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民進黨在下鄉到處說凍結案對政務影響多大可是我完全沒看到我們現在政府對於解凍案的提出有任何任何感覺上我要加快腳步的部分我們立法院都三催四請了就是說你如果真的覺得預算凍結對你們的政務影響很大你趕快把解凍案提出來我再次問一下我們的秘書長請問考試院的解凍案什麼時候會送出來"},{"start":171.769,"end":197.924,"text":"我們如果就委員會交求我們提供的報告等等這個部分我們回去盤點的話儘快來處理不要講儘快因為我知道同仁都有儘快的在年底可不可以來得及年底前也可以吧那不會等到這麼晚還是明年底要不十年後不會吧對不對下個禮拜不行下下禮拜可不可以我就回去盤點要再負責任跟委員說我跟秘書長說我會跟你講"},{"start":199.113,"end":228.711,"text":"你們這樣的態度我感覺上對你們的解凍案你們自己都不著急的時候憑什麼到處去講說今天凍結案對政務有影響即便說凍結一層兩層三層不管是凍結多少你今天解凍案出來你現在能夠運用的百分之七十以凍結三層來講你早點弄出來對不對四月解凍案通過實質上你就可以用了不是嗎請問這個月不行四月行不行四月初可不可以我來努力"},{"start":229.523,"end":245.934,"text":"來努力喔 到現在為止喔我告訴你 你到現在為止連個期間你都不肯回答我也跟大家講啦 不是不是 秘書長你啦我知道你也有接到指示啦解凍案慢慢來啦這是我聽到民進黨的一個內部的指令解凍案全部慢慢來"},{"start":247.915,"end":264.782,"text":"反駁我趕快反擊我就我今天考試院我今天抗議羅志強說民進黨說解凍案慢慢來我告訴你我今天現在一個小時後把解凍案拿出來再不行下個禮拜我就把解凍案拿出來再不行下下禮拜我拿出來你給我一個時間"},{"start":266.977,"end":290.624,"text":"不然我跟你講 我得到訊息就是民進黨說解凍要慢慢來啦不急著送啦 叫各部會不用急啦因為只要不急 就拿沒有解凍來做抹黑在野黨所謂的凍結政務的一個藉口你不急 結果呢 不是說你啦行政院不急 然後到處拿這個當柴火去攻擊在野黨"},{"start":291.775,"end":317.276,"text":"今天我們的考訓做一個最好的示範啊連解凍案的時間他都拿不出來啊你的幕僚剛剛都點頭你們已經有在準備了請問預算通過是什麼時候通過的預算起碼通過兩個月有了吧對不對在立法院審查的時間你不要跟我講這兩個月你們完全沒有做任何因應準備有在準備謝謝嘛有在準備"},{"start":318.922,"end":344.467,"text":"拿出來 這而且 民主黨你也知道立法院的凍結案是從有立法院開始就有立法院的凍結案 沒錯吧就有立法院解凍案沒錯吧就有今天考試院怎麼去因應解凍的SOP沒錯吧那我跟各位講 請問到底民進黨在幹什麼所以第一件事我在這邊具體的拜託 肯託"},{"start":347.145,"end":367.464,"text":"希望我們考試院為我們行政機關之先你就把解凍案拿出來否則我要跟民進黨政府不要在那邊一天到晚拿史上預算最高在那邊哭窮 賣慘說這事做不了 那事做不了接下來我要請教您請問你剛剛已經講了不會提出釋憲案對不對就預算部分不會嘛"},{"start":372.455,"end":397.361,"text":"那為什麼你剛才講為什麼今天考試院的預算的煽動沒有監察院那麼嚴重為什麼我跟你講啊因為考試院的官員我還是肯定我相信秘書長你自己有看到我在審查預算我對考試院的預算我個人的提案是相當客氣的沒錯吧對不對你們的考試院的單位來跟我溝通我都說該給我絕對不會刪我不會攔"},{"start":401.069,"end":424.005,"text":"因為考試院目前在我的看法當中是有功能的就這麼簡單而且有在發揮功能當然有很多地方要改進像剛剛我看審判委員那個他的提議我就非常認同啊這個不要跟考生搶錢啦公務員報考的數字都越來越難看結果腦筋還動到要去提高報名會人家日本都不用收"},{"start":425.655,"end":452.44,"text":"這個我覺得意見可以帶進去這就是希望考試院可以改進的地方這我們相互勉勵嘛沒錯嘛對不對做不做得到再說當然要尊重你們考試院的一個職權可是我們立法委員為民喉舌這是考試院跟我們立法院的互動但是我要跟秘書長說為什麼你跟我講你不會提事先啊監察院要提監察院當然要提啊遮掩他的無能跟廢啊"},{"start":453.786,"end":476.944,"text":"我想請問 考試院有沒有編一個出國預算去考察到這個中雄的保育區去考察黑熊有沒有 這個預算 有沒有編我們如果是以這個目的的話 這種主題我們當然當然啦 對你不要講說你沒有編這個預算你們也沒有荒謬到中雄保育地去考察黑熊啦"},{"start":478.066,"end":505.914,"text":"你們考試院沒有幹出這種事情啊來我再這樣請教你請問您吼您的業務吼是增加還是減少?我的業務費是減少我是說您的業務啦我的業務啊對啊考試院業務啊您說在院裡面的業務啊院裡的業務啊考生的業務啊然後我們公務員保障的業務啊增加還減少?應該是在增加那非常好嘛你知道啊監察院陳取上任之後調查跟糾正案下滑百分之三十"},{"start":507.632,"end":535.632,"text":"減少欸 好閒啊那我想請教你齁今天考試院你的預算 對不對這幾年有暴增四成嗎有沒有增加百分之四十有沒有沒有沒有嘛他的業務量自我限縮 閹割 減少百分之三十就監察院你知道預算程序上任後增加多少嗎 你知道嗎嗯 不了解增加百分之四十啊"},{"start":537.421,"end":560.376,"text":"增加百分之四十結果業務減少百分之三十這麼廢的單位跟我講總預算被刪在枯窮連衛生紙都買不到我告訴你學寫考試院啦你有考試院一半的功能今天監察院不會到今天的地步啦我再想請教一下齁請問考試院有把廢死列為你們2023年到2026年終成策略計畫目標嗎 有沒有"},{"start":565.128,"end":590.069,"text":"廢除死刑沒有這不是我們的業務非常好啊當然不是你們的業務啊也不該這麼做啊台灣人民八成反對廢除死刑可是我們監察院把廢除死刑列為2023年到2026年的忠誠策略計畫目標跟著八成民意對幹我再想請教你啊請問考試院有沒有一個委員叫做高永誠有沒有"},{"start":591.206,"end":618.731,"text":"有沒有 沒有沒有嘛 恭喜你啊東廠沒有進駐考試院這位高永成清算檢察官只因為為了關說段宜康的曲棍球案人家不從就清算他考試院有這種事情嗎 有沒有這個跟我們的業務都不相干當然不相干 也不會有這種事啊就業務相干 請問你們有願意當東廠嗎不會吧 不可能吧不可能 不可能嘛"},{"start":619.992,"end":639.821,"text":"所以我今天要在這邊講這個東廠跟我們講說衛生紙發不出來看看考試院啦為什麼考試院今天在三節預算上我們立法院對考試院相對是能夠讓他能夠用的預算盡量去用因為你們監察院丟臉到極致"},{"start":641.65,"end":659.398,"text":"你廢號 沒有功能 私衛素餐 坐領高薪 浪費納稅人的錢就算了 不是私衛素餐 坐領高薪 浪費納稅人的錢 還當東廠考試院 還有臉去視線學學考 呃 說監察院監察院還有臉去視線學學考試院啦 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":806,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（10時33分）主席，有請劉秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩秘書長。"],["劉秘書長建忻：委員早安。"],["羅委員智強：秘書長好。首先想請問您，監察院在本月24號說預算被大幅刪減，要聲請釋憲，我想請問考試院會針對總預算問題提出憲法訴訟嗎？"],["劉秘書長建忻：跟委員報告，我們跟監察院的狀況很不一樣，所以沒有這個規劃。"],["羅委員智強：好，我有看到你在媒體上說，考試院的預算狀況沒有監察院那麼糟，所以不會嘛！我想請問秘書長，為什麼考試院預算刪凍的狀況沒有像監察院刪的這麼多？"],["劉秘書長建忻：考試院的狀況在凍結的部分，因為跟大多數的機關一樣凍結三成，誠實說，凍結三成對未來運作還是會有一些影響，因為……"],["羅委員智強：針對凍結的部分，請問你們的解凍提過來了沒？"],["劉秘書長建忻：因為總預算才剛公布，所以現在這個部分……"],["羅委員智強：那你什麼時候可以提出來？"],["劉秘書長建忻：這個應該會儘快。"],["羅委員智強：不行、不行，秘書長，你們既然這麼在乎，你也知道凍結案，你今天預算報告解凍過來，如果合理的話，我羅智強第一個投下解凍的票，可是你解凍案不送過來，請問我們怎麼解凍？"],["劉秘書長建忻：因為總預算才剛公布幾天……"],["羅委員智強：你告訴我們什麼時候可以送過來？"],["劉秘書長建忻：這個我回去……"],["羅委員智強：總預算剛公布，你們行政院怎麼搞或是民進黨政府怎麼搞，考試院不一定要配合，但是針對準備解凍的事情，你不會跟我講現在才開始準備解凍案吧？應該已經早就提出預算要通過解凍的部分。請問解凍案什麼時候……有在做嗎？"],["劉秘書長建忻：就各種委員在預算審查的時候……"],["羅委員智強：我看你們幕僚有在點頭，有在做？"],["劉秘書長建忻：有啦，都有在做。"],["羅委員智強：你就直接答嘛！對不對？"],["劉秘書長建忻：就是因為大家有各種解凍條件……"],["羅委員智強：請問你，能不能下禮拜就送出來？可不可以？"],["劉秘書長建忻：大概沒有辦法……"],["羅委員智強：沒辦法，你們跟我講說凍結預算，政府就快要倒掉了、來不及，那你給我一個時間嘛！什麼時候可以把解凍案送出來？"],["劉秘書長建忻：我回去再盤點一下，跟委員說明……"],["羅委員智強：秘書長，這樣真的是不太能接受。"],["劉秘書長建忻：因為委員給我們很多附帶……"],["羅委員智強：我先跟你講，秘書長，這不是你的問題，我告訴各位，明天民進黨又要去癱瘓立法院，說實在話，民進黨下鄉到處說凍結案對政務影響多大，可是我完全沒看到現在的政府對於解凍案的提出有任何要加快腳步的感覺，我們立法院都三催四請了，你如果真的覺得預算凍結對你們政務影響很大，你趕快把解凍案提出來。我再次問一下秘書長，請問考試院的解凍案什麼時候會送出來？"],["劉秘書長建忻：就委員會要求我們提供的報告等等，這個部分我們回去盤點，儘快來處理。"],["羅委員智強：不要講儘快，給我一個時間。"],["劉秘書長建忻：因為我知道同仁都有儘快在處理……"],["羅委員智強：年底可不可以來得及？年底以前可以吧？"],["劉秘書長建忻：不會等到那麼晚……"],["羅委員智強：還是明年底？要不要十年後？不會吧，對不對？下個禮拜不行，下下禮拜可不可以？"],["劉秘書長建忻：我回去盤點再負責跟委員說明。"],["羅委員智強：我要跟秘書長講，你們這樣的態度，感覺上對你們的解凍案，你們自己都不著急的時候，憑什麼到處去講說今天凍結案對政務有影響？即便說凍結一成、兩成、三成，不管是凍結多少，你今天解凍案出來，現在能夠運用的有70%，以凍結三成來講，你早點弄出來，4月解凍案通過，實質上你就可以用了，不是嗎？請問這個月不行，4月行不行？4月初可不可以？"],["劉秘書長建忻：我來努力。"],["羅委員智強：你來努力？我告訴你，你到現在為止連個期間都不肯回答，我也跟大家講，不是秘書長你，我知道你也有接到指示，解凍案慢慢來，這是我聽到民進黨的一個內部指令，解凍案全部慢慢來……"],["劉秘書長建忻：我沒有得到這個訊息……"],["羅委員智強：不然反駁我、趕快反擊我。"],["劉秘書長建忻：我沒有得到這個訊息。"],["羅委員智強：除非今天考試院抗議羅智強說民進黨指示解凍案慢慢來！我告訴你，除非你今天、現在、一個小時後把解凍案拿出來；再不行，下個禮拜就把解凍案拿出來；再不行，下下禮拜拿出來；你給我一個時間，不然我跟你講，我得到的訊息就是民進黨說解凍案慢慢來，不急著送，叫各部會不用急啦，因為只要不急，就拿沒有解凍作為抹黑在野黨凍結政務的一個藉口。你不急，結果呢？不是說你啦！行政院不急，到處拿這個當柴火去攻擊在野黨，今天我們考試院做一個最好的示範，連解凍案的時間都拿不出來，你的幕僚剛剛都點頭，你們已經有在準備了，請問預算案是什麼時候通過的？"],["劉秘書長建忻：預算……"],["羅委員智強：起碼通過兩個月有了吧，對不對？"],["劉秘書長建忻：在立法院審查的時間……"],["羅委員智強：是啊！你不要跟我講這兩個月你們完全沒有做任何因應準備。"],["劉秘書長建忻：有在準備。"],["羅委員智強：謝謝嘛！有在準備就拿出來，而且秘書長你也知道，凍結案是從有立法院開始就有立法院的凍結案，沒錯吧？"],["劉秘書長建忻：是。"],["羅委員智強：就有立法院解凍案沒錯吧？"],["劉秘書長建忻：是。"],["羅委員智強：就有今天考試院怎麼去因應解凍的SOP，沒錯吧？我跟各位講，請問到底民進黨在幹什麼？所以第一件事，我在這邊具體的拜託、懇託，希望考試院為我們行政機關之先，你就把解凍案拿出來，否則我要告訴民進黨政府，拿史上最高的預算，不要一天到晚在那邊哭窮、賣慘，說這個事做不了、那個事做不了。","接下來我要請教您，你剛剛已經講不會提出釋憲案，對不對？"],["劉秘書長建忻：就預算部分。"],["羅委員智強：不會嘛！你剛才也講今天考試院預算的刪凍沒有監察院那麼嚴重，為什麼？我跟你講，因為考試院的官員我還是肯定的，我相信秘書長自己有看到，我在審查預算時對考試院的預算，我個人的提案是相當客氣的，沒錯吧，對不對？"],["劉秘書長建忻：是。"],["羅委員智強：你們考試院的單位來跟我溝通，我都說該給的我絕對不會刪、我不會攔，因為考試院目前在我的看法當中是有功能的，就這麼簡單，而且有在發揮功能，當然有很多地方要改進，像剛剛我看到沈發惠委員的提議，我就非常認同，就是不要跟考生搶錢啦！公務員報考的數字越來越難看，結果腦筋還動到要去提高報名費，人家日本都不用收，我覺得這個意見可以納進去，這就是希望考試院可以改進的地方，我們相互勉勵，沒錯嘛，對不對？做不做得到再說，當然要尊重考試院的職權，可是我們立法委員為民喉舌，這是考試院跟立法院的互動。我要跟秘書長說，為什麼你跟我講你不會提釋憲案，但監察院要提？監察院當然要提啊！遮掩它的無能跟廢呀！我想請問考試院，有沒有編一個出國預算到棕熊保育區去考察黑熊，有沒有這個預算？有沒有編？"],["劉秘書長建忻：這個我們……"],["羅委員智強：沒有嘛！"],["劉秘書長建忻：如果是以這個目的、這種主題，我們當然沒有編。"],["羅委員智強：當然啦！對，不要講你沒有編這個預算……"],["劉秘書長建忻：跟我們的業務沒有什麼關係。"],["羅委員智強：你們也沒有荒謬到棕熊保育地去考察黑熊啦！你們考試院沒有幹出這種事情啊！"],["劉秘書長建忻：我們的業務比較特定。"],["羅委員智強：我再想請教你，請問您的業務是增加還是減少？"],["劉秘書長建忻：我的業務費是減少。"],["羅委員智強：我是說您的業務啦！"],["劉秘書長建忻：我的業務喔？"],["羅委員智強：對啊！考試院業務啊！"],["劉秘書長建忻：您說在院裡面的業務？"],["羅委員智強：院裡的業務、考生的業務、公務員保障的業務，是增加還減少？"],["劉秘書長建忻：應該是在增加。"],["羅委員智強：非常好。你知道監察院陳菊上任之後，調查跟糾正案下滑30%，減少欸！好閒哪！我想請教你，今天考試院的預算這幾年有暴增四成嗎？有沒有增加40%？有沒有？"],["劉秘書長建忻：沒有。"],["羅委員智強：沒有嘛！它的業務量自我限縮、閹割，減少30%，就是監察院，你知道陳菊上任後預算增加多少嗎？你知道嗎？"],["劉秘書長建忻：不瞭解，不過他們好像……"],["羅委員智強：增加40%啊！預算增加40%，結果業務減少30%，這麼廢的單位，跟我講總預算被刪、在哭窮，連衛生紙都買不到？我告訴你，學學考試院啦！你有考試院一半的功能，監察院不會到今天的地步啦！","我想再請教一下，請問考試院有把廢死列為你們2023年到2026年中程策略計畫目標嗎？有沒有？"],["劉秘書長建忻：你說廢死？"],["羅委員智強：廢除死刑。"],["劉秘書長建忻：沒有，這不是我們的業務。"],["羅委員智強：非常好，當然不是你們業務啊，也不該這麼做，臺灣人民八成反對廢除死刑，可是監察院把廢除死刑列為2023年到2026年的中程策略計畫目標，跟這八成民意對幹！我再想請教你，請問考試院有沒有一位委員叫作高涌誠？有沒有？"],["劉秘書長建忻：沒有。"],["羅委員智強：沒有嘛，恭喜你啊！東廠沒有進駐考試院，這位高涌誠清算檢察官，只因為為了關說段宜康的曲棍球案，人家不從，就清算他，考試院有這種事情嗎？有沒有？"],["劉秘書長建忻：這個跟我們的業務都不相干。"],["羅委員智強：當然不相干，也不會有這種事啊！就算業務相干，請問你們有人願意當東廠嗎？不會吧？不可能吧？"],["劉秘書長建忻：不可能。"],["羅委員智強：不可能嘛！所以我今天要在這邊講，這個東廠跟我講衛生紙發不出來，看看考試院啦！看看考試院啦！為什麼考試院今天在刪減預算上，立法院對考試院相對是讓它能夠用的預算儘量去用，因為你們監察院丟臉到極致！你廢、沒有功能、尸位素餐、坐領高薪、浪費納稅人的錢就算了，不是！尸位素餐、坐領高薪、浪費納稅人的錢，還當東廠，監察院還有臉去釋憲！學學考試院啦，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，接下來麻煩羅智強委員代理主席。"],["主席（羅委員智強代）：有請吳宗憲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":300,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-5","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","王義川","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","林倩綺","沈發惠","羅智強","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","翁曉玲","陳培瑜","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請考試院秘書長、考選部部長、銓敘部部長及公務人員保障暨培訓委員會主任委員列席報告業\n務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143201_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}