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齁市長你在節目上說在野黨預算造成急診擁塞那請教一下這個公然造謠是誰下的指令啊"},{"start":168.035,"end":182.117,"text":"報告委員我先簡單還原一下因為就是說在上一次大院這邊我想委員也都非常關心相關護理人員我們這裡面護理人員我們現在目前照護師是統三10%凍結30%比例原則算下來的話是大概2200萬業務推動老實說真的其實我問過市長那邊確實會有受到一些相關的影響不過現在不是"},{"start":197.558,"end":205.924,"text":"這是今年年初的事情而已耶對不對你怎麼那麼快就有反應咧你們做事情真的有反應那麼快嗎"},{"start":207.037,"end":233.043,"text":"包委 因為那時候我受訪的時候 那時候其實你用猜的嘛 你用預判的不是啊 包委 那個也非常感謝委員的那個關心那其實我們這個部分大概那個獎勵的部分我想委員也大力來支持那現在3月21號我們公告已經可以動之了3月21號所以嘛 你們前面在公然造謠就根本還沒發生的事你就已經在講了嘛我想問主任檢察官一下"},{"start":233.903,"end":262.749,"text":"如果公然造謠散布假新聞假消息這樣會觸犯什麼樣的法律還是我來講我看你不好意思講行事責任部分可能構成刑法第310條毀謗罪第309條公然侮辱罪第151條恐嚇公眾罪第153條散獲他人犯罪或違背法令罪等行政責任散布謠言足以影響公共"},{"start":263.369,"end":285.163,"text":"之安寧者可依社會秩序維護法第63條第1項第5款規定處3日以下或3日以下的拘留或3萬元以下的罰還這樣對吧對好那你請回主任請回那我再問一下次長你說護理人員夜班今天沒領到是因為什麼預算凍結嗎"},{"start":287.463,"end":303.581,"text":"我剛剛跟委員報告就是說我們有這一個有三的部分另外有三百分之十凍結是百分之三十那按照這個比例原則算下來的話我們就是護理室那邊可是你知道護理人員的夜班今天放在哪個計畫裡面嗎"},{"start":308.675,"end":335.091,"text":"這12項中長期計畫裡面對 沒錯那凍結多少錢剛那部分業務費的部分市長說的是業務費有凍結我們現在講的是這個今天是講補助的部分目前講補助就是在321公告之後我們只有凍結多少錢對 目前沒有凍結對啊 當時好像凍結300萬而已嘛後來就拿掉了對不對對啊 那你怎麼可以說我們去刪減呢"},{"start":336.652,"end":354.69,"text":"還有一個 然後有沒有刪減沒有 獎勵費沒有 獎補助沒有那今年預算將近69億我想請問一下 這69億我們準備要花在哪裡我們目前是三班輪值的夜班費47億然後另外在"},{"start":356.769,"end":378.133,"text":"可是預算書上說是40億嘛 對吧我們總共是68.8億嘛那在直接獎勵部分三班是47億那三班互併比達標16億那另外還有新手臨床教師3.6億還有一個友善職場量2500萬所以總共是66.85億所以那你為什麼預算書是40然後你們又說是47"},{"start":387.424,"end":413.278,"text":"應該是這個部分應該是要用這個最新公告過的這個錢來看這不是新的嗎我要再確認一下這個數字這本來就是新的啊你們的預算書啊不是嗎怎麼會是新的舊的咧你們都搞不清楚我們確實是目前12項政策是總共是66.8"},{"start":415,"end":435.363,"text":"你們吶衛福部啊今年的預算就多了300億按照沒有復一的正常時間賴清德總統早就要公布這個總預算了這樣該給的津貼也不會延遲民進黨這樣子搞拖到上週才公布這樣我發現你們根本不在乎醫護人員領得到錢領不到錢的這個問題嘛那我再問你啊你在節目上還在市長你在節目還講說大陸考察費用"},{"start":445.496,"end":453.503,"text":"有這一筆嘛對不對對沒錯 那個是我們疾管署那現在總統發布17條希特勒的策略以後大陸還去嗎"},{"start":456.654,"end":484.364,"text":"欸 報告委員 那個我首先齁 我現在要澄清齁那個17條絕對不是 跟希特勒應該不相干啦這是第一個問題你偏不管 我問你問題 你回答我就好嘛另外第二個這個 欸 依我的了解你這麼急著笑怎麼幹什麼咧那個應該 可不可以去這個 我恐怕要問一下疾管署因為疾管署不是我的列管署因為按照民進黨的定義 你去就是中共同路人喔不會啦 那個欸 應該17條應該也不是這個 應該也不是這個意思吧"},{"start":485.523,"end":507.532,"text":"好啦 這個我不講了 我再講今天的主題就是說我們去年衛福部說要修訂居家是托育服務提供者的登記及管理辦法的法規嘛是是是那施防率從去年一年十次一年四次要提高到六次對 沒錯這個是我記得是薛律源部長所提的對 沒錯 沒錯 薛前部長所以他講的你們還認嗎 還算不算好 來 這個應該還來 我們請那個代理署長來"},{"start":514.855,"end":533.433,"text":"來跟委員說明一下 謝謝跟委員報告 在114年開始那公托的工作人員的薪資已經從三萬五千多元調到三萬八千我不管這個 一年六次你做得到嗎"},{"start":535.538,"end":550.107,"text":"訪視頻率一年六次在去年凱凱案發生之後那我們就已經把這個對於有這一類特殊狀況的兒童的訪視頻率已經加高了加到六次有確定六次你訪視人員有多少人你現在訪視人員有多少人"},{"start":553.329,"end":572.136,"text":"防事人員的部分現在一共有各縣市加起來一共有500多人總共有500人這樣人力夠嗎人力基本上是夠的基本是夠的我希望你們這個東西做到要做到要分擔他們的負擔其實我們對於各縣市這一類的人力那協助他們的行政人力我們另外還額外去對縣市政府還有一些支持的動作"},{"start":573.576,"end":588.189,"text":"那我再講我們少子化的問題剛剛我聽了一下前面幾個委員的諮詢我發現我們現在找不到誰負責是嗎?現在誰是?就是我們那個就是陳志中政委他來親自督導所以他會來委員會嗎?"},{"start":591.34,"end":603.324,"text":"都不會來我們要怎麼問呢你們到時候我們問你們推來推去到底我們要問什麼我們絕對不會推啦因為這個事實上真的是非常大家關心的好那我問你那107年到113年是計劃的總額是4851億對沒錯那今年又多了1253億對那100到113年4851億的預算用了多少執行率多少執行率的部分"},{"start":619.581,"end":626.916,"text":"所以你不知道嘛那你要怎麼回答我呢你會知道這樣我問你又答不出來那我們要怎麼問"},{"start":628.584,"end":634.986,"text":"我看到112年有做個報告他是算到110年那大概資訊率有95%那我現在講的就是說我們其實到現在這幾年的出生率不增反減"},{"start":650.56,"end":661.455,"text":"提醒你們的是我要提醒你們的是錢我們現在做的政策錢砸得越多我們年輕人越不想生小孩是不是這個方式這個做法是不是有待調整"},{"start":663.356,"end":681.187,"text":"你懂我意思嗎表示說我們錢沒有花在刀口上是是是對不對沒錯所以我們不要說因為我們現在又多變了1200億我相信如果沒有改效果還是不會好是是是好不好那這部分我請你們剛剛你看多久的時間可以寫個這個檢討報告給我們還有改進的多久好多久可以"},{"start":689.364,"end":694.08,"text":"我們在兩個月之內 我們趕快跟委員報告好不好好 謝謝市長再次感謝邱委員 謝謝好 謝謝李志還有謝謝邱曾經"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":996,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（11時7分）好，謝謝主席。今天法務部有來，我先請朱主任檢察官。","主任檢察官好。公共政策網路參與平臺發起連署，要求虐童致殘者，加重刑責至無期徒刑；虐童致死者，判處無期徒刑、死刑。任何虐童、性侵案件，皆不得假釋。這個連署現在有14萬人的附議，這件事您知道嗎？"],["朱主任檢察官華君：知道。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你知道喔！在剴剴案第四次開庭的時候，你們黃謀信次長說凌虐幼童去年已經完成修法，加重相關的刑責規定，至於是否再行修法，本部尊重相關的修法建議，當然也會廣納各界意見，妥適研議，現在對於這個訴求，你們要在5月16號回應。當初國民黨提的就是虐童致死，最高處無期徒刑跟死刑，只是當時民進黨委員反對，法務部也不支持，現在你們的態度呢？"],["朱主任檢察官華君：就如同我們次長所說，我們還是會廣徵意見，也會再做整體的審慎研議。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我聽不太清楚，你講清楚，太小聲了。"],["朱主任檢察官華君：好，就如同我們次長所說的，雖然在去年我們已經完成了一次修法，在刑法第二百八十六條有針對未滿七歲之人……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那我簡單問，如果我們再次送，你們會支持嗎？"],["朱主任檢察官華君：我們尊重。"],["邱委員鎮軍：還是要等賴清德總統的意思，你們才決定？"],["朱主任檢察官華君：我想就是尊重委員的任何意見。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們的立場都是一樣的，不要以拖待變。"],["朱主任檢察官華君：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為這種事情，你不要每一次有事情發生了，才把這事情拿出來討論，等拖到後面，然後沒事了、沒人講了，就算了。"],["朱主任檢察官華君：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得這部分應該要快一點。"],["朱主任檢察官華君：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為這種虐童本來就是零容忍。"],["朱主任檢察官華君：了解。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我想我們大家要有同理心，好不好？"],["朱主任檢察官華君：是、是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，主任檢察官你等一下。我們請衛福部次長。","次長，你在節目上說在野黨刪預算造成急診壅塞，請教一下，公然造謠是誰下的指令？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我先簡單還原一下，因為上一次在大院這邊，我想委員也都非常關心相關護理人員，那有關護理人員的部分，目前照護司是統刪10%、凍結30%，依比例原則算下來的話，大概是2,200萬。至於業務推動，老實說，其實我有問過司長那邊，確實會受到相關的影響，不過……"],["邱委員鎮軍：不是啊！這是今年年初的事情而已耶！對不對？"],["呂次長建德：對，不過那時候……"],["邱委員鎮軍：怎麼那麼快就反應了呢？"],["呂次長建德：因為那時候……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們做事情真的有反應那麼快嗎？"],["呂次長建德：因為我受訪的時候，那時候其實……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你用猜的嘛！你用預判是嗎？"],["呂次長建德：不是，報告委員，非常感謝委員的關心，獎勵的部分委員也是大力支持，3月21日我們公告已經可以動支了，3月21日。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以嘛！你們前面在公然造謠，根本還沒發生的事你就已經在講了嘛！"],["呂次長建德：沒有啦！"],["邱委員鎮軍：我想問主任檢察官一下，如果公然造謠，散布假新聞、假消息，這樣會觸犯什麼法律？"],["朱主任檢察官華君：觸犯……"],["邱委員鎮軍：還是我來講，我看你不好意思講。刑事責任部分，可能構成刑法第三百一十條誹謗罪、第三百零九條公然侮辱罪、第一百五十一條恐嚇公眾罪、第一百五十三條煽惑他人犯罪或違背法令罪等；行政責任部分，散佈謠言，足以影響公共之安寧者，可依社會秩序維護法第六十三條第一項第五款規定，處三日以下拘留或三萬元以下罰鍰，這樣對吧？對哦？好，主任檢察官請回。","我再問一下次長，你說護理人員夜班津貼沒領到是因為什麼？預算凍結嘛！"],["呂次長建德：對，我剛剛跟委員報告，就是說我們有刪的部分，另外……"],["邱委員鎮軍：有刪嗎？"],["呂次長建德：有刪10%，凍結是30%，按照比例原則算下來的話，護理師的部分大概有2,200萬。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你知道護理人員的夜班津貼放在哪個計畫裡面嗎？"],["呂次長建德：在12項中長期計畫裡面。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，沒錯。那凍結多少錢？你說凍結多少錢？"],["陳代理副司長青梅：委員好。剛剛那個部分，業務費的部分，次長說的是業務費有凍結跟刪減的，那這個是……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們現在講的是津貼。"],["陳代理副司長青梅：津貼是獎補助的部分。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對。"],["陳代理副司長青梅：目前獎補助在3月21日公告之後……"],["邱委員鎮軍：只有凍結多少錢？"],["陳代理副司長青梅：目前沒有凍結。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊！當時好像凍結300萬而已嘛！"],["陳代理副司長青梅：對，凍結300萬。"],["邱委員鎮軍：後來就拿掉了嘛！對不對？"],["陳代理副司長青梅：這是最近公告以後解凍。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊！那你怎麼可以說我們去刪減呢？還有一個……"],["陳代理副司長青梅：那是整體預算在審查過程……"],["邱委員鎮軍：有沒有刪減？"],["陳代理副司長青梅：沒有，獎勵費沒有。"],["邱委員鎮軍：也沒有嘛！對不對？"],["陳代理副司長青梅：獎補助沒有。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那今年預算將近69億，我想請問一下，這69億準備要花在哪裡？"],["陳代理副司長青梅：我們目前是三班輪值的夜班費47億，另外在……"],["邱委員鎮軍：可是預算書上說是40億，對吧？你們是可以……"],["陳代理副司長青梅：我們總共是68.8億嘛！"],["邱委員鎮軍：對。"],["陳代理副司長青梅：在直接獎勵的部分，三班是47億，三班護病比達標16億，另外還有一個新手臨床教師3.6億，還有一個友善職場2,500萬，所以總共是66.85億。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊！那你為什麼預算書是40億，然後你們又說是47億？"],["陳代理副司長青梅：這個部分應該要用最新公告過的錢來看。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這個不是新的嗎？"],["陳代理副司長青梅：要再確認一下這個數字。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這本來就是新的啊！你們的預算書啊！不是嗎？怎麼會是什麼新的、舊的呢？你們都搞不清楚。"],["陳代理副司長青梅：好，這個部分我再確認一下，我們確實目前12項政策總共是68.8億。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們衛福部今年的預算就多了300億，按照沒有覆議的正常時間，賴清德總統早就要公布總預算了，這樣該給的津貼也不會延遲，民進黨這樣子搞，拖到上週才公布，我發現你們根本不在乎醫護人員領得到錢、領不到錢的問題。","次長，那我再問你，你在節目上還講說大陸考察費用，有這一筆，對不對？"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯，那個是我們疾管署。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，在賴清德總統發布17條希特勒的策略以後，大陸還去嗎？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我首先要澄清，那個17條跟希特勒應該不相干啦！這是第一個重點。"],["邱委員鎮軍：不是，你先不管，我問的問題你回答我就好。"],["呂次長建德：好。第二個，依我的瞭解，疾管署應該……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你這麼急著消毒幹什麼呢？"],["呂次長建德：可不可以去，這個我恐怕要問一下疾管署，因為疾管署不是我列管的業務。"],["邱委員鎮軍：如果按照民進黨的定義，你去就是中共同路人哦！"],["呂次長建德：不會啦！17條應該也不是這個意思吧！"],["邱委員鎮軍：好啦！這個我不講了。我現在講今天的主題，去年衛福部說要修訂居家式托育服務提供者登記及管理辦法的法規嘛？"],["呂次長建德：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：視訪率從一年4次要提高到6次，這個我記得是薛瑞元部長所提的。"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯，薛前部長他的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以他講的你們還認嗎？還算不算？"],["呂次長建德：我們請代理署長來跟委員說明，謝謝。"],["邱委員鎮軍：還算不算？"],["周代理署長道君：跟委員報告，114年開始，公托工作人員的薪資已經從三萬五千多元調到三萬八千出頭，這個我們也調高了。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我不管這個，我現在不是問這個。一年6次你做得到嗎？"],["周代理署長道君：訪視頻率1年6次，在去年剴剴案發生之後，我們對於這一類特殊狀況兒童的訪視頻率已經加高了。"],["邱委員鎮軍：加到多少？"],["周代理署長道君：加到6次。"],["邱委員鎮軍：有確定6次？"],["周代理署長道君：有，確定。"],["邱委員鎮軍：訪視人員有多少人？"],["周代理署長道君：已經拉高了，加到6次。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你現在訪視人員有多少人？"],["周代理署長道君：訪視人員的部分，現在各縣市加起來一共有五百多人。"],["邱委員鎮軍：總共有500人，這樣的人力夠嗎？"],["周代理署長道君：人力基本上是夠的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：基本是夠的。"],["周代理署長道君：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，我希望你們這個東西說到要做到啦！"],["周代理署長道君：要分擔他們的負擔，其實我們對於各縣市這一類人力，協助他們的行政人力，我們還有額外去對縣市政府有一些支持的動作。"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我再講我們少子化的問題，剛剛我聽了前面幾個委員的質詢，我發現我們現在找不到誰負責，是嗎？現在誰是……"],["呂次長建德：有，就是陳時中政委他親自來督導……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以他會來委員會嗎？他不會來，我們要怎麼問？到時候我們問，你們推來推去，到底我們要問誰？"],["呂次長建德：我們絕對不會推啦！因為這個真的是大家非常關心的國安問題。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，那我問你，107年到113年的計畫總額是4,851億，那今年又多了1,253億嘛！"],["呂次長建德：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：到113年，4,851億的預算用了多少？執行率多少？"],["呂次長建德：執行率的部分，因為分散各個部會……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊！所以你不知道嘛！那你要怎麼回答我呢？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，因為……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們又說你會知道，我問你又答不出來，那我們要怎麼問？到底誰可以負責？"],["呂次長建德：我是不是可以會後提供給委員？好不好？因為它現在確實分散……"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，我跟你講啦！到一百……"],["呂次長建德：因為有教育部的部分，也有我們衛福部，也有勞動部。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我看到112年有做個報告，它是算到110年，大概執行率有95%，我現在要講的是說，我們其實到現在，這幾年的出生率不增反減啦！不增反減，我要提醒你們的是，我們現在做的政策，錢砸得越多，年輕人越不想生小孩，是不是這個方式、這個做法有待調整？你懂我意思嗎？"],["呂次長建德：嗯。"],["邱委員鎮軍：表示我們的錢沒有花在刀口上，對不對？"],["呂次長建德：是，沒錯。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為現在又多編了1,200億，我相信如果沒有改，效果還是不會好，好不好？"],["呂次長建德：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這部分你看多久的時間可以寫個檢討報告給我？包括改進的部分，多久？"],["呂次長建德：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：多久可以？"],["呂次長建德：我們在兩個月之內趕快跟委員報告，好不好？"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，兩個月，謝謝次長。"],["呂次長建德：再次感謝邱委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝呂次，謝謝邱鎮軍。","現在休息10分鐘。","休息（11時18分）","繼續開會（11時30分）"],["主席：我們現在繼續開會。","接下來就不休息了，一直到委員質詢完畢後再結束。","請廖偉翔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-4","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","盧縣一","黃秀芳","劉建國","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","張雅琳","楊曜","李坤城","麥玉珍","陳瑩","鄭正鈐","黃捷","林德福","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、國家發展委員會、教育部、法務部針對「少子女化衝擊，如何營造\n友善托育環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143301_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}