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抗旱的能力 是不是尤其面對極端氣候如果沒有我們第一時間從過去的八八一路來到前瞻很難因為我們來自地方 我們都知道光一個水利工程那不是簡單一千萬 兩千萬做得起來"},{"start":115.543,"end":123.63,"text":"大家要做一招抽水槍 那就要咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕咕嚕"},{"start":142.938,"end":171.186,"text":"所以你必須我們要有萬全的準備去幫忙人民如何去防洪如何去抗旱因為政府要作為人民最好的支撐者才能夠讓他們面對這個極端的氣候尤其極端的氣候所造成的都是人民財產安全的損失"},{"start":173.087,"end":189.918,"text":"這是不容有任何折扣的所以我要先問我們看到去年的楷米還有整個颱風不斷的肆虐造成台南農牧漁業損失慘重"},{"start":192.495,"end":220.857,"text":"甚至很多的低窪地區都是淹水超過好多個禮拜都沒有退當下我們去會刊了我們也過了很多的相關計畫可是我們要問的從去年到今年汛期又要到了都處理好了嗎都準備好了嗎 市長"},{"start":223.645,"end":244.484,"text":"謝謝委員的指導治水的工作除了委員之外所有經濟委員會的各位委員都非常的重視非常感謝委員會過去代包括今年度的預算都非常的支持剛剛委員所提出的前瞻計畫也是透過聯席會跟財政委員會聯席會現在已經通過了我們希望加速了"},{"start":245.605,"end":273.247,"text":"來通過這個預算讓所有的工作能趕快開展但是針對於治水的工作特別是黃汛跟各位報告我們沒有最好但是只有更好到目前為止我們除了工程方法導入之外我們積極的跟縣市來合作比如說我也很關心的巴掌溪及水溪的疏浚包括曾文溪的排水的治理因為我們現在已經把下流段慢慢治理好了我們希望說"},{"start":274.268,"end":300.799,"text":"比照三爺溪的經驗把上游的部分因為這個土地也一直在飆漲市長你剛剛講到三爺溪我也要跟你一起把它變成一個很重要的一個指標跟關鍵我想市長當時候三爺溪在淹水的時候當時候蔡英文總統下台南我當時候就跟蔡總統說總統"},{"start":303.679,"end":328.38,"text":"當我們縣的整治關鍵在土地要一次核定署長你當時候聽很清楚嗎你當時是署長所以蔡英文總統很清楚這個關鍵所以回來一次核定對不對署長一次核定之後我們很簡單的土地一起來做處理願意"},{"start":331.031,"end":355.951,"text":"來做架構的我們馬上處理所以有用看用啦所以我們今天的報告第一頁就把當時的精神放在這裡我們希望說一次核定分年實施的部分對於全國及澳大利亞的自理核酸都比照我們過去三年一夕的經驗來落實這樣對整個防災的能力會更好是對啊沒錯市長"},{"start":357.712,"end":385.944,"text":"山岩溪已經有這麼好的經驗了可是我看你後面好像並不是用這樣方向因為我當時候就跟署長拜託說署長我跟總統直接建言總統也答應了也確實我們就用一次核定所以當時候在卡關在鬼打牆的時候那些過程都沒了所以我們山岩溪可以很快的"},{"start":387.011,"end":405.451,"text":"而且是超乎我們原本的預估因為過去每一次都是土地一段一段土地徵收完了再來做治水的工程然後這一段完了我們再換下一段永遠就卡來卡去可是你一次核定不一樣"},{"start":406.61,"end":422.583,"text":"所以水利工程是要跟時間在跑的、在攪拌的跟時間在賽跑的啊所以我一直講像我們曾文熙排水現在終於終於終於終於做到最後段了終於喔!市長我已經讓你輪過了曾文熙排水過去的治理長達十幾年了17年"},{"start":434.673,"end":463.826,"text":"我當民意代表立委17年就爭取了17年最後終於做到最後段了這當中你看浪費了多少時間所以我一直在說的這事情不能算啦而且當你今天沒有做好前面淹水我們做的工程等於都無效 人民無感"},{"start":465.362,"end":485.479,"text":"所以我們一定在水利工程一定要做一致合定這才是最關鍵 如果在潦白水也是一扎一扎慢慢地走然後搞到所有的里長說 你做什麼 你在做什麼 我也在喝水 人民無感"},{"start":488.092,"end":501.365,"text":"所以在整個我們所看到的現在水利工程包括我們所期待的總預算這一次我們水利署的預算也被刪減了9.63億農業部的預算被刪減了2.73億"},{"start":509.504,"end":535.8,"text":"這些其實都是人民急迫需要的 但被刪掉好 那前瞻呢前瞻第五期 也是在空中在背餒我們現在執行是一至四期嘛 對不對而且一至四期都在執行當中了 已經要做結尾了好 那結尾完呢就是第五期"},{"start":537.099,"end":565.845,"text":"像第五期 關我爭取的麻豆安南中西新營新市永康還有所有民眾設置防水閘門板的預算一億一千兩百七十四萬還有仁德區將軍區外僱傭馬沙溝崔坤新的囚罪證幫忙安平 膽固認定 應控善化"},{"start":566.837,"end":572.411,"text":"這都是在我們第五期第五期的市長怎麼辦第一個我們希望"},{"start":577.285,"end":602.098,"text":"相關包括委員會所支持的預算趕快可以順利的通過第五期經濟部大概編了101億元左右那現在在朝野協商中那如果是這個預算趕快通過的話因為第五期的預算我們已經優先的先把它盤點出來有一些都已經先行核列只不過因為配合預算法的關係所以這個部分你們去年都核列了嗎"},{"start":603.238,"end":625.628,"text":"就是我們看到 凱米等等 好幾個颱風進來我們早就和諒了啊都已經跟人家講說 我們要走啊 要走 屋上吊在空中在飛我們當時看了多少 我再次強調安南區 新化區 嘉里 麻豆柳營嘉里 新化 還有六甲甚至是夏營 鹽水北門 七谷"},{"start":636.139,"end":651.966,"text":"關田我們所看到的全部都是我們目前非常重要急迫需要的還有北區 東區 安南區仁德 雪甲白河 南溪這些都等著你們怎麼辦這些都等著你們市長"},{"start":663.888,"end":669.415,"text":"有什麼想法 現在倒在盡頭到尾了中午三個紅台 前瞻第五期也動不了"},{"start":676.841,"end":697.264,"text":"現在要怎麼做?訊息又要到了訊息快到了我們中心期盼立法院院會能趕快通過我們前瞻的第五期預算因為特別預算有它的嚴謹度那公務預算的部分還有逐年不超過原核定的預算額度裡面還有一些方法可以去想"},{"start":697.785,"end":725.194,"text":"那特別預算的部分 這些確實比較麻煩一點但是我們也可能拜託地方政府他可以多先行電款來做發包或許有可能找到解方 但是因為我們中央都知道要做編啦所以地方政府已經都有一點失能了啦你跟他講說他先編 他也不會編啦以前都是我們等候他然後他電付案配合款"},{"start":726.412,"end":754.034,"text":"現在你叫他先編 他就說 那你錢什麼時候要給我所以 市長今天台南37區每個地方都有我們核定的計畫我們都有去現場看過37區都有但是現在面臨的事 到不了所以市長 這個要解決啊前瞻的第五期 還有我們的總預算"},{"start":755.752,"end":784.762,"text":"這沒有辦法折扣而且有些被凍結的我們希望你們趕快拿出來解凍我相信我們所有的委員都不會阻擋這都是人民的小命機要救命的啦拜託大家也拜託我們的經濟部我們真的要努力而且預算這已經現實狀況了被凍在那裡我們下一步怎麼解決"},{"start":787.54,"end":787.941,"text":"謝謝我也知道"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":245,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時43分）謝謝，我們請次長。"],["主席：賴次長。"],["賴次長建信：委員好。"],["陳委員亭妃：次長，上一次質詢的時候是署長，一下子，才這兩、三個禮拜之間就變成次長了，第一個問題又是您最在行的，因為從抗旱也好或是水利工程也好，對你來講這是你最專業的，也是一路從基層一直上來，可是專業歸專業，沒錢也沒辦法辦事情，對不對？"],["賴次長建信：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：次長，這是很敏感的，我們在這段時間看到全國各地慢慢有防洪、抗旱的能力，是因為我們除了本體預算、公務預算提升，第二個部分，我們也有前瞻計畫把整個資源完全投入我們的防洪跟抗旱，才有辦法讓大家感覺到整個國家慢慢的有防洪、抗旱的能力，是不是？"],["賴次長建信：是，感謝委員……"],["陳委員亭妃：尤其面對極端氣候，如果沒有我們從過去的八八，一路來到前瞻，很難，因為我們來自地方，我們都知道，光一個水利工程，那不是簡單1,000萬、2,000萬做得起來的，光是要做一座抽水站就要好幾億，還有滯洪池，我相信這就是對我們防洪很重要的關鍵，再加上要抗旱，因為極端氣候，有時候就下雨下很多，讓你受不了，有時候連一滴雨都沒有，所以我們必須要有萬全的準備，幫忙人民如何去防洪，如何去抗旱，因為政府要作為人民最好的支撐者，才能夠讓他們面對這個極端的氣候，尤其極端氣候所造成的都是人民財產安全的損失，這是不容有任何折扣的。","所以我要先問，我們看到去年的凱米，還有很多颱風不斷的肆虐，造成臺南農牧、漁業損失慘重，甚至很多的低窪地區淹水超過好多個禮拜都沒有退，當下我們也去會勘了，我們也過了很多相關計畫，可是我們要問的是，從去年到今年，汛期又要到了，次長，都處理好了嗎？都準備好了嗎？"],["賴次長建信：謝謝委員的指導，治水的工作，除了委員之外，所有經濟委員會的各位委員都非常的重視，我也非常感謝委員會過去，包括今年度的預算都非常的支持。剛剛委員所提出的前瞻計畫，也是透過跟財政委員會聯席會，現在已經通過了，我們希望加速通過這個預算，讓所有的工作能趕快開展。但是針對治水的工作，特別是防汛，跟各位報告，我們沒有最好，只有更好，到目前為止，我們除了工程方法導入之外，我們還積極的跟縣市來合作，比如說委員很關心的八掌溪、急水溪的疏濬，包括曾文溪排水的治理，因為我們現在已經把下游段慢慢治理好了，我們希望能比照三爺溪的經驗，把上游的部分，因為這個土地也一直在飆漲，包括……"],["陳委員亭妃：次長，你剛剛有講到三爺溪，我也要跟你一起把它變成一個很重要的指標跟關鍵。次長，三爺溪在淹水的時候，蔡英文總統有下臺南，我當時候就跟蔡總統說：總統，我們縣的整治關鍵在土地，要一次核定。署長，你當時候聽得很清楚嘛，你當時候是署長。蔡英文總統很清楚這個關鍵，所以回來一次核定，對不對？署長。"],["賴次長建信：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：一次核定之後，很簡單的，我們土地一起來做處理，願意來做價購的，我們馬上處理，所以會有樣學樣。"],["賴次長建信：所以我們今天的報告第1頁就把當時的精神放在這裡，我們希望一次核定分年實施的部分，讓全國急要段的治理河川都能比照過去三爺溪的經驗來落實，這樣對整個防災的能力會更好。"],["陳委員亭妃：對啊，沒錯啊！次長，三爺溪已經有這麼好的經驗了，可是我看你後面好像並不是用這樣的方向，因為我當時候就跟署長拜託說：署長，我跟總統直接建言，總統也答應了，也確實我們就用一次核定，所以當時候在卡關、在鬼打牆的時候，那些過程都沒了，所以我們三爺溪可以很快的完成，而且是超乎我們原本的預估，因為過去每一次都是土地一段一段，土地徵收完了再來做治水的工程，然後這一段完了再換下一段，永遠就卡來卡去，可是你一次核定就不一樣。水利工程是在跟時間賽跑，所以我一直講，像曾文溪排水現在終於做到最後段了，終於哦！次長，我跟你提多久了？"],["賴次長建信：曾文溪排水過去的治理長達十幾年。"],["陳委員亭妃：17年，我當民意代表、立委17年，就爭取了17年，最後終於做到最後段了，你看，這當中浪費了多少時間。所以我一直在說，這筆錢不能省啦！而且當你今天沒有做好，前面淹水，我們做的工程等於都無效，人民無感。所以水利工程一定要做一次核定，這才是最關鍵，六塊寮排水也一樣是一段一段慢慢做，然後搞到所有的里長都說：你做這個要做什麼？你再做，我也還在淹水。人民無感！所以我們所看到的是，現在的水利工程，包括我們所期待的總預算，這一次水利署的預算也被刪減了9.63億，農業部的預算被刪減了2.73億，這些其實都是人民急迫需要的，但被刪掉了。","那前瞻呢？前瞻第五期也是在空中飛，我們現在執行是一至四期嘛，而且一至四期都在執行當中，已經要做結尾了。結尾完呢？就是第五期。像第五期，光我爭取的麻豆、安南、中西、新營、新市、永康，還有所有民眾設置防水閘門（板）的預算1億1,274萬，還有仁德區、我的故鄉將軍區的馬沙溝、青鯤鯓抽水站、北門、安平、東區、仁德、永康、善化，這都是在第五期的哦！次長，怎麼辦？"],["賴次長建信：第一個，我們希望相關包括委員會所支持的預算可以趕快順利的通過，第五期經濟部大概編了101億元左右，現在在朝野協商中，如果這個預算趕快通過的話，因為我們已經優先把第五期的預算盤點出來，有一些都已經先行核列，只不過因為配合預算法的關係，所以有一些必須要……"],["陳委員亭妃：這個部分你們去年都核列了，就是我們看到凱米等等好幾個颱風進來後，你們早就核列了啊！都已經跟人家說我們要做了，結果預算都在空中飛。我們當時候看了多少？我再一次強調，安南區、新化區、佳里、麻豆、柳營、佳里、新化還有六甲，甚至是下營、鹽水、北門、七股、安定、官田，我們所看到的全部都是我們目前非常重要、緊迫需要的，還有北區、東區、安南區、仁德、學甲、白河、楠西，這些都等著你們耶！怎麼辦？這些都等著你們耶！次長有什麼想法？現在到底進度到哪裡了？膠著、協商，之後我們總預算會被刪，前瞻第五期也動不了，現在我們要怎麼做？加上汛期又要到了。"],["賴次長建信：汛期快到了，我們衷心期盼立法院院會能夠趕快通過我們前瞻第五期預算，因為特別預算有它的嚴謹度。公務預算的部分還有逐年不超過原核定的預算額度裡面，還有一些方法可以去想，但特別預算的部分，這一些確實比較麻煩一點，我們也可能會拜託地方政府先行墊款來做發包，或許有可能找到解方，但是因為……"],["陳委員亭妃：我們中央都做得太好了，所以地方政府都已經有點失能了，你跟他說他先編，他也不會編啊！以前都是我們丟給他，然後他墊付案、配合款；現在你叫他先編，他就說：那你錢什麼時候要給我？所以次長，今天臺南37區每個地方都有我們核定的計畫，我們都有去現場看過，37區都有，但是現在面臨的是動不了。所以次長，這個要解決啊！前瞻第五期還有我們的總預算，這沒有辦法折扣的，而且有些被凍結的，我們希望你們趕快拿出來解凍，我相信所有的委員都不會阻擋，這都是人民的生命錢、要救命的啦！拜託大家，也拜託經濟部，我們真的要努力，而且預算被凍在那裡，這已經是現實狀況了，我們下一步怎麼解決？謝謝。"],["賴次長建信：好，謝謝委員指導。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","現在請呂玉玲委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-6","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","林岱樺","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","鄭正鈐","陳超明","鍾佳濱","蔡易餘","葉元之","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":169,"meetingDate":["2025-03-31"],"gazette_id":"1143301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、內政部首長及國家科學及技術委員會首長就「2025年防洪抗旱計\n畫」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143301_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}