{"error":false,"id":["15986"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":15986,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15986","日期":"2024-06-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"黨團協商-2024060393","會議代碼:str":"立法院朝野黨團協商","屆":11,"會期":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"黨團協商","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"立法院朝野黨團協商"},"影片種類":"Full","開始時間":"2024-06-05T12:00:03+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-05T14:51:00+08:00","影片長度":"02:50:57","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b73ade72829c64ed558f108d180b0e1b0876d3ed19c4b2d43be8d109af184be4c59ffdc0855aae645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-06-05T12:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：一、社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制兩委員會報告併案審查「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」等36案。二、逕付二讀：委員張嘉郡等23人、委員李彥秀等16人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員翁曉玲等22人、委員洪孟楷等19人、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員蔡易餘等17人、委員伍麗華SaidhaiTahovecahe等17人、委員羅智強等16人(2案)、委員張宏陸等19人、委員吳沛憶等21人、委員吳思瑤等18人、委員黃秀芳等17人、委員林淑芬等17人、委員賴瑞隆等17人、委員陳秀寳等26人、委員蔡其昌等17人、委員林楚茵等20人分別擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」等19案。）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"12:00:03 - 14:51:00","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2106.1153437500006,"end":2116.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2117.35409375,"end":2117.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2118.95721875,"end":2123.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2123.56409375,"end":2127.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2128.37346875,"end":2131.2422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2132.8622187500005,"end":2139.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2140.5740937500004,"end":2142.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2143.74659375,"end":2161.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2162.9334687500004,"end":2164.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2165.5997187500006,"end":2168.1140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2169.22784375,"end":2173.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2174.3240937500004,"end":2177.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2178.7959687500006,"end":2182.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2183.75721875,"end":2184.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2185.0059687500006,"end":2186.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2186.84534375,"end":2192.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2193.29159375,"end":2196.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2199.2147187500004,"end":2203.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2204.8678437500002,"end":2208.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2210.3690937500005,"end":2211.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2216.35971875,"end":2220.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2222.09721875,"end":2225.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2226.9403437500005,"end":2230.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2232.7284687500005,"end":2235.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2235.2428437500002,"end":2238.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2239.14096875,"end":2255.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2255.61096875,"end":2262.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2264.1834687500004,"end":2265.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2265.0272187500004,"end":2275.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2276.6540937500004,"end":2282.0878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2283.6572187500005,"end":2284.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2284.95659375,"end":2411.3672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2412.48096875,"end":2413.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2414.7253437500003,"end":2415.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2416.49721875,"end":2447.2265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2447.5134687500004,"end":2447.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2448.1715937500003,"end":2453.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2454.24659375,"end":2455.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2455.19159375,"end":2455.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2456.0184687500005,"end":2458.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2458.9715937500005,"end":2459.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2461.06409375,"end":2461.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2461.09784375,"end":2508.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2509.68096875,"end":2509.7147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2509.7147187500004,"end":2511.5878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2512.14471875,"end":2513.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2514.37221875,"end":2518.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2518.9284687500003,"end":2557.5553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2558.09534375,"end":2558.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2560.4072187500005,"end":2560.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2560.42409375,"end":2562.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2562.4997187500003,"end":2564.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2566.3134687500005,"end":2577.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2578.07534375,"end":2610.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2613.5634687500005,"end":2613.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2613.58034375,"end":2613.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2613.9684687500003,"end":2614.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2614.55909375,"end":2614.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2614.60971875,"end":2615.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2617.30971875,"end":2617.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2618.28846875,"end":2630.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2631.2653437500003,"end":2643.4490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2643.78659375,"end":2645.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2649.33846875,"end":2650.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2650.6209687500004,"end":2651.9034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2653.3884687500004,"end":2696.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2696.9765937500006,"end":2699.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2700.80721875,"end":2713.8347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2714.3240937500004,"end":2716.4334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2716.6865937500006,"end":2770.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2772.7284687500005,"end":2805.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2805.22971875,"end":2827.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2828.97284375,"end":2830.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2831.3522187500002,"end":2874.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2875.34534375,"end":2876.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2877.0497187500005,"end":2904.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2905.16346875,"end":2905.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2906.0409687500005,"end":2906.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2907.2390937500004,"end":2916.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2917.04346875,"end":2933.1084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2933.78346875,"end":2964.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2965.2215937500005,"end":2965.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2967.3984687500006,"end":2967.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2968.1240937500006,"end":2984.9822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2985.13409375,"end":2986.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2986.9228437500005,"end":2990.1797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2990.44971875,"end":2991.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2990.5340937500005,"end":2990.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2991.59721875,"end":3000.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3001.09784375,"end":3005.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3005.7215937500005,"end":3005.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3006.16034375,"end":3039.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3039.6572187500005,"end":3040.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3040.9734687500004,"end":3043.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3045.58034375,"end":3063.3497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3063.8728437500004,"end":3083.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3083.9372187500003,"end":3093.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3093.85971875,"end":3118.2947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3119.0372187500006,"end":3148.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3149.2940937500007,"end":3155.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3155.40284375,"end":3176.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3180.1922187500004,"end":3184.7147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3184.9509687500004,"end":3189.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3189.38909375,"end":3200.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3189.43971875,"end":3189.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3201.69096875,"end":3202.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3202.9228437500005,"end":3204.2390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3206.87159375,"end":3211.7653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3212.2547187500004,"end":3212.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3213.8747187500003,"end":3219.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3221.0465937500003,"end":3221.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3221.08034375,"end":3221.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3222.5653437500005,"end":3261.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3261.4959687500004,"end":3277.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3277.9659687500007,"end":3328.7428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3329.75534375,"end":3373.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3373.07346875,"end":3377.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3378.8278437500003,"end":3379.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3379.90784375,"end":3379.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3379.9247187500005,"end":3379.9415937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3379.9415937500007,"end":3380.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3381.1903437500005,"end":3404.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3404.7647187500006,"end":3408.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3409.5065937500003,"end":3410.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3410.9072187500005,"end":3425.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3425.9259687500007,"end":3435.5615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3435.8484687500004,"end":3438.1940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3438.6159687500003,"end":3476.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3480.2128437500005,"end":3549.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3550.09221875,"end":3554.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3555.08721875,"end":3568.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3568.77284375,"end":3569.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3569.8865937500004,"end":3570.2409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3570.51096875,"end":3572.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3573.4303437500002,"end":3582.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3584.93909375,"end":3585.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3587.1328437500006,"end":3591.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3591.8240937500004,"end":3605.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3606.4715937500005,"end":3616.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3618.0984687500004,"end":3639.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3639.9347187500007,"end":3649.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3650.0597187500007,"end":3651.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3651.03846875,"end":3722.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3724.5965937500005,"end":3724.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3724.7822187500005,"end":3726.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3724.8328437500004,"end":3724.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3724.86659375,"end":3726.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3726.01409375,"end":3726.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3726.0478437500005,"end":3726.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3726.97596875,"end":3847.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3847.9022187500004,"end":3849.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3849.74159375,"end":3934.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3936.5465937500003,"end":3936.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3936.5634687500005,"end":3938.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3938.87534375,"end":3941.0353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3941.0353437500007,"end":3941.0690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3941.0690937500003,"end":3941.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3941.52471875,"end":3941.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3941.54159375,"end":3942.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3942.5709687500002,"end":3942.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3942.7059687500005,"end":3942.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3942.7565937500003,"end":3946.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3946.35096875,"end":3986.2940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3988.25159375,"end":3990.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3991.0528437500006,"end":3991.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3993.0778437500003,"end":4017.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4017.6815937500005,"end":4024.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4025.07284375,"end":4030.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4031.56971875,"end":4046.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4046.8584687500006,"end":4075.9172187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4078.04346875,"end":4080.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4081.2497187500003,"end":4123.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4124.2978437500005,"end":4124.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4125.310343749999,"end":4126.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4126.84596875,"end":4145.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4145.59409375,"end":4176.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4177.6903437500005,"end":4178.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4178.888468749999,"end":4183.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4183.7147187499995,"end":4211.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4212.503468749999,"end":4213.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4214.663468750001,"end":4214.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4214.68034375,"end":4216.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4222.1728437500005,"end":4224.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4225.345343749999,"end":4227.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4227.80909375,"end":4233.360968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4234.10346875,"end":4238.237843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4241.20784375,"end":4251.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4254.792218750001,"end":4283.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4284.1884687500005,"end":4315.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4317.077843749999,"end":4317.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4317.11159375,"end":4318.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4320.30096875,"end":4427.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4427.54159375,"end":4433.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4433.97096875,"end":4434.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4434.00471875,"end":4434.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4434.460343750001,"end":4447.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4447.774718750001,"end":4451.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4451.284718749999,"end":4452.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4452.921593749999,"end":4455.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4456.33034375,"end":4457.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4457.49471875,"end":4479.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4479.58409375,"end":4484.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4485.57471875,"end":4486.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4487.059718750001,"end":4491.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4492.358468750001,"end":4492.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4492.679093750001,"end":4492.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4492.763468749999,"end":4492.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4492.780343750001,"end":4492.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4492.79721875,"end":4492.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4492.965968750001,"end":4493.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4493.151593750001,"end":4493.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4493.35409375,"end":4493.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4493.74221875,"end":4493.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4493.77596875,"end":4493.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4493.8603437500005,"end":4493.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4493.87721875,"end":4493.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4493.944718750001,"end":4493.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4493.97846875,"end":4494.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4494.85596875,"end":4494.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4494.872843749999,"end":4495.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4495.42971875,"end":4499.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4499.78346875,"end":4500.593468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4500.6103437500005,"end":4502.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4505.200343750001,"end":4505.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4505.21721875,"end":4513.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4513.6884687500005,"end":4530.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4530.66471875,"end":4536.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4537.04346875,"end":4537.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4541.481593750001,"end":4542.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4543.5740937499995,"end":4581.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4581.81284375,"end":4583.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4583.78721875,"end":4634.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4634.68221875,"end":4659.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4659.57284375,"end":4661.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4662.20534375,"end":4663.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4665.512843750001,"end":4666.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4666.03596875,"end":4666.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4666.89659375,"end":4666.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4666.913468750001,"end":4667.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4667.11596875,"end":4668.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4667.13284375,"end":4679.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4680.34596875,"end":4702.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4703.380343750001,"end":4704.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4704.84846875,"end":4775.048468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4775.942843750001,"end":4784.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4785.224093750001,"end":4785.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4786.05096875,"end":4819.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4820.3240937499995,"end":4828.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4829.4872187500005,"end":4839.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4839.57846875,"end":4846.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4847.02034375,"end":4847.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4847.104718750001,"end":4849.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4850.530343750001,"end":4851.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4851.67784375,"end":4852.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4852.622843749999,"end":4854.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4854.175343750001,"end":4871.657843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4874.577218750001,"end":4874.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4874.96534375,"end":4875.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4875.319718750001,"end":4875.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4875.420968750001,"end":4875.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4875.8934687500005,"end":4884.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4886.69346875,"end":4887.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4887.452843749999,"end":4906.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4906.92659375,"end":4907.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4907.9559687500005,"end":4923.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4924.1053437499995,"end":4924.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4925.53971875,"end":4935.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4935.749093750001,"end":4936.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4936.677218750001,"end":4945.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4945.6209687499995,"end":4947.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4948.0340937500005,"end":4966.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4967.22096875,"end":4984.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4984.669718749999,"end":4984.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4984.7372187500005,"end":4984.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4985.614718750001,"end":4991.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4991.284718750001,"end":4991.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4991.92596875,"end":4991.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4991.942843750001,"end":4992.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4992.179093750001,"end":5054.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5054.41409375,"end":5055.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5056.202843749999,"end":5058.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5058.464093750001,"end":5083.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5083.911593750001,"end":5107.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5109.02159375,"end":5111.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5112.784718750001,"end":5112.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5113.00409375,"end":5125.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5125.37346875,"end":5148.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5148.407843749999,"end":5148.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5149.74096875,"end":5150.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5150.02784375,"end":5150.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5151.327218750001,"end":5185.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5187.30471875,"end":5191.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5196.045968750001,"end":5196.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5196.889718750001,"end":5198.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5198.44221875,"end":5199.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5200.163468750001,"end":5201.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5202.036593750001,"end":5202.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5204.702843749999,"end":5208.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5212.22909375,"end":5229.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5229.036593750001,"end":5239.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5239.78596875,"end":5240.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5240.5790937500005,"end":5241.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5243.21159375,"end":5243.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5243.22846875,"end":5245.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5247.3290937500005,"end":5262.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5263.3603437500005,"end":5266.954718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5267.12346875,"end":5273.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5274.29534375,"end":5294.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5294.25846875,"end":5298.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5299.439093749999,"end":5314.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5314.94721875,"end":5314.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5315.16659375,"end":5320.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5320.347218750001,"end":5325.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5325.67971875,"end":5327.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5327.97471875,"end":5404.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5404.99221875,"end":5440.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5440.682843750001,"end":5482.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5482.93784375,"end":5520.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5521.14284375,"end":5587.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5587.90034375,"end":5623.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5624.046593749999,"end":5690.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5690.5340937500005,"end":5706.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5707.45971875,"end":5712.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5713.247843749999,"end":5719.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5720.30159375,"end":5731.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5731.79346875,"end":5752.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5752.954718749999,"end":5762.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5763.2147187499995,"end":5771.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5771.753468750001,"end":5789.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5789.74221875,"end":5790.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5791.14284375,"end":5842.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5843.995343750001,"end":5883.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5883.71909375,"end":5894.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5894.654093749999,"end":5907.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5908.204718750001,"end":5925.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5925.029093749999,"end":5925.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5927.475968750001,"end":5931.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5932.09971875,"end":5932.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5932.13346875,"end":5975.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5975.40096875,"end":5990.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5990.200343750001,"end":6005.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6006.14721875,"end":6009.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6009.77534375,"end":6050.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6050.62971875,"end":6057.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6057.497843749999,"end":6085.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6086.26971875,"end":6108.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6108.89909375,"end":6164.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6166.122218750001,"end":6174.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6176.2303437499995,"end":6179.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6181.46159375,"end":6184.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6185.88284375,"end":6186.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6186.94596875,"end":6188.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6189.139718750001,"end":6190.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6191.569718750001,"end":6193.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6193.628468750001,"end":6196.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6198.134093750001,"end":6199.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6201.1209687499995,"end":6202.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6203.87159375,"end":6206.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6208.343468749999,"end":6208.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6209.845343750001,"end":6211.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6213.76034375,"end":6215.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6216.3084687499995,"end":6217.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6218.468468749999,"end":6220.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6222.501593750001,"end":6223.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6224.27346875,"end":6224.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6224.88096875,"end":6224.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6225.420968750001,"end":6225.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6225.43784375,"end":6226.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6226.028468750001,"end":6243.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6244.23659375,"end":6245.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6245.97471875,"end":6246.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6247.89846875,"end":6296.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6297.52784375,"end":6312.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6312.95159375,"end":6352.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6353.92409375,"end":6354.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6356.421593749999,"end":6368.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6368.841593749999,"end":6370.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6372.11534375,"end":6457.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6457.80659375,"end":6457.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6458.86971875,"end":6474.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6475.18784375,"end":6480.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6481.80284375,"end":6481.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6481.870343750001,"end":6494.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6496.09596875,"end":6502.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6505.47846875,"end":6506.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6505.765343749999,"end":6506.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6506.760968750001,"end":6507.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6508.09409375,"end":6510.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6510.507218750001,"end":6512.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6516.90284375,"end":6520.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6520.9697187500005,"end":6575.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6575.999093750001,"end":6690.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6690.34409375,"end":6742.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6743.2303437499995,"end":6743.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6743.331593750001,"end":6743.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6743.669093750001,"end":6743.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6743.7197187500005,"end":6756.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6756.81471875,"end":6758.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6759.278468750001,"end":6759.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6759.76784375,"end":6770.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6770.12909375,"end":6775.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6775.022843750001,"end":6775.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6775.1747187500005,"end":6775.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6775.19159375,"end":6775.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6775.309718750001,"end":6775.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6775.680968750001,"end":6775.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6776.96346875,"end":6779.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6779.5115937499995,"end":6843.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6825.732218749999,"end":6826.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6843.9403437500005,"end":6855.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6844.04159375,"end":6844.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6844.09221875,"end":6844.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6855.48284375,"end":6857.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6858.216593749999,"end":6863.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6863.78534375,"end":6872.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6874.70346875,"end":6875.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6876.795968750001,"end":6884.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6885.01409375,"end":6892.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6892.97909375,"end":6898.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6898.733468750001,"end":6899.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6899.22284375,"end":6915.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6916.1990937499995,"end":6947.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6923.894093750001,"end":6924.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6947.9072187500005,"end":6952.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6952.919093750001,"end":6991.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6991.5965937500005,"end":7015.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7009.60221875,"end":7009.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7015.27221875,"end":7026.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7027.00034375,"end":7035.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7035.404093749999,"end":7041.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7041.647843750001,"end":7042.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7043.40284375,"end":7044.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7044.837218750001,"end":7044.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7045.529093749999,"end":7084.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7085.21909375,"end":7105.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7105.73909375,"end":7116.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7116.43784375,"end":7165.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7166.08409375,"end":7166.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7166.16846875,"end":7166.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7166.32034375,"end":7186.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7166.337218750001,"end":7167.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7187.515343750001,"end":7188.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7188.561593750001,"end":7189.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7189.52346875,"end":7189.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7191.126593750001,"end":7232.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7234.157843750001,"end":7236.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7237.1278437500005,"end":7239.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7239.034718750001,"end":7286.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7286.9090937500005,"end":7291.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7294.958468750001,"end":7296.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7297.23659375,"end":7320.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7320.321593750001,"end":7323.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7324.388468749999,"end":7327.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7329.61971875,"end":7345.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7346.241593750001,"end":7364.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7365.512843750001,"end":7366.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7367.30159375,"end":7396.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7396.529093749999,"end":7401.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7401.507218750001,"end":7421.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7422.3309687500005,"end":7447.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7447.23846875,"end":7456.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7456.70534375,"end":7457.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7457.41409375,"end":7469.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7469.59784375,"end":7471.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7471.8759687500005,"end":7478.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7476.465968750001,"end":7476.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7478.87909375,"end":7493.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7493.86409375,"end":7500.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7500.968468750001,"end":7505.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7506.11534375,"end":7506.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7506.132218750001,"end":7552.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7552.23471875,"end":7562.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7564.030343750001,"end":7566.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7566.20721875,"end":7573.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7573.09221875,"end":7574.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7574.6278437500005,"end":7575.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7574.64471875,"end":7587.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7588.634093750001,"end":7590.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7588.80284375,"end":7589.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7593.52784375,"end":7698.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7698.878468750001,"end":7713.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7713.644093750001,"end":7721.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7724.376593750001,"end":7725.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7725.034718750001,"end":7726.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7727.39721875,"end":7804.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7804.70159375,"end":7905.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7905.63096875,"end":7944.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7944.966593749999,"end":7958.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7958.58471875,"end":7988.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7988.655968750001,"end":7992.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7992.62159375,"end":8031.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8032.497218750001,"end":8042.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8042.655968750001,"end":8048.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8050.485968750001,"end":8051.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8051.802218750001,"end":8051.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8053.405343750001,"end":8053.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8054.55284375,"end":8074.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8075.005343750001,"end":8080.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8080.84409375,"end":8082.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8082.464093750001,"end":8112.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8113.497218750001,"end":8119.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8119.99409375,"end":8126.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8126.710343750001,"end":8127.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8127.19971875,"end":8127.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8128.482218750001,"end":8132.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8132.97096875,"end":8136.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8137.577843750001,"end":8138.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8139.67034375,"end":8141.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8140.69971875,"end":8141.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8141.138468750001,"end":8141.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8143.247843750001,"end":8143.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8143.4334687499995,"end":8144.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8148.698468750001,"end":8148.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8148.968468750001,"end":8149.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8151.077843750001,"end":8154.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8154.368468750001,"end":8155.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8159.73471875,"end":8162.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8162.654093750001,"end":8163.497843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8163.02534375,"end":8165.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8165.03346875,"end":8169.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8170.484093750001,"end":8185.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8185.94159375,"end":8186.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8189.755343750001,"end":8189.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8189.78909375,"end":8190.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8190.413468750001,"end":8191.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8192.55659375,"end":8196.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8196.03284375,"end":8240.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8240.954093750002,"end":8240.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8240.97096875,"end":8247.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8249.13846875,"end":8249.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8251.450343750003,"end":8258.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8259.550343750001,"end":8264.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8265.203468750002,"end":8269.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8269.81034375,"end":8271.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8275.328468750002,"end":8276.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8276.50971875,"end":8277.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8278.534718750001,"end":8278.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8279.61471875,"end":8280.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8283.512843750003,"end":8286.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8288.91284375,"end":8290.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8291.12346875,"end":8295.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8295.03846875,"end":8295.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8295.274718750003,"end":8295.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8295.308468750001,"end":8295.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8295.64596875,"end":8295.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8295.76409375,"end":8320.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8320.03034375,"end":8360.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8362.909718750001,"end":8367.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8367.989093750002,"end":8368.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8368.05659375,"end":8369.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8371.634093750003,"end":8372.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8372.039093750001,"end":8372.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8373.65909375,"end":8378.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8378.62034375,"end":8389.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8390.331593750001,"end":8415.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8415.52596875,"end":8416.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8416.977218750002,"end":8418.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8420.85846875,"end":8425.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8425.02659375,"end":8448.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8450.38971875,"end":8450.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8451.55409375,"end":8452.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8452.02659375,"end":8453.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8454.86159375,"end":8459.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8465.77971875,"end":8465.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8465.796593750001,"end":8467.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8467.99034375,"end":8469.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8471.027843750002,"end":8472.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8473.57596875,"end":8501.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8512.86096875,"end":8513.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8514.008468750002,"end":8515.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8514.34596875,"end":8514.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8514.531593750002,"end":8514.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8514.683468750001,"end":8514.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8516.759093750003,"end":8516.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8516.77596875,"end":8517.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8517.164093750001,"end":8521.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8521.04534375,"end":8521.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8542.98284375,"end":8547.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8547.117218750001,"end":8547.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8548.399718750003,"end":8549.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8549.78346875,"end":8552.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8580.31034375,"end":8580.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8580.968468750001,"end":8581.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8581.339718750001,"end":8586.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8586.199718750002,"end":8587.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8588.309093750002,"end":8588.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8589.33846875,"end":8590.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8591.17784375,"end":8592.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8592.426593750002,"end":8593.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8593.894718750002,"end":8596.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8597.016593750002,"end":8602.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8602.73721875,"end":8659.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8659.36971875,"end":8659.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8660.26409375,"end":8660.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8660.280968750001,"end":8665.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8667.520343750002,"end":8670.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8670.08534375,"end":8670.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8672.430968750003,"end":8672.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8672.44784375,"end":8672.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8672.785343750002,"end":8672.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8672.81909375,"end":8672.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8674.371593750002,"end":8674.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8675.367218750001,"end":8677.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8680.497218750003,"end":8687.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8688.344093750002,"end":8689.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8693.05221875,"end":8693.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8693.06909375,"end":8693.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8693.085968750001,"end":8696.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8699.160968750002,"end":8702.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8705.45534375,"end":8708.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8723.91659375,"end":8741.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8742.83346875,"end":8761.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8761.56471875,"end":8771.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8772.027218750001,"end":8781.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8782.55721875,"end":8788.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8791.079093750002,"end":8795.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8793.79596875,"end":8794.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8795.972843750002,"end":8797.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8795.98971875,"end":8797.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8797.035968750002,"end":8797.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8797.42409375,"end":8797.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8798.774093750002,"end":8800.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8800.37721875,"end":8802.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8802.58784375,"end":8805.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8808.17346875,"end":8815.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8814.383468750002,"end":8815.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8815.68284375,"end":8815.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8815.750343750002,"end":8823.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8823.73221875,"end":8828.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8829.098468750002,"end":8829.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8831.76471875,"end":8837.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8838.81846875,"end":8840.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8845.83846875,"end":8845.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8845.855343750001,"end":8872.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8872.72034375,"end":8874.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8875.30221875,"end":8877.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8878.187843750002,"end":8889.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8890.118468750003,"end":8894.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8894.94471875,"end":8898.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8899.26471875,"end":8901.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8902.065968750001,"end":8902.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8903.601593750001,"end":8904.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8905.390343750001,"end":8905.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8906.41971875,"end":8907.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8908.63034375,"end":8909.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8909.96346875,"end":8910.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8913.01784375,"end":8917.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8915.903468750003,"end":8931.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8931.023468750001,"end":8935.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8937.098468750002,"end":8947.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8948.13471875,"end":8948.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8948.97846875,"end":8950.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8950.328468750002,"end":8954.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8954.00721875,"end":8954.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8954.93534375,"end":8955.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8955.03659375,"end":8961.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8962.680968750003,"end":8967.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8967.22034375,"end":8971.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8971.75971875,"end":8971.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8971.793468750002,"end":8973.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8976.36659375,"end":8978.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8979.67409375,"end":8980.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8982.070343750001,"end":8999.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8999.519093750001,"end":9000.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9001.13909375,"end":9015.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9022.789718750002,"end":9024.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9024.46034375,"end":9028.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9028.425968750002,"end":9036.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9036.57659375,"end":9060.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9060.960968750001,"end":9087.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9088.31534375,"end":9106.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9106.793468750002,"end":9125.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9126.300968750002,"end":9133.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9134.50221875,"end":9134.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9136.425968750002,"end":9140.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9142.04534375,"end":9162.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9162.49784375,"end":9163.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9164.10096875,"end":9165.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9165.585968750001,"end":9167.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9167.61096875,"end":9178.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9179.06909375,"end":9190.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9190.56096875,"end":9210.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9212.86971875,"end":9222.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9222.87659375,"end":9223.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9223.956593750001,"end":9224.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9225.05346875,"end":9225.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9226.707218750002,"end":9229.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9229.96409375,"end":9251.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9252.812843750002,"end":9254.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9254.95596875,"end":9254.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9255.124718750001,"end":9258.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9258.128468750001,"end":9261.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9261.55409375,"end":9345.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9346.90784375,"end":9348.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9349.55721875,"end":9354.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9354.737843750001,"end":9356.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9357.218468750001,"end":9371.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9372.456593750001,"end":9373.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9375.004718750002,"end":9378.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9380.320343750001,"end":9381.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9402.96659375,"end":9403.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9403.97909375,"end":9405.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9405.83534375,"end":9406.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9406.493468750003,"end":9406.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9407.438468750002,"end":9408.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9408.24846875,"end":9408.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9412.09596875,"end":9417.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9418.019093750001,"end":9420.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9420.60096875,"end":9428.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9436.109093750001,"end":9437.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9439.26471875,"end":9439.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9439.973468750002,"end":9440.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9440.344718750002,"end":9441.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9442.234718750002,"end":9442.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9442.25159375,"end":9450.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9451.043468750002,"end":9474.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9474.347843750002,"end":9485.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9485.957843750002,"end":9490.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9494.665343750003,"end":9495.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9495.05346875,"end":9514.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9496.555343750002,"end":9496.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9516.97409375,"end":9517.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9517.007843750001,"end":9517.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9520.011593750001,"end":9525.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9526.47471875,"end":9527.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9527.63909375,"end":9527.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9530.457218750002,"end":9544.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9544.31159375,"end":9573.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9574.703468750002,"end":9574.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9574.973468750002,"end":9577.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9578.63534375,"end":9580.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9583.27596875,"end":9585.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9585.469718750002,"end":9586.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9587.86596875,"end":9601.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9602.344718750002,"end":9618.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9618.59534375,"end":9623.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9623.809718750003,"end":9628.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9629.56409375,"end":9632.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9632.36534375,"end":9634.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9636.33096875,"end":9640.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9640.65096875,"end":9663.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9662.89221875,"end":9666.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9667.313468750002,"end":9668.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9669.726593750001,"end":9671.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9671.92034375,"end":9673.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9672.91596875,"end":9676.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9678.687218750001,"end":9719.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9720.722843750002,"end":9722.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9723.11909375,"end":9731.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9731.590343750002,"end":9732.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9732.383468750002,"end":9732.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9732.704093750002,"end":9733.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9733.952843750001,"end":9736.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9734.020343750002,"end":9734.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9736.14659375,"end":9739.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9736.29846875,"end":9737.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9739.16721875,"end":9741.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9742.32284375,"end":9748.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9748.80284375,"end":9750.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9752.160968750002,"end":9752.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9756.059093750002,"end":9759.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9761.543468750002,"end":9765.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9766.909718750001,"end":9768.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9768.69846875,"end":9775.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9776.96721875,"end":9777.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9777.000968750002,"end":9777.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9777.034718750001,"end":9777.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9777.13596875,"end":9809.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9810.97034375,"end":9810.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9810.98721875,"end":9811.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9811.965968750003,"end":9813.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9815.30721875,"end":9816.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9816.539093750001,"end":9816.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9817.399718750003,"end":9817.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9817.450343750003,"end":9863.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9863.35034375,"end":9863.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9864.734093750001,"end":9864.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9864.97034375,"end":9865.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9866.117843750002,"end":9888.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9889.219718750002,"end":9909.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9910.07721875,"end":9914.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9914.54909375,"end":9960.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9961.12409375,"end":9964.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9966.574718750002,"end":9967.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9968.042843750001,"end":9968.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9975.214718750001,"end":9981.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9981.644093750001,"end":9981.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9982.184093750002,"end":9982.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9982.555343750002,"end":9982.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9982.808468750001,"end":9982.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9982.977218750002,"end":9986.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9986.74034375,"end":9990.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9992.39346875,"end":9993.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9996.59534375,"end":10001.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10002.19784375,"end":10002.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10002.231593750003,"end":10003.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10005.42096875,"end":10005.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10005.99471875,"end":10063.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10064.331593750001,"end":10064.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10064.972843750002,"end":10067.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10068.246593750002,"end":10069.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10069.95096875,"end":10070.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10071.250343750002,"end":10072.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10073.460968750001,"end":10074.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10074.675968750002,"end":10075.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10075.40159375,"end":10086.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10086.03284375,"end":10097.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10097.997218750003,"end":10098.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10098.452843750001,"end":10098.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10098.85784375,"end":10098.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10099.617218750001,"end":10099.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10099.634093750003,"end":10110.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10111.09221875,"end":10113.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10113.03284375,"end":10120.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10122.077843750001,"end":10122.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10122.094718750002,"end":10124.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10124.575343750003,"end":10124.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10125.55409375,"end":10125.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10125.58784375,"end":10125.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10125.97596875,"end":10126.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10126.02659375,"end":10127.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10128.22034375,"end":10146.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10148.132843750001,"end":10148.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10148.149718750003,"end":10148.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10148.925968750002,"end":10148.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10148.94284375,"end":10151.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10151.828468750002,"end":10152.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10153.195343750001,"end":10161.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10161.700343750003,"end":10175.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10174.05284375,"end":10174.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10174.67721875,"end":10174.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10176.85409375,"end":10177.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10177.74846875,"end":10177.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10177.782218750002,"end":10178.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10178.777843750002,"end":10179.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10178.79471875,"end":10179.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10179.722843750002,"end":10180.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10181.69721875,"end":10189.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10190.30346875,"end":10191.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10192.429718750001,"end":10193.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10194.82596875,"end":10195.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10198.20096875,"end":10200.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10200.495968750001,"end":10200.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10201.00221875,"end":10203.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10204.680968750003,"end":10210.03034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2106.155,"end":2127.366,"text":"好那謝謝各位出席我們開始今天的有關於兒少性剝削防制條例條文修正草案的黨團協商那我們的那個修正草案總共是55案那第一個是我們已經併案審查完略36案然後第二個逕付二讀有19案"},{"start":2133.098,"end":2161.217,"text":"我們先介紹今天出席的官員跟委員先介紹在場的委員盧憲毅委員、羅廷瑋委員、陳昭芝委員、林月琴委員、陳培宇委員、沈伯陽委員我們今天出席的官員有衛福部邱太元部長"},{"start":2162.995,"end":2192.517,"text":"呃,呃,呃,呃,呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃"},{"start":2193.359,"end":2220.085,"text":"金融監督管理委員會銀行局張曉平專門委員、證券期貨局李采珍專門委員、司法院邵家廳謝敬惠廳長、陸怡選法官、教育部學生事務及特殊教育司吳林輝司長、"},{"start":2222.268,"end":2250.236,"text":"國民及學前教育署葉信村組長行政院主計總署公務預算處王淺凱專門委員行政院人事行政總署主編人力組李靜怡副處長好謝謝今天出席的官員那我們現在呢就針對保留條文的部分開始審查總共保留條文有18條"},{"start":2252.509,"end":2261.992,"text":"那我們就按依這個條文就是依序審查那另外修正動議有12案我們現在開始協商現在針對第二條那衛福部是不是表示意見了是第二條我們在第一項第三款增訂重置持有以及支付對家關攬的這個現影像的樣態以上好那請問委員針對衛福部的這個修正條文有沒有意見第二條嗎對第二條"},{"start":2283.697,"end":2285.198,"text":"二、逕付公然陳列或販賣兒童及少年之影像與"},{"start":2303.351,"end":2321.193,"text":"相關而客觀上足以引起信譽或羞恥以真人所繪製的情色圖畫電池記錄生成你真色情的一個圖畫語音或者是其他物品那我有和民團討論過大家有共識還是覺得聚焦在真實兒童或少年"},{"start":2321.733,"end":2346.19,"text":"所以是建議是不是就改成以真實兒童或少年所繪製的色情圖畫及電池紀錄生成之你真色情的一個圖畫更為妥適我還是要重申一下我們同意衛福部的說法法條要保有彈性但是現在我們的版本入法並沒有失去這樣子的一個彈性並不是把整個法條都拿掉"},{"start":2346.67,"end":2362.135,"text":"而且是因為之前衛福部想要擴大解釋而有爭議所以現在的限縮並不是全部都否決也不是全部的都限縮全然限縮所以為了保障創作者的權益是不是在合理的範圍內能夠做一個限縮二次元的這個"},{"start":2363.775,"end":2380.4,"text":"而少涉情不涉及任何真實兒童的受害,如果把這些創作與有真實兒童受害的身為AI創作或AI混圖混為一談,範圍就會擴大,現實抓到的是沒有加害兒童的會師。"},{"start":2382,"end":2411.127,"text":"而不是真正有傷害兒童並早就打算跑遠逃避刑責的人所以堅持第二條如果要入法說明欄解釋加說明欄解釋清楚會是給ACG創作者權益最大的一個保障如果只有說明欄就算是有函式衛福部是同意函式的喔那未來也會容易被擴大解釋我們都知道ACG創作者的權益問題不是今天才發生喔所以我希望這個部分是不是衛福部"},{"start":2412.543,"end":2441.673,"text":"能夠給我們回應一下。好,來,四張。謝謝委員。針對這個擬真這個文字,兩個說明。一個,我們的確放在說明欄裡頭已經很明確的去範定它的範圍。這是第一個。第二個部分,我們不建議修的原因是因為這一條、這一款的文字是配合刑法第十條的相關文字。所以如果刑法這邊沒有修,我們在特別法修,恐怕會有一些"},{"start":2442.533,"end":2459.403,"text":"這個文字上的一個解釋法條上的解釋的疑慮以上請委員支持好那祝熙因為衛福部有這樣的說法那我是建議保留你要先保留嗎好那我們第二條先保留待會再回過來看來第三條"},{"start":2461.344,"end":2487.248,"text":"第三條我們接受委員會討論的時候委員的建議在第二項增訂了主管機關以及目的事業主管機關的權責請委員參閱另外在第四項部分我們配合性別平等政策把諮詢會的學者專家以及性別比例著作修正第五項到第六、第七"},{"start":2488.008,"end":2508.575,"text":"基於事權統一以及為了及時回應這個兒少性影像的問題,因此才中央集中來處理,所以成立性影像中心以及這個利用科技設備來做主動的巡查以及相關網路業者要配合的相關規定。以上說明。好,這是第三條,我有沒有意見?"},{"start":2514.916,"end":2530.451,"text":"第三條這邊是不是在我們的第二項的第五款這邊是不是警政主管機關這邊是不是因為可能跟我要討論第五條是有關係是不是還是把被害人身份"},{"start":2531.532,"end":2558.218,"text":"視別、盾號、人身安全之維護盾號把它加進去然後再來第三項這邊主管機關因會統前項相關機關定期公佈並檢討教育宣導之前就已經有提過就是說不要把教育宣導混雜在一談那就會變成教育沒做教育然後很多都視為宣導所以我建議教育、盾號、然後宣導以上"},{"start":2561.284,"end":2563.834,"text":"這部分警政署要不要表示意見"},{"start":2566.888,"end":2596.008,"text":"警政署報告有關於岳勤委員有提到第三條第二項第五款警政主管機關的這個部分第一個就是說被害人的保護我想應該是警政機關我們這個部分沒有問題但是被害人的識別這個部分上一次會議的時候其實我們有做說明就是其實警政機關最重要的就是犯罪的查緝所以建議這個相關的文字其實最好不要列入"},{"start":2596.488,"end":2609.684,"text":"那另外有關於後段行為人的登記報導查訪查閱的部分因為這個跟第51條其實是有連動所以也是建議這個部分是不是保留謝謝"},{"start":2618.382,"end":2630.373,"text":"因為後邊還是有資料庫,資料庫現在還是歸納在警政署的工作,那本來就有對被害人身份的那個所謂的識別,所以我認為還是要加進去。"},{"start":2631.514,"end":2645.88,"text":"以上。還有,剛剛我不知道,可能是要衛福部來回應,我們的第三項這邊,是不是同,就是針對病檢討、教育頓耗宣導。以上。加頓耗,我們尊重。好,來,陳委員。"},{"start":2653.77,"end":2678.073,"text":"這個部分我想要支持岳勤委員的版本主要是我們真的在現場實務上看見關於識別這件事情的困難性那以目前幾個案例來看例如說有些人他是主動知道他自己被偷拍可能是在網路上有人告訴他他就看見了那可是有大量的資料庫看見了困境是被害人的素材其實沒有辦法被識別"},{"start":2678.513,"end":2699.049,"text":"那如果在這個識別的部分我們行政主管機關沒有辦法給予支持跟協助那我其實也還蠻想問我們後續還有沒有什麼其他的機制來完成這件事情就是說如果你們覺得在識別這件事情不是屬於行政機關的事情那可是後續還有沒有其他的可能性可以討論還是可以請衛福部給予一些建議呢"},{"start":2700.851,"end":2715.84,"text":"因為這個是在兒少性剝削所以基本上網路上面有看起來就是影像上面有幾個跡象看起來他是兒少基本上他都是犯罪犯罪行為所以他不一定在第一時間要去識別"},{"start":2716.781,"end":2746.561,"text":"所以應該是先做移除下架的這個工作那至於說那個比例我們先前跟部長在討論的時候我們會做一個滾動修正就類似我們現在的這個安慰的方式我們一段時間會找相關網路業者跟警政還有檢察官還有這個甚至法院的相關人員大家來做一些討論在那個識別的這個標示上面有沒有一些特別的還有另外我們也可以參考國外的一些做法"},{"start":2746.981,"end":2769.884,"text":"他有一些特別的一些印記或者是他例如說我常看到就是他會特別標示他是未成年好第一個在文字上第二個他在衣著上面特別會穿一下制服穿著這個所謂的學生制服來標示他是學生未成年諸如此類那我想這個後面我們會做一些滾動修正再來做一些討論"},{"start":2773.905,"end":2795.77,"text":"好 來 警政署謝謝司長 我想警政署在這邊再做補充比如說我們創意私房它裡面有20萬片其實我們在整個偵查作為當中兒少性剝削絕對是用最高規格跟最高標準也是第一優先要去辨識這樣子的被害人但是確實它有些辨識它其實會有一些需要時間"},{"start":2797.81,"end":2825.969,"text":"就像剛剛司長所說的我們可能第一時間當了解這個確實是兒少的性影像的時候會要第一時間要先做下架的動作但是有一些我們可能在即時還沒有辦法去辨識被害人的時候他絕對是後續要做犯罪偵查也是優先的事項這個是其實要跟委員說明的尤其是兒少這個性影像的部分絕對是我們優先跟第一時間會去處理的"},{"start":2828.991,"end":2853.326,"text":"好 來 林委員因為我剛剛提到就是說因為跟後邊的第五條是有關聯性的就是說為什麼要建資料庫因為這條擺脫掉過去以往只有譬如說當初衛福部可能委託IWIN然後由我們的所謂申訴人去申訴我已經知道我自己被害所以我去申訴了"},{"start":2854.787,"end":2873.764,"text":"即便你用展示的他事實上是跟合作固定的網站去看說那或許值然後去交叉比對那也是我知道我自己是被害人了然後去做這樣那當初要建資料庫就是我覺得第五條很重要的在這邊是如果今天假設破獲了創意私房可是那裡邊有200個"},{"start":2875.385,"end":2904.039,"text":"那200個裡邊有時候身份辨別的確要時間那既然他要去做所謂的身份比對那表示警政署有這樣的工作所以我覺得本來就期待資料庫建在警政署的時候你既然就已經要做這個工作那我覺得前面在工作定義當中把它定義清楚有何不可呢因為被動跟主動不太一樣很多人都不知道自己受害我想各位應該去看6月3號報導者系列的報導寫出他們這些受害人的痛苦的時候你應該知道"},{"start":2905.202,"end":2932.895,"text":"他可能就我都知道我自己的片子我每天都要跑去iWIN去申訴我等下發現那個Telegram有等下我發現哪裡有的時候我要自己去跟如果今天破犯罪的時候把這些資料比對之後然後一一的去把這些資料不見得以後如果網路上有的話才可以去用展示的去做賀許值比對的時候讓很多網站事實上是不會再上架這才是真正的"},{"start":2934.095,"end":2961.966,"text":"鄭本清去解決問題所以我才會認為說第五條既然跟第三條有相關性的話應該在第三條就先把警政署的這個工作確定一下我想也只有增加幾個字而已不知道到底對警政署為什麼因為連第五條那時候我也是希望說比對我們的被害人的身份這邊也是沒有列入所以希望在第三條就已經列入確定的工作範圍第五條的話建的資料庫才有辦法民政"},{"start":2962.426,"end":2990.543,"text":"甚至是說你要做的工作是什麼以上好 來 警政署謝謝委員的指教我想因為確實它跟第五條有相關那請示一下就是說我們現在是要在這邊先做討論還是等進到第五條的時候我想我們行事局副局長也在現場他會做很完整的說明然後再回來看我們這個第二項的第五款的部分好"},{"start":2991.664,"end":3000.597,"text":"那第二項的部分有關於警政主管機關的部分就先保留好不好我們第三條就這個部分保留那剛剛教育動號主管機關那個就通過"},{"start":3004.448,"end":3022.19,"text":"好那我們來第五條第五條第一項我們把內政主管機關修正為中央警政主管機關那第二項第三項第四項就是剛才討論的要建立警察機關要建立這個被害人性影像的數位鑑識資料庫"},{"start":3023.581,"end":3043.802,"text":"以及資料庫的這個管理辦法以及對相關的處理這個兒少性剝削案件的司法人員要加強訓練來充實這個辦案的專業素養以上好那我們請警政署跟司法院分別表示意見來警政署"},{"start":3045.949,"end":3062.87,"text":"主席、各位委員、警政署報告首先感謝各位委員對遭性剝削條例查緝犯罪的一個支持那有關於在性偽像數位鑑識資料庫的部分這邊做一個說明就是說現在我們已經針對所有的"},{"start":3064.091,"end":3091.97,"text":"這些影像要必須都要以數位採證的程序來進行另外為便利在各司法檢查機關包含到地檢署、法院的部分由法部主導結合司法院、高檢署、調局跟警政署已經有建置一個數位的一個查扣平台從今年的4月1號開始有一個司法聯盟鏈的共同驗證平台那各司法機關的查扣的這個數位證物都必須上傳這個平台"},{"start":3093.951,"end":3117.743,"text":"另外,它可以確保它整個證據不受偽造及編造,也可以跟原先查扣的原始答案是相符的。那它在上傳影像的時候同時會,這相關的影像記錄以外,它同時會產生它的雜錯值。那這個雜錯值其實就可以讓我們未來的偵查哲學院,它如果有查扣類似的這些的一個"},{"start":3119.313,"end":3140.19,"text":"偶少性剝削的性向,他可以利用雜誌、厚紙跟原本的資料庫來做比對。所以這邊也要跟主席跟委員報告說,目前這因為新上線了,這是今年的事業要財新上線的這個資料庫,所以它是已經包含所有數位影像也包含偶少性剝削的影像,所以基本上他"},{"start":3141.372,"end":3156.065,"text":"應該不需要在另外建立一個專責的信箱出去,因為現在已經可用。那我們當然非常感謝委員能夠提查我們警察後續這段要去確認到底這個影像之前有沒有幫過,那也可以"},{"start":3156.785,"end":3176.636,"text":"減少不要人的檢數的相關作業但現在這個已經有這個司法聯盟內的數位影像這個監視平台的話它就已經有這個功能所以我們建議在第五條的第二項第三項的部分是否可以不予爭辯因為目前就已經可以達到這個功能以上所以警政署意思是說資料庫就是不用在這一個條例裡面"},{"start":3185.051,"end":3212.367,"text":"再去增設,你們現在已經有現有的,涵蓋春日跟兒少的所有的信項,而且是各司法機關,包含警察機關都可以共同運用這個司法聯盟連這個平台來去做相關的一個上傳跟相關的一個比對好,那接下來我們請司法院委員,對於第五條的部分,我們對衛不衛的版本沒有意見好"},{"start":3213.965,"end":3239.847,"text":"司法院沒有意見。好,那針對剛剛警政署的意見,各位他們有什麼看法?好,來,另外一位人。呃,我不知道剛剛警政署這樣回答,可是在我知道的第一線,有去了解的話,並沒有這樣,所以我不知道說你跟我談的,我跟你談有沒有一樣。可是當時事實上是,我有建議要設這個資料庫,所以後來你們大概也列入了,今天又突然講說,"},{"start":3240.868,"end":3242.95,"text":"等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等"},{"start":3262.043,"end":3282.03,"text":"第三條的第二項的第五款裡邊要針對於被害人的那個身份識別的這要加進去所以本來是建議你是說你的在這第二項裡邊未辦理本法第二條第一項第三款的性剝削我這邊還本來我有寫的就是希望能夠有寫"},{"start":3283.55,"end":3305.125,"text":"新剝削行為之被害人身份識別頓號才是犯罪偵查那在後邊本來你們上次提出來的版本喔你們自己提出來版本本來有寫這個還有寫並利用在第二項後端還有寫並利用該項資料庫來協助犯罪偵查我想說這次我只是要再加一個幾筆對"},{"start":3306.726,"end":3328.357,"text":"淺在被害人才能夠回應我當初已經是跟現場的警員跟IWIN這些很多團體討論出來的東西結果你現在反而連這全部都要拿掉我甚至希望因為原本期待是要達到這兩個功能的那時候你要濃縮這樣子那再把幾個字眼加上去而不是全部刪除這也是不一定去提出來的版本"},{"start":3329.83,"end":3355.578,"text":"那因為這個很重要的是這次我如果真的破獲了200個那可是我沒有辦法第一時間比對可是比對有些是未成年人因為這很多牽扯到就是形體上還有有沒有學號或者是他的特徵上那有些真的是上次比對出來可是有些可能下一次破獲的時候為什麼要這個資料庫我在北中南東的各地的警察局裡面"},{"start":3356.218,"end":3377.052,"text":"我破獲我的我破獲你的然後沒有辦法去集中去把資料放在一起的時候去做一些瞭解或者是說未來有再有的時候再又拿進來去做比對所以比較希望有這樣的資料庫那既然如果有那寫上去又有什麼問題咧所以我還是非常堅持這一點一定要入法以上好來警政署請說明"},{"start":3381.929,"end":3402.603,"text":"非常謝謝委員對於我們地方偵查同仁在這偵辦上可以讓他們可以更加檢疫不過可能因為這司法聯盟是近年4月1號才上線使用那我們各地的偵查院可能在之前在跟委員報告的時候是他們還沒獲得最新的資訊所以不了解這個"},{"start":3404.95,"end":3424.55,"text":"司法聯盟內的這個數位的鑑識平台是怎麼去運用的那所以說這可能有一點點資訊上的一個落差那如果是說委員認為說我們還是一定要去做影像比對的話警政組這邊也建議提出文字修正"},{"start":3426.252,"end":3449.691,"text":"我這邊報告一下我們建議在第二項跟第三項可以整併為為辦理本法第二條第一項第三款性剝削行為之犯罪偵查警察機關得運用數位影像、證物轉碼、比對或其他技術確認查獲之被害人性影像是否屬於前案被害人以減少被害人重複陳述就是說我們還是會去做這部分的一個比對"},{"start":3451.012,"end":3475.829,"text":"的方式那資料庫部分已經目前就已經建置了建議就不用再重複建置那但是我們也是可以去在這個條文上授予警察機關運用這些數位影像的專馬比對或其他技術因為未來可能還有更新技術我們把預留一個保留空間所以或其他技術來確認是否影像是屬於前代備案人的部分"},{"start":3481.277,"end":3484.362,"text":"專責單位,也就是這樣的經驗才會累積,否則的話,質資料庫誰拿去比對?不是,上次破獲台北市的N號房,類似韓國的N號房,"},{"start":3496.036,"end":3516.626,"text":"那些警員們他們過去做的這些經驗值他們累積去比對的時候速度是比較快像想當初黃子佼為什麼很快的可以知道說有七個是未成年也是因為他們前面有查臺北深圳N號房的經驗才有辦法第一時間再去看黃子佼他們下載這些影片哪一些是他曾經過去看過的"},{"start":3517.987,"end":3546.582,"text":"那這個為什麼要專責單位專責單位才去可以累積經驗所以不是不要忽略掉我這邊講的我這邊要的是專責單位來做這件事情所以可能沒有辦法說你講說你們之前有見的可是還是要專人去否則不會現在很多像艾文也是求助於過去在辦這個案子的警員來讓他們如果收到影片的時候以他們過去看的經驗裡面去做核對因為看過有印象大概時間上比較快所以我"},{"start":3547.142,"end":3552.617,"text":"我覺得這邊我要的事實上是專責單位然後來主辦這個性影像資料庫因為"},{"start":3555.134,"end":3581.976,"text":"我還是要講這個傷害真的很大所以我覺得如果今天我們只看重罰則我根本抓不到人因為第一個我就不知道我是受害者第二個事實上是我如果事實上是加害人我也不會來等你抓到我否則創意私房不會在台灣十幾年觸感空間也不會在台灣七八年那為什麼如果你之前有見的話那為什麼這麼多年都沒有辦法去處理這些事情"},{"start":3587.445,"end":3602.377,"text":"主席、各位委員,有關於剛剛委員所提到的專責單位,事實上我們在針對這個新影像這些的影像的檔案或是它的網站的部分,我們目前已經有,其實有針灸大隊,它屬於"},{"start":3606.767,"end":3633.801,"text":"針對於電腦犯罪偵查的一個專責單位當然它不僅限於信義項包含我們最近看到的這些在線路上的那些賣票黃牛這屬於電腦偵查犯罪的部分都是我們徵友大隊在負責偵辦那有關於委員剛所提到的創意私訪到後來還有衍生的部分其實我們也都在持續偵辦當中個案我就不做一個報告"},{"start":3635.382,"end":3647.727,"text":"有專責單位在處理電腦犯罪這一塊但他不僅局限在只有做性影像這一塊所以我們確實有專責單位一直在處理電腦犯罪相關事務這邊做個報告"},{"start":3650.114,"end":3666.472,"text":"好,我們請范雲委員,再來陳培宇委員好,謝謝喔這一條,就是第五條,我們在委員會的時候,我當時就有發言支持過林月琴委員的版本就是這個,我們很多的民間團體、婦女團體都希望有現象的資料庫"},{"start":3667.393,"end":3688.289,"text":"我記得當時我們委員會審查的時候其實蠻多跨黨派的委員都認同要做這樣的資料庫那其實我們也從國外的辦案經驗來看的話檢警這邊如果能夠建立兒少性向的大資料庫那從扣案畫面透過分析一方面溯源抓製造散播也可以多重比對發現被害人"},{"start":3688.949,"end":3689.51,"text":"主動出席"},{"start":3718.769,"end":3741.789,"text":"不能夠以我們委員的多數意見為主這樣好主席謝謝主席好謝謝主席因為我我們還蠻好奇的齁在工作的順序上因為衛福部這個版本已經列上來了嘛但是說實話我們剛剛幾個委員私下討論我們聽到警政署突然這樣的發言我們也是想說欸是要翻衛福部的版本嗎"},{"start":3742.429,"end":3771.565,"text":"好,所以是不是等一下請衛福部表達一下意見那除了剛剛兩位委員所說的之外我們真的要再一次強調我們多年從事兒少工作發現近年來有一個很大的困境現場如果你有很多人你自己是爸爸媽媽或是你家裡的親戚有人是小孩的這幾年小孩在數位媒體的使用上有非常多情況是自己不知不覺就掉入讓自己成為那個數位性剝削影像的對象"},{"start":3772.325,"end":3787.773,"text":"而在這個不知不覺的情況下不管是透過教育宣導、透過很多的說明或是透過很多的傳播讓孩子們知道你現在就處在這個危險當中所以我認為專責單位並且加上相關資料庫這件事情的意義非常重大"},{"start":3788.593,"end":3807.342,"text":"如果在這麼多海量的資料當中我們硬要把它跟原本你們所說的資料庫扣在一起那我們專門保護兒少的意義又在哪裡?所以這個部分我們還是要拜託衛福部是不是也可以表達一下立場就你們自己在現場跟兒少互動的觀察或是相關的專家學者的建議那我要再次強調不僅是報導者那個報導出來才讓我們看見問題"},{"start":3811.224,"end":3827.071,"text":"過往我們辦公室在幫助很多個案陳情在關於這個兒童數學性剝削的案例上有很多時候孩子是不知道自己已經掉入那個困境當中他們甚且不敢告訴家長不敢告訴老師持續的被相關的加害者威脅的這個狀況"},{"start":3828.732,"end":3846.324,"text":"如果我們在這件事情上沒有更積極的作為我要談的是更積極的作為去應對這件事情我會覺得今天大家坐在這裡談論這件事情實在是有違這些我們都花這麼多力氣討論的部分所以是不是可以請衛福部回應一下警政組之前有告訴你們他們今天要做這樣的調整嗎?謝謝"},{"start":3848.847,"end":3868.914,"text":"陳靜蕙委員首先我先稱讚一下衛福部因為他今天有把每一個部門要做什麼事情而且拉近數位發展部這一點我覺得很好但是他上面寫定期要有一個公佈並檢討假使你可以把定期定出比如說一年或是半年那你可以出版一個報告這樣子我們"},{"start":3869.534,"end":3880.56,"text":"委員就不用忙忙上網找你們公布的這些因為現在在衛福部保護司上面的這些宣導教材、向陽儲局專書幾乎都是107、108、109年的已經很過時了"},{"start":3885.823,"end":3900.993,"text":"那再來呢當然就針對資料庫的部分要呼應林月琴委員的意見那也希望說可以回到上次我們朝野立委都希望可以修改的部分因為這個在美國已經行之有年而且他們利用"},{"start":3901.673,"end":3902.554,"text":"沈淑慧、沈淑慧、沈淑慧"},{"start":3924.61,"end":3926.372,"text":"等19人、委員洪孟楷等19人、委員"},{"start":3936.564,"end":3956.396,"text":"好謝謝還有其他委員要發言嗎若沒有我們先請衛福部回應好謝謝委員針對這個陳培宇委員剛才所詢問的這個第五條第二項第三項這個內容是先前跟警政署討論的這個文字那剛剛在會上刑事局副長"},{"start":3957.356,"end":3972.864,"text":"報告的這個司法聯盟數位鑑識運用平臺也是第一次聽到那所以因此我們你的文字跟他們目前實際運作的狀況有一些落差那這個落差我們也覺得這個很混淆因此就說明我們過去的討論一直沒有那個司法聯盟數位鑑識運用平臺以上"},{"start":3988.257,"end":4016.911,"text":"那警政署要不要補充主席跟各位委員有關於專責人員的部分事實上在婦幼保護這一塊警政署一直有專責的人員在承辦這部分像各縣市都有警察局都有婦幼警察隊我們署也有防制署跟刑事局的預防課這邊也是承辦相關業務在屬於這些可能涉及到數位的影像的部分我們也有"},{"start":4018.011,"end":4045.437,"text":"科技偵查隊在負責這一塊所以都有專責人員在去處理這塊這先跟人做一個報告跟說明再來就是有關於性影像這部分的一個數位鑑識資料庫的部分是我這邊最主要報告說現在已經有一個司法聯盟列的一個資料庫在那個地方我們是否需要再把它再獨立再建立一個獨特的一個資料庫因為那個資料庫其實也可以達到這個功能所以"},{"start":4046.937,"end":4075.688,"text":"警政署這邊最主要是要表達說這個東西目前已經有這套的一個系統可以去運用而且它也不僅是警察機關運用包含在地檢、高檢、司法院都可以同樣運用這套系統所以在這邊當然這相關的訊息沒有即時提供也是我們算是我們沒有主動再跟衛福部來做說明報告所以他們可能不瞭解說有最新的這套系統目前已經在運用以上"},{"start":4078.083,"end":4080.443,"text":"好,那個先審柏洋委員,再林玥琴委員"},{"start":4081.717,"end":4110.517,"text":"我的建議就是按照布版通過因為其實按照剛剛保護司的講法已經有跟警政署討論過嘛這是第一個第二個就是按照文字它是指定或設立它可以指定嘛所以如果說本來就已經有單位在做你也可以用指定本來的單位在做這件事情啊如果今天本來的那個剛剛講的這個資料庫也包含信凝像數位資料庫的話這是可以涵蓋在裡面的資料庫如果說要做一個切割出來這個應該並不會有那麼大的困難啊所以我還是覺得說就是是不是按照布版的這一個條文通過"},{"start":4111.557,"end":4122.755,"text":"我覺得是因為現在都已經溝通過了那在這邊如果突然畢竟這個文字來講它有指定啦如果沒有指定是要設立的話可能會造成很多的困擾但是如果有指定的話其實對警政機關來講應該不會太麻煩才對這我的意見好另外一位"},{"start":4127.922,"end":4144.714,"text":"上次在委員會就已經討論也是各委員很同意我當初提出來版本而且警政署自己也拿一個這樣的版本就跟今天布版的事實上是一樣的我就不知道為什麼"},{"start":4145.655,"end":4174.021,"text":"不是按照當初警政署當初你也拿出來給我的版本這樣這是第一個第二個是你剛剛提的平台沒有一個人知道那我們讓我們更擔心突然來已經有前面委員會你自己提出來版本今天不版的也有這然後突然講說我有這個那為什麼大家都不知道否則等一下是不是可以解釋告訴我們那個到底存在是什麼我們從來大家都沒看過這樣的東西當然我們就有擔憂還有如果那個東西如果真的好用也針對於兒少性剝削有作我還是要講"},{"start":4175.181,"end":4195.639,"text":"為什麼創意私房跟觸感空間,然後現在台灣人也是很多齁,那我們都還是沒有辦法去做有更有效能的,畢竟他一定沒有特別針對我們想要達到的目標,我覺得我要再重申。第三個我還是要建議,除了要同意不版以外,我還是"},{"start":4196.319,"end":4196.64,"text":"警政署"},{"start":4223.019,"end":4250.595,"text":"這部分社會聯盟鏈可能因為我們偵查機關比較常在用因為4月1號才上線所以可能其他機關並不了解這個當時運用的一個存在這邊做個說明另外就是說當然我有提到說可以以執行的方式讓現在既有的單位存在的部分來去做一個處理這我們都尊重"},{"start":4254.878,"end":4274.187,"text":"那另外一個就是要跟委員報告就是說相關影像裡面的被害人的辨識其實並不容易因為我們目前要去從影像中就可以辨識出到底是這個人是什麼人我們並沒有我們現在沒有運用所謂的人靈辨識系統去做處理"},{"start":4274.787,"end":4301.039,"text":"所以說大概我們都要透過種種偵查方法才能夠去確認找到被害人所以其實他並不是那麼容易這是一個事實就如果我們很多偵查犯罪我們在入口拍攝到或是駐載他本身的自己的監視器有可能拍攝到犯罪嫌疑人我們是要經過非常多的努力才可能去辨識到這個犯罪嫌疑人那也有一些是無法辨識出來的所以說我們如果"},{"start":4302.339,"end":4314.931,"text":"現在光從這些性剝削的影像裡面,我們企圖去辨識被害人,當然這是我們警察機關一定會盡一切努力去做辨識,但我在委員會這邊也要說明報告,他並不容易,以上。來,那個范雲委員。"},{"start":4320.376,"end":4348.226,"text":"我想我們上次委員會的審查其實都有委員包含我自己也有講過就是我們警政署如果以現在的資訊或者知識來講的話會覺得很難可是就是說很多相關的專家都告訴我們說警方查扣的性影像可以用軟體生成雜湊值這個軟體要錢那到時候可能速發布也許就可以來協助那將來如果在網路上發現性影像可以直接使用那個軟體生成的雜湊值比對"},{"start":4350.327,"end":4369.375,"text":"所以最短的時間就能夠知道被害人是誰而且協助移除影像那這個雜措值其實不是原始的性影像而是一連串的數值它也可以避免實際影像外流也方便網路平臺不再把那個影像刊登上網那第三個就剛剛第一個其實有這個能力下架雜措值"},{"start":4369.895,"end":4394.382,"text":"他可以減少被害人陳述那現狀就是說其實有時候被害人到不同縣市的時候那其實這中間他還要再去找相關的檢警單位再次詢問的話會造成再次傷害那現在網路時代如果你有這樣子一個資料庫的話有時候被害人他外流影像是到其他縣市的嫌疑人刊登的時候那被害人也不用親自跑到那個外縣市"},{"start":4395.682,"end":4410.881,"text":"最後一個就是嫌犯的比對、製作模式及犯嫌的影像讓侵犯人員都能夠提供給被害人比對而不是只是身份證影像的比對所以這其實是相關的專家都有提供的意見"},{"start":4412.582,"end":4432.359,"text":"據說布版的部分,那我是又支持我們林院行委員還有多的布版沒有的文字,我們是希望多能夠放入,我想這部分其實沒有什麼黨派立場,大家就是從受害者的角度來思考,如何能夠讓我們的這個性向的問題解決,那跟現在的高科技能夠結合,以上謝謝。"},{"start":4434.041,"end":4434.862,"text":"陳佩玉衛福部"},{"start":4451.34,"end":4478.267,"text":"我們是不是可以休息下來,你們跟我們說明,或者是給我們看相關資料。是,那個我先檢調說明一下,委員在看區域要暫停說明。就是說,司法聯盟文件裡面,它上傳一項也會產生雜湊值,所以雜湊值的部分就可以逐公比對。那當然對於這個也算一個新上線的東西,可能我們在座很多的委員,包括我們各單位可能不是很清楚。"},{"start":4479.827,"end":4501.525,"text":"再就是說,如果委員覺得第五條的第二項、第三項,它還是有新增訂的必要的話,我們覺得我們也尊重。所以是可以了。所以你們文字是同意布版嗎?我們就同意。同意布版嗎?好。"},{"start":4505.99,"end":4525.856,"text":"就再加幾個字就是原來的我這邊建議在性剝削就是在第二項這邊未辦理本法第二條例項第三款性剝削之被害人身份識別頓號然後犯罪偵查再來後邊這個資料庫你在這邊資料庫裡邊"},{"start":4530.757,"end":4542.655,"text":"逗號並利用該資料及筆對潛在被害人以上來,警政署表示以前"},{"start":4544.009,"end":4570.524,"text":"檢驗室表示意見,就是針對這個原條文通過的,我們覺得在現有制度,雖然有不同樣的機關在運作,也可以列入到指定的機關,剛委員已經有陳述過了,所以我們覺得這可以納入。另外,新增的辨識是所有機關都可以辨識,不是只有警察,所以把它列入專責到警察的話,我覺得不必要。"},{"start":4571.284,"end":4581.176,"text":"這本來就應該大家都可以做不是只有警察做所以我們覺得說那另外而增添的一些文字是不必要的以上說明"},{"start":4581.874,"end":4603.574,"text":"好,謝謝警政署。好,那我就交各位委員意見。那個,第一個是那個,剛剛,醫師同仁有提醒,他說未辦理本法,應該是不是改成本條例?就因為這是條例嘛,所以這邊先做修正。那另外一個就是,現在就是兩個案子,一個就是完全按照"},{"start":4605.496,"end":4625.222,"text":"衛福部的這個版本就修正通過那另外一個是林玉琴委員她有提出文字修正我們是不是就這兩個來表示意見好不好那警政署是建議不用再爭你們是同意衛福部的版本嗎就按衛福部的版本通過那是不是委員們"},{"start":4626.162,"end":4654.882,"text":"再表示意見,如果大家有共識,我想我們就是就可以通過,好不好?剛剛沈委員好像是尊重衛福部的版本嗎?對,我只是講說,如果說這邊如果還有爭議的話,因為月請委員最早是辨識嘛,那如果說,譬如說假設剛剛有講到辨識不容易做或自愛難行,那如果說要協調的話,是不是改成譬如說是可供辨識的數位監視資料庫,那這樣的話,你們在技術的發展上面做得越好,那這條就越能做嘛。"},{"start":4655.402,"end":4683.563,"text":"但是可供辨識這件事情並不會讓一開始造成摯愛難行所以我說如果要折衷的話看要怎麼做好來林委員還有洪孟楷委員期待事實上因為我覺得他工作不是只有犯罪偵查因為有時候第一時間還沒有辦法偵查犯罪可是這資料庫要存下來是未來有一個我覺得很重要就比對潛在的被害人"},{"start":4684.283,"end":4702.511,"text":"這是過去在處理所謂我說剛剛講臺北市N號房的那種狀況裏面後來還去核對到黃子佼案的那個7個未成年受害人所以我才會認為說這個工作把它列下去我不知道說到底對警政署到底有什麼樣的一個困難就是加這幾個字以上"},{"start":4703.696,"end":4704.197,"text":"洪孟楷委員"},{"start":4722.772,"end":4746.855,"text":"衛福部提出的這個版本裡面其實我發覺跟林玥琴委員有一個很大的一個差別在於是第二項性影像資料庫的管理、儲存、運用、使用辦法林玥琴委員版本是希望主管機關跟內政部來定制但是在我們這個衛福部提出來是由中央警政主管機關定制等於是直接丟給中央主管機關所以其實如果說真的要有這種"},{"start":4748.356,"end":4774.83,"text":"譬如說對未來犯罪的一個預防的程度的話其實如果以部的版就是衛福部提出來這版本但是前項資料庫內容儲存管理及使用辦法可由衛福部跟警政主管機關來定制讓衛福部在這個上面也有加入角色那也才不會說剛剛突然間我們聽到說這個警政署相關單位講說4月1號已經有這個資料庫了結果其他部會大家都不清楚"},{"start":4776.004,"end":4805.127,"text":"我覺得這樣子是不是會比較嚴謹那也可以符合我們現在各委員都期待的一個立法的一個需求因為現在看起來當然布的版本也許他的條文以及用字會是相對比較精準那只是說在這個資料庫到底儲存管理使用辦法是未來要怎麼樣去使用而且這個使用一定是去標籤化或甚至是說不是一個真實的一個影像來去使用"},{"start":4805.928,"end":4828.084,"text":"那這樣的一定會有相關的一些這個科技的技術所以我才在講說不是說只是警政主管機關自己去處理這樣的東西而是加入衛福部因為衛福部還是這一部法律的一個主管機關嘛以上做這樣的一個建議看大家是不是如果說可以的話是不是能夠用這樣的一個方向那我們就可以第五條再繼續往下走好不好"},{"start":4829.534,"end":4849.749,"text":"好,那這個修法的部分那個法務部那個翁參事這邊法務部有沒有什麼意見就是說要採取什麼樣的版本什麼樣的文字法務部是提供一下意見委員好,我們原則上我們是尊重衛福部所建立的這個版本我們認為是可行好,所以你們也同意衛福部的版本嗎好,那"},{"start":4852.931,"end":4871.191,"text":"還有不同意見嗎?來,范委員我是覺得剛剛那個洪孟楷委員跟沈博洋委員有一個稍微能夠綜合越情委員的版本的文字那部分就是說如果衛福部不反對警政體系也不反對的話其實納入其實讓他空間稍微大一點不知道是不是有可能"},{"start":4876.113,"end":4884.324,"text":"如果不要寫的話,那我大概就是用附帶的決議,否則就是要請你們文字上怎麼去表示我要的東西是不是可以放進去?"},{"start":4886.741,"end":4905.721,"text":"好,那這樣好不好,有沒有可能是,如果林委員也不堅持一定要放入可以用附帶決議的話,那是不是,我建議就是用衛福部的版本,然後加附帶決議通過好不好,因為法務部也贊成衛福部的版本嘛,這個是修法體力的問題。"},{"start":4908.001,"end":4934.369,"text":"警政署也同意,衛福部部職也提這個版本,主管局都同意。那委員對這個版本其實意見也不大,一開始大家很反彈是說要刪,那現在如果是維持這個版本大家可接受,那林委員也可以接受用附帶決議再來表明,好不好?那附帶決議就林委員再提,好不好?那如果這樣子的話,那我們就是修正兩個字,就是本法改成那個條例,對。"},{"start":4936.758,"end":4943.652,"text":"然後按衛福部修正過後的這個版本通過然後再請林月琴委員再提附帶決議好謝謝大家來接下來第八條"},{"start":4948.243,"end":4972.245,"text":"第八條第一項將24小時限制瀏覽,然後把24小時直接載明。那在第四項現影像處理中心得知之後要通知網路業者、警察機關跟中央主管機關。那第五項、第六項、第七項都是在中央主管機關收到現影像處理中心的通知之後要做的工作,包括"},{"start":4972.825,"end":4990.967,"text":"要這個載明相關事項以及做行政處分。行政處分要記載的事項都在這個第七項的內容裡頭所說明。以上。好,那就叫各位委員針對衛福部提出來的版本還有沒有不同意見。好,來,范雲委員。"},{"start":4992.58,"end":5007.208,"text":"這個第八條他是有幾個部分一個就是修正保存犯罪網頁到一年另外還有就是網路業者應該要設置被害人身屬管道還有一個是國際形式的司法互助那上次我們卡的部分是我希望"},{"start":5007.628,"end":5008.929,"text":"等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等"},{"start":5024.005,"end":5040.37,"text":"反而跑到別的管道去了沒有辦法最快來性影像處理中心我們上次卡在這裡所以保留後來也謝謝衛福部這邊有很積極的溝通有跟婦女團體、辦公室也了解到後來大家覺得這個部分的確是"},{"start":5044.432,"end":5054.067,"text":"就更有效率的話,那我們就以衛福部這個版本為主,所以我就不保留了,那看其他我也還沒意見好不好,就用衛福部的版本。好,謝謝。"},{"start":5057.624,"end":5082.504,"text":"陳秦輝委員上次還有討論到底是保留180天或者是一年我是主張保留一年而且只是保留犯罪的網頁資料還有嫌疑人的資料還有嫌疑人使用網路的記錄當天警政委員賈樂吉他是呼應他覺得延長的話對於後續很多案件都是一定有幫助的"},{"start":5084.725,"end":5107.674,"text":"當時衛福部是說因為站在業者的角度所以他們是沒有辦法保留一年可是如果去跟業者溝通我們只留並不是留他當時是說留全部的資料他們的資料庫會不夠可是我們只留犯罪的網頁資料、嫌疑人資料、嫌疑人使用網路記錄我覺得這樣子應該是夠的我們要站在被害人的角度因為其他國家都做得到啊好那這部分是衛福部可以說明一下"},{"start":5113.419,"end":5127.645,"text":"一百八十天早在一、二年以前是九十天那在一、二年修的時候也是跟相關的部會還有網路業者做了很多的共識那達成一百八十天這樣的一個"},{"start":5129.426,"end":5131.648,"text":"等19人等19人、委員蔡易餘等19人、委員"},{"start":5150.233,"end":5170.133,"text":"范委員我剛剛漏講一個就是我之前的版本還有一個就是如果知道有犯罪嫌疑情勢的話應於24小時內先行限制瀏覽或移除那因為本來其實衛福部是放在執法當中但我希望放在母法裡面上次衛福部好像沒有同意"},{"start":5170.393,"end":5185.683,"text":"但是這一次衛福部的版本已經有這個24小時了那我想要表達肯定我想這樣非常好因為這個時效寫在母法裡面的話那能夠更有效力也讓被害者知道他相關的權益所以針對這點我要表達肯定好那針對保存的天數警政署要表示意見嗎民事尊重衛福部版"},{"start":5200.222,"end":5207.739,"text":"你們是尊重衛福部本那請問各位委員針對第八條還有沒有其他意見"},{"start":5212.244,"end":5238.979,"text":"好 如果沒有其他意見那是保存天數的部分剛剛衛福部有說明就是說還涉及到還要再進一步去跟相關的業者再溝通討論那目前180天是有共識的是可執行的是不是我們先開始好 那希望衛福部之後看可不可以跟業者溝通我們就只保留犯罪相關的就好因為之前業者說做不到是因為他們必須保留全部的網路紀錄對嗎 對吧"},{"start":5243.4,"end":5261.915,"text":"就是現行文字上面的這些內容。好,那我們今天就是先通過第八條,先180天,但是剛剛陳菁媛委員提醒的,如果其他國家其實比我們做得更好,一年都不是問題的話,那這是衛福部的功課好不好,持續再去溝通。"},{"start":5263.39,"end":5272.982,"text":"好,那陳委員這樣可以嗎?先通過第八條?好,可以可以好,那謝謝各位委員,那我們第八條就按衛福部建議修正的條文通過"},{"start":5274.386,"end":5298.112,"text":"那接下來呢從第32條開始一直到第41條之一這一些其實都是跟司法機關有關都是加重刑者的條文那但是在委員會討論的時候司法機關其實都沒有同意那今天書面資料有一個是刑法"},{"start":5299.525,"end":5318.932,"text":"刑法級距的配置表,這應該是司法機關提供的,那法務部,好啦,謝謝法務部,那是不是這個部分請法務部一併說明好不好,就是因為在委員會好像所有委員要加重的,大家其實都是不贊成的,所以都是保留,那今天有提供這一個"},{"start":5320.493,"end":5336.926,"text":"刑法的那個集聚配置表那是不是就是法務部王參事跟大家說明一下好不好是謝謝昭偉跟各位委員那本部在應該是上個禮拜就把這個現行刑法刑法集聚配置表"},{"start":5337.486,"end":5354.45,"text":"有呃有送交到委員會每一個委員的手上吼那呃今天我們就這個呃有關刑罰級距呃我們該怎麼定這個法定刑度我們保護部的考量跟大家做一個報告說明吼那我們可以分這個呃實體面的"},{"start":5356.411,"end":5374.677,"text":"法應橫憑及罪責相當這兩大塊先跟大家說明,就是說我們現行的刑事處罰的法制根本大法,大家都知道是刑法。那刑法透過各個罪的處罰的規定,皆是保護法役,有國家法役、社會法役跟個人法役。個人法役我們包含生命、身體、自由財產這四大類。"},{"start":5376.838,"end":5404.042,"text":"刑法所規定的即刑就是死刑跟無期徒刑那請各位參考我們給各位的這個刑法集據配置表大家可以看到我們刑法規定死刑無期徒刑跟個人法益相關的罪名只有四個就是強制性交故殺被害人罪還有強盜故意殺人罪海盜故意殺人罪還有擄人勒贖故意殺人罪我們都有用紅筆給大家看"},{"start":5405.083,"end":5427.726,"text":"那所以刑法是以這個即刑的部分為上限在依序就各個法役還有行為的手段來排序各罪的法定刑度其他的刑事處罰規定也是以刑法為比較基礎那以各該保護的法役還有行為手段來排序各個罪的法定刑度所以我們所有的法"},{"start":5428.166,"end":5429.027,"text":"等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等"},{"start":5445.476,"end":5472.474,"text":"四大類型,一個就是兒少性交易,還有第二個就是工人關攬兒少性交貨猥褻,還有一個就是兒少性因圖畫物品的製造跟流傳散佈,那第四個就是兒少性色情的陪侍。那跟刑法相關的罪章,大家可以看到我們就是跟防害性自主罪章,還有防害風化罪章,防害性隱私及不實性影像的罪章,還有防害秘密罪章,"},{"start":5473.534,"end":5490.492,"text":"四個罪章是相關的那另外如果是行為人故意對兒少犯刑法各章的罪的時候我們另外是以兒少福利與權益保障法的112條第一項規定是加重期刑到二分之一所以我們在法議橫評"},{"start":5491.913,"end":5520.251,"text":"還有罪責相當的每一個法條來比較來看的時候,其實去年一、就是去年二月在修法的時候,我們為了配合刑法徵定性影像的定義,還有防害性隱私跟不實性影像的罪章,再參照我們剛剛跟大家提到的我們每個刑法相關罪章保護法益行為手段,刑度的設計跟兒權法一一二條第一項的規定,我們是有全面的盤整過這個兒少性剝削防制條例的相關罪責的刑度啦。"},{"start":5522.518,"end":5536.566,"text":"為了落實我們這個立法目的,我們原來其實無正當理由持有兒少性影像,還有無正當理由關攬兒少性影像及猥褻行為本來是行政罰而已,後來去年是改為刑罰,那這個部分的修法"},{"start":5539.568,"end":5562.539,"text":"去年那時候也是行政院有多次召開跨部會的研商會議那各部會也有共識才通過院會提到立法院經過委員審議的那當然這個原來我們是屬於行政裁罰的無正當理由持有兒少性影像跟無正當理由關懶兒少性影像的刑罰化那時候定的刑度現在看起來似乎有比較低"},{"start":5563.519,"end":5581.633,"text":"那可是當時是考量整體的社會風氣還有大家的對這個這種形態的法治意識那也有參著各國的立法例那我們那時候是參採法定刑度比較低的日本立法例那現在再來看我們認為是不是還可以再商議當然這點我們也認為應該是可以有在研求的地方"},{"start":5588.438,"end":5610.966,"text":"所以我們認為去年在修的時候其實每個刑度已經提的基本上已經是比他的法定刑度已經比刑法高了那我相信很多委員提的版本很多都希望能夠再提高再提高把罪輕本行再提高但是這個部分呢剛剛我們已經跟各位報告這個刑度設計有沒有符合法議橫評跟罪責相當性"},{"start":5613.587,"end":5640.685,"text":"跟各位報告因為刑事訴訟法我們知道當然除了是要對犯罪人追究刑責施以刑罰之外我們這個刑事訴訟法最主要的目的還有還有其他的部分一個就是要讓司法資源有效的運用那還有填補被害人的損害另外就是有利被告跟犯罪嫌疑人的再社會化還有犯罪的特別預防這些目的所以緩起訴處分這個制度是非常是非常需要"},{"start":5641.305,"end":5650.688,"text":"等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19"},{"start":5669.253,"end":5694.892,"text":"所以像黃子驕這件案件雖然他緩起訴引起輿論有一些反彈但是這個部分我們還是有檢察官還是可以依職權送在意那後來還是有再發揮再重新再處理所以對於檢察官所為的緩起訴處分刑事訴論法其實是有相當的審核救濟機制來確保緩起訴處分的妥適性所以如果說委員們的提案提高是為了要"},{"start":5695.712,"end":5697.853,"text":"蔡易餘等17人、委員蔡易餘等17人、委員"},{"start":5720.639,"end":5742.647,"text":"賈官沒有緩起訴處分的權限會有什麼樣的狀況?上次也有一些案例司法院廳長也有跟大家說到一些案例比如說現在臺中有一個高職的學生他們就是在住宿然後在洗澡的時候彼此拍攝那其實拍攝以後就好玩他並不一定是有性剝削的"},{"start":5743.267,"end":5744.709,"text":"等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等"},{"start":5763.317,"end":5790.352,"text":"就是讓他們就是悔改自新那對於年輕人來講這個是這個是不是合宜的請可能委員們可以再多思考一下那另外實務上我們也有青少年因為觸犯而少性剝削條例的罪名移送法院地檢署的情形比如說也有桃家少女他們在桃家期間結交男朋友那男女交往期間分別透過男生去打零工女生就從"},{"start":5791.432,"end":5813.124,"text":"從事性交易謀生,逃家少女經過尋獲後,這個男友就有可能因為涉嫌兒童性剝削條例遭到移送。那像這樣的狀況,跟我們想要處罰很重刑的兒童性剝削的那種很可惡的犯行,是不是要等同一概的這樣子去處理?"},{"start":5814.765,"end":5842.724,"text":"如果說用重刑來排除假官就這種案件的緩起處分權限到底妥不妥當那也請委員們再思考一下那對於那種非常可惡的部分呢我跟各位報告就是說我們目前的偵查實務呢比如說台版N號房的情節重大的這種犯罪我們檢警都是在積極查緝這個犯罪集團的所有的共犯也會清查所有相關被害人查明他們的相關犯罪所得"},{"start":5844.045,"end":5852.712,"text":"他們的犯罪所查獲的行為罪數是可以加的所以一次犯一次其實那個罪名不會說應該是每一個行為都可以訴罪併罰是可以加的所以我們不見得是一種行為的刑度就拉得很高他們每一個罪數是可以累計加到我們就曾經也有"},{"start":5865.001,"end":5882.548,"text":"臺中的案件他們累計的刑度是可以有30年的並不是說他們這樣就會被輕判而且犯罪所得提高法院宣判的刑度跟沒收的金額也是可以看他們的這個行為樣態來累加那另外"},{"start":5884.323,"end":5907.159,"text":"我們在去年修法的時候其實已經把為無正當理由持有兒少性影像跟關懶兒少性影像刑罰化那這個部分我們是贊同我們這次衛福部提出的版本把它提高刑度這個部分法務部尊重衛福部提出的版本那其他的部分之前已經"},{"start":5908.26,"end":5925.558,"text":"通盤考量到的,我們就建議維持原來的這個刑度。那有關無正當理由持有跟無正當理由關懶的這個部分,我們建議就按照衛福部這次提高刑度的版本來做修正。以上。"},{"start":5927.54,"end":5955.063,"text":"好,謝謝法務部的說明那請問司法院有沒有補充說明是的,就是召委還有各位委員大家午安那剛剛法務部參事的那個說明我們大概是都這個原因也都贊成那對衛福部呢後來有稍微調高的這個行路我們也都沒有意見那我再補充一下就是我們稍後呢也會這個提供一份大概是從另外一個角度"},{"start":5955.503,"end":5957.725,"text":"本來就有一些是關於兒少保護的法則也就是說其實在"},{"start":5975.498,"end":5994.335,"text":"不同的法律裡頭對於這個保護兒少那應該是一個國家他一個社會的一個任務那刑法體系不論是普通刑法或者是特別刑法都不會因為這樣的去減少對兒少保護避免他受到這樣的一個性的剝削或者是其他的這樣兒權法一二條"},{"start":5996.056,"end":6013.654,"text":"的一個整個國家社會的一個加重的一個刑責。比如《兒權法》六書一二條它就是加重刑分二分之一。但這是一個分責的加重。那這份其實代表整個國家社會對兒少的保護。這個部分的一個不可一個懈怠的一個任務。現在我們已經把《兒權公約》已經"},{"start":6015.916,"end":6035.686,"text":"內閣法化多年。所以對於我們去依照這次的兒少性剝削防制條例31到38條的處罰,我們其實是對比整個的刑法的一個體系來看,似乎並沒有法定刑過輕的情形。也就是說,誠如剛剛參事說的,去年其實才修正,"},{"start":6036.266,"end":6036.847,"text":"等19人、委員蔡易餘等19人、委員"},{"start":6053.268,"end":6054.649,"text":"等19人、委員蔡易餘等19人、委員"},{"start":6074.482,"end":6090.467,"text":"等18人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19"},{"start":6103.911,"end":6126.266,"text":"然後一直到我們的這個刑法的一個就是231條比如說意圖使男女與他人為性交或猥褻行為而引誘容留或媒介以盈利罪那這個是五年以下那對比我們現在的這個條文的這樣一個我們其實是這個七年以下所以其實這個部分我們現行的條文其實並沒有過境的情形"},{"start":6126.826,"end":6149.778,"text":"那其他的個條我們大家都希望可以參考我們今天提出來的一個就是個條的一個對比性的一個意見也就整體來說目前的兒少性剝削其實在保護兒少不受性剝削的這樣一個性剝削防制的一個立法的特別的刑法當中其實並沒有就是說就是比較輕的這樣情形那我們還是必須要強調說即使是特別刑罰"},{"start":6152.679,"end":6174.488,"text":"那對於刑法目前的普通刑法裡面的刑法體系來看可能還是要去回到整個罪行相當這樣的一個可能性的一個思考那以上作為以上的補充謝謝好謝謝法務部跟司法院的一個說明那我們現在就來進行主條的討論好來我們第32條"},{"start":6182.04,"end":6199.516,"text":"剛剛司法院法務部的意見是不予爭定,對不對?好,維持原條文,那個請問各位有沒有意見?沒有意見齁?好,那我們就維持原條文,第33條也是維持原條文,各位有沒有意見?好,沒有意見,來,第36條"},{"start":6210.901,"end":6211.761,"text":"三十五條維持原條文"},{"start":6228.411,"end":6243.243,"text":"三十六條在第一項、第二項、第三項以及第七項增加重置這個文字另外在第一項的罰金部分定這個樓地板十萬元以上以上好來那個洪孟楷委員請"},{"start":6248.315,"end":6262.027,"text":"在36條的這個部分我想這個佈板的這個狀況就包括說重置跟10萬元以上這個本席是尊重但是我看到幾個委員提案的版本我覺得有兩項是大家可以去做一個討論的一個是"},{"start":6264.068,"end":6278.518,"text":"在第25頁,林思明委員跟我本席,然後還有幾個委員的共同提案版本。25頁的這個版本裡面有提到說,如果說是以這個拍攝的圖畫影像去恐嚇別人,"},{"start":6279.178,"end":6280.52,"text":"等19人、委員洪孟楷等19人、委員"},{"start":6297.657,"end":6298.298,"text":"等19人、委員洪孟楷等19人、委員"},{"start":6313.291,"end":6327.693,"text":"姓影像被掌握之後那反而一步一步的就被人家做這個恐嚇威脅所以如果說有這樣的一個樣態的話是不是能夠把這個再加入當然有沒有其他的一個這個法條來去做"},{"start":6329.776,"end":6354.073,"text":"這類犯罪行為的管制或規範,稍後請相關司法單位作意見表達。但是我認為是說,如果說在這一條36條裡面,加重刑責,如果說它有不同的樣態,然後去恐嚇別人的話,加重刑責我認為是可以考慮。那另外有包括說也有委員的版本有提到是,是不是應該要輔助相關的那個,"},{"start":6356.519,"end":6357.42,"text":"身心治療或輔導教育"},{"start":6374.27,"end":6387.345,"text":"這題36條在刑罰方面我並沒有意見所以衛福部這個10萬以上這個部分我覺得蠻好的那這一條我們主要就是針對這個兒少性影像部分加了一個重置那重置大家記得我們當時在委員會討論的時候"},{"start":6388.966,"end":6416.017,"text":"衛福部好像有不同的意見那很高興衛福部接受大家的意見因為重製性影像是性剝削裡面非常重要的一環那重製依照就是經濟部智慧財產局的規定下載網路影片存下來都是重製那這邊我想提醒大家的是我們去年性私密影像修法的時候我們是增訂刑法第319-3條未經他人同意逗號無故重製"},{"start":6417.477,"end":6435.084,"text":"當時我們斟酌的是用無故把無故加進去就是如果完全不知道不小心下載的就不在這裡面或者是說他因為研究目的譬如說我們那個信箱對不對資料庫而下載的就不是這個就是說就排除了這個因為他是有故有正當理由"},{"start":6435.744,"end":6456.471,"text":"但是我想兒少我們可能會更嚴謹一點所以這邊是用重置我也OK那我只是提醒大家就是說我們就是要想清楚要不要放這個無故還是就直接放重置那因為我有條文但是我是放在38條但是在這邊跟36條衛福部這個精神是一致的以上說明好 謝謝 來張委員"},{"start":6459.077,"end":6473.957,"text":"我主要也是想要確認一下這個重置的意思是什麼因為上次魏博士認為下載就是一個重置但是因為上次有一個案例是說因為有些小朋友他們可能只是不小心他就把他整個傳到整個群組裡可是班上在這個群組裡的人"},{"start":6475.31,"end":6492.504,"text":"在他收到那時候,似乎在上次的討論,他也算是重製了。對,所以就變成是說,可能就會有一些青少年在這種狀況之下,他可能根本沒有意思要去做這件事情,可是他就在這一條,他就犯了這一條法。所以我想再確認一下這個重製的定義到底是什麼。好,那那個法務部跟司法院有沒有意見?針對這一條,36條,重製這個部分。"},{"start":6505.669,"end":6511.916,"text":"來,司法院。我們對那個未卜的新增的這個部分沒有意見。沒有意見。好,法務部呢?"},{"start":6517.484,"end":6533.2,"text":"張委還有各位委員大家好我想不好意思因為這個部分其實我在衛福部的會議上因為也有表達同樣的意見所以我想我就因為已經有委員問了我就坦白說好了因為當時他們要訂這個重置這兩個字的時候我們是說這個可能會有隱憂"},{"start":6537.624,"end":6557.973,"text":"就是剛剛張雅琳委員她所提的這個部分確實這是一個問題那我稍微給我一點點時間說明一下當時刑法319之三定重置的那個來由就是因為刑法319之三它定一個重置當時是因為當然這是一個立法政策這是行政院的政策"},{"start":6558.353,"end":6558.713,"text":"等19人、委員洪孟楷等19人、委員"},{"start":6576.534,"end":6601.314,"text":"當時的立法,大家的考論是說,就是覺得說,不管持有也好、重置也好,如果規範下去真的是太廣泛了。但是行政院當時在一些團體的,不要說壓力,就是push之下,讓人覺得說我們要重視這個議題。所以後來在幾經考量之下之後呢,那就是因為持有跟重置這兩個動作,其實在法律上它還是有一點點差別。"},{"start":6603.215,"end":6619.529,"text":"雖然在我們的數位的這個我們現在數位科技底下持有跟重置幾乎等同但是在實體的世界所謂的持有就像我現在這樣子是持有但是我製造很多個才叫做重置所以那我們在法律上我們還是要考慮到就是實體跟數位世界的一個運用的狀況"},{"start":6623.172,"end":6639.324,"text":"那當時我們在協調過程當中,後來行政院是認為說重置的可責性還是比持有高一點,所以才會在319-3定了重置。那前提是在於說,因為整個刑法並沒有去處罰持有這個動作,只有處罰重置。"},{"start":6641.645,"end":6667.762,"text":"那現在我們回過來看我們兒少性剝削來講的話當時沒有說請衛福部要訂重置的原因是因為他有持有他就處罰持有了然後也把持有因為單純持有這個東西我就訂我們是參考外國立法例當時衛福部參考由日本、德國、南韓所以他們先裁就是日本的立法例一年以下這樣那確實現在因為這一次整個是因為"},{"start":6669.043,"end":6689.449,"text":"黃子佳事件引發,然後很多人去重視這個問題。所以就一直比較刑法,為什麼刑法有重置,可是兒童性剝削卻沒有重置,然後這邊要歸重置。但是確實剛剛張嘉玲委員所提的這個問題,就是因為現在數位科技底下,我今天我在"},{"start":6690.421,"end":6704.056,"text":"典持有的那一剎那其實就是重置就是下載的那個當下它就是重置所以剛剛其實在會前的時候也有有委員辦公室的助理跑來找我那我說這個"},{"start":6706.138,"end":6733.477,"text":"我只能說從我們司法實務上我只能說這次有這個隱憂在這個未來不無可能我只能說不無可能不可能持有都會被從事吸收我是說不無可能因為這個還是要看法院法官那邊的整個法院的見解他們怎麼說明他們要怎麼去切割但是我只能說就現在來看的話不無可能未來這個持有就會被尤其是在數位科技的這種狀況他可能會被從事吸收"},{"start":6735.898,"end":6757.689,"text":"所以我只能說這次就我們就是一直以來過去的討論,然後標示一點意見以上。所以我問一下,我要問你的意思是說,如果我們這樣子定的話,那剛剛提到的就是孩子之間就是一個訊息傳出去了,我可能不想接受,但已經到了我的手機,我算從事嗎?"},{"start":6759.898,"end":6775.268,"text":"因為我們現在手機像LINE的影片啊我們看影片在點開的那一剎那其實它就是下載到我的手機裡面這樣就叫重置這就叫重置這好嚴格喔因為它是被動接收它不知道是什麼它點開它就有罪了所以這就是"},{"start":6777.131,"end":6804.498,"text":"我只能說這個是從我們一直以來就是像以前我們以前很常有一種案例就是所謂BT使用BT去例如說因為以前有一段時間大家很喜歡在網路上去找那種影片來看然後用使用一個軟體叫做BT或羅子欸那叫什麼忘記了羅子就是這種軟體呢它為了加快加快這個下載的速度所以它同時上傳跟下載"},{"start":6805.618,"end":6821.901,"text":"也就是說他把全世界的人正在下載這一個檔案的人全部集結在一起然後就是大家一直你上傳到你下載到A段你同時把A段傳出去然後別人就可以就是用這種他是技術但他可能不知道那個裡面是什麼對"},{"start":6822.862,"end":6848.648,"text":"但是可是在過去的事故案例 這樣就算了所以很多被告他後來又跟我們抗辯可是因為沒有辦法因為被告也知道這個就是同時上傳下載所以後來像這一類案件在過去有一段時間其實都有相關的相關案件因為那個是在做做全法的案件好那我具體問舊法務部的你們的立法的見解你認為36條要怎麼"},{"start":6850.888,"end":6871.727,"text":"修訂文字比較不會有你剛剛講的這樣的問題。就是說他如果僅止於被動接收,他可能就要入罪。這的確是有點太廣泛了。在實務上我們也不是要追究這些人,是那一些……對啊,你們有沒有比較具體的文字的修正的意見?"},{"start":6878.001,"end":6897.956,"text":"如果說就我自己個人這一邊的意見的話會建議是說因為其實少性剝削就已經有規範持有了那是不是重置就不要規定因為其實它就有製造然後有持有就把這個整個分開那如果持有的話你剛剛講的那一種情況就是說它是被動接收的就不算"},{"start":6898.777,"end":6900.398,"text":"等19人、委員洪孟楷等19人、委員洪孟楷"},{"start":6916.289,"end":6942.346,"text":"我們的法條上36條有重置、39條有持有,那就會同時構成36跟39,然後會依刑法55條的規定,想像進合,從一種處斷,就會處到重置罪。但是如果說我今天我那邊沒有重置了,沒有重置,那在我們的司法實務上,可能這一類的案件我們就會認定說,就是張淳武就是處罰他持有,就是依39條第一項的規定來處罰這個人,這樣子。"},{"start":6948.472,"end":6960.205,"text":"而上這一塊這也是為什麼我們一直就是剛剛我們參事有向各位委員說明解釋就是說因為現在其實像我前陣子也有接到電話就是說有一些"},{"start":6961.586,"end":6984.538,"text":"小孩子、學校學生因為拍攝,就是好玩拍攝照片,然後已經被移送,移送哨院。那我前陣子也聽到那個警察官也有在講說,少年法院還有把這一類案件進來移到地檢署,因為移到地檢署幾乎都可能就是需要我們起訴,所以我們現在這一類案件,我必須老實講說,可能在全國的案件裡面沒有很多,"},{"start":6984.838,"end":7008.871,"text":"但是就是說因為這個對象是學生所以檢察官都會比較就是會覺得自己也是都有小孩啦所以他們都會將心比心所以說才會在這個部分我只能說就是現在目前的實務狀況是這樣然後我們會建議就是說也很感謝剛剛委員都有支持就是說刑度盡量都維持這樣子"},{"start":7009.711,"end":7025.452,"text":"對,那未來到底等案件發生再更多了以後,法院對於重置跟持有這塊的解釋說明會不會再限縮,這個可能就要等到未來,未來的案件,因為我們在過去像著作權法的案件,就有呈現過一個"},{"start":7027.434,"end":7044.531,"text":"一個狀況,就是說法剛開始的時候,就是一直適用這個法條,就發現處罰的範圍非常的大。然後,而且法官他後來開始慢慢線索解釋,線索解釋之後再,可是那個都要過好幾年的時間。對,以上。好,來,洪孟楷委員。"},{"start":7046.519,"end":7064.082,"text":"主席,我具體建議,因為現在是數位時代,所以說剛剛其實我認同這個我們官方代表這邊講的,就是說如果說把這定下去的話,可能會對於這個樣態會太廣泛,而且可能很多人不小心就會犯了罪,甚至現在有很多通訊軟體是它有設定自動下載功能,"},{"start":7064.602,"end":7083.933,"text":"所以我被人家發了訊息來之後我根本還沒有打開但是我已經如果說下載到我的手機相簿裡面那是不是這也已經構成這個犯法那另外我就回歸到立法精神其實我相信各委員大家提出來重置這個事情要把它放進概念是什麼概念是我們不希望有買方市場"},{"start":7085.287,"end":7104.874,"text":"就是大家會講是說這個我們36條是要閒置說不要有去拍攝兒童的這個性影像嘛那為什麼會有人拍攝因為有人要買有人要買所以說才有獲利才有獲利之後造成說賣方有市場所以說賣方會持續的去拍攝想要來獲利但是如果說在第39條現在我們已經把它加入"},{"start":7106.014,"end":7131.747,"text":"無證當理由支持對價持有那等於是說我們對於買方市場是強制的處罰其實就如同這個知名藝人的這個案件他的問題在哪裡他去付費購買兒童性影像下載到他電腦裡面所以我們立法精神應該是要嚇阻這樣的一個行為所以我們絕對不可能同意"},{"start":7132.407,"end":7159.664,"text":"副費的狀態所以我覺得應該是說是不是如果說我們的立法精神大家委員可以同意的話應該我們回歸到39條我們支持39條現在布的版本也是有無正當理由支持對價持有那其實就是說禁止購買的行為那36條可能就把疑慮的地方給這個不加入但是我再拜託主席等一下可以考慮一下是說如果說是持有但是拿人家的性影像去威脅"},{"start":7160.805,"end":7186.589,"text":"的這樣的一個樣態的行為,是不是能夠把他給放進去加重處分?以上,謝謝。好,謝謝。來陳檢科委員。對,我認同黃孟楷委員的意見,因為最近有許許多多新的犯罪型態,是用這樣子的方式去威脅未成年,可以繼續在不斷地拍攝影片給他。對,所以反而這個是可以,如果我們可以放進去,可以趕快阻止很多快發生的犯罪。好,來范雲委員。"},{"start":7191.375,"end":7216.21,"text":"我剛剛講的是說因為性私密影像當時用無故重置就可以避免那種不小心下載的或誤觸的那只是這邊就是說大家覺得重置會有這個問題然後並沒有要接受無故重置的話可是我剛剛在想刪掉會有什麼問題因為重置性影像其實跟擁有又不大一樣因為我有可能就是我下載之後那可是後來我刪除了"},{"start":7216.77,"end":7232.306,"text":"可是我們的技術其實是有可能知道他去色情網站下載兒少的性影像之後刪除嘛因為他已經刪除了他就沒有持有了你就沒辦法用持有這個罪來處理他所以我在想說如果刪掉這個東西的話又有這個問題所以提出來問大家這樣"},{"start":7234.175,"end":7254.145,"text":"好,那個衛福部是不是回應一下剛剛大家這些意見我先就剛才這個洪委員建議的對那個威脅乙性像作為威脅這個部分在現行的刑法的305條以及兒權法的1、2條都有相關規定那是不是還要另外"},{"start":7254.785,"end":7282.545,"text":"在本條例領後去增加,我們基本上是想聽聽司法院跟法務部的意見。第二個部分就是說,如果我們在36條把重置,其實重置就下載了,把重置拿掉,那是不是就回到39條是無故持有,那就跟回到現行的狀況,是不是沒有辦法回應這一次因為這個"},{"start":7284.467,"end":7289.276,"text":"黃姓藝人事件之後的各界聲音,也請委員斟酌。"},{"start":7298.211,"end":7317.846,"text":"針對那個脅迫的部分,我是覺得其實大家修法是想要針對比較惡意的,一定就是要加重處罰。所以剛剛洪孟楷委員特別提到那個脅迫,不然還有陳勤恩委員提到的,就是說你這麼惡意,還用這個去威脅的,我們是不是應該要在36條裡面反而應該要特別去強調?那這個法務部有沒有什麼意見?跟司法院?就是把它加進來有沒有什麼體力上不妥?"},{"start":7331.966,"end":7345.159,"text":"其實相同的這個問題在去年112年2月修法的時候就討論過了那有一些婦女團體他們也一直在提那我們先就只能說明就是說當時我們部裡面的見解是這樣子就是說"},{"start":7346.3,"end":7362.549,"text":"兇嚇罪在刑法305條就已經有規定了。那他恐嚇的惡害同質包含我威脅生命法益、身體法益、財產、自由這一些我們都包含在裡面。那當時我們的認為是,這個就是我們刑法的整個體力來講的話,今天"},{"start":7365.575,"end":7385.261,"text":"有人拿刀對著被害人說我要殺你喔!你如果不怎樣我就要殺你喔!就這樣子的案例呢其實在整個現行的法制底下並沒有加重的規定那所以站在我們的立場就像剛剛我們參事有介紹就是說我們刑法體力其實四個"},{"start":7386.241,"end":7402.57,"text":"各人法益裡面生命、身體、財產跟自由那生命法益我今天我想要殺你這樣子的一個動作已經把生命法益拿到最危險的情況之下我們都沒有加重期刑的話那其他的狀況以刑法的體力來講"},{"start":7403.77,"end":7420.775,"text":"是比較沒有什麼特別的理由二來就是說其實剛剛市長也有報告就是說其實在今天如果他的對象就是兒少了那兒少的這個狀況之下的話他305條雖然刑度是兩年以下尤其徒刑但是依照兒權法的"},{"start":7422.395,"end":7445.492,"text":"一、二條第一項的規定的話,它就是加重起,它是從三年起跳而且它那個是法定型直接提高,因為是故意對兒少犯罪那這樣這種狀況是,它的刑度就是要,就是它整個刑度會提高,就變三年以下有期徒刑所以就是說,如果依照我們過去這樣子一貫的見解跟立場來講的話,這個部分可能我們的意見就是還是維持這樣子"},{"start":7447.273,"end":7470.729,"text":"那過去有用過嗎?有用到你們剛剛講的有引用兒圈法加重期刑二分之一嗎?有類似這樣的案例嗎?不好意思,因為我沒有去查過啦,但是只要是,這個這種案例其實在實務上我想應該不會,也不會說完全沒有啦,因為那個,要怎麼說,就是"},{"start":7472.116,"end":7479.523,"text":"等19人、委員羅廷瑋等19人、委員洪孟楷等19人、委員洪孟楷等19人、委員洪孟楷等19人、委員洪孟楷等19人、委員洪孟楷等19人、委員洪孟楷"},{"start":7493.937,"end":7504.994,"text":"那種有點二讀的那種狀況的話,可能都也是會有啦。對,以上。好,謝謝。那個范雲委員再羅廷瑋委員。"},{"start":7506.641,"end":7533.562,"text":"因為剛剛好像是不是法務那邊一直說家無故會有認定的問題可是我們修性私密影像的時候我們刑法319之3條就有無故重置我們當時不是用重置我們是用無故重置所以我就在想說這邊如果用無故重置就可以避免剛剛張亞玲委員跟一些委員擔心的就是兒少那個賴群組內點下去不知道是什麼點下去就下載了"},{"start":7534.383,"end":7562.221,"text":"因為他其實完全並不了解就會排除這種那不知道這個部分將會有什麼問題嗎因為我還是擔心說我們如果拿掉了那他只要去兒少色情網站假如不是付費的那他下載之後看完之後就殺掉了那他就不算持有啦那這種人我們就變成沒有辦法處理了那重置也有包含另外一個就是他把一個影像變成很多份那個也是重置那個還是跟持有不大一樣"},{"start":7564.273,"end":7589.425,"text":"算不算製造?製造是要從零到有那個是製造嗎?可是重製就是弄很多copy這樣子,對啊就是至少依照那個經濟部的那個部分就是說你只要印刷、複印、錄音、錄影等等讓它有直接、間接、永久、暫時之重複製作,就是那個好了,請羅廷瑋委員"},{"start":7593.961,"end":7618.857,"text":"我也是支持洪孟楷委員所說的但我還是要再次提醒我覺得不只是恐嚇他人這樣的案例也有誘騙他人這個誘騙的過程有沒有恐嚇其實我們可以一到上次有提過這個案例警察也是創意私房的會員一手法誘騙三少女拍性相然後再一次的販售招判一年十個月"},{"start":7619.717,"end":7640.655,"text":"我想這個承認警察這個流信警察他因為自己的職權特別拿到了影片然後又再約當事者來到再一次的拍攝然後說要來幫他說釐清真相可是再一次的拍攝的過程到底有沒有恐嚇還是純誘騙我覺得這都應該把它寫在這裡面"},{"start":7645.439,"end":7660.902,"text":"那可是我們的重點第二個就是說你說加重其刑三分之二這件事情不符合比例原則但是我們現在遇到的問題就是這一個流行員警最後被判一年十個月我想雖然"},{"start":7661.883,"end":7689.639,"text":"看到這個案件讓我們就覺得他有加重的必要但是我們也擔心我們就算加重加重再加重現在的法官如果用因為他好像是這一個判例他不是用兒少性剝削來做判罰他是用那個危害隱私權來判罰所以我們也擔心說除了一昧的加重之外如果法官不用我們所編的這個新的法令這也會造成"},{"start":7690.64,"end":7692.945,"text":"等19人、委員蔡易餘等19人、委員蔡易餘等19人、委員"},{"start":7699.096,"end":7720.686,"text":"該加重的要加重那相關的一些法令在進行在進行當中有其他的法令來做一個解釋的時候這部分我們是不是應該想辦法來破解所以我也希望法務部不是只是告訴我們我們現在不符合比例原則而是告訴我們該怎麼防範這個問題然後我們才可以安心來訂定這個法令"},{"start":7725.461,"end":7753.343,"text":"好 謝謝來 司法院這個就是謝謝委員這個就是提到上次有提到的那個案件後來我們有去了解就是說那個案件呢其實檢察官起訴的部分並沒有急於後面他的那個部分的行為而且那時候是舊法舊法的時候其實個資法是5年以下是比較重的所以他在這個起訴的對象就不急於他後面的那個部分的一個行為的部分"},{"start":7753.843,"end":7768.304,"text":"那所以在那個個案裡面他其實就是會有這樣的現象那但是去年修法之後他其實已經加重的罰則了也就是說其實現在的這個情形可能是我們要做一點這樣的說明因為上次委員有有"},{"start":7769.065,"end":7781.495,"text":"提到這個案件我們有去了解整個審判起訴的對象其實是他的犯罪事實的認定是有落差的以上做一點說明那我再說一下剛剛其實朱祖簡他有提到"},{"start":7785.558,"end":7790.521,"text":"三十六條重製和持有的部分。未來舉例來說,我剛跟同仁法官討論時,今天我傳一個訊息給林月琴委員,傳一個照片給她,"},{"start":7804.807,"end":7829.854,"text":"有時候這個照片他不見得是要我傳給他的但是我就傳給他了所以這時候你怎麼認定他有沒有持有的意思或者說他如果下載之後他是不是重製所以這裡其實都會有一個法律的一個事實的一個調查跟認定的評價的這個過程所以其實持有也必須要持有的意思重製也要有重製的意思所以剛珠姐提到說的確在實務上很可能因為數位的發達"},{"start":7831.314,"end":7845.69,"text":"那我們可能常一個動作,他可能甚至於說剛剛那個洪孟楷委員提到說我們有那種自動下載的,他可能就自動重置了。對,所以這裡其實會有一個你在認定事實跟適用法律的時候,尤其是刑法,那一定要回到就是說不能夠就是說讓人民輕易的入罪啦。"},{"start":7849.674,"end":7873.301,"text":"那不過我覺得這時候可能也必須要仰賴就是檢察官的起訴還有他在這個訴追這個刑罰的時候可能也是要注意這個部分問題所以我們第三點我們要強調這次為什麼說要拜託各位委員就是盡可能往前面的教育端走那因為這些孩子其實多數的其實我們在實務上遇到的可能都不是類似這樣創意私房的這些大人的剝削兒少這個性剝削很多其實會中槍的"},{"start":7878.823,"end":7904.485,"text":"其大概都是在成長當中他在社會化的過程的這些兒少那我覺得這一點呢跟我們會希望就是大院呢可以就是特別去注意這個部分那我們也會希望就是說這個整個刑罰的重刑應該回到個案如果應該是應該嚴格的給予重刑的應該其實是在個人的認定上其實應該就要給予嚴格的處罰但是希望能夠不要再這個就是讓"},{"start":7905.626,"end":7905.886,"text":"等19人、委員蔡易餘等19人、委員"},{"start":7924.896,"end":7946.044,"text":"一直持續在這個就是累積增加當中那如果說跟校園跟家長可能了解一下大家其實都非常的有心不過法律其實是一視同仁的一旦都重型化了我想這個影響所及可能也會造成其他的一個社會問題以上補充謝謝那請教一下司法院正在36條的這個"},{"start":7949.085,"end":7968.954,"text":"修法的這些文字包括寫重製還是剛剛范委員說無故重製或是拿掉你們的意見是怎麼樣?剛剛有提到說我們對於未卜的這個版本我們沒有意見的原因是本來就是到底是不是重製會吸收持有要從個案上面去認定因為譬如說使用數位"},{"start":7970.895,"end":7971.055,"text":"李慧琼委員"},{"start":7992.705,"end":8018.684,"text":"所以其實有時候會變成就是到底有沒有持有其實很難去認定的那我覺得其實法律的設計其實不應該是這樣所以我覺得其實不論是法條是持有或者是說法條是重置它其實都還是要看個案的事實去做一個認定啦只是說我們怎麼樣的去讓這次的修法其實能夠讓整個國家更重視這個兒少他不被性剝削那我覺得可能才是重點"},{"start":8019.304,"end":8048.371,"text":"所以如果說我們現在其實在39條已經有一個就是對家性的這個無辜的持有的入罪那跟這個重置它在法律的行為樣態它本來就是兩個行為樣態可是它有時候會二合一要看整個具體的行為還有它使用的這樣一個就是它的一個載具它的一個功能那所以我覺得我們對衛福這個法文我們基本上我們司法院這邊是沒有意見但就是回到個案case by case去認定以上"},{"start":8050.544,"end":8050.93,"text":"謝謝,來,另外一位"},{"start":8054.645,"end":8080.195,"text":"所以有沒有可能齁,剛剛如果以廷長這邊講的這樣的話,那是不是再36條,因為剛剛趙琳委員有擔心說你重置有時候事實上是不小心去按到我下載了,所以如果按照范雲委員剛剛提的加一個無故重置,是不是這一個就按照院的裏邊可能再加一個無故重置,那這一條就可以"},{"start":8080.895,"end":8081.576,"text":"我們就可以結束討論了"},{"start":8100.879,"end":8126.372,"text":"此有也是有無故的那個狀態裡邊那是不是兩邊都可以比較擅除說剛剛擔心的有時候孩子真的不小心他嚇得下來以上好 請問下面委員要表示意見如果沒有的話 那個衛博部是不是你們的意見呢是 那我們就尊重委員大家討論的意見加無故就是比照成人的那個部分"},{"start":8128.544,"end":8154.942,"text":"好,那脅迫的部分還是沒有辦法加上去。好,那羅廷瑋委員還沒意見,這部分,"},{"start":8160.667,"end":8184.919,"text":"不符合社會取代不符合社會取代來陳君彥委員因為剛剛他們是說大人恐嚇小孩恐嚇未成年這個不常見但其實在最近的新聞都越來越常見還有韓國的又爆出一個類似N號房的事件在這幾天所以我想這是未來的刑刑犯罪的形態之一只會越來越多而已"},{"start":8189.775,"end":8216.291,"text":"好,那我們是不是衛福部還有空間可以演繹一下怎麼把委員的意見放進去因為委員擔心是說這個法條適用他們法官也好或檢察官也好有沒有靈活嘛所以我們在第五條有增加最後一項就是這些辦案的這個司法人員包括警察包括檢察官跟法官要上這個課程那上這個課程就要提醒"},{"start":8218.072,"end":8245.765,"text":"上如何防制兒少性剝削以及性剝削法律適用包括恐嚇除了刑法的305之外還有一個兒少福利的1、2條是可以加重其刑的這部分加強那我想應該可以回應委員擔心這一類案件的一個氾濫那我覺得也可以回應民意好所以是在第五條前面剛剛通過第五條裡面就是有強化那個專業訓練的部分嗎"},{"start":8249.178,"end":8270.933,"text":"好那如果我有沒有其他意見的話我們是不是36條還是可以按照衛福部的修正條文然後重置前面加上無故兩個字大家可以同意嗎如果沒有意見的話那我們就修正通過好不好好那修正通過好來接下來是第36條"},{"start":8279.71,"end":8306.549,"text":"三十八三十八條維持原條文,大家有沒有意見?好,如果沒有意見的話,那我們就維持,第三十八條維持原條文,第三十九條三十九條,增加第一項無正當理由支付對價而持有,那個處一年到七年,一年以上七年以下的有期徒刑"},{"start":8307.149,"end":8335.798,"text":"那同時第二項在這個原來第一項這個無正當理由單純持有性影像之前前次是一年影像我們現在修正為三年影像不好意思那個主席剛剛38條太快了我漏講一個因為我的版本有一個就是38條如果洩漏個資就是譬如洩漏被害人的姓名出生地域居住點要加重其刑二分之一"},{"start":8336.518,"end":8360.314,"text":"這個部分因為原本並沒有那衛福部不知道願不願意考慮因為的確是有一些洩露個資的跟你比如說你性向兒童性向就很糟糕了他還要告訴大家說他是誰然後在哪裡讀書那這種好像應該要更加重啦好OK這部分那個衛福部還沒有回應我抱歉我剛剛那個跳太快還沒看到"},{"start":8362.93,"end":8388.993,"text":"好,38條剛剛是說維持現行條文嗎?那辦委員是說他提的?洩漏個資因為這個涉及到違反個資法那我們當初在討論的時候並沒有採納委員的意見是因為在現行的個資法裡頭有相關規定是不是就回到個資法?以上"},{"start":8390.354,"end":8392.475,"text":"那我們38條先保留一下好不好來"},{"start":8420.936,"end":8444.633,"text":"男39條當然沒有意見,真的會不會有版本?好,張委員。抱歉,我想再確認一件事情,就因為39條我們是處理無證章理由、支付、對價、持有、兒少性影像。那現在在臉書有一些霸社或是RSU這種社團,這種它進去它也沒有,因為它就是會有很多人在那邊放一些私密照片這樣子,那我加入這個社團我就可以看見。那我到底是用30,我是用36條去罰嗎?現在如果要處理這個問題的話,是用36條去罰嗎?"},{"start":8451.748,"end":8472.909,"text":"這次可以請衛福部回答我嗎?這個可能要請檢察官跟法官來就幹來做整體的認定這個是要請法務部可以回應嗎?還是司法院?會請委員再講一下您說的案例"},{"start":8473.635,"end":8500.104,"text":"好就是說因為我們39條處也是吳仲江也有支付對價而持有嘛對是付錢持有的這種嘛但是因為臉書霸社有些這種霸社或是RSU這種社團他基本上就是很多私密社團然後裡面有很多的私密照那如果我今天進去看因為這樣子的行為齁我進去看喔那這個人他如果要被處罰如果我們要去偵查之後他被處罰他是用36還是用39條"},{"start":8514.528,"end":8516.749,"text":"好,那謝謝"},{"start":8543.042,"end":8545.783,"text":"抱歉我抱手我看一下44條44條也還是支付對價對對對那這個這種狀況呢因為這種社團是非常大"},{"start":8581.117,"end":8590.146,"text":"不好意思我可能就我的想像說明一下假設說今天我進入了這個網頁然後如果它是影片"},{"start":8591.226,"end":8604.296,"text":"我必須要點才會看嗎?那點下去,如果說我在偵查的過程當中,我可以證明說他其實在點了就已經下載了,那其實就可能36、39都會構成。"},{"start":8606.317,"end":8629.973,"text":"因為他就比關南要更多因為如果說今天我可能點開這個例如說我點到A網友的這個頁面我就看到這張照片我不用去點照片我就看到這張照片然後我的電腦裡面因為我沒有下載我是這樣看的話那依照現在目前應該是沒有辦法出發因為他沒有支付對價"},{"start":8631.394,"end":8658.748,"text":"但是如果說我這是一個影片然後我又點下去他才會開始刨影片那這樣的這個動作就有可能他已經下載然後我已經持有了那我們就會看這個就是整個過程因為剛剛因為那個司法院廳長也有講還要看看故意對阿所以說如果說照我剛剛在之前的說明解釋的話這個有可能都已經到重置了對阿但是還要看法官的判斷這樣以上"},{"start":8660.822,"end":8686.32,"text":"我只想要確保那個免費關懶這塊是有被含括在裡面這樣子要看個案的證據收集的認定謝謝好那39條各位還有沒有意見如果沒有意見那我們是不是可以照衛福部修正條文通過好39條通過來第40條"},{"start":8693.804,"end":8702.691,"text":"40條也請司法院、法務部表示意見。40條,法務部、司法院是為此現行條文嗎?為此現行條文。那各位有沒有意見?"},{"start":8725.612,"end":8740.497,"text":"我的版本有增加在那個第一款至第三款後面增加一個非對價性交貨猥褻行為就是如果影視宣傳品有這個部分的那這個部分是不是漏掉了可以問一下衛福部的意見嗎"},{"start":8743.124,"end":8769.855,"text":"因為我們在第二條就已經定義這個本條例所稱的這個行為就是有對價的性交猥褻所以就在條例上面他已經把他範定的這個性交猥褻就在這個地方那另外又非對價性交那就回到那個刑法的這些這個對猥褻物品這個刑法的相關規定來處理"},{"start":8772.085,"end":8787.798,"text":"我看第二條那個是下列行為之一者一才是有對價的二就是利用兒少為性交貨猥褻對啊 工人觀賞你這邊影視裡面工人不就是工人觀賞嗎你這是宣傳品出版品廣電所以他就不需要寫非對價性交"},{"start":8799.04,"end":8799.541,"text":"並科新台幣100萬。"},{"start":8823.786,"end":8840.489,"text":"我們第40條就維持現行條文接下來第41之一這個是如果用組織刑事犯罪的話加重其刑二本之一法務部跟司法院"},{"start":8846.876,"end":8871.545,"text":"委員好這個組織刑事犯本條例之罪的這個條文上一次我們已經有提供委員參考就是說我們依照組織犯罪條例它有它特定的意義跟它的結構那還有它的構成要件那我不知道委員的意思是要跟組織犯罪條例所定義的組織不一樣然後要定在這裡面"},{"start":8872.805,"end":8902.348,"text":"那如果是這樣那看要怎麼樣定我們也尊重但是如果用以組織形式犯本條例之罪可能就如果沒有改編的組織的這個定義的話那可能就會跟組織犯罪條例有重疊那就有沒有必要在這裡定那這是我們想請委員理解的如果不是如果決定不要跟組織犯罪條例一樣而要定在這裡的話那可能用組織這兩個字在這裡就不是很合適以上"},{"start":8906.488,"end":8910.435,"text":"提案委員羅廷瑋委員有要補充嗎?"},{"start":8913.078,"end":8933.192,"text":"所以法務部是不律徵,就是維持現行條文?不用,應該是不需要徵定,因為我們其實如果有組織它這樣的一個結構形式的話,其實我們就用組織犯罪條例來處理,其他更重的罪其實我們也都是這樣在處理,可能用這樣子維持原來的條文就應該是適用。好,那我們41條之一就維持現行條文,來43條。"},{"start":8937.35,"end":8953.51,"text":"四十三條是配合第39條的修正,增加了它的相次,著作相次的一個增加。以上。好,那這個應該沒有問題。好,如果我有沒有意見,四十三條通過。來,四十四條。"},{"start":8955.924,"end":8973.353,"text":"44條增加性影像這個樣態,同時把刑度做一些調整,還有罰金也做了一個調整。因為我們沒有41條之一,所以它是不予增添。好,那44條有意見嗎?好,來,林委員。"},{"start":8983.723,"end":8998.728,"text":"44條當初有提所謂的無正當理由購買取得違反第四章規定的網際網路內容提供者的會員資格而且並有適時逐任支付對價取得這個照影像"},{"start":8999.588,"end":9015.371,"text":"所以不知道衛福部這邊可不可以說明一下今天有這個會員資格像創意私房這就是有這個會員資格嗎所以想問一下你當時沒有去放在這邊的考量如果有會員資格的時候怎麼做處理"},{"start":9024.916,"end":9045.686,"text":"當時我們沒有參採的理由就是說第一個有些網站它並不是全部內容全部都是違法它也是會員才會員之個它不見得是全部都違法那查到它有加入這個不是全部都違法的會員就會涉及44條的這個刑責"},{"start":9048.547,"end":9049.308,"text":"等19人、委員李彥秀等19人、委員羅廷瑋等19人、委員"},{"start":9068.266,"end":9086.943,"text":"像創意私房跟觸感空間他們都是會員制嘛,N號房的也都是,就是說韓國N號房也都是會員制,所以當時才會去提出來這一點,只是說今天大家有提的相同的大概只有我今天在場而已,所以我還是要請你具體做說明,因為沒有"},{"start":9088.396,"end":9092.198,"text":"提供的會員資格並有事實足以認定他支付對價取得兒童及少年性影響者。"},{"start":9106.863,"end":9131.908,"text":"所以我們需要儲一年以下有期徒刑然後拘役或科或併科新台幣3萬以上那30萬以下的罰金因為他已經有這個動作他取得會員如果我今天沒有看到沒有看到他有去下載可是他已經是加入會員的話我覺得這應該也要認定然後他已經有這樣的動作了因為這個是一個犯罪樣態的認定是不是可以請法務部朱簡朱主簡來說明嗯"},{"start":9136.688,"end":9161.703,"text":"跟委員報告一下,其實我們在看這一項的時候,其實我們現在仔細念一遍就變成說你取得會員資格並有事實主任、知父對家取得兒少性影響,其實已經有到知父對家取得兒少性影響的話,其實已經是符合現在衛福部所提出建議版本39條第一項,知父對家持有兒少性影響,那這樣的話其實是一上七下。"},{"start":9162.563,"end":9177.295,"text":"的刑責。對,那其實有沒有取得會員資格也不是那麼的,就是說我今天只要支付對價取得兒少性一項,那他就是有持有的、持有的狀態。那持有狀態,他就是屬於39條第一項的規定。"},{"start":9179.116,"end":9180.757,"text":"等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等19人等"},{"start":9197.85,"end":9222.092,"text":"他不曾持有過,那個只是我們未來偵查的問題,但是他只要取得,就是變成他有持有的,曾經持有過,那這樣的話就是39條第一項就可以處理了,這樣以上。所以你的意思是說已經難怪在39條,可是如果你今天去掃蕩創意私房的時候,的確你沒有看他後邊這個人的動作,可是我在,他事實上是其中的會員,那"},{"start":9226.761,"end":9251.275,"text":"你似乎就沒有辦法是說那如果說這樣子加入的話是不是就已經先用這一個來處理他的問題而不是一定說他要持有這件事情39條講的事實上是無辜持有可是現在如果你只是查到他是這邊的會員可是他你還要進一步去證明說他持有才能進一步的去針對他的犯罪事實去認定不是嗎"},{"start":9253.498,"end":9268.023,"text":"不好意思我再補充一下我們先分成兩個層次來說明今天如果是因為他單純他是會員我們就設計刑罰要處罰他這個部分我們意見是比較可能不是那麼的適合"},{"start":9268.203,"end":9284.862,"text":"因為它有點類似所謂的預備犯就好像說我今天想要殺一個人我先去做了一個預備的計畫然後去買了刀我們在刑法上這叫做預備犯那預備犯在我們整個現行的法制底下它是屬於重罪像內亂、外患、殺人罪我們才會有預備犯的處罰"},{"start":9286.323,"end":9315.559,"text":"那今天我只是單純參與的這個會員那這個會員呢他的目的其實他就是想要看想要持有這個東西變成是持有的前階段的行為那這個就是像我剛剛講就是說這可能一個橫頻了啦然後第二個問題就在於說其實整個我們現在所有的網站啊他可能有兒少的性剝削影像但是他也有可能是成人的性影像甚至就是盜版的A片江漢之敗就是盜版A片"},{"start":9315.999,"end":9344.078,"text":"那有的人他可以主張我就只看爆白A片或對那這樣的話就是說我只去處罰他會員可能這個可能就有一點點橫平性的問題那其實然後在就這個委員所提的版本底下因為他有並有事實主任之夫對價取得其實就可能是我的解讀問題啦就是我的解讀會覺得說有事實主任之夫對價取得的話其實就已經是持有了對所以他其實就是引導39條底下以上"},{"start":9346.94,"end":9370.576,"text":"好,那如果委員這邊沒有意見的話那我們就44條44條就按照衛福部的建議修正條文通過那剛剛第41條之一呢因為是原來沒有的條文所以是不予增訂對,是要不予增訂好,來接下來第"},{"start":9375.086,"end":9375.386,"text":"45條建議維持原條文"},{"start":9412.183,"end":9427.874,"text":"因為這一條也是針對這個要提高這個刑責所以我們基於這個在去年二月的時候有做了一些調整而且他的一個橫評我們也是司法院保部也可以表示一些"},{"start":9436.141,"end":9459.949,"text":"法務部也要表示意見嗎?因為這是盤整過的刑度,我們就是整體依照那個刑罰原來的比較基礎來看那像45條它是兒少坐台陪酒、陪室的這個行為那原來去年在盤整的時候其實那個刑度也已經是有考量過的"},{"start":9460.769,"end":9485.139,"text":"那委員我看委員的版本好像是就是要提高嗎那因為我們是整體來看那其他的條文因為已經都已經是OK的這個條文是不是也是跟其他條文相比較之下是比較也是原條文應該是就可以了因為這不是我們去年沒有考慮到的條文那只是委員還有一個是要怎麼依法勒令停業這部分這個部分可能就是屬於"},{"start":9486.059,"end":9504.988,"text":"行政、行政法的部分,那是不是就請衛福部主管機關來署名。那個勒令平業部分。我們當初修參照兒權法裡頭相關規定是讓他停一個月以上、一年以下去做這個這個"},{"start":9507.759,"end":9509,"text":"等19人、委員李彥秀等19人、委員李彥秀等19人、委員"},{"start":9531.472,"end":9550.94,"text":"45條之二我們在先前委員會議的時候有討論到這個所謂的公佈姓名因為在104年在這個這個兒少性剝削防制條例大修的時候有特別這個當時的尤美女委員特別有提到說現在是一個人權國家"},{"start":9552.501,"end":9573.539,"text":"如果要對特定的這個專業人員要去做公佈姓名回到兒權法所以在兒權法裡頭97條有對這個特定的職業做一個公佈姓名其他部分因為已經有一些判決書在司法的這個系統裡頭都有公告那這個地方我們就不以爭定建議不以爭定好45條最後不以爭定有沒有意見如果沒有意見那我們就不以爭定"},{"start":9583.325,"end":9601.7,"text":"你說判決書有公布所以就不用?兩個地方一個如果是這個行為人他的特定職業是跟兒少有關例如說他可能是當老師或者是當幼保的教保人員我們會在兒權法裡頭去公布他的姓名因為他會"},{"start":9606.103,"end":9628.461,"text":"此外的部分,這些都是所謂的刑法,判決主文,判決這些公文書會公告,會在司法院的網站或者是它的系統裡頭會去做公佈,所以我們建議不做重複的這樣的一個公佈。"},{"start":9629.842,"end":9652.248,"text":"因為他會接觸到兒童所以公布所以酒駕的人會接觸兒童那個行為那個行為會對兒少的所謂的人身安全又違反、危害例如說性侵害、兒少虐待還有兒少性剝削這些都在這個我們在保護兒少的"},{"start":9652.836,"end":9653.736,"text":"等19人、委員蔡易餘等19人、委員"},{"start":9678.775,"end":9697.595,"text":"就兩個104年以前這一類的案件都有公佈姓名在104年修正的時候在三讀在這個立法院就大院在三讀的時候已經有一個提案就是建議為就是基於這個人權所以這個"},{"start":9698.476,"end":9717.934,"text":"不再作姓名的一個公佈這第一個說明那第二個說明就是如果這個犯罪行為這個行為人他的職業會有跟兒少這個特定人員接觸就他會跟孩子的照顧或教育會有關我們會在兒少福利法裡頭97條會有公佈姓名"},{"start":9720.939,"end":9740.938,"text":"所以我們建議這邊不重複抱歉我想延伸一下這一題就是說因為我們雖然在現在是在兒權法裡面有違定但是它主要是規範在各縣市政府嘛對不對各縣市政府自己公佈還是我們有一個CRC的一個網站是在CRC網站裡面可以找到這些這些人員的名字是"},{"start":9742.383,"end":9745.085,"text":"第45條之二,我們就先保留。我出一下時間,我們2點50"},{"start":9766.946,"end":9773.255,"text":"就是要結束那如果處理不完就再開一次協商會議就是保留條文如果沒辦法處理來第51條"},{"start":9777.762,"end":9788.65,"text":"51條就回應先前委員一直提到的要身心治療輔導教育的內容我們把它在第一項裡頭載明犯36條第三項之罪經判決有罪確定準用性欺害犯罪防治法的身心治療輔導教育以及加害人的社區的"},{"start":9802.159,"end":9808.863,"text":"監控,包括要有所謂的登記報告、查訪這一件事情,寫在第51條的第一項。好,針對第51條,請問各位有沒有意見?"},{"start":9817.849,"end":9845.147,"text":"五十一條我的版本是覺得目前這個四小時以上五十小時以下的輔導教育好像真的還蠻不夠的所以我的版本是第一個部分四改成八八小時以上五十小時以下那另外呢因為你後面罰款他如果不來上你就是一次罰新台幣六千以上三萬元以下你雖然可以按次處罰可是他如果都不來呢所以我的部分是加上"},{"start":9845.867,"end":9846.347,"text":"處罰至其參加為止。"},{"start":9865.214,"end":9888.196,"text":"我的部分,當然輔導教育沒有什麼特別意見,可是是不是可以加身心治療,因為有時候不是只有輔導教育就有效,還有在增列一項是說,前項輔導教育或身心治療,借滿錢還是要評估,因為過去在看,像這種性的或毒品都是累犯率實際上是比較高,那如果關於影片他大概也有一個,"},{"start":9889.237,"end":9889.317,"text":"羅廷瑋委員"},{"start":9914.825,"end":9928.964,"text":"我也是提高8小時到50小時以下新台幣儲3萬到10萬元以下支持輔導教育還要再加上心理治療但之前王振旭委員有跟我們稍微提到"},{"start":9929.665,"end":9957.268,"text":"如果這一類的人都要心理治療的話整個量能會造成崩壞所以我是建議在心理治療前應該要接受其評估有必要者才接受心理治療無必要者或者是沒救的人我覺得也不能讓我們的這個心理治療的量能整個去崩毀在所有的加害者那會造成真正需要的人會用不到所以這個部分我希望說能夠要增加"},{"start":9958.128,"end":9984.778,"text":"評估後需心理治療好那51條我們就先保留好不好來接下來51條之二51條這基本上就在51條裡面的內容那我們建議不以申訂好那因為51條保留這個就併到51條嘛對不對"},{"start":9988.141,"end":10003.698,"text":"五十一條之二不予增訂五十一條之三也是在五十一條的內容,那就不予增訂第四章之一"},{"start":10006.089,"end":10019.073,"text":"第四章之一有民眾黨團提的這些內容是參考這個性侵害犯罪防治法對這個行為人要建立這個所謂的缺氧核糖核酸的這個整體的一個做法"},{"start":10021.574,"end":10047.712,"text":"那基本上這個兩類的行為人基本上是不同因為性侵害他的特殊性第一個他再犯率高第二個他有密施犯罪的這種效果因此他要去比對他預防他再犯或者是他要去確定他是不是就是該行為人所以他要用這個去氧核糖核酸來建立他的有點像DNA這樣的一個比對然而"},{"start":10050.574,"end":10068.741,"text":"而少性剝削這個防制條例所犯的這個行為人基本上跟性侵害是不同所以我們建議這個第四章之一的所有的內容建議不以徵定好那第四章之一不以徵定以下"},{"start":10070.32,"end":10097.5,"text":"第五十二條之二、五十二條之三、五十二條之四、五十二條之五、五十二條之六五十二條之六也是在加害人的登記報告也就是五十一條的內容裡頭有涉及所以我們建議併入五十一條去處理"},{"start":10099.91,"end":10111.992,"text":"那剛剛就是52條之二、之三、之四、之五都不予增訂52條之六並到51條就是在討論處理好那第53條53條配合39條的相似的一個調整著作相似的一個增訂好那這個應該沒有問題好那第55條"},{"start":10128.868,"end":10146.74,"text":"15條就是施行日期,那因為涉及到這一次修正的第三條、第八條跟第八條之一以及47條,它有涉及到這個所謂的行政處分,那因此我們希望這個日期由行政院定之,其他的自公佈日施行。好,這個沒有涉及到剛剛的保留條嗎?"},{"start":10151.909,"end":10179.425,"text":"有,第三條?第三條,是。那就先保留好了,沒關係,我們下次再一併處理。好,那如果這樣子的話,就是第二條保留,第三條保留,第三十八條保留,然後第四十五條之二保留,第五十一條保留,我們下次再繼續協商處理。剩一分鐘。還有哪一個?還有一個什麼?五十五條。有五十五條嗎?"},{"start":10182.252,"end":10192.815,"text":"對,還有55條,還有55條保留那下一次我們協商就處理這幾個保留的條文好,謝謝時間到還有一分鐘"},{"start":10198.114,"end":10201.857,"text":"立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商："},{"start":10230.02,"end":10234.061,"text":"蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}