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調整我們瓦斯價 調整我們水位 你的辦法我看只有這樣而已啦不一定啦 不一定齁 我有七個垢面啦 可以來協助他們那你趕快提一個報告 不然我現在每天都心不安慰 就要整天說 哎喲 水電要去啦 我要安裝什麼"},{"start":208.346,"end":221.017,"text":"這齁,這我很怕是這樣啦我也很怕三人成虎,不一樣的事情說到變成這樣你常常不一樣的事情跟我們說到不一樣,害我們有時候要替你辯護都很困難是,謝謝委員,一定要替我辯護啦你剛剛說補錢兩千億,你們的執政黨的立委在回答問題你都微笑"},{"start":228.664,"end":248.24,"text":"在結黨回答問題裡面的第一件事你說兩千億為什麼要補貼兩千億你說要五十億歷史我教你 我不理你轉角你就五十億歷史來 國庫來補貼不要搞到兩千億啊稍微想一下 頭腦稍微轉一下就會一樣啊這樣事情就改變了是 謝謝委員"},{"start":252.603,"end":259.998,"text":"好不好 你用這個思維你跟我講嘛為了五十億的歷史 國庫保護才有 大家不會說話啦你拿兩千要出來 你知道嗎"},{"start":262.082,"end":283.96,"text":"你們現在已經國庫補貼三千億你們的電費漲價大概一千億 四千億還在拿呢啊你現在還要貼兩千億 六千億掉 難怪大家會懷疑啊我們齁 當初在COVID-19的時候 隆重是動漲影響的是六千億喔 應用的是六千億喔"},{"start":284.72,"end":300.399,"text":"我跟您說,這樣加起來,加那些太多錢,給我的政府應該有應變的技巧,不要說那些理由,替困難解決辦法,好不好?今天我回歸正題,電力修正法,"},{"start":301.48,"end":326.528,"text":"我一直那電業修正法你們來拜託我說不要啦他說是中央的政策一定要分家106年以前那個民進黨執政的時候台電那時候都是賺了大錢後就像你講的要四大分支要分開像我們國安會的留職委說要工程類地好像要做國際的公司一樣"},{"start":327.981,"end":347.153,"text":"但是啊,天有不錯的風雲,人算不如天算,你們現在起來說,啊,這樣會死的,不敢分家,不敢分割財產,不敢掠奪財產,你現在說要統一的管理,這個政策裡面,"},{"start":348.26,"end":356.063,"text":"我是覺得有諸多的問題存在其實如果賺錢 因為我很胖 準備要去賺錢現在了解了 大家心裡想要國家來負擔也有擔當的政府 不要這樣子做那你要怎麼解決這個問題"},{"start":367.367,"end":376.199,"text":"報告委員我們現在就是要修改就是說不再這個把它分割維持原來的綜合電業的這樣的一個方式您要民主該黨的所長"},{"start":382.935,"end":399.943,"text":"我每天都要喝酒,有什麼人不喝?他那個時候國際物價變動都要漲價,被罵得要死,會因為失掉掙錢,你們都不可以做,不可以去,現在要逼到台電來,人工啊,苦不堪言,沒有啦。"},{"start":404.253,"end":417.454,"text":"蔡兆偉的時候在做的話是10分鐘你不要6分鐘就站起來了我們在執行的時候你們就怕我們講多話我愛死你了邱志偉你什麼時候好朋友"},{"start":421.84,"end":440.47,"text":"第一,您高的薪酬牌,尤其吃字母的人跟我很要法,他說我們這個在野黨是真的挺何凡,我們是支持核能,幾個要件要出來,但是我要提一個問題給你看,核電最多的國家化國,美國也有,日本也有,"},{"start":441.618,"end":467.378,"text":"中國大陸也有啊你說何時人的安全站是要做到哪裡去做你們的薪資百合不能打破啦你告訴我問題絕對有辦法考慮去解決的怎麼去挖怎麼找一個卑鄙的地方補資給他們有什麼不習慣都是在找理由找藉口因為你反核一失啊這個薪資百合不容易啊掙錢不薄"},{"start":468.198,"end":482.46,"text":"你们讲的呼听口其实里面最重要的问题台湾的合同人才停了合同都被韩国抓走韩国抓走他现在已经建立他自己台湾的合同产业的人才都流失了"},{"start":484.002,"end":508.436,"text":"很嚴重那剛剛我們的召委站起來骯髒的食物狗台灣在裡面要特別特別小心尤其中小企業傳統產業會影響更大不管你到越南到哪個地方都會影響到保證要提早應用是您要做一個報告給我們好好不好這一點第一點"},{"start":512.849,"end":541.272,"text":"再來那時候張旭凱委員有問到中油跟阿拉斯加的合作你一直在講異相思異相思表示你有意願叫做異相思是哎呦保證你敢跟美國抗衡嘛450億我知道可能幾個國去參加但是最後不要去買到高的天然氣不要去投資我們只有這五這六我們低的又是高的價格"},{"start":541.952,"end":567.452,"text":"美國國債36兆,藝人的利息1兆美金,不給你騙贏了,給你抬抬了,它沒辦法解決問題,我不是反對,但是不要買到高樓,再給中油通家困擾,給台電通家困擾,臨北的介紹,變成澳洲,變成沙地那些,可以收下來,不能這樣,不能猶豫啦,你猶豫啦,"},{"start":570.954,"end":598.385,"text":"報告委員 我們從阿拉斯加買油是10天就可以到台灣是運送最短的一個距離第二個 也最安全 我們走的是太平洋這條線運送短喔 澳洲幾天 中東幾天我們賣的大陸最笨啦 你們不叫我們的國用事業車代載的高洋 代載的高洋好不好是謝謝委員知道"},{"start":599.96,"end":599.98,"text":"公說來講"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":523,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（10時35分）主席，首先有請部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["陳委員超明：部長好。剛剛接到一個消息說媒體在報導經濟部有開會討論電價，將要漲6%，部長說沒有，但是主計長剛剛在財委會裡面回答說，財政部有派員出席，但是這個會議並不是部長主持，會中提到平均調漲8%，有沒有這樣的事情？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我剛才也有在這裡跟大家報告，我沒有主持過這樣的會議，所以大家所談的……"],["陳委員超明：我了解，到底漲價多少？我曉得你沒有去主持。"],["郭部長智輝：是啊，所以可以證明說……"],["陳委員超明：我現在是要問你，你不要故意閃避。"],["郭部長智輝：不會啦！"],["陳委員超明：到底漲價多少？馬上要決定了。"],["郭部長智輝：我不知道。"],["陳委員超明：你不曉得？"],["郭部長智輝：這個我沒有辦法決定，審議委員還沒開會。"],["陳委員超明：你真的愈來愈會做官。我看報紙在寫說，民生用電要漲11%、企業用電要漲5%，現在又有6%、又有8%，要漲價你們也要早有決斷，你搞得人心惶惶，我跟你講，你這個部長要小心。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我都坦白跟你報告，我又沒有主持會議……"],["陳委員超明：你現在還不知道？"],["郭部長智輝：電價也不是我可以決定，電價是審查委員在決定的，所以你說我搞得人心惶惶，我不知道要怎麼辦，我說事實，你們說人心惶惶。"],["陳委員超明：部長，你是傑出的企業家，崇越以前是小小公司，現在變成一個大公司，但是你這個部長，手下有4家國營企業，第一個台電現在虧損累累，讓你白頭髮增加了很多；中油也是虧損累累，你又不敢講，中油被你們壓的聲音都發不出來，只有默默吃苦頭；自來水公司的時候勉強強強，還是在虧損之中，有一個基金在補助；台糖是來賣土地、租土地，勉強維生，拿出你企業家的精神這樣在做，這個國家在你這個經濟部長之下虧損累累，你有沒有什麼解決之道？簡單講一下。"],["郭部長智輝：有，我……"],["陳委員超明：調整電價、瓦斯價、水費，你的辦法我看只有這樣而已啦！"],["郭部長智輝：不一定。"],["陳委員超明：不一定喔？拭目以待啦！"],["郭部長智輝：我有7個構面可以來協助他們怎麼樣降低成本、提高效益。"],["陳委員超明：好，那你趕快提一個報告，不然我們現在每天心不安，鄉下的人說：唉唷，水電要漲了，我要怎麼辦？"],["郭部長智輝：我也很怕是這樣，三人成虎，沒有的事情說到變真的。"],["陳委員超明：沒有，你們常常沒有的事情說到變真的，我們有時候要替你辯護都很困難。"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員，一定要替我辯護。"],["陳委員超明：你剛剛說補貼2,000億，執政黨的立委在回答問題你都微笑，在野黨回答問題你面帶嚴肅。你說2,000億，為什麼要補貼2,000億？你說要50億利息。我教你，我雖然沒有你那麼專家，你就50億利息由國庫來補貼，不要搞到2,000億。頭腦稍微轉一下就會了，這樣事情就解決了。"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員超明：用這個思維，為了50億的利息，國庫補貼50億，大家不會說話，你拿2,000億出來。你知道嗎？現在國庫已經補貼3,000億，水電費漲價大概1,000億，4,000億已經給你們了，你現在還要拿2,000億，總共6,000億，難怪大家會懷疑。"],["郭部長智輝：當初在COVID-19的時候是凍漲，影響的是6,000億。"],["陳委員超明：我跟你講，這樣加一加就太多錢了！有能力的政府應該有應變的技巧，不要講那麼多理由，而是要找到解決困難的辦法。"],["郭部長智輝：是！"],["陳委員超明：好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：好！"],["陳委員超明：現在我回歸正題──電業法的修正。當初我提案，你們來拜託我說不要啦，還說中央的政策是一定要分家。106年以前民進黨執政的時候，台電都賺大錢，就像你說的，樹大分枝、要分家，也像國發會劉主委說的要攻城掠地，好像要成為國際型的公司一樣！但是天有不測風雲，人算不如天算，你們現在覺得這樣危險，因為台電虧損累累，又不敢分家、不敢分割財產、不敢掠奪財產了，所以就說要統一管理。這個政策裡面我是覺得有諸多問題存在！當時賺錢，覺得這隻羊好肥，準備要把牠殺了，現在賠錢，羊變瘦了，就說要國家來負擔。政府要有擔當一點，不應該這樣做！那你要怎麼解決這個問題？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們現在就是要修法，不再把它分割，維持原來綜合電業的方式。"],["陳委員超明：這裡面有一個問題，你們愛面子，該漲的時候不漲！大家每天都在罵馬英九，有什麼可罵的？他那個時候因為國際物價變動就漲電價，不只被罵得要死，還因此失掉政權。你們都不做、都不漲，搞到得現在台電員工苦不堪言！","時間到了嗎？沒有啦，代理主席，蔡召委當主席的話是10分鐘，你不要6分鐘就站起來了啦！唉喲，我們在質詢的時候，你們就怕我們多講話。邱志偉，你這樣怎麼是我的好朋友？"],["蔡委員易餘：他是想趕快讓我發言啦！"],["陳委員超明：你們鼓勵自己的神主牌，尤其邱志偉委員跟我很要好，他說我們在野黨是真的挺核，我們是支持核能，你們說要有幾個要件，但是我要提一個問題，核電最多的國家是法國，美國也有，日本也有，中國大陸也有，你們說有核安問題存在，其實是要做和不做而已，關鍵在你們的神主牌不能打破。你們說的那些問題絕對有辦法解決，看要怎麼找一個偏僻的地方去挖，把補助給他們，哪有什麼不能解決的！都是在找理由、找藉口，因為你們一旦失去反核意識、這個神主牌一旦沒有的話，政權就會不保。你們講得天花亂墜，其實裡面有一個最重要的問題，臺灣核能方面的人才在停用核電之後都被韓國挖走了，他們現在已經建立自己的產業，臺灣核能產業的人才都流失了，很嚴重！","剛剛主席站起來，臺灣在「骯髒的15國」裡面，要特別、特別小心，尤其中小企業、傳統產業受到的影響會更大，不管是到越南或是到哪個地方都不例外，部長，要提早因應！"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["陳委員超明：你們要提一份報告給我們，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：好。"],["陳委員超明：這是第一點。其次，張啓楷委員有問到中油和阿拉斯加的合作，你一直在講意向書，所謂意向書是表示你有意願才會叫做意向書。"],["郭部長智輝：是！"],["陳委員超明：唉喲，部長，你敢跟美國抗衡嗎？450億！我知道可能有好幾個國家都去參加了，但是最後不要買到高價的天然氣；我們的投資不要像是做牛做馬，最後還買到高價。美國國債36兆，一年的利息約1兆美金，不把你當成肥羊宰一宰是沒辦法解決問題的。我不是反對，但是不要買到高價，再給中油和台電增加困擾，如果你們能買到比澳洲、沙烏地阿拉伯便宜的價格再說，不然不要這樣啦！","你不要搖頭啦！好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們從阿拉斯加買油10天就可以到臺灣，運送距離最短；第二是也最安全，我們走的是太平洋……"],["陳委員超明：那要買得最便宜喔！"],["郭部長智輝：什麼？"],["陳委員超明：你說運送距離最短啊！"],["郭部長智輝：我們是透過……"],["陳委員超明：澳洲幾天？中東幾天？既然要買，就要看成本。不要把我們的國營事業當成待宰的羔羊，好不好？謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員指導。"],["主席（邱委員志偉代）：陳委員，講完了嗎？","謝謝。請部長回座，謝謝陳超明委員質詢，非常精彩！","下一位質詢請蔡易餘委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-4","speakers":["蔡易餘","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","陳亭妃","張嘉郡","呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","陳超明","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","陳培瑜","黃國昌","葉元之","林德福","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-24"],"gazette_id":"1143101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、行政院函請審議「電業法部分條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員賴士葆等 17 人擬具\n「電業法第七十四條條文修正草案」案；三、本院委員林岱樺等18人擬具「電業法第六條條文修\n正草案」案；四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「電業法第六條條文修正草案」案；五、本院委員\n邱議瑩等16人擬具「電業法第六條條文修正草案」案；六、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「電業法\n部分條文修正草案」案；七、本院委員鄭正鈐等19人擬具「電業法第七十四條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1143101_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}