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要在直轄市縣市國土計畫公告實施後的10年內依中央主管機關指定之日期 以並公告國土功能分區圖所以在這邊先請教一下副署長"},{"start":58.29,"end":84.03,"text":"除了南投縣以外21個直轄市縣市政府都已經把國土功能分區圖報請內政部的國土計畫審議委員會來審議那請教一下審了沒有報告我們陸續都在審然後有9個已經那個審議通過了好那請教一下那9個審議完成的修正核定之後可以公告嗎會公告嗎現在我們"},{"start":87.959,"end":104.985,"text":"全部來一起通告政策是這樣子政策全部一起公告法規也是這樣子定的所以是說10年內公告沒有因為就是現在還有陸續在審的還有你剛剛講的南投所以要全部22個是"},{"start":108.743,"end":136.859,"text":"全部審完一併公告那我現在就是要來關心這個問題我請教一下內政部有來核定補助原民地區的鄉村地區這樣的一個經費就是所謂的鄉規從110年度那你們最後一筆113年度的最後一筆呢是仁愛鄉對不對那我請教一下今年會繼續補助嗎"},{"start":140.381,"end":157.592,"text":"會繼續會繼續補助那我再請教一下那沒有審議沒有核定國土功能分區那這些鄉村地區整體規劃能執行嗎因為如果還沒通過就是適用區域計畫法的相關的審議跟開發許可的機制那這個機制因為大家都有鄉規那鄉規"},{"start":159.893,"end":183.454,"text":"一旦經過這個地方鄉村剛才講地方創生等等東西都會整合在一起對空間有一定的看法的規範那這就會是我們不管是地方跟中央都會依這個東西來做相關的審查所以意思就是說從110年度獲得核定補助的其實他也已經完成了也結案了那請教一下副署長他下一步要幹嘛"},{"start":184.841,"end":204.002,"text":"你說接下來要做那個那就要經過公告之後我們會有另外一塊下一個步驟的通盤檢討那請教副署長那公告什麼時候您這樣看就我們立場應該是越快越好因為他說10年內公告嘛是所以全部22個走完就會公告"},{"start":205.403,"end":228.935,"text":"對 如果大家都在這個過程中可以公告我們就公告副組長我要讓您了解一下我上個禮拜我有去萊義高中借一個教室去主持一個會議可能您也很清楚知道我們原住民有很多很多的土地問題而且非常難解那這些人其實引頸氣盼"},{"start":230.748,"end":248.76,"text":"我們國土計畫法如果按照原定5月1號上路就可以解套但是呢他們對於延後6年要繼續等6年非常的無奈因為他們等了很久那幾戶人家很特別因為呢他們那個地方都沒有所有權那更何況水電表"},{"start":253.571,"end":279.042,"text":"講難聽一點都是私階也沒有門牌號很辛苦可是呢我現在特別講一下這個仁愛鄉因為這是我上上個禮拜我也去做會刊因為南投縣仁愛鄉他是最後一個他是在紀錄上他最後一筆拿到鄉規那這是他的公墓在例行的一個公墓那他們的部落的村長所有的人呢 領長都一起來拜託為什麼"},{"start":282.583,"end":294.717,"text":"因為您看一下這個他的土地建物的查詢資料他這個使用的分區他叫森林區他叫森林區那您也很清楚"},{"start":295.936,"end":314.318,"text":"按照我們非都變更邊定的原則這種森林區是萬萬絕對沒有辦法變更為殯葬用地所以他們當初一直在等這個鄉規啊國土公門分區啊就一直等他們過去想要申請我們的殯葬量能計畫"},{"start":315.97,"end":328.316,"text":"一直沒有辦法 就在等這個國土計畫是他們唯一的解套完了 要等六年然後呢 這個殯葬量能提升計畫編到114 也不知道有沒有下一期"},{"start":329.74,"end":346.291,"text":"其實這樣的問題在原鄉地區很多很多原本以為5月1號就要上路的國土計劃法可以讓這些歷史塵蚵一一的被解決掉完了就沒辦法所以呢我請教一下就是副署長像這樣的一個狀況您覺得怎麼辦"},{"start":353.109,"end":361.054,"text":"這個案子的詳細狀況例如他還有什麼敏感什麼東西我比較不清楚這部分個案部分我們可以會後我們去"},{"start":362.322,"end":367.366,"text":"我們請我們組裡面 科裡面去看是怎麼樣可以去幫忙那就是來我辦公室看怎麼協助解決嗎可以嗎可以好 謝謝那副處長我請您看一個圖一樣就是國土計畫法它在第15條它有寫直轄市縣市國土計畫每5年通盤檢討一次這個是沒有修的但是你看這個圖"},{"start":386.821,"end":391.707,"text":"直轄市縣市國土計畫已經公告在110年已經公告那現在問題來了國土公能分區延後就是到120年那剛才我講的相規從110年就開始做了直到現在 您說也會繼續補助"},{"start":403.24,"end":420.211,"text":"好那現在呢按照我剛才念的直轄市縣市國土計畫通盤檢討沒有修所以他是維持每5年檢討一次所以預計他是會落在115年我現在就想問那鄉村地區整體規劃他到底是要等120年的還是等115年應該是全面實施之後"},{"start":428.392,"end":441.545,"text":"所以我就是想要來請教一下副署長您的意見我認為是為了不打劫也不違法我是希望內政部乾脆就以115通檢來做一個標準"},{"start":444.808,"end":472.029,"text":"我希望各縣市國土功能分區先到先審可以先公告核定那第二個部分就是我也希望內政部這邊殯葬量能提升計畫能夠持續的提報編列經費因為很多地方都還很辛苦特別我提到原住民族地區從日本人來從室內葬要在戶外葬戶外葬之後土葬現在又要改成火葬"},{"start":472.929,"end":499.153,"text":"我們其實是一直在適應國家的法令要有一個適應期但是我們也希望我們的政府能夠體恤也能夠給我們繼續的來等候我們所有的人都願意跟上政府的政策計畫副組長這樣可以嗎有關這個先審先核定因為剛剛已經講在法裡面的規定我們也必須要依法決定那可以以115為基準嗎"},{"start":501.642,"end":520.08,"text":"應該現在法院沒辦法去做這件事情但是因為已經有相規指導的跟我們區計在審查的相關的這個配套跟部分那個署長也有指示我們組裡面去看去盤整看是這些指引跟準則跟地方線是第一線的問題這部分我們來做調節應該可以解決"},{"start":523.104,"end":537.019,"text":"一部分的問題好 那我希望這兩個部分我聽起來就是有不錯的一個態度的表示那我們就希望到辦公室來看怎麼樣來解決這些遇到困難的部落好不好是好 謝謝副組長 謝謝主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":752,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（11時34分）謝謝主席，有請國土署徐燕興副署長。"],["主席：請副署長。"],["徐副署長燕興：委員午安。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：午安。國土計畫法在修法之後延後了6年，所以國土計畫法第四十五條也做了修正，就是直轄市、縣（市）主管機關要在直轄市、縣（市）國土計畫公告實施後十年內，依中央主管機關指定之日期，一併公告國土功能分區圖。所以在這邊先請教一下副署長，除了南投縣以外，21個直轄市、縣（市）政府都已經將國土功能分區圖報請內政部的國土計畫審議委員會審議，請教一下，審議了沒有？"],["徐副署長燕興：我們有在陸續審議，有9個已經審議通過了。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好。請教一下，那9個審議完成的，修正核定之後可以公告嗎？會公告嗎？"],["徐副署長燕興：現在我們是全部一起公告，政策是這樣子。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：你們的政策是全部一起公告？"],["徐副署長燕興：法規也是這樣規定的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以是十年內公告？"],["徐副署長燕興：沒有。因為現在還在陸續審議，還有您剛剛說的南投也還沒有送。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以要22個縣市全部審完再一併公告？"],["徐副署長燕興：對，一併公告。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：本席現在就是要來關心這個問題。請教一下，內政部有核定補助原民鄉村地區的經費，就是所謂的鄉規，從110年度開始，113年度的最後一筆是仁愛鄉，對不對？"],["徐副署長燕興：是。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：請教一下，今年會繼續補助嗎？"],["徐副署長燕興：會繼續。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：再請教一下，沒有審議、沒有核定國土功能分區，這些鄉村地區的整體規劃能執行嗎？"],["徐副署長燕興：如果還沒有通過，就是適用區域計畫法的相關審議和開發許可機制。因為大家都有鄉規嘛！而且剛剛說的地方創生等等都會整合在一起，對空間有一定的規範，不管是地方或中央都會依這個規範做相關審查，那個部分就有規範。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：110年度獲得核定補助的，其實他們已經完成了，也結案了，請教副署長，他們下一步要幹嘛？"],["徐副署長燕興：你是說接下來要做哪個部分嗎？那就要等公告，我們會有下一個步驟的通盤檢討。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：請教副署長，依您看什麼時候會公告？"],["徐副署長燕興：就我們的立場應該是越快越好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：因為法規是規定十年內公告嘛！所以22個縣市全部審議完成就會公告？"],["徐副署長燕興：對，如果大家都認為在這個過程中可以公告，我們就會公告。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：副署長，本席要讓您了解一下，上個禮拜本席在來義高中借了一間教室主持一場會議，可能您也很清楚，因為我們原住民有很多、很多土地問題，而且非常難解，這些人引頸期盼，如果國土計畫法能按照原定的5月1日上路，他們的問題就可以解套，所以他們對於延後6年、又要繼續等6年真的非常無奈，因為他們已經等很久了。那幾戶人家很特別，因為他們那個地方都沒有所有權，更何況是水、電表，說難聽一點都是私接的，也沒有門牌號，真的很辛苦。","本席現在要特別說一下仁愛鄉的狀況，因為本席上上禮拜有去會勘過。南投縣仁愛鄉在紀錄上是最後一筆拿到鄉規的，這是當地的力行公墓，部落的村長、鄰長和所有民眾都一起來拜託，為什麼？您看一下這個土地的查詢資料，這裡的使用分區叫森林區。您也很清楚，按照非都變更編定的原則，這種森林區絕對沒有辦法變更為殯葬用地，所以他們當初一直在等這個鄉規、國土功能分區。因為他們過去想要申請殯葬量能計畫，但是一直沒有辦法，所以就在等這個國土計畫，這是他們唯一的解套，結果完了！又要等6年，但是這個殯葬量能提升計畫只編列到114年，也不知道有沒有下一期。其實在原鄉地區有很多類似的問題，原本以為5月1日就要上路的國土計畫法，可以讓這些歷史沉痾一一被解決，結果是沒辦法。所以本席要請教一下副署長，像這樣的狀況，您覺得該怎麼辦？"],["徐副署長燕興：關於這個案子的詳細狀況，例如是否還有什麼敏感的地方，這些我比較不清楚，這個個案會後我們再請同仁去看可以怎麼幫忙。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：就是到本席辦公室討論，看要怎麼協助解決嗎？"],["徐副署長燕興：可以。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝。副署長，本席要請您看一個圖，一樣是國土計畫法，第十五條有規定「直轄市、縣（市）國土計畫每五年通盤檢討一次」，這部分沒有修正。但是你看這個圖，直轄市、縣（市）國土計畫在110年已經公告，現在問題來了，國土功能分區延後到120年，但是剛才本席說的鄉規，從110年就開始做了，一直到現在，您說也會繼續補助。現在就是像本席剛才唸的，直轄市、縣（市）國土計畫通盤檢討沒有修正，所以一樣是維持每五年檢討一次，預計是落在115年。本席現在就想問，鄉村地區整體規劃到底是要等120年的計畫，還是等115年的通盤檢討？"],["徐副署長燕興：應該是全面實施之後做通檢。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：本席想要請教一下副署長的意見，為了不打結、也不違法，本席希望內政部乾脆以115年的通檢做為標準，也希望各縣市的國土功能分區可以先到先審，然後先公告核定。第二個部分，本席也希望內政部的殯葬量能提升計畫能夠持續提報、編列經費，因為很多地方都很辛苦，特別是本席提到的原住民族地區，從日本人來臺之後的室內葬改為戶外葬，又從戶外葬的土葬，現在又要改成火葬。因為我們一直在適應國家的法令，所以需要有一個適應期，我們希望政府能夠體恤繼續給予時間適應，因為我們所有人都願意跟上政府的政策計畫。副署長，可以嗎？"],["徐副署長燕興：有關先審、先核定，剛剛已經說過，因為這是法的規定，我們必須依法處理。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：可以以115年為基準嗎？"],["徐副署長燕興：現在反而沒辦法去做這件事情。但是因為已經有鄉規指導，還有區域計畫審查的相關配套，署長也有指示同仁盤整這些指引和準則，以及地方縣市在第一線碰到的問題，這部分我們會做調節，應該可以解決一部分的問題。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好。關於這兩個部分，聽起來你們是有不錯的態度表示，到時候到本席辦公室，再看要怎麼解決這些部落遇到的困難，好不好？"],["徐副署長燕興：是。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝副署長，謝謝主席。"],["徐副署長燕興：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員。請國土署針對這個案件看能不能用鄉規的方式解套，好不好？","下一位請廖先翔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":418,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-5","speakers":["蔡易餘","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","呂玉玲","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","陳超明","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","廖先翔","陳冠廷","林岱樺","邱議瑩","賴惠員"],"page_start":369,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143201_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、農業部部長、內政部首長、財政部首長、行政院主計總處首長就\n「鄉村發展總體檢討及如何提升城鄉發展韌性之規劃方向」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143201_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}