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我們的分工是這樣你要不要也直接講一下就是好 各位委員包括我們現在目前有關公托的部分我們現在目前主要就是有一些一些托育方面的一些設施那這裡面包括就是說我們現在目前各位委員包括我們現在目前有總共497"},{"start":193.979,"end":206.748,"text":"497的這個托林中心嘛那我們現在目前接下來我們會來趕快來做這個積極的佈建那今年應該會再多增加46處嘛還會增加大概94處那預計可以再多增加3000名的這個小朋友"},{"start":220.298,"end":222.721,"text":"那也就是說現在497我們就算500啦那你們在多久之內會再增加這個"},{"start":233.331,"end":260.701,"text":"大概時程大概多久一般我們大概到一個據點的推估大概都在兩年左右那但是其實大概到即使到今年都一直陸陸續續各縣市政府還有在額外再申請的所以這個數字還在持續的增加當中對因為托嬰中心除了其他的配備以外便利性也是一個很重要的就是怎麼讓怎麼廣布據點"},{"start":263.631,"end":284.968,"text":"當然啦 要廣佈據點拖延人力的還是有問題啦所以整個政策其實我們不能只看一個點啦只看一個點都會覺得好像很容易啦不過不管怎麼樣就是"},{"start":287.149,"end":312.018,"text":"很感謝次長大概也就之前的經歷所以剛好有外國的朋友可以跟我做溝通今天也就很快速的回答了這兩個你剛才說是三個可是我聽是一個托育一個是托育另外一個是住宅就兩個嘛"},{"start":315.69,"end":333.449,"text":"因為還有一個就補貼啦他們也一樣跟台灣也有這一個因為補貼好像也都比我們高這個數字我必須要再來這邊認一下我們現在目前大概就是一五六七我這邊有資料啦不過就是"},{"start":335.05,"end":362.496,"text":"時間的關係所以我可能不那個就是確實他們的補貼也比我們高不過各類補貼也是要看政府的整體財政那我也希望因為我們常常講說少子女化其實是一個國安的危機沒錯這個我們確實就是盡可能的我們把別人"},{"start":363.516,"end":384.64,"text":"別人在推的好的政策好像剛剛次長講的涉災的部分我們可能也會跟內政部來做一個討論那托育的部分不管0到2歲或者是以上的是屬於教育部我也都希望能夠趕快去廣布據點培養人力讓年輕的父母其實確實是"},{"start":394.022,"end":411.47,"text":"職業家庭兩頭燒有它一定的困難點太困難它就越不想生嘛所以我們還是盡可能用政府的力量來協助他們好謝謝次長次長請回感謝委員謝謝主席我請一下勞動部理事長"},{"start":419.7,"end":445.804,"text":"養委員好市長好市長我因為時間的關係所以我就簡單問一個問題你們現在在研議要修正就業保險法就是讓雙清假如領滿6個月的育嬰留職停薪的可以再增加一個月這是你們的方向是不是可是每年我們大概有9萬個人來"},{"start":449.29,"end":476.87,"text":"來申請一因留職去年是九萬三千對不對那假如按照你們現在的規定就是雙親都要滿六個月才各加一個月是不是這樣子對方向是這樣那這樣子可以受惠的是只有兩萬一千人左右我們的資料是大概這樣子我提一個建議是"},{"start":478.547,"end":487.446,"text":"你們要不要 因為我們現在是一流值可以申請勞保投保薪資的八成的津貼嘛"},{"start":488.001,"end":514.793,"text":"六成然後補貼兩成六成補貼兩成那能不能就是不要用六個月來算因為六個月來算就是只有大概兩成多一點的人有申請育嬰留職的人數裡面只有大概兩成多一點點的人可以享受到政府的這一項鼓勵"},{"start":516.153,"end":534.707,"text":"能不能從勤領的部分譬如說政府勤領六成嘛政府補貼兩成嘛能不能直接就是政府補貼兩成五或者是三成市長懂我的意思嗎"},{"start":535.68,"end":549.932,"text":"用公務預算是不是不是你們現在這兩層是用公務預算多這個月你們也是有兩層是公務預算六層是基金那就是公務預算的部分"},{"start":558.043,"end":578.596,"text":"你們應該要去思考看看,能不能不要用各滿六個月,各加一個月。就是有請領的,就直接是基金負擔六成,然後公務預算負擔兩成五到三成。"},{"start":579.281,"end":601.929,"text":"了解我的意思這樣子可以受惠的人數比較多其實我時間的關係因為雙親都必須要滿12個月對很多家庭其實是有譬如說父母親離異的啦比較會有一些"},{"start":606.246,"end":630.481,"text":"困難出來所以就直接假如說我們有打算要多鼓勵就直接是在經營的層數上做增加是了解委員的意思我沒有要你在這邊直接回答不過你們這個真的可以回去做個思考謝謝主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1646,"blocks":[["楊委員曜：（13時11分）謝謝主席，主席請一下衛福部呂次長。"],["呂次長建德：楊委員好。"],["楊委員曜：次長好。次長，少子化是一個全球性的問題。"],["呂次長建德：是，沒錯。"],["楊委員曜：我國的生育率是一路下滑，南韓比較特殊，南韓的總和生育率曾經幾乎是全球最低的，好像0.7對不對？"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯。"],["楊委員曜：但他們在去（2024）年生育率有微幅的回升，請教一下次長，你們有沒有研究到底是什麼原因？"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝委員的關心。據我所知，它的數字在全世界排名確實本來是敬陪末座，即TFR是0.7，去年大概回到0.76，這個其實對韓國人就是很大的一個改變。據我瞭解，因為我之前在學界也認識很多韓國的朋友，其實昨天就有韓國學者來拜訪我，我也就這個問題請教他，他是說他們最近確實有一些政策，除了津貼之外，另外其實是公托，他們公托的比例確實比我們高，這是第二個重點。第三個最重要的就是他們各地方政府的社會住宅，他們的住宅那邊有分胎次別：一胎、二胎、三胎，這方面補助的額度確實比臺灣來得更高，我覺得這個確實是臺灣應該要來借鏡的地方。其實韓國他們在最近這幾年的房價也漲得非常非常驚人，年輕人也付不起，跟臺灣有同樣問題，可是他們用社會住宅的這一個方式，我覺得我們確實應該可以來考慮。"],["楊委員曜：當然社宅好像不是衛福部管，不過社宅……"],["呂次長建德：對，那個部分比較是內政部。"],["楊委員曜：用社宅來當作誘因，我個人也覺得好像是一個很好的方法。也就是說他們的公托做得比我們好？"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["楊委員曜：然後他們社宅的誘因比較高……"],["呂次長建德：社宅誘因，沒錯。"],["楊委員曜：還有嗎？我這裡還有一個問題，因為只有一年，所以也不見得……因為他們大概就是去年才開始……所以可能……"],["呂次長建德：可能還需要長期觀察。"],["楊委員曜：對、對，那公托的部分0到2歲是你……"],["呂次長建德：對，我們的分工是這樣。"],["楊委員曜：你要不要也直接講一下？"],["呂次長建德：跟委員報告，有關公托的部分，我們目前主要就是有一些托育方面的設施，跟委員報告，我們目前有總共497所托嬰中心，接下來我們會趕快來做積極的布建，今年應該會再多增加大概94處，預計可以再增加3,000名的小朋友。"],["楊委員曜：現在497處，我們就算500，那你們在多久之內會再增加？時程大概多久？"],["周代理署長道君：一般我們一個據點的推估大概都在兩年左右，但是其實到今年各縣市政府都一直陸陸續續還有再額外申請，所以這個數字還在持續的增加當中。"],["楊委員曜：因為托嬰中心除了其他的配備以外，便利性也是很重要的，再來就是怎麼廣布據點。當然，要廣布據點的話，托嬰人力、能量也是有問題。"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["楊委員曜：所以整個政策其實我們不能就只看一個點，只看一個點都會覺得好像很容易。不過不管怎麼樣，就是很感謝次長，也就你之前的經歷、剛好也有外國的朋友可以做溝通，那今天也就很快的回答了這兩個問題。你剛才說是三個，可是我聽到的是一個托育、另一個是……"],["呂次長建德：對，一個是托育，另外一個是住宅，沒錯。"],["楊委員曜：就兩個嘛？"],["呂次長建德：因為還有一個是補貼，他們跟臺灣一樣也有……"],["楊委員曜：補貼好像也都比我們高？"],["呂次長建德：這個數字我必須要再來確認一下。"],["楊委員曜：我這邊有資料，不過就是時間的關係，確實他們的補貼也比我們高，不過各類補貼也是要看政府的整體財政。"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯。"],["楊委員曜：因為我們常常講少子女化其實是一個國安的危機，我們就是盡可能的把別人在推的，如同剛剛次長講的社宅部分，我們可能也會跟內政部來做一個討論。"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯。"],["楊委員曜：托育的部分，不管0到2歲或以上的是屬於教育部，我也都希望能夠趕快去廣布據點、培養人力，其實年輕的父母確實是職業、家庭兩頭燒，有他們一定的困難點，太困難他就越不想生，所以我們還是盡可能用政府的力量來協助他們。"],["呂次長建德：是。"],["楊委員曜：好，謝謝次長，次長請回。"],["呂次長建德：感謝委員。"],["楊委員曜：主席，我請一下勞動部李次長。"],["李次長健鴻：楊委員好。"],["楊委員曜：次長好。次長，因為時間的關係，我就簡單問一個問題，你們現在在研議要修正就業保險法？"],["李次長健鴻：是。"],["楊委員曜：讓雙親假如領滿六個月的育嬰留職停薪的人可以再增加一個月，這是你們的方向是不是？"],["李次長健鴻：是。"],["楊委員曜：可是每年大概有9萬個人來申請育嬰留職停薪。"],["李次長健鴻：去年是9萬3,000人，"],["楊委員曜：假如按照你們現在的規定，就是雙親都要滿六個月才各加一個月，是不是這樣子？你們的方向是這樣？"],["李次長健鴻：對，方向是這樣子。"],["楊委員曜：這樣子可以受惠的是只有2萬1,000人左右，我們的資料大概是這樣子。我提一個建議，因為現在育嬰留職停薪是可以申請勞保投保薪資的八成津貼？"],["李次長健鴻：六成，然後補貼兩成。"],["楊委員曜：那能不能就是不要用六個月來算？因為用六個月來算，有申請育嬰留職的人數裡面，只有大概兩成多一點點的人可以享受到政府的這一項鼓勵，能不能從請領的部分處理？譬如說原本是請領六成外、政府補貼二成，能不能直接由政府補貼二成五或者是三成？次長懂我的意思嗎？"],["李次長健鴻：用公務預算是不是？"],["楊委員曜：不是。你們現在這二成是用公務預算，是不是？"],["李次長健鴻：是。"],["楊委員曜：多給這個月，你們也是有二成用公務預算？"],["李次長健鴻：是。"],["楊委員曜：六成是基金，對不對？"],["李次長健鴻：對。"],["楊委員曜：那就是針對公務預算的部分，你們應該去想想、思考看看，能不能不要各滿6個月才各加1個月，而是凡有請領的就直接以基金負擔六成，然後用公務預算負擔二成五到三成？"],["李次長健鴻：我了解委員的意思。"],["楊委員曜：次長懂我的意思嗎？"],["李次長健鴻：了解、了解。"],["楊委員曜：這樣子，可以受惠的人數比較多。"],["李次長健鴻：是。"],["楊委員曜：也比較不會……基於時間的關係，我就是說雙親都必須滿12個月對很多家庭來說，譬如說父母親離異的啦！比較會有一些困難出來。"],["李次長健鴻：是。"],["楊委員曜：所以應該直接，假如你們打算多鼓勵，那就直接在請領的成數上做增加。"],["李次長健鴻：是、了解委員的意思。"],["楊委員曜：好不好？"],["李次長健鴻：了解委員的意思。"],["楊委員曜：次長，我沒有要求你在這邊直接回答，不過這個方式你們真的可以帶回去做個思考，好不好？"],["李次長健鴻：了解、了解。"],["楊委員曜：謝謝次長。"],["主席：謝謝楊委員、謝謝次長。","接續請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-4","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","盧縣一","黃秀芳","劉建國","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","張雅琳","楊曜","李坤城","麥玉珍","陳瑩","鄭正鈐","黃捷","林德福","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、國家發展委員會、教育部、法務部針對「少子女化衝擊，如何營造\n友善托育環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143301_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}