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請部長跟江市長部長好 市長好這個"},{"start":18.485,"end":39.503,"text":"因為現在這個很多的民眾都把寵物當成是家人那所以說在過世之後也會舉辦這個比較隆重的商禮那所以呢有這個寵物的生命紀念夜越來越多那這個你們在2023年的7月份有一個訂定了一個非都市土地申請變更為"},{"start":40.864,"end":66.621,"text":"寵物生命紀念設施施用新辦事業計畫審查作為要點是名稱很長好請教一下這個從這個2023年7月到現在有幾件來申請了現在目前我所了解是73件來申請那其中有被駁回的大概是那個21件那退辦的話大概20件那通過的話大概有17件那其他15件在審查"},{"start":68.822,"end":84.791,"text":"所以實習建材合格通過,那在合格通過之後還要交回地方政府再做審查嘛?對不對?那目前現在全國合法的冰葬業者,寵物的生命經營業者有幾家?跟委員報告,目前完成地方政府核准的有兩家兩家,這兩家在哪裡?"},{"start":94.894,"end":120.894,"text":"目前的一個處理在桃園跟那個台中市好 桃園台中是因為他們有這個自治條例的關係嗎對 相關的自治條例好 那所以我的問題來了第一個就是說有70幾件來做申請然後呢因為農業部要先做審查再交回地方政府那光是農業部這邊兩年多來才核准了17件這速度上面會不會太慢"},{"start":122.742,"end":145.11,"text":"而且你們是用書面審查的方式嘛是不是你們大概平均一個案件審查大概需要多久時間這個我請我們的司長好請司長那個跟委員報告我們說到案子的話那個會相關單位一個案子大概要兩個月一個案子要兩個月準駁兩個月的時間然後就那個開會然後再做一個準駁對好那我的意思是在於說因為你們"},{"start":147.51,"end":168.24,"text":"這個有那個要點出來的然後各縣市政府也都知道嘛那為什麼不把這一個這個第一階段的審查就直接交由地方政府來做就好了因為我看你們這一個要點裡面啊你們有規範的說這一個比如說這個存放還有處理的設施然後呢接下來呢還有這個有關這個"},{"start":170.621,"end":190.779,"text":"要怎麼去做辦理都是要交由地方政府的不管是這個城鄉局、農業局、地政局、環保局、水域局等等這都是地方政府在做審查的嗎那我的意思是說那為什麼要跌床駕屋就是說你就直接交由地方政府按照你們的這個作業要點來做這個審查就好了啊我想這個部分謝謝委員的關心那會後我想我會去評估說"},{"start":198.706,"end":216.85,"text":"是不是直接可以移到地方政府來審或者是在審查的時候是一個聯席會議的方式聯席會審的方式能夠縮短這樣的一個時間不會說做什麼地方在那個因為你們也是做書面審那你們審查的東西其實跟地方政府審查的東西其實是內容應該是大同小異吧對不對我想"},{"start":218.241,"end":242.093,"text":"農業部審查的是大的規範然後地方審查是根據它的地方自治的部分它的一個個別的一個規範大的規範你就按照你們這個作業要點來處理就好了因為我看到你們作業要點裡面很多地方大家有做規範那只要地方政府按照你們這個規範來做然後最後他們其實能不能成立也都是由地方政府我剛才講的那些相關的局處來做其實跟我們農業部也沒有關係所以我是覺得說"},{"start":246.816,"end":270.776,"text":"現在是有這個需求但是在時程上面其實是慢了很多那你農業部審一次然後核准之後再由地方政府再審一次然後再送給這個農業部時間花太久了我了解那個委員的關心點但是有一個重要中央審查的時候其實他雖然說書面可是他的座落點有沒有他跟周遭的這些東西都需要一些套圖跟一些確認"},{"start":271.997,"end":287.891,"text":"不過我想這個地方也可以做啊地方這個套圖跟那個因為主動決志在我們地方的農業地震都可以做啦沒有這個部分可能我想我們會依據委員的想法我們看看有沒有辦法簡化這個流程還有中央跟地方的"},{"start":288.391,"end":305.111,"text":"分工的部分也要做一個確認啦這個部分我想我們會來努力就是說就算地方沒有這個自治條例可是我們中央有這個要點按照這個要點來做就可以了嘛對不對我想我們朝這個方向看看簡化這樣的一個方式如果地方自治條例沒有出來的時候是不是可以繼續往下走啦"},{"start":306.259,"end":332.67,"text":"那我再問 因為現在只有這個作業要點那可是也衍生很多人一些亂象那一些亂象就是說這個譬如說收費沒有統一的標準那如果業者如果惡性倒閉不知道怎麼去求償然後還有仲介業者呢 洋裝是業者然後消費者也沒有辦法去做處理然後設置地點有可能不符合法規但是消費者也不知道然後寵物遺體處理方式也不一致林林總總的請問一下"},{"start":333.751,"end":339.058,"text":"這個是中央農業部來管理呢還是地方政府來做處理呢如果有這些爭議性的話"},{"start":339.875,"end":350.524,"text":"我想我們為了解決這個爭議性,我們會用定型化契約來做一個規範所以目前沒有這個定型化契約?"},{"start":350.524,"end":365.717,"text":"現在目前沒有對阿,因為我是說,因為現在變成是你沒有中央一個,就像你們講的一個定型化契約或是一個統一的法規然後變成說在地方政府遇到這些亂象的話,變成說處理也不一致"},{"start":366.537,"end":395.271,"text":"那我是建議說就像部長講的就是說我們中央有一個契約讓地方的政府或是業者都能夠來遵循好不好我想我們會盡快我可能的話我希望在三個月之內都能夠把定型化契約公告讓那個業者或事主有所依循因為現在在處理這個可能都是口頭約啦口頭講一講那後來出問題以後你完全沒有合約規範的話也很難處罰啦所以我覺得定型化契約應該要更快的去落實"},{"start":396.031,"end":412.01,"text":"至少三個月內提出來好不好因為這個就是說有需求的民眾越來越多然後業者也越來越多但是你沒有一個相關的規範要到地方去然後大家也不知道怎麼去做處理我們盡快的來努力的做謝謝部長 謝謝市長 謝謝主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1090,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（12時56分）謝謝主席，請陳部長，還有動保司江司長。"],["主席：請部長跟江司長。"],["李委員坤城：部長好，司長好。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：現在很多民眾都把寵物當成是家人，在寵物過世之後也會舉辦比較隆重的喪禮，所以寵物生命紀念業越來越多。你們在2023年7月訂定了「非都市土地申請變更為寵物生命紀念設施使用興辦事業計畫審查作業要點」，名稱很長。請教一下，從2023年7月到現在，有幾件來申請了？"],["陳部長駿季：目前我所瞭解的是73件來申請……"],["李委員坤城：那核准幾件？"],["陳部長駿季：其中有被駁回的大概是21件，退辦的話大概20件，通過的話大概有17件，其他15件在審查。"],["李委員坤城：所以才17件合格通過，合格通過之後還要交回地方政府再做審查，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["李委員坤城：目前全國合法的寵物殯葬業者、生命紀念業者有幾家？"],["江司長文全：跟委員報告，目前完成地方政府核准的有兩家。"],["李委員坤城：這兩家在哪裡？"],["江司長文全：目前的處理在桃園跟臺中市。"],["李委員坤城：好，桃園、臺中。是因為他們有自治條例的關係嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對，相關的自治條例。"],["李委員坤城：好，所以問題來了，第一個，有七十幾件來申請，因為農業部要先做審查，再交回地方政府，光是農業部這邊兩年多來才核准了17件，速度上面會不會太慢？而且你們是用書面審查的方式，是不是？他們大概平均一個案件審查需要多久的時間？"],["陳部長駿季：我請司長說明。"],["李委員坤城：好，請司長。"],["江司長文全：跟委員報告，我們收到案子的話，會會相關單位，一個案子大概要兩個月。"],["李委員坤城：一個案子要兩個月？"],["江司長文全：對。"],["李委員坤城：准駁要兩個月的時間。"],["江司長文全：然後就開會，再做一個准駁。"],["李委員坤城：我的意思在於，你們有那個要點出來了，各縣市政府也都知道，為什麼不把第一階段的審查就直接交由地方政府來做就好了？因為我看你們這個要點裡面有規範譬如存放及處理的設施，接下來還有要怎麼去辦理，都是交由地方政府不管是城鄉局、農業局、地政局、環保局、水利局等等，這都是地方政府在做審查的，我的意思是，為什麼要疊床架屋？你就直接交由地方政府按照你們這個作業要點來做審查就好了。"],["陳部長駿季：這個部分謝謝委員的關心，會後我會去評估是不是可以直接移到地方政府來審，或者在審查的時候是一個聯席會議的方式，能夠縮短這樣的時間，不會審查以後，地方……"],["李委員坤城：因為你們也是做書面審，你們審查的東西跟地方政府審查的東西，內容應該是大同小異，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：農業部審查的是大的規範，地方審查是根據地方自治部分的個別規範。"],["李委員坤城：大的規範就按照你們這個作業要點來處理就好了，因為我看到你們作業要點裡面，很多地方當然有做規範，只要地方政府按照你們的規範來做，最後他們能不能成立，也都是由地方政府處理，如我剛才講那些相關的局處來做，其實跟農業部也沒有關係啊！我覺得現在有這個需求，但是在時程上面其實是慢了很多，農業部審一次，核准之後，地方政府再審一次，再送給農業部，時間花太久了！"],["陳部長駿季：我瞭解委員的關心點，但是有一個重點，中央審查時雖然是書面，可是它的座落點、它跟周遭的這些東西都需要一些套圖跟一些確認，不過我想……"],["李委員坤城：這個地方也可以做啊！"],["陳部長駿季：套圖跟那些部分，因為主動權是在我們……"],["李委員坤城：地方的農業、地政都可以做啦！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有！這個部分我們會依據委員的想法，看看有沒有辦法簡化流程，還有中央跟地方分工的部分也要確認，這部分我們會來努力。"],["李委員坤城：就算地方沒有這個自治條例，可是中央有要點，按照這個要點來做就可以了嘛，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我想我們朝這個方向來看看簡化的方式，如果地方自治條例沒有出來的時候，是不是可以繼續往下走。"],["李委員坤城：好。我再問，因為現在只有這個作業要點，可是也衍生了很多亂象，比如說收費沒有統一的標準，業者如果惡性倒閉，不知道怎麼去求償，還有仲介業者佯裝是業者，消費者也沒有辦法處理，設置地點有可能不符合法規，但是消費者也不知道，寵物遺體的處理方式也不一致，林林總總的。請問一下，如果有這些爭議性的話，是中央農業部來管理，還是地方政府來處理呢？"],["陳部長駿季：為了解決這個爭議，我們會用定型化契約來進行規範……"],["李委員坤城：所以目前沒有這個定型化契約？"],["陳部長駿季：目前沒有。"],["李委員坤城：對啊！因為現在變成中央沒有一個所謂的定型化契約或是統一的法規，地方政府遇到一些亂象的話，變成處理也不一致。我是建議就像部長講的，中央有一個契約，讓地方政府或是業者都能夠來遵循，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是，我想我們會儘快，可能的話，我希望在三個月之內能夠把定型化契約公告，讓業者或飼主有所依循，因為現在在處理這個，可能都是口頭約啦！"],["李委員坤城：對啊！"],["陳部長駿季：口頭講一講，後來出問題以後，你完全沒有合約規範也很難處罰，所以我覺得定型化契約應該要更快地去落實。"],["李委員坤城：至少三個月內提出來，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["李委員坤城：因為有需求的民眾越來越多，業者也越來越多，但是你沒有一個相關的規範，然後地方上大家也不知道怎麼處理，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我們儘快努力來做。"],["李委員坤城：好，謝謝部長，謝謝次長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員，請農業部正視這一個議題。","下一位請黃捷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":368,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-5","speakers":["蔡易餘","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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