{"error":false,"id":["15958"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":15958,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15958","日期":"2024-05-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-22-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Full","開始時間":"2024-05-29T08:30:46+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-29T12:14:00+08:00","影片長度":"03:43:14","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373da75a1f35c7302ecd0f9a65472a0a5ac33be8d109af184be4a4439dc52e811d505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:30:46 - 12:14:00","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.89596875,"end":299.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.62909375000004,"end":304.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.87346875000003,"end":307.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.6653437500001,"end":586.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1761.5784687500002,"end":1786.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1788.1903437500002,"end":1795.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1795.6153437500002,"end":1807.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1808.49096875,"end":1810.2797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1811.3597187500002,"end":1814.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1815.5447187500001,"end":1818.9703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1819.4934687500001,"end":1823.2059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1824.37034375,"end":1828.8590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1829.29784375,"end":1834.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1835.2378437500001,"end":1847.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1856.1122187500002,"end":1857.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1858.6434687500002,"end":1861.6134687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1861.9678437500002,"end":1864.6340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1864.9547187500002,"end":1867.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1868.0765937500003,"end":1872.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1872.8522187500002,"end":1874.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1875.29909375,"end":1877.3072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1877.9822187500001,"end":1878.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1879.1972187500003,"end":1882.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1882.9603437500002,"end":1885.7784687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1886.1497187500001,"end":1890.7059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1891.2459687500002,"end":1892.1065937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1893.0684687500002,"end":1896.3422187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1896.94971875,"end":1898.9409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1899.3965937500002,"end":1903.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1903.7672187500002,"end":1905.4378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1905.8428437500002,"end":1908.4247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1909.5553437500002,"end":1917.0140937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1919.4272187500003,"end":1921.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1922.0934687500003,"end":1923.0553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1923.6797187500001,"end":1925.4178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1926.1265937500002,"end":1927.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1927.5103437500002,"end":1929.5184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1929.8053437500002,"end":1931.3240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1932.0834687500003,"end":1932.7584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1933.0622187500003,"end":1937.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1938.42846875,"end":1943.8115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1944.3009687500003,"end":1952.1309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1953.1603437500003,"end":1956.9234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1957.14284375,"end":1960.3490937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1961.2434687500001,"end":1962.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1963.7240937500003,"end":1967.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1968.66846875,"end":1972.3640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1972.8365937500002,"end":1976.1947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1976.7853437500003,"end":1977.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1979.1647187500002,"end":1983.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1984.0753437500002,"end":1986.7584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1987.36596875,"end":1989.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1989.9647187500002,"end":1991.3822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1992.2259687500002,"end":1995.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1995.7022187500002,"end":2001.1190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2002.3847187500003,"end":2005.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2005.9622187500001,"end":2009.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2009.2697187500003,"end":2010.3665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2011.0415937500002,"end":2013.6234687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2014.50096875,"end":2016.4078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2017.0828437500002,"end":2018.3653437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2018.8040937500002,"end":2021.1665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2021.5209687500003,"end":2022.9890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2024.1703437500003,"end":2025.5540937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2026.9547187500002,"end":2030.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2031.0047187500002,"end":2031.7303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2032.2703437500002,"end":2032.9790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2033.6709687500002,"end":2034.1434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2034.8522187500002,"end":2036.9447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2037.6365937500002,"end":2039.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2041.3322187500003,"end":2045.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2046.0403437500001,"end":2050.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2050.7822187500005,"end":2053.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2053.56659375,"end":2056.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2057.7178437500006,"end":2060.1815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2060.5865937500002,"end":2063.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2063.8603437500005,"end":2066.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2068.7372187500005,"end":2073.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2075.3522187500002,"end":2078.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2078.71034375,"end":2080.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2080.7353437500005,"end":2082.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2082.6084687500006,"end":2084.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2085.59534375,"end":2087.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2088.36284375,"end":2089.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2089.8984687500006,"end":2092.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2093.1553437500006,"end":2094.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2096.05784375,"end":2098.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2099.3653437500006,"end":2103.9890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2104.25909375,"end":2104.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2105.47409375,"end":2108.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2108.9840937500003,"end":2110.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2111.2790937500004,"end":2113.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2114.5359687500004,"end":2115.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2116.2740937500002,"end":2117.7422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2118.4003437500005,"end":2120.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2121.62346875,"end":2126.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2127.81659375,"end":2132.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2132.47409375,"end":2133.1153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2133.6384687500004,"end":2135.0897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2135.5622187500003,"end":2137.3678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2137.95846875,"end":2143.7128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2144.45534375,"end":2149.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2150.85096875,"end":2157.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2158.73159375,"end":2161.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2161.98846875,"end":2164.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2164.3847187500005,"end":2167.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2168.28284375,"end":2170.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2171.23596875,"end":2175.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2176.6697187500004,"end":2180.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2181.8672187500006,"end":2186.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2187.85784375,"end":2193.1228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2193.4940937500005,"end":2198.9615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2199.50159375,"end":2201.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2201.52659375,"end":2203.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2204.17596875,"end":2206.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2207.8884687500004,"end":2208.7322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2209.2722187500003,"end":2211.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2211.71909375,"end":2215.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2216.1403437500003,"end":2219.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2219.97096875,"end":2224.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2224.4597187500003,"end":2225.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2226.41721875,"end":2228.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2228.8640937500004,"end":2233.6228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2235.0065937500003,"end":2240.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2240.7947187500004,"end":2247.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2247.94971875,"end":2250.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2251.20659375,"end":2254.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2254.93596875,"end":2257.4334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2257.9734687500004,"end":2261.3484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2262.04034375,"end":2264.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2264.6559687500003,"end":2267.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2267.84534375,"end":2269.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2269.9209687500006,"end":2271.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2272.72221875,"end":2276.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2276.75534375,"end":2279.1853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2279.5059687500006,"end":2282.9147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2283.57284375,"end":2285.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2286.5428437500004,"end":2287.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2288.31471875,"end":2291.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2292.97221875,"end":2293.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2294.10284375,"end":2296.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2297.61284375,"end":2302.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2302.7597187500005,"end":2306.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2307.61971875,"end":2309.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2309.8809687500006,"end":2313.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2314.36971875,"end":2317.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2319.9384687500005,"end":2328.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2328.7303437500004,"end":2331.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2332.1053437500004,"end":2339.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2339.96909375,"end":2348.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2349.5878437500005,"end":2352.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2353.2497187500003,"end":2362.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2362.91909375,"end":2366.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2368.0828437500004,"end":2375.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2381.00909375,"end":2448.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2448.50909375,"end":2487.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2488.53659375,"end":2530.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2531.1797187500006,"end":2563.9003437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2564.45721875,"end":2630.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2632.0753437500007,"end":2635.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2635.5684687500006,"end":2691.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2693.85471875,"end":2726.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2735.5528437500006,"end":2739.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2739.48471875,"end":2741.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2742.87659375,"end":2743.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2745.86346875,"end":2747.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2747.33159375,"end":2749.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2749.5084687500002,"end":2774.8884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2775.2090937500006,"end":2784.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2784.55784375,"end":2802.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2804.04846875,"end":2807.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2807.94659375,"end":2819.7253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2819.87721875,"end":2823.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2823.06659375,"end":2830.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2823.1003437500003,"end":2823.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2832.01034375,"end":2833.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2833.98471875,"end":2845.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2845.62846875,"end":2858.7234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2859.17909375,"end":2859.7022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2860.81596875,"end":2868.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2866.9753437500003,"end":2867.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2868.52784375,"end":2868.5615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2868.5615937500006,"end":2868.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2868.57846875,"end":2868.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2869.4053437500006,"end":2871.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2871.3122187500003,"end":2872.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2873.28659375,"end":2874.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2873.35409375,"end":2873.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2874.0290937500004,"end":2874.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2874.48471875,"end":2875.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2875.34534375,"end":2875.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2875.7334687500006,"end":2908.8590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2890.0097187500005,"end":2890.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2890.02659375,"end":2890.1784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2890.1784687500003,"end":2890.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2894.38034375,"end":2896.5234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2896.5234687500006,"end":2896.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2902.81784375,"end":2902.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2902.8515937500006,"end":2903.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2907.93096875,"end":2908.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2908.8590937500003,"end":2913.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2913.78659375,"end":2921.0428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2920.51971875,"end":2921.0597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2921.0597187500007,"end":2921.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2921.43096875,"end":2921.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2922.9159687500005,"end":2957.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2958.5897187500004,"end":2978.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2978.56971875,"end":2987.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2982.3497187500006,"end":2982.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2988.40784375,"end":3010.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3009.8728437500004,"end":3010.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3010.51409375,"end":3010.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3010.9697187500005,"end":3011.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3012.50534375,"end":3012.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3012.5222187500003,"end":3017.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3012.79221875,"end":3013.2478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3017.97284375,"end":3019.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3019.0528437500006,"end":3020.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3019.9303437500002,"end":3026.6972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3026.8828437500006,"end":3027.3047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3027.38909375,"end":3039.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3028.16534375,"end":3029.2284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3039.92721875,"end":3041.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3041.8172187500004,"end":3045.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3046.23846875,"end":3053.2078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3047.68971875,"end":3047.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3047.9765937500006,"end":3048.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3048.11159375,"end":3048.2128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3048.3309687500005,"end":3048.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3048.43221875,"end":3048.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3053.6972187500005,"end":3058.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3058.54034375,"end":3061.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3059.09721875,"end":3059.8397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3060.34596875,"end":3061.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3061.93221875,"end":3061.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3061.9659687500007,"end":3062.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3062.0672187500004,"end":3062.1347187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3062.1347187500005,"end":3063.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3062.15159375,"end":3065.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3065.96534375,"end":3074.1834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3074.80784375,"end":3076.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3076.86659375,"end":3079.9040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3080.4440937500003,"end":3089.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3089.87721875,"end":3091.9190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3092.7628437500007,"end":3096.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3096.9647187500004,"end":3098.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3099.8672187500006,"end":3101.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3103.20846875,"end":3109.6378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3110.2959687500006,"end":3111.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3113.02971875,"end":3117.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3117.97409375,"end":3131.0690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3131.65971875,"end":3137.9372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3138.7978437500005,"end":3139.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3140.31659375,"end":3141.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3141.0253437500005,"end":3141.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3141.04221875,"end":3142.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3142.0378437500003,"end":3171.5859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3151.5553437500002,"end":3151.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3151.58909375,"end":3151.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3151.9772187500002,"end":3152.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3152.02784375,"end":3152.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3152.80409375,"end":3152.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3169.2234687500004,"end":3180.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3180.47909375,"end":3180.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3180.5634687500005,"end":3188.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3180.69846875,"end":3180.7322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3188.1572187500005,"end":3208.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3209.5378437500003,"end":3226.3790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3225.3497187500006,"end":3246.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3246.64596875,"end":3246.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3246.94971875,"end":3248.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3247.5065937500003,"end":3256.4503437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3256.6022187500002,"end":3258.6609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3258.8634687500007,"end":3261.1247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3261.6815937500005,"end":3262.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3262.30596875,"end":3262.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3264.97221875,"end":3265.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3266.2715937500006,"end":3266.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3268.51596875,"end":3275.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3275.56971875,"end":3285.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3285.8465937500005,"end":3289.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3289.5928437500006,"end":3303.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3304.07159375,"end":3304.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3304.4090937500005,"end":3304.5440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3304.56096875,"end":3305.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3305.87721875,"end":3308.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3308.1553437500006,"end":3311.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3312.08721875,"end":3320.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3320.23784375,"end":3330.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3328.1015937500006,"end":3329.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3330.04221875,"end":3330.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3330.22784375,"end":3342.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3343.4072187500005,"end":3343.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3343.42409375,"end":3355.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3343.67721875,"end":3345.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3355.5909687500007,"end":3362.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3363.4209687500006,"end":3366.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3364.8553437500004,"end":3365.4459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3366.03659375,"end":3376.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3376.87034375,"end":3383.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3384.2615937500004,"end":3385.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3386.3878437500007,"end":3387.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3387.97409375,"end":3398.1159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3398.16659375,"end":3416.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3416.54346875,"end":3433.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3432.3722187500007,"end":3432.4734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3434.19471875,"end":3448.8253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3449.19659375,"end":3450.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3450.0909687500007,"end":3455.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3456.62159375,"end":3457.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3458.5115937500004,"end":3464.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3461.9540937500005,"end":3472.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3473.6315937500003,"end":3475.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3475.06596875,"end":3475.0997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3475.0997187500006,"end":3475.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3475.1503437500005,"end":3479.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3479.03159375,"end":3479.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3479.14971875,"end":3479.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3479.16659375,"end":3479.2003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3479.75721875,"end":3485.4103437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3483.0309687500003,"end":3483.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3483.19971875,"end":3484.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3484.02659375,"end":3484.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3488.3465937500005,"end":3496.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3497.0709687500002,"end":3500.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3497.6278437500005,"end":3497.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3500.96909375,"end":3500.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3500.98596875,"end":3501.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3501.03659375,"end":3502.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3502.25159375,"end":3509.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3509.96346875,"end":3510.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3510.9422187500004,"end":3510.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3510.97596875,"end":3511.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3511.6847187500007,"end":3512.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3512.59596875,"end":3517.7597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3517.7597187500005,"end":3534.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3517.79346875,"end":3518.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3534.97221875,"end":3535.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3535.6472187500003,"end":3535.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3535.81596875,"end":3539.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3540.3047187500006,"end":3541.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3542.14409375,"end":3573.1940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3574.18971875,"end":3579.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3579.37034375,"end":3580.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3580.53471875,"end":3587.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3592.1953437500006,"end":3594.9122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3596.2115937500002,"end":3597.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3600.2615937500004,"end":3619.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3619.27971875,"end":3619.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3619.4315937500005,"end":3632.9990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3631.8347187500003,"end":3638.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3638.7197187500005,"end":3643.7653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3642.31409375,"end":3655.3415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3655.7803437500006,"end":3659.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3659.96534375,"end":3680.8565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3676.5197187500007,"end":3676.5703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3676.5703437500006,"end":3677.2790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3681.10971875,"end":3694.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3694.74471875,"end":3709.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3711.31596875,"end":3715.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3715.70346875,"end":3719.1290937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3718.9940937500005,"end":3752.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3753.4190937500007,"end":3780.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3780.5372187500006,"end":3781.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3782.1065937500007,"end":3803.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3791.28659375,"end":3791.9784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3791.9784687500005,"end":3792.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3802.32284375,"end":3863.2078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3863.5115937500004,"end":3871.8478437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3870.29534375,"end":3877.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3877.1297187500004,"end":3877.2140937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3877.2140937500008,"end":3877.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3877.28159375,"end":3877.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3877.8553437500004,"end":3887.1872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3886.1747187500005,"end":3890.2922187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3889.5665937500007,"end":3896.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3896.56971875,"end":3929.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3925.39221875,"end":3925.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3929.8809687500006,"end":3939.8709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3938.63909375,"end":3941.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3942.13221875,"end":3950.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3950.94096875,"end":3966.3478437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3965.09909375,"end":3985.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3986.12534375,"end":3999.1190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3999.74346875,"end":4066.2140937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4065.7584687500002,"end":4072.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4072.2722187500003,"end":4101.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4101.887843750001,"end":4105.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4105.347218749999,"end":4113.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4105.88721875,"end":4107.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4112.16471875,"end":4115.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4113.784718749999,"end":4116.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4115.6747187500005,"end":4119.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4118.796593749999,"end":4126.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4123.2684687500005,"end":4124.095343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4125.546593749999,"end":4128.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4127.0653437500005,"end":4140.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4140.599093750001,"end":4144.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4144.41284375,"end":4154.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4153.6434687500005,"end":4176.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4172.104718750001,"end":4175.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4175.715968750001,"end":4175.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4175.86784375,"end":4176.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4176.644093749999,"end":4176.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4176.694718750001,"end":4176.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4176.795968750001,"end":4176.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4176.91409375,"end":4176.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4176.930968750001,"end":4176.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4176.94784375,"end":4177.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4177.015343749999,"end":4177.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4177.3865937499995,"end":4177.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4177.47096875,"end":4177.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4177.52159375,"end":4177.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4177.538468750001,"end":4177.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4177.55534375,"end":4177.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4177.99409375,"end":4178.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4178.02784375,"end":4178.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4178.939093749999,"end":4179.360968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4179.360968749999,"end":4179.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4179.42846875,"end":4179.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4180.440968749999,"end":4183.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4191.696593750001,"end":4194.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4204.8084687499995,"end":4210.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4210.157843749999,"end":4211.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4215.085343750001,"end":4216.064093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4216.435343749999,"end":4289.892218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4294.634093750001,"end":4303.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4296.62534375,"end":4296.642218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4296.642218749999,"end":4297.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4297.030343750001,"end":4298.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4298.194718750001,"end":4298.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4303.155968749999,"end":4308.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4303.864718750001,"end":4304.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4308.032843749999,"end":4345.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4346.4403437500005,"end":4352.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4351.249718749999,"end":4396.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4355.16471875,"end":4357.814093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4397.942843750001,"end":4402.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4402.93784375,"end":4404.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4404.085343750001,"end":4404.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4404.186593750001,"end":4404.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4404.47346875,"end":4406.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4404.507218750001,"end":4405.907843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4406.12721875,"end":4409.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4408.65846875,"end":4408.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4409.012843750001,"end":4409.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4409.35034375,"end":4410.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4412.06721875,"end":4416.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4416.2353437500005,"end":4430.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4430.9334687499995,"end":4510.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4510.870343750001,"end":4527.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4527.57659375,"end":4530.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4531.7615937499995,"end":4548.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4548.82221875,"end":4554.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4548.839093750001,"end":4554.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4554.795968750001,"end":4603.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4554.86346875,"end":4554.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4605.977843750001,"end":4607.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4609.774718750001,"end":4642.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4643.45721875,"end":4645.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4646.477843750001,"end":4656.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4657.210343750001,"end":4665.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4665.833468750001,"end":4668.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4667.706593749999,"end":4674.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4673.54534375,"end":4679.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4679.82284375,"end":4679.890343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4680.126593749999,"end":4680.548468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4680.548468749999,"end":4680.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4680.61596875,"end":4680.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4680.919718749999,"end":4692.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4683.180968750001,"end":4683.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4683.974093750001,"end":4684.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4691.2978437500005,"end":4696.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4696.529093749999,"end":4697.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4697.03534375,"end":4697.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4697.052218750001,"end":4697.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4697.17034375,"end":4697.237843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4697.237843749999,"end":4697.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4697.372843749999,"end":4699.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4699.93784375,"end":4739.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4739.982218749999,"end":4797.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4797.99846875,"end":4812.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4813.354718750001,"end":4828.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4829.03159375,"end":4931.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4933.774718750001,"end":4938.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4951.544093750001,"end":4955.610968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4956.184718750001,"end":4957.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4958.78346875,"end":4959.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4959.694718750001,"end":4961.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4962.39471875,"end":4983.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4983.53909375,"end":5032.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5034.34971875,"end":5039.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5037.96096875,"end":5039.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5039.46284375,"end":5039.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5040.137843750001,"end":5041.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5041.859093749999,"end":5044.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5044.03596875,"end":5044.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5044.05284375,"end":5044.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5044.3397187499995,"end":5044.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5044.4072187500005,"end":5044.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5044.47471875,"end":5044.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5046.7528437500005,"end":5053.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5054.02596875,"end":5055.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5055.62909375,"end":5069.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5068.2684687500005,"end":5069.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5069.483468750001,"end":5069.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5069.753468750001,"end":5070.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5070.310343749999,"end":5070.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5070.3778437500005,"end":5072.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5071.05284375,"end":5072.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5073.044093750001,"end":5075.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5074.7147187499995,"end":5076.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5076.95909375,"end":5077.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5077.56659375,"end":5077.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5077.61721875,"end":5078.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5077.634093750001,"end":5080.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5083.33784375,"end":5089.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5089.632218750001,"end":5098.626593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5096.989718750001,"end":5099.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5100.95534375,"end":5101.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5102.82846875,"end":5111.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5108.22846875,"end":5108.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5108.41409375,"end":5110.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5110.354718750001,"end":5110.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5110.962218750001,"end":5111.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5111.654093749999,"end":5121.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5113.864718750001,"end":5114.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5122.6903437500005,"end":5125.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5127.550343750001,"end":5145.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5145.30284375,"end":5148.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5146.872218750001,"end":5147.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5148.34034375,"end":5148.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5148.4247187500005,"end":5149.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5149.0322187500005,"end":5149.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5149.04909375,"end":5149.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5149.50471875,"end":5149.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5149.52159375,"end":5152.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5150.68596875,"end":5170.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5161.84034375,"end":5163.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5164.405343750001,"end":5164.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5170.817843750001,"end":5171.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5172.96096875,"end":5173.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5173.399718750001,"end":5173.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5173.97346875,"end":5174.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5174.04096875,"end":5174.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5174.091593749999,"end":5174.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5174.12534375,"end":5174.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5174.96909375,"end":5175.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5175.559718750001,"end":5185.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5185.38096875,"end":5189.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5189.02596875,"end":5195.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5191.27034375,"end":5191.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5196.501593749999,"end":5201.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5199.0497187500005,"end":5199.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5201.243468750001,"end":5219.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5220.66659375,"end":5224.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5225.189093749999,"end":5226.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5227.51784375,"end":5241.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5242.73909375,"end":5243.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5243.97096875,"end":5244.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5245.28721875,"end":5256.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5251.7840937500005,"end":5265.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5266.262843750001,"end":5271.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5270.009093750001,"end":5276.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5272.9959687499995,"end":5274.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5276.97846875,"end":5291.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5291.575343750001,"end":5291.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5291.59221875,"end":5291.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5291.69346875,"end":5292.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5292.790343750001,"end":5296.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5292.80721875,"end":5293.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5293.88721875,"end":5293.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5297.26221875,"end":5306.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5306.712218750001,"end":5308.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5308.821593750001,"end":5323.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5325.52784375,"end":5325.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5325.747218750001,"end":5325.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5325.7978437500005,"end":5326.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5326.08471875,"end":5326.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5326.28721875,"end":5326.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5326.79346875,"end":5327.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5326.810343749999,"end":5334.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5329.51034375,"end":5333.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5334.91034375,"end":5336.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5337.47534375,"end":5347.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5337.593468749999,"end":5337.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5337.6103437500005,"end":5338.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5347.88721875,"end":5352.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5352.966593749999,"end":5354.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5355.43034375,"end":5367.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5357.53971875,"end":5359.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5367.02346875,"end":5369.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5369.97659375,"end":5371.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5371.444718750001,"end":5372.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5372.74409375,"end":5374.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5375.055968750001,"end":5377.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5382.936593750001,"end":5389.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5387.96534375,"end":5392.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5394.05721875,"end":5396.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5396.993468750001,"end":5399.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5400.2840937500005,"end":5405.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5405.717843750001,"end":5406.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5406.25784375,"end":5406.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5406.544718749999,"end":5406.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5406.561593750001,"end":5406.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5406.747218750001,"end":5407.017218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5407.017218749999,"end":5407.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5407.405343750001,"end":5407.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5407.42221875,"end":5408.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5407.489718750001,"end":5407.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5408.856593750001,"end":5409.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5409.092843750001,"end":5412.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5409.970343749999,"end":5411.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5412.56909375,"end":5413.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5414.07096875,"end":5417.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5418.357218749999,"end":5418.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5420.010968750001,"end":5420.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5420.97284375,"end":5421.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5421.02346875,"end":5432.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5421.411593750001,"end":5422.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5424.39846875,"end":5425.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5426.1365937499995,"end":5426.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5432.5322187500005,"end":5441.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5442.96096875,"end":5444.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5445.6103437500005,"end":5454.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5454.62159375,"end":5455.532843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5456.241593750001,"end":5468.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5459.59971875,"end":5460.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5461.05096875,"end":5461.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5464.29096875,"end":5464.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5468.50971875,"end":5470.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5470.99034375,"end":5471.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5471.243468750001,"end":5486.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5480.91284375,"end":5496.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5492.06721875,"end":5493.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5496.555968750001,"end":5496.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5496.5897187499995,"end":5496.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5496.62346875,"end":5496.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5496.8934687500005,"end":5496.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5496.977843750001,"end":5497.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5497.028468750001,"end":5499.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5497.70346875,"end":5499.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5499.81284375,"end":5499.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5499.880343750001,"end":5499.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5499.94784375,"end":5499.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5499.99846875,"end":5500.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5500.015343749999,"end":5500.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5500.97721875,"end":5501.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5501.061593750001,"end":5506.765343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5508.182843750001,"end":5511.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5513.16096875,"end":5513.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5515.05096875,"end":5515.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5515.962218750001,"end":5516.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5518.18971875,"end":5527.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5525.142218749999,"end":5535.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5534.35596875,"end":5540.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5537.86596875,"end":5539.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5540.59971875,"end":5541.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5541.595343749999,"end":5542.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5542.94534375,"end":5542.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5543.08034375,"end":5543.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5543.8397187499995,"end":5549.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5551.349093750001,"end":5553.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5553.89721875,"end":5561.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5562.419093750001,"end":5567.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5567.430968750001,"end":5569.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5569.725968750001,"end":5572.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5574.687218749999,"end":5584.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5585.74034375,"end":5590.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5591.3934687500005,"end":5591.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5592.67596875,"end":5592.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5592.692843750001,"end":5592.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5592.827843749999,"end":5592.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5592.91221875,"end":5593.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5595.66284375,"end":5597.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5597.198468750001,"end":5602.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5610.124718749999,"end":5616.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5616.975968750001,"end":5617.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5617.026593750001,"end":5617.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5617.9715937500005,"end":5618.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5618.0897187499995,"end":5618.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5618.96721875,"end":5619.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5619.034718750001,"end":5619.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5619.96284375,"end":5620.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5621.16096875,"end":5621.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5622.07221875,"end":5644.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5644.684718750001,"end":5660.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5661.036593750001,"end":5694.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5695.19159375,"end":5701.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5702.0428437499995,"end":5712.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5713.062218749999,"end":5722.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5722.05659375,"end":5724.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5725.22909375,"end":5733.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5733.514718750001,"end":5741.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5739.842843750001,"end":5741.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5741.429093750001,"end":5801.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5801.942843750001,"end":5817.501593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5816.472218750001,"end":5825.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5818.024718750001,"end":5818.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5824.65659375,"end":5840.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5840.16471875,"end":5861.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5862.405968749999,"end":5872.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5873.374718749999,"end":5882.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5882.21721875,"end":5884.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5884.90034375,"end":5885.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5885.17034375,"end":5885.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5885.22096875,"end":5885.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5885.27159375,"end":5885.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5885.288468750001,"end":5885.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5887.262843750001,"end":5887.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5887.904093749999,"end":5896.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5895.29534375,"end":5896.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5897.387843750001,"end":5900.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5900.6278437500005,"end":5904.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5901.53909375,"end":5901.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5902.956593750001,"end":5903.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5904.222218750001,"end":5904.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5904.694718750001,"end":5941.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5904.795968750001,"end":5904.829718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5941.6678437499995,"end":5942.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5943.52409375,"end":5951.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5952.56909375,"end":5966.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5967.11534375,"end":5969.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5969.950343750001,"end":5983.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5983.78784375,"end":5992.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5992.630343750001,"end":5993.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5993.6259687500005,"end":5995.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5995.70159375,"end":5996.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5996.49471875,"end":6001.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6001.60784375,"end":6020.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6021.85784375,"end":6035.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6036.927218750001,"end":6081.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6082.13534375,"end":6090.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6090.1678437499995,"end":6114.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6115.17659375,"end":6124.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6124.79534375,"end":6141.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6141.552218750001,"end":6156.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6157.19534375,"end":6209.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6210.19971875,"end":6210.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6210.216593749999,"end":6229.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6232.069718750001,"end":6232.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6234.735968750001,"end":6239.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6251.64471875,"end":6254.564093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6255.39096875,"end":6257.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6259.37346875,"end":6260.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6260.97659375,"end":6272.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6272.434718750001,"end":6272.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6272.468468749999,"end":6272.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6273.5653437500005,"end":6278.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6278.96534375,"end":6279.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6279.8934687500005,"end":6283.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6284.753468750001,"end":6290.187218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6290.77784375,"end":6301.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6301.864718750001,"end":6309.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6309.745343750001,"end":6317.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6318.4022187499995,"end":6324.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6325.253468750001,"end":6330.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6330.552218750001,"end":6334.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6334.78784375,"end":6339.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6340.626593750001,"end":6341.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6342.735968750001,"end":6360.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6360.53909375,"end":6360.555968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6361.635968750001,"end":6375.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6376.1990937499995,"end":6378.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6378.696593750001,"end":6391.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6392.095343750001,"end":6394.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6394.255343750001,"end":6396.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6397.124093750001,"end":6398.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6398.575343750001,"end":6406.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6405.7303437499995,"end":6407.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6407.097218750001,"end":6412.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6412.37909375,"end":6421.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6421.626593750001,"end":6428.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6430.030343750001,"end":6440.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6442.3153437500005,"end":6449.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6450.465968750001,"end":6462.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6462.61596875,"end":6463.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6464.151593750001,"end":6465.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6466.294718749999,"end":6467.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6469.0790937500005,"end":6476.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6476.97659375,"end":6487.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6487.0340937500005,"end":6494.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6495.2353437500005,"end":6510.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6499.23471875,"end":6500.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6511.215968750001,"end":6515.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6515.92409375,"end":6526.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6527.753468750001,"end":6529.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6530.099093750001,"end":6534.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6535.60034375,"end":6536.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6540.747218750001,"end":6544.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6540.84846875,"end":6541.439093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6541.439093750001,"end":6541.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6544.780343750001,"end":6551.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6552.62721875,"end":6555.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6555.5634687500005,"end":6557.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6557.97659375,"end":6563.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6563.12346875,"end":6564.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6565.165343750001,"end":6567.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6568.42221875,"end":6571.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6575.340968750001,"end":6576.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6577.60221875,"end":6579.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6581.12909375,"end":6582.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6583.89659375,"end":6587.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6589.634093750001,"end":6599.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6599.64096875,"end":6604.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6605.81721875,"end":6611.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6613.731593750001,"end":6614.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6614.524718750001,"end":6615.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6616.532843750001,"end":6617.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6619.51971875,"end":6623.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6623.92409375,"end":6627.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6627.687218749999,"end":6630.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6631.18034375,"end":6635.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6635.6522187499995,"end":6643.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6644.17409375,"end":6646.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6644.477843750001,"end":6645.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6646.671593749999,"end":6652.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6652.965968750001,"end":6655.345343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6655.5478437500005,"end":6656.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6656.77971875,"end":6666.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6667.84971875,"end":6669.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6669.925343750001,"end":6670.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6671.41034375,"end":6672.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6673.249718749999,"end":6673.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6674.81909375,"end":6676.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6676.4559687500005,"end":6677.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6677.620343750001,"end":6678.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6678.24471875,"end":6682.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6683.44221875,"end":6685.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6687.30659375,"end":6687.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6688.251593750001,"end":6690.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6697.65096875,"end":6707.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6707.3709687499995,"end":6707.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6707.6747187500005,"end":6707.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6707.7928437499995,"end":6707.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6713.5809687500005,"end":6786.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6787.47659375,"end":6839.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6839.97471875,"end":6849.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6849.6103437500005,"end":6855.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6855.0272187499995,"end":6856.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6856.917218750001,"end":6916.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6916.772843750001,"end":6923.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6923.53971875,"end":6947.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6947.95784375,"end":6954.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6954.032843750001,"end":6954.555968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6954.555968750001,"end":6955.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6954.5897187499995,"end":6955.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6955.3153437500005,"end":6955.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6955.8553437499995,"end":6963.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6964.37721875,"end":6967.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6966.33471875,"end":6966.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6968.07284375,"end":6971.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6971.73471875,"end":6972.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6973.00034375,"end":6981.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6982.349093750001,"end":6988.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6985.97721875,"end":7007.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6993.09846875,"end":6996.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7003.98284375,"end":7007.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7007.290343750001,"end":7007.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7007.64471875,"end":7007.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7007.762843750001,"end":7007.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7007.796593750001,"end":7008.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7008.10034375,"end":7027.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7027.118468750001,"end":7027.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7027.354718750001,"end":7027.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7027.55721875,"end":7034.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7035.30284375,"end":7085.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7085.69159375,"end":7085.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7085.82659375,"end":7085.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7085.894093750001,"end":7096.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7093.94346875,"end":7094.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7094.97284375,"end":7095.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7096.03596875,"end":7138.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7139.337218750001,"end":7139.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7139.573468750001,"end":7139.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7139.7928437499995,"end":7143.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7143.20159375,"end":7143.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7143.85971875,"end":7201.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7202.02784375,"end":7220.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7219.88159375,"end":7228.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7228.75784375,"end":7232.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7232.40284375,"end":7234.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7234.51221875,"end":7234.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7234.56284375,"end":7235.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7235.22096875,"end":7243.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7235.288468750001,"end":7235.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7238.106593750001,"end":7239.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7241.903468750001,"end":7246.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7246.679093750001,"end":7246.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7246.71284375,"end":7273.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7272.63284375,"end":7273.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7273.47659375,"end":7273.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7273.965968750001,"end":7273.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7273.98284375,"end":7274.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7274.03346875,"end":7275.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7274.286593750001,"end":7274.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7279.38284375,"end":7279.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7279.399718750001,"end":7279.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7282.251593750001,"end":7292.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7299.1434687500005,"end":7304.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7304.64471875,"end":7306.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7309.65659375,"end":7311.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7309.774718750001,"end":7309.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7309.8759687500005,"end":7309.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7309.94346875,"end":7309.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7309.960343750001,"end":7310.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7312.3397187499995,"end":7317.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7317.840968750001,"end":7331.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7331.982218749999,"end":7338.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7338.86721875,"end":7344.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7344.52034375,"end":7346.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7346.86596875,"end":7394.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7394.74034375,"end":7395.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7395.651593750001,"end":7401.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7398.638468749999,"end":7398.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7398.67221875,"end":7398.689093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7401.54096875,"end":7418.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7418.5340937500005,"end":7431.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7432.169093750001,"end":7434.126593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7434.919718749999,"end":7435.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7436.16846875,"end":7437.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7437.5184687500005,"end":7439.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7439.7459687499995,"end":7454.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7455.135968750001,"end":7470.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7471.13346875,"end":7471.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7471.97721875,"end":7476.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7474.74471875,"end":7478.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7478.794718749999,"end":7490.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7490.74221875,"end":7519.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7519.32846875,"end":7523.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7521.792218750001,"end":7524.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7524.694718750001,"end":7533.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7532.794718749999,"end":7535.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7536.456593750001,"end":7572.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7573.88534375,"end":7578.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7578.05346875,"end":7579.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7582.356593750001,"end":7584.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7584.95534375,"end":7586.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7586.64284375,"end":7593.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7593.7303437499995,"end":7593.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7593.76409375,"end":7593.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7593.94971875,"end":7597.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7595.82284375,"end":7597.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7597.729718750001,"end":7615.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7600.109093750001,"end":7600.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7616.1572187500005,"end":7645.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7639.866593750001,"end":7639.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7645.9247187500005,"end":7651.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7651.13909375,"end":7653.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7653.06284375,"end":7657.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7654.00784375,"end":7654.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7658.36159375,"end":7663.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7662.090968750001,"end":7662.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7663.94721875,"end":7667.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7665.465968750001,"end":7665.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7665.61784375,"end":7712.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7713.0028437500005,"end":7773.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7773.90471875,"end":7802.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7777.2459687499995,"end":7777.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7781.144093750001,"end":7781.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7781.380343750001,"end":7781.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7781.68409375,"end":7781.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7803.0478437500005,"end":7805.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7803.11534375,"end":7803.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7805.27534375,"end":7809.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7810.8778437500005,"end":7826.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7827.06096875,"end":7837.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7837.42221875,"end":7842.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7842.602843750001,"end":7845.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7846.214093750001,"end":7846.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7847.749718750001,"end":7852.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7860.034718750001,"end":7863.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7863.86534375,"end":7865.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7868.74221875,"end":7868.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7868.759093750001,"end":7868.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7868.82659375,"end":7869.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7869.29909375,"end":7896.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7896.788468750001,"end":7896.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7897.024718750001,"end":7903.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7904.145968750001,"end":7931.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7931.702843750001,"end":7960.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7934.200343750001,"end":7934.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7955.614718750001,"end":7955.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7955.63159375,"end":7956.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7960.7615937499995,"end":7961.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7961.30159375,"end":7965.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7965.95909375,"end":7970.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7970.83596875,"end":7970.852843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7970.852843750001,"end":7975.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7975.442843750001,"end":7978.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7978.17659375,"end":7992.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7992.94221875,"end":8011.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7999.28721875,"end":8000.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8000.16471875,"end":8000.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8011.825343750001,"end":8028.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8016.39846875,"end":8016.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8029.03784375,"end":8050.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8050.70534375,"end":8051.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8052.00471875,"end":8083.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8081.77221875,"end":8082.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8082.81846875,"end":8089.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8089.38284375,"end":8117.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8098.03971875,"end":8098.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8116.872218750001,"end":8119.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8119.4540937500005,"end":8131.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8132.1103437500005,"end":8134.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8134.42221875,"end":8134.439093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8134.540343750001,"end":8140.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8140.93596875,"end":8205.415343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8205.921593750001,"end":8243.384093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8222.864093750002,"end":8223.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8243.99159375,"end":8246.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8246.472218750001,"end":8246.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8246.52284375,"end":8253.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8248.277843750002,"end":8248.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8254.335968750001,"end":8256.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8256.445343750001,"end":8289.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8289.68909375,"end":8302.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8302.227218750002,"end":8316.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8316.21659375,"end":8347.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8347.90784375,"end":8362.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8351.24909375,"end":8351.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8367.027218750001,"end":8368.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8368.42784375,"end":8374.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8379.51471875,"end":8386.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8389.757843750001,"end":8390.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8390.83784375,"end":8390.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8390.88846875,"end":8390.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8390.90534375,"end":8390.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8390.93909375,"end":8390.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8390.972843750002,"end":8391.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8391.023468750001,"end":8392.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8393.082218750002,"end":8530.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8531.54159375,"end":8582.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8585.27159375,"end":8596.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8597.894093750001,"end":8597.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8597.910968750002,"end":8597.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8597.97846875,"end":8606.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8601.809093750002,"end":8602.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8602.028468750003,"end":8602.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8606.027843750002,"end":8675.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8678.35409375,"end":8680.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8683.973468750002,"end":8693.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8693.625968750002,"end":8694.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8694.31784375,"end":8694.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8694.33471875,"end":8700.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8696.42721875,"end":8696.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8700.49409375,"end":8702.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8702.19846875,"end":8703.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8704.03784375,"end":8755.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8757.39659375,"end":8765.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8763.04971875,"end":8763.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8763.10034375,"end":8763.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8765.61471875,"end":8779.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8770.32284375,"end":8770.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8776.617218750001,"end":8776.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8779.789718750002,"end":8781.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8781.93284375,"end":8785.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8786.269718750002,"end":8867.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8869.159718750001,"end":8891.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8891.839718750001,"end":8894.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8894.30346875,"end":8894.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8894.590343750002,"end":8894.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8894.759093750003,"end":8919.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8919.852218750002,"end":8920.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8919.93659375,"end":8920.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8920.08846875,"end":8920.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8920.76346875,"end":8920.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8920.965968750003,"end":8923.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9231.347843750002,"end":9236.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9244.122218750003,"end":9248.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9248.03721875,"end":9248.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9252.35721875,"end":9281.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9281.601593750001,"end":9313.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9312.567218750002,"end":9312.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9312.989093750002,"end":9322.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9322.50659375,"end":9328.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9328.19346875,"end":9375.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9372.743468750003,"end":9373.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9373.75596875,"end":9400.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9401.430968750003,"end":9402.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9402.375968750002,"end":9403.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9403.77659375,"end":9416.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9416.95596875,"end":9417.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9417.242843750002,"end":9417.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9417.293468750002,"end":9420.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9417.78284375,"end":9417.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9420.145343750002,"end":9450.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9430.422218750002,"end":9430.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9431.417843750001,"end":9431.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9431.434718750003,"end":9431.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9450.90846875,"end":9453.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9454.95846875,"end":9464.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9460.746593750002,"end":9460.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9460.78034375,"end":9461.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9464.864093750002,"end":9467.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9470.26409375,"end":9497.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9498.05721875,"end":9533.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9534.76034375,"end":9535.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9536.07659375,"end":9573.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9574.382843750001,"end":9596.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9607.660343750002,"end":9610.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9613.75221875,"end":9618.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9618.54471875,"end":9618.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9618.848468750002,"end":9624.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9618.86534375,"end":9618.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9625.159718750001,"end":9633.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9633.124718750001,"end":9638.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9639.149093750002,"end":9639.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9639.21659375,"end":9640.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9640.11096875,"end":9641.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9641.258468750002,"end":9650.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9649.847843750002,"end":9679.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9651.14721875,"end":9651.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9680.172218750002,"end":9715.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9716.250968750002,"end":9728.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9728.72159375,"end":9734.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9733.699718750002,"end":9734.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9735.640343750001,"end":9744.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9748.634093750003,"end":9748.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9748.667843750001,"end":9748.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9748.785968750002,"end":9749.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9750.456593750001,"end":9753.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9758.759093750003,"end":9768.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9763.922843750002,"end":9764.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9765.340343750002,"end":9765.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9765.84659375,"end":9765.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9769.508468750002,"end":9769.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9770.132843750001,"end":9788.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9790.31534375,"end":9803.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9803.39346875,"end":9803.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9803.42721875,"end":9805.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9805.840343750002,"end":9806.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9806.24534375,"end":9808.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9807.88221875,"end":9814.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9814.04159375,"end":9814.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9814.109093750001,"end":9814.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9814.19346875,"end":9814.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9814.227218750002,"end":9814.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9814.24409375,"end":9814.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9814.26096875,"end":9814.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9814.379093750002,"end":9814.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9814.41284375,"end":9814.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9814.429718750001,"end":9814.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9814.446593750003,"end":9820.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9815.273468750001,"end":9815.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9819.171593750001,"end":9825.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9826.00596875,"end":9830.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9829.17846875,"end":9829.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9829.667843750001,"end":9860.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9832.13159375,"end":9832.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9832.300343750001,"end":9832.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9858.777218750001,"end":9883.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9860.66721875,"end":9862.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9883.17846875,"end":9884.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9884.42721875,"end":9887.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9888.629093750002,"end":9890.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9890.215343750002,"end":9922.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9923.340968750003,"end":9933.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9933.887843750003,"end":9935.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9935.035343750002,"end":9936.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9936.65534375,"end":9940.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9940.97534375,"end":9941.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9941.17784375,"end":9947.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9947.590343750002,"end":9960.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9961.42784375,"end":9962.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9962.96346875,"end":9986.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9987.31409375,"end":10052.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10053.88596875,"end":10055.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10055.759093750003,"end":10055.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10055.77596875,"end":10059.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10055.792843750001,"end":10057.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10060.04534375,"end":10062.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10061.969093750002,"end":10096.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10097.32221875,"end":10102.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10098.97596875,"end":10099.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10101.23721875,"end":10106.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10102.90784375,"end":10102.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10103.81909375,"end":10104.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10106.485343750002,"end":10106.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10107.14346875,"end":10114.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10115.800343750001,"end":10119.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10117.757843750001,"end":10122.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10123.731593750003,"end":10123.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10123.74846875,"end":10123.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10123.90034375,"end":10123.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10123.96784375,"end":10127.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10124.625968750002,"end":10125.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10127.91659375,"end":10134.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10133.046593750001,"end":10133.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10134.61596875,"end":10136.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10136.20221875,"end":10136.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10136.219093750002,"end":10138.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10136.99534375,"end":10138.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10138.750343750002,"end":10141.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10141.180343750002,"end":10141.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10141.19721875,"end":10148.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10148.52096875,"end":10148.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10148.571593750003,"end":10151.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10149.044093750003,"end":10149.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10149.90471875,"end":10154.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10152.773468750001,"end":10153.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10154.34284375,"end":10154.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10154.410343750002,"end":10156.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10155.08534375,"end":10160.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10161.008468750002,"end":10161.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10161.210968750001,"end":10164.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10164.012218750002,"end":10164.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10164.36659375,"end":10167.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10167.74159375,"end":10169.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10169.918468750002,"end":10176.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10176.972218750001,"end":10179.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10179.891593750002,"end":10182.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10182.726593750001,"end":10194.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10191.214718750001,"end":10191.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10194.218468750001,"end":10201.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10201.47471875,"end":10203.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10203.195968750002,"end":10209.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10209.43971875,"end":10212.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10210.148468750001,"end":10213.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10213.03409375,"end":10217.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10217.370968750001,"end":10223.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10223.51346875,"end":10226.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10227.37784375,"end":10228.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10228.54221875,"end":10236.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10238.17784375,"end":10240.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10241.82284375,"end":10242.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10242.24471875,"end":10244.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10244.82659375,"end":10294.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10295.56971875,"end":10320.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10321.23659375,"end":10331.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10331.395343750002,"end":10331.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10331.88471875,"end":10335.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10336.00221875,"end":10336.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10337.06534375,"end":10343.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10344.051593750002,"end":10351.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10352.050343750001,"end":10353.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10353.231593750003,"end":10365.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10355.644718750002,"end":10355.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10366.42784375,"end":10367.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10367.42346875,"end":10374.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10375.06784375,"end":10375.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10375.13534375,"end":10375.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10375.540343750003,"end":10376.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10380.332843750002,"end":10380.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10380.34971875,"end":10381.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10381.93596875,"end":10386.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10386.492218750001,"end":10387.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10400.07659375,"end":10406.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10406.809718750003,"end":10408.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10410.539093750001,"end":10428.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10411.872218750003,"end":10411.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10411.922843750002,"end":10412.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10412.04096875,"end":10412.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10431.34596875,"end":10433.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10433.759093750003,"end":10438.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10438.973468750002,"end":10473.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10473.449093750001,"end":10474.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10474.613468750002,"end":10475.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10475.879093750002,"end":10476.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10477.75221875,"end":10478.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10479.574718750002,"end":10480.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10481.22846875,"end":10481.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10481.835968750001,"end":10512.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10513.25721875,"end":10547.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10549.04909375,"end":10556.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10559.32596875,"end":10568.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10568.97846875,"end":10569.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10569.012218750002,"end":10569.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10569.07971875,"end":10569.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10569.24846875,"end":10580.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10569.34971875,"end":10569.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10569.92346875,"end":10569.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10570.04159375,"end":10570.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10570.125968750002,"end":10570.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10570.159718750001,"end":10570.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10578.32721875,"end":10584.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10585.515968750002,"end":10599.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10601.024093750002,"end":10613.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10613.44409375,"end":10644.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10644.59534375,"end":10662.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10663.79909375,"end":10664.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10666.12784375,"end":10667.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10668.76034375,"end":10678.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10677.737843750001,"end":10678.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10678.480343750001,"end":10678.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10678.51409375,"end":10682.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10682.226593750001,"end":10732.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10733.61096875,"end":10733.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10735.56846875,"end":10754.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10755.04221875,"end":10760.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10760.72909375,"end":10761.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10761.285968750002,"end":10762.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10762.78784375,"end":10769.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10770.11159375,"end":10773.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10774.684718750003,"end":10785.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10785.653468750003,"end":10805.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10805.987843750001,"end":10806.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10806.848468750002,"end":10807.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10814.020343750002,"end":10839.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10839.265343750001,"end":10846.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10846.47096875,"end":10858.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10851.668468750002,"end":10853.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10858.199093750001,"end":10860.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10860.375968750002,"end":10865.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10864.18971875,"end":10865.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10865.87721875,"end":10866.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10865.961593750002,"end":10865.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10865.99534375,"end":10867.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10867.46346875,"end":10867.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10867.66596875,"end":10867.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10867.969718750002,"end":10875.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10875.58034375,"end":10905.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10910.12346875,"end":10910.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10912.722218750001,"end":10912.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10912.789718750002,"end":10913.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10913.532218750002,"end":10913.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10913.97096875,"end":10914.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10914.24096875,"end":10961.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10962.43596875,"end":10965.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10965.96284375,"end":10966.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10966.48596875,"end":10966.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10966.519718750002,"end":10974.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10977.640343750001,"end":10993.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11003.56034375,"end":11003.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11003.965343750002,"end":11004.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11004.03284375,"end":11004.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11004.977843750003,"end":11005.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11005.028468750003,"end":11005.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11005.973468750002,"end":11006.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11006.715968750003,"end":11006.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11010.597218750001,"end":11048.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11049.055343750002,"end":11049.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11050.101593750001,"end":11050.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11051.62034375,"end":11066.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11066.149718750003,"end":11069.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11070.23346875,"end":11073.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11074.300343750001,"end":11082.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11082.34971875,"end":11123.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11124.149093750002,"end":11125.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11125.02659375,"end":11131.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11131.202843750001,"end":11151.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11153.32596875,"end":11159.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11159.586593750002,"end":11164.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11159.957843750002,"end":11161.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11162.320343750001,"end":11162.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11162.910968750002,"end":11162.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11163.113468750002,"end":11163.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11164.952843750001,"end":11164.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11165.20596875,"end":11187.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11165.324093750001,"end":11165.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11189.168468750002,"end":11196.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11198.88846875,"end":11200.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11201.774093750002,"end":11206.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11202.17909375,"end":11203.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11207.460968750001,"end":11236.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11238.51096875,"end":11242.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11242.544093750003,"end":11244.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11244.805343750002,"end":11247.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11247.62346875,"end":11248.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11251.16721875,"end":11264.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11266.01721875,"end":11266.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11266.81034375,"end":11278.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11278.04909375,"end":11306.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11307.546593750001,"end":11313.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11315.54534375,"end":11318.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11318.71784375,"end":11322.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11321.02971875,"end":11321.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11323.071593750003,"end":11327.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11328.066593750002,"end":11329.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11329.652843750002,"end":11334.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11334.968468750001,"end":11340.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11338.934093750002,"end":11363.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11367.992843750002,"end":11372.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11380.058468750001,"end":11385.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11387.972843750002,"end":11388.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11388.512843750003,"end":11397.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11397.70971875,"end":11397.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11397.726593750001,"end":11398.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11398.06409375,"end":11411.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11412.40784375,"end":11413.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11413.26846875,"end":11419.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11422.617218750001,"end":11424.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11425.70534375,"end":11434.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11435.30721875,"end":11441.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11442.765968750002,"end":11482.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11485.39221875,"end":11508.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11508.81471875,"end":11545.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11547.964718750001,"end":11560.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11561.12721875,"end":11563.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11564.114093750002,"end":11575.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11567.117843750002,"end":11567.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11575.285343750002,"end":11632.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11633.520968750003,"end":11644.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11644.03409375,"end":11644.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11644.371593750002,"end":11644.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11644.38846875,"end":11644.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11644.422218750002,"end":11644.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11644.489718750003,"end":11644.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11645.14784375,"end":11645.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11645.164718750002,"end":11651.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11651.442218750002,"end":11674.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11675.050343750001,"end":11734.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11678.40846875,"end":11678.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11679.79221875,"end":11679.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11734.68659375,"end":11749.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11749.300343750001,"end":11754.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11754.801593750002,"end":11757.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11757.99096875,"end":11780.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11780.063468750002,"end":11780.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11780.08034375,"end":11780.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11780.18159375,"end":11780.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11780.417843750001,"end":11780.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11780.45159375,"end":11811.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11811.99096875,"end":11812.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11812.09221875,"end":11812.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11812.19346875,"end":11813.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11813.070968750002,"end":11830.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11813.08784375,"end":11813.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11813.15534375,"end":11813.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11832.679718750001,"end":11834.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11835.683468750001,"end":11849.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11850.60096875,"end":11889.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11890.40909375,"end":11891.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11891.050343750001,"end":11899.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11897.88471875,"end":11897.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11899.285343750002,"end":11918.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11918.016593750002,"end":11928.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11925.762218750002,"end":11926.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11929.559093750002,"end":11930.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11930.976593750001,"end":11940.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11941.101593750001,"end":11942.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11943.14346875,"end":11945.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11952.644093750001,"end":11959.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11959.782218750002,"end":11961.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11964.55784375,"end":11978.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11979.47534375,"end":11980.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11980.74096875,"end":11981.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11981.922218750002,"end":11982.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11982.58034375,"end":11983.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11984.942843750003,"end":11985.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11985.415343750003,"end":11991.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11991.97971875,"end":11997.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11998.020968750003,"end":11998.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11998.206593750001,"end":12006.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12007.724093750003,"end":12012.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12011.352218750002,"end":12012.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12012.870968750001,"end":12013.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12013.984718750002,"end":12017.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12018.000968750002,"end":12022.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12024.227843750003,"end":12027.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12027.855968750002,"end":12028.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12028.868468750003,"end":12052.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12054.737843750001,"end":12061.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12059.00721875,"end":12059.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12060.72846875,"end":12063.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12067.191593750002,"end":12069.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12069.081593750001,"end":12076.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12075.96659375,"end":12076.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12076.270343750002,"end":12076.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12076.523468750001,"end":12076.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12076.65846875,"end":12077.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12077.012843750003,"end":12095.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12097.11096875,"end":12098.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12097.262843750003,"end":12099.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12099.304718750001,"end":12100.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12101.515343750001,"end":12101.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12101.97096875,"end":12102.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12102.02159375,"end":12102.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12102.03846875,"end":12102.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12103.000343750002,"end":12105.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12106.155968750001,"end":12120.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12120.921593750001,"end":12142.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12143.280968750001,"end":12143.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12144.175343750001,"end":12150.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12150.030968750001,"end":12151.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12152.258468750002,"end":12163.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12163.73346875,"end":12171.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12171.023468750001,"end":12178.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12171.37784375,"end":12172.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12178.27971875,"end":12183.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12183.03846875,"end":12185.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12185.114093750002,"end":12188.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12188.97846875,"end":12194.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12192.10034375,"end":12193.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12194.73284375,"end":12199.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12199.407218750002,"end":12209.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12210.12284375,"end":12211.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12212.046593750001,"end":12212.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12212.063468750002,"end":12212.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12212.940968750001,"end":12214.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12214.864718750003,"end":12215.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12215.759093750003,"end":12215.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12215.792843750001,"end":12215.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12215.87721875,"end":12215.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12215.961593750002,"end":12215.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12215.97846875,"end":12216.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12216.40034375,"end":12216.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12216.484718750002,"end":12244.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12244.598468750002,"end":12254.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12254.706593750001,"end":12257.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12257.777843750002,"end":12266.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12266.519093750001,"end":12269.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12270.113468750002,"end":12344.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12347.28284375,"end":12348.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12349.847843750002,"end":12362.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12374.50221875,"end":12376.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12377.843468750001,"end":12379.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12380.20596875,"end":12381.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12381.35346875,"end":12384.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12382.72034375,"end":12384.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12384.880343750003,"end":12385.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12386.01096875,"end":12388.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12388.812218750001,"end":12390.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12391.242218750001,"end":12456.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12391.32659375,"end":12391.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12456.632843750001,"end":12470.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12471.246593750002,"end":12472.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12472.79909375,"end":12507.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12508.28721875,"end":12532.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12533.17784375,"end":12538.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12539.03346875,"end":12540.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12540.34971875,"end":12543.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12543.539093750001,"end":12544.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12545.294093750003,"end":12574.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12574.386593750001,"end":12574.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12576.512843750003,"end":12599.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12599.614718750003,"end":12599.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12599.766593750002,"end":12600.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12600.492218750001,"end":12605.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12605.95971875,"end":12609.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12609.53721875,"end":12620.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12620.82659375,"end":12626.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12626.243468750003,"end":12633.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12634.15784375,"end":12638.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12638.039093750001,"end":12638.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12638.629718750002,"end":12638.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12638.66346875,"end":12638.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12638.76471875,"end":12648.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12639.321593750003,"end":12639.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12647.370968750001,"end":12653.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12650.324093750001,"end":12652.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12653.024093750002,"end":12657.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12654.137843750003,"end":12654.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12655.825343750003,"end":12656.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12657.664718750002,"end":12661.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12661.309718750003,"end":12661.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12661.57971875,"end":12661.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12662.136593750001,"end":12664.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12664.02659375,"end":12664.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12664.262843750003,"end":12664.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12664.43159375,"end":12665.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12664.48221875,"end":12665.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12665.02221875,"end":12673.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12666.92909375,"end":12668.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12673.965968750003,"end":12683.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12683.770343750002,"end":12685.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12683.820968750002,"end":12687.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12685.980968750002,"end":12689.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12689.06909375,"end":12690.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12690.722843750002,"end":12690.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12690.773468750001,"end":12690.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12690.891593750002,"end":12691.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12692.055968750003,"end":12700.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12700.847843750002,"end":12700.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12700.965968750003,"end":12700.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12700.98284375,"end":12701.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12701.370968750001,"end":12707.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12704.47596875,"end":12705.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12707.445968750002,"end":12710.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12711.15846875,"end":12740.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12741.11159375,"end":12741.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12742.208468750003,"end":12750.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12745.634093750003,"end":12746.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12746.089718750001,"end":12746.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12746.190968750001,"end":12746.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12750.86534375,"end":12759.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12759.74159375,"end":12789.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12789.30659375,"end":12794.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12794.925968750002,"end":12802.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12802.77284375,"end":12808.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12808.864718750003,"end":12811.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12812.762843750003,"end":12818.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12814.83846875,"end":12815.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12815.395343750002,"end":12815.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12818.36534375,"end":12821.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12821.571593750003,"end":12824.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12824.406593750002,"end":12836.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12836.55659375,"end":12843.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12837.383468750002,"end":12837.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12837.737843750001,"end":12837.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12837.754718750002,"end":12838.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12839.745968750001,"end":12840.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12843.79596875,"end":12864.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12864.87284375,"end":12864.923468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12864.923468750003,"end":12865.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12865.024718750003,"end":12870.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12870.42471875,"end":12871.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12872.36534375,"end":12878.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12873.00659375,"end":12873.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12877.17471875,"end":12880.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12881.055968750003,"end":12882.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12883.35096875,"end":12885.595343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12883.40159375,"end":12884.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12885.98346875,"end":12887.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12887.67096875,"end":12896.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12895.78784375,"end":12924.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12898.94346875,"end":12900.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12923.024093750002,"end":12927.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12925.69034375,"end":12932.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12933.55409375,"end":12933.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12933.570968750002,"end":12934.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12934.02659375,"end":12934.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12936.203468750002,"end":12937.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12947.003468750001,"end":12952.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12952.36971875,"end":12954.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12957.195968750002,"end":12957.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12957.26346875,"end":12957.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12957.297218750002,"end":12958.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12958.714718750001,"end":12959.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12959.86221875,"end":12969.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12972.51846875,"end":12980.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12980.972843750002,"end":12981.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12981.175343750001,"end":12981.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12982.15409375,"end":12982.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12982.17096875,"end":12984.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12985.090343750002,"end":12989.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12989.849093750003,"end":12989.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12989.882843750001,"end":12989.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12990.11909375,"end":13004.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13004.699093750001,"end":13005.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13005.914093750001,"end":13006.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13007.348468750002,"end":13013.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13013.085968750001,"end":13014.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13014.97596875,"end":13028.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13017.102218750002,"end":13019.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13025.860343750002,"end":13025.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13028.89784375,"end":13028.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13029.40409375,"end":13029.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13029.42096875,"end":13029.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13029.505343750003,"end":13029.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13029.977843750003,"end":13030.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13030.09596875,"end":13030.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13030.180343750002,"end":13030.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13030.24784375,"end":13030.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13030.31534375,"end":13030.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13031.648468750001,"end":13033.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13033.11659375,"end":13057.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13033.26846875,"end":13034.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13043.86596875,"end":13044.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13057.41659375,"end":13059.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13061.567843750003,"end":13069.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13066.12409375,"end":13067.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13067.254718750002,"end":13071.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13070.140343750001,"end":13070.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13071.777218750001,"end":13075.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13076.08034375,"end":13095.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13095.672218750002,"end":13097.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13099.789718750002,"end":13100.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13101.71346875,"end":13105.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13105.898468750001,"end":13112.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13113.37409375,"end":13114.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13114.724093750003,"end":13115.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13116.715343750002,"end":13126.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13126.941593750002,"end":13129.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13130.97471875,"end":13131.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13132.324718750002,"end":13133.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13134.164093750001,"end":13136.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13136.813468750002,"end":13137.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13137.30284375,"end":13138.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13139.142218750003,"end":13141.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13142.26409375,"end":13144.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13144.508468750002,"end":13145.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13146.735968750003,"end":13147.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13147.42784375,"end":13148.423468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13149.317843750003,"end":13158.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13159.274093750002,"end":13172.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13167.711593750002,"end":13168.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13168.403468750003,"end":13168.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13172.976593750001,"end":13178.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13178.190968750001,"end":13181.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13179.456593750001,"end":13193.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13182.105968750002,"end":13183.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13194.171593750001,"end":13197.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13197.69846875,"end":13199.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13199.84159375,"end":13200.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13200.80346875,"end":13202.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13203.21659375,"end":13219.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13219.31534375,"end":13222.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13223.230343750001,"end":13223.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13224.69846875,"end":13228.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13227.68534375,"end":13228.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13228.86659375,"end":13246.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13231.667843750001,"end":13232.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13245.707843750002,"end":13252.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13252.727843750003,"end":13252.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13252.829093750002,"end":13254.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13252.980968750002,"end":13256.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13256.625968750002,"end":13260.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13258.00971875,"end":13261.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13261.418468750002,"end":13261.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13261.671593750001,"end":13262.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13262.211593750002,"end":13278.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13264.03409375,"end":13264.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13276.42034375,"end":13276.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13276.825343750003,"end":13276.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13279.137218750002,"end":13282.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13283.38971875,"end":13289.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13289.835968750001,"end":13315.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13315.45221875,"end":13320.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13320.56534375,"end":13335.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13320.632843750001,"end":13321.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13336.984718750002,"end":13337.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13337.86221875,"end":13346.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13346.755343750003,"end":13383.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13447.836593750002,"end":13447.92096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":303.666,"end":306.12,"text":"本集完"},{"start":1761.736,"end":1779.78,"text":"報告委員會我們現在繼續開會那我們今天的議程是邀請核能安全委員會的主任委員陳東陽還有我們經濟部次長列席就展望全球核能發電趨勢還有我國核電廠延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃我們要來進行專案報告並備質詢我們首先介紹在場的委員紅孟楷委員"},{"start":1788.76,"end":1813.101,"text":"我們今天在場的行政院的一些官員是核能安全委員會的主任委員陳東陽謝謝還有我們核能安全委員會的副主任委員還有我們的技科技研究院的董事長張欣謝謝還有我們的經濟部的常務次長林全能還有我們的司長胡文忠我們經濟部能源署的副署長吳志偉"},{"start":1815.709,"end":1822.591,"text":"還有我們經濟部產業發展署的副署長周雨欣謝謝還有我們台灣電力股份公司的副總經理徐永輝"},{"start":1825.131,"end":1846.436,"text":"謝謝還有我們環境部的氣候變遷署的組長溫玉勇還有我們環境保護司的檢任記者呂雅雯好那其他的部分裡面就謝謝各位來到我們這個教文委員會那我們現在呢就請我們的核能安全委員會的陳主任委員來進行報告報告時間是8分鐘"},{"start":1857.082,"end":1874.195,"text":"主席各位委員女士先生大家好今天很榮幸代表核能安全委員會向大院進行專題報告首先向大院委員對本會各項工作的支持及指教至上敬意及謝承"},{"start":1875.353,"end":1890.477,"text":"以下僅就本日主題一序就展望全球核能發電趨勢我國核電廠延役推動狀況以及發展新型核能成為永續能源的規劃進行報告"},{"start":1893.16,"end":1916.465,"text":"首先近代全球核能的使用趨勢有兩個重要的轉折一是311日本福島事故之後部分國家省思在複合式災害下的核電安全另一者是氣候協定之後如何有效降低二氧化碳排放下的能源選擇以國際能源數"},{"start":1922.489,"end":1937.41,"text":"對世界各國使用核電的統計2022年全球平均約9.2%其中由美國、日本、法國等使用能源的國家"},{"start":1938.516,"end":1962.047,"text":"也有德國、意大利、澳洲等未使用核能的國家其他各國都會以自己的需求跟認知來評估使用或不使用核能在最近一兩年國際重要的活動當中我們可以看到對於有關核能的聲明包括COP28"},{"start":1963.763,"end":1991.116,"text":"核能高峰會以及七大工業國部長級會議對於核能在淨零減碳過程中的定位以及核能所具有的風險跟成本都有所著墨但國際之音對於核能是否為綠色能源以及核電廠的安全問題跟核廢料的最終處置仍有不同的聲音"},{"start":1992.264,"end":2013.522,"text":"而決定使用或不使用核能必須在充分對話跟資訊對等的基礎上取得社會共識這些國際上的即時動態跟訊息核安會持續透過駐外人員交流管道掌握並獲取即時的資訊同時透過雙邊協定"},{"start":2017.093,"end":2039.008,"text":"合作研究計畫來拓展我國在核能合作交流的網路以及國際能鑑度接下來對於國內核電廠延役的議題首先核安會為獨立的核能安全管制機關跟國際核能先進國家"},{"start":2041.38,"end":2065.493,"text":"的管制機關例如美國的核管會NRC日本的原子力規制委員會NRA一樣本與依法賦予的職責獨立行使原子能安全管制工作而國內核電廠的研議議題系屬國家能源政策的範疇為國家能源主管機關的權責"},{"start":2069.206,"end":2094.274,"text":"國內核一二廠已進入長達25年的除役過程核安會持續掌握國際管制技術強化安全管制督促台電公司加速乾除設施的興建並推動原子能科技的應用在農、醫、工、環境永續的領域提升民眾的福祉"},{"start":2096.304,"end":2120.66,"text":"對於核電廠延役的法規方面現有的核管法對於販花運轉執照的申請條件時程應該檢附的申請文件都有相關的規定我國核一二廠的運轉執照都已經借期進入除役的階段核三廠的執照也將到期"},{"start":2121.747,"end":2148.934,"text":"所以國內核電廠的申請延役的法定期限都已經超過目前核一二廠用過燃料池已接近滿儲核三儲存空間有限只能夠提供數年而已目前台電核一廠乾除執行水土保持改善工程在取得新北市核發完工證明之後就可以進行熱測試"},{"start":2150.896,"end":2179.238,"text":"核安會將持續督促台電公司加速推動各核電廠的乾除設施就核電廠的研議作業而言經營者必須依照規定提出研議安全性評估的文件向管制機關提出申請而管制機關將嚴格審查電廠所提出的申請文件並且執行安全審查以及現場視察"},{"start":2182.624,"end":2206.226,"text":"確認基礎狀況符合法規跟安全的要求。核安會尊重大院委員對各項研議的修法跟立法本次報告的電廠研議涉及核能安全跟公共利益就核安會的職責首要確保核能安全核廢的處理能夠妥善處理"},{"start":2207.947,"end":2233.186,"text":"第三部分就新型核能作為永續能源的規劃進行概要說明國際論壇所提出的第四代核能技術這項新的技術主要是改善舊有的機型提升核能使用永續性跟可靠性但離實際商業運轉仍有很大的距離"},{"start":2235.106,"end":2260.572,"text":"相較於第三代大型核電廠建造的時間較長國際間將注意力轉移到小型模組化的反應器SMR發展上只是國際上大部分的SMR計畫都在設計跟研發階段美國也曾因為成本因素終止NewScale的公司的SMR計畫"},{"start":2262.093,"end":2291.442,"text":"目前國內正著手進行資料收集熱流分析等以掌握新技術跟培育人才核融合被視為一個竭盡的新能源相較於傳統的核能發電具有安全低放射性污染的特點但是涉及複雜的科學跟工程的問題需要技術突破跟大量的資金挹注"},{"start":2293.015,"end":2316.81,"text":"目前國際間積極發展的核融合技術國研院已和國內大學及法人共同執行磁約束高溫電漿研究的整核型計畫預計在4年內完成國內首套小型球型托卡馬克研究用的實驗裝置"},{"start":2319.997,"end":2347.607,"text":"最後核安會將持續以現有的國際合作跟交流管道掌握全球核能發展的趨勢跟最新的核能技術的研發對於研議的議題仍需由經濟部從能源整體規劃可行性跟效益等審慎評估而前提是核安確保核廢能夠妥善處理以及建立社會共識"},{"start":2349.633,"end":2373.821,"text":"核安會作為獨立的安全管制機關．無論核電廠的除役或運轉．經會本於職責做好核安管制的工作．為民眾安全把關以上報告不禁之處 敬請委員指教謝謝好我們非常謝謝陳主委的口頭報告那我們接下來是不是我們請經濟部的林次長來進行報告時間是3分鐘"},{"start":2381.058,"end":2393.67,"text":"主席、各位委員、經濟部就委員會所指定展望全球核能發電趨勢．我國核電廠延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃的議題進行報告．"},{"start":2396.092,"end":2417.197,"text":"首先就全球核能發電的趨勢來進行說明一據國際能源總署IEA報告2022年全球核能發電占比為9%而在近年排放情境下預估2030與2050年核能發電占比分別為10%與8%二、全球核能居足的運轉現況"},{"start":2418.797,"end":2446.192,"text":"目前有416部核能基礎在全球運轉中依據國際原子能總署 統計資料包括我國核三廠兩部基礎全球目前共有416部核能基礎運轉中其中以美國94部最多法國中國大陸各56部赤芝東亞部分韓國26部日本12部2022年全球核能基礎共提供近25000億度的電力"},{"start":2448.593,"end":2474.466,"text":"二有59部的核能機組目前正在建造中全球目前有15個國家共59部核能機組建造中其中中國大陸25部最多印度7部設置東亞部分韓國有2部在進行建造中三目前有210部的核能機組停役中全球目前已有210部核能機組停止運轉進入除役狀態"},{"start":2475.626,"end":2487.491,"text":"包括美國41部．德國33部．東亞部分．日本有24部．韓國2部．以及我國核一二廠4部機組．正在這個庭議除役中"},{"start":2488.621,"end":2513.39,"text":"三就各國這個核電的選擇一自身國情的環境而有所不同的考量國際上對於核電的使用系尊重各國的選擇不同國家依國情環境而有不同考量部分國家考量核能在發電過程中不排碳在國際減碳淨零趨勢下選擇核電作為減碳的工具之一也有國家為了支持核工業而選擇發展核電"},{"start":2515.071,"end":2528.607,"text":"亦有因考量核能安全及核廢料處理問題而選擇非核各國有不同的特殊環境來作考量國際間將加強先進核能技術的交流與發展依據2024年4月28日"},{"start":2531.26,"end":2548.479,"text":"至30日的七大工業國組織的氣候能源跟環境部長全體會議所發布的聯合聲明對於選擇或支持核能使用的國家將促進其核電技術的研究開發與部署包含小型核反應爐同時促進國際核融合合作"},{"start":2548.939,"end":2561.511,"text":"加速核融合發電廠的開發與示範．成立G7核融合工作小組．加強跨國的研究與開發合作．同時提出適合的監管方式那我國核電廠延役的推動狀況一我國核電的"},{"start":2564.514,"end":2568.655,"text":"展望全球核能發電趨勢及文化委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":2588.321,"end":2605.152,"text":"發電重要設備已近10年未維護．核二廠目前因用過燃料池已經放滿用過燃料棒．但該處設施尚未興建．以致現有反應爐內的用過核燃料棒．無法移出更新燃料．要機提選於2021年7月2日停機．二號機僅能運轉．至2023年3月"},{"start":2610.455,"end":2630.183,"text":"運轉執照借起而兩部及時無法持續運轉另一核反應器設施管制法運轉執照借起後已不得運轉三核三廠兩部及運轉執照將分別於今年的7月27日及明年5月27日借起依法已超過延宜的申請期限"},{"start":2632.61,"end":2657.691,"text":"針對核電廠延役的條件來進行說明：延役面臨核子反應器設施管制法等法規的規範至於核安部分．台電公司需進行核電廠安全的總集檢．設備的汰換更新．輔導安全強化及耐震補強的評估這個是最重要的條件第二個很重要的部分就是核廢料的處理核二廠用過燃料池已滿"},{"start":2658.391,"end":2677.43,"text":"需要地方政府支持興建干儲設施才能將反應爐用過燃料移出妥善存放處理那最後來說明結語目前歐美國家雖已有新型核能基礎相關的設計但都尚無建造及運轉時機故設計安全性以及核配料是否能減量"},{"start":2678.431,"end":2690.11,"text":"難有待時機的一個佐證國際間越加強先進核能技術交流發展經濟部將持續密切掌握國際的發展動向以上報告 敬請各位委員來指導謝謝"},{"start":2693.888,"end":2700.49,"text":"好,我們謝謝林次長的口頭報告我們現在要進行詢答每位訴詢委員質詢時間是6分鐘必要時候延長2分鐘列席委員質詢的時間為4分鐘那發言登記截取的時間是上午10點30分委員如果有臨時提案的話請於上午10點30分前提出並在本委員會的范雲委員質詢後就立即來進行處理處理提案的時候若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場我們原力不予處理"},{"start":2723.135,"end":2740.996,"text":"那我們首先請發言登記第一位的紅孟楷委員質詢好主席謝謝麻煩請陳主委跟林次長好請主委跟次長謝謝好主委"},{"start":2745.902,"end":2753.716,"text":"所以先跟你請教很多媒體朋友都關注到賴清德總統的就職演說沒有再提起非核家園"},{"start":2754.967,"end":2783.58,"text":"再加上國發會新任的主委也講說對核能的看法都是與核碩董事長同董事長還有我們新任經濟部郭部長都理性的看待這件事情因為產業來說電夠不夠低碳電夠不夠以及淨零是關鍵的因素未來五年內我想台灣不管是半導體的擴廠AI人工智慧跟高階運算都是新興科技發展所以現在"},{"start":2784.66,"end":2801.955,"text":"也需要評估中長期的一個用電成長那如果說真的有可能往產業規劃中長期的電力成長的話是不是代表現在政府重啓核能已經確定一旦重啓核能的話核安會應不應該要提高成績您怎麼看"},{"start":2804.036,"end":2808.479,"text":"我先請教一下如果說現階段來講到今年7月我們核三廠一號機也會"},{"start":2832.062,"end":2832.282,"text":"是不是?"},{"start":2861.609,"end":2870.604,"text":"是的 但我的理解我們會有新的機組上來 這個可能台電公司什麼樣的機組 來 次長馬上主委就推給經濟部了"},{"start":2873.362,"end":2901.547,"text":"我們今年7月就會有新的機組了我想這個您剛剛提到一個用電需求規劃我們每年都在做而且就滾動在修正所以您委員所提到的部分核能三廠的一號機如果在今年的7月27日這個停止運轉我們事實上已經規劃好相關的一個這個相關的電來補進來那這個部分我跟您做報告火力發電包括我們的不是只有火力包括我們的再生能源那這個部分當然就是大潭的7號機跟9號機"},{"start":2902.807,"end":2921.281,"text":"我們現在再生能源對那另外一個部分就是太陽能跟那個離岸發電太陽能跟離岸發電但是發電的這個價格跟核電差多少當然我們現在的那個這個核能的價格跟太陽能跟離岸風力有一段的一個差差四倍啊"},{"start":2923.345,"end":2939.466,"text":"剛剛本席看了一下台電的官網平均太陽能發電你有90%90%都是跟民間購電你的購電成本是一度電平均來講我沒有高估你們自己的報告你們購電成本一度電是4塊5"},{"start":2940.968,"end":2964.536,"text":"核電的發電成本是1塊1到1塊5之間換言之如果說你今年7月即便你剛剛講是說要用再生能源來補足電補足這個3.1%的缺口你也要以高達4倍的價格的成本的代價來去因應不是嗎那再來現在新任的郭部長他有講到是說寬估未來中長期的用電成長"},{"start":2965.56,"end":2987.046,"text":"代表我覺得郭部長也算是一個很務實跟產業的人所以他也講了未來3年到5年內台灣在AI高科技運算的這一個階段跟競爭我們一定勢必要跑在前面要站在領先群 對不對所以我們台灣未來3到5年內的用電成長我們的需求有多大"},{"start":2988.444,"end":3011.672,"text":"我跟那個委員報告事實上我剛剛提到說我們每年都在做這個用電的需求的評估那您剛剛提到我們郭部長也提到說產業在未來的AI需求事實上這幾年我們已經有把這個半導體跟AI需求的用電的需求加入到我們的用電的評估裡面那當然這個部分確實它的一個成長我們有看到我們成長需要多少的電力"},{"start":3012.852,"end":3037.82,"text":"有媒體講是要三成對有沒有需要再比現在更多三成以上的電力沒有那麼高我想沒有那麼高的部分我想這個部分如果每年用平均的話大概頂多是大概2.7%增加可能到3%左右這樣子每年2.7到3平均每年平均我們原先一估的部分大概是2.7如果把這個AI跟這個半導體加進去我們現在已經在做精算不過初步的部分應該會大到"},{"start":3039.957,"end":3040.679,"text":"平均每年還要增加"},{"start":3046.305,"end":3049.186,"text":"6.2%的核電也要shut down"},{"start":3074.818,"end":3101.145,"text":"然後我們目前火力發電是火力全開了你的燃煤燃氣已經高達火力發電高達八成了你的再生能源又沒有辦法達到那兩成那台灣的電到底何去何從我們要繼續開火力發電你剛剛自己講了我沒有高估你剛剛的話兩分鐘前一年3%以上五年就至少20%"},{"start":3106.478,"end":3130.45,"text":"臺灣未來十年就是會有三成的電力成長那你又不要用核電你的再生能源有辦法在未來十年內可以成長三成嗎你的火力發電現在沒有要在任何一個地方除非你告訴我你未來十年內有選擇哪一個地方再蓋火力電廠但是即便是要選擇蓋火力電廠一座電廠蓋好至少從"},{"start":3131.741,"end":3160.281,"text":"完全都不講說可行進品或還品一個電廠除了要開工到完工6年的時間所以你現在怎麼面對你的能源缺口委員講的都是相當的務實的一個這個說明我們也是依據這個部分在做相關的一個規劃事實上這些電力的需求做規模之後我們規劃就如剛剛您所說的事實上我們從比較潔淨的天然氣跟再生能源的部分"},{"start":3160.641,"end":3179.946,"text":"做最大的一個這個增加的一個這個設置那這個每一年的那個這個相關的再生能源跟這個火力發電的燃氣我們都有比較直接請教啊因為看起來賴總統也沒有提說非核家園嗎過去2016 2020蔡英文總統是把非核家園都當做神主牌賴清德總統沒有提啊"},{"start":3181.066,"end":3208.477,"text":"經濟部會不會主動提核電延役不管是核二廠延役或者是核三廠一號機在7月以前要延役有沒有這個規劃我跟委員報告事實上這些事情必須有很重要的很重要的三個條件第一個條件就是法規的規範法規規範現在我們必須依照法規規範去做處理目前法規規範就是已經都過了延役的一個這樣的一個期間而且我們還是要依據法規規範來處理另外一個會不會主動提修法"},{"start":3209.788,"end":3210.269,"text":"會否主動請現在執政黨的委員來提修法?"},{"start":3225.691,"end":3242.32,"text":"我們不理解過去怎麼處理就怎麼處理尤其是我們看到不管是新北市政府在本席所屬的核一廠在近期內這個月也會提出核一廠的室外乾式儲存的水保證照因此相關的動工興建等等應該時程都會掌握嗎?"},{"start":3247.618,"end":3262.704,"text":"所以本席現在在提到的是說這個是一個負責任的態度現在主事機關以及我們的政府是經濟部你們這邊要去做處理不是什麼責任都是推給立法院來 諸位我在請教喔也一樣"},{"start":3268.564,"end":3284.787,"text":"面對外界越來越多的這個重啟核電的呼籲啊我想和安會有沒有做過砂盤推演因為剛有提到不管是法規的問題不管是相關的部分但如果說現在是政府政策看到我們台灣有能源缺口確實有要重啟"},{"start":3285.948,"end":3303.249,"text":"我當然本席第一安全一定最重要第二一定是要讓大家能夠社會共識但是如果說現在政府的政策就是想要往這邊推你不能說只是丟給說立法院說啊立法院要修法那如果說立法院修法的話也應該要由主事者這邊來負起責任啊"},{"start":3304.438,"end":3332.28,"text":"有沒有做過沙盤推演那個我跟委員報告核安會我剛才在PowerPoint裡面講得很清楚他跟美國的核管會NRC跟日本的原子力規制委員會NRA是一模一樣的他就是負責獨立審查安全的管制機關所以他不負責能源的政策所以你的意思假設本席現在聽得出來你的意思就是說只要"},{"start":3333.041,"end":3354.796,"text":"不管是台電不管是經濟部政府沒有提出研議的需求我們這邊都不會再去評估或是審查到底現在夠不夠安全經濟部或是相關的政府單位也會詢問核安會的意見到底現在這些不管是核二廠核三廠的研議有沒有安全的部分嗎"},{"start":3355.626,"end":3379.98,"text":"安全要由台電來先評估我們如果有拿到資料我們才可以去做所以你們只做審查審查評估我們還要維持所有的問題那本席就請教最近有看到核電廠的審查報告2011年當時的一個福島電廠之後不就有做趁災報告嗎那到現在媒體5月12號的新聞報導核安會還在等台電的審查報告"},{"start":3384.417,"end":3385.491,"text":"十多年過去了"},{"start":3386.428,"end":3387.469,"text":"核能會為什麼還在等報告?"},{"start":3416.628,"end":3432.719,"text":"所以這個是一個非常長的process那麼最近他們審完那麼台電這邊有一些報告那目前在做國外的委員的審查那麼所以通常這報告要多久時間這個可能台電應該是也很快"},{"start":3434.386,"end":3455.842,"text":"來你剛剛主委你講說2013我就以最寬估啊2011發生福島核災之後你們就開始要求了就2013 14要求他做這個審查報告到現在是2024欸10年欸10年改朝換代多少了總統都從馬英九變蔡英文變賴清德了結果審查報告還沒拿到還沒出來"},{"start":3458.664,"end":3472.098,"text":"報告委員大概因為那整個過程要非常冗長沒有問題你用冗長都沒有問題我只問這個報告合理來講 核安會你是監督機關合理來講這報告要多久出來合理來講 國際上合理來講一個報告多久出來"},{"start":3480.353,"end":3496.322,"text":"這個報告基本上就是要這麼長這麼長是多長?10年?報告目前來講因為它有分三個階段那完整的報告目前來看大概只有美國跟台灣有在做"},{"start":3497.142,"end":3510.462,"text":"那其中呢?台灣是從2015開始做2015到現在也10年了嘛目前來講我們已經到第三階段最後一階段目前在做所謂國際同業的這個審查的這個階段好所以這個報告什麼時候會出來?"},{"start":3512.832,"end":3540.501,"text":"因為這個報告裡面有包含防災防震以及相關核能安全的部分嘛這報告什麼時候會出來?台電的完整的報告呢大概目前已經完成了現在就在等國際的這個同業的這個審查我們預估大概應該在今年核三在今年年底那核二應該在明年的明年初大概可以出來今年年底明年初所以到時候這個報告也可以完整的讓國人知道嗎?還要經過匯率審查"},{"start":3542.133,"end":3542.473,"text":"完全沒有問題好"},{"start":3564.478,"end":3587.251,"text":"謝謝主委主委本席會等著看我們的報告那也請加速最重要是以專業來考量不要有任何政治立場好不好謝謝謝謝洪孟凱委員主委請回座還有官員請回座好那好的好那接著繼續進行質詢請柯志恩抓委柯志恩委員質詢"},{"start":3592.533,"end":3618.713,"text":"謝謝主席,我們先請經濟部的林次長請經濟部林次長市長好,我們現在目前知道核一核二都已經除役了,或是在除役當中那我們今年7月核三也會至停機那我們的興達跟我們的這個麥寮的電廠共四部機組我們也不再發電那剛好都是我們夏季的這個高峰用電量你認為我們的供電會不會有危機"},{"start":3619.674,"end":3637.948,"text":"我想我們已經準備好相關的這個廚藝的機組之後新的機組上來我想這個部分我剛剛已經講過我們根據我們的用電的需求已經做好最好的準備的一個供給能量的準備但是我們還是一一來檢視是不是真的做好因為你們現在新增的發電機組都是燃氣的機組嘛"},{"start":3638.769,"end":3640.85,"text":"您所需要的天然氣在第三接收站明年6月完工之前請問這邊要從哪裡取得"},{"start":3655.954,"end":3666.063,"text":"目前有兩座天然氣的儲存槽一個是在台中另外一個是在高雄但是我知道你會這樣的回應因為你不要說因為原來的舊機組目前為止也是沒有天然氣開供發電你的問題還是一樣的存在因為我們要大量使用2025年我們要大量的使用天然氣但是我們現在所能夠儲能的空間其實都已經佔滿了所以你即使使用這個舊的機組你還是沒有氣可以來做一個這樣的一個處理"},{"start":3681.135,"end":3684.356,"text":"所以好,我們就來看看這是我們大家產業界所提出的一個非常大的問題那接下來就是有的非常多的,你看你們興達一號機跟大潭九號機它可以在六月準時上線嗎?還有你這個七號機有沒有辦法在八月準時上線?目前來說"},{"start":3711.863,"end":3729.753,"text":"這個部分就是在積極的進行當中有沒有辦法保證我想我們會按照我們所規劃的目標來努力達成其實這個就是一個非常重要的我告訴你大家都在挫雷彈啊真的是等一下我還會再就用電的這個部分跟次長請教我們先來關心今天另外一個很大的一個重點因為賴總統他在就職演說喊出的205這個2050年的當中呢他要做個淨零排碳"},{"start":3736.357,"end":3745.049,"text":"那我們你看看核三廠的一號機七月已經停機二號機五年所以失去核三的無碳電力我們這個排碳可以降低570萬噸沒錯吧幾乎佔柴電的排碳的百分之六沒錯啊這個部分佔柴電這是好事啊但是"},{"start":3753.622,"end":3757.203,"text":"市長,去年我國電力排檔的係數降到0.494但是呢根據我們電業法你到20250的時候呢我們的排檔係數應該是0.424我們還差0.07我們還差0.07我們好像看起來這個小數點很小但是0.07以我們目前的排檔來說的話需要20年時間才有辦法達到需要20年才有辦法達到所以2050的經營排檔的政見會不會有機會實現"},{"start":3780.769,"end":3800.874,"text":"市長你的評估我的評估是會實現的為什麼這樣講呢第一個部分剛剛委員問到核三廠如果停機下來的時候它的那個排蛋數減少當然我跟你報告我們的再生能源去年是花了267億度那我們今年會花到413億度左右"},{"start":3801.434,"end":3813.082,"text":"這都增加了將近一百多億你一直在強調再生能源再生能源當然是我們未來的方向因為再生能源所產生的電費剛剛洪孟凱委員已經提到的我就不再贅述我只能要提醒學者來告訴我們說歐盟電力的排碳係數是0.24那台灣是人家的一倍以上連美國用電量這麼高也是0.4那我比較關切的就是我們未來歐盟的碳邊境稅的課徵CBM出國業者使用的電力排碳係數會被納入"},{"start":3828.653,"end":3834.316,"text":"這是一個很嚴重的問題歐盟的定價是每噸100塊美金欸這影響是非常大的那你看核商場除役之後呢這到底會不會影響我們台灣的這個進出口我必須要提出來喔我們目前汪格雄這個總排碳量我們高雄是佔20%喔"},{"start":3845.643,"end":3850.768,"text":"我們是列為高碳牌的企業高達90%我們的石化我們的鋼鐵然後我們台灣出口歐盟最大宗就是鋼鐵業所以鋼鐵業可以受到多好大的影響光是我們這個歐盟的要做這個CBAM的這樣子的一個策略來說你怎麼來面對這樣的問題"},{"start":3863.559,"end":3872.149,"text":"我想大家對西北的部分政府以及民間單位都積極的在進行中那我們依照歐盟的部分在去年你覺得我們的產業界會因為要派出這個碳碳稅的問題的話克制的部分我們預估要多付多少錢"},{"start":3878.456,"end":3896.391,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":3896.698,"end":3901.164,"text":"所以說呢你們如果用現有的這個能源的政策的話其實對產業界會造成非常多的影響所以當你們的部長還有包括我們這個國發會他們都是來自這個產業就很清楚你現有的能源的政策是沒有辦法"},{"start":3912.077,"end":3927.404,"text":"能夠符合你2050年淨零排炭的部分嗎?我們來看一下嘛為什麼你們這麼多你賴清德總統講的是第一次能源轉型我不曉得要轉到什麼部分還要強調說我們這第二次我不曉得你今天次長能源的結果是什麼第一次能源轉型這是賴總統講的"},{"start":3930.069,"end":3956.479,"text":"我想我們的能源轉型持續在進行中希望我們是說要有可能更多的一個這個積極的思維來進行能源轉型沒有那你第二次能源轉型指的又是什麼這是賴總統提到的啦他的成效是什麼第二次能源轉型是什麼你會把核能當作是第二次能源轉型的一個主要的一個方向嗎我想我們提到的您剛剛提到的部分就是說總統所提到第二次能源轉型他"},{"start":3957.139,"end":3985.315,"text":"有更進一步的論述是提到說要多元的綠能的一個開發另外一個部分要穩定供電這個部分是我們在進行能源轉向的過程當中如果說我們的能源政策的話不會新商案之間包括國發會還有包括我們的你們的部長都有特別提到你看你在2020年的時候當然他把他一直講說跟進能源後來馬上就說非核家園目標不變然後你們環境部長也馬上說啊也沒有說我就是遵守這個非核的家園但是你會看到我們"},{"start":3986.195,"end":4001.644,"text":"本委員會非常多委員所提出的法案可能都會打點這個環境部裏面所提到的環境基本法那你看看這就是我們目前造成一個能源很大的一個問題更不要說我們現在AI我剛剛聽了部長提到說AI未來可用的部分因為我們的王仁勳提到可能會在台南或高雄選擇一個地方來變成AI的科技產業它會是我們台灣第二個的庫國神山非常的歡迎但是AI所用的耗電量"},{"start":4015.251,"end":4020.414,"text":"高盛評估我覺得次長你有點低估可用的發電量我是根據高盛來評估啊他說AI的供應量在2023到2030年成長160%而且2030年降臨美國總體的電力是8%這是很可怕的而且美國的這個美林的調查報告也說AI的需求量到2023到2028年復合成長率是25到33今天的龍頭的ARM更警告"},{"start":4043.985,"end":4045.866,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒事實上經濟部是隨時在把所需要的用電準備好我們時時在做這個工作"},{"start":4072.435,"end":4100.443,"text":"好了我只能說了你隨時在準備我也不知道是怎麼樣我只問一個啦美國就是因為要面臨這樣的問題所以他把核電作為應對AI高核能的非常重要的一項的一個部分嘛光是過去呢美國就對這個核融核的這個投資已經超過59億美金喔那我們跟他們來比起來我們說實在這一方面真的是比較是落後蠻多的啦那說到非核教育的部分有沒有相關的規劃有沒有跟其他的國家的作戰合作其實你必須要面對的問題啊"},{"start":4102.366,"end":4108.531,"text":"中研院的廖院長他也是在掌握這個部分可是他覺得這個過程來說我們都還是在某一樣的階段中研院抱歉我不太清楚但"},{"start":4119.378,"end":4139.065,"text":"你們跟誰合作?你們有在做這個核融合技術的研發嗎?我們目前為止我們投資多少錢在這裡?我們投資多少錢在這裡?我們投資的錢跟其他美國的這個先進科技我們還有一段,然後我們還要作為AI,我們還要做半導體,這些都是非常耗電,耗水,耗能源的這個部分,我們到底目前投資了多少錢在這個地方?"},{"start":4140.903,"end":4166.539,"text":"經濟部有做這樣的一個評估嗎?我們未來還要花多少錢在這個地方?我們經濟部會隨時的關注掌握那我跟委員報告我剛剛聽那個我們核安會主委的報告裡面那有相關的技術的一個這個掌握你們隨時掌握但是我們需要清楚的數據因為你投資多少錢能夠多少的產能這才是一個數字數字才讓我們有一個評估的部分我期望經濟部下一次我們有機會在這個地方碰面的時候請你提供給我經費透過經費跟國外的"},{"start":4169.121,"end":4169.882,"text":"好 謝謝我們接下來請葛如君委員"},{"start":4205.447,"end":4232.287,"text":"謝謝主席有請核安會陳東陽主委跟經濟部的林全能次長備詢好主委跟次長謝謝各位委員早主委早也恭喜您順利留任那林次長好今天很難得經濟部來到教育委員會那您今天站在這裡跟我們的這個核安會的這個主委我相信您應該是認同核能安全的啦那經濟部的書面報告呢清楚的呈現"},{"start":4233.248,"end":4250.917,"text":"接下來的國際能源署的報告裡面有說全球核能的發電占比會先上升再下降2030可能從8%到10%到2050年以後才會再次下降這是全球的趨勢台灣可能沒有辦法獨善其身剛剛提到了這個洪孟凱委員提到"},{"start":4251.637,"end":4272.692,"text":"我們一年很可能會增加3%但接下來關機又少3%所以我想這真的是一個沒有辦法忽視的問題今天是賴政府上台的第10天能源政策關乎我們的每一天的生活但是執政黨的政府對於核能的態度我自己覺得有點友達以上戀人未滿又想報又想不報又想簽又想不簽猶豫不決兩者關係非常曖昧賴總統最屬意的過去曾經討論過的行政院長人選"},{"start":4281.118,"end":4289.132,"text":"童子賢先生就曾經說:「地球暖化才是人類公敵,何能不是?」次長、主委,你們兩位認同這個說法嗎?"},{"start":4294.656,"end":4296.217,"text":"接下來我們還提到這個更多的這種小型核電創新的核電"},{"start":4321.651,"end":4343.752,"text":"還不只是童先生 卓院長也說政府會打造更穩定的經濟發展環境繼續發展綠能但追求非核家園是永不可放棄的目標有人說可以考慮核電有人接著又說一定要非核家園我想請教一下次長我們現在到底是要先追求穩定經濟發展還是先追求非核家園先哪一個"},{"start":4346.482,"end":4370.468,"text":"我想站在經濟部的很重要的任務是要追求我們的經濟的穩定發展先追求穩定發展所以非核家園可能可以放在旁邊了嗎?不是這樣我想經濟部本身考量的那個面向很多好就是是這樣也是那樣啦沒有關係啦我們再來看下一張這個經濟部的部長郭志輝部長上任前就說核能是乾淨的能源上任以後會盡速盤點政策解決問題我們又要昏啦"},{"start":4372.509,"end":4396.062,"text":"又要來擁抱核能那同時呢身兼政委的國科委吳承文主委上週是在這個地方備詢的時候他說他沒有反核神主牌未來如果發展出潔淨安全的核能在這個前提下他認同核能這是原話表達他表達自己立場我再次請問主委跟次長吳主委沒有反核神主牌你們兩位有沒有反核神主牌"},{"start":4397.944,"end":4397.964,"text":"市長"},{"start":4412.022,"end":4424.173,"text":"我們是執行機關,執行機關就依照相關的規定去執行這樣子沒有關係,我們再來看民進黨大佬許信良先生也說不要讓20世紀的民進黨思維來約束21世紀的民進黨政府應該使用核電這4年不改將來也會改因為減碳是世界性的運動"},{"start":4432.42,"end":4452.487,"text":"國發會主委、副主委也說核能政策要尋求全民共識環境部長彭啟明說國際沒有說一定要或一定不要建議盡快凝聚共識但事實上2018年以核養綠的公投結果就已經是一種全民共識了我們到底還要多少的共識你們才願意放下這個神主牌"},{"start":4453.347,"end":4475.116,"text":"說我們就是要演繹我們需要來友善面對核能來承認它是我們接下來必須要存在的一種非常有效的方法同時在你們還不願意承認不願意面對這個核能的時候我們每天每分每秒大家都在吸入大量的空污同時前董事長也提醒煤炭發電現在佔了30幾%"},{"start":4477.037,"end":4494.088,"text":"排放的菸恐怕帶來數千萬人嚴重的肺病或肺癌致死因為是慢性的但是同樣在這個時間點上週四的行政院會和記者會行政院發言人又說再次強調政府不會放棄追求非核家園我們又看到這個東西又被推出去了"},{"start":4495.77,"end":4509.028,"text":"今天我們拿到了這個施政報告這個禮拜五卓榮泰院長要來的施政報告我們翻開一看很抱歉又沒有非核家園了能源政策資質未提非核家園省主牌看起來好像又要轉彎了"},{"start":4511.236,"end":4526.874,"text":"結果呢我們真的是想要來講你們接下來又要來講說綠能啊綠能啊怎麼樣綠能不是不好但是我們也要必須要講綠能本身不要認為它是無害的我們可能是先享受後付款啊次長你認同這個說法嗎你覺得我們這個之後要付款我們存好了嗎"},{"start":4531.946,"end":4553.334,"text":"我想台灣是一個多元的社會每一位都有他不同的看法跟意見那能源的政策發展我們也看到這樣的一個環境就是說各項能源都有不同的一個優劣點我想這個部分是大家都是知道的但是快要沒有電就是事實好不好我想我們在這種薛丁格的狀態不能存在太久"},{"start":4554.954,"end":4583.082,"text":"民進黨政府從蔡英文總統到賴清澤總統神主牌是一種傳承不敢隨便放下有需要的時候就拿起來沒有需要的時候就叫別人說你來碰觸一下我大膽預設接下來的劇情走向民進黨迫於在野黨的壓力為了滿足產業用電的需求無奈情勢只好跟非核家園神主牌還有擁護者們說抱歉民進黨真的不需要這樣一下要一下不要一下是綠一下不綠一下是永和一下是非核想要就大聲說出來"},{"start":4584.102,"end":4602.759,"text":"你如果真的有神主牌你要握著你就握好你不要又拿出來說拜託你把它拿走所以我現在是想要做這件事我幫你們做了一個神主牌神主牌現在給你們一個機會神主牌在這裡你們有沒有人要願意接過去這個神主牌的可不可以願意請舉手我可以給你3秒鐘"},{"start":4610.825,"end":4634.037,"text":"這就是我們的態度到底是要還是不要有人說一定要反核一定要非核然後一下又說一定要綠能我們台灣就快要已經沒有電了核能的6%接下來要剩下3%然後呢一年又有增長率的AI又要增加用6%但是呢我們說安不安全說我現在就直接把它丟到旁邊了我幫你們丟啦齁"},{"start":4635.658,"end":4655.694,"text":"我想本席認為民進黨政府最終一定會走上核電廠延役的這條路我再次問你們同不同意我們已經通過了國會改革武法我們接下來真的是你們如果有開過會已經要丟掉神主牌了我們已經要友善面對核電了其他部會首長都已經講了"},{"start":4657.31,"end":4677.844,"text":"市長,您願不願意承認,我們其實就是要往核電延役這條路了,願不願意承認,雖然我們總統還沒公告啦,還有什麼復議啦,但是我們先練習一下好不好?一個誠懇的...我剛剛已經說明很清楚了,我們經濟部是執行單位,相關的規定就是我們依據的一個很重要的...那部長沒有放棄喔?他擁抱喔?那您會跟隨嗎?他擁抱您跟隨嗎?"},{"start":4680.586,"end":4695.678,"text":"我想我不是我們部長本人基本上委員也不是部長本人那我們經濟部一個很重要的一個這個處理的一致的處理的好打斷您啦就現在在這一刻你們有立場嗎那核安會主委總有立場了吧"},{"start":4697.56,"end":4717.913,"text":"獨立安全管制機關不應該有立場不應該有立場嗎我們來念一下你們的官方網站上面的16個字核安福安核安民眾心安日新又新專業創新你們應該要告訴我們核能是安全的現在就需要這樣的東西你應該要來告訴我們"},{"start":4719.014,"end":4731.906,"text":"核安會要來負責讓核能安全結果你剛剛的報告有這麼多人要研議結果你說的是什麼呢核安會尊重大院委員提案核能要能夠確保核安要能夠確保核安要能夠確保是你的責任你怎麼會來跟這些提案的委員講說你要核安要能夠確保呢"},{"start":4740.031,"end":4744.055,"text":"好沒有關係我想接下來我們今天有了新的國會新的氣象我也希望未來我們有更良善的交流我們未來有什麼樣的政策我們就大膽的說出來大家一起來準備今天國安會的報告裡面有提到國際上近期重要的核能會議有結論"},{"start":4758.251,"end":4759.351,"text":"在COP28期間美國與21個國家共同發起2050年前致力將核電裝置的容量提升為3倍的聯合倡議這裡面有很多的創新的核電技術2024年3月的核能高峰會"},{"start":4776.519,"end":4794.405,"text":"宣誓指示利用核能協助實現全球碳中和的目標很多的領袖也共同發表聲明部署先進的反應器確保最高程度的安全和保障多位與會領導人表明要讓現有核反應器延長運轉這是你們今天的核安會報告結果我們在這裡問"},{"start":4798.055,"end":4811.916,"text":"也不接神主牌也不說我們接下來核電要不要延役在這邊就像一個薛丁格的貓盒子就是死不打開到底活到底死到底安全到底不安全到底要核電不要核電都不願意講"},{"start":4813.444,"end":4827.698,"text":"沒有關係我們還有時間但是這個時間真的滴滴答答的在倒數我想接下來不管你們是要除役還是運轉還是延役我也期待你們像報告裡面所講的為民眾的安全把關"},{"start":4829.181,"end":4843.793,"text":"我做好了投影片我今天本來是希望可以打開這個薛丁格的盒子告訴我們到底你們是站在什麼樣的態度你們是同意全民的共識以核養綠嗎?你也是追求經濟發展嗎?神主牌要退場嗎?叫我把它丟掉嗎?核電廠要延役嗎?剛剛還是很感謝次長您有說追求經濟發展優先我覺得這個很好"},{"start":4853.661,"end":4868.7,"text":"至少這個盒子開了一滴滴然後呢我剛剛想說你們就大膽的說我就是要飛核家園我持續下去我一點點都不退縮抱歉你們也不願意走這個路線所以我已經幫你們做好了今天的結論以上皆非啦"},{"start":4869.361,"end":4872.563,"text":"您剛所提到的我還要再去買更多的電我們的經費在哪裡我要再去種更多的綠電那我們的做法是什麼我們要有更多的火力發電廠我們要蓋在哪裡"},{"start":4890.436,"end":4910.076,"text":"重整我們剛才的討論我想經濟部安和安會今天都沒有辦法很肯定的回答這些問題我投影片直接就做好了時空旅人本來應該有的薛丁格的主委今天可能再加上薛丁格次長本席還是呼籲民進黨政府執政黨要誠實面對整個部會要一致的做法跟說法"},{"start":4910.436,"end":4931.713,"text":"最後引述童子賢董事長所說的電力及國力穩定供電供電品質淨零碳排這幾個條件加總起來就是我們的國力請民進黨政府執政黨真實面對民眾與產業的需求真實面對自己的內心明知道言以勢在必行就勇敢說出來勇敢把法案提出來謝謝好謝謝兩位謝謝葛如君委員接下來我們請岳元之委員"},{"start":4951.67,"end":4957.376,"text":"麻煩請那個核安會主委還有我們經濟部次長還有主委還有次長謝謝主委好 次長好"},{"start":4962.638,"end":4982.81,"text":"我今天早上看報紙就是那個國安會主委劉靜卿他說他不排斥使用核能那他講一個非常關鍵的東西他說只要能夠把核廢料做良好的儲存他就不排斥核能所以換句話說國安會主委的認定裡面他認為核安不是太大的問題啦否則他就會把核安這個條件把它加進去嘛"},{"start":4983.65,"end":4984.511,"text":"我再一次秀這個表格"},{"start":5010.63,"end":5031.801,"text":"這是我們核安會的一個表格2022的修訂版它有針對我們最終核廢料的處置場所有一些計劃比如說在2017年必須要先提出候選場址的建議調查區域先請教一下2017年提出的候選場址的建議調查區域是哪裡"},{"start":5034.377,"end":5036.379,"text":"主要是高階核廢料用過核燃料這一塊的最終處置的部分"},{"start":5054.313,"end":5080.51,"text":"因為必須 必須要整個台灣去做所謂的地質調查跟地質專探可是因為他沒有法源目前來講沒有法源依據所以台電公司其實在做任何的地質調查跟地質的專探呢其實上都會受到民間的 這個問題我都可以回答好不好是所以目前 知道我的問題是什麼嗎我知道所以目前來講是沒有調查是吧對就是因為沒有法源的依據 那這個計畫是寫好玩的喔嗯?"},{"start":5083.376,"end":5099.333,"text":"那你2017年說要提出候選場址的建議調查區域2017離現在都已經7年了對2017有2017有提出來但是2017你必須要做整個地質的專談地質的調查那這一塊因為在那我先問你2017你提出來的是哪裡嗎"},{"start":5102.948,"end":5125.218,"text":"有,我們有,當時有嘗試的要去做,比如說像金門啊,或者花蓮金門,花蓮,就是本來有考慮要把核廢料放在金門跟花蓮是不是?沒有,不是這樣,就是說先做初步的所謂的地質調查嘛,對嘛,那你先選你覺得有可能放地方才會去調查,不然你調查幹嘛?那現在經過七年,那有什麼進展嗎?"},{"start":5128.191,"end":5144.496,"text":"目前來講我們大概因為在整個的組織本來這個立法的部分是在核安會就是以前的原能會但是原能會後來改制以後變核安會以後所以目前這個所謂立法的已經歸到經濟部這邊來所以目前來講"},{"start":5145.436,"end":5166.806,"text":"不好意思 我時間很有限 你可不可以針對我 問題那麼簡單所以因為在立法 因為沒有法源依據 所以我們目前來講所以沒有調查嘛 現在是這個意思是不是目前來講 就沒有做事嘛 好啦 那請教 那所以後面那個計畫全部pending嗎不是 所以我們先技術工程 就是說我們先跟科技合作好 沒關係 您是副總嘛對不對 是那請教一下 2025年根據你這個計畫 2025年要完成組織廠概念設計 那現在進行怎麼樣"},{"start":5173.427,"end":5195.285,"text":"你有哪些概念設計在進行目前的部分我們大概就參與整個國際的合作,包括分欄的因為分欄他大概今年來講他的最終處置的部分會做私運船計劃所以我們大概今年的下半年會參與他的一個私運船計劃會參與分欄的私運計劃對好那請教一下2025年你有可能會完成概念想設計嗎"},{"start":5196.89,"end":5219.381,"text":"目前我們會在努力但是最基礎還是要有一個法院的意見2026年有沒有可能會完成候選長職的特性調查與評估這個我們會努力2017年你都說你Pending的你2026年可以完成喔不要來這邊呼嚨啦我都是以臣代人啦但是大家講話不要把人當笨蛋好不好2017年你就已經講了你就說你當時就遇到困難結果你2026年跟我說你會努力做不做得到啦"},{"start":5229.019,"end":5241.091,"text":"我今天劉靜卿國發會主委講的喔只要讓核廢料有能夠妥善的儲存他都不排斥用核電結果你們現在負責處理核廢料單位講話一個比一個呼嚨"},{"start":5242.816,"end":5252.519,"text":"什麼時候完成?你跟我講一個時辰。什麼時候完成?參與合作什麼意思?我現在講的是你核廢料什麼時候可以處理嗎?台灣的核廢料候選場址什麼時候完成調查?什麼時候提出場址?什麼時候選出永久的核廢料的儲存場?什麼時候?"},{"start":5266.995,"end":5290.355,"text":"因為所有的最終處置都是一個零幣設施什麼時候嘛 所以一輩子做不到是不是那你今天劉靜卿國發會主委講的這個話 白講了嘛因為他認為說只要處理好核廢料 核能不排斥結果我們處理核廢料單位台電跟核安會這種態度說因為有零幣設施 然後因為法規所以我不去進行處理 我就擺爛"},{"start":5291.656,"end":5305.709,"text":"所以我們有提出所謂的你們現在你們台電都沒有感覺到方向轉了以前在蔡英文政府時代只要講到核每一個人下了鑰匙不敢講結果現在民進黨的政務官一個一個出來表態經濟部長出來表態"},{"start":5309.091,"end":5331.296,"text":"國八會主委出來表態還有你們賴總統好朋友童子賢出來表態大家都認為說可以使用核電結果要使用核電必須要排除的問題你們一副就是無所謂的樣子然後那現在是在唱雙簧是不是?呃 報委員所以因為最終...不用再報告了啦你又沒辦法解決嘛台電沒辦法次長請問一下現在核備料有辦法處理嗎?"},{"start":5334.98,"end":5353.989,"text":"我現在講的是你們計畫欸我現在不是我自己掰一個時辰說你明天給我處理我是按照你的計畫結果問到2017是這樣回答我問到2025是這樣回答我問到2026是這樣回答我跟委員很坦誠的報告核配料的處理現在是一個大問題那你有沒有去跟劉靜清講"},{"start":5355.492,"end":5367.356,"text":"我想那個劉委員他的一個發言我不太清楚劉主委來把他叫小了啦劉主委的發言我不太清楚但是我很坦誠的跟委員報告您剛剛問到的問題我們核廢料處理是個大問題大問題我就不問了啦我就是要你講出這個實話啦那請問一下那個台電我想問一下我們板橋上個月下大雨就停電怎麼回事"},{"start":5383.11,"end":5392.547,"text":"這部分大概停電的部分喔大概那個應該不叫停電那個應該叫做異常就是非預期的停電嘛就是家裡沒有電可以用就停電嘛你這個也要在那邊凹喔"},{"start":5394.107,"end":5411.201,"text":"你要不要去問一下小老百姓什麼叫停電就是他的電開關打開沒有電就叫停電我現在問你怎麼回事怎麼造成的我不是說缺電你不用緊張我說怎麼形況造成的那個大概設備的故障為什麼設備的故障所以為什麼我告訴你好不好下大雨雨衝到所謂的那個電掀桿上面的開關就壞掉"},{"start":5420.369,"end":5441.266,"text":"所以在我們五年的一個...所以你們任性電網在哪裡?沒有,所以在我們五年的情況下...副總我跟你講齁,我現在不去跟你變什麼缺電問題啦你現在如果沒有把電網把它弄好,一樣會停電啦台電編了一千億說要做任性電網結果做的結果還是一樣下大雨停電,怎麼樣停電?潰線跳脫停電,小動物停電"},{"start":5443.018,"end":5467.655,"text":"你還讓人家沒有電可以用啊我想問一下到底什麼時候可以要把這個韌性電網做好你們預計還要花多少錢才有辦法把韌性電網做好預計還要花多少錢目前來講我們大概有一個五年的計畫在走大概多少錢逐年編列多少錢逐年編列多少應該差不多一千億到兩億逐年編列一千億不是逐年總共大概要花"},{"start":5470.004,"end":5495.43,"text":"總共花了兩千億就做得好嗎目前來講大概因為你花一千億做不好嘛那你現在又增加一千億所以其實有一項剛才委員有提到就是外在的我們會去做外在你現在連下雨都會停電而且我覺得每次怪小動物我也小動物感到不值啊你不能做一些防弊設施讓小動物不要進來嗎小動物進來我們人類是停電小動物是生命的喪屍啊"},{"start":5496.65,"end":5511.776,"text":"所以我們以來就做包覆這個問題你講多久台電因為你們就補貼太多發電成本嘛所以不願意花錢去做電網嘛然後一直講那個再生能源再生能源過去8年成長多少多少過去8年再生能源成長多少"},{"start":5518.2,"end":5534.104,"text":"我想我們再生能源過去8年成長了數十倍5%啦數十倍那是設置量5%對嘛你設定2025年非核家園再生能源是20%結果你再生能源只有增加5%你還有10%發電的數那我剛剛提到海生的設置容量"},{"start":5540.646,"end":5560.838,"text":"不用,不用跟我講在深圳現在就是成長造成的障礙瓶頸嘛所以才有那麼多人講核電嘛好不好我剛剛講那些問題我不知道為什麼今天來備詢的官員都沒有準備就來就來備詢然後一問三不知時間拖完之後然後就沒事了"},{"start":5562.675,"end":5591.442,"text":"現在,還是要提醒你們啦今天我相信剛剛很多委員都有提到核電的問題現在是所有你們的長官都認為說核電應該要繼續使用所以這個部分你們要認真啦不是說我一問你們那個核電廠的核廢料的廠址就一問三不知不做沒關係啦林併設施然後什麼講一大堆理由這個沒有處理就算你們的長官想要研議核電也都很困難啦好謝謝"},{"start":5592.957,"end":5602.161,"text":"謝謝委員好我們謝謝葉仁志委員接下來我們請謝謝我們現在請陳秀寶委員謝謝主席這邊請何安慰陳主委經濟部林次長以及臺電許副總經理好我們請臺電還有我們經濟部次長還有我們的陳主委謝謝"},{"start":5621.206,"end":5643.827,"text":"委員好早安因為今天時間不多所以請大家一起上來節省時間首先我要先請教我們次長台灣我們受制於是海島型的國家結構所以我們電力必須自給自足那人員專家有提醒就是台灣會有缺電的危機必須儘早做準備那在這邊我想請教次長台灣缺不缺電"},{"start":5644.741,"end":5659.893,"text":"我剛剛提到過我們每年都在做未來5到10年的供電的需求的評估依據這個評估我們把所要供電的這些相關的建設做好所以依據這樣的台電同仁跟我們經濟部同仁的努力我們認為沒有缺電的問題"},{"start":5661.269,"end":5681.399,"text":"雖然你們在做評估有在做努力也有做相關的一些持續的一些建設但是就發生在3個月桃園4月的時候有跳電35次引發民怨那上個禮拜23日呢早上呢臺北士林有1.2萬戶跳電連故宮呢北院都沒電可用讓外國來的遊客都很傻眼那下午換成聖望華跳電26日的時候新竹香山有1300戶大停電"},{"start":5686.662,"end":5711.897,"text":"所以說台電你們這邊雖然當時有說明說是天然災害及人為因素但是一定會被誤解成缺電所以說是相關的設施相當的管理還是人力不足你們到底該努力的地方在哪裡你們自己有釐清嗎我想這個部分確實跳電的狀況出現很多那我們都把問題掌握出來就拿桃園地區的部分來看的話事實上桃園人口成長"},{"start":5713.557,"end":5737.969,"text":"近幾年平均大概11%左右那我們的電力網的一個成長只成長4%這樣的差距就讓整個供電的狀況那所以就是你們設施的提升不足啊是那另外一個部分就是說我們也加速在把設施能夠提升出來所以才有加強電力網的這樣的一個計畫來加速相關的一個推動工作市長 既然我們覺得不缺電所以我們就要確保供電無虞不跳電"},{"start":5738.809,"end":5762.263,"text":"這是給民眾的承諾這是我們要做到沒錯台灣在世界產業的供應鏈上是非常重要的角色所以企業跟民眾都需要穩定的供電那所以說我這邊要要求你們要盡快盡速努力的去發展多元的綠能智慧電網才能夠強化我們電力系統的韌性那我們蔡英文總統在今年卸任前的最後一次元旦記者會有強調非核家園不能走回頭路"},{"start":5765.205,"end":5769.168,"text":"台灣的社會不應該持續在核電的爭議上來打轉而是應該在非核的選項中大步前進那環境基本法的第23條有規定政府應訂定計劃逐步達成非核家園的目標那雖然目前核能佔比已經降到全國的發電量是6.3%"},{"start":5785.299,"end":5801.011,"text":"非核家園政策不變之下那核三廠一號機在今年七月會停止運轉二號機在明年五月也會停止運轉那這樣子造成的這個電力的供應缺口會不會讓全台有停電的這個疑慮呢"},{"start":5801.972,"end":5806.414,"text":"我剛剛講過我們依據這個電力的需求跟電力的供給的情形我們都做好準備了那河山的這個即將的一個7月27號河山廠的一號機的這個停止運轉事實上我們都準備好相關的供應的電力準備所以你們都已經評估過了當一號機它停止運轉之後又有什麼其他的電來補足這個缺口"},{"start":5825.623,"end":5827.164,"text":"雖然我們國內也一直努力的在推動綠電包括像屋頂重電、離岸風電等政策但是其實再生能源占比也增加不到6%"},{"start":5850.259,"end":5860.941,"text":"那經濟部跟台電公司你們一定要去重視這個問題的嚴重性喔在這邊也要請教四屆五屆的環評到現在沒有通過我目前的狀況是怎樣遇到什麼樣的難題我想四屆的部分主要是環評嘛那環評我們繼續努力在做溝通我們會來進行做好更好的溝通讓環評的一個這個後續的進展能夠順利"},{"start":5873.484,"end":5886.067,"text":"所以你只是說會盡量的來溝通努力讓後面的環評能夠順利但是你自己有沒有預定一個怎樣的啟程去完成它這個部分我可不可以請我們台電了這一部分大概就是還是要社會溝通的這一塊還要再努力就是說目前來看大概環評我們一定還你們遇到的瓶頸是什麼"},{"start":5897.841,"end":5920.536,"text":"地方還是在地方上地方上有不同的聲音所以你們還要很大的努力去做溝通跟協調是是這個部分也希望盡快有好消息因為對於我們整個電力怎樣可以供應無虞其實在我們的企業跟民生都非常的重要因為你們的停電跳電可能造成企業的損失那一般的民生一般的店家也可能就有這樣的擔憂的話其實我覺得這個對社會都是一個很不良的現象"},{"start":5925.579,"end":5951.63,"text":"接下來我要請教 核安委這邊報告說核三廠用過燃料池的儲存空間有限僅可公約運轉數年因此不論廚藝或研藝干式儲存設施必須興建才能推動相關的作業我再想問一下我們許副總經理核三廠的干式儲存設施你們現在遇到的困難是什麼"},{"start":5952.588,"end":5965.942,"text":"核電廠的目前來講大概乾儲的部分我們大概就是直接走室內乾儲的部分那現在他大概還可以3到5年的部分還有空間"},{"start":5967.21,"end":5994.198,"text":"那如果我說那個必須乾式儲存設施必須興建啟用才能推動相關作業那所謂的必須興建啟用的在這一塊你們所做的評估你們所做的現在遇到的困難是什麼現在室內乾除的部分的興建沒有困難大概我們預定大概今年準備來所謂的招標今年就可以招標對今年年底"},{"start":5995.748,"end":6019.216,"text":"好那這邊我先請教我們陳主委核安會這邊報告說有關委員女巨的核子反應器設施研議條例草案以及核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案呢核安會會尊重各委員的提案那如果真的法案是有通過了關於核二重啟核三研議我們會有什麼困難嗎"},{"start":6022.209,"end":6035.277,"text":"核安會主要還是一個獨立的安全管制機關那麼我們會從這個安全的部分來著手那麼這個部分那當然核廢料也要同步優先的來處理"},{"start":6036.977,"end":6057.65,"text":"因為其實如何確保核能安全在民眾的期待這一塊民眾是非常非常的擔心因為核二的重啟跟核三的延役主要是因為對民眾來講是安全的考量確定不確定有沒有電可以用當然是非常的重要是攸關民生但是關於生命健康的安全是民眾更重視的"},{"start":6059.071,"end":6062.832,"text":"所以我這邊要想知道說如果萬一委員提的因為你們尊重嘛那萬一委員提的這個案子是有過的那核二重啟核三延役真的會執行嗎真的是核二可以重啟核三就會延役嗎民眾想知道的是這樣子的狀況是不是請我們主委這邊可以說明一下"},{"start":6082.777,"end":6104.436,"text":"這個部分能源政策還是要由經濟部來回答因為他這邊要從需求面政策面來著手我沒有問你政策我現在是問說以您在核安的專業上您的以您的專業的角度來看核二是可以重啟的嗎或是核三就直接是這樣可以研議的嗎他在這個他的執行面上"},{"start":6105.197,"end":6112.908,"text":"是可以這樣子直接就核二重啓或核三延役嗎還是它必須經過怎樣的程序或者說它必須經過怎樣的一個時程"},{"start":6115.216,"end":6135.668,"text":"他必須經過很嚴格的一個安全審查那麼這個部分大概需要一段的很長的時間那麼發動者應該從經營者也就是台電當然前面必須要修法在前面必須能源政策確定那核安會其實是在後段"},{"start":6137.029,"end":6156.091,"text":"主要是著重在這個能源安全核能安全的部分那麼核二廠還有更大的麻煩因為它的乾除設施還沒有興建那麼它現在也這個用過燃料池也滿足剛才我在報告裡面都有說明所以它的困難度更高"},{"start":6157.222,"end":6159.684,"text":"主委在這邊我再跟你強調我今天沒有跟你問政策我也沒有跟你問說我們這個本身你們的立場在哪裡是為民眾來問因為民眾擔心核二重啓或是核三延役到底對民眾的生命健康安全影響有多大"},{"start":6175.558,"end":6179.52,"text":"他們很擔心萬一法案真的過了隨隨便便核二就重啟了核三就說延役就延役了那到底在安全上的評估有沒有經過一個審慎的一個程序是不是這樣子會不會造成大家生命財產健康的這個擔憂這個部分是民眾想要知道的所以我在這邊一直在這個問題上請你要說清楚說明白說說不是核二要重啟就重啟"},{"start":6200.208,"end":6204.771,"text":"也不是核酸說研議就研議他必須經過一個相當嚴謹的一個評估的過程還有相當的一些程序是不是這樣子完全正確對這邊我希望說核安慰要用你們的專業來守護民眾的健康沒有疑慮那經濟部這邊我也希望說你們在穩定供電的這個職責不論你們在設備上在人力上在管理上都要更嚴謹精進這是你們的責任好那我時間到了謝謝"},{"start":6236.111,"end":6236.811,"text":"請林次長跟陳主委我們請主委跟次長"},{"start":6261.069,"end":6282.662,"text":"市長跟昨天早其實我想核安的問題跟核廢料的處置的問題我認為這個事情是不分藍綠的我相信沒有哪一個政黨的委員會希望安全亂搞或者是核廢料亂搞"},{"start":6284.827,"end":6308.86,"text":"那我這邊其實我是很想順著剛剛國民黨業源執委員問的問題再往下問的齁剛剛次長說我們現在核廢的處置齁其實處置跟儲存不一樣啦齁 處置指的是最終處置事實上昨天我看了一下國發會劉金星主委的講法其實有一個地方看起來是有一點不太精準齁"},{"start":6309.941,"end":6333.055,"text":"其實歐盟並沒有說有儲存它就是綠能其實歐盟的說法是核電要有詳細的負責任的最終處置計畫它才能夠被列入綠色融資這其實還是有一些差別的那我就是現在想問現在我們在談假設談最終處置剛剛次長說現在核廢料的處置是大問題"},{"start":6340.937,"end":6359.991,"text":"問題在哪?我跟委員報告確實我們現在核廢料的一個處理他是需要去尋找適當的最終處置我剛剛提到的那個大問題他是一個很複雜的問題比如說我們最終處置要去做這個相關的調查因為沒有法律的規定都沒有辦法去做調查"},{"start":6363.382,"end":6390.696,"text":"其實我們應該更清楚的讓大家知道現在核廢處置最大的問題我今天不管哪一個國家我要怎麼處理核廢料他都要一個地點嘛他都要一個location嘛核廢料不會飄在空中嘛核廢料沒有辦法打到外太空嘛我都要一個地點嘛那這個地點他就需要一個具體的空間嘛所以我們現在遇到最大的問題就是這空間到底在哪裡"},{"start":6392.248,"end":6410.883,"text":"這可能不是簡單的技術問題這就是一個地點在哪裡的問題所以我想問現在新北市侯市長有說他願意作為最終處置長職嗎?噢沒有這不是他自對屏東現在有河山周縣長有說他願意成為最終處置長職嗎?"},{"start":6413.259,"end":6440.342,"text":"現在有哪一個縣市表態說他願意成為最終處置場址目前都沒有這問題是在這裡嘛今天如果沒有一個縣市願意成為最終處置場址請問最終處置場址的選址不管條例怎麼定終究無法前進嘛你可能去做一個地質調查人家就打槍你了吧你說我來做核廢最終處置場址的地質調查他就不讓你進去了"},{"start":6442.921,"end":6467.798,"text":"所以今天我覺得這部分經濟部是可以講清楚的我們不是要把這件事情推給地方政府不是不是要推給地方政府是明確的在這個技術尋找長期的過程他就是要一個地點嘛今天只要這個地點沒出來我坦白說你不管這上面計畫怎麼寫那個都是虛的我自己很清楚你可以做很多paperwork"},{"start":6469.127,"end":6493.635,"text":"但只要那個地點連潛在廠址候選廠址都不願意被列入的狀況之下後面有很多工作是絕對進行不下去的嘛對不對次長是我想委員很清楚的道出我們在進行最終組織廠址選址的這個面臨上的問題次長當然我這個意思不是說你就不用努力就一個政府該負責任政策的角度來說經濟部當然要努力去尋找"},{"start":6495.282,"end":6497.263,"text":"我看到了一些現在在黨的委員在提出關於原液的修法的版本裡面我看到了一個狀況"},{"start":6515.967,"end":6533.974,"text":"我看到好像有部分的委員提出來的版本是想要讓我們的核電廠在沒有執照的狀況下就能繼續運轉這讓大家會很擔心在喪失執照或執照到期狀況之下還可以讓它繼續運轉我要問台電"},{"start":6540.785,"end":6567.154,"text":"沒有執照就沒辦法運轉一個核電機組有辦法在執照失效到期種種的狀況之下沒有執照的情境下還可以繼續運轉嗎?不行這是法規的問題還是安全的問題?有法規的問題也有安全的問題我坦白說今天嚴義與否今天在黨有各種不同的看法跟立場這個事情大家尊重但我卻看到裡面有部分的版本"},{"start":6568.542,"end":6587.077,"text":"是要萬核電廠在沒有執照就能夠運轉喔今天一台車沒有駕照沒有死照可以上路嗎我覺得這個事情其實已經觸犯了很大的安全上的紅線了"},{"start":6589.707,"end":6609.583,"text":"今天我們用什麼方式來確保核電廠的安全我們就是在執照的審查上面設下了諸多嚴格的關卡來確保你要拿這個執照你就要符合一定的安全上面的要求所以如果今天一個核電廠可以在沒有執照或執照喪失狀況之下還能夠運轉請問確保安全的機制怎麼產生 諸位"},{"start":6619.814,"end":6626.479,"text":"主委但是現在國民黨在黨的修法是要說法規上面我就直接讓你允許你沒有執照可以繼續運轉"},{"start":6644.709,"end":6666.073,"text":"這在安全上面請問你們要怎麼確保所以沒有辦法來確保安全問題所以這不是修法的問題對不對是安全的問題這是安全的問題沒有執照的確保就沒有安全對你來說是這樣很清楚對不對是的很清楚我覺得這個是言語與否我覺得大家可以各自討論但如果要去闖這條紅線讓他在沒有執照就要去運轉這等於是要犧牲"},{"start":6673.291,"end":6674.892,"text":"接下來我們請萬美玲委員"},{"start":6698.155,"end":6707.426,"text":"謝謝召委,我想我們請經濟部的林次長,臺電的副總以及我們的主委一起上來好了。好,謝謝三位麻煩。"},{"start":6714.293,"end":6720.277,"text":"首先我想請教一下次長還有徐副總一起準備我想從4月15日台電承認這個機組跳脫供電吃緊那備載容量只剩下3%開始期我們桃園就成為一個停電斷電的一個重災區那從這個4月16到5月12根據桃園市政府他的統計停電已經超過28次了前前後後高達將近9萬5千戶受到這個停電的影響"},{"start":6743.075,"end":6760.1,"text":"那如果要再往前往後再算我覺得那個影響互助其實是更多的那大概上個禮拜六其實也很高興看到我們這個卓榮泰院長到桃園來視察那他剛上任就到桃園來可見他也知道這個問題非常嚴重不過比較美中不足的是"},{"start":6761.52,"end":6785.709,"text":"院長到桃園來既沒有通知桃園市政府也沒有通知本席我們都沒有辦法在第一時間來知道問題的所在或者是提供他我們所知道的訊息我們希望這個部分以後是不是臺電或者是經濟部這裡能夠通知一下我想請教一下次長跟副總總統和院長他說電路是國安層次的問題安全穩定的供電是政府對人民跟全世界的承諾這是對的嗎"},{"start":6787.483,"end":6791.546,"text":"這是我們要做到的任務所以你就是對桃園來講對桃園來講這是嚴重的跳票所以這就是承認了桃園的供電其實是有相當的問題所以我想跳電停電一直這麼頻繁我們更要知道問題點是什麼我們要知道真正的原因是什麼不要老是告訴我們不是鳥就是蛇不是蛇就是螞蟻不是螞蟻又是樹木我覺得這是亂七八糟"},{"start":6813.343,"end":6839.914,"text":"最後還要我們去體恤桃園臺電的這些從業人員本席告訴你我們臺電在桃園所有從政人員真的非常優秀非常的專業但是如果相關的能源政策或是電網的脆弱不是他們能夠去負這個責任的我覺得今天要他們在第一線去承擔我覺得壓力真的是非常大所以我想請教一下次長現在桃園停電到底是什麼原因"},{"start":6840.734,"end":6848.664,"text":"我想地區的停電大部分都是輸就是那個配電的配電的電網所造成的問題那這個造成部分大概"},{"start":6849.696,"end":6868.426,"text":"一半以上是外力一半以上是設備的一個老舊的一個問題處理市長我想過去台電在這裡那我們陸陸續續在各種不同的預算給台電已經高達了4000億今天本席聽到你在答詢的時候還提到說後面好像還有一個1000億還是2000億要繼續再來做4000億也都給了你了那我們看到我們整個電網的狀況還是這麼的脆弱那我想當然我們後續還是要持續的去加強"},{"start":6879.632,"end":6892.43,"text":"該撥補的預算我們當然還是要給但是呢我覺得最重要的是你要知道問題出在哪裡你才有辦法對症下藥嘛所以呢我本期在這邊要求喔次長我想我們希望經濟部能夠立即來研議喔我們將來喔大規模這種停電的這個狀況喔"},{"start":6895.214,"end":6922.592,"text":"不是台電說了算你呼嚨塞給我們一個理由我們就必須要去接受這樣的一個理由我們希望能夠由外部專家學者組成停跳電的這個原因調查委員會然後呢我們有更多公正的人士進來針對國內大規模的這個跳電停電的事故調查然後公佈原因這個可以在一個月之內延映出來做得到嗎相關的一個這個區域的跳電我們都會把原因檢討出來那我們願意提供這相關的資料給"},{"start":6923.841,"end":6942.621,"text":"市長本席講的很清楚請你聽明白一點我講的是說你不管是某一個區域某一個區域只要不管在哪一個區域大規模的停電都不是說經濟部或台電說了算說這是什麼原因因為你公佈的現在就是沒有公信力嘛所以本席希望能不能研議在一個月之內我們看看怎麼樣成立這個跳電或者停電的這個原因調查委員會由外部的專家學者一起進來"},{"start":6947.145,"end":6971.781,"text":"這可以做研議嗎?我想我們很願意邀請外部專家那台電已經朝這方面在進行中好 那我們一個月之內把這個報告提出來好嗎?好 那我想新上任經濟部長我想郭部長也說到說賴總統有指示他要跨部會來檢討能源政策這件事是真的嗎?我想總統很清楚的這個這是不是真的我想能源的部分本來就是跨部會在處理當中這樣子次長"},{"start":6973.055,"end":6980.608,"text":"但現在問題是說我們的郭部長有說賴總統有指示他要做這個跨部會檢討能源政策這點你知道嗎"},{"start":6982.626,"end":7007.574,"text":"我想總統怎麼跟部長講的我不是很清楚但是在部裏面就是在...所以你不清楚這麼大的事情總統交代給部長而次長卻不清楚喔那我覺得你真的要好好去檢討一下我會檢討我個人會檢討好不好好不好那來那所以能源政策如果沒有任何的錯誤喔那為什麼要通盤去檢討顯示就是有問題嗎所以次長我想目前的能源政策我想這不是錯誤的問題對不起喔我還沒有讓他讓你答對不起好"},{"start":7008.234,"end":7011.337,"text":"能源的問題事實上有多元面向我們都在積極的檢討中那我想每一個都是我們可能要去面對的問題"},{"start":7035.988,"end":7057.225,"text":"市長 本席再請教你 我想在蔡政府的時候能源政策曾經說過要在2025年要達成能源轉型的發電佔比那再生能源要能夠達到20%但我們現在可以看到7年下來了我們的這個能源的再生能源的部分大概只有提升了4.9%那很清楚的也承認了就是能源轉型的一個跳票"},{"start":7058.306,"end":7078.113,"text":"那麼再生能源這個成長速度非常的慢而且我想您也一定知道太陽能跟風電都具有不穩定性所以本期來討論這個核三廠一號機組的運轉執照就要在今年的七月到期二號機組也要在明年五月屆期那這個意味著就是核能在2023年178.02億度電在這個明年就全部歸零請教一下這一些已經歸零的電我們要從哪裡去補"},{"start":7086.176,"end":7090.081,"text":"我們有做完整的供電提供事實上會從幾個燃氣電廠跟再生能源、太陽光電跟離岸風力去年的核二廠廚藝的時候當時的黃美化部長說他要用大潭八號機組跟通宵小型機來補但是我們看到台電的官網當中"},{"start":7104.617,"end":7109.12,"text":"大潭八號機仍在試運轉測試中根本沒有辦法立即補上而用燃氣發電的缺點我想不管是發電成本貴或者是運送接收需要特殊的設備還有一些風險同時甲烷也可能會造成全球暖化等等我想這些問題都在了所以次長我再請教您"},{"start":7126.851,"end":7138.392,"text":"現在如果供電不足或者供電不穩定影響的我們知道不是只有民生用電還包含工業用電請問您知道一下我們的護國神山台積電一年的用電量大概是多少嗎?"},{"start":7139.546,"end":7143.451,"text":"我沒有很完整的資訊不過應該會超過百億度本席告訴您台積電在2022年整年的用電量高達210.8億度這是什麼樣的概念就是比整個核三廠目前整年的發電量178億度還要多"},{"start":7157.907,"end":7166.891,"text":"所以我想我們都知道台積電可能會繼續在今年在台灣新建三座晶圓廠還有兩座先進的封裝廠到時候整個用電量恐怕會再創新高那我們看到賴慶德總統說要打到AI之倒但是次長這個AI也需要用電"},{"start":7176.696,"end":7200.827,"text":"不管是我們看到紐約客的報導指出在這個OpenAI的CHAP GPT每一天消耗的電力超過50萬度那麼輝達的網站自己也指出一座有10萬顆H100晶片的AI資料中心它需要的是100兆網的一個電這都非常大量的請問次長經濟部我們有預估我們發展AI需要耗多少的電"},{"start":7202.082,"end":7226.916,"text":"我跟委員報告我們都在做這個同步的一個掌握跟預估那您剛剛提供的資料像OPEN這個CHAP GT它做的部分是那種大型的語言訓練目前不會在台灣做大型的語言訓練那我們會從這個應用端的部分來做微調我想這個是目前台灣在這個AI的一個發展中那本席就很簡單請教您一下那如果因您的看法跟您的專業目前台灣的供電量是否可以穩定的撐起賴清德總統所說的AI之道"},{"start":7228.917,"end":7249.497,"text":"我們很有信心我們可以來供應你覺得非常有信心一定能達成?是,我們有信心你要據時以達,要務實地來達欸我很務實,我們有信心多久可以達成?多久可以達?是您個人有信心還是整體經濟部大家有信心?我們現在每年的供電就按照我們的規劃在落實當中所以這是您個人有信心還是整個經濟部有計畫的?"},{"start":7250.658,"end":7274.794,"text":"我相信我們同仁都有信心能夠來達成最後部長我跟您提光有信心是不夠的有信心當然最好光有信心是不夠的我就要從務實面再去看待我們在台灣現在的整個能源政策整個缺電的問題如果不面對問題尤其像您今天答詢的態度不知道問題不面對問題不覺得問題是問題這些事情永遠都沒有辦法解決的我不是這樣的態度我想我們會有信心來處理謝謝委員好"},{"start":7282.301,"end":7292.063,"text":"本席再次宣布我們在第10位林怡瑾委員這個質詢完畢之後我們就會休息5分鐘那接下來我們請郭玉琴委員謝謝主席有請經濟部林次長還有我們的核安會陳主委是我們請主委跟次長謝謝"},{"start":7310.216,"end":7337.653,"text":"兩位早安我想這個臺灣在使用核電其實碰到最大的一個困境應該是地震地震頻傳然後再來就是核廢料處理的一個問題我想這應該是目前碰到最大的一個狀況那我再次想請教一下這個我們的這個次長的部分其實我的孩子其實都知道有時候停電有時候跳電它並不是缺電的問題"},{"start":7338.914,"end":7341.259,"text":"他其實還有很多外部跟內部的一些問題"},{"start":7342.867,"end":7368.482,"text":"並不是因為台灣缺電是跳電不一定是缺電是好那我想呢現行的一個法規喔其實核電廠要延役其實必須要經過很嚴密的一個計劃啦吼那包含現在我們所知道的如果要延役必須要這個執照借其滿之前就是5到15年中間就要提出這樣子的一個申請那目前我們知道其實在國內我們的不管是核一廠"},{"start":7369.102,"end":7393.999,"text":"或是我們的核二廠在核一廠的部分其實我們重要的一些設備已經慢慢都移除了所以重啟幾乎是沒有可能演繹更不用說了那在這個核二廠的部分其實核廢料的問題還是依舊存在那就算有些某些我們的這個立委有一些執念就是說還要想要再做重啟的部分其實是不是也無法運轉核二的部分"},{"start":7395.86,"end":7411.998,"text":"我想這個法規面已經很明確的規範住他是不可能再重啟好那另外在核三的部分在這個一號機組是今年的七月底然後再來二號機組是在明年的五月中他們就確定要除役了"},{"start":7413.058,"end":7438.878,"text":"當然這個部分其實還是會有人會想要就是在做一些不管是中間的一些全世界的一個創舉想要再利用一些比方說像修法這樣子的一個部分要希望這個核三要繼續的工作要繼續的這個研議這個部分我想要問的就是核一剛剛已經講了他不會再有重建"},{"start":7440.093,"end":7453.947,"text":"的問題和二目前其實就算要再重啟其實還要整體的再重新再評估這個評估大概要多久還有包含我剛剛問的核三如果真的要研議的話會面臨到什麼樣的法律跟安全上的問題"},{"start":7455.345,"end":7470.641,"text":"我想這個法規面上我們有很完備的這個相關的研議的法規的規定那目前核三廠不管是一號機或二號機都已經過了研議的一個這個這個申請的時間那依照法規規範他是不可能再進行所謂研議的工作"},{"start":7471.181,"end":7473.804,"text":"如果沒有研議,如果沒辦法重啟,那未來我們台灣的用電會不會受到影響?我想大部分的人應該都會把焦點放在這一塊,因為這是跟他們切身有關係的。"},{"start":7490.86,"end":7518.835,"text":"是,那我們經濟部就是要做到這樣的一個穩定供電的狀況那我們會去預估詳細的需求去做好供給的一個這個提供那我剛剛提到我們已經就這個核三廠的一個一號機或二號機他們要停止運轉的所需要的供電都做好準備那包括我們的一個這個天然氣的電廠包括我們的再生能源太陽光電或者是離岸風電都已經會在今年或明年來做成長增加"},{"start":7519.375,"end":7535.408,"text":"已經有做過一個比較基礎的一個數據上的一個評估嗎?是 是 我們有很詳細的一個評估跟規劃所以目前就算我們的核三其實我們也不會有所謂的這個延役的這個問題那就算不延役台灣其實沒有缺電的問題可以這樣說嗎?這個是我們努力在做到的一個事情"},{"start":7536.496,"end":7556.545,"text":"好那接下來我想要問的就是所謂的核融合技術方面的研究了因為其實我們有提到所謂的這個劇變的那個研究其實分兩個不同的部分包含其實另外一個趨勢其中的一個趨勢是這個磁局線融合那另外一個是慣性局線融合那我們台灣其實是"},{"start":7557.185,"end":7559.046,"text":"這個部分抱歉我沒有很深入的了解我可不可以請台電來回答一下"},{"start":7582.91,"end":7594.966,"text":"主要是因為它經費的問題啦因為這個大概一個跨國最早這個計畫沒錯30年前發起的那當時大概只有7個國家現在我記得已經擴充到17個國家所以這個是比較主流的一個計畫嘛對不對目前來講是國際比較主流的"},{"start":7597.85,"end":7622.763,"text":"但是這個慣性局限融合的部分其實美國在2022年的年底它的Q值已經首次大於1也就是說它在這個部分它是提前先達標了那為什麼我們還是比較堅持在所謂的這個次局限融合這個部分我們比較聚焦在這個基本上前面那一個有關於所謂的所謂的托克馬克那個機型來講現在是國際的主流"},{"start":7625.684,"end":7644.963,"text":"那底下那個是勞倫斯利物末在加州的舊金山的一個國家實驗室那這個實驗室因為可是他達到所謂的淨值的部分大概我記得大概只有0.1秒左右所以他還未來如果在發電上還有發電效率的損失所以這一塊來講目前在國際上"},{"start":7645.964,"end":7647.025,"text":"目前來講就我知道大概國研院這裡會有一個計畫在走"},{"start":7664.233,"end":7680.424,"text":"什麼樣的計劃在走?這個部分其實是一個國科會補助的一個整合型計劃有五個子計劃兩年一起總共有四年它其實算是一個基礎研究"},{"start":7681.324,"end":7700.484,"text":"那麼我們一年投入3500萬那兩年一起那麼後面還有第二期是那這個其實跟國際的那個ITER法國的團隊跨國的團隊其實是非常前沿然後我想我們這個只是一個"},{"start":7701.505,"end":7711.786,"text":"研究用基礎研究的我們離實際運作即便國際上前沿的團隊離實際商轉運作都還有很大的一段距離"},{"start":7714.217,"end":7739.507,"text":"接下來我要問一下就是近年來其實關於所謂的核融合的這個技術其實我們都一直朝這個方面去努力那2024年是不是有可能這個核融合他也有可能目前是沒有辦法達到的對不對但是我們從新聞報導當中其實發現了有一間比較特殊的公司在這裡我想要提出來我想這個部分"},{"start":7740.027,"end":7763.176,"text":"我不曉得就是我們這個主委這邊有沒有概括性的指導就是說他們好像也不是做這兩塊剛剛我們介紹過的這個核融合的這兩個不同的研究方向可是他們在大篇幅的媒體報導當中說他們已經開始核融合而且還要把它所謂的商業化那這個部分"},{"start":7764.036,"end":7772.842,"text":"我們有沒有去觀察或者我們有沒有去關切到底這間公司他所說的這個核融核的技巧核融核的這個技術是真的如他所說的是這樣嗎"},{"start":7774.176,"end":7801.466,"text":"我想這個部分我大概有一些了解那麼我跟其中一位創辦人也有聊過那麼他其實是前國科委主委那麼這個部分其實我們後續還可以再觀察一下那麼我的理解是這個技術門檻很高那麼如果他有一個很突破性那麼在國際上應該是一個很大的新聞才對"},{"start":7803.426,"end":7825.918,"text":"我想後續還可以再觀察一下因為其實我們也很擔心他的宣傳其實有點擴大了就是說他講說他的Q值可以穩定大於1而且長達數小時但他剛剛不是用剛剛所講的那兩個不同的一個趨勢所以這個部分我想可能還是要懇切的觀察因為我知道這間公司好像還在募資"},{"start":7827.139,"end":7827.799,"text":"接下來我們請吳佩奕委員"},{"start":7860.515,"end":7864.764,"text":"謝謝主席我請核安會主委及經濟部次長好主委跟次長"},{"start":7868.852,"end":7873.233,"text":"我首先先請教主委因為大家都很關心的核一廠的乾除那終於呢在卡關了11年之後在這個月5月10號那我們核一廠的乾除水土保持計畫終於獲得了新北市政府審查的核定那接下來大家就關心啦核定之後到啟用中間目前我們還需要進行哪些工作"},{"start":7898.22,"end":7900.307,"text":"這個部分可以請台電他講的比較好來可以請台電"},{"start":7904.438,"end":7931.418,"text":"目前來講大概新北市只要它禁流廢水合可以後大概我們下個月下個月就會進行所謂邊坡的一個補強的一個工作大概就那預定我們大概三個月可以完成完成以後大概有所謂的冷測試跟熱測試都要做所以整個的測試完成以後然後還要送最後的核安會的安全審查這一塊都要做大概到明年去了"},{"start":7931.798,"end":7945.844,"text":"最後還要送到我們核安會來做安全審查嘛那因為核一廠在新北雙北也是生活圈那本會呢我們委員會其實也有新北市的立委我是台北市的立委所以安全是非常的重要所以以剛剛這樣來估算我們這個水土保持改善的工程要先進行你之後要做熱測試然後要安全測試可能好幾種項目那我們是不是還有要邀請國際的廠商來協助進行計轉"},{"start":7960.802,"end":7972.148,"text":"有,這一塊來講我們有一個所謂的請美國電力研究院的專家在整個我們包括我們測試的過程裡面他做第三方的這個查驗已經開始在洽談了對,已經在洽談了所以我們整個預計這個時間有沒有一個初估的時程"},{"start":7979.392,"end":7999.135,"text":"預計大概我們希望在明年3月之前能夠送給核安會審查那明年底大概希望把核一廠裡面反應爐裡面的燃料能夠移到所謂的乾除設施來因為卡關了11年我們終於有一個進展但是安全還是最高的原則"},{"start":7999.615,"end":8027.874,"text":"所以請務必要秉持我們的專業來進行安全的把關再來一個問題就是干式儲存廠它也是階段性的我們的最終核廢料的最終儲置廠剛剛前面葉元之委員也問過了目前看不出選址有沒有一個地點當然因為選址它涉及到的還有民意跟社會的共識但是核廢料的最終儲置廠我們有沒有持續的在進行評估"},{"start":8029.373,"end":8050.792,"text":"目前來講大概先跟委員報告就是說荷蘭料的最終處置其實不是光台灣遇到這個問題是就是其實沒有一個縣市願意把這個設施呢志願說我在這裡所以全世界目前來講確定的大概只有兩個到三個國家是芬蘭瑞典法國那"},{"start":8052.059,"end":8075.323,"text":"另外截至到今天為止沒有一個地方正式在運轉所以全球大概都會遇到這個問題所以在這部分來講我們台電公司目前對外在做大概就是要加強整個國際合作包括參與芬蘭的私運轉計畫那後面要同時進行的大概就是所謂社會溝通的這一塊也包括立法"},{"start":8075.723,"end":8083.545,"text":"因為我們現在必須要有一個法源的依據這也是外面公民團體跟台電公司還有經濟部目前在努力的工作我為什麼問這個問題我請次長來回答因為呢這牽涉到我們能源的政策有一句話說沒有辦法解決核廢料沒有資格談核電這句話是誰說你們知道嗎我們新北市的侯友宜市長"},{"start":8098.149,"end":8101.552,"text":"也就是說社會上還有不少的人對核能的安全是有很大的疑慮因為核廢料如剛剛台電所回答最終處置場我們目前不是只有台灣很多大部分國家都找不到解決的方式所以請你們務必還是要秉持專業持續來評估我們核廢料最終處置場是 這個我們一定秉持最專業的方式來做是 然後我要請教次長"},{"start":8120.731,"end":8130.899,"text":"你有沒有看到一個新聞是5月中的時候美國宣布對俄羅斯有一項制裁就是要禁止進口濃縮鈾這是一個核燃料你有沒有看到這個新聞"},{"start":8132.448,"end":8134.589,"text":"跟委員很坦誠說我沒看過這個新聞好那這個你要再去了解那美國為什麼提出這項制裁呢因為他們擔心說跟俄羅斯進口又會成為這個俄羅斯進攻烏克蘭做軍事攻擊的這個資金所以基於國安的考量美國下了這個進口令"},{"start":8152.758,"end":8156.101,"text":"美國過去是高度的仰賴俄羅斯進口鈾比例高達了24%所以他們也開始在要做進口替代加強對美國本土鈾燃料生產的投資那包括英國的智庫皇家聯合軍事研究所也都指出美國現在對俄羅斯進行這個進口鈾的制裁那很可能也會變成中國來擴大他鈾出口的"},{"start":8177.641,"end":8203.998,"text":"因為今天的報告當中我們有討論到小型核電廠過去小型核電廠所使用的濃縮鈾過去只有一家俄羅斯的國營企業有生產所以我看到美國這個資訊我就相當的關注那我想未來我們在評估當中你們要非常的清楚了解到能源政策除了能源以外因為你牽涉到這個燃料的國際供應鏈它勢必也要去考量國際的局勢"},{"start":8206.072,"end":8221.54,"text":"那國際局勢的變動他回頭過來有可能影響到我們燃料供應的穩定性所以國安安全絕對也是你們要衡量其中之一所以請次長去進行了解是好我們會最後呢我要這個請教的是我們有一個RE100"},{"start":8223.201,"end":8235.688,"text":"是我們這個企業界來實行一個承諾希望能夠達到百分之百的再生能源的使用那台灣我們有很多廠商都有加入包括有台積電、宏基、聯電等等的那這一個RE100次長他的目前訂定的時間希望什麼時候可以達成這個目標"},{"start":8244.343,"end":8255.198,"text":"如果我沒有記錯應該2030年是 那在再生RA100裡面它的再生能源的定義有沒有包括核電我想目前沒有"},{"start":8256.587,"end":8260.308,"text":"目前沒有嘛所以說對我們現在台灣尤其是台積電大家很關注因為我們台灣這些廠商現在已經國際市場當中非常關鍵重要的角色所以他們會有很多國際的夥伴所以他們跟這些國際夥伴在交易的時候他們就牽涉到"},{"start":8274.813,"end":8276.675,"text":"的這些大廠的國際承諾所以如果他沒有辦法打到的話可能會影響到他的訂單所以我們這些台灣的廠商有沒有向經濟部提出需求讓他們能夠來去提高購買他的再生能源"},{"start":8290.21,"end":8303.737,"text":"這些國內的科技業者不僅是科技業者很多的傳統產業廠商都希望經濟部能擴大再生能源的開發跟供應我想這個部分是必然的確定是這樣子的那我們怎麼提供協助呢因為他的時間是2030最終是2040年要達到100%的目標所以他不需要逐年來提升他購買再生能源嗎目前我們怎麼協助台灣的本土廠商"},{"start":8316.283,"end":8341.768,"text":"是我想我們就是這個依照我們現在所規劃的把最成熟的這個光電還有這個離岸風電做最大的開發那另外我們也積極的納入像地熱跟生資能作為現在比較潛力大的一個再生能源的供應的來源那希望說盡最大能力來從開源端就是供應端來提供另外這個綠電的那個這個交易我們也建立"},{"start":8342.208,"end":8362.013,"text":"一個比較完整的機制來提供給這些相關所需要的企業來購買他所需要的力電是經濟部你們管能源你們很重要你們也管產業所以務必要協助我們臺灣的廠商能夠進入國際市場要持續來提升供應他們再生能源的需求所以要繼續努力好不好好我們會努力好謝謝"},{"start":8367.045,"end":8375.047,"text":"好 謝謝兩位接下來我們請01級委員在我們01級委員這個質詢完畢之後我們就休息五分鐘謝謝來謝謝主席有請河安會陳竹偉還有經濟部林次長好我們請竹偉跟次長謝謝"},{"start":8389.833,"end":8416.153,"text":"林委員好委員好大家好我想依照環境基本法第二三條的精神政府應訂定計畫逐步達成非核家園的目標除了本與環境保護的精神我們本來就應該要逐步降低對核能發電的使用最後核電歸零而在面對台灣現在核電廠已經實質除役或即將除役的情形本席認為"},{"start":8417.374,"end":8419.557,"text":"創意現有核電廠延役繼續發電我覺得不但短視近利而且他們忽略了各種龐大而且深不可測的成本怎麼說齁"},{"start":8432.45,"end":8451.303,"text":"指出有不少支持台灣現在不應該放棄核電的人士常常用國際的標準說核電是乾淨的能源作為論述的資料可是本席認為核能發電完全無法符合綠電的概念所以我認為核電"},{"start":8452.924,"end":8453.084,"text":"韓國瑜委員"},{"start":8479.241,"end":8501.655,"text":"最重要的還是核廢污染是對後代的負面影響這個影響甚大所以用盡所謂的手段要要求重啟核電就會製造更多的核廢料更多的不正義那我想要擁核卻又忽視核廢料在儲存上有許多的難處像是選址的困難像是"},{"start":8504.556,"end":8511.097,"text":"現有的燃料池滿載以及長期煮放廠規劃的時程還很長等等的問題這就好比說你生了一個孩子你只想玩他可是又不想生養他不處理他的這個吃喝拉撒等等那這就是很顯然的你忽視了核廢料的處置的人就好像真的很不負責任"},{"start":8531.667,"end":8557.947,"text":"的這種概念好那如果說除役的進程確定那核廢料的數量就會固定不變那我們或許就可以比較具體的來規劃核廢料處置設置的計畫可是一旦核電廠延役那核廢料就會隨之增加那不僅增加核廢料處置計畫的不確定性也降低人民對政府處置這個核廢料信心"},{"start":8559.287,"end":8581.681,"text":"當然也恐怕會增加跟社會溝通的困難所以核安會的業務當然包含核廢料的監管那延役顯然會導致核廢料問題更欠缺的社會共識並且更難解決所以要請教主委跟次長你們是否同意核電廠延役確實將造成更難解決的核廢料問題"},{"start":8585.746,"end":8591.496,"text":"陳主委員講的那個研議當然這個核廢料會逐漸增加然後那麼這個會增加這個將來處理的複雜跟難度"},{"start":8597.97,"end":8616.821,"text":"所以次長也同意我想生產就一定產生廢料嘛那廢料儲存現在目前是一個很複雜的問題我同意好那接下來想要討論說那之所以有人要擁核核電廠延役當然他們理由是說有助穩定電價可是這種觀點我覺得他就忽略了"},{"start":8618.042,"end":8635.039,"text":"嚴疫過程中他為了確保他的機組能運作安全跟效率所以他需要進行機組更新的這個成本的問題這個都沒有想過那除了機組更新的成本核安的措施也是一個成本之一"},{"start":8635.78,"end":8640.125,"text":"尤其在台灣這個所謂的被複合式的災害威脅的這個島嶼我們有台風我們有地震這種天災所以安全性的問題真的是不容忽視所以簡言之"},{"start":8651.258,"end":8671.055,"text":"基礎的更新跟安全的維護兩者的基金的投入應該會相當的可觀這個不能單看說電價相對低的這個觀點來切入而已所以關於基礎的更新跟維護的成本這個部分核安會跟經濟部是否有審慎的這個評估過那確切會是大約什麼樣的數字"},{"start":8678.387,"end":8681.209,"text":"我可不可以請我們台電這邊來回應一下這部分牽扯到設備的更新還有安全的這一塊所以目前來講這個數字跟委員講的沒有錯的確是龐大所以一個非常龐大的數字所以還沒有辦法估出這麼龐大的數字會大約多少目前來講是還沒有估出來"},{"start":8704.11,"end":8721.86,"text":"我想沒有人希望核災發生啦所以我現在想就叫主委就是說在核子事故緊急應變計畫的疏散規劃裡頭我們是以8公里內在籍人數3萬人為考量而不是考量非在籍實居的這種工作人口十幾萬人"},{"start":8722.961,"end":8749.989,"text":"那這個是否會低估他的疏散的時間以及救護跟安置的需求我們用核三廠和恆春的那個聯外道路只有台26線來看遇到春假或寒暑假或大型的活動他這近幾年都幾乎有差不多超過26萬人出入墾丁的這種台灣季如果遇到這樣的情形你會有更進一步或更"},{"start":8751.209,"end":8778.876,"text":"規劃更細緻的這個所謂的應變緊急的應變計畫嗎?主委這個緊急應變計畫是在電廠8公里之內我們叫EPZROM就是緊急應變的區域那當然對於流動的人口我們是沒有辦法去及時來掌握因為特別是觀光客就像委員提到的所以這一部分當然"},{"start":8779.918,"end":8803.978,"text":"有不確定性所以我覺得你們在規劃中其實還要再加入這些對 因為你說像核三廠所在地的這個恆春它的這個觀光客的數量確實是龐大的特別遇到一些特別的這個假日所以如果說在特別的假日然後發生了任何的核災的問題那你們這個應變計畫就要更周圍一點"},{"start":8806.62,"end":8810.701,"text":"另外我想依據河山場這個地震危害跟篩選報告河山場東側緊鄰河村的這個活動斷層那西側外海又有所謂的逆沖斷層那場內的這個河島區底下的這個淺層地質又發現有簡列跟被寫的地層變形那地表的加速度可達1.384G"},{"start":8832.285,"end":8841.796,"text":"我想不僅是三座核電廠最高也超過核三廠可以安全停機的耐震程度的0.72G所以本席認為當初就已經缺乏詳細的資料來評估而不當的選址那陸續研究出來這些地址的事證更是"},{"start":8852.367,"end":8852.467,"text":"主委"},{"start":8870.273,"end":8890.925,"text":"這個部分其實我們最近做那個Shake Level 3那麼報告正在台電那麼我們會來檢視那後續如果有必要會再做進一步的補強那麼但是在更低的這個這個加速度的時候其實我們會有安全自動"},{"start":8892.166,"end":8919.284,"text":"緊急關閉的一個裝置好我想最後本席要重申立場我堅決反對老舊核電廠和延役也反對任何為延役或重啟做開後門的這個修法我想核能涉及專業的評估絕非政治的操作不要讓今天的決定成為明天的困境以上謝謝謝謝主委謝謝次長謝謝主席"},{"start":8921.369,"end":8922.774,"text":"謝謝,那我們現在就先休息五分鐘,謝謝"},{"start":9231.874,"end":9231.894,"text":"蔣麗芸議員"},{"start":9252.409,"end":9280.636,"text":"首先我先請教次長就是說其實因為其實大家今天都一直不停的在問就是AI因為這也是賴總統的一個政見就是說我們要發展AI可是因為從很多的報告也都在講說AI的用量是非常非常的高那今天有非常多的委員也都非常關心說我們真的有去準備好嗎因為企業要發展經濟要發展電就要準備好那我次長剛剛其實也說了我們都有在準備那我可不可以請次長再做一些詳細的說明我們怎麼做這些準備跟一些預估謝謝"},{"start":9282.237,"end":9300.516,"text":"我剛剛提到我們每年都會做未來用電的需求預估我們現在已經做到2030年每一年的用電需求我們除了用GDP的成長來做預估之外我們最近也把半保體的一個發展跟AI的發展把它加進去也就是說我們除了GDP的成長之外"},{"start":9300.936,"end":9327.914,"text":"也把半導體這個用電可能會比較這個發展的快然後AI的部分都把它加進去在我們估計每年用電需求的一個這個估計的一個這個參數裡面這部分我剛剛前面都已經有聽到那講說這個電源的規劃是什麼因為大家都很擔心嘛我們你算的好像都有算那這個電源是怎麼樣做分配的是不是有需要用到核能這件事情是不是可以請如果我們現在做的這些規劃可不可以再做一些說明"},{"start":9328.875,"end":9350.452,"text":"我們這個需求推估出來之後我們就去規劃我們的一個供電的狀況那每年的供電我們發現說需要去建新的電力的時候目前為止我們都是擴大綠能的一個投入以及這個燃氣電廠的一個投入那另外一部分就是把燃煤的部分能夠逐漸的降下來我想目前的一個電力的一個發展的一個配比是這樣子"},{"start":9351.152,"end":9368.386,"text":"但是為了淨零的一個發展事實上我們在這個這個氫能的發展目前投入了一些示範的一個運行的一個這樣的一個實驗在進行中那另外一個部分就是說未來我們的火力電廠要碳中和需要用到CCUS的這個部分我們就在相關的一個這個以國營事業的這個"},{"start":9374.431,"end":9399.691,"text":"市長我想直接這樣問好了就是說其實我們其實我也從網路上面是有看到臺電是有做一些相關的規劃然後看起來在高峰期好像也都能夠持續的供電那我們也有一個長期電源開發的規劃那我就想問一下就是說我當然我也昨天也看到你們發了一個最新的新聞就是說新增的燃氣的氣阻扣阻除液的激阻後進增加到2030年會增加910"},{"start":9401.442,"end":9401.462,"text":"是﹗"},{"start":9417.917,"end":9431.253,"text":"委員這個是我們這邊正在做好所以我想再確認一下因為大家都非常關心這個缺電會影響經濟發展所以我們現在在2030年目前我們都已經把AI跟半導體的部分都已經放進去了"},{"start":9432.534,"end":9432.994,"text":"主委,您認同這樣的主張嗎?"},{"start":9454.994,"end":9466.832,"text":"我站在核安會的立場我不能夠對這個能源政策來做表態我想這個是不是留給經濟部來回答那不好意思 那我就直接問到細節好了"},{"start":9470.322,"end":9496.997,"text":"就是說我們在這個OL3我查到的資料是說他原本是說在他說在這15年事實上他供期延宕前前後後花了18年那一個反應爐呢成本也從最初的30億暴增到111億的歐元所以整個成長了80億喔所以這好像似乎跟我們從網路上面新聞得到的數字是有點落差的那再來就是說"},{"start":9498.158,"end":9523.11,"text":"也有去講述這個SMR的小型模組反應爐就美國設計的這個SMR的反應爐呢是宣布在第一座即將在2015年上線但是到現在此時此刻都還沒有上線已經拖延到2030年成本也大幅的增加這個是根據而且在根據美國國家科學院刊發表期刊是說每增加他在SMR所每成產生的一定"},{"start":9524.451,"end":9533.303,"text":"一單位的電力就會產生更多的核廢料比原本的傳統反應爐高出30倍這部分我想跟主委確認我得到的資訊是正確的嗎?"},{"start":9535.25,"end":9562.221,"text":"應該是正確好 那接下來就繼續請教就是說既然看起來現在所謂的新技術好像是沒有辦法解決我們所謂的核廢料的這個問題那我們就回來看我們現在的核廢料的處理因為畢竟是一個最重要的事情就是說我們現在的核燃料其實已經是爆滿了因為早期我們在做這些評估的時候過於樂觀所以並沒有"},{"start":9563.101,"end":9565.964,"text":"從這張圖就可以非常清楚的知道說"},{"start":9574.514,"end":9596.531,"text":"我們現在不管是在燃料池的已經差不多了還甚至有一些像是核一廠還有724宿核二廠還有1248宿都是沒有辦法拿出來的那我也有看到新聞是說我們即將在核一的部分已經好像今年年底就可以啟動了對嗎但是我想問現在只是核一喔還有核二那核二的進度在哪裡"},{"start":9607.694,"end":9610.585,"text":"抱歉那個時間可以還給我齁因為我聽不到他在說什麼"},{"start":9614.8,"end":9638.567,"text":"目前在最終處置這一塊的確我們遇到了一些問題所以目前來講我們台電公司也是積極在所謂的希望能夠走所謂的中期儲存的這一塊對所以我們現在核二的進度呢現在是還沒有辦法找到最終處置的地方嗎還是還在申請中還是怎麼樣可以說明嗎核二的部分大概所謂的室外乾儲部分目前我們正在等法院的一個調解"},{"start":9639.407,"end":9654.081,"text":"對,跟新北市的調解對不對?對對對的調解那如果跟新北市調解完以後大概後面我們大概可能需要花到兩年到三年的時間二到三年的時間所以這個部分的話我們還需要二到三年來處理嘛對不對?好"},{"start":9655.542,"end":9678.276,"text":"我想就是說不管是中研院的研究也有講到或是世界在講這件事情都有講核能發電最大的主力其實是在放射性廢棄物的最終處置廠不管是從技術的角度或者是說安全性這件事情它其實都是一個我們要不要決定用核電最艱難的決定"},{"start":9680.277,"end":9694.571,"text":"所以呢我想就是說因為畢竟我們從這上面的所有的資料可以看到核一場核二場都已經戒期核三場也都已經超過申請延役的期限現在也沒有辦法解決最終的這個處置場的這個問題"},{"start":9697.994,"end":9713.229,"text":"其實中研院的建議書也有提供到我們還有其他的能源就像剛剛講的再生能源、減碳的選擇、除能設備這其實都是可以解決我們企業需要用電的問題所以我希望主委這邊一定要來努力以專業的角度"},{"start":9716.632,"end":9718.652,"text":"這是關於所有人民的安全 謝謝"},{"start":9750.682,"end":9751.403,"text":"范芸委員"},{"start":9771.115,"end":9784.588,"text":"謝謝兩位可不可以請問一下我們近五年就是核能佔比跟再生能源的發電量佔比那現在的情況如何那預計五年後的狀況如何這個應該是不是請我們經濟次長回答林次長"},{"start":9790.545,"end":9811.856,"text":"報告我們去年核能的發電佔比大概是6.3%那這個再生能源是9.5%那我們預估在今年再生能源應該可以到13%左右對所以已經超過核能佔比嗎是是是那五年後你們的預估是甚麼五年後我們希望2030年的時候大概再生能源可以達到30%左右對"},{"start":9814.977,"end":9840.717,"text":"核能大概就是我們都除以了嘛對核能就是零那會有缺電的問題嗎因為今天早上我們的預設好像是我們要發展AI就會缺電這個你們當你們沒有評估過嗎剛剛那個評估裡面有沒有評估到AI我想我很具體明確的回答說事實上我們對未來的用電需求我們有長達5到10年的推估然後根據這個推估我們把所有的供電能量都準備好"},{"start":9841.797,"end":9863.551,"text":"實際上剛剛提到這個核能山廠的一號機會二號機會除以早在這個三四年前我們就在推估這樣的情形那就把這個要準備的這個基礎都準備好那會上來基礎包括我們的燃氣的基礎包括我們的再生能源太陽光電跟離岸風電都會上來所以你們其實都評估在裡面嗎是是是好那再來我應該這個是要請問是我們核安會的主委嗎陳主委"},{"start":9869.575,"end":9885.505,"text":"剛剛我們也談到新型核能那我所看到的研究就是目前還是有很大的技術瓶頸要到2050年才有可能商轉那這個是這樣子嗎?您同意這個說法嗎?同意所以2050年離現在還多久?"},{"start":9890.347,"end":9910.322,"text":"還有27年嘛如果技術瓶頸不突破的話2050年還有商轉嘛就算它有商轉發電成本是個大問題那我看到的研究報告這個是PNAS就是美國國家科學院院刊是美國前核能管制委員會主委參與的研究團隊他們的報告說比傳統核電廠還可能產生高達30倍的核廢料"},{"start":9918.548,"end":9932.628,"text":"發電成本比再生能源高出3至5倍就算安全問題有比較好核廢料是30倍再生能源成本3到5倍這個我們主委有看過這個報告嗎"},{"start":9934.136,"end":9960.569,"text":"是的,我也幫你看看 是不是這樣子是的,因為主要是這樣子那個prototype新型的、原型的開發需要投入更多的經費是,開發這個投出更多的經費對,它有研發的性質所以即便現在在那個NewScale的公司我在報告裡面有說明那麼它也因為不符合商業利益所以它終止"},{"start":9961.539,"end":9985.961,"text":"是不符合商業利益所以我看到這個報告裏面發電成本的估計是能源公司估計的SMR的成本是每兆瓦105到135美元風力發電的成本是每兆瓦25到32美元然後太陽能電的成本是每兆瓦32到37美元這樣沒錯吧"},{"start":9987.569,"end":10005.996,"text":"所以是不是主委都要能告訴大家至少在2050年前就目前技術不突破的情況下核廢料是30倍發電成本比再生能源高3到5倍所以我想我們這是專業問題剛講的都是尊重專業專業的問題專業給答案我們才能夠做整體的安全評估"},{"start":10013.799,"end":10033.545,"text":"當然除了安全評估之外我想很多人講過很多次應該是三個前提第一個一個最基本的這討論都是要尊重專業不是我們非專業的人做的評估專業的評估第二個這是前提然後第一個就是核安的問題剛剛有很多人講到地震的部分"},{"start":10034.465,"end":10051.75,"text":"就是我也想再追問一下如果真的立法院也許萬一用多數的表決要演繹的話那是不是核安的部分要重新評估因為過去的報告有把地震帶這些東西都評估進去嗎?"},{"start":10053.902,"end":10055.182,"text":"還有一個就是也是剛剛好幾位委員講到的"},{"start":10083.03,"end":10095.315,"text":"就是目前台灣的核廢料我們涉及一個很大的問題這部分是不是先請核安會主委也許更專業有多少國家有走到最終處置場"},{"start":10097.352,"end":10114.475,"text":"目前我理解就芬蘭現在在試營運那試營運那他的成本有算到裡面嗎沒有成本我也不知道那以芬蘭的條件你覺得台灣找得到低階跟高階的最終處置場嗎這個有點困難有點困難低階根據法規是不是要在地公投"},{"start":10123.786,"end":10128.47,"text":"我剛剛聽到你們的討論曾經評估過花蓮跟金門你們評估在地公投會通過嗎?低階不是那低階曾經評估過哪裡?那個低階曾經在經濟部曾經就提出兩個候選場子就是在台東跟在金門"},{"start":10148.867,"end":10176.321,"text":"台東跟金門那你們評估到目前為止因為地方政府沒有辦理公投地方政府不願意辦公投沒有人要辦公投那你們評估就算他們辦公投公投會通過嗎沒有公投會不會過是要看民意那地方政府也不願意辦公投那高階的部分目前以我的了解連法規都沒有如果法規公投在地公投也是基本的民主尊重吧"},{"start":10177.865,"end":10193.492,"text":"對,的確目前來講是沒有法規依據那你們覺得找得到就是說最終處置廠像芬蘭現在正在實驗跟努力中的嗎?芬蘭我們都知道他那個地方非常的大北邊就是很大的森林綠地"},{"start":10194.272,"end":10211.086,"text":"我們在2017年的時候的確已經確定就是說台灣是有所謂的花崗岩的這個母岩可以適合做最重的處置那請問是在哪個縣市有在2017的時候大概我們確定大概就是曾經有在金門跟花蓮金門跟花蓮高街那你們有請問過金門民選立委跟花蓮民選立委的意見嗎所以當時我們就是"},{"start":10219.293,"end":10243.772,"text":"這部分在社會的溝通跟地方的政府的這個部分的確遇到困難金門縣政府會花蓮縣政府會支持嗎目前來講是不會目前是不會所以我們討論這個部分剛剛主委跟經濟部次長為什麼都沒有把這些條件告訴大家好像這都不需要處理的問題以我看到的資料"},{"start":10245.899,"end":10260.239,"text":"連這個所謂的最終處置場連法國、日本、英國、俄羅斯、中國都還在尋求選址中國我們都知道不是個民主國家所以我想這是一個蠻大的這個部分"},{"start":10260.88,"end":10276.588,"text":"雖然不是安全問題也是一個民主國家基本的倫理問題垃圾場都沒有人想要的有0幣的問題更何況是連低階都還在對不起原住民跟蘭嶼人找不到最終處置場那更何況高階"},{"start":10278.449,"end":10294.561,"text":"那依照這兩個所以請我們的官員講清楚歐盟的分類法是有條件納入核能作為氣候減緩跟調適的項目所謂乾淨能源跟綠色能源是Do not significant harm"},{"start":10295.629,"end":10319.539,"text":"沒有不要有傷害有意義的傷害臺灣現階段的核電廠根本不符合乾淨或綠色能源因為我們沒有辦法處理中等低跟極低放射性廢棄物的最終處置設施那更何況沒有設施就不會有具體且具細節步驟的計劃所以我們並沒有那個不造成重大傷害的條件"},{"start":10321.42,"end":10334.975,"text":"所以就算你們延役了這兩個問題不解決也不是企業可以用的綠色能源跟乾淨能源這個主委同不同意我講的何安慧主委同意同意那可不可以說清楚說大聲一點"},{"start":10336.252,"end":10350.517,"text":"同意你們不說清楚是我們這個委員自己來做研究幫你說清楚不大對吧那主委可不可以請你告訴我們國安會主委好嗎橫向溝通一下他跟你比起來他是核能專家嗎"},{"start":10353.351,"end":10357.513,"text":"國安會主委有上新聞國發會主委一時不太開心國發會主委不是能源專家吧應該不是那您是專業的是不是橫向跟他講一下不要誤解了歐盟的這個相關的分類好嗎謝謝"},{"start":10380.407,"end":10387.452,"text":"好謝謝接下來王宏威委員王宏威委員王宏威委員羅廷偉委員好謝謝主席請邀請我們陳主委還有經濟部林次長好我們請主委跟次長"},{"start":10410.624,"end":10427.31,"text":"主委,市長,謝謝。我想大家都很關心核能,那剛剛也有在討論到所謂的核廢料的處置,但我還是要講另外一層面的,我們現階段就兩位能夠知道,國人現在十大的癌症大概是哪幾個癌嗎?"},{"start":10431.36,"end":10455.015,"text":"大概就好沒關係這沒有要考試我想可能胃癌大腸癌肺腺癌這些可能都是我們現在是大前三名肺癌大家都認同那很多人都知道平均每兩個人就有一個人是肺癌那發現的時候呢幾乎都是晚期尤其是肺腺癌那我自己也有親友有得過肺腺癌"},{"start":10455.695,"end":10480.114,"text":"我想近年來抽菸的人口不斷地下降但是肺癌的罹患並沒有去降低而多數也都有發現這個有相關的數據在支撐肺癌的患者有些是不抽菸的那我們就很納悶沒有抽菸也有基因的問題沒有基因的問題"},{"start":10481.998,"end":10485.301,"text":"欸 也有可能是有所謂的空氣汙染的問題"},{"start":10486.334,"end":10512.136,"text":"所以我們更希望臺中在面對這個火力全開的中火我們更想要探討一下是不是有相關的配套方式能夠去舒緩現階段臺中的困境中部無限式的困境我們空氣污染的一個困境我想根據經濟部2021年結算的資料臺灣電力83%來自於火力發電其中燃料以天然氣燃煤為主"},{"start":10513.457,"end":10519.724,"text":"藍媒佔火力發電2021年53%藍氣供電比45%換算下來臺灣發電約37%依賴天然氣臺灣的天然氣主要來源國是卡達印尼馬來西亞臺灣是海島型國家如果遇到了颱風驚襲導致傳奇的沿墮甚至是最近中國大陸開始進行的軍演"},{"start":10536.28,"end":10556.19,"text":"我們非常嚴厲的譴責我們不想要看到這樣的狀況一再發生當然作為民意代表我們只能譴責我們更呼籲國防部要捍衛中華民國但是我們想請問一下目前天然氣大概只有10到14天的安全存量未來假設遇到天然氣被封鎖怎麼辦目前有沒有準備備援的措施"},{"start":10559.546,"end":10584.105,"text":"我們現在是有定定安全存量那目前是11天但是未來我們還會再增加到14天是對就剛剛我講的10到14天是那這就是我們現在要增加安全存量那我們現在也在提升我們現在的一個這個接收站跟我們的一個除草對所以你打算把10到14天變成10到18天或者是10到20天你的目標對吧"},{"start":10585.938,"end":10597.629,"text":"當然是提高這個安全存量是一件事情另外一件事情就是我們必須去尋找綠色通道能夠在這個緊急危機的時候能夠有適當的部分來做相關的一個輸運所以是說綠能補上是嗎"},{"start":10601.853,"end":10626.63,"text":"如果以我們2050的一個淨零碳排的一個這個發展來看我們未來在2050的一個再生能源會佔比到60到70%確實是會來增加我們綠能的一個這個發展好那看起來就是沒有很具體的備援措施因為10到14天不管10到20天那它如果安全封鎖它如果天然氣的封鎖到將近20天我們還是無解所以我想這個部分"},{"start":10627.23,"end":10643.338,"text":"我想這絕對不是我第一次詢問也不是我這個立法委員發現很多的立委都在關心我想經濟部應該好好考量這個問題而淨零排放是我國最重要的一個政策目前惡霧戰爭的狀況導致天然氣供需失衡許多國家包括美英日加拿大等國"},{"start":10644.759,"end":10666.719,"text":"分分考慮重啟核電國際將綠能政策分為兩塊一個是再生能源搭配天然氣另一個是可再生能源搭配核電國際能源總署也指出會達成全球淨台淨零碳排未來20年核電的規模將擴大接近一倍以上的數據對吧你有掌握到這樣的數據嗎"},{"start":10668.803,"end":10696.474,"text":"我剛剛在報告裡面有提到說未來的一個核電的占比在2030年到2050年整個發電占比大概是10%跟8%左右那委員的資訊我想我們會再做更進一步的一個掌握我想相關媒體的報導我們僅供參考但是教學相長我們希望就是台灣更好但是我想很多的前面的委員應該有問過有沒有重新評估台灣的能源政策的一個配比這是我們最重要的一個議題"},{"start":10697.594,"end":10715.883,"text":"但我沒有讓你現在馬上回答我好好地考量但國際對反核的態度突然的轉變喔可以從這個阿聯酋共識各國對核能的表態看得很清楚阿聯酋共識有提到加速零碳排及低碳排的一個技術包含再生能源核能碳減少"},{"start":10716.323,"end":10718.185,"text":"何安慧主委有聽出端倪嗎?是的"},{"start":10735.612,"end":10753.921,"text":"有嗎加速零碳排及低碳排的一個技術其中包含的就是核能另外芬蘭的氣候環境部長在這一次的會議中也有提到如果要讓地球增溫控制在1.5度C以內不提升核能的地位是做不到的您認同他這句話嗎"},{"start":10755.246,"end":10772.525,"text":"跟委員講那個我的報告裡面其實有詳述了這兩個區塊的一些論述那麼其實各個能源各個國家他都有自身的考量那麼這個部分我想是國家的能源政策他是一種選擇"},{"start":10774.727,"end":10789.457,"text":"我想每一個能源政策都有它的利與弊但是我們不要輕重於任何一個能源這應該是你可以認同的吧而是各個都有一些相關的部署雞蛋不要放在同一個籃子"},{"start":10790.498,"end":10807.51,"text":"那另外22個大國包括美日韓都簽署了2050年前增加核能到3倍請問主委我們台灣的政策目前還在非核債源嗎依照國際的局勢台灣現在如何非核淨零碳排又該如何完成主委經濟部長次長請問能夠回答嗎"},{"start":10814.099,"end":10815.441,"text":"提到說我們在未來2050的時候我們希望"},{"start":10829.279,"end":10831.26,"text":"就次長了解2025年的這個能源轉型有達到當時蔡英文所提出的目標嗎?"},{"start":10846.845,"end":10867.123,"text":"我們推估2022我們再生能源的發電佔比應該會達到15%以上那但是設置量設置量是會完成那我們可能會在2026年達到20%的這個發電量那當時他所設定的目標你還記得嗎我知道我們積極的努力希望能夠做到但是看起來積極的努力希望能夠做到但看起來就是還有一段距離嘛"},{"start":10868.803,"end":10882.888,"text":"我們沒有要攻擊沒有要批評我們就數據上來看嘛積極的努力盡量去達到那我問的問題就是目前就是沒有達到還有一段距離嘛對不對那我們可以再努力嘛所以"},{"start":10883.228,"end":10885.189,"text":"最近對岸有成立了一個山東石島灣核電廠你們有掌握嗎?好台電"},{"start":10912.793,"end":10941.796,"text":"他那個高溫氣冷室高溫氣冷室對吧我想和主委分享一下其實台灣早就有類似這樣的報告台灣在2016年率隊出國參加第20屆的太平洋盆地國際核能會議當中出國的報告清楚指出高溫氣冷室的反應爐燃料在失去冷卻劑後表面最高溫度可遠低於安全值安全限值的1620度C所以報告的結論就是基本上排除了爐心"},{"start":10942.176,"end":10942.316,"text":"主委．"},{"start":10962.887,"end":10972.762,"text":"這個部分我還要去了解一下我找機會來看一下這個報告這是我們先掌握相關資料我想會後如果有任何的興趣我們可以再一起相互討論謝謝你 謝謝"},{"start":10977.674,"end":10993.042,"text":"好 謝謝兩位 謝謝羅委員接下來賴世寶委員 賴世寶委員 賴世寶委員 牛許廷委員 牛許廷委員 牛許廷委員鄭振前委員 鄭振前委員 鄭振前委員 張家俊委員主席我想請主委好 我們請陳主委"},{"start":11010.826,"end":11015.187,"text":"陳主委要不要啟用核電是經濟部的責任那管理核電廠安全的是核安會的職責新內閣上任之後經濟部長郭志輝說核能是乾淨能源上任後一定會重新盤整國發會的主委今天"},{"start":11029.992,"end":11048.439,"text":"劉靜卿他也說不排斥重啟核能顯然我們現在整個經濟發展相關的部會都認同重啟核能先請教主委請問核安會有沒有收到指示對於核三甚至核二在研議做出砂盤推演呢沒有"},{"start":11050.351,"end":11071.726,"text":"沒有?完全沒有?那為什麼沒有做呢?核安會負責核能安全總不能到了事情發生了才開始做主委是不是能夠督促會內對核電延役的議題做出推演跟結論呢?那個跟張委員報告我剛才講沒有是說上面沒有交代我改變"},{"start":11076.989,"end":11091.725,"text":"這是我們會的工作所以這個部分沒有任何疑義是那所以呢本席在這裡要求你們就是說你們做的業務報告跟簡報不要每一次都是很空泛的內容是不是能夠"},{"start":11093.607,"end":11112.434,"text":"更仔細呢因為呢我記得等一下我來就是我記得那時候12年的時候2012年和安會有要求台電做出啟動同行審查peer review是否需要再做耐震補強要到報告出爐了才可以來評估嘛但是從2012年到現在多久了"},{"start":11120.817,"end":11123.638,"text":"十二年了十二年了請問核安會收到台電的這份報告了嗎現在那個台電還在進行國外同行的審查十二年了欸這個時間都可以讀兩個博士學位四個博士學位了台電竟然做不出一個報告做到核電廠都要退役光了我們社會能夠接受"},{"start":11144.308,"end":11145.17,"text":"一份報告這麼久嗎?和安會的主委你要為台電背書嗎?這一份報告12年你能夠接受嗎?"},{"start":11153.995,"end":11177.525,"text":"張委員報告齁那個這個審查的review齁其實是很嚴謹然後是是非常嚴謹做到這個核電廠全部都要退役了還做不出來那我在問主委安全是第一優先問題那我相信核安會也會審慎評估我想要請教主委喔很多歐美國家他們的核電廠年限都是50年60年請問"},{"start":11181.647,"end":11206.081,"text":"核安會主委你覺得我們現行的核電廠壽命是否可能延長我的理解所有的核電廠他的剛開始的執照運轉期限都是40年所以你是沒有辦法沒有辦法就是他必須經過這個研議的手續安全的檢查"},{"start":11207.543,"end":11227.713,"text":"所以你覺得說如果假設假設說包括 核四他其實沒有實際運轉過那一直都只有片面政府對外公佈的消息無法服眾和安會是不是能夠考慮開放核市場供媒體專家民意代表一般民眾實際參觀讓核四的狀況公開透明讓民意再度決定說核市場是否足夠安全"},{"start":11238.724,"end":11243.266,"text":"市長,如果假設讓核四提供專家媒體甚至民意代表去參觀然後公開透明讓大家去理解核四現在的狀態,市長同意嗎?"},{"start":11267.003,"end":11281.664,"text":"我們事實上過去都有安排或者是接受大家的一個這個來看那如果事實上要我們去做這樣的一個評估我想台電可以願意來做這個評估台電也OK嘛對不對所以這個我想競速是不是來安排"},{"start":11282.345,"end":11286.087,"text":"目前有關於核電廠延役的問題本席很清楚河安會跟台電主要的說法是認為核電廠內濕式的儲存槽已經不敷使用那乾式的儲存槽的興建又很多阻礙本席提一個見解你們三位專家都在這裡就是我們現行的核電廠純核廢料"},{"start":11307.608,"end":11312.787,"text":"有沒有可能在核四暫存呢?核四現在的儲存槽應該是空的吧?"},{"start":11316.12,"end":11338.085,"text":"目前來講委員這個建議其實會遇到三個問題第一個問題大概就是說我必須要管制單位同意第二個還要新北市政府同意第三個還要當地居民同意另外還有一個就是所有的安全分析呢因為當初在核四建廠的時候呢並沒有並沒有所謂去存核一核二的幹事的這個這個"},{"start":11339.005,"end":11343.549,"text":"那你們可不可以做相關的評估呢先做評估出來大家才一起來想辦法克服問題嘛因為電力的問題是影響我們國家經濟發展甚至我們國家人民生活品質非常重要的一環所以也希望今天三位這個主委也在次長也在還有副總也在是不是大家一起共同來努力解決這個問題謝謝"},{"start":11368.035,"end":11372.039,"text":"好 謝謝張委員接下來我們請陳培宇委員好謝謝主席那有請主委還有經濟部次長謝謝好我們請主委跟次長謝謝"},{"start":11388.212,"end":11411.728,"text":"陳委員好好主委早安次長早安我們就直接切入重點時間有限那主委我想要直接請教您核安會是三級獨立機構對吧好那所以你們最重要的工作就是要確保臺灣的核能輻射還有放射性物料的安全所以如果我說沒有核安就沒有核電延役這句話是否成立"},{"start":11412.435,"end":11441.192,"text":"完全正確好那我們要如何讓國人理解這個概念所謂的安全我們到底在意的最在意的是什麼就是要我們要把所有的程序走完合乎法令那麼我們按照所有的法規的規範去做整密的研析那麼我們核安會會在每一個階段來做完全的把關"},{"start":11442.807,"end":11469.267,"text":"好 這個把關的部分如果是交由核安會所以我想核安會會一再的為國人把關相關核安的安全對嗎好 我想這個部分國人對於核安會的期待非常非常的明顯非常非常的重要所以我們來看一下如果用這個角度往下來看呢關於目前核電的使用還有核電廠延役的問題我們一直認為不能只是如同很多在野黨委員所說的從單一國家的案例來看例如說"},{"start":11470.828,"end":11474.45,"text":"每一個國家的國土樣態人民組成產業發展狀態完全不一樣所以如果單獨只有從單一個國家來看我們可能會遇到什麼樣論辯上的風險可不可以請主委回答一下"},{"start":11485.424,"end":11508.141,"text":"我想每一個國家都有自己能源的考量那麼我們在報告裡面花了很多時間來論述這個整個世界各個國家的趨勢跟他的想法那麼能源政策我想還是由經濟部就統一就國家的未來的考量來做統一的說明跟決策"},{"start":11508.641,"end":11533.854,"text":"好 那我們等一下會請次長回答可是我們來看一下在2023世界核能產業現況報告裡面就說全球的核電發電量出現10年來的最大跌幅占比也下跌到40年以來的新低甚至在2022年全球核電發電量相較於2021年還下降了4%甚至可以看出這是自福島核災以來最大的降幅"},{"start":11534.874,"end":11562.182,"text":"請問主委跟次長你們對於全球核電使用占比出現新低你們認為有什麼樣的背景因素導致於全球核電發電量的下降跟使用占比也創下新低謝謝委員我想這個部分可能就是有些機組這個除以了嘛那可能有些新的機組沒有上來我想主要的原因可能就是來自於這個機組的一個這個新舊之間的替換這個是其他國家的現況還是台灣的現況"},{"start":11564.53,"end":11585.835,"text":"您剛剛請教的部分就是全球的情形那我剛剛報告裡面有看到說有很多機組都是停業下來有些新建的機組還在新建中那我想可能是因為這個原因吧我個人推估好這是您個人推估但是我們有另外一個數據跟您分享我們來看下一頁在2023年世界核能產業現況報告裡面看到另外一個重要的資訊除了核電量往下降之外"},{"start":11586.235,"end":11597.038,"text":"重點是非水利的再生能源發電逐漸上升甚至相較於核電它是逐年上升甚至在2021年相關太陽光電還有風電的總發電量超過核電到了2022年相較核電發電量還高出將近30%來到28%相關的負載率已經有顯著提升"},{"start":11607.84,"end":11632.694,"text":"甚至我們在看國際能源總屬還預測在2025年再生能源將超越燃煤成為全球最主要的動力來源也就是說所有這些再生能源發電逐年上升加上核電逐年下降這個綜合起來看你們認為我想請經濟部回答這樣的國際趨勢是不是在經濟部的相關能源政策裡面是有確實掌握到的"},{"start":11633.784,"end":11650.411,"text":"我們所知道的部分就是全球現在是邁向2050近零碳排綠能還是一個很重要的邁向2050近零碳排的主要的一個這個解決的方案那這樣的方案對於台灣的產業發展有什麼樣的好處尤其是台灣有大量的出口產業"},{"start":11651.482,"end":11673.785,"text":"我想它有直接的跟間接的一個好處直接的部分當然是我們對綠能不僅僅提供低碳無碳的能源而能帶起新興的產業比如說綠能有相關的新興產業另外一個間接的部分就是說我們用到綠能的產業他們也可以更多的無碳的能源來拓展國際的市場"},{"start":11675.026,"end":11678.348,"text":"這樣的市場對於台灣出口產業確實是有很大幫助在國際趨勢底下我們來看每次只要講到國際趨勢就有很多國際資訊會被誤用往下看下一個在去年12月COBR28大會期間各國對於能源使用有些討論在場外有美國我說的是場外美國有22個擁核國家說2050年核能發電量會增加三倍"},{"start":11698.78,"end":11701.941,"text":"可是我們如果仔細去看那個內文會發現其實這不是當時會議的正式決議事實上正式的大會結論是說歐盟還有118個國家將發起再生能源和能源效率全球承諾要在2030年"},{"start":11717.145,"end":11733.384,"text":"把全球再生能源容量增為三倍全球平均能源效率提高率增為兩倍所以關於再生能源的承諾跟大家願意去實踐去努力去規劃這應該才是全球共識吧這邊可不可以請次長回答一下也跟大家做個說明"},{"start":11735.225,"end":11757.458,"text":"我剛剛在報告裡面有提到說我們有看到國際的能源總署推估核能的發電占比在2030年是10%2050年是8%那我們是依照這個國際在統計資料來做一個說明這樣子那這個說明之外我們在協助國內產業應該也是往這個方向去規劃你們的能源政策對嗎目前我們都是積極的發展我們的再生能源"},{"start":11758.378,"end":11775.162,"text":"這個部分我們也希望經濟部或者是經濟部站在協助產業的角度還有核安會站在為國人安全把關的情況下我們持續往這裡努力那我時間有限我們來看下一個那次長請回謝謝我們來看一下關於這個游離輻射的事情我們辦公室一直有跟核安會這邊討論過關於游離輻射防護法修正的進度對嗎主委您有意向嗎"},{"start":11780.903,"end":11809.337,"text":"相關法規的修正進度其實很重要是關於醫療從業人員他們的劑量管制的問題那我們知道你們對相關醫療從業人員作業投入關注可是因為他們工作頻繁接觸到這些放射線需要積極的管制所以這邊我們會拜託核安會要積極更注意可是我們來往下看之前媒體有報導雙核醫院影像醫學部懷孕女醫師移遭職場霸凌強迫連續上班32個小時而且暴露在游離輻射環境工作"},{"start":11809.917,"end":11830.284,"text":"這個事件核安會清楚嗎?清楚好 那我們辦公室跟核安會服防組還有勞動部職安署所知我們發現有一個框框這邊我特別框起來主委請您看一下相關的資料顯示出來勞工健檢目前有第三級的情況請問主委您可以說明一下什麼是所謂的第三級嗎還是我來說好了您說好了"},{"start":11836.536,"end":11845.64,"text":"每年的一個核能體檢的裡頭都會去做一個工作上的一些健康的識別度那這個是由專業的醫生來去做的"},{"start":11851.134,"end":11862.884,"text":"你剛剛講的聽起來好像沒有什麼可是我來念給你聽在你們說明當中你們說特殊健康檢查或是健康追蹤檢查結果部分或全部項目異常經過醫師綜合判定為異常而無法確定此異常與工作之相關性應該進一步請職業醫學科專科醫師評估換言之不能排除身體健檢異常與工作無關而且實務上要留意跟追蹤為什麼我剛剛說這一位醫師"},{"start":11879.717,"end":11888.864,"text":"他的工作情況跟游離輻射我們這邊認為如果特殊見解的結果是第三級的管理機制那這邊核安會是不是應該有更積極的相關追蹤"},{"start":11891.071,"end":11917.82,"text":"我們核安會都有去介入那目前你們追蹤的進度關於這個個案或者是其他的案例這部分我們會是其他的相關工作人員對我們會再去就是再去要求我們的設施經營者也就是雇主要必須要對他的一個健康來去做一個一個追蹤然後如果是有有跟職業有關係的那就會去調整所謂的一些一些相關的一個輻射作業"},{"start":11918.12,"end":11920.582,"text":"接下來吳村成委員吳村成委員吳村成委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員張志倫委員好謝謝 咨詢時間4分鐘 謝謝"},{"start":11952.674,"end":11977.642,"text":"好謝謝主席各位官員各位委員大家早安好師傅有請這個我們核安會的陳主委好我們核安會陳主委謝謝張委員好主委好先請教你今天在討論這個核能安全跟我們未來台灣的核能的政策我想先請教你這個核能是不是綠能"},{"start":11979.52,"end":12003.975,"text":"核能不是綠能核能不是綠能為什麼不是綠能為什麼不是綠能 國外很多國家都是認為它是綠能 可不可以解答為什麼不是綠能核能是低碳能源 但是它不是綠能 因為它不是renewable那歐盟不是認定說它是綠能嗎 那主委你是用哪裡的資訊說它是低碳的不是綠能"},{"start":12007.688,"end":12008.188,"text":"再生能源才是綠能的一部分"},{"start":12028.939,"end":12051.82,"text":"我相信主委解釋本席現在是不太能接受啦因為歐洲都認為核能是綠能所以未來將我們台灣要這個減塵減碳以及排放碳稅這些東西都會相關的影響所以當然我希望說主委要為自己的話語來負責那如果核能不是綠能那請問主委核四要不要重啟"},{"start":12055.635,"end":12061.908,"text":"這個能源政策我想是應該請經濟部來回答我們是安全管制機關是不是請經濟部來協助來幫忙一下"},{"start":12067.196,"end":12095.504,"text":"好 謝謝經濟部我們金秘委員剛剛垂詢核四的問題核四是公投沒有通過所以核四是現在就是啟動好 謝謝那感謝經濟部的回答那剛剛這個主委說不是綠能那另外一個說公投沒有過所以還沒辦法重啟那我請教一下現在這個在經濟部上面我們的核四它整個營造的費用是多少錢"},{"start":12097.148,"end":12119.117,"text":"建設到現在的費用是多少錢?2838億2838億如果核委會的主委認為不是綠能另外的我們的經濟部認為他沒辦法重啟那以台電的角度以財快的角度來講這2800多億是不是通通應該打給費用?"},{"start":12121.59,"end":12142.298,"text":"因為他已經不算是我們一般人認定的資產資產的定義跟這個台電報告就是他是一個可以使用未來可以產生經濟效益的東西請問一個資產2800多億沒有辦法產生大家都否定的情況下請問台電什麼時候要把這個資產打給費用請回答"},{"start":12145.071,"end":12150.662,"text":"因為20212011公投沒有通過所以他不重啟那如果不重啟是不是就該打成非?你認為他是資產嗎?"},{"start":12152.281,"end":12172.246,"text":"所以經濟部跟台電公司必須提出一個轉型的計畫根據這個轉型計畫去替代原先的所謂的核四的工程計畫以後那麼會整個盤點哪些資產是可以再回收再使用的比如說像建物或者是其他的設備但請問現在統計出來了嗎就2800億而言經濟部請問經濟部統計出來哪些可以回收的錢是多少錢"},{"start":12178.488,"end":12194.146,"text":"目前來講必須要等到那個轉型計劃到時候我們要抱怨同意以後才會發表展型計劃已經申請多久了請問一下目前來講還沒有向院申請已經有計劃了嗎我們只是一個一個初步初步研究多久了初步"},{"start":12195.448,"end":12213.906,"text":"大概從202121應該是差不多一年的時間左右所以我覺得今天開這個會我非常不能接受就是三個部門有點互相推後鼻球那我來請教一下還有一個非常重的重點請問核四的燃料棒現在在哪裡現在在美國請問核四送到美國去的"},{"start":12215.236,"end":12243.689,"text":"應該是2022的3月2022的3月現在已經2024年的5月了所以我本席要提出來的是說當時是誰下這個命令把核四的燃料棒運送出去從燃料棒運送出去了以後發現賣不掉改成燃料碗現在每年還要負擔非常高額的保存費請問台電這邊有沒有預計什麼時候賣到底還要請問一下這個燃料棒當時買多少錢我們每年要交給美國管理費是多少錢"},{"start":12246.171,"end":12269.51,"text":"這個應該不是說誰決策因為我們是依據當時立法院2018年1月的決議必須當時必須要把這個燃料運到國外另外一個廠家有進行一個評估就是說即使即使即使核是重啟他現在的燃料你也沒辦法再使用因為那一塊是屬於一個舊型的燃料所以整個燃料的使用必須要再重新再評估才有可能"},{"start":12270.168,"end":12296.169,"text":"好 所以這就是本席非常不能接受的從2021年我們核是就是送出去說要賣給國外的這個燃料棒後來賣不出去改成燃料丸中間不管是印製費用當時購買的錢而且當時我記得當時政府單位是說可以賣很高的價錢所以才同意把它送出去所以當時這一塊我你沒有提到可是當時是認為可以賣高價才可以賣出去結果想不到滯銷"},{"start":12297.47,"end":12313.911,"text":"至少以後把它換成燃料棒換成燃料碗然後現在還是賣不出去每年還要保管費還要非常大的金額所以我覺得這是非常不能接受所以我認為今天本席來這邊我認為三個這個我們政府單位都應該要好好來"},{"start":12315.192,"end":12316.993,"text":"拜託我們一起來關心不要浪費我們的民間納稅錢以上 謝謝"},{"start":12347.916,"end":12353.844,"text":"林柱英委員羅明財委員林倩琦委員"},{"start":12375.238,"end":12387.713,"text":"謝謝主席我們請原能會主委還有次長然後能源署是不是今天的代表是副署長"},{"start":12389.498,"end":12390.479,"text":"提前部署小型核電發展核能安全配套措施"},{"start":12411.118,"end":12411.458,"text":"第二 藍雲核廢料存廢遷移他處的可能性評估"},{"start":12429.602,"end":12431.582,"text":"第3個部分是核安人員的部分那我們知道這個核安其實很重要的在"},{"start":12456.732,"end":12456.892,"text":"委員會主任"},{"start":12471.423,"end":12473.285,"text":"在人員的這個部分會內怎麼樣協同相關單位來處理能力不足的這個區塊"},{"start":12500.506,"end":12528,"text":"如果有必要本席這邊可以協助但是這必須是一個議題來探討所以這個有關於這個監控人員不足的這個區塊還有你們在各地分部對核安監控的輻射輻射監控的這個人員這部分我想請會內這邊不知道現在有沒有相關的這個計畫在處理那待會給我簡單的一個回應好不好這個是先對主委的這個部分"},{"start":12529.622,"end":12537.898,"text":"接下來就是大家都很關心的這個能源的相關議題那我知道其實這個核能不等於"},{"start":12539.093,"end":12558.307,"text":"只有發電了那我是不是可以請這個經濟部這邊就您或者是這個能源署可以跟我們做一個解釋簡單的解釋啦那以目前來講大家不太沒有辦法社會大陸沒有辦法搞得很清楚我們這些專業的詞語但是專業的詞語呢被很簡單的運用也會搞得"},{"start":12563.171,"end":12571.745,"text":"這個整個社會大眾搞不清楚所以可不可以很簡單的就您非常確切的這個講法可以告訴我們什麼叫再生能源嗎以你們的定義就你們現在處理的業務跟定義好不好"},{"start":12579.573,"end":12597.972,"text":"主要再生能源是以天然的環境因素所產生的能源目前為主大概主要是以風力跟太陽能為主的比較成熟型的再生能源為主未來可能包括地熱這個部分的發展"},{"start":12601.581,"end":12608.665,"text":"謝謝,你們現在是風力,太陽能跟地熱那可以告訴本席這個部分是未來跟電力直接關係的嗎?"},{"start":12609.771,"end":12630.12,"text":"是,我們現在的那個太陽光電就直接發電使用那風力發電的話包括這個離岸或陸域都是直接供應這個發電使用那未來地熱也是發電使用好的那以目前來講你這講的這三種那各佔了多少發電的比例目前我們國內的再生能源大概去年的發電佔比是9.5%其他的是"},{"start":12634.315,"end":12661.045,"text":"其實它包括我們的抽蓄水利啊昨天五以外還包括抽蓄水利就對了我剛剛講的是去年我們的再生能源的占比是占我們發電的總量的9.5%那這包括太陽光電就您剛才講的嘛這個風力發電太陽光電地熱地熱還有包括那個剩下的90%大概是水利水利水利對90%都是水利嘛水利對還有那個對水利為主沒有火力就對了"},{"start":12662.245,"end":12673.971,"text":"我剛剛講是再生能源那當然我們全部的能源所以你現在水利是在再生能源裡面還是是是是OK水利也是再生能源那另外90%你那9.5嘛那90.5%是什麼那就是我們現在的火力發電像藍煤大概佔42%去年那燃氣燒天然氣佔40%所以火力是12%嘛對然後核能還有佔6.3%核能佔6.3%嘛"},{"start":12692.185,"end":12709.135,"text":"那各位可以知道這個核能的比例是非常低的嘛那依據本席所知道那應該核能不等於只有發電的功能嘛對不對還是核能是完全供應給電力使用沒有錯但是我們所有的發電不是只有核能是是是所以以這些比例上來講那"},{"start":12711.412,"end":12726.268,"text":"這個可能就關係到主委的這個有關的安全性所以您是也是在地震偵查的一個專業所以那依據本席的了解那如果有核安的問題以目前的這個核能電廠雖然全世界發生了好幾個這個核安的事件"},{"start":12726.829,"end":12729.511,"text":"主委您可以告訴我目前在這個部分的評估"},{"start":12742.793,"end":12770.65,"text":"這個部分是我們的核心主要是臺灣畢竟是地震頻繁還好我們做了很多的措施剛開始在設計的時候它就有一定的耐震的標準我們大概在2007年有一個緊急自動安全的關閉的裝置後續我們又做了很多次的補強"},{"start":12771.71,"end":12793.605,"text":"那包含這個311之後那麼我們要求這個台電公司做Shake Level 3那我想剩下最後一里路啦因為這個國外的同行審查那麼我們會裡面會來做這一方面的把關那麼如果有必要再做補強那麼我們也會要求台電來做這一方面的補強以上"},{"start":12795.166,"end":12805.995,"text":"好的謝謝那不好意思那你們那個先前有溝通過跟台電齁有溝通過這個部分的補強嗎台電可以回應一下嗎就是園能會這邊跟你們處理了這相關的補強那你們目前的這個業務在補強的這個區塊是做的怎麼樣"},{"start":12812.802,"end":12836.016,"text":"大概初步的補強我們大概做了相關的補強工作各位委員報告其實它這個總共有三個階段第一個階段大概就是把所有的地質做調查包括所有的核電廠附近的地質做調查那一部分我們大概就花了4年到5年還有一個美國專家跟國內專家組成一個平台大家互相去定出一個所謂的地震力"},{"start":12836.876,"end":12842.297,"text":"第二階段大概就是核安會要求我們做初步的耐震補強耐震補強我們大概做完了也送給他了第三階段就在算什麼算風險度的評估也算機率爐心熔毀的這個機率目前這部分我們"},{"start":12859.562,"end":12859.902,"text":"總共有三個階段"},{"start":12884.345,"end":12910.659,"text":"這個部分請問什麼時候會做好?最後那個階段大概同樣審查核三我們大概到年底那核二的部分大概會到大概明年的年初那可不可以請你們針對這個部分來給本席一個專案報告那相關的資料也給本席那那個核安會不好意思那個今天這三項就麻煩主委是不是把你們目前在處理的相關進度"},{"start":12911.639,"end":12932.314,"text":"還有包括您說那個國外比如美國目前做到一半或者是做到多少%進度台灣目前做到多少那全世界我今天整個質詢沒有聽到全世界目前怎麼做我再把相關的資料送給委員辦公室所以那個台電就麻煩你這個部分給我相關的給我一個專案報告好嗎謝謝好 謝謝接下來羅志強委員"},{"start":12947.065,"end":12953.987,"text":"主席有請那個核安會主委還有經濟部次長好我們請主委跟次長謝謝羅委員好請教主委蔡英文總統要在2025年要把核能歸零目前這個目標還是沒改變嗎"},{"start":12972.811,"end":12987.867,"text":"是的,我想跟委員稍微說明一下,核安會是能源安全的主管機關市長,核能歸零目前這個目標沒變吧?是,我們現在是以這樣的一個在處理"},{"start":12990.253,"end":13006.512,"text":"那所以那個核能要歸零他有幾個成功要件對不對蔡英文總統的能源配比當中要把核能歸零那主要是他在再生能源的配比他希望2025達到多少百分之二十的發電打到了嗎"},{"start":13007.843,"end":13017.967,"text":"目前我們推估大概有差距現在是9.6%發電的9.5%今年大概會到13%我們推估後年就2025年大概會到15%超過15%目前還在做掌握當中所以就短缺個5%嘛那拿什麼補"},{"start":13031.884,"end":13058.41,"text":"這還是先順著理想狀態啦我們現在次長答應明年的再生能源是到15%嘛 對不對我們對推估到15那明年我們再來檢驗有沒有到15因為蔡英文說20嘛可見現在已經打了七五折了嘛打了七五折那再看看明年是不是要再繼續打折那請問那5%的部分怎麼補啊"},{"start":13061.796,"end":13074.495,"text":"我想我們的電力供應基本上是還有其他的一個燃煤或燃氣的一個基礎就火力嘛不是燃煤就燃氣嘛還有別的選項嗎目前大概就是這樣"},{"start":13076.181,"end":13097.559,"text":"所以為什麼說今天齁賴清德總統說大家都需要供電穩定所以要推動二次能源轉型發展多元綠能智慧電網強化電力系統的韌性那他也提了一個比蔡英文總統更宏偉的目標他說2030年欸2030年現在只差6年對不對他的目標是什麼再次能源要達到多少你知道嗎市長我說賴清德總統的承諾"},{"start":13106.176,"end":13129.308,"text":"這個部分抱歉我不清楚我們總統的承諾還是要記住啦百分之三十請問次長做得到嗎你到明年我們蔡英文在提出這個在當選的時候他說要這個戰勝能源到20%可是在當時馬政府的結束的時候戰勝能源是多少不到5%將近5%啦"},{"start":13134.252,"end":13158.687,"text":"因為我是在馬政府工作過,將近5啦那結果從2016年到現在8年你也只到9%,9%嘛對不對,大概將近5啦所以換言之8年多5%現在剩下6年你要從10變30要多20%來,請問部長我們有什麼通天本理要做到這件事情"},{"start":13160.132,"end":13184.84,"text":"我想這個從技術端專業端的分析我跟委員報告我們這幾年綠能增加很多但是我們另外一個我知道增加很多那我們另外一個無碳的能源就是核能下來所以部長你也很有信心2030年可以到30%是不是是因為我們非常謝謝部長我肯定你的信心而且我不是部長不好意思次長我很肯定你的信心"},{"start":13186.6,"end":13199.949,"text":"希望不要你的信心跟蔡英文總統一樣打七五折到時候那接下來我就要問到底現在我們對於這個核能的政策態度是如何因為"},{"start":13200.902,"end":13223.709,"text":"郭志輝我們的部長之前他說對於核能議題他跟國發會主委昨天國發會主委也跟媒體聚會時已經說表態如果朝野對核能重啓有共識他個人並不排斥所以經濟部到底現在態度是什麼核能要不要重啓核二核三要不要延役態度是什麼"},{"start":13224.744,"end":13251.733,"text":"我們很明確有三個很重要的原則就是不缺電嘛不是 首要是核能安全要確保另外一個部分就是核廢料的處理要有妥適的一個解決方案那當然另外社會共識也是那核能安全現在有把握嗎這可能我們按照核能安全是按照相關的規範在進行中市長 你是主管機關你都答不出答案這事實上還誰能幫你答答案啊台電誰主管的啊"},{"start":13253.199,"end":13282.314,"text":"所以現在就應該知道核能安全這個條件做不做得到啊當然一定做到因為我們的監管很好所以第一個做到第二是什麼核廢料核廢料做不做得到目前目前有很複雜困難的問題第三個是什麼社會的共識社會的共識嘛前兩項其實至少第一項操作在你嘛你認為做得到對不對我們一定要做到一定要做到非常好謝謝你啦也還馬政府或還台電的公道啦"},{"start":13283.462,"end":13300.389,"text":"那麼多年的非核家園的認證的重點核心就是認為你做不到核能安全不是嗎謝謝你還了公道所以我是說句實在話百走八年冤枉路了搞了半天回頭現在要重新來檢討核能但沒有關係亡羊補牢時猶未晚"},{"start":13301.149,"end":13319.565,"text":"我支持今天我們戴清德總統跟政府正式能源問題重新正式重啓核能的問題包括核二三延役的問題有困難如果正式下定次長是不是就去解決他如果啦如果啦我說過我們現在按照相關的規定在做處理那現在相關的規定"},{"start":13320.666,"end":13334.824,"text":"其實我跟你講如果賴清澤總下令你也不用什麼按照相當規定的你也得使命必達嘛 對不對所以我就等賴清澤總一聲令下號令大軍轉彎啦!核電重啟啦!我等著賴清澤宣布謝謝以上"},{"start":13338,"end":13338.501,"text":"蔡易瑜委員楊瓊英委員"},{"start":13352.039,"end":13381.278,"text":"好那今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢另外有吳村城委員、楊瓊瑜委員、翁小林委員提出書面的質詢那對於今天的會議我們做以下的決定報告還有詢答完畢委員所提的書面質詢或是相關的資料我們列入記錄並且刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或為其答覆的部分請相關機關盡數以書面來做答覆那報告委員會今天議程處理完畢"},{"start":13381.878,"end":13383.5,"text":"我們現在散會謝謝各位"},{"start":13413.827,"end":13417.428,"text":"獲得全球核能發電趨勢及新型核能成為永續能源之規劃。"},{"start":13444.3,"end":13445.221,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":13482.826,"end":13483.147,"text":"本期視頻到此為止。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}