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你準備好了沒啊"},{"start":117.195,"end":138.936,"text":"是準備在修正,我們外匯局有個team因為我看到主委他很積極,畢竟剛剛上任以彭主委他是點子王,以及他看起來比較年輕比較有很高的理想,想要做點事"},{"start":140.151,"end":158.112,"text":"可是,現在即便匯20萬回來,你央行也查三次、四次啊,台幣喔那你每次都是,當然啦,你們都說是要查一些這個什麼洗錢啊等等的齁,那請問央行"},{"start":159.269,"end":185.081,"text":"已經洗了這個三年多了說要找這個洗錢的國際的什麼洗錢請問央行啊你們這幾年有發現哪一筆是洗錢的比較大筆的有沒有我想這個應該不是央行業務對不對有沒有啦我問一下因為這個是外匯局外匯局你們管的沒關係你是副總裁可能剛來還不大清楚來外匯局"},{"start":187.708,"end":209.161,"text":"因為你要成為亞洲的資產管理中心勢必需要一個很自由進出的金融中心當然你的管控是在你的核心那應該是要利益良善"},{"start":210.117,"end":230.819,"text":"就是鼓勵為普遍那有問題你再特例抓出來好我們再回歸到這個問題央行這去年啊去年一整年你們查獲的洗錢有幾例金額是多少我想洗錢不是我們央行這邊去去查或怎麼樣那他銀行之間會去通報那個洗錢的主管機關"},{"start":231.92,"end":259.468,"text":"所以我們央行的立場來講最主要還是為了假設不是扣除洗錢方面的我們的那五十萬、一百萬相關的一些目前的規範大概都是最主要還是為了編制我們的國際收支所需來做這樣的一個銀行端會報給我們大概都是為了方便我們做比較準確的國際收支的一個編制所以去年一整年所謂的洗錢防治真正查到國際洗錢的有幾筆"},{"start":261.048,"end":279.39,"text":"總金額有多少這跟委員報告我們回去check一下就是我們目前應該是我了解是應該沒有這樣的一個每次回答都check一下你不是要說亞洲資產管理中心嗎所以當主委在往前衝的時候你們都在後面扯後腿"},{"start":280.785,"end":296.193,"text":"所以你造成現在的情況是普遍的台商在講你五十萬八十萬明明人家學他的兒子小孩就在英國念書匯錢過去匯是匯到學校你一次要問三次要問四次"},{"start":297.945,"end":311.295,"text":"主委如果存在的情況是這麼嚴苛請問你要做的亞洲資產管理中心有哪一個人的錢願意回來台灣當然我們現在"},{"start":315.188,"end":343.987,"text":"其實從金額來看我們確實在推動這個過程當中已經在逐步顯現成效也跟剛剛委員稍微這個說明一下其實我們各個部會在過去我們非常非常密集的溝通那沒有委員講說他們就扯後腿那主委你記得因為各個部會有他自己非常專業的考量我們都尊重但是我們持續的希望他給我們一些協助也有若干的時間了"},{"start":345.728,"end":373.116,"text":"大概還沒超過30年其實我們一般的公務人員大家都很認真唯一要突破的一個破口就是你把三個單位因為你每次我發現你要推都是A推B B推C答案永遠說我要再查查看我再去了解一下有幾個案例那洗錢總共有多少錢每次都有不斷的科目會出現"},{"start":374.557,"end":402.871,"text":"那造成你的推動力道明顯的打折我建議一個可以解決你的方法這個方法是累積多年的經驗如果你這個方法做起來做不成那你來找我我請你吃一碗牛肉麵你要不要試試看這個方法呢說難也不難你就把三個單位"},{"start":404.557,"end":424.815,"text":"重要的單位重要的人可以決定的人你全部叫過來從現在現在是早上現在11點嘛你就說我們為了推動台灣成為亞洲的資產管理中心大家心裡都沒有障礙就從現在11點現在11點開始開會開到中午肚子餓了叫便當"},{"start":432.97,"end":450.898,"text":"還沒有結論沒有關係到了晚上給他們選擇繼續吃便當你總要給他選擇啊吃這個排骨飯或是雞腿飯或是什麼飯通通可以你要讓他們有選擇晚上開完還沒有結論繼續開吃宵夜所以你要有這個精神才有辦法突破"},{"start":459.98,"end":466.211,"text":"不然我看半年以來所謂OBU OIU OSU特別OIU的部分有沒有成果"},{"start":468.754,"end":495.516,"text":"OIU的部分剛剛有說明過去年基期很低今年我們有開放新商品跟新的做法我應該很有信心應該一定會有一些成果今天是幾月了今天是3月31號這個截至3月底之前OIU做了幾件金額是多少去年我們有個金額我們請局長待會馬上補充過來局長馬上說去年沒有嘛今年做了多少"},{"start":496.565,"end":514.992,"text":"注意聽喔 這很重要是 報告委員 今年的到1月份的那個有效契約件數不好意思 有效契約件數總共有672件那保費收入100多件 總金額多少到今年1月底的總金額有1600億左右1000多對 1600億 保費收入1000多億是不是抱歉 1000多萬"},{"start":525,"end":532.845,"text":"哇 我看一張 我以為是不是一千多億所以一百多件 總共是多少大聲一點 勇敢說出來"},{"start":534.683,"end":551.368,"text":"到今年一月份為止是一千六百萬哇 一千多萬我們龐大的團隊我想所有東西都一定要不要講OSU 來講一下有幾件OSU 我們拒絕同仁來給委員這個數字"},{"start":557.441,"end":585.046,"text":"那我們是不是OBU要準備一下好OBU不用啦因為OBU大家都很熟OSU的部分總共幾件那總金額多少一千七百多萬多少一千多一千多億一千七百對一千七百一千七百二十五億美元一千多億是不是對對一千多億一千多億美元喔每一千七百"},{"start":586.547,"end":599.115,"text":"交易量對,就1700多億美元多億?有那麼多?有啊,OSUC有那麼多那它那個內容是什麼?為什麼這個金額會?是因為都是外資嗎?外資的進出還是?"},{"start":608.393,"end":619.891,"text":"主要是智盈的部分智盈的買賣所產生的智盈 買台股嗎買台股OK那我們發現買台股的部分今天那個股市暴跌"},{"start":621.414,"end":644.929,"text":"今天波動比較大所以我剛剛講那個數字你再參考看看其實那個金額也不多啦因為買賣買賣像台灣的平均量那個成交量就大概五千多億了嘛所以你這個加一加其實跟你的目標還相距非常遠總之我希望你們這個三個單位要合作"},{"start":645.569,"end":655.321,"text":"那當然我們會持續交談合作然後努力的達成協議做出成績好 那請問一下主委今天股市為什麼暴跌"},{"start":655.885,"end":683.87,"text":"今天我想因為很多原因啦當我說今天早上從我們我們前一天我們的期貨那個收盤美國大概也我們相關聯動比較高的指數呢也做了蠻大的修正啦所以我們台灣是反映這個國際股市大概這樣一個情形所以台股會不會再跌這我不是分析師我無法做對未來做預測如果台股再暴跌的話國安基金會不會進場"},{"start":690.172,"end":711.397,"text":"我想這一次這個股市不是只有台灣的股市是全球股市都受到美國關稅政策的影響所以現在充滿了不確定性關稅政策的影響我上次在這邊質詢的時候所有的官員說影響不大結果影響不大台積電已經破一千塊了一直質疑"},{"start":712.662,"end":739.562,"text":"直墜式的下滑股市最怕的就是不確定性跟預期心理所以像這種到目前因為他是講說4月2號他要宣布他的政策所以現在大家都在觀望所以台股如果再跌1000點破2萬以後國安基金會不會進場這個我們到時候會評估到時候會如果有必要的話會召開這個相關委員會議那麼來就可能會進場也可能不會進場"},{"start":741.984,"end":766.426,"text":"會討論這個事情會討論這個事 國安基金會討論這個事可是國安基金的規模只有五千億啊主委你希望多少億的規模才會夠彭主委這個金管會員沒辦法去對這個做評論因為這個畢竟我們對資本市場我們是一個資本市場的監理現在是五千億吧那個要由主政單位來決定那你覺得夠不夠"},{"start":769.7,"end":786.589,"text":"因為9年前規模只有7兆多現在市值的規道已經超過了幾億幾兆70兆左右我來說明一下可以嗎因為我們國安基金會成立的時候是民國89年那時候的市值大概是7兆多"},{"start":787.609,"end":792.251,"text":"大概八九兆最近大概七十幾兆有一點修正超過九倍多我想就是說你可能會後找個時間到羅明財委員的辦公室"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":691,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（11時）主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。主席，請金管會彭主委、財政部阮次長及央行朱副總裁。"],["主席：請彭主委、財政部阮次長、央行朱副總裁。"],["羅委員明才：主委好。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["羅委員明才：你要力推臺灣成為亞洲的資產管理中心，立意良善，我們也看到你從上個會期到現在很努力在做，可是周邊單位步伐不一致，造成成效不彰，你們在……"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實前面已經有成效，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：財政部大概就是稅的部分，以及央行的部分，你們有沒有成為一個財經的team，可以真的來支持你推動臺灣成為亞洲的資產管理中心？"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告……"],["羅委員明才：我請教財政部。因為主推的是金管會，財政部準備好了嗎？"],["阮次長清華：基本上，我們協助金管會來推動亞洲資產管理中心。"],["羅委員明才：會全力支持，還是做一半？"],["阮次長清華：我們當然全力支持，比如最近在修OIU條例，我們就同意。"],["羅委員明才：謝謝。請問央行也準備好了嗎？"],["朱副總裁美麗：我們現在有兩個部分，有一部分就是在報告中寫的，已經做的；還有一部分是因為要配合金管會的時序，我們正在擬訂，所以在我們報告中有四個部分，第四點、亞灣專區還在……"],["羅委員明才：不是！副總裁，央行準備好了沒？"],["朱副總裁美麗：是準備在修正，我們外匯局有個team。"],["羅委員明才：因為我看到主委很積極，畢竟剛上任，彭主委是點子王，以及看起來比較年輕、有很高的理想，想要做點事。可是現在即便匯20萬臺幣回來，央行也查三次、四次，當然你們都說是要查洗錢等等。請問央行，說要找國際洗錢已經三年多了，你們這幾年有發現哪一筆是洗錢的、比較大筆的？有沒有？"],["朱副總裁美麗：這個應該不是央行業務的一環。"],["羅委員明才：有沒有？"],["朱副總裁美麗：我問一下，因為這個是外匯局……"],["羅委員明才：外匯局是你們管的，沒關係，你是副總裁，可能剛來還不大清楚。因為要成為亞洲的資產管理中心，勢必需要有一個很自由進出的金融中心，當然你的管控是你的核心，應該要立意良善，就是鼓勵為普遍，有問題再特例抓出來。我們再歸到這個問題，央行去年一整年查獲的洗錢有幾例？金額是多少？"],["蔡局長烱民：洗錢不是央行去查或怎麼樣，而是銀行之間會通報洗錢的主管機關，但是就央行的立場來講，假設不是扣除洗錢方面的，50萬、100萬依目前一些相關的規範，最主要還是為了編製我們的國際收支所需，銀行端會報給我們，大概都是為了方便我們做比較準確的國際收支編製。"],["羅委員明才：所以去年一整年所謂的洗錢防制，真正查到國際洗錢的有幾筆？總金額有多少？"],["蔡局長烱民：這部分我再跟委員報告，我們回去check一下。目前就我了解，應該沒有這樣的數字。"],["羅委員明才：每一次回答都說再check一下，你不是要設亞洲資產管理中心嗎？當主委往前衝的時候，你們就在後面扯後腿，所以造成現在普遍的情況，臺商在講50萬、80萬，明明他的兒子、小孩就在英國念書，匯錢過去是匯到學校，匯一次你要問三次、四次。主委，如果存在的情況這麼嚴苛，請問你要做的亞洲資產管理中心，有哪一個人的錢願意回來臺灣？有沒有？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實從金額來看，我們確實在推動的過程當中已經逐步顯現成效，也跟委員稍微說明一下，我們各個部會在過去就非常、非常密集的溝通，沒有委員說的他們扯後腿，倒不會！只是各個部會有自己非常專業的考量，我們都尊重，但是我們持續期望他們給我們一些協助。"],["羅委員明才：本席與公務部門的接觸也有若干的時間了，雖然還沒超過30年，其實一般公務人員都很認真，唯一要突破的破口就是你把三個單位……因為每次我發現你要推，都是A推B、B推C，答案永遠說我要再查查看、我再去了解一下有幾個案例、洗錢總共有多少錢，每次都不斷有題目會出現，造成你的推動力道明顯打折。我建議你一個可以解決的方法……"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然這個計畫……"],["羅委員明才：這個方法是累積多年的經驗，如果這個方法做不成，那你來找我，我請你吃一碗牛肉麵。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["羅委員明才：你要不要試試看？這個方法說難也不難，你就把三個單位、重要的單位、重要的人、可以決定的人全部叫過來。現在是早上11點，你就說為了推動臺灣成為亞洲的資產管理中心，大家心裡都沒有障礙，就從現在11點開始開會，開到中午，肚子餓了叫便當，還沒有結論沒有關係，到了晚上給他們選擇繼續吃便當，你總要給人家選擇，吃排骨飯或是雞腿飯，什麼飯通通可以，你要讓他們有選擇。晚上開完還沒有結論，繼續開就吃宵夜。主委，你要有這個精神才有辦法突破，不然我看半年以來所謂的OBU、OIU，OSU，特別是OIU的部分有沒有成果？"],["彭主任委員金隆：OIU的部分剛剛有說明過，去年基期很低，今年我們有開放新商品跟新的作法，我很有信心，應該一定會有一些成果。"],["羅委員明才：今天是幾月了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：今天是3月31號。"],["羅委員明才：截至3月底之前，OIU做了幾件？金額是多少？"],["彭主任委員金隆：今年我們有個金額，我請局長馬上補充。"],["羅委員明才：請局長馬上說，去年沒有嘛？今年做了多少？注意聽，這很重要！"],["王局長麗惠：今年到1月份的有效契約件數總共有672件，保費收入……"],["羅委員明才：一百多件？總金額多少？"],["王局長麗惠：到今年1月底的總金額有1,600億左右。"],["羅委員明才：一千多？"],["王局長麗惠：對，1,600億的保費收入。"],["羅委員明才：一千多億，是不是？"],["王局長麗惠：抱歉！一千多萬。"],["羅委員明才：我嚇一跳！我以為是一千多億，所以一百多件，總共是多少？"],["王局長麗惠：去年一整年是3.2……"],["羅委員明才：大聲一點，勇敢說出來！"],["王局長麗惠：到今年1月份為止是1,600萬。"],["羅委員明才：一千多萬！我們龐大的團隊……"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想所有東西都一定要……"],["羅委員明才：不要講OIU，講一下OSU有幾件？然後總金額有多少？"],["彭主任委員金隆：OSU請證期局的同仁給委員這個數字，OBU是不是也準備一下？"],["羅委員明才：OBU不用，因為OBU大家都很熟，OSU的部分總共幾件？總金額多少？"],["張局長振山：一千七百多萬。"],["羅委員明才：多少？一千多億？"],["張局長振山：1,725億美元。"],["羅委員明才：一千多億，是不是？"],["張局長振山：對，一千多億。"],["羅委員明才：一千多億？"],["張局長振山：美元喔！一千七百……交易量，就是一千七百多億美元。"],["羅委員明才：多億？有那麼多喔？"],["張局長振山：有啊！OSU是有那麼多。"],["羅委員明才：它那個內容是什麼？為什麼這個金額會……是因為都是外資嗎？外資的進出，還是？"],["張局長振山：主要是自營的部分、自營的買賣所產生的。"],["羅委員明才：自營？買臺股嗎？"],["張局長振山：買臺股。"],["羅委員明才：OK，我們發現買臺股的部分，今天股市暴跌。"],["彭主任委員金隆：今天波動比較大，對。"],["羅委員明才：所以我剛剛講的那個數字，你再參考看看啦，其實那個金額也不多，因為買賣、買賣，像臺灣的成交量就大概五千多億了，所以這個加一加其實跟你的目標還相距非常遠。總之，我希望你們這三個單位要合作，目標要確定出來……"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，我們會持續加強合作，努力的達成協議、做出成績。"],["羅委員明才：好，請問一下主委，今天股市為什麼暴跌？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想今天有很多原因，今天早上從我們前一天的期貨收盤，美國和我們相關連動比較高的指數也做了蠻大的修正，所以我們臺灣是反應國際股市，大概是這樣一個情形。"],["羅委員明才：所以臺股會不會再跌？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我不是分析師，我無法對未來做預測。"],["羅委員明才：如果臺股再暴跌的話，國安基金會不會進場？阮次長。"],["阮次長清華：我想這一次的股市不是只有臺灣的股市，是全球股市……"],["羅委員明才：所以現在還不會進場？"],["阮次長清華：受到美國關稅政策的影響，所以現在充滿了不確定性。"],["羅委員明才：關稅政策的影響？我上次在這邊質詢的時候，所有的官員說影響不大，結果影響不大，台積電已經破1,000塊了，直墜式的下滑。"],["阮次長清華：股市最怕的就是不確定性跟預期心理，所以像這種到目前，因為他是講說4月2號要宣布他的政策，所以現在大家都在觀望。"],["羅委員明才：所以臺股如果再跌1,000點，破2萬以後，國安基金會不會進場？"],["阮次長清華：這個我們到時候會評估啦，如果有必要的話會召開相關委員會議來就這部分……"],["羅委員明才：所以可能會進場，也可能不會進場？"],["阮次長清華：會討論這個事情。"],["羅委員明才：會討論這個事，國安基金會討論這個事。可是國安基金的規模只有5,000億，彭主委，你希望多少億的規模才會夠？"],["彭主任委員金隆：金管會沒辦法對這個做評論，因為畢竟我們對資本市場是一個監理……"],["羅委員明才：現在是5,000億吧！"],["彭主任委員金隆：那個要由主政單位來決定。"],["羅委員明才：那你覺得夠不夠？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我剛才講，我無法對這個做評論。"],["羅委員明才：因為9年前它的規模只有七兆多，現在市值擴大已經超過了幾兆？70兆左右。"],["阮次長清華：報告委員，我來說明一下，可以嗎？"],["羅委員明才：請說。"],["阮次長清華：因為我們國安基金成立的時候是民國89年，那時候的市值大概是……"],["羅委員明才：七兆多？"],["阮次長清華：大概8、9兆。"],["羅委員明才：8、9兆，好，現在多少？"],["阮次長清華：最近大概七十幾兆嘛！"],["羅委員明才：七十幾兆。"],["阮次長清華：有點修正。"],["羅委員明才：大概差了8、9倍啦。"],["阮次長清華：超過九倍多，但是我們……"],["主席：次長，你可能會後找個時間到羅明才委員的辦公室，好不好？"],["羅委員明才：不好意思，超過時間，謝謝。"],["阮次長清華：好，瞭解。"],["主席：不好意思。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接續我們請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":284,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-6","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","陳玉珍","顏寬恒","鍾佳濱","羅明才","李坤城","李彥秀","黃珊珊","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","林思銘","王世堅"],"page_start":227,"meetingDate":["2025-03-31"],"gazette_id":"1143301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、財政部、中央銀行、國家發展委員會及法務部就「如\n何促進台灣金融市場規模發展之執行策略（包括國際金融業務 OBU，國際保險業務 OIU，國際證\n券業務 OSU）」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143301_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}