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沒關係 喝一口喝一口茶 沒問題的您印象非常準時的 所以沒問題我到經濟委員會質詢的時候 您當召委我也很準時好 請邱志偉委員 好 謝謝"},{"start":25.416,"end":31.777,"text":"先主席有請這個內政部劉部長劉部長有請還有國土管理署吳署長吳署長有請部長好部長在您的報告裡面幾個問題請教如果要租屋市場透明化未來的經濟方向最主要還是要持續推動包租貸款跟租金補貼嗎好這是重點那來問題來囉如果這個在野黨動三預算"},{"start":55.114,"end":63.546,"text":"那租金補貼能夠如期上路或者如期達成這個目標嗎這些包租代管的部分這個錢還夠不夠"},{"start":66.328,"end":90.376,"text":"報告委員我們在很多次的會議裡面都有提到了就是第一個我們當然是尊重現在最新的114年度的年度預算那這個年度預算剛公布所以我們還是希望說在山跟洞的部分山2.7億 洞是11.47億是的沒錯那這租金補貼什麼時候會用完呢如果沒有解洞"},{"start":91.643,"end":117.61,"text":"我們按照目前就是來申請租金補貼的部分我們是希望說可以按照目前的狀態不要給他打折扣的話最快大概11月就會用慶就是說你沒有凍結沒有解凍的話11月份就沒有了對那如果他是不解凍那租金補貼就會受到影響受害者就是廣大的租屋群眾是的那另外財化法之後"},{"start":121.533,"end":138.104,"text":"你要中央釋出很多資源給這個地方對那未來包租代管的部分要由地方政府去執行嗎是這樣子我們在111年以前就是有關社會住宅的興建那大部分都是分成中央跟地方有一定比例的分配"},{"start":138.584,"end":162.675,"text":"那後來因為中央會覺得說為了社宅跟居住正義很多這個經費都是由中央全額來支付那現在如果財化法按照原來要推動的時候我們就會下放也就是說幾乎大概是25%或28%的這個經費要由地方政府來支付中央蓋的多地方蓋的少目前是這樣而且很多地方大概已經不再繼續蓋所以你這個包租代管"},{"start":163.271,"end":183.492,"text":"因為中央蓋的多所以包租貸管的費用還是要中央處理會比較多對不對理論上會這樣子那你如果包租貸管的經費你如果被因為財政收入發放的話你下放地方的時候你怎麼樣針對你中央蓋的這個這個社會住宅來處理這些包租貸管可能相對要減少我請署長來跟進來署長"},{"start":185.414,"end":208.092,"text":"我大概分幾個層次啦第一個大概就是租金補貼可能就回歸到110年以前就是中央跟地方各自負擔一定的戶數一定比例的戶數那你要讓所有的廣告事主知道問題出在哪裡然後第二個大概包括帶管的這一個服務費或相關的這個費用的一個分攤這個可能也會找地方政府就一起來協助做分攤"},{"start":209.233,"end":234.287,"text":"那第三個就是說新建設宅的部分因為其實中央現在蓋的設宅的數量已經超過地方而且比例不斷的在拉高那如果才要把通過以後大概我們會希望地方政府尤其是新開發區啊新開發區就以後大概統一由地方政府來負擔然後分的包租貸款的費用又多中央蓋的設宅多那包租貸款的經費又全部下放地方"},{"start":235.762,"end":258.899,"text":"這變成說一個好的政策經過扭曲之後一個服務國利民的政策經過扭曲之後不當煽動之後有可能變成禍國殃民受到傷害是全國租屋族的老百姓這些租屋族相對都是在經濟上相對是比較弱勢所以需要租金補貼嘛"},{"start":260.543,"end":288,"text":"那是不是雪上加霜呢雪上加霜結果就是禍國殃民嘛我很遺憾我們到時候就是要求地方政府也要負起負起一些責任所以到時候費用的分攤就是雙方還要再重新談那大概我們至少會按照比例去減少的部分我們就會要求地方政府來自行負擔那另外前瞻建設的預算沒有過地方政府這下怎麼應應地方政府也沒有錢"},{"start":289.079,"end":317.663,"text":"那些有沒有相關的配套方案目前前瞻如果沒有審查的話其實大概道路的部分大概是衝擊最大他就讓你沒有辦法去做事情嗎包含去年核定現在在再建工程當中的很可能就會停止路不會自己開天上不會掉下一條路一定要中央地方協力合作中央要補貼大部分預算對不對你現在前瞻沒有過路開不了啦影響是誰影響是所有的國人同胞"},{"start":318.283,"end":338.179,"text":"另外因為我時間關係北高雄地方建設發展有三條道路我已經看了五六次包括湖內區東方路連接正義社區包括岡山區高二十九菜條路包括紫關區中正路連接遠港路打空工程這三項我想這個署長你也很清楚我希望部長能夠支持部長"},{"start":339.676,"end":349.475,"text":"了解這個我想部長能夠支持我當然支持啊但是要有經費啊這個經費有啦我不曉得有沒有啦這個我了解目前經費這個還可以支持一點"},{"start":352.09,"end":374.403,"text":"這個部分我想我們來跟市府商量因為這生活圈的部分大概都是要靠滾動檢討那所以像這裡面還有一個是八到九米那大概就要符合這一個打通瓶頸的這個路段這我們來跟市府來商量所以這就代表它優先性跟急迫性跟必要性還請署長跟部長解釋另外144號道路也拜託"},{"start":375.803,"end":401.158,"text":"這個進度能不能加快14號是協定區啊 另外的重要交通道要到那因為十幾年都沒有辦法打通所以這部分是不是私立的評點也能夠儘速來進行這個我們會請公園署這邊來加速 儘快來開闢部長您能不能現在的瓶頸就是我們公園署在3月27號召開委員會那我會請這個公園署按照我們地方上的需求呢儘快讓他完成這樣子的會議"},{"start":402.306,"end":404.939,"text":"謝謝部長 謝謝署長好 謝謝邱志偉委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":802,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時38分）謝謝主席，我請內政部劉部長。"],["主席：劉部長有請。"],["邱委員志偉：還有國土管理署吳署長。"],["主席：吳署長有請。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：部長好。部長，我在您的報告裡面有幾個問題請教，如果要租屋市場透明化，未來的精進方向最主要還是要持續推動包租代管跟租金補貼。"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["邱委員志偉：好，這是重點，問題來了，如果在野黨凍刪預算，租金補貼能夠如期上路或如期達成這個目標嗎？這些包租代管的部分，錢還夠不夠？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我們在很多次的會議裡都有提到，第一個，我們當然是尊重現在最新114年度的年度預算，這個年度預算剛公布，所以我們還是希望在刪和凍的部分……"],["邱委員志偉：刪2.74億，凍41.47億。"],["劉部長世芳：是的，沒錯。"],["邱委員志偉：請問租金補貼如果沒有解凍，什麼時候會用完呢？"],["劉部長世芳：按照目前來申請租金補貼的部分，我們是希望可以按照目前的狀態，不要給它打折扣的話，最快大概11月就會用罄。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你的凍結沒有解凍的話，11月份就沒有了？"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["邱委員志偉：如果它不解凍，租金補貼就會受到影響？"],["劉部長世芳：會。"],["邱委員志偉：受害者就是廣大的租屋群眾？"],["劉部長世芳：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，財劃法之後，要中央釋出很多資源給地方。"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["邱委員志偉：未來包租代管的部分要由地方政府去執行嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：是這樣子，我們在111年以前有關社會住宅的興建，大部分都是中央跟地方有一定比例的分配，後來因為中央覺得為了社宅跟居住正義，很多經費都是由中央全額來支付，現在如果是財劃法按照原來要推動的話，我們就會下放，也就是說大概是25%或28%的經費要由地方政府來支付。"],["邱委員志偉：部長，我擔心的是中央蓋得多、地方蓋得少。"],["劉部長世芳：目前是這樣，而且很多地方大概已經不再繼續蓋。"],["邱委員志偉：所以有關包租代管，因為中央蓋得多，所以包租代管的費用還是要中央出會比較多，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：理論上會這樣子。"],["邱委員志偉：如果包租代管的經費，因為財政收支劃分法下放地方的時候，你怎麼樣針對中央蓋的社會住宅來處理這些包租代管？"],["劉部長世芳：可能相對要減少，我請署長來說明。"],["吳署長欣修：我大概分幾個層次，第一個，租金補貼可能就回歸到110年以前，中央跟地方各自負擔一定比例的戶數……"],["邱委員志偉：你要讓所有廣大租屋族知道問題出在哪裡。"],["吳署長欣修：第二個，包租代管的服務費或相關的費用分攤可能也會找地方政府一起來協助做分攤。"],["邱委員志偉：現在很遺憾，聽你的說明我可以理解。"],["吳署長欣修：第三個，興建社宅的部分，因為其實中央現在蓋的社宅數量已經超過地方，而且比例不斷在拉高，如果財劃法通過以後，我們會希望地方政府，尤其是新開發區，以後大概統一由地方政府來負擔。"],["邱委員志偉：地方政府蓋的社宅少，然後分的包租代管費用又多；中央蓋的社宅多，包租代管的經費又全部下放地方？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["邱委員志偉：這就變成一個好的政策、一個福國利民的政策經過扭曲之後、不當刪凍之後，有可能變成禍國殃民，受到傷害的是全國租屋族的老百姓，這些租屋族相對都是在經濟上比較弱勢，所以需要租金補貼。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["邱委員志偉：是不是雪上加霜呢？雪上加霜的結果就是禍國殃民，我很遺憾。"],["吳署長欣修：我們到時候就是要求地方政府也要負起一些責任，所以到時候雙方還要再重新談費用的分攤，至少按照比例減少的部分，我們就會要求地方政府自行負擔。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，前瞻建設的預算沒有過，這些地方政府要怎麼因應？地方政府也沒有錢，有沒有相關的配套方案？署長。"],["吳署長欣修：目前前瞻如果沒有審查的話，其實道路的部分大概衝擊最大。"],["邱委員志偉：就是讓你沒有辦法去做事情。"],["吳署長欣修：包含去年核定現在在建工程當中的部分很可能就會停止。"],["邱委員志偉：路不會自己開，天上不會掉下一條路，一定要中央、地方協力合作，中央要補貼大部分的預算，對不對？你現在前瞻沒有過，路開不了，影響是誰？影響是所有國人同胞。","因為時間的關係，另外，北高雄地方建設發展有三條道路，我已經看了五、六次，包括湖內區東方路連接正義社區，包括岡山區高29菜寮路，包括梓官區中正路連接援港路打通工程這三項，署長你也很清楚，我希望部長能夠支持，部長，我希望部長能夠支持，這已經看過很多次了。"],["劉部長世芳：我當然支持，但是要有經費。"],["邱委員志偉：這個經費我不曉得有沒有，我了解，以目前的經費還可以支應一點。"],["吳署長欣修：這個部分，我們來跟市府商量，因為這個生活圈的部分大概都是要靠滾動檢討，像這裡面還有一個是8到9米的道路，大概就要符合打通瓶頸的路段，我們來跟市府商量。"],["邱委員志偉：市府是把它擺在排序的前幾名，所以代表它有優先性、急迫性和必要性。"],["吳署長欣修：瞭解。"],["邱委員志偉：還請署長跟部長支持。另外，1-4號道路也拜託進度能不能加快，1-4號是茄萣區聯外的重要交通要道，但是因為十幾年都沒有辦法打通，所以濕地的評定是不是也能夠儘速來進行、儘快來開闢？"],["吳署長欣修：我們會請公園署這邊加速來進行。"],["邱委員志偉：部長，你能不能……"],["劉部長世芳：現在的瓶頸就是我們公園署會在3月27日召開委員會，我會請公園署按照地方上的需求儘快完成這樣子的會議。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝部長，謝謝署長。"],["主席：謝謝邱志偉委員。","下一位請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-5","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","王美惠","張宏陸","黃捷","黃建賓","丁學忠","李柏毅","吳琪銘","許宇甄","張啓楷","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","徐欣瑩","黃健豪","黃珊珊","鍾佳濱","郭國文","高金素梅"],"page_start":63,"meetingDate":["2025-03-24"],"gazette_id":"1143002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部部長、行政院消費者保護處處長、財政部就「租賃住宅市場透明化之現況及展望」進\n行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143002_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}