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對不對那未來有沒有可能會增加"},{"start":89.427,"end":114.347,"text":"這個儲備的量其實我們一直都超過我們本來安全存量一年是30萬但是像目前的話是75.7萬已經將近8個月就是只有公糧不包括民間的存糧量沒有問題量的儲備我想這個行之有年而且我想農業部是這方面的專業但是你相關的配售點"},{"start":116.116,"end":144.842,"text":"當然是國家機密啊對對不對對這是國安的問題這國家安全的糧食也是國家安全啊是國家安全物資如果有個人發文跟你要發文跟你要你會不會同意如果是國會議員的話我們會用密件因為如果按照那個是可以供應給國會議員的話我們當然也要給但是要用密件處理你要用極機密處理好喔對你這個"},{"start":146.688,"end":170.583,"text":"這個怕他們馬上就習近平那邊有一份所以你們在處理這些的資料的時候要相當謹慎是相當謹慎這個不要說他一個一個公文給你你就一個一個密字件的公文很多對你應該要把它更高層級如果如果他把這資料外洩"},{"start":171.889,"end":196.156,"text":"他有沒有相關的責任?當然有所以我是提醒你如果他後續又給你邀資料你們要小心應對喔是,謝謝您的提醒千萬不能把這個呃配售的點的資料啊我要這個對岸敵對勢力又拿一份這個萬萬我萬萬不行喔我們不能接受齁對好那這個所謂的"},{"start":197.612,"end":223.368,"text":"農村再生計畫預算有沒有受到影響當然受到影響影響多少我們本來在三年前我們當時是給我們一千多個農村是八萬八億對不起兩年前是六億那去年是十一億那到目前到今年我們才撥出去1.7億所以事實上受到相當有沒有受到財化化的影響"},{"start":224.788,"end":247.205,"text":"會受到影響影響目前我們還沒有辦法,但是我們現在只能夠撥一半這檔動山的影響,這筆算減少多少?會減少大概有4到5億左右那你現在只剩下4到5億來做相關的農村再生計畫?是比前幾年大概只剩下一半?對"},{"start":249.175,"end":255.273,"text":"那你要怎麼推動農村再生計畫所以我們就把過去啊已經我們目前已經"},{"start":256.474,"end":279.546,"text":"合訂的這些農村的社區有1084個那當中啊 尤其我們輔導了好幾年的話我們就暫時那一些就就由我們培根計畫通過這些計畫本來已經都準備好了大家有一些這個農村已經在申請了對不對 已合訂了但是因為被凍三年就沒有辦法撥下去他就沒辦法執行嘛 對不對對 我們就要選擇比較當初我當初我審查農業撥預算這筆經費是無意全數通過喔"},{"start":284.789,"end":307.526,"text":"對,一直都是這樣子簡列數是零,山東數是零這非常感謝對,在經濟委員會我們有各黨派的立委在就莫名其妙在草野協商被幾個完全沒有來過經濟委員會的我不曉得是誰,我不方便講講了我就生氣了他完全不曉得農村的需求就大筆一揮,隨便亂砍在菜市場那邊發脾氣"},{"start":311.926,"end":336.023,"text":"沒有經過這個思考就情緒性、報復性這樣子煽動預算我覺得未來啊立法院預算審查制度要改經濟委員會中心主主義一定要確實到位要把委員會通過的這個預算決議啊沒有除非保留到院會處理預算在委員會通過就不能再更改了"},{"start":337.959,"end":350.753,"text":"結果我們通過預算在抄襲上莫名被改為這個面目全非淪為預算淪為政治報復或者政治鬥爭的一個工具受害的是所有的人民對"},{"start":352.799,"end":365.106,"text":"所以我覺得相關的預算層的制度要改你一定要落實這個委員會中心準...蛤?時間夠了?沒有,還有一分鐘好啦,這樣,市長謝謝來那個國安會"},{"start":370.854,"end":393.143,"text":"國安會副主委今天您跟高副主委這個編分兩路是就是說行政院的台美經貿小組來因應川普的相關貿易的這個作為包括關稅是這個貴會是誰代表是主委代表還是您還是高是主委跟高副所以你對這部分比較不了解"},{"start":394.451,"end":407.415,"text":"我當然看到這個相關的報告就是說你們要看這個美國對其他我們主要的這個貿易競爭國的相關的關稅的狀況像說台灣如果用貿易加權平均關稅台灣只有1.7 美國是2.2日本是1.9 南韓是8.4"},{"start":416.118,"end":435.101,"text":"那中國是3如果用簡單平均明目關稅的話台灣是6.5美國是3.3日本是3.7南韓是13.4你們有沒有經過沙盤推演他比較這個美國可能用貿易加權平均關稅還是用簡單平均明目關稅來作為一個這個相關貿易手段"},{"start":435.942,"end":464.602,"text":"是 這個跟委員報告 因為委員都要求我們要很精準的回答是不是容我再整理一些資料 再跟委員報告沒關係啦 我等一下去財政問你們好 謝謝 謝謝委員好 那另外啊 因為我通常都很準時 但是今天我們招委特別容許我再多講兩分鐘啊 是這個 我還沒有講 不過我現在容許了謝謝 謝謝 我很感謝 我下次當招我再還給你"},{"start":466.328,"end":481.517,"text":"那個離島售電差額這個部分離島基金呢離島基金你們未來要怎麼樣去看待離島基金會不會撥補台電你們這個國會有沒有立場這個今天執密離島是離島是對是我們國土對你未來這個會不會由離島基金來售電來補貼"},{"start":494.972,"end":523.184,"text":"目前還是希望就是說用追加預算把一千億又透過如果追加預算又沒過呢如果追加預算又沒過呢目前的狀態是這樣子那我覺得我覺得按照這個目前這個藍白的策略他們不會過不會過你們會不會考慮用離島基金來撥補會嗎對那因為我要跟委員報告就是說因為原來這個要"},{"start":524.935,"end":551.186,"text":"追加這個1000億裡面其實已經包含了好幾項不同的差價尤其是加上離島的它其實也放在那個追加的預算裡你不能否認這是一個方案選項之一嘛對不對這是一個選項之一嘛如果不是選項它不會拿出來討論嘛那你這個順位順位是應該是如果順位還是追加預算來處理的話那如果不成的話這是不是一個選項"},{"start":553.857,"end":570.969,"text":"這個可能還要好幾個國人在演繹目前沒有辦法直接跟委員回答我想很多事情也不能勉強回答你不太清楚的事情大南方新矽谷的推動方案在我們經濟發展會議總統主持經濟發展會議這些各分區的計畫是誰來做管考"},{"start":577.593,"end":592.119,"text":"目前大南方新矽谷我們是請國科會這邊在做主導所以像明天可能就會開一個是國科會國發會是在統合六大就是我們整個的六大的產業"},{"start":593.939,"end":609.054,"text":"所以你真的大南方信息股是我跟那個蔡宇都一起在這個大南方信息股裡面所以主政還是國科會是 主政是國科會那我們是在匆忙協助推動整個的推動方案好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":573,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時8分）沒有休息10分鐘，我戰力更大。"],["主席：絲毫不減。"],["邱委員志偉：但是不管戰力再多強，論證還是要以理，行政、立法互相尊重，但監督的角色還是不能改變，可是監督的過程一定要很理性，不能咆哮、不能噴口水、不能問一些國家機密。","我先請教農業部胡次長。"],["主席：請農業部。"],["胡次長忠一：委員好。"],["主席：也要控制分貝。"],["邱委員志偉：理直要氣和，不能理直氣壯，要理直氣和。"],["主席：好！"],["胡次長忠一：委員好。"],["主席：5分鐘從現在才開始。"],["邱委員志偉：5分鐘現在開始，好。昨天有一個人問說我們的公糧儲備，我們大家都知道公糧儲備會有動態性的檢討。"],["胡次長忠一：是。"],["邱委員志偉：一般大概是8萬到10萬之間，您當過農糧署署長，所以我們的公糧儲備有一定的SOP，大概是7萬到10萬左右，對不對？"],["胡次長忠一：嗯。"],["邱委員志偉：未來有沒有可能會增加？"],["胡次長忠一：儲備的量其實我們一直都超過。"],["邱委員志偉：我們都超過？"],["胡次長忠一：我們本來安全存糧一年是30萬，但是像目前的話是75.7萬，已經將近8個月，就是只有公糧，不包括民間的存糧。"],["邱委員志偉：量沒有問題，量的儲備我想是行之有年，而且農業部是這方面的專業，但是相關的配售點當然是國家機密啊，對不對？"],["胡次長忠一：對。"],["邱委員志偉：這是國安的問題，這是國家安全，糧食也是國家安全啊！是國家安全物資。如果有個人發文跟你要，你會不會同意？"],["胡次長忠一：如果是國會議員的話，我們會用密件，因為如果按照……是可以供應給國會議員的話，我們當然也要給，但是要用密件處理。"],["邱委員志偉：你要用極機密處理好喔！"],["胡次長忠一：對。"],["邱委員志偉：怕他們馬上就……習近平那邊又有一份耶！所以你們在處理這些資料的時候要相當謹慎。"],["胡次長忠一：是。"],["邱委員志偉：不要說一個公文給你，你就一個……密字件的公文很多，你應該要把它提到更高層級，如果他把這個資料外洩，他有沒有相關的責任？"],["胡次長忠一：當然有。"],["邱委員志偉：所以我是提醒你，如果他後續又跟你要資料，你們要小心應對。"],["胡次長忠一：是，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["邱委員志偉：千萬不能把配售點的資料讓對岸敵對勢力又拿一份，這個萬萬不行，我們不能接受。"],["胡次長忠一：對。"],["邱委員志偉：所謂的農村再生計畫，這一次預算有沒有受到影響？"],["胡次長忠一：當然受到影響。"],["邱委員志偉：影響多少？"],["胡次長忠一：本來在三年前，當時是給一千多個農村8億，兩年前是6億，去年是11億，到今年我們才撥出去1.7億，所以事實上受到相當……"],["邱委員志偉：這一次有沒有受到財劃法的影響？"],["胡次長忠一：會受到影響。"],["邱委員志偉：影響金額是多少？"],["胡次長忠一：目前我們還沒有辦法，但是我們現在只能夠撥一半。"],["邱委員志偉：受在野黨凍刪的影響，這筆預算減少多少？"],["胡次長忠一：會減少大概有4到5億左右。"],["邱委員志偉：4到5億？"],["胡次長忠一：嗯。"],["邱委員志偉：你們現在只剩下4到5億來做相關的農村再生計畫？"],["胡次長忠一：是，今年。"],["邱委員志偉：與前幾年比大概只剩下一半？"],["胡次長忠一：對。"],["邱委員志偉：那你們要怎麼推動農村再生計畫？"],["胡次長忠一：所以我們就把過去已經……我們目前已經核定的農村社區有1,084個，當中有一些我們輔導了好幾年的，暫時那一些就由我們剛培根計畫通過……"],["邱委員志偉：這些計畫本來已經都準備好了，有一些農村已經在申請了，對不對？"],["胡次長忠一：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你們也核定了，但是因為被凍刪就沒有辦法撥下去，他們也沒辦法執行，對不對？"],["胡次長忠一：對，我們就要選擇比較……"],["邱委員志偉：當初我當召委審查農業部預算，這筆經費是5億全數通過喔！"],["胡次長忠一：對，一直都是這樣子。"],["邱委員志偉：減列數是0，刪凍數是0。"],["胡次長忠一：對，非常感謝。"],["邱委員志偉：在經濟委員會有各黨派的立委，結果莫名其妙在朝野協商被幾個完全沒有來過經濟委員會的，我不曉得是誰，我不方便講啦！講了我就生氣，他完全不曉得農村的需求，就大筆一揮隨便亂砍，像在菜市場喊價一樣，沒有經過思考，就情緒性、報復性這樣子刪凍預算。我覺得未來立法院預算審查制度要改，委員會中心主義一定要確實到位，要把委員會通過的預算決議……除非保留到院會處理，預算在委員會通過就不能再更改了，結果我們通過的預算在朝野協商莫名其妙被改得面目全非，預算淪為政治報復或者政治鬥爭的一個工具，受害的是所有的人民，所以我覺得相關的預算審查制度要改，一定要落實委員會中心主義。什麼，時間到了？"],["胡次長忠一：沒有，還有1分鐘。"],["邱委員志偉：好，就這樣，次長，謝謝。"],["胡次長忠一：謝謝委員。"],["邱委員志偉：請國發會。"],["主席：國發會請。"],["邱委員志偉：國發會副主委，今天您跟高副主委兵分兩路？"],["彭副主任委員立沛：委員好。是。"],["邱委員志偉：行政院的臺美經貿小組來因應川普的相關貿易作為，包括關稅，貴會是由誰代表？是主委代表還是您還是高副？"],["彭副主任委員立沛：是主委跟高副。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你對這部分比較不了解？我當然看到相關的報告，你們要看美國對其他我們主要貿易競爭國的相關關稅狀況，如果用貿易加權平均關稅，臺灣是1.7%、美國是2.2%，日本是1.9%、南韓是8.4%、中國是3%；如果用簡單平均名目關稅的話，臺灣是6.5%、美國是3.3%、日本是3.7%、南韓是13.4%。你們有沒有經過沙盤推演？美國可能用貿易加權平均關稅還是用簡單平均名目關稅來作為相關貿易的手段？"],["彭副主任委員立沛：跟委員報告，因為委員都要求我們要很精準的回答，是不是容我會後整理一些資料後再跟委員報告？"],["邱委員志偉：沒關係啦！我等一下去財政委員會問你們的人就好了。"],["彭副主任委員立沛：謝謝委員。"],["邱委員志偉：因為我通常都很準時，但是今天召委特別容許我再多講2分鐘。"],["主席：我還沒有講喔！不過我現在容許了。"],["邱委員志偉：謝謝，萬分感謝，我下次當召委再還給你。離島售電差額的部分，你們未來要怎麼樣去看待離島基金？會不會撥補台電？國發會有沒有立場？今天執秘有來嗎？離島是……"],["彭副主任委員立沛：對，是我們國土處……"],["邱委員志偉：未來會不會有離島建設基金售電補貼？"],["彭副主任委員立沛：目前還是希望用追加預算把1,000億透過立法院這邊審議。"],["邱委員志偉：如果追加預算又沒過呢？"],["彭副主任委員立沛：目前的狀態是這樣子。"],["邱委員志偉：我覺得按照目前藍白的策略，他們不會過，若不會過，你們會不會考慮用離島基金來撥補？會嗎？"],["彭副主任委員立沛：我跟委員報告，因為原來要追加的1,000億裡面其實已經包含了好幾項不同的差價，尤其像離島的其實也放在追加的預算裡面。"],["邱委員志偉：你不能否認這是一個方案選項之一，對不對？這是選項之一嘛！如果不是選項，他不會拿出來討論嘛！這個順位應該是……"],["彭副主任委員立沛：順位還是以追加……"],["邱委員志偉：以追加預算來處理。"],["彭副主任委員立沛：對。"],["邱委員志偉：如果不成的話，這是不是一個選項？"],["彭副主任委員立沛：我們可能還要跟好幾個部會再一起研擬。"],["邱委員志偉：還要再精準？"],["彭副主任委員立沛：對，目前沒有辦法直接跟委員回答。"],["邱委員志偉：好啦！我想也不能勉強你回答你不太清楚的事情。大南方新矽谷的推動方案是在經濟發展會議，由總統主持經濟發展會議，這些各分區的計畫是由誰來做管考？"],["彭副主任委員立沛：目前大南方新矽谷我們是請國科會在做主導，像明天可能就會開一個……"],["邱委員志偉：我知道，這是國科會，那國發會的角色呢？"],["彭副主任委員立沛：國發會是在統合六大，就是我們整個六大產業。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你針對……"],["彭副主任委員立沛：六大區域產業……"],["邱委員志偉：我跟蔡易餘都是一起在這個大南方新矽谷計畫裡面努力，所以主政還是國科會？"],["彭副主任委員立沛：是，主政是國科會，我們是從旁協助推動整個推動方案。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝。"],["彭副主任委員立沛：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝邱志偉委員。","我們下一位請謝衣鳯召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":418,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-5","speakers":["蔡易餘","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","呂玉玲","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","陳超明","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","廖先翔","陳冠廷","林岱樺","邱議瑩","賴惠員"],"page_start":369,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143201_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、農業部部長、內政部首長、財政部首長、行政院主計總處首長就\n「鄉村發展總體檢討及如何提升城鄉發展韌性之規劃方向」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143201_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}