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直接講新竹產業園區內"},{"start":115.752,"end":131.807,"text":"其實就以前的新豐湖口工業區它現在叫新竹產業園區那這裡面我想你應該很熟啊工業三路、勝利二路還有榮光路那一段那邊長期反應都沒有改善工業區的部分是屬於在經濟部"},{"start":134.25,"end":161.906,"text":"工業區內工業區內是經濟部所以縣市政府不能提要提到經濟部他經濟部他之前也有他前幾年我印象他有做但是他不是全部都在做他有時候也會跟我們協商有一些在拜託我們或交通部做那有一部分他自己做可是可是這一個如果他是縣道呢縣道縣府不能提案給你們不能改善嗎"},{"start":163.43,"end":167.407,"text":"說明一下如果工業區範圍內還是屬於它才屬於經濟部的部分"},{"start":168.389,"end":192.489,"text":"工業區的外面的話如果在獨基內就是屬於我們屬於你們的嘛那榮光路是它主五線嘛主五線是我們縣道嘛是是是對所以這一塊那如果是提升道路品質的部分那就是在前瞻裡面就是它路況是做更新而已而不是有拓寬生活圈是主要你可能有拓寬有有有它需要拓寬"},{"start":194.248,"end":214.527,"text":"地方要求拓寬多年民怨沸騰所以我現在想知道你們審核的機制到底是怎麼樣說明一下那這個部分我想我們再來跟縣府或跟公所了解看為什麼他們過去從來沒有提案因為有可能他覺得那個徵收費用可能太驚人或怎麼樣他有時候也不太敢提案"},{"start":216.259,"end":233.308,"text":"是因為這樣有可能因為有時候地方政府尤其到鄉鎮公所那個層級他會很在意講到這個我可能要請部長部長您也來一下因為我看到我們這個有所謂的道安總動員平台那個好像是交通部管的對不對"},{"start":234.811,"end":246.877,"text":"你看它就是道安道路安全道安應該是道路交通安全道安總動員平台國土署這邊也負責一些市區道路"},{"start":248.383,"end":272.994,"text":"那這個怎麼整合所以我請部長來主要就針對因為這可能有跨部會的問題如果你現在講的就是產業園區外面的道路的話那我會建議說委員可不可以就是說我們國土署跟交通部或者是跟經濟部共同去看一下大家把它查清楚就是全署的單位是誰然後來決定然後再跟地方政府來做溝通道安總動員平台它這是一個平台"},{"start":273.954,"end":298.517,"text":"去年6月24號才上線我們的行政院長都還有開記者會那他一直在定期公佈各縣市交通事故以及開放民眾通報路口改善建議那像這個既然他的利益是如此可是這個好像沒有真正發揮功效因為民眾反應也不一定有效再來就是我們發現"},{"start":301.132,"end":316.44,"text":"這個系統這可能交通部要上來因為這整合的他這個網站統計到今天我們上去看他還只統計到2月25號所以部長不好意思我請您還有交通部今天是"},{"start":319.259,"end":327.851,"text":"副局長副局長副局長來對那像這一個網站上今天已經4月份了結果4月7號了結果我們現在統計只到2月25號這一個系統"},{"start":334.059,"end":351.591,"text":"在放假期間網頁斷線你們這個系統不穩有一個說我要通報路口改善結果完全無從反應所以我也要同步表達就是說這個系統好像完全沒辦法work"},{"start":354.403,"end":379.085,"text":"那個副局長一副這個完全不知情然後這個上面本席也要建議這個應該是應該可以隨時及時更新可是他其實整個直到2月25去年6月我在這邊要凸顯第一個跨部會因為民眾的很多事情他不是單一的單位像今天這個可能內政部跟交通部都有關"},{"start":380.026,"end":401.185,"text":"那我们的中央政府真的少一点政治斗争多一点为民服务啊那这个去年六月才开记者会的到现在根本不work而且完全的也都好像摊在那里不到一年然后统计整个就好像摆烂在那里"},{"start":403.243,"end":411.963,"text":"報告委員 您簡單回覆這個系統其實隨時在更新 尤其是填報的像回報的 民眾一來 他直接是上網填報的"},{"start":412.861,"end":434.342,"text":"它上面就寫統計至2月25號啊你真的要我秀出來對啊統計至2月25號啊然後親民廉價你們應該知道那個民眾很多要反映的我們當然也是在準備質詢稿我們發現完全上機啊你們也沒人知道啊這個部分我們回去再查一下啦但是那個更新的部分是像"},{"start":436.038,"end":464.947,"text":"地方政府做這個路口做完了地方政府馬上會上這個網填報完成那他是隨時再更新你不要說一套做一套你去了解實際情況OK那部長你也請那個請回座請回座我最後請署長署長那個我們今天講這個道路品質嘛那其實現在你應該知道市區道路的話其實人行道跟自行車道的需求越來越大我相信您了解嘛"},{"start":465.427,"end":478.835,"text":"所以有關人行道跟自行車道的話事好像中央沒有什麼這個相關的一些措施報告我們在去年已經有公布那個"},{"start":479.833,"end":499.131,"text":"市區人行人行設施的這個這個相關的這樣一個規範都有了自行車道的建置有統一的標準人行道的部分有自行車道在交通部因為我們發現我們3月份3月份新竹縣整個道安事故是您知道嗎這個竟然"},{"start":502.577,"end":531.324,"text":"去這個三月份今年三月份的統計去年在騎自行車死亡的人數竟然是成長率百分之百那所以這個部分就是說人行道跟自行車道的部分這一塊你們怎麼樣來改善因為我們常聽到民眾跟我們反應就是說我走在人行道上我很容易可能會被自行車撞到"},{"start":533.304,"end":559.489,"text":"因為自行車道的劃設很多地方不足然後現在UBIKE全國都一直在進行我們新竹縣也在這幾年非常蓬勃的發展所以是不是你自行車等於說騎自行車死亡跟受傷的人數逐年這幾年是不是因為我們整個中央的法規還有我們的這個實施一直沒有跟上民眾生活的腳步"},{"start":562.528,"end":584.109,"text":"因為過去在人行道的設計上跟自行車到底是共用還是分隔其實交通部都有頒布相關的規定那當然我想在很多老的城市尤其像新竹市區本身道路就比較小那能夠擠出人行道大概就很不容易那如果要在人行道裡面再去做分隔"},{"start":584.81,"end":605.288,"text":"可能會更難所以我在猜這塊國土署有相關經費嗎沒有 我說明一下因為它是在你的標誌標線上要去做共用或區隔所以這個是在這為什麼是交通部因為在所有的這個道安規則裡面都是在交通部交通部它是執行單位"},{"start":608.191,"end":609.572,"text":"還有法規那是經費你們這邊有嗎改善的部分是我們有所以你們改善他們也有嗎"},{"start":621.57,"end":639.842,"text":"有他們也有所以這樣好像你很難控管嘛都市計劃區內的話大概是我們我現在都講都市計劃區內啊對對所以我說明一下就是說人行道做好了他到底是要用共用還是分隔就是市政府要決定因為標準都有"},{"start":641.294,"end":667.604,"text":"由市政府決定沒有一個通用的法規或什麼就是它交通部有頒訂的規則是共用跟分隔都可以就是你地方政府依照實際情形去決定是要共用還是分隔那所以可能是新竹市政府還沒有去做好這樣的一個規定沒有啦我是管新竹縣啦新竹縣的部分也沒有去可能還沒有去做好這一塊的這個分隔的標準新竹縣也很多地方沒有啊"},{"start":668.701,"end":691.483,"text":"所以第一個建人行道您的意思是說這是縣市政府的責任應該這麼說人行道的部分經費我們來協助但是做好了你到底是跟自行車道要分隔我從頭到尾問的時候你們在審核經費你們在給地方當然地方都很希望你們給但是民眾跟我們都希望你們給下去我們是看得到成果的"},{"start":692.495,"end":715.46,"text":"我們當然也不會覺得說你給我那個不好但是你在審核的時候你怎麼樣把經費能夠包括它的執行對執行成效你們有在管嗎有這根本報告我們大概每年就足跡都會做一些檢討足跡都會做一些檢討檢討前一年的前一年對那尤其大概做好以後會跟前一年的"},{"start":716.703,"end":727.948,"text":"就做好執行一年以後會跟之前沒有做完之前的交通事故去做一個比較所以你不會針對他他做了有沒有符合需求"},{"start":729.688,"end":748.981,"text":"福爾曲球的部分當然就是因為你地方政府提出這一些但是剩下就是有一些就變成民眾再來反映的時候那我們當然也會去做檢討這也是我們為什麼會有推一個街道醫生的那樣的一個計畫就讓民眾來提出他們的一些看法街道醫生是國土署提的嗎對對對"},{"start":750.906,"end":778.054,"text":"也就讓他們提出來有哪一些看法那我們會針對那樣的路口去提出來看看要怎麼去改善或是路段要怎麼去改善那這也就是有時候我們會接受民眾投票我們每年都有讓民眾來投票那還有做醫生 接到醫生的一個檢視是做這樣來協助大家看怎麼樣改善好 謝謝好 謝謝徐信英委員的質詢報告委員會我們中午不休息下一位我們請徐副委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":824,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（11時54分）謝謝主席，本席請吳署長。"],["主席：吳署長有請。"],["吳署長欣修：委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：署長好。請教一下署長，今天內政部的報告是不是貴署所寫的？執筆的是不是國土署？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，本席想請教你，你們在背景說明中特別提到生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫是辦理道路的新闢或拓寬，針對目前各直轄市、縣市政府既有道路功能不彰、危險或交通瓶頸來進行系統整合，那我們想了解，你們現在跟地方之間是不是都是地方提案，由你們審查，然後撥經費？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在地方有一些路段，雖然民眾長期反映，可是一直沒改善，所以你們在審核的時候是用什麼樣的機制？"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下，就是在生活圈送來的時候，其實我們不會只有看那一條路，我們也會看周圍的環境、改善的效益，大概是這樣。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我把我的題目講得更明確一點，你們一直撥錢，每年預算在全國這樣下去，但是有些地方的路段長期一直沒有改善，這種情形怎麼辦？"],["吳署長欣修：應該這麼說，要看它是哪一類，譬如說……"],["徐委員欣瑩：是看它是什麼道路嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：有的是屬於非都市土地，可能就是我們跟交通部有分責，第二個是說……"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在我直接講，在新竹產業園區內，其實就是以前的新豐湖口工業區，它現在叫新竹產業園區，我想你應該很熟，有工業三路、勝利二路還有榮光路那一段，那邊有人長期反映，可是都沒有改善。"],["吳署長欣修：工業區的部分是屬於經濟部。"],["徐委員欣瑩：喔？"],["吳署長欣修：在工業區內是歸經濟部。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以縣市政府不能提，要提到經濟部？這些道路不可以嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：經濟部之前也有，我印象中它在前幾年有做，但是它不是全部都在做，它有時候也會跟我們協商，有一些拜託我們或交通部做，那有一部分是它自己做。"],["徐委員欣瑩：可是如果它是縣道呢？對縣道縣府不能提案給你們，不能改善嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下，如果在工業區的範圍內，還是屬於經濟部的部分。"],["徐委員欣瑩：工業區的周邊主要道路……"],["吳署長欣修：但是外面的話，如果在都計內，就是屬於我們。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是屬於你們的嘛？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那榮光路是竹5線，竹5線是我們的縣道嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以這一塊……"],["吳署長欣修：如果是提升道路品質的部分，那就是在前瞻裡面，就是路況做更新而已，而不是有拓寬，生活圈主要是可能有拓寬……"],["徐委員欣瑩：有，它需要拓寬。"],["吳署長欣修：這個部分其實我們可以再來了解看看有沒有提案。"],["徐委員欣瑩：地方要求拓寬多年，民怨沸騰，所以我現在想知道你們審核的機制到底是怎麼樣。"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下，這個部分我想我們再來跟縣府或公所了解，看看為什麼他們過去從來沒有提案，因為有可能它覺得那個徵收費用太驚人或怎麼樣，它有時候也不太敢提案。"],["徐委員欣瑩：喔，是因為這樣。"],["吳署長欣修：有可能，因為有時候地方政府尤其到鄉鎮公所那個層級，它會很在意那個徵收的經費。"],["徐委員欣瑩：講到這個，我可能要請問部長，部長，您也上來一下，因為我看到我們有所謂的道安總動員平臺，那個好像是交通部管的，對不對？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你看它就是道安，道安應該是道路交通安全，在道安總動員平臺國土署這邊也負責一些市區道路，那這個要怎麼整合？我請部長上來主要就是針對這個，因為這個可能有跨部會的問題。"],["劉部長世芳：徐委員，如果你現在講的是產業園區外面的道路，那我會建議委員，可不可以由我們國土署跟交通部或者是跟經濟部共同去看一下，大家把它查清楚，就是權屬的單位是誰，然後來決定，然後再跟地方政府來做溝通。"],["徐委員欣瑩：道安總動員平臺是一個平臺，在去年6月24號才上線，我們的行政院長都還有開記者會。"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這個平臺一直在定期公布各縣市交通事故以及開放民眾通報路口改善建議，雖然它的立意是如此，可是好像沒有真正發揮功效，因為就算民眾反映也不一定有效，再來就是我們發現這個系統……可能交通部要上來，因為這個是整合的，我們今天上去看了，這個網站還只統計到2月25號。部長，不好意思，我請問您還有交通部副局長，今天已經4月7號了，結果現在這個網站只統計到2月25號，這一個系統在放假期間網頁斷線，你們這個系統不穩，裡面有一個是「我要通報路口改善」，結果完全無從反映，所以我也要同步表達這個系統好像沒辦法work，副局長一副完全不知情的樣子。然後本席也要建議這個上面應該是可以隨時、即時更新，可是它只統計到2月25號。我要凸顯的第一個是跨部會，因為民眾很多事情不是只關係單一的單位，像今天這個可能內政部跟交通部都有關，我們的中央政府真的要少一點政治鬥爭，多一點為民服務啊！去年6月才開記者會的，到現在根本不work，而且好像完全攤在那裡，不到一年，然後整個統計就擺爛在那裡。你簡單回復。"],["林副局長聰利：報告委員，這個系統其實隨時在更新，尤其是填報的、回報的，民眾是直接上網填報的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：它上面就寫統計至2月25號啊，你真的要我秀出來，對啊！統計至2月25號啊！"],["林副局長聰利：我們會隨時更新……"],["徐委員欣瑩：清明連假期間，你們應該知道民眾很多要反映的，當然我們也是在準備質詢稿，但卻發現完全當機，你們也沒人知道啊？"],["林副局長聰利：這個部分，我們回去再查一下啦！但是更新的部分是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：太誇張了。"],["林副局長聰利：像地方政府路口做完了，它會馬上上這個網填報完成，它是隨時在更新的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好啦，你不要說一套做一套，你去了解實際情況。"],["林副局長聰利：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK，部長也請回座，我最後請署長。署長，我們今天講道路品質，你應該知道現在市區道路對於人行道跟自行車道的需求越來越大，我相信您了解嘛？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以有關人行道跟自行車道的劃設，中央有沒有相關的一些措施？"],["吳署長欣修：我們在去年已經有公布市區人行設施相關的規範，已經都發布了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：自行車道的建置有統一的標準？"],["吳署長欣修：沒有，人行道的部分有，自行車道在交通部有公布。"],["徐委員欣瑩：因為我們發現3月份新竹縣整個道安事故，您知道嗎？今年3月份統計去年騎自行車死亡的人數，竟然成長率是百分之百！所以人行道跟自行車道的部分，這一塊你們怎麼樣來改善？因為我們常常聽到民眾跟我們反映，走在人行道上，他可能很容易會被自行車撞到，因為自行車道的劃設很多地方不足，然後現在Ubike全國都一直在進行，我們新竹縣在這幾年也非常蓬勃的發展，所以等於騎自行車死亡跟受傷的人數逐年攀升，是不是因為中央的法規及實施，一直沒有跟上民眾生活的腳步？"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下，過去在人行道的設計上，跟自行車到底是共用還是分隔，其實交通部都有頒布相關的規定，但是我想在很多老的城市，尤其像新竹市區本身道路就比較小，能夠擠出人行道大概就很不容易，如果要在人行道裡面再去做分隔可能會更難，所以我想它可能……"],["徐委員欣瑩：這一塊國土署有相關經費嗎？針對自行車道。"],["吳署長欣修：沒有，我說明一下，因為它是在標誌、標線上要去做共用或區隔，這個為什麼是交通部主責？因為所有的道安規則裡面都是在交通部，所以它去頒……"],["徐委員欣瑩：交通部是執行單位？"],["吳署長欣修：對，也就是說這樣的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：還有法規，法規也是他們負責？"],["吳署長欣修：法規的部分，地方政府是執行單位，就是新竹市政府……"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是經費你們這邊有嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：改善的部分我們有，所以我才會說明……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們是改善，所以他們也有嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：有，他們也有，場域不同。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以這樣你好像很難控管嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：都市計畫區內的話，大概是我們。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我現在都講都市計畫區內啊！"],["吳署長欣修：對，所以人行道做好了，它到底是要採共用還是分隔，就是市政府要決定，因為標準都有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這個由市政府決定，沒有一個通用的法規或什麼的？"],["吳署長欣修：交通部頒訂的規則是共用跟分隔都可以，就是地方政府依照實際情形去決定是要共用還是分隔，所以可能是新竹市政府還沒有做好這樣的規定。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有啦，我是管新竹縣啦，沒有管到新竹市。"],["吳署長欣修：新竹縣的部分可能也還沒有做好這一塊分隔的標準。"],["徐委員欣瑩：新竹縣也很多地方沒有啊！"],["吳署長欣修：是，所以第一個，建人行道……"],["徐委員欣瑩：您的意思是這是縣市政府的責任啦！"],["吳署長欣修：應該這麼說，人行道的部分，經費我們來協助，但是做好了，到底是不是跟自行車道要分隔，還是地方政府要決定。"],["徐委員欣瑩：從頭到尾我問的，就是你們在審核經費、在給地方，當然地方都很希望你們給，但是民眾跟我們都希望你們給下去是看得到成果的，我們當然也不會覺得你給我不好，但是你在審核的時候怎麼樣把經費……包括它的執行成效，你們有在管嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：有，跟委員報告，我們大概每年逐季都會做一些檢討。當然……"],["徐委員欣瑩：每年檢討前一年的？前一年完成的？"],["吳署長欣修：對，尤其做好以後會跟前一年的……即做好執行一年以後，會跟沒有做完之前的交通事故做一個比較。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以你不會針對它做了有沒有符合需求加以檢討？"],["吳署長欣修：符合需求的部分，因為是地方政府提出這一些，但是剩下有一些就會變成民眾再來反映的時候，我們也會去做檢討，這也是我們為什麼推一個街道醫生的計畫，就是讓民眾提出他們的一些看法。"],["徐委員欣瑩：街道醫生是國土署提的嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：對，讓他們提出來有哪一些看法，我們會針對那樣提出來的路口看看要怎麼去改善，或是路段要怎麼去改善，有時候我們會接受民眾投票，我們每年都有讓民眾來投票，還有做街道醫生的檢視，這樣來協助大家看要怎麼樣改善。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝。"],["吳署長欣修：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐欣瑩委員的質詢。報告委員會，我們中午不休息，下一位請徐富癸委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-8","speakers":["牛煦庭","張宏陸","李柏毅","麥玉珍","張智倫","王美惠","黃捷","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","吳琪銘","洪孟楷","許宇甄","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李坤城","徐欣瑩","徐富癸","張啓楷","高金素梅","丁學忠"],"page_start":295,"meetingDate":["2025-04-07"],"gazette_id":"1143401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143401_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部部長、交通部就「市區道路品質改善計畫執行效益與檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143401_00011"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}