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PAO CANADA 字幕組"},{"start":1846.653,"end":1849.188,"text":"好,請主任秘書報告出席委員人數"},{"start":1850.014,"end":1875.691,"text":"包括委員會、出席委員與主法定人數好 主席宣布現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年5月9日星期三九十一分至十二十二時分地點群仙樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林德福等14人列席委員鄭天才等11人列席官員行政主席總處主席長"},{"start":1876.973,"end":1884.212,"text":"陳淑芝等．主席、郭昭季委員、郭文報告事項一、宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定二、邀請行政院主席總署"},{"start":1885.706,"end":1909.897,"text":"陳主席長淑芝率所屬單位主管列席業報告．並備質詢。經行政院主席總署．主席長陳淑芝提出報告後藉由委員林德甫本事務人提出質詢。均經行政院主席總署．主席長陳淑芝等予以答覆。決定。依報告就訊答完畢。而委員執行會及答覆或請補充資訊。請行政院主席總署於一周內以書面答覆。委員另要求期限者從期鎖定。宣傳完畢。"},{"start":1912.603,"end":1935.958,"text":"好,那因我們現場的委員還不足法定人數,請醫事人宣讀今日議程。邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬相關單位就:「如何精進ESG制度評鑑、永續報告書及公司治理評鑑制度．並導引金融機構落實放貸及貸後管理工作．進行專題報告．並備質詢。」宣讀完畢。"},{"start":1938.052,"end":1966.026,"text":"好原理介紹在場委員首先要介紹的是我們財委會資深委員吳秉瑞吳委員好請接著介紹與會官員財政部我們的部長莊翠雲莊部長國庫署陳柏成署長稅務署宋秀林署長公務署彭英偉署長國財安署曾國基署長"},{"start":1967.612,"end":1996.594,"text":"財政資訊中心張文席主任台灣銀行呂傑成呂董事長施瑪麗總經理中國輸入銀行理事主席台灣土地銀行董事長謝娟娟、謝董事長何一鳴總經理總經理沒有來嗎?"},{"start":2004.278,"end":2026.185,"text":"中國輸入銀行戴登山理事主席謝富華總經理兆豐銀行雷仲達董事長胡光華總經理地銀行邱月琴董事長李嘉祥總經理華南銀行張雲鵬董事長"},{"start":2032.339,"end":2055.805,"text":"黃俊志總經理合作金庫林衍茂董事長蘇佐正總經理彰化銀行林中元董事長周朝榮總經理台灣中小企業銀行劉佩真董事長張智堅總經理"},{"start":2061.732,"end":2082.725,"text":"我們金管會彭金隆彭主委中規處胡哲華胡處長銀行局莊秀元莊局長政區局高金平高副局長保險局司瓊華司局長檢察局張子昊張局長"},{"start":2090.775,"end":2119.598,"text":"財政法院政交所股份有限公司總經理簡立宗簡總經理財政法院金融聯合徵信中心我們郭建宗郭董事長張國明總經理我們金融研訓院黃崇哲黃院長我們補充介紹我們另外一位資深委員林德福林委員"},{"start":2124.309,"end":2126.451,"text":"請問各位委員對上次議事錄有無異議請問兩位委員對議事錄沒有異議、無異議、議事錄確定"},{"start":2136.001,"end":2155.878,"text":"好,今日議程安排邀請財政部莊部長金管會彭主委率所屬相關單位就如何精進ESG制度評鑑、永續報告書及公司治理評鑑制度．並導引金融機構落實放貸及貸後管理工作進行專題報告現在請財政部莊部長進行專題報告"},{"start":2165.407,"end":2180.016,"text":"主席、各位委員先進大家好今天貴委員安排相關部會就如何精進ESG制度評鑑、永續報告書以及公司治理評鑑制度．並導引金融機構落實放貸及貸後管理工作進行專題報告"},{"start":2181.336,"end":2208.841,"text":"請就本部業務部分做簡要的說明首先本部推動成立USG倡議平台介於永續經營是全球的共識本部在110年折成第一金控召集公股金融事業共同推動成立USG的倡議平台並且依循金管會的公司治理3.0永續發展藍圖以及綠色行動方案2.0的推動措施以"},{"start":2209.821,"end":2233.336,"text":"組織與ESG資訊接入、責任金融以及環境及社會績效為三大主軸具域執行．並就短、中、長期三個階段來定定推動超過35項的具體執行方案本部持續地督導公股金融事業積極執行相關的措施來善盡企業的社會責任、致力永續金融的發展"},{"start":2234.136,"end":2259.171,"text":"第二個部分報告公股金融事業編制永續報告書的一個情形本部的ESG倡議平台具體執行方案包括了依循全球報告倡議組織準則編制ESG企業社會責任報告書並且委請第三方辦理驗證等項目目前公股金融事業都已落實執行ESG的倡議平台具體執行方案編制永續報告書"},{"start":2262.087,"end":2289.816,"text":"有關公司治理評鑑的成效根據財團法人中華民國證券暨期貨市場發展基金會113年公布的112年度公司治理評鑑的結果全部952家受評的上市公司本部的6家上市公股金融事業排名均位於7個級距中的前2個級距其中第一金控以及彰化銀行位居第一級距也就是前5%"},{"start":2291.737,"end":2313.859,"text":"顯見上市公股金融事業．積極推動公司治理成效．獲得肯定。有關公股金融辦理受信業務的情形代前偵審作業要強化ESG評估公股銀行透過查詢相關機關購的網站來檢視受信戶是不是有為污染源的列管對象"},{"start":2314.5,"end":2321.471,"text":"或者是遭環境相關法規的裁處以及有沒有違反勞動、射送案件等相關的負面資"},{"start":2324.106,"end":2350.001,"text":"並將它納入風險評級．根據這個結果來進行分級管理．作為調整受信條件以及利率審核的一個參考．另外本部也督請各公股金融事業根據ESG的三大面向．全面揭露因ESG風險而至有條件通過．以及未核准的貸款件數．並於它的網站來做公告"},{"start":2351.175,"end":2375.866,"text":"有關貸後管理機制的確保要落實執行ESG公股銀行貸後持續關注借款人的資金用途是不是符合規定並且透過查詢相關機關的網站了解受信戶有沒有在受信期間違反環保、公安以及主管機關的規範以確保受信戶各項的營運活動都能夠落實執行ESG的原則"},{"start":2376.866,"end":2395.195,"text":"有關光電產業貸後管理這個部分我們會等到經濟部訂定相關規範並建置平台揭露相關資訊後公股銀行貸後管理的機制也會把它納入查詢該平台的資訊如果受信戶有違反ESG的重大情形或成為高風險者"},{"start":2396.115,"end":2411.355,"text":"那麼就會啟動相關的控管機制．例如要求受信戶出具獨立第三方機構的環評報告．並給予定期的檢視．待放合約的期間是否有遭主管機關的採取．以及擴大並強化檢核公安案件的範圍等等．"},{"start":2412.236,"end":2431.25,"text":"以追蹤受信戶的改善情形．並採行利率加碼減少額度．停止動用或視為到期等相關的措施．來確保受信戶他是符合ESG永續金融的相關規範．本部高度重視ESG的創意平台推動成效．除了暗記追蹤者．"},{"start":2431.77,"end":2448.014,"text":"平台35項的具體執行方案的執行情形之外並且會列入公股金融事業負責人的績效評鑑也會在每季召開的金融事業務的研討會裡要督導公股金融事業落實ESG的理念"},{"start":2448.994,"end":2472.806,"text":"積極的推行永續金融本部基於股權管理機關的立場督請公股銀行依照主管機關金管會的規定伴流然後也要滾動精進受信審核管理的機制來兼顧金融業務的推展以及落實責任金融發揮金融機構引導企業檢探轉型旅行環境保護以及社會責任的功能"},{"start":2473.807,"end":2478.515,"text":"來達成國家淨零排放的目標以上說明 敬請各位委員會與指教謝謝"},{"start":2491.007,"end":2505.652,"text":"主席、各位委員、現場媒體朋友大家好某人國人會今天邀請金管會就本議題提出專案報告本會推動永續金融系整合金融資源支持淨零轉型及永續發展"},{"start":2506.912,"end":2526.763,"text":"並引導金融市場及整體產業重視氣候變遷與社會議題本會參考國際間永續金融主要做法及國內推動狀況陸續發布上市貴公司永續發展路徑圖綠色金融行動方案3.0以及上市貴公司永續發展行動方案以下將就三個面向向各位說明"},{"start":2527.483,"end":2548.756,"text":"一、透過公司治理評鑑及永續報告書提升我國資本市場競爭力。一、本會督導證交所自103年起辦理公司治理評鑑。二、每年由本會、證券周邊單位代表及外部學者專家共同組成之公司治理評鑑委員會﹐定期檢討精進指標﹐並持續參著國際趨勢﹐檢討精進各個面指標﹐並因應永續發展將公司治理評鑑轉型為ESG評鑑。"},{"start":2557.455,"end":2570.551,"text":"二、近年本會以督導政交所及櫃買中心推動強化永續報告書相關措施一、截至110年12月31日共有887家已申報永續報告書並自114年起全體上市櫃公司均應編制永續報告書二、"},{"start":2578.54,"end":2590.157,"text":"112年起上市會公司應與永續報告書以專章方式揭露氣候相關資訊114年起分階段揭露溫室氣體減量基準年減量目標策略及行動計畫"},{"start":2592.629,"end":2615.717,"text":"3.本會113年修正相關處理準則,要求上市櫃公司將永續資訊管理作業納入內部控制制度。4.以督請證交所及櫃買中心持續擴大永續報告書審的廣度與深度。5.建置ESG數位平台,協助上市櫃公司編制永續報告書,並於今年5月6日上線。"},{"start":2617.957,"end":2636.382,"text":"導入永續金融評鑑一、透過永續金融評鑑促使金融業重視ESG議題本會已於112年開始辦理永續金融評鑑評鑑對象為金融機構初期公布銀行證券及保險公司三頁排名前20%金融機構名單"},{"start":2639.735,"end":2663.707,"text":"評鑑內容包含永續發展綜合指標、環境、社會、公司治理、三支柱指標構面二、永續金融評鑑指標制設定包含了監理期待例如辨識客戶面對實體及轉型風險情形促進客戶制定淨零方案並加速永續轉型方案等三、將檢探目標制設定、揭露及落實情形納入評鑑指標四、將持續參考國際ESG發展趨勢"},{"start":2669.61,"end":2688.289,"text":"滾動調整永續金融評鑑指標推動金融機構探盤查引導企業低碳轉型本會推動金融業一時程揭露及確信範疇一、範疇二及範疇三是碳排並鼓勵金融業透過與客戶互動一和方式訂定減碳策略及目標之基礎"},{"start":2689.33,"end":2712.599,"text":"一、一百一十三年起掩體金融業減碳目標設定及策略規劃指引,促使金融業積極落實節能減碳及發揮資金與義和的影響力。三、協助金融業取得企業ESG相關資訊,強化ESG資訊平台。一、首先本會議請廉政中心建置企業ESG資訊平台。"},{"start":2714.402,"end":2735.795,"text":"本會督導政交所參考國際永續相關準則於113年推出新版ESG數位平台而內容涵蓋全體上市櫃公司應申報之ESG指標數由29項擴增至97項以提升整體金融市場永續資訊透明度引導金融機構落實放貸及貸後管理工作"},{"start":2736.836,"end":2749.831,"text":"本會議定定獎勵本國銀行辦理六大核心戰略產業放款方案自110年4月起實施截至113年3月底放款優惠已達2.8兆元本會議於103年督導銀行公會參採次到原則納入"},{"start":2755.116,"end":2774.152,"text":"會員授信準則第20條之五規範銀行辦理企業授信審核時以審酌借款戶是否善盡環境保護、企業誠信及社會責任為督促銀行確實將ESG因素納入授信審查及貸後管理本會以督導銀行工會提具以下強化措施"},{"start":2775.573,"end":2791.556,"text":"銀行辦理授信業務評估因依永續經濟活動認定參考指引．判斷企業是否符合永續經濟活動．例如違反環境、勞動及相關法令等．並於112年10月25被查銀行公會所報相關治理規範之修正．"},{"start":2793.098,"end":2806.336,"text":"貸放後持續關注企業戶營運．發生涉及負面公司治理及社會責任議題．對ESG具重大危害情形時．銀行應追查原因及時掌握情況．並視個案情形採取必要之措施"},{"start":2807.85,"end":2828.327,"text":"永續發展議題需要跨域、跨界的共同合作．因此本會將持續透過公司協力．完善永續金融生態系．而共同落實減碳轉型．達成我國2050淨零碳排及永續發展的目標．以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝謝謝彭主委的報告"},{"start":2830.799,"end":2848.693,"text":"接著我們開始進行詢答先做以下宣告每位催促委員發言時間為8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言時間為5分鐘今天上午10點30分截止發言登記現在依照登記順序請登記第一位林德福委員資訊"},{"start":2860.609,"end":2877.934,"text":"謝謝主席 是不是請財政部莊部長．有請莊部長．還有金管會的彭主委．有請彭主委委員好部長還有主委你好那我首先請彭主委"},{"start":2879.676,"end":2887.518,"text":"我想這個美債殖利率飆升美股大盤預證華麗那到從收黑到414點收盤創五月份以來的最低點反觀從4月19號我們整個台股大盤最近從低點的19291"},{"start":2903.541,"end":2903.861,"text":"臺股的表現與美股脫鉤?"},{"start":2919.016,"end":2941.711,"text":"謝謝委員因為身為這個政經市場主管機關我們關注的是整個市場的所謂的制度當然台股在全球的股市當然會受到美國股市及國際情勢的影響那有沒有脫鉤嗎?你認為呢?其實台灣有自己的基本面當然也會受到影響所以說就是"},{"start":2943.712,"end":2949.979,"text":"當然我們關注的是整個制度面會不會有影響到我們市場的安定但是所有的國際上面的因素應該都對台股會有影響"},{"start":2966.945,"end":2991.177,"text":"主委,台股處在高檔,目前你認為持續樂觀還是要居高思維?跟委員報告,其實我覺得股票市場短期會受到消息面的影響,長期還是會回到基本面。我們看國發會的景氣對策訊號,我們4月是在2022年3月以後第一次轉為黃紅燈,也是顯現我們的經濟情緒是審慎樂觀。"},{"start":2995.519,"end":2998.222,"text":"中信金和星光金整個合併傳言四起,金管會擔任主委你有什麼看法?"},{"start":3012.407,"end":3032.047,"text":"市場上面有關合併的案子都是市場上面的一些的傳言我想金管會身為金融市場的主管機關一定會密切關注所有的動向但是對於傳聞的案例金管會無法評論謝謝好那我請教要是金控合併對整個金融圈到底有什麼影響"},{"start":3033.462,"end":3052.248,"text":"金融的整併牽涉到包括市場競爭以及市場的安定我想除了金管會還有市場競爭、公民會還有市場結合的議題我想它的層面非常的複雜主委因為我們陳組長昨天被刑時說目前整個情況持續是看好"},{"start":3058.14,"end":3073.411,"text":"那今年整個經濟成長率至少可以達到3.5%美國道窮走勢或許是反映居高思維那我請問主委你認為臺股履創新高到底是提醒"},{"start":3075.153,"end":3086.063,"text":"我們要如何去提醒投資大眾把台股看成是已經預先反映未來整個經濟走勢必須居高思維還是整個國內整個經濟情勢緩談還不到高點"},{"start":3091.186,"end":3113.939,"text":"謝謝那委員我剛剛跟您報告過金管會對未來的大盤我們不做預測但是我們還是要提醒所有投資人注意風險然後深深選股那你認為我們整個台股的大盤未來還有沒有機會再創新高跟委員報告就是我剛剛講金管會對這個我們未來我們不做任何的預期這樣齁好那個部長"},{"start":3115.08,"end":3136.252,"text":"我想為了避免租賃公司換款給年輕小白．以導致出現債台高築甚至於紙債負償媒體報導財政部已經號令八大行庫強化貸後的管理據金融業者透露有些行庫已經"},{"start":3137.313,"end":3139.955,"text":"跟委員報告有關融資助令業的一些待放上的社會的一個關注"},{"start":3162.847,"end":3190.236,"text":"那本部是在3月28號例行的公股金融事業研討會裡面有提醒我們的公股銀行要橫著租賃業融資租賃業的一個營運特性然後精進徵售性以及貸後管理的一些措施那至於並沒有叫公股銀行而且就我們了解公股銀行也沒有做下面比如說要簽承諾書啦或者是說保證資金不可以去做先買後付以及如果違反承諾就要全部收回貸款"},{"start":3190.896,"end":3193.579,"text":"因為媒體報導的做法內容是由金融業者要求簽署確決書拒絕所獲得的資金不會流向先買後戶業者"},{"start":3206.391,"end":3224.98,"text":"接著查核資金的用途是我和原申請、申貸的計畫有沒有相符若不相符那整個銀行將提前收回一部分甚至於全部收回資金那請問你認為這樣的一個方式是不是有效的貸後管理的做法"},{"start":3225.88,"end":3237.172,"text":"跟委員報告財政部是在3月28號提醒我們的供股航空要注意融資駐令業的一個營運特性但是並沒有要求供股金融事業要求如同剛剛委員所說的要寫所謂的切結書、承諾書或提前收回這些"},{"start":3240.271,"end":3261.359,"text":"並沒有做這樣的一個具體的這樣的要求那公股金融事業對於相關資金的貸後管理是本來就要都要在做的也就是我剛才貸放給你是做什麼樣的用途那你是不是有按照這個樣計畫使用同時我們也知道臺北市租賃業的工會已經對於所謂的先買後付以及車輛交易的業務也訂立一個自律規範"},{"start":3262.219,"end":3262.419,"text":"那我請教"},{"start":3288.646,"end":3310.235,"text":"你認為工會這樣的要求執行上會不會有困難度啊這個部分呢我想在工會竟然已經有註定商業同業工會竟然已經訂了這個自律規範那我們認為這個就是應該要他們要去做這樣子然後我們公股金融事業在受信的時候也要去注意他們的借款戶有沒有合乎這個自律規範"},{"start":3311.495,"end":3331.336,"text":"這樣喔對對於金融業者貸放後必須強化貸後的管理來追查資金的流向以避免貸放金額流入先買後戶的業務那媒體報導核庫金控董事長表示應該要由銀行公會來訂定一致性的規範也就是"},{"start":3331.997,"end":3343.206,"text":"公民銀行都應該要受到規範約束才能夠解決金流破口的問題那我請問部長貸後的整個管理"},{"start":3345.014,"end":3368.087,"text":"做法是由銀行公會統一一致性來規範來約束公民銀行的提議你認為是不是比較理想還是你認為金管會應該要有進一步主導貸後管理規範的必要我想這個涉及到金管會的權責我們尊重金管會的一個看法彭主委那你有什麼看法"},{"start":3369.136,"end":3384.138,"text":"有關那個全體銀行比如說貸後管理的部分我想這一項就是我們金管會會注意的項目那至於說剛剛委員提到這部分我們會再請銀行公會來研議因為你等於是現在都是由公會來主導嘛"},{"start":3384.755,"end":3384.895,"text":"主委"},{"start":3401.039,"end":3403.761,"text":"根據財政部統計,截至今年一月底,八家公股銀行對融資租賃業貸款餘額合計1359億元。"},{"start":3423.156,"end":3436.648,"text":"請問主委金管會到底有沒有民營銀行、行庫對這個融資、租貸業或貸款餘額的統計數字有沒有委員如果允許我可不可以請銀行局局長跟您回覆可以啊謝謝"},{"start":3441.356,"end":3469.759,"text":"報告委員我們是有個別去統計就是各個銀行對於融資公司的放款那你公立製造那私立的你知不知道到底有多少我們也有在調查只有調查而已你到目前沒有數字嗎我們其實是有數字有數字那你可不可以公布啊因為才讓大家了解說到底公司銀行貸款給這些租賃業者到底一共有加起來加總有多少"},{"start":3470.259,"end":3486.869,"text":"我們就是個別金融機構的數字我們大概不太方便總數你總有吧對總體的數字我們是可以那可以你現在講啊大概是3000億左右3000億對啊私有的銀行貸3000億那公有的是1359所有的銀行所以公私利加起來3000億左右對"},{"start":3492.492,"end":3515.209,"text":"因為其實財委會會排這個主要當然我們是希望說透過這個由銀行公會甚至於制定貸後管理比較好的一個規範這個也比較適合那由金管會訂定你認為是比較合適還是那個主委還是認為由現在這些公會他們來制定比較適當"},{"start":3516.71,"end":3528.468,"text":"我想過去我們會循過去的往例來處理這個問題當然還是先由工會來做相關的規範我是希望你們在這方面要去重視謝謝謝謝林大夫的質詢 請接著我們請吳秉樂委員質詢"},{"start":3544.727,"end":3547.75,"text":"主席麻煩請金管會彭主委有請彭主委委員好主委好今天要討論這個議題我覺得那個範圍很大尤其是節能減碳中間這個碳"},{"start":3561.277,"end":3588.592,"text":"那是現在是一個很夯的這個話題可是你了不了解其實並不是大家都是朝著一致的看法像美國總統拜登他當然非常重視這個議題民主黨很重視這個議題因為從高爾開始就是一直在講這個全球暖化的問題但是川普卻認為這是一個假議題當然川普的講法有點極端"},{"start":3589.807,"end":3609.606,"text":"那是兩種完全不同的思考的方式那我們現在台灣照現在的講法都是一面倒都是朝向這個近鄰這個方向這樣子是對的嗎有沒有另外一種思考是不是稍微要平衡思考一下呢"},{"start":3611.247,"end":3637.489,"text":"謝謝委員其實有關減碳當然在不管是就我所知啦就學術或是在很多其實是有爭議不過現在的主流思維還是跟我們現在所做的方向是一致的主流思維啦主流思維要減碳然後現在碳權要買賣有人就說這是一筆好生意比爾蓋茲在美國買了非常多的農場他準備要大賺一筆"},{"start":3638.939,"end":3663.994,"text":"因為農場只要有種樹只要種綠色植物它的碳的買賣它就可以源源不斷的收入也有這樣子的講法同一個時間全世界也沒有一致的標準如果台灣對碳權的要求這麼的先進這麼的前衛甚至要達到跟歐洲最先進地方一樣的標準它的優勝劣敗有沒有評估過"},{"start":3670.994,"end":3695.225,"text":"這個部分的話我想說我們現在以金管會的立場我們大概會從兩個方向走啦一個就是金融業的本身另外就是我們透過上市會公司的管理去導引大家往這個方向走有,你的報告裡面是這樣講的對對當然就是說這個我們的目標其實設的比較遠以後但是我們希望這既然是國家的政策我們就逐步來推動當然這個評估的部分呢我們是按照我們自己金管會這樣的規劃進程在進行"},{"start":3697.984,"end":3723.681,"text":"好 那你有沒有聽過概念叫綠色通膨因為這些都是要成本的嘛我舉個例子我剛剛為什麼講說全世界標準不一樣會產生問題你拿這樣的簡單標準要求發展中國家他有能力可以遵守嗎要求中國他有辦法可以遵守嗎要求非洲、中亞這些國家他有辦法遵守嗎"},{"start":3726.034,"end":3746.828,"text":"顯然短期之內不可能嘛那當他不遵守的時候台灣的貿易處在一個先天上不利的地位因為我們被中國長期欺負打壓所以我們很多的國際之間的貿易組織我們是進不去的我們本身在台灣的製造業關稅平均起來就比別的地方製造業要再高那當其他國家不用"},{"start":3751.608,"end":3761.594,"text":"這些碳費不用這些成本的時候臺灣卻急著要把它抓進來這某一個角度是不是在大戰略上面要讓臺灣的製造業要離開臺灣因為成本墊高了之後"},{"start":3767.096,"end":3784.546,"text":"有一部分啦當然有一部分說我在技術上可以超越我那非常先進的企業我不受這個控制我不受這個影響但是那一些為了2%、3%利潤在苦苦求生謀卒生存的這些中小企業在這個再被墊高之後他如何生存呢"},{"start":3786.565,"end":3802.504,"text":"我們在推動永續金融裡面有一個很重要是要協助企業永續轉型我們透過我們的投融資貸放來協助所以像我們推動一些所謂綠色的放款綠色的金融商品其中某一部分就是要協助我們比如說企業來"},{"start":3803.365,"end":3805.126,"text":"轉型跟理論講起來都很容易啊坐在學術殿堂或是在國會裡面這樣談都垮垮而談很容易啊問題是到了製造業"},{"start":3832.116,"end":3834.897,"text":"到了這些中小企業他面臨的就是生存的問題耶近年轉型貸款給他要求他要升級有這麼容易嗎我記得之前有政治人物說2030年所有的燃油機車都不能用了結果引起多大的風暴你知道嗎好那我現在再問你我們就不要講到這個中小企業了中鋼就好中鋼他一年的探權要交多少錢"},{"start":3861.069,"end":3881.639,"text":"到目前這樣算起來至少幾十億以上那因為中國的大量傾銷我們的鋼板就已經很難生存了在全世界就幾乎都沒有競爭力了因為中國是用國家在後面補貼的嘛他是一個不公平的貿易嘛那這時候我們自己再把自己再加上去然後跟你競爭的那個企業不用他不用去這些成本那到底要如何競爭啊"},{"start":3888.639,"end":3903.652,"text":"現在要問的是一個這樣的問題當然我今天問的這個問題可能說跟這個顯學啦 跟同事說大家就是要走淨零轉型走淨零轉型 要談也可以談啊問題是你有沒有思考到另一面的問題這個速度如果太快或是說這一些的配套如果不足"},{"start":3910.39,"end":3929.377,"text":"每一家的中小企業就是面臨這些員工的生存問題製造業到底 台灣到底要不要 你是要趕出去嗎還是說台灣都不要低階製造業還是要像美國一樣過去全球化讓它的製造業到全世界去然後現在才開始用大量的這個政策補貼要求製造業重返美國"},{"start":3932.217,"end":3950.963,"text":"這個思考不是這麼簡單說我這個淨體轉型大家都希望環境越來越好有誰希望環境壞但是問題是要做得到啊那這一方面如果你們吹太暗的時候吹得太快我很擔心台灣社會到底受得了受不了"},{"start":3953.02,"end":3976.801,"text":"我們從金管會的立場我們對剛才講金融機構跟上市櫃公司的管理上面我們現在也有體察到這一點我們採取都是用鼓勵的措施而不是用強制的這樣的措施就剛才那個講這個ESG評鑑或永續金融評鑑我們都是採用鼓勵的方式用導引畢竟剛才牽涉到比如說我們的探權、探費還有探稅的問題都不是金管會所能主政"},{"start":3977.523,"end":3999.709,"text":"我知道不是你們的主政了我今天因為今天要談這個問題在談這個問題我就主要要問你嘛因為你要了解你要思考的是全體而不是政治這個東西你要走在眾人前的一步可以引導眾人眾人看得到你走得太遠看不到的時候比較先知啊自古先知都是寂寞的因為跟不上啊"},{"start":4000.598,"end":4007.603,"text":"我在同樣的邏輯思考方式 我要來請教你另外一個問題你獨立董事現在要弄心智嘛"},{"start":4008.642,"end":4034.667,"text":"那現在就是2024年要先適用的出資申請股票上市櫃的公司還有實收資本額達新台幣100億的公司金融保險業的上市櫃公司你們現在對於獨立董事人數不得少於三人且不得少於董事席是三分之一獨立董事半數以上連續任期不得超過三屆有提出這樣的政策嗎"},{"start":4036.035,"end":4044.108,"text":"然後學界立刻就說那人才荒啊你獨立董事的人要從哪裡來啊哪裡有這麼多的獨立董事可以用啊是不是要思考這個問題"},{"start":4047.604,"end":4069.611,"text":"謝謝委員那其實我們對於這個獨立董事任期就有一個上限規定是要考慮到他的獨立性的維持那再來我們有那個政績會有個獨立獨立董事人才庫上面也有協助上市櫃公司去尋找他的獨立董事的夠不夠現在應該有1500位符合資格的候選人在那個資料庫上面"},{"start":4070.233,"end":4083.622,"text":"那你總共要用多少人如果照這個標準你總共要用多少人1700多家上市櫃公司到2027年的時候全部至少要3個以上那就有5000多人而且不可以連任"},{"start":4085.27,"end":4113.124,"text":"有一半以上不可以連任三次以上喔對對不能連任三屆那現在是主要是我們現在根據我們的法律規定一個人可以兼任四個獨立董事所以我們有1500個人這樣我們初步的評估應該是現在是量量是夠只是說適不適合那是由他們各個公司來評估那所以這個人才顧1500多人他們就可以承認獨統俱樂部跟公司沒有關係我有這個資格你們就得來騙我不然你人才方不夠啊"},{"start":4114.486,"end":4135.646,"text":"這是供給跟需求的問題啊這個是簡單的數學問題嘛所以我具備這個資格假設有一天我不當立委了我律師我就掛進人才庫那不相干不認識的這些公司就來請我當讀董是這樣的概念嗎那我對公司完全沒有股份公司的經營好壞我要如何負責"},{"start":4138.035,"end":4157.64,"text":"人才庫只是提供一個資訊給我們上市會公司來參考那至於說 是不適合專長服不符合我想是有的律師哪有專長不符合公司的董事、董監事、律師、會計師都是非常符合資格的條件那我只是要跟你講說 制度的推行"},{"start":4158.78,"end":4186.492,"text":"有它的合理性但是要循序漸進你要抓住那個tempo啦你有的時候太急、太趕另外一點過去公司的設計就我大學的時候念的公司法回去當董監事是因為我對這間公司我有一個大的持股所以公司好我會跟著好公司不好我會跟著不好因為是我的財產那如果現在都大量用獨董公司沒有持股也可以都用這樣的概念來的時候那公司經營的成敗"},{"start":4189.669,"end":4191.751,"text":"謝謝吳秉瑞委員的質詢 接著我們請賴世保委員質詢"},{"start":4228.497,"end":4256.144,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進有請金管會的彭主委以及政交所的簡總經理有請彭主委還有簡總委員好兩位長官好委員好我想最近這一陣子我們立法院推動的國會改革無法的事情跑出了一個王逸川事件"},{"start":4257.489,"end":4286.675,"text":"王玉川不是路人甲、路人鯉他是執政黨、民進黨的政策會執行長他在節目裡面公開講了那一天幾月幾號來的人跟5月19、跟太陽花的人是不一樣的就牽涉到手機的IP定位的問題根據我們的各執法訂的很清楚各執法第二條第一款"},{"start":4287.791,"end":4314.876,"text":"手機的定位資訊是屬於各支中華電信有沒有我這裡圖有一個中華電信5月17號就開進來了5月21號也進來5月24號也進來5月28號也進來每天都進來就在我們青島會館的對面拍得很方便我們就拍得看到按照1月17現在昨天"},{"start":4316.041,"end":4339.526,"text":"在立法院巡打的時候國安局撇得輕輕的沒有他都沒有介入內政部都不知道法務部都被查辦了問題問題民進黨的公職人員在電視台上就講了這個資料是中華電信提供的我們就問了"},{"start":4343.798,"end":4366.126,"text":"現在已經鬧得沸沸揚揚媒體吵了幾天這麼大的事情請問中華電信有沒有針對事情發布重訊有沒有有沒有沒有啊那你做什麼的主委啊訂立一下交易所啊可不可以馬上叫他發可以嗎監總經理"},{"start":4371.538,"end":4386.042,"text":"向委員報告我們仲訓一定要先他發生這個事件的已經發生了他已經發生的把資料各自洩露給民進黨的政治委執行長已經發生了已經發生了這難道不是很大的事情嗎這是醜聞這是等於台灣版的水門事件"},{"start":4395.743,"end":4406.762,"text":"向委員說明一下就是上市公司他像他這一個不是你不要跟我講那一堆啦齁我11月有限你就告訴我這個事件他該不該發訊息請問你該不該發"},{"start":4411.476,"end":4439.407,"text":"委員我覺得應該是要有這個管理這個相關的法規的部門確定他違反規定了現在已經法務部他自然在偵查這個事情啊這個事情還不嚴重啊查就查中華電信啊我昨天上節目還有一個民進黨公職人員就把中華電信拿出來啊中華電信就中華電信給的資料啊"},{"start":4440.816,"end":4440.996,"text":"我還想說這個"},{"start":4469.833,"end":4478.148,"text":"是不是符合我們現在現行規定發布重訓的標準那可不可以那個交易所或是我們副市長跟我們說我們現在發重訓的標準是"},{"start":4481.247,"end":4507.038,"text":"報告委員那原則上上市櫃公司如果符合最近有新聞媒體報導那我們就是請他們做澄清那另外一個就是委員有提到說他是不是符合我們重訊的那個標準那交易所這邊應該會請這兩家公司做說明然後評估是不是要依照規定發重訊所以你們也不敢要求他們發喔這影響到會影響到股價喔影響到股東權利喔"},{"start":4510.899,"end":4528.671,"text":"因為大家原來發現說,喔!我是中華電信的,原來我的個資毫無保護啊!我的個資隨時都被洩漏啊!那不敢買啊!這影響到教育啊,怎麼沒有呢?這麼大的事情,怎麼影響啊?踩到基礎喔!已經新聞燒了幾天了,今天平民媒體這麼大的版面在做這個題目!他對外新聞稿沒有發!"},{"start":4542.097,"end":4571.278,"text":"在這裡已經雞尾狗跳了昨天國安局、昨天內政部、法務部相關的首長都講話了還要理不理欸ESG可以做這麼吵你們不要處理一下我再釐清一下這是不是應該要發是不是符合我們要發訊息的規範我們請交易所去盡速釐清一下什麼時候可以進行?今天可以嗎?"},{"start":4572.406,"end":4576.93,"text":"好歹中華電信要放新聞稿吧!人家都點名中華電信,我在這裡點名中華電信,他可以不放新聞稿嗎?"},{"start":4597.83,"end":4606.413,"text":"昨天跟我上節目一起的民進黨的公司人員那板子給我看了中國電信都安捏男的都什麼女的都安捏都在那裡憋這樣東西就代表中國電信洩露個資阿這是違反個資法"},{"start":4615.281,"end":4639.743,"text":"最少要求他發新聞稿 因應這個事 到底王玉川公經的公帝亂講一通 還是真的中華電信犯法 洩漏各支客戶 多少客戶 七百萬 千萬 各支"},{"start":4643.308,"end":4644.009,"text":"公股運航八位董事長"},{"start":4679.778,"end":4696.693,"text":"我看今天的題目啊我們的主席用心良苦啊說1月17他的隱瞞有這個意思意思做得好貸款條件應該好一點是這個意思吧就這個味道請問八家董事長"},{"start":4698.902,"end":4710.086,"text":"你們的放狠條件有沒有針對ESG排行前面的幾家的客戶給他特別的優惠一下比如說利率降個半碼有沒有 有的舉手沒有舉手的嗎1、2、3、4、5、6、7 少一家 八家都有減半碼的舉手"},{"start":4727.377,"end":4749.551,"text":"來來來,部長要聽說,或者是雷董事長要代表了好不好,你是銀行公務的理事長呢報告委員沒有講那麼多啦,大概兩三個基本點啦兩三個基本點,0.03%萬分之三,萬分之三是吧,兩三個基本點就是萬分之三嘛,千分之三萬分之三"},{"start":4753.645,"end":4765.055,"text":"對,萬分之三沒錯千分之三萬分之三零點零零三對很久了零點零三啦零點零三來,主委啊,一起來好不好,主委一起來那個,八家董事長可以請回了八家董事長告訴我們都有跟ESG有掛鉤但是一點點"},{"start":4780.374,"end":4803.159,"text":"這個就是 主委 我就告訴你 還有幾位董事長聽我好了你們ESG發的ETF有9檔了 對吧確定一下沒關係 對 我們確定不熱 不熱 沒有incentive主席就提不牌了 要incentiveincentive 萬分之二 萬分之三 要一件毫無incentive 主委"},{"start":4808.513,"end":4821.383,"text":"可不可以請問部長：打破一下好歹到千分之一吧萬分之二、萬分之三太少了難怪人家不理啊做得再好沒用啊"},{"start":4823.732,"end":4825.193,"text":"政府的政策也很重要!"},{"start":4846.232,"end":4848.373,"text":"因為ESG談到一個減碳的問題他投入碳權的市場"},{"start":4866.234,"end":4882.84,"text":"藍桿豐廊有一個高效率的冰水主機計畫預估10年減少110萬公噸的攤牌其他公股要不要比照啊 要舉手一下好不好 要不要比照比照一下好不好 其他公股營養董事長土雲做得不錯喔 這個表揚土雲雷董事長要不要舉手喔"},{"start":4889.485,"end":4889.985,"text":"請問部長你是要忍錢包嗎?"},{"start":4908.493,"end":4908.613,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4929.517,"end":4943.047,"text":"冷錢包據我所知就是我們現在虛擬資產上面那個就是我們可以大聲一點好不好就是可以收收那個就是可以接收虛擬虛擬資產的帳虛擬資產加起來就是冷錢包你們在5月17號你們有公布一個WEBS有一個作業系統就針對冷錢包你們類似管理的一個辦法"},{"start":4959.639,"end":4961.5,"text":"全台灣第一支電子產品偵測權能夠秀出冷清包"},{"start":4989.896,"end":5004.104,"text":"這個部長你知道這件事情嗎?總部長知道嗎?他送過我們一支,這個當然不是送給你啦齁,送給警政署的。來,公務署他講話可以啊。我們有沒有這一支?有沒有這一支群?有沒有?沒有,要不要買?這個走私啊,這個洗錢的。"},{"start":5014.059,"end":5041.539,"text":"我們有權訊中心我們有權資的這個來源我們的權沒辦法修這個這是很unique很unique主委你覺得我們需不需要引進這樣的一個秀絕冷錢包的權我想我們站在制度的建立任何有助於比如說防範犯罪健全市場我們都可以來考慮部長我在跟你提醒"},{"start":5042.915,"end":5060.829,"text":"大家計時海關特別是金管會你管的虛擬貨幣是怕洗錢怕洗錢這個就很容易洗錢一個小小的USB你怎麼知道是那個呢只有不可能收嘛全身收我USB不是人錢包"},{"start":5062.233,"end":5082.31,"text":"有這樣的權是美國送我們一隻去打電話給我們部長謝謝委員的一個提示我們再去進一步的了解然後看看盡快喔你去跟警政署聯絡一下問一下這樣的權啊再跟美國要一隻嘛你們海關用不然就去買啊我們不是沒有錢"},{"start":5083.561,"end":5095.207,"text":"可以嗎我跟委員報告就是我們再先去了解然後跟相關的機關去聯繫看看要怎麼樣的方式來做這樣子好 謝謝賴思寶委員質詢謝謝委員下一位我們請郭國文委員質詢請"},{"start":5112.827,"end":5114.322,"text":"謝主席,有請彭主委"},{"start":5119.978,"end":5120.098,"text":"主席"},{"start":5150.078,"end":5168.853,"text":"但是我本席這邊要對您說的是說你如果只是一個鼓勵跟指引那企業如果是一個消極的態度去面對的話恐怕這個ESG的這個標準是不是能夠形成一個公信形成一個具體的指標就令人擔憂所以我看到是這樣子"},{"start":5169.574,"end":5185.541,"text":"我們台灣指數公司確實有針對這些公司來進行一些永續的一個評鑑但是評鑑過程當中屢屢引起一些爭議爭議在哪裡?爭議在這個別的公司在評鑑上有的是優等生有的是特優生但是呢卻有違反這個社會責任"},{"start":5186.741,"end":5190.962,"text":"Puget也有許多民間團體讀懂的協會調查到目前為止經營階層當中對於ESG的認知還相當缺乏"},{"start":5209.088,"end":5228.589,"text":"重視程度還有待加強甚至對這個相關的問題還不甚了解這種情況底下我想請問一下主委主委是不是可以比照像薪酬或審計委員會的這個部分在規範上能夠稍微強制一點譬如講成立一個永續發展委員會不需要主委的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":5229.995,"end":5256.397,"text":"現在我想各個公司呢比如說我們省紀委員會當然是強制要設還有現在永續委員會這是各個公司可以來決定就像我們薪酬一樣那我們有些有強制力我們會我們會持續的評估像比如說如何強化公司治理像比如說省紀委員會設置還有他的權責把它加重就是我們從實務上看到的比如說假設委員有提到未來永續會是一個長遠要落實的政策的話我們會請我們相關的單位來評估這樣的"},{"start":5259.119,"end":5281.912,"text":"我稍微push一下好不好稍微強制一下這個可以來評估啦你想一想喔像我們所有這個資訊的揭露你包括這個所謂的平淺的台灣指數公司所平淺的內容當中它也是事後指標它也沒有辦法去驗證它的真實性如果說呢這個永續報告書這麼重要如同是財報的這個地位的話財報還有會計師在做認證那永續報告書誰來認證對不對"},{"start":5289.639,"end":5296.904,"text":"現在我們其實有請交易所跟櫃買做審閱剛剛有跟委員報告過當然就是說現在我們剛剛提到就是我們在做這個永續報告的時候一開始大家都是我們是鼓勵所以我們盡量請他們先做獨立的報告這個部分我們當然是會不斷的優化"},{"start":5313.255,"end":5327.787,"text":"在審閱的過程當中如果說假設這個報告書的內容它有虛偽不實或有隱匿的狀況它其實是違反政交法第36條第4項公開發行公司年報應記載事項準則這有明形式的問題"},{"start":5334.554,"end":5359.247,"text":"我可不可以請副局長回答一下是報告委員因為那個永續報告書其實是交易所這邊的規定所以違反是違反交易所那邊有相關交易所的違約金的處分只是說永續報告書有一些介入內容我們現在也把它放到年報裡面股東會的年報那股東會年報如果記載有虛偽不實那就會違反我們證交法要放到年報以後才算符合這個法令"},{"start":5360.888,"end":5361.288,"text":"我舉一個例子"},{"start":5379.884,"end":5401.751,"text":"這個標準的部分 永續金融的評鑑的當中對於水泥的這個碳排的部分 一年的部分的排放的強度是0.9公噸可是就法規上 這排放的強度是0.821那我請問一下 那ESG要比照哪一個標準這比照法規的呢 還是比照我們本身的永續評鑑的這標準不一樣"},{"start":5404.508,"end":5429.229,"text":"現在是先按照市場上面的規定然後如果主管機關有意見會再把標準再弄得比較嚴格所以我們現在是按照我們的法規的規定來辦理嗎市場上面有跟業界討論所以是用這個現在不一致了現在的話我們是用剛才那個評鑑指標來對是用評鑑指標嘛但是法規不一樣嘛那現在這個標準不一樣那要怎麼去確定要去處理"},{"start":5430.33,"end":5452.26,"text":"我覺得我不是把所有的這個loading都放在你身上你是不是可以找國發會做一個平台把環境部找來把經濟部找來相關的部會找來我們來談一談到底官方的真正的標準是什麼你如果沒有一個標準的話就很難指標化嘛你沒有一個指標化你透明化也沒有意義啊對不對"},{"start":5454.001,"end":5479.543,"text":"所以從根本的做起的部分是這個嘛主委請你費心一下另外我還有看到金管會今年說還要提出所謂的金融機構房票率的參考指引主委這個部分你的基本態度什麼時候要做我們現在是不是上次應該最近就會發布那個原則了對應該最近應該就馬上會發布那個原則最近啊最近是"},{"start":5481.229,"end":5495.944,"text":"是第二季以前嗎我記得這公文我已經簽了對已經簽了所以說應該這一兩個月就會出來了嘛那類似的指標呢它是不是會擴大所有到永續報告書的這一些公司是不是這個"},{"start":5499.005,"end":5499.565,"text":"主委主席"},{"start":5516.798,"end":5544.852,"text":"就是有關於這個公司治理的部分啦有次報告書當中的公司治理當然就是以你本來的這個主體公司為主但是你的主體公司當中呢你有一部分的這個取儲啊成立了子公司之後好像子公司就獨立化了可是子公司獨立化他只要經過一次取儲他都到外面就變成一個那個整個外部的交易隨便他取儲啦主委"},{"start":5545.987,"end":5570.78,"text":"你如果內部交你還有一些規範喔那外部沒有喔可是明明這是原來那個母公司的一個資產那你成立子公司成立子公司以後你就不管他了對可是他成立子公司如果成立一家還好他如果成立一二十家那不是變相的一種掏空嗎是變相的違反你的內部的內積內空的一個治理的範圍嗎是對這部分的現象我不需要主任你的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":5571.4,"end":5596.697,"text":"報告委員我想對於這個案子我們有一些案例發生以後呢其實我們對於我不是跟你談一個個案而已我是從個案看到通案喔就是因為我們從這個看到的就是說我們現在的規定只給予母公司本身但我們現在實質在作業上交易所這邊會針對這個子公司一起來做一個考量只是說我們現在也在研議說要不要修我們的政交法把子公司整個納進來我們正在研議中"},{"start":5598.138,"end":5624.175,"text":"研議把子公司納入整個資產取儲的一個範圍納入這個取儲範圍當中才會有變相掏空的一個嫌疑嘛那同樣的道理啊你在資產取儲的部分會影響到內積內空的情況底下那是不是有可能先行把這些子公司的部分呢把它納入這一個永續報告書的範圍也就是簡單的講呢就是把這個ESG的部分把它家族化"},{"start":5625.555,"end":5649.724,"text":"他既然公司可以集團化了那你為什麼不要求ESG把它家族化的可能性呢我們現在是不是那個金融機構已經把所有子公司納入但其他上市櫃公司我們是不是還沒嘛對我們反正這個未來永續報告金融機構有因為我們金融機構公股銀行就成立一個ESG大聯盟啊那我是說你基本上你應該複製或是擴大嘛"},{"start":5651.525,"end":5669.031,"text":"那複製擴大的情況底下簡單的講就是一個家族化的概念嘛那你如果說有集團式的公司的話你是不是可以用這種方式把集團化把它家族化把ESG不是單純一個母公司的事情而是集團化的事情來有以大小的方式來建構這個ESG的這個標準跟環境"},{"start":5670.737,"end":5686.066,"text":"這是一個目標因為我們商會公司其實牽涉到範圍非常複雜不像金融業比較單純假設金融業實施他有這個經驗我想我們在持續優化這整個比如說永續報告書的值跟量我們這部分我們當然可以來"},{"start":5687.006,"end":5688.646,"text":"在未來優化過程中考慮到"},{"start":5709.268,"end":5719.183,"text":"新興病或中性病的部分你剛才提到就個案的部分你好像傾向不評論可是就政策上您的態度是怎麼樣?"},{"start":5720.605,"end":5742.629,"text":"按照我們金控法第18條我們本來就有一個金控診病的條文這個本來就當初在制度設計就已經考慮到任何一個金融機構或金融相關事業本來就有入場退場的規定那我們尊重市場的機制當然我跟你講因為金控的規模都比較大這個還有現在公平會的職權這部分其實我們在還沒有收到任何正式的文件之前我們真的"},{"start":5743.109,"end":5744.83,"text":"財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員金隆率所屬相關單位就財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員金隆率所屬相關單位"},{"start":5759.299,"end":5776.49,"text":"鼓不鼓勵嘛這個要看個案還是看個案你沒有政策你只有個案因為就等於說我們只要對市場的競爭力跟你不覺得台灣的銀行太多嗎其實銀行太多其實我們透過金庫的整併你不覺得需要整周一個亞洲級的然後來打亞洲盃嗎"},{"start":5777.641,"end":5796.875,"text":"這當然是一個我們可以想像的目標但是其實上我們有很多的條件必須滿足啦對啊但是規模至少是一個基本的條件嘛我很希望看到主委的基本的政策態度啦謝謝主委謝謝委員的指教謝謝謝謝郭國文的質詢下一位請王宏偉委員質詢"},{"start":5805.37,"end":5834.078,"text":"好 謝謝主席我先請我們財政部長莊部長請哎 莊部長委員好好部長 下面今天也有很多我們公股、行庫的董事長和總經理在今年的3月底由國發會、經濟部還有找了財政部要求我們公股、行庫要參與我們整個的離岸風電三支一旗的連帶案"},{"start":5835.762,"end":5854.708,"text":"因為現在離岸風電當然現在是我們的能源政策的一個主力可是我們的宮古航庫對於參與連帶它未來離岸風電的前景有所疑慮所以在3月底曾經邀集了八大航庫一起來談論"},{"start":5857.228,"end":5865.573,"text":"事實上就是請業者喝咖啡啦希望他們能參與那我想了解一下到目前為止這個案子的進度如何跟委員報告就是有關這個事情我知道有國發會還有經濟部邀請我們宮古行庫一起去參與這樣的一個"},{"start":5876.503,"end":5900.039,"text":"其實第一個是讓大家了解到離岸豐電的一個發展情形因為在離岸豐電的聯打案我要知道進度對不起因為我時間關係我要知道到目前為止進度如何目前為止還是銀行還是我們跟銀行在自行的一個在評估所以到目前為止就是我們目前八大行庫還沒有決定要去參與離岸豐電的三正一期的聯打案"},{"start":5902.621,"end":5913.984,"text":"就我所知我並不清楚我可能要看看行庫的作業對好時間暫停一下那麼到底我們財政部能不能確定我要知道現在的進度到底參與了還是沒有參與還是站在評估中"},{"start":5920.456,"end":5934.4,"text":"應該是評估中還正在評估中那我就不花時間請這個航庫的董事長總經理上來說明了我覺得這件事情跟我們其實長期以來包含我們今天的討論內容也是一樣我們當然鼓勵我們的"},{"start":5936.701,"end":5937.862,"text":"當然因為我們現在包含離岸風電的價格實在太高了"},{"start":5965,"end":5969.284,"text":"他們現在開出說一度店6塊錢你這個價格是連台積電都買不下手的因為台積電說這個6塊錢他們是買不了的所以如果連台積電都不能買那未來他的買主在哪裡所以他的財務報告要怎麼樣來做評估所以我在這邊要特別講的是新政府上台以後"},{"start":5987.122,"end":6010.405,"text":"我要拜託的是不要再像舊政府那個時候已經即將卸任但是呢這麼重要一個連帶案找了這麼多的行庫事實上就是給行庫施壓呀所以我要講的就是請尊重銀行的他的一個風險的評估權好不好所以我希望財政部在這個部分也能夠把關可不可以"},{"start":6011.254,"end":6011.855,"text":"有請彭主委"},{"start":6032.52,"end":6056.77,"text":"委員好部長跟主委我想現在在兩部之間我們市場非常關心的就是我們當沖的稅率是不是要繼續調降那麼要調降的話要調降多久那麼很難得我在執行這個問題的時候大部分財政部就金管會那現在你們兩大巨頭都在這裡"},{"start":6058.032,"end":6058.934,"text":"有關於當沖降稅的常態化我想請問一下我們的莊部長現在我們財政部的態度是什麼"},{"start":6066.833,"end":6087.607,"text":"還是認為常態化不可行還是說你們要有所讓步委員您說的常態化意思就是說降了再降降了再降一直降就是說在期限上就在適用的時間上我想這個部分對於有關租會租稅的一個優惠它必須要有一個實現而不可能是成為一個常態化的傾向"},{"start":6089.048,"end":6090.47,"text":"這是納稅者權利保護法的一些規定就是這樣子好,那麼現在金管會呢對於當沖稅率的降稅那麼現在又提出要再延長5年那麼"},{"start":6103.115,"end":6127.5,"text":"現在財政部的態度是什麼對於金管會的一個建議意見他們其實在年初的時候就有到財政部那對於有關當沖降稅這個事情社會各界都有不同的意見有贊成的也有質疑的那對於各界的意見我們都收集以後我們對於有關質疑需要釐清的部分也再請金管會這個部分再做一些評估以及給我們一個更詳細的一個資料"},{"start":6129.735,"end":6139.679,"text":"部長跟主委我覺得這件事情因為顯然財政部跟金管會各自站在自己部會不同的立場到目前為止還沒有一個決斷那麼我先講一下我的態度第一個我的態度過去幾次在我們的財務會講得非常清楚我並不贊成當沖稅還要繼續的減半而且要繼續延長五年"},{"start":6156.365,"end":6159.848,"text":"因為我覺得從2017年開始一再的延長而當時所要達成的一些效果事實上都已經看到了我覺得不應該像吃馬飛一樣覺得要一吃再吃這樣子反而對市場不健全"},{"start":6172.139,"end":6180.2,"text":"不然的話你們就回去好好的討論如果你覺得當初的稅率不應該就是應該減半你就是永久性的減半而不是一再的延長我覺得這是破壞了整個的這個稅制這個稅制的穩定性是不足的這是第一個第二個因為你們年底即將到期那我也希望兩個部會能夠盡快的做決定因為任何一個市場都是這樣的"},{"start":6201.184,"end":6227.422,"text":"它的不穩定因素越多它的不穩定因素越久對於市場至少在短期上它的效應也是不夠好的因為也許現在市場充滿一片的樂觀因為認為今晚會提出來那麼現在新政府應該不怕這個這個證券市場受到波動應該就是可以得逞可是我覺得不穩定的因素應該盡量的把它消去可不可以"},{"start":6230.21,"end":6246.828,"text":"請問一下你們什麼時候會決定呢我想這個部分金管會也在持續的收集資料那我們兩部會做一個充分的討論什麼時候可以決定嗎這個決定我想我們會再做一個討論次六月底可不可以"},{"start":6250.182,"end":6266.348,"text":"這個部分因為也涉及到一些修法如果是動的話就要涉及到法律的一些修正這個部分我想應該還要一定的程序所以你到現在都不願意去承諾我還是覺得你們能夠盡快的把它做一個了斷好不好時間暫停一下請部長先請回好 那個 主委"},{"start":6278.755,"end":6295.528,"text":"我們現在就是今天談那個我們要怎麼樣導入ESG那我也看了你們的報告那所以呢其實我們金融機構在做這個ESG的評鑑呢也非常的賣力不過呢事實上在國內甚至在國際間對於ESG評鑑的準則"},{"start":6298.51,"end":6313.846,"text":"到目前為止還有很多的討論而且甚至呢也有很多人對於他的這個信度或者信任程度其實也還帶很多的驗證那比如說這個是國際上的The Reuters Report"},{"start":6314.963,"end":6332.133,"text":"在國際上受訪者對ESG評比的信任程度事實上是下降的那因為其實這個評比很多但是呢到底這些評比可不可信其實在國際上都有爭議好我們現在看到就是說在這個國際間ESG的評比機構的監管"},{"start":6335.675,"end":6349.812,"text":"有的是用監管的態度比如說歐盟他直接用證券及市場管理局來做監管可是像日本他們並不做用監管的方式他只是由金融提出準則那我想請問一下我們ESG評鑑"},{"start":6353.53,"end":6381.112,"text":"現在市場的評鑑也很多但是呢我們也沒有什麼國家級的一個評鑑的標準那我想請問一下主委那麼未來ESG的評鑑我們金管會願意當扛把子嗎就是願意把它放在金管會這邊不管是提出準則也好或者是你們來做監管也好金管會有這樣的準備嗎"},{"start":6382.674,"end":6402.476,"text":"我想報告委員我們現階段先是由剛剛跟各位報告交易所做公司治理評鑑另外的話就現在那個研訓院他們在做那個永續金融評鑑我們是按部就班那當然就是未來假設這個政策是一個要達成我們要優化這個政策的話未來是一定會走這個政策的"},{"start":6403.796,"end":6420.744,"text":"我們其實儘管會對於國際上的制度的演變我們都持續的關注當然只要有助於未來優化我們永續金融的發展以及未來ESG的這樣的促進我想剛剛委員提到很好我們會去參酌各國的做法再來看看我們接下來下一步可以怎麼來做"},{"start":6421.772,"end":6439.43,"text":"我覺得我這個可能是一個大災問因為在國際間大家也是慢慢在摸索有的國家有的地區他覺得他要用比較強力的監管方式以免他太過混亂那有些國家覺得我也不要用作監管只要我設立一些準則就好了"},{"start":6439.85,"end":6455.501,"text":"但是在台灣我真的目前為止不管從行政院或者環境部或者經濟部或者是市經管會我到現在為止大家都是在各自做各自的每個都覺得說ESG好重要、ESG好重要評鑑確實很重要"},{"start":6457.702,"end":6464.17,"text":"所以第一個就是未來的主管單位到底是誰主管機關到底是誰他也許用監管的他也許是用比較鬆散的我覺得這個應該也是盡快的做定論那另外一個部分我覺得這也並不是今晚會的責任但是我在這邊要提出來"},{"start":6475.825,"end":6481.948,"text":"就是因為現在整個市場社會都覺得ESG很重要現在已經出現很多詐騙集團了啦我們有很多的小資族因為他希望趕上這班列車然後他們花了大錢對他們來講可能幾萬、十萬、二十萬、三十萬對他們來講是大錢然後他們認為說我要希望拿到證照結果最後一堆人被騙了因為"},{"start":6501.138,"end":6526.287,"text":"身上這個機構也也不是一個也不是一個正當的機構也沒有認證的機構他拿後來他花了大錢會發現他只是一個上課證明根本不是任何的證照所以從高層的就是我們到底我們主管機關是誰我們評鑑制度可不可以信賴到下面我們很多的坊間這些所謂根本就在開補習班你開補習班就算了最後還變成詐騙集團所以我真的覺得"},{"start":6529.068,"end":6554.284,"text":"當然我們政府一再的宣傳我們很重視ESG的這個制度的建立我們要怎麼樣的去協助等等之類的但是呢不要變成詐騙集團的工具這一點非常的重要啦因為我們每一次的這個我們質詢都要留下記錄我覺得這個部分值得包含真的包含我們的立法委員包含我們所有的官員都應該要真的避免"},{"start":6554.844,"end":6555.065,"text":"謝謝王副委員的質詢"},{"start":6581.503,"end":6586.546,"text":"主席各位列席官員主席我想先請財政部莊部長委員好部長早部長"},{"start":6596.557,"end":6619.83,"text":"今天跟明天就是最後報稅的日期截至27日統計有超過553萬件已經完成申報但是以去年總申報件數是663萬件來預估還有超過110萬件沒有完成申報部長有沒有掌握目前報稅的進度"},{"start":6623.131,"end":6634.062,"text":"財政委員報告到5月29日為止已經申報的有631萬件大概佔了全數的95%那目前還沒有完成申報的是32萬戶大概佔5%"},{"start":6638.669,"end":6663.287,"text":"631號,5月29號各地區第一線的稅務委員都還在加班所以這件事算是非常的辛苦請部長持續來掌握進度是的,我想第一個目前來說用網路報稅的也蠻多的那也有到現場去的那我們第一線同仁都會盡力的做服務讓我們的報稅人能夠覺得更便捷謝謝委員的關心"},{"start":6668.271,"end":6688.767,"text":"主席再請金管會彭主委主委好本席上任的永續金融網的網站去瀏覽在永續相關的評鑑上主要分為兩大評鑑第一種是永續金融評鑑"},{"start":6690.902,"end":6715.955,"text":"那為了要提升金融業主動因應氣候變遷還有相關風險及實踐ESG的能力那引導消費者、投資人及實體產業共同重視永續發展那今晚會聯合延續院、政經會、保發中心一起對銀行、證券商還有保險公司進行永續金融評鑑"},{"start":6717.396,"end":6743.937,"text":"永續金融評鑑的指標包括永續發展綜合指標、環境支柱、社會支柱、公司治理支柱參考國際標準還有國內金融業發展的進程因為去年是第一次評鑑相信還有很多業者和民眾對這項評鑑都感到陌生能不能請主委簡單介紹一下這項評鑑的內容以及希望達成的目標"},{"start":6746.046,"end":6768.621,"text":"當然我們已經有了交易所的做了其實成效蠻好的公司治理評鑑當然我們針對永續金融的部分我們就委請三個單位做這個永續金融的評鑑那初步第一年確實我們就只銀行證券保險大概五十幾個單位接受評鑑那我想這部分我們未來當然是"},{"start":6769.582,"end":6771.783,"text":"第二種是公司治理評鑑現行公司治理評鑑都是參考"},{"start":6793.72,"end":6809.829,"text":"公司治理原則分為四大構面包括維護股東權益、平等多代股東強化董事會結構與運作提升資訊透明度推動永續發展等近年來公司治理評鑑持續增加"},{"start":6812.096,"end":6829.781,"text":"推動永續發展、構面指標內容及權重為進一步鑑別上市櫃公司與ESG各方面的表現徵交所也依上市櫃公司永續發展行動方案的規劃以目前公司治理評鑑架構為基礎"},{"start":6832.201,"end":6841.144,"text":"參考相關國際標準以及其他推動環境及社會面向的趨勢逐步來增加環境社會構面指標及權重預計115年轉型為ESG評鑑"},{"start":6849.608,"end":6869.611,"text":"三方面的表現去評估企業的永續發展面向不同的評鑑機構會出現不同的一個評分的標準跟方法評分標準依機構不同而有所差異到現在沒有一套說一致性的標準所以我要請教金管會"},{"start":6870.452,"end":6871.353,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6888.716,"end":6902.646,"text":"那所以大家都會選擇對於自己比較厲害的部分來進行評比我要請教金管會什麼時間金管會會不會制定一套屬於金管會自己的標準來提供給企業做參考跟落實"},{"start":6905.48,"end":6908.482,"text":"交易所公司治理評鑑逐步轉為ESG評鑑每年會召開委員會"},{"start":6931.833,"end":6945.9,"text":"委員會裡邊產官學都有這個相關的標準制定好了以後我們會對外面去公布公布以後我們還會開課程就是宣導會宣導會裡邊對這個條文的解釋還有對這個實務案例怎麼去得分"},{"start":6952.984,"end":6975.815,"text":"那我們都宣導完了以後我們交給這個獨立客觀的基金會他們去做評比那過程當中呢公司如果對這個回答以後覺得沒有得分的話他們會自評那沒有得分的話他們還可以打電話跟這個基金會去討論說我怎麼樣為什麼沒有得分所以我們的這個整個制度是蠻齊全的就是說規定"},{"start":6979.557,"end":6980.899,"text":"金管會不會制定一套標準就是像剛剛表示的就是一樣"},{"start":7002.113,"end":7026.122,"text":"請獨立客觀的基金會來做一個輔導是不是這樣子就剛剛也有跟其他委員報告過我們現階段是由我們的周邊單位來辦像以教育所為例它已經辦了10年其實對市場的那個影響已經看到了再來剛才至於說未來我們要不要有政府來主辦的這樣的ESG評鑑剛剛我們也稍微看一下世界各國現在大部分都是民間的團體來做這樣的評鑑當然也有"},{"start":7028.683,"end":7030.604,"text":"綠色金融產品有一項是永續連結貸款永續連結貸款是一種跟借款人的永續發展目標相關聯的貸款產品"},{"start":7048.172,"end":7071.206,"text":"資金不受限制的永續連結貸款只需要金融機構與要借錢的企業達成共識就可以自由運用基金金融機構也可以根據這段時間內去衡量企業達成指標的成效來調整借貸的利率我想請教金管會在借貸的過程當中如何避免企業去做一個"},{"start":7072.466,"end":7094.724,"text":"表率的發聲表率就是說綠色公關和綠色行銷的手段上他去做這樣子的當一家公司或者是單位把資源跟預算投入在環保相關的形象公關活動而不是把真正的資金投入到實際上需要的永續行動當中這就是一個表率的行為"},{"start":7097.133,"end":7119.386,"text":"以臺灣的情況來講目前各銀行的利率都不算高那要怎麼透過這些獎勵的一個減碼可能也沒有辦法減太多啦剛剛很多委員也是反對減碼那這樣子要如何使企業願意以永續連結貸款來進行借貸的誘因誘因是什麼還有其他方法嗎"},{"start":7120.714,"end":7134.982,"text":"我想現階段剛剛也有請各個各個行庫來做說明就是說我們現在的永續連結的貸款當然是我們希望這筆錢的運用是在跟永續相關所以我們才會給予在貸放利率上面的優惠"},{"start":7137.263,"end":7161.96,"text":"這也是列為貸放契約的一部分那我想說這部分剛剛委員有指正說怎麼樣防止這個民不服食這件事情我想各個銀行都有他自己的管制機制那這部分的話因為貸放這個本來就是一個很專業的問題但是我們提出這個現階段還是以鼓勵為主但是至於說各個契約他們各個銀行應該有自己很就有自己的管控措施來達到這個目的好"},{"start":7166.261,"end":7188.576,"text":"各國因應氣候變遷、淨零排碳的目標,所以分辨採取相關政策設定淨零排碳目標,在2050年前實現。當然,臺灣也不例外,我國在推動綠色金融方面也面臨到許多挑戰,包括溫室氣體盤查的資訊還不夠充足,綠色以及永續的概念未明確化,"},{"start":7189.517,"end":7214.198,"text":"以及永續金融人才不足等問題剛剛其他委員也分別都有提到那要如何持續的推動綠色金融以及永續發展並與國際接軌的我們還有很長一段路要走那所以我們一定要給予企業一個最大的支持一起努力好不好這我們會朝這方向努力謝謝謝謝委員會的質詢接著我們請賴會委員會質詢"},{"start":7225.474,"end":7253.008,"text":"謝謝主席有請我們的金管會主委財政部部長趙鋒趙鋒董事長、土穎董事長有請彭主委、莊部長、雷董還有謝董委員好我想今天我們針對的就是如何精進這個ESG的制度的一個評鑑那落實到就是金融機構的一個"},{"start":7254.329,"end":7254.569,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7279.195,"end":7279.375,"text":"哪一個一定好"},{"start":7304.308,"end":7304.689,"text":"請董事長說明好嗎?"},{"start":7316.76,"end":7341.937,"text":"是不是請委員可以再指教的問題因為我正好在討論就是針對的就是亞洲水泥它在花蓮發生的前不久發生的一個火警那就是說我們土銀你是它最大的一個連帶銀行你怎麼樣來看這一個企業的一個環保議題你後續你有去關心然後你做了什麼樣的一個追蹤嗎"},{"start":7343.2,"end":7343.24,"text":"怎麼樣關注?"},{"start":7359.886,"end":7376.397,"text":"我想第一個要確認說它是不是有造成這一個多大的影響當然這是媒體報導但是這一個那你有沒有實際了解這個案子我個人沒有實際了解對不起那你下面有沒有給你報告沒有所以你也不管"},{"start":7377.737,"end":7403.082,"text":"我沒有看到這一則新聞所以你私下還會再提供我一份我想我請總經理來把這一個整理一下然後跟您做個報告好 謝謝董事長那針對的就是說我們公股銀行怎麼樣去反映就租賃公司借高利貸的這個社會責任的一個問題那在這裡我要請教就是說我們所有的一個"},{"start":7404.303,"end":7410.712,"text":"主任公司最大的一個年代換款的銀行就是我們的土地銀行土地銀行董事長"},{"start":7413.869,"end":7433.377,"text":"董事長你看在這段時間其實這三個月以來本席一直針對的主任公司的一個社會責任他不斷的不斷的製造太多的一個社會問題不是銀行竟然就是說可以做最大的最大的一個那個高利貸的一個換款"},{"start":7434.477,"end":7444.85,"text":"那甚至超過22倍那這樣子的話你作為身為一個就是最大的這個主任公司的一個換款的年代銀行你怎麼樣去看這個問題呢"},{"start":7448.39,"end":7473.344,"text":"報告委員我想在上一次的這個會議裡頭呢我有跟委員報告我也有關心到這個議題那我首先要說明的是土地銀行待放的這個給融資公司呢其實他大部分的資金呢都是放在這個太陽能跟綠色的一個電廠的一個設置所需要的資金那委員關心的"},{"start":7474.565,"end":7504.326,"text":"貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸貸"},{"start":7505.022,"end":7509.213,"text":"責成就聽起來好像他們也保證啊怎麼樣的一個保證呢?董事長,怎麼樣的一個保證呢?"},{"start":7513.635,"end":7541.347,"text":"我想大家都有共識就是說從那個公會治理的部分來制定那大家有同樣的一個遊戲規則那他們一定會嚴守好我跟你講你會後給我一份報告好不好現在這樣講起來還是非常的一個空那大家也聽不清楚那就是說其實我們的時間也有限來趙鳳營養董事長我想針對著公股銀行如何反映企業的公司化的一個管理"},{"start":7543.243,"end":7549.908,"text":"臺北天空塔遭到掏空海外股權也全部出售"},{"start":7573.864,"end":7601.061,"text":"這一個案例呢跟委員報告這整個案件我們從頭到尾都有在關注其實在去年5月我們就停止撥款因為這個案子其實他是一直在蓋只是那個股東之間的一個紛爭所以造成一些就是有一點到底股權是在哪個地方有沒有賣掉有沒有質押這個問題甚至中資的問題但是我們去年就已經掌握整個狀況停止撥款了"},{"start":7602.342,"end":7602.462,"text":"財政部莊部長"},{"start":7626.636,"end":7650.811,"text":"我們前兆豐的一個董事長蔡友才蔡友才我想這個他的一個那個就是這個掏空那沒有掏空啦那個是他等於是我們在紐約被裁罰的案子對好紐約被裁罰的案子是所以跟蔡友才沒有關係嗎現在就當我們也在追究責任那為什麼會你審判了9個月勒"},{"start":7653.913,"end":7681.667,"text":"董事長我跟你講沒有關係這個我請問財政部部長就是說在趙鋒前董事長蔡友才的這個案子裡頭趙鋒學到什麼樣的一個教訓你有沒有特別去關懷這個議題呢你看趙鋒為了這個案子就是說我們里里外外我們互了多少的一個法律的一個費用然後我們提供了多少的擔保品給"},{"start":7684.23,"end":7697.584,"text":"這個確實就是造成這個兆豐在這個社會上就是有一個非常非常大的一個負面那不知道部長怎麼看待這個事情是謝謝委員兆豐這個案子在有約分行"},{"start":7698.437,"end":7712.091,"text":"被美國當地的金融監理機關罰款那罰了非常的重那當然在國內的金融業造成了也很大的一個衝擊那我覺得這個是一個教訓就是您委員講的一個教訓從這個經驗裡面我們認為洗錢防治要非常的重是因為國際間對這樣的一個作業都非常重要"},{"start":7718.778,"end":7718.958,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7733.854,"end":7735.496,"text":"蔡永毅是我們兆豐的前總經理他竟然還有辦法什麼叫資深合夥人"},{"start":7753.191,"end":7782.691,"text":"是不是就是借貸有功所以未來我都可以做這樣子的資深合夥人所以我一直在講說我們在這整個案子裡頭我們學到了什麼樣的一個教訓這個涉嫌就是掏空的邱冠興在海外成立的一個盛景公司他邀請蔡永毅來擔任這個盛景公司的一個資深合夥人剛才我們兆豐的董事長跟我講說這個不叫掏空案"},{"start":7783.852,"end":7785.294,"text":"中間有沒有背信我們要不要查清楚呢?"},{"start":7800.373,"end":7815.765,"text":"你看這張名片這個多諷刺啊那這樣子喔對於蔡永毅這個個人的一個情況我們會在會後再完全再做一個了解是不是跟委員做報告部長我跟你報告齁這個我們當官齁"},{"start":7817.506,"end":7818.526,"text":"財政部部長翠雲,財政部部長翠雲"},{"start":7838.493,"end":7864.041,"text":"超級多那在這個過程裡頭我們有沒有一套比較好的方式可以來管理這些公股銀行的這個董事長、監察人、經理人的一個監督的力道我們可不可以盤查後續任職單位是否跟公股銀行的一個借貸有什麼樣的一個關係你不能就是說他發生事情他退下來了以後然後就是這樣子"},{"start":7864.741,"end":7864.781,"text":"主席"},{"start":7886.494,"end":7902.998,"text":"我們只能用背信去約束他們那你看出來每一件事情的皮肉都是這麼大所以就是要請各位就是對於這一個就是監督管理我們希望有信心可以把它就是整頓好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝來回有質詢接著我們請李坤成委員質詢"},{"start":7915.315,"end":7943.541,"text":"謝謝主席我們請彭主委主委好今天談這個ESG這個ESG就代表這個環境、社會還有公司治理那請教一下主委這個銀行業、證券業、保險業這個都有資本市主率的要求那如果沒有達到資本市主率的話它的永續金融評鑑有可能達到高分嗎?"},{"start":7948.583,"end":7975.023,"text":"這個指標上面應該是沒有參採這一塊什麼意思?指標上面沒有資本市主率嗎?ESG的部分因為指標非常非常多啦那我說在公司治理這部分的話沒有含這個資本市主率嗎?這個可不可以容許我稍微確認一下再跟委員報告有沒有要補充的?這不會影響到嗎?"},{"start":7976.282,"end":8004.882,"text":"現在的我們的公司治理評鑑裡面指標確實沒有含沒有含資本市主率啊?哇那如果像這個我們提到這個星光人壽啊或是這個三張美邦人壽那都沒有達到資本市主率它保持在公司治理有問題啊那沒有列到這個ESG的評鑑裡面啊其實公司治理當然跟資本市主其實這兩個觀念不太一樣當然就是說確實它衡量的角度是不同的"},{"start":8006.025,"end":8031.915,"text":"這個指標是參考誰的啊?ESG的指標?ESG的指標我想會從,比如說從聯合國開始,很多還有很多那你認不認為這個資本市主力也應該列入這個ESG的這個評鑑的這個標準裡面?我們現在的指標是有間接啦,比如說你因為資本市主力不足的話被裁罰,那裁罰就在ESG裡面可能會被扣分"},{"start":8033.476,"end":8047.957,"text":"我是認為這個東西應該要列進去才對因為這象徵一個公司的治理的問題我們對於資本市足率的要求這麼嚴格結果它沒有列到ESG的標準裡面我也是覺得蠻奇怪的請教一下主委"},{"start":8048.838,"end":8048.938,"text":"上禮拜幾號"},{"start":8076.917,"end":8088.223,"text":"一個是5月24另外一個5月165月16號是收到誰的?山桑5月24星光"},{"start":8088.988,"end":8105.629,"text":"阿對已經超過兩個禮拜了到現在還看不出來喔那先看一下比較久的好了山山美幫人壽5月16號因為有一些細節還要跟他們溝通啦尤其是他們在提方案的時候有很多的需要討論的事項這個齁根據那個山山美幫人壽在5月18的這個說明會裡面齁"},{"start":8107.631,"end":8133.808,"text":"他說他們提升資本市主力的強化計畫有三項四項一個是3億股的現金增資一個是私募普通股或特別股40億股還有這個私募國內殼轉換公司債30億元還有發行10年期累積次順位普通公司債50億元這個有包含在裡面嗎?有,它有提出來都有提出來那這個局長或是主委主委你認為這樣夠嗎?"},{"start":8137.148,"end":8142.406,"text":"主要我們還要評估他發債的可行性還有這些細節啦所以就是說認為這個50億的這一個"},{"start":8144.922,"end":8167.376,"text":"這個次順位普通公司債可行性的問題嗎?對對對,我們還在評估這個部分這個是這個美邦人壽,算上美邦人壽的嘛這個法案法說會有說出來了啦那5月16號給你們知道,我們到現在還沒有整理出一個重點給這個,因為今天其實大家都會問到啦,那那個星光人壽勒?星光人壽的部分"},{"start":8171.351,"end":8194.181,"text":"新光人壽他們也有提出來啦那我們也還在評估他的那個到底他能不能達到RBC的法定標準如果要達到這一個資本市主率的話我算了一下他們這一個5月24號董事會他的這個財務的這個改善計畫大概是會增加這個250億啦那這樣子能夠達到這個資本市主率嗎"},{"start":8199.241,"end":8211.787,"text":"有辦法嗎?就是我們要去看他的假設情境那他除了這個部分他還有一個還會再發債25億大概還有這個數字這是哪時候的事情?"},{"start":8214.253,"end":8235.811,"text":"應該會在下半年吧,下半年再加上那個債25億那這樣夠嗎?這275億這樣夠嗎?那現在就是我,它試算出來的東西我們再細部評估說到底有沒有辦法那你們心中應該有一個標準嗎?如果都達到了,都達到了這一個,譬如說它真是275億的話我只問說那這樣有達到日本市值率的要求嗎?"},{"start":8238.154,"end":8259.961,"text":"報告委員,我們還要再算一下,因為上禮拜來,我們有一些假設情境要跟他們再決定哪時候會算出來?應該是會再請他們在這個部分再有一些補充過來大概有一個期限,一個月、兩個月,總是會有一個期限我對你們有要求,你對他們有要求,期限就出來了"},{"start":8262.9,"end":8285.813,"text":"討論完之後我們會跟他溝通那確認應該一個月內會確認他們的方向一個月內確認他們的方向然後再評估說到底這個方向可不可行這個不知道要多久時間主委有沒有一個時間我想各位剛剛看到他不管三三五星光提出的方案其實這只是一個方案那實際上還牽涉到非常多的細部"},{"start":8286.721,"end":8287.561,"text":"那請教一下主委齁"},{"start":8307.831,"end":8328.871,"text":"這個星光星是星光人壽的唯一的股東那現在這個市場上有傳出來就是說有可能是個台興金會併這個星光金或是中信金要併這個星光金那請教一下如果這個上述有這個市場上面的這個傳言那會影響或是說會改善星光人壽未來的這個資本市儲率的達成嗎"},{"start":8331.155,"end":8348.685,"text":"合併是一個物理效應它沒辦法產生馬上的爭執因為它本來就是一個合併的主體當然剛才講說它的資本不足是它子公司不足當然剛才也提到了因為我們的金控基本上都百分之百持股母公司就是唯一的一人股東"},{"start":8349.665,"end":8372.996,"text":"所以這部分合併也會等於說任何一家金控合併這一家金控公司的百分之百持有的子公司未來根據金控法53條的義務所有的金控公司對子公司有增資要求都有法定籌資的義務我想這個部分應該會考慮剛剛委員提到的所有的這個都是傳聞而且他們各個公司也有出來表示意見我的意思是說"},{"start":8375.123,"end":8396.878,"text":"不論是這個臺信金或是中信金我在想我們現在標點還是在這個新光人壽因為這個2026年我們有一個保險業者接軌IFRS17的這個新的制度然後還有ICS2.0新一代的這個清償能力制度然後會造成這個售遣公司蠻大的一個資金的缺口那尤其對這個新光人壽來講"},{"start":8397.839,"end":8410.192,"text":"那有估算過啦如果在2025年之前呢這個在接軌之前呢他需要現金增至有1000多億那你如果沒有達到這一個明年沒有達到這1000多億的話他在2026年他其實是沒辦法接軌的欸"},{"start":8414.073,"end":8441.981,"text":"所以他是有很大的資金缺口報告委員剛剛您提到那個數字都是報紙寫的因為其實上剛剛講我們現在整個接軌資本新制度的話他涉及到我們提供了現在已經提供了三階段的過渡跟調適措施那其實上我們也都在試算而且這個東西最後我們是要2026年才接軌市場上有對這經驗有很多的傳言事實上都不是最後確定的數字那會比這個還高嗎"},{"start":8444.352,"end":8461.577,"text":"各個公司的條件不同我現在只關心兩家公司嘛就是星光人壽、三商人壽啊對從現在目前來看確實我們以我們現在資本氏族的條件來看確實現在是星光、三商這兩家公司是不符現階段我們的RBC制度的"},{"start":8462.901,"end":8490.649,"text":"是阿是阿好那請教齁這個之前我們的這個黃主委有對這一個新光能壽的這個董事長魏寶生有給他裁罰啦他現在好像是看在你的面子上他有放棄了這個行政書應該不是這是他們自己考慮的結果跟你沒有關係就對了跟你沒有關係不是因為說是因為你們這個之前有曾經有有這一個他當這個金融總會秘書長的時候你是副秘書長不是因為這層關係"},{"start":8494.135,"end":8511.151,"text":"今天談ESG,其實ESG是一個好的生意有很多金融的產品都是掛ESG,但是很多是掛羊頭賣狗肉我看到你們有ESG的指引,這有確定了嗎?"},{"start":8514.042,"end":8523.25,"text":"我剛才跟其他委員報告過我最近幾天剛批的一個公文最近應該會發布是怎樣?你們有這個金融機構房票率參考指引嗎?"},{"start":8524.605,"end":8543.997,"text":"我們對於各種的不管是文字描述或是很多的認定我們都有寫更清楚的指引給大家參考這指引能不能給我們一份沒問題因為你簽過了嘛沒問題給我們一份好謝謝謝謝主委謝謝委員謝謝李坤成委員的質詢接著我們請李彥秀委員質詢在武力法委員質詢之後我們休息10分鐘"},{"start":8549.895,"end":8555.576,"text":"感謝召委我可不可以邀請我們主委跟莊部長有請彭主委有請莊部長"},{"start":8559.284,"end":8587.007,"text":"今天兩位都在其實非常好我先延續一下剛才李委員的問題三商美邦跟新壽的部分其實剛才主委的態度也說明得很清楚他們這兩家其實都在這個月有送出他們財務的改善計畫那我想請問一下彭主委就是說財務改善計畫送出來之後接下來如果他們沒有辦法達到"},{"start":8587.768,"end":8589.85,"text":"我們過去已經有非常明確的步驟來做這件事情"},{"start":8615.029,"end":8615.49,"text":"這兩件事情 您的立場是什麼?"},{"start":8641.94,"end":8660.822,"text":"其實根據我們保險法的規定我們在依法請他提供提出各種的改善計畫這本來就是各家公司的決定那如果藉由合併改善提出你的態度呢我剛才提到過合併不會立刻改善他的情況因為他只會把那你會同意合併嗎"},{"start":8662.284,"end":8679.465,"text":"合併我們尊重市場機制但是合併他一定會仔細分析過他們的利弊得失我清楚他也會跟你們溝通那如果在第一個階段沒有辦法達到的話你們會給予更多的監理寬容嗎"},{"start":8681.414,"end":8710.265,"text":"關融是一致性的不會針對各家公司而做我知道我問的就是這兩家你會給更多的監理看因為他們現在已經提出他們的改善計畫那可能沒有辦法一步到位你後續你們的態度是什麼?這跟委員報告一下像比如說我們根據依法請他們在一定時限內提供所謂的改善計畫這是法律定的這個並不是個寬容措施這個就是我們過去我知道要達到那如果他們提"},{"start":8710.865,"end":8712.045,"text":"請問部長你有收到今晚會的建議函了嗎?"},{"start":8740.949,"end":8756.893,"text":"金管會的建議事實上在年初已經給我們表達他們的意見他們的意見最主要就是說對於在金融特別準備金裡面的錢希望能夠留存還是在那邊2100億的部分可以留存在這個準備金裡面在存保裡頭"},{"start":8761.994,"end":8770.2,"text":"那至於未來所收的金融業稅是否要金融金額準備金額的部分他沒有意見那至於稅率怎麼樣調整朋友網拍是3%你們有討論過了嗎這個部分對於金融業稅未來要做就是說要不要怎麼調整就是今年借滿以後要不要怎麼調整我們跟金管會也有充分的討論跟溝通那方向是什麼我知道你們有充分討論過了"},{"start":8785.671,"end":8809.716,"text":"有共識了嗎?第一個我們就整個金融業的一個金融營業稅過往的一個歷史怎麼樣的演變以及歷次的調整的原因是什麼我們先去做了一個探討那第二個金融業稅對於整個我們金融業的國際競爭力以及部長這個我都清楚我們都做討論沒關係我都清楚你我都清楚你只要告訴我答案就好因為我等一下要問ESG這個我們這個部分我們還是在繼續討論當中"},{"start":8813.317,"end":8825.23,"text":"有沒有支持金融委員會的建議書的意見嗎?金融建議書裡面對於我們要放在金融準備金額的部分我們基本上是支持的就是還是會放在2100還是會放在存保裡頭那到底降到2%、3%有共識了嗎?我們2%或3%或者是幾%我們這個部分我們已經還在討論以及做相關的試算"},{"start":8834.12,"end":8860.721,"text":"也在試算當中所以還在磨合當中就對了有機會有共識不是2%就是3%但是不知道是幾%也沒這麼說我只是說調降為幾%那你什麼時候會對外公布這個部分也跟法律的修正會有關係所以我們必須要完成相關的一定程序我知道大概是什麼時候總是有一個時程表如果要修正的話我們一定會依照法律我們會做預告的"},{"start":8861.081,"end":8886.197,"text":"因為年底到期嘛所以大概是什麼時候因為法律修正案這個會期7月中大概是什麼時候對那因為整個要到金融業所以這個部分是到年底那所以我們會應該會在年底之前一定會有一個年底之前一定會有結果下個會期下個會期一開始就會送預估應該會在下個會期是一開始就會送到7月15號嘛那預告都還要60天啊"},{"start":8888.238,"end":8916.592,"text":"所以下個會期就一定會送一開議就會送部長請回我請主委主委接下來我還是要問一下ESG的制度的評鑑策略昨天您到我辦公室我們第一次見面溝通的時候我有跟您提到ESG的部分我們目前在著重的部分都在環境保護ESG的部分跟公司治理的部分在社會責任的部分"},{"start":8917.779,"end":8943.047,"text":"我覺得有更多加強的地方昨天我們有討論到那當然我覺得這個ESG會可以隨著環境的變化需求可以有一些調整的空間那我昨天也跟你提到就是說當然政府的職能有限預算也有限譬如說在我選區裡面您過去從學校校園出來你非常知道公部門的預算有限所以"},{"start":8943.707,"end":8969.882,"text":"有沒有機會在評鑑的部分好比說在我的選區裡面過去的小學台美國小它就是一個在工業區裡面的學校校舍很破舊環境也不好那當然經過大家的努力現在環境好一些所以我一直在思考說在企業的社會責任裡面有沒有機會在我們的這個公務的預算政府職能或預算不足的部分再加一個評鑑的項目在裡頭"},{"start":8973.793,"end":8994.123,"text":"這個我們有兩個方向剛才跟委員也包括我們有一個就是公司治理評鑑另外一個永續這個金融評鑑那剛才提的應該是公司治理評鑑現在我們在做為了要轉型做ESG嘛那這部分的話我想我們的指標是隨時滾動的啦隨時滾動調整所以主委這個部分有沒有機會納入滾動式機動的調整來支持這樣的一個項目"},{"start":8999.326,"end":9000.086,"text":"主委你個人是否支持這件事情"},{"start":9014.27,"end":9035.961,"text":"政府的職能有限,對於公立的...我當然是持支持的態度啊謝謝主委因為它是ESG裡面的一塊嘛感謝主委你的回應喔主委我接下來還是要請問一下就是剛才委員也有提到其他委員也有提到包括金融機構房票率的參與指標的部分當然我們現在對於大家都在做這些"},{"start":9037.602,"end":9037.702,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9060.832,"end":9081.977,"text":"會不會管理的作為會是柔性的勸導還是未來我們會做開罰的動作因為這牽涉到包括刑罰也好還是罰款都罰得很重但是包括在公司治理公開發行的公司裡面他也要做永續的申報書包括他也要揭露氣候的這個相關的一些資訊跟資料"},{"start":9083.818,"end":9087.861,"text":"在財報跟煙霧文件裡面如果是虛偽的記載我們就擔心說這個是涉及到刑罰跟財罰非常的嚴重所以我才請教部長對於現在的要求你們到底是柔性的勸導還是未來就要開始執行"},{"start":9110.719,"end":9127.576,"text":"謝謝委員剛剛提到那個指引就是那個現在只是一個我們叫做指引那指引我們會試行一個階段然後我們再考慮按照我們過去的步驟大概是不是納入治理規範逐步而來看因為剛開始做可能需要一些調適跟調整"},{"start":9128.777,"end":9150.26,"text":"好那再來剛才委員有提到說這到底有沒有涉及到所謂的刑責其實我們剛剛也有報告過我們現在的比如說這永續報告書是交易所他提供的這樣的要求他還沒有納入到我們剛剛這裡面這所謂的那個文件就法律規定的文件裡面當然假設他納入年報的話那個大概就是有這樣的一個效力"},{"start":9152.762,"end":9174.76,"text":"謝謝主委您的回應因為我關注到司法院副院長賴英兆其實之前就有寫了一篇文章他說永續報告書所揭露的資訊必須真實無期如果內容造假自然就應當負法律責任那最重的可能還要達到10年的刑罰所以金管會我才問金管會這邊您的態度到底是什麼"},{"start":9175.22,"end":9176.681,"text":"謝謝委員 謝謝李燕秀委員的質詢接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢"},{"start":9212.551,"end":9213.113,"text":"有請專部長、有請彭主委"},{"start":9224.614,"end":9248.733,"text":"委員好我想首先恭喜兩位繼續跟行政團隊一起打拼那現在重點就是我想很多的委員所提出來的問題在這邊我再請莊部長回覆一下有關財化法現在正在財委會即將審查所以財政部的立場會不會提出行政院的版本"},{"start":9250.275,"end":9276.178,"text":"跟委員報告目前並沒有行政院的版本因為我們還在進行有關各地方政府對於這個分配指標的一個我們必須要有一個共識所以我只有一個要求因為委員會已經要開始出審了那我們昨天已經跟要求主計處的新的主計長希望能夠在委員會審查的同時請財政部也配合一件事情就是"},{"start":9277.339,"end":9304.377,"text":"先以111年的預算決算來做一個在目前財務委員會裡面的16個版本每一個版本的公式可能影響的內容跟金額請你們做一個試算做一個模組出來讓我們大家在委員會審查的時候各個委員都可以看到假如用A版本會變成什麼樣B版本會怎麼樣會影響到多少我想這個可能在財政部也配合"},{"start":9305.217,"end":9319.178,"text":"處理的情況下大家可以看到比較完整的輪廓是我知道委員您的意思但是我們在試算的時候我們可以用某一年的一個時增數來算對不對那所以我們有算出來各個版本中央要試數增加試數這個是有數字"},{"start":9321.221,"end":9348.47,"text":"但是在分配的部分因為版本裡面的相關指標並不具體不具體的情況下你在計算上就是你先把可能各版本尤其是像營業稅要多少留在地方這些東西可能先計算出來那個有計算出來的這個部分就麻煩你也提供給本席我想這個也是將來在審查的時候部長你也必須要回應的東西但是在分配的部分事實上橫向分配可能各個指標沒關係那個就是要討論的內容"},{"start":9349.71,"end":9373.466,"text":"好 第二個部分就是那天主委剛上任我就問過主委一件事大家今天要同時問一下部長財政部其實在111年大家在討論說現在的很有名的叫做網紅然後網紅要不要科稅科稅的模式所以你們去做了一個研究報告網紅獲利模式跟嚴定中所稅的課稅規範這個報告在112年4月就已經出爐了"},{"start":9377.208,"end":9401.627,"text":"那現在希望這個報告的建議事項是要提供一個所謂嚴體網紅科稅須知或問答集的QA但是我還沒有看到財政部的問答集也沒有看到QA也沒有看到科稅規範我們先看到了金管會針對網紅做了一個非常有可愛的定義來主委你現在那天問你你說你不知道什麼是網紅現在你知道了嗎"},{"start":9404.871,"end":9405.191,"text":"金管會網紅定義"},{"start":9417.321,"end":9441.233,"text":"知道了我們金管會是因為太多的投信投顧業他應該要取得執照才可以做相關的所謂的解析但是我們現在的網紅每個都是投資專家每一個都在他的社群網站上面可以告訴大家哪個股票很棒哪個什麼事情很好所以投信投顧業他定了一個定義網紅你們找不到是嗎那我唸給你聽好了"},{"start":9442.293,"end":9452.732,"text":"常態性與網路．包括但不限社群媒體．影音平台或線上媒體．發表資訊內容供大眾閱覽．並以此引力者．也就是他引力為目標"},{"start":9455.014,"end":9482.406,"text":"那請問莊部長,你們的網紅定義出來了嗎?基本上我們沒有所謂的網紅,也就是說你們出了那個報告研究了半天,所以沒有網紅這個定義我們重點是在於你透過網路去直銷貨物或老物,你有所得要怎麼課稅那這個課稅我們現在命在,剛剛委員也很清楚,我們在訂相關的規範那這規範大概原則有了,那細節的部分我們還進行要訂得更詳細,那未來會讓他非常的詳細的"},{"start":9483.166,"end":9483.426,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9502.301,"end":9524.079,"text":"投信投顧其實不是最多網紅的問題其實現在最多的部分代言的人叫做虛擬資產虛擬資產運用各種不同的網紅在網路上面不斷的宣傳因為虛擬資產沒有管理辦法所以幫他代言更沒有管理規範如果我們真的要規範不是只有規範投信投顧"},{"start":9525.08,"end":9539.289,"text":"接下去的虛擬資產現在有一堆網紅在做代言目前虛擬資產又沒有知道原則所以基本叫做無法可管所以我今天要說的是就剛剛主委說的我們要課稅原則"},{"start":9542.802,"end":9569.435,"text":"金管會針對你們所定的投信投顧還有接下去的虛擬資產我覺得要一起納入管理也就是說你們兩邊的定義可能要去討論一下而不是片面一個單位來做認定兩位同意嗎我想就稅的部分剛剛提過就他這樣網路銷售他的定義跟你的定義還是要一定的討論網紅那個就是大家普通的通知也不知道什麼是網紅"},{"start":9570.7,"end":9584.957,"text":"因為你們的報告我看到的是你們就是要去討論網紅獲利模式所以現在又不是網紅所以只要網路通過的你們就來討論所以部長你可能要在麥克風前面講是就是說我們是"},{"start":9587.099,"end":9606.047,"text":"委託研究那個是一個名稱但是事實上在這裡面我們未來課稅沒有所謂的網紅就是你透過網路去銷售貨物老屋依照現行的法規要課什麼稅我今天指的目的就是希望他的定義清楚目標明確第二個該納管的要納管而不是只有投信投顧在納管虛擬資產完全沒人管"},{"start":9607.009,"end":9619.299,"text":"主委你了解我的意思剛剛委員提到我們現在虛擬資產是有那個指引只有一個指引但是沒有任何管理辦法所以即使是幫他代言因為現在這樣的狀況跟詐騙其實是有連結的"},{"start":9624.904,"end":9653.565,"text":"我們希望要納管就認真的納管而不是掛一漏萬好 另外一個問題就是上一次我有質詢郭部長新清安貸款當然是我們新的政策對於居住正義很大的幫助那新清安貸款我們上次也問過了問了一些問題今天主委新來我們就來一起再問一次因為新清安貸款它有一個很重要的要求要求自住所以自住裡面它就不可以所謂的租出去"},{"start":9654.506,"end":9670.052,"text":"所以在受信的過程中我上次問的部長是說現在銀行都會要求會徵信也會去看現場但是事實上有沒有做到實質的徵信今天應該是各行庫的董事長跟"},{"start":9671.693,"end":9671.713,"text":"兩位"},{"start":9699.131,"end":9726.43,"text":"跟委員報告新清安貸款如您剛剛說它有好的一個政策意義但是不是被人濫用拿去做所謂的投機這是最重要的一點它變成人頭它變成拿出去轉租對這是不可以的那所以這個部分呢我們第一個要請公股航庫對於我們用清安貸款貸出去的這個對象我們可能要去分析一下它真正的情況搞不好還跟你申請了還跟內政部申請了租金補貼或者是貸款補貼"},{"start":9728.111,"end":9746.561,"text":"對,所以我們會用相關的資料來做勾結我想這個部分我們後續會來做好,一樣的就是我們希望這些給年輕人的善意的政策不要讓年輕人成為炒房的工具甚至用納稅人的錢去做了這些補貼最後變成這些包租工"},{"start":9747.361,"end":9747.861,"text":"現在市場上面普遍"},{"start":9775.592,"end":9790.412,"text":"民眾因為沒有對於相關的資訊不是很完整所以他會受到網紅的影響而且影響力很大這個影響力連金管會信投顧這邊都非常的謹慎同樣的虛擬資產我希望包括"},{"start":9792.134,"end":9808.978,"text":"財政部我也希望你們擬出來以後類似的人不管他是哪個行業都應該是一視同仁而且該怎麼做就怎麼做所以主委你不能只管投信投顧啊你可能要連虛擬資產的網紅要一起納管如果要納管我們可能就要全面性的納管兩位可以嗎"},{"start":9809.707,"end":9812.389,"text":"所以主委,研議要快一點,因為虛擬資產已經是一個成熟的市場了"},{"start":9828.763,"end":9829.664,"text":"謝謝黃珊珊委員的質詢 接著請吳立華委員質詢"},{"start":9861.331,"end":9864.517,"text":"主席好有請金管會主委有請彭主委"},{"start":9870.731,"end":9892.385,"text":"委員好主委好今天委員會特別安排如何精進ESG制度評鑑、永續報告書及公司治理評鑑制度導引金融機構落實放貸及貸後管理工作的專題報告那我跟主委說這個會期初"},{"start":9895.587,"end":9915.02,"text":"3月4號的時候其實我也有就這個部分來質詢我們的前金管會主委那當時呢我是提到當我們談ESG的時候我們是提到環境永續的關心還有企業的社會責任"},{"start":9918.643,"end":9932.354,"text":"金管會提出的綠色金融行動方案3.0公告的這些我有特別問這個永續到底有沒有包含原住民族的金融"},{"start":9934.187,"end":9949.188,"text":"我特別有提到幾個國家像是澳洲主委您應該知道他們有建立原住民的金融服務辦公室有關注原住民金融架構設計跟服務的包容性"},{"start":9949.989,"end":9970.567,"text":"有鼓勵金融機構讓原住民更容易獲得銀行的服務有強化對原住民有益且適當的保險產品並且在投資者的淨值調查過程中有尊重原住民的權利、知情同意"},{"start":9971.989,"end":9991.908,"text":"紐西蘭的土地跟我們目前台灣原住民土地是一樣的它有限制所以難以做擔保品所以他們就辦理計畫跟銀行合作支持開發針對這一些原住民土地貸款的解決方案"},{"start":9992.984,"end":10016.536,"text":"在加拿大他們也是加強原住民族在永續金融的參與其中提到綠色與轉型的金融他們對於不造成重大損害評估的時候有包含尊重原住民權利和和解反觀我們提出的綠色金融行動方案3.0好像"},{"start":10018.917,"end":10048.252,"text":"沒有辦法看到這些有關原住民族參與跟支持的機制更遑論去考量綠色融資對象影響原住民權益的情形所以呢我在跟主委報告的時候就是說過去可能沒有人關注沒有人提醒那我們現在關注現在提醒所以我請金管會要聯同原民會"},{"start":10048.972,"end":10075.031,"text":"去參考澳洲、加拿大、紐西蘭這些國家在永續金融架構中納入尊重原住民族權利的具體措施來修改綠色金融行動方案並在三個月內提出那我要跟主委您說我要謝謝因為還沒有到三個月我已經收到金管會的回函了"},{"start":10077.973,"end":10083.138,"text":"1.兼顧原住民保留地發展及維護生物多樣性2."},{"start":10083.138,"end":10087.162,"text":"鼓勵銀行協助原住民取得資金3."},{"start":10087.162,"end":10091.627,"text":"研議原住民保留地設定擔保的可行性4."},{"start":10091.627,"end":10093.989,"text":"協調銀行積極配合辦理政策性貸款"},{"start":10094.79,"end":10119.616,"text":"第四提升多元族群權益的目標納入永續金融評鑑指標第五協力金融教育推動小組提升原住民族群的金融教育推廣好那我要請教一下主委您看過這個回覆的內容了嗎這個內容是應該是我昨天還前天我一個字一個字看完才記得"},{"start":10120.436,"end":10123.237,"text":"同仁們針對委員所提的各種的訴求他們都有想盡辦法去回應比如說他對於這個元寶地的貸款"},{"start":10138.163,"end":10156.44,"text":"他們也提出很多的其他的建議比如說希望未來跟原民會做合作比如說能夠像我們講因為銀行在待放需要有透明的價格資訊希望我們也協調比如說內政部能夠在實價登錄能夠放上原保地的交易價格還有提到就是說我們也看到了也有金融機構已經"},{"start":10157.361,"end":10159.262,"text":"主委,謝謝您的回應,非常的清楚那我是要再做一些提醒,好還要更好"},{"start":10187.441,"end":10204.626,"text":"我舉個例子銀行可協助原住民參考永續經濟活動認定參考指引來認定永續經濟活動的要件我們進去細看我以原住民的觀點去細看"},{"start":10205.882,"end":10205.902,"text":"是"},{"start":10222.476,"end":10235.769,"text":"現在小型露營場合法化很多原住民針對林地、農牧用地他有做最低限度利用開發的小型露營場他也是一種低碳跟循環經濟的活動,對吧?同意對齁,好那我要講的就是說他應該是適用永續經濟活動認定參考指引的,沒錯吧?"},{"start":10247.879,"end":10266.945,"text":"委員這個可以允許我們處長來跟您回答這個問題好 謝謝我只是要提醒我們原住民這些經常性的普遍性的經濟活動也要了解啊要不然寫一堆以我來講我都不知道到底我適用哪一條所以這個部分是不是可以來討論"},{"start":10268.645,"end":10282.783,"text":"先跟委員報告一下就我們目前了解就是原住民這邊大概比較有興趣的包含像是對再生能源例如說像光電板的建置然後像剛剛委員這邊所說的這個碳補桌的部分其實可以看那個右邊前瞻經濟活動"},{"start":10284.485,"end":10284.765,"text":"單保品會是什麼?"},{"start":10310.865,"end":10333.24,"text":"這個可能就要看銀行這邊他們所以我說我們原住民這些適用嗎我想這個部分我只是做提醒主委您應該明白我的意思我理解又舉個例子來講像增加銀行的誘因那當然董事、負責人、高階經理人鼓勵強化高階人員金融友善教育訓練"},{"start":10336.045,"end":10351.113,"text":"檢視現階段提供的金融服務兼顧弱勢族群的需求很好很好但是主委我覺得當我們來到銀行窗口何待的一線人員您覺得重不重要"},{"start":10353.141,"end":10367.69,"text":"這個其實每個環節都很重要對 所以我就是要提醒那我們都提到弱勢族群但是第一線的人員或者銀行他會如何去定義弱勢族群他可能以為是老人啊他可能以為是青年啊"},{"start":10368.59,"end":10369.311,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":10384.648,"end":10407.721,"text":"但是你已經回覆了以要求評鑑小組將原住民放款的指標列入未來評鑑項目並請原民會提供嚴定的建議謝謝真的是見急履急主委你真的很不錯那我是希望說請金管會兩個月內能夠去重整原民會的意見跟本席提出的這一些疑議檢討現有"},{"start":10409.482,"end":10409.702,"text":"財政部長"},{"start":10439.912,"end":10455.338,"text":"部長我是想要請教因為我也問過很多次財政部是不是已經將乘坐元寶地放貸納入公股行庫的ESG評鑑指標並列為加分項目提高公股銀行乘坐的誘因跟意願有了嗎"},{"start":10456.218,"end":10483.863,"text":"委員這個建議很好但是我們會在有關相關目前的一個建架跟信用保證機制建立完備讓公股行戶可以去做這個事情以後我們就會把你預期大概多久那這個部分因為建架的部分涉及到內政部那信用保證機制原民會這邊也在努力我想這兩個部會都在努力我們把這個地方建立起來大家都在努力中公股行戶可以做的時候把它放起來那我就舉一個例子來我們之前有一些"},{"start":10485.043,"end":10485.263,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10503.837,"end":10524.498,"text":"那最近今年3月的高雄市也有一個拉瓦克部落的拆遷那陳其邁市長也很棒他直接說原住民是台灣土地的主人從優安置也給予333的安置那我現在要請教在屏東88風災後這一些安居在永久屋的族人吶"},{"start":10525.319,"end":10551.579,"text":"有一些他們並沒有辦法取得房屋因為是1比1所以他們希望釋出一些空地讓他們自己蓋那我現在就是想要請教啦那我們現在如果原民會願意提供信用保證那我們能不能夠比照我剛才談的那些其他國家他們的永續金融中心像紐西蘭他們有在協助這種原住民的自立建屋啊"},{"start":10552.279,"end":10574.423,"text":"因為現在政府已經提供基礎建設的經費現政府也釋出土地讓他們使用現在要面臨貸款今天應該很多銀行都有來我就想要當著財政部長您的面我問一下請問在座的根股銀行你們有沒有人願意主動承接貸款業務有沒有舉個手部長你看沒有呢有沒有獎勵措施有沒有誘因"},{"start":10584.161,"end":10585.024,"text":"有了嗎?臺灣銀行?好!謝謝!臺灣銀行感謝您!"},{"start":10589.571,"end":10589.951,"text":"我們休息10分鐘"},{"start":10636.989,"end":10639.291,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11219.858,"end":11232.004,"text":"好我們繼續開會請相關人員就座保持宿敬以方便我們議會的進行接著我們請王世堅委員質詢"},{"start":11253.003,"end":11257.129,"text":"謝謝主席,我先請金管委彭主委有請彭主委"},{"start":11264.912,"end":11284.406,"text":"黃主委有三種刷卡消費延後24小時生效這是我們金管會現在針對打詐要祭出的新的策略遊戲點數、錢包組織、電子禮券我認為金管會有欠缺考慮為什麼"},{"start":11286.227,"end":11312.262,"text":"打詐要從抓源頭開始結果你先從處罰使用端開始這不是很莫名其妙嗎尤其電子禮券這是我們一般小市民的小確幸欸電子禮券很多商家餐廳他們主打的就是急買急用買多優惠"},{"start":11313.656,"end":11316.617,"text":"金管會自己關起門來決定欸 你們自己關起門來 你們"},{"start":11339.859,"end":11349.556,"text":"這個完全沒有找相關的比方說這個電子支付業者你完全沒有啊你們只有信用卡委員會自己開會"},{"start":11351.144,"end":11377.099,"text":"5月8號你們開會就決定啦5月24號你們只是通知通知相關業者你不是找他來開會喔那很扯的是現在這種遊戲點數定型化契約欸這個要談這個很好但是你應該橫向溝通找數位部一起來商量啊不是這樣子嗎結果我問了數位部他說你們都沒有找他商量過"},{"start":11378.668,"end":11390.432,"text":"這很莫名其妙我認為現在對使用端懲罰是懲罰了小市民這四個字形容啦這個叫矯枉過正所以彭主委我認為儘管要管對管大的事情"},{"start":11397.881,"end":11414.31,"text":"法律要對強者有效不是去對小市民對強者、惡劣者能夠懲罰他們制裁他們社會才有公理不是這樣嗎你剛才好意思說有啦我有設一個3000塊的限制門檻天啊"},{"start":11419.249,"end":11433.594,"text":"我們小市民就只能在3000塊裡面打打轉就對了我說人頭的管理兩年前我們通過要下架投資詐騙的廣告"},{"start":11435.322,"end":11450.955,"text":"一年前去年的4月以後通過網路投資廣告這個實名制通過以後彭主委當然啦這你現在才上任我讓你知道一下這些慘況我四個字形容越打越炸通過以後光是光是111年6542件37億的詐騙金額"},{"start":11464.076,"end":11467.977,"text":"隔一年更多11,775件53.7億你剛剛在跟我談那個3000塊去年今年我就講今年今年光一到三月就3316件尾數300件去掉平均一個月1000件今年啦預估會到12000件預估金額會被詐騙60億天啊你剛剛在跟我談3000塊"},{"start":11495.02,"end":11497.042,"text":"我認為說這些是現在嚴重的情況要面對它那這個前幾天要問啊這你還沒上任前啊"},{"start":11508.868,"end":11534.778,"text":"大概兩個月前那問軍管會那軍管會說六月底前就五位投資廣告的實名智慧上路結果啊結果處發部啊處發部在前天的回答他說光是改這個系統要八個月天啊彭主委你回去查一下齁到底是你你們軍管會說的六月底上路還是要八個月"},{"start":11538.61,"end":11538.771,"text":"主席時間暫停"},{"start":11549.848,"end":11573.148,"text":"總部長這個要談到這個ESG齁我認為齁剛剛大家談很多了啦這關於環境社會責任公司治理這個ESG的這個表格那我認為齁要真的落實才有用啦不是說啊有ESG表格那大家就填一填高高興興這樣填一填這個"},{"start":11576.465,"end":11580.086,"text":"不落實我就四個字形容形同虛色不是嗎你這樣子的表格我舉幾個例子啦就是我們公營行庫我們公營行庫合作金庫啦合作金庫"},{"start":11599.662,"end":11619.255,"text":"這個受信申請的案件我光講2022年到今年4月他受理54959件這個受信案件涉及ESG的有984件結果沒有核准受信的只有4件只有4件"},{"start":11622.037,"end":11644.467,"text":"喔 我不曉得這些借款的 而且借的金額都很大這些借款可能神通廣大吧那第一銀行也是啊他有900光去年有986件涉及ESG風險也是只有4件 抱歉 剛才合作禁錮還少一件 三件三件 因為這個"},{"start":11650.728,"end":11670.528,"text":"第一銀行4件沒通過986件你只有4件沒有通過已經明顯涉及ESG風險喔然後你還其他的你通通通過你連增加他利息加碼都沒有就給他通過那你在ESG在審什麼呢"},{"start":11675.206,"end":11684.111,"text":"那我就舉這個一項標榜自我標榜說是他這個模範銀行華南銀行也是華南銀行更扯涉及ESG風險的案件他零件每一件都通過華南銀行在搞什麼呢董事長總經理有沒有來"},{"start":11700.376,"end":11706.257,"text":"莊部長在你任命了嗎?時間暫停,董事長總經理都有到,要請他們上來備詢嗎?張董你們懷疑記稱是模範銀行欸董事長總經理,回去檢討一下你這個ESG的表格是做來給大家看一看交差了事的嗎?"},{"start":11730.865,"end":11754.525,"text":"臨界捏臨界捏要不然你好歹就我剛講的嘛你硬要給他通過好啦那你至少加一加他們的利率不是嗎不是嗎所以你們把這個問題帶回去你另外再回答我好不好那個部長你任命的喔董事長總經理像這樣的董事長總經理你就應該跟他們"},{"start":11756.884,"end":11774.281,"text":"記個小過啦好不好好啦兩位請回我另外謝謝委員指教那我想在這裡有沒有核准的案件的件數但是也有有條件通過的包含他有核檢他的核代金額或限制整整條件也是有的有加注條件也有加注條件的所以我們另外處罰是"},{"start":11777.332,"end":11784.654,"text":"不核准這個最嚴重要不然就立即加碼是其次嚴重再用好加注一點條件給貓掛鈴鐺就對了我剛剛講的議員我剛剛為什麼提議員你知道因為最扯的議員他還是我們ESG推動的時候還負責召集所有公股、行庫"},{"start":11803.997,"end":11811.647,"text":"來推這個倡議平台那倡議什麼倡議他們說這個表格大家參考參考是這樣嗎所以議員的責任更重大好不好議員這還算是也算是模範理論那我剛剛為什麼說"},{"start":11823.993,"end":11831.518,"text":"法律要對強者、惡劣者去制裁才對為什麼我就舉例嘛ESG我就舉我就講這個新復發建設"},{"start":11834.783,"end":11860.524,"text":"因為大家耳熟能講新復發建設除了這個終結這個案子其他從南到北高雄、台中、桃園都有他的案子到板橋、台北這從文興、愛樂、經貿中心、中山、珍藏這名字我就不念了他光這裡面一兩個案子都"},{"start":11861.843,"end":11881.508,"text":"由趙鋒、海外營業、在內供股銀行連帶他111億這麼明顯的他這些案件每一個我剛唸的每一個案件都有公安少則火災重則啊工人意外墜樓三個五個這樣不幸身亡"},{"start":11883.148,"end":11884.629,"text":"數條山兄弟數條山兄弟"},{"start":11911.633,"end":11917.737,"text":"我就兩句話講他 剝削客戶權益違反社會公義這是不是嚴重的涉及ESG風險結果我們九大公營行戶還連帶給他2600億剛才彭主任你還跟我講對三頭小民對他們的設限你說啊 3000塊"},{"start":11940.049,"end":11941.41,"text":"謝謝王世堅委員質詢接著我們請羅明采委員質詢"},{"start":11978.959,"end":11987.422,"text":"主席、各位委員、出列席、官員大家好主席、有請彭主委、還有莊部長有請彭主委、有請莊部長委員好部長好那其實ESG我們都希望永續的發展"},{"start":12000.404,"end":12027.367,"text":"但是在普惠金融這一塊我想最近很多委員也都是跟本席一樣非常的關心我們發現整個金融的發展跟布局大概總歸的講就是肥了大企業瘦了小老百姓的確很多的民眾因為M型化社會的來臨"},{"start":12029.207,"end":12046.17,"text":"辛苦的非常多舉個例子主委我請教你啊股市現在都已經漲到2萬點 站穩2萬多點可是真正賺錢的行業大概百分比有多少你們有沒有算過當股市到2萬點的時候我們發現傳產的一些"},{"start":12054.167,"end":12054.427,"text":"現在我了解一下狀況"},{"start":12079.003,"end":12093.735,"text":"對,希望主委,因為你剛剛來啦齁,其實身負重任我們希望說社會的和諧、永續是平均把國家的資源照顧到每個人的身上我知道很辛苦,謝謝也是講求利潤"},{"start":12100.029,"end":12125.619,"text":"但是不要忘記了沒有過去的努力沒有過去的農民沒有過去的傳統產業撐起台灣一邊天這些好的電子公司也不會有今天的成就啊當我們看到AI的時代來臨時候我們看到Jason Huang他回到台灣來我們看到很感動"},{"start":12127.182,"end":12154.264,"text":"因為他是臺灣人啊臺南人啊不只他蘇之鋒還有第四名的Charles全部都是臺灣人啊臺北公專畢業的啊這都不容易啊但是提醒主委跟部長當他們撐起一片天總市值超過接近三兆美金的時候"},{"start":12155.677,"end":12181.938,"text":"我們要主動的跟他們聯絡請他們有機會不要忘了台灣這個地方生他養他育他的地方多多給台灣機會特別是應該多給台灣的年輕人機會主委部長我想請問部長一下我們的八大公股銀行裡面平均年齡是多少"},{"start":12190.823,"end":12212.589,"text":"這也是請兩位上來的原因之一我們的一些公股銀行不斷地老化呈現的就是老業凋零都是一些老人反而我們看到一些新興的一些金融產業年輕人都很多"},{"start":12213.902,"end":12241.994,"text":"包括電商交易也好包括Fintech比較在沙盒裡面都是一些年輕人可是我發現政府的政策都是保護過去的老思維比較多就過去怎麼做就是照本宣科所以銀行、董、總永遠都沒有求新求變更恍然"},{"start":12243.53,"end":12257.904,"text":"永續的這個經營的一個思想主委我想請教一下國外的數據來說整個GDP裡面金融的分配佔比大概是怎麼樣"},{"start":12259.588,"end":12279.44,"text":"我所掌握的資料台灣現在是大概是佔GDP的6%左右6%那其他可能我們周邊可能將近兩位數字兩位數對所以從這個兩位數的成長我們就發現台灣的金融要加油所以莊部長"},{"start":12280.851,"end":12308.589,"text":"金融營業稅從5%要調降到2%或者是有人外界解讀的3%部長什麼時候開始推動?金融營業稅的部分其實就是銀行業的還有保險業的本業的部分其他的部分目前大致都是2%那至於這兩頁要不要做調整我想我們跟金管會也都在充分的討論當中"},{"start":12309.821,"end":12336.778,"text":"好 謝謝那你們兩位現在都在阿你馬上討論阿這個那麼簡單就是說你要降到3%或是降到2%數字你們有沒有彼此有沒有加line我們會你把所有的數字一傳見面那麼大的官員見面就是政策方向要不要確定要不要定案省下來的稅金要做什麼樣的使用"},{"start":12337.618,"end":12363.261,"text":"是不是來多多加強整個所有金融人員的訓練?或者是多多銀行要鼓勵他們來加薪啊?是,委員您的建議很好,我們都會納入這個考量。部長你知道,剛剛有提到華南清空也好,和庫清空也好,他們在公股銀行裡面表現,算還是中上,前段班的,"},{"start":12364.332,"end":12384.627,"text":"可是你知道,他們跟富邦、跟國泰、跟一些外商銀行的薪水差了多少?舉例,核庫的董事長好了,他一個月薪水大概多少?我不曉得他一個月薪水多少?男人在啊,你馬上問就知道了啊。"},{"start":12388.085,"end":12402.578,"text":"新展銀行新加坡總經理董事長一個月薪水多少?那一定也是比我們高嗎?高多少?高多少?不知道啊。心理你要知道說整個市場的變化"},{"start":12403.621,"end":12421.352,"text":"才知道應該怎麼選任新的人來擔任新的事務是部長請問你最近已經到了六七月公股銀行有幾家準備要進行董事長總經理的改選"},{"start":12423.147,"end":12429.993,"text":"今年會有三家銀行哪三家三家就是兆豐嘛兆豐有沒有來第一還有台企銀還有三家這個部分要做改選目前來說他們會在6月21號召開相關的董事會股東會已經到了會召開6月21號這過幾天就端午節了也跟委員報告在金融機構裡面第一個我們有"},{"start":12449.309,"end":12449.469,"text":"剛剛講的這三家"},{"start":12477.16,"end":12501.4,"text":"金控公司董總會不會換人目前當然第一個我們名單是先提列出來啦到時候還是要等到大會的你可不可以把名單讓我看一下名單可以都有公告啊有公告請問聯絡人拿給我一下可以提供給委員沒問題兆豐表現得好不好兆豐表現得不錯啊不錯啊表現得好你要需要把他換掉嗎"},{"start":12502.508,"end":12503.008,"text":"雷董會繼續做?"},{"start":12514.108,"end":12530.128,"text":"這個部分我想還是要等到整個大會議那易營的呢?易營的金空董事長目前是邱董事長是表現得好不好?也很好啊那你有沒有問他要不繼續擔任啊?我沒有問他啊你馬上在啊你問一下時間暫停問一下"},{"start":12533.516,"end":12559.917,"text":"還是等一下再問他上來是要回答委員問題不是回答我的問題人事是你在決定如果我決定我馬上我就說繼續留任因為他以前在新加坡待過而且表現也非常好非常的圓融企業大家都很稱讚他而且賺錢賺得很好賺很多義營旗下義營證券都已經破紀錄對不對"},{"start":12561.718,"end":12572.706,"text":"那個EPS都創新高啊都很好的人選啊那還有哪一家台企銀台企銀董事長是劉董事長"},{"start":12573.473,"end":12579.219,"text":"臺慶過去快要瀕臨7塊6塊,已經是10塊保衛戰了,現在漲到多少錢?好的不得了,以前零千號每天無名無利"},{"start":12594.634,"end":12622.031,"text":"到了10點我問他說你怎麼還不下班他說他一定要把台慶帶動起來所以當林董事長他遭到核酷然後因為太累了然後生病過世了我覺得心裡非常的捨不得啊所以部長拜託啊好的人選你要多多鼓勵然後鼓勵他們要多待一些栽培一些年輕人"},{"start":12626.213,"end":12647.346,"text":"我認識的金融機構有一家居然喔平均年紀才27、28歲或是電商啦所以我們都希望說 主委啊我們把門打開你第一天來的時候大家寄予眾望希望你是帶動整個產業蓬勃的發展過去大概幾個字可以行喔就是"},{"start":12648.564,"end":12661.377,"text":"保守有餘 開創不足希望在主委的領導之下你是讓大家可以看到亮眼的成果的好不好好 謝謝謝謝羅明台委員的質詢接著我們請陳鈺貞委員質詢我們也開放現場用餐12點了"},{"start":12677.605,"end":12679.172,"text":"有請財政部部長莊部長"},{"start":12685.245,"end":12711.154,"text":"是委員好部長好上個月22號本席有在這裡質詢您有關於這個金門自來水廠向我們財政部地方建設基金借貸2.4億那現在基金解編嘛那金門縣政府希望財政部配合水利署進入水利府撥款期程展延還款的期限那並且在虧損撥補前不要扣我們縣政府中央統籌分配稅款那您那時候表示要研議已經一個月了現在進度怎麼樣呢"},{"start":12712.639,"end":12727.93,"text":"這部分我們的國庫署也有跟金門縣政府的財政處都有了解過那這個部分他們其實金門縣政府他也表達的非常就是說他會再去研議那當然他還要跟他們的縣府來簽辦這樣子要怎麼樣的方式來對於這個2.4億怎麼樣做償還"},{"start":12734.857,"end":12757.085,"text":"因為這是幫水利署墊的啦然後你也知道這個民生用水這本來是中央的事項我已經講過很多遍不是我們金門地方政府應該負擔的所以也請你不要從我們的統籌分配款來扣啦用什麼樣的方式我們會跟金門縣的財政局處理好好的溝通聊幾句經過每年的這個撥補的差還有限還是我們還是要出一點啦"},{"start":12757.925,"end":12757.945,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":12776.03,"end":12776.17,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12794.884,"end":12808.442,"text":"很多民眾的反應怨聲載道我們了解說你們說一台X公機你們說那個已經到8年了本來打算買嘛後來是說因為等到旅客要等到新的這個遊客中心做好才開始做所以讓舊的先撐著用是這樣嗎"},{"start":12811.369,"end":12817.491,"text":"來說我們會在114年的時候會優先買兩台那就四台本來去年就有編這個預算嘛X11真的沒有多少錢那只要故障因為還要找台灣的人過去維修所以會非常的慢"},{"start":12827.035,"end":12855.817,"text":"那這非常慢的情況下就造成大排長龍又每次只要壞掉就上全國就上新聞啦對我們關務署的這個形象也不好嘛對財政部形象有損傷嘛本來就要買了那就應該買到時候買了搬到新的遊客中心再搬過去就好也不是大工程嘛110年那一台也是會壞掉啦是不是是不是盡快這個沒有很多錢為什麼不馬上買呢我們請關務署說明一下好請那個署長您說一下好嗎"},{"start":12857.078,"end":12881.675,"text":"報告委員,我們現在都有編列預算,今年也編列了兩部S光機預算我們進門地區的嗎?是不是今年的話就...那我們盡快趕那個招標的一個程序,希望在年底前能夠處理每次如果到時候萬一開放入客,或者是暑假有很多人在那裡來來去CIQS,而且那個海關事實上真的蠻忙碌,那個地點很小"},{"start":12883.436,"end":12883.716,"text":"金門地區設立銀行"},{"start":12903.976,"end":12904.036,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12924.528,"end":12932.773,"text":"也這個普惠金融來講讓大家有比較容易接近的那那個你們在做這個ESG相關的你們在做這個評比我看到金融機構對這個相關產業的壽性的這個評比裡頭有考慮到這個ESG那你們在做自己的銀行的評比裡頭對於這個在金門去設分行這個這是屬於社會性的這個部分有沒有列入相關的這個考量啊"},{"start":12951.275,"end":12975.702,"text":"關於公股行庫的部分我們其實在金門應該設的分行算是應該比民營銀行就我所知我們大概至少有4家在金門地區對那其他的民營銀行有也有幾家啦也有幾家是不是那我們在那邊總共是有5間公股銀行在金門有5間的我要說的就是說我請金管會請這個主委上來一下"},{"start":12978.246,"end":13002.699,"text":"上回我也在這邊有問所以我們要鼓勵這個你們儘管會在評比這些像比如說金融機構給這個壽信給這個民間壽信的時候你們會考慮ESG就是說社會性也是考慮一樣所以我上回應該是跟黃主委也有說過就是說那你們在鼓勵金融機構到我們這些離島偏遠基地區去設分堂的時候它的獲利不會那麼好有時候會"},{"start":13003.439,"end":13003.819,"text":"財政部和金管會對這個意見怎麼樣?"},{"start":13024.871,"end":13026.352,"text":"金管會是不是也是一樣財政部大概管這個"},{"start":13053.021,"end":13076.397,"text":"公股的嘛那民間銀行其實也是一樣啊這個我們也可以來研究啦也可以研究因為說給一些政策的時候有一些你要給他一些好的政策的時候是不是因為他有照顧到我們這個離島啊偏遠這些地區的時候給相關的這個的這個加分啊適時的鼓勵他們不然有的比較像我們這種比較遠的地區很多人不願意去做嘛這個列入包括包括"},{"start":13077.398,"end":13077.678,"text":"金管會主席"},{"start":13100.581,"end":13119.107,"text":"這個應該是財政部的綠能產業受那個風險氣候風險影響對這個客戶還款能力有影響導致違約率上升或是單保品價值下滑對金融機構的信用風險產生影響那請問你們要如何兼顧這個兼顧風險對引導金融機構兼顧風險原則下那那個引導他們投入這個金融的這個產業也投入這個綠能的產業有關綠能產業的部分"},{"start":13129.241,"end":13149.211,"text":"金融機構在做貸放的時候他一定會要根據他的5P原則以及風險的評估都要來做考量那至於投入綠能相關的產業的部分我想這是國家的一個政策那我覺得金融機構在做的時候也不能違背相關的放款的一個基本原則那綠能有關綠能產業有列入國家六大策略產業的計畫裡頭吧"},{"start":13154.193,"end":13182.584,"text":"是綠能產業的發展是很重要的所以我想請問金管會我們上個禮拜在修那個應該是兩個禮拜前在修那個投資信託的投顧相關的這個法律的時候我們那時候是要求說就是在修這個不動產這個REIT的證券化的時候我們那時候有一條那是那時候您還沒有到的時候有一條說不動產的這個部分我們是要求說在裡頭加上這個基礎及基礎設施"},{"start":13184.145,"end":13209.872,"text":"您了解我的說法,就是這個部分因為我了解這個世界各國在這個部分這個不動產證券化裡頭事實上很多基礎設施啊日本啊很多其他的國家都也已經有列入這些項目在裡頭所以我們上次在修法的時候那時候金管會對這個一直有一點意見那如果您針對這部分是不是回去可以研究一下因為國際上的整個趨勢是這樣子您了解我的說什麼嗎"},{"start":13210.572,"end":13237.491,"text":"我去了解一下就是這個部分的話就是整個那時候在修這個整部法令的時候那時候金管會一直的主張就是說一定是要什麼這個不動產的話一定要是什麼土地及其附著物但是在世界各國這個不動產證券化的這個項目事實上除了核心的部分以外事實上也還包括了其他的這個項目所以在這個法令的修正部分本身還會再提出相關的這個意見希望這個"},{"start":13238.732,"end":13238.872,"text":"黃國昌委員"},{"start":13269.275,"end":13273.196,"text":"謝謝主席,事實麻煩有請新管會主委有請彭主任委員好主委好,第二次見面是我想,IMB所造成整個社會的動盪家破人亡一堆人欲哭無淚這個主委應該都有掌握"},{"start":13298.921,"end":13322.213,"text":"現在被害人真的有關於這一些曾耀峰等等還有他的共犯集團的人啊刑事訴訟案件啊正在臺北地方法院啊審理當中但是到後端審判的時候大家都知道一件事情啊到後端審判的時候錢幾乎都追不回來了啦"},{"start":13323.2,"end":13343.579,"text":"都做不回來了啦大概就是看他被判多久附帶民事每個人發一張債權憑證帶回去吊在牆壁看著債權憑證哭啊大概這個故事可能會這樣子啊收尾好但為什麼這件事情啊重要今天要提出來問主委因為"},{"start":13345.117,"end":13365.013,"text":"P2P到底要不要管 要怎麼管這件事情在上一任的政府的時候啊 態度反覆 態度反覆從一開始2016年 要積極的研議 要設專法突然到有一天的時候 政策大轉彎"},{"start":13366.511,"end":13392.31,"text":"什麼都不管了 什麼都不管了什麼都不管 造成的悲劇就是什麼造成的悲劇就是這麼多人受害然後詐騙的首腦跟這些高官權貴吃香喝辣人民看不下去啊現在不是只有IMB囉來 我們繼續往下看P2P再度爆雷 碎心科技發出聲明"},{"start":13393.736,"end":13422.157,"text":"暫停提領出金、再權再轉讓來,數星科技所發生這一個新的導致很多的被害人可能血本無歸、血藏無門這件事情金管會有沒有去了解?委員可不可以那個允許我銀行局長來問一個問題?可以,請那個主委我跟您講一件事齁您剛上任我一定給你時間所以一開始你要找別人代打"},{"start":13423.257,"end":13450.954,"text":"除非是政策的問題我都會同意但是過一段時間以後就不可以這樣了主委這樣可以嗎理解君子之約來請局長報告委員蓄芯科技它被這個移送喔那其實我們在之前在訂定指導原則的時候我們有對不起請針對問題回答蓄芯科技的事情你們有沒有去了解我們也有從報紙上了解"},{"start":13451.494,"end":13468.913,"text":"所以你們了解的方式是閱讀報章雜誌跟我一樣因為他不是我們監理的機關那他是誰監理的機關你講到重點了他不是你們監理的機關他是誰監理的機關經濟部嗎所以我是不是應該去問經濟部部長有沒有去了解請回答"},{"start":13473.398,"end":13493.511,"text":"我們就是透過之前我們有瞭解他們的營運模式可是後續檢調去調查我現在不是在問你檢調的問題吧我剛問你說我請教你有沒有去瞭解你說沒有你看報章雜誌因為你們不是主管機關那我就問你誰是主管機關嘛我這個問題應該要問誰才對嘛請您針對問題回答有這麼困難嗎"},{"start":13499.585,"end":13517.185,"text":"他目前就是依照公司法設立登記的機關所以你們所頒布的那個自律規範因為只是自律規範嘛因為只是自律規範嘛所以你們也不是主管機關嘛那問題就來了你們也不是主管機關你憑什麼頒布自律規範啊請回答"},{"start":13523.174,"end":13546.522,"text":"報告委員因為這個在我們行政院那邊其實有說明了就是說我們將來會是P2P的一個統籌我們會整合各個部會一起對這個P2P的業者所以現在誰是主管機關目前還是按照一般經濟部登記了那怎麼會我們因為他的沒關係我下一次會去問經濟部部長希望新的經濟部部長會擔起來說主管機關是我沒有錯"},{"start":13551.623,"end":13571.894,"text":"為什麼我特別作曲這個案子?因為這個案子現在像滾雪球一樣越來越大囉!越來越大囉!好!這個書信科技在他停止出金所謂停止出金就是說我現在沒錢啦!我沒有錢可以還你們啦!來!我們來看一下他的聲明來來來!這個聲明局長你有看過嗎?"},{"start":13578.516,"end":13599.125,"text":"還是因為不是你們主管所以連聲明都沒看過報告委員他是被起訴了之後我們才有接到申訴的案件對 所以我問你他最新的聲明停止出清就是停止還錢以後的聲明你有看過嗎有 我從報紙上有看到你要看人家的聲明就到人家網站上去看嘛來我唸給你聽喔"},{"start":13601.937,"end":13628.269,"text":"他說什麼他說齁黃天牧近期在面對質詢的時候說網路事業借貸指導原則沒有法律效力不遵守也不會有罰則這個黃天牧說的我知道因為是我問他的所以那個自律規範有什麼用有法律效力嗎可以當請求權基礎嗎他說沒有辦法但你看這個業者他接下來講什麼話他說"},{"start":13629.52,"end":13652.33,"text":"接下來我本來跟新加坡有合作連新加坡都不跟我們合作為什麼不跟我們合作來看一下新加坡的金管局對當地金融服務更是用完善的法規做高度的監理對於類似的平台早有相關的法規以及對應的牌照在考慮過相關法律風險以後新加坡的合作方決定終止跟我們合作"},{"start":13654.051,"end":13671.1,"text":"這個是藉口還是真正的理由可以被檢驗但重要的事情是什麼但重要的事情是他直接在說我們政府人家是有完整的法規有監理有牌照我們什麼什麼都沒有什麼都沒有"},{"start":13674.929,"end":13687.991,"text":"主委我只請你回去思考一個問題跟銀行局的同仁思考一個問題金管會的立場未來是不是繼續用自律規範在您的任內喔因為接下來發生的全部都是你的鍋了"},{"start":13689.045,"end":13714.355,"text":"回去想清楚要繼續用自律規範還是要像其他的國家一樣建立好監理央行把各國的監理系統監理的方式都幫你們金管會做好功課了全部都整理出來了現在大家只在等金管會一個政策立場是要繼續自律規範不關我們的事還是要有一個清楚的立場出來主委這樣可以嗎"},{"start":13716.067,"end":13716.667,"text":"主席"},{"start":13749.439,"end":13759.584,"text":"主席,在場的委員先進,列席的政府監管長官員,會長工作夥伴,媒體記者女士先生,有請財政部莊部長和金管會彭主委。有請莊部長,彭主委。委員好。部長好,主委好。根據我們剛通過的藐視國會法,如果質詢超過,你們答詢超過我們詢問的範圍,主席要制止,甚至要罰款,是不是這樣?"},{"start":13777.338,"end":13795.715,"text":"你們知道啦當然主席根據我們的議事規則如果詢問的人也超出範圍好像主席要制止啊來那個我還是跟我們的ESG有關第一攤電視臺灣公建的解方促減碳要綠色融資配套我來看一下這是過去呢因為那時候兩位部長跟主委都還沒商量請看下一頁"},{"start":13796.155,"end":13819.319,"text":"我當時呢在財委會質詢過當時的財政部長跟當時金融團體主委就透過金融機構協力引資來落實ESG我以大潮州、屏東大潮州的人工湖其實在場的很多工股、行庫的副總有去過可能現在都當總經理了齁那麼就是透過優惠貸款我們可以讓政府呢去投資去興建這樣的一個綠色公共建設那麼促商的過程當中也可以讓民間建設來參與請問主委跟部長都認同這樣做法嗎"},{"start":13822.942,"end":13849.414,"text":"認同好認同那我們看那ESG呢我基本上我就不再介紹了這裡面能源管理跟溫室氣體排放是現在的大宗往下看那麼現在呢我們的台灣的競爭對手的工業減碳的措施跟投資其實你看到在台灣啊政府有投入但是呢在建廠補助跟綠色貸款的部分目前相較於日本跟新加坡我們是沒有的好那接下來我們往下看那麼氣候變遷的因應執法呢碳費三執法呢它有一個重點"},{"start":13850.194,"end":13874.904,"text":"他說我們碳費是經濟誘因不是財政工具所以碳費以成本來促進企業碳減量但是有沒有提供財政方面的誘因來減輕事業的負擔呢部長你覺得有沒有政府目前有沒有提供目前目前財政的誘因啊我直接告訴你我是看不出有啦那主委你覺得我們有政府提供相關的誘因嗎"},{"start":13876.934,"end":13897.748,"text":"也還沒有啦好往下看那至於其他國家呢歐盟、CBAN還有美國的清潔競爭法案基本上都是針對的基礎工業原料那麼基本上呢他就透過一個CBAN的憑證科探關稅美國也差不多如此歐盟已經2026號實施了美國還在進行中那我們看到淨零碳排跟企業發展呢台灣目前"},{"start":13899.289,"end":13927.827,"text":"包括中國、日本、韓國、新加坡的貿易對手70個國家已經實施了探定價那我再強調一次探定價不只是為了淨零碳排在臺灣更有我國臺灣出口產品競爭力的差別是不是部長同意、主委同意?是的好 那我們往下繼續看那美國的部分呢在歐盟的CBAN大概就這樣我就不再贅述那碳執法、碳費執法三個的部分呢已經上路了那碳費呢有在環境部公報那往下看那美國的事情呢有一個很重要的關鍵了"},{"start":13929.168,"end":13949.861,"text":"電力使用．在生產的時候使用的電力的排碳有被納入計算．好再往下看．電力來了．最近國安會主委不斷地問說．標題寫不排斥重啓核能有三原則．第一臺灣的用電供電夠不夠．第二最關鍵的低碳電夠不夠．然後才是2050淨零碳排的目標．請問一下部長你知道什麼是低碳電嗎．"},{"start":13952.085,"end":13965.315,"text":"應該就是那個排碳算是要比較低的主委也是了解低碳一般我們都把它直接稱為綠電我往下看因為綠電有爭議目前核能算不算核電算不算綠電部長你的看法呢"},{"start":13966.226,"end":13985.342,"text":"核電算不算綠電?那我就了解因為在國外的時候對於這個碳排放的一個足跡裡面它會有一個R1-100但是核電裡面它並沒有納入R1不承認核電那請教主委彭主委那可是歐盟卻將核電有條件的視為綠電請問你知道什麼是有條件的綠電嗎?"},{"start":13986.755,"end":14009.946,"text":"我知道綠電有條件我沒有去研究他條件是什麼OK好那我這邊就跟大家做分享其實就是核廢的最終處置場必須跟人類的生活圈永遠隔離目前最接近的只有芬蘭之前的童子賢董事長一直在提芬蘭的OL3不是OL特別便宜OL3特別便宜或OL3的沒有核廢掉純粹是因為他在芬蘭才有可能核電被採用往下看"},{"start":14010.726,"end":14034.444,"text":"所以如果綠電的需求持續增加綠電夠嗎?那麼這裡面提到了說未來AI會計算力的需求會增加三成以上用電需求但是一千度的用綠電只有一度是中小企業搶到請問部長或主委目前高科技產業或者中小企業綠電是不夠那未來的需求我們繼續成長綠電你覺得趕得上產業的需求嗎?"},{"start":14038.905,"end":14062.142,"text":"你覺得目前就你們所知臺灣的綠電增加?綠電這個部分我們其實這幾年都非常的一直努力在做那要看如果照國發會主委說AI的發展他事實上用電量可能會更大那就要看綠電能不能跟得上這樣的一個成長速度好 那麼主委呢你覺得呢臺灣目前要解決用電問題核心關鍵綠電那綠電的成長趕得上我們的需求嗎?"},{"start":14063.004,"end":14086.492,"text":"我同意剛剛部長的意見好 很好 那我們現在看來 簡單講 財政人員憑證這幾年2017年到2022年已經發出了350多萬張其中指數性的成長 證明過去在風光發電的部分提供了這些綠電憑證成長的基礎所以結論 臺灣的用電需求 終究要靠綠電用低碳的電力來解決但是 有一個問題來了 就是今天跟ESG有關的下一頁"},{"start":14087.432,"end":14107.681,"text":"就說為什麼中小企業買不到綠電因為所有的財政人員業者他在發電設備的投資上要銀行去做貸款銀行團要求這個發電業者呢販售對象他賣電給誰這個對象要有信用平等那必須符合兩項之一一個是中華信憑的評定那麼3B或者是A"},{"start":14108.268,"end":14109.149,"text":"臺灣的中小企業符合這個標準嗎?我這樣講你們有理解嗎?"},{"start":14122.714,"end":14139.143,"text":"為什麼我說綠色融資這麼重要?現在在場的工股行鋪這些銀行他們會貸款給誰?給這些再生能源的發電業者但是發電業者他的客戶他賣這個綠電給誰?必須這個客戶本身年用電用度於5億度啊"},{"start":14140.524,"end":14167.001,"text":"所以當然中小企業搶不到綠電所以這就是我今天說的綠色融資的必要部長你回去可以請你們的財政部所屬銀行好好的評估一下有沒有辦法去解套不然的話未來這些投資的風機他未來的客戶他不會賣給小客戶啊他說直接賣給台積電的大客戶因為這樣才能取得銀行的融資可不可以要求你們的公股行戶做這個評估好那主委呢覺得有什麼方法可以解套"},{"start":14168.544,"end":14172.117,"text":"我們也來評估一下我們現在一般的銀行在這邊有沒有這樣的規定"},{"start":14173.649,"end":14201.788,"text":"好 最後的結論主席站起來請金管會跟財政部你研議未來對於企業生產設備的減碳措施提供綠色融資的鼓勵不管是補貼利息、政府的擔保或者減碳設備的免稅優惠請問這個部分大部分是財政部財政部您在這個相關的財務的持全部分可不可以給本席跟本委員一個研究的一個評估報告我們來研議是那大概可以多久我要跟國發會主委講一下大概多久可以"},{"start":14202.468,"end":14218.637,"text":"委員我們是不是兩個月可以好兩個月接受那就謝謝那麼金管理如果能夠配合的話也請金管理提供一個指引好不好好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝主委謝謝委員謝謝莊嘉斌委員質詢接著我們請鄭天才委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員不在接著我們請林楚瑩委員質詢"},{"start":14231.107,"end":14233.811,"text":"主席有請彭主委跟莊部長"},{"start":14241.994,"end":14260.37,"text":"主委你好辛苦了我知道您是從學者轉任所以說今天我想提的這個題目的部分恐怕是要您也以過去在學界的立場來回應我5月8號的時候教育文化委員會曾經辦了一個公聽會那就是有關於現在"},{"start":14261.371,"end":14286.923,"text":"立法委員們都希望推動所謂的青年基本法那麼在這樣一場公聽會當中其實是沒有特別邀請財政包括財政部或是金管會來出席但是我覺得非常可惜我接下來所提的版本會把青年基本法加入有關於如何來提升我們青年朋友的普惠金融的這種金融素養"},{"start":14287.543,"end":14301.514,"text":"因為根據這個金融研訓院所做的這個報告我們會發現20到29歲的年輕人是最無法抵抗所謂金融風險的一個世代剛剛前面的委員都在提到包括相關的比如"},{"start":14302.935,"end":14316.647,"text":"金融陷阱又或者是相關的這個未來對於自己的施壓規劃或是金融詐騙甚至於我們誤觸這種所謂的在這個投資的投資陷阱其實都是跟我們無法抵擋金融風險"},{"start":14318.43,"end":14319.09,"text":"金管會當然支持"},{"start":14343.717,"end":14369.465,"text":"我們都知道提升這個國民的金融素養過去對金管會來說是非常重要的一個部分不然不會有像金融研訓院等等但是金融生活的普查我們會發現其實不只是年輕人包括一般的民眾居然高達78.1%他們的金融素質是屬於低或極低的那麼我們都知道我們一直在推所謂的ESG"},{"start":14370.425,"end":14384.101,"text":"可是本席從過去四年在財委會我常常質疑我們的這個金融永續的報告都留於作文比賽然後大家只在乎一不是一不重要但是留於形式就會變成什麼"},{"start":14385.602,"end":14410.631,"text":"撿垃圾、辦園遊會、吃素我認為大家對一的概念已經已經到一定的水準之上但是對於金融生活的這個金融素養的提升我想問的是不論是主委或是莊部長莊部長有請我們可不可以在金融永續的評鑑指標上面來做一些進步比如說金融業怎麼樣提升國民的金融素養"},{"start":14411.331,"end":14426.097,"text":"公股行戶怎麼帶頭來做金融扎根我們在ESG我們知道這個分分秒秒不論是上市櫃公司或是金融產業都希望做一個提高分數這每加一分都非常的不容易所以"},{"start":14426.597,"end":14448.349,"text":"我想請問部長：莊部長跟彭主委有沒有可能在我們金融評鑑上面多加入把S2的普惠金融的實踐能夠具體化比如說是向下扎根或者是金融從業人員當中你有辦法去做一些協助呢我先請這個彭主委再請莊部長來回應"},{"start":14449.77,"end":14477.406,"text":"我想金管會過去對這個金融普及是做了非常非常多當然還有待努力啦我想這部分我們可以來研究啊好部長呢是謝謝委員齁那其實金管會他在去年底已經有發布一個金融知識普及及工作的第7期推動計畫是113年到115年那這個部分呢就是要擴大金融機構去參與金融教育那這要走入社區走入校園"},{"start":14478.386,"end":14497.533,"text":"讓我們的學生也好讓我們一般的民眾都能夠有一個金融的知識、常識以及涵養那這個公股金融事業也都配合這樣的一個計畫都無常的派員去當總指教師提供一些正確的金融知識我想這個部分我們的公股金融事業一直在做然後也是散盡一個企業的社會責任"},{"start":14499.634,"end":14512.976,"text":"好 所以我想要問主委我知道你們一定都會立委都質詢了也都會正面肯定我就問 主委金融永續金融評鑑的這個評鑑指標你知道是哪些單位來訂定出來的嗎"},{"start":14517.343,"end":14538.978,"text":"好,我來告訴你好了,金融研訓院、保發中心、政經會會有一個出版,然後初步的草稿,然後呢再由金管會的代表跟外部的學者來做評比。我只想問,那像這種永續金融的評鑑的指標有沒有可能去重新的去做一些定義或增加,讓"},{"start":14540.439,"end":14568.572,"text":"普惠金融或是金融素質的提升給予他們一個指標讓他們有一個方向因為你只要目標設定正確這個部分就可以達到本席提出來這個其實我是認為有現在這麼多的金融陷阱金融詐騙又或者是對於投資理財的金融小白的不了解就是因為我們的金融的有關於素質的提升不夠所以我想問主委有沒有可能在"},{"start":14568.712,"end":14571.193,"text":"在永續金融評鑑當中做一些修正"},{"start":14583.029,"end":14602.275,"text":"好因為每一年每一年都有評鑑那麼剛剛我也讓您知道了其實這幾個單位當中金管會都是上級的指導機關所以我希望金管會跟財政部公股行庫可以如何來推動有關於金融素質的提升可以做哪些協助是不是可以在"},{"start":14603.295,"end":14618.72,"text":"各個分行或者是有什麼樣的方式可以處理我希望有一份報告那麼有關於金融素質的提升包括永續金融評鑑的指標怎麼樣做精進我也希望金管會在了解之後可以來給我一份報告跟交給我們財政委員會可以嗎"},{"start":14620.149,"end":14621.091,"text":"謝謝林竹英委員的質詢接下來我們請邱志偉委員質詢"},{"start":14655.563,"end":14655.724,"text":"張化銀行"},{"start":14676.702,"end":14695.414,"text":"先請問邱董這個財政部所屬六家的我們公股銀行裡面公司治理排名第一的大概是第一金控你是如何做到的你有發表一下你有什麼心得想跟大家分享嗎"},{"start":14698.034,"end":14710.26,"text":"報告主席我想這些公司治理能夠得到這麼好的一個成績那應該是我們同仁平時對於公司治理的一個目標跟他的一個做法都落實來執行"},{"start":14713.035,"end":14739.044,"text":"那在董事會的部分呢 那我們也會把我們對公司治理的一個方向呢 要定期向董事會報告這個我可以肯定 那的確在您的這個治理之下 我想各項部長是貸前或者貸後啊 那個管理都還不錯所以才會明天前茅 那張化銀行那個雲林董事長 您是如何辦到的"},{"start":14740.903,"end":14758.053,"text":"謝謝委員的肯定那其實我們彰化銀行對整個公司治理面是非常非常的重視那在董事會下面我們也設了這個永續發展委員會所以所有跟公司治理相關的一些事項我們也會在永續發展委員會當中邀集所有的"},{"start":14758.513,"end":14787.996,"text":"因為這個委員會的召開是我們行內先召開所以所有的各層級的總行內各層級的部署的主管都要來參加所以公司治理不是只有說我們總務處或秘書處來做這些事情而已而是所有的部署裡面他們要貫徹一下我們對這個問題的一個重視所以是全行都能夠動員那執行的成果我們也會提交到董事會來讓董事會董事的成員、所有的董事們都可以知道那我們大概做了些什麼"},{"start":14788.396,"end":14790.577,"text":"從這比喻上好像女性的董事長好像比較傑出喔"},{"start":14819.522,"end":14843.937,"text":"純粹巧合我想六位董事長都非常傑出都是公司治理的搶手那我問一下這個復改會上一次召開15年前有沒有可能在最近這個整體的財經結構、人口結構、社會經濟結構有那麼大的轉變之那租稅制度是不是要與時即進做一些調整15年都沒開"},{"start":14845.655,"end":14870.766,"text":"有必要嗎?有必要在針對整體的社會結構的改變來召開副改會?那個部長您有看法嗎?是,對於稅制的一個變革我們事實上都是持續的在滾動檢討在107年做了一個大幅的所得稅制優化之後那這幾年間也都有做一些所以你這樣就做了?比如像人口結構的變化也有比如說像我們對於學前幼兒特別扣除額"},{"start":14871.479,"end":14873.1,"text":"有請金管會彭主委有請彭主委"},{"start":14900.129,"end":14919.008,"text":"主委關於油資的氾濫臺灣資金很多包括售行業包括海外回來的我們超額儲蓄也非常高投資相對是保守這種狀況對油資的管理金管會有沒有比較具體的作法"},{"start":14920.034,"end":14936.284,"text":"是,現在有關那個保險業的投資他們都根據保險法146條的相關的規定來辦理啦因為確實我們保險業過去的資金面臨到很多限制嘛就是國內的投資不足啦他只能投資國外,國外有很多這個匯損的影響對不對對"},{"start":14939.692,"end":14962.49,"text":"主要是國內的可投資標的比較少那你們目標國內的投資率會達到什麼樣的水平現在說長期都低於百分之三十那您的目標國內投資率要提高到多少這個現在的部分我們對這個數字我們當然希望針對主要是比如說引導保險資金能夠回到比如說台灣比較需要的工件"},{"start":14963.491,"end":14978.569,"text":"還有像比如說真的來支持我們的基礎建設這我們來做那至於說其實現在保險公司投資台股啊其實這樣是有投資一定的比例要導入基礎建設才是這個最重要的然後基礎建設不能靠國家的這個國家年度預算才兩兆對不對對"},{"start":14980.266,"end":14998.681,"text":"兩照你必須要靠國內這個民間的資金來參與這個國內的基建確實你要有配套你要有引導你要有誘因另外這個證交所櫃買跟騎交所跟吉寶目前各自為證未來整合的可能性跟時針表您的規劃是怎麼樣"},{"start":15002.084,"end":15024.36,"text":"主委那個抱歉剛才他傳遞資料不好意思我說明資料都有啦我的證交所、櫃買、齊交所、吉保中心目前是各自為證嘛那未來20年前就談那個整合整合有它的必要性也有它的這個競爭力的優勢嘛那你呢你單位主委你的時程規劃是怎麼樣?您的具體做法是如何?"},{"start":15024.76,"end":15046.394,"text":"這個其實我們有討論過,主要是我們有看各國這個比如交易所的整併其實啊,它並不是說都是好的啦有沒有必要性,就針對台灣的狀況其實我們現在初步的評估現在的運作應該是可以維持現在的做法啦那20年前就有很多學者倡議啊,您當也是學者出身,您個人看法呢?"},{"start":15047.113,"end":15073.379,"text":"我個人對這個是沒有過去比較少討論這件事情不過我們內部有討論因為主要是我們現在交易所有很多的那個特殊比如說他們的組織型態都不同要做整合其實上也是有它實質上的困難那你現在要成立這個金融發展局或金融發展處對不對發展重於監理或者說發展跟金融發展跟金融監理要平衡對不對是"},{"start":15074.127,"end":15100.981,"text":"那你這個金融發展局金融發展處的目前的時程規劃現在主要是這樣因為我們受限於整體中央部會的這樣的組織設計上次也有委員說能夠未來若有機會的話我們朝向成立一個部的這個方向來研議那否則我們現在就受限於這樣要成立一個局現在是有實質的困難所以我可以這樣結論就是說成立這個局有困難這是你的想法但是做不到是不是"},{"start":15101.781,"end":15107.847,"text":"現在還需要有共識啦這一塊那至於說比如金管會內呢成立一個專責的比如說我們的金融發展與科技創新處的話這個部分我們在研議中"},{"start":15119.86,"end":15120.2,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":15145.114,"end":15148.837,"text":"主席、各位官員、各位委員大家午安是不是有請金管會主委跟財政部莊部長有請彭主委、莊部長"},{"start":15171.328,"end":15199.982,"text":"委員好好 謝謝主委跟部長那我先請教部長問題今天我們在討論的是這個ESG大家非常關心的這個希望企業這個永續發展節能減碳那也要跟主委請議的問題就是說台灣現在過去已經推動了很久的這個電子發票請問您知道說推動電子發票的主要的目的在哪裡嗎電子發票主要我們是希望無紙化"},{"start":15200.509,"end":15221.861,"text":"好 第一個無紙化 第二個資料可以 我們更希望是雲端發票 也就是把發票存在載具裡面那更徹底的無紙化 那然後讓消費者不需要拿到紙本 然後讓商家其實他的資料也都可以做數位化的 不管在對比的事情好 謝謝部長 解釋得非常清楚那你請問一下 那現在電子發票它的儲存的地方是在哪裡"},{"start":15222.842,"end":15245.491,"text":"電子發票目前儲存我們如果用雲端的話就儲存在雲端沒錯部長非常專業沒有被我拷倒無紙化就是傳送在雲端所以我們手上拿到的發票叫電子發票證明簾就是說它是證明有這張電子發票的一個東西那我先給部長看一下這是我們傳統的這個收銀機的發票原本就是希望把這個收銀機的發票讓它可以無紙化可是要跟部長報告"},{"start":15246.631,"end":15274.13,"text":"這是現在一般民眾會拿到你所謂的電子發票無紙化會拿到這麼長的一條的發票請問部長這是發生了什麼事情直接跟部長分享就是財政部沒有再好好的去跟這個電子發票業者去討論明明無紙化的部分只要前面這一個把這個電子發票證明欄這一列給列出來可是你們沒有跟電子發票系統去做商討"},{"start":15274.89,"end":15301.942,"text":"把所有的交易明細甚至計算公式甚至下面還有非常多的這個銷貨資料以及促銷的東西全部都在電子發票的情況上一次印出來請問這是部長你想要推電子發票的一個目的嗎委員電子發票如果它有筒邊如果打筒邊我知道會有明細出來那另外有一大串是一些折價券、廣告不用打筒邊也會出來啦"},{"start":15303.863,"end":15308.37,"text":"所以部長我覺得這個應該是長期來問你去買東西也會發現那我是請教部長你是不是可以來鼓勵企業只要在做評證的時候只要印這個證明連出來以後底下充充都不要"},{"start":15321.027,"end":15350.078,"text":"那可是他又在宣導他在宣導的時候有辦法宣導嗎?不,他不,我覺得商家他為了做廣告或者是做兌換所以他就那你推的電子發票就是變成無紙化變成這樣我們的目的不是要這樣我們的目的是發票能夠無紙化好,那你可不可以可不可以答應本席你來努力來推動把這樣的問題讓政府來鼓勵企業只要印出這個電子發票證明證明連就好了其他不鼓勵印出"},{"start":15350.914,"end":15364.811,"text":"不鼓勵可以但是你不能禁止他因為這是他商家的我沒有說要禁止我說不鼓勵好不好尤其從上市櫃公司期的ESG應該就是要節能減碳因為這麼長的發票哪裡來的節能減碳是是是這第一點第二點我要請教金管會謝謝部長希望一起來協調"},{"start":15368.635,"end":15391.101,"text":"請教金管會的主委我看到金管會的主委今天的這個專題報告裡面在第7月第3他寫說你們要引導金融機構落實放貸及貸後的管理工作尤其針對114年起實施放款對象包含綠電及再生能源即是113年3月底放款餘額到達2.8億"},{"start":15393.854,"end":15414.293,"text":"教育111年的2.8兆教育110年底的2.45兆高達3500億請教主委這是你們的德政可是本席要這邊跟你們分享的是其實你知不知道現在目前我們的綠電公司代理已經幾家上市櫃了"},{"start":15415.936,"end":15417.937,"text":"這個容許我們請同仁查一下再跟委員報告"},{"start":15435.578,"end":15449.104,"text":"這些公司都已經上市櫃了都已經賺那麼多錢了你還要再繼續補貼而且還把這當成是你的德政所以我是不是請教主委可以分級一下上市公司已經賺了那麼多錢了你還要再補貼他多少的利息這樣公平嗎"},{"start":15450.596,"end":15477.722,"text":"對我們來瞭解一下好不好這個部分一定要瞭解第二點我對非常的不能理解的他說規範銀行辦理企業授信審核時要審酌借款或是否善盡環境保護企業誠信以及社會責任請問現在綠電的公司部分主推太陽能板以及風力發電請問太陽能板到期了以後他的這個太陽能板如何回收如何做到環境保護"},{"start":15480.384,"end":15497.157,"text":"就我了解已經有一批的太陽能板已經到齊了他如果做到環境保護以及這些綠電公司過去捐贈政治現金給民進黨的政治人物我沒有說不行可是他如何做這就是你們說的聖誕正會責任要給他低利率的原因嗎"},{"start":15498.919,"end":15522.057,"text":"這可不可以會後我再提供完整資訊給委員所以這個本席非常不能接受不能這樣子去做不好意思主席我最後再借用一分鐘全民現在擔心台電破產的有可能會破產的問題我也在這個經濟部跟他講台電有一個帳上有個合適的資產2800億已經沒有經濟效益的應該要打為損失可是他沒有辦法提供出"},{"start":15526.66,"end":15536.004,"text":"這個大家所謂所需要的為了他的產值或是處理的成本我希望這邊金管會跟財政部來協助那我要來問一個是大家比較關心的抱歉最後一個問題抱歉"},{"start":15537.489,"end":15557.341,"text":"我聽說啦這個台電非常辛苦為了要讓台灣的電力是穩定的有打電話拜託大型企業上市會公司盡量溝通盡量少用電這樣子請問今晚會的主委你有去統計去了解這樣會不會對我們的大型企業產生什麼樣的問題請回答"},{"start":15564.619,"end":15577.435,"text":"這已經不是已經是很久的新聞有沒有辦法回答最後一個問題這影響到上次公司生意的問題結果你們完全不了解那我請問一下有些企業可以拒絕有些企業不能拒絕這需不需要發重訊"},{"start":15581.363,"end":15594.913,"text":"我們現在還沒有接受到這樣的訊息沒有了解嘛可是新聞上都已經跑出來了嘛所以拜託主委部長我們一起來努力很多事情大家一起來努力好不好謝謝謝謝張志倫委員質詢接著鄭振賢委員鄭振賢委員鄭振賢委員不在接著我們請楊瓊英委員質詢"},{"start":15610.279,"end":15621.774,"text":"今天請楊委員質詢謝謝主席本席想邀請部長邀請莊部長"},{"start":15625.478,"end":15625.918,"text":"金管會主委"},{"start":15656.118,"end":15657.719,"text":"金管會對於T加1的做法,你們是不是會樂觀其成?"},{"start":15671.721,"end":15693.233,"text":"有關這個確實我們有做研議那詳細的部分我們也把一些利弊得失都做一些分析所以我們現在請證交所比如說這個部分我們會從幾個面向再討論我們已經做完這個研究我們會再來評估到底要不要採用也要觀察他們實際的那個績效我們再來決定要不要跟進這樣"},{"start":15694.215,"end":15700.579,"text":"現在實施的成效再來評估要不要用預估大概什麼時候會有一個初步方向這個目前我們還沒有定啦但是我們就說好的制度我們會盡快的來看看怎麼樣來做對"},{"start":15722.182,"end":15722.282,"text":"觀察中"},{"start":15735.063,"end":15735.523,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":15756.315,"end":15766.415,"text":"因為現在零股買會比較貴所以小資族上班族他們有這個聲音一樣買整股比較便宜我零股比較貴其他國家沒有這樣子那這個會不會改變"},{"start":15768.556,"end":15797.361,"text":"領股我們現在在針對它交易的時間我們有做一些改進啦那至於說交易的成本還有就是我們我們可以來進行國際資料的比對啦可以專案去討論嘛可以可以好不好可以專案去討論可以因為小資族有這個聲音出來我們就可以納一個專案來討論到底可不可以通通都一視同仁不要領股又比較貴因為買領股的當然是小資族嘛那我們還是要支持小資族啊"},{"start":15797.941,"end":15798.561,"text":"接下來就是我們的聯合信用卡中心的統計"},{"start":15826.539,"end":15842.411,"text":"我們看到去年被詐騙的32.4億你要怎麼樣強化我們整個信用卡風險的一個管理同時我們也知道你現在你認為說我們現在看到銀行公會檢討財政部長在這邊我們看到說他們檢討信用卡被詐騙的發掘最多利用快速移轉"},{"start":15853.546,"end":15864.172,"text":"變現金高的以及做倒刷交易的主要有三大類遊戲點數、錢包儲值、電子禮券在這樣情況之下營養公會更嚴厲出方案就是說3000塊使用會議轉24小時之後才能夠生效"},{"start":15872.856,"end":15873.016,"text":"全力圍堵"},{"start":15902.722,"end":15928.695,"text":"實踐點"},{"start":15928.991,"end":15955.386,"text":"我們可不可以請局長跟我們說明一下好 告訴我時間點好不好你們 討論幫委員 因為這幾天應該就會再開會了開完會之後我想就是一個月可以給社會大眾說繼續開 趕快開那最後一個議題再給我一分鐘好不好不好意思主委 主席部長 詐騙的管道各個部門都頭腦脹了越打越詐"},{"start":15956.667,"end":15979.276,"text":"被詐的數額越來越多所以本席要再請教民眾跨境網購的這個問題上次本席也請問了所以部長因為我們國人常常跨境購物那關稅署那要怎麼樣去落實宣導跟保障國人的權利因為民眾在進口貨物放行的隔天起6個月內填具申請切結書"},{"start":15980.416,"end":15991.148,"text":"哇那這樣子會影響有一些影響那就怎麼辦呢我們要怎麼樣怎麼樣可以去防堵去落實請教部長跟關稅署也在這邊就是說進口的貨物因為我們消費者是受到詐騙的"},{"start":15995.413,"end":15996.313,"text":"要大肆宣導27號今天29號有幾個人知道"},{"start":16020.361,"end":16034.481,"text":"上一次本席詢問的時候要求你們必須務實去做我也歡喜你們在27號有所做調整那我們還是滾動式檢討看了進行的結果怎麼樣保障民眾的權利好不好要宣傳"},{"start":16035.362,"end":16035.382,"text":"蔡議員質詢"},{"start":16069.14,"end":16074.063,"text":"謝謝主席那我們是不是有請金管會我們主委黃主委請主委主委今天我們主題是擴在說如何創造這些企業的ESG那也最近大概六月是不是就要開始要開增所謂的碳費"},{"start":16101.173,"end":16119.493,"text":"這個是環境部他們在研議的所以我現在要扣的議題就是說因為現在環境部也審核過了有六項自然碳匯的一個方法學這中間有包括經營森林或是竹林或是土地利用的管理或者是生物碳、紅樹林、海藻"},{"start":16120.322,"end":16136.714,"text":"那事實上這樣的一些方法學勒也是變得說未來因為要做到了所謂的淨零碳排然後要做到了讓企業去用了這樣的一個碳匯那也可以創造ESG"},{"start":16138.335,"end":16164.853,"text":"對 那我想要請教金管會的就是說未來我們金管會會不會有怎樣的政策輔導企業或者是鼓勵企業去從事剛剛環境部我剛剛講的審核過六項自然碳會的一個方法學就是說這個方法學勒有沒有可能由企業然後領頭然後來開始在地方然後來從事這樣的這樣的一些經營"},{"start":16166.347,"end":16194.308,"text":"剛剛我已經報告就是說我們在最近在推的永續金融裡面我們會去鼓勵我們的金融業針對這些未來對ESG或是對這個減碳有幫助的這些的產業進行一些比較有利的投融資或是一些放款的這樣的一個活動我想主要是透過這樣的方式透過那個金融業的這個資金以及義和的能力來"},{"start":16195.929,"end":16223.16,"text":"來協助這些的轉型金融業當然說他們資金是說去做一些待放對對對於從事這個我們對可是事實上我們也更期待說除了金融業之外還有很多事實上金管會管的有很多上市公司上市櫃公司上市櫃公司他們也是需要他們去創造他們的ESG那這個ESG有沒有辦法進一步的讓企業去跟地方的農業合作"},{"start":16223.76,"end":16224.761,"text":"對,我們多管齊下啦剛剛也有報告我們未來要發展成ESG的評鑑"},{"start":16242.733,"end":16258.153,"text":"這是針對所有上市貴公司那我們這個話其實也可以考慮把這一項納入我們評鑑的指標好 那我們也是期待就是主委可以去好好的去推動因為我覺得像這樣的一些又省碳"},{"start":16258.703,"end":16281.577,"text":"又節能審探而且他還可以創造地方有新的一個經濟的一個平台那甚至很多農民都可以投入然後跟企業有更深層的合作我覺得這個是主委咱金管會也可以扮演這樣的一個角色這是我們來努力第二個我想要跟主委聊一下就是針對現在詐騙的一些狀況事實上好多人都一直在針對這些詐騙集團"},{"start":16284.859,"end":16307.233,"text":"也包括說金融業要怎麼做甚至現在一個詐騙他的項目越來越多他有可能是假投資投資股票就後來發現是假的甚至現在有很多用虛擬貨幣他們用什麼泰達幣說泰達幣是對照美元所以他鼓勵大家去投資泰達幣結果他進入去了結果他去購買泰達幣卻是一個假的"},{"start":16311.335,"end":16339.533,"text":"由詐騙集團自己所創設的一個虛擬貨幣的交易平台那個交易平台完全是假的所以你錢進去你就匯不出來了所以好多人跟我陳情遇到這樣的狀況可是他這一個一旦他去警察局報案了哇這一個網站被揪出來然後這個網站他是架構在第三國所以後來沒辦法再清查然後裡面的錢又被頂光光了對這個被害者來說他投訴無門"},{"start":16340.954,"end":16363.891,"text":"他也沒有不知道怎麼去救濟的因為人也抓不到比較多抓到的那些車手抓到那些提供賬戶者提供賬戶者如果他又沒有財產的話他也沒辦法去追償回來所以問題好多啦所以打詐這件事情我想是很多部門都要投入那我現在只想跟金管會說一個點就好就是說對於虛擬貨幣的管理"},{"start":16368.52,"end":16372.8,"text":"這一個虛擬貨幣的管理到底會不會在金管會你們到底要不要把他納管"},{"start":16373.832,"end":16398.059,"text":"現在有關虛擬貨幣我們現階段已經在洗錢防治法裡面針對比如說那個眾所矚目的個人幣商我們要進行修法動作我想要送到這個立法院來那第二個的話你們只把它放在洗錢防治啊讓大家更期待的就是說就虛擬貨幣你還是要把它類似有點像是投資股票這樣的一個行為虛擬貨幣還是要有一個高度的一個監控啊"},{"start":16398.539,"end":16426.77,"text":"是不是我們正在逐步納管就是那前面有很多委員關切啦我們現在有未來有擬定專法的計畫好我覺得這個也是麻煩金管會啦因為我接到好多陳情然後我們都聽了都好無奈我們真的希望說好好的去做好我們打詐這一塊不要再有這麼多的被害者那受害者甚至很多是老年家他一輩子的積蓄就被詐騙掉了我還聽都很恐怖的好不好"},{"start":16427.571,"end":16430.552,"text":"請相關部會於一周內以書面答覆委員另有要求期限者,從其所定。"},{"start":16450.859,"end":16455.949,"text":"本次會議議程已進行完畢．堂有不在場委員補題書面質詢．一併列入紀錄、刊登公報．並請議事人員協助處理。上會"},{"start":16487.168,"end":16487.729,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}