希望做這件事好不好來我們現在我們請羅廷偉委員好謝謝主席有請部長不好意思部長"},{"start":13754.448,"end":13755.81,"text":"部長可以喝水沒關係我等你謝謝委員還會有變動嗎"},{"start":13773.919,"end":13775.92,"text":"所以大致抵定了嗎?"},{"start":13802.412,"end":13804.234,"text":"我想這幾個月我們不敢說多厲害啦因為我們畢竟才幾個月齁"},{"start":13821.653,"end":13822.173,"text":"部長你知道夜光天使計劃嗎?"},{"start":13845.111,"end":13867.544,"text":"不好意思時間正在走這個主要是客戶客戶照顧服務對象為低收入單親私親以及隔代教養的經濟弱勢國小學童我想潘文忠部長在任內有承諾我會來推動台中事辦那我想不只你會繼續推動並且如期在下一個學年度在台中事辦嗎"},{"start":13868.624,"end":13890.686,"text":"我想跟委員報告這是潘部長承諾的我們這邊會繼續來 延續來討論好謝謝您那我想葉光天使談完跟部長談一下技職教育公園院科學園區多半不會請高職畢業的人而希望要大學畢業有一般通識教育水準的人部長你認為高職有存在的必要嗎"},{"start":13892.6,"end":13921.562,"text":"我想跟委員報告高職當然還是有存在的必要好 謝謝你剛剛那句話是李遠哲講的所以他主張廢高職前教育部部長黃榮春也證實李遠哲有說過這句話我想當時這句話呢很多包括我們李遠哲談論在這樣子我想教改的一個數位委員都有提到認為高職有其代表性必要性所以不應輕言的廢職"},{"start":13922.563,"end":13933.132,"text":"所以呢費高職沒有寫入總之一報告書也從未形成政策至今高職仍然還存在著其必要的認為那你個人認為李遠哲的論述對照與現在紛紛退場的費高職是誰對誰錯"},{"start":13940.96,"end":13961.68,"text":"習多這個政策當然他有當時的時空因素在李院長當時回國的時候事實上我們那時候的學生每年超過40萬所以習多家長他們認為他們有納稅他希望他的小孩也能夠有機會去讀大學"},{"start":13963.161,"end":13988.328,"text":"那在那個思潮裡邊我們也看到了怎麼樣去讓這些青少年有更多的這些通識的一些基本素養然後產業也在升級怎麼樣去做一個適度的人才培育上的一些調整我想他有他的時空因素我想我知道時空背景不同但是我們希望聽到的是部長對於高職的重視能夠有所表態"},{"start":13989.168,"end":14015.173,"text":"我想瑞士這個國家會強盛靠的是技職教育那台灣呢退場的都是高職部長在教改的30年到現在我們到今天高職沒人要念為什麼沒人要念到底有什麼問題什麼狀況因為念了讀完了無法符合企業界或社會上的一個需求也不保證未來會有工作台灣的技職教育到底何去何從這是我們要探討的我是來自於高職"},{"start":14015.993,"end":14031.23,"text":"我自己也是高職生啊所以我要跟部長說的現階段教育部投入技職的教育在教改30年的今天有哪些成效相關的經費為何有無媒合企業界跟學校建教合作的關係其狀況為何有沒有日益增加部長"},{"start":14031.73,"end":14052.058,"text":"不用現在回答我請在會後我能夠提供更多的資料給我但是部長為何本席關心我們現在的高職技職教育因為這就是夜光天使點燈計畫的一個延伸版在實施教改前對一些經濟弱勢家庭的一個學童我們想要求知上進擺脫貧窮為了減輕家中的一個負擔"},{"start":14056.74,"end":14075.578,"text":"選擇了半工半讀的高職畢業後直接進入職場來奮鬥由黑手成為企業老闆比比皆是也有從實書本並且在讀書讀大學博士也有很多人我比如嘛我們的前立委蔡正元他念機械科然後呢"},{"start":14077.159,"end":14102.705,"text":"念高職考教育部公費留美去哈佛大學甘迺迪學院美國哥倫比亞大學念書所以部長我要講的是我們的態度我想要知道你的態度我們不應該放棄這些人我們的教育政策錯誤忽略了這一群我們希望能夠給予世才世所的教育環境這部分能夠看到您在未來的態度以及有實際的作為嗎"},{"start":14105.388,"end":14132.922,"text":"是的跟委員報告我們確實覺得台灣現在在民生很多的這個第一線上有許多的這些基礎的這個科技人才的培育我們事實上高職在這個部分是扮演很重要的一個角色我們會持續來支持甚至在未來有一些專門的學校而不是剛才委員所提的怎麼樣跟產業能夠連結我相信這個部分是我們未來會持續來努力的"},{"start":14133.622,"end":14159.87,"text":"剛剛我說提供會後的資料再麻煩你要請這個相關單位跟我瞭解一下另外我想跟你請問這個情緒管理課程相關的這些我就不用再多說了就最近的一個案例我們終結有這個隨機傷人殺人的一個事件那校方有稍微提到關於這個學生在123年級表現正常也有達到醫院實習的表現標準"},{"start":14161.05,"end":14186.231,"text":"未料在四年級呢醫院實習的狀況出現狀況我想而停止了實習這個是他個人的一個狀況我們不便多談但是我想要了解的是我們近年來隨著社會壓力增加心理健康問題的一個普遍開始產生了一些問題包括智商自殺以及相關的案件越來越多我想對於情緒管理對於學生的一個整體發展"},{"start":14186.972,"end":14213.904,"text":"健康至關重要根據世界衛生組織所提供的相關資料我們可以看到全球每年約有20%的青少年面臨心理健康的問題其中很大一部分就是由於缺乏有效的情緒管理技能所致所以本席認為這個情緒管理的課程不僅對於我們學校的學生應對日常生活的壓力還能顯著的減少暴力行為心理問題可以有"},{"start":14215.325,"end":14225.809,"text":"很著作的一個幫助我想情緒管理課程設置以重視的一個程度不曉得在這個部分您可以表態嗎可以給予我們具體的一個相關實際的政策嗎"},{"start":14228.537,"end":14248.951,"text":"我想謝謝委員的一個指教本來這個推動校園的心理健康我們就有許多的一些促進計畫包括社會情緒的這些的管理的許多的小團體也好或者班級的一些經營怎麼樣去融入我相信那都是我們目前在做一個非常重要的也希望能夠讓"},{"start":14250.652,"end":14255.016,"text":"所以我說部長請問未來有計劃在這個中小學情緒管理課程來做設置嗎是否考慮將情緒管理課程納入學校的必修課程的一個考慮"},{"start":14274.511,"end":14276.892,"text":"我想教師的部份教育部是否可以引入更多的培訓項目幫助老師做情緒管理的教案"},{"start":14290.96,"end":14311.929,"text":"我想108課綱注重了一個全能教育包括社會情緒的學習已經被放在裡面其中裡面還包括自我察覺自我管理以及社會察覺人際技巧以及承擔決定我想自我察覺正好就是契合了108課綱對學生全面的一個追求進而去培養我們學生的核心素養"},{"start":14312.529,"end":14331.548,"text":"我想本席希望教育部要重視這個部分讓情緒管理能夠儘速的全面普及我們一起加油這個部分可以嗎當然我也要檢討這個潘部長的一些教育政策的一個落實進度我想跟你能夠做一個探討我想在聊未來的一個施政願景我們也要先從過去的一個政策來做一個相關的檢討"},{"start":14332.349,"end":14361.294,"text":"因為還是有一些事情還沒有要做到以及準備要做的我們應該還是要看看包括之前有說的要補助公立國中小的一個冷氣電費但是後來呢4月漲了電價有媒體報導說班班有冷氣機但是班班不敢開冷氣還有一些某些國小的老師拒絕開冷氣電扇僅能開10分鐘這是媒體報導我不知道但是請問部長有實際達成補助的初衷嗎"},{"start":14362.785,"end":14389.696,"text":"我們現在在跟委員報告一般性的這個電費的補助我們一年有12億好這一次動長這個校園電價我想教育部也有幫忙但是我要說的斑斑有冷氣以及深深有平板後面牽扯到就是電費電價到底會不會變成是家長要買單以及我們當初補助的初衷我們要持續的來關注再來就是我們的營養午餐法制化"},{"start":14390.436,"end":14397.749,"text":"我想這個部分已經有立法院已經有17個草案待排審就是吃等不到教育部的草案請問什麼時候"},{"start":14405.149,"end":14407.09,"text":"請問有沒有大概一個時間表?這個會期 初步已經完成兩次審查了"},{"start":14422.614,"end":14445.592,"text":"好 我們希望能夠加速那接下來是教育部承諾的要在3年內逐年調整幼兒園師生比1到121比12的一個目標並且提前達成的話會給予獎勵本席想請問一下教育部部長是目前的進度為何是超前還是落後現在獎勵是否足以鼓勵幼兒園改善師生比您這部分有掌握嗎"},{"start":14447.227,"end":14466.478,"text":"我們目前大概這個希望能夠在114年公共化幼兒園在114學年度能夠達到可以達成師生比試到1比12當然我知道這個是我們的逐年在做的一個目標但是我講實際的啦您聽聽看部長"},{"start":14468.379,"end":14494.58,"text":"我認真跟你希望降低師生比1比12其實乾脆一點我們是逐年要給予更高額的一個補助讓他們想要在今年就做那這就是我們先加強補助嘛所以我講的只要能在114年達到師生比可調整到位1比12的就給予調整收費數額或者是給予更高額的一個補助讓我們的家長"},{"start":14495.481,"end":14511.127,"text":"原所以及教育部的政策能夠三贏我想如果調整數額會讓我們感受到會不會讓家長有損失我們可以給予更高額的補助讓他們願意提前嘛如果在114年達不到的"},{"start":14511.847,"end":14537.109,"text":"我想這個部分我們就要給予部分的檢討甚至115年達到才達到的我們甚至就是遞減持續的遞減持續的補助遞減收費數額檢討我想這才是一場公平的競爭公平的法則現在搞得亂七八糟我想這個部分能不能給予更高的一個補助更高的一個協助這部分您覺得呢"},{"start":14538.39,"end":14562.412,"text":"我想我們目前確實是公幼跟准公幼還有一般私立學校他有一些不同的一些期程那我想我們在我們這個會後我們的這個委員會裡邊再來細部的因為目前我們還是有看到有降低師生比1比12的原所已經達成的喔那人家先達成的都笨蛋"},{"start":14563.442,"end":14564.323,"text":"我同意委員應該給予支持和獎勵"},{"start":14594.363,"end":14610.345,"text":"因為今天是10分鐘加2分鐘我想給每個委員20分鐘都應該是一樣的好來謝謝羅廷萬委員謝謝部長那我們接下來先來處理臨時提案那我想我們目前為止有委員提出臨時提案共6案我們請宣讀"},{"start":14612.557,"end":14636.263,"text":"有鑑於體育署升格成立體育運動發展部為各政黨共事主張拜卿的總統就職演說提及將成立體育及運動發展部為落實該政策主張教育部與體育署應定定推動時間表與各項進程細節並於兩個月內回復立法院教育文化委員會提案人林倩琦克之和洪孟凱第二案有鑑於巴黎奧運將於7月26日結幕"},{"start":14638.343,"end":14654.51,"text":"選手順利於7月18日開放選手入主為能讓我國代表隊伍及選手無後顧之憂先全力參賽請外交部交通部教育部及體育署從航空機位交通運輸到行李服裝裝備等需求應做好安全準備並隨時檢視與主動追蹤"},{"start":14658.212,"end":14679.172,"text":"對於各屆遊戲有關因戰事需提防恐攻事件：也因爲與籌謀防範未然進行假設性的各種沙盤推演以上各項進度與資訊請於兩週內回復立法院教育文化委員會提案人林倩琦克之恩洪孟凱第三案有鑑於開放陸生來台確實能對於大學退場倒閉潮有所注意"},{"start":14680.073,"end":14700.41,"text":"賴清澤總統就職演說提及恢復中國學位生來台教育部鄭部長也強調未來將落實賴總統政策讓兩岸的年輕人有更健康互用機會以及更多學習認識有助於瞭解彼此這將是一個好的發展為避免恐慌不實建起教育部開誠布公積極推進四步驟"},{"start":14702.353,"end":14717.737,"text":"請教育部因經濟核定而啟動．落實學衛生來台政策．並於一個月內回復立法院教育文化委員會第二月年限及各職公盲改．第4案建議足球青年聯賽之推動發展部分．雖為國內家長與基層球員所期盼．"},{"start":14721.278,"end":14744.034,"text":"然回顧本案由體育署指定補助中華足協辦理之歷程．可發現中華足協在賽程賽務與社會溝通上．均呈現消極被動狀態．仿若本案為體育署強迫執行之業務．同時體育署亦無認可約束監督之能力．致使家長失望喪失正補．原先補助美育"},{"start":14744.975,"end":14768.143,"text":"原因要求教育部針對而後有關青年足球聯賽之補助或委辦均因採公開說明方式以競爭行經費執行相關預算補助提供賽務辦理單位自我精進與強化溝通改善問題之動力落實政府協助美意提案人曾配慾郭益勤承受保固配意第5萬"},{"start":14769.343,"end":14793.057,"text":"針對我國運動禁藥防治基金會建議傳出因利益衝突迴避問題致使世界反禁藥組織來含爭議查體育署近年年度均編列超過3000萬元委辦費用然在相關問題之掌握與監督卻付之確如導致該組織內控風險在本次事件後更為提高"},{"start":14794.372,"end":14818.184,"text":"原請教育部一個院內針對下列事項啟動調查：並向立法院教育及文化委員會提出書面報告因現行禁藥防止基金會所有人員與社址之可能利益衝突風險二如我國因基金會違規遭瓦解處罰而導致我國所有協會與選手受到不利處分時體育署研擬的作為及SOP"},{"start":14819.384,"end":14844.896,"text":"3、本次事件禁藥防治基金會與WADA所有往來的信件及事件處理時間軸4、體育署就運動禁藥防治基金會之監督機制委辦經費用途與測競作為5、5月3日禁藥防治基金會董事長、體育署派員名單與召請出會議理由6、巡迴就職行長辭職聲明下架原因"},{"start":14846.096,"end":14860.924,"text":"復建一期評估成立行政法人國家運動禁藥管制中心可行性提案人陳培玉郭益勤吳培益陳秀寶第6案教育部體育署成立11年未辦理全國體育業務而面對國際體育運動發展潮流發展運動產業有其必要"},{"start":14866.727,"end":14889.962,"text":"亦為賴清德總統體育政見中成立體育界運動發展部原因之一．並提出體育預算突破新台幣200億元等政見．原建請教育部體育署可參佐強化社會甲組棒球隊組訓實施計畫．鼓勵各縣市投入其他單項運動之社會甲組球隊．"},{"start":14893.243,"end":14916.695,"text":"後時該單項運動競技人才．並具體提出能讓更多企業參加之誘因．讓企業能從民間創業器材研發教練增能．外籍教練協助用而運動體驗等加以投入．使企業能做相關意願．結合扶持運動產業來協助其選手及運動有更多元素．"},{"start":14917.475,"end":14937.668,"text":"是信之發展提案委員陳培宇 郭益勤 張雅琳 吳佩奕 蘇喬蔚宣的完畢好我們先來處理喔然後我們看第一案提案委員有沒有提出說明的您簽字委員要不要提出說明我們就這樣子OK然後教育部這邊"},{"start":14940.286,"end":14961.395,"text":"謝謝主席這個第一案我們就配合辦理好那我們就是照案通過那第二案提案委員第二案林倩琦委員有沒有提出說明沒有好那教育部這邊我們也配合辦理好那我們就照案通過那第三部分林倩琦委員沒有好沒有要說多多說明教育部"},{"start":14967.475,"end":14972.941,"text":"根據報告我們也配合辦理好配合辦理那我們就照案通過那第4案陳培宇委員我想先勸一下部長這邊的回應"},{"start":14982.54,"end":14999.691,"text":"這裡邊跟委員報告我們是不是能夠在第三行的後半段仿若本案到第四行的同時這能夠把它刪除然後修正這個體育署因強化把這個義無認可這幾個字刪除"},{"start":15002.313,"end":15002.573,"text":"主席"},{"start":15022.265,"end":15037.252,"text":"不好意思部長剛剛您的幕僚來溝通的時候前面那一段要修正了我沒有意見但是現在說要把以競爭型經費執行相關預算補助刪掉的原因可不可以請相關還是署長說的沒問題"},{"start":15038.573,"end":15066.333,"text":"我想因為青年聯賽從上個會期有不少的委員希望能夠我們去協助足球協會在辦理青年聯賽這件事情去做補助那我們也的確蠻強化這部分但是的確他們在去年舉辦的情況的確沒有很多地方沒有達到家長的這個期待那但是畢竟青年賽他還是屬於足球協會自己的賽事而且他也是一個特定體育團體那是不是容許委員這邊我們去組成一個任務小組去加強他的輔導事實上我們也在將在這幾天會"},{"start":15067.894,"end":15090.434,"text":"召開一個會議由您教授幫我們一起來整個檢視他整個的賽制以及他的執行的方式我們是不是可以在今年還是用輔導的角度來去強力的去介入去他的賽制符合我們家長的這個期待因為畢竟這個賽制還是屬於足協自己的那當然我們也可以說不要補助但是我覺得這樣也不好啦我們是不是能更正面一點來處理這件事情"},{"start":15091.455,"end":15113.217,"text":"剛剛我有看到張亮次長有點頭我想說署長你自己剛剛也有公開說明確實竹協在去年從本來應該去年半相關的很多爭議我覺得他不只是家長滿不滿意而是我想署長你一定也非常清楚然後我相信司要委員應該也很清楚因為在司要委員的選區也有相關的社區的隊伍"},{"start":15113.757,"end":15137.202,"text":"那大家都知道小孩不要只送進體育班其實在社區聯賽裡面其實也比較呼應後續賴總統希望體育署升級對於體育發展運動部的想像關於社區聯賽或者是俱樂部或者是產業的部分我覺得必須要把這個觀念再放進來所以我們才會希望不要只有在讀後足協那當然我也認同因為它確實是一個"},{"start":15138.602,"end":15138.742,"text":"報告員：我們"},{"start":15157.208,"end":15183.813,"text":"也有補助其他的團體跟政府在聯賽的部分都有但是我指的是青年聯賽這個部分我好對不起我重說如果還是要在青年聯賽這個部分你們還是希望有足協來主辦然後你們是補助經費的角色但是你願意強化監督的功能還有輔助他們把相關的行政業務還有跟家長溝通甚至賽程的安排我想署長您非常清楚"},{"start":15184.473,"end":15207.521,"text":"賽程的安排他到底是盃賽的心情在排聯賽還是他真的是聯賽的心情在排聯賽那個差別很大我想署長你的專業一定可以理解我今天要再次在公開錄影強調這件事情所以我目前今天的版本我願意接受調整我看到體育署的善意可是我要再次強調也要真的拜託次長這件事情他真的已經有很大很大的民怨了那"},{"start":15207.901,"end":15234.974,"text":"在所有的社區聯賽的粉專或者是家長社團當中大家看不見那個體育署更好的想像跟可能性所以我們才會提出這個臨時提案好嗎包委員我也增加一點就是說基本上除了主席的這個前年聯賽當然其他的單位如果願意舉辦類似同年齡層的我們也都會去盡可能去支持當然還要考慮到他們會不會太多比賽之類的但是這部分我們不排除"},{"start":15236.134,"end":15258.564,"text":"就像剛剛次長提醒的其實很多民間的單位自己已經出錢出力做了其實去年非常多非常多精彩的比賽自己出錢出力了所以如果你們真的也願意站在支持社區聯賽然後支持社區運動俱樂部的概念我們當然都支持我相信立法院在預算上絕對支持那是不是就再確定一次文字的修正就是那一段拿掉可是你們會加強相關的輔導跟監督"},{"start":15260.976,"end":15261.036,"text":"第5案"},{"start":15277.31,"end":15303.918,"text":"是不是也請我們鄭署長先說明一下第5案有需要改變嗎?對 包委員就是針對委員北議委員提的第7條評估成立行政法人的運動禁藥管制中心的可行性我很清楚這目前只是委員只是要求我們評估啦但是我還是跟委員這邊對已經報告也就是說基本上我們現在還是很擔心說有國家介入的情況因為在要檢這件事情這一次的"},{"start":15305.278,"end":15330.609,"text":"要檢組織他們對外界產生的這個疑慮就是因為這件事情他們有懂事有去兼很多一些政府相關的職務或是訓練相關的職務那我今天如果用行政法人在一個類公務體系的方式來成立那豈不是更令人擔心所以這件事情是不是能請委員能夠考慮這部分我們是不是可以刪除"},{"start":15334.059,"end":15340.462,"text":"好但是我先說那其他我們之前因為在質詢的時候也討論過然後我們辦公室助理也很認真跟體育署討論過目前我們所有擔心可能會影響選手出賽權益的風險是不是署長這邊也都有在積極的進行相關監督是沒有錯"},{"start":15349.386,"end":15372.127,"text":"那所以我們裡面包含提的下架聲明的原因然後相關招請出會議的理由或者是更強烈的監督機制確保選手權益這件事情因為我想署長你自己也非常清楚我們台灣當年之所以要自己成立這個這個相關的機構法人就是因為中國在挖打的影響力很大那我們自己有自己的機制來處理這件事情那我覺得"},{"start":15372.808,"end":15372.828,"text":"報告員．"},{"start":15390.001,"end":15406.7,"text":"1到6基本上我們都同意 我們也的確會有順便報告只是說第7點因為還是有利益衝突的可能性啦所以這部分請 評估啊 可以沒有問題 評估啊 不可行就不可行啊我剛剛說我沒有堅持 只是說我先跟委員報告有這樣子的疑慮 我也沒有正面要求你一定要只是評估啊 是是是"},{"start":15408.815,"end":15427.872,"text":"好,所以怎麼樣,趙委員的意見7條都保留,照案通過嗎?可以嗎?配合辦理,好,那你們剛剛講了3分50秒,OK,好,來,我們就照案通過,來,我們第6案,來,培育委員,對不起,這是,對,提案人,誰要說明一下?都可以嗎?欸,哈囉,第6案"},{"start":15433.926,"end":15434.407,"text":"我們請吳思瑤委員時間4分鐘"},{"start":15464.67,"end":15465.892,"text":"好,謝謝主席,請部長來,謝謝部長"},{"start":15474.882,"end":15496.629,"text":"這個是我過去9年關心的事情我只有4分鐘新任的部長我想我們過去也都有很多對話那我聚焦在高教的部分未來國教會在受教育您高教部分四大重點我會提出重點未來逐一希望您列入重要的施政方針我會逐一在後續繼續來跟您來討論推進第一個就是國際教育專法的立法"},{"start":15501.75,"end":15522.781,"text":"第2個是思瑤倡議很久那謝謝大家現在都跟上來了校園新府制度的全面提升第3個也是吳思瑤發起的新宿舍運動2.0好還要更好第4個就是催生青年基本法的立法思瑤也是立法院第1個來推出專法的立委我會持續來跟大家合作下一頁"},{"start":15523.701,"end":15542.82,"text":"所以我看到您長期觀察您您有很多的理念跟我長期的倡議很一致比如說我一直在說大學退場之外整病三種方式公私病不要放棄這樣子的可行性第二個我一直在說台灣要作為國際教育的一個很重要的國家所以您今年也有"},{"start":15543.26,"end":15561.502,"text":"再往美國區域由中山大學跟美國四校來簽訂MOU您作為大學校長的鄭英耀都做得很到位現在您的身份轉變為部長下一頁有更大的能量所以我再次提出不好意思我今天只能夠講述我的重點可能您再回去會後做研議"},{"start":15562.623,"end":15589.195,"text":"三件齊發高教的轉型第一端當然是退場跟整病所以退場我們已經立法在進行整病的部分公病公私病私都有一些案例公病私我希望鄭英耀部長可以依您過去鄭英耀校長的一些倡議持續不放棄去研議所有的可行性他畢竟是一個solution一種可行性第二請看我右下角來回來也就是"},{"start":15592.708,"end":15619.243,"text":"回流教育跟終生學習是我們開放式大學雙軌推動很重要的一個方向也要持續去做我認為過去只做了一半沒有持續的大破大立第三軌就是發揮臺灣國際教育以及海外學習不管input或output我們都有很大的能量所以催生國際教育的專法這是對於高教轉型的三件啟發缺一不可請您記錄下來好下頁"},{"start":15621.264,"end":15636.297,"text":"所以台灣可以利用教育來成為在世界國家軟實力輸出的以教育成為一個國家新品牌有很多的理由我會後都會提供給您我想這請您過去的國際教育專法推了4年多沒頂沒擋連一個嘗試推出的立法都沒有您個人覺得有沒有這個必要有沒有這個可行性下一頁部長國際教育專法"},{"start":15651.152,"end":15668.418,"text":"我想跟委員報告國際專法是不是要這個設置在我的看法就是怎麼樣去支持我們大學在國際教育上國際學術交流上能夠達到一個正向的一個我想我們會全力來支持"},{"start":15669.318,"end":15677.104,"text":"部長我先點出來我這裡總整出我認為臺灣需要一部國際教育專法的很多理由我希望後續也能夠有專案報告我們再進一步來論述請您記錄下來好嗎好下一頁再來謝謝您我在2022年10月20率先質詢所有的公立大學校長首先倡議要來進行大學的心理駕而中山大學就是第一個司要還沒質詢先就先做了你們跟實踐好下一頁"},{"start":15697.76,"end":15724.397,"text":"所以這幾年來學生踴躍的來倡議發聲下一頁所以呢從當初我質詢前的兩校現在有43校非常好持續來支持各大學推進好下一頁那高中已經向下延伸了目前42個學校來試辦那高中端叫做身心調適下也請部長持續來協助好嗎這時間很急迫啊這個我壓力好大我需要身心調適這樣好下一頁"},{"start":15726.909,"end":15734.052,"text":"提醒您學生輔導法未修之前我們用預算來補貼目前國立學校21校私立大學51校已經能夠做到1比900的緣額未修法前有國立大學13校私立大學28校做到1比1000換言之還有三兩成多的學校沒有跟上來繼續去follow他好嗎ok好下一頁"},{"start":15750.18,"end":15762.656,"text":"這是我整體對於大學新府制度的一個完整論述我也會一併提供給新任部長好持續來推動好下一頁那新宿舍運動目前加入的大學是65%我們4件起發從1.0到2.0下一頁"},{"start":15768.283,"end":15784.096,"text":"我請部長持續支持新宿舍運動的2.0持續擴大學生的參與讓使用者的需求可以被實踐好下一頁那麼要提點給您的就是我爭取了第一次的五年五十億是1.02.0陳建仁院長同意編列五年33億我希望您有幾個精進的做法請看最下方就是從一校一案要延伸到一校多案有些學校不是只有一棟宿舍嗎"},{"start":15795.845,"end":15821.683,"text":"第2個經費的加碼從本每床4.2萬提升到5.2萬第3個那是因為公共工程的這個經費提升第3個從改善公共空間到進入寢室空間的改善最後一個多元功能的置入包括心腹諮商的功能可不可以在宿舍實踐性別友善跟育兒友善要在各校實踐這些等於都是加分題只要各校提出這樣的方案他就可以通過審查小組願意"},{"start":15823.965,"end":15823.985,"text":"拍攝﹚"},{"start":15839.878,"end":15839.898,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":15868.675,"end":15883.044,"text":"我也讓你充分表達所以我很民主好不好謝謝謝謝部長好接下來我們請鄭天才委員同樣時間4分鐘主席各位委員有請部長部長"},{"start":15901.136,"end":15927.21,"text":"來部長好今天的這個教育部的報告特別提到這個族群共榮的原民教育提了這個六大項都非常非常的重要但是很可惜原住民教育的向上提升這裡面都沒有提到讓部長來了解這個我已經提了很多次"},{"start":15928.82,"end":15945.812,"text":"近五年,原住民大專校院學生的出在學歷,這個差距越來越大。部長你看一下,107學年度,差距,原住民跟全國的差距是31.9,現在111學年度,差距是32.4,還拉大,拉大。"},{"start":15953.888,"end":15972.23,"text":"中華民國憲法徵修條文第10條第12項規定國家對原住民的教育應該要保障輔助及發展原住民族教育法民國87年就制定了原住民族教育法"},{"start":15973.135,"end":16002.236,"text":"這裡面特別提到政府應依原住民組織民族意願保障原住民教育之潛力便宜原住民首席的人才以利原住民族發展原住民族教育法第23條規定高級中等以上學校應保障原住民學生入學及就學的機會剛看了那個差距32%點多這個差距真的是非常大"},{"start":16004.689,"end":16009.906,"text":"這個原住民生血保障辦法95年的時候修正了"},{"start":16011.055,"end":16039.155,"text":"跟部長說明原住民的身血保障本來沒有所謂的外加只要加分之後就可以進去那因為後來95年改為外加之後外加2%所以我們很多的學生就去念私立的大學私立的大專校院去念的話就很貴我們的經濟又沒有辦法負擔這是一個很大的因素之一那我們看所以我在這個"},{"start":16042.157,"end":16059.24,"text":"當立委之後特別協調教育部當初修正了這個保障辦法特別提高特別增加了條文可以專案調高比例可以專案調高比例這法律法規已經明定了"},{"start":16060.68,"end":16066.542,"text":"當初質詢葉俊隆部長特別開始規劃專案調高5%所以從108年協年度開始就有專案調高5%經過幾年之後不斷不斷的要求一個一個增加科系但是這個科系還是很少"},{"start":16088.154,"end":16112.114,"text":"啊,專案調高5%的科系還是很少所以為辦理專案調高的科系有整個學校有67所總共1102個系所現在很多的學校啊都招不招不足學生呢為什麼不專案調高5%呢讓我們整個"},{"start":16117.307,"end":16144.437,"text":"原住民大專學生的出債協力的差距反而越來越大這個是部長你上任之後應該第一個要去解決的是這個問題對不對大學不是現在找子女化嗎為什麼不讓我們我們何況也不占一般的學生的名額啊對不對現在就外加都全部改外加嘛所有的建議"},{"start":16145.836,"end":16145.856,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":16165.885,"end":16166.165,"text":"五十六點五"},{"start":16181.499,"end":16181.959,"text":"那另外﹖"},{"start":16198.384,"end":16212.856,"text":"這個5%這個部分我想那是沒有問題目前我們在大學院校有8.38%然後基礎院校提供6.62%但是我們原住民學生看起來報考演第一"},{"start":16213.556,"end":16240.345,"text":"我們這個提供的名額所以這個部分我想怎麼樣去協助嚴明的同學能夠更順利的在這個大學裡邊他選擇他喜歡的相關科系我想這比較更細節的部分我想我們可以來我的最好的處理方式就是把升學保障辦法外加百分之二全部改為外加百分之五就可以解決這個問題好不好"},{"start":16242.587,"end":16243.289,"text":"接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":16265.919,"end":16277.695,"text":"主席在場的委員先進列席的政府機關省官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生而有請鄭部長和我們彭署長好鄭部長跟彭署長謝謝"},{"start":16283.466,"end":16295.595,"text":"部長好 署長好 很開心在這裡見到鄭部長但是我看到您的業務報告我真的更開心了我在這第5頁裡面看到幾個題目活化校園 把閒置空間變成實作空間統一金融專長師資 集中聘用 然後巡迴資源"},{"start":16301.479,"end":16319.885,"text":"實驗中學提供員工子女及鄰里學區和實驗中學的雙語部提升學生運能力以師培大學來協助教師提升雙語教學能力部長短短一夜把我過去在教委會跟過去在當屏東縣副縣長"},{"start":16321.765,"end":16339.002,"text":"這些非都地區的地方國民教育需求都一網打盡了謝謝但是我還是要強調幾個地方就是我在4月11號的時候呢針對評科時鐘謝謝我們教育部的支持我出來引進太空課程之後我希望能夠融入一個思維就線上課程有遠距生"},{"start":16340.023,"end":16363.234,"text":"我們的學籍生是以在學區裡面入學的學籍生我希望創設一個遠距生他的學籍還在原校但他可以用遠距的方式來參與學習第二個海外師資的遠距教學我們不要只限定在國內或偏鄉的老師用遠距教學讓其他縣市甚至國外的師資也可以來擔任偏鄉的老師您覺得這個方向可以研究嗎"},{"start":16364.739,"end":16373.465,"text":"我想怎麼樣去統合這一個資源來提升我們的人才培育的品質跟機會這個當然都是值得努力的"},{"start":16395.839,"end":16400.6,"text":"但是我仔細算了一下嚴格來講這個策略在六都或是在新竹市是有效但是呢如果把這個錢換算成給非都地區的"},{"start":16419.685,"end":16434.349,"text":"其實你會發現如果你去補足我們非都地區的幼兒園教師他所需要的差額下一頁他的人事費反而比他們所得到的家長的幼兒金補助要來得更有效益這邊要花120億這邊只要花40億再下來其實什麼原因因為公"},{"start":16439.793,"end":16467.356,"text":"民間業者他因為市場規模他集中在都會地區反而偏鄉地區非山非市他不會去因此你們發現大部分的民間業集中在六都往下看所以非山非市他們沒有要去所以這個地區的學家長的需求他需要公立的學校來提供再往下看但是因為我們目前有一個情況我們在非都地區非山非市的國小婦幼我們沒有提供課後照顧"},{"start":16468.337,"end":16489.13,"text":"所以他不像有安親班都會有安親班所以家長要兩段式而且找不到業者所以乾脆把孩子哪裡從偏鄉送到都會地區結果是什麼原因往下看結果政府給他教育補助他反而拿到更高的都會地區去消費而且在國小的幼教沒辦法維持再往下看"},{"start":16490.134,"end":16501.951,"text":"所以幼兒園的園區他考量到這是私幼的私幼的家長的補貼之後他去分更高的資金租金再往下看所以另外我們幼教的從業人員"},{"start":16503.683,"end":16522.588,"text":"民間的非公幼的幼兒園雖然業者得到了大量透過家長的補貼的這些收入但是呢錢都花在哪裡發在房租上他們的薪資普遍不高再往下看所以我們偏鄉或非山非市的地方真的很難找到私資再往下看所以我建議一個關鍵點"},{"start":16524.969,"end":16553.075,"text":"我們用專案10年契約禁用這個概念是來自於國防部我們的基層職職軍官我們基本上就是不要讓他用那個軍校出來的終身職的那個志願軍官我們用一個契約的方式來禁用是否可以考慮根據我們幼教法第22條他可以根據勞基法來禁用禁用之後他也可以做課後的照顧可以延長課後的托育那這種情況下你只要給他足夠的薪水"},{"start":16553.675,"end":16557.46,"text":"他願意到偏鄉去服務先講到這裡部長你覺得這個方案可以考慮嗎我想我們來看跟地方怎麼樣來合作其實不是地方的需求你要溝通的其實兩個單位一個是主計總處"},{"start":16569.926,"end":16573.127,"text":"主席總署同不同意用10年的預算規模方式去用勞基法經用一個10年的契約,那有什麼好處呢?我很簡短的說一下,因為主席在看,往下看。我們各地偏鄉,我們屏東陸續在廢校。"},{"start":16589.753,"end":16605.981,"text":"﹗"},{"start":16606.101,"end":16620.369,"text":"因為你如果沒有留住這些偏鄉的學齡前孩子國小一定要廢校因為如果他在學齡前跟著父母阿公阿嬤顧不了跟著父母的工作地到都會地區去寄那他就不會再回到偏鄉來念國小了"},{"start":16621.73,"end":16647.128,"text":"反而偏鄉其實還能提供教育品質是很好的最後一頁所以我希望說另外呢我們也讓這些專案教保人員可以培養二項專長未來可以作為我們國小教師的儲備軍因為現在我們未來的國小教師會面臨到很嚴重的人才斷層現在平均年齡每年在升高為什麼欲缺不補所以呢會老化會造成我們四培大學造不到生也會造成流浪教師找不到工作最後一個結論下一頁就沒有了就拜託你好好做謝謝"},{"start":16652.725,"end":16667.159,"text":"好,謝謝部長,謝謝中央兵委員各位,我們現在這一次是我們立法院是研會所以我們會常常請教育部來我們這邊好不好所以各位還是有很多機會的現在是1點08分的各位把握時間好,接下來部長,好吧那你就喝口水"},{"start":16676.446,"end":16677.007,"text":"范芸委員"},{"start":16688.353,"end":16704.378,"text":"謝謝委員部長午安今天算是您第一次來我們教文委員會備詢我想剛剛很多委員問了您很多議題我今天比較是想要針對大方向上跟您交換意見所以沒有什麼可怕的問題要問您"},{"start":16707.93,"end":16732.47,"text":"那第一個我想您應該有看到新聞我有看到剛剛委員也問過您要做的三件事那我想您要做的三件事都蠻好的那我在潘部長最後一次備詢的時候我有問他說潘部長有哪三大修法是您想完成卻未完成的就是未盡之業那不知道您有沒有看到這個新聞鄭部長"},{"start":16735.447,"end":16753.528,"text":"是跟委員報告有那您知道他講的那個三大他想要修但是來不及完成的法是哪三法嗎答錯沒關係我只是想說不曉得您知不知道一個是應該是學生心理對學夫法那一個是青年"},{"start":16757.34,"end":16760.721,"text":"我主要印象比較深刻的是在心理輔導法沒有應該跟委員報告我基本上是有一些訊息我並沒有充分掌握是"},{"start":16775.267,"end":16775.847,"text":"學生輔導法 營養午餐條例 大學法"},{"start":16793.514,"end":16805.302,"text":"判補長當時的這三大未完成的重要法案跟我的看法完全一樣我之前沒有跟判部長套過招他就是在最後一次回應的我想因為您剛上任也蠻需要時間了解的我認為就是判部長講的這三大法案"},{"start":16813.388,"end":16839.255,"text":"真的蠻重要的也是目前就是還蠻需要的那教育部也需要準備那所以部長您是不是可以承諾就是會展開布板的工程我知道有些你們已經有準備了有些還沒有準備了因為對我們來講我們委員都有版本在立法院裡面一讀通過但是蠻需要教育部全盤的考量到時候一起討論的話我想那個修法可行性才會最高"},{"start":16841.442,"end":16857.459,"text":"我想謝謝委員的一個關心那潘部長當時所提到的這個學生輔導法營養午餐條例以及大學法我想他確實都是我們現在對教育學校教育裡邊從不同面向共同關心的一些議題我們會來努力"},{"start":16858.86,"end":16877.81,"text":"好那就請那個教育部積極努力那能夠及早在準備好的情況下提出來那今天我另外想就三大主軸跟三大教育階段跟您交換意見那對我來講我一直看待教育的話第一個教師權益教師權益沒有顧好的話教育就很難做好"},{"start":16881.732,"end":16907.25,"text":"學生的受教權如何讓學生安心學習第三個就是我們的制度環境教育階段我想您也非常了解我們有高教就是我們新來的次長還有國教兩位都會協助您高教國教另外還有教育部還有一個右教所以我想就這三大主軸跟三大教育跟您交換意見首先當然就是高教那高教"},{"start":16908.13,"end":16932.64,"text":"剛剛已經提到了就是大學這個治理的法制目前不只是學生不滿意教育團體教師也不滿意甚至校長也其實都有一些也許跟教師跟學生方向不一樣可是也都覺得有蠻多議題需要就大學治理的方式能夠有討論那之前潘部長跟劉次長最後一次被選的時候有答應說會去規劃高教國式會議"},{"start":16936.862,"end":16954.33,"text":"還答應要納入交接清單要請新部長來研議不知道那個交接清單你有收到嗎藉由高教國式會議廣邀教育團體大學教師然後校長和學生一起來討論看看能不能達成共識"},{"start":16955.916,"end":16978.157,"text":"我想高等教育從我當時在擔任中山大學校長的時候大概大家都有一些想像怎麼讓老師能夠更專業然後讓學生也能夠擴大這一個學生的一些對校務發展的一個參與我想那都是大家都那個方向基本上大家都有一些共識也有一些想法"},{"start":16979.318,"end":16980.118,"text":"教育部長鄭英耀列席報告"},{"start":17002.507,"end":17024.927,"text":"謝謝委員我想那個方向是我們怎麼樣去理解利害關係人相關的一些權益我想那都是用什麼樣的一個形式能夠展現重點是能夠真正聽到第一線上不管老師學生或者在大學治理裡面的實質的經營者的一些聲音我想我們來努力"},{"start":17026.607,"end":17051.992,"text":"謝謝部長願意努力另外我也想提醒部長的是這個私校退場條例24條版本最近在我們大院被禁服惡毒那外界非常的憂慮除了程序上完全跳過我們過去這個常常都有跨黨派共識的教育文化委員會之外外界憂慮的是這個版本裡面在私校列專府後"},{"start":17052.432,"end":17074.178,"text":"增加了一年徵求財團接續辦學的期間那這會不會讓財團透過各種租稅土地優惠然後累積起來的效產就是變成就是好像沒有經過很好的評估被奪取那當然這個有可能是過濾可是因為沒有在教育文化委員會裡面討論那我們擔心專業度會有問題那這部分也請那個部長要關切"},{"start":17080.82,"end":17103.157,"text":"另外一個相關的問題是不知道部長知不知道上個月楊交大跟群聯電子以產學合作的名義在他們的客家學院沒有需求的情況下破壞了六家聚落說要興建大樓後來是因為師生強烈抗議之後才作罷部長您知道這件事嗎?"},{"start":17104.429,"end":17118.781,"text":"我知道你知道齁那我想這件事情讓我們去反思我們過去推動過的產創條例或者是相關的規定是不是也應該要仔細檢視因為這個不是單一的個案還有蠻多其他的相關爭議的那當時是一個非常就是用意良好的一個產創條例可是如果變成就是變相的搶奪資源"},{"start":17132.873,"end":17153.312,"text":"那卻沒有產學合作支持的話我想就會失去了當時的這個良好的用意那是不是也請部長注意這件事情把幾個個案請我們高教司讓我們也有高教出身的次長一起協僱好好的檢視看相關的條例或者是規定有沒有檢討的必要好不好"},{"start":17154.584,"end":17163.09,"text":"謝謝委員提醒這樣才講完高教就只剩兩分鐘了我想國教的部分剛剛很多委員都提到了108課綱我個人覺得執行上他理念初中很好剛剛大家都講到執行上學生有很多壓力多元選修的城鄉差距也需要解決"},{"start":17177.979,"end":17192.943,"text":"畢竟我們是鼓勵學生自我探索可是如何在壓力不要增加那麼多的情況下自我探索我覺得這是相關要去努力的另外我也接受到教師們的陳情以全教種來講他們看到的是其實他們不少人是已經感受到108課綱的正面的空間只是教師覺得負擔過重"},{"start":17204.826,"end":17222.613,"text":"獲得足夠的資源那多元選修目前的規劃並沒有給老師鼓勵因為我們自己都教過說一個新的課程需要備課那需要花更多的力氣所以如何就教師的部分給予支持我也是覺得在國教上應該要努力"},{"start":17224.013,"end":17224.253,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":17249.903,"end":17277.432,"text":"還有最近補教界出現的狼獅那未來如何跟校園系統連結這件事情過去我們有努力過也要請教育部進一步關切那最後國教的部分我也特別想講校園霸凌那這個部分潘部長的未經之夜學生輔導法本身那可能會對這個霸凌的事情我相信能夠幫忙來協助那這部分我們也是為什麼會希望"},{"start":17278.232,"end":17287.36,"text":"學生輔導法能夠盡早出來的原因之一好嗎好那這部分我講我的關節那最後剩一點時間講幼教其實剛剛鍾嘉賓委員講的幼教也就是講第一線現場的問題那本來想問"},{"start":17294.145,"end":17295.385,"text":"政府的0到6歲國家養的政策很好但是撒了錢卻治標不治本又托工作者還是面臨三高"},{"start":17320.433,"end":17328.343,"text":"高工時、高情緒、高壓力、3D、薪資低、福利低、保障低剛剛鍾嘉賓委員的屏東的資料我們剛好看到我們補貼了家長的錢然後給了私立的誘託可是老師的薪水沒有漲錢拿去付房租了"},{"start":17339.976,"end":17365.49,"text":"這是一個蠻大的問題回到剛講的如果老師的勞動環境不好影響教師那也會造成不當對待所以虐童案頻傳我們如果仔細去看的話其實都是以私立的誘託為主所以這部分是不是可以請部長一起關心目前我們的政策的方向其實對公司比沒有實質的提升那5年內"},{"start":17367.551,"end":17368.191,"text":"我想謝謝委員的一個指導"},{"start":17396.395,"end":17420.413,"text":"又託這一個部分功利的只有三成確實我想有很多的時候我們當然也希望能夠引進民間的一個對教育的一個關心的一個投注但是在偏鄉一些離島這些我相信我們應該用公部門的力量來協助這個學校來成立這個"},{"start":17421.254,"end":17421.894,"text":"總之就是三主軸三階段期待部長的亮麗表現"},{"start":17451.414,"end":17454.877,"text":"謝謝主席,4分鐘有點短但是為了大家的健康我會盡量準時請鄭部長"},{"start":17483.373,"end":17486.175,"text":"部長辛苦了謝謝委員因為我只有4分鐘我就專注再跟您討教一下就是國教部分剛剛其實范雲委員有點到國教裡面對108課綱我們現在實行到現在第5年那我就想請教部長一下你個人對108課綱到現在第5年你的看法如何"},{"start":17508.326,"end":17524.922,"text":"跟委員報告基本上我認為我們從每一次課綱研修事實上都充滿有理想性而且那個時空裡邊我認為到現在我們事實上都還是非常有價值的當然有理想有價值"},{"start":17526.603,"end":17547.04,"text":"我肯定這是108課綱我們認為應該給我們新世代的孩子未來的台灣的學子要有一個學習自主獨立甚至他的是讓他的這個理想價值夢想可以透過108課綱一步一步的自我實現但是呢理想價值跟"},{"start":17548.481,"end":17561.489,"text":"實際的狀況有沒有落差?部長我同意有部分的在人才培育裡面﹖他確實有需要去與時俱進去做一些調整所以我現在就是要建議部長是不是我們108課綱裡面的滾動式的一個與時俱進的一個檢討是不是應該我們把它列為是部裡面應該最要緊的事情"},{"start":17570.515,"end":17595.635,"text":"我想我們內部事實上整個團隊都已經有把這個因為剛剛就我在第一線上的觀察那還有剛剛范議員的質詢內容裡面有提到全教總也有發布一個消息是七成的老師喊負擔重那以這個我在第一線上觀察到很多家長高中生的家長或者是國教的這些孩子的家長事實上他們也認為說"},{"start":17599.098,"end":17622.979,"text":"108課綱當時我們認為要教育改革就要解除所謂的軍備競賽可是到目前我們在實務面上看我不知道臺北如何啦起碼我們在中南部看到的這個軍備競賽的一個狀況沒有解除甚至更加重那不僅僅是孩子累家長也跟著累那如果按照全教總說七成的老師也認為負擔重那孩子也認為他加重了"},{"start":17623.8,"end":17630.546,"text":"家長也認為他累了那請問一下我們與時俱進的一個滾動要如何來面對因應這樣的狀況部長其實我們也聽到第一線上的一些老師的聲音包括家長所以也跟委員報告這一次為什麼我後來這個決定挺身而出決定挺身而出來但是部長這是你一個重責大任之一對不對"},{"start":17648.041,"end":17663.901,"text":"我希望我們有很多有理想的人他能夠大家一起來這個守護這個台灣的教育讓他家長少一點擔心老師能夠少一點壓力學生也能夠更安心的學習要做到這三者真的不容易"},{"start":17664.522,"end":17666.943,"text":"以剛剛很多委員都討論過的這個學習歷程來看的話事實上我們在講的教育平權軍備競賽這兩大這個我們認為的目標第一個要讓教育平權要減輕軍備競賽但是以學習歷程的這個議題來講的話事實上要做到不容易部長"},{"start":17685.751,"end":17707.652,"text":"尤其在,對不起我不能幫南部發言,我身在中部,那在中部我們看到的學習歷程的這個不管是準備,從高中端的準備到家長為孩子的準備到可能還要到正規教育以外的民間教育產業裡面的準備,這方方面面都是軍備競賽。"},{"start":17709.173,"end":17709.533,"text":"我想有"},{"start":17737.403,"end":17754.041,"text":"部份的包括從課程或者從剛才委員所提的這個學習歷程我相信有一些東西我們確實是可以調整的比如剛才也有許多委員關心這個你高一高二他可能會興趣上會有一些改變"},{"start":17754.722,"end":17779.093,"text":"那我們怎麼樣讓整個這個機制能夠考慮到學生的一些更多的一些發展跟興趣上的一個改變我想這都是我們可以來的這個就牽涉到我講的城鄉差距裡面學校高中端的資源夠不夠這個我們是不是還有機會再來討論好不好四分鐘到了我知道主席站起來了這很重要部長你挺身而出來擔任部長就是要解決剛剛講的這些問題我們期待謝謝"},{"start":17782.714,"end":17801.999,"text":"好 謝謝部長那部長我們就繼續了我們中間不休息的我們就繼續了可以哈好我們接下來我還是告知所有在場的委員4分鐘因為我們現在已經1點30分了好不好各位請嚴守時間的限制謝謝各位來我們接下來我們請牛許廷委員謝謝主席啊部長有請好請部長"},{"start":17814.74,"end":17829.229,"text":"謝謝委員部長辛苦了午安因為時間只有4分鐘教育題目暴露萬象我們今天聚焦一個題目本期非常關心台灣技職教育的未來所以今天花這4分鐘的時間我們就討論技職教育就好了這個"},{"start":17831.01,"end":17854.5,"text":"我看你們的報告內容大體上來講談技職教育大部分都還是在寫這個私立技職大專院校等等的轉型跟退場的機制這看起來是新政府的一個施政重點但是我想請問一下部長我們開放式給你一分鐘的時間來回答如果讓你點出台灣技職教育現在面對的三個最重大的問題的話你會把哪三件事情視為最重大的問題來請部長回答"},{"start":17856.482,"end":17871.209,"text":"我覺得我們即使因為現在確實面臨到少子化的挑戰那我們過去所定的還是學校的一個形態是在招18歲的這一個高中畢業生高中子的畢業生我覺得也許我們在未來"},{"start":17872.85,"end":17873.691,"text":"對第一個問題是少子化對不對學生人數可能不夠的問題對不對"},{"start":17890.063,"end":17911.473,"text":"第二個我想另外一個就是說我們整個在課程裡面當然隨著產業的一個快速的一個發展我們怎麼樣在人才培育雖然大學不管基專院校或者普通大學它的一個人才培育不是只是為這個就業做準備但是相當程度我們怎麼樣讓"},{"start":17912.674,"end":17912.734,"text":"第三個問題勒?"},{"start":17931.104,"end":17960.23,"text":"第三個問題我覺得我們也許可以更積極來思考讓私校鼓勵私校不要再有太多的這些堅韌的老師應該要有更多的一些專業老師讓他能夠在整個教育品質上在學生的一個受效權上能夠更多的不僅只是上課他還能夠有一些許多非課堂上的一些互動跟學習好所以第三個是私校的轉型跟教育品質提升的問題"},{"start":17961.03,"end":17986.888,"text":"不錯我覺得部長這樣回答算有準備但沒關係我們今天第一次質詢我們做政策對話本席的了解我們也自己做了一些功課我提了三個問題其實有些一樣有一些小落差第一個叫學生逐年遞減的問題那加上產業基層缺工的問題這個從數字上可以來看基本上現在高中生的比重已經超過高職生的比重雖然兩者都因為少子化正在下滑這是第一個問題也就是說大家現在都是慢慢慢慢往升學的方向去走這個願意"},{"start":17988.749,"end":18009.699,"text":"好好的在技職體系裡面蹲點的其實數量是變少的我想這是臺灣技職教育面對的第一個大的挑戰大的問題那麼第二個問題這個本期發現叫做政府投入在高等技職教育的資源其實跟投入在一般大學裡面它其實是有蠻大的落差它有蠻大的落差這些數字的資料會我們用書面的方式提供給教育部做參考"},{"start":18010.359,"end":18034.222,"text":"這是我認為的第二個問題施衡的問題重視大學但相對來講比較不重視技職的教育第三個問題是技職體系的學術化的問題導致技職教育的定位走向模糊的問題也就是說其實很多的技職生大概接近八成左右基本上進了高職體系他還是想我怎麼樣考上一個科技大學或怎麼樣他還是走向升學的方向但相對來講定位就很模糊"},{"start":18034.602,"end":18036.723,"text":"希望教育部長做好準備我們後續做深入的研討好不好"},{"start":18062.595,"end":18071.318,"text":"好謝謝我們4分鐘應該沒有差太久了謝謝牛委員的準時很好來接下來林月群委員麻煩我們的部長好謝謝部長"},{"start":18088.105,"end":18111.36,"text":"部長辛苦了 午安那很重要的上次大概也有提醒過就是因為台灣事實上越生孩子越來越少那近5年孩子出生率少掉3萬可是我們的交通史上是多增加3000而且交通史上事實上現在是目前占比最高在兒少這一塊所以"},{"start":18112.561,"end":18141.012,"text":"保護每個孩子事實上不會是只有交通部的責任因為教育這一塊是在我們的教育部這邊那想問的就是說現在大家就只是鼓勵學校把那個安全教育融入到我們的校定課程沒有明確的去講時數以外的確現在有推所謂的交通安全參考指引可是沒有要求學校一定要去提供適切的整個的教學內容那當然目前也有所謂的"},{"start":18142.153,"end":18163.753,"text":"學習階段的安全教育課程模組那我知道現在實施狀況呢有時候是要求這個學校呢他就是執行三年級那個學校執行四年級我有點不太懂的是為什麼只有三年級要做難道學校一到六年級一二年級不重要嗎然後呢四到六年級不重要嗎只獨獨執行三年級或有的學校執行四年級因為你的重點學校"},{"start":18164.594,"end":18181.083,"text":"要求的就是說學校要執行就好可是執行一個年級也很難說服我們說那為什麼三年級比較重要或者為什麼那個學校六年級比較重要為什麼那個學校一年級比較重要反而其他年級不執行這件事情也讓我們覺得匪夷所思所以我不知道說今天這個法治化這個因為108課綱在111年要第二階段那現在113年就已經開始在討論課綱我不知道說部長有沒有預作準備因為的確"},{"start":18193.911,"end":18201.13,"text":"034的教育宣導,如果要取代,真的要取代系統化的教學,這樣子不太好。不知道你這邊有沒有什麼樣的規劃?"},{"start":18203.061,"end":18225.23,"text":"我想誠如委員剛才所提的他不應該只是某一個特定年級學生的這些同學包括他的行的一些安全他應該是全面的被考量他不應該只是因為重點學校執行的學校已經校數不多的時候又再加上是沒有全面性這個學校去要求"},{"start":18227.471,"end":18242.237,"text":"韓國呢事實上是過去跟我們一樣齁在死傷非常的高可是他花28年的時間在鵝哨的交通傷死亡下降了96%那受傷下降63%我們先不講交通道路環境齁那個是交通部的責任"},{"start":18242.617,"end":18258.152,"text":"可是1997年他宣誓要道路交通安全教育然後到1998年定一些課程的相關的到2008年的時候直接把時數定下來而且是執行10小時讓他的傷亡從死亡是下降96受傷下降63那"},{"start":18259.833,"end":18274.309,"text":"台灣呢現在交通傷亡事實上一直是是我們心中是痛啊因為為什麼它造成死傷事實上是非常非常的高所以本來就是期待是不是可以去併進除了我們剛剛講的是不是可以"},{"start":18274.77,"end":18292.824,"text":"﹚"},{"start":18292.824,"end":18308.131,"text":"﹗"},{"start":18308.251,"end":18333.74,"text":"學校大部分都在做演講兩小時的演講講完警察講完有時候警察講的酒駕跟他們的關聯性並也不是這麼的高甚至招會的10分鐘的宣導如果你講要4小時的話他一個月招會每一次10分鐘就達到了那如果用時數安排的話基本上有沒有解決問題我們比較側重的是期待能夠去真正的解決問題那當然我們希望學校的"},{"start":18334.56,"end":18350.646,"text":"老師應該也要實施培育當然最後大家期待就是是不是能夠進行法治化以外還有老師的培養還有希望能夠有系統性的能夠去進行教學以上謝謝謝謝委員的執政話好謝謝謝謝林月群委員接下來我們請張家俊委員"},{"start":18367.062,"end":18369.904,"text":"主席我想請部長好請部長部長我不曉得說您最近有沒有看到就由大學生跟高中生組成的EDU教育協會在上週發表了第三屆的108課綱觀察報告訪問的對象全部都是在學的學生"},{"start":18391.955,"end":18416.998,"text":"根據這份報告可以發現雙語國家政策落實的效果不佳那賴清德總統在參選總統的期間曾經坦承說目前雙語國家政策的執行現場有出問題請問部長您對目前雙語教育現行的成效為何您個人的看法"},{"start":18418.754,"end":18419.055,"text":"謝謝委員的質詢"},{"start":18448.474,"end":18474.932,"text":"改善那到目前為止部長有沒有計畫2030的這個雙語政策規劃會不會有什麼樣子的改變呢謝謝委員我想這個當時當然賴總統當時整個中央政府這個希望2030年是設定一個目標可是我們知道在整個國家政策的一個教育政策的推動我們也與時俱進也做了一些"},{"start":18475.572,"end":18492.278,"text":"議員．"},{"start":18492.478,"end":18492.598,"text":"有幾個受訪者就說"},{"start":18508.709,"end":18508.849,"text":"通訊網站"},{"start":18525.66,"end":18547.227,"text":"有些科目的專有名詞比較多光是中文解釋就已經很難了假設在用不熟悉的語言會增加它的困難度所以目前種種數據調查皆表明雙語政策在政策目標與教學現場有很大的差距有38.4%的學生不認同雙語教育會提升它的語言水平"},{"start":18552.028,"end":18581.554,"text":"更多數的學生反映雙語教學增加了學習壓力那教育部有沒有什麼具體的措施來為這些學生減輕壓力因為有相當多的學生其實是家境並沒有那麼好他沒有辦法參與補習所以他就是跟不上腳步針對可能家庭環境經濟水平比較差的學生教育部這邊有什麼樣子的加強措施呢"},{"start":18583.02,"end":18598.344,"text":"謝謝委員的一個指正確實我們也看到這些高中生他們的一些意見其實是非常寶貴對我們未來政策的一個推動他事實上有提供了一個相當好的一個我們可以修正努力的一個方向"},{"start":18600.885,"end":18600.905,"text":"委員會員"},{"start":18620.41,"end":18636.227,"text":"報告我們確實也看到了這一項所以我們希望利用這個暑假的營隊把這一個大學生或者許多失陪的能夠帶到這個偏鄉離島優先在許多的日常英文的能力口說比較生活化的我們逐步來做"},{"start":18637.408,"end":18650.817,"text":"謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝兩位來部長先請回座接下來蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員好楊瓊英委員謝謝主席本席想邀請部長"},{"start":18667.162,"end":18693.371,"text":"委員好部長好部長大家歡喜你來自教育界教育的這個場域所以我們希望能夠有一個新的氣象但是目前為止我們面臨到的確很大的一個教育困境我們首先從兩岸的這個學生來看那聽著總統在就職的時候他主動的呼籲陸方要開放陸生學生來台"},{"start":18694.605,"end":18698.997,"text":"那部長你也表示要秉持的一個平等尊嚴的原則"},{"start":18700.495,"end":18726.253,"text":"而且讓兩岸的青年恢復交流所以我們看到從2020年開始陸方宣布了停止暫停陸生來台但是在台灣學生陸續要畢業所以陸生在前10年境外最大的來源國之外我們現在是落到第7名所以在這樣的情況之下本席要請教總統先生這麼說那你預計你會怎麼做"},{"start":18731.391,"end":18733.332,"text":"這是目前我們教育部的方向希望積極來開放學衛生來台交流來台灣學習"},{"start":18756.958,"end":18771.893,"text":"來台灣學習是目前教育部您的方向我們目前也都有各校都有既定的辦法這個在每年的招生各校的招生的2%裡邊我們事實上就事實上但是您是新任的部長"},{"start":18772.734,"end":18790.433,"text":"部長你要去看看真實的情況因為到目前我們本來是第一現在是落到第七這樣子的一個落差問題在哪裡它的實現度有多少這是你擔任部長我們所期待的不是只有美化不是只有政策而沒有去落實"},{"start":18791.454,"end":18813.005,"text":"因為確實過去因為COVID的關係也讓得大家事實上都是很緊張也阻缺了一些交流的一些機會跟信息的一些機會所以我歡迎聽到部長您的回答沒有政治的話術我們的方向是希望能夠促進兩岸青年的交流也希望能夠積極的讓"},{"start":18815.186,"end":18815.426,"text":"學生來臺學習"},{"start":18845.727,"end":18849.13,"text":"但是我們看到110年他是1183屆跟4204屆部長光這五年當中增加了十倍部長"},{"start":18860.339,"end":18869.351,"text":"在潘部長卸任的時候他也非常的憂心他說校園霸凌跟智商的問題要繼續的積極努力來解決請教我們現任的部長針對這個數字你看了心難過不難過"},{"start":18878.462,"end":18894.381,"text":"我想每一個年輕人都是我們國家未來的一個希望我們不希望一個年紀輕輕他們有這種自傷或者自殺的行為所以怎麼樣去落實身心健康讓校園有一個更"},{"start":18895.422,"end":18914.325,"text":"這一個友善安全的一個學習環境我相信那都是我們大家共同在努力的所以本席歡喜聽到你這個論點大家就同一個目標方法我給你功課把方法拿出來給我們這個數字是不能看的數字五年增長十倍心痛啊"},{"start":18915.026,"end":18932.386,"text":"最後一個議題給你 我要遵守再給我一分鐘少子化的問題 我們看到1990年到2001年我們大中院校130所暴增到163所那2023年我看退潮大概只有剩下145所我們又看到學生數 學生數呢20萬"},{"start":18935.189,"end":18957.03,"text":"那個工到了170學年度應該只剩下15.7萬我要兩個問題少子化的問題對大學的退場機制新政府你有什麼作為第二個我們在退場的學校裡面的教師早期我們將2020年開始他轉職公立轉職到私立"},{"start":18958.047,"end":18965.992,"text":"但是連司令現在都危急了那我們這一些教室要怎麼辦這是第二個課題給部長部長你看到這兩個問題了嗎確實我看到了這個少子化對大學的一個治理這個永續的發展它確實是一個挑戰但是我剛才也在跟其他委員也特別的分享也許我們開始要有一些新的一個想法也就是說有部分的學校"},{"start":18986.184,"end":19005.719,"text":"他事實上是優質的但是因為少子化的關係使得他面臨了更大的挑戰也許這個整個學校的治理他不一定要招18歲他可能有一些更多的我特別跟委員報告30歲以後有30歲以後你這個想法很好但是要怎麼去落實聽你講將你水淹玉的"},{"start":19008.301,"end":19008.882,"text":"接下來我們請羅智強委員時間4分鐘謝謝"},{"start":19036.451,"end":19036.873,"text":"主席有請鄭部長"},{"start":19047.133,"end":19075.16,"text":"部長好賴清德總統就職說兩岸合作可以先從學位生來台就學開始嘛對不對我也看到你說在兩岸平等尊嚴下讓大陸學位生來台嘛對不對我有點好奇兩岸現在這麼的關係這麼的惡劣緊張為什麼我們賴總統以及包括我們的鄭部長你第一個想要做的是讓大陸的學位生來台為什麼"},{"start":19076.92,"end":19089.874,"text":"我想過去因為COVID的關係對也許阻斷了一些兩岸的一些我這樣問好了部長那代表學生來台對台灣來講還是有正面的意義嘛對不對"},{"start":19092.116,"end":19106.384,"text":"對年輕人的認識從文化兩岸的一個交流更健康的一些學習的一個互動我想那當然是正面學習互動健康的那個兩岸的交流嘛對不對可以增加一些相互的瞭解"},{"start":19107.944,"end":19135.351,"text":"事實上我們現在很多的一些學校的量能包括私校退場的問題那如果說這個陸生來台也可以做這些上面的一些等於是多一些我們教學量能的擴充使用嘛對不對減緩一些私校的一些招生的壓力嘛對不對是是謝謝我們部長那可是我就要問部長幾個問題我們事實上陸生來台最多的時候是多少人每年多少人"},{"start":19139.196,"end":19158.992,"text":"學士生加研修生每年四萬兩千人學士生將近九千五百人可是陸生的學衛生在去年就歸零了請問教育部要恢復陸生來台具體目標數字是什麼有沒有具體目標數字希望啦"},{"start":19161.428,"end":19167.715,"text":"這個部分我們當然希望能夠恢復到在未來所以希望能夠恢復到四萬兩千人或九千五百人之類的嘛 對不對很好 有這個宏觀的目標很好 那具體的時程有沒有大概的希望多快 越快越好"},{"start":19178.769,"end":19203.768,"text":"當然我們期待就是說兩岸的一個在讓年輕人一個學習或是交流的機會能夠越快越好那我們釋出一個相對的一些主動的一個善意的事實上在這邊我很肯定部長因為是要陸生來台是馬英九前總統他那時候的一個很重要的政績所以看起來我們新政府也想延續可是下一個部長我要請教你一下你知道"},{"start":19204.528,"end":19230.659,"text":"入生來台是教育史上最黑暗的一天你知道這句話誰說的嗎?你認同這句話嗎?入生來台是教育史上最黑暗的一天?對,非常好,我也不認同這句話是賴清德總統在當立委的時候說的啦所以那我現在請教您你知道這個入生來台"},{"start":19233.46,"end":19241.608,"text":"將使得我們成為教育的一中市場台灣由親美將轉為親中影響台灣人的價值觀這又要誰說的你知道嗎是現在的海委會主委以前的管碧玲立委說的然後陸森來台將接班的政治精英滲透到台灣來很嚴重啊這又要誰說的"},{"start":19257.453,"end":19263.783,"text":"陳庭菲說的我再不要再念下去了啦我就要說一件事情我想請教一下部長"},{"start":19265.288,"end":19293.747,"text":"為什麼入生來台從所謂的過去民進黨在野的時候的十惡不赦的政策現在變成部長你口中甚至賴清德總統口中的優先兩岸需要能夠開通的政策還變成一個可以促進兩岸相互了解甚至來能夠讓我們的這個教育的那個能量可以就是得到延伸為什麼變成是正面的事情呢到底轉變了什麼東西"},{"start":19297.049,"end":19314.474,"text":"我想從我一個學教育的觀點我總覺得很多的這個不同的一些文化或者一些觀念能夠透過一些互動他能夠減少縮短彼此的差異及理解差異我想他是有的謝謝部長一路很正常我最後做一點簡短的結論"},{"start":19316.215,"end":19328.402,"text":"事實上我跟各位回味一下以前在審入生法案的時候我看這是似曾相識所以我們在審國會法案一模一樣民進黨公主席台要掐麥克風要掐會議主席的脖子扯法汙嘴掐桌各種暴力手段也是樣樣來跟這兩天相比毫不遜色當時賴清德還跳到桌上跟洪秀柱對嗆"},{"start":19341.65,"end":19352.911,"text":"才會有出現這個歷史名言入生來台是教育史上最黑暗的一天我在這邊真的是奉勸民進黨的人最近國會改個一模一樣的嘴臉我不希望10年後"},{"start":19354.378,"end":19376.888,"text":"結果又變成說是今天這個國會改革是非常陽光正面就像說10年前你把陸森來台打成所謂教育史上最黑暗的一天但是現在卻成為賴清德當總統第一個想要重新開放的兩岸政見不要著是心非學學我們的部長能夠正面看待該正面看待的事情謝謝部長 謝謝"},{"start":19379.178,"end":19397.712,"text":"謝謝羅志強委員謝謝部長黃珊珊委員黃珊珊委員黃珊珊委員鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員林德福委員林德福委員林德福委員謝依鳳委員謝依鳳委員謝依鳳委員翁曉林委員翁曉林委員翁曉林委員"},{"start":19399.073,"end":19418.01,"text":"今天的質詢登記質詢的委員都已經發言完畢那關於今天的會議我們做如下的決定報告和詢答完畢我們委員所提供的書面或相關的資料我們就列入記錄好那我們報告委員會今天的議程處理完畢我們現在休息謝謝各位"},{"start":19426.327,"end":19427.988,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":19459.229,"end":19484.019,"text":"謝謝各位不懷意思"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}