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調整會不會有產業外移的問題我聽到很多的企業企業主說不會動的"},{"start":226.28,"end":249.074,"text":"所以就轉進泰國啊跑到越南嗎那接著請經濟部好了經濟部那剛剛他們都講了嘛江次長你覺得影響的層面有多大這些人最好的建議是去哪裡去泰國好呢還是去越南好"},{"start":250.271,"end":278.44,"text":"報告委員因為這個4月2號的報告還沒有出來所以確切會對哪些特定的產業哪些特定的國家科徵什麼樣的關稅現在還不清楚但是我們之前4月2號是什麼明年是不是不是4月2號他會公佈但是我們已經就各種情況4月2號是指今天的哪一天今年4月2號今天幾號今天是3月27號所以還有幾天下禮拜馬上就到了啊"},{"start":281.633,"end":301.52,"text":"這個時間你應該要做砂盤推演嘛最嚴重他要課多少對各行業你們有沒有統計過比如說汽車周邊的零組件你們的預測你們砂盤推演最高他要課多少關稅提高多少"},{"start":303.842,"end":327.54,"text":"汽車化因為很多都是電子產品其實它是如果是歸類於電子產品資訊業的話它是沒有關稅但是我們一般的汽車的話大概是百分之八汽車零組件是百分之八到百分之十五的關稅這是台灣的相較於美國來得高對 你有沒有算過到十五的話這些廠商的承受能力在哪裡"},{"start":328.817,"end":353.374,"text":"個別的廠商現在都有做我們也交換過意見有些廠商呢其實已經有到國外去佈局那甚至有這個Tesla的供應鏈廠商已經在美國設廠也有一些廠商呢先前也有到墨西哥去設廠好那你剛剛說到國外佈局大概是首選是哪幾國看個別廠商都不一定那有去因為先前有這個"},{"start":355.509,"end":382.231,"text":"USMCA的優惠所以我們有很多的廠商電子業相關廠商是在墨西哥在墨西哥佈局的那昨天川普政府有公布232對於相關的這個汽車等等的產品要課徵25%的關稅但是墨西哥跟加拿大是豁免的那請問一下次長這個相關影響的產業別會有多少大概多少家公司"},{"start":384.212,"end":402.809,"text":"因為昨天公布是只針對汽車業但是呢4月2號的報告出來之後我們還必須要去了解川普政府他會選哪些特定的產業或者是哪些特定的國家你們今天有盤點過嘛假設他強度弄到最強情況是怎麼樣"},{"start":404.713,"end":426.028,"text":"強度最強的話那應該就是全世界最相關的國家都會被科證所以我們都也是會比照啊是不是而且我們也會去看其他對手國我們的競爭相關產品競爭那你要跟他講啊你這邊跟我們科其他國家一樣的關稅你跟他可不可以宣布台積電就不要去啦"},{"start":428.678,"end":447.742,"text":"你做生意你要懂得談判嘛你台積電拿所謂一千億美元公佈兩千億美元那就六兆多啊你不能說這個也要那個也要通通他都要買東西拿去那我們這樣怎麼談判呢來 談判的代表是誰那談判的代表看起來都是漂漂亮亮的"},{"start":458.84,"end":485.941,"text":"稱讚你的話大概就是美若天仙大概就是柔若是花你們談判你起碼找個像老柯一樣來談吧對不對談一談談不好說不定還可以把他的秘密武器拿出來敲一敲其實是蠻震驚的啊你們要有這樣的一個魄力啊好 談判代表是嚴富總你準備好了嗎"},{"start":489.938,"end":507.871,"text":"我們包括經貿辦在內的所有的行政團隊都準備好了真的因為我們一直密集的召開會議都有做各種的你沒有談到一條啊你跟他講說台積電都過去了我們能給的都給的啊還有我跟你講一個來央行"},{"start":511.124,"end":537.636,"text":"央行 剛剛有人提到說去 楊總裁去是好奇啊事實上 你知道長期以來啊美國每次在困難的時候賣不出去的東西房地美 房地美 叫誰來買 央行有沒有買你回答 點頭是什麼意思但是 我們持有的比例現在是降低的有沒有買 央行有沒有買現在有吧"},{"start":538.632,"end":564.566,"text":"每次美國有難的時候台灣就站出來第一個都力挺啊我們進一步的資料就是央行主要買的是美國政府的債券買了多少目前比例好像是92%左右總金額是多少美金多少"},{"start":566.133,"end":594.694,"text":"我們現在的外匯存底是我出鍋講一下但比較正確的我回去查一下因為那水準在變化外匯存底如果目前來講大概是五千七百多億我們跟他買了五千多億的那個是外匯存底乘上比例如果是百分之九十大概大概是四千多億好所有那個談判代表"},{"start":595.865,"end":614.825,"text":"我們仔細資料到時候再提供給你麻煩那個嚴副總所以你談判的時候你要有底氣啊你要有籌碼啊美國除了要拿台積電他還要拿什麼"},{"start":616.679,"end":643.647,"text":"我想美國的政策很明白他就是要強化他的經濟安全國家安全所以台積電只是他確保供應鏈安全的一環哪一家公司是他的安全的一環除了台積電還有哪一家應該是說他覺得的關鍵產業都是他的經濟安全的一環所以晶片是一種那其他的礦場稀土也都是他所關鍵的所以你們在談判的時候要整理一下"},{"start":645.27,"end":659.874,"text":"比如說你要請教一下央行總裁啊你如果給我課關稅你要向加拿大總理的那個氣魄談判不要輸嘛你見面看到川普你就輸一半那怎麼談下去咧強硬一點好不好"},{"start":664.383,"end":687.676,"text":"你請教央行如果他要用高關稅我們已經對他們很好了要買武器就買武器要叫什麼就做什麼我們全力配合你還要一致性的跟其他國家來對我們課高關稅這是不公平的你就帶一句那那個外匯存體買美國國債買多少你再講一次央行央行多少"},{"start":692.401,"end":717.637,"text":"買了多少億的美國公債 來你說我們剛才講目前持有的美國公債部會是外匯存底的九成九成是多少那有四千多億的美元啊對 四千多億好 就是這句話 那個台灣代表你說你可以弄高關稅我四千多億的美國的公債我全部贖回"},{"start":723.135,"end":734.33,"text":"本席的用心理解請你們多多站在所有產業的未來的發展的辛苦方面多多考量另外那個什麼 健康食品的部分現在人口老化"},{"start":739.324,"end":745.429,"text":"吃的健康食品都是老人啊結果負擔的成本是那麼高你們趕緊檢討一下吧"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1010,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（12時21分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。請財政部莊部長。"],["主席：請財政部莊部長。"],["羅委員明才：請中央銀行朱副總裁。"],["主席：請中央銀行朱副總裁。"],["羅委員明才：請金管會……"],["主席：請金管會陳副主委。"],["羅委員明才：請證期局黃副局長、櫃買中心陳麗卿總經理。"],["主席：請陳總經理。"],["羅委員明才：請國發會高副主任委員。"],["主席：請國發會高副主任委員。"],["羅委員明才：以及經濟部江次長。"],["主席：請經濟部江次長。"],["羅委員明才：請農業部杜次長。"],["主席：請農業部杜次長。"],["羅委員明才：最重要的是談判辦公室啊！請顏慧欣副總代表嗎？"],["主席：請顏副總代表。"],["羅委員明才：這個議題很嚴肅喔！即將面對的是一個很大的挑戰，對臺灣的未來可能會影響五年、十年，所以我想請教一下。莊部長，自從美國開啟關稅大戰以後，可以說「稅稅不安」，大家都很緊張啊！那麼部長，你準備好了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，是的，我們每一個部會都盯緊了相關訊息，而且會在行政院召開相關的工作小組會議。"],["羅委員明才：既然你已經準備好了，那我請問你，川普到底在想什麼？"],["莊部長翠雲：川普要讓美國再次地偉大。"],["羅委員明才：所以他要美國再次偉大。","我們臺灣每一年賺美國多少錢？"],["莊部長翠雲：從美國這邊的話，我們的順差是七百多億美金。"],["羅委員明才：這個金額大不大？"],["莊部長翠雲：在美國的貿易夥伴國裡面，我們大概是排第六名。"],["羅委員明才：第六喔？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["羅委員明才：事實上，照你講的這個金額，影響周邊就很大，比如說央行周邊的匯率問題啊！還有證期局相關領域。我要請教一下……是黃副局長嘛！好，那我請問一下最直接的問題，請問負責上櫃的是誰？陳總經理，剛剛提到，如果關稅都調高的話，汽車、汽車零組件範疇中，大概有什麼行業會受到直接的影響？"],["陳總經理麗卿：我們櫃買中心之前詢問了一些上櫃公司，大概是對電子零組件業的部分公司會有稍許影響，但是都還在可控範圍之內。"],["羅委員明才：電子？還有呢？"],["陳總經理麗卿：電子零組件。"],["羅委員明才：汽車周邊不會嗎？"],["陳總經理麗卿：我們在這部分的公司很少，然後是對他們的影響也不大。"],["羅委員明才：好。","那我請教一下黃副局長……"],["黃副局長厚銘：是，委員好。"],["羅委員明才：你有沒有統計過，所有1,850家上市上櫃公司中，會因為關稅調整受影響的有多少、影響的範圍是多大？"],["黃副局長厚銘：跟委員報告，我們之前透過證交所跟櫃買中心對整個市場一千八百多家企業做問卷調查，根據目前回來的問卷，自己評估認為影響會比較重大的大概有22家左右。"],["羅委員明才：哪22家？"],["黃副局長厚銘：對於具體名單，我想我們不便提供，但是現在知道這些就是剛剛提到的電子產業或汽車零組件業。"],["羅委員明才：難怪我們看到臺股現在都萎靡不振啊！因為大家都看到未來前途坎坷啊！大家害怕啊！那麼會不會因為這樣的關稅調整而有產業外移的問題？我聽到很多企業主都說撐不住，所以就轉進泰國啊、跑到越南啊！","接著請經濟部好了。"],["江次長文若：是，委員。"],["羅委員明才：剛剛他們都講了嘛！江次長，你覺得影響的層面有多大？對於這些人最好的建議是去哪裡？去泰國好呢？還是去越南好？"],["江次長文若：報告委員，因為4月2號的報告還沒有出來，所以確切會對哪些特定產業、哪些特定國家課徵什麼樣的關稅現在還不清楚。但是我們之前已經有……"],["羅委員明才：4月2號是什麼？明年是不是？"],["江次長文若：不是，4月2號會公布。但是我們已經就各種情境……"],["羅委員明才：4月2號是指相對於今天的哪一天？"],["江次長文若：今年4月2號。"],["羅委員明才：今天幾號？"],["江次長文若：今天是3月27號。"],["羅委員明才：所以還有幾天？"],["江次長文若：下禮拜。"],["羅委員明才：馬上就到了啊！欸！這個時間你應該做沙盤推演嘛！"],["江次長文若：有。"],["羅委員明才：最嚴重會課多少？針對各行業，你們有沒有統計過？"],["江次長文若：因為是採對等……"],["羅委員明才：譬如說，對於汽車周邊零組件，你們的預測……你們有沙盤推演嘛！他最高要課多少關稅？提高多少？"],["江次長文若：汽車的話，因為有很多是電子產品，如果歸類於電子產品、資訊業的話是沒有關稅。但一般汽車的話，大概是8%，汽車零組件是8%到15%的關稅，臺灣是相較於美國來得高。"],["羅委員明才：對，那你有沒有算過，到15%的話，這些廠商的承受能力在哪裡？"],["江次長文若：個別廠商現在都有做估計，我們也交換過意見。有些廠商其實已經到國外布局，甚至有Tesla供應鏈廠商已經在美國設廠，也有一些廠商先前到墨西哥設廠。"],["羅委員明才：好，那你剛剛說到國外布局，首選大概是哪幾國？"],["江次長文若：看個別廠商，都不一定。先前因為有USMCA的優惠，所以我們有很多電子業相關廠商是在墨西哥布局的。而且昨天川普政府公布依照232條款對汽車等相關產品課徵25%關稅，但是墨西哥跟加拿大是豁免的。"],["羅委員明才：那請問一下次長，受到相關影響的產業別會有多少？大概多少家公司？"],["江次長文若：昨天的公布是只針對汽車業，4月2號的報告出來之後，我們還必須了解川普政府選哪些特定產業或者是哪些特定國家。"],["羅委員明才：你們已經盤點過了嘛！假設強度弄到最強，情況是怎麼樣？"],["江次長文若：強度最強的話，那應該就是全世界相關國家都會被課徵。"],["羅委員明才：所以我們也都會比照，是不是？"],["江次長文若：我們也會去看其他對手國，也就是相關產品的競爭對手國。"],["羅委員明才：那你要跟美國講啊！要是他在這邊對我們課與其他國家一樣的關稅，你可不可以宣布台積電就不要去了啊？"],["江次長文若：這個要更……"],["羅委員明才：做生意要懂得談判嘛！台積電拿1,000億美元或如公布的2,000億美元，那就是臺幣六兆多啊！他不能這個也要、那個也要，要是統統拿去、包贏，這樣我們怎麼談判呢？","談判代表是誰？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：委員好，我是經貿辦。"],["羅委員明才：談判代表看起來都漂漂亮亮的，要稱讚你的話，大概就是美若天仙、柔弱似花。但你們要談判，起碼要找個像老柯一樣的來談吧！對不對？談一談以後，要是談不好，說不定還可以把秘密武器拿出來敲一敲，欸！其實是滿令人震驚的啊！你們要有這樣的魄力啊！談判代表是……"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：顏慧欣。"],["羅委員明才：顏副總，你準備好了嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：包括經貿辦在內，我們所有行政團隊都準備好了。"],["羅委員明才：真的？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：因為我們一直密集召開會議，都有做各種沙盤推演。"],["羅委員明才：你們要談到一條啊！你要跟他們講，台積電都過去了、我們能給的都給啦！","還有，我跟你講一個，請央行。"],["朱副總裁美麗：是，委員好。"],["羅委員明才：剛剛有人提到楊總裁去是好棋啊！事實上，你可知道長期以來，美國每次在困難的時候，賣不出去的東西，例如房地美、房利美，叫誰來買？央行有沒有買？你回答啊！點頭是什麼意思？"],["朱副總裁美麗：是有，但是我們持有的比例現在是降低的。"],["羅委員明才：有沒有買？央行有沒有買？"],["朱副總裁美麗：現在有。"],["羅委員明才：每次美國有難的時候，臺灣都第一個站出來力挺啊！"],["朱副總裁美麗：有進一步的資料，就是央行買的主要是美國政府的債券。"],["羅委員明才：買了多少？"],["朱副總裁美麗：目前的比例好像是92%左右。"],["羅委員明才：不，總金額是多少？以美金計。"],["朱副總裁美麗：我們現在的外匯存底是……這樣好了，我粗估講一下，但比較正確的要回去查一下，因為那屬於……"],["羅委員明才：沒關係啦！你第一次來，我也就隨便啦！大概就好了。"],["朱副總裁美麗：外匯存底如果就目前來講，大概是五千七百多億美元，如果……"],["羅委員明才：我們跟他們買了五千多億美金……"],["朱副總裁美麗：不是，那是外匯存底，如果乘上比例90%，大概是四千多億美元。"],["羅委員明才：好。談判代表，麻煩……"],["朱副總裁美麗：仔細的資料我們到時候再提供給您。"],["羅委員明才：麻煩顏副總，所以你談判的時候要有底氣啊！你要有籌碼啊！美國除了要拿台積電，還要拿什麼？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我想，美國的政策很明白，就是要強化它的經濟安全、國家安全，所以台積電只是它確保供應鏈安全的一環，但是……"],["羅委員明才：還有哪一家公司是它安全的一環？除了台積電，還有哪一家？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：應該說它覺得關鍵產業都是其經濟安全的一環，晶片是一種，其他礦藏、稀土也都是它所關切的。"],["羅委員明才：所以你們在談判的時候要整體研究一下。比如說你要請教一下央行總裁啊！如果美國向我們課關稅，那你要有像加拿大總理那個氣魄，談判不要輸嘛！若你見面、一看到川普就輸一半，那怎麼談下去呢？強硬一點好不好？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：好。"],["羅委員明才：請教央行，如果美國要用高關稅，我們已經對他們很好了喔！要我們買武器就買武器，叫我們做什麼就做什麼、全力配合，他們卻還要一致性地比照其他國家，對我們課高關稅，這是不公平的！你就帶一句。","那麼，在外匯存底中，美國國債買了多少？你再講一次。央行，多少？買了多少億美國公債？來，你說。"],["朱副總裁美麗：我們剛才講，目前持有的美國公債部位是外匯存底的九成，但因為……"],["羅委員明才：九成是多少？也有四千多億美元啊！"],["朱副總裁美麗：對，四千多億。"],["羅委員明才：好，就是這句話。談判代表，你就說要是美國向我們弄高關稅，那我們持有的四千多億美國公債就全部贖回！這樣理解吧？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我們各種談判策略都會納入考量。"],["羅委員明才：本席的用心理解？請你們站在所有產業未來發展的辛苦方面多多考量。","另外，健康食品的部分，現在人口老化，吃健康食品的都是老人啊！結果負擔的成本卻是那麼高。你們趕緊檢討一下吧！"],["江次長文若：是，我們會進行檢討。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅委員的質詢。","下一位請葉元之委員質詢。報告委員會，葉元之委員質詢完畢後，我們休息5分鐘，因為已經快兩個小時沒有休息。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":74,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-5","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","鍾佳濱","李彥秀","林思銘","賴惠員","李坤城","陳玉珍","黃珊珊","王世堅","許宇甄","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","羅明才","葉元之","邱志偉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","鄭正鈐"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、國家發展\n委員會劉主任委員鏡清、經濟部郭部長智輝、農業部陳部長駿季就「因應美國川普政府對等關稅\n策略與我國被列入骯髒十五國名單，我國政府財經相關單位因應策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143201_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}