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我請一下陳部長好 請部長"},{"start":23.19,"end":50.811,"text":"部長好部長我想這個每一次農業部都會把你們未來的工作跟過去所推動的業務都報導的非常詳細但最近有一個新聞我想還是要趁這個機會是不是讓部長來說明一下現在地方各地農會各地區的農民都非常緊張因為有國民黨的委員說配合租地種電就會喪失農保資格他說政府對於老農養套殺"},{"start":53.334,"end":61.79,"text":"那到底這件事情是不是真的同時間我們看到去年在審查預算提案的時候國民黨的馬文君委員說"},{"start":63.836,"end":82.633,"text":"農業部對種電的農民沒有取消他的農保資格但是對於其他有盈利事業登記證的農民是把他取消資格很顯然在這件事情上面就有人在造謠了到底農地種電會不會被取消資格這是一件事情"},{"start":83.772,"end":111.94,"text":"政府有沒有對老農養套殺這是另外一件事情這是第二件事情第三件事情我其實更想知道就是說在我們現在一直不斷的在推動無法耕作的這些老農他如果願意把他的農地釋出不管是去種電或者是租給青農協助青農能夠真正實質從事農業耕作但是因為你們現在配合審計部的這個調查是不是會導致"},{"start":113.82,"end":130.173,"text":"地主跟租約的這些實耕者關係惡化那這個問題要怎麼解決部長來給您時間回答好 謝謝委員我這邊還是要去強調就是整個的一個榮保的資格其實"},{"start":131.55,"end":153.222,"text":"要加入農盲都知道,他必須要有一分地,然後要實際從農。那相對的,就像剛才委員所提到的,65歲以上的老農,我們是鼓勵他把農地租給青年農民。所以在這個部分其實我們已經放寬了,他的土地就不需要再擁有0.1分地,所以他就沒有所謂的農保,因為地不夠的問題。"},{"start":154.502,"end":173.532,"text":"所以65歲以上的農民他租給人家他的農保資格不會喪失嗎即使是租給重電的也不會喪失嗎對 是都不會喪失所以這也是很清楚的一定要一定要澄清我覺得這個農業部也要去做一個澄清對 這個我想我們一定澄清就是65歲以上的老農是完全不會受到影響"},{"start":174.612,"end":198.899,"text":"這是要特別去澄清的然後第二個部分就是65歲以下的部分就誠如我剛才簡報我講的我們為了配合國家能源政策那你的土地如果租給光電業者的時候你的土地的持份如果土地的擁有不到一分地的時候我們也讓他能夠繼續擁有農保所以後續也不會對這個配合光電政策的也不會受到影響"},{"start":200.08,"end":223.714,"text":"好 部長我覺得像這些很奇怪農業的東西啊 謠言很快就會散佈然後搞到所有的農民人心惶惶我認為像這個應該農業部要很快速的回擊或者是很快速的反應但是你們現在的快速反應呢會出現一個很大的落差就是你們的預算被砍你們的宣傳預算被砍我現在要跟您談到的是"},{"start":230.256,"end":257.765,"text":"你的轄下的業務費被砍了你的預算差旅費被砍了宣傳預算也被砍了差旅費被砍很多人覺得差旅費被砍沒什麼差旅費被砍是我很在意啊為什麼因為你們要隨時下鄉啊你們要隨時下鄉不管是勘栽不管是協助農民種植你的農改廠隨時都要去協助農民做農業的技術的改良嘛你差旅費被砍"},{"start":259.205,"end":272.242,"text":"怎麼樣去幫助農民那你以後叫你這些同仁是怎麼樣走路去還是騎腳踏車去未來怎麼樣去勘栽你現在現在的天氣變化這麼大"},{"start":274.807,"end":295.839,"text":"屏東的芒果已經只開花不結果慢慢的會往上延伸會到高雄到台南是這些看災要不要看玉荷包今年去年年底的時候花開得很漂亮現在開始發現問題了只開花不結果要不要去看災怎麼去看災這個預算這樣被砍還有您剛剛講到的你的這個錢"},{"start":302.259,"end":320.434,"text":"業務費被刪了以後你們不能去申請基金的撥補基金就撥補過來他們說基金撥補過來沒問題啊可是你不能申請預備金啊去年的農損總共你申請預備金撥補多少錢去年天然災害的話撥補的將近40億撥補了40億那今年預算這樣被砍的話"},{"start":325.885,"end":340.531,"text":"你一毛錢都申請不到對 二倍金就不能一相關的預算法是不可以的按照預算法一毛錢都申請不到是那怎麼辦所以我們只能你要怎麼處理我們只能向行政院祈求風調雨順颱風永遠都不會來第一個我要還是要去擲筊"},{"start":341.704,"end":364.001,"text":"我跟委員報告就是過去委員都知道這件事情所以我們的基金公務撥補基金大概都不會被刪那這次被刪了以後真的是對二倍金影響那二倍金不能的話我們只能再看行政院有沒有其他的方面的一個基金或者是像我覺得行政院能夠救助的方法都救助了然後在經濟委員會裡頭其實我們在經濟委員會裡頭我們是沒有刪這個錢的"},{"start":367.944,"end":395.409,"text":"每一個委員在現場的委員包括國民黨的委員大家都說來自農業縣大家對農業都是支持是沒有刪這個錢的啊為什麼到了院會到了富坤崎所領導的黨團就會把這個錢刪掉那未來我們要怎麼樣協助農民去處理第三個這個錢的問題還小事啊台灣的農產品被他們說的一文不值啊"},{"start":396.721,"end":420.696,"text":"部長我給你看一個這個是民國86年的專欄報導當時的農委會說要把台灣的水果走向精品路線所以呢現在我們台灣的農民很認真很努力啊一直希望能夠把台灣的水果打向世界舞台打向國際舞台你看到人家日本細張哈蜜瓜兩顆賣300萬日元"},{"start":423.869,"end":448.256,"text":"紅葡萄一串賣160萬日元芒果兩顆賣60萬日元這是精品走向這是精品走向但是不是每一顆都是這樣賣啦對不對這個也是台灣希望有一天我們的我們的水果也是能站在日本的精品市場不是嗎是這是我們努力的目標好結果你看一下"},{"start":450.356,"end":464.121,"text":"我們外銷日本的水果銷量是成長比如說去年跟2016比我們的出口銷量是大幅增加547%可是我們的金額只有成長232%"},{"start":467.558,"end":486.388,"text":"鳳梨外銷日本9年成長了16倍總共成長了1614%但是我們的金額只增加了1469換句話說我們只有拼量沒有拼到價錢"},{"start":488.604,"end":509.694,"text":"這跟我們當時想要做的其實是相違背嘛部長 你這樣懂我的意思嗎我知道因為天災 因為天氣冷 香蕉長不出來所以香蕉價格貴還竟然被國民黨的王宏威說這是詐騙他說香蕉怎麼可以這麼貴台灣的香蕉怎麼可以這麼貴你知道 岐山的蕉農聽了內心都在淌血啊"},{"start":518.991,"end":547.08,"text":"不緊張的話就很悲哀啊買這個介紹也不是他要的 市場沒用 你當然介紹就管嘛結果他跟你說 香蕉不能這麼貴還有人說要去引進廉價的香蕉進來到底是誰在破壞台灣的農業啊到底是誰在殺害台灣的農業啊我直接用殺害兩個字 不是損害而已 是殺害啊"},{"start":549.192,"end":558.4,"text":"不然像現在你要怎麼做我跟委員報告齁就是在我們經濟委員會的委員包括國民黨包括民進黨包括任何政黨"},{"start":560.353,"end":585.211,"text":"對農業夠了解當你對農業不夠了解才會講這樣子的一個話當我們農民受到天然災害的時候那相關的這些量太少的時候就算他價格比較高也沒辦法滿足他的過往的收入啊是啊所以這個部分我們一定是堅持絕對不會從類似的其他的水果我們也不會從其他的國家去進口來打擊我們自己的農民"},{"start":586.764,"end":609.061,"text":"所以我是覺得這樣就是說有一些人對農業不了解的還是要多讀點書或者是到鄉下去走一走或者是農業部你們應該利用宣傳的時候讓大家多一點了解農業知識可是很可惜你們的宣傳經費也被砍所以不懂的人還是不懂"},{"start":610.329,"end":629.31,"text":"那我們希望能夠把台灣的水果推向國際不只是只有量我們希望那個價錢要把它拉高你要讓農民真的能夠透過外銷可以多賺一點錢可以賺得到錢這個是我們一直在努力的目標所以我想"},{"start":630.732,"end":648.459,"text":"預算被砍未來的這個災損的補助到底從何而來這個我們還需要一直努力啊那我不知道國民黨的委員願不願意協助願不願意去跟他們的副坤崎總召說放過農民一馬"},{"start":650.148,"end":661.943,"text":"放過農民一馬 幫幫台灣的農業如果他們願意 我們可以在這裡給他拍拍手如果不願意 那他們很顯然就是扼殺台灣農業的幫兇啊我必須要講這麼重的話 部長"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":111,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時46分）謝謝主席，我請陳部長。"],["主席：好，請部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長好。部長，每一次農業部都會把你們未來的工作跟過去所推動的業務都報告的非常詳細，但最近有一個新聞，我想還是要趁這個機會讓部長來說明一下，現在地方各地農會、各地區的農民都非常緊張，因為有國民黨的委員說，配合租地種電就會喪失農保資格。他說：政府對於老農養套殺。到底這件事情是不是真的？同時間我們看到去年在審查預算提案時，國民黨的馬文君委員說：農業部對種電的農民沒有取消他的農保資格，但是對於其他有營利事業登記證的農民卻取消他們的資格。很顯然在這件事情上面就有人在造謠了，到底農地種電會不會被取消資格？這是一件事情。政府有沒有對老農養套殺？這是第二件事情。第三件事情，我其實更想知道的是，我們現在一直不斷的在推動，對於無法耕作的老農，他們如果願意把他們的農地釋出，不管是去種電或者是租給青農，協助青農能夠真正實質從事農業耕作，但因為你們現在配合審計部的調查，是不是會導致地主跟締結租約的這一些實耕者關係惡化？這個問題要怎麼解決？部長，給您時間回答。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝委員，我這邊還是要強調，關於農保的資格，其實要加入農保的人都知道，他必須要有1分地，然後要實際從農。"],["邱委員議瑩：對。"],["陳部長駿季：相對的，就誠如剛才委員所提到的，針對65歲以上的老農，我們鼓勵他們把農地租給青年農民，所以在這個部分，其實我們已經放寬了，他的土地就不需要再擁有1分地，所以他的農保就沒有因為地不夠的問題，這個部分就……"],["邱委員議瑩：所以65歲以上的農民把地租給人家，他的農保資格不會喪失嘛……"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：即使是租給種電的也不會喪失嘛，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對，都不會喪失。"],["邱委員議瑩：好。"],["陳部長駿季：所以這個就是……"],["邱委員議瑩：這一點是很清楚的，一定要澄清，我覺得農業部也要去做澄清。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們一定澄清，65歲以上的老農是完全不會受到影響，這是要特別澄清的。"],["邱委員議瑩：是。"],["陳部長駿季：第二個部分，針對65歲以下的部分，就誠如剛才我講的簡報，我們為了配合國家能源政策，如果你的土地租給光電業者的時候，當你擁有土地的持份不到1分地時，我們也讓他能夠繼續擁有農保，所以配合光電政策的人也不會受到影響。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長，我覺得像這些……很奇怪，農業的東西啊，謠言很快就會散布，然後搞到所有的農民人心惶惶，我認為像這個，農業部應該要很快速的回擊，或者是很快速的反應，但是你們現在的快速反應會出現一個很大落差，就是因為你們的預算被砍、宣傳預算被砍，我現在要跟您談的是，你轄下的業務費被砍了，你的差旅費預算被砍了，宣傳預算也被砍了。差旅費被砍，很多人覺得差旅費被砍沒什麼，但差旅費被砍我很在意，為什麼？因為你們要隨時下鄉！你們要隨時下鄉，不管是勘災、不管是協助農民種植或農改場，隨時都要去協助農民做農業技術的改良，現在差旅費被砍，要怎麼樣去幫助農民？難道以後叫這些同仁走路去？還是騎腳踏車去？未來要怎麼去勘災？現在天氣變化這麼大，以致屏東的芒果只開花不結果，這現象會慢慢往上延伸到高雄、臺南，這些勘災要不要勘？去年年底時，玉荷包花開得很漂亮，現在發現問題了，也就是只開花不結果，這要不要去勘災？怎麼去勘災？但這項預算就這樣被砍了。還有您剛剛講到的，業務費被刪了，以後不能申請基金撥補；他們說基金撥補過來沒問題，可是不能申請預備金！去年農損你總共申請預備金撥補多少錢？"],["陳部長駿季：以去年的天然災害來說，撥補了將近四十億。"],["邱委員議瑩：撥補了四十億？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：今年預算被砍成這樣，你卻連一毛錢都申請不到？"],["陳部長駿季：對，依預算法而言，二備金是不可以的。"],["邱委員議瑩：按照預算法，你一毛錢都申請不到？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：怎麼辦？你要怎麼處理？祈求風調雨順，颱風永遠都不會來？"],["陳部長駿季：所以我們只能向行政院……第一個，我還是要……"],["邱委員議瑩：還是去擲筊？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，過去委員都知道這件事，所以我們的基金、公務撥補基金大概都不會被刪。這次被刪了以後，真的是對申請二備金造成影響。如果二備金不能申請的話，我們只能再看看行政院有沒有其他方面的基金，或者向……"],["邱委員議瑩：我覺得行政院能夠救助的方法都救助了，其實我們在經濟委員會並沒有刪這筆錢！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：每一個在現場的委員，包括國民黨委員在內，大家都說來自農業縣，大家對農業都是支持的，所以沒有刪這筆錢，為什麼到院會、到傅崐萁所領導的黨團就要把這筆錢刪掉？未來我們要怎麼協助農民去處理？","第三個，錢的問題還是小事，問題是臺灣的農產品被他們說的一文不值！部長，我給你看一個報導，這是民國86年的專欄報導。當時的農委會說要讓臺灣水果走精品路線，所以我們臺灣的農民很認真、很努力，一直希望能夠把臺灣的水果打向世界舞臺，打向國際舞臺。你看人家日本的夕張哈密瓜兩顆賣300萬日元，紅葡萄一串賣160萬日元，芒果兩顆賣60萬日元，這是精品走向，當然不是每一顆都這樣賣，對不對？我們希望有一天我們臺灣的水果也能夠站上日本的精品市場，不是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：是，這是我們努力的目標。"],["邱委員議瑩：結果你看一下。我們外銷日本的水果銷量是成長的，像去年跟2016年比，出口銷量大幅增加547%，可是金額只成長232%。鳳梨外銷日本九年成長16倍，總共成長1,614%，但金額只增加1,469%。換句話說，我們只有拼到量沒有拼到價錢，其實跟我們當時想做的相違背，部長懂我的意思嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我知道。"],["邱委員議瑩：現在因為天災，因為天氣冷，香蕉長不出來，所以香蕉價格貴，竟然被國民黨的王鴻薇說這是詐騙！他說香蕉怎麼可以這麼貴？臺灣的香蕉怎麼可以這麼貴？旗山的蕉農聽了內心都在淌血！沒香蕉可收割就很悲哀了，賣到這種價錢也不是他想要的，畢竟市場沒量價錢當然就高，結果他說香蕉不能這麼貴，還有人說要引進廉價的香蕉，到底是誰在破壞臺灣的農業？到底是誰在殺害臺灣的農業？我直接用「殺害」兩個字，不是損害而已，是殺害！部長，面對這種情形你們要怎麼辦？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，經濟委員會的委員，包括國民黨、包括民進黨、包括任何政黨，都對農業夠了解。只有對農業不夠了解的，才會講出這樣的話！當農民受到天然災害，以致量太少時，就算價格比較高，也沒有辦法彌補他過往的收入。"],["邱委員議瑩：是啊！"],["陳部長駿季：所以這部分我們一定會堅持，而類似的其他水果，我們也不會從其他國家進口，以免打擊我們自己的農民。"],["邱委員議瑩：我是覺得這樣，有一些人對農業不了解，就多讀點書，或到鄉下去走一走，或者農業部應該利用宣傳的時候，讓大家多了解一點農業知識。很可惜，你們的宣傳經費被砍了，所以不懂的人還是不懂。我們希望能夠把臺灣的水果推向國際，而且不是只有量，我們希望價錢要拉高，讓農民真的能夠透過外銷多賺一點錢，可以賺得到錢，這是我們一直在努力的目標。預算被砍，未來的災損補助到底從何而來？這個我們需要一直努力，但我不知道國民黨的委員是否願意協助？願不願意去跟他們的傅崐萁總召說，放過農民一馬，放過農民一馬！幫幫臺灣的農業！如果他們願意，我們可以在這裡給他拍拍手；如果不願意，很顯然的，他們就是扼殺臺灣農業的幫兇！部長，我必須要講這麼重的話。"],["主席：謝謝邱議瑩委員。","我們下一位請張嘉郡委員發言。我稍後要拜託楊瓊瓔委員幫我代理主席，到張啓楷委員詢答完畢後就休息。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":368,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-5","speakers":["蔡易餘","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","陳超明","翁曉玲","邱志偉","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","郭國文","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","鄭正鈐","李坤城","黃捷","徐欣瑩","張雅琳","陳冠廷","王美惠","林德福"],"page_start":301,"meetingDate":["2025-03-26"],"gazette_id":"1143201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143201_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}