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到台灣民眾黨到現在還是沒有任何希望解凍的這個想法那在這邊我要非常剛剛主席你也講到你今天排這個其實是要為了未來解凍方便我跟你說啦主席"},{"start":75.467,"end":97.44,"text":"這一個道路品質的專案報告裡面還有這個生活圈道路還有提升人行安全計畫還有提升道路品質計畫有三個你要不要做三次這假的啊那也跟解凍無關啊今天就是大家好好來檢討這些專案報告我想要請教署長的"},{"start":100.748,"end":118.784,"text":"我從去年一直在爭取包含這個我們內政委員會到高雄考察那我跟剛才的黃婕委員我們也一起考察了高雄車站旁邊的這個人行道人行道的專案計畫那個時候我們剛通過行人安全行人交通安全設施條例"},{"start":119.947,"end":144.161,"text":"所以國土署這邊也提出包含六年幾百億的預算計畫我想這個剛剛也講得很清楚有被延宕了署長我請教你我們另外一次考察的翠華路跟德明路提升道路品質計畫這個會不會受到影響這個高雄市對我們來講對高雄市的整個預算來講"},{"start":146.089,"end":172.035,"text":"兩條路鋪設道路品質要達到兩億的預算喔這個有沒有受到影響我一個一個問完第二個新台17南段工程我也帶你去看了這個接受路的拓寬也是需要兩億多的生活圈道路這個有沒有受到影響還有新莊一路用地改善計畫新莊一路整個下水道"},{"start":173.739,"end":198.449,"text":"計劃都已經送過來了現在是不是要停下來了這個有沒有受到影響我們擔心的是這些計劃有沒有因為預算的統三600多億再加上財劃法好你現在財劃法下放給地方之後這一些我剛提到的這幾個有沒有受到影響組長我簡單說明那前瞻的部分"},{"start":199.195,"end":218.733,"text":"立案前瞻的部分是確實啦就是說新的核定案都先停下來新的核定案就是原來在今年所以啊新的S7難斷這個是新的核定案啊對那這是第一個第二個就是說生活圈的部分也很明確就是說優先給已經發包執行中的"},{"start":219.848,"end":249.285,"text":"又先給發包執行中的署長我這個新台17還沒有發包執行因為後來國防部這邊有提出另外的需求沒錯沒錯已經協調好了又被影響了是好不容易行政院已經協調好了對所以有關於生活圈不管是新台17或是後面講的這個道路拓寬案大概這個部分就是屬於新的案件的話我們也都是先審但是沒有辦法核定"},{"start":250.151,"end":277.819,"text":"現在就沒有辦法 因為我們預算是優先給執行中的蘇長我不知道你收到公文了沒有這個行政院已經協調好國防部對於他的戰備然後對於他的這個攻堅計畫 待拆待限的計畫這個已經協調好了包含工程會已經協調好了那我也希望這一部分因為已經協調好的話國路署這邊可以一樣來做一個審查至於您剛剛最後提到還有裁劃法的部分因為裁劃法也是我們現在在等最後的結果"},{"start":278.92,"end":287.32,"text":"因為才化法的部分會對於這一個永續跟這一個生活圈的部分大概又是另外一個因為現在我們也在"},{"start":288.204,"end":314.532,"text":"最後在等院的最後的結果那到時候也會跟地方政府再召開看看是後續的執行案件的分配比率經費的這個分擔比率或者是說對於核定案件的內容是不是大家要重新做調整這個我們就會有相關的因應的做法再來做跟地方政府來做溝通我也會跟高雄市政府一起找內政部一起找國土署來做這些相關的討論"},{"start":315.802,"end":341.269,"text":"因為我們這個好不容易從劉世芳立委爭取到劉世芳部長到現在好不容易把最後的代差代鑒還有這個戰備都已經協調好了然後現在因為被國土署被內政部認為是新的計畫可能會有延宕我要請劉部長新台17啊劉部長有請"},{"start":345.976,"end":362.713,"text":"最後這個待才待見還有戰備這個都已經協調完了在這個行政院都已經協調完了那剛剛署長說這個可能會屬於新的計畫可能會延宕到新台時期接下來其實已經可以動工了但是算新的計畫可能沒有辦法動了"},{"start":364.274,"end":389.817,"text":"這個請問部長我們要怎麼接下來處理目前因為新台時期線確實是分成兩段南段這部分我上個禮拜已經卸掉好了如果是屬於一個已經執行當中的計畫然後是跨年度的話我們來看看原先的計畫可不可以容納進去但是如果是全新的話可能沒有這個行政院或者是立法院講好未來要煽動的這個預算數有沒有包括這一項那如果沒有包括的話我們才能執行"},{"start":390.339,"end":411.672,"text":"那簡單講 也跟部長說明一下現在的進度到這個中正 到介壽路這一段 其實算舊的計畫但是從介壽路再往南 我跟署長去會刊的這一段兩億多因為後面有牽涉到古蹟公園 遺蹟公園等等的這一段可能算新的計畫"},{"start":412.873,"end":422.509,"text":"但這兩億多新的計畫來講對台17來講就是最後就是差了那麼一公里差那麼一公里就到中華路沒辦法非常可惜齁"},{"start":423.628,"end":451.135,"text":"這牽涉到我們整個南門也要做一個改造把原本的六個路口的圓環要改造成兩個大路口也就是從成豐路接古山路從左營大路接中華路然後合併我們的這個新台時期我們希望這一個計畫也可以來創造包含這個財化法實施之後那財化法當然現在可能也在示現財化法如果實施到底高昌市政府這一步"},{"start":451.515,"end":468.771,"text":"這一條道路剛市政府可能原本分配的比例25他可能可能要變成70或多少這可能都要必須必須大家一起來協商有可能114年的這個總預算可能要跟財化法一起聯動才能夠處理這個委員所說的這一段這個道路要施工的這個計畫總經費的部分"},{"start":470.977,"end":487.508,"text":"謝謝部長這個我們還是要一起來努力啦雖然我已經接手你繼續在處理新台時期了現在遇到的狀況那部長也非常清楚那也希望部長可以指示國土署這邊新台時期要讓他如期在明年完工我們來努力謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":381,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（10時12分）請署長。"],["主席：署長，有請！"],["吳署長欣修：委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：今天是專案報告，不是解凍！","今天這個專案報告的名稱是「市區道路品質改善計畫執行效益與檢討」，它是源自我們去年度在審預算的時候，台灣民眾黨黨團所提出來的凍結案，凍結了這個計畫25%的預算。從剛才台灣民眾黨委員質疑其執行率98%，以及地方政府是否需要這些相關計畫的內容，可以看到台灣民眾黨到現在還是沒有任何解凍的想法。","剛剛主席講到，今天排這個議程是為了未來解凍方便，我跟你說啦，主席，今天這個市區道路品質的專案報告裡面，有生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫、提升人行安全計畫、提升道路品質計畫，有3個，你要不要做3次？這假的啊！跟解凍無關啊！今天就是大家好好地來檢討這些專案報告。","我想要請教署長，我從去年一直在爭取，包含我們內政委員會到高雄考察，我跟剛才的黃捷委員也一起考察了高雄車站旁邊的人行道專案計畫，那個時候我們剛通過行人交通安全設施條例，所以國土署也提出6年幾百億預算的計畫，但是剛剛也講得很清楚，這個已經被延宕了。","署長，我請教你，我們另外一次考察的翠華路跟德民路提升道路品質計畫會不會受到影響？對高雄市的整個預算來講，鋪設這兩條路的提升道路品質計畫需要2億的預算，它有沒有受到影響？第二個是新台17南段工程，我也帶你去看了介壽路的拓寬，這也是需要兩億多經費的生活圈道路，它有沒有受到影響？還有新莊一路用地改善計畫，新莊一路整個下水道計畫都已經送過來了，現在是不是要停下來？這個有沒有受到影響？署長，我們擔心的是我剛剛講的這些計畫有沒有因為預算統刪六百多億，再加上財劃法下放給地方之後而受到影響？"],["吳署長欣修：我簡單說明，前瞻的部分確實新的核定案都先停下來，就是原來在今年……"],["李委員柏毅：新台17南段就是新的核定案啊！"],["吳署長欣修：對，這是第一個。第二個是生活圈道路的部分也很明確，就是優先給已經發包執行中的，那……"],["李委員柏毅：署長，新台17還沒有發包執行，因為後來國防部有提出另外的需求……"],["吳署長欣修：沒錯、沒錯。"],["李委員柏毅：已經協調好了耶，結果又被影響了！"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["李委員柏毅：好不容易行政院已經協調好了耶！"],["吳署長欣修：對。所以有關生活圈道路，不管是新台17或者是後面講的道路拓寬案，這個部分都屬於新的案件，我們都是先審，但是沒有辦法核定，因為我們的預算是優先給執行中的。"],["李委員柏毅：署長，我不知道你收到公文了沒有？行政院已經協調好國防部和工程會，對於它的戰備道路、公建計畫和代拆代建計畫，都已經協調好了。因為已經協調好了，我也希望國土署可以一樣來做個審查。"],["吳署長欣修：至於委員最後提到還有財劃法的部分，這部分我們正在等最後的結果。因為財劃法對永續提升人行安全計畫和生活圈道路的部分又是另外一個影響，所以我們也在等行政院的最後結果，到時候會再跟地方政府召開會議，後續執行案件的經費分擔比例和核定案件的內容都要重新做調整，這部分我們會有相關的因應做法，屆時再跟地方政府溝通。"],["李委員柏毅：我也會跟高雄市政府一起找內政部和國土署來做相關的討論。因為我們從劉世芳立委爭取到劉世芳部長，好不容易把最後的代拆、代建還有戰備道路的部分都協調好，現在卻因為被國土署、內政部認為是新的計畫而可能會有延宕。","我要請劉部長。"],["主席：劉部長，有請。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：報告部長，最後代拆、代建和戰備道路的部分都已經在行政院協調完了，剛剛署長說可能會因為它屬於新的計畫而使新台17受到延宕。其實本來已經可以動工了，但是因為算新的計畫而沒有辦法動工，請問部長，接下來我們要怎麼處理？"],["劉部長世芳：因為新台17線確實是分成2段……"],["李委員柏毅：南段這一部分我上個禮拜已經協調好了。"],["劉部長世芳：如果是已經在執行當中的計畫，而且是跨年度的話，我們來看看原先的計畫可不可以容納進去，但如果是全新的計畫，可能要行政院或者是立法院講好未來要刪、凍的預算數有沒有包括這一項，如果沒有包括的話，我們才能執行。"],["李委員柏毅：我也跟部長簡單說明一下現在的進度，到介壽路這一段其實算舊的計畫，但是從介壽路再往南，我跟署長去會勘的這一段需要兩億多，因為後面有牽涉到遺跡公園等等的，這一段可能算新的計畫。這兩億多的新計畫對台17來講，就是差了最後那麼一公里！差那麼一公里就到中華路，現在卻沒辦法到，實在非常可惜。這還牽涉到我們整個南門也要做一個改造，把原本有6個路口的圓環改造成2個大路口，也就是從城峰路接鼓山路，以及從左營大路接中華路，然後合併到新台17，我們希望這個計畫可以來創造……包含財劃法實施之後，當然財劃法現在可能也在釋憲，財劃法如果實施，這一條道路，高雄市政府可能原本分配的比例25%，可能要變成70%或多少，這可能都必須要大家一起來協商。"],["劉部長世芳：有可能。114年的總預算可能要跟財劃法一起連動，才能夠處理委員所說的這一段道路施工計畫總經費的部分。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝部長，這個部分我們還是要一起來努力，雖然我已經接手你繼續在處理新台17了，現在遇到的狀況，部長也非常清楚，也希望部長可以指示國土署，新台17要讓它如期在明年完工。"],["劉部長世芳：我們來努力。"],["李委員柏毅：好，謝謝。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李柏毅委員。","我還是要再次跟委員會說明，專案報告要排幾次、要怎麼解凍，大家都商量過了，包含今天的題目，剛剛有人在質疑今天的題目，今天的題目是跟國土署商量好的，不要打錯人，自己打臉政府很奇怪，如果解凍案真的要排三次，民進黨的召委要排三次以求完備，我們當然也會尊重，好不好？但是我們認為道路圈這個題目、案子排一次，把它講清楚，有些人關心品質、有些人關心人行道、有些人關心建設進度，把它講清楚了，對於解凍是有幫助的。再來，這個會議不是假的，召委該排、該處理好的、該溝通好的，都有做前置的溝通，不要到最後弄起來好像是民進黨委員不想解凍，這不太好看，好不好？","好，下一位我們請蘇巧慧委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-8","speakers":["牛煦庭","張宏陸","李柏毅","麥玉珍","張智倫","王美惠","黃捷","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","吳琪銘","洪孟楷","許宇甄","鄭天財Sra 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